Roberto Hermosillo on Building a Modern Music Career

What does a contemporary, thriving music career actually look like?

Roberto Hermosillo has built it. He's a GRAMMY-nominated guitarist, studio musician, songwriter, TV actor, and the owner of Roberto's Music Studio, a boutique lessons agency in Santa Monica. In this conversation, Roberto and Eric talk honestly about the multi-hyphenate life: balancing artistry with entrepreneurship, ditching the old music school playbook, and building something that makes you genuinely happy.

In This Episode

• How Roberto went from independent teacher to running a multi-teacher lessons agency... nine iterations in
• The intentional geographic move to Santa Monica and why location strategy matters for music educators
• What he learned writing curriculum for a major guitar brand and why he calls it "a free degree in music education"
• The GRAMMY-nominated Solid Rock Revival project with Alice Cooper, Slash, and Rob Halford
• The difference between followers and fans, and what a real music career looks like today
• Why the old music school playbook feels dated in today's world
• Turning down an arena tour with one of the biggest Spanish-language artists in the world, and why he has no regrets
• The no-physical-location agency model and paying teachers well as a competitive advantage
• J.R.R. Tolkien and C.S. Lewis as the original multi-hyphenates
• Building a career you actually want... health insurance, a retirement plan, families who love you
  
  Learn more about Roberto's work here.
  
  www.robertosmusicstudio.com
  Instagram, FB @soyrobertohermosillo

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Transcript

SPEAKER_00 0:02

My guest today is Grammy nominated artist, studio performer, TV actor, music director, school owner, and on top of it all, a music teacher who genuinely loves what he does. Oh, and he's also a friend of mine. Roberto Hermosillo grew up in Mexico, earned a full scholarship to study classical guitar under Christopher Parkining at Pepperdane, then became one of the first Mexican guitarists to earn a Master of Music from Berkeley's campus in Valencia, Spain. He's based in Santa Monica now, where he runs Roberto's Music Studio, a thriving lessons agency, and stays active as a performer, songwriter, and studio musician. Today we're going to talk about what it looks like to find success as a multi-hyphenate artist, educator, performer, and business owner all at once. Roberto, welcome. It's good to see you, man. How are you?

SPEAKER_01 0:49

Thanks for having me. Um, I'm doing great. It's good to see you, man.

SPEAKER_00 0:53

And I, you know, I was reflecting and preparing for this talk how we met. You know, you were really just getting your lessons game going. You were in California, you had a lot of vision, and you were gonna make some things happen. And that was just a few years ago, it feels like, but you've really made things happen. So what's going on out there? Yeah, well, it was actually eight years ago when we met. Did we first meet eight years ago? Yes. I would have guessed five. Wow.

SPEAKER_01 1:23

Wait, when did you start Fonds?

SPEAKER_00 1:25

2017 is I think when the version launched that you would have used.

SPEAKER_01 1:30

Yeah, we met in like 2019 or 18.

SPEAKER_00 1:34

Okay, there's life.

SPEAKER_01 1:36

I remember very vividly because you were the first person in my life that told me that I was undervaluing my lesson pricing. And nah, that was like actually one of the most helpful things anyone had ever told me. And I I mean, I know that might sound like if somebody's just watching this, that might sound like, oh, like criticism, but no, it was like someone was like, no, dude, like you're worth a lot more than you're charging. And it was really the beginning of a beautiful journey.

SPEAKER_00 2:04

So I don't know if I've ever told you that. But I I remember those conversations well. And I remember being like, wow, this guy's got a lot going on, a lot of education, a really unique value proposition. And that time you were you were doing some stuff in the schools, you were building your private thing, you were all over the place. You're still all over the place. But yeah, so that that journey from then, you obviously raised your rates, you got busy, your business became and at that time you were just teaching yourself. I don't think you had teachers working for you yet.

SPEAKER_01 2:30

Yeah, I was teaching myself, and I was actually working for a couple of nonprofits, and I wasn't getting paid as much for what I was doing. And I was still trying to figure out how to get students for myself. You know, that was like really at the beginning of my journey. Like, how do I get more students where I'm getting paid, you know, a decent rate?

SPEAKER_00 2:46

That was where I was. And were you were you serving Santa Monica at that point too? Is that was that your location then? Or you were a little more spread out?

SPEAKER_01 2:55

No, I remember very specifically that we met right before I moved to I I was in the valley, I was in North Hollywood, which is it's not as wealthy as the west side of Los Angeles. And I remember right after we met is when I moved. First I moved to Color City, which, you know, it's I mean, for you know, music lessons, obviously, if if you are in an area where you know there's more, you know, wealth, it's easier to charge more money, right? That not I don't think that that means that you can't build your music teaching business in any other area, but I'm in Los Angeles and I was like, well, I might as well be where I can charge the most, right?

SPEAKER_00 3:34

So I was that did you move to to serve to be able to serve that clientele you wanted to serve? You're like, this is a geographical shift to where the people that I want to serve that can afford what I'm doing are going to be.

