The Ripple Effect of Leadership

Leadership is rarely confined to a single moment. The way we lead today shapes people, decisions, and outcomes long after the moment has passed.

In this episode of Operation Next Chapter, Marc and Cole explore the ripple effect leadership creates — how small actions, everyday decisions, and simple moments of guidance can impact others in ways we may never fully see.

Drawing from their experiences as leaders and mentors, they discuss the responsibility and opportunity that come with influence. A single conversation, a moment of encouragement, or the example we set can echo through someone else’s life, career, and leadership journey.

This episode is a reminder that leadership is never just about the present. The way we show up today may shape the leaders of tomorrow.

Because the true measure of leadership isn’t just what we accomplish — it’s what continues because of it.

Listen now and join the conversation.

OperationNextChapter@gmail.com

Transcript

SPEAKER_01 0:00

When we create the ripples, are they good or bad? And that doesn't mean that we're always going to be good. We've all seen the bad. We've all seen the negative impact on bad leadership. What are you doing to change that? What are you doing to prevent that? What are you doing to be the good leader? The one that the mark when he walked in the room everything was off. Or the cold when he walked into the room when you are not referred to.

SPEAKER_02 0:31

Welcome to Operation Next Chapter, where leadership lessons meet real life. We're Mark and Cole, two former Air Force First Sergeants. The stories we share come from wearing the diamonds, but the lessons apply far beyond the uniform. This season, we break down real moments of pressure, trust, conflict, resilience, and growth. Because leadership isn't about rank. It's about how you show for people, especially when life gets heavy. This is Operation Next Chapter. Let's get into it. We got this one, and we're gonna do another one and close out this season of Lessons from the Diamond. Really enjoyed talking about the stories and some of the things we learned, not just as first sergeants, but as humans, from you know, helping people in the good and the bad. And this is leading into the next season that we're gonna start in April, of kind of going back to the original mission of Operation Next Chapter and really providing some input and advice for veterans that have separated or are about to separate, and even some things that our civilian listeners can take away from.

SPEAKER_01 2:26

Yeah, this has been really cool. That's been good. And and like Mark said, our perspective comes from, you know, the lessons from the diamond. Obviously, it comes from where we're at and where we where we were, I should say, as first sergeants, and and in that perspective, but the application is up to you. You know, these are life lessons that we've learned that can be applied in multiple different instances, multiple different avenues, multiple different sits situations in life and places in life that you are. So yeah, it's been good. It's been been pretty fun.

SPEAKER_02 2:59

And we talk a lot about leadership, but leadership is not a rank or position or authority. Like we can lead ourselves, we can lead our families, we can lead without having a title, and that's really what these conversations are about is leading better in our own life, making our own life less stressful, helping those around us, and just having real talk. That was why we started this podcast to begin with, was real talk, real issues in our society.

SPEAKER_01 3:37

Yeah, I and you said it in the beginning. I would argue that leading yourself, learning to lead yourself and holding yourself accountable to do that for yourself is the most important piece in this. You know, if you're not leading yourself, if you're not putting the work into yourself and and working every day, striving every day to grow and to move forward, then who are you, what are you waiting for? And who are you, who do you think you're gonna lead? Who do you think you're gonna have the effect on? If you're not willing to put it into you, you can't pour it into somebody else. You can't can't lead anybody else if you're not if you're not doing it yourself. You've heard multiple stories, you've heard multiple times that where Mark and I haven't, right? Where we've slipped up, where we have fallen short, and everything else. Well, the beauty in that is we've had multiple opportunities to get up and keep going, get up and grow from those times and get up and move forward, and we're still doing it. We're not perfect, never will be. We will always continue to move forward and to lead ourselves first so that we can lead our families, so that we can be leaders in our jobs, so we can be leaders for in our community, and we have those opportunities, not because we seek those opportunities, but because they're provided to us.

SPEAKER_02 4:56

Yeah, and I would say I'm a better leader today than I was in the Air Force. We were given lots of opportunities to lead at all ranks, all positions. We were given fantastic formal education in the military that our civilian counterparts don't get at their companies and in their jobs. They are promoted and expected to know how to lead people and manage processes. We were taught how to do that in a formal environment. But I say I'm better today because we are reflecting on the things that we went through and the things that we did, and I'm learning every time we record an episode, and I'm remembering the things that I didn't do well too. So that's kind of what I want to go with today is the ripple effect of leading, like you said, ourselves, other people, our families, our friends, and how that shapes our culture unintentionally.

