Episode 40 - The Skubal Scope, Remembering Bobby Cox, and Buy or Sell AL Edition

Tarik Skubal got a new type of scope and it's being sold HARD. Mo remembers Bobby Cox and possibly the greatest generation of managers. Also, Mo plays "Buy or Sell" with some of the AL's surprising storylines. 

Transcript

SPEAKER_01 0:01

MVP, the Mo Vaughn Podcast, presented by Perfect Game and Vaughn Sports Academy. Wilbridge here with the man himself, Mo Vaughn. Mo, you're fresh off the water today, man. How are you feeling?

SPEAKER_00 0:12

Oh man, probably like the first time out in 15 months. I did a whole refit. And then, you know, getting the boat back together, it's it's it's not easy. So I got a chance to get out today. I just was kind of like cruising around, looking at systems, making sure pumps and everything's running. But that couple hours out is just it's refreshing, man. It's refreshing. You just said it. You think everybody, you know, should be, you know, the human body should be by water. Yep. And I and I and I truly believe that it's it's a tremendous reset right away, daily. As soon as you know, as soon as you start going down the inlet and you're going out and you're looking in the open water, and you're like, you know, the waves start coming up, you're pressing down on the throttle, and you're like, man, this you know, the sea was sea air is hitting you. It's just nothing like it. It's nothing like it. 100%.

SPEAKER_01 1:08

You get down here.

SPEAKER_00 1:09

We're going.

SPEAKER_01 1:09

I know. Oh, trust me. I'm I was planning on making you take me out. You didn't invite me there. Um, we got a lot to talk about today. We got to talk about uh Bobby Cox at some point. We want to kind of reminisce a little bit there. I found a really cool story. I'm sure you got some thoughts. And kind of going through that era of managers in the 80s, 90s, early 2000s, that we'll probably never see anything like that again. Um, we got I want I got some buyer sells free. We're at the quarter point of the season. I got a couple good ones. I want to see how you feel about them, and I'm gonna have you fix a player. You understand what I mean when we get there? But I think you're gonna be able to fix somebody on the pod today, um, which I'm excited for all that. But I where I want to start out is uh the big news of the week was uh, you know, Target School, uh having the he had a uh a floating body in his elbow. Um it was what just one bone chip to the point where he could like actually move it around and get into a comfortable spot and throw, which is kind of crazy. But they decided to go in, and people probably heard of this by now, but he had this now minimally invasive surgery. And uh it's apparently it's a it's a it looks like a um like a needle on an injection, and there's a 120-degree camera on the end of it. Better camera than I have for this podcast, probably 100% of this case. And and they're able to go in there and take a good look around and then and go directly to the spot it's at, so you're not tearing up all the tissue, and it's less recovery time. And less recovery time and less tearing up the tissue means less the pitcher having to ramp his arm back up. So I just want to start off with your thoughts right out of the gate of like we always knew that at some point all these, you know, guys start getting Tommy John surgery more because they got stronger. Um, there's all these different medical procedures that are helping athletes now, but this feels like something to me, Mo, that could be pretty monumental in a couple of years where everybody's doing it. It won't be for everything, but man, this could change the trajectory of a lot of injuries during the season.

SPEAKER_00 2:56

Listen, it's just like the knee with the, you know, my dad always, my dad's 94 years old, played football, you know, taxi leagues, you know, minor leagues, Baltimore Colts. You know, he's got a zipper on his knee right now. You know, look at look at the orthoscopic surgery, how far it's come right now. I remember I had I had three or four during my career. I was able to come back like right after the all-star break. I go in there, you know, go in there and get that thing done. And now with the value of pitching and the numbers and the and the amount of money being spent on these guys. And listen, we just you and I just talked, you know, Scott Boris is talking about, you know, it's less evasive, and you know, it's great. We're I'm so happy for the technology, but also, you know, you know, he's got an agenda talking about this whole thing. So um, but yeah, you know, I think you know, school ball is gonna be a free agent, correct? Coming up, coming up, yeah.

SPEAKER_01 3:50

Yeah, remember they tried to go, they tried to get it get to a number and they couldn't. And now all of a sudden that's why you gotta feel like, I mean, it's A, it's good for school to come back, right? But B, this little press tour from Scott Boris feels like it's deeper than just, hey, this is a fun new procedure.

SPEAKER_00 4:04

Of course. I mean, listen, we all are trying to position our ourselves, and if you know, if I'm an agent, position the player. Um, but right now it looks like he's gonna have an opportunity to get back on the field and be at full strength. He'll have a chance to, he'll have he'll have a chance to show, you know, how he's feeling anyway. But I'm all for I'm all for, you know, doctors, and I'm all for, you know, people coming up with bigger and better and faster things to for you know, for health and medicine and how that works. It's all great for the players and getting back on the field because that's where you want to be, is on the field.

SPEAKER_01 4:44

I mean, look at the guys recovering from Achilles over in the NBA now in less than a year. That's crazy. I mean, that's unheard of a couple years ago. Now they've been back in like nine months. The Taison Tatum was like nine months on the Celtics. He was back on the court in the playoffs. That's nuts.