SPEAKER_01 3:49

Yes, 1000%. It was not like it was not accidental. Plus, you know, I had studied at Pepperdine for my undergrad, which is in Malibu, and I had a lot of mentors and friends from church, especially a lot of church friends who were very successful, you know, people, and they would tell me, dude, you're like, and I I feel like as a kid, you don't even realize that when you're like 18, 19, 20, you're like, oh, I'm just here in this pretty place called Malibu, I guess, and studying guitar and I'm lucky. And and people are like, no, dude, like people here are very wealthy, actually. And I didn't realize it. And I had a lot of mentors and friends who were like, no, if you're in these areas, you can actually charge more and you can work less and you can end up end up making a very good living just doing what you love, which is you know, teach music and and play music. And so, yes, it was a mindful move because prior to me living in North Hollywood, well, before that, I was in Spain, and then before that I was in Malibu, and I was like, okay, so if I'm in these areas, I can actually, there's people that can afford a higher rate, which is what from conversations that we had is like what I was worth, honestly. It's what I was supposed to be getting paid based on the education I had. So yeah, it was totally a mindful move. I was like, yeah, moving to the west side so that I can build a teaching practice here in an area that where I want to invest too, you know.

SPEAKER_00 5:05

And when you made that move, how long did it take it to work? Like when you made the move, you raised your rates considerably. I remember it vividly, your plan, but I don't really remember the journey of it.

SPEAKER_01 5:19

It took years. Yep. It took years, and there's many reasons why. Some really good ones, some not so good ones, but it took years. And you know, it's funny because actually in preparation for for this meeting, I was like wondering how many tries that I how how many attempts did I do at like building a teaching studio before the one that I have right now, which is the the one that I have right now is the most successful I've ever had, right? In many areas. This is my ninth attempt.

SPEAKER_00 5:53

Okay, your ninth iteration on this project. Yes. Yeah. You know, I was thinking about something today in my own personal, let's creative journey. And I it just I was just going for a walk and I was thinking, everything is an experiment, man. Every song you write, every you know, piece you learn, every gig you take, every business you start, every iteration of that business, they're all experiments. And anybody who gets somewhere along and it's it's a tenacity to, I think, realize that, to just say, okay, I'll do it again. This worked, that didn't work, I'll do it again. And here you are on the ninth iteration of your studio, in the middle of also doing dozens and dozens, probably hundreds of other projects along the way that are tangential and part of your music career. But that's so that's the real message that I wanted to pull out of this conversation today for people listening, is that every music career is so different for that for you.

SPEAKER_01 6:53

So I guess a short answer to your question, how long did that take? It took. I mean, I don't know if I can find it, uh maybe I can find a a a day when I was like, okay, this is when like it all exploded, right? It took like three or four years, but between those years I was working for Fender too, for like, you know, in on and off, I was doing stuff for Fender.

SPEAKER_00 7:17

You're building curriculum for them, right?

SPEAKER_01 7:19

I was a curriculum developer and on camera instructor, and I was their rest in a Latin music expert, so you know, anything in Latin music, they would call me for, you know, like as a consultant for that. But if I tell them what I did, which was I was a script writer, it was like, Well, you're a script writer? What do you mean you're a script writer? They would give me a song, and they're like, Well, make a lesson on this song, and we were actually write the entire script for how that lesson was going to be taught on camera. And sometimes I would teach it myself, sometimes I would give it to other people. I can't, you know, because of NDA reasons, I can't talk about a lot of specifics, but yeah, yeah, I was a script writer for lessons.

SPEAKER_00 7:57

And so that that opportunity came up, and you I'm sure you learned a lot from doing that.

SPEAKER_01 8:02

It was the best experience for growth as a teacher that I had in my life. Really? Why? Because I was surrounded by incredible music teachers, and like to the day, I'm still I'm so grateful that I got to be part of that. And I still call people whenever I ran into the other Fender play people, especially my man Matt Lake, who shout out to Matt Lake, who created the app along with a couple of other people, he he got me into that work, he hired me for that work. Uh, they were all incredible teachers, and I just learned how to create something that was digestible and easy to do. And I was like, I got incredible at making tabs and creating arrangements, which then I use that for my lessons even today. Like, I if my student says, like, hey, I want to learn so-and-so song, and I never heard of it, I'll come up with like an arrangement on the spot, and it'll take me five minutes to make a tab and a chart on it. Whoa, really? Yeah, because like I I start, I was a tabber at first for Fender. Like, I was all day, I was just making tabs. Like, and so I got incredible. I I can make charts like secretary, just like I know all the shortcuts for you know multiple software to do that. So, and I I just I just got really good at it. And and you know, the fact that I I learned to teach on camera, I learned how to speak clearly to a student, and that made me a better teacher as well.

SPEAKER_00 9:30

There are three things I want to extract from that that I think are really I did not know this about you. The first one, how cool and how interesting. I mean, before this gig, you had already studied with some of the best teachers in the world, many of the best teachers in the world. I'm sure that doesn't even include the master classes you've played for, but you're with you're with Parking and Pepperdine. I mean, you've had great teachers, but you were studying with these teachers as a student to work on your own craft. I think what you said is you as at the Fender Play opportunity is that you were with teachers to create educational content, which is a was a different just conversation that allowed you to hone that. I think that's an interesting thing. The second thing I think that was really interesting, that's a that's it's a second piece of you. When I think about you, I think of someone who's just really visionary, really grinding, willing to work to do what it takes, uh, but also seeking out an opportunity. And so that fender play opportunity began as a you were a tabber, you said, right? You didn't come in there like running the curriculum and building all these things that you you you had an opportunity and you kind of jumped on it. You learned that skill really well. And the the third thing that I just thought was awesome is that time there, how transferable that is. I would love to be able to whip out like a really good tab. I'm pretty fast, you know, when I'm teaching. But when you said that, I was like, I would love to be able to just crush an awesome lead sheet or tab in like five minutes for a student right on the moment. Like, that's a great transferable skill. And again, it just shows that unique journey that you were able to take and how it now it puts you where you are now. Because I think just a lot of people, they see people and they're just like, oh, I can never do this thing because they don't see the journey that you went on to get to where you are. They might see in the bio that you went to this college and then you went to Valencia and you study with Pat Patison, and they see the big bullet points, but they don't see the actual start out doing some tabs at Fender and then turned into this thing. And that's the message that I think is so important for people to see.

