Episode 34 with Ken Davidoff

Reporter Ken Davidoff joins Mo to talk about the WBC, the MLB work stoppage, his new book 101 Lessons From The Dugout, and more!

Transcript

SPEAKER_03 0:06

MVP the Mo Vaughn Podcast, powered by Vaughn Sports Academy and Perfect Game Mo. Uh, I say it every episode, but we get the best guests around here. Greg does a great job booking us all the time. We got another really good one with a great book that just came out. Ken Davidoff joining the show today. Ken, how are you feeling, man? I'm great. Just thrilled to join you guys.

SPEAKER_00 0:26

Ken, how are you? Everything good, man? I'm good, Mo. It's great to see you. It's been a long time. I just heard you're in New York, so you're just you're just in the city. I'm in Manhattan, sir, in the Upper West Side.

SPEAKER_01 0:38

Just waiting to get that season started, aren't you?

SPEAKER_03 0:41

Oh yeah, what? Uh what nine days.

SPEAKER_01 0:44

Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 0:45

Yeah, yeah. How far do you guys go back? How long, how long have you uh been acquainted, known each other? How long is it go?

SPEAKER_05 0:52

I mean, I don't want to overstate this relationship, right? I just I you know I but I started covering the game in '95s, but I, you know, obviously. Couldn't cover Major League Baseball in that era without crossing the path of Mr. Moe Vaughn. And you know, uh whenever we did cross paths, it was it was a pleasure.

SPEAKER_01 1:09

I appreciate that. You know, um you gotta have, I've always said, you know, you can, you know, us uh the media guys can can still do a great job and still have a great relationship. So that's always that's always good, you know. Work is work, but people are people.

SPEAKER_03 1:25

Before we get to the book, uh how do you how have you seen the the relationship with media and athletes change over the years, Ken? Because I think, you know, I same, I was I started out, I wanted to be a newspaper writer. By the time I got out of college, they were gone, basically, right? There was there really jobs left. So I went into radio and I was a beat reporter for MBA, M O B, NFL. And even just in the time I did it, I've seen such a major shift in how the sports covered, the relationship between reporters and players. How have you seen that change in your time?

SPEAKER_05 1:53

Yeah, well, that's a great question and an easy answer. In my humble opinion, it's gotten much harder to establish those those bonds and the and that trust. And uh, as Mo said, like it was it was my job to be critical at times. But if I did it in a way that was, you know, let's say above the belt, where uh, you know, if I went to Mo, it's like, Mo man, I I I think you screwed up. Like I'm gonna have to write it this way. Mo might not have been happy with me, but hopefully there was some respect, you know, for that line of communication, and I could go to sleep that night as the journalist going, all right, well, this is gonna stir up some trouble, but I've already covered my bases by giving people a heads up. And because uh there's less access than there used to be, because frankly, you know, the players and the leagues have their own options to get their messages out, they don't need the mainstream media as much. Uh the strength of that relationship has dwindled dramatically.

SPEAKER_01 2:50

Yeah, but I listen, I I think you know, playing in in Boston, there was a clear understanding that the media was part of the process. It needed to be part of the process. I don't really know where that's changed. I don't know why I don't know if or what the added mindset is, but I hope the mindset should be if I'm not playing well, we're gonna write about it. If I'm playing well, we're gonna write about it. If I do something, you know, say something stupid, we gotta write about it. If I, you know, if if if I deserve something that is positive, we're gonna write about that. But I think sometimes today you look at look at us as athletes, we're trying to control the narrative, you know, throughout all points. And I think that's where the disconnect comes. Is I know, you know, I'm I'm you know, go on the road for two weeks, I'm you know, one for 17, you're gonna get booed when you get home going to Fenway Park. That's part of the process. And I don't think that that should change. And and you know, I even hear now in certain situations where there are actually human resource management teams that are with the clubs to take care of if a if a if a coach or a player or if a coach comes down on a player too hard or an article is written, man, we're we're we're we're we're not making strong strong people and strong men when we do that. That's just my opinion.

SPEAKER_04 4:23

Yeah, I would agree with that too.

SPEAKER_03 4:25

I think um, you know, I I do think that every kid grows up with a camera in their face now, right? Everybody's used to being on camera, everybody's used to being in content, let's say. But I do think that we're maybe overly sensitive as a society to any type of constructive criticism. How did you balance that in your career, Ken, of like, all right, I gotta write something here. I know they probably won't like it, I'm gonna go tell let them know. But you how did you know where that line was to where, hey, I'm I I know that at least I'm being fair about this?

