The Currency of Knowledge | Catherine Komen, Director of TTU Red to Black

What does it really take to change the way young people think about money — and can that change start before they ever open a bank account?

In this episode of the Ashley B. Cash Show, host Ashley sits down with Catherine Komen, Director of Red to Black at Texas Tech University — a financial literacy program that meets students where they are and helps them make a plan to get where they want to go, providing education, workshops, and coaching in a judgment-free environment. With over two decades of experience in the financial industry, Catherine brings both heart and expertise to one of the most important conversations we can have: how do we truly set the next generation up for financial success? 

Ashley and Catherine dig into why financial literacy can't wait — because the earlier we plant those seeds, the deeper the roots grow. They explore how to bring kids into the day-to-day financial operations of the home, why children absorb far more from what they observe than what they're told, and how to gently help young adults recognize the gaps between what they think they know and what they still need to learn. There's no shame in asking questions — in fact, seeking out professionals and leaning on trusted resources is one of the most powerful tools we have.

The conversation also gets real about the mindset work that underlies all financial progress. Money isn't good or evil — it's a tool. And the negative beliefs many of us grew up with around wealth can quietly hold us back for decades. Catherine and Ashley talk about how culture, values, and identity all shape our relationship with money, and why remembering where you came from — no matter the hardships or the blessings — is part of building a foundation you can be proud of.

This one is for the parents, the students, the educators, and anyone who believes that education paired with purpose can truly change lives.

About The Ashley B. Cash Show: The Ashley B. Cash Show features conversations with education leaders, policy experts, parents, teachers and reform advocates who are working to transform K-12 education. Host Ashley B. Cash brings her perspective as both a parent and business owner to explore systemic education issues and practical solutions for creating better outcomes for students, families, and communities.

About Ashley:  As both a mother and business owner, Ashley brings a unique dual perspective to education reform advocacy, driven by her desire for better educational outcomes for future generations and informed by her firsthand experience with the skills gap facing employers today. Her passion for transforming K-12 education stems from witnessing the real-world consequences of educational failures and recognizing the critical need for a system that prepares students for diverse career pathways, not just college. Through this podcast, Ashley champions solutions including aptitude-based education tracks, expanded school choice, practical skills integration, and alternative career pathways that align with students' individual strengths and interests.

Follow @AshleyBCashOfficial on Instagram & @Ashley Bowes Cash on Facebook.

Visit www.AshleyBCashOfficial.com for more content and features. 

Transcript

SPEAKER_02 0:00

Welcome back to the Ashley V Cash Show. I'm Ashley, and today I am super excited to welcome our special guest. Her name is Catherine Coman, and she is the director of the Red to Black at Texas Tech University. It is an amazing program, and I can't wait for you to hear more about it. Catherine has over two decades of experience in the financial industry and has made it her mission to help students and families take control of their finances. She has incredible knowledge and insight, and I am so excited to welcome you to the conversation. Catherine, welcome to the show. Thank you, Miss Ashley. So excited to have you here today. Red is usually negative in the negative column, and black is when you're finally making money. Absolutely. And so you're doing that with children. Tell us a little bit more before we get started about your experience. I know that you've had a lot of experience in finance, and go ahead and tell us. Well, it's amazing.

SPEAKER_00 1:07

May I say fast of all thank you for the opportunity to come here and um speak about financial literacy. Well, in my experience, um, I go back quite dated. I grew up in a ranch. Um, and part of what we had to do was help either on the horticulture side or um the kettle side, kettle and sheep. I enjoyed horticulture more, that's what mom would do, and my late father would do more on the kettle and sheep. And based on that background, I realized there are several things that you must have: the tenacity. During high season of no rain and high season of high sun. All those things factor in into what decisions we had to make concerning inflows and outflows. Now, having said that, I learned very quickly that it takes several items in my life being aligned to be able to say, well, I understand how to make those decisions. It mainly came from the aspect of, for example, in horticulture, we'd look at how long will it take to plant a crop and harvest it? From when the outflows of money have gone out up to when you sell it and make some money. And all the things you have to pay for in between. Exactly. So many times I realized my parents were always the outflows were more than the inflows. And so figuring out, I want to say, the music in between and just be in sync where you're not in the negative, I realized it takes a lot of decisions.

SPEAKER_01 2:42

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 2:43

And I was always that child that was always peeping in their books, like what's happening. And when you see the reds, you're like, ooh, not good. And then eventually you start seeing little black coming back in, and I realized everything good in life must have time that has been invested. Anything great in life must have some kind of knowledge. But most of all, if you don't possess the skill, seek it. Yes. And you will do excellently. Yes. So that's just why always be inquisitive.

SPEAKER_02 3:15

Yes, there we go. Absolutely.

SPEAKER_00 3:17

An inquisitive mind. Yes, yes.

SPEAKER_02 3:19

Now you um have were actually in the financial industry for years following college, and I believe are in the process of seeking your master's, or is it your doctorate? Doctorate. Doctorate, yes. Yes, yes, which is amazing. And um, you know, how did you get from being in the financial industry um and what did you do specifically in the financial industry to coming to Texas Tech and starting the Red to Block program?

