More Than Muscle: What Fitness Actually Builds

What does fitness really build?

In this episode, we sit down with a retired military veteran, fellow F45 coach, and IPE Pro Natural Bodybuilder to go deeper than workouts, macros, and aesthetics.

Because fitness was never just about looking good.

It’s about discipline when no one’s watching.
 It’s about standards that don’t disappear when the structure does.
 It’s about building a body that supports your life—not one that takes it over.

We talk about the transition from military fitness to civilian life, what bodybuilding teaches at the highest level, and what we see every day coaching people who either change… or stay stuck.

This conversation isn’t about doing more.
 It’s about doing what matters—consistently.

If you’ve ever struggled to stay on track, lost your routine after a major life shift, or questioned what “being fit” even means anymore… this one’s for you.

Key Topics:

•  Training for life vs training for a test 
•  Discipline beyond external accountability 
•  Lessons from natural bodybuilding 
•  What separates those who change from those who don’t 
•  Fitness as a tool for identity, not just appearance 

Takeaway:
Your body is the asset—but it’s also the proving ground for everything else in your life.

OperationNextChapter@gmail.com

Transcript

SPEAKER_03 0:00

We talk about this over and over and over again. We have the ability to make the changes that are needed to build success in our own lives. And JJ's hitting it. You know, you go through some things that may or may not be positive or whatever. And he made the change. He decided right then I need to make this change. And he did it. Was it easy? Probably not. Did it work? Sounds like it.

SPEAKER_01 0:33

Welcome to Operate the Next Chapter. We're Mark Nicole, retired Air Force First Sergeant. And this season is about leadership without the uniform. Because eventually the rank comes off, the structure changes, and no one is giving you orders anymore. So who are you when no one is telling you who to be? This season is about reclaiming your standards, your discipline, and your role as a leader at home, at work, and in your own life. The next chapter is in its time. It's built. Let's get to work.

SPEAKER_02 1:10

Life has happened. We've had a reschedule. We've had a guest on the docket for a while now. All of us have had things come up that we've had to reschedule, but we're here. We got uh another veteran. I thought this would be a great episode to talk about health in general, fitness, and life. As much as we talk about planning and discipline, leadership, purpose, success, I wanted this man to be part of that conversation and part of Operation Next Chapter. From working with him for the last six months, we've gotten known each other pretty well, and I wanted to have him on and bring another perspective. Although it is army perspective, we'll still allow it.

SPEAKER_00 2:00

Thank you for that.

SPEAKER_03 2:02

Yeah, we're forgiving on that army thing, but you know, whatever. No, this I'm excited, dude. This is this is awesome. It's always good to have somebody else to come on and share from their perspective, uh, which as we found out here in the past with the past couple uh folks, um it's ironic how everything kind of coincides. Absolutely.

SPEAKER_02 2:25

And everybody has a fresh, different perspective. But JJ Willis, welcome to the show. Give the listeners just the 30-second version. Who's JJ Willis? And what do you bring to this conversation?

SPEAKER_04 2:42

So I'm uh JJ Willis. I'm a retired Army veteran. Did 23 years in the Army as an engineer. So the best way I describe being an army engineer, it's like being a left tackle in the NFL. Nobody knows you when you're doing your job, right? But if you mess up one time, the spotlight is clearly on you. So that's kind of um what it's like. Outside of that, I'm a natural bodybuilder. I currently work for F-45 as a small group fitness instructor. Um, I'm a father, a brother, all of those things. So, you know, try to be pretty well-rounded.

SPEAKER_02 3:21

Multiple identities. I like it. We just recorded a couple episodes that were talking about identity, and I like that you mentioned several of those. You're not just retired Army Sergeant JJ Willis, you're not just a coach, you're not just a dad, you're all those things. And that's what I learned from you working together Friday mornings, baby. This conversation is not just about lifting weights, it's more about how fitness and a healthy lifestyle affects our entire life. And that's what I want to talk about with you is if you were to tell somebody the most basic advice from your professional experience as a coach and a bodybuilder, how could you sum that up in terms of how doing what you do, fitness and lifting weights, is more than just the physique?

SPEAKER_04 4:25

So for me personally, it's how I keep myself grounded. Um, so like the genesis behind like like we really take my fitness series. It started because I was going to behavioral health. And um, you know that you know how you go in there like, oh yeah, we're gonna give you all this medication, but not necessarily listen to what's going on. Um, so I sat inside the office and I was like, I don't want any more meds, I just need an outlet for these things to go, you know. So all cards on the table. I am a recovering alcoholic, right? So I used to, I was a functional alcoholic, so it would never affect my like work life, but it was definitely becoming a problem. So I needed another channel to put that energy. Um so I left the behavioral health counselor, and then I went straight to the gym, and then I've just found my answer right there. Like it's been here the whole time. Instead of um letting it manifest something negative, I could channel that energy into something positive, and I just took the ball and kind of ran with it.

SPEAKER_02 5:24

So when you went to the gym, was that something fresh? Or were you already doing it, or did was it something you added?

SPEAKER_04 5:32

Oh, so it was something that I've always done. Like I've always been into lifting ever since I was like an early like teenager, but it was just like having like the purpose behind it. So I would always just go, just like, oh, you know, something it's something to do. But then I was like, okay, I need a like a healthier way for this excess energy to go. You know, some people like they get like motorcycles, sport bikes, or you know, they'll start really getting into like guns and all those kind of things.

