Jaclyn Mrozek of the Scrappy Piano Teacher

Jaci Mrozek just took the entire month of May off, and she's still getting paid. In this conversation, she walks us through exactly how she built a system to support her "radical sabbatical."

Jaci is a piano teacher, presenter, and host of The Scrappy Piano Teacher Podcast. She's been teaching for 28 years and has spent the last several helping independent music teachers build studios.

We talked about year-round billing, the summer schedule that keeps retention up, how she handles parents who count lessons, the "Policy Triangle" she uses in her cohorts, asynchronous lessons for snow days, and the idea that building a great studio experience is the best business move you can make.

This one's full of practical ideas you can borrow. And Jaci delivers them with the kind of energy that will inspire you to reorganize your studio. 

Topics covered:

- The radical sabbatical: how to take a month off and still get paid

- Year-round flat-rate billing and how to communicate it to families

- Summer scheduling that increases retention (and respects everyone's chaos)

- Setting goals in April for the fall, before the year even ends

- The "Piano Gymnastics" evaluation program students actually love

- Recitals as your biggest marketing moment

- The Policy Triangle: philosophy, time, and money

- Asynchronous lessons and the "what now?" weeks

- Running cohorts that create lasting community

- Why raising your rates attracts better families

Connect with Jaci:

Website: scrappypianoteacher.com

Instagram: @jaclynmrozek_piano

YouTube: @ScrappyPianoTeacher

Facebook: ScrappyPianoTeacher

🌊 Connect with us:

• Join a supportive community for teachers & creatives at the Fons Family Facebook Group
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• Follow on Instagram: @getfons
• Learn more about Fons
• TikTok: @getfons

Transcript

SPEAKER_01 0:09

Hey there, friends. Today's guest is Jacqueline Rosick, but most people call her Jackie. She's a piano teacher, presenter, and host of the Scrappy Piano Teacher Podcast. Jackie helps independent music teachers build more sustainable, profitable studios by helping them understand the why behind the decisions they make and how to build the systems that make those decisions work for them. Through her podcast, workbooks, cohorts, and teacher programs, Jackie is one of the most practical, grounded, and energetic voices in the music education space I know. I've been looking forward to this one. Jackie, welcome to the 440. How are you doing today?

SPEAKER_02 0:46

I am great. Thank you for having me, Eric.

SPEAKER_01 0:49

I'm so glad that you're here. I've been listening to your podcast and really enjoying it, really enjoying the format, really enjoying how much energy you put behind your topics. And I know that right now you're getting ready to embark on taking a radical sabbatical, if you will.

SPEAKER_02 1:05

A radical sabbatical. I love that. I am I want that like on a t-shirt.

SPEAKER_01 1:10

Yeah. Yeah. Tell us about that and the timing of it.

SPEAKER_02 1:14

So um I just decided last year that I don't think I'm ever gonna teach during the month of May ever again. I think I'm done. So, you know, we do our recitals the end of April. And after that, I always have, I love to have a week of lessons where we do a lot of reflecting on recitals and we talk about goals and all of that kind of fun stuff. But after that, May is a rough month around here because we're all busy. It's hard to get students to practice. The parents seem really tired. I have kids of my own and I like to do stuff with them. And I don't know, last year I just decided I thought, you know what? I don't know why I'm doing this. And my husband, I told my husband, I said, you know, I don't think I'm gonna teach in May anymore. And he's like, Can you do that? And I said, Why not? It's my business. I can do that, right? So here we are. I'm on a 12-month schedule with my studio, and I gave myself a little rick bit of a raise last year, but my big raise was adding a couple weeks off, which is May. So yeah, we are. This is the last week of April. We this is our last week of lessons. Next week, uh, I was telling you before we recorded, we're gonna do some piano parties where we just throw water balloons at each other and rhythm games, and then we are done until summer.

SPEAKER_01 2:38

There are a million questions and ideas. One that I just I love everything about this because as you're you as I was listening to you talk about taking this time off, I know myself being a music teacher forever, scheduling time in your business is much easier said than done to take off. Where it's like to actually do it, to give yourself that break. I love this. It's such a good idea. And you mentioned I gave myself a little raise, but the real raise is I gave myself some time off. And so this is the first year you've done this. Is this a new thing you're yeah?

SPEAKER_02 3:10

Yeah. I mean, I've I've taken a little bit more time off through the years. Like I have a fall break now, that was new. I now take a two-week break off at springtime. So the, or I'm sorry, during spring break, so I can do the MTNA conference and that kind of thing. But yeah, May is new for me.

SPEAKER_01 3:31

And May is a natural time for you in your cycle with recitals and end of school year when with your family, you can use that time. I think if you ask a lot of music teachers, you know, which months are your toughest? Often it's around the holidays, often it's July and August, just because there's so much attrition, like there's so many people on vacations, so many people missing lessons. That seems like a natural time to take off too. What do you what do you do during the summer? Do you stick pretty visual?