SPEAKER_00 4:57

I know. And and and playing well. That was another thing my dad did. I remember I was a kid. We were out there playing tennis in all Connecticut, um, across the street at Westrocks Middle School. He's running around and pow! Blew his blew his, you know, popped his Achilles. And I remember him, I can tell you a picture to the day in the hospital with his leg up and a cast like up over his knee. And just to see where, where, where that has come, how far that medicine is great, man. Medicine is is important. Medicine is is just you know, helping the athletes get get back to being on the court is where they need to be most successful, helping their team. So I'm all for that.

SPEAKER_01 5:41

Yeah, and to circle back to the Scott Boris point you made, there is always an angle, and I'm gonna give you my theory, Mo. You tell me if this is crazy or not. This is my theory. I don't know that Scott Boris goes on his uh, you know, little PR tour, which I heard him on the baseball tonight podcast, and I know he's did some other places too. Um, he's trying to get it dubbed the Scoobyl Scope, even though this thing's been around since 2019, very Scott Boris of them. But I think I here's what I think. The first major, and it was decently major, we probably won't touch much on it today because it's just a defensive catcher, but a major trade has already happened in Major League Baseball. We've already seen managers fired. I think what we're seeing is something we talked about an episode or two ago where things are turning more in the NFL, where teams aren't gonna have the patience anymore and they're moving quicker. I think this was him telling the entire league, hey, don't go out there and make that trade just yet, because maybe it's for my guy if we feel like we're not gonna get somewhere over Detroit. Or at the very least, saying, hey, I we have all these different suitors who would love to have school now. So don't go out there and trade for something that might get in the way of you having my guy this offseason if he's not gonna stay in Detroit. Am I crazy for that?

SPEAKER_00 6:42

You're you're absolutely right. Um, of course, it's all posturing. And you know, Scott Boris has lived in the life of being in position A. That's how he operates at the at the highest level where he's has this, you know, he's got the strong, he's got the upper hand. And if he can if he can change the narrative to more positive for school ball, why wouldn't he do it? You know, he listened, like you said, he's dubbing this to school surgery when this thing's already been out. Um but he's able to command what he has been able to command because his players always come up when they're at the strongest, and that's what he's trying to do now.

SPEAKER_01 7:26

I mean, this actually bodes pretty well for the Tigers because they are in some trouble. And we're gonna talk a little bit more about them later when we do the uh the buy or sell, but they have not started out the way they wanted. Um, now you have suspensions on the pitching staff because signs are getting ripped from the uh guys in the bases, you know, grips are getting ripped from them, and you know, he uh they got suspensions, they got injuries, they're not playing well, they're not hitting the way everybody thought they might. AL Central's there for the taking still, but this is if you're a Detroit Tigers fan in the front office and they tell you, hey, it's not gonna be three months, it might be six weeks, you gotta feel pretty damn good about that right now.

SPEAKER_00 8:01

Listen, it's hard to come back. They were a few outs away from moving on. They didn't. Um same thing with Toronto, like trying to get back up on that horse and regain that that inner that inner feeling within that we're gonna win this game. We know, we know how to do it. It's hard to repeat when you lose, you know, something like that. And now, this may be a shot in the arm. They may now turn and say, okay, six weeks, school back. We're gonna do some things, we'll get a shot in the arm, sort of like what the Phillies just did with Wheeler. Shot in the arm right there. All of a sudden, bang, you know, our number one guy comes back, and then things start moving. So we'll see. We'll talk about it.

SPEAKER_01 8:49

Um, big news this week. There was sad news in the world of baseball. I mean, one of the absolute legends of the game. Um, you know, Bobby Cox, uh 84 years old, passes away. I love it. Everywhere you saw, this is one of my favorite things ever. And I know Bobby, I mean, I don't know Bobby at all, but just looking at his demeanor, I think he would appreciate that. Everywhere there was always an adjective next to his name as a fiery manager, uh, manager with bravado, all these different things of him going like he was he was out there getting an umpire's asses. That's what he was doing. He was, he was, he had no problem voicing his opinion, being a strong personality, and he really was one of the defining personalities of an era in baseball.