SPEAKER_01 11:31

Yeah, and I mean, and it's it was like getting a degree in music education, but they were paying me for it.

SPEAKER_00 11:39

That's awesome.

SPEAKER_01 11:40

And like obviously, there's other things that I wouldn't that I didn't learn there that I learned like that are, you know, I that are like classroom management. You don't I didn't learn there because like I was teaching to a bunch of cameras in a studio in Hollywood. Like you there's no classroom management there, you're just there sitting and teaching two cameras. So that that's different. But other than that, I I can see that I became a much better teacher there, and I'll be eternally grateful for that opportunity, and you know, that right now they're not producing anything for now. It's like really special as award to have been part of that first batch of the people that did that for like seven years, and I'm one of them, and there's only there's a group of like 20, 25 people that were those people, and I was one of them, and I'm like, oh, this is cool. And I got to learn so much from like honestly, from people that are a lot of them were better musicians and better teachers than me, or different musicians, like that. We also a lot of us have different backgrounds, but I just I'm very lucky that I got to be around them, and I'm still in touch with a lot of them.

SPEAKER_00 12:49

So and I want to try to put these pieces of the puzzle together, and I want to come back to your studio too. But talk about your relationship to songwriting and performing and touring uh and what you're doing right now.

SPEAKER_01 13:03

You know, it's funny because this comes up in dating life. So, what do you do? And I'm like, how how long do you have? Like it's a very long explanation to explain to people what do I do. Um, but the reason well, I always wanted to teach, number one, but I feel like I always had it very clear that I wanted to be an artist more than um a musician for hire, which is two very I mean, I feel like if you go to music school, people will tell you that those are two different jobs, right? Being a uh musician for hire, whether that's a studio musician or playing concerts or whatever, arranging is one job. Being an artist is another job. I always had the clarity that I wanted to be an artist, right? And I was always open to being a musician as well, because well, I had the skills, but for a long time I was like, no, I want to be an artist. And the teaching made a ton of sense to not because only because I enjoyed it and I was good at it, but it just made a lot of sense to have that stability from teaching so that I can then invest on my uh artistry, on my artistic projects. And along the way, yeah, people would ask me, Hey, you want to play at this concert? And I'd be like, sure, I mean, why not? You want to play a wedding? Sure, I want to play a wedding, you want to play with this artist at this big festival? Sure, I'll do. And um, at first I was very close-minded in the sense of like, no, I'm gonna be an artist and then I'm gonna be a teacher. And if people offer me anything beyond these two things, then I'm open to doing, I'm not interested. And I think in retrospect, that was a bit of a mistake. As I grew older, I realized that it's all art, that being a musician for hire is all art. Making an arrangement is art, making a chart is art, teaching is art, and I became more open to other things. And I have my priority projects, but when people come and offer me other things that I'm like, oh, this is really cool. Yeah, I'm down to do this. You know, like I still play guitar with people that I like and artists that I like, and I can't always do it. I was actually offered a huge tour in October of last year, and I had to turn it down. And it was like uh, you know, arena tour with one of the biggest Spanish language artists in the world. But I looked at it and I was like, God, I would love to do this tour. And if I take it, I'm not gonna have a single day off in three months. And I was like, no, this is not my priority. I'd rather use my time for my artistic project than go on tour with this guy, you know? And then the beautiful thing of being a studio owner and a teacher is that I don't have the financial need to go on those tours right now.

SPEAKER_00 15:44

If it's calling you and if it fits. Yeah. It sounds like there's a piece of also just kind of earned and learned wisdom in this now. There was a time in your life that you probably would have gotten a call like that to go on an international tour, and you'd be like, I don't care what I'm out, like I'm going. But to know, I love and I really love that you you talked about being an artist, because this is something that that really consumes me too, is the idea of experiencing each day with a creative spirit and with like do what you just said, teaching is an art, doing a transcription is art. And it's really, I mean, I believe it's how you approach it. And I love that you're able to spot these opportunities, decide whether or not they're the right fit for where you are right now, but also realizing that all these things can be done with like an artistic and a creative intention. That's the whole beauty of getting to live this way. And yes, it's they are all interconnected and they're all part of each other's journey in a way. These opportunities that come up, the people that you meet, the gigs that you take, the gigs that you don't take, the students you invest in, where you decide to teach, it all creates this fingerprint, right? That is that's you you, only you, and it's so beautiful.

SPEAKER_01 17:02

Yeah, and I and honestly, I feel like I got to that point also because I had to get rid of a lot of old school ideas about what a music career should look like, which they don't really in today's world they feel almost toxic, but in the 80s they made sense, you know? Like and and and what's an example of that? I feel like there's a lot of ideas that were put in me at school or by older generation, not all my teachers, but like some people were it was like, yeah, if you if you're no, if you study performance, you're successful when you go out there and all you do is perform. Yes. Or you're studio guitarist, and that's all you do. And it's like, okay, and then you go into the world and you are like, Well, the world is very different. Elliot is very different than when you came here in the 60s, sir, or the 70s, or the 80s, or the 90s, even like and and uh I feel like there needs to be this new playbook for what a music career should look like in today's world, right? Because I consider myself successful, but maybe I wouldn't be considered myself successful. I wouldn't like what's a lot of music school would sell a success wouldn't be me.

