Making a Resilient Living with Jason Sifford

Jason Sifford is a piano teacher, composer, and performer based in Iowa City. He runs an independent studio, writes pedagogical music published by Willis/Hal Leonard and FJH Music, composes original musical theater for a children's theater program that now reaches hundreds of kids across Iowa, and recently joined the MTNA Board of Trustees as West-Central Division Director. He also just launched Piano Blocks, a newsletter for piano teachers on Substack.

In this conversation, Eric and Jason talk about building a career rooted in community and curiousity, make the case for 45-minute lessons, and share the origin story of Jason's highly successful theater project.  We also discuss his unique strategy for his latest Substack project.

This episode is perfect for any music teacher contemplating the arc of their career.

Topics covered:

• The 45-minute lesson format and why it works
• Leaving academia to go freelance and what that decision made possible
• The Aspen moment: finding your place in the club
• How a COVID-era theater project became a six-show, 17-employee operation
• Composing for students: writing only what doesn’t already exist
• A/B testing your music with real students
• “Passive income” and why the crank never stops
• Piano Blocks: writing for yourself first, audience second
• The income quilt, building a resilient career
• Work-life balance by the year, not the week

Learn more about Jason's work here...

• Website: jasonsifford.com
• Piano Blocks on Substack: jasonsifford.substack.com
• YouTube: youtube.com/@jsifford
• Instagram: @jasonsifford
• Sheet music: search “Jason Sifford” at halleonard.com

🌊 Connect with us:

• Join a supportive community for teachers & creatives at the Fons Family Facebook Group
  a supportive community for teachers & creatives
• Follow on Instagram: @getfons
• Learn more about Fons (Soon to be MakeMusic Studio!)
• TikTok: @getfons

Transcript

SPEAKER_00 0:04

Hey everybody, welcome to the 440. Today's guest is Jason Sifford. Jason is a piano teacher, composer, and performer based in Iowa City. He runs an independent studio, writes music for student pianists, and has spent years showing up everywhere piano teachers gather. I see him everywhere. As a clinician, as an adjudicator, and now as a newly elected member of the MTNA Board of Trustees. He also just launched Piano Blocks, his newsletter for piano teachers on Substack. Jason, welcome to the show. Thanks for being here. How are you doing, man?

SPEAKER_02 0:35

I'm doing pretty good. It's fun to be here.

SPEAKER_00 0:37

Yeah, so what's going on right now in Jason Sifford Studios?

SPEAKER_02 0:40

So right now, this is kind of an interesting day because today is like all the things I do a little bit. So I spent the morning, I taught a lesson, and then I ran over and did a meeting, uh, planning meeting for our state conference. And then now I'm here hanging out with you, and then I get kind of a nice little two-hour break, little lunch break. And then I will go teach tonight from I don't know, like four to seven. It's not a huge night. And then uh at the end of the evening, I'm gonna get notes about our theater camp, and then I'll dive into that tomorrow morning.

SPEAKER_00 1:16

Whoa, so you really did just lay out all the things. If you just could have made some time to compose a little new piece of pedagogical repertoire for you to put out in the world, that would have been great. That would have that would have done it all. So, yeah, so you're you're working on the state conference. Is the MTNA scene pretty active in Iowa?

SPEAKER_02 1:34

We do all right. You know, we're a we're a smaller state, we have 200 and I don't know, 50-ish members. Um, but we have a state conference every year. We probably have 70, 80 come to the conference.

SPEAKER_01 1:45

Oh nice.

SPEAKER_02 1:46

We always have a guest uh two guests actually. We have in we have somebody a guest artist come in and play a recital for us, do a masterclass, we have a guest clinician come in and do workshops and stuff. This year we're kind of lucky. We got um Carter Johnson, who's kind of fresh off uh the Clyburn finals last year, and uh and we have Christina Whitlock, who I'm sure you know, fellow podcaster out there in the world. So she's gonna come uh help us out with our teaching.

SPEAKER_00 2:15

That's good. When is that?

SPEAKER_02 2:16

Uh it starts Sunday. We go Sunday through Tuesday.

SPEAKER_00 2:19

Okay, so you're right in the middle of it.

SPEAKER_02 2:21

We are right in the middle of it.

SPEAKER_00 2:23

Okay, and you're and you're entering into the the summer phase of your teaching, I'm guessing, right? That's yes.

SPEAKER_02 2:30

Yeah, so I do I a version of what I think most teachers do. You know, I I I basically stop my regular schedule right before Memorial Day. Um, because the end of the school year gets kind of nuts for kids and everything. Uh and then I spend a couple weeks just doing kind of a reduced schedule for makeup lessons. Um and that's usually when like this theater project ramps up and we have our state conference, and then I'll take a little bit of time off, and then late June I'll jump back in with a summer teaching schedule. Again, like most people, especially in a college town, I'll go back to about a half-size studio if that um for the rest of the summer.

SPEAKER_00 3:08

And that gives you a really nice flow. There was something I was listening to you on another podcast, and there was something that I really appreciated. There was there was actually two things in the same kind of idea you shared, is that you were talking about how you have this, you I think you called it like adult ADHD for your career, where you're all over the place and like to do all these things, which I which I really that resonated with me too. I feel like as a musician, we want to be having our hands in all these things that keep us interested and that we're curious in. But I loved that you also, at the core, you're teaching that you're teaching, I think you said that 31 students at the time, and that you teach 45 minutes. And that is like my dream life. I am all about the 45-minute lessons. I think it's the perfect lesson length. We've never talked about this before, but I'm super into 45-minute lessons and about that 30 students. And I loved that you were talking about how you have a pretty traditional model. Like your lessons are one-on-one, and for the most part, they're 45 minutes and they they have this flow throughout the year. And there's so many folks you talk to now in the space that have have pulled in new ideas. They're doing, you know, 2020-20, or they're doing groups, they're doing collaborative with all these great ideas. But I don't know if you feel the same way. I love one-on-one lessons. I love 45-minute one-on-one lessons where I'm building this relationship with a student. And uh I was excited to see another teacher that's still doing it.

SPEAKER_02 4:30

So well, and it's one of those things like you know, I've I've experimented quite a bit. You know, I've tried group lessons, I've tried like a couple of partner lesson things, a little bit. Um, it just never felt like me. It didn't feel like authentically what I like to do. Um, you know, it what it really was fitting a square peg into a round hole. Uh so I had to just sort of give up and say, okay, I'm gonna quit that, because that's just not my thing. Um, but I really do love the 45-minute format. Um I'll preface that by saying I have a couple of half-hour students, I'll do sibling pairs back to back. I have a couple of like more advanced students, we do a full hour, but yeah, most of it's 45. I used to tell people, like I had somebody ask me like why I made this switch. I remember telling some people that I think 45-minute lessons are twice as long as 30-minute lessons. Because if you think about a 30-minute lesson, it's like five minutes to get in the door and get your stuff out, and then it's like five minutes to wrap up and all that. So a half-hour lesson is like 15-20 minutes long after you like ramp up and then quiet down. But a 45-minute lesson, like there's still that five minutes on the front and five minutes on the end, but then you have almost twice as much time in the middle. And so, and I think everybody realizes that. I think the students really kind of like it. I mean, I've I've done this with like six-year-olds. I can find stuff for six-year-olds to do for 45 minutes.

