Parental Rights, Legislative Battles, and Why the Fight for Freedom Never Stops | Tim Lambert

Every time the Texas legislature meets, our freedom is on the line. That's not a talking point — it's the reality Tim Lambert has been living for over 30 years.

This week, I'm sitting down with Tim Lambert, founder of the Texas Home School Coalition, for a wide-ranging conversation about what it actually takes to protect parental rights in Texas — session after session, bill after bill.

We get into the ESA program and what the demand is really telling us about what parents want. We talk about dual credit access for homeschool students, why some universities are still pushing back, and how opening up career and technical education could transform outcomes for kids who are ready to build real skills before they ever graduate. We also tackle the lie we've been telling an entire generation — that college is the only path forward — and what it looks like to finally start correcting that.

But the through line in all of it is this: passing a bill doesn't mean the work is done. Legislation has to be implemented, protected, and defended. And families need someone in their corner who understands every bill moving through the Capitol and what it means for their kids.

That's exactly what the Texas Homeschool Coalition does — and Tim has been leading that charge longer than most people have been paying attention.

If you care about where education in Texas is headed, this conversation is one you don't want to miss.

Listen, share, and stay in the fight.

About The Ashley B. Cash Show: The Ashley B. Cash Show features conversations with education leaders, policy experts, parents, teachers and reform advocates who are working to transform K-12 education. Host Ashley B. Cash brings her perspective as both a parent and business owner to explore systemic education issues and practical solutions for creating better outcomes for students, families, and communities.

About Ashley:  As both a mother and business owner, Ashley brings a unique dual perspective to education reform advocacy, driven by her desire for better educational outcomes for future generations and informed by her firsthand experience with the skills gap facing employers today. Her passion for transforming K-12 education stems from witnessing the real-world consequences of educational failures and recognizing the critical need for a system that prepares students for diverse career pathways, not just college. Through this podcast, Ashley champions solutions including aptitude-based education tracks, expanded school choice, practical skills integration, and alternative career pathways that align with students' individual strengths and interests.

Follow @AshleyBCashOfficial on Instagram & @Ashley Bowes Cash on Facebook.

Visit www.AshleyBCashOfficial.com for more content and features. 

Transcript

SPEAKER_00 0:00

Welcome back to the Ashley V Cash Show. I'm Ashley. And today I'm so excited. We're going to talk about transformational change to our K-12 system needs. And I'm bringing back a familiar voice, Tim Lambert. He is the founder of the Texas Homeschool Coalition and the Family Freedom Project. Tim has been so instrumental and is a hugely effective advocate for parental rights in Texas and for homeschool families. If you caught his last episode, you already know Tim has been in the thick of some of the biggest legislative battles for homeschool families and for families all across our education system. Tim is a true change maker for our kids, and there's a lot on the table this session worth talking about. Tim, welcome back to the show. Let's get into it.

SPEAKER_01 0:51

Thank you. Thanks for having me back.

SPEAKER_00 0:55

Well, I'm so glad that you're here. I had such a great uh visit with you the last time you were on the show. And I just wanted to get you back, you know, before we start ramping up for the next legislative session. I know there are so many great things going on, both things that came out of the last legislative session that we're still working on and that are transforming things now. And then let's talk about what you're planning for the future. But um, you and I both talked recently about how great the um the Texas freedom accounts or the parent choice um bill is doing and the great things that are coming out of that. Tell me a little bit about what you know.

SPEAKER_01 1:35

Yeah, so we have uh our team's been working directly with the controller's office and with the contractor who's doing that program. So as of the last count, you know, there was a court order extending the deadline. And so at this point, there are almost 250,000 applicants. Um about 20% of those are homeschoolers, and so what what we've just heard from the comptroller's office is tier one and tier two will probably be fully funded. So that's that's low-income folks and special needs families, so those will be totally funded, and then the rest are probably going to be on a lottery uh basis. So I think it's clear to should be clear to the public and the legislature there's a great need for this, and uh the demand is great, and so we expect to see that um examined and uh perhaps expanded. The other thing that I think it's interesting, Ashley, is uh I think the numbers we saw from the controller's office is only about 20% of the applicants are actually leaving public schools. So that is significant. So that means that parents now in the public school system have a real choice and they can make that choice. And uh the interesting thing is, in spite of what the public education lobby has to try to tell us, this is not gonna destroy public education. Uh those school districts are getting more money than they've ever had before, and uh and parents leaving is not gonna impact those public schools.

SPEAKER_00 3:09

You know, one of the things I found really interesting about this whole debate, and this goes back to things that we talk about, how the people who do not want us to transform the K-12 education system always tweak the narrative, right? And they try to change it. And one thing they kept telling public schools and public school families was this was going to destroy, it was going to defund their schools. And I had to go around regularly and tell people, no, this is an additional$1 billion from the general fund. This does not have to do with any of the dollars that were already set aside for public school. And it's really fascinating when you tell people that, they're like, oh, and you're like, this is why you need to be careful. What TASB says and what the teachers' unions say is not always the truth. It is usually some twist on the narrative. And we've got to be really careful listening to those people because they're really trying to make sure we don't transform the K-12 education system.