SPEAKER_05 4:53

Yeah, well, uh another great question. I think that line, I developed instincts over time. You know, I covered the game full-time for 27 years, and you know, I still do a little bit freelance. And I, yeah, I think at first I I knew I made some mistakes. You know, I was either too hard or too easy on people, depending on the circumstance. But I think as I became a veteran writer, I just had kind of this internal meter. And a lot of it was, all right, well, what beyond just the performance on the field, how is the player dealing with that? You know, how is how is he talking about it? And I would talk to his teammates and his coaches and what are you seeing here with this guy? So I would do my own due diligence to figure out, all right, like how much rope does this person deserve? You know, how much is he taking accountability for his struggles, or how much is he not? Uh so that that kind of bottled throughout time.

SPEAKER_03 5:48

Mo, did you ever have teammates or people you played with that you were like, man, they just got a raw deal by the media? Or like maybe they were they got people were a little too light on him at times. I mean, you don't have to name any names, obviously, but there's other guys who are like, man, I just don't think that what how he's being covered is exactly how this guy should be covered.

SPEAKER_01 6:06

People always ask me, you know, like you know, what was the toughest media market? And I always say Boston. And the reason being is, you know, New York is is very, very tough. But you got two, you know, you got two newspapers combining, you know, competing for a story. So that kind of like nullifies some ins some information and you know it it it puts people in its proper position at times. But when I was playing with Boston, you had two newspapers, the Herald and uh I forgot what the other thing is. The Globe, yeah, yeah, yeah. And they would be in there competing for a story for one team. And a lot of people got a lot of raw deals because it was like in and we had 24, you know, man roster and we had uh 34 or 35 reporters, and everybody's looking for that conversation that they're they're trying to whisper about or whatever. And I think a lot of times things came out wrong. I feel a lot of times things were just said sometimes, just you know, as as as setups to create certain certain mantras and attitudes and you know, puts pushing the fans in certain directions. But damn it, it's part of it, man. Like it like you can't run from that. You're never going to outpace the media. And once you learn that, and I see I didn't learn it, I always thought that, you know, if I told the truth or if I came out with the information, man, I'm gonna be right and everybody's gonna understand what I was saying, and I'm gonna be the guy and I'm gonna set it straight. It never works. So, you know, if if I were you know in the information department as a as a as a club or an organization, the first thing I would tell the players is no matter what you say, you're never gonna be right. So you need to figure out what the words are that are gonna best benefit us, me, you know, your organization, yourself, your family, what you do, how you do it, and your team. And I think that's where the information is coming off wrong, in my opinion. You can't beat these guys. We're always gonna we're always gonna be the even listen listen, there's gonna be some type of impasse coming out. You know what's gonna happen? The owners who have in abundance of money were never gonna get called up like the players are because we're the ones that are up front. And and and and and trying to do the right thing and and getting things, you know, getting our points across where the owners are trying to close their books with, you know, and and and really don't want to tell any information. So it's like I just think the education has to be try to keep your mouth closed. Say what you need to say, put yourself in the proper perspective. Realize you're gonna take some from fire. You you're in the big leagues, you're in the middle leagues, you're making a whole hell a lot of money, you're gonna take some take some bullets, but ultimately just do the right thing and things will pass. I think that's the only way to go about it. And I wish I had done that. I said I wish I had done that. You know, you know, I I didn't do that. I was fighting the fight, man. I and I thought uh to this day I I thought I, you know, I you know uh I wish I had taken a different path.

SPEAKER_03 9:38

Do you think it was just youth for you, Mo? Like was that just you you had to grow into that mindset?

SPEAKER_01 9:44

I think I think Ken you could talk about this a little bit. I don't think people, I don't think us as athletes, there needs to be some type of course we go through that understands what it means to run a team, what it means uh to have a payroll, what it means to have expense, what it means to uh to to what what would you want what what do we want the fans to know? There's a big business that goes on underneath uh uh this whole game that we play, 162 games, and I think if the players really understood that and knew that, uh I think they would understand and and be able to to work around what goes on every day, you know, between the fans, the media, and the team. And it would be beneficial for you know for them to understand that.

SPEAKER_05 10:36

I agree, Mo. And I I do think in general, there's been a lot more uh efforts by the team to educate the players and and I know specifically with media relations, like that has really evolved over, you know, my 30 years around the game. Uh, but yeah, that would be interesting, though, to have like the owner come in or the team president, you know, spring spring training meeting and just kind of go over the things you're talking about. I think that'd be very beneficial.