SPEAKER_02 5:59

Well, that was the gym for me. How did the link happen? Like, what what was that trigger that said, okay, this is my outlet now, even though I've been doing this, what connected the dots for you?

SPEAKER_04 6:11

Um, really, it was just a friend was like, and like, what are you training for? I was like, you know, I don't have a good answer for you. I just know that when I come in here, I can spend an hour or two, um, and then when I leave, I feel much better, right? And then when, you know, when you're suffering from the uh depression and PTSD and all those things, a lot of it, you just have to have a place for that energy to go. Because you spend so much time in that fight or flight mode that it just it has to have some place to go to for your own like health and keep yourself centered and you know without spazzing out on the people around you.

SPEAKER_02 6:48

Yeah, that makes sense, and I'm glad you you know started from the beginning of how you even got into this, because I think that's important for people that we coach, we gotta have a why. And your why was deep, right? Some people's whys are lose weight, some people's uh get out of uh funk or just feel better, get motivated. What about you, Cole?

SPEAKER_03 7:14

It's funny you hit that because I actually work in behavioral health, right? And that's one of my I work on military units and I I'm directly connected, I travel around to the bases. Um but that's one of the things that that I get feedback from the folks that that go to the hospital and seek treatment. Number one, awesome that you you know you seek treatment because sadly a lot of people don't. But the realization you came to was I don't want all these meds, I want to do this myself. What does that look like for you as far as doing it yourself and the you know, all the great things with the gym, the endorphin rush and everything else that comes in, and just that. What does that look like for you? And what did it look like most most importantly back then?

SPEAKER_04 8:06

So, like even joining the military. So before I joined, like I didn't have that discipline, right, and that structure, and that was the missing component. So even as a kid, like I would always thrive doing sports, but then like outside of that is where I could, you know, kind of veer left when I'm just left to my own devices a little bit. You know, fast forward the clock after 23 years, I'm so used to like I do very regimented, like right down the line. It gives me something now to where, okay, I wake up, I've done one thing successful no matter what, get a win under my belt. So even if it's something small, like even if I just walk in the morning for 30 minutes, or if I you know go a really tough training session, I can say, okay, I I did something, you know, kind of like that speech that make your bed speech. That's my version of making my bed. I start every day with a win. So even if like I have the worst day ever, I can go back. Well, at least, you know, for 30 minutes, an hour, I did something successful, and I can, you know, check that block.

SPEAKER_02 9:12

So are you saying that you have a daily routine or habits, small things done daily that set up your day for success? Yeah, absolutely.

SPEAKER_04 9:23

Uh, so there was a quote in the RB said, It's not the most important thing we do every day, but it's the most important thing we do every day. And I kind of took that and run and ran with it. You know, if you can keep yourself grounded and channel that, it gives you just those fleeting moments, like especially when there's a whole lot of things you can't control, right? So, like right now, I don't have any control over the gas prices, that's beyond my scope. Um, I don't have any control over like the potholes in the streets, can't control any of that. But I can control, I wake up, I let me do this one thing for me, and then let everything else fall into its place. And then you hit on something really important, which is like having the why. I would always tell the soldiers, it would be like you wouldn't do land nav without a compass, right? If I were to send you out into the woods and just say, hey troop, I want you to go find these points. Without a map, a compass, a protractor, you would never find it. You just wander around and every now and again you would stumble on some success, but for the most part, you take a lot of losses. Where if you can alright, now I know exactly I have a clear roadmap where I'm going to clearly identify goal and makes your job a whole lot easier. Cole, are you hearing what I'm hearing?

SPEAKER_02 10:42

It's like everything we have ever talked about on this podcast, he just said in 45 seconds.

SPEAKER_03 10:51

Dude, we're either smart or what we're saying is applicable. What we're what we've talked about over and over, it's the little things. It's the having the right skills that you already possess to go do the job that's in front of you. Whatever that looks like, it's there. It's within you. You have to make the choice. And JJ hit it. You're right. 45 seconds, he just summed up. So I don't know if we want to cancel the podcast from now on or if we want to keep doing this, because like I said in the beginning, the applicability that we have seen and that we have experienced, both in the things that we do in life and the things that other folks that have come on here, it pays dividends. You just have to do it.

SPEAKER_02 11:39

Yeah, and uh JJ, uh I know we've talked about uh this podcast, and I've kind of given you a little heads up about it, but to reiterate, uh we started this to help people transition from the military to civilian life. How does uh being fit in the military where it was required, how does that translate into just passing a test or being prepared for combat? How does that compare to being prepared for life as a civilian?