SPEAKER_01 4:08

Yeah, that's exactly right, Ashley. And we saw the same thing with the homeschool community. So there was all sorts of uh fear and uh uncertainty and doubt. They were really promoting the same thing. It's gonna destroy homeschooling, we're gonna be regulated by the state, none of none of which is true. So the interesting thing, Ashley, uh we've been talking, we talked to the legislature as they were pushing this. We've also been talking to the comptroller's office. We've uh we would like to see um uh changes made in this program in the future. So, right now, what you you have to say, I'm a homeschooler or I'm a public school student or I'm a private school student. And so that money is following the children, but it's actually going to systems. Right. So, as homeschoolers, what we would love is to say, you know what, let's use that money so that it's related to functions. I want to do um special needs uh uh uh counseling with my student, or I want to buy curriculum. But right now it's like, okay, if you're a homeschooler, then you get if you're accepted, you get$2,000 per student. If you go to a private school, then that school, you you get the money going to the school. So it's much, much better than what we had, but it's still not as um as specific as we would like to see it and give those families more choices.

SPEAKER_00 5:30

I agree. And I know last session, Kent Dusendorf had a bill that would actually attach it to the student or to the teacher rather than to a school or a type of school. And I think that is like I think there's room for both things, right? Um and and and I kind of like that where you could actually take your money and hire your own teacher, and maybe you and three friends got together, and between the three or four of y'all, you had 10 kids. Well, at$10,000 a pop for a child, right? That would really be meaningful money to a teacher who could then privately teach those or homeschool teach those 10 kids, but somebody who's who's licensed and and um certified to do so. And that I think that would be a neat option as well.

SPEAKER_01 6:20

Yeah, that and you know, Ashley, that's that's what happened during the pandemic is you had uh three or four families whose kids were in the same classroom say, Hey, let's just let's just hire our own teacher and we'll do that. Those micro schools were what developed. And I think those of us who are, you know, free enterprise, free market kind of folks recognize that the more flexibility you give the consumer, and in this case the parents, the better product you're gonna get, uh the better timing and all of that. So so anyway, we're we're greatly excited about the the uh the current response. And uh I think uh this has just blown everyone away because this is the largest program in the country, out of the box, and I think we're gonna see uh great things in the future.

SPEAKER_00 7:09

Well, and I think that what we're going to need to see is that this program needs to be bigger. So um what can parents do to contact their legislators and tell them how they'd like to see this program transform, if they'd like to see them put more money to it. Like what what what are you telling parents to do?

SPEAKER_01 7:30

Yeah, so so I think what we're gonna see, Ashley, is we're gonna see I've already mentioned almost 250,000 applicants. So that means only the the top, the the first two tiers, special needs and low income, will be fully funded. The rest are gonna be on a lottery system. So I think what we're gonna be telling those parents who made an application that didn't get that, they need to follow up with their state representative and their state senator and say, hey, this is a good beginning, but we need to expand this program to give families more choices as they they look for uh those opportunities. And that's what legislators, you know this, Ashley, that's what legislators are looking for. You call your legislator, you live in his district, you're the his state uh state rep or you're a state senator, those are the folks they want to hear from. And so they should tell them about um what they're excited about the program, if they got uh if they got chosen, if not, they need to say this is a great thing. We need to expand it. And I think everyone knows this is gonna be a topic, a great topic of discussion in the next legislative session.

SPEAKER_00 8:40

I think it is too. And I think that it really, I mean, I'm so grateful that 250,000 people have applied because there were people out there saying, oh, this isn't gonna go anywhere and no one's going to apply. Private schools, you know, just like you talked about the what homeschool families were saying, private schools were saying, oh, we can't take this state money because it's going to put regulations on us that we don't want. And that's not the case, right? Um, so I'm I'm glad to see it roll out. I'm excited by the volume of people that have applied. I'm excited that it is doing exactly what it was planned to do, where it's going to low-income families and special needs first. And um I I think that there's just more and better to come. And everybody make sure that you go out and talk to your legislatures and make sure they know this is a good program and that you'd like to see it expanded. So, yeah.

SPEAKER_01 9:31

Ashley, that's such a good point. I get, I still get questions from homeschoolers about isn't this letting the government get their nose under the tent? And Ashley, the the point I make to folks, look, every time the legislature meets, we are all at risk. Our freedom is at risk. That's why we have a whole team in Austin, every legislative special. We we spend tens of thousands of dollars in Austin because we know that mistakes can be made. And so we're there to give input on what we want. But Ashley, there's a lot of legislators who are well-meaning who write legislation and they don't understand and they get something wrong. And so my point to people is we have to be involved in the process. If you're not involved in the process, you're going to be a victim of the government.

SPEAKER_00 10:20

Well, and we've got to make sure, and this is goes back to why I'm transforming education, right? That we need to be not just listening to the talking heads or listening to what someone else is telling you and believing it is fact. We have to do our own research. And in this case, that means going to the Texas government website, pulling down the piece of legislation and reading it for yourself and then asking the questions of the people who are writing it, saying, does this mean X, Y, and Z? You know, not just believing what a TASB, Texas Association of School Board representatives telling you, or a student or a teachers' union is telling you, or even what you're hearing from your own private school or or other, you know, homeschool families, you really need to do the research yourself and make sure that you know what it actually says and means.

SPEAKER_01 11:09

Ashley, I couldn't agree with you more. And here's the other thing that I point out to people uh you can be a sphere of influence. So, Ashley, when we got involved politically in the 1980s because we were trying to defend our freedom from the from the legislature or the government, this was back in the days, Ashley, of uh answering machines.

SPEAKER_02 11:31

Right.

