Episode 21: Decoding Non-Verbals: Visual, Auditory, Kinesthetic in Marriage

Get ready for your mind to be exploded! Link for VAK Chicago Test

In this episode, we break down one of the most overlooked reasons couples struggle to communicate: you and your spouse may be processing your non-verbals in completely different ways. Using the VAK framework—Visual, Auditory, and Kinesthetic—you’ll learn how each style shapes the way we listen, respond, and connect.

This episode will help you recognize why your message isn’t landing the way you intended, how to identify your spouse’s communication style, and what simple shifts you can make to reduce friction and increase clarity. When you understand how your spouse sees, hears, and feels, you stop repeating the same arguments—and start building real connection.

If you’ve ever felt unheard, misunderstood, or stuck in the same patterns, this episode will give you a practical lens to change how you communicate—and how you connect.

Transcript

SPEAKER_01 0:00

Welcome to the Mindful Marriage and Family Podcast with Dr. Tamara Fackerell and Jake Fackerell. Jake, we are back in the studio for podcast number 21, talking about the VAC styles and how you can decode these to make your marriage a lot better.

SPEAKER_00 0:23

Well, it's good to be back. It's fun to be back. Always great to talk about these things with you. And when I first heard VAC, I thought, oh, is that a is that a typo? Because I thought, oh, maybe she's talking about RAC, which is randoms act randoms at random acts of kindness. But no, this is VAC, because you are the acronym woman of all acronyms. And so VAC is stands for Visual, Audio, and Kinesthetic.

SPEAKER_01 0:50

Yes. And so we're going to talk about how this plays into the nonverbal communication that can be so important for marriage. And the story goes that I was at Book Club, and one of the women we were talking about, like eye patterns, because the visual, auditory, and kinesthetic have to do with the eye patterns that you can see. So it's very visual for people when they grab their memories. And she said to me, I'm in the medical profession, and whenever I'm doing something, I've memorized, no matter what, I look down into the left. She's like, I've tried to maintain eye contact, but when I'm grabbing the memorization, I always look down into the left. So I said to her, I'm like, are you sure you don't look to your ear? She's like, nope, I look down into the left. And I said, okay, well, tell me this. Are you a person that when you have to sit still, your foot shakes? She's like, Yes. How are you reading my mind? How do you know this? I'm exploded. And it's like, well, this is that. So we're going to teach you a little bit of decoding that can really help your marriage and make it a lot better because the nonverbals can be really important in the communication of marriage.

SPEAKER_00 2:05

Yeah, I think most of the time we think talking is how we get our messages across. This is how we communicate with each other, is by verbal communication. But the vast majority of our communication actually comes from nonverbals, which I thought was fascinating.