SPEAKER_01 11:03

I mean, I I was very lucky afterlife, though, after I retired, I got into affordable housing in New York City, probably one of my greatest feats. And what I learned was you know, running a company, everybody gotta be on the same page. Can't have any outliers. We gotta be seeing speaking the same mantra. We gotta be all trying to, you know, pull, you know, pull together. And and, you know, you know, and when you don't, those people that are not, you know, tone the line, you move on. And I see, you know, I wish I had known that before, you know, I started playing it. I would I would have been a better, better player for the organization if I had known that.

SPEAKER_04 11:47

I'm glad uh Mo brought that up.

SPEAKER_03 11:49

Obviously, there's the the looming stoppage of play. Everybody knows it's it's about to happen. What are your, I mean, from a high level, what are your thoughts on that? And then I also would love to find out because I always thought I found it fascinating when I'd be doing talk radio, is how what high percentage of people immediately side with owners in these situations, right? It's it almost seems like people just that's where they gravitate towards first. Like why why do you think that is?

SPEAKER_05 12:14

Well, I think it's because um, well, you know, fans see these players and fans would say, I would do that for free, you know, and uh, you know, I how is how we supposed to? Yeah, right. Yeah, I wouldn't make an eight figures, you know. That's that's ridiculous. But of course they don't yeah, so but they don't see, they don't envy the owners in the same way, right? Like the owners sitting in a suite and uh, you know, uh shaking hands with ticket holders, whatever the owners do. They're like, I would do that for free, because they wouldn't, you know. But but I do think, well, that the feelings have evolved. I remember that I covered the last works, it was it wasn't a work stop, it was a lockout, and they ended in time in 2022. Uh, you know, they got the 162 games in. But it was amazing. I do think the uh the uh rise of social media has changed that calculation a little bit to where a lot of fans now side with the players, at least on social media, so much so that I I don't know, I was a little, I try to be even-handed in my coverage, and I got a lot of social media hate from people thinking I was siding with the owners. You know, and and trust me, if you had asked the union at that time, I'm sorry, if you had asked the owners at that time, they would not have said Ken is signing with the owners. Like I was just calling balls and strikes.

SPEAKER_03 13:29

Yeah, that's that's that's fascinating to me. And I really hope that we don't have an elongated stoppage here, but it feels like it's probably on on the horizon. And with how electric the WBC has just been, I mean, we're gonna talk about that in a little bit. And you know, baseball with the World Series last year in game seven, I mean, it feels like this is the worst time for this to happen.

SPEAKER_05 13:50

Yeah, and that's uh I'm sorry, I I'll I'll go. Uh that I I agree with you, Will. And um I actually on the flip side, I think that provides a little bit of hope. Like the the more uh moderate, sensible people in both rooms, in the ownership room and in the players' room. They're like, come on, like we gotta figure something out here. And I do another um issue that I think could help avoid that prolonged stoppage is the TV contracts. You know, MLB has lined up these TV contracts to all end after the 2028 season because Rob Manford wants to incorporate more local games into the packages, you know, and all that. Point being uh a prolonged 2027 work stop would would really hurt their negotiating position to get those deals done.

SPEAKER_04 14:38

That's a great point.

SPEAKER_03 14:40

Mo, uh if like you said, this feels like the worst time to have work stops. Obviously, there's never a good time for a work stoppage, right? Right. But I mean, that game last night, the WBC game, the U.S. and Dominican Republic, and even though it ended on a call that everybody's bitching about today, it's still captivating, right? Like baseball has the world right now. The entire world's attention right now. But it's it's crazy what's going on with this.

SPEAKER_01 15:04

You got I think I was reading something, they were saying 50 all-stars, four or five MB MVPs playing in this tournament. It's high leverage, super intense. And like, you know, Altani, you know, he's he's got his Japan, you know, Japan jersey on, but but you know who he is, you know what he did, and and you know, over here, you know, you got all the you know the Venezuela guys, you know, and then you see all of the Venezuela coaches and all of all of that, and then there's Pedro and and all the guys from from DR and they're playing, and then you got all the USA guys, and they're all battling for this, but they're all in our league. And it's like this is the heighten of everything. It's like right here, right now, people are doing it and playing. This is a this is a bad time. Let's just let's just be clear. I'm all for the players. I ain't never gonna change that. That's just the way that I am. It's been, you know, the unit's been great to me, great for me, great for my family. But man, it's so exciting right now. Um, it it really would be a shame if we got to go through this. So I'm I'm hoping they could get something done.

