Network - 1976

We tackle the hilarious, verbose and prescient movie from the acclaimed Paddy Chayefsky. 

Transcript

SPEAKER_02 0:00

And we are recording Chris Weivel. What's happening, brother?

SPEAKER_00 0:06

Not the man. How's everything?

SPEAKER_02 0:08

Uh, it's good. I'm I'm home for the first time. And I swear, dude, I've been home for like a matter of days. I for those of you who don't listen, I do stand-up comedy and I work a lot on cruise ships. So I am gone right now, like three weeks out of every month. So I'm actually home. Happy to be here. Uh my new, well, it's up in here a year and a half now, my new little condo, which I love being at, but it's like I have to travel just to be here. How are you? And you're a new house, by the way.

SPEAKER_00 0:36

Yeah, everything's good. I also work a lot um to uh to do to to do stuff around the house. It's a new build. And uh all we want to do is just just keep adding to it. Patio bump outs and painting and that just never ends.

SPEAKER_02 0:52

So but you have a you have a house. I have a tiny little condo in West Hollywood. So there I I mine's done. Like I used to love coming home going, okay, what am I gonna add? This there's I've added everything, there's nothing else to add, right? I bought a toaster yesterday, that's about it. Wow, there you go. All right, so let's get into this movie because man, what a movie. Uh Network 1976. This one was my choice, and I have to make an honest admission. Had you when I put when I said this movie, I had in my head broadcast news. Oh, I just I always screw those two up. And I when I'm watching this, uh, you know, I I've watched it twice for this pod. When I watched it like three weeks ago, I go, What a wait a second. Have I seen this movie? And I don't think I ever had before. Had you so do you have any history with? I know as a writer, Patty Chayevsky, you gotta be a huge fan of that guy.

SPEAKER_00 1:45

Yeah, yeah. He um, so I saw it in a film appreciation class, but that was way back, like freshman year of college.

SPEAKER_03 1:52

Oh, well, okay.

SPEAKER_00 1:53

I didn't remember it. And funny enough, I when you said it thought 12 angry men, and I put network on, and I was like, Oh, that's not oh, okay.

SPEAKER_02 2:04

So I was that's a that's a pretty now it because Lumet he directed 12 Angry Men. They could have called this four angry men and one angry lady if they wanted to, I guess, since everybody was angry in this movie. But uh boy, that's it, that's a really odd, interesting uh uh characteristic. I mean uh mistaken identity, I guess. Yeah, but yeah, similar, I guess, just similar director, I guess. Yeah. Um, but that's good. That so you so you did see it, but that last time you saw it was in college.

SPEAKER_00 2:34

Yeah, I don't even remember it. Like I didn't I didn't really remember it at all. Um, so it was basically like watching it for the first time.

SPEAKER_02 2:42

Well, I feel like this is our first one of the pot where both of us are coming in completely fresh, then. Yeah. Uh, which I think is awesome. Now, did you watch I I watched it like three weeks ago and I said, Well, let me just let me just zip through it today, and and I ended up just watching the entire thing start to finish. Let me tell you something about this movie. This has got to be watched multiple times. I I took a whole different thing from it the second time.

SPEAKER_00 3:07

Okay, I only watched it once, uh, and then I watched it yesterday, last night, because I always like to try to watch it real close to recording, and then um I kind of sped through and re-watched some chunks of it today, right before this. But I I had the feeling that I missed it quite a bit the first time around.

SPEAKER_02 3:26

I will say though, because you saw it in a class where you guys probably discussed it, you had once you started watching, I'm sure certain things were familiar to you, and you're like, Yeah, really just the uh some of the famous speeches is what come back to me. I I had no idea what I'd never even heard them before. So that was everything was new to me. I I don't like I said, I don't think I've ever seen this. I think I saw uh broadcast uh news way back when well I know I saw that, and I thought that that's what this was when I first told you about it. Uh so I mean what an what a film though. I don't even know where to it's almost like where to start with the film. Yeah, it is it there, it's so thick, it's there's so much going on, it's so ahead of its time.

SPEAKER_00 4:08

Oh my god, yeah.

SPEAKER_02 4:10

Uh especially right now, right now, the way the world is. This movie 1976, the the stuff that Patty Chaevsky brought up that is happening literally right now. It it's who was who is it? Um, who's the famous uh screenwriter? Um who's obviously influenced by Chaevsky uh current. Uh he said it's what is that Aaron Sorkin? Yeah, I think it was Sorkin who said this movie is more is uh predicts the future more than even um uh Orwell. Yeah, more than uh let me see. Is it uh is it on what it's somewhere? Anyhow, I mean we you it just is so let's let's talk about first of all, Patty Chayevsky. What is your i now you were the one to tell me that he's the only guy to win three individual academy awards for writing?

SPEAKER_00 5:04

No, there's actually it's him, um uh Woody Allen.

SPEAKER_02 5:09

Woody Allen, one of his was co-written with somebody else.

SPEAKER_00 5:13

Oh, interesting. Oh, okay. Gotcha, gotcha, gotcha. And then um, yeah, okay, then maybe he is the the one with just three by himself.

SPEAKER_02 5:21

I I think he is the only one with three by himself, yeah.

SPEAKER_00 5:24

Crazy, yeah. Um, yeah, man. So this is often regarded as like one of the 10 or 15 best screenplays of all time. Um, so it's one when I was watching it, I was like, I should sit down and read this thing because I can't even imagine how some of it comes across on the page.

SPEAKER_02 5:42

That's what I was gonna say to you because you I've never written a screenplay. You've written what 10, 12, something like that. Yeah, yeah, yeah. So as a screenwriter, you had to be just going, damn, this thing is fucking great.

SPEAKER_00 5:55

It was incredible. I mean, it's like it's like 12 amazing speeches woven together with this really intricate story in between.

SPEAKER_01 6:03

Uh, and that's why I want to read insanely real characters.

SPEAKER_00 6:07

Oh, yeah, completely believable. I but I want to read it to see what these chunks of uh monologues and soliloquies like look like on the page. Exactly.

SPEAKER_02 6:16

I want to do the same damn thing, man. Uh the writers guild, by the way, Writers Guild of America voted a Chavsky script, one of the 10 greatest screen screenplays in the history of cinema. So that exactly it's uh um have you seen any other Chavsky movies?

SPEAKER_00 6:34

Yeah, so I was actually looking it up. It is the um uh what's the other really famous one? It is called uh I've seen Altered States, and I've seen what's the other really big one.

SPEAKER_02 6:52

Was it the hospital?

SPEAKER_03 6:54

No.

SPEAKER_02 6:56

Altered States. I think I saw that when I was like at a drive-in when I was a little kid. And it terrified you, right? Yeah, yeah, it did, man. That stuff growing in the guy's arms and stuff. William Hurt, by the way, one of my favorite actors back in the day.

SPEAKER_00 7:08

Oh, nice. Okay, yeah, maybe it was uh maybe it was the hospital. Uh, I'm looking at his list here. Uh, but yeah, I guess it was the hospital. Another one of his uh Austin.

SPEAKER_02 7:18

I'd never even heard of it, but that is gonna be on my next watch list that probably in the next couple weeks. Yeah, but long time. This guy fascinates me now. This this it just it was so ahead of its time. It's funny in the news, this just popped up for no reason. Uh, on eight, um what's the day of this April 5th? So what three weeks ago? Steve Croft uh worked for 60 minutes for years, said I hated working for 60 minutes. It's a cutthroat, toxic workplace. Yeah, I'm like, oh my god, that's exactly what this movie's about, 1976. You know what I mean? That's 60 minutes. This also Jim Carrey, uh Network, he said Network is his favorite film of all time. Jim Carrey of all themes, you know, great comedian, obviously, but also a very deep, profound thinker. Yep. Uh, and uh so I thought I thought that I just thought these little nit tit bits were interesting uh of this particular movie. Um, it was interesting also when they when it when uh the credits rolled, they had the actors, and then I think they said network, and then it's rather than written by, it just said by Patty Chaevsky. Yeah, and it was a credit, it was before the producers, before the generally it's writer and then the director, it was before any of those, you know what I mean? It was like wow, it's just a clout, I guess, you know.

SPEAKER_00 8:33

Oh, yeah, oh, no doubt for sure. Um, but yeah, there I mean, there were so many times during this movie where I was like, I can't believe that this was in 1976. Like, if this came out, I would have been like, damn, this is pretty spot on.

SPEAKER_02 8:48

Yeah, it literally was it was shocking to me. Just just what what I'm like I that's what I was gonna tell you. What what this movie made me want to do, as I'm sitting here watching by myself in my little place, going, man, could you imagine watching this in 1976 in like New York or Los Angeles or something with a bunch of your friends and then just going going to a restaurant afterwards and sitting around and talking about it for hours, yeah.

SPEAKER_03 9:12

Oh, yeah.

SPEAKER_02 9:13

You know, like just the these people and in life, and and uh because there was more than just the you know, there was the the I the the first time I I saw it, okay. I you there's so much coming at you, you're like, what is going on? You know what I mean? And then uh yeah, except for the obvious thing, you know, I'm angry, I'm not gonna take it anymore. All the other then the second time I really got into William Holden's character, like the person, you know, and and Chaevsky was only 53 years old in 1976, so he wrote this obviously when he was 52 or something like that. But and he's writing probably like an old man's perspective who's whose life has sort of passed him by, which is and William Holden was only 58, 57 in this movie. Didn't he look older?

SPEAKER_00 9:56

Oh my god, yeah. That was it was throwing me off because I I couldn't keep everybody straight. Everybody looked the same to me. So at first, I was like, wait a minute, these are all old, old white guys with white hair, and I was confused.

SPEAKER_02 10:08

So yes, there was they had a very except for the big stars like the Duval and stuff, they did have a very similar uh you know look, which probably was the look of those people in that thing back in those in that day. A bunch of gray-haired white guys making decisions. Um I listen, I listened to an interview with um Sydney Lumet, by the way. It's another guy, what a career. Yeah, 12 angry men going way back. Uh and then this, and then um this this movie, by the way, was made a very low budget. I think three million. I think it was shot in 20 days. Like it was uh, you know, it for the for as brilliant as it all came. It wasn't like this big, you know, we're gonna have a massive hit in our hands kind of thing when they were making it.

SPEAKER_00 10:55

Yeah, and uh, I don't know if you saw this, but they actually shot it instead of shooting it on a stage in LA, they shot it actually at a TV like news studio in New York City, so it gave it like a really authentic kind of feel.

SPEAKER_02 11:08

No, exactly. It was really was it was very real, yeah. You know, yeah. I saw I I did see somewhere that they did shoot it in an actual studio. Um and uh let's go, let's let's the the City Louette. What was I gonna say about him? He was saying, Oh, he and Patty Shayevsky, they went way back to TD TV days. Lumet somehow met of all people, uh, Yule Brenner. When Yule Brenner was on a TV show before he did the King and I. And he said, he goes, he goes, he goes, I got a call from Yule Brenner going, he was working on a show. I forget the name of the show, danger or something like that. There, and he he goes, he called me, he goes, he goes, Sydney, you must get the overhitter, nobody knows what they're doing, and you know what I mean? And he went and he was Yule Brenner's assistant on this show, and then Yule Brenner left to do a king, the king and I, and the show continued for a little while. But he goes, Patty Chaevsky, that's he he wrote one of the scripts for that TV show. That's how they became friends, that's how they knew each other. And they used to get together and take walks and talk about the the ideas, Pat. And then finally, Patty goes, Hey, do you want to do a movie about TV? And that's that's where this all kind of started to come from.

SPEAKER_00 12:30

Interesting, and it's interesting, it's about news and not like a sitcom or a drama, you know, like a network show. It's actually about the news.