SPEAKER_01 2:20

Right. And what we need to realize with our nonverbals is, and when we explain this system of VAC, is you're not arguing, you're just speaking different languages. And even though you're using the same English base, a lot of times you're speaking those different languages. And so you have to really get educated on, hey, what language are you receiving all the nonverbals and how do I receive it? And then how does it go from there? So we're going to talk a little bit first about visual. A visual learner, a person that does visual memories, you can tell because their eye goes, our eyes go up to the sky. I'm highly visual, so my eyes will go up. And if you're think right now, podcast listeners, think about what you did yesterday. A lot of your eyes will go to the left. Think about what you're going to do tomorrow. Your eyes will go to the right. That can be opposite for people that are left-handed, but for the most part, you want to know like, is my yesterday to the left or right? If you're visual, you go up. And their people, visual people, are people that care a lot about color. They need to see it to be able to think it through. And so a lot of their word spaces are like, oh, I can see how you would want that. So they use a lot of visually based words as well. And they really need like the space in front of them, the thinking is wide. So really they need that space in front of them to see what's going to happen next. They need to write it down. They don't really understand things until they write it down. They're better when a teacher teaches something auditorily. They're better when they see it written, when it's in front of them. So that's where the visuals come in. The auditories are people that really learn primarily through the hearing. Some people tell me, oh, I do so good on audible. I really like to listen to the book. I get so much more out of it when I listen to it. And so that auditory base is people where they hear the words and it means a lot. And you can get into a lot of trouble in marriage when you have a really high auditory person and a lower auditory person because they're like, I remember exactly what you said. And you're like, I didn't say that. They're like, yes, you did. I know exactly the words that you said, right? And so, and then the auditory eye patterns go ear to ear. So yesterday, tomorrow, right? So left and right. But it goes ear to ear when you're grabbing auditory. And then your kinesthetics, that is the down. So you look down. There are people that that rub their hands a lot, they can't sit still, they their foot shakes. And so that girl I was talking about, she was kinesthetic. And that's why when she memorized something and she looks down and to the left, she was grabbing that kinesthetic memory and then pulling her eye contact back up. And so she was telling me that she does better in the medical profession when they show her. Like she does better when she's standing next to the doctor and he's saying, you do this, this, and this. When they show her that example, that's the thing that works best for her. And we talked about how she's really low auditory. And people that are low auditory, it's like they have to turn their ears on and off. Like I'm not listening, I mean, I'm talking to you right now, but you're not listening. Like you actually have to turn the switch. And she said, Yeah, sometimes I'm at work and I have to, oh, I'm so sorry, I wasn't listening. Can you repeat it? Because it's someone they can go out of listening quickly and they have to, you have to have a switch to turn it back on. So if that's true when a kid with a kinesthetic, you might want to just like touch their arm and say, Hey, I I need you to listen to me about this and then say it. They're more likely to listen.

SPEAKER_00 6:02

That's absolutely true. Oftentimes I'm very kinesthetic, and so sometimes you'll talk to me, I won't even acknowledge, I don't even hear it until you touch my arm, and then I realize, oh, you're talking to me, and then it opens up uh uh you know that communication for us. Also, you know, we had children that were very highly kinesthetic. And one of them in particular, I remember, he was very, very fidgety, very fit kinesthetic, and we got permission that he could put some velcro in his desk. And then, you know, when he was in learning mode, he could just reach down and fill that velcro, and it just helped him to learn, to be able to sit still, rub the velcro, and he's learning as the teacher is explaining something. So it's very uh very interesting.

SPEAKER_01 6:42

Yeah, and kinesthetics really aren't listening unless they're touching or moving. And it's hard because visual really like a person to just like sit and listen. You give me undivided attention, you look and you look like you're listening. But the funny thing about a kinesthetic, it looks like they're not listening because they're moving and shaking, but that's when they are listening. When they're not listening, they're just looking at you, and that's when they're probably not thinking and listening to what you're saying.

SPEAKER_00 7:07

Aaron Powell Well, that's why it's so important to understand these these three different ways to communicate, because visuals think that everybody else should be visual learners, and auditory learners think that everybody should be auditory learners, and kinesthetic learners think that everybody should be kinesthetic. But when you can understand that everybody learns differently and can and know what the other person is, especially in their relationship with your spouse, now you can um, you know, you can maximize your communication with each other.

SPEAKER_01 7:32

Yeah, and kinesthetics also are really sensitive to smell. And so they'll go in the room and one of the first thing they'll notice is like a smell. And they're like, Do you smell that? So they're like, No, I I don't smell anything. Like, yeah, something smells. What is it? You know? So they're very, very sensitive smell and they're very, very sensitive to touch. One interesting thing about kinesthetics is there they do like touch, but they don't. You know, they want to be touched, but they also can be irritated through the touch if you do it the wrong way. So you have to really be able to communicate that as we go through. And it's important to the communication base. For example, sometimes Jake, Jake's lowest auditory. So before I understood this, sometimes I would be like, if you really cared about me, you would be listening to everything I say. Like, I already told you that. And he'll say, No, you didn't. I'm like, Yes, I did tell you that. I'm high auditory, high visual. So I would be like, I told you that, Jake. Nope, you never told me. I know for sure that I did, you guys. I promise you I did. It's just that he didn't hear it. He didn't have his on switch on. And it's not fair for me to say, oh, our relationship, he doesn't care about me because he didn't have his on switch on. God made us different. And so you just gotta honor that there's those differences. He doesn't have the automatic on button with his ears. Like it goes off and on. And so I've got to do the things when I need really careful listening from Jake. I've got to do the things I need to be in his visual purview or touch his arm. If they're visual, you want to say, hey, come to dinner, you know, and auditory, come to dinner, they hear you, and then kinesthetics, you touch softly touch their arm. Hey, it's time for dinner. And those three different ways will help you be able to connect in as you go through.