SPEAKER_03 16:15

Ken, do you think it's gonna come down to a salary cap? Is that really what this is? I or is that just the big talking point and that's gonna get thrown to the side once they get into the in the negotiation round?

SPEAKER_05 16:24

No, I I think uh that's that is the the$10 billion question, Will. And I it's it's it is a matter of who blinks because I think on both sides, well, like I think, you know, as much as the United Front as the players want to present, there are players who would be okay with the salary cap. You know, because they see what's going on. They see that top 1%, Otani, Juan Soto, Kyle Tucker getting these enormous salaries, but like that next tier, they're not like they're not. Like their salaries are not going up. Even someone like Pete Alonzo, like his salary for that, his skill set, that hasn't really changed in in 15 years. You know, like that's that's so uh that's not to say Pete doesn't want a salary. Pete wants a salary cap. I'm just giving one example. Uh so I do think there is some sentiment in the on the player side, like let's listen. And on the ownership side, yes, definitely a lot of the smaller market and mid-market owners want a salary cap. But I, you know, obviously the the larger market teams don't want that. And I think you'll find some sensible heads even in those medium and smaller markets. So it's just a matter, again, of can, you know, who's is it gonna be the hardliners leading the way or is it gonna be the the compromisers leading the way?

SPEAKER_03 17:38

Well, how did how did the salaries in a clubhouse affect dynamic in that front? Because right, I mean, I mean, obviously in this situation it's going to because people are gonna be looking for their own interests, even though there's a a larger collective good that they're all trying to battle, right? But in a clubhouse, uh is anybody paying attention to that stuff, or are you like, hey man, I that guy I don't know about that contract. That's a little crazy.

SPEAKER_01 18:01

No, I don't think anybody's you know, we've always got this back. You know, you don't talk about anybody's money or situation. Um and usually you know, guys are just in there in there playing. We're we're together too long to be to be looking at who's getting paid what. I think, you know, when you're in a baseball clubhouse for that long, especially if you're winning, you're just trying to get guys that are really that are that are all going in the same direction. Um I was I was lucky enough to make a lot of money playing ball, but I think all my teammates, at least I think so, were we always very, very positive with me and and you know, you know, Red Sox guys. Um uh yeah, so it's it's um I don't think it's something that that is is postered on the wall of what's what's happening. I think once you get in there, people are just playing the game.

SPEAKER_03 18:54

Ken, we're gonna talk about your book here in a moment, 101 Lessons from the Dugout. Um, but I got to ask you this question. This is the one thing I've been thinking about all week. Uh getting excited for you to jump on the podcast. Who was your favorite player that you ever got to chat with, cover? And who was the most difficult, and why was it Albert Bell?

SPEAKER_05 19:14

I don't got you know, it's funny. I didn't deal much with Albert, but I almost did because he almost became a Yankee after the 98 season. And that Mo, you were a free agent. That was your big free agent winter, right? After 98. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah, that was a big winter. Um, but uh gosh, I mean it's hard to narrow it down to one player. I'll I'll just name one who I just really love talking to is Hadeki Matsui of the Yankees. Wow. Uh because uh, you know, just such a kind person and someone so at peace with himself and with his following and his fame. You know, this was a guy, he had so many Japanese reporters just there to cover him, you know, just him. That was the story. So Yankees win, Matsui goes 0 for 2 with a walk. You know, that that was the story in Japan. Uh and uh he dealt with that so well and and he dealt with that whole contingency, and he told his teammates, you know, if any of them give you a problem, let me know. And he also took the time to get to know the American reporters. And yeah, Hideki did not speak great English, uh, but he had an interpreter uh with him, and he just made such an effort to converse with the American reporters and and you know, kind of get to know us. So that he's my favorite. Uh probably the most challenging. I I wish I had dealt with Albert just for the challenge of Albert. Uh, but uh Matt Harvey, uh, you know, the Met Spectrum, he comes to mind. Um, he was just tough. You know, he and he, you know, look, uh on one hand, you want the players to read what you write. Like you, you know, you want to be read by everyone, and you want to be accountable for what you write. But you know, on the other hand, it's like, God, he's he's reading everything. You know, I was I was critical of him because I did think he kind of put himself above the team at times. Uh even like when he was injured, recovering from Tommy John surgery, just kind of making a spectacle of himself, and then there's a whole thing where he almost didn't pitch in the postseason for the Mets in 2015. So uh yeah, Matt was tough. Uh, but again, I I I do kind of give him credit for for taking the interest in what I was writing and for standing up for himself.

