The Ashley B. Cash Show
In this podcast, we will be exploring all aspects of education. We will discover where our system is successful and failing. Through conversations with teachers, chancellors, government officials and more, we will identify the problems and how to change them. It's time we flipped this education!
The Ashley B. Cash Show
The Future of Texas Education | Kate Bierly
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In this episode of The Ashley B. Cash Show, Ashley sits down with Kate Bierly, Campaign Director for Next Generation Texas at the Texas Public Policy Foundation, for a wide-ranging conversation on the future of education in Texas.
Ashley and Kate dig into growing concerns over foreign influence in Texas universities — from research contracts and foreign exchange programs to curriculum development — and the push to lower reporting thresholds on foreign university donations to increase transparency. They also discuss what Kate and Ashley describe as shifting religious and cultural dynamics in K-12 curriculum, including concerns raised at a recent State Board of Education meeting.
The conversation then turns to solutions — exploring how Texas can build multiple pathways for students beyond the traditional college track, including trade education starting as early as seventh grade, entrepreneurship training, and skill-based learning models that move away from rigid grade levels.
If you care about education policy, transparency in our schools, and giving Texas kids real pathways to success, this is a conversation you don't want to miss.
About The Ashley B. Cash Show: The Ashley B. Cash Show features conversations with education leaders, policy experts, parents, teachers and reform advocates who are working to transform K-12 education. Host Ashley B. Cash brings her perspective as both a parent and business owner to explore systemic education issues and practical solutions for creating better outcomes for students, families, and communities.
About Ashley: As both a mother and business owner, Ashley brings a unique dual perspective to education reform advocacy, driven by her desire for better educational outcomes for future generations and informed by her firsthand experience with the skills gap facing employers today. Her passion for transforming K-12 education stems from witnessing the real-world consequences of educational failures and recognizing the critical need for a system that prepares students for diverse career pathways, not just college. Through this podcast, Ashley champions solutions including aptitude-based education tracks, expanded school choice, practical skills integration, and alternative career pathways that align with students' individual strengths and interests.
Follow @AshleyBCashOfficial on Instagram & @Ashley Bowes Cash on Facebook.
Visit www.AshleyBCashOfficial.com for more content and features.
About The Ashley B. Cash Show: The Ashley B. Cash Show features conversations with education leaders, policy experts, parents, teachers and reform advocates who are working to transform K-12 education. Host Ashley B. Cash brings her perspective as both a parent and business owner to explore systemic education issues and practical solutions for creating better outcomes for students, families, and communities.
About Ashley: As both a mother and business owner, Ashley brings a unique dual perspective to education reform advocacy, driven by her desire for better educational outcomes for future generations and informed by her firsthand experience with the skills gap facing employers today. Her passion for transforming K-12 education stems from witnessing the real-world consequences of educational failures and recognizing the critical need for a system that prepares students for diverse career pathways, not just college. Through this podcast, Ashley champions solutions including aptitude-based education tracks, expanded school choice, practical skills integration, and alternative career pathways that align with students' individual strengths and interests.
Follow @AshleyBCashOfficial on Instagram & @Ashley Bowes Cash on Facebook.
Visit www.AshleyBCashOfficial.com for more content and features.
Welcome back to the Ashley Be Cash Show. I'm Ashley, and I'm so excited for today's guest. Kate Bierley is the campaign director for next generation Texas at the Texas Public Policy Foundation, dedicated to advancing policies that promote freedom and opportunity in higher education. Originally from California and now a proud Texan, Kate brings a powerful academic foundation to her work, with an undergraduate degree from UC Berkeley and two master's degrees from Stanford University, one in elementary education and the other in education policy. Kate's work is all about crafting solutions that align with Texas values, with a vision of higher education institutions helping make Texas a model of liberty and innovation. Kate also competed on the beach volleyball team, bringing that same discipline and drive to everything she does. Get ready because this conversation is full of vision, purpose, and truth. Let's get into it. Kate, welcome to the show. Thank you for having me. I'm excited to uh to chat with you. Well, um, I just love your background and I also love that you are an athlete. Um, I was an athlete too, not in college, but early on. And um, I know how much work that is, how much dedication it takes, and the tenacity and grit that you learn from doing something like that.
SPEAKER_02So absolutely a lot of transferable skills there in the policy world.
SPEAKER_00Oh, for sure, for sure. In fact, you know, I tell people all the time now one of my hiring requirements, like you may not even make it past my hiring if you weren't um if you didn't grow up on a farm or ranch or weren't weren't an athlete, like a serious athlete, because the work ethic is just built in there and that's so hard to teach. Absolutely. You know, there's there's a few other things that could probably go along with that. A little FFA, maybe, maybe if you were also on the and band or something like that, but but something like that where you've already had to dedicate yourself to something, right? Learn the value of time and time management and all those skills. I agree.
SPEAKER_02And teamwork.
