So That...

Why do so many people quit on their goals?

Because they know what they want—but they've forgotten why they want it.

In this episode of Operation Next Chapter, Marc and Cole explore one of the simplest yet most powerful mindset shifts they've learned: "So that..." Inspired by a lesson from Dave Ramsey, this concept has transformed the way they approach finances, marriage, health, leadership, and life after military service.

Getting out of debt isn't the goal... it's so that you have freedom.

Improving your health isn't the goal... it's so that you can fully enjoy the life you've worked so hard to build.

When you connect your goals to a deeper purpose, you'll find the motivation to keep going long after the excitement wears off.

If you're feeling stuck, unmotivated, or wondering whether your hard work is really worth it, this episode will help you rediscover the reason behind your next chapter.

In this episode, you'll learn:

•  Why purpose outlasts motivation. 
•  How to uncover the deeper reason behind any goal. 
•  How the "So That" mindset applies to your finances, marriage, health, and leadership. 
•  A simple exercise to help you clarify what truly matters. 

Your next chapter doesn't begin with a better goal.

It begins with a better why.

🎙️ Subscribe, leave a review, and share this episode with someone who needs to reconnect with the purpose behind their goals.

OperationNextChapter@gmail.com

Transcript

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SPEAKER_00 0:00

We also continue to lean on God and put Him in our marriage so that we can maintain that strong marriage, so that we can maintain a strong foundation for our kids, so that we can maintain a strong foundation for us. And we have always put marriage first, period. But the overall theme of my life has been I want to make sure that Jenny's taken care of so that my marriage stays out.

SPEAKER_01 0:30

Welcome back to Operation Next Chapter. We're Mark and Cole, two retired Air Force First Sergeants, who share lessons on leadership, discipline, purpose, and life beyond the uniform. Whether you're transitioning from military service or simply navigating your next chapter, we're here to help you move forward with clarity and confidence. Let's get started.

SPEAKER_02 0:54

We wanted to do this podcast so that we could help other veterans into their next chapter from military service to civilian life. And I emphasized so that because that's the name of this episode. And the idea came to me from one single person, and both you and I and our wives, we have gone through Financial Peace University, which is a Dave Ramsey program. And we've talked about it a little bit in other episodes about how that program not just changed our lives financially, but changed our lives in our marriages, in our parenting, and our leadership. It's affected everything in our life today. And I wanted to kind of go into those two words because it stands out in my head. Like I can see him saying this, I can hear him saying these words. We got out of debt so that. And it goes back to having a why, a why financially, obviously, but this translates to more than just finances. And I remember when we would sit through that class and then we facilitate FPU, we have to emphasize the why. Because if we don't have a why, no matter what we're trying to do, well, it almost seems all for naught. So if you can add those two words to any problem we're facing in life, I want to lose weight, so that.

SPEAKER_00 2:42

Yeah. The why. The why in everything we do. Right? The why for changing my ways, the why is so for eating better, the why for it's so that I can live longer. It's so that I can be happier. It's so that I can serve more people. It's so that you know you finish, you answer the so that part. And you're right. Taking care of things so that I can, and you you finish it, so that Jenny and I can live a better life, so that the boys and I can, you know, X, Y, or Z. Well, where's the why? What's the why? Always look for your why because you're more apt to stick with the whatever task it is when you have that why behind it.