SPEAKER_00 6:03

Yeah, and I would also add that when I was teaching all hours or mostly hours, there were times when those extra 15 minutes felt like an extra three hours, right? Sometimes an hour just felt like I wasn't being effective in those final 15 minutes. And it the 45 when I switched seemed perfect. I could teach a young person, I could teach anybody an effective lesson in 45 minutes. Uh, and it just, and I just agree. And I think that if you're listening to this, the important thing is finding what resonates with you and works for you. Some people love to have a big gaggle of students in their studio and do the group thing, or some people love the quick 30 minutes uh and these quick ideas. But the you can save yourself a lot of time by experimenting and knowing yourself to know what works for your methodology and your energy. And you're you're a people, you like to connect with people one-on-one. You're that guy at the conference. I've always noted this. You're everywhere, you're talking to people, you're making connections, you're getting to know them, you remember things about them. And I'm sure that transfers into the studio. You probably really enjoy spending time with people and getting to know with them and being creative.

SPEAKER_02 7:09

For sure, it does. And it's it's, you know, I mean, I'm I really am an introvert at heart. Uh, but like, you know, I I really like sitting down with people and chatting with them one-on-one. And a lot of the way I teach is like that, because a lot of times it'll just start to be a conversation about what about this or what about that, or oh, if that's maybe I can help you out with that, or and I found ways to I've found ways to do that with students kind of at all ages. Um, I've had to work on it a little bit, but it it works. You actually can have kind of a grown-up conversation with like an eight-year-old, and they can be really into it a lot, you know. And then on the you on the flip side, you can be kind of goofy with a 15-year-old, and they'll have a good time doing that too. Um and then uh the way I I don't know, I don't know that I've done this intentionally, but it's just kind of happened is that you know, my student body is um a really kind of diverse bunch. So I have like I'll have a student who's doing like the straight classical thing, I'll have another student who's, you know, maybe they're nine years old and they're just kind of trying it out, the parents aren't sure. And then I'll have a kid that comes in and he's been he's got a solo in jazz at school, and so we spend, you know, 15 minutes just kind of jamming on a tune for a while, and like that's the lesson. And I used to feel bad about that. Like, I'm not I don't feel like I'm teaching this kid anything. We're just kind of like jamming on B flat blues for 15 minutes, but that's a great lesson. Yeah, I feel like that's my parents like I had a parent email me like a week ago and she's like, hey, this kid had like his best lesson ever, and I thought back to what we did, and it's like all we did was talk about some cool sounds because he got interested in like what the names of chords were, and then we just found a couple of chords that he liked, and then I turned a drum machine on and we just kind of jammed to it for 10 minutes.

SPEAKER_00 9:06

Now, are you are you really comfortable preparing a piano student for say high school jazz band as you are preparing them for MTNA adjudications?

SPEAKER_02 9:17

Yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_00 9:18

So that's an interesting thing, is that to be able to do both of the my grandfather was that guy. He was a concert classical player that was also a killer jazz player, and so I really, really respected that. Um was that something that you were were you always on that track, or is that something you discovered along the way?

SPEAKER_02 9:34

It in a weird way I was kind of always on the track. I had this weird, I have this checkered past from being a teenager. Uh I I had like I started taking piano lessons when I was in like second grade, but then I kept having teachers quit on me. And so like you do. I I try to tell myself it's not me. But like, you know, I took a lesson for like three years and then my teacher went back to nursing full-time, and then I took lessons with somebody else for a couple years, and then they retired. And then I took lessons with like my choir director at um at my high school, and then she got you know moved to another job at a different school, and then I took some time off, and then I had another teacher, and then she quit to go be a wedding planner. It was just all these different things. Um, but I kind of got saved because in between all that, I was a big choir nerd and a big jazz band nerd in high school, and so like on one hand, I'm like doing like the normal piano, classical piano student thing, which I liked and really enjoyed. And then uh on the weekends I would have I had like a little band with some friends of mine, and we'd go, you know, play for Diet Coke at whatever bar would let us in the door. And we did that for years. And then the funny thing is it came full circle because when I finished college, I was like so completely burnt out on classical music, I just couldn't even stare at it anymore. Um, and I got a couple of friends, and this is bet down in Texas, who had a regular like jazz gig at a club, and uh I asked them if I could just sit in. And so for about a year I would just sit in on one set and play piano, not particularly well. It was like being a student again, but it was just so much fun to like sit there in the back of some guys playing, and I'm just kind of doing my little chords and just that's you know, trying to learn how to be like a musician again.

SPEAKER_00 11:35

That is really interesting, and because if you talk to 50 classically trained pianists, right, 49 of them, 48, are gonna be terrified at the idea of a lead sheet in the real book or um or jamming with a jazz group. I mean, they just in my experience, so many, it's such a disparate world, it's a different pedagogy, it's a different upbringing. It's really interesting, and it's interesting that you in that moment, being a really great classical pianist, were able to check your ego because that's what really happens. Because I know when I was finished studying class, I was like, oh, I'm so good. I was afraid to play with jazz groups because I didn't think I was good, you know, and so I wasn't having fun because I expected myself to be good or something, but you were just like, I want to have a good time doing this. And so that was that's a mindset insight into yourself that maybe that you're wired that way. Did you just not care?

SPEAKER_02 12:33

As you're like, it's one well, I it's one of those things that's like, you know, first of all, I you know, I was in high school in the late 80s, so there was no internet, and I also grew up in Springfield, Missouri, so I didn't have access to like, you know, like the Chicago Symphony Orchestra or the LA Phil, or you know, so I didn't actually know what good was. I just knew that I liked doing it. Every now and then I'd hear somebody that was way better than me, but of course there's people always way better than you. Um, but then it was interesting because when I was in undergrad, I got into the Aspen Festival and I went out there and it was very clear to me that I was in like the bottom 10%.

SPEAKER_01 13:14

Oh.

SPEAKER_02 13:15

And it was it was one of those moments where like I kind of had to sit down with myself and say, all right, you're in the club. I got in, you know what I mean? Like I I can play, but I'm not at the top of the anything. But I learned to really enjoy kind of being there because there are a lot of great things you can do there. There are a lot of really fun and interesting people that are kind of right alongside you in it. Um, and ever since then, I've just kind of that's kind of where I've always been. It's like I definitely feel like I'm in the club, but I also feel like I'm not at the top of a club.

SPEAKER_00 13:54

Gosh, that is an amazing moment. And and what but it's also a testament to like who you are, the fabric of your person, to go to a have the courage to go to Aspen. And then to be to be your big fish in a smaller pond, you go to this, and you're like suddenly like, wow, this pond's big, and there's some big fish in this pond. It's a big pond. And to still understand that we have our place, because not everybody's going to be the most elite classical penist or violin, whatever it is that we're doing, but there's so much room for creativity and artistry and humanity and connection and career path, uh, that you just had it's more, I wouldn't call it a humbling experience. It was a realization and an affirming experience of your path as an artist and a human. And it's so cool you took it that way. Because I've seen students become broken in that moment, right? Where they're just like, whoa, I didn't realize it was gonna be like this. I'm out. Like I thought I was like the best person in the in the county. The news I wasn't I've been in the newspaper twice.

unknown 14:56

Right.

