Operation Next Chapter
Operation Next Chapter is a leadership and life podcast for people navigating transition, pressure, and purpose.
Hosted by Marc and Cole — two former U.S. Air Force First Sergeants — the show is built on real stories from the diamond: moments of crisis, accountability, compassion, and growth that shaped how they led people when it mattered most.
Each episode breaks down lessons learned in high-stress environments and translates them into practical guidance for everyday life — at work, at home, in relationships, and in personal growth.
At the heart of the show is a simple mission: RECLAIM — your leadership, your finances, your health, and your next chapter of life.
Whether you’re a veteran transitioning out of service, a leader feeling the weight of responsibility, or someone looking to live with more intention and resilience, Operation Next Chapter is here to help you move forward with clarity and purpose.
Because leadership doesn’t end when the uniform comes off — it evolves.
Email us at OperationNextChapter@gmail.com
Operation Next Chapter
Identity After Achievement
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Who are you when the title is gone?
For many of us, our identity becomes tied to our profession, accomplishments, rank, business, or role in life. But what happens when those things change? What happens when the uniform comes off, career changes, the kids leave home, or the goal you've been chasing is finally achieved?
In this episode, Marc and Cole explore the challenge of building an identity that goes deeper than what you do. They discuss the danger of allowing achievements to define your worth, the constant noise of outside opinions, and how to stay aligned with your own values instead of someone else's expectations.
The conversation focuses on filtering external voices, defining success on your own terms, and building a foundation rooted in character rather than status. Because titles may come and go, but who you are remains.
If you've ever found yourself asking, "What's next?" after reaching a major milestone, this episode is for you.
OperationNextChapter@gmail.com
It's just that. And we've talked about achievements, and I was guilty, you know, in the military. A lot of my identity was tied to those achievements. Was it tied to the next rank? Was it tied to being a first sergeant? Was tied to all that. Well, all of that stuff, it served me very well. Don't get me wrong. I love the military. I had a great career. I'm happy with it and everything else. But I'm not saying it was the most healthy. I'm not saying that it was the best way to live.
SPEAKER_00Welcome to Operate the Next Chapter. We're Mark Nicole, retired Air Force First Sergeant. And this season is about leadership without the uniform. Because eventually the rank comes off, the structure changes, and no one has given you orders anymore. So who are you when no one has telling you who to be? This season is about reclaiming your standards, your discipline, and your role as a leader at home, at work, and in your own life. The next chapter isn't its time. It's built. Let's get to work. We got a lot to catch up on.
SPEAKER_01Dude, yeah. When I walked in, you said it we the last time we recorded was back in April. Dude, that's almost two months ago.
SPEAKER_00Yeah, I know we've talked about it before, but we record several episodes in one sitting, but yeah, it didn't seem like it'd been that long. We went through all of May. Basically, we didn't even see each other. We saw each other once, and that was at an event that I do want to talk about, but yeah, we hadn't recorded since late April. So we both have some some life updates.
SPEAKER_01Yeah. Significant things have happened since then. We got to put into practice a lot of what we talk about, right? A lot of that growth and a lot of that change and a lot of that, you know, shifting on the fly for both of us, right? It's just been a whirlwind of a couple months. That's why it didn't seem like it had been that long because it's just been one thing after another after another. And we've communicated via text and stuff throughout this and and everything else. It's wild how what we talk about right here in this podcast months ago, we put into fruition just in the past you know couple weeks.
SPEAKER_00Yeah, that's exactly what I was gonna say. And this episode was planned and months ago, but the timing of it to come up for recording just is a great segue into what we have going on in our lives, and I think us talking about it, people will be able to relate. So you can go first, man.