SPEAKER_00Teamwork, yeah, transferable skills, right? And um, I think that's something that's so missing in our education system today. Um, and and we've taken a lot of that out of what every child gets, right? Absolutely. Um just multiple things that we can talk about. But you and I were specifically gonna get into um the Islamification of our education system today. Not only, you know, I talk a lot about it sometimes in the K through 12 space, but you're also gonna bring the whole conversation back to higher ed. I was in um Austin last week at the State Board of Education meeting, we were working on the social studies teaks. Um, they were going through their second reading. And after a lot of amendments and very, very hard work by our state board of education, um, I think we ended up with a really good uh social studies teaks, which for all the viewers out there is our history and our civics. Um but what has surprised me through this process, through the lot we had to, they do the first reading and then the second reading, and was how many um people of Islamic faith were there trying to remove our Judeo-Christian values as reference points for things like our founding documents. And they were, they were, they were, they were adamant that it be removed that um even when we talk we were talking about it in the context of the historical value of it, knowing um, needing the Judeo-Christian values and the references, so that you knew what our founding fathers were thinking, you knew where their mindset was, you knew the documents they were using to reference. I mean, there are lots of things in our founding documents that direct right back to the Bible. And um, they were adamant that they'd be removed, almost getting like violent and obscene, and um and even one man saying that we would replace it with the Quran in our education system. And and I just don't think many people out there realize how much this is actually impacting our education system and what the ramifications of it will be.
SPEAKER_02Absolutely. Yeah, no, it's destructive. And you put it perfectly. I do think that any hostile foreign entity knows that they can completely flip a nation on its head if they can get in our schools.
SPEAKER_00Yeah, and they're they're trying to do it as early as possible. Um, and it's it's it's bad. And they're mobilizing. Um, what what I'm seeing in Texas right now is, you know, they're talking, you see a lot of on the news about these cities that are going in. Well, well, that's I mean, most people don't think it's very bad. They're like, okay, they're going over there. But what you don't realize, most people don't realize is happening, is they are looking for an area that they can go into and bring a whole lot of people of is Muslim faith to change the voting in that district. And then they're trying to get control of the school boards and they're trying to get their representative on the state board of education, and they're trying to like have more of a say. So they're actually targeting certain districts so that they can change the voting so that they can get their people into power. And um, people really need to wake up. It's scary. I completely agree, yes. And and I am not anti-Muslim or or anything like that. I just don't like it taking over our education and trying to indoctrinate our children with it. I have friends who are Muslim and they're very nice people, and and that's not what I'm saying. I want to be clear about this. I just don't want them trying to remove our Judeo-Christian values, um, which is our history, our our our our founding documents in our whole country was based on it being a Christian nation. And um yet they are welcome to practice their faith here because of our constitution, right? Um, but that doesn't mean that they get to come in and try to change it all and take it all over.
SPEAKER_02I agree. They ought to come and assimilate. Um, and yes, we should expect that same thing too in the education world, whether it is in K through 12 or higher education, they should come assimilate and learn to appreciate the values of the West instead of trying to change our institutions to appreciate what their what their values are.
SPEAKER_00Because if you watch some of their um imams in the um Islamic faith, that they are very adamant that they're going to take it over and change it. I mean, I'm not making this up. It's not just my supposition. They are telling us what their plan is.
SPEAKER_02Yeah. Loud and clear.
SPEAKER_00Yeah. And um I don't I don't want the Quran in my documents. We're not trying, when we put the biblical values back into our education system, we're not trying to turn people into Christians. We're trying to make them understand the thought processes and the guiding documents at that time that were um guiding our founding fathers to create this great nation, right? Um, not trying to convert people. Um, but their goal is to convert people and to change us. So anyway, um, it was it's been very eye-opening and very scary for me. Um, but I know you've had a lot of education um in the higher ed space about it. So tell us what's going on there.
SPEAKER_02Yeah, um, last interim um there was a charge to investigate what the extent of foreign influence was in uh universities in Texas. And I was shocked. This kind of started my research on how deep does this go and what do we know and what don't we know? Um, and so I set out to look at the receipts of what our Texas universities are um giving in exchange for money to our hostile foreign adversaries. And so, kind of to give a little bit of background, at the federal level, universities they have to disclose any gifts or contracts they enter into with any foreign nation valued at $250,000 or above. So if we go into a contract with England in exchange for research and it's $249,000, we do not have to, the universities do not have to disclose that. But the problem with this is actually a couple of things. First, that $250,000 mark is very high. You can buy a lot of influence for $10,000. Yeah, for sure. Yeah, and but the other problem with that is universities aren't faithfully, faithfully reporting what's over that $250,000 threshold. And on top of that, we're seeing a lot of contracts um going back and forth with with some hostile foreign adversaries that are raising serious questions. So my research has led me into figuring out what those countries are and what they want from our Texas universities. And it's probably no surprise to you or any of the viewers that Texas universities pump out the best research in the nation, if not in the world. We have top-tier military research at Texas AM, we have the best medical research at UTMD Anderson, Texas Tech comes out with phenomenal research. Um, and our adversaries know that. And the receipts have been extremely clear. They want our military research, they want our cybersecurity research, they want our nuclear proliferation research coming out of Texas Engineering Experiment Station at AM, um, and they want our cancer research at UTMD Anderson.
SPEAKER_00Well, and they want the EMP um electromagnetic pulse out of Texas Tech.
SPEAKER_02Yes. I mean, the list goes on. Yeah. And what's crazy about this report um at the federal level of what they're required to disclose, like I mentioned before, is still not enough. We're not seeing the full picture of things. Um and the Department of Education did an investigation several years ago, and they actually found that over $100 million went undisclosed to Texas AM in exchange for military research. So that has led the legislature last session to kind of put their teeth in this and say, okay, we actually need to figure this out. And um, they passed a bill that would um prevent any university from going into a contract with a hostile foreign adversary. This may seem like great news, but the ways that hostile foreign adversaries give to Texas universities, they don't just write a check with their name on it and say China or Iran, they'll route it through intermediaries. And we're seeing that constantly through the Cayman Islands and the list goes on.