SPEAKER_00 3:51

Well, I I love that question. In the finance industry, let me see. I've I've worked in several industries. I worked in a pharmaceutical um way back when Glaxo Welcome was not much with Smith Land Beacham. I worked quite a bit in the banking industry, and then later on I worked in an engineering and construction company in Overland Park, Kansas. One of the things that I realized is people will always have motivation as long as things are together. And so when I was working within, and my that was my last tenure, about 2011 is when I was working in the Central Bank of Kenya as a consultant, training consultant. And I kept on asking beyond monetary and physical policies that I'm training them on, there seemed to be underlying things that kept on coming up during training. And so the more I asked, and by nature I analyzed patterns, the more I realized all those productivity issues, motivation issues, or absenteeism originated from issues of finance. So I found that it was necessary, that's what I kept on telling many companies, if we don't educate your employees when it comes to dealing with their money and how to live within, I believe, we need to live below our means to have that threshold of savings, some margin, then we will always have these problems because whatever happens at home within the household eventually shows up at work. And more companies started seeing that interest until later on now. I said, well, time to go back to school to pursue my doctorate. And eventually that's what I did. I discovered Texas Tech. And I'm very fortunate to be in the School of Financial Planning that I get to pursue my doctorate, PhD in personal financial planning. It has been an awesome experience because I love to help people understand ways they can actually enhance their lives and their well-being. And doing what I do to date, red to black, and getting to teach financial literacy as a course within School of Financial Planning has been the greatest, greatest pleasure for me.

SPEAKER_02 6:20

Well, you and I have so many things in common, and we got to sit here for a few minutes and talk before we started the podcast. And I too grew up in a family with ranching. I have also worked in the pharmaceutical industry. I have also worked in the banking industry, and I have been in the construction industry as a privateer doing real estate investing. And so we've got a lot of similarities. And I think in all of those industries, you do see the effects of people not having financial literacy. Right. And it is, it is just this thing that can really be a lodestone around the parents of a family, right? And pull them down, even when they've got a good job and they are making a nice amount of money. If you don't know how to use the tool of money to do well for yourself and your family, if you don't know how to budget, if you don't know how to save for a rainy day, if you don't know how to start to invest so that you can have money for your future, um you're in a world of hurt. And um I'm so glad that you started doing that for companies and that now you're coming to Texas Tech and you're teaching the students because the earlier we can teach the students, the better off they're gonna be.

SPEAKER_01 7:37

Absolutely.

SPEAKER_02 7:38

Right? And um, you know, I've been working um through the state legislature advocating for bills, and they passed HB 27 last year at the 89th legislature in Texas. It's gonna require a semester of personal financial literacy for every student to graduate high school, starting with the class of 2030. I always stop here and tell my watchers to make sure that you are requiring your child to take a semester of personal financial literacy, maybe combined with economics, um, in high school as an elective before we get to 2030 because it's so critical for their future. But tell me a little bit about what red to black does for students.

SPEAKER_00 8:20

I'm excited about that question. Red to black actually takes the opportunity to meet with students and families prior. So when they are prospective students and thinking about attending college, one of the things that we do is meeting the student and parents and also providing the opportunity for educating them, specifically concerning how do you navigate college, how do you pay for it, what do you need to think about, some thoughts, some considerations of how to go about it. That is from the perspective. Once they are admitted, then we have specific coaching sessions and workshops that we offer throughout the year, throughout the semester. And that is mainly to build up the capacity of what must they know concerning financial literacy. So, for example, for the freshman, we highly encourage the parents to encourage the student to come and see us about budgeting. These are emerging adults, actually. They have not dealt with money before or being independent for that manner matter. So when they come in, we go through how do you develop a budget? What does a budget mean? And then what are your goals? What is a realistic goal, you know, smart goals. The next aspect we look at is once they've understood that and you have started savings, we also emphasize the importance of understanding the importance of loans and the role they play, how to borrow the right way, differentiating between a prudent and a predatory loan, looking at credit, why is a credit report important, and all those things. So we go through that. But one of the things that I found effective, because I've worked for red to black for about four years now, is when you provide financial literacy, you must always be conversant with where is that student at at that point in time. For example, the financial literacy needs that a freshman would require would be very different from that of a sophomore or a junior for that matter, because every transition within their classification has specific needs. So I joke in class sometimes and I say, well, financial literacy is not a necessity until it becomes a necessity. And my students laugh because they don't get it at that point in time. But I said, what I mean is when you have literacy in the finances area, when that opportunity comes that you need that knowledge, then it becomes a necessity. So giving nuggets to students upon what time they require that knowledge is something we are happy to do. And last but not least, they can meet with financial coaches who are mainly personal financial planning students on a one-on-one basis, and they can be their accountability partner. They will help them understand where they can fine-tune their finances, and then they navigate them to what's graduation and support them till the end. So it's quite exciting, I must say.

SPEAKER_02 11:27

It's very exciting, and it's so necessary. Yes. I mean, both of us in the businesses that we were in before have come across this in multiple forms. I know that um when I was in real estate investing and I was first starting my business back in like 2013, 2014, um, I was door knocking foreclosure houses. And I realized at that time that these people had done nothing wrong. That we as a system had failed to teach them how to budget. And so they had gone to a bank and asked the bank, how much can I afford? And the bank looked at it based off of how much they made, right? And the bank said, Oh, you can afford this much. Well, yes, if you want to be house poor the rest of your life and live paycheck to paycheck, right? And but we hadn't taught them your house should really be less than 20% of your net income. And that only leaves about 30% of your net income left for the rest of your necessities because then you need to have some wants, 30%, and then you need to be saving 20%, right? I mean, that's kind of the standard 50-30-20 rule. But they didn't know that, and they'd gotten where the banks, in some instances, were giving them a loan for 50% of their gross income. And there was no way they were ever going to be able to make it like that. And um, you know, as a business owner today, I run into it. I I have had people in my life in surrounding industries that I deal with that I have had to help and because they got themselves into a financial pickle and they were gonna lose everything. And um nobody should have to do that. Like we should be providing this knowledge to them so that they could really live their best life and not have the stress and the trauma and the heartache from being in debt to the point that they have no other way out.