SPEAKER_01So we talked about Mark said the last time we recorded was back in late April. Late April, everything was fine with job and family and everything else, and we're tracking, and Jenny and I are making plans and for the job that I was in, and the place that we wanted to be, and what we wanted to do and go to. And overnight, literally overnight, I got a call and we had a town hall meeting for for my job, and um, you know, there's a lot of question marks because I had sensed some things, right? Um, but again, I I'm not in the no, I'm not in a leadership position there at the facility. And so the town hall meeting happened on a Monday. Uh, and the first words that the senior VP who was doing the town hall said was if you've been employed here more than 60 days, you'll get paid until uh the end of June. If you haven't, today's your last day. So the hospital that I was working for, essentially, they enclosed their doors, but they collapsed to just a certain population, and we were out of a job. 360 people got notified that they didn't have a job. The ironic piece, that call happened on my birthday, and it's like my family's there, we're gonna enjoy the day, and so that's the first here's this steaming pile of crap. What are you gonna do with it? So I walked out. Um, I pulled Jenny aside, told her what was going on, and we went on with the day. You know, what are you gonna do? I'm not gonna let it affect my time with my family, I'm not gonna let it affect my you know the day or ruin the day. So what do you do? That's what we did. We went on as normal. Difficult, and I'll say a few years ago, that would have never happened. I'd have been a mess. And not mess, boo-hoo, crying, but just all of the things going through my head.
SPEAKER_00Like what's next?
SPEAKER_01Yeah. How how do I go? Where do I go? All of my plans have just been destroyed in one town hall meeting and start that spiral of holy crap, what do I do?
SPEAKER_00It's crazy because this episode, I want to title it identity after achievement. Like you said, in the past, your identity had just ended with news like that.
SPEAKER_01Yeah.
SPEAKER_00You achieve something, you've been doing something for a couple years, and then all of a sudden, boom, it's over. What's next? So knowing what you just told us, what's the new identity, what's the next chapter in Cole's life?
SPEAKER_01So I I put into practice what we talk about, I put into practice what what I have learned to do over time, and that was just relax and have faith, right? We've said it before, you guys kind of know where we're coming from. I am I'm a faithful, I'm a Christian, I pray, I talk to the man, to God, you know. I believe that he has a plan, I believe that his plan is perfect, and it's my job to live that plan. And so there's comfort in that, a lot of comfort in that, and that's what I went to. You know, what's next? We'll be okay, right? There's another door that's going to open. I'm sure of it. It may be a complete change, which it turns out it was, but there's gonna be another door that's gonna open, and I'm gonna seek comfort in the fact that God has a plan for Jenny and I.
SPEAKER_00Yeah, and that new plan, if it does go to fruition, is going to affect us and the podcast.
SPEAKER_01Absolutely.
SPEAKER_00Like I've already done the research, we're gonna be recording from different locations, and I'm talking different coasts of the United States, so we're still gonna continue this, it's just gonna be a different way of recording for us. The listener will never know. Right.
SPEAKER_01And I'll be honest, you were one of the first people that I thought about when I'm going through this. How is this going to work? And I sent you a text almost immediately. Hey, me, we we have to figure out how to do this from apart because I think that this is gonna happen. And you immediately shot back, cool, this is the program we'll use, this is how we'll do it, we'll just have to make it work. Those are the things, those are the things that we talk about, right? That we talk about in these podcasts, that we talk about these lessons that we learned. And so I relied on my faith. I sat back, I took a breath, I paused, I did receive a couple phone calls, and again, God's plan was revealed. And what's coming to fruition is the fact what you just mentioned. We're gonna be on opposite coasts. I received a job offer and did accept a job offer to go to work, and I've been working remotely for nine years, and I'm going to work in a hospital running a program over in Florida, and so there's comfort in that faith. There's comfort in the pause and the relaxation and not spiraling, not spinning up or spinning down into that dark hole of life is over, I can't deal with this. If you can remain calm through the difficult times, plans are revealed.
SPEAKER_00This is a great example of not tying our achievements to our identity. Careers are going to change, titles are temporary, things evolve. So what you just said is basically a really good description of what everything we've talked about in previous episodes coming to fruition in our life right now. Practicing what we preach. You didn't freak out, you didn't go into panic mode, you weren't tied by the golden handcuffs, a new opportunity arise, and there's really no explanation for other than God probably saw something in your future that you didn't see, opened up the door, and here we go. We're going into another chapter of life.
SPEAKER_01Yeah. Operation next chapter, it's kind of fitting. You know, what are you doing? What are you doing now to set yourself up for that next chapter? And for me, in this situation, what I was doing now to set myself up was just learning how to deal with difficult situations, learning how to regulate and stay consistent with my emotion, emotional control, and all of that comes into play. That's what I was doing, and I had no idea that this was coming.