SPEAKER_00Or they come to an American company that wants research and they give their money there, and then the company comes to the university, right?
SPEAKER_02Exactly. Yes. They get they're extremely savvy, know exactly how to play around the rules there.
SPEAKER_00So it is kind of alarming there. And it's very alarming. And I think we need to take a second and just say why it's so alarming. And and I can only use examples that I'm aware of, but um, there are lots of these universities that are working on things for our Department of Defense. The EMP that Texas Tech is doing, that's electromagnetic pulse therapy. That is like the future of potential war, right? It's also the way that we defend ourselves against our foreign adversaries. Well, if we have, if they're giving money or if they are giving scholarships to foreign students and they're coming here and learning everything that's going on in our research and then taking that information back, right? Or getting their report from the university back. And then they know either what how our weapons are going to be or how we're going to defend ourselves. And I mean, that's where it's really, really and I mean, and then there's more. There's the the other things that we're creating that are non-military, that they're then stealing all of our knowledge and and everything. And then whoever has spent all the money is getting taken. Um but the the the military part is the part that scares me the most.
SPEAKER_02Same. It's a huge national security risk, and especially with um foreign exchange students coming over here who belong to a hostile foreign nation, their nation oftentimes has laws requiring that they disclose any research information that they have. I mean, not too long ago, there was a um UT PhD student, Omuid Kokabi, when um he went back to Iran, he ended up getting arrested because he didn't disclose the information that he was learning at University of Texas at Austin. So that is one area of the high-red influence that we're seeing. Another area that we're seeing, particularly with Iran, is um their interest in our nuclear um research. And we kind of did a scraping of um professors and looking at different databases and seeing who was simultaneously educated in Texas or a professor in Texas, and then also was educated at University of Tehran. And there's a whole host of professors who are teaching at Texas universities who were educated at the University of Tehran, which is not saying this is inherently a bad thing, but it does raise the question of where does that information go? If they are legally obligated to give it back to their home country, yet they're doing nuclear research here. Is that the in America's best interest?
SPEAKER_00So they've come here, gotten some education, gotten even more by doing the research. And then is it any wonder that we're now find ourselves in a battle with Iran over nuclear power?
SPEAKER_02Absolutely. Absolutely. And these are things that can all be prevented. Um, so we're hoping next session that we can just really rein in um these laws um and lower that reporting threshold from $250,000 to a dollar because universities they they will keep track of this. Um, and taxpayers deserve to know.
SPEAKER_00Well, and how do we how do we also write the bills in such a way that we can track it back? Like, you know, whether it's coming from an individual or coming from a corporation, US even, like, because they can be used without knowing they're being used, right? Um but track it back, all the money back to where it originated.
SPEAKER_02I agree. And there was a bill that was proposed last session, House Bill 4195, that the language of the bill, it would capture all of the intermediaries uh by top or I think part of the definition was any company that had a majority of stock in a hostile foreign nation, anyone on I forget the exact language, but it would catch all those intermediaries, even if a hostile foreign nation did not have their name on it. It would go all the way back and track it and and prevent them from giving it because it's it's way too much of a risk and we can't um we can't risk it.
SPEAKER_00No, we absolutely can't. Um, and so that bill did not pass. It did not pass.
SPEAKER_02Um we know why um House Bill 127 passed in its place, and this bill, it just set up a research security council um headed up by Texas AM, who's historically the worst at reporting. Um, and it also prevented hostile foreign nations from giving to Texas universities, which it sounds like a great step, and it is. However, like I mentioned before, it's not enough because they're way too politically savvy to get around it. So hopefully we can take some of that language from 4195 and tack it on to 127 um as well. And um 4195 also covered K through 12 as well, because K through 12 is a black box. We have no idea what's going on besides the occasional news story popping up, and we're seeing a lot of them now. Um, but universities are not required to report that. Um, so 4195 would um and capture um K through 12 as well.
SPEAKER_00So when you say K through 12, it would capture the college education of teachers back to K through 12, or would it would actually the K through 12 schools, public schools would have to report foreign donations?
SPEAKER_02Public schools would have to report that as well. And if anyone who's working for a ISD is funded by a foreign nation and a hostile foreign nation, parents would be required to know. And in addition, if any curriculum um is made outside of the United States, parents should by law know.
SPEAKER_00Well, and I think it shouldn't just be made outside of the United States. I think it should be if it's being funded. Funded, absolutely. That's another thing. Because um interesting that you bring that up. When I was in Austin last week, we were also working on the personal financial literacy TEAK, and um there was a big battle um between so we we we start off with the TA suggested TEAKS, and then there was another version of the TEAKS that was pushed um by a member, and we very rapidly ascertained that that version identically matched an existing curriculum. And um it came to my attention that this this push would have given that particular curriculum vendor a hundred percent, like almost a hundred percent control over the whole PFL curriculum market, right? Um and then it came to light that they were also going to be giving it for free. And you may know this terminology. I just know the acronym OER. Open education resource? Yes, an open education resource. So at the very end of the fight for HB 27, which is the bill that in this last legislative session created the requirement to have a semester of personal financial literacy for every high school student, which I'm so happy about. I actually was one of the people that instigated that bill, and I'm grateful to Representative Ken King and Senator Flores for pushing it and getting it passed. The OER was added right at the last second to that bill, which an open educational resource is basically a free curriculum, like to schools, and so they can use it. Now it's supposed to be on an approved list at the TEA, but there is no, and I'm you're gonna have to tell me the meaning of this acronym is real IMRA, um, which is basically um the TEA has to go through a review process of the curriculum to get it approved. But OERs don't. OERs do not have to be approved by the TEA. And it is the way that companies can put things into a curriculum that we don't believe in, right? And then they give free curriculum to the schools, and there's no penalty to the schools because the curriculum is free.