SPEAKER_00 13:27

Absolutely. Yeah, I it's one of those things that I I look back and I say, you know, there are decisions we make because we don't know. And what you don't know, you don't know. Yes. And I was asking. I say that all the time. Oh, you do. You don't know what you don't know. Exactly. And part of I don't know is when um financial literacy, this is, and these are some of the things that we discuss about. I say the the importance of gaining this knowledge is such that I, as an individual, would know my limitation. For example, in real estate, I know what interest rates are, but I said also there are several instruments that go with the same interest rates. And if I cannot differentiate between what is prime, what is subprime, what is revolving, what is fixed, then I am at a loss at this point in time. And the other aspect is I keep reminding many times my students, I say, the best part of literacy is such that when you know, you know it, but also you know your limitation upon which you go and seek a professional that understands it and be willing to pay for that knowledge. Then you will make informed uh decisions as opposed to saying, I know it all, then finding out later, oh, I should have paid someone maybe just a fraction of a fee and be able to, what we say in financial planning, extract rent based on the services offered, professional services. But unfortunately, without a baseline, without understanding what I know and what my limitations are, then I'm at a loss.

SPEAKER_02 15:11

Well, and I think that so many, you know, they took home economics out of school back in around 2002. And since then, there really hasn't been a good financial literacy class in most schools. There's some schools now that are adding it back as an elective. Um, but there has been a whole generation of people that have not had anything given to them and provided to them. And so I think also we all suffer from a little bit of pride and we don't like saying, I don't understand this, I don't know this. We want to act like, oh, I got this, yeah, I'm reading my contract, uh-huh. Yeah, I understand everything in it. Like, because I would look stupid if I said I didn't understand this, right? And we've got to normalize people being like, can you explain this to me? Or I'm gonna take these documents and I'm gonna go home and I'm gonna get on the internet and I'm gonna ask the internet all these questions at the very least and understand what you are about to sign. You know, growing up, um, my mother taught me you do not ever sign anything you haven't read every word of, and you do not sign anything that you don't understand every word of. And she made me start reading the first contract that I ever read was actually her will, right? Um, and I remember reading through it and getting the part where it said I was gonna go live with my uncle and being like, why am I going to live with my uncle? Who's a very nice man and I love, but I I didn't get that my parents were going to be dead in order for this to work, right? And um ever since then, I do not sign anything that I don't, I haven't read every word of and that I do not understand. And but we've got to start normalizing people saying, hold a second. I need time to read this, I need time to understand it, and if I don't understand it, I'm going to seek out a professional and ask them to explain it.

SPEAKER_00 17:06

Absolutely. I totally agree with that. There's a saying that my mother used to say, well, asking is not foolishness.

SPEAKER_02 17:14

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 17:15

Asking is part of learning. So when we normalize asking questions, it's simply seeking to understand. There's nothing wrong. And it's amazing that you should have you would have said that because many times, even when I train, um, well, whether students or corporate, I used to say, do not append your signature in something that you're yet fully to be conversant with the ramifications. So understand what you're signing for, especially in banking. Oh, yes. Yes, especially in banking. There's a lot of legal language in there that if you don't understand it, then ask. And if no one is giving you the responses, then maybe you shouldn't sign it.

SPEAKER_02 17:54

Yeah, for sure. No, until you understand every word of it. And understand because it's oftentimes, right, in the fine print, as they say, the part you don't understand, the part that's hidden at the bottom, or the part, you know, they'll show you here's this check to approve, right? That you you've seen it. And people just just check it without um even having looked at it.

unknown 18:20

Yes.

SPEAKER_02 18:20

And I see that happening more and more with everything that's done digitally, right? That's comes on our iPhones. You can get all those contracts and sign them digitally now, which makes it harder to read. My staff goes absolutely crazy because I make them print off everything for me to read. They're like, you're killing trees. I'm like, I have to understand it. Um and like we need to make sure that people know there is sometimes stuff in the fine print. Um, when I was buying houses in um Dallas, Texas, I would regularly find people who had done um reverse mortgages and they were in foreclosure. And they were like, I I own this house, I can't be foreclosed on. And I'm like, well, when you started taking the money back every month from the reverse mortgage, you actually entered into a loan agreement. And but they were like, but I've made all my I but I don't make payments, they pay me. And I'm like, yes, but in the fine print, it said, you have to still make sure that you pay your homeowners association, you have to still make sure you pay your taxes, and if the house is not in the condition, condition they think it needs to be, that they can foreclose. And so we had that storm two months ago, and it blew some of the shingles off your roof, and now they're missing, and they had somebody drive by your house, and now they're saying your house is not in the condition that it needs to be, and they've started the foreclosure process, and it's always the little things in that fine print. And we've just got to again back to educating our kids. Um, we've got to make sure that they understand not just the financial literacy, but also how do we contracts? Yeah, which is should be part of financial literacy. It is. Yeah. I'm so glad it is at Red to Black.

SPEAKER_00 20:13

Um when we come across contracts, actually, we send them to the student legal, which is a free service for all students, because they are languages we don't understand. Yeah. So there's some we can give them guidance, provide guidance rather, but there's some we need we need those that actually understand the language. Because if you look at most contracts, it's not language based on layman understanding it. No, it's based on someone who has that expertise. So many times I find myself with the same. If I don't understand it, I'll ask someone who understands the language.

SPEAKER_02 20:50

That needs to be something that we absolutely normalize, that we go to professionals and seek out at professionals. And this is usually the point in my podcast where I turn to everyone and say not all professionals are created equal, that you need to find specialists in their field who are really good at it. And by that I mean you're not gonna go to an orthopedist who is specialized in bones for a brain surgery, nor should you go to one type of lawyer who maybe does real estate when you actually need estate planning. Like you need to find specialists in their particular field in the specific thing that you are discussing. And they are not all created equal, and you oftentimes get what you pay for.