SPEAKER_02 3:59

So I yeah, yes and no. I give them a choice. So, like I said, I do a 12-month even billing schedule. So I'm still getting paid. Everything is fair to the students as well. And I give them a choice for summer. Either they can do a four-day camp or they can do eight weeks of lessons, but they get to choose their time. So I just throw up all my availability on the calendar and then they go in on their own and they grab the slots themselves. It's kind of a first come, first serve, but I put more than enough on there. So some students will be coming two times a week during the month of June, and they'll knock out all eight of their lessons within four weeks. Some people like to spread it out. So I I give them a lot to choose from, but what ends up happening is my summer becomes a lot lighter, and then they're not struggling to fit my schedule. They're still, I'm respecting their schedule too, right? Because everybody's summer is crazy. And that just keeps the ball rolling. And I've noticed that it keeps my retention up in the summer as well by giving them those options.

SPEAKER_01 5:08

Yeah, you know, I in every episode I try to extract the DNA of what makes a studio click. And I feel like you've already those secrets that we can steal and borrow from. And I feel like I'm I feel like you've already kind of given it all, which is uh which is so helpful, which is this you mentioned the parties that you're having. At the end, you have a res you have the seasonality. You work up to a recital, the recital goes great. It's a marketing moment for you, and your families are really happy. There's a natural break that should that can come after that, but before you have an unwind week. That's a new thing. I haven't really a reflection unwind week. I'm just hearing like lots, I'm hearing lots of value, and I'm hearing lots of you sound with it, but not too laid back and laid back. Like it sounds like you have like a there's maybe like a there's a zen thing where you're like, I'm really enjoying this, and this is now time for me to rest, but it's also a time for my students to regroup and maybe go do something else and enjoy the end of their year. And then, yeah, we'll have summer be a more relaxed, but that'll allow me to be more open in scheduling for what works with you. Uh, and then of course you come back into that seasonality in the fall when things get wild again. But I it just sounds like you've got a system that really works for you and your families where they're having a great time. And so they're not thinking, because I when people, when you were saying this, I was imagining myself being a lot of the piano teachers we love and know at MTNA we run into. And I can hear what they would say under the well, that would never work for me. Yeah, because I I can't do the flat the round-the-year billing because what if I miss a lesson and they're counting and I promised them 42 lessons and now they're only getting 41. And you know, you there's a lot of self-doubt, self-doubt in the piano teacher community. And I know you work a lot too to support them through that, through through your podcast and your cohorts and things like that. But do you hear a lot about that?

SPEAKER_02 7:03

What I'm oh yeah, oh yeah, lots of doubt. And you know, I don't blame them. I mean, I still have it too. I actually was telling my husband just the other day, I said, I don't feel like this is real. Like I'm waiting for that one person to be really upset about May, but nobody's upset yet. And I feel like it's been communicated pretty well. But I I think we all have experiences through our journeys where we have gotten that pushback from parents. I had a mom and she used to meticulously go through my schedule. I remember she was Thursdays, her lessons were on Thursdays, and I remember her asking me how I plan to accommodate my Monday students on Monday holidays. And I'm thinking to myself, what do you care? You know, but we I think we all have these parents that like to maybe, you know, check on us. And um, it is a lot of money to have lessons, you know, so it is an investment and I can give them some grace in that. But I think that that kind of causes us teachers to really hesitate to maybe I don't want to, I don't know if I want to say stick up for ourselves, but to really hold hard on we have life too. If I'm burned out, and and you were talking about like busy seasons, right? For a lot of people, I took a poll once and the bus the most burnout that teachers seem to experience tends to happen in March, April, and May. And I know for me it's in May, like I'm I'm getting at my point, like I'm done. And um I think that if we are taking care of ourselves and we're holding tight to that, you know, like, no, I have to get paid, I have to pay my bills, I have to have this time. I'm gonna be able to serve your children, my students, so much better in the long run, right? By doing that. So I and I'm getting a little bit off topic, but I do think that a lot of teachers feel like they would never be able to do it. But the thing of it is, is you don't know until you try. And you really can. I think that teachers struggle the most with how, like, how do I get started? And that's what we talk about a lot in my cohorts and the masterminds and stuff, is like taking these initial steps because you can do it. It's your business, right? Like we do this because we love it, but this is also a business, and you get to be in charge.

SPEAKER_01 9:34

I wonder if you know, because I I do love how every studio you talk to has its own unique things about it and its own, you know, things that work for the teacher and their community and where they are and who they serve. But I wonder if we're talking about the business side of it and sticking up for it. I I wonder if it's the legwork is making it so joyful and energetic and really fun and doing the great work in the studio to where the parents leave that recital, the last thing they're thinking about is nitpicking over getting certain lessons or why they're not paying, they're not getting all their lessons in May. And that way, and I had never thought about this until just now talking to you, but it seems like the people that are really in flow and just like, oh my gosh, I'm so here for your kid, and we're having so much fun. And look how successful your kid is. I can't believe they did it. Your pictures turned out great. I'll see you in June. And the parents just like, whoa, this is great. I I think there's as opposed to saying having to say in the first of May, being like, Well, they I didn't know if they were going to keep going. And now we have this break, and uh, you know, we should probably talk about that because I don't know if they should take time off because they're not doing, you know, I think that a lot of what you do up front is actually maybe even above the business. It's actually what you're doing in the business in the day-to-day as a human.