SPEAKER_03 21:20

Mo, I think it's crazy. I was listening to this, uh, I was watching this clip from uh, I can't remember what, it was one of the NBA podcasts, and they were talking about Jeremy Lynn in New York and what a wild like scene that was. It was so it was such a crazy flash moment in sports, right? And all this international media come in, and it's all this pressure on this kid who came out of nowhere. But MLB is different in that every clubhouse has international reporters of some way, shape, or kind. There's guys who don't speak English with guys coming from other parts of the world. Mullie, as a player, is that difficult to navigate when you know those guys come in and they have a story and it's about one guy, but they're gonna come ask you about that guy because that's the only thing that their listener viewership cares about. That's what they're writing about.

SPEAKER_01 22:02

Again, you know, when when you're in a clubhouse to win, you know, and I never won a World Series. We've had some good years, but even in in in that time, you don't care if a guy can speak English. If he could he can he can field hit and throw, you know, you figure out way you figure out a way to communicate with him if he can help you win a baseball game. And I think you know, we're we're somewhat like, you know, I don't think we're we're not as tough as the hockey guys, but we s we have that kind of a mindset where we're all together and wow, whatever you can do, you know, to help us win a ball game, you know, we you know, I want you, I want you here. And that's that's I think pretty much through through you know, through how it works.

SPEAKER_03 22:45

And that's actually a great life lesson, right? Be able to accept anyone if you know if you're willing to work with someone, it doesn't matter if they're different from you. Look at that, that's a professional transition right there, Ken. Uh 101 lessons from the dugout. Uh book just came out. Um I got to scam, scan, scan through. There's some really cool stuff in there. Um, how did this come about and why did you decide to write this book?

SPEAKER_05 23:08

Uh so Will, uh, thank you for asking and thank you for reading. Uh, this came about uh because my literary agent, at least for Leshny, represents myself as well as my co-author for this book, whose name is Harley Rochbart, who I'm betting neither of you have ever heard of because he's never written a word about baseball before. Harley is a retired pediatrician and parenting expert. So, and he loves baseball and softball, coached his kids and his grandkids, and he came up with this idea of all the different ways you can learn about life through your adventures and experiences in baseball and softball. So Harley wrote the first draft, and he he wrote it from the perspective of someone who's dealt with young people's whole life and their parents and the coaches, and he said, Ken, why don't you come in, be my co-author, and kind of infuse the book with your knowledge of having the game at the highest le having covered the game at the highest level. So it was a nice blending of perspectives, and and I'm very pleased with it. Yeah, I mean, Will, you talked about uh the inclusivity there. So yeah, chapter seven, pinch hitters and pinch runners include others, speak up for friends. And that's, you know, when you're when you're in the starting lineup, but your friend isn't, you know, make look after your friend. You know, make sure, you know, they're you know, give them pep talk and get them, make sure they're getting in the game as a defensive replacement or pinch hitter or pinch runner. And same in any walk of life, right? Uh in school, you know, if someone doesn't get picked uh, you know, uh for a school play, you know, how have them help out, you know, with the scenery or whatever. So the idea of carrying these lessons uh throughout every aspect of your life.

SPEAKER_01 24:40

I've always said um our game is the essence of life. I've I've been saying that for for years now. The fact that, you know, you got this book is is just tremendous. I mean how hard we work every day to to to the mas to master something, but people don't understand you know how many times you do it. The law of averages. You know, baseball's you know, your greatness, the law of averages are very, very low. You know what I mean? And and this is the the the essence is you know how do you handle a strikeout, how do you handle an error, how do you pick up your teammates, how do you do all these uh things where negativity is at the is at the you know at the the pinnacle of the sport and how you absorb that and help others is what the game is all about, which is exactly what life is all about. I tell people all the time, like like I really don't understand racism, like I don't get it. I go, I'm in a clubhouse, I'm listening to country music, Spanish music, rock, hip hop, jazz, I know every music genre there is to know, you know, uh in in in in life. Why? Because those are the guys that you'll have to get along with. So what happens when we get out in the world? What's the problem? But I you know, baseball with it's with with with with the essence of life and and teaching, and then just the collaboration of all people in one place and knowing I know every country music there is to know. I've heard it once once or twice, and then and it, you know, I thought, you know, I even be humming along and my my my son's like, yo, how do you know that song? I said, because I've been in a clubhouse. One day, if we get there, you'll know what we're doing.