SPEAKER_00 18:24

Still. Or maybe that you got nominated for a Grammy. Yeah, no. Are those the things that are the currency of that dogma?

SPEAKER_01 18:32

Because like playing with famous people, doing famous things and Grammy nominations, winning Grammys. But if I tell you, Herek, I'm making multiple six figures as a music educator and performer. Like, like who's gonna call me to, you know, like you care because you're you get it, but they want to hear the shiny objects. They want the shiny objects. That's like the what used to be considered success. You know, it's like, oh, you're you're playing with so and so, and and and and I know people are playing with so and so, and I make a lot more money than they do, and their lives are not that fun, and their lives are some have a good life, some don't have a good life, and it's like I don't want that life. So here's here's I'm gonna be very specific because I know I feel like I'm you know roaming around the bushes, and no, that's great. It's when you came here, especially in LA, and I know because I heard so many stories of the previous generation. If you were here in the 70s or 80s, you could make a full-time living as a studio guitarist, and it was not easy, but it was a lot dual, it was dual Howard Roberts era, you know, like like it was a job, and you can only do it here. And I I I I met people who were like, Yeah, I recorded that song, that famous song in the afternoon, and in the morning I recorded a doc commercial. Like it was uh a job, and like there was like you could get a gig with a big artist, and they put you in a you know, fifty thousand dollar retainer in the 80s or something like and and and they pay you really good money, and it was like uh an incredible earning job. I don't want to be negative, but that world doesn't exist like that anymore. It's changed a lot, and if you're being held by those standards today, you're gonna feel like a failure. You know, like that whole thing, like, oh, I bought my house when I was 25 in the 50s, it's like, well, yeah, it was the 50s, like buying a house today in Santa Monica is different, you know?

SPEAKER_00 20:40

Yeah, I think that you're in LA, which is obviously the epicenter of so much of what spins out of our culture or from our culture. What do you see for you know, a young guitarist or a young musician of any type? Are the main metrics now TikTok followers or YouTube followers, or like what's the or Instagram followers? What are the things that people are are building into? Like, what's their what do you see as this new model outside of the teaching thing for young musicians and young artists?

SPEAKER_01 21:13

Well, I think the teaching is important, and I think that if you have a calling for teaching, you should definitely do it and it's gonna give you a great life. Number one it's a beautiful, beautiful career, number one. Outside of that, it's honestly it's gaining, yeah, getting fans. And it's it's finding a way to just get work. Like, and and I don't want to be negative, yeah. I still get plenty of work playing and recording and blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah. But number one is yeah, building the online thing and building building it the online thing, but also having actual fans and actual clients, not followers, but fans. Like, I play with bands that are more in the college world and the the performing arts centers world festival. Worlds, and it's almost like this middle class of musicians that are making a good living, and they're not famous, but they got their fans and their fans go for their concerts and they buy their merch and they buy the teacher and they buy the and they're like crazy about them. And and if I tell you their name, you've probably never heard of them. But they're making a living and they own houses and they're fine, you know. And there's just so many different levels of how you could be doing that. But trust me, I have friends that have millions of followers on TikTok. And if they do a show tomorrow here in LA, they can't get 100 people to go into their show.

SPEAKER_00 22:34

Well, so how interesting is that? And do you think that I mean curriculum has changed? I'm trying to imagine what curricula or curriculums how they would be changing in music school. And what I'm hearing you say is shouldn't music school really be teaching you entrepreneurial basics to build a fanship? If you're a performer, you should come out of school with a strategy for how you're going to find a thousand fans, right? A thousand true fans, whatever that thing is. And understand the mechanics to be able to create that. Because it is true. I know what you're exactly what you're talking about. A lot of these regional mid-sized bands, touring bands, niche bands, they do great because they're really savvy and they know what they're doing and they're managed well, and whether it's by themselves or somebody else. And it is a great living. It's really very different.

SPEAKER_01 23:25

And you know, there's of course the big label artists, the Serena Carpenter, like, and those are always gonna be there. And I feel like that's what I mean when schools sell you the shiny object, like music schools, like that that success, like and that's still a remnant of an old school system where that was the only way to get in. And I met a guy in a museum one time in LA who was part of a band who shall remember nameless, but like a famous band. And he told me in the 60s, you could walk into a label, tell them you had a band, and they will sign you. And I was like, You're joking, right? You're exaggerating. He's like, No, you could walk into a label, like my first manager walked into a label and got a job and asked for it. Like that doesn't exist anymore, you know that it's either through connections or applying or whatever. So there's that world of like those top artists, and then there's and if that's your only proof that you've succeeded, that's very hard. And I wish you the best, and I hope you make it. And and it's it's you could it could happen to you, but also there's a lot of stories behind it that no one's gonna tell you, but everything else in between, that and like being completely unknown, and that there's a whole world of you can be enjoying a beautiful career as a musician and have a great time and make a good living.

SPEAKER_00 24:52

I was reading an article written by a very famous classical artist who was talking about what it's really like being on tour on a holiday when you're on a train by yourself between two places in Europe that sounds very romantic and awesome. But the fact is you're really lonely and you're exhausted and you've been on the road for three months and haven't had a day off, like you were just saying. And it's like, oh, before you sign up for dreaming about this, make sure you understand what it actually is if you do, in fact, are the 0.1% of people that get to this moment. But also, you would think educationally that the focus would be on that, the median of like, here's how you have like a freaking awesome life. You're gonna impact all these people through teaching the thing that you've loved so much, and that's gonna keep your passion going. You're gonna some of your students they might get that Safrina Carpenter gate, but you're gonna be the person that's that's that's generating all this energy for the thing and the art that you love so much, and that's gonna create space for you being awesome in your performance career, your recording career, the other things that you like to do. And through both of those things, opportunities pop up, right? You're creating a flywheel. And I wanted to just quickly maybe you could tell us about one of your recent projects. I know you were nominated for a Grammy last year, and there was some really big names on this, yeah. Right. And and and I kind of know where I'm going with. Could you tell us a little bit about what that experience was like?