SPEAKER_01 6:01

Yeah, we've we've talked about when you walk into a room, is it good or bad? Right? Are people happy to see you? Are they not happy to see you? Right? That's how that's the talking talk of shaping the culture unintentionally. When you walk in and it's like, oh good, you know, Mark is here. We know that you know he's gonna provide guidance, we know he's gonna provide leadership, he's gonna provide that positive energy and everything else that's needed just because he's here. He may not say a word, he may not be in charge, he may not anything, but he's here, so we know we're gonna succeed, we know we're gonna move forward. Or, oh crap, Cole's here. That dude doesn't know his butt from a hole in the ground, and you know, where are we going? And you know, he's gonna be nothing but negative, and he's gonna bring everybody down, and you know, and everything else. What is it that you bring to the fight? What is it that you bring to the table? What ripples are you making in the situation? How is your leadership style or how are you as a person going to make those ripples? Are they good? Is it is it a positive thing, and it just keeps repeating and repeating and repeating, like throwing that rock in the stone or in the pond? You're the rock going into the pond, and those ripples are gonna spread out all over the pond. Well, in your community, that's exactly what it's doing, you know? That's exactly how you're how you're perceived. Is it a good thing? Is it a bad thing? Are you chaos? Do you bring that energy, or do you bring that calming, that easy, guiding leadership into the situation?

SPEAKER_02 7:44

Yeah, so for our life, you know, are your actions reaching further than our words, or are your words reaching further than your actions? You know, something to think about as we talk through this episode and share a couple stories, some things that we learn, some things that we did to help people, that's really what it is. Are we talking the talk or are we walking the walk?

SPEAKER_01 8:13

Yeah, it's easy to say it, it's harder to do it.

SPEAKER_02 8:16

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 8:16

You know, and I go back to that. You have to hold yourself accountable, you have to work on yourself, and you have to do what you're talking about, right? Otherwise, you're just a hypocrite.

SPEAKER_02 8:29

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 8:29

Do what I say, not what I do. Yeah. No, that's that's bad. Right? That's a terrible, you know, thing to say. How about do what I do because I'm doing it and it works, you know?

SPEAKER_02 8:42

Yeah. Several stories come to mind when we're talking about actions over words, and this one came to me last night, actually, when my wife and I were talking about what this episode was going to be about, and I remember I had a young airman, female airman, and she had just gotten to the base straight out of technical school, and her and her spouse were staying temporarily downtown at a hotel. They had a dog or two, they had a U-Haul truck with the trailer on the back with their vehicle. I think they were only local for a couple nights. And I remember meeting her maybe the day prior or a couple days prior to this event unfolding. And it was a Friday or Saturday night. I get a phone call the next morning, and it's hey, our stuff was stolen. What stuff? All of our stuff. I'm like, well, what do you mean, all your stuff? Like the hotel room, or what are you talking about? No, our U-Haul in vehicle is gone. It's not in the parking lot. And I'm like, holy shit. Where are you staying at? Um, you know, I go down there, I meet with her and her husband, and I think I have a a supervisor with me, just you know, see we how we can help them. So they had already called uh the police, filed a report, and you know, going from there. But in the meantime, they literally their entire household is gone. And they were just waiting for a base house to open up, and there wasn't any room in lodging. So the first thing is, okay, what do you guys need? Obviously, you're gonna need a vehicle to get to and from work. Um you're gonna need clothes, you know, just the basic things to sustain life for a couple weeks till we can figure this out. So, again, kind of like last episode, I don't know what to do. I've never had this happen before. But we put our heads together and I'm like, let's go to the Airman's Attic. The Airman's Attic, for those that don't know, is a thrift store on the base. And depending on your rank, you can go there and get free stuff, and the more rank you have, you can buy stuff. Just depends. Uniforms are free, blah blah blah. So we go there, and of course, she was new, she didn't know it existed, but they're young, they don't have a lot of money. Here's a bunch of free stuff pots, pans, clothing, um dog food, dog dishes, like everything but a vehicle, basically, right? To get them through the next couple weeks or month or whatever it's going to be. The next is all right, let's figure out a vehicle situation. That I don't remember exactly what we did to help them, but I remembered they probably got a rental for a few days so she could go back and forth to work, and that would have been a very easy situation to give her words, but instead we were out with them going to make this happen as they're new to the whole city, they're new to the base, they don't know where anything is at. It's our actions that led them to some sort of comfortability after losing all of their stuff. You know, I was never that person just to do a phone call or just to say, well, go do this, this, and this. No, we go do it. I'll do it with you, we'll do it together, we'll do it, we'll get it done. There's people here to help. And I remember all of her leadership and my fellow coworkers, some airmen, everybody jumped together and made this happen for this new person that just had a horrible thing happen, you know? And that ripple effect started with the phone call and us getting involved as leadership, and just everybody was going to figure out how we can help them. It turned out okay, but it sucked, right? It sucked for them at first, but everybody was doing different things and trying to figure out how we can help them out. And that was a great feeling to be able to help people that were brand new, didn't know where anything was, and set the precedent of, well, this is where I'm going to work, and these are great people.