SPEAKER_00Yeah. If your identity is tied solely to what you do, you'll eventually face a crisis when you can't do it anymore. That's not you or me. We see it as another opportunity, and that's what we want to get out is like you can see it one way or the other. Your perspective can mean a lot, whether it's a crisis or an opportunity.
SPEAKER_01Exactly. It's just that, and we've talked about achievements, and I was guilty, you know, in the military. A lot of my identity was tied to those achievements. Was it tied to the next rank? Was tied to being a first sergeant, was tied to all that. Well, all of that stuff, it served me very well. Don't get me wrong. I loved the military, I had a great career, I'm happy with it, and everything else. But I'm not saying it was the most healthy, I'm not saying that it was the best way to live. And I've had to adjust. I it's taken significant work for me personally on myself looking inward and looking at me and looking what all I have to bring to the table that has nothing to do with achievements.
SPEAKER_00Well, and all those things you listed while we were in uniform were all great things and were all going to end at some time. We knew that, we just didn't want it to come. You know what I mean?
SPEAKER_01Yeah. Yeah, no doubt. We knew that there was an end date, right? We just didn't want to get to that date.
SPEAKER_00Right.
SPEAKER_01And we wanted to keep kicking that can down the road and holding on sometimes too tight.
SPEAKER_00And not knowing what the next thing was going to be, just not just for us, but other people is usually the scary thing. What's next?
SPEAKER_01Right.
SPEAKER_00And for us, it was always another opportunity to lead people, manage processes, and keep serving. That's really what it came down to.
SPEAKER_01Yeah. It's just that when the achievements and everything stop, and when obviously we have no rank and everything, and what's your identity? And my identity is just being me, being a father, a husband, and supporting my family. And and again, this comes at a time in genuineized life where I am back to being, and I am the sole provider. So there's that. I told you earlier, I panicked on retirement because I had just cut my income in half, and I was that sole provider because we had moved around and everything. This is almost the same situation, and I can tell you that my reaction was far different.
SPEAKER_00It might be even heavier right now because you're gonna pick up and move across the country when you didn't do that coming out of the Air Force. No doubt. But you said something that caught my ear, and it was the identity of being a husband, a father, man of faith. We are not tied to one identity. There's more than one identity in our lives when you really peel the onion back. For me personally, my identity just changed as well. I'm just now becoming a business owner.
SPEAKER_01No big deal.
SPEAKER_00Never saw that coming. My wife's idea was to open up a clinic to where she can do injections and as an RN. And that involves me doing the business behind the scenes. This is literally just came up three weeks ago, four weeks ago. So I can relate to an identity change and all the other things I have been doing, that's not going to change. I'm just adding a little bit more to my plate, but it's significant. You texted me last night about today's recording. My mind was so far from recording today because I've been concentrating on getting this business up and running. And I was like, oh crap, I never even we never even talked about what we're gonna talk about, right? So yeah, big things in both of our lives, and this is also where we would probably just be BSing before we hit record, but this is the raw conversation normally that we don't record. And I wanted to capture it today because it's great talking points, it's great learning lessons for listeners, and I'm sure people can relate to the things that we've already said.
SPEAKER_01Yeah, when I text you last night, I hadn't thought about it. I hadn't thought about this recording at all. And I'll be honest, this is I don't know, good or bad or whatever. There's half the time, I don't have any idea what day of the week it is. Because I'm just out living life, doing things, and and staying busy and everything else. And I actually said to Jenny, what day is it? And that struck the holy crap, tomorrow's Thursday. Mark and I are recording tomorrow. We haven't discussed topics, we have no idea what's going on. Let me shoot him a text. And you know, we went back and forth and discussed it. Well, here's the thing: all of these things in life had happened, you know, and we've been talking about them, and this fits perfect. This topic fits perfect into all of that. The other piece is the re the episode that was released last Monday was a preclude to everything that happened in our life, and that was recorded the back in April.
SPEAKER_00Yeah.
