Jamie Christyn; Over The Top

Jamie Christyn is a writer, creator, and founder of Over The Top, a platform centered on intentional living, healing, and reclaiming self-worth after betrayal and loss. After navigating the unraveling of a long marriage, Jamie began sharing her story to help others untangle shame, rediscover clarity, and understand that someone else’s choices do not define their value.

After years of internalizing shame for someone else’s behavior, Jamie reached a turning point where clarity replaced self-blame — and healing began. Today, she uses her voice to help others understand the difference between effort and responsibility, love and self-abandonment, and forgiveness and self-betrayal.

Through honest storytelling, gratitude practices, and mindset work, Jamie explores what it means to move forward with dignity, faith, and self-respect — even when life doesn’t turn out as planned. Her work resonates with women who are learning to trust themselves again and rebuild a life rooted in truth, peace, and purpose.

You can find her on Instagram, Facebook and TikTok @livingoverthetop

Transcript

SPEAKER_00 0:00

Welcome to Lipstick and Legacy, where your story matters and where your journey has purpose, where we lift our community one story at a time. Welcome, Jamie. Would you like to introduce yourself?

SPEAKER_01 0:12

Yes. All right. Well, my name is Jamie. Um, I was married for 10 years. I have three children. I am divorced. Um, I have three older sisters. One of them passed away from cancer. And I am a faithful member of the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints. My faith is a huge part of who I am. And it has helped guide me through a lot of the tragedies that I've experienced in my life. I actually was just writing some notes down in the car because I was having some thoughts that, you know, no matter how hard you try in your life, there are things that you are inevitably not immune from. Like you're not immune from disease, you're not immune from illness, from loss of a loved one, you're not immune from other people's choices. And, you know, when those things hit, when those tragedies happen in our lives, how do we find the power to move forward?

SPEAKER_00 1:21

Yes. Especially when you're trying your best. I've found that when I was going through my hardest times, I thought there's no way anything else bad could happen because this is so bad and so big that there's no possible way. But I've realized you're never immune from hard things. They just keep piling on. Do you work now? What's your career? What does that look like?

SPEAKER_01 1:44

Um, I'm mainly a stay-at-home mom. So my custody split is 6040. And I do real estate and I'm also a mold inspector.

SPEAKER_02 1:56

Nice.

SPEAKER_01 1:56

Yeah, that's kind of what I do for passive income, which is nice that I can spend a lot of my time with my kids when I have them.

SPEAKER_00 2:05

That's nice. That's why I went into education, just knowing that as a teacher, I'd be able to be on my kids' schedule, be able to work around work basically when I was having to work full-time. So I understand those kinds of careers that are flexible. So good for you. You have a platform. I've been noticing you all over social media, and that's why I reached out to you, and it's called Over the Top. What does that phrase mean to you? And how did it become the name of your platform?

SPEAKER_01 2:34

So I actually I love the name of my platform because it ironically came from heartbreak. Um, so during my divorce, I uh went through a lot of depositions, and so we deposed my husband, his business partners, and their wives. And after the the morning after all of the depositions, I received a massively long text from one of the partners, and they said the text was filled with threats and gaslighting manipulation. And when I first received the text, I was like shocked. And I screenshotted it, I sent it to my attorney, and I was like, What do I do with this? And he was like, do not respond. Um, so I didn't. But as I was prompted to really start sharing my story, I realized, you know, when I was trying to figure out what I should name my platform, I guess, or what should be, you know, my handle. I was thinking, hmm. I went back to that text and I remember in the text, she called she said, You and your family are known for being over the top, meaning we over exaggerate everything, we're so much, we're too much, people think that about us. And I got to thinking, well, you know what? I'm gonna embrace that. And so even if I'm thought of as over the top, or even if I'm thought of as too much, then those people are just not my people. And so that's where the name came from, live, you know, living over the top. And I love it because she was trying to say it as an insult. And originally it hit me like it was hurtful, but now I'm like, shoot, if it's not over the top, then I don't want it.

unknown 4:37

You know?

SPEAKER_00 4:38

I love the line, why do and you can overdo. And that's basically like how I live my life. I'm like, why do and you can overdo? So just be big, be bold, show up.

SPEAKER_01 4:48

Show up, be yourself. And if people are gonna criticize you for being yourself or going all in, then they're not your people.