SPEAKER_04 12:10

So I just want to go back a little bit. Something you you really hit on is that identity, right? So for a long time I was that guy. I was like, I am the epitome of everything army, and that consumed my identity, right? To the point to where so many other things would fall by the wayside because you know I was mission first, everything else, like if my relationships, kids, everything is out is secondary to the what I have to do in the army, and the what I ended up working because like now I started noticing that a lot of these components they weren't functioning, so I had to step out and be like, okay, let me broaden my scope instead of just fixating on like you know that 50-meter target, like you know, I got the 75 meters, there's a 200-meter target, there's other things that I need to have the bandwidth to control. And um, so stepping out of that, I was like, all right, you know, how can this make me not only a more effective leader, but just a more effective like person, right? Being um an NCO, that was a part of who I am, but it wasn't the sum of everything else. So, yeah, I'm a father, uh, I'm a friend, I'm a brother. I have to be able to, you know, juggle all of these things at one time. And it took a long time for me to learn how to do it, but then you know, as like everything else, where you get more reps, and you're like, okay, now I can find a little bit more of that balance, and then you know, after separating, so you know, I'm sure like I was like everyone else. Oh, you know, as soon as I take this uniform off, I'm going to the beach, I'm kicking my feet up, and I'm not gonna be able to do anything. That lasted like a week, and I was like, all right, I have to to you know get my involved in something else, and that's how I ended up at F-45, and it just so happened that I had uh this particular skill set that I developed in the army was a perfect fit going into this new endeavor. So I find that a lot of the members, they're not necessarily, you know, you get some that are one like I want you to give me like the technical components on how to do it clean, but most of them just want a motivator, they want you to show in there, and you know, I want you to bring the best of me out, and I'm like, okay, I can do this. I've been doing it for 23 years, you know. I've been, hey, private. All right, now you're a window licker, but in five years, I can see where you can be, and it's the same with the members of F-45. They come in on day one, might be like, oh, I've never worked out before in my life, can't do a push-up, can't do anything, and then four months later, you're like, you know, hey, you're doing so much better now. Look at where you are, and then again, stacking those wins and continuing on with that journey. And that's the biggest part of the process that I enjoy the most, is watching that growth and watching, like, okay, somebody who was not confident, like the highlight of my day is like sometimes I see somebody like, oh, I can't do a box jump, and like, oh, you can do it. You just you don't know, no, that you can't, you don't believe that you can, and then when they do it, oh, I did have it in me the whole time. You're like, see?

SPEAKER_02 15:20

Yeah, and I love that. It's interesting to hear you say a lot of the things that we have discussed in previous episodes. It's actually very comforting because now I know we're not crazy, but bringing you on and having you give a perspective from a coming from the army to being a coach and a natural bodybuilder, what does it look like when, or what does discipline look like when no one is watching you? Like how can we translate that to somebody that might be listening and looking to get into fitness or start working out or lose weight, whatever it is? How do you motivate somebody to do it for themselves and not necessarily for the look that they want people to see?

SPEAKER_04 16:02

Like for some people, like they can be motivated by something superficial, like you can, but it probably won't last very long because you tend to want to put it on like speed, right? So you're like, oh, well, I haven't gotten shredded in six weeks, so you know the program doesn't work. Not understanding that you know, being right like 75-80% of the time for an extended amount of time, which is gonna make you successful, right? It's like, you know, remember when we when we first joined, and we're like, man, I'm an E1, I'm never gonna be to the top, and then you fast forward a couple years, like, oh man, I'm an E7, or I'm finally I'm I'm a first sergeant now, and you look back, you're like, oh, how did how did I even get here? And you realize, you know, I I did it in the moment, you didn't feel like you were outperforming all of your peers because you weren't doing anything crazy, but you were just like, oh, you know, I was slowly accumulating a bunch of positives, and eventually everything, you know, fell into place. But because we only, you know, we're fixed in on you know what's right in front of us, we don't kind of expand our to our periphery our peripheral and see everything that's going on, right? So I guess the you know, my roundabout way of getting there is that you know we we focus on those small things, but when you smoke on those small things every day, then the big picture becomes a whole lot easier to focus on.

SPEAKER_03 17:34

Are you saying that doing small things consistently pays off? Yeah, 100%. We must be geniuses. No, I'm still a dumb aircraft maintenance guy. True. But life lessons show through. Doing small things consistently every single day builds a routine, is a recipe for success. That's what I'm hearing.

SPEAKER_04 17:59

No, I I agree 100%. If again, if you you know, like, alright, every day I have a like I have a plan, right? So like it would always blow my mind where people who just like I wake up, I have no idea what's going on. Right? This I'm gonna shoot everything from the hip, no plan, I'm just gonna figure it out as I go. Like, I fear for that. Like when I'm around those kind of people, they make me nervous because I'm like, oh man, this is crazy. Because I'm like, all right, we gotta make sure we got the primary, we got the secondary, we got a contingency, and we got our emergency. Like that pace plan will always be in place. Why? Because I know things happen, and you can mitigate a lot of foolishness by pre being prepared, you're not gonna be prepared for everything, but if you are mindful that, oh, you know, things can't happen, I can kind of build in, you know, those uh guardrails to make sure that I increase my chances of being successful.

SPEAKER_00 18:54

Cole, you might have just been replaced as the co-host since you're moving to Florida. I I'm sensing that. No, I'm joking.

SPEAKER_02 19:09

I am blown away of how you are saying the same things that we've said, and we had zero coordination of how this was gonna go. But I love it that you're repeating the things that people need to hear because you're obviously successful, and this is what you've done to reach that pinnacle.

SPEAKER_03 19:33

Am I crazy? No, Mark didn't even send me notes on this one. This is just an or organic, literally, conversation. JJ has hit from the beginning. He went through some stuff, realized some stuff, and changed some stuff to get to where he's at right now. We talk about this over and over and over again. We have the ability to make the changes that are needed to build success in our own lives. And JJ's hitting it. You know, you go through some things that may or may not be positive or whatever, and he made the change. He decided right then I need to make this change. And he did it. Was it easy? Probably not. Did it work?