SPEAKER_01 11:32

And we got involved, we started endorsing candidates, and Ashley, what we would do in Lubbock in those days is on our outgoing message, we would say, here's who we're voting for in the Republican primary. And Ashley, it was incredible. Our phone rang off the wall because people were looking for someone they agreed with that could help give them some information. And everybody that does what you said, when you read the legislation and you ask the questions, you become a sphere of influence and you can have a greater impact just by sharing with your family and friends, you know, what you've learned.

SPEAKER_00 12:10

Well, just like we're doing today, right? We're bringing the truth to all the listeners and viewers, and hopefully a place that they can come and find out what's actually happening and what they can do about it. That's that's the whole point of this is to create a movement of people that are well informed that can then take action down at the state legislature and push for the transformational change that we need. Because the other side, they have that. They have that in masses, right? And they give them false narratives and tell them to go and talk to their legislators. And then very good legislation that would help these kids and transform the system half the time ends up either watered down or not passed at all. And that's what we've got to work against.

SPEAKER_01 12:52

Exactly, exactly right. Yeah, so we're I I actually I'm just pumped. I'm really excited about the the Texas Education Savings Fund. Uh, and we're gonna be it's gonna be greater. We're we're having great success. And uh, and I think the governor's still very excited about this, the lieutenant governor, the speaker. I think we are really in a great position to come back and fine-tune this program and make it available to more people.

SPEAKER_00 13:21

Well, just the fact that 250,000, almost 250,000 families have applied to date, I think that that will get all of the legislature excited and be like, okay, this is something what we did last session worked. Now we need to double down on it. It's what I'm hoping for. So, and what we're going to be pushing for as well, right? And and in talking about the changes that we'd like to see in the program. Now that we've rolled it out once, how can we make it better? Like, how can we expand it to more families, but how can we also make it work better for everybody? And that's the opportunity we have, one of the many opportunities we have coming this session, right? That you and I will both be working on. So let's talk about some other legislative priorities that uh that you all have with the Texas Homeschool Coalition.

SPEAKER_01 14:05

You know, one of the things we're uh probably in almost 25 years ago, in 2000 or 2001, uh, we were involved in passing legislation to allow um private school students, including homeschool students, to participate, excuse me, to participate in uh dual credit courses at community colleges. And that has been a huge, huge success. And you have a lot of homeschoolers today, Ashley, who graduate from high school with two years of college credit under their under their belt because of this process. And so we would like we are working as hard as we can to uh expand that uh in this last legislative session. Uh there are now four-year colleges, universities who are offering dual credit courses. And so we've been involved in some uh implementing some legislation. Ashley, you know, this will not be a surprise to you, but when you pass a bill, that doesn't actually mean that it's gonna automatically go into effect and it's gonna work the way it was intended to.

SPEAKER_02 15:15

Yes.

SPEAKER_01 15:16

And so we we've been involved with uh the policy process. Uh there's a uh uh Sam Houston uh State University has uh has actually pushed back on allowing homeschoolers to participate in those kind of courses at their four-year university, and so we're crazy because they need more students, not less. Exactly, exactly. So we've been involved in that process. Uh there's some litigation that's been filed. We didn't file the legislation, but we filed amicus brief. So we're working in that process. One of the things we would like to see is financial aid for students doing dual credit classes. And Ashley, this the thing you talk about so much is giving people a real education, giving them a place so that they can get go forward in the future. And for many, many students, doing dual credit classes and even and giving them financial aid to do that would be a huge step in expanding that process. So that's one of the things that we're looking at is doing some financial aid for uh students doing dual credit classes or courses.

SPEAKER_00 16:25

Well, and I think that would benefit all students and not just homeschool families, but all students. And I think that's really important. Um, you know, that's one of the reasons that I'm advocating for four tracks through high school, even in the public system, right? Or especially in the public system, but um, so that kids, for example, you could squeeze all of your necessary classes, maybe not require chemistry, biology, and physics or trigonometry for kids that don't want to go to college, but like say for the trade track, which is one I envision. You would go, you would take your regular high school classes through your sophomore year, and then you would actually start getting your trade license, your junior and senior year, and finish it by the time you graduate high school so that you're prepared and ready to go into the workforce and have a good job and make good money, right? But those I believe that we could have the state pay for that because right now all these kids are having to take classes they don't understand why they're taking them. And then they go on and they graduate high school, and then now they've got to find the money to pay to go to trade school or to go to college or to go to the small business administration and and learn business classes to be a small business owner. We need to back that up. We need to put that back into the high school year so they're ready at 18 for the job force.

SPEAKER_01 17:51

Ashley, you're you're reading my mind. Uh, another thing we want to do, exactly what you said, is we want to open up career and technical courses under the dual credit stuff.

SPEAKER_02 18:03

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 18:03

So this would mean exactly what you're saying. This would mean, you know, the student who wants to be a welder or an electrician, or he wants to be a have a business as an electrician, he could start taking those classes as a sophomore and get ready for that. And Ashley, this you know this very well. Uh, you know, we're in the digital age, AI is moving, things are going to change, but you know what? Uh welders are gonna be make able to make a six-figure income.