SPEAKER_02Free, yes.
SPEAKER_00And so it's this whole end run around us trying to safeguard our children and the curriculum that they're receiving and making sure it one meets our standards, but two meets our moral, ethical, and values of the state of Texas. And it's an end run around that, this OER. And um, we need to take a bill this session to require that every material, including OERs, go through an EMRA, so a review process, and that only reviewed and approved materials can be used in our schools, even if they are OER. Because this it became very apparent to me that this is what any foreign entity can do to influence our education. They can create a curriculum and they can give it to the schools for free, and there's no penalty if the schools use it.
SPEAKER_02Yeah, absolutely. I mean, we saw that in um Irving not too long ago, where a school was using a Qatari-funded curriculum that um had maps of uh the Middle East world that completely erased Israel from it.
SPEAKER_00Um, but although it was TIKS aligned, uh the school could still use that curriculum because we don't have a curriculum review review process that um that's that pre-curriculum, that OER curriculum is their end run around everything that we're trying to do to protect our children with the curriculum.
SPEAKER_02Yeah, no, definitely something to take a deeper dive into this next session.
SPEAKER_00Yeah. Well, I didn't mean to sidetrack you there, but let's let's give them some more examples because like it's I think it's hard to believe that we are where we are. And so without telling people specific examples, I just don't think that they can grasp it.
SPEAKER_02Yeah, I mean, um, the biggest and most alarming example, it's shocking. Um, it goes right back to the Texas Engineering Experiment Station. And like I mentioned before, this is military research, cybersecurity, nuclear proliferation. And when the Department of Education um did their investigation and saw that they failed to report $100 million, they confronted Texas Engineering Experiment Station and said, you know, what's going on here? And the spokesperson for Tease said, we are not legally required to report because we do not act on behalf of the university because they're an affiliate organization. So this kind of shed light to the fact that, whoa, where are all these affiliate organizations? What research are they responsible for in these universities in Texas? And if they are responsible for national or for very sensitive research in exchange for intellectual property, we got to look at these affiliates as well because clearly they do not think that they have to abide by the law, even though they're run by university faculty. Um, so that's an example. Um, Zen Dong Chang, um, also another AM professor charged with wire fraud, um, working for the Chinese Communist Party. So we're having professors from within also working against us. Um, I mean, the the examples go on and on and on. We see the form. VP of Iran, his daughter, Dorisa Satiri, she is a researcher at Rice University. And her dad, former VP of Iran, is now a scientist. So I wonder where all of his daughter's research is going towards in this pipeline. Like there's no um nothing, it's just a wide open pipeline where our research is going there. So yeah, I mean, the the examples are endless and we we have to put a stop to it because it's it's way too much of a risk. And that's what we're seeing at the higher ed level. Um K through 12, um, we're also seeing this as well. I think there was a triggering event or event that kind of triggered a series of investigations, which was the Grapevine Collyville ISD. Um, their facilities were rented out for the Dallas Islamic Games. Um, and this was sponsored by uh CARE as well.
SPEAKER_00Um and so which, and just to remind the viewers, CARE has been designated by the government as, or by the governor rather, as a foreign terrorist operative in Texas.
SPEAKER_02Thank you. Thank you for pointing that out. And so um, what are these facilities? Why are they targeting our K-12 facilities? Why are we even, why are our ISDs even approving this in the first place? Um, but also um Qatar as well. I know they're not designated as a hostile foreign nation, um, but their track record and funding Hamas and other terrorist organizations um is pretty steep. And looking at how they are infiltrating our K-12 system is shocking as well. They are funding our biggest ISDs in Texas, particularly Houston ISD, Austin ISD. We're also seeing Pflugerville ISD to set up Arabic language programs. Our kids can't read on gradient grade level. Why are we having them read, learn how um to speak Arabic? Like it doesn't make any sense. But even on top of that, Qatar Foundation, they are infiltrating our teacher training programs, particularly at University of Texas at Austin, teaching teachers how to go into a classroom and teach these Arabic programs as well. Um, and this is just another way of saying this is a soft power play. It's not necessarily like they are, in addition to giving checks, but um teaching kids to be more sensitive to these issues and to um cultural awareness. Um that's that's the soft power play that gets kids used to seeing um different cultures, which I don't know, no wonder why we have a bunch of college graduates uh graduating from school and hating the West.
SPEAKER_00I mean, it it's they have a plan and they are they are executing it at every single level, right? And and I think most people are completely unaware of it, right? And I know that it's it's commonplace for people to just worry about their life and their family. And you see it now, people don't even want to go vote, let alone, but but I just don't I think that if more people knew what was actually happening, that that by not voting, by not paying attention, by not getting involved, you very soon are going to find that you're not living in the same country that you've lived in, the same state, the same country. And um it I think it's never been more important than people look up and look around at what's going on and start doing their own investigation and start stepping up and taking a stand and saying, no, this isn't okay. Even if your stand is just to call your legislators and say, hey, what is happening? Please stop this. Yeah. Um, it's really critically important. Um any other things you want to tell us?