SPEAKER_00 4:55

So, what did your life look like before it dramatically changed? And we'll get into how and why it changed, but what did it look like before it changed?

SPEAKER_01 5:03

Well, so I I met my husband a year after college. Well, we had known each other before that, but we had started dating a year after college. And um we got engaged, and then I went and served a mission for my church. He went and served a mission from his church.

SPEAKER_00 5:18

And where'd you go?

SPEAKER_01 5:19

I went to Washington Everett Mission, Spanish speaking.

SPEAKER_00 5:22

Awesome. My daughter's in Portland, Oregon, Spanish speaking, right now. Yes. And she's almost done.

SPEAKER_01 5:26

It's like right there.

SPEAKER_00 5:27

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 5:28

Um, so we got married shortly after our missions, and two years into our marriage, um, sorry, let me start over. So we got married, and while we were dating, I was like, Do you have any problems with the pornography? He's like, No. I'm like, okay. So then we get married, and I'm like, man, after on our honeymoon, he was like, it was great, and then the last day, I kind of initiated intimacy, and he was like, No, I don't want to. And I was like, what the heck? I felt bad, like maybe it was me, you know, like we've had this. Yeah, yeah. We've had this wonderful week together, what's going on? That that pattern of me initiating um and him turning me down kind of went throughout the rest of our marriage. Um, with that, two years into our marriage, after, or I guess it was three years into my our marriage, my sister got diagnosed with stage four colon cancer, and I got pregnant with my first, and then um I had my first baby, and after I had had my first baby, he was a few months old, and I had asked my husband again, you know, do you have any problems with pornography? And I had asked him before that, even in our marriage, which he had always denied, and he said yes. And I was like, Finally, I feel like finally I'm getting somewhere, like you're finally telling me the truth of something. And I was like, Well, maybe that's why you're treating, like, maybe that's why you don't treat me as good. And he's like, Well, I don't think that's why they're connected, or I don't think they're connected. And I'm like, So you're admitting to me that you don't treat me very good, but you're not willing to do anything about it necessarily, or the why, yeah.

SPEAKER_00 7:15

Not admitting to the why or connecting those two things, yes.

SPEAKER_01 7:18

Yes, yeah. So anyway, um, other than that, we continued to go through, we traveled a lot, there were good times, there were hard times. I feel like since I've been apart from or like away from the marriage, I've been able to look back and see that there was a cycle of mistreatment. And the interesting thing about a cycle of mistreatment is that you realize even the good times are part of the cycle. So even there were even though there were good times and there were difficult times, um those good times were were the highs leading to the lows. And so um, it's really interesting looking back and realizing, wow, when I thought things were good and right, it was actually just part of a continued cycle that I kept experiencing.

SPEAKER_00 8:05

And you were in this for 10 years, you said you were married.

SPEAKER_01 8:07

Yes, yeah, married 10 years.

SPEAKER_00 8:09

So the cycle, three babies, as women of faith, we really put a lot of weight on our marriages. They're not just something we are in and we throw away. So we try to make them work, we try to fix them. Oh and maybe some women in the world might not feel that way about marriage, but we deeply feel um strongly about our marriage, our promises we make. So tell me what that looked like when you're in the cycle with this man, you're creating life with him, you have three children. Now, what did that look like to you? How did you um come to like awareness that, okay, this isn't gonna work? Like, what was that like?

SPEAKER_01 8:47

There were many years before I found out about his affairs, and um many years before that, that I was like, I feel like we should go to marriage counseling because I feel like I need a third party to explain my side to you. I feel like we're speaking different languages. When I would go to explain something to him or tell him when he did X, Y, and Z, it made me feel this way, he would act like he couldn't understand what I was saying. He, or he would turn it around and blame me. Well, I only did that because you did X, Y, and Z. And, you know, with that, I was like, I I really feel like I need an advocate here. So when I would suggest to him, hey, let's go to marriage counseling, which I had done a few times, he always said no. Um, he didn't want to do it. So we didn't until um he told me that he'd wanted a divorce. When he said he'd wanted a divorce, then he was like, okay, fine, I'll agree to marriage counseling. And then it was at it wasn't until that first marriage counseling appointment that I found out he had been having an affair. And and also I found out that during the time that he told me he'd been clean from pornogra from pornography, he actually had not. And so uh it seemed like there were a lot of different lies that had been built one on top of another, leading him to the choices that he had made. I also know that there are things that he has did in our marriage that I will probably never know. But I also have come to realize that I don't need to know everything that he's done in my in our marriage to move on and have closure. Yes. That's not my responsibility to carry, and that's given me a lot of peace.