SPEAKER_02 14:57

Well, and I I credit, like, I I also remember like a uh I had auditioned at Eastman. I ended up not getting in uh for grad school. But when I was at my audition in Rochester, the graduate uh dean gave a little speech, and I never will forget like this one little bit of his speech. He said, you know, if your aspiration is to be an oboist in the Chicago Symphony, um, then I'll tell you right now that you're going to fail uh because I know the oboist in the Chicago Symphony and they have no plans to retire. Anytime soon. And it was one of those like real talk moments, and you could just kind of like feel like everybody, you know, all the all of us auditioning there kind of divide into two categories. Like some of them were like, Yeah, I can, I'll beat them out, I'll go to New York, you know, and then some of us were like, All right, this is the world we're in. I'll find I'll find a place. Because he did have that message. He did have this message of like, and I believe this very strongly, like, it is a big world, and I think if you are open to whatever life throws at you, it will throw you enough good with a along with the bad to actually like you know find a path.

SPEAKER_00 16:12

I I I want to dive deeper into that. I wanted to uh also share, I had a similar moment where I on my journey, I wanted to become a concert classical guitarist, even though I grew up playing like rock and all that type of stuff in in very rural part of the world. And I was studying with a great teacher out here in Seattle. I'd moved out here to study uh from Virginia, and my I finished my undergrad, and my I was really hellbent on wanting to win or even be able to be take part in the guitar, the GFA. It's like the biggest guitar competition in the world at that time. And so I was studying with this guy, and one day he's like, It's not gonna happen. You started playing classical guitar when you're 18. Like, you're good. You be in the and I think it's what made me a great teacher. And I was at this point where I would leave lessons and I would go to Wendy's and I don't eat fast food. I would get French fries and be like, I'm so depressed, I can't keep up with this guy. I'm practicing all day long. And it was that conversation of like mercy and reality saying, hey, you're not gonna do this, but keep doing it because you love it. And then it was once you realize that the doors really opened to really cool creative projects. Uh, and you then you say, Wow, that's made me a great teacher. Because I was really trying to work this as a late starter. I was, you know, and so I could really relate to students differently. And I and to everybody that's listening, you know, if we had 50 of these conversations there with people who have really interesting music careers, they're all gonna be like this. And the moment that you just shared, we can all learn from, which is like, because it's gonna happen. You're gonna be faced with reality, and it's how you process it and react to it, uh, is where the actual doors open. Those are wins. And so it's it's it's so cool that you shared that in the way that you did. So thank you.

SPEAKER_02 18:01

Yeah, I mean, and it's I think it's uh a common story. I think it takes some age for people to be able to tell it. Do you know like I don't hear this story from a lot of 30-year-olds? Like they're in the middle of it. I remember when I was 30, like I was way too close to it to see, and I was then I was scared to death and nervous, and then I'd get kind of, you know, you know, you get like jealous, and it's like, well, I didn't get invited to do that, and why didn't anybody notice the thing I did? And I think, you know, there's I think everybody's brain gets to that point where you know you get a little bit of that that itch and a little bit of that, you know, disappointment. But you know, looking back on it, like it's yeah, I wouldn't, you know, it'd be great to go back and like tell your younger selves like okay, calm down just a little bit. It's yeah, that you'll figure it out. It's not what you think it's gonna be. It's some of it's gonna be better, some of it's not, but try to try to mix it all up and see what you can figure.

SPEAKER_00 19:00

Did you have a hero at that time? Was there like a player or an artist or a composer that you really gravitated towards that you were inspired by?

SPEAKER_02 19:13

I don't I don't know. Like I I um the weird thing about me, which I think shouldn't be weird, but like I just I just always liked music. And like, so I would go through these phases, and that's what I remember the most of. Like, I would go through a phase and I would listen to something hundreds of times. So like I'd find like a favorite pianist of mine was Radulpu, and I got obsessed with his Schubert and Brahms recordings and just listened to them all the time. And then uh I remember one of the other things I was listening to in like my late 20s, early 30s. There's a West Coast jazz pianist Alan Pasqua, who did this album with Jack DeJohnette, and uh it was just incredible, it was kind of a Latin fusion jazz album, um, and just ate it up, and and you know, I did the Glenn Gould phase like everybody does. Um, I did like the weird contemporary music phase that everybody does. I'm very much a nerd that way. Like, you know, that you'd I'm like this, like with movies. Like, I'll see a movie and I'll really like it, and then I'll have to like go Google all the actors to see what else they've done, and and I'm kind of the same with music. Like I remember when I again when I was at Aspen, I think I went to one or two concerts a day. And most people there are mostly practicing. And I didn't practice as much as the others, but I did go to more concerts than anybody would. But I would then like you know, the roster that Aspen gets, these are people that are recorded a lot, and so I I would like go find all the recordings. Uh, and then I remember a couple times the Aspen Public Library used to archive all the symphony performances, and I like rigged up a little cassette recorder and I like dubbed them off in the back and made like little mixtapes for myself.

SPEAKER_00 21:04

Oh my gosh, like Grateful Dead shows, except for that.

SPEAKER_02 21:08

Except it's the classical music festival in Colorado. Um and I'm still like that a little bit, not quite as much because I don't have time to go to a lot of concerts, but so you had a natural tendency to just immerse yourself in the actual music. Yeah, right? I just like to listen to stuff.

SPEAKER_00 21:25

You were happy listening, and that's and it's you know, it's so funny stepping back and then talking. It's so cool to hear these stories because I've known you for a long time. You're also a person that's always you that's I it's a theme. You show up to stuff, and it's like if I were if you were like, well, tell me about Jason, like dude shows up everywhere. He's he's uh he always just shows up. You see that guy, and it seems like that wiring is one of the things that created kind of the path that you're on, right?

SPEAKER_02 21:53

Yeah. I I learned a really interesting lesson. There is a a guy, I shared a last name with a guy when I moved to Iowa City. Turns out He was he was 80 years old at the time and he was like the former art historian. But I used to see him at these plays at the in the theater department. And uh we were in the lobby after uh after a show, and um it was not very good. I didn't like it, but I I didn't really know, so he came up and he's like, So, what'd you think? And I'm like, I don't know, maybe it's not my thing. It's like I know they're trying really hard and all that. And he he just looks at me and he's like, it was god awful, it was horrible. They did this wrong and that wrong, and I'm like, and he's like, I knew it was gonna be awful. And I'm like, why did you come? And he's like, Well, you have to come, you gotta support the theater. So even though he knew it wasn't gonna be any good, he went. Because, first of all, sometimes you're surprised, and second of all, you gotta support stuff, and so I think that was a really important lesson. And so I do that. Like, I try to show up to stuff. Of course, I have opinions about everything, some things I love, some things I don't. Uh, whether I love them or I don't, I try to like figure out why. I try to, you know, why don't I like this? I used to do this with music too. Like, I used to really find Schumann interminably boring, like really uninteresting. And uh and then I learned to like it. Like sometimes it just takes like the right piece or the right performance or even like the right frame of mind from me. And then he, you know, became one of my favorites, and I've played a ton of it. So you kind of never know where inspiration comes from. I guess in a weird way, it's kind of like, you know, in in a business sense. I know people talk about this a lot on on the like Facebook group and stuff. Um, like you never know where the connections are gonna what's gonna pan out. So like you kind of need to learn how to be a fan of everything and just realize that some of them aren't gonna go anywhere, and you need to love those two, and then some of them are gonna go somewhere, and having really connected with those, it turns into something.