SPEAKER_04 20:23

Sounds like it. No, I agree. I think that's the beauty of being a service member. Because there's so many instances where we're forced to go outside of our comfort zone, work with people from like different backgrounds, different beliefs, but we still have to find a common ground in order to make it work. And it's not like we get an option, but like, listen, all right, I don't care where you're from, you have to work together in order to get the mission done, and if not, the mission is gonna fail. And that gives you a particular set of skills that can sets you apart from like the average citizen, right? So, like, not to say that we're above civilians, but a civilian experience versus a service member's experience is completely different, especially when you get to those senior positions. When you're in front of a company, right, I have anywhere from 50 to 250 to 300 troops, and I have to be able to stand out in front of them confidently and have them believe that the decisions I'm making are gonna benefit them for their welfare and the overall good of the unit. And in order to do that, you have to be alright, I have to be up here because I remember when I was like a young private, and I would look and be like, alright, that guy's not credible. How are you gonna discipline me when you're not disciplined, right? You're telling me to shave and you have a beard all the weekend, like all those little small things, and I would always take notes, and I would bank those, and I'll be like, all right, when I get in your position, I'm not gonna be anything like that. Because I know that at the end of the day, like credibility may. A lot. Like if you stand out in front of your formation, like you have to get them to believe in you. Um, I would always tell like my young NCOs, even if you're wrong, right, have that be a confident wrong. Like a soldier will run through a wall for you if he believes that you're telling me this for a good reason. And on the flip side, if you tell them some sound information, if it's shaky, unconfident, they're gonna be like, I don't believe you. Why do I believe that this shoots a 556? Nine mil rounds go in my M4. That's what it is, because you didn't say it confident, and that's what they're gonna believe, as opposed to like, alright, I'm telling you, true, right now, you need to do it this way. I promise you're gonna get a good result. Why because I've been there, I've done that, and I can prove it to you. And when they can see those receipts, that's what the young people say. Got those receipts, have those receipts that I'm not I'm willing to, you know, to suck with you and do all those things. Even in the studio, like I'll get down with members, I'll do burpees, I'll do all of them because I'm not I'm not afraid to put myself from your perspective and see it because I know you know what it's like. I can't, you know, teach you, coach you, mentor you if I haven't been through it or am unwilling to at least try it myself.

SPEAKER_02 23:18

Yeah, and sometimes a bad decision is better than no decision.

unknown 23:21

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 23:21

Like people want leaders to make decisions, right? And you reinforced the whole purpose of this podcast is military folks bring something to the civilian side that they don't realize they bring. And so it's people like us helping them understand what they bring and help them bring it out of themselves, right? That's what you have said in a roundabout way, but that's what we talk about is how we can affect change or affect people leaving the service coming into the civilian side because we talked about how we struggled on the outside, right? That transition, I still say I'm in transition, but it was one of the hardest things we've ever had gone through. What was your transition like?

SPEAKER_04 24:05

Like the hardest thing for me was realizing how little civilians care about their profession versus how much we care about our profession. When I first started coming to F-45, I was like, maybe I might have come in a little too hot because you know that's the background I was coming from. I was like, you know, I wake up every day. It's Army, Army, Army. Let's let's go. You know, let's let's get motivated. And then when I showed up, I'm like, you know, why is everybody, you know, kind of laid back about this? I'm like, let's get hyped up, we're working out, we're doing it. And you know, so I had to kind of pull back a little bit, be like, all right, we understand, you know, this is the audience, I gotta meet them where they are, and then you know, kind of bring them up. So that was like the hardest part for me, is just finding, like, alright, you know, you're not a green suitor anymore. You know, you can't come in a hundred miles per hour with a knife hand, like, yeah, it's gonna be like this. You gotta, all right, a little bit more finesse, and like, hey, you know, we're doing great. Come on, let's go. You got this.

SPEAKER_03 25:15

As Air Force guys, we would say throttle back. Pull the throttle back to accomplish the same mission. Changing your perspective, changing your delivery probably was another piece to it, right? You know, you mentioned knife handing, and that worked for 23 years in the army, right? Doesn't necessarily translate to the civilian side of the life. So recognizing that and adjusting uh is what breeds success. When we can recognize that what we're doing may or may not have the right effect and then change course. Ironic, the next chapter is can be a successful chapter, but you have to write it and continue.

SPEAKER_04 26:01

Oh, yeah, I agree with all of that. It's just like you said, being able to uh read the room, being self-aware, right? Just like, all right, recognizing because even when I was in the army, like there was an adjustment. Like I had a first sergeant, he was one of my mentors, he would tell me, Willis, you a good NCO, but you're a field NCO. And I was like, What does that mean? They were like, Anybody anybody can tell a soldier to shoot, move, and communicate. But can you take care of them in garrison? Can you make sure their family's take care of? Can you do all of those things? And at the time I was offended because I didn't understand what he was saying. But he was saying, like, no, open your eyes, right? There's more to soldiering than just shooting stuff, right? There's also, are they well-rounded? Are your soldiers in college? What are they doing to prepare themselves for their separation? Are you giving them SFL tab time? Do they know about all of these programs? It forced me to have to get more into it and understand that, like, okay, you know, these things are just as important. So I made it a point that when soldiers started separating, that I made sure that hey, they're untouchable, they're filled up with appointments, they're filled up with uh transition classes, the all of those things signing up for school, making sure that they are set up so that way their transition can be a lot smoother. Because there was a time where they didn't care what your transition like nobody told you about going to the VA, nobody told you any of those things. You just be like, all right, here's your DD 214, here's a handshake, good luck to you, and that's unfortunate because like now it sees you know we got a lot big of a homeless veteran population, a lot of those things because nobody took them. How what can I give you this information and kind of mentor you and help you along with that process? And I'm grateful that when I was my turn to go, that I had people looking out for me that were like, hey, these are all the things that you need to do to make sure that you are ready, right? And then have that support system. And then I was fortunate, you know, to meet gentlemen like you and uh you know have a good group of co-workers that I have now that made that a lot easier because we came from similar backgrounds, whether it be law enforcement, military, so we share those core values, and that was definitely helpful. So I couldn't imagine like just going out into the wild by myself without having uh people around me that kind of understand exactly what I was going through.