SPEAKER_00 9:27

Yeah, you can tell. I remember we used to go in Atlanta in the old stadium, and it said there was a big billboard, and it said Eisenhower, Patton, Cox, and it was a big billboard. I was like, wow, this guy, we're we're we're in this guy's realm. And I always say two things, and I talk about this all the time. Braves are one of the best organizations in developing talent. Um, when those guys come up to play, they're ready to play. Like the, you know, the Chipper Jones is these guys are ready to play as rookies. Someone had to be leaking that charge. He was running, he was at the top of the food chain as the manager, you know, in of the organization. All of that permeated down to the with the there was a certain way. I remember when Jimmy Williams came over, he was he was a Bobby Cox man. We all had to work our certain way as uniform for the Red Sox. There was a certain way they did things. He was the architect of all of that. And then you take you just you just look at Smaltz, Glavin, Maddox, Avery, Jones, just the Lempke who I play with, great dude. Like Lemke's a real, like he's a real dude. Um how they speak about him as a as a man and as a manager. Every team, he's one of the one of the best managers, I think, that was a player's manager, but you didn't mess with Bobby Cox. There were certain things that you did and you knew to do them. It was passed down and you played the Braves' way. Some people can just be players managers and they lose control. Others can be players managers and still remain the core remain control and walk the line and toe the line. And I think he was definitely one of those guys. Great, great, great guy, all those, all those pennants in a row, 95 uh, you know, world champions. But you just see the admiration from his players, and you know what kind of dude he was. Great guy.

SPEAKER_01 11:36

I got two stories. I think you're gonna love mo that illustrate both those things you just talked about. One was, I think it was also on the baseball night podcast they were talking about um Bobby Cox, and that the front office kind of poo-pooed um an opportunity or waved their hand an opportunity to get Greg Maddox. And then they they went directly to Bobby Cox and said, Hey man, we actually he, because the Yankees were hot on his trail, said, Hey, we'd love to, you know, this is kind of, we think this is a better fit for him. And within 24 hours, Bobby Cox got that trade done. He was like, No, no, no, we're not letting him go to New York. We want him here. And look how great that turned out, right? Uh, the second one, and this is perfectly illustrates your point of like he was a player's manager. And maybe you only remember him yelling and screaming. And if you weren't in Atlanta, you didn't know this type of behind-the-scenes stuff. But I love this story. So apparently in spring training one year, uh Jeff Frank Corr was offered uh by Tiger Woods to go play around of golf with him. He said, Hey, you want to go play golf with me tomorrow? And Jeff Frank Corps said, Oh man, I'd love to, but I gotta spring training game tomorrow. I can't, I think the tea time was at two and the game was at one. So he said, Yeah, I appreciate the offer, but I'm not gonna go. So he shows up to the ballpark and everyone's warming up, and Bobby Cox waves Frank Corr over to the dugout and he said, Hey, you had a chance to play golf with Tiger Woods today? And he's like, Yeah, but you know, we had the game today and stuff. He said, No, no, no. After your first at bat, come up a little lane. I'm gonna send you into the clubhouse, you get your crap on, you drive over to the course, and you go play with Tiger Woods. So he he he hit it, ran past first, faked an ankle injury, went into the dugout, got on his golf stuff, and by the time he got to the first tee, Tiger had just teed off and was going down the fairway. He was able to play the round 27 holes with Tiger Woods that day. That's a great Bobby Cox story. That is awesome.

SPEAKER_00 13:22

Like, wow. But you know what? That's what that's what those guys do. That's what those guys are. Like people, and those guys would run through from a wall from you know through a wall for them. Yeah, but that's what guys like that, managers like that, that's how you get through the through to your players. And I'm sure whenever Frank Carr saw him at any time, he needed something, Frank Garrett went to bat for him as as a as a manager. But that that story's awesome, right? We can stop right there. That's awesome.

SPEAKER_01 13:57

That's so cool, right? Who is the do you ever have a manager coming up that like was able to tow the line as well as that? Because you're right, a lot of the managers, and that's kind of how firings usually go, right? You have a guy who's a really a player's manager and and kind of lets the clubhouse be the personality they want to be. And then when things start to go south and the and the organization fires them, where do they usually go? Exact opposite way. Somebody came was gonna come in and crack the whip. Did you ever have a guy who walked the line that well?

SPEAKER_00 14:23

I thought Kevin Kennedy, when I was there, you know, I I attribute my my best years as a pro or 95 and 96. He brought Jose's Conseco over, and I, and I, you know, he came to me and goes, You're gonna you're gonna lead this team, you're gonna hit third. Jose's gonna get fourth, and you're gonna know it's coming. I just need you to go out and play hard. Don't worry about all these other things. And he would come to me at times and you know, it was just it was just a great in in Boston there really needed to be structure as a manager because you know, being there, there were so many uh other outside forces that were if you if you didn't stay together, you could be dismantled from from you know from the outside forces. But he was just very, very strong. He was big, you know. Kevin, Kevin's 6'4, you know, he was good, 230 pounds, he was had a presence. Um but I thought he told the line very, very I've heard stories of Conseco and Clemens and guys running up golfing and him taking care of things through the media and and doing stuff, but he expected you to play and come play hard. And he didn't, I remember that year we went from last from last year, the year before we were in last place to first place, and that was all because of his mind. So so for me, it was Kevin Kennedy. I had some good, I had some good leaders. Jimmy Williams is Jimmy Williams is a great leader, but for me personally, Kevin Kennedy really uh told the line and pushed it, pushed the buttons, you know, the way that that really helped me.