SPEAKER_00 21:35

So yeah. I totally agree with you on the same. Many times you say, look at the designations, look at how many people have had testimonials about them. For example, if you're looking for a certified financial planner, you can always go back to the CFP board and find out are they credentialed? Are they those that I can trust with my money? Uh for a CPA, it's the same. It's about What signals have they put in place that indicates that they are professionals and almost what I want to call them subject matter experts in what you're seeking? Because many times I've seen individuals asking taxation questions to someone who is a financial planner. I'm like, well, unless they're a CPA, it's very difficult for them. They would answer because they have the general knowledge, but there are specific tax questions where they're especially bequest that needs somebody that understands how that functions in the long term.

SPEAKER_02 22:36

Well, your journey has been so fascinating and is so similar to mine. We're gonna have to talk some about that some more. But um, what do you think has been the most surprising thing that you have seen since you've been teaching financial literacy?

SPEAKER_00 22:54

Going back to knowledge, we are in a space and era that knowledge is so much, as in too much information. And so the expectation is with increase of knowledge to a point whereby every gadget that we do carry, you can Google anything right now, you can chat GPT anything for that matter. But what I've seen over time is even with the increase of knowledge, we don't make prudent decisions. But also I've summed it up to understand that less is more. What does that mean? The more you know about what is pertinent to you, the better. As opposed to information overload, thinking that if I have all this, I will be able to make a better decision. By nature, we were not created to carry a lot of information. We must have a system to synthesize through what decisions correlate to the information I need to make this decision when there's too much, and going back to the fanprint that you talked about, when it's too much that I don't know what I should default to. So, by nature, understanding that information is a lot. How do we help young adults of whom in college we coin them emerging adults? And even adults like you and I synthesize through the information to get to the right decision. It's as simple as read research and go to people that understand about what you're seeking, as opposed to thinking when I'm well read, then I understand what we've seen over time in research is that just increases the overconfidence that I know so much about this, yet you don't.

SPEAKER_02 24:49

Right. Well, sometimes information overload. Um, I think it's what happens. And what I've seen with Chat GPT is that you're not always getting the right information. Absolutely not. I have finally learned, um, even with social media, that after I ask it a question, I have to go and research and make sure that it's truly the answer. And that's a lot to put on anyone. And how do you know that you're not getting the right answer if you don't know the subject matter? Which is why I think it's so incredibly important that we seek out professionals who are specialized in their fear in their field sooner rather than later. You hit the nail on the head. Well, you know, there's there's a reason I've been advocating for financial literacy, and it's because I had to come about it on my own, right? And have been through the school of hard knocks with it. And I myself, when I was creating my companies, like I would go the first, I had to do it three times because I messed it up the first two, right? It's the first time I did seek out a professional. And I went to my accountant and I said, Hey, I want to start a business, I want to start an LLC. And he said, Great, let me help you with that. And he creates an LLC. And it was great at providing me tax incentives, but it was horrible at providing me liability protection. So the next time I went to my lawyer and I said, Hey, I had this LLC, and he goes, Oh, that's horrible liability protection. I said, I know, I need you to fix it. So he creates a new LLC for me. And now I have great liability protection, but no tax mitigation at all, right? And so I had to go through those two processes to finally realize what I really needed to do was take the accountant and the lawyer and put them in the same room together and make them duke it out where it had the best of both worlds, where I got tax mitigation, but I also had liability protection. You know, and so I had to go, and that cost a lot of money and it cost a lot of time, and it could have turned out really bad at points until I got it fixed. And I've had to do it through the school of hard knocks. I don't want everybody else to have to do that. I don't want to see families in trouble. I, you know, what I'm seeing now, oh my gosh, let's talk about this. You're a kid, you're on Facebook, you can just buy something and you can Klarna it, you know, or get your loan right there on the app, and it takes nothing, and all of a sudden you find yourself in debt. And they don't even know what that means. They just think because we've created this consumer society, I want that. So even if I don't have the money for it, here's a way for me to get it. I'm gonna get it. And because we haven't taught them the problem with that and how bad that can be for them and their future, they're they're doing this completely without any counsel or advice. And they're getting themselves in trouble before they've even started. How do we how do we fix that?