SPEAKER_00 23:58

Yeah, and and as I uh just moving into another area of your of your interest, I I see your scene as almost as a kind of flywheel, but it's really driven by things you're curious about and that you actually like. And I think that you know, because generally we would say, oh, well, I teach, I compose, I perform, but there's a piece of yours that's just immersing yourself, right, in the culture, right? That's it, that's and and being available and being and that's a gift that's part of the flywheel that creates this, like you were just saying, the network opportunities and just the opportunities in general, opening your eyes to seeing something, right? And to um to to being able to take part in it. So I wanted to ask you, how did you get involved with the theater thing? A couple times ago, a couple conferences ago, I saw you start talking about this, maybe three or four years, you were getting into doing musical theaters and the pieces in the summer. I think you were composing for them too, right? Like you were doing the thing.

SPEAKER_01 25:02

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 25:03

So how did you have we've talked about your private teaching studio, and I want to come back to pedagogy and composition later, but this seems pretty important to you, like as a part of who you are.

SPEAKER_02 25:13

It is. It's it's a funny thing because we um, you know, we moved to Iowa City in 2008, and I kind of had my life planned out in a certain way. I was gonna like teach, and then I was gonna do some freelance accompanying at the university because that was all kind of like my wheelhouse and what I knew how to do, and then that was great. And then when I got to town, um one of the guys that used to do a lot of music direction for theater here um did not like Sondheim, and they were getting ready to do a little night music, and somebody asked me if I could do it. And I do like Sondheim. I had a and this comes just from the random fact that I had a roommate in college who was obsessed with Sondheim, so whether I liked it or not, I was gonna get to know it. Um turns out I liked it, so that was good. Uh, but I was at this weird place where like the accompanying was just getting off the ground, and the teaching was just getting off the ground, and I was really, really poor. So I like desperately needed the very small amount of money they were paying. Um, I definitely had the free time. Uh, and so I'm like, okay, I'll try. Because I'd never really conducted before. And then it was one of those things that's like I just like lucked out in like a hundred different ways. Like uh two of the actors I got to work with were actors who had actually been on Broadway. Um a bunch of the other actors were, you know, just on that level and really dialed in. And this is just a community theater gig because Iowa City's like that. Um, and then in the pit, the uh the pit orchestra that I recruited, I had um a jazz band director and a high school band director. And they would sit there in the front row and just be brutally honest, like, don't do it that way. Don't no, we need you to do no, don't do no, no, yeah. More that's better. You had a peanut gallery in your pit? I had a peanut gallery in the pit telling me what to do. Man, this is making me sweat thinking about it. And you didn't fall apart, I'd cry. Well, I mean, the thing was is that nobody else was gonna do it. So you're stuck with me no matter what. And I told him up front, I'm like, look, I this is not my thing. I'm gonna do my best. I will try to start and stop the bus on time. Um, anyway, but they were really, really interested in helping me understand how to do it. And these are people that I still work with today, like 12 years later. Like it's it's there was a fantastic bunch of people. Um and so that kind of gave me the bug for it. And it's a really it also scratched an itch that I didn't know I had. Like I knew I liked performing. Um, but I'd always done very traditional, like, solo classical recitals, and I didn't love doing those. There was is, you know, there's there's something weird about me. It's like, can I play, you know, a Chopin ballade? Yes, I can play a Chopin ballade. There are a lot of people who you'd probably rather hear, so maybe hire them to do it. Um now there are some things I could do that you probably would like to hear me play, so I'll go do that instead. Uh, but what I discovered in the theater is that, like, oh, I can be part of this team and just be invisible down in the pit. We can make a bunch of great sounds, other people can be in the spotlight and take all the direct audience energy. Um, and it just worked. And so I just started doing that um pretty much on a volunteer basis, and that kind of became the hobby uh after the next thing that happened. The next thing that happened, and you'll appreciate this, is like on the business side of things, about three or four years trying to do this. I sat down with a spreadsheet to look at where all the money was coming from. Because I just figured I'll halftime teach and halftime a company, and that'll be great. I'll be full-time. Well, it turned out that the teach like 50% teaching made 80% of the money.

SPEAKER_00 29:30

Yeah, that's the universal truth, right? Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 29:33

And then I'm like, and I, you know, and I just kind of said to myself, you know, I it's not like I love them equally. It's just I like doing both of them. So why don't I do the lucrative one more?

SPEAKER_01 29:44

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 29:45

Like had it been the other way, had I made more money accompanying, I would have gone all in on the accompanying and done it that way.

SPEAKER_00 29:51

And so This was a situational awareness.

SPEAKER_02 29:54

It was yeah, and it's just like, you know, I like doing all of these things. Um, so I'm gonna do the one that actually gives me a chance to ford it.

SPEAKER_00 30:02

Got it. Anyway, before you go on, I love that you what I picked up from that is that the theater thing actually became a return to immersing yourself in music for the sake of the music, right? Is that correct? That you're in the pit and it's more anonymous and you're just making the music. And and as opposed to needing to be because I know what you're talking about, being on a recital on the stage, it's such a different thing than just playing the music, right? And so it sounds like that's what you were getting out of it.

SPEAKER_02 30:37

Yeah, because I mean if you're on stage, you know, giving a recital, like it's just you and the audience, and sometimes that's great, but there's also a lot of pressure, and there's a kind of preparation that it takes to like do that. Um, but in the pit, it's fun because like you can kind of soak up all the the good for yourself when you want to, but then every now and then, like if you're you know, if you're in a weird place, you can just like dial into what the trumpet player is doing, or you can dial into what the violins are doing, or you can go watch, you know, the even like some actor in the back who's got some interesting thing going on, and so it's it's like you get to be like audience and performer at the same time, which is really uh like what I love about any kind of collaborative work. Do you know what I mean? When you're playing with other people, like you get to be both, like you're a performer and you're an audience member.

SPEAKER_00 31:25

Yeah, it fills another piece of your spirit. You're like, okay, got it. And but you you create your own musicals now, right? Am I you don't you you produce your own?

SPEAKER_02 31:37

We do, and this is a well, it's and it's okay. I'll just preface it. Nobody will ever be able to replicate this. I'm very sorry. Uh it's stupid how lucky we got with this. But this was a pandemic experiment.

