Green Beret & Cop Share the Reality of PTSD | Chris & Marsha Lessard

What happens when a former Green Beret and a former police officer stop surviving and start healing?

In this powerful episode we sit down with Chris and Marcia Lessard to discuss Special Forces, law enforcement trauma, PTSD, traumatic brain injury (TBI), addiction, marriage, autism recovery, hyper-vigilance, mental health, veteran healing, and the groundbreaking brain treatments changing lives for veterans, first responders, and families across America.

Chris Lessard, a former Green Beret, opens up about combat trauma, alcohol abuse, prescription medication dependency, identity loss after military retirement, and the life-changing treatments that helped him reclaim his life. Marcia Lessard shares her journey as a police officer, young mother, trauma survivor, and advocate for mental health and neurological healing. Together, they reveal how brain mapping, MERT therapy, hyperbaric oxygen therapy, neurofeedback, functional medicine, and trauma-informed care transformed not only their marriage—but their son’s severe nonverbal autism diagnosis.

This episode dives deep into Special Forces culture, law enforcement stress, childhood trauma, veteran mental health, first responder burnout, emotional compartmentalization, healing relationships, addiction recovery, brain inflammation, sleep issues, toxic exposure, and finding purpose after service.

If you’re a veteran, first responder, military spouse, or someone struggling with PTSD, anxiety, depression, TBI symptoms, addiction, trauma, or autism in your family—this conversation could change your perspective forever.

Topics include:

• Green Beret life and military transition
• PTSD and traumatic brain injury recovery
• Veteran addiction and alcohol abuse
• Law enforcement trauma and hyper-vigilance
• Autism recovery and brain treatment therapies
• MERT therapy and neurofeedback
• Hyperbaric oxygen therapy for veterans
• Functional medicine and mental health
• Marriage, trauma bonding, and healing
• Childhood trauma and emotional compartmentalization
• Mental health in Special Operations and policing
• Veteran suicide prevention and recovery
• Brain health optimization and performance

⏱️ CLICKABLE CHAPTER TIMESTAMPS

00:00 – Why Chris & Marsha Are Special

02:21 – Marsha’s Story: Becoming a Cop at 21 as a Single Mom

04:48 – Chris Lessard: From High School Dropout to Green Beret

07:00 – How a Green Beret & Police Officer Met on Match.com

09:34 – Ride-Alongs, PTSD & The Difference Between War and Policing

12:33 – Trauma, Marriage & Learning to Be Vulnerable

14:46 – Childhood Trauma, PTSD & Emotional Compartmentalization

16:37 – Dopamine, COMT Mutation & Why High Performers Keep Chasing

21:24 – How Their Son’s Autism Diagnosis Changed Everything

25:44 – The Autism Treatment That Changed Their Son’s Life

28:28 – Green Berets Opening Up About Trauma Around the Campfire

29:22 – Alcohol, Painkillers & the “Dark Years” After Service

32:02 – VA Programs, Medications & Finally Finding Real Healing

34:48 – Sleeping Normally Again After Years of PTSD & Hypervigilance

36:51 – SGB From Dr. James Lynch

37:32 – Marriage, Masculinity & Learning How to Fight Fair

43:08 – From Johns Hopkins to Opening Brain Treatment Clinics

48:53 – Why Veterans Get Help Easier Than Police Officers

50:28 – The Difference Between Combat Trauma & Police Trauma

54:56 – Hyperbaric Oxygen Therapy, Neurofeedback & Functional Medicine

57:47 – Toxic Exposure, Burn Pits, Lyme Disease & Brain Health

01:03:18 – The Most Rewarding Part of Helping Veterans Heal

01:10:53 – The Biggest Surprise Dealing With Clients

01:15:49 – What They Value Most in Life

For more information go to the NoVa Brain Treatment Center website: https://www.braintreatmentcenterashburn.com/

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Transcript

Why Chris & Marsha Are Special

SPEAKER_00 0:00

Chris Marsha, why are you special?

SPEAKER_03 0:03

I'm not special.

SPEAKER_00 0:05

That's a tough, tough question to answer because I I don't think either of us ever look at ourselves as special.

SPEAKER_03 0:10

But I tell you why Chris, like why Chris is special. He is just like phenomenal at putting all the bullshit aside and getting stuff done with now, especially like the highest level of empathy and concern. And I think like it's always been for him about how he can serve and be better for other people and make the world a better place for other people. And I just admire it so much about him.