SPEAKER_02 12:38

Yeah, no, exactly. Something that nobody would even think to do something about at this point. Especially make a funny movie, sat satirize it and stuff, right? Um, so let's get down to the cast then. I mean I mean powerhouse.

SPEAKER_00 12:54

Yeah, yeah. Absolutely.

SPEAKER_02 12:58

Faye Dunaway. I haven't seen all her stuff, but if you want to put Bonnie and Clyde, um Chinatown Chinatown, and this up, dude. And this, I I don't know if any actress has a can top those three. They could probably equal it, but I don't know, even Meryl Streep. I don't know if any three just brilliant movies, brilliant performances.

SPEAKER_00 13:20

Yes.

SPEAKER_02 13:20

I mean, she she is just there's something about her that's so alluring that just draws you in. I heard she's a pain in the ass to work with.

SPEAKER_00 13:28

Yep. I did too. And I read some stuff she had like enough a fet uh uh amphetamine problem, like just oh really, yeah, she was like on a bunch of diet pills and like was taking like you know, I think over-the-counter type speed uh to help lose weight and was just kind of maniacal for a little while there.

SPEAKER_02 13:48

You know, it's funny. The first thing I noticed when I saw her in this movie, the first time and the second time, like, my god, she's so skinny. Yeah, like she's like unhealthily skinny.

SPEAKER_00 13:57

Yep, and I think this was like the height of that like kind of phase for her.

SPEAKER_02 14:01

Ah, okay. Yeah, she admitted in a in her uh in a dot they did a documentary there in 2024. She admitted she was she had major alcohol problem alcohol problems too. Maybe she didn't maybe she didn't admit to that, but yeah, and it's funny because her and William Holden are a couple in here, and two years prior, they were in the towering inferno together, and she was showing up late and staying in her dressing room, taking call, and people were getting pissed off. Like that, you know, that was a who's who of big actors in that movie. Oh, yeah. And uh, and and and finally, William Holden, the the report is William Holden got her up against the wall, and you said, You keep doing this to me, I'm gonna put you through this wall. And then they said, and then they said she was on time the rest of the rest of the movie. She believed them. Okay, so two years later, they're here and they're at love interest in this movie. So yeah.

SPEAKER_00 14:50

That's a good point, though. That's a good point. Bonnie and Clyde Chinatown Network. I mean, I I'm gonna actually do a little a little digging after this and see if anybody can can really even come close because I think you might be right.

SPEAKER_02 15:01

That might be and the fact that she is she is so great and all of them in a like in powerhouse roles. Uh they said Lumet said in an like an interview that I was reading or what listening to that with this movie, she didn't they she she her friends and stuff advised her not to do this movie, she said. She said, because because the character is so mean and heartless that they didn't want her to get associated, people to think that's her, you know, and and and so she said it was kind of risky to take it. And Lumet told her, he goes, if you show any niceness in this movie, it'll be edited out. He goes, No, there you have no heart, there's nothing, nothing nice about you, nothing. And and and still, it's still you kind of empathize with her. It's it's almost like it's not your fault. You learned this is all you have, you'd have nothing more inside you. It's not like you're doing this on purpose. Yeah, you just don't have anything else. And I thought she that's what I thought was brilliant about her. Of course, she won the Oscar for this. Is that somehow, even in that that character, you still fell for her, yeah. You know, like you empathize like this, is she doesn't have anything else. And then uh let's get on to uh my favorite in the movie, William Holden. I love William Holden, man.

SPEAKER_00 16:18

Yeah, I was not that familiar. He's in um Sunset Boulevard, I know, another great movie. Um, but I I have the river quai. Yeah, but I've seen it probably, you know, when I was a kid on a Saturday afternoon, it came on TBS.

SPEAKER_02 16:34

Sabrina, yeah. Uh well, you know me. I like the old movies a lot, so I oh yeah. Uh you know what's what's interesting and kind of sad about William Holden. You used to work at Blue Plate Oyster right on Ocean Boulevard in Santa Monica. Yep, yeah. His his apartment, condo, was about half a mile north, down the street from you, right on Ocean Boulevard. That's where he uh died. He died in 1981. It's funny, he died in 1981, so did Patty Shaevsky within months of each other. Uh but but Holden, um he was a big drinker, obviously, and that's why I think he that's why he looks so aged and also uh smoker. But you know, kind of a lonely guy. And what uh Lumet said, he goes, William Holden always had sort of a sadness about him. And if you see this movie, he does. It's just in his face. He's so perfectly cast for this role. Did you hear something?

SPEAKER_00 17:28

Yeah, you're good.

SPEAKER_02 17:29

Okay, cool. And uh, well, I mean, the sad part is he he um yeah, he's big partier. Is that done? That okay. No, he he he died in his in his condo. He was he fell over, hit his head on the end table. There's a bunch of they and he they said from them from the way he was found, it looked like he was trying to reach the phone, but he couldn't get there because he's bleeding profusely. Empty vodka bottles around the house, and they didn't find him for at least four days. He had been there by himself. Yeah, I mean, just lying there dead. I mean, a guy of his stature, Oscar winner, uh Staleg 13, I think is when he went for, and that's how he ends, you know. I mean, it's it's like 63 years old, wasn't even that old. And it's like, man, what a sad, but anyhow, right down the street from where you used to work for all those years, where we used to hang out in Santa Monica. I'd walk by his walked by his condo many times. I thought he was just, I don't want to say stole the movie because he wasn't given the big juicy role, but on second watch, he was the one I was most fascinated with that I enjoyed watching the most. I just felt bad for the guy.

SPEAKER_00 18:47

Yeah, yeah, no, he was incredible. Um and yeah, I want to go back and re-watch some of his stuff. That's what I love about these pods, is like I didn't I hadn't seen this in forever, and it kind of opens up like, oh man, there are so many talented people in these movies whose career I don't know anything about, you know, and I know they've all done great, great work. So um, I definitely want to go revisit some of these uh ones I haven't haven't seen before.

SPEAKER_02 19:14

Yeah, yeah, yeah. You know, Sunset Boulevard, obviously, and this uh it's funny the one he won the Oscar for Stalag 13 or 1913, I think. I haven't I actually have not seen that one, which I'll go do go do that. Um again, I was afterwards after watching this, I go his his character was so sad, you know what I mean. I'm I'm at the end of my life, and then the lines are starting to show, you know. I'm I'm closer to the end than I am. I mean, Patty Chaevsky's writing this stuff like as an old man's perspective, he's 52 years old. I know, yeah. It's like and it's so real, it's so it's so just uh perfect. Um, I mean, it's just so genuine.

SPEAKER_00 19:54

He I mean, we can get on, we'll get on with the story later, but yeah, and he's so like he's so right because he was gonna be dead so like a few years later. So he really was at the end of the story.

SPEAKER_02 20:05

I know. I mean, yeah, it just which is yeah, just that's just the irony. And then uh, you know, Robert Duval, god, I love Robert Duval. Watching this movie, you go, My god, you go, This guy can do anything.

SPEAKER_00 20:17

How anything? My god, yeah.

SPEAKER_02 20:20

Yeah, you know, who would have thought they somebody's said uh they wrote this character late in the game, by the way. They said they needed they needed a a bad guy, they needed a bad guy to sort of be the the face of the bad guy, you know, ish with and and and they go Robert Duvall was not the first guy they thought of you don't really picture so who was it, Lumet said he goes, you don't picture Robert Duvall in like a tuxedo being mean, but he goes, it ended up being perfect casting. Um and uh and not to mention he was fucking funny, man. Yeah, in his meaning. Oh yeah, you know, like you could just tell he was just digging this role, man. It was so good.

SPEAKER_00 21:02

Yeah, he he is he has like this this it's so easy to like be over the top in some of his these oh a lot of his roles, but this one in particular, but like I at no point was I like oh he's overacting or he's trying too hard. You know, it was like, oh my god, this guy is frightened, you know. Like, thank god this is not my boss, you know.

SPEAKER_02 21:23

Yeah, no, exactly. Yeah, no, it was just chewing up scenery. I mean, it was it was fucking phenomenal. Um do we know what that noise is?

SPEAKER_00 21:36

Yeah, it's uh my phone keeps ringing.

SPEAKER_02 21:38

Can you turn it on silent or no?

SPEAKER_00 21:40

It's it is. I don't know why it's going through my my iPhone through my iPad or my MacBook, and I don't know how to turn that off.

SPEAKER_02 21:48

It's probably Bluetooth.

SPEAKER_00 21:49

No, my Bluetooth's off.

SPEAKER_02 21:51

Oh, really?

SPEAKER_00 21:51

Oh, that's really everything off. I don't I don't know what's going on. So sorry. Yeah, maybe the same person just keeps calling me.

SPEAKER_02 21:58

Oh, really? Okay, maybe it should. Or something like that there. Um, Duval, let's see here. Ned Beatty um got nominated for an Oscar for this.

SPEAKER_00 22:08

Yep.

SPEAKER_02 22:09

He was a last minute replacement. And I mean last they had another actor, I don't know who, and they said the guy wasn't working out. Again, this is I I I watched an interview or listened to a little interview with uh City Louette. It's on YouTube. And uh he said we call he we were having we didn't know who to cast. It was a such an interesting, you know, specific role. He said they were having lunch, and who was in the commissary, somebody got there? And who was it? Robert Altman goes, I got the guy for you, Ned Beatty.

SPEAKER_00 22:37

Oh this he said, yeah, you know it the story. No, no, no, go ahead.

SPEAKER_02 22:43

Oh, okay. So they said they sent in the script. He flew out to meet with them on a Sunday studying the script on the on the plane. Four-page script, four four pages of you know the monologue. Studying, studying that script. They he this is on Sunday. They're he's flying out. They shot it on Monday. He was on set for one day, and he shot that fucking scene it which was just awesome. Yeah, and and got nominated for Academy War for that for that one scene. And they asked, I was listening to Ned Beatty. They said, uh, Lumet goes, Um, did you ever go to church, Pentecostal church? And he goes, uh he goes, I did. I'm not Pentecostal, but when I was a kid, I would. He goes, Do you have any memories of any um preachers? He goes, Yeah, I do. There was one guy and kind of a reserve guy, but once he got on the podium, he goes start getting into it, you know, and he goes, That's where I want you to be. And that's how he got sort of like that's how that character, the fire and brimstone. And he goes, but also to memorize that one day and nail that thing like that, awesome.

SPEAKER_00 23:49

That I mean, uh, that's what I was gonna say. I think he's my favorite part of the whole movie, and he's in it for seven minutes or something.

SPEAKER_02 23:56

I mean that scene, man. That is a rewatch scene, his scene.

SPEAKER_00 24:01

So that's one of the ones today. When I got home, I was like, I gotta rewatch. I wanted to rewatch that one and a couple of the other ones. And I mean, I just was it's just yeah, it's it's just astounding.

SPEAKER_02 24:13

It's mine, it's mind-blowing what what he's saying, too. Some of the stuff that Patty Shaevsky wrote for him to say is so the corporate world uh, you know, I you know, we can get into it later, but uh it's interesting the way he goes off, and I mean Shaevsky on Arabs and that, you know, because it's uh you know, it's it's kind of a crazy thing because you know he's Jewish and he was very they they uh for for Faye Dunimway's character, they considered Vanessa Redgrave, they wanted her, and he said absolutely not because she supported the PLO. And uh he he he didn't like uh Vanessa Redgrave because she he thought she was against Jews and all that some crazy little stuff like that going on in in you know in his screenplay and in his world and stuff like that there. Uh I'll tell you who I thought my favorite actor in the movie was Beatrice Strait.