SPEAKER_00 10:23

So, what would you say to somebody who says pornography is fine in a marriage, it's acceptable, it's something that just happens, it's very normalized. Like, what were the negatives that you saw from the problem or addiction of pornography? If you're okay talking about that?

SPEAKER_01 10:39

I would say that when you know that something is addictive, like drugs, and you say that there's nothing wrong with it, that you are opening the door to really a lot of heartache in your life. And um, I think that pornography convolutes reality. And I think that pornography really changes your ability to connect with what is real versus what is fantasy. And I think that the beautiful thing about living over the top is that you can romanticize your real life because we're living our real life, we're not in a video game, we're not virtually living. We're right here and now, and the way that we're able to connect with our real life is what will help us feel fulfilled.

SPEAKER_00 11:37

That's amazing. I love that, it's beautiful. Um what was the first thing that you shared publicly about all of this?

SPEAKER_01 11:48

Um so I after my divorce, I felt really strongly that I could benefit a lot of other people that had been through similar circumstances and in what way? I wanted them to know that it it does get better and I wanted them to know the things that I did when I was in the trenches that helped me through because I no matter how much support you have, it still feels very isolating. It feels like what you are going through is singular to you, and and in a lot of ways it is. But no situation is the same, right? And no situation is the same, but to know that other people are going through it or have gone through it gives me peace and comfort because I'm like, so you're saying it does get better? Okay, good, then I can I can make it through, you know, and I really wanted to be able to offer that light to other women and even men because it's been so interesting. Since I started my social media platform, I have had men and women reach out to me and say, Thank you so much for being so open about your story. It has given me hope. I got a message from a woman and I was, I had posted myself doing some home how um home projects, and she was like, Wow, I see you like manhandling that hose, and I think I wish I could do that. And then she shared, I just found out five days ago that my husband had been having an affair, and I have been stuck in bed for the last five days. I can't even imagine handling a simple garden hose like that. And honestly, that is how it felt to me. There were so many days where I felt completely and utterly paralyzed. My entire world was crashing before me, and there was nothing I could do to save it. Heaven knows, I did everything I could. And it's well, it's crazy because for my spouse, there were so many things that had led them, led him up to that point that he was not experiencing the crash. Like everything was brand new to me because I didn't know about it. But to him, he was the one who was making all these different choices that had led everything up to that point. And so the distancing in our marriage, the separation for him had happened, you know, over time gradually. And for me, it was just like an atomic bomb feeling it that you know was so hard.

SPEAKER_00 14:17

You talk about openly navigating and um and unraveling long marriage. Can you walk us through what that season of your life looked like? Now that you have some perspective and you were gonna give like a minute answer, what did that season look like for you? What did it look like navigating a 10-year marriage? Um, as it unraveled, like as if you're watching it from the outside perspective and you're watching yourself and you have this perspective now of years later, what did that look like? Like, how are you dealing with your children with living everyday life? You still have kids to feed, you still have lessons to get to. What did that look like for you?

SPEAKER_01 14:59

Um well, because of my ex's job, um, he had multiple busy seasons throughout the year. And so I felt like a lot of that looked like single parenting.

SPEAKER_02 15:14

Okay.

SPEAKER_01 15:14

I can relate to that. Yes. And I, which was honestly in some ways a blessing in disguise because now I am a single parent. And it was like I felt 100% capable because I feel like a lot of my married life had been spent with me and my kids.

SPEAKER_00 15:31

Um Did you feel like you were living two different lives completely? That's how that's how I felt in my first marriage. Like we were living two very separate lives that would kind of conjoin sometimes and then carry on.

SPEAKER_01 15:42

100%. 100%, yes. It felt like we were both living separate lives and then we could connect in the summer and then around holidays.