SPEAKER_00 27:48

How do we I mean obviously teaching them early, but there are several aspects that are going through my mind. Yeah. So when it comes to learning, I I realize, you know, we've shared quite a bit in terms of common backgrounds. One of the most effective ways of teaching a child is actually in the home. Include your child in those money conversations. Yeah. Include them in the most minute things. It may not be the mega things of you know investing and all that, but day-to-day operations of a household. This is how we budget. This is how much, and that's what I did with my oldest, he's now 17. Um, I say, this is what our family budget is for, for example, for food. Now figure out between this list, when we get to the grocery store, you need to figure out what items we need to buy and what's their cost. And he kept on doing it. And I about a year later, he said, Mom, things are quite expensive. I said, son, tell me more. He said, Well, I'm still picking the same things, but I'm paying $20 or $30 more. I said, you know what that is? He said, I think so. I think the cost of the goods are going up. I said, what is that? What is that called? So we kept on talking about when there's an uptick of price. It's very much conversational. That's inflation. It means just cost of production is high, and we just have to pay for the margins of that increment. It starts from the dining table, sitting with our children and intentionally having the conversations of, well, this is how much a loaf of bread costs now. This is what it used to cost when we were about your age. And let them think through what is it that has brought that increment of price. But what we've seen over time, and I've observed it, is we are not having these conversations like we used to, maybe during our generation. It's almost like everything is done via the app. There's that touch that was there in the family table or kitchen table for that matter that is missing out. That is the first inclination that we introduce our children to financial literacy unknowingly, but there's learning that is happening. And this is what I remind many parents. Um, children don't do what you tell them, they do what they observe. So if you tell them one thing and act differently, what you do is what they shall do. That is one thing that I think that has also really fallen through over the years. Now, we cannot say all families are the same. So there's that rule that we always have to think about. If the child is not introduced to financial literacy at that basic level, the family unit, then how else will they be able to obtain such knowledge? It's in the school. So if they go to school, for example, K through 12, I went to school, of course, in Kenya, and that was a requirement for you to know how to balance your checkbook. There's no balancing of checkbooks anymore. And my first time coming to the US, because we had already done that in my elementary and also mid um middle school. Um I came as an ex-chig program student a few years ago. I was 20. And at that point in time, we didn't have credit cards, we didn't have anything. So my parents had to purchase rather my mother than my late father had already rested. Um, travelers' checks. You remember those days? And you're reminded these are as good as the dollar bill itself. If it says a hundred, it is a hundred. And so take care of it as you as if you're carrying money. Yes. But I had learned not only from seeing, but in school, in we call standard six, which is sixth grade, we had already been shown how travelers' checks work. We were shown how the different denominations work based on the currency that you've converted it to. So at a very young age, as much as that was not knowledge I needed then, there was introduction through education, what that would look like. So schools play a major role when it comes to teaching us. It's it's what I call it's a wealth equalizer. It's something that you can take, and no matter how many things the student or the adult may face, as long as they have the foundational tenants of financial literacy, then they are able to make good decisions. And that's why I went back to all of us were raised differently. However, if the schools are able to embed financial literacy as part of it, that would be the greatest thing. And I must share this with you, Ashley. So my research is in financial education, understanding how financial education plays a major role when it comes to a student attending college, what if we mediate with stress and different aspects of college life. And this is what, and this was a data that had saved more than a hundred universities and colleges, and this is what it showed. Any student that had met with either a financial aid counselor within their realm of high school, or they would have gotten to take financial literacy within high school or prior, majority of them, with every unit increase of financial literacy education, navigated college and life successfully. Which tells you when we introduce financial literacy at a very young age, they may not see it as a need now, but when it presents itself, it's like an aha moment.

SPEAKER_02 33:59

I cannot agree more. You know, the earlier, so you know, and many of the viewers know that I'm really trying to transform the K through 12 education system. And while I am super excited that we passed the one semester of personal financial literacy for high school students, I think that we need to go back and be embedding it all the way from elementary school, especially when we're talking about math. I think that we also should be teaching kids that want to be entrepreneurs and maybe not go to college, or even those who want to go to college but want to be entrepreneurs, bookkeeping and accounting in high school instead of trigonometry and algebra. I think that would be so much more beneficial, right? And so the earlier that we can start putting in, like I remember being a little kid, and they'd be like, Well, if you're gonna buy four apples, how many quarters does it take, right? And there are ways that you can embed it into everyday classwork, teaching another subject, whether it's teaching math, but you can also embed it in there when you're teaching history, when you start talking about, you know, what happened during the Great Depression, how did we get there? I mean, we could go back to the 2008-2009 financial crash and talk about how did money play a role in that? How did the lending play a role in that, right? And and then in that discussion, talk about what what is a loan? How does a loan work? How much of your income should go toward paying your mortgage, you know, and and be having it all along throughout, so they see the practical application of it, and that it's not this thing that's considered taboo. Because I think that might be the worst thing that we have right now, is that money is a taboo topic. And so that I know a lot of people who do not talk to their kids at all about money. They're like, no, I don't want them to know. And they don't, and it's not always because they're in debt. Sometimes it's I don't want them to know how much we have. And I'm like, if you don't teach your child to handle it, one, they're going to be bad with it. And it doesn't matter how much you leave them because they're not going to know what to do with it. And we've got to stop making it a taboo subject, and we've got to bring it to the forefront and be like, everyone needs to know this, and the family unit needs to be working on finances together. Because one thing that I've seen is my kids, they have plenty, but they want more all the time, right? And so if you're not teaching your children the value of a dollar and how you have to work to attain it, and how when you finally get an extra one, how you need to invest it, they will lose it. And I mean, there are statistics to prove that. You know, they say today in the United States, 60% of families cannot survive a $400 emergency, which just the increase in our mortgage insurance will be that much in a year, which could destitute families. The other thing that I say is that, you know, there is these studies that say if a family has built financial wealth, like generational financial wealth, and have enough to pass on to the next generation, by the third generation, 60% of families are going to lose that wealth. And by the fourth generation, 90% of families are going to lose that wealth. And I firmly believe that it comes down to two things. One, they're not teaching them the same values, morals, and ethics that they had. And two, they're not teaching them that money is a tool and you have to work at it and you have to know how to use it. Right? And so that passing on from one generation to the next of not only our morals, values, and ethics, but also how to do things. We are losing so many things in our society because we are not teaching the next generation.