SPEAKER_01 16:10

I'm gonna read off this list of managers from the 80s, 90s, early 2000s. Uh Bobby Cox, Joe Torrey, Tony LaRussa, um Dusty Baker, Lou Pinella, Jim Leland, uh Jim Bochi, Time of the Sorda. I mean, this this is Bobby, you know, this is a who's who murderous row of managers that manage at the exact same time or at least overlapped quite a bit throughout that entire list. And I'm not sure we're ever gonna see, and who knows, this could just be you know that um recency bias, but I'm not sure we're ever gonna see another crop of managers like them through Major League Baseball. What do you think?

SPEAKER_00 16:48

When you name those names, the one word that comes up from me is communication. Everybody on that list, you knew where you stood. I played against some of them. Um, I would have wished I would have played for one of I wished I would have played for Dusty Baker because I just hear so many good things about his communication. You knew where you stood, you know, and then he knew what to look for, how to deploy you. That's what a great manager is, is is they know how to deploy you. Then you look, you know, Dusty Baker, you know, you could you could see it all over his face. Then you got Toto Tony LaRusso. He was stone faced. He was, he was, but he put together a lineup where those first two guys were like table setters, and then he would figure out who needed to be batting third, who needed to be batting fourth, how do I generate runs? Everybody understood and knew their role. Joe Torre, how do you you know, how do you, you know, yes, you gotta you gotta boatload a top that 96 team, Yankees probably top five best team all over, best, you know, best team ever. But as the manager, how do you get those personalities all to work together? They came to work like business. Like I never seen a team step on the field and knew they were gonna win. Like I like when I was facing those Yankee teams from 94, 95, 96, 97. I never seen they every day they they came to work to win. Everybody knew what they had to do. Um, just think and just think about also the structure of the teams at that time were I need defense in the middle of the field. Walt Weiss, Gallego, Tony Phillips. You look at you look at, you know, all the other teams, good catching, good middle infielders, great center fielder, corner guys that played well hit-home runs. Left fielder, right fielder, third base, first base, they were the boppers. They they drove in the runs. All these other guys played defense, the catching position. Terry Spine, Steinbeck, Mike Sosha, um uh Buster Palsey, uh who else? Posada, um, who who else can I name? Just it was a structure. And you knew everybody knew and did their job. You had to had to beat them. They didn't make mistakes. That was all in that group. Bochi. Bochi was a was a was a backup guy, but what a great, what a great, you know, communicator. And he had it, he set a great company you know, you hear from Trevor Hoffman, the, you know, the type of clubhouse that he set, you know, over there, you know, um, when he was with the Padres, and then brought all that structure over to San Fran and won a bunch of games and some World Series. But all these guys were structure-based, baseball guys. They bunted when they were supposed to bunt, they hit and run when they were supposed to hit and run. They they fielded a bunt play when they needed to get outs, and and they commit and they knew how to run the game and deploy their players. And you're right, I'm just not so sure we're gonna see that uh anymore. And it might not be allowed anymore. I mean, listen, I understand, and you know I understand the life, the way the game is played, things change, analytics is a part of our game, I get it. But all in all, look at look at why, look at the Phillies. Who's running that team? Matting Lee, a guy that played the game, understands the game, can deploy mentally and physically the guys to be successful. And I hope there are a bunch of baseball guys that come back because that's what the game needs to get back to. It's not all about numbers and velocity and strength. Somebody's got to know how to execute and play. And those guys really did it, and they knew how to deploy their players to win.

SPEAKER_01 21:13

And two of the guys right now that are still contemporaries, at least for the time being, that are still out there, Terry Francone and Dave Roberts, right? Two guys that you fit right into the mold of what you're talking about, that can take the analytics, apply it to the game, use their gut in the right position, have a structure to it, able to control a big personalities inside of a clubhouse, but also make the rookies that are coming up feel like they're welcome as well. I'm just a little worried with the top-down, follow what the data says and what the GMs, how he exact players he gave you, that's becoming more of an edict around the league. And the fact that there's so many young guys getting brought up, and then the patience is wearing so thin with whether it's the manager or guys on the field that we may not even give guys a chance to develop into managers of this ilk. You know what I mean? That's the warrior for me.