SPEAKER_00 15:50

Yeah. So that's I think that we we would say Heavenly Father or God prepares us for our situations. And I think that living that single mom life in a marriage prepares us to um take on the things that we're gonna have to take on. And now that I'm in a marriage that's super healthy and functioning, I can't even believe I'm like, oh, this is how it's supposed to be. Like we do things together, we we interact all the time, decisions are mutual. Like I just and I didn't even know what that was. So when you're living in an unhealthy marriage, you don't even know what that looks like. And then when you're in a healthy one, you're like, oh my gosh, that was really unhealthy. Like that was really dysfunctional, but you're in it and you don't even know it, kind of. Right. Yes, that's really yeah, that's interesting. Um let's see. You said that for a long time you internalized shame for someone else's behavior. Why do you think so many women do that?

SPEAKER_01 16:49

I think that we feel responsible for other people's choices to an extent. And I think that sometimes we are, I don't want to say made to feel that way because I really think that you know we have a choice. Um but a lot of times that is manipulation and abuse. You're made to feel responsible for someone else's for someone else's actions. Well, you made me do it. I remember two weeks before my marriage was till we filed for divorce. We were sitting at the kitchen table. My husband was sitting down, I had I was standing and I had my baby on my hip, and I said, You blame me for everything. And he said, No, I don't. And I said, You've literally told me that had you been married to someone else, you would have never done what you had done. And he said, Well, who else is there? In other words, who else is there to blame? And I said, Take a look in the mirror. And it's like when I said those words, they went over his head. Didn't even hear it. He didn't care. Didn't see it, doesn't care. Didn't care. And then two weeks after that, he said, I'm 99% out. I said, Okay, you want to file for divorce? Yes, I don't want to use attorneys. I said, We are using attorneys. I'm gonna hire an attorney, and I did the next day.

SPEAKER_00 18:10

I found that in my first marriage, I did a lot of defending of my person, my ex-husband. And it was like, oh no, that's not what happened. I was, you know, ours was a little bit different than than kind of what you were dealing with. But um I found did you find that you would ever do that, like make excuses for him?

SPEAKER_01 18:30

I didn't necessarily make as many excuses for him after I'd found out what he had done. Um, but during my entire marriage, I definitely felt like I was protecting those around me from who he truly was. But I feel like I didn't understand that until going through the divorce process and really separating myself from my marriage. And it was like I could kind of be the buffer of who he was versus who I wanted him to be perceived as. And that's I guess kind of a relief being divorced now is that he can just live his life how he wants to, and those that are around him can see him for who he is, and same with me. I can live my life as I would like and not really be attached to him anymore.

SPEAKER_00 19:22

You've described a powerful shift where clarity replaced self-blame. What happened that helped you reach that turning point? Was there a specific like point that you remember where you were like, this is him, this isn't me, and you were able to completely separate that?

SPEAKER_01 19:39

I carried so much shame and embarrassment after finding out about his affair, and then we tried, I'll say tried like quote unquote, because I feel like he was way far out at that point for the next eight months before we filed, and then after we filed for the divorce, I actually still continued to carry a lot of shame and embarrassment. It was for some reason, like we had already talked about, I felt so responsible for everything that was kind of going down. And he had kept telling me that I was responsible for it, that he would have never done what he had done had he been married to someone else. And it really wasn't until about six months into the divorce process that I was able to realize that I am separated from his choices. There's so much freedom in that, even for myself personally, because I'm like, so how am I making my choices in my life? Am I making my choices based off of the people around me, or am I making my choices based off of integrity and and what I know to be right and true? And it gives you a lot of freedom because you are no longer a victim in your own life. And so letting him own his own choices was freeing, and it allowed me to own my own choices. And then I realized that our choices hold so much value. What we consume, what we look at, what we listen to, the two those are choices that we're making every day. And the things that we're consuming, are they things that are going to help us be better and grow to be our best self? Or are they things that are going to hinder our improvement and our progress? And what kind of person do you want to be? Truly, because the things that we are choosing to involve ourselves in are shaping us.

SPEAKER_00 21:29

That's beautiful and very true. Once you began the healing process, what were the first steps you took to rebuild your life?