SPEAKER_00 0:37

I hate her to say that.

SPEAKER_03 0:38

This is interesting.

SPEAKER_04 0:39

Hold on, I like this and don't mess this up, Chris. What's special about Marshall?

SPEAKER_00 0:43

Oh, I know. Now she just like put me up here. I told you I married up. This one is this one's a saint. She really is. If I I always tell everybody, if she is not around, I don't exist. And that's just a fact in my mind. She is probably the most caring person, mother, wife, worker. She's the hardest worker, most talented person I've ever met, probably the smartest person I've ever met. She doesn't always make everyone laugh, but she cracks me up all the time because I understand her humor, but I see her interact with other people. And you know, there's not many saints in this world, but she's one of them. She really is, I believe that.

SPEAKER_02 1:17

And she has mermaid hair.

SPEAKER_00 1:18

And she has mermaid, which is why I've stuck around for so long.

SPEAKER_04 1:20

And now, couples therapy is over. Thank you all for tuning in. We'll be back next week. No, that was awesome. I like it. I'm Herb Thompson, a Green Bray and resolutionist.

SPEAKER_02 1:30

And I'm Corey Thompson, Herb's Less Hairy Half and Branding Expert.

SPEAKER_04 1:34

Our guests come from various backgrounds, but one thing is true they are special. I do think you're special. Corey does, obviously. I believe the audience will. Green Beret, former police officer, also your education. I think we may dive into that for both of you. Two brain treatment centers, Nova brain treatment center up here in Northern Virginia.

SPEAKER_02 1:57

Which we had the opportunity to tour.

SPEAKER_04 1:59

We did tour it and we got some B-roll be showing throughout the thing. It's just incredible the work you all do. You are special.

SPEAKER_05 2:05

Thanks, guys.

SPEAKER_04 2:08

I guess for March, what what led you to be a police officer? And I come from that's usually male-dominated question, and maybe that's my ignorance, but I from now to looking in, it's a male-dominated profession.

Marsha’s Story: Becoming a Cop at 21 as a Single Mom

SPEAKER_04 2:21

Yeah. And you went into it. How what led you to take that route?

SPEAKER_03 2:24

Say it's pretty multifaceted. I definitely come from a family that's oriented in service. One line of my family has had a military member in every American conflict since the Revolutionary War. Like so I definitely come from a service lineage. The generation before me was all firemen. My brother's a fireman now. And I'd be really honest, I became a mom when I was 15 and I moved out when my daughter was three months old. And I've been on my own since I was 15. And I was doing everything I could to like make it work and make it happen and get her out of that environment and have a better life. And uh, a friend showed up at my house one day when we turned like 17, 18. She's like, I'm gonna go enroll in college. And I was like, Oh my gosh, I wish you could do that. She's like, You can just come with me. And I went and I enrolled that day, and my college got covered by a Pell Grant. And I started to go to school, and it was like amazing. Like I was getting to go to school. And then my dad had been in law enforcement. A friend of his had recently gotten a chief of police position in Maryland. And one day I was at the gas station. He's like, Marsha, what are you up to? I ran into him. He was like, Didn't you want to be a cop? And I was like, Yeah, but I don't know if I'm ever gonna get to do something like that. He's like, I'll hire you. He's like, let's put you through the police academy, I'll hire you. So I went from like bartending and waitressing around the clock to suddenly like somebody saw something in me. And I firmly believe that, like, you know, we run a lot of genetic mapping and stuff like that at our clinic. And a lot of our eight, you know, our go-getter types have this thing called a comp T mutation, including me. And we like thrive in those fast-paced environments and we're very calm and collected in them. And that was me. So as soon as I got into the academy, it shaped things in me that needed shaping.

SPEAKER_04 4:09

How old were you at this point?

SPEAKER_03 4:11

Like, I started on my 21st birthday.

unknown 4:13

Wow.

SPEAKER_03 4:13

Yeah. As a single mom. As a single mom. Yeah. I literally was the D D for my birthday the night before. And when I showed up on day one, the instructor was like, Yeah, you have glitter on your face. I was like, I do.

SPEAKER_02 4:26

You're like, Marco.

SPEAKER_03 4:29

Yeah. In fact, like when I was on field training, we went, broke up a house party one night, and when I walked in, everybody was like, Marcia! And I was like, guys, guys, calm it down. That is awesome. Yeah. So that's kind of how I got into it. Yeah.