SPEAKER_00 9:12

That's where a lot of arguments happen in marriage, right? When you have a visual person and an auditory person, and the the person says, Hey, the one spell says to the other, hey, I said that, remember? And like, no, I don't remember that at all. And so one of the keys that we often talk about is when you are having a discussion, you never want to argue, you know, just arguing back and forth and your voices get raised and all that. That's never a good thing. So we always try to um when we are figuring something out, we sit down with a pencil in our hands and we are actually physically taking notes. And this could be at your off-site, your quarterly offsite, or this could be at your weekly uh meeting, uh, your discussion, or just everyday life. But take notes and then that auditory person that doesn't remember the things that are said, you can go back and re-refer to those notes and go, oh, remember we took a note on this, it says it right here, and we did talk about it. Oh, yeah, that's right, we did talk about that. So I that's always been very helpful for me.

SPEAKER_01 10:03

Yeah, and I think that one of the reasons that we talk about sitting down and doing it a pencil in your hand is well, first of all, if you're writing it down, then that's the kinesthetic way. Like you're right, they're writing it down themselves, and so they're more likely to remember. And then secondly, it's visually in front of you. You visually write out what it is and you have a visual reminder, and then you have the auditory speaking process. And when you have all those three things combined, you can't go wrong.

SPEAKER_00 10:30

I know, it's perfect.

SPEAKER_01 10:31

It's it's a perfect process for the visual auditory and also the kinesthetic. And so um w the one ways that the that the difference orientations of VAC can create different conflicts inside of marriage, we want to kind of go through some examples. But I do want to note for our listeners, we do have a test at mindfulmarriage.love. If you guys want to go into the VAC Chicago test, you can go down, you can take it, and you can maybe familiarize yourself with you'll have a primary style, a secondary style, and a tertiary style. And so the tertiary is like third place, you know, set first and second. And so when they're not matched up inside the marriage, sometimes we do a lot of decoding that just isn't right. And love isn't the issue, the translation is. So I think it's important to understand that we need to decode and translate based on where the primary styles are.

SPEAKER_00 11:26

The love is always there, just sometimes the communication is lacking because of the nonverbal communication or one's using visual and the other one's auditory. So, but but don't ever mistake the there's always love in the relationship.

SPEAKER_01 11:40

Yeah. And I think a lot of times the conflict that um that it causes, it's the problem isn't what you're saying, the problem is how they process it. Because they're processing it differently than you the output went out and they input it differently than you process it. So those are all the things to think about. But for example, one way that this can create the decoding can create a problem, for example, is when someone that's high auditory says, You're not listening to me. Listening shows care, you don't listen, you must not care, you must not love me. Low auditory, Jake, what do you say to that?

SPEAKER_00 12:21

No, I I say no. I do love you, I do care, I just didn't hear what you just said.

SPEAKER_01 12:28

Right. So it's like just no, he's like a radio. You got to turn on the listening ears and turn it off. And so, but you have to we have to engage in a way that if it's really important to me, because really when you get into the idea of listening, you know, we don't listen to everything around us 100% of the time. That would be completely exhausting. You know, there's times we need to tune in really sharply. There's times we can be casual about it, there's times that it really doesn't matter what's being said. And so you kind of want to know where we're at. But if you need the sharp tuning, then you just want to have a code board between there, and I'll just say to him, Jake, I really need you to listen to this. And that's like turn on your ears.

SPEAKER_00 13:10

Yeah. And if there's other distractions going on, like turn off the TV or just get into a spot where you can just really focus to each uh with each other.