SPEAKER_00 25:07

Yeah, now this is a dumb question. This is the wife, correct? Yes, yes, okay.

SPEAKER_02 25:12

Never heard her name before. I don't know her name. She you know she won the Academy Award for that. It was the shortest shortest screen appearance ever to win an Academy Award. I I'm not gonna say, I'm not gonna lie, I'm talking the first time I saw it and the second time. It is one of the top five best acting performances I've ever seen, ever. Ever. It was the it literally might be the most believable moment I've ever seen on screen. Uh I'd like to read that script and go, are these the exact lines that he wrote for her to say? Because it sounds like it's coming out of her, right?

SPEAKER_00 25:47

Yeah, no, I agree. And I I didn't know who it was either. And when the the the you know, the big scene with with with her, I rewound it and I was like, Am I seeing this properly? Like, who is this? Yeah, no, like where are we finding this talent? You know, like exactly, dude.

SPEAKER_02 26:04

Yeah, she just comes out of nowhere and just blows the screen, blows you away. Oh, yeah, you know, it just just I it was like mind-blowing. Even even better the second time when I just watched it uh today. I I just couldn't get over, and then of course, we got to talk about Peter Finch. Um, they initially were hesitant for him to because he's uh I want to say Australian, but somebody said English too. Either way, he had an accent. And uh he told Lumet and the producer and Chaevsky, he said, send me uh tapes of Cronkite, and I believe Dan Rather, one of the other guys, sure, you know, talking, and he goes, I'll send you a tape back within two weeks without an accent. And that's exactly what he did. And he got the job, okay. And and uh, you know, obviously, you know, he's the first posthumous uh winner of the Academy Award. I did again. It's uh he had heart problems, but he also, I guess, he had um like seizures and stuff. Lumet said he got nominated for the Oscar. I mean, uh Finch, not Sydney, and he said they were all out in California. He goes, I was going to pick up Peter Finch at the Beverly Hilton Hotel. He goes, I walk in, he's up there by the table, and all of a sudden he just fell over. And he goes, I'd seen him fall before, but generally because he was having a seizure or something, it was kind of rough. He goes, This time it was very like he swear to God, he used the word graceful. He fell over gracefully. That's when he died, right there. He goes, That's when I knew it was something different when he sort of just fell over gracefully. Like he that was it. I mean, that was it. Terrible, yeah. Because in this movie, I mean, you're like, this is probably the last movie that dude with his heart problem should be doing. I mean, like, yeah, no nobody knew, but right.

SPEAKER_00 27:51

Um, you said that was at a hotel?

SPEAKER_02 27:54

That was a Beverly Hilton Hotel, yeah.

SPEAKER_00 27:57

Oh wow.

SPEAKER_02 27:57

I keep pointing because it's down that way, but uh uh yeah, it uh again. This will be the last time I think I quote this interview, but it was fascinating. Lumet said, You the famous speech, you know what I mean? I'm not gonna take it anymore. He did it, and then Lumet said, keep the cameras rolling. He goes, Okay, he goes, How you ended it, the passion you ended with, let's do it again. But start there. I want you to start with that passion and build from there. And he started doing it. Peter Finch started doing it, and like halfway through, he goes, I'm sorry, I have to stop. I'm exhausted. And Lumet goes, No problem. And the the original one, the first one, that's the one they used in the film. He only did it one time.

SPEAKER_00 28:35

I I did see that. Um, that it was like a take and a half or something, or one take, or which is just incredible to just nail that. Like, I mean, literally, yeah.

SPEAKER_02 28:47

I uh this the the the acting in this movie combined with the writing, it might be the greatest combo. I don't want to say ever, but it's up there, and here's why when I watched it the second time the words that Patty Chaevsky wrote for these actors to say, I'm not gonna lie, dude. And I I watched the original um 1976 Siskel and Ebert review of this movie.

SPEAKER_00 29:11

Oh, nice.

SPEAKER_02 29:12

Did you ever used to watch those two guys?

SPEAKER_00 29:14

Oh, yeah, my favorite thing. Did you agree with them generally or uh probably not? Um, I don't really remember off the top of my head. Uh because I was I was I don't mean on this movie specifically.

SPEAKER_02 29:25

I just in general, I used to somehow always seem to agree with Ebert. He all him and I so anyhow, they they they do a thing, and then Siskel. It's funny because it's 1976. Siskel has like a giant mustache and he's got hair, and it just doesn't fit him at all. The the sit the gene Sisko we knew, but anyhow, he goes, he goes, you know, great movie. He goes, he goes, uh regarding William Holden and Faye Dunaway, he goes, their their scenes were a little overwritten, so I didn't quite believe it, but I still believe the whole movie was awesome, and you know, it was a great. And then they turn to uh to uh Ebert. He goes, Uh, I'm gonna disagree. I thought it was written great. I thought he goes, How many movies do you see right now where the lyric where the dialogue is instantly forgettable? He goes, I thought this was amazing, and I go, Yes, that's and that's when I go. So I I wrote I'll when we get to our notes. Some of the words that Travsky wrote for these guys to say, just in in conversation, it's not how human beings talk, and these actors are so good they made it seem like this is how we talk, right?

SPEAKER_00 30:33

Yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_02 30:34

I it was astounding.

SPEAKER_00 30:35

Yeah, I actually adamant. I love looking words up.

SPEAKER_01 30:41

Yeah, dude, that's what I was doing, man. He put so many in there just to fucking show off. I'm like, you motherfucker.

SPEAKER_00 30:49

Unbelievable, but yeah, I agree, man. With the the dialogue, the writing, the acting, and obviously you gotta include the directing. I mean, I don't I it's it's up there with anything I've ever seen.

SPEAKER_02 31:00

I agree. You know, it Rocky won the Oscar for best picture that year, and deservedly so. Yeah, but but I mean, this there should have been probably a tie, man. There's I that the fact that this movie was not an economy award best picture is mind-blowing to me because I just think there's it's of course I love Rocky, but it's you know, a little bit of a simple tin story that caught fire, and I get it, but I just feel like there's just so much more talent in this movie with the writing, the acting, you know. But you know, I'm not gonna rag on Rocky.

SPEAKER_00 31:34

Oh, yeah, you can't rag on Rocky, man. It's a much more complicated story, you know. There's just a lot going on. Yeah, that's a that's a that's a tough, tough loss to take, dude. Network, not winning.

SPEAKER_02 31:46

Yeah, but three actors, three uh, three um Academy Award actors, Finch, um, Faye, and uh Beatrice straight. I gotta look up whatever what else what else she did. I don't know anything about her. I almost could guarantee she's a theater actress, though. Gotta have a huge theater background.

SPEAKER_00 32:03

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 32:03

Because you know, you don't you don't know her as a movie star, but man.

SPEAKER_00 32:07

Yeah, no, she's incredible. Um, what was I gonna say? Um, yeah, she was unbelievable. There's three movies that have won three out of the four, and this was one of them. Yeah, the other one. Do you know the other one?

SPEAKER_02 32:21

I've I think I read the name, but I cannot remember right now.

SPEAKER_00 32:24

Streetcar Named Desire, yeah.

SPEAKER_02 32:26

That's it. Then the other one is like 2012. It was something movie.

SPEAKER_00 32:29

That's more recent than now everything everywhere all at once.

SPEAKER_02 32:33

Yes, which I did not see. Did you see it?

SPEAKER_00 32:35

Yeah, it is. It is some shit. It's awesome. Yeah, it's very good. It's so different. I mean, it's not for everybody, it's it's that's what I've heard. It's an incredible piece of storytelling, though.

SPEAKER_02 32:47

Uh well, that's one of the that'll have to be on my list then with the doctor. So, so we get into the story. What a story it is, dude. I got so many notes. We'll try to buzz through so we don't you know bore people to death. But opens up, which is the four networks all talking, Peter Finch being one.

SPEAKER_00 33:07

Yep.

SPEAKER_02 33:08

This is just what a great way to establish uh UC U UCB or UBS, sorry. Yeah, you got CBS, MBC, ABC, UBS. Now then they cut to the to the you know the narrators telling us the shares and blah blah blah blah blah. And then we cut to um uh Finch and Holden out of New York, right there. And these two old these two old shums.

SPEAKER_00 33:31

Yep.

SPEAKER_02 33:32

And the what now now who had just one of them had just gotten fired, right?

SPEAKER_00 33:38

Yep, and so they go out and just just get blitzed, you know, telling their old stories. Uh New York City, just drunk, walking around, figuring life out. I mean, it's a great, great opening.

SPEAKER_02 33:53

It really is, man. It just made you go instantly go, I'm in. Whoever these guys are, I need to get to know this story right here. Yeah, um, tells it ribbons speaks, and then they um borrow myself, shut up. How oh, and then he goes, Oh, that's when foreshadowing, whatever. He goes, I'm gonna kill myself on TV. And what does he say? Be a hell of a rating, yeah. Probably a 50 share. The fact that their minds go there immediately, even if they don't want to.

SPEAKER_00 34:23

Yeah, which is a great thing that they kind of kept going like throughout the movie, like that they're always in the back of their mind ratings driven, and like almost everybody, and it's they cannot help themselves, literally cannot help themselves.

SPEAKER_02 34:36

It's all they know.

SPEAKER_00 34:38

Uh one thing I had a question about like we got a 47. I was like, I was like, is that good? It sounds good. I you know, like maybe a better explanation of what the ratings were, I think would have helped me. So I was like, I guess that's bad, or I guess that's good because I don't know anything about the ratings, but I I don't I don't either.

SPEAKER_02 34:56

Um, but the way they talked about them, that would generally be go, we this will give us a 50. Well, I go, Well, that must be really good, that you know right, yeah, yeah. From content, sure. Yeah, exactly. Yeah, um, just the fact that they were it's weird, it's weird how much things have changed since you know that was this. So, what is this 50 years ago? 50 years ago, 19. This is 2026, 1976, and there was only three stations back then, and you know, wow, that's crazy for all the internet anything, and then we cut to the moon the newsroom. Oh, the oh, this is then the the credits by padded. We've already touched on that, yep, yeah. And then they go to the studio and then the production room, and then uh and then uh Q Howard, and then he starts he just starts talking, right? So now uh oh, so then now we'll just cut to Howard's now talking, and and he says, I'm going to kill myself, and everybody in the in the production room, they don't they're not even fucked, they don't even nothing, don't even fucking real register.

SPEAKER_01 36:07

We're just like, say, what are you gonna have for lunch?

SPEAKER_02 36:09

Are you going to do what the fuck, man?

SPEAKER_00 36:12

Yeah, he gets fired and he's like, I'm just gonna blow my brains out. And they're like, No, anyway, you know.

SPEAKER_02 36:17

No, that's she goes, I'm gonna kill myself a week from today. And she says, 10 seconds till commercial. That's literally what she said right there. I'm like, just establishing that they don't, they're all just flatline, not really listening, not paying attention. Chaevsky said that he was surprised when he worked in TV that very few executives actually watched what they put on TV. They weren't watching their own shows. They were putting on they were putting on shows real that he goes, they had to be bad shows, shows that they didn't even like. He goes, Imagine spending your life working like that, and that's kind of what he's doing in this thing right here. Yeah, you know, cut it, and then they go, cut him off, you know, and then clear the lobby. You're off the air as of now. Duvall's character comes in, it's all over the news. Thirty feel thirty-three million dollar uh I forget. I'm my notes are so sloppy. I was writing so fast when I was watching this. Yeah, but uh yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_00 37:20

Faye wants to get the network back on track, so we got a good motivation for a bad person, right? They're in last place in the standings.