SPEAKER_00 38:00

I cannot see how much you've captured so accurately. Because if you think about it, and it's so true what you said about research, um, because the next generation treats that wealth as a windfall. They were never taught how much it took, the grit it took to really have that kind of wealth, the values, the uh the persistence, the tenacity to withstand the difficulties that come with not having cash flows and borrowing and when not to borrow, and just it's a lot. But I think we go back to one thing. Let me go back to one thing that you've said. If it's not driven by value, in terms of placing value on the wealth that is passed along, and how to create a culture of ensuring that not only is that value kept, but that value keeps incrementally marginal increases over time. It's just a matter of time before it's spent down. Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 39:13

You know, and I um I've seen it in my own family. My great-grandparents and my great-great-grandparents worked very, very hard. In fact, my great-grandparents um came across the plains from Missouri, and I'm not sure if their wagon broke down or they just couldn't go any further, but they stopped just northeast of Amarillo, Texas, and they dug a one-room dugout into the side of a plateau, and they raised all 17 of their children there. They eventually expanded it to a two-room dugout, right? And we still have that land in our family today. Um, but I have seen generations between then and now who didn't place as much value on the money. They wanted to, they didn't keep doing the work. They started trying to enjoy the windfall, as you say, right? And nearly lost it. And I am now in the rebuilding phase. So it's the the generation before who does the hard work, does the scrimping and saving, lives below their means, so that they can save, and then figures out how to get it invested, or to create multiple streams of income, by the way, which they have to manage all of those, right? To then pass on something, leave something when they pass this earth to their family. But if you haven't taught them to scrimp and save, to live below your means, to save, and the art of investing in many, many different ways. There's not one way, it's not all the stock market. In fact, most people who build generational wealth have multiple streams of income. I say most millionaires have at least three streams of income, and billionaires usually have way more than seven. So you've got to be working constantly, but we also need to be passing that knowledge on to the next generation. And if we don't, that's when they get a windfall, and then they're comfortable and they don't have that same grit and that same need that pushes them to have to scrimp and save and scrape and borrow and do all the things, and they potentially are gonna lose that money.

SPEAKER_00 41:39

Unfortunately.

SPEAKER_02 41:40

Yeah. And it's sad, like, because when I think back to my great-great-grandparents, and I try to put myself in those shoes of digging the home into the side of a hill and living with dirt walls and dirt ceiling and dirt floor. It's what they did. I've been to the place. There's still a little intention, there's a little piece of wood that was the front wall. And I'd look around and I'm like, they were out here by themselves with nothing and no one in sight. The water was a long way away. And just I think about the cold nights and the cold days walking to get water, probably having to break the ice. Because as a kid working on the ranch, I had to go and break the ice. Now I got to live in a house with heat, but during the day, I still had to go outside bundled up and break ice for the cattle and throw hay. And um, but I think about they didn't have any relief and they did it, and they did it for us. And how how do I move that forward? Right? And I think there are a lot of people who can look back on their families and be super proud of everything they accomplished. And but if we don't give them this knowledge about how to take the financial literacy and build and to still the value of don't use it all. Yeah. How do we fix it?

SPEAKER_00 43:30

How do we fix it? We start revisiting from the foundations, exactly what you've talked about. I think one of the things going back to when my father was alive, he used to sit us down and he would talk about from where he started from. Right in the middle of the mountains, in the middle of nowhere, nothing but rocks. And he said, I need to live a better life. And that gave him the tenacity to move from the mountain. To the valley where now there was more opportunity to do what he needed to do. One of the things that he did is he always reminded us where we came from, which is something that I've noticed that it's a human condition that we are ashamed of the places we came from. So we don't want our children to know that there was a lot of suffering, there was a lot of luck. We are ashamed to speak out to them. That's part of their identity. It's part of the forming of who they are today by understanding where they came from. Many times, many children say it has always been there, it will always be there. That is one thing that my father always kept reminding us, we have not always been this way. And one of the ways, he was of good age before he rested. He said, one of the things that I've realized because he lived before Kenya was colonized and then during colonization and after, and he said, one of the things that I've realized that I will take with me is education is something that you don't take for granted. Education passed along with culture and values, the things that matter to us as a family is very crucial. But I laugh about this, Ashley. My mother came along and said, Well, I agree with you. So every time when it's 4 a.m. in the morning to go start milking the dairy cows, you know who's up? We are all up. Whether you're the one going to the dairy or you're the one that's going to take the milk, it didn't matter. We are all up doing something. And so that part of being included, whether you need you knew how to drive a tractor or not, it didn't matter. You had to be immersed in the system of how we do things by fire. Yeah. And that helps. And so half the time I've found that parents we want to, this is one thing I hear very often, Ashley, that I don't want my children to go through the hardship I went through. Yes. Well, that hardship is what built our tenacity for us to be where we're at today. Correct. And I beg to differ with that thought because if they don't know how much it took for you to be where you're at, then they will never appreciate anything that you do for them or what is handed to them. It's when they see it, it's when they observe it and are able to really see how difficult it is for them to even get the plenty, is when they appreciate it. When you see the inputs, then the outputs shall be much appreciated. If it's outputs only, minus the inputs, we will not be doing any good for the next generation.

SPEAKER_02 46:55

No, that's 100% true. I regularly say that comfort kills ingenuity, drive, and tenacity. And I think that our the last few generations have made a mistake by wanting to shelter our children and not let them see the hardships. The other thing I was going to say is that you have to make your children feel the pain so they can actually know the value of the dollar. And us hiding our stress from our children and our financial difficulties for our children does not benefit them. They still feel it. I know as a child when my parents would go through financial difficulties, I felt it, but it was worse because I didn't know why it was happening. And so I was scared. So I was looking at everything as the big bad monster, not knowing what was actually the problem. And it also prevents them from being able to help you, right? If your children know that you're in a financial hardship, they're less likely to ask for as many things. It also gives you the opportunity to explain to them, well, this is what happened, and this is how I would do it different next time, right? And to use it as a teaching moment. And so I think that it's so incredible. You know, I wish that we could get back. You mentioned this earlier, the family dinner table. I wish that we would start everybody going back to the family dinner table and having discussions and not just talking about your day and saying the good things, but saying, this happened today, this is why it happened, and this is how I'm going to do differently next time. And being just really open and honest with everyone and letting them see the good and the bad, because I remember to what I was going to say earlier, um, you learn more from your failures than you ever do from your successes. And that will be completely true with your children too, right? If they see you fail, but then they see you pick yourself back up, pull up your boots, and make good decisions, and they see every step of that, they will learn so much from that and they will respect you so much more, and they won't be scared. Because even if you don't tell your children what's going on, they feel it and they know something's going on and they're scared. So you might as well explain it to them and explain how you're fixing it so that they can help you fix it, right? Like my kids sometimes will say, because I really try to impart the value of a dollar to them and how hard we work and that we try to save money wherever we can. And so my kids will actually be like, no, mom, I don't want those tennis shoes. Those are too expensive. Just get me these, right? And you're let let your kids have a part in that. It's so valuable for them to be able to feel like they're playing a part and that they're helping the family, right? Just important things.