SPEAKER_00 31:51

Love it.

SPEAKER_02 31:51

So, like, you know, the pandemic happens, um, and one of the theaters nearby uh folded um and had to close. They lost their uh executive director and artistic director, a married couple, and then the community theater that I worked with completely shut down. We couldn't do anything. And then the guy, the managing director of our performing arts center was like, you know, we should do a holiday show and just stream it. Yeah. Just because what else are we gonna do?

SPEAKER_00 32:29

Yeah, let's do something.

SPEAKER_02 32:31

So we did, and that uh that couple, um, Katie and Keegan wrote a little Christmas show, and we got our friends together, and we rehearsed in masks and did the whole everything, and I was basically the music director, and it was like me and I got a couple of friends to come in and help out uh play along, and I did like some really rudimentary arrangements, and we just did it, and it was okay, you know what I mean? It's like one of those things. It was good, but we got a lot of extra credit for it being a pandemic thing.

SPEAKER_01 33:05

Sure.

SPEAKER_02 33:05

You know how those go. Anyway, so like at the end of that, I think either late in December or early January, um, the theater that these uh people had left used to do this outreach program where they would go do these theater camps. Well, that closed along with that theater, but another friend of mine thought that was a really important thing for the community to have. So he asked me if I'd be willing to write the music and the lady who wrote the Christmas show if she'd be willing to do an original script. And again, it's like, what else are we gonna do? Right? This is spring of 2021.

SPEAKER_01 33:45

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 33:46

Literally, what else are we gonna do? So I'm like, well, I'm sort of handy in cue base. Kind of. Maybe I'll learn how to produce tracks. And I had a friend who uh was a elementary music teacher, so I'd like to run things by her and like, can kids sing this? Is this a reasonable ask? Um and then Katie was great at the script writing, she'd studied it and done a little bit of it. Uh the Parks and Rec department of Coralville, city next to Iowa City, um funded it uh as one of their summer camp programs. And we decided to do four one-week camps that summer. Um 50 kids per camp, and yeah, all of them pretty much sold out because everybody was so desperate just to get back out into the world and do something. So that was great, and we were 200 kids in that summer. We got 200 kids, and it was great, and we had a we had a blast doing it just because it was refreshing to get back out there and make something. Um, and then uh it was popular enough that they picked us up for a second summer, and so we did it again. Of course, in the back of our mind, it's like, you know, are are we riding on pandemic extra credit or get lucky or what? Um, and we ended up almost doubling in size.

SPEAKER_00 35:14

Uh over 300 kids the next summer.

SPEAKER_02 35:17

Yeah. And so at that point, like we kind of figured we had something. Um and and then, you know, fast forward to this year, so it's 2026. Uh, we are finishing up our sixth show right now. Um, we ended up having to hire teams of actors to teach the shows because we can't do it anymore, it's too big. So we have two teams of three people each that travel around the state of Iowa doing these campuses.

SPEAKER_00 35:48

It's moved outside of just your locale.

SPEAKER_02 35:50

Yeah. So we have there are three teams. There's a new show, and then we do the previous two shows, and then the new show, all of them will run like six or seven weeks over the summer, and one of them's always here in town, and then the other two are in a parks and rec van going to I don't know, Okeboji or West Branch, or wherever, Des Moines or who is managing the execution of the operations? Um, our manager is a guy named Evan Hilseback.

SPEAKER_00 36:20

So you have you have a manager now?

SPEAKER_02 36:22

He's the he is the managing director of the Coraville Center for the Performing Arts.

SPEAKER_00 36:28

Got it.

SPEAKER_02 36:29

So that's that's uh where we do a lot of our community theater stuff. It's a 400 about a 450-seat theater that has a children's theater, an adult theater, and then they bring in shows. Like they'll bring in like the Glenn Miller Orchestra comes in, yeah, the Cedar Rapids Symphony comes down and does concerts. Like it's just you know a theater that has stuff. But he manages that theater, and then but this was a project that was really important to him, and so he's worked tirelessly to make sure that it's sustainable, that we're funded and supported. Um, I think this year they hired like 17 people, and this is all just sprung from your little COVID. Yeah, it's a it's a pandemic experiment. With Katie going, I'm pretty sure I can do this, and me going, I think I can.

SPEAKER_00 37:20

So you're still working with Katie. Are you two still the nucleus of the creative, the creative side?

SPEAKER_02 37:24

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 37:25

Okay, I know because I knew you had talked about someone that did the scripts, and every summer you create a new one, and then you do the two previous ones. And and so I wanted to just kind of go back and just point out a couple things. One, it is a willingness to do something you don't know how to do. Maybe I can figure out cube base, it's cool. Two, it's calling your friends up. And I, as you were in at this point, I'm getting this feeling you're really well connected in the area. You came to Iowa City, you immersed yourself in the area, and you showed up, not just like you do on a national stage, but you know everybody. You have friends, you have an elementary school teacher you can pressure test your music against to see if a kid can actually sing it. These are all those pieces that make a big project like this happen. I wish you were, as you were talking, a couple weeks ago, I was on a panel for Asta, the American String Teachers Association, about community music. And there were some of community music, which I actually had to Google because I was like, what is this? I'm being asked on this panel. I don't know exactly what that means. Community music is a music with an intention that is not to create elite classical artists. It's to put music and inclusion and um culture within a community. It could be anything from having a private music studio, it could be going into prisons and doing work, starting school projects, doing a mariachi band. It is what you're doing, it is one of the most impactful and successful community music programs I've heard about. I wish so much you were on this panel because the things that you talked, that the the conversation was about reaching an escape velocity because most community music projects fizzle out in the first couple years, right? And that's the reality. People get a great idea. I'm gonna do this thing, and it's gonna take off, and I'm gonna get funding for it. And they rarely last more than 18 months. They'll get through a season, and this could be any kind of community music project. Yours, you started out of kind of necessity, opportunity, and what you had laying around. Your skill set, this other person's skill set. You achieved quickly over two years. The first year, you're like, that's worked well. The second year it grew. That was your first indication of something called product market fit. Your idea, you're like, this fits. This is a my product fits in this market. That's interesting. And then the other people just show up and it kind of snowballs to where you're not managing the whole thing anymore. So when you're listening to this and you're thinking, well, I've got an idea, you know, that you it's really important to think about the little pieces that made the actual idea happen. You hinted at it early in the conversation, too, about basically opening your eyes, looking for these opportunities, being open to new opportunities, having a situational awareness. And you're you're giving away all your secrets, which is great. But there a lot of them are tangential and they're more subtle, right? Which is show up, ask questions, find friends that know what they're doing, be willing to not be the expert, try new ideas. When an idea works, run with it.

unknown 40:24

Right.

SPEAKER_00 40:25

And now you're having this really fun thing because every time I talk to you about it, I wanted to really go into this day because I see you at the conferences, and when you talked about this, I think it must have been maybe after your second year when you first told me, like your eyes got I remember your eyes being like you were pumped.