SPEAKER_01 13:18

Yeah, and this is like the classic. This is true, you guys. So Jake and I sometimes will go to out to eat and there will be a TV uh in the restaurant. And there's some, like Buffalo Wild Wings, for example, there's just TVs everywhere. And literally, if there's TVs around, he's like this visual and kinesthetic or higher and auditory is the low. Like he will just be looking at the TV and I'm like, hello, like we're here. Like, hello, I'm in your attention, undivided attention to me. So we kind of came up with a thing. If it's important for me to not have him watch TV while we're on the date in the restaurant, then I'll ask him to change chairs so that his like his chair isn't focused towards the TV because I want him to be focusing on me, his number one.

SPEAKER_00 14:06

Yeah, we try to avoid those restaurants that have TVs, and if there is a TV when we get there, yeah, I'll try to sit in a seat that's not facing the TV.

SPEAKER_01 14:14

Yeah, but I think just giving that cue of, hey Jake, right now I need you to listen. I need you to turn on your auditory.

SPEAKER_00 14:21

Yeah, it's perfect. And you can do it.

SPEAKER_01 14:24

Yeah. And then some people have really long memories of what has been said, and some people have short. And Jake happens to have short-term memory loss, which I love. I use it to my benefit because we will have a disagreement and then like the next hour it's already gone.

SPEAKER_00 14:43

Yeah, I because I don't, you know, what what's the point? You you don't want to have that kind of stuff, and I just don't remember things. And it was great because I'll I'll just I'll have a place for it, I'll put it away, and like once I'm I moved on, I moved on. I don't want to bring it up again. So, but if if they're still nagging at me or bugging me, I'll bring it up and we'll get it resolved. But for the most part, let's just forget about it, move on.

SPEAKER_01 15:02

Yeah, and for myself, I learned like I have more of a long-term memory of things. And so sometimes I have to catch myself in my self-talk level, and we talk about the raft. I am responsible for how I act, feel, and think. I'm responsible for my thinking, nobody else. I'm responsible for it. So if I come back and I'm like, I remember when Jake did this thing when we were first married or whatever, it's like, no, like we've repaired, we've turned towards each other. We don't really need to remember and reminisce on the bad things that's occurred. Like when it's done, it's done. Like let it go, let it be.

SPEAKER_00 15:35

Yeah, that used to be a a real issue, but we got to the point where it's like, no, no, no. Once once we've taken care of it, once we've talked about it, discussed it, we've closed that box, it's gone. And we don't have to bring that up again. Whatever, whatever it is we were discussing.

SPEAKER_01 15:48

Yeah, that's gone. So when the box is closed, the box is closed. Let it be. So on the idea of you're not listening to me, a visual spouse might w might respond by pulling up examples or trying to so show a solution where really the auditory spouse might just want undivided attention listening. So that's where when we talk about the different communication patterns that we do, we talk about if you're in share mode or solve mode. And if you can differentiate that, then that can kind of help the conflict go through.

SPEAKER_00 16:20

Yep, I love that. That helps a lot in our in our marriage, in our relationship, in our communication. I naturally want to solve. I go into solve mode every time a problem is brought up. But it's nice for you to say, listen, I I don't need this solved, I just want to share this with you. And that's that's nice.

SPEAKER_01 16:36

Aaron Powell Yeah, and I think that understanding your spouse's style really does change everything. Because then you can know that, hey, there's other people that are low auditory, there's other people that are kinesthetic, there's other people that are this way. Lots of people are are dealing with these same issues. And it's interesting when you're raising young children, like with the kinesthetics, they're just like bouncing around and you're like, can you just sit still and listen to your teachers? Well, actually, they're listening when they're touching, when they're rubbing the ball, and all those different things. And so I think it's really important. And a visual person, it really matters like what you wear. It matters. Does it match? You know, uh like vibrant colors. I like vibrant things in my life. And you visuals tend to wear colors that are more bright and cheerful because that's important to them. Where the auditories are like, hey, tell me a story. Like words are really important. Word choice, how you tell stories, all of those things can be really important. So some of my my friends who are, you know, kinesthetic, married into auditory families, they say, Hey, we're sitting on the couch, and all they want to do is sit there and talk for hours and hours and hours. And the kinesthetics are just like, I just can't do it. Like I'm shaking, bopping, like I cannot sit and talk there for hours. Like they can do and talk, they can cook and talk, they can run and talk, they can do something with their hands and talk, but they don't want to sit and talk and talk and talk and talk and talk and talk for hours. And when you have the matching auditory to auditory, you get, you know, hey, here we go. Like we can talk for hours and hours and hours, and it's it's satisfying to both. So you might have a match where you're both auditory in your marriage, and that could be a great match, or both kinesthetic, or both visual. But a lot of times we just kind of get that mix up. So my friend who's kinesthetic said that she would always just say, Oh, I have to go to the bathroom. Then she'd get up, go to the bathroom, and then just not come back. And she would just let the family talk for hours without her because she's just like, it's just too much for me. I just can't take that much. It's exhausting to sit and listen as a kinesthetic.