SPEAKER_02 3:26

Yeah. And, you know, I'll I'll kick off this episode with a story relating to money because that's really what drove this conversation. And I think I mentioned it before, Tiffany and I probably would not even be married if it wasn't for FPU and other counseling that we sought out to help us in our marriage. But a lot of the marriage problems were derived from money problems. And so we wanted to fix our finances so that we could stop living paycheck to paycheck. That's really what it came down to. We made really good money. We both worked full-time. You know, at the time, 10, yeah, 10, 2016, I think it was, you know, we were making 100 grand, which nowadays it's it's not a lot, but at that time, that's really comfortable income for a family of five. But we tended to not have any money when we needed it for groceries, gasoline, you know, kids' school, clothes, supplies, whatever it was. I would text Tiffany and be like, hey, we have uh $75 left. And we haven't even got groceries yet. And I remember her always asking, like, where why do we not have money? And so I started spelling it out for her because she kind of was hands-off as far as the money goes. I would have a kind of an idea where it was going, not really completely, but I knew what our bills were, I knew when they had to be paid, I knew how much it was, and then we started really digging into it, and we were just spending frivolously on eating out and things that we we didn't even know we were spending money on. That was the problem, right? I had heard of Dave Ramsey before, and she one day was at uh home and she saw a reel or some video about it, and she said, Hey, have you ever heard of Dave Ramsey? I'm at work. Yeah, I have. Like, this is I'm glad you found it. And that's what spurred it. So we signed up through the church, went to FPU, and we liked the class so much, it was a nine-week class, still is, that we completed that. We went back the next time it was offered, did it again because we missed things and we didn't know, but we took it a second time. And then we became facilitators both at the church and we were hosting the class at our house. And every time we'd facilitate it, we would catch new things. But that's why we got our finances in a row is because we were so tired of living paycheck to paycheck and not really having a plan at all. Our bills were paid, food on the table, and that's about the extent of it.

SPEAKER_00 6:03

Yeah, it's funny the similarities that that we and this is long before we knew each other, right? But you had a why. Right? You had a why to signing up. You were you were tired of having $75 in your account and not having bought groceries for your family of five. So you you took control of your finances so that you you you had a plan, right? You you had a plan for your money. Jenny and I took FPU, and I'm not gonna touch on finances, you know, like Mark did, but uh another way that having control of our finances has benefited us is in our marriage. You know, the stress that you don't have because you have the money is easy. I wanted a stronger marriage so that I can have a happy household for my kids to grow up in. Marriage is difficult. I I would argue that marriage is the hardest job I've ever had in my life. Marriage is also the most rewarding job that I've ever had in my life. And anybody who says it's 50-50 is I'm not gonna say that you don't have a successful marriage, but you you might be struggling because marriage is 100%. 100-100, gotta be. And we focused, you know, you've heard it. Jenny and I got married early, against the odds, if you will, 19 years old, we we knew what we wanted, and we made a commitment right then and there that we were gonna give everything we had to make the marriage successful. Period. And so does that mean we we haven't struggled? No, a couple episodes ago, you heard about the MS and the softball and everything else. Things have happened in my life to bring me back to that marriage and to bring me back to the table so that, again, so that I could recommit. We could stay together. We have been to many different marriage, I don't want to say counseling, marriage retreats so that we could we could learn new ways. You know, just like Mark said with financial peace and and teaching it, he learned something every time. And and you know, we have read books together, we have been to marriage retreats together, and every single time we have learned something new, something different, something that added a piece in to being successful and staying together. A lot of people told us being getting married at 19, that's I can't believe you did that. We continue to grow, we continue to educate ourselves, and we also continue to lean on God and put Him in our marriage so that we can maintain that strong marriage, so that we can maintain a strong foundation for our kids, so that we can maintain a strong foundation for us. And we have always put marriage first, period. Some people give me a hard time about, well, I don't make decisions, especially financial, any big decisions, without Jenny's console, because I want to be on the same page, and I have I've reaped the benefits of that, and I've reaped the benefits of continuing to put marriage first before self, even when I have slipped and fell and self is interjected. But the overall theme of my life has been I want to make sure that Jenny's taken care of so that my marriage stays strong.

SPEAKER_02 9:33

And it's crazy because those two subjects alone, money and marriage, reciprocate each other. They go hand in hand. The more that we got our money together, the better our marriage got because it forced conversations that we hadn't had or we were unwilling to have, maybe we were a little scared to have. And then also facilitating those classes brought us closer together, also because we were a team that was hosting these classes, and we related to the people, the students in the class, because they saw us as a sign of hope that well, if they did it, then we can do it. And we would share some personal details and some personal numbers just to show them that we've been where you are at. We have gone through what you're going through, and now we are teaching it because it made such an impact on our life and our marriage and our money, our kids, everything about it. And that was the main point we would make with people is everything in your life is going to get better when you get one or both of these things in order. For us, it was the money got put in order, and our marriage just was a benefit of that. And it wasn't even on purpose, it just happened. It was an unplanned benefit of getting our finances in order. It just I'm passionate about it because it just blows my mind when I think about it and all the things that we've gone through in the past 10, 12 years to get to this point in our marriage, our life got easier. We did the hard things, so our life got easier.