SPEAKER_00 22:02

You know what, Will? You know, I love this game, but I love it more and more as I get older. The more I'm involved with it, I love it. It's a great game. But the game since Abner Doubleday hasn't changed. I tell people, it's not like a, you know, it's not like a, you know, where all of a sudden, you know, and the NFL, they might go to three, you know, three tight ends, three tight ends is in, is in now. No, we're gonna go to three wide receivers. Oh, no, everybody's gonna play, you know, two back, two wide receiver set. And and they got different playbooks. Or the NBA, oh, you know, we're gonna, you know, we're gonna throw it down to Kareem. Now that's changed. We got guys like Webb and Yama. You know, now we're gonna have one big guy in the middle, we're gonna shoot it to the edges, and we're gonna shoot. Baseball is still the same the way it was presented. You have to be able to make the root team play, figure out what to do in scoring position it, drive runs in in the playoffs to win. Guys got to throw strikes. It's not about spin, rating, and velocity. Throw the goddamn ball over the plate and let the guys catch it. People in, you know, defenders got to defend. Stop with all of this craziness. Get back to what was successful, go back to Bochi, go back to, you know, um La Sorda. Go back to La Russa, go back to Baker, go back to Tory, go back to go look at Mattingley, go look at, you know, Sparky Anderson. How did they win? They won the the the the the the baseball way. Why does that have to change? Who said it had to change or why? And we're messing people up. We're not giving, we're not giving them the opportunity to be successful the way that they're doing. And I hope, I just hope that someone sees the light and realizes that the more baseball people in the because we have information, I have information at home plate that if you haven't stood at home plate, you don't understand. You know, if you haven't stood at home plate in the three, four, five spot in in critical conditions, in in leverage, high-lever situations, it's hard to explain and know what I know. And you can't get that from data. That comes from talking and information. And we need to get more guys that can do that back into baseball.

SPEAKER_01 24:30

Yeah, you know, it's cool, and this is um similar. I was just listening to a couple interviews with Connor Griffin, just because he's starting to really come on now, right? He started off a little bit slow, a lot of hype around, but man, since I think it was like April 23rd, he's just tearing the cover off the ball. He's been one of the better shortstops in the game. And I was listening to him in an interview when he was talking about how he just kind of, he's like, the biggest thing was just seeing all these guys around me that can pick their brain now. He's like, and these guys were out of reach before, right? I was coming up, I was either in high school or I was coming the brief time he was in the minors, and he's like, now all of a sudden I just got all these different guys I can talk to have been through it before. And that's what you want from your young guys, right? Because this is a wealth of knowledge. Like you said, you can't explain it till you've been in it. And even then it's pretty hard to explain.

SPEAKER_00 25:10

Exactly. Like, you know, you you it and I listen, I'm not saying that to discredit anyone, but our game is different. We don't make up a playbook, you know. We can't become a mad scientist in this game. The experiences are the information, and you need to have people that have the experience that can talk. And I can, and I and I'm gonna tell you something. To me, the Phillies, when you hit, you're gonna win. When you hit, you're gonna play better defense. When you hit, you're gonna dive, you're gonna hustle, you're gonna do all these different things. They gotta they look like the guy there with that's in the seat in the seat now is going, I don't know what everybody's talking about. But 2-0, I think you need to be looking for a fastball and don't miss it. And 3-1, we're gonna look hard. We're down the count, cut our swing down and go the other way. Why? Because that's exactly what he did. And he can tell you that, and he can feel it, and he can tell you how you're feeling. I know what you're feeling because I was there once, and that is so important. It's not to discredit anyone, but don't discredit what that is either. The experience of feeling that is just as important as anything. Amen. Amen.

SPEAKER_01 26:30

Cole what Cole Hamels talked about that last week, right? Same thing. It's a little stuff that we're losing out of the game that, and I do think we'll, you know, you know how this goes in sports. The pendulum swings all the way one way, and then it swings back. I do think that we'll there's starting to already be, like with Mattingley is a perfect example, a little bit of a swing back of all right, there's got to be some feel to this. Dave Roberts last year in the World Series. There's got to be some feel to the game. It's gotta be.

SPEAKER_00 26:54

It can't be just numbers. Numbers don't measure the heart, nerds don't measure the man. You gotta see it. You gotta see, you gotta be standing there on the field and see it. And I and you're able to make make real live decisions. I would have loved to have been playing against with Whitey Herzlock and all of them dudes back in the day. Like, those are baseball. If I could get them guys around me, I would, I would love it. You know, I played with Larry, you know, played for Larry Bo. I played for some guys. I I was love Mike Social, you know, he's another one of those, you know, just to catch your intellect guys. Like, that's what it's about, man. That's what it's about.

SPEAKER_01 27:31

All right, enough reminiscing. You ready to talk some uh some current stuff what we got going on? You bet some do some buyer sell?

SPEAKER_00 27:37

Let's do some buyer sell. What do we got? You know, I gotta see what you're where you're at. You know, you're pretty crafty with this.

SPEAKER_01 27:42

I try to, I try to keep you on your toes, Mo. So we are at the quarter pole of the season. Um, by the time everybody listens to this on Thursday, we are recording on Wednesday. Everybody's somewhere right around that 40-game mark. So we've got a real nice, solid base to make some decisions on whether or not we believe these things to be true or false. We're gonna say buy or sell. All right. So currently, this is the first show I'm gonna throw you. Currently, the leader in the AL East, which nobody saw coming, the Tampa Bay Rays, 15 games over 500, 28 and 13. They got two games up on the Yankees. They're 10 up on the Orioles, who are sitting in third place, and the 10 and a half up on the Toronto Blue Jays, who are sitting in fourth. All right, so that's we're gonna set the basis there. So the first buyer sell I have for you is are you buying or selling the Rays are gonna finish as a top two team in the AL East?