SPEAKER_01 13:17

Yeah, you you mentioned she could have called, you could have given her places to go, go do this, go do that, go do this. The leadership piece is going to respond to them to help them walk through it with you.

SPEAKER_02 13:34

Yeah, go do this. I know you don't have a vehicle, but go go find this out.

SPEAKER_01 13:38

Right.

SPEAKER_02 13:39

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 13:39

Or sending somebody else, hey, go help this person out, right? Go help this person, go help them do this. Well, they're not the ones that got the call, they don't know the whole situation, and it speaks volumes that you just go go help, right? You know, you can go do this or send somebody to do it, just go do it. Go help with them, walk through them, through the situation with them. It shrappy situation, still a crappy situation, but made easier to walk through, built the trust, built the connection, and probably helped spoke volumes moving forward as to what unit she was walking in. Also, her husband was he active duty as well?

SPEAKER_02 14:24

No.

SPEAKER_01 14:25

So now he knows that his wife is going to work in a unit that is going to respond and going to help and going to take care of their whole family. Probably a little comforting for him knowing that that's where his wife's going to work.

SPEAKER_02 14:39

Yeah, absolutely. And I would say the majority of the shirts we worked with were just like us. That became their priority. That was their number one fire burning, and everything else went to the wayside until we figured this out. That's how we operated. You had to prioritize, and that was the number one priority for that day. It wasn't going into that morning, but it ended up being just like that.

SPEAKER_01 15:06

Yeah. When the plan goes to crap, right? We've talked about that. When the plan goes to crap, you go in and you have certain things you're going to get done, all changes on a phone call. And responding to that and making that your priority, dropping everything else and making that your priority, um that that speaks volumes. That that goes a long way. Those ripples will be felt probably for years to come and in her career.

SPEAKER_02 15:36

Yeah, it was like the story you told a few episodes ago about the airman that was traveling, and you helped her out, and they're about just kept walking by, you know.

SPEAKER_01 15:45

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 15:46

I don't know what ended up happening with that airman and her spouse, but she was, you know, a great airman even after that happened and got through it, and we all moved on different areas, but yeah, we are not the kind of people to just sit around and use words as leadership. Right. Actions mean something. Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 16:07

Well, you spoke a couple episodes ago too of the the Sunday morning after the DUI. Think about the ripple effect that happened there.

SPEAKER_02 16:15

The negative ripple effect.

SPEAKER_01 16:16

The negative ripple, right? You know, that wasn't that wasn't a comforting ripple. That was a chaotic ripple effect that that happened needlessly, right? When we talk about taking care of people, you you have to meet everybody where they're at. And public humiliation, in my case with my lieutenant, worked out great, right? But I'm gonna guess it had the opposite. That leadership, that ripple effect that you described in that instance, probably created a lot of question marks rather than a lot of comfort.

SPEAKER_02 16:48

Yeah, what's something that you remember from your time as a shoot that had that ripple effect, positive or negative?