SPEAKER_01 26:18

Yeah, I mean, it was crazy, it was beautiful, it was sort of an emotional roller coaster. And I'm very grateful that I gotten to be part of something like that, right? So it the name of the project is Rock for Children. My friend Ruben Salas, who I adore, is a lead producer of that project. And he, you know, I met him through the Grammy World, and he invited me to be part of the project. And, you know, we there's a lot of things that we did for the project, and yeah, there was big names. I mean, it's a project of Alice Cooper's foundation. For it's he has a some teen centers in Arizona, and the idea was to create some remakes of Alice Cooper's songs and some new songs as well. And Alice Cooper was in the you know, a lot of the tracks, and there was slash in one of the tracks. Derek McDay McDonald's from Ron DMC was in it, Ralph Halford. It's a big team, by the way. It's not like I don't want this to come off as like I did this, and like because it's it would be a lie, and especially big projects like that are never like I did this, unless you're Alex Cooper. Alice Cooper can't say I did this, I can't. It's always like you're part of this team, and it's very humbling to be part of a team like that. And you know, yeah, of course, when we found out that the record that we they made got nominated for a Grammy was like very exciting, and it was just beautiful. It's it's beautiful to meet and work with Alice Cooper. Like, I'm a fan of his, and yeah, it's a big project, and I'm a part of that project, and I'm grateful that I get to be part of it.

SPEAKER_00 27:51

How did you say that project came into your visage? How did that rise again? You said there was was that through your connection at the Grammys?

SPEAKER_01 27:58

Yeah, well, not at the Grammys, but in the Grammy world. Oh, not not with the Grammy as an institution, but like when you go start going to the Grammys and to the Latin Grammys, you'll end up meeting a lot of people that are working in projects. And you'll not need people that have Grammys or have been nominated. And and uh I through that world, I met my good friend Ruben, who's you know, one of my best friends in the music world and someone that I admire, incredible musician, incredible producer. And he invited me to the project. So he was like, okay, he asked me to make, and and I said yes, and and that's how I ended up working in the project. And the first one, now we're making a second one, and uh, I'm even more involved in that one. And but so yeah, it's through connections, and and I guess that's the thing that because I have that stability in my teaching world, I get to go and hang out with people and not be needy or like pushy or whatever. Desperate, desperate is the word, yeah. And I feel like that has been the beautiful thing about experiencing the music industry from a place of power where yeah, I'm not desperate. I'm like, sure, if I get this gig, I get it. If I don't get it, I don't care. And sometimes I get things and I say no.

SPEAKER_00 29:15

And I don't say that with arrogance, mindfulness, mindfulness, and a lot of gratitude. And to be able to walk through the world and have authentic energy that is like, no, I'm gonna really consider this opportunity, but I don't have to take it. There is such a different thing, like you just said, about that desp that desperation of needing to get the gig or needing to get the call. It's such a different thing when you're just the confidence that comes with not having to take anything that comes your way. And, you know, I wanted to, as we're coming back to your studio and really painting this picture of all these things that you're doing. One of the things I'm really hearing is that your geography, we talked about in the beginning, was really important for starting your school and understanding, oh, this is where I went to school in, you know, Carmen by the Sea, that's it was really wealthy people there, understanding that dynamic of, oh, these people can support my business. In your case, it's the other leg of your life. It's also really the contacts you've made and the and the context of knowing them has been really important. So if you were starting a career again, would you could you imagine another location? Like let's say you were in maybe a secondary market, but are there other towns outside of maybe you know, Nashville or or or Austin that you could see yourself building a career the way that you have now? Or is it LA a critical piece to what's made you work?

SPEAKER_01 30:52

I don't think LA is the only place where you can do this at all.

SPEAKER_00 30:55

Okay.

SPEAKER_01 30:56

Um but this is where I I want. This is where it made sense to me specifically for many. It's not just the I I have so many reasons. Personal. My family's here, my parents and my siblings, not in LA proper, but they're uh, you know, in a town that's an hour to an hour and a half drive from here. So yeah, it's important for me to be around my family. Uh I did my undergrad here, so I already knew this place and I had connections and and I was familiar with the place, and I love Santa Monica with a capital L. It's a beautiful town. And I when I was a student at Pepperdine, I wanted to live here. I know I grew up by the beach, it reminds me of my hometown in Mexico. I'm Mexican, LA is very Hispanic also culturally, which makes sense for my music. And just I feel comfortable here whenever I play in Mexico, I just take a quick fly or I drive. And it's like, like I said, the epicenter to so much music that's being made here. So there's like so many reasons for which LA makes sense for me that might not make sense for some people. Like, I know people who are here and they're like their family is in Europe or their family is in South America, and they they miss that. And I'm like, well, my family is an hour and a half drive from here, so it made more sense to me to do that, right? Could you do that in San Diego? Yes, could you do that in Santa Barbara? Yes, could you do that in Miami? Yes, could you do this in in Dallas, Texas? Yes, could you do this in other towns? Yes, and you could still have access to a lot of things that I'm talking about, but to me, it just I like it here.