SPEAKER_02 28:40

Man, that's so important on the transition from military to civilian life. And as two former first sergeants, Cole and I can totally relate to you about what you were just talking about with taking care of your soldiers, us taking care of our airmen outside of just the primary duty. Like you said, them as a person, their families, their well-being. And when I retired, well, both of us retired, we kind of lost that purpose in life because we were so used to leading people and taking care of people, and then we figured out on the outside that companies don't care about their people like we did in the military, right? More than the investment that we had in them financially, spiritually, mentally, physically, but that was what we struggled with. So what I'm getting at is you going to coaching was a natural fit because it goes in line with what you did as a senior listed leader just into a more specific fitness industry. How can you explain how fitness builds more than muscles?

SPEAKER_04 29:54

So like a lot of what we've been talking about is giving you discipline and structure, right? So, like the primary people that I like to preach to are young men. Because, like, right now, it just appears that young men in general just lack that discipline, right? So you hear like, oh, like toxic masculinity, like all these like weird like things. But what that does is it kind of takes that those things away from young men, right? So a lot of young men are just running around here, they don't have that purpose, direction, or motivation, and then they're not looking to mentors that are like, hey, I can, you know, I can get you this. So a prime example is um my goddaughter. So I we had a family barbecue, and I'm talking to her boyfriend. I'm like, you know, what you know, what what do you do what are you doing during life? What do you plan on doing? You know, you're in your early 20s, you're in good shape, you're not in school. What's the what's the plan? So I pulled up um you know a thick uh uh flyer for the border patrol, like border patrol, they offering like $50,000 bonus, like a good opportunity. So I'm like, you thought about applying? He's like, uh, I don't want to join the border patrol. I don't want people telling me what to do. I was like, wherever you go, somebody's gonna tell you what to do. Even if you opened up a business, the city of Tucson is gonna be like, hey, you can't do X, Y, and Z. You can't even open a business. How about that? Or we're shutting you down. So there's no place you're gonna go where you can, you're just the 100% absolute boss. Place doesn't exist. So you need to figure something out that's gonna get you to where you're going. I'm not saying it had to be permanent, but at 22, you're gonna tell me you can't use $50,000, you can't use medical benefits right now. You have none of that, and you're gonna argue with me and tell me that, oh, okay, having no plan is better than having a solid plan. You know, what do I know? So, anyway, so after we're arguing about all of this, I'm just like, again, showing the receipts. I'm like, look where I'm at. I said, I have I'm comfortable, you know, I don't I don't go to sleep worried about going to the hospital. I I get sick, cool. You know, I all my bills are always paid. I I don't have those kind of stressors, and I would want you to get to that as opposed to okay, what's the next shortcut that I can get through? And then if you tie it in the fitness, fitness industry is a lot of the same way. People are like, oh, a lot of the members come up. I want to how can I look like you? I'm like, you it took me a long time. Like I didn't just fall out of bed, like, oh the games just came. Started two weeks ago. Like, no, it was doing this for a long lifestyle, right? Doing it for a long time and keep it going. And uh the crazy thing was, like, I didn't start looking like this till I was in my late 30s. Like I was always in shape, but I didn't like get all the way in shape until I was like 36. Like it took me a long time to really be like, all right, let me push some of this unnecessary stuff to the wayside and really, you know, funnel that in. So if I was advising young men like right now, I would tell him, like, get with the program, get disciplined. I mean, not just physically disciplined, financially disciplined, spiritually disciplined, don't go chasing women, alcohol, doing all these things that aren't important, and just stay on, like, okay, a path that is healthy and purpose-driven, and I guarantee you, you're gonna reap a lot of those benefits long term, even if you can't see it. You look at now, it's already June. That's half the year is gone, and the amount of people that I know that made no progress because they were complaining all year, just sitting on Facebook whining and complaining about things like you can't you can't control that. If you had a magic wand to open the Strait of Hormuz, it would be open, but that ain't you. So, what are you gonna do about it? You gonna cry or you gotta figure something out? And most people, it's been my experience, aren't in the business of figuring things out. They're just like, all right, well, there's a problem. Okay, duly noted. Well, now what's next?

SPEAKER_02 34:28

Yeah, it's that 80-20 rule, man. I 100% believe that you can apply that to everything in life. And like you were saying, I feel like health and fitness is like the foundation for the rest of your life and everything that goes on in our life. It ties everything together. If you have that together, most likely you're gonna have your finances together, you're gonna have your marriage together, you're gonna have your career together. That's what I was getting at. The spillover of having that discipline and confidence and resilience spills over into all those other areas of life. It's more than having a fantastic physique or muscles, and it's a great thing to have. But it's much more than that. And that's why this episode was fitness is more than fitness.