SPEAKER_02 37:28

Um, so you know, she wants to take over uh his uh Bill uh um Bill's job. Uh my Bill William Holden's job. Yeah, they have that the that thing with the bank robbery, the Patty Hearst thing, and she's like, lights up, wait a second. Yeah, this this is this could be ratings because I guess back then at this time, we were talking about the three networks stuff. These news was considered um just a money loser. Yeah, they it was just accepted that that this that this division lost money, it was just something it was necessary a necessary thing that they and she's like, no, let's that's the other thing I was gonna say. I forgot to say it earlier. Um, that comes into play in this movie. What what gave him the impetus, Patty Chavez, to start thinking about this movie? Uh ABC was just getting purchased by a major conglomerate. Yeah, I for I don't know who back then, but you know, back then they were all their own studios founded, you know, by the people in Hollywood, and now they're getting bought be by corporations. And he goes, Oh, corp, they're gonna be corporations. Corporations, all they care about is money.

SPEAKER_00 38:39

Yeah, and so he goes like Viacom or something. I don't know.

SPEAKER_02 38:42

Yeah, something like that. But but he but he saw the future. He said, he goes, This is all about this is because it's no longer just about the art or whatever. This is now whatever makes money and what doesn't it's gone. Yep, or or they're gonna or they're gonna cheapen it up or whatever. And and that's kind of dude, that's exactly what comes into play in this movie. Um his character, he doesn't work for the station, he works for CCA, the the company that buys the station.

SPEAKER_00 39:08

Yeah, the parent, the parent, yes, the the corporation.

SPEAKER_02 39:11

He's not a TV guy at all, he's just a money guy, that's all it is.

SPEAKER_00 39:15

Yep.

SPEAKER_02 39:16

Um, and then so Howard, you know, you're fine. This is and then Howard wants another shot, you know, to make a fair statement. And then uh Faye's office is about the bank robbery footage, and she's like, We can get a murder series, literally, maybe a series, you know, movie of the week about murder and terrorism. She with a smile on her face, yeah, talk about establishing a character right off the bat.

SPEAKER_00 39:42

Yeah, yeah, yeah. And she's like, you know, the oil's more expensive, corruption, war. They're like talking about all the things that are gonna draw ratings. And I'm like, that's all that's on TV now. Exactly, dude. I mean, this is incredible. That's when I really started to be like, holy shit, man.

SPEAKER_02 39:57

1976, man, and he it's all come to pass 50 years later. Jesus. And she goes, I want angry shows. Yeah, and she's telling this whole thing. I and she goes, I will sack the whole lot of you. Can you set up a meeting with Lorraine, Lorraine uh Hobbs? That's the later, that's of the epicureal whatever um movement thing.

SPEAKER_00 40:18

Yeah, yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_02 40:19

I mean, I'll sack all of you. Can you set up a meeting with everybody? You know, just like nothing, man. Oh, I love it.

SPEAKER_00 40:26

I thought a great I thought another great quote was uh when they were talking about putting Beal on TV, she goes, You want to put an irresponsible man on television? And I was like, also, that's all that's on TV these days, you know. Exactly. Question that then now it's like, Yep, just send everybody, every idiot, just send them right out.

SPEAKER_02 40:44

Yeah, I'm telling you, man. It it it's I'm watching this going, I cannot even believe that right now that this is going on, that's this world we're in right now. Yeah, uh, it's just crazy to me. Pushing um so then we get Holden's getting pushed out. They're at that stockholders meeting where they announce that the the news division is getting, you know, it just William Holden. You he's literally at that world where he'd go, he could see I'm one of the old school cats, and this is becoming a new world, yeah. And I'm and I'm no longer fit. I no longer fit in this, and they're I'm getting pushed out by his own friends, you know. God, that had imagine that could you put you're you're his age, and what do you do? You you get what what do you do for work at that point? Where are you gonna go get hired? This is all you know, and the whole world's you know, changing it's just the depressing, he just such a depressing life that he, you know, yeah, that that he sees in front of him, and he's not that old.

SPEAKER_00 41:44

That's that's what I took from William Holden's character, like you know, yeah, and it's like it's not only like are you getting you know pushed out by your friends, but like your your world is changing and evolving to something you don't understand. So not only are you gonna have a hard time getting hired anywhere, but even if you do, this thing you you were like a master of is gonna start looking for, and and and it's you're literally a dinosaur overnight, uh and you can see it and you know it, and and then uh yeah, I mean it's just and then he he goes back, uh Beal back in the thing, and he's uh I ran out of bullshit.

SPEAKER_02 42:23

My you know, my last hidden, you know, he's just everything is bullshit. And they cut to uh to uh Bill Holden's character, and he's just like, Leave him on, yeah. Tell him if this is the way he wants to go out, let him go out. I just loved him, man. And then he goes, uh, so and so it says hackett's on the phone. He goes, Tell him to go himself, yeah.

SPEAKER_00 42:44

Yeah, at least they know yeah, yeah. They they recognize something was happening here. Plus, yeah, well, they're in they're in last place. It's like we gotta take some chances here. Let's just I mean, fuck it. Let's just see what happens here. Why not?

SPEAKER_02 42:58

Also, Holden knew he saw that he saw I'm out no matter what. Fuck you, Hackett. You know, I didn't I just love that line. Tell them to go fuck him. Yep. Oh my god, Bill with the top dogs. So then they're in that meeting, the CCA meeting. Uh, the control expect oh that that's what he tells. I expect your resignation. He tells, you know, and then Faye is FaZe. This is Faye's chance to take over Faye Dunaways, and and then Bill makes a statement. Let's see here. Uh oh, Bill Beal's making his statement on TV, and Faye is what is in bed with her guy, and she's just watching the news while he's trying to have sex with her.

SPEAKER_00 43:45

Yep, yep, yep.

SPEAKER_02 43:46

Totally establishing her as the coldest ice queen of all ice creams.

SPEAKER_00 43:50

I mean, that is that's job dedication, right?

SPEAKER_02 43:54

Exactly. I mean, I mean, they might have given her some kind of human qualities, but I you know, like I said, Lumet said, nah, nothing. Nothing. Your mean this whole fucking movie, you're mean. That's all there is to it. I mean, it all but also lets you know the thing I got, you know, because you know, you've worked in television. I live in out here in LA and been working on this. Is such a mean, heartless business when it comes down to it, you know. Oh god, yeah. And this movie, you could just tell that Chaevsky knew knows this inside and out. He knows these people. Uh, her character was based on a real person, a real producer who was a big time, powerful woman back in the day. She denied it in a movie, but that's who who else? You couldn't write something this real if it wasn't based on somebody.

SPEAKER_00 44:37

Exactly. Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 44:38

So, you know, this is how this cutthroat business works. I'm sure other businesses work too that way, but you know, it's the one we know. So um, picking up the paper, she sees the rate, she's looking at the rate, she's looking at the paper the next day. Fay Faye, oh, there's war in here. Whereas in war in Angola, there's uh whatever, a crisis here. And look what's on the front page. Howard Beal.

SPEAKER_01 45:01

You know, ding ding ding. There we go.

SPEAKER_02 45:04

That's on the front page of the new with all these crazy things happening in the world. Beal's front page.

SPEAKER_00 45:09

Yep.

SPEAKER_02 45:11

So now she's trying to sell uh Duvall. Um, she she no, she goes to Robert Duvall's office. No, this, and he's like, Are you fucking crazy? You know, but he could he could see she makes some sense. Yeah, he goes, All right, I'll bring it up to legal. Yeah, uh, and then Bill Holden tells stories. Oh, and then Holden's cleaning out his office, and all of a sudden, Bill comes in, they start laughing, enjoying like the old days, yeah, just having a good time looking at the old pictures of themselves, and then all of a sudden, everybody's gathered around listening to Bill Holden tell one of his old stories. It's the same story he told at the beginning when they were drunk in New York. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Same exact story. Yeah, but it's like one little hurrah on his way out, kind of a thing. Yeah, and then that's when they come in and say, Hey, there he goes, they're keeping him on. What they're keeping Beal on. Even Beal can't believe it, he's right there, right? Yep, hilarious. Uh let's see here. Corporate maneuvers. He's gonna yeah, go ahead.

SPEAKER_00 46:20

Yeah, and then I think we is this where we're coming in on the the legendary mad as hell scene. I think it is, yeah.

SPEAKER_02 46:27

Yeah, it's definitely coming up here. I'm watching the I'm just trying to go through the new how oh, yeah, yeah. This is one of this is we were talking about the words that um um Jaevsky writes. This is one of them. Uh, Bill was watching. Um, he's going to the left. I get to it. Ask Bill to stay. Bill Greases. Okay, so he so what's his name? I can't remember the character's name, but one of the old the old sky, the guy who was president uh or the head of the programming, who was who was William Holden's friend, he comes to his office. Hey man, they're putting him back on. Can you stay? Can you stay? You know, the you know, he goes, I didn't want you to get fired. He goes, Hackett. This is when you start seeing I'm a he's a program guy, hackett's the guy who wants all this change. He works for CCA, he doesn't work for us, you know. So that guy's actually Billy Holden's friend, but his hands are tied too. And he goes, Can you stay on? And Bill agrees to stay on. So now he's watching the narrator comes on. This initial response, the new Howard Beal show was not auspiciatory. It's not auspiciatory, and I'm like, You fucker Chaevsky, just throwing this shit in. Yeah, yeah. Imagine him watching it at the theater going, what the hell does that mean when you can't Google or something? Right, right. Was not auspiciatory. I just was cracking up, man. This movie was a lot funnier the second time, a lot funnier. I picked up on things I didn't even realize the first time. Okay, really, the satire and shit was in there.

SPEAKER_00 48:01

Okay, I was curious about that because I know when it came out, it was meant to be like a satirical, like for what I read was like I think it was perceived to be funnier when it first came out, but if you watch it now, it's like oh shit.

SPEAKER_02 48:14

Yeah, you're yes, you're so caught up in wow, this is so on point for today's world. Yeah, watching this thing, I just picked up on such so much humor that the more that we'll get to a certain, especially a certain scene that fucking cracked me up. I couldn't even believe that I missed it the first time. It was so funny, so well done. Uh Faye's in the Bill's office late. Faye comes into Bill's office. This is when she's taken over. Um, but she's also she's coming on to him. And I I'm not gonna lie, I I'm going. Does she have something to gain by this? What is that's the only reason she does things? She's already on the way out. Is she is she just sleeping with him to get somewhere, or you know, I you know, and I I I could quite I still can't quite figure out her motive for being with for being with him, yeah. You know, an older guy, and she had a crush on him in the University of Missouri and all that stuff, and but I I quite can't didn't quite get that.

SPEAKER_00 49:18

Yeah, I didn't quite fully get that relationship either. It did lead to an astounding scene, but which we'll talk about, I'm sure. But yeah, I was kind of like, oh, okay.

SPEAKER_02 49:27

Yeah, especially when they went when she went back to it, you know, like she liked the guy or sort of like the guy, but and then uh he asked her out to he asked he, you know, he asked her out to dinner. I can't make it for dinner. Oh, that's what another just just establishing her character. They're standing there. He goes, You want to go get dinner? Uh and she goes, and she calls, she picks up the phone. I can't make it for dinner tonight. Love, call me tomorrow. Her boyfriend, or her boyfriend, or her hookup, or whoever literally just dismisses that guy for this right here, you know. Love. I just thought the fact that they put the word love in there, I can't make it for dinner, love tonight. Love cancels on him just like that. This is at nighttime, too.

SPEAKER_00 50:09

Yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_02 50:09

Oh, it's and then he and then Holden, you know, that's the other thing. They I think they wrote this line because it was almost unbelievable that William Holden, a guy of his character and intelligence, would fall for her. Yeah, you know, like you're a little too smart for this, bro. I get it. Yeah, yeah, you're hooked on her, but it just seemed because he turned to himself, schmuck, what are you getting into? What are you getting yourself into? He told, you know, that's what he says to himself, right? He calls himself the schmuck.