SPEAKER_01It just solidifies what we talk about on this podcast. We talk about the difficult times, we talk about your responses, we talk about what you're doing to prepare for the future and what lessons you're learning on the fly. We're gonna make mistakes, it's gonna happen. We're gonna trip and fall, it's gonna happen. And you know what? We should start celebrating those as much as we celebrate our achievements.
SPEAKER_00Yeah, because just like the last episode, plans changed in both of our lives. We're recording on a Thursday morning. We plan to record Saturday, yeah, and we normally record on Saturday mornings, but guess what? Our plans change, we responded, and we keep rolling. That's exactly what we said in the last episode is how do you respond? Plans are going to change, let's normalize it.
SPEAKER_01Yeah. Life. Right? Life and what do you do with life? What do you do with those opportunities to grow when life throws you a curveball? Do you sit back and wait for it? Are you overzealous and swing too early? Do you look like a fool up there in a batter's box? What do you do with it? I'm not saying that I haven't struck out on curveballs, but I'm learning. Every time I'm learning.
SPEAKER_00Yeah, we're not saying it's easy, but we're saying is there's more than one way to respond, and you get to choose that.
SPEAKER_01Yeah, it's not easy, but it is possible. Right. It is possible to respond in a different way than you have before that might have put you in a dark space, what might have put you in a bad position. Learning from those mistakes, learning from those situations. I won't even call them mistakes. Learning from those situations is what being successful looks like.
SPEAKER_00Yeah. Identity after achievement. I want to talk about the event that you and I attended as wingmen such mentors at a military transition event. It was called Edge for Vets. It was sponsored by a local organization. The Airmen, Capital A, that attended, were nearing separation and retirement. Cole and I were invited through Mutual Friend to be a mentor to these folks that are at this event and they're learning the next chapter prior to retiring or separating from the Air Force. And the whole purpose of it was finding that next career, finding that next identity after their achievements in the Air Force. It was a career preparation workshop. Something you and I wish we had when we retired a few years ago, but we didn't. So this is a way that both Cole and I are giving back helping folks out that are following in on our footsteps. And it was really the sole purpose of starting this podcast. Helping people transition a little easier than what we did or what we had. Learn from our mistakes. Here's some helpful tips. So, yeah, what what were your thoughts on the event and how it ties to identity after achievement? Identity after the Air Force, let's say that the military.
SPEAKER_01I thought it was great. You said it. I wish we had something like this before, right? We both went through transition assistance from the Air Force. Uh it was tailored towards helping folks transition from the military, but it it wasn't enough. And I'm not saying that Edge for Vets will be the thing that's going to make these people successful that we spoke with, but it's another resource. It's another opportunity for them to connect with folks outside of the military. I mean, it was a great production, not production, it was a great event. There were people there from civilian companies here locally in the area that were literally hiring authorities, that were literally, you know, HR recruiters and everything. And it gave the airmen, big A airmen, the opportunity to see this is what I've been doing in the military for X amount of years. This is the things that I think I've been doing and I've been doing right. And holy crap, some of that does translate. You know, they had folks, you know, we go through the the packet and they're filling stuff out. And then I love the fact that they had guys, men and women stand up and say, okay, what were your answers to the questions? What were your how did you respond to these questions that were in the pamphlet and let those people talk? And then looked at some of the hiring authorities there sitting in the crowd and said, Does this person fit into your company? And those companies didn't necessarily have anything to do with their AFSE or their job in the Air Force, but the way that mindset and the the work ethic and everything else that they put down on paper and answered those questions absolutely translated.