SPEAKER_04 35:20

The biggest thing that my catchphrase, I guess you could say, is easy work. So people are like, why does he say easy work all the time? So I was in Sappho school and uh I'm struggling. Like, you know, I have one of those times where I'm like mentally, I'm like, I'm done. Alright. I'm leaning up against a tree, and in my mind, that tree feels like a queen-size bed with the good pillows. I'm like, oh, all I gotta do is tell Kadre, hey, I'm out of here. And then uh this young man, this young cat, man, he comes by, he's got cratery charges, he's got a 240, he can't weigh any more than 120 pounds, maybe. And he just runs by and he's like, it's easy work, big source, easy work. And I was like, you know what? You're right. If you can do this, I let me get it together. And I just snapped out of it. And like, just in that moment, I was like, you're right. There's nothing that I'm doing that is really that hard. They seem like it, but in the big picture, this is nothing, right? There's people there's people with no legs who got it way worse than me, who out there figuring it out, making the way. So I know as long as I can breathe, I can walk, I got two arms, two legs, I can figure it out from there. Like, as long as I got that, then I got a puncher's chance at anything life can throw at me. And you brought up the biggest thing is being the resiliency. Everybody can handle successes, but it's like, alright, when you catch those body blows, and you're like, alright, life is you know kicking me in the teeth right now, but can I get up tomorrow and be like, I got it together, we're gonna be okay. Because just like when we're in the military, right? Where you've got soldiers and the rest of your unit looking at you to figure it out. If you got a family, they're looking at you the same way. Imagine that you know, if your family saw you fall all to pieces and not be able to pick it up. That's gonna affect wife, kids, everything around you. So you gotta be like, alright, let me pick myself up and you know, get my head back in the game. And like a lot of those tools for being disciplined. Now, I don't want to make it seem like I don't want people listening to me like, oh yeah, like you just wake up, like, oh, you just got, you know, you come equipped with a circ, a certain amount of suck it up and drive on. It resiliency takes practice, but it is something that you've got to hone because at the end of the day, nobody's coming to save you. I know that much. Like, if you wait for somebody to be like, oh yeah, I got you, here's your life rap, like nah. You better get your toolbox open and start building your own and figure a way to get out if you wanna if you wanna make it. And that's just the truth.

SPEAKER_02 38:09

Cole, what I heard him say out of all of that mindset. 100%.

SPEAKER_03 38:16

And control. And you have it. You can control you. That's what you can control. Your mindset. 100%.

SPEAKER_02 38:26

Alright, JJ. I love where this conversation has gone. And for the people that know you, that may listen to this, they know you, they know like you said it, like, how can I look like you? But more than just your physical appearance, what are some practical takeaways for people that just need to get started, whether it's in fitness, in life, career, no matter where they're at in life, what is like your best advice for the first step to take?

SPEAKER_04 39:03

The biggest advice I give everyone is stop spending so much time in the planning phase. And you gotta get to the execution, right? Because you sometimes you overplan, and then once you overplan, then you start to overthink things, and then you overcomplicate things. I'm sure when you were starting the podcast, like the first episode, you're like, I don't even know how we're gonna do it. Just throw some headphones on, but then you just send it, and then with time, you alright, it became better. And that's with everything in life, is like overcoming like that first fear, right? When you're like a toddler, alright, so you grab the table, you're like, okay, I can stand up. And then once you take that first like two or three steps, you fall down, but then you got it. You're like, okay, same thing with it was with riding your bike, and that's what everything in in life is like that taking that first step and just doing it. And it's like, alright, I'm done, I'm ready to execute. Whether I'm successful or not, I'm just gonna take the step and stop, you know, letting like that fear of failure paralyze. So the rule I live by, I don't know, maybe it might be kind of reckless is I've got a 50-50 shot no matter what. Either it's gonna work or it's not. You know, at the end of the day, that's that's the true outcomes. That's it. Boom.

SPEAKER_00 40:22

Dude, mic drop.

SPEAKER_03 40:24

You know, take the first step.

SPEAKER_02 40:28

Take the first step. Or what do you think is the most underrated habit?

SPEAKER_04 40:36

Now, as being older in my uh mid-40s, sleeping in recovery. Like the ability to just decompress, right? You know, whether that's meditating or reading a book going on outside. So one thing I've recently started doing is I'll go outside and walk, but with like no headphones, like really like let nature hear the birds and hear those things. Because uh we're so like bombarded with stimulation nowadays that we don't really get those moments where, like, all right, let me just be immersed in the world around me. So I do that to keep myself grounded. So I definitely think that it's just being able to like, you know what? I'm gonna take a step back, relax, kick my feet up, and being okay with it. Doesn't mean you're lazy, doesn't mean any of those things. It means all right, I'm recovering, right? So even tying it back to like fitness, like I'll tell members that all the time. They were like, oh, why am I hurting? I'm how many days in a row have you trained? They were like, oh, I've gone every day for a month. So I'm like, oh, you know, it's kind of we just gotta throttle back. That's where we want to, that's what we want to do. We want to take our feet off the gas, right? We can't just go full self-destruct mode and think that, oh, we're just gonna keep going to the positive, you're just gonna burn yourself out. So it's okay to relax, recover, you know, it's alright.