SPEAKER_03 50:38

He knows, yeah, he knows what's going on here.

SPEAKER_02 50:40

But you know, he's also, I guess, he's like, I mean, like I said, dude, he's not that old, but it they they make his character to be so old, I guess, because his feet he feels old because his his world, his entire world that he knows is gone or leaving. So maybe this is his last chance to hook up with this young girl. He hasn't done that in a long time, you know. Maybe the marriage wasn't happy. I don't know, you know. Uh they're at the restaurant, her and uh Faye and Bill Holden. My husband ran off. Oh, I thought this was funny too. My husband ran off with his boyfriend. Yeah, that was a little ahead of its time.

SPEAKER_00 51:14

Yeah, yeah, yeah. Uh, and doesn't she also say I'm bad in bed?

SPEAKER_02 51:19

Yeah, she's I can't tell you how many men have told me what a lousy fuck I am.

SPEAKER_00 51:23

Yeah, like what a great first date this is. This is incredible. Husband's baby, I'm bad in bed. What do you say? Want to get out of here? Sure.

SPEAKER_02 51:32

And uh she goes, I seem to be an ep at everything except my work. All I want out of life is 90 share and a 20 rating, or 70 share, 20 rating, whatever the case may be. Anyhow, her whole life is that she's saying it right to him, and she's right. It literally, that's her entire life. Yeah, and then she goes, Again, I don't know how many times I need to establish her character. It almost got to be a little bit too much. He goes, Is your wife in town? He goes, Yes, then we better make it my place, you know. I mean, just I mean, great line, but yeah, great line, but we get it, man. She's a bitch, all right. Damn it, doesn't care. This is when you start going, man, do I like Bill Holden? I don't know, you know. Uh, and then they go back to Beal, and that's when he has that dream. Why me? Why me? But this is when he starts losing his mind.

SPEAKER_00 52:23

This is the moment he turns into uh the figure. Um, and it's a great line, too. It's uh it didn't have a breakdown, I had a cleansing, yes, way to like look at that, you know, um, which would make sense for where he's heading.

SPEAKER_02 52:43

Yeah, and I'm like part of me is going, is he going mad, or is he actually just kind of seeing the light or just seeing the world he's in and going, oh, this is it really is all horse shit. This is all horse shit, and I'm just gonna say it. I don't give a shit anymore. Um back to so newsroom, let's see your Beal. Here's the voice goes off. Uh the truth because you're on television. Bill rolls eyes because you're on television, dummy. Wait, that that repeat reportional goes off. Yeah, yeah, yeah. No, but there's something I said, okay. I can't remember. Faye watching excitedly. Because you're on television. Whatever the case, I've I'm losing track now. But that's coming, but I think they said it earlier too. Bill's office to Bill. I think you're being I think you're having a breakdown. Because what did Bill say something on TV? He must have said something. He said, I heard a voice, goes off, and he tells the crowd. I think, why do you why do you come to me? Because you're on TV, dummy. You're you're on television, dummy. And Bill, and and Bill rolls his eyes at this, by the way. I just have my notes here. I think Bill says it to himself out loud, though. Uh, and then yeah, then he goes, Beal, connected. I feel connected, and then he faints right there.

SPEAKER_00 54:02

Oh, yeah, yep, yep. And then the one of the funniest things, his buddy runs over, he's passed out, and the way he like opens his eyes to see if he's okay was the most violent. Like, he like like rips the guy's eye, like eyelids open. I was like, God, like, are you mad at this guy? Like, oh my god, I thought that was like an accidentally funny moment for and this is he this is when he passed out on stage, right?

SPEAKER_02 54:26

Yep, yep. Because also the big camera goes right up above him for a close-up, you know. Yeah, oh yeah, nobody cares, dude.

SPEAKER_00 54:33

And all ratings also foreshadowing for sure.

SPEAKER_02 54:37

Oh, absolutely, yeah. And then uh, and then they go to Bill's house. Uh they think I'm going crazy. Oh, he he goes, You're coming to my house. So he goes to Bill's house.

SPEAKER_00 54:50

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 54:50

And then they they think then then he wakes up. The thunder wakes up, he goes, They think I'm going crazy. And he walks out in the rain and he's disappeared. And Bill's wife. This is when we meet uh uh Beatrice Strange, and again, we just think she's like an a small old character, it's not gonna have anything to do with the movie, really. Yeah, she sees Bill, she wakes Bill up, you know. Hey, he's gone. And then Hackett's office, Hackett, who wanted nothing to do with it, he's hot, you know, get him over here. And it's funny because he goes, We got great news all the way from Albuquerque to Sandusky. Now, being from Cleveland, you know Sandusky, that's where Cedar Point is, where I used to go as a kid.

SPEAKER_00 55:26

Um, I used to go too.

SPEAKER_02 55:28

Yeah, okay, that's what I was gonna say. I figured you probably did. I thought it was cool, like Sandusky, a ret represent. Yeah, so now Hackett's in love with Beal because he's making the money. He cares, you know. Bear cares about Billings, yeah. Bill, Bill, William Holding, he cares about Beal, they care about Radius. That's why I wrote that on my notes right there, you know. Because he's they're genuine friends, and he just sees this is all wrong, right? I this I am not putting him back. Bill, I'm not putting him back on the air, and then that's when Faye goes, it's not your show anymore, it's mine. Yeah, and Hackett, oh, that's because the other guy, Ruddy, he had a heart attack, so Hackett takes over now, and that's when he gets that's when Duval gets fucking nasty, man.

SPEAKER_00 56:12

Yeah, dude. Oh, yeah, he's dug it. Oh, yeah, it was great. Uh yeah, and then um yeah, I want your resignation. I want you out of the office by noon today, and then like five minutes later, he goes, No, I want you out of here before noon.

SPEAKER_02 56:30

Yeah, because he gives him a hard time, shortening his timeline. Oh, it's great. Yeah, fucking man. What a what what a fun scene to just shoot with a film, man. A bunch of these guys just love doing this movie. Oh, I bet. Oh, and then he leaves, he's pissed, and Hackett goes, Something going on with you and to her, to Faye Denaway. Something going on with you and uh Schumacher. She goes, Not anymore, yeah.

SPEAKER_00 56:56

Yeah, and the look on her face, too, is so like like she's just like now he's like out done forever, no feelings attached. Exactly.

SPEAKER_02 57:07

Nothing, just not anymore. And it does unbelievable. Yeah, and then Bill Bill walks in from the rain, goes right up into the fucking TV, and that's when he gives the speech. Yeah, oh yeah. I want you to get mad, yeah. Get up, go to the window, and I'm at I'm asking mad as hell, and I'm not gonna take this anymore. There's no way I saw this movie before because I'd never heard this speech. I didn't know this speech. Yeah, you you knew it, huh?

SPEAKER_00 57:36

Yeah, yeah, yeah. I I've read it. Um, like I said, this this speech is discussed in a lot of screenwriting classes. Um, is it really?

SPEAKER_02 57:43

Wow, that makes sense. Oh, yes.

SPEAKER_00 57:45

Um, I also I drive a lot uh for work, so sometimes all YouTube um 10 best film speeches, and it's you know, like 30, 40 minutes long, kills some time to drive to an appointment. And this one comes up quite a bit.

SPEAKER_02 57:59

Yeah, I I I'm shocked. I've never even heard it, man. I didn't even know it.

SPEAKER_00 58:04

Oh, it's incredible.

SPEAKER_02 58:05

It it it bears listening to several times. Oh, yeah, because it really I I just feel like a lot of people, especially younger people who've never heard this movie, don't know any of these people, would hear this and go, This is me right now. Oh, yeah, this is me right now in this world.

SPEAKER_00 58:24

Yeah, and like it the the first line is I don't have to tell you things are bad. Everybody knows things are bad, you know, like a dollar's worth of nickel, and it just keeps going, and it's just like, Holy shit, how is this still completely relevant 50 years later?

SPEAKER_02 58:39

Yeah, it was it's mind, it's mind-blowing, dude. It really is. Yeah, yeah. Uh and and and Bill, who's watching at home, just looking sad. Yeah. And then Faye's all exciting. Are they yelling at? Are they yeah, wants to know, are they yelling in Atlanta? All she cares about. You know, are they are they yelling at Atlanta? Or what are you know? Is it it's is is this working? Yeah they said uh I was listening to somebody, uh might have been um might have been the cinematographer. He said, No, I think maybe it was I think it was Lumet. He goes, We had talked about doing cuts to people driving, going with the ruddy their windows down. I'm mad as hell, people in restaurants, I'm mad. And I think it was Chayaski or something. He said, Nah, just keep it people outside the building, yeah. Which was a really powerful scene, those big buildings with all the windows and there was thunder going on. It's just a really again. This guy could have been one best director easily.

SPEAKER_00 59:40

Oh, yeah.

SPEAKER_02 59:41

It was such for for for a movie with not a lot of movement, just a lot of talking, and there's so many cool shots and scenes in the movie, yeah.

SPEAKER_00 59:50

Yeah, that that was incredible. And I I was wondering, like, would that like could anything like that happen today? You know, like everybody back then watched the news, right? Now everybody's on social media, right? So could there ever be a just somebody have meltdown kind of monologue, and and everybody, you know, on Twitter and Instagram and everything is like I don't think so.

SPEAKER_02 1:00:17

Yeah, because the world is so divided, you know, half the people go, this guy's a fucking lunatic loser. Look, look at I knew he was an idiot the whole time. And the other people, the other people like, no, you're an idiot. This guy is you know, I just they're so divided, uh, everybody is, you know.

SPEAKER_00 1:00:35

Instead of like rate opening the windows and saying, you know, we're mad as hell, they're making fun of him and you know, saying everything else about everybody else.

SPEAKER_02 1:00:43

I mean, just look at the you know the politics right now. I mean, there we've never seen in our entire lifetime the the the dissension between people that like Trump and don't like Trump. There's almost like no middle ground. I'm probably one of the middle guys. I just like to know just what makes sense, what is going on, you know. I'm you know a bit of conspiracy theorist, anyhow, as far as the world politics go and all that kind of stuff, lost child and all that kind of stuff. But the the people that just all these people just hate him. Hate I can't remember ever seeing the where there were so many people just hate the president. Like maybe maybe you don't like what somebody's doing, or you don't like his policy. They hate the human being, like like I've never seen anything before, like it's incredible. We're going off on a tangent, but I just I'm just saying when I'm watching this movie, this is what I'm going like, man. There's so many people that just feel angry, yeah, in the world right now. But again, this is unite, this is more everybody's united, just in everything, but there's just a lot of anger in the world, and then uh, so now that there's uh so now um what's her face as face? She's all excited, man. This is a um everyone's yelling the thunder. Now it's she's like, my god, we're getting, you know, people are doing it in Atlanta. Now she's flying out to uh to Hollywood where the anarch the narrate narrator comes on, they got a 42 share last night. Right, yeah, you know, six million. Uh oh, it it beat out six million dollar man and Phyllis. I mean, using all these, you know, all in the family, which is that which is interesting because obviously those are dated references, but this is a news show that's beating out famous sitcoms in ratings, so that which has got to be like you know, back then especially, you know, shocking. First time, yeah. Yeah, I mean, but yeah, exactly. Uh which which this changes everything now. The news is a viable money-making operation. Yeah, so this is when Faye goes out and meets with the West Coast execs with Lawrence Hobbs, the lady for the ecumenic ecumenical libertarian, you know. I don't even know if ecumenical is a word.

SPEAKER_00 1:02:53

I yeah, I I was I was like, who the hell are these people?