SPEAKER_00 32:37

Because the things that you just if we hadn't brought that up, you wanted to be close to family, you wanted to be close to the beach that remind you of home. You wanted a quick access to be able to get to Mexico, you're gonna do shows there. It wasn't just you were just coming to this place because it was the land of opportunity, which it is. I mention it because a lot of people, you know, we remember we first talked, and I was getting to know you and you know, talking with teachers. I love doing that. And something I hear a lot of, and I can imagine people maybe listening to this and just thinking, well, he lives in LA. Of course, he's got access to Alice, you know. Of course, he's rubbing elbows in the you know the grocery store with Alice Cooper and gets Alice lives in Arizona. Okay, what you but you you get the you get the idea. I know. But the the the idea is you live in a place that works for you and you find the opportunity where you are with with what you have and what's around you. Because and so that should be really encouraging, right? And I think all those things you just listed for why you chose to live where you are and to build what you're doing, and even within that saying, oh, this is why Malibu really works to build a business. And I want to circle back to that because we started with where your studio was when you were first getting started eight years ago, and now you're at this point where you've got you've got a really neat boutique type agency style model for how you run your studio. Tell us a little bit about how your studio works now.

SPEAKER_01 33:56

Yeah, absolutely. And the studio itself is is new, by the way. It's like a little over a year, like you're a year and a half old, where I started to bring other teachers. I had been working here on my own for a long time, right? And and I have still to the day have school, you know, contracts with a couple of schools, and I'm the music director at one of them. And and I had a very busy schedule myself. And what we do is that we provide in-home private music lessons on to yes, we don't have a physical location, and and there's a specific reason for that because because I don't well, because I don't have a uh physical location, I pay I'm a lot, I can't pay more to my teachers than any just about any other agency. I don't know. There might be other agencies that pay as much as I do, but I'm in the top range of how much teachers get paid. And like I mean, there's there's some group classes that I pay. I pay as this teacher a hundred 180 an hour for a group class. And being able to pay someone that I mean, that's a group class, right? The the the private lesson rate is is lower, but the private lesson rate is still higher than other agencies. I'm not gonna say it publicly, but yeah, like okay, I'm paying someone that much money for a group class. It feels great to be able to pay someone good. And even for the private lessons, for the private lessons, I I know I'm compensating them well. And that's something I learned from well, from another, well, and he's a mentor of my coach, actually, Ben Hyman. And you know, you know Ben Hyman. Yeah, of course. Incredible guy. I mean, you you and him are two of the people that I admire the most in the music teaching world. And he was like, Yeah, pay your teachers well, and that's how you attract the best talent. I pay my teachers well, and they're happy. Shocker, people work better when they're paid well. Mind-blowing. Yeah, I wanted them to be in a position where, like, which I've been in that position in my life where I might be doing something, and you know that phrase, they don't pay me enough to put up with this shit. They pay me enough. I'm I'm paid plenty to put up with all kinds of stuff. It's like, oh man, this is stressful. It's like, well, I'm getting compensated very well for you know dealing with this, so I'm not even gonna complain, and that makes a difference. And it's not all about the money, by the way, but people deserve to be compensated well. And you can't do that if you have a physical location, as you know, probably you can't you can, but like not in this part of the world. Real estate here is stupidly expensive. The average price of a house in my neighborhood is 2.5 mil. Wow. That's a low end, actually. I live in the poor part of Santa Monica.

SPEAKER_00 36:49

Yeah. And well, in your model, if you were to sketch it out, the other reality is that the parents, who are your usually are going to be the clients of your of your agency, they really prefer the in-home thing. So they're not having they're already so busy. They see that they're willing to pay more to have someone come to their house. This is knowing your place and know and knowing your area and knowing your demographic you're serving, that real estate is ridiculous. So why not use the space they have? And then the third piece is you kind of you lit up when you talked about paying your teachers a lot. And uh, I I know that I've talked to a lot of studio owners that that that want to start a studio. And it becomes a well, how can this pencil out to where I can get as much out of each lesson as possible? They're probably not charging enough to the client to begin with. But if you find that sweet spot where instead you're thinking, not all music teachers have the business acumen that I do or the Rolodex that I do of people coming in. I'm gonna pay them really well. I'm gonna give this incredible service to my to my students of my school, and everybody's gonna be happy. And I'm gonna make enough money that when stuff does go south and gets tough, I can just look in the mirror and be like, that's that's why I'm running the show. I get paid to do this, so I got to deal with it now. So that is a really beautiful place to find yourself in because you're just helping people. Uh, you're making everybody's worlds better, and through that, you're building a business that works for yourself. It doesn't matter where you live, what city you're in, what town you're in, what you teach, you can apply this methodology to your landscape and create something that looks completely different than what you're describing, Roberto. I I love that you shared that playbook. That's really cool.

SPEAKER_01 38:37

Yeah, uh, no, it's thank you. It's it feels good. And like I said, people prefer when you're dealing with certain demographics of successful individuals, they tend to be busy. And it's they prefer if someone comes to their house. Or, or, you know, there, I I mean, I have people that just do the Zoom, you know, and and and a friend of mine who's an incredible drummer, who's also been a mentor of mine, a touring drummer and coach, he's a business coach as well for musicians. He told me, Have you noticed that every time they pay you really well for a gig, they treat you really well. But when you get paid shitty money, they treat you really shitty. There's houses where I teach where they pay me, you know, a few hundred dollars per lesson. And they treat me very well. They treat me like, oh yeah, come on in and here, we'll tip you a hundred bucks. And you know, what do you want to drink? Like they treat you like like a rock star. But you I could be the same teacher, and if I'm charging very little money, people are gonna assume that I suck. Why? I don't know. I'm the same guy, which is the way it is.