SPEAKER_03 41:58

Say that louder for the people in the back.

SPEAKER_04 42:01

I know I've seen that guy, he's a beast. It's okay. When he gets in his zone, he's going.

SPEAKER_03 42:05

Yeah. It's okay to take that step back and plan that risk and recovery.

SPEAKER_02 42:10

Man, it it just is so compelling to hear you say the same things. You know, and I knew this was gonna be a great conversation, but I didn't realize how connected we were in the same mindset, the three of us, right? So you talked about underrated habit. What's an overrated trend? And again, it doesn't have to be fitness rate, it could be anything in life, but overrated as not doing us any or very little good in life. For me, it's shortcuts.

SPEAKER_04 42:44

There's no you can't cheat the system. Like you can try, but I don't care whether it's finances, spiritually, physically, and mentally, you have to do the work. You have to. So, you know, going back to talking about like the transition, I spent uh the the biggest part of my career like not taking that time to be like, man, you know, you were you accomplished a lot of cool things because I was always like, Oh, I gotta get to the next objective and don't take the time to um smell the flowers, and you gotta sometimes you gotta you gotta do that. You go, all right, oh, you know, well, I have done a lot. It's okay. I'm slowing down, I'm you know, gonna soak it in. So I would do that, like appreciate the journey, right? So I you know, I read a lot, so a lot of the things I'm immersed in is the hero's journey, right? Just fill in that story of like where you started, and then you read. Your full potential. I'm like, I'm big on that. You know, maybe it's because I'm from the 80s, so I go up watching like Rocky Balboa, and I can I can I've always been able to relate to that. Like, alright, you know what? We're gonna be hard, we're gonna get this out the mud, but we can do it. So, you know, maybe corny, but that's just how I look at things is that alright, you know, if we can attack it, we always got a chance. Yeah, the easy button. That's what people want. Yeah, it is. Yeah, they do everything. Chat GPT will fix it.

SPEAKER_03 44:30

Yeah, everything's easy, right? Um, what are your non-negotiables for each week?

SPEAKER_04 44:39

Or even daily.

SPEAKER_03 44:41

Yeah.

SPEAKER_04 44:41

So my non-negotiables is so I always start my day the same. Every day I do at least 30 minutes. So I will I'll walk and do 30 minutes. I don't have to lift weights every day, but I have to do something physical every day just you know to keep myself grounded. So whether that go for a walk or swim, I do something. I meditate, stretch, I do something every single day.

SPEAKER_03 45:10

Going back to your military, your body build bodybuilding. What does being fit mean to you now compared to in the military? Obviously, you still are the bot in bodybuilding.

SPEAKER_04 45:24

What does being fit mean? To me, being fit just means being it's balanced, it's having everything um being well-rounded. So you don't want that pendulum to swing too far in any direction, you want it to be like dead center. So whether it's swinging like, oh, wildly, where I'm going out and I'm smoking, I'm drinking bourbon every night, or this time where uh all I can do is the gym to the fact where I don't enjoy myself. You want to be like somewhere in the middle to where you're still enjoying life, but you're still taking those things. I think Mark hit on it living by that 80-20 rule, right? As long as you hit that 80-20, stay disciplined 80% of the time, 20% of the time, I'm gonna go out, let my hair down a little bit, and then I come back to center, and that's that's just a good way to live to live life. It's having that balance, being a well-rounded person.

SPEAKER_02 46:18

Yeah, we can't be perfect. No, it's impossible to do consistently and for the long term. There's gotta be a little moderation in our life, and I think when people think about health and fitness, it's one extreme or the other. But it's possible to enjoy life while still being healthy and fit. Oh, facts. Yeah, that's it. That's the key.

SPEAKER_04 46:43

Just like you said, are you enjoyable? Are you enjoyable to be around? So I remember prepping for my first show, and like that's when I was like, oh, anything outside of chicken and broccoli is like crazy. And I was like, no, nobody wants to be around a person like that. Well, yeah, that barbecue. Oh, I can't eat that. What is that? You make that? How many mud of the macros? Like, that's a crazy way to live. Yeah, like no, you don't want to do it, right? So you gotta be able to adjust and you know, adaptability, right? We have adaptability on the battlefield, life is no different, right? You gotta be able to show up and be able to adjust fire where you need to, so that way you can have a fulfilled life.

SPEAKER_02 47:23

Yeah, life is a battlefield, constantly throwing us wrenches.

SPEAKER_03 47:28

Yeah. So showing up to a barbecue with your own chicken and broccoli to showing up to a barbecue with dessert. Is that what I'm hearing at 8020? Right. Right? I'm just saying, I I I'm the least fit guy in the room, so I have to, you know, I have to throw this stuff out there. Well, true, but we like our ice cream.

SPEAKER_00 47:49

Yeah, we've discussed this. Uh yes. That's it. Uh Friday's burger day.

SPEAKER_04 47:55

Yes, sir.

SPEAKER_03 47:56

With the bun or without with the bun.

SPEAKER_04 47:59

The bun, the cheese, everything. Maybe even two of them.

SPEAKER_03 48:03

That's awesome. Can we put bacon on it?