SPEAKER_02 1:02:57

Well, obviously, it would they it was a just uh sort of a ripoff of Patty Hearst and that whole thing.

SPEAKER_00 1:03:03

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 1:03:04

Um literally it looked just like it. Yeah, but um epic, yeah. But again, I don't know if you made that word up or I didn't look it up, unfortunately.

SPEAKER_00 1:03:13

Yeah, I didn't look up that one.

SPEAKER_02 1:03:15

I was like, all right, I'm not looking and then and FaZe in there with her. We want an authentic act of terrorist act, you know, we'll build a show around you, we'll give you money, and you know, like it doesn't matter if people got hurt, doesn't we're gonna get ratings?

SPEAKER_01 1:03:28

That's all that fucking matters.

SPEAKER_00 1:03:30

And I wrote this down too. She even says to her, she goes, Look, you can sneak in whatever propaganda you want, we just want the ratings.

SPEAKER_02 1:03:37

Yeah, exactly. She don't give a shit, man. And Haas is like go to goes to meet with Ahmed Khan. I'm gonna make a TV star out of you. And and he goes, What the fuck are you talking about? And I I must say, I I I don't want to point this out, but again, this is 1976. I mean, you know, it's a it's a black movement, and what are they eating? Kentucky fried chicken, you know. So that was a little bit okay, uh, Chaevsky. That didn't age well, but that wouldn't fly. Yeah, exactly. That wouldn't fly today. Back to the production room, the new show. Uh, the new oh, the new show audiences, they go to the audience, we're mad as hell. We're mad as hell. Oh, by the way, a little faux pas in the in the in the movie. Every time they have an audience scene, even though they're different days, it's the same exact crowd.

SPEAKER_00 1:04:26

Oh, interesting.

SPEAKER_02 1:04:27

Because they probably shot them all with one crowd, just right don't change clothes with the same people. So, yeah, if you notice that, but yeah, so now we have that cornball music. It's like a it's like a game show today, you know. The mad prophet.

SPEAKER_00 1:04:41

Uh a pretty good nickname.

SPEAKER_02 1:04:44

Yeah, it was. Uh Ruddy died. Oh, that's what he goes. Uh Ruddy, he talks about Ruddy Died, and they start talking about this tube. Three percent of you read books. Yeah, you know, you know everything you know is from this tube. The TV. What is everybody? What is everybody now? Everybody knows everything from here. The phone, yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_01 1:05:07

This that's all I kept going. Oh my god, he's talking about he's talking about TikTok right now.

SPEAKER_02 1:05:11

That's all people growing up, that's all they watch. That's all they know. But back then, back then, this is all they knew, just watching the TV. He goes, he goes, 15% of you even read newspapers, you know. And so, yeah, so now he's just going off on these people, and Hobbes, and then a Hobbes meeting with uh Ahmed Ghana. Oh, yeah, I already did we already did this room. So Roddy, Ruddy died. Now, oh, now this company is in the hands of CCA. Now it's official. The old guy is gone. Now this is now hack it. He takes over. Oh, no, so this is all this is still Bill talking. This company is in the hands of CCA. He's saying it's this isn't no, it's a corporation now. Who knows what. Shit will be peddled for truth. Yeah. Pedaled for truth on this. I was like, fuck. I can't believe I almost can't believe they got away with this.

SPEAKER_00 1:06:07

Right. Yeah. Who knows what shit will be pedaled on this network? TV is a circus. It's a joke.

SPEAKER_02 1:06:14

And it's just like, holy shit, dude. Especially for two guys that came up in TV.

SPEAKER_00 1:06:20

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 1:06:21

Lou Met. Lou Met said that he goes, they said, hey, you guys are biting the hand that fed you. And he goes, So he goes, We gave you, we gave you, meaning TV, a lot of great stuff. And who do I care? There's gonna be all these executives. There's gonna be a new executive next month, next week. It doesn't matter. You none of you guys stay, you know what I mean? It's like, in other words, they're fucking right. We're in the boredom, we're in the boredom killing business. Oh, oh my god, dude. It's so true. It's just so fucking true. He and then he faints. The and then they go in and glance again. Now we're at the CCA boarding meeting, hack it. Oh, this is that long table with the green lights.

SPEAKER_00 1:07:04

Oh, yeah.

SPEAKER_02 1:07:05

You know what I mean? The CCA that all sudden you see how cold it all is.

SPEAKER_03 1:07:09

Yeah, it's just cold.

SPEAKER_02 1:07:12

Just letting us know now this is corporate business coldness, man, with just all these impersonal lighting and everything. I just thought it was a fucking great looking scene.

SPEAKER_00 1:07:20

Oh, and like the table super long, like you know what I mean?

SPEAKER_02 1:07:24

It was like oh all these faceless, nameless fuckers, and then they pan down to Ned Beatty, who's just at the end looking. And then Bill runs into Faye at the funeral. Hey, can I buy you a cup of coffee? Hell yes. This is what I just didn't get. She got what she needed out of this guy. Why is she going back to him?

SPEAKER_00 1:07:43

Yeah, I also didn't understand it.

SPEAKER_02 1:07:45

I think honestly, it's just to set up the later scene. I mean, let's just be honest, it's just uh it's nonsensical.

SPEAKER_00 1:07:52

I just think it's meant to so they can have the last scene, but also um, it was very rare um back then to have a movie without any kind of a love story. True, you know what I mean. Like, so I think it's served like a dual purpose, you know, like we get the love scene, the love interest, even though it doesn't make sense, and we get a killer last scene. Um, the matrix famously had no um Trinity character, the the woman in the Matrix, and the studio was like, we we're not gonna make a movie without some sort of love interest.

SPEAKER_01 1:08:24

Oh, so that's where they put her in.

SPEAKER_00 1:08:26

Yeah, that was like damn. Yeah, or I think she had a like a smaller role. I can't remember the details, but that that was the number one note, dude. We have to have some kind of love story. Yeah, that's been like Hollywood trope for you.

SPEAKER_02 1:08:39

I thoroughly enjoyed uh Faye Dunamoe and Bill Holden. They might have been my favorite part of this movie. I you know, yeah, it was just really I don't know, just two people so sad for different reasons and just trying to come together. And he he was just so fucking sad at this movie, dude. I know, and but also because I know how his life was, yeah, he only he only was alive for like four more years, five more years, just drinking heavily. I I don't think he was you know, he he dated, but I don't think he had a lot of love in his life, kind of blah blah blah. So I think it was very real with him. Yeah, uh, by the way, they wanted they wanted several different actors for for his role. Okay. Um all the different roles, actually. But he had just had a big hit with um the towering inferno, which we talked about earlier, and that's why and that's why they got him that why that's why they got him in. Uh, not to we'll go on with the story, but also with Peter Finch. Uh they envision Henry. I'm reading off Wikipedia right now. Henry Fonda, Cary Grant, Cary Grant, uh, no, James Stewart, uh, no. Only not because they're not good, they're just too old at this point. Yeah, yeah. And plus, they were just Cary Grant doesn't have that kind of weight. He was just, hey, how's it going? I'm you know, whatever. Henry Fonda, I don't know what it is, man. Never been a huge Henry Fonda fan fan. I'm not saying he's bad, but I just he's just I don't think he has the passion that that this this uh this role required. He was more the quiet, you know, whatever. And also, and Paul Newman, they said, Paul Newman, I don't think he has sort of the fire, yeah, that that would have done the one guy they said, although not mentioned in Chaevsky's notes, they said that George C. Scott and Glenn Ford reportedly were into uh that role of Beal, and I think George C. Scott would have been fucking great, honestly. That that guy had although I'm not saying better than Finch, but that's the one guy said, Okay, I could see him for sure.

SPEAKER_00 1:10:35

Yeah, I would have liked to have seen Redford take a crack at it. I agree.

SPEAKER_02 1:10:39

I don't think Paul Newman or Robert Redford.

SPEAKER_00 1:10:41

Or that's what I mean. You said who did you say Paul Newman? Paul Newman, yeah. Okay, yeah. I'd like to have seen him take a stab at it, but um I just don't think he I don't think he could play crazy.

SPEAKER_02 1:10:50

I I don't think he can play crazy. I just don't think that's that's his thing.

SPEAKER_00 1:10:54

In his real house, yeah, yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_02 1:10:56

I mean, yeah, I'm sure you know he's Paul Newman. He could have probably, but uh George C. Scott easily. Yeah, he was fucking crazy.

SPEAKER_00 1:11:08

Uh uh, where were we? We are so they're uh the number one network, they're having the big gala, and then yeah, and then we get to the the big speech with um uh lost his name here. Uh Ned Beatty.

SPEAKER_02 1:11:26

Yeah, wait, wait, let's go. I think we're I think we're quite there yet. Hold on a second, because Bill, I can't get Bill tell they're they're still having coffee after they met at the funeral, Bill and Faye. And he just goes, I you know, I can't get you out of my mind. You know, he's he's he's smitten, he's fucking smitten. This is his last chance to get a hurrah or whatever, maybe I guess in his life. He's bored, obviously bored with his marriage. Uh and then Faye office packing, making out with oh, so now Faye's packing, making out with Bill. I mean, she's getting ready to go on a little rendezvous with with uh Bill. Like, oh, does she have some feelings for this guy too? Like she's she's she's packing up her office, and there was another um, there was another funny scene as she's walking out, it's just somebody goes, Hey, uh Bill Conn called said he can't make it. She goes, Well, we I mean no, no big deal, whatever. Just kind of a passing little joke, you know, just to show how fucking indifferent she is to anything.

SPEAKER_00 1:12:27

Yeah, bulletin.

SPEAKER_02 1:12:29

And then they're making and then they're making out her and Bill. Well, and all she's doing is again, I feel like they're overselling her character. Like, we fucking get it. That's all she's she all and she just keeps talking about business, and then they go to the beach and she's still talking about bitches, and they're at the romantic dinner, she's talking about business. Then they're running to the beach again. Uh, the bungalow. Now she's still talking business. Now they're getting undressed, she's still talking. Like, yeah, we fucking got the no offense. I mean, but I just feel like we got the point, you know what I mean. We at some point, I just think we got it, you know what I mean.

SPEAKER_00 1:13:02

Well, and also, like, at some point, the you would think to do would be like, All right, look, we're at the beach, like, can we just take 20 minutes and just not how about how about just fucking explode?

SPEAKER_01 1:13:14

Yeah, lose your lose your shit. All right, I fucking get the ratings. I've been in this business too, you dumb broad.

SPEAKER_00 1:13:20

Yeah, like that's what I was waiting for, and he just sitting there taking it, and I was yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_02 1:13:25

It just got to be a little too he's the wimp, and she's the uh it was I hate to say it, but is the one part about the movie that's like uh okay, I'm not completely buying this, you know. I mean, I'm not out of it, it didn't take me out, but I'm like, oh no, it's just they're driving the point home so fucking hard that it's like, okay, fucking, I get it, man. You're banging. She finishes within like three seconds, uh, you know, okay, and then she goes, And then while he's caressing her, what's really bothering me is my daytime rating programming, you know, right back into it again. Like, okay, we fucking got it. And and no fucking guy would put up with that shit like he did, but okay, here we go. No, and then Bill and his wife, and he confessed, and then her speech, dude. Oh my god, yeah, that speech knocked me.

SPEAKER_00 1:14:14

Yeah, I'm gonna I'm gonna rewatch that one. Uh, there's a few, there's a few rewatchable speeches in this thing.