SPEAKER_02I mean, I can keep going on about this. A couple interesting things that we saw this past year with Austin ISD, since it's so close to our home base at TPPF, is they no longer celebrate Good Friday, um, and they still celebrate Id al Fitter, which is a very important Islamist holiday. Um, so again, this just shows the subtle shift in how they are, how our kids are growing up in these schools. And so I that's an interesting thing that's happening in our ISDs. And then also we've been tracking.
SPEAKER_00And I think it's it's leading to the anti-Semitism and it's totally, you know, I mean, it's it's when your kids are raised that way, then they will go that way, no matter how the parents are.
SPEAKER_02Exactly. And it's only uh a generation or two away from these kids being in the legislature. So how are our laws going to be affected if this is how they are essentially groomed into thinking right now? So it's really alarming. And um, we've been tracking some zoning and planning meetings in different cities around Texas, and those are always fascinating. Um, when a city has a plot of land up for discussion of what should we do with it, you'll always see a bunch of Muslims line up and say we should build a school here. Um, and so it is very it's a very calculated effort, and we're seeing this on multiple fronts um in Texas right now. So we're continuing to keep our eyes out on that and um tracking multiple areas around Texas as well. Yeah.
SPEAKER_00It's happening and it's serious. Yeah, could not agree more. Yeah. I'm glad that we're bringing awareness to it. I know another thing that this is completely a shift of topics, everyone. So, but bear with us because we really wanted to get into this today. You and I are very passionate about the trades. And let's talk a little bit about what's happening with the trades, both in K through 12 and looking at it from a higher education space too.
SPEAKER_02Yeah, no, absolutely. Actually, a huge uh report just dropped yesterday. Uh so this is fresh news in the world of data centers and career and technical education. We are seeing some of the biggest tech and construction companies out there, Meta, Google, and Compass data centers, they've all just pledged money for skilled, skilled trades training. Um, and so we're talking almost $200 million combined to invest in the next generation of workers to build that pipeline. Data centers are a little, I mean, it's it's a very new topic. We're still trying to figure out um kind of our position on it at TPPF. Um, but we were having to outsource workers um from California and New York to help build these data centers because it is such um a um there's a need for scale diaper and we don't have it here in Texas.
SPEAKER_00Exactly. And we're not we're not building it through our K through 12 education system.
SPEAKER_02Could not agree more. Um so with data centers, it was uh this was a huge, a huge win. Um, but in terms of building that through the K through 12 system, um, we are seeing that there is a mismatch in terms of what uh high schools are offering as CTE clusters and what their local community needs. Um so we would love to see more of an alignment between what they're offering, such as construction, plumbing, HVAC techs, um, and what their local community needs so we can ensure that we're actually filling these high-demand, high-paying, paying jobs. Um the earlier we can get them started, the better.
SPEAKER_00Well, I I wholeheartedly agree. I mean, I I have advocated for the last few years. I don't think that we need one college prep education for all. And we as parents and grandparents and just friends um have got to stop saying, what college are you going to when you're graduating from high school? We've got to change the narrative and we've got to make it more like, what are you gonna do when you graduate? Because we need to make it normal for kids to go to trade school or to create their own business or to do something and not just think that, oh, you're not going to college. Oh, I'm so sorry about that. It is there are so many great jobs that are in need and will be in need even once AI is fully here that don't require college educations. We've got to normalize um making it okay not to go to college.
SPEAKER_02Yeah, absolutely. And going to trades is not a plan B. It's not. And there's dignity in that work. And a lot of times people going straight into the trades after high school are earning way more than a uh college graduate. Exactly.
SPEAKER_00Yeah, especially right now. I mean, I have friends who's here in Lubbock at Texas Tech. A lot of kids are graduating with marketing degrees or with communications degrees, and I'm like, ah, I'm not sure. Um, but I mean, I'm even worried about accounting degrees in the future, right? Because computers can do all of that. I mean, as a parent right now with kids in college, I keep talking to them about their majors because they need to be making sure that what they want to do is still going to be a job they can have when they get right. And we know the trades are needed. And I've been seeing studies recently that like beginning salary in like electrician or plumbing is like around $40,000, but you can go up into the hundreds of thousands of dollars, especially if you own your own business. And there you're taking the trade and the entrepreneurship part. And um, I'm a hundred percent um advocating for a transformation of school to not have just the one track, but to open it up to multiple tracks through high school, where yes, you can have that STEM-based college track and you can have another college track, but then there's a there is a very good CTE trade track where kids actually have a license to get a good job and make good money from themselves when they graduate. And then also an entrepreneurship, because there's so many small businesses out there. And these business owners like me had to figure it out on their own because no one ever taught me how to be a business owner. And if we could give people those skills on how to be a business owner, I think that it would help their families, it would break the cycle of poverty and it would create the potential for generational wealth and therefore be better for our society as well. Absolutely.