SPEAKER_00 48:05

Yeah, for sure. Yeah, we talked about the bacon. It's gotta be like the candy bacon. Candy bacon, all the way. Oh, yeah.

SPEAKER_03 48:13

Alright, JJ. I appreciate your perspective, man. I appreciate everything that you've brought. It's different, but it's the same. It's sharing your story from where you were to where you've how you've built your routine and how you've built everything in. If someone here is listening right now and is stuck or feels stuck, what would you tell them to do to start tomorrow?

SPEAKER_04 48:41

So the biggest thing we've just talked about is just starting. Right? The worst thing that could happen is you fail and you're in the exact same spot. There's no harm, no foul in that, but you miss 100% of the shots you don't take. So you just come to the point where, like, alright, I'm just gonna get out there, I'm gonna do it, and I'm gonna figure the rest out. The first step, it's gonna be hard, but like Mark said, the hardest step is that first step, but it's the most important step, right? Just get it done.

SPEAKER_02 49:17

Yeah, doing nothing is the worst outcome. You're no better off. And a lot of times people just don't know what that first step is. It could be anything, it could be as simple as doing what you do. Go outside, start walking without your phone, without headphones. It's weird how things start coming to your brain and you get some mental clarity. That's just one example.

SPEAKER_04 49:41

Yeah, that's just one example. Just alright, I'm gonna do it. Today is the day, I'm gonna do it, and throw all caution to the wind because you'll you'll figure it out, right? You I think you're early in the conversation, you said it like the worst kind, like those leadership decisions, you're like, I'm looking for you to make a decision. You're just like, I can't. Just tell me what you want to do, and that what your brain is the same thing. Your brain's gonna give you a million and one reasons why I'm not gonna do it. But you just need one reason why to do it and just go for it.

SPEAKER_02 50:14

Yeah, maybe don't hit the snooze button. Maybe start, pick up a book. I mean, there's just so many things that can start the chain of events. Like you don't have to have the perfect plan. Just do something you haven't done before.

SPEAKER_04 50:30

Oh, for 100%. That's one of the things I've been seeing with the fitness industry in particular, is like, I don't know if you guys have heard of it, or people who are like trying to optimize like every single workout. Like, you can't. If you sit there and like, I'm just gonna fine-tooth everything and try to make sure everything is absolutely perfect, you're never gonna get there. There's gonna be some days where, like, yeah, I got it all, boom, I'm locked in. And there's gonna be other days where like I gotta just man up and grind it out. Okay, take those two, but just get out of your own head instead of like, okay, everything's gotta be perfect. I'm sure when you started this, that you probably just picked up your phone and were like, all right, I'm talking to the phone, figured out. You didn't come to do like, oh, I got mics, I got the studio space, I got everything set up. I'm sure it was everything was just learning on the fly.

SPEAKER_02 51:22

Dude, we talked about that in a couple episodes. It literally was that. We just started. Had no idea. I had a slight idea how to just to get going. And I reached out to a resource, a friend of ours that has a podcast. She helped me. But other than that, we sat here for the first recording and just looked at each other like, uh, well, I guess this is it. Let's start it. And like you said, it got better. But yeah, we just had to get started. And it's the same with fitness, it's the same with finances, it's the same in relationships. Just get started. Man, this is this conversation. I knew you would have a good perspective, a similar perspective. I'm looking at Cole this whole time like he's saying what we've said in all of our episodes. Like it just it blows my mind.

SPEAKER_03 52:16

Yeah, no, this has been great. I can't thank you enough. I appreciate your perspective. I appreciate you coming on, being open, being honest. And again, I appreciate the how it just flowed back and forth, and uh and Mark didn't give me notes, so it just worked.

SPEAKER_02 52:32

The vulnerability of telling how you started, how you got to the point you're at, is probably the key step because we've talked about this before where people think successful people, it just came, but they went through some hard stuff to get to where they are. You just didn't see it. But JJ is a prime example of that. I bet you not a lot of people knew or know about your struggles with alcohol or going to see get help. That means a lot because it shows you're human and you're not a machine, even though you look like one. That's the real raw talk that we have set ourselves up for on this podcast. We don't want no you know fake talk, we want genuine raw conversation and people to be able to relate to when they're listening to it. This is it. This was that conversation, one of those conversations.

SPEAKER_03 53:27

Spot on. Vulnerability builds connection. That's what we're trying to do here is build that connection.

SPEAKER_02 53:34

Yeah, JJ, we appreciate you. This is gonna go out in a couple weeks, but I think it's perfect timing. We just did the Murph a couple weeks ago. Like you mentioned, we're in June. The year is half over, but the year is not half over. You still have time to make change in this year. And this is midway. Maybe this was what somebody needed to hear to make 2026 their year. That's it.

SPEAKER_04 54:00

You gotta adjust, close it out strong. Oh, I appreciate you guys for having me on. Alright, y'all. Thanks for listening in. We'll talk to y'all soon.

SPEAKER_03 54:09

Oh yeah. Hey, thanks for listening. If this episode challenged you, good. Leadership without the uniform isn't loud. It's daily, it's quiet, it's built in the small decision that no one else needs. This is your reminder to reclaim it. Reclaim your standards, reclaim your discipline, reclaim your responsibility at home, at work, and in your own life. No one is coming to assign your next mission. The next chapter is built by the person you choose to be tomorrow morning. We'll see you next week.

SPEAKER_05 54:47

The center might be fun to five box.