SPEAKER_00 18:31

Electricians, welders, especially underwater welders today are making over$250,000. And in the oil field, they're making over$150,000,$200,000. I mean, there is so much money available for these kids without going to college. And we need to, I was talking to Susan Perez the other day on the podcast, and we talked about how we have done kids a disservice by saying everyone needs to go to college. And we've made people look down on people who aren't going to college. And we've got to normalize telling kids, go be the thing that God intended you to be. If you want to be a tradesman, we love that. We value that. There's importance in that. Our society needs that. This is a national security emergency. Yes, go seek out what is intended for you. And we've got to tell them that it's great and stop looking down our noses at people who aren't going to college. Like there are entrepreneurs out there making millions of dollars that have never been to college. There are these great careers that these kids have without going to college. And I'm not saying that some people shouldn't go to college. If that is their intended purpose and that's what they want to do, great. But everybody else, we should value all of these jobs, not just the ones that go to college.

SPEAKER_01 19:52

Yep, absolutely. Ashley, I don't know if you know, if you know Mike Rowe. Yes, who did dirty jobs. He's got he's got a uh a nonprofit and they give uh what does he call them? But they give uh scholarships to these kids who are doing exactly what we're talking about, going to get your uh your license to be a welder or electrician or those sorts of things.

SPEAKER_00 20:14

Plumber, all the dirty jobs. Um in fact, he just came out and announced this last week that kids need to start applying because he has he got$10 million for scholarships. So um people should go look at microworks if they want to look up those scholarships. Absolutely. You know, but and and that is great, but right now those kids have to graduate high school before they can do that. And I want to pull it back earlier in their life, get rid of some classes they don't need that. I don't think every child needs chemistry, biology, and physics. We could pull the important things out of those and create a life science class that covers those things, free up the time in the like say what we are now calling their junior and senior year, for them to actually graduate high school with a trade degree, a trade license. You know, I think that's huge. So needed. I'm glad you're working on it too. We probably should uh work on a little uh on on a bill together and and see how far we can push it because we we are happy to do that.

SPEAKER_01 21:18

Uh we, you know, uh I always love what Ronald Reagan said. Uh it's it's amazing what you get done if you don't care who gets the credit.

SPEAKER_00 21:25

Yes, I don't need my I don't need my name on it. I just want it for the kids. Yeah. And actually, I need to tell you about this, and and everybody that's listening can hear this as well. Um, I'm in the process of putting together an education roundtable. And I'm hoping to have it either late April, probably it's gonna be early May, um, down in Austin. And I want everyone like us who are advocates for transformational education to come together and talk about okay, what do we want? What is the goal? What are we trying to achieve here for these kids? Right. And and when my Number one goal is that every single educator, every single education institution, every single advocate puts safety and student outcomes as the priorities.

SPEAKER_01 22:12

Amen.

SPEAKER_00 22:13

Because right now we do not have that in our it's not in our state board of education. It's not in any of the school board mission policies. Usually it's finances, which is that, yeah, that should be on there, but further down. So like I'd like to see that happen. Um, but I'd like us to all, we we've got a system that we know is broken. We have home parents going to homeschool because they know the system's broken, but we also have families who are stuck in a broken system. It's not doing the best for our kids. So, how do we transform it and how do we do it faster? And I think it's going to take people like yourself and it takes this homeschool coalition, people like myself, people like Texas Public Policy Foundation and like Project 2036 to come together. Because right now we are all just plugging holes on the sinking ship and finding little tweaks. This system is broken and it's broken for the kids today, but it's going to be even more broken when kids who are starting school today are graduating in 15 years, trying to go into the workforce. And if we don't do transformational change, and if we don't all come together and say, what is the goal? What does it need to look like 15 years from now? Not what does it need to what how do we need to tweak it for next year, but what does it need to look like in 15 years for these kids and start making that like we need to make transformational change in the next three legislative sessions that will show up in 10 years.

SPEAKER_01 23:41

Yes.

SPEAKER_00 23:41

You know what I mean?

SPEAKER_01 23:42

Ashley, absolutely. And Ashley, you know this. When when I got involved 35 years ago, I we would go down to Austin, write a bill during the session, and you know, that's that's not the way it works. So we what we do is we do exactly what you're saying. We have work groups, so we get people who are like-minded on our issue. We draft a bill uh, you know, before the session starts. We we vet it, we work with legislators, we file, they file it in November. And so this is a process where you what we do is we take over what didn't pass last legislative legislative session, we plan it for this one, we make 12 weeks, we go talk to people. So it's a it's a long multi-year process, and that's why it's important for all of us to work together on these things.

SPEAKER_00 24:29

Yep. Well, and I think there's so many people out there who are advocating for the same thing. One of the things I've seen happen, though, that is a little distressing, and why I want to build together this round table is two groups not in communication with each other will come on the same issue with two bills. And what happens is then people get confused. And then sometimes neither one of those bills ends up going anyplace. And there it's a good idea. And if we could just bring people together and say, hey, you two groups are working on the same thing, can you take one bill? Like, let's find one bill. And then all of us, all these groups go support each other's bills to make this transformation happen. Because it's gonna it like the other side, they've got millions of voices that they turn to this topic, right? We've got to take all of our different groups, bring them together, and turn all these voices to make this change.

SPEAKER_01 25:22

Yep. That's exactly right. What we learned a long time ago is exactly what you're saying. If you have two two or different groups working on the same legislation, different bills, it's difficult to pass. And you put legislators who carry that legislation in a bad position.

SPEAKER_02 25:38

Right.

SPEAKER_01 25:39

So we learned a long time ago, actually, exactly what you're talking about. We get everybody that cares about a topic and we put a work group together and we try to we try to develop legislation and develop consensus among all the people that are interested in that issue so we can go to the legislators and say, hey, this is a deal, we're all on board, we'll work with you. And that's how you get things done in the legislature. That takes a problem. That takes time.