SPEAKER_02 1:14:22

Every major character had one. But yeah, it was the mighty, like I said, it was so real. It's weird because you know me, I it I when I like something, I fucking like it. And when I don't, I don't. There's not a lot of gray area of me where I'm like, ah, it was pretty good. Right. That that caught me so off guard her acting in this scene, like I've never seen. And I will say the one other time that that happened, I'm not saying I haven't seen great acting performances, of course.

unknown 1:14:49

Sure.

SPEAKER_02 1:14:49

Meryl's Meryl Streep and Kramer vs Kramer, for instance, whatever. But the one that caught me off guard, it was so good, was the mom in she's a famous actor. I'm spacing out her name right now, Australian actress, in the sixth sense. Um I'm spacing on her name right now, but the the lady who played you. Did you see the movie The Sixth Sense? I'm sure you did, right?

SPEAKER_00 1:15:10

Oh, of course, yeah.

SPEAKER_02 1:15:11

Way back when I'm forgetting the actress's name right now, but the lady who played them all, I'm like, oh my god, that is so fucking real. She's so real in this in this scene, like where she broke down with her kid. I just couldn't believe it. She's gone on to be a very famous actress.

SPEAKER_00 1:15:27

Oh, but Tony Collette.

SPEAKER_02 1:15:29

Yes, exactly. Yes.

SPEAKER_00 1:15:31

Okay, yeah, I don't even remember that. I'll have to check that one out.

SPEAKER_02 1:15:34

Yeah, yeah, yeah. I actually go should go back and just watch that scene. But this scene right here reminded me of that scene because it was so powerful and so real. Yeah. Um, you only really and then you know, the only really reality she knows is her TV set, you know. And that's when he says, You're in when she the wife goes, You're in for some dreadful grief, Max. And he goes, I know. And you're like, Okay, well, then get the fuck out, bro. Yeah, come on, man. Man up, you dumb shit. Um, yeah. Okay, now that oh, this is a scene, dude, that I didn't realize was so funny until the same time. Now they're back at Ahmed Khan's house. Okay, but now there's remember they were sitting around before with all these guys with guns. Now there's a bunch of suits, yeah, yep, and they're all sitting now, and they're all talking in Hollywood lingo, you know, uh um licensing and sublicens, etc. And then and then she starts spewing out Hollywood talk, you know. No, I want you know, but she's doing it like a you know, like a you know, tough lady, you know, thing, but she's using their language, yeah. And and but like all pissed off, and then he shoots the gun, yeah, yeah. And then, man, give her the fucking overhead clause, yeah.

SPEAKER_00 1:16:53

Oh, yeah, yeah, dude.

SPEAKER_02 1:16:55

And then he goes, Let's get back to page 225A, subsidiary rights, yeah, yeah. They're totally all Hollywood now talking Hollywood, dude. It was so funny this time around. I I just didn't gather that the first time I watched it. Man, I was dying. That was one of the funniest things I ever saw.

SPEAKER_00 1:17:14

Yeah, that's in my notes, too. That was amazing. And then and like, and he shoots the gun off. Some people get scared, but like a lot of the suits down front, they're just like, Hey, we gotta finish this meeting, you know. So they're like, What page are we on?

SPEAKER_02 1:17:25

36. Where were we? 22, five days.

SPEAKER_00 1:17:28

Yeah, yeah, okay, cool. Yeah, that was that was awesome.

SPEAKER_02 1:17:31

I was I I didn't pick up on that the first time I watched it. I was just dying that time, yeah. Uh okay, then they go to the award show where Faye is getting lauded. Number one show on TV. We're number one. Yep, Bill, and then Beal's on TV doing his thing as Duval walks in, and now he's going off on this is where the thing where again Chaevsky's going off on the Arabs and and then the Saudi money and Hackett's on the phone and Clarence, take it easy, and then Hackett's walking back, watching Beal on TV talking about whether the Arabs own the money and how they that and this and how it's filtered through Switzerland. This is some heavy shit, man. Yeah, I I don't know if this is all made up on Chaevsky's part, if he knew stuff about stuff or research or you know, but calling out it's you know, this entire you know, ethnic group or whatever, you know.

SPEAKER_00 1:18:27

Yeah, that's wild.

SPEAKER_02 1:18:29

Kind of brutal, yeah. Uh I can see how some people would be pissed if they saw this.

SPEAKER_00 1:18:34

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 1:18:35

Oh yeah. Uh and then they're all watching the White House. And it's this is one moment where I think the the filmmaker can make a mistake. He's giving his speech, and and and and um Duval's watching the speech, and all of a sudden they cut to everybody in the TV watching the speech, but the speech is ongoing. There's no like we cut to it further. You know what I'm saying?

SPEAKER_00 1:19:01

Oh, interesting. Okay, I missed that.

SPEAKER_02 1:19:03

Yeah, I was like, ah, it's it's like a continuous speech, but it's in two different time places because he's gathered every he's gathering everybody in the TV room as they're watching him go off on the C A C C A deal. Go, and now Hackett's going, This you're gonna blow my deal. I work for C A C A, you motherfucker. Now he wants him off, right?

SPEAKER_00 1:19:23

Yeah, yeah, and then he faints. Yeah, I missed that.

SPEAKER_02 1:19:26

Yeah, well, just that cut. It just is cut, you know, it's an editing thing that I just go kind of miss that. Aftermath, hackett, we need that, we need that Saudi money.

SPEAKER_00 1:19:38

Yeah, dude. The meddled with nature, yeah, and hackett.

SPEAKER_02 1:19:43

I'm finished. Uh Jensen's gonna call and fire me. Faye, you're not going to pull and then Faye, you're not gonna pull Beal off the air. She can give a fuck about Hackett, too. No, you're not gonna pull my gravy train off the air, you dumb shit. I love it. Phone rings, it's Clarence, or it's Jensen wants to see Beal.

SPEAKER_00 1:20:06

Yeah, he didn't call to fire me.

SPEAKER_02 1:20:08

He is actually wants to see Beal. And that was a nice little surprise.

SPEAKER_00 1:20:11

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 1:20:12

And then uh, oh this is a so now they're at the Jensen's office. Oh, uh, what's his name? Um, what's the actor's name? Uh Ned Beatty's office.

SPEAKER_00 1:20:24

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 1:20:25

And then they walk in and Ned Beatty goes, Good morning, mr. This is another, this is again Jaevsky showing off. Good morning, Mr. Beal. They tell me you're uh you're they tell me you're a madman. He and he goes, Beal goes, only desultory. Yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_01 1:20:43

Go fuck you, Jaysky. Yeah, yeah, come on, dude.

SPEAKER_02 1:20:47

Like anybody talks that way in real life, only desultory. I looked it up, by the way. Funny word. So then now, dude, now we're in the conference room. Ned Beatty. Bro, everything about that scene, amazing. Dude, is that is that speech on one of those speeches you listened to?

SPEAKER_00 1:21:06

I I'm it doesn't come up. Like, I'm sure I've heard it before. Um, but I mean, I was like, I was jaw-dropped when I saw it this time. Because, like I said, some of the other ones I've heard. Uh, but this one, if I'd heard it, I forgot it. So I probably haven't heard it. Yeah, um, to be I mean, it was just like holy shit. And to know he only had a day to to study and figure it out and get it down, uh, is even just even more impressive.

SPEAKER_02 1:21:35

He Ned Beatty said it was like doing Shakespeare. He goes, It's like it literally, this is literally Shakespearean. Yeah, and and he did like, but just the way they were shot from the long thing, and he's in that he's very at the end over there, and you know, it's and he's standing still, but he's full, and then he starts moving full of anger and everything.

SPEAKER_00 1:21:55

And then uh there's even the one part where he's got the shadow on his face, yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_02 1:22:00

So fucking well shot the whole thing, and and Bill's just like, you know, like Bill's like, am I the fucking crazy one? Are you the crazy one? You know what I mean? Yeah, yeah. It's like, and you will atone, yeah. And he goes, and you will atone. Am I getting through to you, Mr. Bill? Yes, I have chosen you to preach the evangel.

SPEAKER_00 1:22:28

Yeah, and then he turns it. I have chosen you to do it, and then you get the great line, why? And he's like, Because you're on TV, dummy.

SPEAKER_02 1:22:35

Yeah, it's literally it's simple as that. Fucking as simple as that after all that shit.

SPEAKER_00 1:22:41

Yep. Uh yeah, incredible. That would that's arguably my favorite speech in the movie. I it's hard to say, but as of now, I'm I'm ranking that number one favorite.

SPEAKER_02 1:22:52

That was my favorite speech. Yeah, I just everything about that was just fucking classic. And then Beals back on TV now. Whole world is becoming humanoid, creatures that look human but aren't. Right as we're in the AI generation, I watch video. I watch videos, dude. Sometimes I go, is this a real person or is this right? Is this a real cat? I don't even know. I don't even know anymore. And I'm what I'm reading this going, this 1976. The whole world is becoming humanoid, creatures that look human but aren't. Yeah, on fucking real, dude.

SPEAKER_00 1:23:24

Yeah, yeah, unbelievable. All because she's soulless, and that's exactly what's happening now.

SPEAKER_02 1:23:30

Yeah, just exactly and then narrator ratings drop. Uh Faye is pissed at Bill's agent. Bill shows up for the to her. Oh, Bill Beal, pissed. Faye is pissed off at Bill's agent. Give me that fucking agent on the phone. I want him out of here. Bill shows up to her place. He's tired of being an accessory. Bill feels lousy about pain. He's caused. He just Bill, and now Bill has his speech. Yeah. You know, with with with uh her. And I, you know, we don't need to get into the speech, but she doesn't know. I don't know. I don't know. I uh he wants you to love me. And she goes, I don't know what you want me to do. And then boom, phone rings. She's like, I gotta get that. You know what I mean? Yeah, you know, just in other words, in your face, dude. You ain't gonna get what you want out of her, bro. No, how many people have we known, by the way, guys are like that where they you're like, dude, you're not gonna get what you want out of her. She doesn't love you, bro. Move on, yeah.

SPEAKER_00 1:24:26

Yeah, oh, yeah, yeah. First, right?

SPEAKER_02 1:24:28

That's what's going on with this guy, you know, shit.

SPEAKER_00 1:24:31

And that speech is so devastating. The like the things that he says to her, it's like you. I feel like he was like, all the things we're talking about, walking on the beach, uh, having sex, everything is work, work, work, work, work. I think he's formulating this speech in his head because he hits her like in the like most accurate, hurtful, like without raising his voice and getting all crazy, precise. Yeah, uh, and that makes it even more hurtful and scary that he's just like he's matter of fact and not yeah, exactly. But that was another one where I'm like, God damn, this dialogue is incredible.

SPEAKER_02 1:25:12

Like, I mean, it's just like holy, it's just so real. It's like you you want to know what life Patty Chaevsky went through, like personal life and everything.

SPEAKER_00 1:25:20

Yeah, seriously, yeah.

SPEAKER_02 1:25:21

I mean, it was just to be able to write shit like this. I mean, yeah, yeah, yeah. You can't write shit like this just from your head. This is got this comes from something way deeper.

SPEAKER_00 1:25:30

Yeah, yeah. I mean, that speech is just like, holy Jesus. Yeah, and she just like uh yeah.

SPEAKER_02 1:25:37

Well, she's she you know, I'm here to listen until I got and he goes, I knew for weeks, you know. So uh Faye watches replacement shows, so so they call Faye in to watch the replacement shows. They all they're all stupid, you know, these gimmicky shows. Um then oh that they that he gave that speech, but they're not done yet. So Faye comes home, Bill's sleeping on the chair, remember? Yeah, and then this is when she's packing his bag and she's he goes, Oh, you're gonna cancel this show, you know. You you know, you're not the oh, she's like, You're not the worst fuck I've ever had. He's like, he's he's like, it doesn't even get to you. He goes, You think that gets to me? He's just so he's just so done flat flat lagging this boy. He goes, he goes, I made a mistake, I'm gonna go home. But you know, you're the you're one of Howard's he goes, you're one of Howard's humanoids. And he's right on the money. Everything died. He goes, Everything dies with you, but not me. Like, you know, like you said, dude, just just just oh there's he it's not gonna work, he's not gonna get there, it doesn't matter. But if anything is, it's gonna be that's the way you do it.