SPEAKER_02 10:54

Oh, yeah. I mean, you know, this is funny because I was I was thinking about this before we logged on because just this week. So it's Thursday that we're recording this. This is my last real day of teaching for the whole year. Oh my gosh. Sorry, I just now realized that. So yay, I only have a few more lessons today. But as we were going through lessons, we have this evaluation in the fall. It's a technical skills evaluation, which has shocked me that this is my student's favorite evaluation. And we're talking just like scales and peniscales and chords. And these kids love this evaluation of all things. It's very local to me where I live. But we are talking about what they are going to be doing next fall. So we're actually already putting into place, like, okay, what events do you want to do? You want to do this? Let's go for the senior ribbon, let's go for this. So they're already planning and we're very intentional on planning for the next year so that they know, hey, this is coming, we have plans. And I find that that helps with retention because it's not saying, oh, the recital's done, we're done, we're taking off in the month of May. I hope to see you guys in June. I mean, we're making it very intentional where we already have goals for next year and we're not even done with the school year yet. So usually that keeps them to stick around to.

SPEAKER_01 12:18

Uh, that is awesome. And you meant you said the evaluations are to your area. Are you talking, is that within your local MTNA or is that within your studio or something that people are doing in Cincinnati?

SPEAKER_02 12:30

Yeah, it's actually um, it's not the MTNA, it's a very small teacher group. Just there's probably 10 teachers in our area, but they've been doing this for about 20, 30 years. So we just I know it's really, really cool. It's just a technical skills evaluation. It's called piano gymnastics. So the students do these different events, and once they finally get to the senior levels, they get a plaque. That seems to be the draw right there, is they get a plaque. Because how many things do we get to do these days where you get a fancy plaque with your name on it? But it takes them years to get to it. And um, boy, when I hand those plaques to my high schoolers at recitals and they see that, these kids are just they're into it. And it's optional. The I all my events in the studio are optional except for my spring recital. And I have to tell you, almost everyone does this technical skills evaluation. It's crazy.

SPEAKER_01 13:29

Wait, so yeah, so you do events aside from recitals, and this is a this is a the this group of teachers and the program, did you make the program up, or is it with the 10 of you, or is it something that exists uh in its uh its own?

SPEAKER_02 13:43

That existed, I think they started back in the 80s. This small group has been around forever. And actually, Elizabeth Swift is the one who brought me into this group. And um, because there was an evaluation that was local to us that was ending about 10 or so years ago, and I was like, man, I don't know what to do, you know, with my students. And she's like, Oh, come and join this group. So there's, I mean, it's really small, but we just could keep it going. And um, yeah, so it works really nice. And I think there's a lot of power to that because, you know, a lot of teachers that maybe aren't close to their associations or feel like they're far away from a community. Like, if you can find even just a couple of teachers close to you that want to do a few things, like you guys can just throw your own stuff. We really have a lot more freedom than we give ourselves for sure.

SPEAKER_01 14:31

And do you do adjust do you adjudicate together? Is that how you bring your teachers?

SPEAKER_02 14:35

Yeah, we do for this event. This is our main um money-making event. It's really cheap. Well, I think we do, I want to say it's four dollars per event. So let's say that you are gonna do the junior level penis scales and major and minor chords. So it's like eight bucks. You go in, you get two ribbons, you get a ribbon for each of them. And then, you know, the following year, maybe you do some other events. And so they build up until the senior levels, which is like the whole shebang. And once they get all the senior levels, that's when they get their plaque.

SPEAKER_01 15:06

And this is all technical work. But the students, you found a way to make students look forward to doing technical work because they could get a plaque someday if they work really hard.

SPEAKER_02 15:18

Yeah. I mean, I would love to take credit for it, but I can't. But they do. I love yeah, when I joined, I had to be honest with you, I was like, what is this? And I remember going and being all like, you know, because a lot of my students do the Royal Conservatory of Music, and I was like, Well, what is the tempo? You know, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah. And um, and it it was I it was almost too laid back for me. I thought, oh, come on, like, how serious can we be? And it's amazing. I mean, my students just they love it. And we all know that the more you know the technical skills, the better you'll be able to play all your pieces and just all the things music. So yeah, no, my students have, I mean, the benefits have been amazing. So it's great.

SPEAKER_01 16:03

And before you leave for because I think people are gonna be listening to this, and I hope a lot of it is just really unlocking things to be creative in your own space and how you do things. But the theme is before you take this break, you do some, you practice some real intentionality about what's coming next. You've got other events that aren't just performance opportunities, but things to work towards that are long term, that's putting that in their mind as part of their journey. And I think what you're to get nerdy about, I think in the customer mindset, they're how they're viewing it, they're seeing it much more holistically and as a long-term process. And maybe, you know, because I know that I see rest and breaks as part of growth. You know, walking away and not practicing really hard for a couple weeks is really healthy to help to make sure that you know you're gonna remain doing what you want to do and continuing to practice and staying in music. So I I really love that. And you uh you said you did a you a survey and found that most teachers were burned out this time of year. And I I would definitely agree with that. Were you recommending to I think I picked this up to prepare to know that that's coming and just say, hey, emotionally, I know that around April I'm probably gonna start feeling this. So I'm gonna put this plan in place for April and May to buoy my spirits through that time. Did I pick up that right?