SPEAKER_00 18:48

Yeah, when I growing up, my dad loved to lecture, and he could lecture a very long time, and it would be so hard for me to sit there and listen to these lectures. And but if you yawned, you got in trouble. You know, you can't yawn, you have to just sit there and listen and yes, sir, yes, yes, dad, you know. But it's interesting, you know, even in a marriage, if you're not careful, you will give a TED talk when all your spouse really wants is a hug, right? So so be careful when, you know, in in marriages and these discussions and stuff that you're not trying to solve a big problem with a big TED talk, and hey, you know, here's my TED talk for the day when you just need a 10-second hug, right?

SPEAKER_01 19:25

Yeah, and the kinesthetic is gonna want the hug. Right. Where the auditory might want the TED talk.

SPEAKER_00 19:29

Exactly. Right? So you gotta know who you're talking to.

SPEAKER_01 19:32

You gotta know who you're talking to, you gotta know what your spouse's preferential style is and what's yours, and then how do they work together? Where do they really benefit one another? And then where is the disadvantages between another? And so another example, number two, is you're so emotional about this. When kinesthetics talk, they it's how they feel, it's their gut. You know, their gut sense is is good. And so it's like, hey, I don't feel good about this. And so that can be also something where, you know, a visual is like, feel what? Like, you know, what are we talking about here? So the the emotion that can be played in um for a kinesthetic is different than visual and it's different for auditory as well. Okay, a third example of how the the visual auditory kinesthetic can cause problems in marriage is the idea, I already explained this. It's the auditory saying, I already gave this to you. Like I already explained it to you. Don't you get the directions? And a visual, like, might say back, well, I just can't see it. Like I I hear what you're saying, but I just don't see how it's gonna work. I need you to write it out. I need you to write it down. And that really helps for you, Jake. You like lists, right? You like me to write it down for you. There's the honeydew list he has, and he likes to have at least a one-week notice of getting them done, and he likes it written down.

SPEAKER_00 20:51

Yeah, because I like to check it off the list.

SPEAKER_01 20:53

Check it off the list. I'm done. You like to see it, you like to feel it and touch it. And even if you've done it, you still want to put it on the list and check it off. As the auditory, you can feel uh unheard. And the other person can feel misunderstood. And both can be true because of the way we input and output.

SPEAKER_00 21:13

Yeah, I know. If you're if you're visual, you know, when you hear, hey, let me explain, you're thinking, okay, I uh be be prepared to be annoyed. You know, I mean, that sometimes when you hear those things, you're like, no, not another explanation. Let's just move on.

SPEAKER_01 21:27

Yeah. And the and the auditory spaces where Jake and I have the disconnect a lot of times. And sometimes in the kinesthetic space, the visual spaces where we match up a little bit more. So I tune into that, and that's why I write down things. I'm like, oh, let me remind you with a text. Let me put you the scene thing, and that's something that can really help us in at least our marriage patterns and how they work together and how they don't work together. And then, like, but Jake, he loves a good back scratch, right?

SPEAKER_00 21:52

That's like part of his very kinesthetic.