SPEAKER_03 26:28

That's all I mean, like you said, the microcosm of life, baseball, right? I mean, it's in Ken. I I I I've always had this theory that if you took everybody and made them go experience a different part of the country, a different culture, three and six months in their formative years, we'd have a much more inclusive society. And I'm sure you know, that's just one chapter in the book, right? But all those little lessons that you get in baseball can be trans translated over into everyday life. And I think we'd all be a little bit better off if we were following along with some of that stuff. If we're all humming along the country like Molly. Amen. Amen. So what is your uh so the the target audience for the book, if you were like, hey, this is exactly who I think this would be perfect for, who who's the pitch to?

SPEAKER_05 27:13

Well, uh well, we wrote this with the our target audience being uh young people ages 12 and up and their parents and coaches. And that's it's written in that language. There's a lot of references to school, a lot of references to your parents. Uh, but what I've really been pleased about is just the reaction it's getting from all demographics. I mean, I was I was uh blessed enough. So David Wright wrote the forward.

SPEAKER_01 27:36

I mean, Mo, were you his teammate briefly? I missed that guy, and I've heard nothing but great things about him. Okay. I I never got to play with him, but what a great guy I hear about.

SPEAKER_05 27:47

Yeah. And then so we have endorsements, blurbs from Reggie Jackson, Joe Girardi, Bernie Williams, and a few other folks. So just the reception I've gotten, even from those people, has been so heartening to me uh that I showed them, you know, back before we published, I showed uh each of them some of the writing. I said, What do you think? Would you be on board for this? And they all said yes. So that's been very rewarding.

SPEAKER_03 28:12

That's really cool.

SPEAKER_05 28:13

Very, very cool. 101 lessons from the dugout, um, available everywhere, right? I mean, available at your bookstore near you, uh, Amazon, and then the publishing website is Bloomsbury.

SPEAKER_03 28:24

Fantastic. Um, all right, so let's jump into the WBC last night. I got I gotta get your take here, both of you guys. What a roller coaster week for USA, right? I mean, from the DeRosa, I don't know if you want to call it a flub in the media, or if you really did not know that that his team was not in the semis yet, leaving control out of their own hands to that win last night, which was as gutsy and as ballsy and as as clutch as you could possibly get. Ken, if you're covering that team, I mean, you you're feeling the ups and downs of it too. Just imagine going through that week with I'll tell you what, Will.

SPEAKER_05 28:59

I mean, the what transpired in that first round was insane. I mean, I and I I've I knew D-Row, so I wrote for the Bergen County record in New Jersey, which is where Mark grew up. So he I just missed him. Like I was covering high school sports. He had just graduated high school, but he was the quarterback for the University of Pennsylvania. He was such a big deal for our readership that every pen home game, we would send a reporter down to Philly to cover the game just for him. It was like Matsui, you know, so we covered it just just for him. So he, but man, oh man, I mean, to say we punched our ticket and then to talk about the partying the night before, and then to the rest not play all those guys.

SPEAKER_00 29:39

Sitting guys, yeah, it's crazy.

SPEAKER_05 29:41

Warming up Kershaw. So uh it seemed like more than misspeaking. It seemed like he didn't realize that, you know. So yeah, I would have just been digging, digging, digging on that. And now, you know, and then to play the mighty DR and you know how well they had been playing, and then yeah, to have that thrilling win last night, my God. Exactly. A roller coaster ride and so much to to uh write about.

unknown 30:04

Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 30:05

Mo, what'd you think of what'd you think of Skeens last night? I thought that was as gutsy of a and you know, it looked like he didn't want to come out. He was he was ready to keep going. You know, I'm sure the Pirates organization was like getting the hell out of that game, but uh Skeens bang, I mean, besides that early home run, didn't get rattled. He pretty much shoved yesterday.

SPEAKER_01 30:22

I just saw the best out there competing at such a high level, man. And you know, Paul was he was firing. It was you could you could you could see that USA coming out of their coming out of their blood, their the blood, sweat, and tears trying to trying to do what they gotta do. We gotta win this thing. Like for for for De Rosa, you know, you gotta win. You gotta win tomorrow. So this thing just becomes like a a a a a a flub as you as you would say. And and you know, we miss well I I don't care what it's if we win this tomorrow, then everything everything's off the hook and we can move on. You know, and that's you know, that's the kind of things that I think about. Like, man, you don't want to be remembered, you know, in that situation. But damn it, what a what a what a performance. We got guys coming out of bullpen. I wouldn't want to face any of them guys. They were throwing petroleum with breaking balls, fork balls, just you know, I'm calling the pitches sitting there like wow. And I actually think that that, you know, that fastball, they could talk about, hey, you know, it was a ball that pitched game. I think he was throwing so hard that when the when the umpire saw it up, he just didn't realize how hard it was gonna break. You know, I wouldn't have been able to take that pitch. I would have been swinging at that pitch. You know, a guy throwing 100 miles an hour, you know. So uh, so whatever. That's our win. We're one, we're one win away. And and you know, let's let's let's finish the job, is is is what I'm hoping for.