SPEAKER_00 26:03

Well, and and you brought up a good point. Like people think, okay, we passed a bill, and so now we're going to see it roll out next year. The fact that Texas did such an amazing job on rolling out the Texas freedom accounts that we've now had 250,000 is amazing that we got that done so fast. Um, like HB 27 last year, which was a bill that I was a huge advocate for, which is going to require a semester of personal financial literacy for every high school student to graduate, that does not start until the class of 2030. And that's how much time they take, right? So it passed in 2025, but will it will not actually be required until 2030. And so that's what I'm talking about. The things we're doing this year are really four or five years from now, right? And then in that process of preparing HB 27, getting it through TEA, it's now sitting at SBOE with the TKS. You know, they're trying to say, are these the TEAKS and get those passed, which hasn't happened yet. But we've come across a problem with the bill. And that is that the bill requires that we have an AP class. And what most people don't realize is in Texas, we are now writing a lot of our own curriculum because we have found things in other curriculum, especially post-COVID, um, that had things in it that as as parents, we don't agree with, whether that's see critical race theory or um DEI, um, that that we think every child should, you know, all be considered great is what we want, right? And um so in putting in the bill that you are required to have an AP class, all AP classes, the curriculum is written by the college board. Oh and what we have found is that they have one personal financial literacy curriculum and it is full of communism. And so one of the things I'm gonna be working on this year is a tweak to HB27 to try to say we don't have to require an AP class, we can create an honors class. You know, so it's still a second level, it's still a higher level, but we will have more control over, you know, making sure it actually talks about capitalism and and you know, freedom and different things instead of communism.

SPEAKER_01 28:29

Yep. Ashley, that you're exactly right. You know, that's that's how this process works. You know, I back in the 80s, I used to think, you know, if we could just get this uh Supreme Court decision on a homeschooling pass, then we could forget all this political stuff. And I'm I now realize that this is an ongoing process. You pass a bill and then you find out, oh, there's a tweak that we need to make or there's a problem. So many times we'll come back several sessions just to refine or get this thing completely right. So it is a process that we have to go through. And if we're not doing it, then the people that oppose our worldview actually uh get involved and they they uh they muck up the works.

SPEAKER_00 29:10

Yes, for sure. All right. So we've talked about the career course access, which is where homeschool kids will have access to career and technical. We've talked about the dual credit financial aid, and we talked about the education savings counts and the tweaks that the and the expansion that we'd like to see there. Um, are those primarily the Texas Homeschool Coalition's top three?

SPEAKER_01 29:36

Yeah, those would be our our top three. And of course, the other thing that uh, as I've already mentioned, Ashley, we the other thing we do is we make sure we read every piece of legislation and so we we find those bills that could impact us uh unintentionally many times to go to the legislature. So so yeah, that's the those are the that's the agenda we're gonna be pushing, and then we'll be reading all these other bills to make sure that nothing uh detrimental uh moves in the legislation that would harm us.

SPEAKER_00 30:05

Well, and it's it's not always intentionally detrimental, right? It's like one group looking at it from only their perspective. And so I've often found that when you find that, you can most of the time you can go and talk to them and get it tweaked, changed to be inclusive of everybody. Um, and yet sometimes there are people who are very, it's my way or the highway, and you're just like, oh, okay.

SPEAKER_01 30:30

But um actually I have a story I love to tell. Uh this is I don't know, 10 or 15 years ago, and we had we found a bill, we didn't find it early on, and so the the author of the bill was really unhappy with this when we came to him uh because it was actually uh about to have a hearing, and he was unhappy with this. He said, Why did you bring us this earlier? And I said, Well, I'm sorry, we just didn't see it till now, and uh and we we'd like to work with you and get you to fix it. And he actually he uh he ignored us. And so the day the week before the hearing, we started making calls to our people, uh, and all of a sudden he started getting calls from people on the committee and he said, Okay, wait, wait, wait. Because that because now it was a question of, oh, if I don't fix this, you're gonna kill my bill. Of course, we didn't say it that bluntly, but uh but that's that's the way that works. And so the legislators, we want to be respectful to them uh and we want to be helpful, but you know, when it comes down to it, if you're pushing a bill that is gonna hurt us or our people, then you know, we're gonna do the best we can to kill it.

SPEAKER_00 31:34

Well, I mean, that's the thing is is what you're working for and what I'm working for are for all of the students to have the best possible outcomes. And that doesn't matter if they're in public school, private school, homeschool, charter school, they all need to have the best outcomes that they can possibly have to have safety and the best outcomes. And and um I think that there are more people out that out in the world wanting that than the opposite. So we but we've just all got to coalesce and come together as a movement to make sure and push that. Um I think that you also have some legislative priorities that you're bringing from the Family Freedom Project, and that's another you're you're also the chairman and founder of that as well. Would you tell people a little bit about that and how that came to be?