SPEAKER_00 49:53

Very important.

SPEAKER_02 49:55

Well, I need to get back to this red and black because we could keep talking down this vein for a long time. But you are doing so many things to benefit kids. What is the number one thing that you the number one thing that you see as a benefit to these children? Like when they're finished with your program, what what can they do and and what are you seeing be really helpful to them?

SPEAKER_00 50:19

I think one of the things going back to specifically a freshman that we have helped him over the years, now I believe he's almost a junior, one of the things he said is he's in the STEM major. And he said, one of the things that he learns every time he meets with the financial coaches. So the first thing that he said we did help him is figuring out his budget. And he realized, oh, money, and we laugh about it. He said, I realize money has names. For example, um, rent is a name, groceries is a name. So if I have a thousand dollars in my account, I must give a name to that a thousand dollars. And if I don't give it a name, then it finds wings and it flies.

SPEAKER_02 51:06

That is so true. It finds wings and it flies. I usually say it leaks out, right? Like it leaks out to Starbucks and it leaks out for I'm just gonna stop and have McDonald's today or whatever. It leaks out of your and all of a sudden you're at the end of the month, there's no money left to save, which is why you should always pay yourself first. Give it, give your savings the name first, and then pay your rent and your car payment and everything else.

SPEAKER_00 51:29

So that's one thing he said that he found amazing. Like, well, money has a name and I have to give it a name. And once I give it a name, then I can be able to ascertain what portion I want to give to my ones and my needs, because one of the things we emphasize on is you must know your needs. When I meet with them personally, I always ask, so who's paying this bill? And most of them are like, This is my mother's, this is my father's, this is my bill. And so I put it on the side as it is paid by someone else, and then of course, when we tally the numbers, whatever income is, and then at the bottom, what your expenses are. And they look at it and say, Well, it seems like I'm living beyond my means. And I ask the question, what makes you feel so? Because my income is less than what I'm spending. And how are you spending more? So we go back to the credit cards. I ask the question, whose credit card is it? Well, it's a bill that my mother pays and my father pays. I say, okay, that's great. Right now, in the next four years, it is their bill. But after four years, once you graduate and you are a professional, it shall be your bill. So one of the things that I've seen over time students having that aha moment is that this bill is not just their bill. At one point in time, it will be my bill. And one of the things that we've done very much intentionally is revisiting their mindsets, revisiting in terms of what shapes your frames of reference when it comes to decision making about finances. And so one of the things that we do is going and revisiting the aspects of, for example, what is your automatic thought when you get paid? And some of them are very honest and say, Well, I'm thinking about the next trip out of town. I said, That's awesome. What happened to the name called rent that we talked about? They're like, oh. So their inclination is always something that we must challenge and visit and revisit. Because one of the aspects that I constantly remind my students is financial literacy is a continuum. It is not something that happens in a vacuum. It is something that has to have someone that challenges you and why you do what you do. And once you understand it, then you're able to introspect or retrospect for that matter, then start making decisions that commence that are commensurate to where you desire to go to. But if you don't challenge yourself through coming through the education, financial education presentations, classes, and having that coach hold you accountable, then eventually you will graduate and you'll be making six figures, but you wouldn't know where your six figures went to. So part of what I have seen and over time really appreciated is the number of students who come back and say, you know what? I started with this knowledge, this no knowledge, or very basic knowledge when it comes to financial literacy. And I was very stressed because I didn't know where my money was going to. And my parents and I are not seeing eye to eye because I keep asking for money. So the next inclination is now I know that this is what I have, this is what my budget looks like, then I must make adjustments to what I'm spending money on because if I don't do it now, it will be very difficult in the days to come. So one of the things that I love about what we do is challenging each other in terms of revisit why you do things the way you do. It's okay to challenge the mindsets of where you come from because I believe education has a way of us coming in and out, asking ourselves questions while getting better at doing something, but most of all, it keeps you in line with what your outcomes will be, which is get a house maybe in the future. What does it look like today for you to buy a house? Will you continue spending the same? So it's about challenging each other. And it's not challenging so that the other person would feel, well, I'm not doing what is right. It's about offering support in a very judgment-free zone where we can be able to help you move from where you're at to where you desire. And once they graduate, Ashley can only imagine how much a joy it is for them to get their fast paycheck and they are able to still have the differences that we talked about when they were. They name every dollar. They named every dollar.