SPEAKER_03 31:55

Ken, I'm glad Mo brought that up of playing to kind of make that the mistake Zero made a footnote in what could be an amazing storyline. Because uh uh if you think about it the other way, right? Think about if they didn't win that game. What has been what has been the knock on USA is we haven't taken this serious enough, right? The Pacific countries take it seriously, the Latin countries take it seriously. The USA is just kind of there. People say some of the stuff like the Aaron Judge speech, some of it's performative, like they're not really into it. I thought it was really cool, and I agree with you, Mo. I think they were trying to win that to show, hey, we want we want that to be the footnote. That is not gonna define what we are as a team here. And it's not gonna define more.

SPEAKER_01 32:37

You hear so much great stuff about him as a guy and as a dude as a baseball game, as a baseball game. I just don't want that to him to be defined from that.

SPEAKER_05 32:46

No, uh, and he would have been, though. Yeah, you know, if if if if uh Italy hadn't done them the favor of beating Mexico and they had been eliminated, that would have haunted Mark DeRosa for the rest of his life. Yeah, very long time.

SPEAKER_03 33:01

What is it? Did you think it was a controversial choice to make him the manager of this team? I know a lot of people were like, I mean, he's on MLB network, why should he be the manager of this team? Do you think it was controversial?

SPEAKER_05 33:10

Yeah, I look, I mean, he managed it last time, too, and they got to the finals, but it's I mean, you guys, you you nailed it well. There's always been this uh, I don't know if cloud is the word, but something around Team USA that they're not taking it as seriously enough, uh as seriously as these other countries are. So, yeah, I mean they but like Team USA, they've tried everything. You know, they tried um I covered the very first one when the manager was Buck Martinez, and you know, Buck was essentially a broadcaster. You know, he managed the Blue Jays for I think a a year and a half or something. Uh and then it was David Johnson, may he rest in peace. Then it was Joe Torrey. Leland was the one who won the whole thing, and then uh D-Row the last two times. So they've kind of gone all over the map. You know, they've they've tried the grizzled veterans and the you know, and and D-Row, I think they just thought it'd be high energy and probably recruit some guys, which he did this time. But yeah, I could understand, you know, you could certainly uh say try to pick someone who's actually done more managing.

SPEAKER_03 34:11

I think what's cool is the storyline now is isn't that. The storyline now is how healthy is the game of baseball, not just from a USA standpoint, but from an overall standpoint, when you have these young stars, I mean, look at the guys who hit the home runs last night. You know, Roman Anthony, Gunner Henner. I mean, these are young Bucks on the USA squad. You look at the guys that are hitting home runs for DR throughout the tournament. I mean, yes, there's established stars there too, but there's some names just seemingly like we're gonna be talking about these guys for a long time to come.

SPEAKER_01 34:37

Yeah, they still it's beautiful. It's beautiful, like, you know, you know, you know, my Red Sox game, Roman you know, Roman Roman Anthony, you know, Garnison, there's you know, all these guys uh coming up, even the guys on the Italian team that are that are somewhere prospects with you know, prospects coming up and um you know Jack Caglion, all those, you know, all of that. Those so the game is is is super healthy. Plus, you know, on the international side in South America with all those players, you know, the game is super, super healthy. And that's why, you know, the three of us sitting there thinking about some type of stoppage would be devastating due to the fact that what's happening right now and what we see. And I'll always maintain this, you know, especially this year. I know we were we're we're fighting tooth and nails for the for the names on our jerseys, but all those players, they know each other, they're all friends, and they play in the MLB, and I think that's what the greatness of it is.

SPEAKER_03 35:34

Ken, uh uh we talk about these big names, but I gotta I gotta tell one of my favorite things about the WBC is you just get these random ass players that get put in the game against a superstar, right? Like, and they're you know, some of them are some of them aren't even in you know uh in major leagues yet. And one of my favorites, just because I'm here in Cleveland, is uh Tugboat Wilkinson. I don't know if you know, he played for Team Canada through a couple innings, and he just throws junk, right? It's just junk out. It's crazy stuff he's throwing out there. But to watch that guy go up against that lineup, or Contreras is a kid, 17-year-old coming out throwing 100 miles, what we talked about in the last time. I think that's one of the most fascinating things about this. And I saw a funny tweet the other day that was like, oh, uh, this is so-and-so. He plays for Team Italy. He's uh truck driver most of the time, and he's about to face off against Shohei Otani. You know what I mean? Like it's it's just wild that some of these storylines that get put in front of you.