SPEAKER_01 16:57

It's hard to pinpoint one, but I will say this. I and this is kind of a broad, I have a lot of stories to go with us, but when I knew that my leadership was having a positive ripple effect were when people would walk into my office knowing that they something had gone wrong, right? Knowing that they were about to get it handed to them, and they they came in anyway. I I go back to I shared it a while ago. I said there was more to this story. The individual that walked in and admitted he was addicted to heroin, right? His career is over. We all know it, but he did it anyway. Why did that happen? Well, I go back in that story, back in time before that date, and he had an issue. It was a vehicle issue, it wasn't stolen, but his truck had broke and he couldn't get where he needed to be, and he was late to work. The reason was so a quote-unquote negative incident because he was late to work, uh, because his vehicle broke down. I get word that he was late to work. Cool, what do we need to do? How do we need to do this? And I'm an aircraft maintenance guy, I know some maintenance folks, and we got his truck into a buddy of mine, and he didn't have a ton of money then. Little did I know it was because he had a drug habit, but that's beside the point. Um, but he didn't have any money to fix his vehicle. Cool. I know some maintenance guys, I know some people who can who can do some maintenance. We're gonna have to pay for the part to fix it. But we got his truck up and running. Just the relief that I saw on his face at that point, the relief that was felt, he was fine, he was coming to work, he had his truck back, he could do his things. But the other part to that is was all of he had called a couple people and nobody wanted to help nobody, none of his buddies could help him. So the first sergeant gets involved and all of a sudden it's taken care of. That ripple effect across his whole shop, because we all know good, bad, right, wrong, people talk, people share, that gave me credibility, and all I did was just I didn't do anything except I know people who can fix your car, I know people who have time right now, in the moment, let's go get it done. Did that play a part in him walking into my office with his bad habit? I don't know, but those are the types of things that we talk about. Your airman, I'm sure, spoke about it. I know that the the young lady that I helped over in the desert, I know she spoke about it because she told me she did. When we create the ripples, are they good or bad? And that doesn't mean that we're always going to be good. We've all seen the bad, we've all seen the negative impact on bad leadership. What are you doing to change that? What are you doing to prevent that? What are you doing to be the good leader? The one that the mark when he walks in the room and everything's calm, or the Cole when he walks into the room when people are not super excited.

SPEAKER_02 20:05

I can tell you I left a bad ripple as a first sergeant, and I was called out on it, and I appreciated it because I did it and didn't even realize it. We were at Commander's Call, and it was maybe a few months into this squadron. Commander's Call is a meeting where the whole unit gets together and the commander passes along notes, awards, decorations, you know, you name it. A lot happens in let's say an hour. He usually gave me a few minutes at the end to bring up any issues that you know the first sergeants are aware of or address questions that people have and whatnot. The rule, the unwritten rule is you get the negative out of the way, end it on a positive. Well, I was the opposite. I did the reverse. Not intentionally, just wasn't thinking. So that was towards the end of the commander's call. Commander had final words. We all depart, and I had a fellow senior NCO come up to me and very honest, hey shirt, uh you started with the negative, or you started with the positive and ended on a negative. I don't know if you knew you did that, but just wanted to bring it to your attention. I was like, shit, I did. Thank you. I appreciate that. And I never forgot it from then on. But I'm sure that had a negative ripple effect across the squadron, couple hundred people, that I ended on a negative subject. I don't even know what it was. It doesn't matter, but it was not a positive note, yeah, right?

SPEAKER_01 21:45

Unintentional.

SPEAKER_02 21:46

Totally.

SPEAKER_01 21:47

It happens, yeah.

SPEAKER_02 21:49

It was a learning moment.

SPEAKER_01 21:50

Yeah. So I will tell another specific story. I was deployed, individuals' mom had gone in for surgery back home. I had uh him. Over there. Uh things went bad in the surgery and he needed to get home. He was home the next day. Cool. I did my job. Good to go. About two months down the road, I get a letter from his mom. Actually, it wasn't from his mom, it was from his sister. And she had written on the impact that it made to have her well her brother, mom's son, home so quickly to recover, to walk through the recovery process. I had no idea, right? I I I just did my job. I just did what I do. You know, making making stuff happen, helping people out. The ripple effects lasted went all the way into their family. Enough for the sister to write me a letter.

SPEAKER_02 22:45

Thanking you.

SPEAKER_01 22:46

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 22:46

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 22:47

For doing my job. That's the way I looked at it. It's just my job. It's just what I'm doing. Don't think about the things. Don't think about how it's impacting anything. It's just helping people out. It's making sure that all the barriers are down so that they can get from point A to point B fast.

SPEAKER_02 23:04

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 23:05

And sometimes you just do it. That's that unintentional part, right? What shapes the culture unintentionally? What are you doing that's unintentional on your part? I mean, I did it with intention and I made sure that he got there, but I didn't mean to have a positive impact on their whole family because he got there and he was able, that was turns out he was a bit of a mama's boy, but that's beside the point. It doesn't make any difference. That impacted their family. And I had I'd never met them. I didn't know who they were. I still haven't met him, other than the letter.

SPEAKER_02 23:38

Yeah. So and what you did was a very small thing in our world at that time, but in their world, that was the most important thing at that time. Yeah. And nor would you expect to get a thank you from it because you're just doing what we're supposed to do. Right. And that's the lesson in this episode is are you doing things out of the kindness of your heart, or are you doing things expecting something in return? And if that's the case, we're doing it for the wrong reason. Do things because it's the right thing to do, whether somebody's watching or not. And you may get a thanks, you may not. But do it because you wanted to do it and you made a difference in somebody's life.