SPEAKER_01 21:38

I looked back and I thought what part of this, what part of the situation is mine to carry? And I think that that really helped me separate his choices from my own choices. And it was really interesting because I was going to therapy during that trying time. Trying period, that eight-month period, I started going to personal therapy. And I remember going in and talking to my therapist, and I was expressed I was explaining to her a situation that had happened within the past week where my husband had treated me really horribly. I did not realize how horrible it was until I was explaining to her what had happened, and she looked at me like completely shocked. She her jaw hit the floor like he treated you that way. And seeing her reaction really woke me up to the fact that number one, yes, he did treat me that way, and that was actually really horrible. Number two, I can't control how he treats me. Neither can my therapist. She can't change how he treats me. The only thing that will change is me choosing to stay and be treated that way or leave. Those were my only options. But like you said before, the weight that we put into our family is so great. We put so much weight into these promises that we've made, especially when ch uh children are involved and businesses are involved, and you have built a life up to that point with this person. And so knowing that, I wanted to do everything I could to save it. And now, since being divorced, I look back and I think, but to what extent? I was willing to stay with him forever. And the fact that he wanted out was one of the greatest gifts he could have given me, besides my children, because I would have stayed. And that Jamie back then that would have stayed, I don't blame her because she was doing everything she could. She was doing what she thought was best and right at the time. But I will say the Jamie that has progressed and grown and learned now wouldn't stay because I know that I am more valuable than that. And that that mistreatment, if someone is choosing to mistreat you and they're not, they don't care that they are mistreating you and they don't want to improve on themselves, it is best adapt, in my opinion. To walk away because separating yourself from that allows you to heal from the mistreatment, see that there is a healthy way to interact, improve yourself. I feel like there's only so much progress progress that you can make when you're not bracing for impact of being treated poorly by another person. And so I I feel like seeing my therapist's reaction, even though that seeing her reaction didn't actually make me leave, but it did help me wake up and see that I was choosing to stay and I was choosing to be treated that way because I was choosing to stay. And so no matter I didn't really go to therapy after that until after my divorce. Then I started going again. But I was like, why am I coming here to tell her how bad he's treating me? I'm not willing to do anything about it. So I kind of stopped going and I just rode that wave of trying to save my marriage.

SPEAKER_00 24:57

Which is understandable. I think people from the outside look at marriages or situations with women and they're like, why doesn't she just leave? Or I would leave if that happened. Oh, would you now? Because it's not, it's easier said than done. Like it's very difficult. And I understand that moment that you were with your therapist and you saw that reaction. I remember sitting in a group of women, it was like a group thing through our church, and we were all telling our stories of um what had happened to us. And I just remember everyone told their story, and then I've been telling mine, and it was just like everybody was looking at me when I finished, and I was like, well, that's just what's happening. And they're like, oh my gosh, like, but when you're living it, and and I just remember when you said that, it reminded me of that experience. Like, okay, this must be really bad, but I'm in it, I'm always in fight or flight constantly for years. I'm just racing for the next thing, I'm powering through. And even after I was married 17 years before my divorce, it took years to come out of that way of thinking. And now that I have that perspective, I'm like, oh my gosh, that was really bad. It was really hard.

SPEAKER_01 26:08

Especially now that you're in a healthy relationship, you can look back and be like, oh my gosh. And then you realize this state of fight or flight that you were in so consistently because of how you were being treated and everything that you were experiencing.

SPEAKER_00 26:21

Well, and the gaslighting, what you're told to believe. And then also like because I'm all I'm almost bored when there's not like all of these things happening. It's like, why is nothing happening? There's no crisis, there's nobody knocking at the door, and I'm like, ah, who's there? It's like, oh, this is what life's supposed to be like. It's peaceful. It's peaceful. And I mean, life is life. Life gets lifey. Yes. And it's not always peaceful and there's hard things. But if you're in a in a healthy marriage or relationship, you're single now, but I've found that really healthy space. We do it together. And when you yoke yourself with another person, you bind together and you carry it together. It makes that lifting so much easier. Yes. I there is hope. Uh let's see. Another powerful distinction you share is between love and self-abandonment. What does that mean?