SPEAKER_01 32:23

Yeah. So Ashley, the when we started uh homeschooling in the 1980s, everybody was really afraid of CPS because these people could come and take your children. And we saw those kind of things. And so in the process of uh securing our freedom to make decisions for our children educationally, we also began to understand, and we we had our first litigation on this uh in in 2010, so 16 years ago, we began to understand that we had to make changes uh in CPS to protect the fundamental God-given right of parents to make decisions for their children, not just in education, but in their upbringing. And uh so we've been working on that for many, many years. Uh actually in 2017, we fast passed our first CPS reform legislation. And this won't surprise you. We were we were kicking, fighting against the family, uh, the Family Law Foundation, which is the group representing family law attorneys, and it took us a long time. The first bill we passed was we just uh we just clarified the definition of neglect, and we made that change, and actually, in one year, that simple legislative change resulted in a 40% reduction of CPS removals of children from homes. Yeah, and so that was the beginning of us understanding that we had to we had, and again, it's like we're talking about now here about education, we're doing this for all families. Yes, and so we are continuing to make those kinds of reforms. Uh actually, we've actually changed the culture in the legislature. Uh, and in the last session, uh, we got the legislature to pass a constitutional amendment that 70% of voters last November agreed to, and we were the first state in the nation to put the fundamental right of parents into our Texas constitution. And so that gives us greater now, all of a sudden, uh, this is clearly in the Constitution. Uh, actually, we had a bill before, uh, not a bill, uh, we filed an amicus brief with the Texas Supreme Court just uh a couple of months ago on a CPS uh bill or excuse me, case, and four of the nine judges in that hearing asked these CPS about what about this new constitutional amendment that we just passed for parental rights? And they they force CPS to brief that and come back to the court. So that's the kind of thing we're doing, Ashley, is we Texas has become a leader nationally in changing these the culture to understand that just the simple act of removing a child from the home is traumatic and and detrimental to that child and to the family.

SPEAKER_00 35:26

So we're not saying that children who are in danger shouldn't be removed, but we're saying it in some instances the system is weaponized against parents for things that are not endangering the child. And and and yeah, right?

SPEAKER_01 35:42

Exactly right. And actually, the problem that we usually have with CPS is they don't follow the law, they don't follow their own rules, and so we you know we're involved in several cases right now. So anyway, that's that's kind of what the Family Freedom Project is for, is we're for uh uh requiring CPS to follow the rules, to follow the law. Ashley, you may know this, but criminals in a criminal case have more rights than a parent who is going through a CPS investigation with CPS.

SPEAKER_02 36:15

Yes.

SPEAKER_01 36:16

And that's just that's just wrong. So we're we're working to uh to make some changes. One of those changes we it was a bill we passed last session, but I think the governor misunderstood the bill and and vetoed it. But so what we want to do is right now, if you're indigent as a as a parent, the court can appoint you an attorney, but you don't get to pick that attorney.

SPEAKER_02 36:38

Right.

SPEAKER_01 36:38

So right now we have a lot of families who are in these CPS cases, and the court appointed attorney, he really doesn't care about the case, he doesn't know the law, he's just trying to do it.

SPEAKER_00 36:48

It's just his time. It's his time to take a pro bono, and he's there because he has to be, but not because he wants to be. And yeah.

SPEAKER_01 36:55

Exactly. So what we want is for this family to be able to choose their counsel, and that way we can provide them an attorney who knows about parental rights, who knows about CPS law, and actually do that. So we're we're working to do that. Actually, the other thing we're trying to do, or another thing, is uh in Texas we have a child abuse registry. And it it's not uncommon for a parent or a family to go through an investigation and the CPS to find we don't find any uh reason here, there's nothing here, and that yet CPS will put them on the child abuse registry.

SPEAKER_00 37:33

So they were accused of something, then it was found to not be true, and they're still put on the registry.

SPEAKER_01 37:39

That's right. That's and so that that can be detrimental to your job uh opportunities or your life. And so we've been working the last several sessions to try to upgrade that process so we don't hurt innocent families by putting them on the child abuse registry.

SPEAKER_00 37:57

And an example of that would be I had it happen to a friend of mine where he had gotten a divorce and it was very bitter. And then his spouse came back a year or so later and said, You have abused abused our child. There was a full investigation done. He was found to not have done it, and and yet he still could be on the child abuse registry, even though he was completely exonerated. And it and it was really just one parent bitter against another parent trying to cause havoc in their life, and there was no truth to it, the children hadn't been harmed, and yet this person could still be left on the child abuse registry.

SPEAKER_01 38:35

Yes. Ashley, what really got us started on that was the Pardo case. This was uh a few years ago. There was a one of our member families had a four-year-old special needs child. CPS violated their own processes, they took that child. Uh, we litigated and we took the case of the Texas Supreme Court. We got the child returned. Uh, the court said you never showed the child was in danger. And eventually a CPS said to the judge, Judge, we want to dismiss this case with prejudice. That means we don't have a problem with this family. We would dismiss it with prejudice and it can't be brought back. The judge agreed to that, and actually the next year they put them on the child abuse registry. And we spent a year getting them off the child abuse registry. So it's just it's just wrong. You know, there's no reason to do that. So that's a that's a huge thing, and that's that's at the top of our list this session.

SPEAKER_00 39:29

Yeah. And um, I think that's really important because that can really destroy not only that parent's life, but it impacts the children, you know, down the road with the parent not being able to get as good a job. And, you know, it can create systemic cyclical problems. And that's not to say that parents who have done that, if they've done that, they absolutely should be on the registry. But when they're exonerated, they should not be, right? That's what we're advocating for.