SPEAKER_05 36:23

Yeah, it's funny. I have to admit, well, I I was slow to warm to the WBC. I I admired its ambition, but I thought it was really taking away from Major League Baseball's core product of you know of the championship season and you know, really cheapening spring training, and then when guys get hurt, it impacts the championship season. Uh but what the one I and I look, I tip of the cap to it, it has defeated its critics with the rosters this year, as Mo said, all these all-stars MVPs. Uh, but the one thing I did love from the very beginning was exactly what you're talking about, Well, was just these these random guys. Or I also like the guys who have been retired for years and just popped up to play in the tournament. I remember, you know, Bernie Williams uh played in the 09 WBC for a team Puerto Rico when he hadn't played in the majors in 06.

SPEAKER_03 37:11

Yeah, that's crazy. Crazy. Mo, I and Mo, I don't know if you do feel it. Um Mo you brought up in the last podcast about possibly doing this at the all-star break instead of at the beginning of the season. I think there's something to that, Mo. I I really like that idea, and I can't tell you how many people talked to me this last week about you bringing that up, and they're like, I love it. I think that's what they should do.

SPEAKER_01 37:30

I was just saying that you know, I one of my one of my GM friends that didn't come from me was saying extend the extend the all-star game, all-star week to two weeks. Now everybody's healthy, nobody's worrying about pitch counts. You can he and he was like, Man, we could use the two weeks off on our side, and now you can go out there and go at it the way that you want to go at it. And I think listen, you need a Paul Schemes to go home and say, Man, that was electric. We need to do that game. Do that again. We need Paul School ball to go home and say, hey, this was good. We got we gotta really make this happen. You need that. And I think once you see, I wore I wore a USA jersey in college just for a tiny you know, I went to Taipei Type Taiwan. There was nothing better than that. To be on this level, it's gotta be energizing. Like, it's got to be something that you go, man, if I'm if I'm willing and able and healthy, I want to do this again, and we should try to really get our best. So hopefully it works out like that.

SPEAKER_03 38:37

Ken, any more books in your future? Are you are you what do you what do you got in the words? Not to put the pressure on you. I'm sure that's true. Sound like your publisher.

SPEAKER_05 38:46

Uh I have a few ideas and I've just had some thoughts with a few people, but honestly, well, I'm still in the uh the book tour phase for for this one. It's my first one, and I'm just very uh happy to have it out. So uh, you know, we'll let we'll see where this one takes me.

SPEAKER_03 39:00

101 lessons from the dugout. Uh Ken Davidoff and Harley. How do you say the last name? Rote Rote Bart.

SPEAKER_05 39:06

Not Rothbart sounds too much like Ratfart, so Roadbart.

SPEAKER_03 39:11

I'm sure he got a lot of that in uh elementary school. Yes, he did. Um go check it out. Great book. Uh Ken, thank you so much for jumping on. We appreciate it. Great conversation. And uh I'm like, I'm with you. I wasn't I thought the WBC was goofy when they first announced this thing. I thought nobody would ever buy into it, and I couldn't could not have been more wrong about something. I am I was so locked in last night in that game. Everybody I knew was locked into that game. It's it's a fun time to be a baseball fan.

SPEAKER_00 39:36

Yeah, man. You too, Mo. Thanks to both of you for your team and for the platform.

SPEAKER_01 39:43

And anything you need, we're here to help you. I've loved to be I love the WBC. You know, I got tickets, you know, oh, and at Marlin Stadium, so you know, I've been sending everybody. I've I've haven't been feeling good, so I haven't been going. Um, but I want to make it there, you know, tomorrow n tomorrow night. But this thing is is is exceptional. And I think we should all be pushing to get our best guys out there in the right situations and and and and wear that USA with pride and try to bring it home all the time. But great book. Good luck to you. You need us, you need me, just let me know when I'm here for you.

SPEAKER_05 40:17

You're the best, Mo. Thank you. And well, thanks for taking your time and a pleasure meeting you.

SPEAKER_03 40:22

Yeah, appreciate it, Kevin. Good luck with everybody.