SPEAKER_00 28:33

I'm buying it. And I'm buying it. I like the way that they play. They have are one of the teams that, to me, over the last 15 years, that has looked at their roster and said, we're gonna maximize what we do well, and we're gonna go do it. Right now they got speed, put the bunt down, play good defense, timely hitting, make things happen, make things happen. And I think they're gonna be there. You know, the the the Rays never die, man. They they they they're always they're always coming. They they have some sometimes they have a tough year, but all in all, overall, they're one of those structure, structure organizations now that we produce this type of player, we know how to play. This is what our payroll is gonna be, and we're gonna go do it. So I'm I'm all with the Rays. I'm I'm buying them. All right, I like that. I like that. All right, this is gonna be a tough one.

SPEAKER_01 29:26

You ready? So the Rays sitting at the top of the AL East. Um, you have the Athletics sitting at the top of the AL West, 21 and 20, one game up on Seattle. I like that. Yeah, Seattle's starting to play a little bit better. You can see there's a little bit of life for them. I mean, they stole only five and five in the last 10 games, but they're starting to play a little bit better. But here's the big surprise for you, Mo. How about those Chicago White Sox sitting only a game and a half out in second place in the AL Central? So here's my buy or sell. Are you buying or are you selling? That two of these three teams will be in the playoffs: the Tampa Bay Rays, the Chicago White Sox, and the Oakland Athletics. Two of those three will be in the playoffs. I'm buying.

SPEAKER_00 30:12

Ooh. I'm buying.

SPEAKER_01 30:14

Who's then who's winning the division? Who's getting in the wild card there? Do you think you think the Rays are holding out of the East or the White Sox stealing the central? The Athletics hanging out in the West? Someone's gotta win a someone's gotta win one of those divisions.

SPEAKER_00 30:26

I'm buying that the white, that the Rays are gonna hold on, that the uh the A's, because I I like them. Big homage to them dudes, I like them. Oh, yeah. And they're young. I'm I'm gonna put it on them. I'm buying that the A's are gonna hold on in the West, and I'm buying that the Rays are gonna hold on in the East. But I'm just gonna say this listen, that dude, Menataka Murakami, he can run a whole team. He he you you're gonna have to beat them because he's he's knocking the ball out of sight, like for real. He hit a ball away, his hands came, bow, and it was the ball was away, and it pew looked like a left looked like a right-hander hit it. Like this dude is this dude is something else, and he's only gonna get better at time, you know, once he understands that second half, when he starts really understanding, like, you know, it was a this was the field out process. This is the first year. Yeah. This, I mean, this is the first half of the season, first quarter, as you say. He's only gonna get better once he gets more comfortable. So you're gonna have to beat the White Sox, but I just don't think they're there yet. I like these, I like these, these other two teams.

SPEAKER_01 31:48

Yeah, man. I can't believe he's he's already lived up to the hype, and then something. I know there was people poo-pooing that as he was coming over, and and he's like I said, lived up to, and then something. He's a bad boy at the plate. Bad boy.

SPEAKER_00 31:59

Listen, and then you you know, you can't tell me that he's not talking to Otani. He's gotta be talking. He's got a little bit of runway and information Otani has to give him how to do things, what it's gonna be like. All that stuff matters positively for a new guy coming in. They they they have information that you can take, and they're both left-handed hit it. But let me tell you something, man. That dude is strong. That dude is strong, and you know, I could tell from the early swings, you know, they're kind of beating him in a little bit. Now he's kind of looking in there. He he's getting through the ball. Now they're going away. Like, like, he, like, I could tell, like his, him, him mentally as a hitter is catching up. He's getting better and better, understanding the pattern. He's he's gonna be he's a he's he's a force.

SPEAKER_01 32:47

All right, I got two more for you.

unknown 32:49

Uh-oh.

SPEAKER_01 32:49

The AL the AL Central. Uh, and this is A, this is AL Heavy. We're gonna do another one of these in a week or two on the NL, trust me. AL Central, you got the guard dogs, the Guardians sitting 23 and 21, just won't go away. They're like the Rays, they just never go away. Um, you got the White Sox sitting in second, 20 and 21, Minnesota 19 and 23, Detroit, 19 and 23, Kansas City 19 and 23. Everybody's scuffling a little bit there, hanging their heads. They're right around 500. Are you buying or selling that no team in the central will finish over 500?

SPEAKER_00 33:21

I'm selling. I'm selling. I think the Indians are gonna finish over high 500.

SPEAKER_01 33:28

I love to you know I love to hear that. You know that.

SPEAKER_00 33:32

Well, I just I just I just think that they out of, you know, listen, Detroit has come on strong over the last couple, couple of three years. The Indians have the Indians have understood this formula for far longer. And they have, you know, you know, my player, you know, that is that is just great. And I think he, you know, even even Terry said, you know, how he is sets the example in the stage. I just think that he's just a he's he's just a driving force that, you know, definitely, they definitely they're gonna be over, they're definitely gonna be over 500, no, no doubt in my mind.