SPEAKER_00 11:22

Amazing how that works, isn't it? How everything is just intertwined, how everything works hand in hand. And when one thing is off, when one thing lets go, or when one finger starts slipping from that hand and starts, you know, releasing that grip, how everything tends to be harder. And everything tends to start to slip. Well, when you make that focus and you bring everything back, and you both come to the table willing to work, willing to have the hard conversations, the benefits, it's a ripple effect across every every part of your life.

SPEAKER_02 11:57

And the other story I wanted to share was on the health side, and you know, we've both shared you know, your MS and my stroke, but the connection to so that, especially when it came to money and marriage, the stroke was that catalyst. I've said this before. This happened before we got our marriage and money together. That was the reason why we did those things, because we realized life is so short. You know, it sounds really dumb to say now until your life or somebody's life that you love is hanging in the balance, it doesn't seem that important and it's easy to take for granted. Well, when I was in the hospital for that, we bonded really close. You know, it was a scary moment in life. And that was one of the factors in us wanting to improve our marriage because that was the brink of divorce, was before that happened. And we realized what was causing our marriage strife, and it was our behaviors, our money, not really appreciating each other like we we should have. So those three things all came together in a very short period of time. I'm talking maybe less than six months, and our life changed for the better forever. And the health piece got us into the gym with a membership because neither one of us really wanted to figure out how to get fit or get healthier, but a gym was opening up. Tiffany had saw some advertisements on Facebook, I believe. And of course, at the time, she's like, Hey, I'm gonna go to this opening. You know, would you go with me? I wasn't interested. You know, I would go run, and that was virtually the bane of my fitness, and I would crudge through a fitness test for the Air Force and pass it. And and you know, I thought I was healthy, and and I wasn't, right? So, what getting our marriage and money did for us was it allowed us to have a couple hundred dollars a month to spend on a gym membership. And that again, I'm trying to put this in motion. Like all these things led to us being able to do more than what we were able to do before we got our shit together, if you will. And what happens when you get your health together? Well, then you start feeling good about yourself and you start taking care of yourself, and your kids see it, and everything else is getting better at the same time. It's like, like you said, the ripple effect of just those three things, and there's more to it than that, but those three things really got better because of a significant health problem that kind of stirred this whole snowball to roll.