SPEAKER_01 27:11

Um, I think that in once I went through the divorce process, I was able to experience what choosing myself looked like. And I felt that in the time in between the time that I found out about the affair and we filed for divorce, that I kept putting my heart on my sleeve and being extremely vulnerable to my husband in hopes that he would return return the vulnerability and the honesty. And that wasn't the case because I I couldn't control his choices. But in doing that, in presenting myself in honesty and vulnerability and him pretty much already being out of the marriage, I was crushed. Every single time I would go to him and put out a bid for connection or put out a bid to make things better or improve things, he would respond in the opposite way, almost like it was an opportunity to beat me down, metaphorically speaking. And once the divorce process started, I knew that I needed to make a choice. I couldn't do things for him anymore. I had to start doing things for me. And something that really helped me realize that I needed to make that choice. I had gone to lunch with a friend and I was expressing to her, you know, I filed for divorce. This is what's going on. And I feel like I really need to separate myself emotionally from him because I have been trying to bind myself even more emotionally. As though you should. Right. And so now we're separating, and I'm like, and I don't know how to do it. I don't know how to do it. I have been throwing myself, everything I had, to this person, and they have been slicing through it with a machete, you know, like it's I don't know how to move forward. And she was like, Maybe you can start saying to yourself, he's not my problem anymore. And that is what I started doing. In my mind, I would start repeating to myself, he's not my problem anymore. Anytime I would feel an emotional connection to try to save the connection or work together or make the best of our new situation for him or to avoid contention, I would say, he's not my problem anymore. It would help me look at the situation objectively and see what is going to be best for me and for my children moving forward. And I would make choices based off of that. And that honestly helped give me the power to do that.

SPEAKER_00 29:41

That's beautiful. Wow. Was it scary to be honest online? So you're very open. I watch your posts, you have this growing community there. What was that like for you to be vulnerable and like put all your trash out there all your life out online? What was that like?

SPEAKER_01 30:03

It's really scary. I don't know if anyone remembers, but like the cold play concert, the affair that happened, you know, on the KISS Cam, they were like, oh, and the CEO is, you know, anyway, the affair got caught, boom, public right there. And I was like, man, you know, I felt horrible for hit the guy's wife because not only was she finding out about it, but the entire world was finding out about it with her. So it was, you know, private, or it wasn't private, it was very public. But um also having gone through a betrayal, I was like, also, there's kind of some beauty in that because they get to see. Yes, the world gets to see. It's not really um, you can't continue hiding in the dark. And I feel like there are so many lies that lead to that kind of life, and it feels like it should be illegal, which obviously that's not the case. And I know that every divorce or betrayal is not the same either, but that's neither here nor there. Um, that is what sparked me feeling like I needed to share my story online, not to publicly shame by any means, but to help women know that there's a space for them to see that when you go through hard times when your entire world that you've created with this person that you were supposed to be able to trust is crashing down, you can move forward. It was almost like seeing that public display helped me see that I could be public about my story to help women realize that there is a better path after the trash.

SPEAKER_00 31:48

Yes, I think that's a really uh powerful way to uh put that. And it's hard sometimes to talk about those things, especially I'm seeing like a lot of the hardships happened for me like well over a decade ago. Yes, but they've shaped me and who I am. And sometimes I feel like I just want to put that story away. I just want to put it to sleep. I don't want to talk about it anymore. It's exhausting. My kids are still affected by the things that have happened. But then I'm like, no, I didn't survive that to have nothing come of it, to help, to not help somebody through it. Why would God give me this hardship and allow me to survive if he didn't want me to help somebody else through it? And I find that in our society, especially our church culture, um, I don't know if this is the way in other churches, but we really like to put our problems kind of tuck them away, put them in our purchase, don't let anyone know about them, don't let anyone know about them. And I'm like, we're completely missing the point. We should all be here telling our stories, telling our hardships, allowing people to pray for us, serve us in a way that can help and inspire and encourage. So I appreciate that you do it. Sometimes I'm watching, I'm like, she's brave. Like this is bold. When I'm seeing your post, they're bold. They're brave, but they're beautiful and they're healing. I'm sure that you have gained healing through the putting it out there. For me, writing it like when you said you were writing some thoughts, or when you see somebody's expression of like, what happened, like that happened to you? It's healing. So I recently finished writing my story, writing the book, but now I'm like, well, when do I put it out there? Because I have to be prepared for that backlash. I'm sure you had backlash. What kind of backlash or negativity have you received from being public and open about your life?