SPEAKER_02 17:32

I kind of oh yeah, no, I'm I'm huge on that. I think it's because I'm I'm just tired of being tired. And you know, I've raised teenagers, I have two lovely young adults, but we went through the whole growing up phases and you know, having to balance family and different seasons of your life while running a studio, I think it's really important to recognize when things get really heavy for you. I mean, not and not just even the months, like even the days of the week. There's something for me with Wednesdays. I don't know what it is about Wednesdays, but I am like pooped. I am so exhausted when it comes to Wednesdays. And so I purposely, when I am scheduling the following year, Wednesdays are my lightest days. Tuesdays and Thursdays I can rock and roll. Um, so it's looking at the big picture. Like, okay, when did I struggle the most? And am I why did I struggle the most? Was something going on at home? Um, or is this something that's continuously happening? Or does it just happen to happen after a big event like a recital? Because recitals are a lot of work. We're pretty tired afterwards, right? So, you know, taking a look at that and really planning out your calendar year around that, I think is really important. And like I said before, you know, giving yourself these breaks that is a raise in itself. And um, I think that we, you know, if you're working for a company, a big bonus can be getting a good vacation package, right? Like we can give ourselves vacation packages too. So I love to work all that in.

SPEAKER_01 19:11

And when you did announce this and you were worried that maybe a teacher or a parent would push back, did anybody care?

SPEAKER_02 19:20

No. No, they didn't. Now I did, um, now I didn't have to do this, but I am I did put together like an asynchronous type package. Actually, uh, we did a summer camp uh type thing, and Jennifer Fox was talking about it, and I was like, oh, that's a really good idea. So I am putting together for the students, they've got some boom cards. I don't know if you're familiar with boom cards. They've got some like just some assigned. I've got their technical skills for the following year that they can get a head start on. And then I have some studio license of collections of music that's a little bit easier for them that they can probably learn on their own. So I am giving them some stuff that they can go through if they want to, or if mom really wants them to go through some stuff, um, but they don't have to because the moment that I make it a requirement is the moment that I get really resentful that they don't do it. And the whole purpose of this break is for if they need a break, then they get it too. Like enjoy your May. Enjoy the last few weeks of school. You will never be this age again. You will never be a kid again. So just enjoy these times. And if you want to practice and you want to do this, great. And if not, then we will pick it back up when you come back in the summer.

SPEAKER_01 20:35

And yeah, when uh so June, is it will this be your same schedule? I I know people are thinking every everyone's asking. I can imagine the questions people are asking. So when you just do you just start right back up in June, or are you then in that summer calendar where people are booking lessons with you?

SPEAKER_02 20:50

We're in the summer calendar. So some students are only, yeah, some are only coming to a camp. And so they will get a little bit bigger of a packet so that they can like work over the summer if they want to. Do I expect them to? I mean, I would say it's like 50-50 that they will. Um, but I give I'm gonna give them a little bit more. But the students who are gonna come for their eight lessons, we're just gonna continue lessons. I kind of thought about that today. I was thinking, like, should I maybe we'll do we'll work on a special summer project, or maybe we'll do this. And you know, I don't know. Maybe when they come in lessons, we'll just pick one big fun piece to work on, or maybe we'll do normal stuff.

SPEAKER_01 21:28

But as for now, so that like the person that you had Tuesday at three will not come Tuesday at three, the first week of June, unless they schedule it. It's not just assume they'll show up again.

SPEAKER_02 21:38

Yeah, yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_01 21:40

That schedule starts again in September.

SPEAKER_02 21:42

Yes. Yes. So okay, yeah, I'll do a new registration.

SPEAKER_01 21:47

Oh, okay.

SPEAKER_02 21:49

Yeah. So they'll they'll we will have a new schedule, but it will be set for the whole year.

SPEAKER_01 21:54

Yeah, I'm really trying to work backwards because whenever I meet somebody that does it, because I'm such a big fan of the year round flat rate. Tuition type thing and making it work. And there's so many ways that people do it. And what I love about your way is it seems to just breed a lot of trust and a lot of comfort from your families. No one's pushing back on it. I know that a lot of people, when they hear about it right about now, they think they just almost announce it. All my families are just going to stop paying me for May, June, and July and August and then come back in September. It's be I think it's because you begin this registration process in September where you're very clear about what this means. Is that, am I right about that? Your year starts in September.

SPEAKER_02 22:35

Yes. Yeah, I think so. I mean, and they can. I parents still look at it as a nine-month thing, even if it is a 12-month thing. I think in their minds, they're still thinking, like, well, what am I really gonna do for summer where we're like, we need to get paid, like we need to pay our bills. So I do tell them up front, if you take off for the summer, you take off, but I'm not gonna hold your spot. I do have a wait list in that and and they they get it because it happens, you know, fall will come, and then people who did leave for the summer want to come back. And I'm like, sorry, like I don't have a spot, which is hard because I've actually turned away students that I've had for years, you know. So so I do make it very clear that if they leave and they take that summer off, there's a very good chance they're not getting that spot back. Um and I think that they understand that. I think that they hear that, they get it. So I don't really have a problem anymore with that.

SPEAKER_01 23:34

Great. I'm sorry to dig in so far, but it's really interesting. What I was hearing you say, and that I think can really benefit everybody, is setting the expectation from the beginning and announcing that, communicating it throughout the year to when you get to the summer, the parents know what it's supposed to be. And if they opt to not follow the agreement, they stand to lose their spot, right? And that's that's totally fair. I love this year-round model. I love that Jackie gets to eat in the summer. I think that's so great.