SPEAKER_00 39:53

It's a universal truth, isn't it? The more you charge, the better people tend to treat you. Yeah, and you don't learn that until you live it. And then you make that shift, you're like, wow, this is a better existence. So right now, you've got seven teachers, your school's going great, uh, you're really happy, you've got all these projects, you're really busy, you've got a lot of things going on that you can't even quite talk about yet because they're just percolating. Can you give us an idea of where you see yourself in the next couple years with this?

SPEAKER_01 40:28

Yeah, well, I just just growing. I mean, I just want to grow. The idea is to continue to grow the teaching business more than my own. One of the be most beautiful luxuries of being this busy is that I get to cherry-pick the things that I do, especially with the families that I work. And it's getting to this point where I'm like, like tomorrow I'm driving to one family and I teach all three kids. And then the next day I drive to another family, and like I adore these families.

SPEAKER_02 40:59

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 41:00

And it's like I feel almost like Mary Poppins.

SPEAKER_00 41:02

I'm like, I'm going to the so-and-so family. And you walk into those lessons and you're that guy. You said Mary Poppins, like it's that thing. Yeah, because you you're excited to be there. You want to be there. I feel similarly about the people that I get to work with now. I'm so pumped to teach them. And then because of that, you're better at what you're doing. They're treating you great, you're feeling great about it. And you know, what an awesome place to be. That's I love that.

SPEAKER_01 41:31

I I want to stay with the school where I'm a music director at. I really love that community and they've helped me so much. Wait, can you talk about that really quick? Sure.

SPEAKER_00 41:41

Uh, I I don't know if I should say the name of the school, but yeah, I I work part-time in a school. I think it's important to mention this as part of your of the quilt of who you are because you're serving a different community there too, right?

SPEAKER_01 41:53

It's adjacent to the community of my studio, and then it like it actually, I met a lot of other families from there in another school and other people that I meet through church or friends. So it's everything you do is like we might get students at the grocery store, and then that person might introduce you is whatever. But sure, you know, it's it's a great school. I love it. They treat me extremely well. I and it it's part of it's it's a very core part of my community, and I don't see myself leaving that job. It's it's a thing that I was talking to another friend about. I was like, yeah, even if I was making half a million dollars in my in my teaching business, I wouldn't leave that job because it's like I don't know, I teach what 13 hours a week there? 15 hours a week?

SPEAKER_00 42:37

Um wait, you teach 15 hours at the school? Yeah. On top of your teaching, on top of your running the school, on top of the performing and okay. So you're you're really busy all the time. I work like 45, 50 hours a week. Sounds really busy to you. No, but you but you have that because of managing all those things, you must have serious organizational structures in place for deciding what to do, deciding what you're not. I'm assuming it's what you don't do more than what you do do, right? I'm sure you're prioritizing.

SPEAKER_01 43:13

What I don't know what time it is, like noon right now. I I haven't gone into org yet.

unknown 43:20

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 43:21

Monday mornings I'm busy. Like if I had like I was playing in Indianapolis two weekends ago. So that Thursday, Friday, Saturday, I was like booked, right? I'm like out. Like so sometimes, sometimes I I do have things like that, but it's not as crazy as it sounds. And just to go back to the question you asked, I see myself growing the passive side of my income. And because I have passive income, I've been able to cut back a little bit on my private teaching. So rather than like, oh, you know what, I'm making plenty on my business, I'm gonna leave this job. It's like, no, I actually love this job, I don't want to leave this community. And they helped me so much and they helped me get started. And I'm gonna keep being of service here. And and I started cutting back on some of my private teaching. And I became like the most flexible teacher in the world, like with my students, not with the students of my teachers, but like, well, yeah, you want to miss it to the sure, whatever. Like, it's not that I don't care, but they're families that I know, and I'm very flexible with them, not with the time of my teachers. With the time of my teachers, I'm very, you know, I have to be fair but firm because it's they they're not in the same position that I am. And so I must I see myself just only teaching people I love, growing my teaching business, and and still, you know, playing on the weekends. And and like you said, I'm very selective with what I do with my time now. Everything I do has to be has to grow passive income more than anything. Like the extra hours that I have where I'm not teaching myself, they have to, I'm lead generating, generating leads for my like I have a bunch of leads right now, which I haven't closed right now. There's like 22 leads that I need to close right now. It's two days like, yeah, I know, but like I need to close those leads, and um like I go do things where I generate leads. That's where I'm the most focused right now, because that creates passive income, right?

SPEAKER_00 45:24

Yeah. So I think that I've just I'm reflecting back on, and I can't wait to listen to this again because I think that as we're kind of wrapping this up, one of the things I'm gonna take away from this talk, and I just kept thinking about the whole time, as I listen to a lot of podcasts about different business things, marketing, different industries, the tech space. You don't hear a whole lot right now where what you've just described is a blueprint that is recreatable for an artist to make an extremely good living. And you said, I like that you said artist. This is a pathway for an artist to have an awesome impact, to be creative, to make an awesome living. We haven't mentioned the fact that this blueprint that you just shared, that anybody could steal or borrow from, and it would be completely different than what you did. The idea of really working hard, having this, building a community, serving people well, if you're hiring people, taking really good care of them. This is not in danger in the next 10 years, right? If anything, the thing that's coming is more people wanting more of what you're doing. And so we're in this environment. When was the last time that a musician were having this conversation? Like, oh yeah, we're good for the next 15 years. Our careers are dialed in. We're gonna be more important, right? And I keep thinking about that, about what you're saying, and it's yeah, it's really got me fired up.