SPEAKER_00Soft skills. Yes. Not necessarily hard skills. Some did, some didn't. But yeah, let me set the stage. We're sitting in a hangar. There's an airplane there. There's, I don't know, 25, 30 tables, 40 airmen or so, and then probably even more than that from the public sector, like Cole said. And then a few like Cole and us, where wingmen and mentors were at mixed tables together. We're having conversation about their leadership strengths, their values and skills, and how that could translate into a civilian career. And like you said, all of us were there to help these airmen think about the next chapter in their life and where they could possibly fit in at companies and how we were helping them with resume ideas and interview skills, and it was powerful. And then at the end, the last I don't know, a couple hours, those HR folks and company representatives had tables set up, and the airmen had a chance to go talk to those companies and industries that they might possibly be interested in working at after retiring or separating. Oh, and by the way, here's a copy of my resume, and they were getting real-time advice on what looked good, what didn't. It just it was a great event. One day, so much packed into it, and we met people that this was their second time there, and I know for a couple people at our table, they were gonna go again when it's up in the fall, and we are too. Like I learned a lot sitting there, so it basically came down to the identity part where in the military the team concept is we, right? I remember getting I don't want to say scolded, but lectured on you're we when you're briefing as a leader, it's not Johnny did this or he did that or she didn't do this. We failed, we succeeded. Well, the transition into the civilian world is I. And that's weird for us. We're so trained on the team concept that when we retired, I got caught saying that too. And I remember my very first interview was what did you do? I get what your team did, but what did Mark do? And I had to sit back in my chair, I'm like, wow, nobody ever told me that.
SPEAKER_01Yeah, but those airmen got that feedback right there on the spot from before they transitioned. That's right.
SPEAKER_00Right.
SPEAKER_01And to start adapting that mindset, and that's not to say be selfish, that's not to say any of that. But Mark is exactly right. You know, in the military, first responder world, everything is about the team, everything is about the we transferring out into the civilian market. You have to be selfish and put I in there because if you led the team, you accomplished that mission. You yourself did. And that's what you have to you know put on that resume, and that's the interviewing skills, and that's the the transition into that next chapter. Does that mean that once you land that job, you don't go back to that we mentality? No, it absolutely doesn't, but you have to be a little selfish and you have to celebrate yourself and your accomplishments. And in that moment, real time, those airmen got that feedback. And the event, like you said, was great. It was spread, it was in the hangar, we're at multiple different tables, but we're all conversing within each other, and we're going through the questions and we're offering advice and we're offering, hey, feedback on this is what I did, this is what helped me, this is what tanked me. Again, being open, being vulnerable, sharing experiences, both positive and negative, or positive and missteps. Great event.
SPEAKER_00Yeah, and good on those airmen who did this from a voluntary perspective. Like nobody was forced there. No, the Air Force didn't say you must go to this. They were there because they want to get a leg up when their time comes. And the questions that they were asking were phenomenal. And I learned a lot from the company employees that was sitting at our table, their perspective that were not former military or not former Air Force. They had great perspective that honestly I'm glad I was sitting there to listen to it because it had my brain turning. But yeah, it was it was a great event, and I don't want this to just turn into a military transition talk. This could be for anybody. How or what are you doing to prepare yourself for the eventual career change? Right? I know there's a career event all the time in multiple cities. I see them on social media. A lot of what I see are military-catered, but I know there's more out there for any civilian that's looking to change careers. And this was just one of those opportunities that came up, and I'm glad people took advantage of it. A free event. They probably took so much home that it was hard to digest. I also want to compliment on the wing commander, the colonel that came down and spoke, him and the chief. But what he said resonated in my brain because he's right. What we do inside the gate, we're really good at. We're not good at preparing airmen to go outside the gate. Civilian industries, you guys are better at it.
SPEAKER_01Yeah. Nailed it right on the head. Because we're not. We're focused on everything that happens with the mission, everything that happens inside that gate, everything that has to do with protecting this nation and defending this nation. We're really good at that. We succeed at that over and over and over again. Events like this help us to learn that you can succeed outside the gate as well. Even though the mission changes, and you think your identity is lost, you're just shifting your identity. Back to what you said before: father, husband, man of faith, that's my identity. Well, guess what? That was my identity when I was in the Air Force as well. I just put the airmen on the top, and that was the only thing that I thought of. Events like what we attended in doing this podcast is just trying to show people, hey, your identity is you're carrying it throughout. You can be successful anywhere that you go. You just have to have the right mindset. Part of that rhyme right mindset is ignoring the the voices sometimes inside your head that tell you you can't. That fear, if you will, that creeps in and that voice that comes on and says, I can't do this. You know, I retired. I I no idea. I can't do this. My first interview, I meet zero qualifications for this job. I can't do this, and here we are.