SPEAKER_02 24:10

I love that too. I think too, it's like getting them to understand that this isn't a hobby, this is our livelihoods, you know, and really attracting families that are good with that. I think that some people are really afraid to raise their rates because they're gonna scare people off in the future. And I find it to be just the opposite. You tend to attract the families that do respect you as a business owner and understand that you love music, but this is not a hobby of yours. You are not like this glorified babysitter, you know, like you are running a business, you are really trying to nurture their musical growth and their education and carry the legacy on of music in this crazy world where, you know, who knows what's gonna happen, but we know that we'll always have music, right? And so we want to really be there for our students. And so I think that when you take your studio very seriously as a business and you treat it that way first, and you charge accordingly, you're going to track those kind of families, and then you're really gonna have less problems in the future.

SPEAKER_01 25:25

How much would you say? Because you you I I keep you keep going back to this community that you have there, these 10 teachers. And I really I love that. And I also know that you hang out with Elizabeth Swift, who I'm a huge fan of, and uh you remember and it's you've got this dream team community. How helpful is that? I just think I don't I don't have that as a guitar teacher here in Seattle. That's it, it just sounds so cool.

SPEAKER_02 25:48

It is, I have to say, it's it's really amazing. And I didn't know how fortunate we were until I started going to conferences and really connecting with teachers over Instagram and all the online space and doing masterminds and all these teachers who are like, I am so alone. And I love the fact that we have podcasts, like what you're doing, it's just huge, you know. Like you're connecting teachers, Fons is connecting teachers, you know. Um, I have to give you a shout-out, by the way. I just recently joined your Fonz Facebook group, and it is the most beautiful, supportive group of teachers. Like, I love the conversations that go on in there, and I so I just wanted to give you a quick shout out because not all the groups are like that. So it's really a lovely group. So, you know, having this community, I had no idea that where I'm located, we are so fortunate to have so many teachers because you would think we'd be really competitive because it's pretty congested. I mean, we have a lot of teachers where we're at, but uh, it's really just not that way. Um, we're all very supportive of each other. And sometimes I wonder if that's why we have such a successful musical community. I don't know, but you know, that that's a really real thing. So I'm curious, I'm gonna ask you a question if that's okay since we're talking about this. In Seattle, not many guitar teachers. Is that why you have dove in? You have, what's the word I'm looking for? You have just really submerged yourself with online and connecting with other people to find that community?

SPEAKER_01 27:26

Um, that's a great question. I think, well, I'm I'm really involved with MTNA in Seattle. So that, but those are all piano teachers, so it's much more community than it is based pedagogy. And so I and guitar is really disparate because I am a classical guitar teacher, but there's I'm also I play modern and different style most styles of guitar, and they're all really different. Like your average guitar teacher might not use a method, they might use a Howl Leonard or a you know an Alfred method book with their students. Uh, there's not the same kind of backbone and journey that piano students have in general. I mean, there is, but it's just not used the same. The guitar community is really different. So I saw it a lot of community from MTNA. Um, and yes, I love teaching online, but I've just found the guitar journey as being a guitar teacher. The community's not, it's not the same way. There's not like a organization of guitar teachers that get together. I just actually I joined the board, I'm really excited about this. I just joined the board of directors for the Guitar Foundation of America, which has been, which is the big classical guitar organization. And a lot of their focus, their intent is really research-based. And there's like really high-level research. There's really great historical research, technical research being done. Less of, hey, let's bro out and talk about how to get through this summer and how to you know build our studios and things like that, at least from what I've seen so far. Just it's just a real different thing. So I think that's what's that's what's attracted me to this community of being online. And it happened naturally too through building fonts. And thanks for that shout-out, too.

SPEAKER_02 29:07

No, but I love that. I love that like you you are craving that community because even though you're teaching guitar and I'm teaching piano, we are still running our music studios. And so it's the same idea, you know. Exactly.

SPEAKER_01 29:20

And I and my guitar studio runs a lot like your piano studio. You know, I do big summer recitals called the guitar becue, and I love doing summer camps and things like that. So I've developed my thing to do.

SPEAKER_02 29:31

Hold on, guitar, guitar becue.

SPEAKER_01 29:33

Oh, yeah. Yeah. So the guitar. That's my big summer recital, which is, you know, my when I first started teaching, no one came to my recitals. I had, you know, just a handful of kids to play. They were all scared. And I was like, man, I can I'm from the south. I can cook really well. I'll just make a bunch of you know, barbecue and see if anybody shows up and do it outside. And like 180 people showed up the first year that I did. And so yeah, of course. Always. Uh yeah. And then uh, you know, I um I found that that was like I your most recent podcast episode. I was really appreciating that about how recitals is marketing. That was my only marketing budget. And I wish I would have heard what you were talking about in that episode. Uh, it was a different time uh when that started. That idea, this is the time to get your Google reviews. This is the time to really not just have people share their social media, but do it mindfully because it is the most impactful marketing moment I think that we have in the year. Would you agree?

unknown 30:30

Yes.