SPEAKER_02I agree. And also to touch on a point that you made um earlier in terms of these CTE courses, something that is a simple fix that we believe will fundamentally change the trajectory of CTE in the future is who qualifies as a teacher for CTE courses. So prior to two years ago, you could have an industry professional with 20 plus years of experience go into a local high school and teach. Now, there was a change in statute in um two legislative sessions ago that changed the definition of who qualifies to be a CTE teacher, requiring them to have a four-year bachelor degree. So in some CTE courses, I guess this can make sense, but when you look at construction, for example, a lot of these professionals do not have a four-year bachelor's degree, nor do they need one. No. And they've got so much experience that those kids need. Absolutely. And so we've been seeing too that the number of apprenticeships and internships in between um years of high school is just plummeting because they do not have the industry professionals in the class saying come work with me this summer because they're not allowed in the classroom.
SPEAKER_00Yeah. Well, come work. And if it's not with me, I have friends, I'll help you find you know, jobs.
SPEAKER_02Yeah. Exactly. And then hopefully that can uh break the college for all fallacy that we shouldn't be falling for. Um, so yes, I think that is a super easy and simple fix. And then hopefully this can make the trades more um attractive for for high school students.
SPEAKER_00Well, I think between those of us in the parenting, grandparenting world, changing our requirement or or thing that we need to push kids to go to college. Let's push them to do something that they're passionate about. Let's push them to do something that um has a potentially good outcome for them, where they can make good money and not just say go to college and get a basket weaving degree, right? Or or even go to college right now. Like I I would not be pushing my child into a marketing degree or or a communications degree um unless it's around policy, right? But even if they're going to do that, and and for your kids who have just graduated with that, they need to be learning AI because the only kids that are going to do well in that space are going to be masters of AI tools. And so, like we've got to be realistic about it.
SPEAKER_02Yeah, I agree. And I think you hit it spot on with parents and grandparents' messaging as well. I mean, I certainly was a product of that and my parents and their friends saying this is the golden ticket in order to have a seat at the table. I mean, you got to go graduate from college. It can show that you started something and finished something. And while I do think in some senses, it's true, it can show that you can complete something that you started. You can certainly get that in the trades as well and um high-paying jobs.
SPEAKER_00You know, and this is this is the reality. The TEA just came out with data a short time ago where they worked with the Texas Workforce Commission and they tracked kids for six years after high school graduation. And what they found is that only 36% of high school graduates, six years after graduation, are getting a college degree, a junior college degree, or any kind of trade certification. That means 64% of kids only have their high school diploma, which today has zero skills attached to it. And so if we don't do some sort of transformation of our education system and get these kids actual skills, and by skills, yes, I'd like them to have trades, but I'd also like them to be good readers. I'd like them to have good communication skills, good written skills, I'd like them to be able to think critically, to problem solve, and to have some level of emotional intelligence. I think those are actually the most important things that we need to get back into our education system that will help every single child.
SPEAKER_02I completely agree. Um, and I don't I don't think it's too far off for Texas schools to do that and with the legislature's help as well. I could not agree more.
SPEAKER_00I'm actually taking a bill to this next legislative session to create a task force to look at how we transform education. Like if we could dream, we know the system that we have today is broken and we're we're failing on every metric. And we've we've transformed our education system four times before in the history of this country, 1913, 1933, 1953, in the mid to late 80s. It has been almost 50 years, which is the longest we've gone without transformation. And I think it's high time. I think, and I think that us failing on every metric is part of it. But the other thing is now we have AI and it is going to be completely transforming the workforce and what the skills are that the workforce needs. And so we need to be looking at that and saying, hey, Texas is number one in economy, we're number one in job growth, we're number one in growth. Um, but our workforce is down in like the 25th to 37th ranked. And if we want to stay number one in economy and be the best state in the country, we've got to elevate what we're doing for these kids. And it's critically important for all these kids. We cannot keep graduating kids that don't have any skills. That's not fair to them. So we've got to transform this system. Create the I I hope that I can get the state legislator to create this task force this year where we actually look all across the world who's doing what best. And then we dream as big as we possibly can to make Texas have the best education system in not only the country, but the world.
SPEAKER_02Yeah, I think that's a wonderful proposal. And hopefully the legislature will take that up. And you're absolutely right that we can't graduate kids if they don't have skills, because also that's not loving as well. And so we are hoping to do as well as far as reading goes. At third grade, if a student cannot read on grade level, then why are we pushing them on to the fourth grade? Um, if all of just their friends are going on and just it's a multiplication effect where in third grade you go from learning to read to reading to learn. And if you can't read, then you're screwed. And so why are we passing on these kids who why are we passing them from first grade, honestly?
SPEAKER_01Yeah.
SPEAKER_00Um, why are we passing them from second grade? Why, when they are behind as much as 10% behind where they're supposed to be, why are we not immediately giving them a tutor's and starting intervention? That's what we need to be doing. Because, and and again, for my I've I know I've said this before, but in case it's new of you, I wanted to go over this. Currently in Texas, 54% of third graders by the end of third grade cannot read at grade level. The importance of the third grade reading level is that number one, you finish teaching kids how to read at the end of third grade, and then they have to use their reading to as a learning tool starting in fourth grade and beyond. So they're not going, if they're not there, they're not going to keep being taught to read. But it is also the third grade reading level is considered the school to prison pipeline. And based on historical data, um, kids who cannot read at a third grade level by the end of third grade, 80% of them, this is what we've seen historically, 80% of them will end up either on welfare or in the prison or both. And it is a horrible statistic that we are leaving these children to. So absolutely they should not move on from third grade. But I don't think they should move on from second grade or first grade either if they're not on reading level. Because it just gets harder every year. Those skills are supposed to be building. And so if they lost the foundational ones in first grade or before, or then in second grade, then I don't think that we should just be stopping them at third grade. I think that we should be stopping them before. Yeah. Maybe we like I have this whole other idea, which I don't have any science to back it up yet, but it's just like because the rationale that people have for passing these kids on is because it hurts them from an emotional standpoint. It hope hurts their confidence and their whatever. And on the one hand, I can see that, but we have lowered our standards and we are doing these kids a disservice. Um, so what if we just got rid of grade levels altogether? Whoa, I heard that. Yes. So like I I want to go back and create like primer, which is like pre-K through kindergarten.