SPEAKER_01 34:11

Yeah, and they're finally, finally, this is one of the big um one of the big things that people complain about in Cleveland is that they take too long to call up youth play, youthful players that could help them at the major league level, or they take too long to move out a veteran that they have invested something in. And they did it, they've done both of them, right? They just brought up Travis Bazanna, who looks like he's built to be a leadoff hitter in Major League Baseball. I mean, this kid just draws walks like crazy. I think his OPS is already almost 500. He's only he's been here a couple weeks, and he's it's really hard to get him out. But the other things they did is they made that trade for Patrick Bailey, right? I mean, Bo Naylor, it just, you know, I love Bo. And I really love Josh, and I really had high hopes for Bo. But at some point, when Austin Hedges is actually hitting for the first time his career, and now Bo Naylor becomes your defensive backup, that's you you gotta go make a move. And they went traded for probably the best defensive catcher in baseball. So I'd love to agree with you. I hopefully they can hold on to first because they're at least doing the things to show some urgency for once.

SPEAKER_00 35:10

Like, if you think about it, well, now that we're talking about it, look at the the teams that we're talking about that I think they look at the analytic analytics, but they also evaluate. It's all the teams, the small market teams, that are trying to compete. They're saying, okay, we're gonna use some analytics, but we gotta get some guys that know how you know how to play and play with a culture and play together. So maybe it's not so bad as we think. You know what I mean? Like the Indians been doing the Indians have been doing it, you know. You see the Reds, the Reds are doing it with with you know, you know, with with with Terry over there. Um the A's are doing it, Tampa Bay's doing it. That's four or five teams right there, you know, you know, mixing and matching and and and using everything that they have. Let's just hope we get five more. That'll be 10. We're we're we're a third way there then. So I think our game may be maybe okay.

SPEAKER_01 36:02

You know, the great equalizer for a while was analytics, right? Because the big dogs weren't using it, they were spending the you know, money ball, all that. That's how they kind of equalize it. Well, now everybody's got analytics. Look at Daryl Morey in the NBA. Daryl Moore just got fired in Philly. He was kind of the godfather of analytics in the NBA. I mean, he's got that huge uh convention they do over there. The problem is it's not an advantage anymore. Everybody has it. So now how do you utilize it? How do you pair that up? And I know we keep cross, yeah, we keep crossing things here, but that was one of the big knocks of Daryl Morey. He never knew how to build a team. He didn't care about personality, he didn't care if you guys fit together in the locker room. Show me the spreadsheet. This is how they work, this is how they should play on the field, on the court, and we're seeing some of that in baseball. But now I think those lower market teams are going, hey, we got to get that feel back, otherwise, we're just gonna get ran off the field money-wise and analytics-wise.

SPEAKER_00 36:48

Culture is important. Oh, yeah. Culture is very important. Do we get along? You know, you only hear really about you hear about the 70, what 77 Yankees. Well, they'll flat out say we didn't like each other, and they still won. But you don't hear that a lot. Usually you hear, especially in baseball, the teams that really win, they really like each other. They they get along, they do things. But culture is very, very important. And I think there's teams now that are showing that, and they're veteran managers who are baseball guys. So let's let's we we might not, as I said, we might not be in that bad of shape.

SPEAKER_01 37:32

All right, we're ready for the ready for the last buyer saw? I'm excited for this one. We're gonna fix somebody here right on the podcast. We're gonna fix somebody, and I'm gonna I'm gonna get there for you. Cal Raleigh, the big dumper, has scuffled to say the least to start the season. He was 0 for 36, his last 36 until Tuesday night. He went two for four with a couple singles, but he's hitting 166 on the season, only seven home runs, 18 ribies, 573 OPS. I mean, this is not what everybody expected from him after he was pushing for the MVP last year. And I want to A, there's a first thing we're gonna do. We're just gonna buy or sell that Cal Raleigh will continue to underperform this year, and he is going to be a concern for the Seattle Mariners. Buy or sell that. I'm selling.

SPEAKER_00 38:17

And I'm selling because I I'm selling because I think he's hurt. There is no way you can make this fall of a drop. Something's physically wrong. This guy is claimed to be one of the one of the better athletes for his size in the game. A great base runner, a great, he's a golden glove catcher. Like he knows there's something physically gotta be wrong, and let's hope that they can correct it. It just seems like it's just too far off. Like he didn't just get this bad over the over the over the over the offseason. Something is physically wrong, and he's probably a tough guy, and he's not gonna say it, which which is commendable. But I think that they know, and they're just trying to get him all healed up for the second half, and that's what the A's are gonna have to worry about. Is him healing up and becoming that player uh to that that that he was. Is he gonna go out and hit 63, whatever he hit? No. But if he's even becomes 80% of himself, which I think I swear it's injury. There's there's just no way this guy just just fell off like this. It's there's something physically wrong.