SPEAKER_02 30:30

Oh, yeah, it's like our big game, you know, like this is the thing that we I mean, I guess it's like a thing in my house where they're like, stay out of mom's way, it's recital week. So I don't know if I'm like grumpy or something, but I think it's like we are, it's our big thing, you know. We're not just so proud of these students, we're saying goodbye to some of our students. Like I had a senior that left, and I do pretty good at my recitals of keeping it together when I talk about my recitals, but I really struggle. Like even now, I'm like, oh my gosh, my senior. But like we're saying goodbye to students, you know, like we're celebrating them. But then also us, like, I think as time goes by, like we forget all the hard work that we've done. And when I was putting, this is the first year I got to do slides. I've never been in an event venue where they let me do a slideshow, and I've always been so bitterly jealous of all these beautiful slideshows on social media, and I finally got to have one. And so when I was putting it together, I was going through the entire school year and I'm like, holy cow, we've done so much. Like, we have done so much work, but you forget because you're always in the moment. And so having these recitals to remind them, like, look at how far you've come. Like, look at what you were doing in August and September, and look at what you complain now. I mean, it's just such a celebration, and I think it's the perfect time to remind them and the parents, like, this is what you guys do, this is why you're doing what you're doing. This is why we're gonna keep going, and this is why you're coming back in the fall.

SPEAKER_01 32:04

So I love this is the second time that you've mentioned reflection, you know, your week of reflection after the recital. And we're really seeing this pattern where you're not just having students look ahead and be like, this is what you can look forward to. You're also creating emotional energy by looking back and allowing them to really take inventory of all the value and goodness they've gotten from working together over the year, which is also that's charging that battery. And whether you're just doing it naturally or really intentionally, you're really charging the customer's battery just constantly, right? And maybe that's just your vibe, that's who you are. But these are things that are recreatable. It's to be like, yeah, that the slideshow actually really does uh has a serves a purpose that I think would also impact retention, probably just as much as looking to what you're gonna be doing in the fall. It's it's just creating this overall experience. And I wanted to jump and make sure we had time to talk about these cohorts you work with, because you not just teach students, you and run the podcast, but you you take this information and you you work with other teachers. So tell me about that a little bit and what that looks like.

SPEAKER_02 33:19

Yeah, so oh my gosh, I love our cohorts. I keep them small because I really want to create community. I want teachers to be able to have people that they can connect with forever, right? Like even after we're done, if you need somebody to reach out with, reach out to, I want you to be able to reach out to people that not just you, the people that you you've been through this with.

SPEAKER_01 33:42

Got it.

SPEAKER_02 33:42

Yeah. Which I love connecting with them, don't get me wrong, but I mean I might not always be able to answer too, right?

SPEAKER_01 33:49

So yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_02 33:53

Okay, cool. And so, but what we do is we dig really, really deep. I mean, we I call it the policy triangle where you know, a lot of thank you, I was very proud of that title. But it's kind of like we write these policies, right? Which I have to give a shout out to your book because I went through your book and it is just like, ugh, it's just so good. It's so full of this stuff. But I think when I do the cohorts, I we kind of work backwards. We go through their philosophy very in-depth. Like, what is your current philosophy? And does that actually reflect reality? And it usually doesn't. A lot of times those philosophies were written in college or when they first started, and here they are like 15 years later. Their lives are just a little different from then. So we really go through the philosophy with a time, a fine tooth comb, and then we go through time, we do a really in-depth time audit to really track what is going on. Like, when are you getting really burnt out through the day? You know, um I something I find with teachers is they do not take breaks like ever. I mean, they just teach straight through and they're exhausted. You know, so even so we do a time audit through the whole week. And then we do um, hold on, I'm trying to think. We do the philosophy, we do the time audit. Oh, and then we do a financial, I have this 36-page financial workbook that they have to do. It's very in-depth.

SPEAKER_01 35:27

And you get into the numbers.

SPEAKER_02 35:29

Oh, we get into the numbers. And I have to tell you, this is a really hard thing for me. Yeah, because I am not a naturally numbers gal. So I took a lot of time to go through this. Um, and I just kind of make the assumption that the teachers I work with usually aren't either. I think that most of us we just love music. The business end is like, oh gosh. So we really get deep into the numbers, and then we look at the policy. So we make the policy fit within this triangle of your realistic time, your realistic philosophy, how you want to be a teacher, how you want to teach, and then also how you want to pay your bills and feel like you are getting what you've been putting in. You want it to be sustainable.

SPEAKER_01 36:16

Yeah, I really appreciate how it's you're making it also approachable. Because I know when you talk about these topics, especially with music teachers, they have all this training, make all this impact, it just elicits so much shame, maybe fear. Like once you start talking about that, then it's just it's really tough to navigate that and have them not really pull away. And so to be able to bring them in and have them be comfortable and related, relatable, and I think is a is a really powerful skill that you have. There was there was something else that I that I wanted to ask you when you were talking about the philosophy, and I was listening to another one of your podcast episodes recently, where you were talking about the areas of genius, and you were especially lit up about this series. And I I always I really pick up on wow, she's like, that's even more Jackie energy than Jackie normally has. It's big, it's big energy. How much of the work that you do with teachers and in your own journey? And I think everybody's listening today, is I would think one of your big themes is real self-awareness. Yeah, I get tired on Wednesdays, I teach all day long, and I get really after four hours, I need a break, or knowing that I'm feeling burned out. There's been times in my career where I don't even know that I'm burned out, right?

SPEAKER_00 37:36

Yeah, I don't know that it's coming.

SPEAKER_01 37:38

I'm just not being self-aware. And I and I feel like as I've been doing it longer, that's something I'm starting to work on. But this seems like a big part of your ethos is that you're teaching your cohorts how to be more self-aware of what actually matters to them. Is that where the philosophy piece comes from?