SPEAKER_04 4:44

That's crazy. How about you, Chris? What led to you being

Chris Lessard: From High School Dropout to Green Beret

SPEAKER_04 4:48

a Green Beret?

SPEAKER_00 4:48

So it wasn't the plan. So I when you know I was a high school dropout at 16 years old, and I just wanted to get away from home at the time. So as soon as I turned 18, because I had my GED, I went to the Navy because I wanted to be a SEAL, go figure. Boom. Yeah. Sorry, guys.

SPEAKER_02 5:02

Had you heard of Greenberg's before then?

SPEAKER_00 5:04

I did, but it wasn't like, you know, every SEAL, SEAL, you know, it's always in your face. So I went to the Navy recruiter and they were like, you have a GED. See ya. And I was like, all right, that's cool. Went to the Marines. They were like, nah, we don't want you. I went to the Army. They're like, we'll take you. Are you breathing? And I was like, cool, man. You know, my whole thing was, you know, it's funny, when I went into the recruiter's office, they were like, hey, here's your choices of duty station. And the furthest one away from home was Fort Polk, Louisiana. And I was like, I'll go there. And the guy was like, Are you sure? I was like, I didn't know anything about it. So I went to Fort Polk. Lovely, lovely place. Beautiful place. If you absolutely ever get the chance to go there, don't. It's pretty nasty. Um, no, it's actually not terrible, but it is. So I was there. So I did my three years, and I didn't really have a plan. And I just happened to be in our platoon office by, you know, myself. There was an RTO, you know, platoon RTO at the time, and SF recruiter called the office looking for somebody else. And they were, and I was like, Well, he's not here. And they were like, Well, can we talk to you? I was like, Okay. No, not, you know, I have no idea what selection was, how it, you know, the whole process. And I remember the day he was like, hey, all right, show up, PT course, whatever. I went there and it's like monsoon season. It's just downpouring rain, and I'm the only one there. I didn't have a car at the time, and I'm just sitting there, just drenched. And there was only like one other car in the parking lot, and he comes out, he was like, Are you Chris? And I was like, Yeah. He was like, All right, tell you what, we'll we'll just move on. Um, and then it was just I never looked back, so it wasn't even part of the plan. Like, I'm gonna be an SF guy here. It was just kind of just fell into thinking that phone call not happened. Yeah. I probably wouldn't be here. I probably would have gone back home trying to be a cop or something like that, you know. Not because I didn't have any direction. I just, you know, wanted to get away from home for a little bit and then see what happens. But yeah, that one phone call kind of changed the whole trajectory.

SPEAKER_02 6:53

I'm gonna throw something in that's not on the board here. Please. When you two met, did you know of one another's background or did you have to uncover that?

SPEAKER_00 7:00

Go ahead,

How a Green Beret & Police Officer Met on Match.com

SPEAKER_00 7:01

because she she loves telling the story. Go ahead.

SPEAKER_03 7:03

So I want to just like piggyback on what he said. We both were raised in really low socioeconomic status backgrounds with a lot of trauma, like a big trauma background. So, like the path that God has led us on is just like it's so much better than we ever could have thought, right?

SPEAKER_01 7:18

Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 7:19

So I was going through a lot in my law enforcement career at that time. And I had just had I right around then I had had surgery on my face. I was like, I'm gonna get on match. I'm gonna get on match and I'm gonna, you know, find a guy who's not intimidated by the fact that I'm a cop because I'm not gonna tell him. And I'm just gonna have, you know, I used to wear fake engagement ring everywhere I went because they'd either hit on you or like they, you know. I used to do the same. Yeah. And so I actually ghosted this guy for a date. He was a congressional aide. And I, you know, this is back when like you checked your email on your computer, you didn't constantly have access to it. And I went home that night and he had left me this like rancid, awful voicemail calling me all types of names for goosing him. I was like, that's it. I'm canceling this match.com. And I jumped on to like check my messages, and there's a message from this guy, and he had sunglasses in every picture. So I thought like maybe he was cross-eyed.

SPEAKER_04 8:12

Or is blonde or cross eye? So he was like showed up, like you're so beautiful.

SPEAKER_03 8:16

I had all these pictures from my recent trip to Hawaii up there. He's like, You're so beautiful. Give me a call sometime. You know, I had been out that night, so I crushed it.

SPEAKER_00 8:25

She did call me.