SPEAKER_01 39:34

Yeah, the rest of that rafts are starting to come on. J Rod's looking good up there. But let me throw some numbers at you. This is what I was talking about fixing them. Let's just assume for a moment. We're gonna believe the uh the the PR staff out there that there's there is nothing wrong, and he's that's a reason we haven't talked about it, okay? Um, there is this is the slash line, because you know he's a switch hitter, obviously, so a little different. But this is a guy who loves to be right up on the plate. I mean, he's right on the plate. You know all about that, Mo. Let me give you his slash line. This is both sides of the plate, by the way, on inside fastballs. Listen to these numbers. 140, 250, 311 on inside fastballs for a guy who lives over top of the plate. And used to, I mean, so that means that tells me that pitches are saying, okay, you want to be that up on the plate. We're gonna put inside where you can't turn on as well. If you, if you're his coach or you're in that clubhouse with him, are you make how are you making any adjustments to this? How like how do you deal with a player who likes to be in a certain spot, but now pitchers have obviously started to figure out, hey, that's where we can attack him, and that's where he's having the biggest struggles.

SPEAKER_00 40:38

Well, listen, it's all about I tell people all the time, you just said it, pitchers have patterns. All right, we want to we want to crowd this guy because he's not turning the ball. Now, we both said we don't know, we right now we're assuming he's not hurt. Kick when you get in the box in your normal spot, shuffle back a little bit, two or three inches. Two or three inches gives you a lot of clearance. When you know somebody's coming in and try to bury you in, you gotta make a slight move. These catchers now and these pitchers are very, very smart. You come in there and you walk and you step back automatically four to six inches, they're gonna know. So you get set, and all of a sudden you start creeping back just a little bit, two, three inches, and that will clear you. You have to get the reason why I retired was I had a knee that wouldn't let me flex, and people were starting to bury me inside, and I couldn't defend myself. I used to clear that ball out, and all of a sudden I woke up one day and be like, dude, you're gonna, you're gonna, if you're not gonna move, you're gonna get hurt. So it's time to walk away. And that's what what what I did. But he's just gotta subtly, subtly kick back about two to three inches, clear those guys out, and then they'll get out of there and change, change their thought process. But give yourself a little bit of clearance to do that. If he's not hurt, yeah.

SPEAKER_01 42:08

That's I mean, that's first of all, amazing. That's hopefully exactly what I was hoping for, that type of advice. But I agree with you, kind of. I feel like there might there's probably more to it than just it does, it doesn't look like he's turning on those inside balls as as quickly as he was.

SPEAKER_00 42:20

And they and they were saying something about it, you know. I've never had an oblique, but oblique can't be fun. Um, it can't be fun. If it that's an oblique, I mean that's that's painful, bro. You can't you can't do anything with a bad oblique. But I just know that he's too tough for me. He's too, he's too edgy. He's he's got an edge about him. He knows what he wants to do. This guy's worked hard to become great. You just don't lose over time like that in that short period of time.

SPEAKER_01 42:54

All right, that's buyer sell, man. Yeah, I like it, I like it. That's buyer sell. We are gonna do another buyer sell. If we don't have a guest next week, we'll do one on the NL next week because that'll keep us right around that quarter poll mark. Uh, anything else you want to throw in here, Mo? I feel like that's a that was that was chock full of stuff right there. It was good stuff in there.

SPEAKER_00 43:10

Oh, that was that was a lot of good stuff. As I said, I love this game, and I hope that we just continue to I hope that the raise, the the raise in the way that they take advantage of their personnel keeps going. I hope that people realize the the the thoughts and the mindset of the player Don Mattingly is that are the reasons why the Phillies start hitting. And I hope that you know Dave Roberts is gonna really have to, he's gonna really have to like keep his team motivated to to stay up to that standard and and and and keep that going. We hope that Terry Francone. You know, creates the culture that he needs to get to get the the the the reds going. I hope all these baseball people come together and and it just shows all the different facets of what they're using together with their eyes and their heart and their know-how to show success on the field. That's what I'm hoping for.

SPEAKER_01 44:26

No, I'm right there with you. Um great great message because I do think this trickles down to the younger generation, too. That just don't get so obsessed with the numbers because you still got to get in there and feel it, too, right? You still got to go out and do it. And the coaches that are coaching them, you know, chemistry and and dogs matter, right? Dogs, dogs are still gonna find a way. Dogs are still gonna find a way.

SPEAKER_00 44:47

Yep. Dogs are gonna win. Dogs are gonna run.

SPEAKER_01 44:50

Um, R.I.P to Bobby Cox, obviously great. And also R.I.P. to longtime Cleveland Indians slash Guardians, PA announcer um Bob Tyak, who was uh I knew uh personally uh from all my years in the in the uh press box there. A legendary voice. If you're ever in Cleveland, you remember his voice. So R.I.P. to him and his family as well. A couple losses in the baseball family. Mo, always fun with you, brother. Always. All right, bro. Have a good week. Yeah, get back out on that water. All right, see you later, bro. All right, I see you.

SPEAKER_00 45:19

Bye.