SPEAKER_02 37:54

I think so. Yeah, I think going first, so I'm in my 28th year of teaching. I'm wrapping it up. I started really young. And um, you know, it's kind of like learn as I go type thing. And I always put myself and my family at the very last, at the very bottom. And I think maybe, I don't know if it's maybe like having kids who have graduated and now like we have these great conversations, like these reflective conversations of growing up. And I look back and I'm like, man, you know what? Like, I could have done this, like I missed all this because I refused to budge on this, you know, like so it's more looking at it like, if I'm gonna run my own business and do what I love, then I want to live a life that I love too. And I I wonder, as you're talking about this, I don't really know where it comes from. I I almost think it it's it's more of that, like where I'm thinking, like, I just wasn't happy doing it and I was burned out all the time, but I didn't think I had a choice. Like, I do have a choice. I have a choice to take off May, right? I have a choice to raise my rates, I have a choice to bill for 12 months, or maybe not. Maybe you only, you know, a teacher listening only has 10 students and they love taking the summer off and they could care less. Well, that's beautiful, that's great. They get to do that because it's their business. So that's what I really like to talk to teachers about is you know, like what and then like my last cohort, I had two girls who, you know, they're not they're recent newlyweds. So they're like kind of thinking ahead, like, okay, what's gonna happen when I want to start a family, but I still want to be a teacher, and like how do I work that out? So it's like so we actually get some planning in there too, you know, of how to balance this and do it. And I I have to say kudos to them for doing it so young, like joining cohorts like this, so young and so fresh out of school, which the cohorts aren't just for that, obviously. Um, it's a mix, it seems to be teachers who've been teaching a really long time and they're like something's gotta change, or it's like brand new teachers. I that's what I seem to get. But I I have to say, I I think that's amazing because think of where they're gonna be at when they've been teaching as long as we have. We're gonna be listening to their podcasts, probably.

SPEAKER_01 40:13

And if you're giving them that chance to pick up the wisdom that we've picked up after 25 years of doing this, allowing them to make the option to say, you can do this now. And yeah, that's gonna make a profound difference in their life. You know, this is something we we see. I feel like one in 10 people that come into our community or come into the Fonso verse and they're just out of school, and they just do all the things. They'll listen to a podcast like this, and they'll be like, okay, I'll just do it. And then they do it. And then a year later they'll write in and be like, oh my gosh, it all worked. And uh, I'm buying a house. Whoever would have thought that would have happened. And it's so gratifying. And I don't know if I could have done that right out of school. I needed to stumble around for a while and figure out my own thing, I guess. And but I really appreciate the people that are like what you're doing, which it's not sounding scary, but it sounds really accessible, but it is still really based on fundamentals that not just respect the tradition of being a piano teacher and loving it, right? Because it's really easy to get into. I'm a business coach, and you need to like start using big words like EBITDA, LTV, and CAC. Okay, great. Now we're using big words. Like, here we go. And and it's intimidating. And I think it's really great to say, no, you the thing you just said about it's your choice. Make this the life that you want and know yourself. That's just that's a that's a great message, I feel like, as a guide. So, how often do your cohorts run when do you do those?

SPEAKER_02 41:40

You know what? That's a great question. I am I have been tossing around probably in the fall, close to the beginning of the school year. I think I might be running another one. I'm gonna be doing some workshops in the summer. I get questions about asynchronous lessons constantly. So I'm gonna do some workshops on that, and then I'm gonna do a policy workshop, which will be like more of the policy triangle, but the cohort itself, which is a six-week program where we meet once a week for six weeks. There is homework. Um, and then we have a group Voxer, like the walkie-talkie app. Uh, we do that as well. So I don't know. I'm thinking maybe mid-August to early September when lessons are starting up. That seems when people have a little bit more pep in their step, they're kind of ready to go. I don't know. So to be determined right now.

SPEAKER_01 42:32

Yeah, and it also I think people think a lot about their policies and making changes. It seems like in those June-July months, as they're like, I've had I'm sitting on the beach, I'm not doing that again. Or over the holidays is another good time. I feel like to be like, I love getting some personal development over the holidays. What are what tell me about your async classes or your async teaching?

SPEAKER_02 42:52

Oh, the asynchronous. Um, so these, so I don't do makeup lessons, but I build them in to the tuition, and that's a whole I feel like your book covers that too.

SPEAKER_01 43:03

I think we're I I think we're really on the same page here after this. I was like, this is gonna be the easiest interview. I pretty much were vibing. So uh yeah, but I wanted to make sure I brought that up, which is yeah, we don't, yeah, no makeup lessons are necessary, but you offer.