SPEAKER_01 33:47

Um, there's criticism online. Uh, I haven't necessarily heard specifically from my ex how he feels about it. Well, I didn't really start, I didn't start this online sharing to attack anyone. I shared it to promote healing and to help lead others to a path of healing as well. And in doing that, you have to share what you're healing from. And I think that a lot of people not a lot, actually. Honestly, I haven't gotten a ton of criticism. I've gotten a lot of people that have been so grateful for what I've shared. But every once in a while I'll get a few comments of saying, you know, well, what did you do to to let your marriage get to this point? Or well, which is a valid question, but also some people are saying, well, why would you share that online? Like it's private. But I agree with you completely that we are given hardships and trials so that we can relate to one another. And I think that the purpose of this life is to relate and to connect with our, you know, the most important thing in this, on this earth is relationships. And I think that when we can connect, when we can help each other, when we can serve one another, or when we allow others to serve us, that is one of the greatest gifts that we can give ourselves and others. And that's why I started sharing online. It wasn't to hurt anyone's feelings, it was to say, this is what I went through. It felt really crazy at the time. And I felt like there was going to be this never-ending hardship, but it does get better.

SPEAKER_00 35:33

It does.

SPEAKER_01 35:33

And I want to tell you that are in the middle of it or that have experienced it, that there is a path forward.

SPEAKER_00 35:39

So that was my next question is what do you think women most need to hear when they are rebuilding their lives after betrayal or loss? Now, coming from your perspective, you have, I know some of your family members, you have a really great support system in that way, as I did as well. Some people don't have that. Uh, so what would you tell women, whether they have a support system or the ones that don't? What would you tell them? What do they need to hear?

SPEAKER_01 36:05

I think that therapy helps immensely. I think that finding a support system, if you don't have a church that you go to, I would recommend going to a church. Finding someone or a group of people that are can be a part of your community that hear and listen to you. I think that the thought of that can sometimes be exhausting when you're in the thick of it. And I think that in that case, therapy and journaling and prayer are honestly what can help ground you and help you feel that there is light at the end of the tunnel. When I was going through it, I had a gratitude journal and I would write a minimum of three things I was grateful for every single night. And that really was something that I would give me peace and help me feel like I can do the next day.

SPEAKER_00 36:57

I think when we're in our darkest moments, and I'm sure you've had those darkest moments, I'll I'll actually actually ask you that next. But we have to remember the sun's gonna rise again tomorrow, right? We're gonna feel the warmth on our face. There's a new day if we can just get through it. Can you pinpoint your very darkest moment?

SPEAKER_01 37:16

Oh, I feel like I had a few of them that were pretty parallel to each other. Um when I had found about found out about my husband's affair that night, I was up in the night crying for hours. I remember calling my mom and being like, I I don't know what I'm going to do. I don't know what I'm going to do. She actually didn't know at that time that he had had an affair. I didn't tell her till the next day, but I just was like, I felt so paralyzed, like there was no way forward. And actually, the interesting thing about that is that every time I would feel like I was spiraling down and I was sinking my feet into cement that I was just going to be stuck there forever. It was when I was thinking of the what-ifs. It's when I was imagining how horrible the unknown could be. And the funny thing about that is that I can't control any of that. But what I can control and what I do know is that there is a loving God who has a path for each of us, and He wants us to be happy, but for us to reach the happiness, we have to keep going. You have to keep going through the hard, thick mud. And the gratitude journal of realizing what has already happened in my life that is good helped me really realize that there would be more good. And sometimes all I could do was go through the motions. And I guess one of the pluses of like having children was that I couldn't just not do anything for the sake of your children. I had to keep going. And thank goodness for my family, I would call them. Sometimes we would meet up at Costco, and I would just follow them around the store because I felt so paralyzed. I mean, at least I was out doing things and not just stuck at home. But I also remember hugging my sister in the middle of Costco and breaking down and completely sobbing. And I did not care who saw, I did not care who was around. I felt like I was in such a dark place. My amount my life that I wanted it to be, everything that I had hoped my life would become, truly never was that in my marriage. And now there was no hope for that because it was ending. And so everything that I wanted my marriage to become or have the chance of becoming was falling apart. And it just felt like I didn't know what was gonna happen. I mean, now I hope to be able to get remarried and really have a healthy relationship, and I think that that will be a wonderful example for my children. And I think that there is a lot of hope, but to get through it and not know where all of the logistics are going to land with custody and finances and everything, that is that is terrifying. It's scary.