SPEAKER_00 1:26:50

Um, and another just great line of dialogue. A Faye says to him, uh, I didn't mean to impugn your cocksmanship.

unknown 1:26:59

Exactly.

SPEAKER_00 1:27:00

What like what dude?

SPEAKER_02 1:27:04

I was watching with subtitles, and I'm like, I had to go back a few times. What let me what is that fucking sentence right there?

SPEAKER_00 1:27:09

Yeah, oh yeah. That with that one, I just was chuckling at that. I was like, This fucking guy, unbelievable.

SPEAKER_02 1:27:14

Yeah, he was showing off the whole fucking movie, man. I loved it. Uh uh, so now then the meeting room hackett Jensen wants Beal on no matter what. So, what do we do about Beal? That SOB. Suppose we'll have to kill him. This is just a this is just a corporate decision they're making. Yeah, oh yeah, right. What would you say to an assassination? Would be great kickoff for the next season. Fucking hey. I mean, that's satire at its best. The fact that they're just they're literally just discussing this matter of factly.

SPEAKER_00 1:27:48

Oh, and then they went through like, well, what happens if he dies? Like, what's the insurance like? Well, it's actually the X times Yes, exactly.

SPEAKER_01 1:27:55

They're literally talking about the financial ramifications.

SPEAKER_00 1:27:58

Yeah, yeah, but it's just gonna set our Margins back, like and and they just know it, and they're like, Well, if he dies at work, it's this. I was just like, I could not believe that they took it there.

SPEAKER_02 1:28:07

Ah, dude, it's really just it was yeah, it was funny as shit. And what I didn't realize the first time watching is uh Mad Conn, who ends up being one of the shooters, he had a reason to get rid of him because he was ruining their ratings. So he actually had a reason to be to want him off too. He goes, our show's getting ruined because he's the lead in, or whatever. He's ruining our fucking show. Final scene, final scene shot, camera moves in. Um, and then then they just have one of the we one of the videos is him lying there, and they then the Canada Canada try, you know, bump you know, just this fun stuff. Yeah, and then uh the announcer comes on, and then they they the announcer comes on again. That the that the announcers, this is one of the this is how the movie ends, or one close to the end. He goes, The first known example of a man who was killed because he had lousy ratings.

SPEAKER_00 1:28:59

Just an incredible way to end the movie. I mean, I was just like because I was watching it and I'm like, how where how are they gonna wrap this up? Like, where are we gonna meet, dude?

SPEAKER_01 1:29:09

Me too.

SPEAKER_00 1:29:09

Yeah, and then the kill them. I was just like, Oh shit, dude, like just perfect, absolutely perfect.

SPEAKER_02 1:29:15

Yeah, and I then I think like while they're showing credits or credits are rolling, they they something where they said that the Ahmed Con or the Epicureal, they're they're they're working on a sitcom for them. That's gonna it's just in other words, everything keeps moving, it does not matter. Yeah, it does not matter. You're just you're gone now, your ratings are done. We don't need you. Goodbye.

SPEAKER_00 1:29:34

Yep, it just proves um the speech that um that Ned Beatty gives, you know, like it's all just money, it's just corporate, it's just like it just keeps going, it just keeps churning, you know. Uh like, yeah, we're just gonna keep going on without you.

SPEAKER_02 1:29:50

And it and the fact that again, the fact that um Chaevsky saw all this stuff, wrote up all all this stuff in the mid-70s, and and literally just called it, called TV out for what it really is. We're up, you know, nobody did that kind of shit, man. From a guy who worked from the inside who knew what the hell was going on, yeah. Ballsy, just ballsy, man.

SPEAKER_00 1:30:17

Yeah, and yeah, and especially like the news aspect of it too, because it's like like you were saying, it's it was kind of like it lost money, nobody gave a shit. Like it would have been easy for him to attack a sitcom or a drama or a studio or something like that, but to approach it from literally a news network is just I mean, it's you know, this this is sort of on point with this here.

SPEAKER_02 1:30:40

I used to, like everybody else, I used to watch the news and go, Oh, that's it, that's the truth, right there. Whatever they said, whatever what I saw in the news, yep, you know, for years. Yeah, I I go, this this is true, you know. I mean, uh uh, and then I was working with a comedian, nemer, his name is N-E-M-R, great comedian. He's from Lebanon, he's huge over there in the Arab world, like he's been on the cover of Rolling Stone magazine Arab Countries. Sweet guy, he's in America working out. We were going to do my show, uh, you know, back in Beaumont, Sandtrap. We're driving and him and and another comedian were just talking about the news, and I'm just and and he just told us, he goes, Man, he goes, You guys in America have no idea what's going on because all you watch is the news. He goes, I've lived it. I've been in a cafe and heard a bomb go off two miles away. That's life over there. We've lived it. You guys just see that what's on the he goes, you got to dig a little deeper. And that's what I'm going. I'm one of these people who don't know anything except what I see on the news, and that's when I started going digging deeper, going, Oh wow, who owns this news station? What is their agenda? What are they trying to sell me and why? And I went down a deep rabbit hole. Uh now I try to look a little deeper before I ex before I accept anything as as fact, let's put it that way. Sure. So, and that's that's what this this the movie's all about, basically. Where what it becomes, yeah. You know, we'll sell you anything to fucking we'll we'll manufacture shit just to sell you, just to keep you watching. Who cares?

SPEAKER_00 1:32:09

Yeah, yeah. I mean, I'm the exact same way. I I I almost never watch the news currently. Um, just um, which is why it also just re this movies specifically just resonated with me because I was like, oh, this is why I stopped watching the news in the first place, among other reasons, of course. Um, but uh yeah, well, that's a separate conversation, but yeah, I mean it was just unbelievable for sure.

SPEAKER_02 1:32:34

Yeah, I like I said, I took a lot out of it just as a person, not just just as watching the movie, like wow, this you know, I I went through that sort of thing where I was just I'm like one of those people just lost watching the news, going, okay, that must be it. We must hate this people because of the news tells us to now dig a little deeper. What's really going on behind all this stuff? So you know, just try to I just try to dig a little deeper before I make decisions these days.

SPEAKER_00 1:32:59

Yeah, totally. And a lot of that for me was like we were talking about COVID and quarantine and all that was also very eye-opening for me, too. But that's a whole other podcast.

SPEAKER_02 1:33:07

Absolutely. We'll do that some other time. So this had an 8.1 on uh IMDB. I forgot to look at what the uh what the um uh well we we used to do this, but what the uh Rotten Tomatoes number was. I think it was 91, 92 percent, something like that. There, okay. We can look it up. But uh what do you give this? Now let's give it the letter grade. What do you give this movie?

SPEAKER_00 1:33:33

Oh, I mean, it's absolute A plus for sure. To me, um I yeah, uh A plus probably my favorite movie we've watched on here so far.

SPEAKER_02 1:33:43

Yeah, I'm not gonna lie, it's hard for me to just because then there's nowhere else to go, but yeah, I I I cannot disagree. I have to give this movie literally an A plus because it's a movie that I'll go back and watch many times going forward because I know I missed something this time. I dude, I'm telling you, I don't think I've ever watched a movie uh a second time and go, oh my god, how did I miss this? Right, how did I not miss this? How did I there's just so many little things, little jokes, even that that there were so that I appreciated so much more. So like I said, I watched it three weeks ago and then I watched it again uh this morning, and it it was like eye-opening, how how much I didn't realize that I didn't didn't get the first time around.

SPEAKER_00 1:34:27

Yeah, and it's funny, it's good to know because I was well, I was watching it and I was like, Oh man, I wish I would have known how dense this is because this is one I would have liked to have watched it twice before this. I usually try to watch them right before, so it's all fresh.

SPEAKER_02 1:34:40

Yeah, me too.

SPEAKER_00 1:34:41

But this one was like, Oh, like I I could tell, like this is one on a rewatch, you're probably catching a lot of stuff.

SPEAKER_02 1:34:48

So yeah, I was just I was just gonna watch skim through it today, and I just started watching like that's it. I'm watching this.

SPEAKER_00 1:34:54

I'm booked. Yeah, I'm just down back in the game.

SPEAKER_02 1:34:56

Yep, yeah. I loved all the actors, literally every single person. Even the people, this the guy with the mustache in the booth, you know, he was so real. He's a guy you've seen on different places and stuff like that. And yeah, uh, yeah, I don't know. There were so many little things, even all the the executives at the CEA CCA, they're all eating their Caesar salad, they're all exactly the same.

SPEAKER_00 1:35:16

Yeah, they're nameless and faceless, and just just they all look the same, they all dress the same, they're eating the same, they talk the same.

SPEAKER_02 1:35:24

These are guys who know the industry from the inside out, and they call that shit out, man. And uh, I thought it was brilliant. So, all right, man. Well, I think we did it. We uh I thought this might be a five-hour podcast because there's so much to talk about, but we got through it.

SPEAKER_00 1:35:37

Could have been, yeah. Yeah, um, wait, is this this is this is the first A plus I've given uh on the pod. Is this our first A plus?

SPEAKER_02 1:35:44

Did we not? I did we not give Maltese Falcon an A plus. I might have given a Falcon. I think I gave that one an A. I think I gave it an A. Um, I think I gave that one an A plus because it's much fair. There's not one thing I don't like about that movie. Yeah, yeah. Hard to believe me, who it's very tough to please. Two A pluses so far.

SPEAKER_00 1:36:01

Yeah, no shit. Yeah, yeah. This is my first A plus.

SPEAKER_02 1:36:04

You know what I like about this particular particular pick? I knew when I re the the movie, um the other movies that I've you know that I've recommended that we do. Uh I I sort of had an opinion about them before I recommended them. This I had none. This is all new. This was all new to me, too. So this is like just a great for me to learn another movie that I yeah, you know, thought I knew, but I didn't, obviously.

SPEAKER_00 1:36:27

I mean, incredible choice, yeah. So uh and yeah, one I've been wanting to re-watch and be like, I'll get to it, I'll get to it. So I know man. Holy shit, man. Cannot recommend it enough. So absolutely.

SPEAKER_02 1:36:39

All right, do you have a uh so it's your your your pick for the next FOD?

SPEAKER_00 1:36:45

Oh, it is. So I was actually gonna go in a completely different direction, but after watching this uh and doing a little research, um Aaron Sorkin uh thanked um Chayevsky and referenced network when he won the Oscar really screenwriting for the social network. I'll be damned. Okay, what I'm gonna pick. The social network. Just sort of in the theme movie I saw I think once in the theater. Um yeah, but uh uh yeah, I found the research and Aaron Sorkin referenced this movie Chaevsky in his acceptance speech. So I figured, well, why not? Just keep it going.

SPEAKER_02 1:37:27

Yeah, I think it's a great idea. That's a movie that I've been needing to revisit as well. I remember enjoying it. I don't remember a whole lot about it, but I remember enjoying it in the theater when I saw it.

SPEAKER_00 1:37:37

So yeah, yeah, me too. So that's the pick.

SPEAKER_02 1:37:40

Perfect. Well, hey, man, let's uh remember to like, subscribe, uh, shoot us a message if you want. My name, Johnny at Johnnycardanelli.com, is the email if you want to email us and uh we do respond and leave us a rating, and we'll see you guys next month at a Century of Movies. Yeah,