SPEAKER_02 40:38

I think that's right. Because I had tried to do, you know, some little some smaller kind of things in town, and they were exactly what you were talking about. Like we would try to organize like a concert or a little thing, and like maybe this will turn into like a chamber music series, or maybe this will turn into, and nothing was really getting traction. And so this was the first thing that like when we doubled in size that first year, I'm like, oh, this is what the people need. Plus, I really had fun doing it, so maybe I should do more of this.

SPEAKER_00 41:09

Win-win, okay.

SPEAKER_02 41:11

Right, huh? And you know, we're at a point now, like we're gonna try to start licensing it, the shows that we've written, because now it's like maybe people could do this in other places.

SPEAKER_00 41:22

Hmm. And I I is this do you see this taking more of could you of your bandwidth? And do you see your um contribution to it expanding if you imagine it going to other places, or do you see it being more of like an operational growth where you would license out the music to other places and have some other people run it?

SPEAKER_02 41:44

I think it's it's it's more the second, because I don't I don't know that I have a lot of expertise to like help somebody do the camp. But if somebody was doing a camp and needed a show to produce, then I think Katie and I have something that's in a format that is if not unique, then unusual and hard to find. Because the whole idea behind the camp is that it's an introduction to musical theater and it's large cast, and so we try to make sure that there's something for everybody to do. So, like, there's songs and there is choreography, and then some of the kids have lines, and then there are some roles that are big speaking roles, but then there are also roles that like if you don't know what's going on and this is like your first show ever, then you can just you know stand in the back and dance a little bit, and that's fine. Um, and so they're all just kind of carefully structured to be a very safe, easy introduction to theater.

SPEAKER_00 42:36

Got it, and it's working. Um, let me just shifting directions just a little bit. If you were to you um you're looking at all the things that you do, because I wanted I want to make sure we talk about your new project that you're doing on Substack. Going through that was really interesting, and I want to return a little bit to pedagogy and teaching and not so much about your philosophy, but where you are with that right now. Uh the side note I wanted to make is I'm guessing at this point in your career, marketing for you just means existing. I'm guessing your phone just rings for new students, right? You don't have to work.

SPEAKER_02 43:17

Yeah, sorry everybody, it it does just kind of ring. Yes. Now that uh I'll say two things about that. One thing is is that yes, from a marketing standpoint, I can just let the phone ring. Um but if I do that, I am kind of income limited.

SPEAKER_00 43:40

What do you mean by that? No.

SPEAKER_02 43:42

Well, like, you know, my phone rings for like teaching and my phone rings for like this these theater projects, but like there's only so much money you can make doing those things. So like these things don't scale particularly well. I unfortunately like doing things that do not scale particularly well, which I Think is a problem for a lot of musicians. Like they're it's really hard to find a sweet spot where here's what I want to do and like to do and I'm good at, and then here's I think all the things that musicians do actually make decent money. Like private teaching is incredible. I mean, a $50 an hour, $60, $70 an hour job, that's amazing. But you're kind of limited in either by your energy or when the students are available. And so then you get kind of stuck, and then it gets a little bit tricky to figure out other pieces of the puzzle.

SPEAKER_00 44:37

And do you do you feel like um is that why you do so many things? Do you feel like it's you're trying to create that flywheel of all the things where people just and you mentioned that if you don't pick up the phone, go into that a little bit. When you do push yourself, you say I'm income limited, my phone rings, my studio stays full, you're promoting your other projects. Is that what you were trying to say?

SPEAKER_02 45:04

I don't know what I'm trying to say.

SPEAKER_00 45:06

Oh, so you yeah, you your your concept was, yeah, my phone's ringing, my studio stays full, I get the calls about this stuff, but if I don't pick up the phone, then my I'm income limited. And and and I'm guessing that means you need to be focused on your other activities, maybe such as your composition or going.

SPEAKER_02 45:24

I guess that they it ever it there's there's kind of a minimum amount of maintenance that you need to do to keep the ship afloat.

SPEAKER_00 45:31

Fair enough.

SPEAKER_02 45:32

You know, so like yeah, I don't know anybody who can just not do anything and make it so like I you know, this this is all like passive income, and I'm putting air quotes around it. Yeah, passive is an absolute myth.

SPEAKER_01 45:47

Yeah, agreed.

SPEAKER_02 45:48

You know, what people mean when they say passive income is either well, it's either a magical thing that doesn't exist, um, or what they're talking about is something that actually makes money when you're not turning the crank at that moment. But you still have to turn the crank.

SPEAKER_00 46:06

Yes. Absolutely.

SPEAKER_02 46:09

You you you you can never leave the crank. Like you you still gotta do it, but like, yeah, yeah, I'll I'll sell a book when I'm not thinking about it. So that's passive income.

SPEAKER_00 46:20

I'm so glad you said that because it's good to see people that are further along in their career that just aren't that aren't trying to sell the idea of, oh, you just need passive income. Like, and it's because that's such a pitfall, people I think fall for this idea of what passive income. I like that you do the air quotes. I'm I'm with you on that one. Uh, all these things you have to keep turning the crank. The let's talk about your composition for a second, and then I want to talk about your Substack because uh how is uh and listen, I love listening to your pieces, and I can hear uh especially like the jazz, interesting harmonies and the way that you write them that I'm sure students really appreciate. Are you still doing a lot of that right now? Are you still creating a lot of new work?

SPEAKER_02 47:05

I'm trying to. Yeah, like it's it's one of those things. It's like I I um, you know, I I started writing, I think the first thing I wrote got published around 2007, 2008. Um, so I've been doing it for a while, but I've always been a little bit slow about it. Um, I only like writing when I'm like really interested in the project. Um and then I also only like writing if it's gonna be not another like something else that's not readily available, you know, like something I tell people like like nobody needs another like piano collection of like lyric solos. Because there's a lot of you know, like we don't I don't I don't think I'm gonna write another like book of preludes because there are a lot of books of preludes. Um uh but every now and then like I'll find something like oh I really like that and I can't find it. Like the f anytime I get an idea, I'll like Google it and like does this exist? And then if it doesn't exist, then I will try to make sure it does.

SPEAKER_00 48:11

Oh, so you create from a where you see a need and an opportunity, and you have to be interested in it.

SPEAKER_02 48:17

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 48:17

Got it.

SPEAKER_02 48:18

And it's one of those things that's like, I mean, the wheels are always turning, like I'm always improvising and playing around with stuff and writing stuff, and but yeah, that's the stuff that actually like ends up out in public for other people to enjoy. Because and I've talked about this on podcasts before, like it's it's really important for me to respect other people's time, like as a performer or as a composer. But like, you know, if you write a piece, you are asking a teacher to spend weeks teaching it, and you're asking a kid to spend I don't know, a hundred hours practicing.

SPEAKER_00 48:49

Hmm. So you're thinking about that going into the process. Yeah, respecting other people's time.

SPEAKER_02 48:55

I want to respect other people, because I don't I don't want somebody to like have to suffer through learning something I wrote. That's like the worst. That's like not so not the point. Like I want them to sit down and really enjoy doing it. I mean, you know, of course it's music, it's piano, it's hard, you have to work at it. But like I want it to be worth the work.