SPEAKER_00Yeah, it's not who you identified with interviewing for that position. You had your old identity in your brain thinking that achievement's not possible doing something else. Yeah. That's what I think about with that event is achieving success in the next chapter is possible, and we're gonna show you how to do it. That's really what they were saying. Yeah.
SPEAKER_01And we're gonna be open and honest with you. We're gonna provide you with that feedback right here on the spot. We're gonna provide you with the feedback that you do meet the criteria for this job. You do your soft skills and your some of your hard skills do translate into what the mission of our business is and what's outside the gate.
SPEAKER_00And that was one of the coolest things to see, you know, eyes light up when they were told, you are an interest to my company because of this, this, and this. Meanwhile, the military member was like, huh, never even thought about that. So they were translating skills live, real time, people standing up, putting themselves in a scenario, answering questions, and I could see this the switch flip in their head right away. Like, okay, I'm getting it. I see it now from a different perspective. Not just an Air Force leader or a lieutenant or a sergeant, like I see it from a Mr. or Mrs. perspective that I have these skills to succeed outside the gate. You saw it, their faces lit up.
SPEAKER_01Yeah. Some next chapters were were titled at least at that event.
SPEAKER_00Started for sure. And and some of the folks, they were a year or more out from separation, but I guarantee they are setting themselves up better than some of their peers and some of the other people that are gonna retire separate at the same time.
SPEAKER_01Yeah.
SPEAKER_00Because, I mean, we saw it. People, I don't think, took the career change or the exiting the military as serious as some others, and maybe thought it was gonna be easier than it was. I don't know, but you could tell these folks were ready to get a head start on their transition.
SPEAKER_01You're exactly right. The things that we didn't know, this event sheds that light. This event opened those eyes. The great great thing that I saw too was an airman get up and sharing their story or whatever, and this is what they bring. And literally the civilian folks that were in the room that are potentially gonna hire them say, I never thought about that. I never thought to handle you know to do things that way, or I never thought about that mindset. That mindset fits that fits into my company. How? Who knows? But it fits.
SPEAKER_00Yeah, man. I mean, like I said, kudos to that organization, kudos to the organization that brought them to Tucson and made it happen.
SPEAKER_01The next chapter just is on the next page, right? Yeah, the next page of life. You can close a chapter and start a new one.
SPEAKER_00That's that's great advice for anybody listening, military or civilian. Yep.
SPEAKER_01It's got nothing to do with that. Your next chapter is starting a business that you had no plan to start a business. My next chapter is starting a new new opportunity on the other side of the country. That I had no plans to start, but they're there.
SPEAKER_00And you know what? We're past the point of being afraid to do something different. And if it doesn't go good, oh well. I'll regret it more not trying and going after it than it failing. And not to say that I'm setting it up for that, but it's always a possibility. You know, we're totally rolling the dice on this. We're doing our research, we're talking to people that are doing it right now. We're setting this up as best as we possibly can. But I think what stops people from doing stuff like this is the fear of failure. Don't be afraid. Roll the dice. Go out and get it. You'll have more regrets at the end of your life that you didn't do it or you didn't try it than going after it. And guess what? What if it does succeed? That's the other perspective.
SPEAKER_01Yeah. What if? What if I fail at this? Cool. What lessons did you learn? What if I succeed at this? Cool. What lessons did you learn?
SPEAKER_00Yeah, what do I gain from this? Man, this was uh I was excited for this episode to record. There was just so much that was in my head that I've been trying to jot down notes like, oh, this, this, and this. And even the next couple episodes, I'm really excited. Great conversation. Great to be back in the studio recording. And can't wait to hit the next two up.
SPEAKER_01Oh yeah, brother. Good time.
SPEAKER_00Alright, man.
SPEAKER_01Hey, thanks for listening. If this episode challenged you, good. Leadership without the uniform isn't loud, it's daily, it's quiet, it's built in a small decision. No one else needs. This is your reminder to reclaim it. Reclaim your standards, reclaim your discipline, reclaim your responsibility at home, at work, and in your own life. No one is coming to assign your next mission. The next chapter is built by the person you choose to be tomorrow morning. We'll see you next week.