SPEAKER_02 43:17

We don't do that. Well, I feel like there's always those what if weeks, right? Like, or what now. That's what I should say. The what now weeks. So, example, and this probably happens where you're at. So here in Ohio, you know, I can teach Monday, Tuesday. It's beautiful, almost spring-like weather, and then Wednesday, boom, we get like a blizzard, right? And you got to cancel lessons. And then suddenly I have flex weeks built in for me. I, you know, but it's still like, well, should I just okay? I guess we don't have to have lessons, we can do makeups, but anyway, but sometimes people aren't necessarily comfortable with just doing no makeups or whatever. So that's why I call it the what now. Like, what do I do now? Like, does this fall under any of these categories? So an asynchronous lesson pretty much is just any lesson that's not live. So it can look like me sending a checklist out to a student with maybe a few YouTube videos that would go along with what they're learning. It could be a recording of me sending it out to an entire age group that's all about improvising or composing or just something fun for that week. You know, maybe it's a composer. So those are async lessons, async lessons. I have built a whole library, so it makes it really easy for me. We had a really rough, I don't know about you guys, we had a really rough winter this past year. And we had to take a lot of weird days off. So my async, uh my asynchronous lessons really came into handy. And I think that's why I got so many questions on them because people were like, I don't want to do all these makeup lessons. What do I do? I've got like weeks left over. Do I refund them? And teachers, no, you know, like so. But at the same time, you know, you don't want to be, you want to enjoy your snow day too. You don't want to be, oh, that's another thing I should throw in. I don't like doing online lessons. I know that you do online lessons and there's a lot of teachers who do. I just, I just struggle with it, but it's probably because I don't do it normally.

SPEAKER_00 45:14

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 45:14

So we always have these tech issues, and I don't know. I just prefer to, you know, sit on my couch on snow days. That's just me. I don't work.

SPEAKER_01 45:24

Well, that's awesome. And well, and I love the concept of a what if lesson because they do come up. And if you don't plan for it, they're gonna, it's it's gonna leave you in a lurch. And to be able to have some way to what you're now doing, doing is you're not just knowing yourself, you're also knowing your customers. There's these moments of friction where I'm your student and you know, maybe we missed two weeks in a row, and I've never thought it before, but all of a sudden this thing creeps in my mind where it's like, you know, we're paying Jackie for this, and we're gonna be gone all the month of July. It's like these I, these little, these germs come into our the brain of a customer, and you can feel it. And it's like a little bit like an edginess when next time you talk to them or something and you you're smoothing it out. And if you've been teaching long enough, you know what I'm talking about.

SPEAKER_02 46:12

It's like when a teacher's like that little vibe that you get.

SPEAKER_01 46:14

It's the vibe where you're like, I know you're feeling something, you're feeling, but you are preempting that emotion with being like, Hey, it's Jackie, and here's your thing to do this week. And and instead, they're thinking, gosh, she is really on it. You know, she's really got a plan, even for a day that we just got 11 inches of snow. Uh, I I I really like that a lot. And, you know, as we start to to wrap this conversation up and hopefully we can have more and do this again, uh, I wanted to make sure to ask people here to check out your podcast. I've really been enjoying it, just listening to it, but also it's just a great shot of energy. Like you really, it's just a good vibe. And so I I really appreciate that. And so, what is the best way for people to maybe connect with you, learn more about what you're doing? Is it is the podcast your preferred method or is it through your website?

SPEAKER_02 47:05

Uh yeah, the podcast, I mean, I'm pretty much scrappy piano teacher everywhere. So, except for TikTok, that seems to be the one thing that I'm not doing, and that's okay with me. So, but on Instagram, you can always DM me. I'm at that one's actually Jaclyn Morozic Piano, but if you type in Scrappy Piano Teacher, you'll find it. Same with Facebook. You can email me at Jaclyn, J A C L I N at scrappypiano teacher.com. Or yeah, the podcast. So we're just the scrappy ones over here.

SPEAKER_01 47:35

Yeah, I've really been enjoying it and it was great to listen to it because I already knew you and we had chatted, but it was great to just kind of hear where your interests are and your thoughts are. It's it's a it's a great podcast. Before we jump off, where did the scrappy piano teacher come from? Where did you get that name?

SPEAKER_02 47:50

It's great, but oh well, it used to be the music teacher mastermind. That's how I started because I would do masterminds and I'd be like, oh, these are such great conversations. We should record these. But it turned into where I felt like I was having to use big words, like you were talking about earlier, like all that, like that professional kind of which, yeah, we're professional, but that's just not me. And I always tease my husband because he does autocross racing with a really old Corvette. Yeah, we're going this weekend. It's like we are total opposites, let me tell you, because all I can tell you about his car is it's black and it's old and it's a Corvette. I know nothing. But he he does this racing with these guys who spent all this money. And here's my husband in the garage, like spray painting car parts and putting them back together. And so we always, and I was a single mom for about seven years before he and I got married. And so we always just have referred to each other as being scrappy people, like we just kind of like throw, we do what we gotta do to make it work. And so I think it just came because I was thinking, like, how would I describe my approach and how I want people to understand it's a comfortable place? And I feel like the scrappy just makes it comfortable for people.

SPEAKER_01 49:07

Yeah, you're making it happen. There's some grit there along the way that was picked up.

SPEAKER_00 49:12

Yeah, yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_01 49:13

And a little and a little bit of just can-doidness.

SPEAKER_00 49:16

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 49:16

I'm gonna figure it out.

unknown 49:18

I like that.

SPEAKER_01 49:19

Well, Jackie, thank you so much. This was an amazing conversation. Uh, we should do it again. And um, I really appreciate you just sharing so much of your inner workings and how you see the world and the energies great. So thank you so much for being here today. Uh, can't wait to chat again.

SPEAKER_02 49:36

Okay, thank you, Eric.

SPEAKER_01 49:37

Thanks. You've been listening to the 440 podcast. If you found this helpful, subscribe at Spotify, Apple, or wherever you listen to podcasts. And leave a quick rating. It makes a big difference. To learn more about how to run your teaching studio with less stress and more joy, visit fonts.com. I'm Eric Brenner, and thanks for being here.