SPEAKER_00 49:14

Do you test your pieces against with your students when you write them? They must be think you're so cool to be like, wow.

SPEAKER_02 49:21

Not I don't know that they think I'm that cool. I I test parts of things. So a lot of times, like, you know, I'll I'll know some things that work, and then if ever I'm like getting ready to do something and I'm like, I'm not sure if this'll work, or should it go this way or that way, then I'll like run two or four measures by like four different students and see.

SPEAKER_00 49:44

Oh, A B tested against them.

SPEAKER_02 49:46

Yeah, yeah. So I'll do that kind of thing.

SPEAKER_00 49:48

Is that to see how it would fall under their fingers, like pedagogically, or just to hear how you like the sound of it?

SPEAKER_02 49:55

No, I always like the sound of it.

unknown 49:58

I love it.

SPEAKER_02 49:59

I always like the sound of it. No, it's to see how we if they like the sound of it and how it feels under their fingers, because I think that's the thing that people forget about with students is that like the physicality of playing piano is really difficult and often foreign to them. So what feels perfectly natural to me is gonna feel super weird to maybe a 10-year-old. And so I need to actually watch a 10-year-old try to do it. So I'll like give them two measures and I'm like, hey, learn this real quick, and then I'll just, you know, go check email, and then out of the side of my eye, kind of watch yeah, what they're doing to see, and if they figure it out and they're like, this is cool, then great, I've got a winner. And if they just like throw their hands up and like, I don't get this, and I'm like, that's not gonna work.

SPEAKER_00 50:48

Back to the drawing board, and I think that's a big part of editing, right? And being is create because we I've loved writing guitar pieces for students over the years, and I write stuff that just no one can play, you know. It's like because it's my they fit to my hands, and you put it in front of a kid, you're like, I can't play this. Editing's really important, and writing uh teaching music is really difficult to get the levels right and to get to where it's appropriate and it's fun to play. You're not wasting their time. So I I wanted to ask you about what's up with your Substack. I re it's really cool. I know you're putting some time into it. It seems like you've got a lot of yeah, is that yeah, tell me about that.

SPEAKER_02 51:26

Yeah, I've had a few weeks hiatus, but I've got a few new things that are that are coming out pretty quick. I think the thing was is that you know, I really like doing workshops, and I've done like different workshops and things for a long, long time. And then I had a couple of people tell me I should write a book, and then of course I've had people tell me you should start a podcast or you should do a YouTube channel or you should do you know what I mean? So there seem to be I don't know, something about what I'm doing that that people find useful, but I could never figure out like the medium that fit me. Like I like doing workshops because those are really fun. It's great when you've got people in a room and you can kind of have a conversation with them. So workshops are super fun. Writing a book is it's not my thing. There are a lot of books on pedagogy out there, and I think the ones that are out there are actually quite good, but also for a lot of the things that I would want to say it's the wrong tool for the job. Um, like a book, like books have to be a certain length and they have to have a certain structure, and like uh it doesn't fit me very well. Um, and then you know I played around. I mean, I've got hours of YouTube nonsense that has just been deleted because I'd make a video about something and then I'd watch it, and I'm like, that's no. Nobody wants to watch that. Um, and then I kind of found the Substack thing, and it just felt kind of exactly right. Because like I looked at what other people were using Substack for, and it's like, well, that's great, because you can have a conversation on Substack. Um you can it it works really well short, medium, and long form. Uh because that's one of the things that always frustrated me a little bit is like sometimes I have um 15 minutes of something interesting to say. Uh sometimes a topic only needs uh 10 minutes, sometimes a topic is like two minutes, and then sometimes a topic is like two hours. Um so Substack, you can just do kind of any of those, and it fits. And so I don't have to watch a word count.

SPEAKER_00 53:35

So you love the medium.

SPEAKER_02 53:37

I just love the medium, I think it's great, and it's and the platform is like a if if anybody out there like is looking for a a platform, like check out Substack because it's it's so easy, like it's drag and drop easy with audio, video, um, pictures, and but it's still mostly newsletter text based.

SPEAKER_00 54:00

Interesting. Yeah, and and you're seeing this as checking a lot of boxes for the type of work we do, right? Which is like you can have conversation. You you're basically saying you can build a community there through your followers. Is that and is your intention for your Substack just to put out your ideas? Who are you talking to? What is your who is your audience in your mind when when you're creating?

SPEAKER_02 54:23

This is great. I have no idea. Um, because of course when you listen to like content creator advice, the first thing everybody says is know your audience. Except I don't like talking to just one audience. Like I don't just want to talk to piano teachers. Like I might want to maybe some like amateur musician is really interested in this idea, or maybe a kid wants to check it out, or maybe it's just like I have got a couple of friends who read it just because they know me from like high school.

SPEAKER_00 54:52

Yeah, it's a way to be close to you. Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 54:54

It's like, oh, it's what Jason's up to. I don't understand half of it, but that's fine. Um, but it works really well for that. And so my strategy right now, which is apparently a horrible strategy, is to not think about my audience too much. Um, and just think about this is something that that I think is interesting, and maybe other people will think it's interesting too.

SPEAKER_00 55:15

Wow. I think that is a major takeaway, which is to build a creative process. Uh Rick Rubin, I just saw an interview with him uh recently where he was like, uh audience comes last, right? In his creative production process. And it I love that you said that, which is the goal is to create something authentic that you're interested in. And who knows?

SPEAKER_02 55:35

Obviously, which is not to say, yeah, which is not to say that the audience isn't important.

unknown 55:40

Of course.

SPEAKER_02 55:40

I think the audience is very important. I just don't know who they are.

SPEAKER_00 55:44

And that's not the intention of the words.

SPEAKER_02 55:46

I'll let them decide.

SPEAKER_00 55:48

Yes, yes. And I well, I I mentioned it because I thought it, hey, I thought it looked really awesome just scrolling through. And I love the topics were kind of all over the place. That now that we've talked about it, it makes a ton of sense. They were following your interest in that moment, probably something you're spinning up. One last question. Do you schedule time for that type of thing? I'm wondering when we talk about six areas or so that you're focused on. You said you have professional ADHD recently in a podcast, and I love that. Do you schedule your days, your weeks, your projects, or do you get an idea or an opportunity and just run and run with it in the moment? Like, are you where's the executive functioning coming in to do all this stuff?

SPEAKER_02 56:30

I don't know.

SPEAKER_00 56:32

Okay.

SPEAKER_02 56:32

I'm not a great scheduler.

SPEAKER_00 56:34

Oh.

SPEAKER_02 56:35

Um, like every now, I mean, like, you know, some projects require a deadline. And like, you know, like we have 50 kids showing up for a camp on Sunday.

SPEAKER_00 56:44

You'll be ready.

SPEAKER_02 56:45

It's gonna be ready. Um, and then of course, people that read the Substack knows that I've had like a few weeks of just nothing because I just haven't had time to do it. Um, but I know myself well enough that while I haven't been writing on the Substack, I've been like taking notes, sketching out like ideas. And so as soon as I do have time, I need like a day or two to be bored, and then I'll get restless and start writing again.