SPEAKER_01 24:21

Yeah. That goes back. Your actions reach further than your words. Yeah. Right? I never spoke to anyone. I I just did it. It was just my actions. It was just taking care of this individual in this situation. I got news, I acted, he got home. That was as simple as it was for me. I knew he needed to be home, right? Obviously. Let's let's make it happen. You know, I knew my guy's truck needed to get fixed. Just make it happen. When nobody else would help, just make it happen. And it wasn't words. It wasn't, you know, telling somebody to do something or sending somebody else to that has a situation they don't know about. No. Just do it. Out of the kindness of my heart, because I cared, and we take care of people. Are you doing that? Are you out there helping folks? Or are you just speaking stuff?

SPEAKER_02 25:19

And with the vehicle situation, it lined up with yours and my skills. Right? We're mechanics. Right. We see broke stuff. We're gonna go fix it.

SPEAKER_01 25:30

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 25:30

Most of time we don't want help. We definitely don't read directions. Why do I have these leftover parts? No, and all seriousness. Because they send extra stuff. That's not your fault. Spare spare parts. That's right. That's right. But in all seriousness, that's what it comes down to is here's a problem. I can fix this. Let's do it.

SPEAKER_01 25:51

Yeah. The ripple effects are real. And they continue to reach further and further and further and further to where you don't even know how far out it's gotten.

SPEAKER_02 26:01

Yeah, because at its surface, you saved that airman time, money, stress, and most likely he told people about it. The ripple effect kept going. Hey, the shirt's a good dude, and he just did this for me. So then the next time somebody has an issue, they're gonna go to you. Hopefully they're using their leadership before that, but that's not the point. The point is there's credibility with the person, with the leader that helped solve a problem.

SPEAKER_01 26:31

Shape a culture.

SPEAKER_02 26:32

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 26:33

Without even trying. I don't want to downplay it, but yeah. It was that wasn't the that wasn't what I was looking for. Yes, the intent. Thank you.

SPEAKER_02 26:42

So yeah, the lesson, you know, leadership and its ripple effect. How far does your influence travel? You know, something to think about as we close out this episode and how far does your influence travel? Even in your individual life, your family, maybe your work, I bet it travels a lot further than you think it does. Negatively and positively.

SPEAKER_01 27:10

I was about to say that. When you're asking that question, understand, your scope isn't big enough.

SPEAKER_02 27:16

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 27:16

What you're doing affects people a long way away. What you're doing, how you're affecting situations, how what you're what energy you're bringing to the table has a lasting effect on a lot of people. You may not even realize it. If it's in your home life, your kids are learning from it. And if it's in your work life, multiple layers, multiple people away from you are seeing it. They're learning from it. And people talk. Right? If it's if it's in your home life with your kids, guess what? They're seeing it and they're feeling it, and it's going to continue to impact them for a long time. Potentially. Positive and negatively, right? Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 28:01

Both.

SPEAKER_01 28:02

Your scope is not big enough for the ripples that you're leaving in people's life.

SPEAKER_02 28:06

Well said.

SPEAKER_01 28:08

It's been great, brother. Yeah, appreciate the talks.

SPEAKER_02 28:11

Yeah, the talks are priceless, and I know the ripple effect we're having just by doing this podcast is reaching levels we can't fathom.

SPEAKER_01 28:20

Yep.

SPEAKER_02 28:21

Based on what very little feedback we get. Most of it is positive. We've had a couple, you know, hey, not negative, but just some things to think about. But yeah, I truly believe we are making a difference in people's lives, and we just can't quantify that. It's the same in our leadership and everybody's leadership in life.

SPEAKER_00 28:45

Yeah, man, for sure. Things are always good. It's always fun. I enjoy our chat. I hope everybody enjoys it as much as we do. Thanks for listening.

SPEAKER_02 28:53

Yeah, we'll talk there by Tim.

SPEAKER_00 28:55

Okay.

SPEAKER_01 29:00

Thanks for listening to Operation Next Chapter. If today gave you something useful, take it with you and apply it. Leadership shows up every day in your work, your family, and your choices. If this helps, share it with someone who needs it and follow us for what's next. We'd also love to hear from you questions, feedbacks, and stories of what you want us to cover. Email us at operation next chapter at gmail.com. Until next time, keep leading and keep reclaiming what matters.