SPEAKER_00 40:15

Yes. I remember in a one of my darkest moments, sitting in a closet and being on my knees, and I would just pray every 30 seconds, I'd watch the clock that I could live for 30 more seconds. And I just remember like thinking that paralyzed stuff, like, how am I gonna get through 30 more seconds? And it's incredible when you've come through that. That you're like, wow, I remember being on an airplane one time and the stewardess asked my sister, is she okay? Her face is disformed. Like the look on my face must have been so horrific that the lady asked if I was okay. And it's like, wow, like I didn't even know that's what I was putting out there, or like what that felt like.

SPEAKER_01 41:00

So the pain that you were experiencing inside was manifesting on my face.

SPEAKER_00 41:05

Yes, it was all twisted. That's that's rough. Who okay? What advice would you give to any woman listening right now that feels like her life is completely falling apart?

SPEAKER_01 41:19

The best advice that I can give is knowing that if Jesus Christ were to die for just you, not even the entire human race, he would have still done it. That's how worthy you are. You are worthy. Yes, that's how special you are. And he wants your happiness and peace, and so keep going.

SPEAKER_00 41:50

That's beautiful. Is there anything else before I l ask my last question that I ask everybody that you would like to share or that you didn't feel like we hit on?

SPEAKER_01 42:04

I think that understanding your worth empowers your choices, and I think that it removes your responsibility from other people's choices. I know that we kind of already touched on that, but that is something that I am continuing to learn after going through the divorce process, and that is honestly why I started my page. I want other women to feel that they are worthy of being treated well, and that the way others treat them is the is a choice. So be with someone who's going to choose to see your value.

SPEAKER_00 42:47

I love that. I think that so many women don't feel worthy. There's days I wake up I probably don't feel that way. And it's so interesting how we we're concerned if our, you know, is your husband does your husband think you're it's does your husband think you're worthy? Do your children think you you're worthy? Well, do you think you're worthy? Because that's what matters. That's what's important. And when you feel that way about yourself, it really put projects.

SPEAKER_01 43:12

Yes. And I think that it gives you clarity to surround yourself by other people who also see your worth. Yes. And see your value. So you rise together. You're like, I, and that's another crazy thing, is like when I was going through my divorce, or when before going through the divorce, I kept showing up. What I realized is that I kept showing up because I knew I was worthy. Like I knew that I held a lot of value. I was the mother of these children. I had helped run many, many businesses. I held our home together. I felt the strength of my power and my role, and feeling that helped me show up. But I did not put that together that I knew my innate worth until after my divorce. I was like, that's why I kept showing up. I didn't keep showing up. Because I was weak, I kept showing up hoping that he would see my worth. And seeing my worth was his choice or not. Right. You can't control that. Right. And so now that I'm apart from it, I can now choose to surround myself with people who choose to see my value.

SPEAKER_00 44:17

That's beautiful. I teach kindergarten, and one principle we always talk about is you can't go over it, you can't go around it, you can't go under it, you just have to go through it. And it's incredible the perspective we gain by going through it. My last question: what do you want your legacy to be?

SPEAKER_01 44:37

I want my legacy to. If I were to leave something behind, I would want my children to know that I was faithful. I was faithful in my faith to Jesus Christ, and I was faithful to them in my promises that I had made. And I would want them to know that there is a lot of value in being obedient to the commandments. I think that there's a lot of strength in that. It doesn't take away hardship, but it gives us divine help and power to make it through. And I would want them to know that I always believed in that.

SPEAKER_00 45:33

That made the hair on my arms like stand up. There's something really powerful about in-person interviews. And I've never actually met you in person. I've I've just seen your stuff online, and I I find it really impactful and powerful. But you are one of the most courageous, strongest, powerful women because you've chosen yourself and you've chosen God. And I just I'm really excited to see kind of where you go with all of this. You just, there's so many possibilities. I can just, I can feel it with you. So thank you so much for joining Lipstick and Legacy. Appreciate it.

SPEAKER_01 46:07

It was really fun. I I really do enjoy sharing my story because I feel like, you know, if I can just even help one person, it's worth it.

SPEAKER_00 46:15

That's how you're serving. Yes. It's how you're serving. Yeah. You're serving all the women in this dark and dreary world.

SPEAKER_01 46:23

So thank you. Thank you for having me.