SPEAKER_02Yeah.
SPEAKER_00And on average, you should be there two years. And when you master these skills, you will move on. But and then, and then we take first, second, and third, and we create primary, and on average you'll be there three years. But the kids won't know because there will still be kids with them that they were with before, and then some will move. Yeah, and so they won't have that emotional upheaval in their life of knowing they were held back, right? That's interesting. Like, you know, I'm trying to figure out common sense approaches to the the reason rationale I get for not holding kids back and being like, okay, well, how do we fix both not letting them move ahead when they're not prepared to, and and not having them have that emotional upheaval of being held back? Well, what if you just don't have grade levels?
SPEAKER_02Clustering them together, yeah.
SPEAKER_00Yeah, clustering together based on okay, you're you're this level of math, and we don't tell them what level they are, but all the kids are at this level of math are together, and all the kids at this level of math together until their skills improve. And with reading, all the kids at this level together and all the kids at this level of reading are together until their skills improve, right? And and a kid can have mastered the math, but like my kids would be not as good at the English because they're dyslexic, and it would take them longer. And so until they've mastered both the math and the reading, they don't where they're actually doing that learning.
SPEAKER_02Yeah. Right? That is a really interesting concept.
SPEAKER_00Um, something I need I need to get some some more science behind it, but I'm like, I'm all about trying to have common sense approaches. Like when you tell me this is the problem, and then you tell me why we can't fix it. I'm trying to always come up with solutions to fix both parts so that we actually don't just have excuses anymore.
SPEAKER_02Yeah, no, absolutely. Um, that reminds me in Mississippi, um, with them implementing the Mississippi miracle and the third grade attention. Even just having the threat of holding a kid back raised everyone's game. The teachers were doing better. Expectations were raised and they lived up to that. Exactly. Yes, and parents were getting more involved because they didn't want their child to be left behind. Um, so it does raise everyone's game. But I do like your idea. Um, we may have to look more into that.
SPEAKER_00Yes, let's do it. Um, and that's the whole premise behind this task force that I want to create this year is that we investigate all the things. Like we would go and investigate what they did really great in the Mississippi Miracle, right? We would look at what Finland and Sweden are doing utilizing computers, and then they took them out because they found they were horrible. So, like, you know, at what grade level do we let the kids have computers and maybe bring in some AI learning, but maybe we protect the young kids where they need to be handwriting and getting that, you know, science of crossing their body with the handwriting and for kids like missing that step of print and then missing the step of cursive actually has a detrimental effect to the way that their brain works. So looking at the science of it, looking at who's doing it great, and then looking at the science of it and figuring out what is going to be the best for the kids of Texas and how we can give them the best education that we absolutely can. Yeah, I completely agree. And bringing the best ideas to the table and discussing them and vetting them and looking at the science and just really figuring out how we can absolutely do the best we can do.
SPEAKER_02Yeah, and taking inventory of what we are currently doing. What is good?
SPEAKER_00Yeah. What well and what what because there are things that we're doing that are good, but how can we even take those and improve upon them, right? Absolutely. And by the way, in this whole thing, I want to be very, very clear. Um, I am not blaming the people, I am not blaming the teachers. Um, I think the system is broken, and I think the curriculum has been watered down, and I think that we have lowered expectations to meet test scores, and that instead of holding To high standards. Um, there's a school in New York, I think it's called Success Academy, and they have systematically elevated their expectations of kids, and the kids are rising to meet it. And we need to get back to that in Texas. We have the best people, the best teachers. We need to raise our expectations and give these kids the best education that we possibly can. Yeah. So well, okay. Any last words that oh did we at all talk about um the trades and and the higher ed? Because I think higher ed needs to be getting into the trade school. Um they need to be pushing trades as well. Um, especially um, I know that there's a bunch of junior colleges that are really struggling right now. And I think if they could transition from still keep doing the basics, the English and the stuff for kids that that need that before they go maybe go on to college, but transitioning into being trade schools and helping get more trades out into the workforce, more trade, you know, kids with trade degrees.