SPEAKER_01 39:59

So absolutely, yeah. So those are the kind of things that we're working on. Uh and I'm I'm very excited. Uh Ashley, uh a couple of weeks ago I saw that the South Dakota legislature, uh, the how the Senate passed a parental rights piece of legislation. And when it got to the House, now in the House uh in South Dakota, they have 65 House members. They only have five Democrats. And Ashley, the attorney general, opposed that parental rights bill, and the Republicans killed it. And uh, we were talking about that uh in our staff and uh Jeremy Newman, our VP of litigation, reminded me it took us eight years to change the culture in the Texas legislature to understand that removing a child by CPS harms the child. And it took that before we wound up uh passing our parental rights amendment. So this is a process, you know, you gotta you gotta help the legislators understand that. So we're very excited about we've got a great legislature, the governor, Lieutenant Governor, and the speaker are all great people on our side on these issues. So we're very excited about going forward and continuing to make Texas uh a beam of light uh in the country on on these family rights issues.

SPEAKER_00 41:20

I'm so excited about this legislative session. Um you mentioned something I think is really important that Governor Abbott, Lieutenant Governor Patrick, and Speaker Burroughs worked so well together last session, um, which is why we got for the first time in 30. Most people don't realize that those education savings accounts, the TIFA, they took 32 years to get passed. Texas Public Policy Foundation was actually created to because they could not get those passed. And it wasn't until we got the leadership between Abbott, um, Lieutenant Governor Patrick, and Speaker Burroughs that we actually got that passed. And we passed the biggest bill in the entire country ever passed. And and hopefully now we're gonna double down on it this session. I'm really excited.

SPEAKER_01 42:11

Yeah. And Ashley, I just I I remember uh I met Dustin Burrows when he was a precinct chairman in Lubbock. I worked hard when he ran for the legislature, and Ashley, this is how it works. You know, it's like you know, they say you don't turn a battleship sharply. It takes a long time to turn it. And that's where we are in Texas. You know, people like you and I have been working for a long for decades, and we are now beginning to see the fruit of that labor. And I'm I'm with you. I'm very excited.

SPEAKER_00 42:44

I'm so excited about this legislative session because I think we have such an opportunity with these three leaders, and they work together well, and that's so critical. Um, I am actually bringing a piece this year, and it's big. Um I'm bringing several, but the biggest one and that I'm hoping for is to create an education task force. And I want it to be so I'm not asking for an interim charge because that would just be representatives and senators. I'm asking to create a task force for education that looks at what does education need to. So I talked to you about the education roundtable, and that's just those of us bringing bills this session, right? That's that's a short-term thing. What I'm asking for now is a task force to take a step back and look holistically at education. And I want it to be some people out of the government, but I want it to be some people like you and myself, um, Mandy Drogan, um, Aaron Harris, some people who are really in the thick of policy and looking at what's actually happening from an outside perspective on education. I want some educators involved, but I also want some really amazing business leaders. To tell us where is business going? So, what do these kids who are graduating 15 and 20 years from now, what will their workforce look like? What skills do they need to have? And how do we take the system that we have now and create it to match that in the future, right? So this is the transformational change I'm talking about. The system today is not working for the kids of today. It's definitely not going to work for the kids of 15, 20 years from now. And um, so how do we tweak the system and for this task force to come back and say, okay, here are bills that we currently exist. These are outdated and antiquated. They need to go away. These bills are good, but they don't have any teeth. We need to give them teeth so they can be enforced. And then, and then what do we need to do to transform the system and so bring back a plan, legislative plan that we can pass over the next two or three legislative sessions so that then we can implement it within the next 10 years.

unknown 44:57

Yep.

SPEAKER_00 44:58

Um, so that it's actually there and working for those kids of the future. And so that's my big, my big bill that I'm bringing this year. Um, but I have lots. I have about 15 other smaller ones that I'm looking at. Um, and like one is just transfer, you know, tweaking HB 27, so the financial literacy one. Um, I have one that is requiring that we make a priority of saying safety and children's outcome are the number two, the number one and number two priorities, right? And just putting that across all of education and all education agencies. Um and um, and then I have another one too, and this goes back to when you and I were talking about CTE and trades, um, where we have kids, every kid in junior high take aptitude and interest testing. And then we line it up with jobs because we're we're missing a key point of this. And I think homeschool families do a lot better at this than public school. We're not we're not putting this is why you're getting an education together with this is what you can do with this education, right? We're not connecting those points and telling kids, if you take these classes, then you can have this great career. And, you know, kids don't know what they don't know. And I I'm running into kids in college today who are getting ready to graduate college. And I'm like, what are you gonna be when you grow up? And they're like, I don't know. And I'm like, what do you mean? You've just gotten this, paid all this money and gotten this degree. You don't know what you're gonna do with it, right? I'm like, how do you even know you got the right degree? Um, and so we need to connect those dots for kids. And I think the aptitude testing and interest testing will help us connect those dots by saying, here's what you're innately good at, here's what you're interested in, and here's all the various things that you could do with it. And I think that will also help us get more kids into STEM because they may know they like science, but they may not know all the jobs that are out there that they could do with it that gets them even more excited about pursuing it, right?

SPEAKER_01 47:08

Amen. Amen. Preach it, sister.