SPEAKER_01 21:54

Yeah, very kinesthetic. He loves a good back scratch. So if you're married to a kinesthetic, you might want to figure Out, like what is that great touch that they love? They like their arm caressed, or you know, they like their their back scratch. Some people that are kinesthetic will, you know, maybe touch another person's arm up and back and up and back. They would love it, but the non-kinesthetic person stop touching me. Don't touch me anymore, please. You know, I can't stand it. So, and even it's interesting, like, for example, some people can study with music on. If they're lower auditory, I can't study with music on because I hear the music and it distracts my mind from thinking. They're like, Why can't you study with music on? And my groups that I had in college. I'm like, I can't. I can't think when I have the music on because I process all the auditory things as they go through. So, number four is there's different ways that these styles play into love patterns. So, for example, a visual might want you to leave notes. They want to plan, they want to organize, they want to see our future together, they want to dream together on paper. Where an auditory really those compliments, those kind words. And that's why with an auditory, why mean words cut so deep. I've heard of so many marriages where people say in text and in person some of the rudest things and for mean things. Really mean. Yeah. And for an auditory person, it usually cuts the deepest. Those words really cut. So you want to be careful about the words that you're saying, the compliments that you're giving. And then there's also the kinesthetic. How do they fill up the best?

SPEAKER_00 23:34

Yeah, well, kinesthetics, like for me, for example, I love hugs, I love physical closeness, I love to kiss, I love to walk hand in hand, you know, and just just being next to you and just touching you at night. I love to cuddle, you know, and so I think kinesthetic people just like that physical touch.

SPEAKER_01 23:53

Yeah, and so it might be the difference between one one spouse really liking cuddling and one not liking it as much. You know? Yeah. And so also kinesthetic people are more likely to like to sit on the end of a row. They don't like to be crunched in the middle of a row, they like to sit on the end, they like to have their their space. And so they're very sensitive to like their space zone and where it is. So that's something that can be important too. And the last point is just how the visual auditory and kinesthetic, how you can have conflict escalation or conflict resolution. And so inside the space itself, I think it's important that the auditory is gonna want to keep talking. Can we talk about this? You don't ever let me finish. We need to talk about it. We need to get it. Like, and so if you're married to an auditory, you need to get to the end of the conflict. You need to get to the end of it, and you need to talk out all the words.

SPEAKER_00 24:49

It's the end of the discussion.

SPEAKER_01 24:51

And don't interrupt me, don't leave, don't huff off. Be a man.

SPEAKER_00 24:55

Don't don't yawn. Oh, don't yawn. Pay attention.

SPEAKER_01 24:58

Don't get on your phone, don't take a call from someone else. Give me undivided attention, Jake.

SPEAKER_00 25:04

How long is this gonna take?

SPEAKER_01 25:06

Exactly. So you get all of these things back and forth where the visual is gonna want to have it, a written plan, get it organized, they're gonna wanna see it. Where the kinesthetic is gonna wanna do it. Like, we don't why do we need to plan so much about it? Like, let's get to the doing part.

SPEAKER_00 25:23

Yeah, and sometimes sometimes the kinesthetic will want to pace a little bit. I, you know, when we're talking about things, I I can't just sit there and talk about it. Like, if I can get up and I can actually walk, I'll catch myself when I'm on a phone call, a business call or something, and I'm pacing back and forth as I'm talking. Or you and I, when we're talking, you know, sometimes we'll just our best talks come when we're walk walking around the block and things like that. So I think for a kinesthetic, take a short walk, or you know, allow yourselves to just kind of stand up instead of just sit down the whole time when you're talking. And you still have a pencil in your hand, but you might want to stand up to pace a little bit.

SPEAKER_01 25:59

Yeah, then pacing is really important for that kinesthetic, and just realizing that we have all of these differences inside of our love patterns. And if you can understand how this nonverbal comes through, the visual with the eyes up, the auditories with the with the eyes to the ears, the kinesthetic down, and know the needs of a kinesthetic person, auditory, and visual, then you can really tune in to what's important and it can make your marriage great.

SPEAKER_00 26:26

Well, that's a wrap, everybody. We hope you will all tune in and you will like this episode and you will share it with all of your friends.

SPEAKER_01 26:34

We are so delighted to teach this magic to you. We hope this really helps you to be able to decode your marriage and to have a wonderful, mindful marriage.