SPEAKER_02I agree. I mean, you brought up an interesting point with community colleges. And so um they um have taken up the model after TSTC, the performance um funding formula, um, where they get state funds based off of how they prepare their students in a high-paying high-wage job. And so they do that through a different system called credentials of value. So they're more incentivized to train up their kids and kind of gird them up with the skills that they do need. Um, as far as how that would integrate into a four-year college or a four-year university, I would love to see the same funding formula and the pressure on university to actually equip their kids to graduate into a high-paying, high-demand job and look at return on investment and take inventory of the programs that a university offers that straddles their students with so much debt. Um and they can't earn a good wage. Exactly. And why are taxpayers funding the gender and women's studies who they don't they're shraddled with debt 10 years post post-graduation? So um, I'm not just saying gender and woman studies out of uh left field. That is actually, we did a study on this and ranked the lowest ROI programs, and that one repeatedly comes back up as one of the lowest ROI programs. Um, so I think you're absolutely right. Um, and if they can incentivize trades as well, I'm sure that that would be great. However, I I don't know how much universities would want to steer away from um getting in more students and more money as well. But um I love the idea.
SPEAKER_00Well, I think both the K through 12 system and um higher ed both need to start doing something for their students. And that is connecting the dots between why you're getting an education and what you can do with it. They need to be teaching these kids what their options are way before the degree comes into play and being like, here are skills you have you're really good at, here are things you're interested in. These are all the different careers that match up with that and how much money you can make in each. Because I think a lot of kids end up in gender and wind women's studies because it seemed interesting to them, right? But they've never thought about what careers go along with that or can they make money at those, right? And and that's our fault as a system and as a society that we're not introducing these kids to these high-paying careers that are in need and saying, you've got these skills, you've got these, these um things that you're interested in, and they line up with these. Like um, I once had someone tell me, Ashley, every kid needs to take chemistry, biology, physics, because what if they find out by taking it that they're really good at it, and then they know that they want to be a doctor? And I'm like, that's and that's why we've pushed this college prep for all, because we needed more STEM people in the STEM industries. And that's why we force every kid to take chemistry, biology, and physics and algebra and geometry, right? But what if we backed up a step and in junior high and again in in high school, we actually tested them and we figure out which kids were STEM inclined, like they had those skills, and then which other ones were were interested in things STEM related, and then we we helped them find a path to a job that was really in need um that they could make a fabulous living at, that they did may not have known existed, right? Like I think that both high schools, junior high, high school, and colleges need to be doing that with every student so that we're connecting the importance of the education with what they can do with it. I agree in fostering their curiosity in those particular areas. And that's why I think we need to start in junior high school. Well, actually, I think we need to go all the way back and start in elementary school, but in elementary school, it would look different. Like businesses, business leaders in the community would come in and tell them about like doctors would come in, scientists would come in, um, accountants would come in and teach kids about different careers that they may not have ever been exposed to, right? Like start that, but then in junior high, start the testing and find out what their aptitudes are and what their interests are and start telling them about things that line up with that and carry that all the way through high school, you know, possibly then they and their parents could pick in the future, hopefully, a track that matches up with that and that they're excited about. And then these kids actually are excited about education and excited about learning because they know what they can do with it.
SPEAKER_02Yes, I agree. And I guess one more thing that I'll add on that too is how do we incentivize these counselors in um Texas high schools to kind of foster that as well? Because they'll get an allotment of state funding based off of how many kids they can send to a four-year degree. So, how do we make that balance um even if for kids who want to go in the trades as well?
SPEAKER_00I mean, we're gonna have to change all of it. And that's why I think this task force is so important because it's going to have to look at all those things and figure out one, what do we need to be doing for these kids? What skills do they need to be getting so they can have great careers? And then how do we backtrack that into the school system that we have today with the people, the human resources that we have, and then the physical resources that we have? How do we make it work? And that's what that's why I think that task force is so incredibly important because it's going to have to look at all of those things, right? Not just what, how do we want to teach reading and how do we want to teach science and how do we want to teach math at each stage? Because I think it should be different along the path. Um, but do we need to start actually having more trade focus? Do we need to start teaching entrepreneurship to because 70% of our GDP is dependent on it? You know, do we need to have the aptitude testing and interest testing so that we can then help these kids get closer to finding their purpose by aligning them with careers that will match those? And then how do we take the human resources, the teachers and the administrators that are great and and retrain them or tweak what they're doing, for sure retweak the incentives because these teachers need, and I know there's a debate on pay, but they need to be paying, be being paid more. And they're critically important to our kids' future. And um and they've got skills. And then what are we going to do with the buildings that we have sitting here? How do we utilize everything that we have now without making it that part change too much, but yet change the directory and the outcomes of these kids?
SPEAKER_02Yes. No, I think the the task force would certainly shake things up and allow us to examine why we're doing the things that we are and what we what we need to change. Um, so I love that idea.
SPEAKER_00Thanks. Well, tell everybody how they can get a hold of you and where they can find more resources.
SPEAKER_02Um, well, I work at Texas Public Policy Foundation, and so you can find a plethora of resources, whether it's on education or pretty much any other policy area at texaspolicy.com. And my info is on there as well, as well as my email. Um so please feel free to reach out um with any ideas or any any questions you may have.
SPEAKER_00And just a reminder this is Kate Byerley, and she is in Austin, Texas at the Texas Public Policy Foundation. Kate, thank you so much for being with us today. I really appreciate you coming on. And man, it was fun, and yet I know how much more work we have to do. Just just the things we highlighted in this conversation. So I look forward to working with you more and hopefully changing the trajectory for Texas students and making Texas better than it's ever. Yes, thank you for having me. I really appreciate it. Well, come back and see us again.
SPEAKER_01Okay.
SPEAKER_00And thank you to the viewers today. Thanks for joining us. We hope that you'll join us next time as we figure out ways that we can transform the K through 12 education system. We'll see you then.