SPEAKER_01 46:46

So no, and it's this is not a popular playbook because of ego, and because of what I just described at the beginning of like, this is not what I was, this is not the the the bill of goods that I was sold at at music schools or out in the industry early on, of like, this is what you're successful when you're like blah blah blah doing these things that I'm like, you know, and and and they're all really a remnant of a time in history where it made sense for musicians to do that. But if you look back, like listen, what two of my favorite artists are JRL Tolkien and C. S. Lewis, they were arguably two of the greatest artists of the 20th century. One of them wrote The Lord of the Rings, and the other one wrote Chronicles of Narnia. I think we could say that they were successful artists, right? They never left their teaching posts. Ever. That's something people don't talk about. Like it was like, as a matter of fact, in the intro through The Lord of the Rings, Tolkien says, I never expected anyone to like this. I was just doing it for my own, you know, joy or whatever. The freaking Lord of the Rings, the dude that Lord wrote The Lord of the Rings, never left his teaching post until later in his life when he retired. But there were and and in the intro, he says, like, if anybody's read the Lord of the Rings, this got delayed because I had a lot of commitments with my teaching jobs, with my teaching job.

SPEAKER_00 48:23

So I did not, I didn't remember that.

SPEAKER_01 48:24

So this is not an old playbook, what I'm doing at all. Like the the idea of having, you know, there's I mean, and I I really love it. I have a beautiful community I'm a part of. They love me, I love them. It's mutual, it's growing, they want to help me. It's so touching to see moms helping me, promoting my visit. I mean, I mean, I'm very lucky. I'm putting out a new single this weekend, I'm putting out a new EP next weekend that I spend like 15 grand making, which means that I was able to afford 15 grand to go make music, you know, and then I get to push it and I have videos that are going viral online, and people that want to buy like courses for me that are buying courses, which it's not a thing that I'm focusing much on, but but it it's like I'm making my art and I'm getting to work with my heroes, and but it's not a playbook that I was taught in school. That nobody talks about this, and it's not what people would define as this is successful, like but it's not old. Sorry, it's not new, like it's pretty old. JRR Tolkien and C.S. Lewis were doing it. It's not new at all, actually. Like people who do that, they would make art and they would do things to sustain themselves. The idea of you making art and that's all you do, it's actually very new, and people don't know that. People like we forget, we assume it, our generation assumes it is, and I I I know some people would say, Oh, that's very grumpy of you to say it's like, or you're saying that because you didn't make it, and it's like, yeah, not really. I'm saying that because it is new, actually. It came out of radio and television, and and that whole world where we're just gonna make one Elvis and one the Beatles, and that's success. But what about those of us who are just making a good living and a great living and having a lot of happiness, and that's a level of maturity that that's more personal maturity than anything else. It's like, do you want the shiny thing or do you want a happy life? Because this the the result of this, it's like a happy life. I have a retirement plan, I have health insurance, I have people that love me, I have people love. I'm still playing for thousands of people. I can walk on the street and nobody's gonna harass me. Like, would I love to still and next year I get to make it super huge as an artist? Yeah, that's that's okay, that's a plus. But this is not like like I said, going back to Tolkien and C. Lewis, they were not interested in being famous, they were just like, you know, doing their art because they love their art and they did incredible art. So I'm not doing anything anything new here.

SPEAKER_00 51:14

And I love that you said about building a happy life. Because I also know that when you ask a hundred really famous artists if their fame brought them happiness, it is not the fame that brings and often fame creates unhappiness and scrutiny and expectation and criticism and public shaming, the whole, the whole thing. And so being able to look at music as an actual career, right? And building your own and making a life that makes you happy. I mean, that's that's beautiful. I I hope we can do this again because I'd love to and I just want to thank you because this was so much great stuff. We're gonna really be excited to share this with especially music students and also people that are at any point in their career. But you know, I wish I would have heard this talk when I was in music school and been like, because I was entrepreneurial by nature, but I just what you shared today was so it was so clear. And although it was along your story, I just kept hearing these things that are yeah, be busy, do what you love, be in a place you want to be. Like they're they're just really beautiful bullet points that I think anybody could really benefit from hearing. So thank you so much for being here, Roberto. This was an awesome talk.

SPEAKER_01 52:28

Thank you, man. I really appreciate it. And I just want to say thank you for you know, always inspire me for being amazing. I mean, you're one of those people that I'm like, I really admire you. You've been really a role model for me as a as an educator and and as an entrepreneur. I also have friends who are famous who are happy. Like that also happens. What I guess my main message with this, which I'll end with, is being that famous is very hard to happen. And it's like almost, it's actually not in your control. And I know this because I work with famous people and I've seen them become famous. And they they didn't make it happen. It was timing plus talent plus a lot of luck. And that's something you can't control. What we're talking about, you can't control. You can you can not all of it, but like it's also lock involved. But I think that this type of life is available to just about anybody if you're willing to work hard and you love music and you're and you're and you're honest and you're kind.

SPEAKER_00 53:28

That's really good news. Thank you so much, Roberto. Appreciate you being here. This is fantastic. Yes, good scene. Me too. You've been listening to the 440 podcast. If you found this helpful, subscribe at Spotify, Apple, or wherever you listen to podcasts, and leave a quick rating. It makes a big difference. To learn more about how to run your teaching studio with less stress and more joy, visit fonts.com. I'm Eric Brander. Thanks for being here.