SPEAKER_00 57:10

Got it. Yeah, because you know, in kind of wrapping it up, before today, I was I've always really seen you. I knew you were active locally as this kind of national figure in the piano pedagogy scene that showed up and was really contributed a lot and composed and did all the things. But it really seems like you've built this incredible career around a core of your city, of your town that you serve, of like real people that you know and students that you've impacted. Uh and that has created this. I almost want to draw out the Jason Sifford flywheel, and maybe I'll do that because I'm putting it together in my mind, which is you've got this core of this community. Ideas spin off of that through your experience in the studio and other things, you know, meet Katie and she's a great writer during COVID, and then the next thing you know, you've got this thing spinning up, and they're all spinning back into things you find of interest and uh opportunities. Uh, I have one last kind of question is do you know when to say no? Like if something spins up in front of you as an opportunity, do you are you someone who always gravitates towards that yes? Like, I'll just try it. Or are you at the point now where you're like, I don't have the bandwidth for that. This isn't this doesn't resonate with me.

SPEAKER_02 58:26

I'm getting better at that one.

SPEAKER_00 58:27

Okay.

SPEAKER_02 58:28

Uh for the longest time it was, I mean, I'm I am a default yes, because I like to do the stuff. Um, so I'll do it. And then for the longest time, it was I'll only do it if I have the time. And then what I've discovered probably in the last couple of years is that the what you were talking about, the bandwidth becomes important. And so it's it's you know, I would I am better when I'm doing two things than when I'm doing six things, even if the clock hours work out right. And so, and I took this idea a little bit from Wendy Stevens, who runs Compose Create, but she talks a little bit about seasons. And so right now I'm kind of in theater season. Um, over the summer I'll be back in like kind of input mode. Uh, and I'll start writing again. Uh in the fall, it'll be all teaching because it'll be the season of teaching. All the students will come back, we'll start school again. Um and so when people and this is kind of the takeaway, I forget who I heard say this, but they were looking at you know that that awful idea of work-life balance. It's like some people try to do it day by day or week by week. I just try to make it like even out over a year. Like I'm always gonna have 70 hour weeks, it's gonna happen in this business. Like, you know, but then you know, I'm also trying to say to myself that it's okay to have like a five-hour week.

SPEAKER_00 1:00:00

It sure is. Because you know that's where you cultivate during those five-hour weeks is when you're walking down the street and you you've notice something that becomes your next big idea. That's exactly right. Don Draper and Mad Men laying on his couch coming up with his ideas for the big marketing pitch. Oh, yeah. You it's so true. And being open to the 70 hour weeks because they are part of the deal. Those happen. It's part of the deal.

unknown 1:00:26

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 1:00:26

Oh, that's amazing. Is there how are you feeling uh as a last thought? How are you feeling about the state of music or piano education, especially right now?

SPEAKER_02 1:00:38

Okay, so I've got a there's a substack sketch about this a little bit, but one of the things that I've I've told people um is that you know, I will never worry about the state of the arts and the state of arts education. I I it's something that humans do. Um, you know, the people in the classical music world will know Messian wrote the quartet for the end of time in a concentration camp. Like you can't shut it down. Um that said, in our modern world, I do worry about the state of music as a business. I think the state of music as a business and as a career is really complicated right now. Because I think the way that it worked um in like the end of the 20th century, where you had, you know, just these big institutions of like major publishers and major symphony orchestras and major and Broadway theaters and like all of those are really starting to go by the wayside, and there's a ton of really cool things like coming up, like you know, I love all the stuff that you're doing, I love all the stuff that um that all these other people that I found, like all these other podcasters and people with interesting little YouTube uh alternative kinds of businesses and and creating things, but nobody knows where any of these are going yet, and it's it's exciting, but it's also terrifying. And and that's kind of what I've got an eye on.

SPEAKER_00 1:02:12

Yeah, I would I would love I can't wait to read that substack. But you know, when I talk to you, and if I talk to just a hundred random people off the street, the thing that I see is in the career that you've built, it's there are so many people. My wife calls this the income quilt. You know, she's an actor, and we all it's all we've all we always have had an income quilt of all these things. It's really hard to fire you, Jason. You could lose half your students and lose a gig. You'd still have half your students and a gig.

SPEAKER_02 1:02:43

I've lost gigs. I, you know, a couple of years ago, there I was adjunct at a small college, and they were having trouble, so I left. And and it was it was really, really funny because like I had some friends that work there who were like in their early 20s, early or late 20s, early 30s, and they couldn't leave. They had not yet built the quilt. And so they were stuck and they were scared and really worried, and I think rightfully so. Um, I had a big enough quilt that I'm like, okay, I'm gonna leave that, and I'll I had something else plugged into that spot within six months. And so it there's a real freedom to that, a real I I don't make a lot of money, but I make a resilient amount of money.

SPEAKER_00 1:03:36

Oh, that's a great quote. That's a great quote. Yes.

SPEAKER_02 1:03:40

So it's that that is a comfort.

SPEAKER_00 1:03:42

Um and as a compensation for living a beautiful life that you actually want to live, that's a that is what more than a resilient amount of money. That's I'm borrowing that. That is that's that's a great thing to share. And I think that I am positive that the, and I can't wait to pick this apart, the things that have made things work for you in your career, all the things he talked about today, if you were to apply that skill set, if you were starting right now, the world would be your oyster because, like you said, people still need art. You would find the opportunities that exist in this moment to have to build a similar type thing, right? 20-year-old Jason Sifford right now, graduating from music school, could go out, apply the curiosity, the immersion, the community building, the intention of helping people around them, the ability to want to share their ideas at a grand scale, being creative, looking for ideas. That all applies now, right? Because humans need each other more than ever right now, and they're starving for it. So we are the antidote to you're the antidote.

SPEAKER_02 1:04:54

So yeah, I think I, you know, I think we do of a valuable service to the world.

SPEAKER_00 1:05:00

Totally.

SPEAKER_02 1:05:01

Well, it sounds so grandiose, doesn't it?

SPEAKER_00 1:05:04

No, it will it feels good, and it's good to hear your story about it.

SPEAKER_02 1:05:07

I believe it. The you know, every everything is is needed in some in some way.

SPEAKER_00 1:05:11

Jason, thank you so much for being here and uh keep us posted on what's going on. This was a great chat. I'd love to have you on again. Uh, thank you so much for this talk.

SPEAKER_02 1:05:21

Yeah, we'll have to check in any year and see what's what's going on.

SPEAKER_00 1:05:24

Yeah, awesome. Thanks, man.

SPEAKER_02 1:05:26

All right, thanks, Eric.

SPEAKER_00 1:05:28

You've been listening to the 440 podcast. If you found this helpful, subscribe at Spotify, Apple, or wherever you listen to podcasts. And leave a quick rating. It makes a big difference. To learn more about how to run your teaching studio with less stress and more joy, visit fonts.com. I'm Eric Brander. Thanks for being here.