SPEAKER_00 14:48

That oh sh oh shit moment, right? Sparked sparked change. Right? How many of those moments have you had in life that didn't spark any change and you just went right back to what you were doing? This one stuck. Right? This one stuck and you've reaped the benefits. Your your entire family has reaped the benefits from that. Sparked the conversation, sparked the change, and here you are because you listened, because you paid attention, and you came back to the drawing board with your team, with your with your wife. And you know, how many times do we miss those opportunities? And you guys have heard us talk about this many times. You know, Mark and I retired first sergeants, we we led a lot of people, we did a lot of things. Leadership is another topic on the so that, right? I wanted to be a good leader in the Air Force. I did not want to be a manager, I wanted to be a good leader. Uh and I say in the Air Force, this is past tense, that doesn't mean I don't want to be a good leader now. Obviously, from a you know young airman, you're looking up to people, you're you're you're trying to emulate, you're figuring out what you're gonna do. And I know for me, I did not like the you need to go do this, you need to go do this, you need to go do this. I don't care what the rank was. I can remember very early on in my career, actually very early on, I was probably 10, 10, 12 year mark. I I was promoted, um, and I was a flight line expediter, and I used to hate being told what to do. Now we're in the military, you get told what to do, you have to do things. So I get that. But when you're delivering a message, don't tell me what to do. You know, let's let's talk about it. Why are we doing this? And so I'm handing out assignments for the day. And so we're we're working, and one of the NCOs who worked for me, he would he finally started stopping me. So after roll call was finished and I handed out all the we need to get done, he would, he's like, I'm gonna translate what Sergeant Jacob just said, because he's not gonna tell us to go get this done, but he is not going to go do this with us because he outranks all of us. To me, that was my best way to be a leader. That was my best way to show people. I'll be honest, he was wrong because I would go do the stuff with them, but it's just those little things in life. And I you can be a leader, you don't have to be the highest ranking or the CEO of a company to be a leader within the company. You can be, you know, a middle management or or let's be honest, a middle worker in a company in any organization. Leadership is going to show. What are you willing to do? Sometimes it's the dirty work, but that's okay. But what are you willing to do to be a leader? And, you know, I I never wanted to be a manager, I never wanted to just hand out things for people to do. I always wanted to just go get it done as a team, right? My father-in-law has made many comments on my family, and we are a team, right? We work together. That is the biggest compliment you can give me. And just look at me as a team member. Let me be part of your team. Let me just help out. To me, that's leadership, is is being a team, and you can lead from anywhere. Yeah, it's about infinity, it's not about authority. No, it's got nothing to do with authority, right? What what can you influence? Let's influence change. We do that in our life. You did that in financial peace. You and Tiffany did that when you when you signed up for financial peace. You did that when you reconnected after the stroke. You led your family. I want to be show an example of what can be, you know. Again, not perfect, but that's what I strive to do is just be a leader in any situation, whether that's cleaning out the dumpster or you know, anything else. It doesn't matter. Just go do it. And it has nothing to do with authority. As a first sergeant, you see your first sergeant taking out the trash, that's gonna spark something.

SPEAKER_02 18:48

Yeah, we wanted to become better leaders and we want to become better leaders even to this day, so that people trust us. Our family wants to follow our example. When we speak, people know that we've been there and we've kind of earned that right. You know, that's the reason to go off what you're saying to be a better leader, so that. That's what we're talking about is finishing that sentence after so that and put anything in front of it. But if you don't have the why behind so that, we're probably climbing up a mountain and we're never gonna get to the top of it.

SPEAKER_00 19:26

Yeah, and you're not gonna get there alone. You know, Mark brought up the trust, you know. We're gonna go do this and we're all gonna get there together so that we make it. We, you know, we succeed. All together, we succeed.

SPEAKER_02 19:41

Yeah. Great analogy. And I've had this on my list of a potential episode topic for quite a few months now, and I'm glad we finally pulled the trigger on it because if anything, people can use that and apply it to whatever the situation they're in in life today and frame it in that sentence. And maybe you haven't figured out why, or maybe you know why, but you haven't figured out how to get there. I think putting that in the sentence puts it into perspective that you can kind of formulate a plan that you have a clear picture, a clear pathway of what you're trying to accomplish, instead of maybe being a little lost, and yeah, I want to lose some weight, but you just you're not sure why, or you think you know why, but it's a deeper than that initial thought, right? A lot of people want to lose weight, as an example, just to lose weight, you know, but think about the so that so that you can play with your kids or you can go ride bikes or play with your grandkids or whatever it is. Like there's so many things, so that, and hopefully that will help people bring it all together, tie it all in one big bow.

SPEAKER_00 20:55

I want to be heard so that I can potentially help somebody through a difficult situation that they're in. Right. I want to I want to be a trusted confidant so that I can again bring somebody through and and help them out. Not that I have all the answers, but I can be that supporting cast. I can be that shoulder to lean on, or I can be that that person that carries carries you through. Or or even even better, you can help me. We can both grow, we can both learn things, and we can both learn and be better at handling situations that are yet to come. So that you're prepared. Yes. Yeah. I want to learn every day so that I have a better understanding and of of what's to come and and where we're gonna be, so that I'm capable of handling difficult situations.

SPEAKER_01 21:52

Thanks for joining us on Operation Next Chapter. If this episode brought you value, share it with someone who needs it. Follow the show wherever you listen to podcasts, and remember your next chapter doesn't happen by accident, it happens by design.