SPEAKER_00 47:13

But um, and then and then one of the things that I have found super frustrating and I'm bringing a bill for is um there is no requirement on what accounting method schools use. And so you cannot compare schools to each other, even in the same district sometimes. Um, and so I'm just saying I'm putting a bill that says if you are receiving state funding, so people still have a choice, they could do whatever they want to do if they don't want the state funding. But if they want state funding, then they need to use a certain type of accounting method. And they need to use a certain ledger sheet that that so then would put things into the correct thing across the board for every school. So then we're looking, we're comparing apples to apples. And that's not, I want to be clear, that is not to find the bad actors, although we could definitely get rid of some of the waste, fraud, and abuse easier, right? But it actually has a really positive purpose, and that is when you find a school that is using less money to get better results for the kids, right? In outcomes, we can then go to them and say, what is it you are doing? And we can take that, we can automate it, systemize it, and replicate it across other schools, right? And but we've got to be able to yes, but we've got to be able to find it first. And right now we can't find it because none of them are doing the same thing. We can't compare apples to apples. So just a few of the things I'm working on for next session.

SPEAKER_01 48:52

But um great stuff.

SPEAKER_00 48:57

Super excited to be in the trenches with you though. And I know last session we got to work on a few things together, and you actually helped a young lady that I had befriended during session who was having some legal battles with her kids being removed from her through a divorce situation and some crazy counselors who were being paid by the husband to take her kids away from her. And um, I think we came to another conclusion, and I don't know if anything's happening with it, that in the family court of law, when a judge makes a ruling, there's no appealing it. There's no higher authority. And I think that's something that needs to be rectified as well in the in the judicial system.

SPEAKER_01 49:40

Yeah. We've got a uh uh a piece of legislation where clarifying about appellate review. So it would actually uh require an immediate appeal when children have not re been returned home. We're thinking about this with CPS cases, but you can do that. But our our goal is that there be an immediate appellate review, you know, because if you've got uh you've got low-income families that don't have the means and they get railroaded, you know.

SPEAKER_00 50:06

Or they get a lawyer that doesn't want to be a lawyer for them and is not actually advocating for them. And so they've got a good lawyer on the other side that just slam dunks it, um, and it's not really the family's fault and they haven't really done anything bad. They just got a bad lawyer. Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 50:20

Yeah, yeah. Yeah. Good.

SPEAKER_00 50:23

Well, gosh, okay. So anything else that we haven't covered today that you really want to make sure, or anything you want to go back and highlight um for people today?

SPEAKER_01 50:33

Yeah, I just think uh I'm excited as you are. I think we have laid the foundation on education savings accounts, the Texas Education Freedom Act. Uh, I think those are gonna be huge. I think we're gonna see the legislature clarify those, make them more helpful. Uh, and then I'm I'm excited about all this stuff. And Ashley, I just tell you that uh, you know, when I got involved uh in 1990 or 91, my first legislative session, I was just like a babe in the woods. You know, it it just takes a long time to learn the process, and you you meet people, you know. Uh so anyway, I'm excited because we have great leadership in Texas, and folks like you and I are participating. I just have really, really high hopes that we're gonna see some really great things in this legislative session. And thank you for doing all that you do to help us.

SPEAKER_00 51:25

Well, likewise, likewise. I mean, I think it takes more than a village, and the whole purpose of this podcast and all my social media is not so you can see my face, but it's so we can get the information out there and that we can bring parents, grandparents, teachers, and business leaders together to help us transform this education system. So it's about creating that movement and that coalition of people so that when you've got a great bill, I can tell them, hey, go and support this great bill, right? And um, and so that we can actually get the change for these kids that we really need. That's the most important thing. And um, okay, so where can people find you? I know that you've got you, you, you need funding, you need you need voices behind you. How can they find you? How can they help?

SPEAKER_01 52:14

So, Ashley, uh, we have two organizations. The Texas Homeschool Coalition is THSC.org. So for homeschool families, you can go there. We do a we'll have a our big conference, 6,000 people there in the woodlands in May. Uh, so if people want information, that's a great place to go. Uh, we have information for Spanish speaking homeschoolers, so all that sort of stuff there. Uh, our other site is the family freedom project, uh, fp.org or the familyfreedomproject.org. And actually, we do a lot of litigation there. We've got six cases that we're involved in right now. These are these are just terrible situations, and we've been in uh we've been in court this week in a trial for a family. We'll be we'll be updating that. But so people can go to both of those places and get information about uh all that work, and we're happy to reach to to uh help people. We have um our teachers membership, we have homeschool coaches, we help with curriculum, we do a lot of policy work related to uh all things, you know. We uh every once in a while we have somebody that has a problem getting a uh uh parent taught driver education because some some uh DMV guy doesn't know about homeschooling. So we we are actively involved in all those kinds of things. So thsc.org and familyfreedomproject.org.

SPEAKER_00 53:35

Well, I again I'm just so grateful to all the work that you've done all these years. And I know how many I have referred many parents to you who have been in a sticky situation with either even even kids in public school, you've helped, right? Let alone the ones in homeschool. Um, I I just appreciate how you're an advocate for all kids and all parents, and thank you for that. And um any last words?

SPEAKER_01 54:00

I thank you for your time. Let's let's do this again.

SPEAKER_00 54:03

Yeah, we will we will regularly be coming back together. I just want all the viewers to know that. Um, anytime we've got updates on things that we're doing policy-wise or a big case, we will have you back on so we can talk about that. And um there's good things happening this legislative session. I'm super excited about what we've done so far, but where we're going um for these kids. So that's the most important thing. Well, thank you so much for being here today. I appreciate it. My pleasure.

SPEAKER_02 54:32

Thank you, Kevin.

SPEAKER_00 54:33

And thank you to all the viewers out there. We appreciate you joining us today. And we will be discussing more things that we're doing to transform the K 12 education system next week. So please check back in. But for now, thank you and see you next time.