SPEAKER_02 56:26

I love what you said about mindset because I say this all the time. And I've been writing a financial literacy course, I've been teaching it at a church here in town. Um and I start with mindset because it's amazing to me how many people either have a really negative connotation of money and or think bad of people who have money. And I argue that number one, money is only a tool and you need to learn how to use it. But number two, if you think badly about money or if you think badly about people that have money, you're gonna keep pushing money away from yourself. And you're never going to be able to start saving it and investing it and growing financial wealth because you've put a negative connotation in your head about people that have money. And so you having money makes you think you're a bad person. And it's this vicious cycle, right? And the way that I oftentimes, I mean, obviously we have the conversation, but then I say to them, Well, what's your goal? Do you want to have no money your whole life? And they're like, No. I'm like, so you want to have money? And they're like, Yes. And I'm like, Do you think you having money for retirement is going to make you a bad person? And they're like, no. And I say, okay, so that other person that you're looking down on because they have money, they're trying to do the same thing. They're not trying to be nefarious or bad, right? And if you think of money as a tool and you start learning to use it, you can actually do good things with your money. You can give back to your community, right? And so it's really important that you have the right set mindset around money, but it's also really important to have goals. And the goal setting, I think, is critically important. And so I was talking to an event last week, and I said to everyone, can anyone here tell me the shortest way between two points? And it is a straight line, right? And I said, But if you only have one point, how do you make a straight line? And they all kind of looked at me. And I said, you have to know not only where you are, but also where you want to go so that you can build that straight line to get there the fastest. And if all you're thinking about is the now, the present, then you are meandering through life and you're not taking the straightest point to the future that you want to have. And so you have to set goals, and they need to be short-term goals because what you do tomorrow, if it is not moving you toward your goal, you probably shouldn't be doing it, right? So you have to have short-term goals, long-term, midterm goals, and long-term goals. But your long-term goals should start with what do you want your retirement to look like? How long are you planning on living? What kind of house do you want? What kind of how do you want to travel? What kind of car do you want to drive? What do you want to be able to do for your family? What do you want to be able to leave for your family? That's your ultimate goal. So then you come back to the present and you try to figure out how is the fastest way for me to get to that so you can retire earlier, right? And it's amazing to me how many people are not setting goals for their life. And they literally, I see them, and and I have to say, maybe it's always been this bad, or maybe I've just now noticed it. But this current generation, like 20 somethings, they're living in the moment, right? They're like, but I want the pizza today. I don't want to save the pizza, the money to have the pizza next week. Did you know that I can divide a pizza into three payments? You know, it's all about the now. It's about being happy today. I don't want to work that hard because I want to be happy today. And I'm like, your financial future, your financial freedom is out there somewhere. And if you don't make really hard decisions today, it's going to take you so much longer to get there. And then if I impart nothing else to my audience today, it is that you have to start saving early. You need to scrimp and save early. You need to suck as much money into your savings and get it invested as quickly as you can so it has the opportunity to compound for you. Right now, most people just use negative compounding, which is credit cards and credit. We need to be using positive compounding, which is saving and getting it invested. And the earlier you do that, the longer your money has time to grow, the bigger an impact it will have in the future, and the more that you will be able to have what I call financial freedom earlier. Well, I love our conversation, and I'm hoping that you will come back and see us again. I would love to. But before we leave today, if you had just one more thing to impart to everybody, what would it be?

SPEAKER_00 1:01:03

One thing that I'd want us to all consider is you are a steward. In everything that you do at one point in time, it will have to be passed on or even probably get diminished by you. Wisdom is if you don't have the knowledge that it requires for you to make those decisions that will enhance your life or even the life of the next generation, seek those that can be able to understand you. Because in this life, whether employed, retired, young, as a child, it doesn't matter where you're at in the continuum of life. However, in that life cycle, ensure that you have safeguarded the aspects of your finances. But most of all, learn to have those dinners with your with your with your um family because they're not with us forever. Simply because once they are emerging adults, as we've coined them, um, you have set them up either for failure or for success. And one of the things that we want to do as parents is to set up our children for success because a prudent or a wise parent will always live an inheritance, not just for their children, but for their grandchildren. So we ought to ask ourselves: are we aiding ourselves for the next generation or are we ailing through our day-to-day operations and decision making the next generation? Because we can choose to create a wealth distraction vicious cycle or a cycle that is passed along through values, as Ms. Ashley has spoken about, through goal setting, but most of all, discounting from where you ought to be, where you desire to be, and where you're at today. And intentionally. Intentionality is a difficult thing to do. It is. But also, most of all, do not be consumed by wanting, wanting, wanting wants will always be there. However, may your families always prosper because of this decision that you make today, because it will have impact today and the rest of the generations that are yet to come.

SPEAKER_02 1:03:41

Yes, so much. Okay, Catherine, please tell everyone how they can find you, where they can find out about more about the Red to Black program at Texas Tech University, and how they can get in touch with you.

SPEAKER_00 1:03:54

That's awesome. Well, we are located at Texas Tech Drain Hall, um room 254. And via email, you can always email us at redtoblack at ttu.edu. Um, anytime that you want to also reach out to us, any team member would reach out to you through social media, either Instagram, which is R2B slash TTU or Facebook. Anywhere we can be able to partner with you so that you can make those good decisions or even learn more about what we do with Red to Black, we'll appreciate hearing from you.

SPEAKER_02 1:04:29

And I happen to be in charge of scholarships and at one of the other schools at Texas Tech University for the Prime campaign. And um, I know that your department could also probably use some funding so that you can make things better for more students. So even if you are not a student at Texas Tech, you can still help make sure other students are well educated using the Red to Black program. So make sure to reach out to Katherine Coman at the Red to Black at Texas Tech University if you would like to help make sure that the next generation has better financial literacy. Catherine, thank you so much for joining us today. And I hope that you'll come back and tell us more about what all is going on. And who knows, maybe we can even partner on a few things with the financial literacy. I'd love to help however I can.

SPEAKER_00 1:05:15

Thank you, Miss Ashley. I would really appreciate you. Thank you. Thank you.

SPEAKER_02 1:05:20

Well, thank you for joining us on the Ashley V Cash Show today. Please join us next time when we can learn more about financial literacy and how to protect the next generation as well as the changes that we're trying to make in the K through twelve education system. Thank you. See you next time.