SPEAKER_03 8:26

I said, Who do you think you are to tell me to call you? And he texted me right back. He said, Is this a girl in the green dress? And I was like, Yeah, it is. I canceled the match account, but we started talking. And I told him for like probably a week or two, like, oh, I just work for the town or whatever. And then he was like, I'm a he said one day, he was like, you know, I'm a green beret. And I was like, and I was like, I was like, um, I was like, oh, okay. He's like, okay. And I was like, I'm just sorry, I like, I don't know what that is. And he was like, no clue. He's like, it's like army, you know. I was like, oh, I have a friend who dates guys in the army. He's like, it's like a, you know, it's like a you should look it up. And I like went back and I told my squad mates, and I was like, he said he's a green beret. And they were like, no, no, he's not. He said lying, he's lying. He's lying. And then I did finally end up telling him I was a cop. I think you demanded pictures for proof.

SPEAKER_00 9:23

I might have, yeah, probably. It sounds like a green beret.

SPEAKER_03 9:26

Later when we were dating, though, he had switched to National Guard, and you were doing some cool guy stuff, but not as much like at

Ride-Alongs, PTSD & The Difference Between War and Policing

SPEAKER_03 9:34

that point. And I had come off light duty and was like getting ready to go out on midnight shift, and you know, I'm like getting dressed, and he's like drooling. He's like, I'd like to go with you. And I was like, the rules for engagement are different.

SPEAKER_05 9:45

She never took you. I can't imagine.

SPEAKER_03 9:48

I never took you. Part of the reason I never took you is because when my brother came back from an Iraq deployment, I took him for a ride along with me. So we I didn't even have a cage, we didn't have cages in our car. So our bad guys would sit up front with us handcuffed. So my brother's in that seat. Sounds legit. We pulled over a guy whose legit name was changed to maybe it was motherfucker. It was something crazy. He had changed his name. He pull him over in P in PG County because I worked for a municipal department out there. It was like known for murder, known for murder, known for murder. And my brother was like, Don't get out of the car. Like he was freaking out. And I like Mr. Motherfucker was actually really kind and polite. But the way my brother reacted post-deployment, I was like, No, his name was Fat Daddy. He had Richard Chase's name as Fat Daddy. The way he my brother reacted, I was like, I'm never taking post-deployment veteran on a ride along again.

SPEAKER_00 10:41

Your brother's gonna get really mad that you're telling this story, but no, it's fine.

SPEAKER_03 10:44

But he's a good brother, he was very protective. Yeah, protective, yeah. He's always been a good one.

SPEAKER_00 10:49

And that's what would happen if you absolutely actually. I did go with a friend of ours, took me at a ride along in Clearwater. And I was just in the car and they went to a domestic abuse thing, whatever. Guy was barricaded in a room.

SPEAKER_04 11:01

Which are like very dangerous that people don't understand.

SPEAKER_00 11:05

Yeah, like it's it's a problem. So there was like three guys or three cars that showed up and they went out guns drawn. Well, they went in. Well, no one told me to stay in the car. I had a knife on me, so I was like, let's go. So they go, the guy came out peacefully, and they turn around, they see me there. They were like, Were you here the whole time? I was like, Yeah. And they were like, shit. Like you can't do that.

SPEAKER_02 11:26

They're like, go sit in the car. Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 11:28

So don't I get scolded, but yeah. Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 11:30

Yeah. It's fascinating how some of the conversations that we've had are like the differences of verified intel and for the reasons of what the intel is verified. It's like that's that's different for Green Berets. All right, show's over.

SPEAKER_04 11:45

Thank you all for coming today.

SPEAKER_03 11:46

Um on the sad side of it though, I mean, the drug epidemics, the different ones, like PG County had a harsh crack epidemic. We would go to situations often where there would be kids involved. And I just in the short time I had known him at that point, I couldn't imagine both both with our like background, the way that we grew up, going into one of those calls with like, you know, very sad situations for these kids. Like he, you know, you guys do things the way you do for a reason, and we need those people, but you expect immediate repercussions, especially when you're running and gunning in those environments. And probably we need more of that, but it just wouldn't have been appropriate. And I really liked him. He was so handsome, and I didn't want him to go to jail or it to be my fault. So I didn't take him for a ride

Trauma, Marriage & Learning to Be Vulnerable

SPEAKER_03 12:33

along. Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 12:34

Yeah. And I find it fascinating because we've said this over and over of those in the SF community that've had successful, you know, relationships. It takes a strong woman and somebody who's like, who do you think you are telling me to call you? That's the kind of woman that will capture your heart. Absolutely.

SPEAKER_00 12:52

I'm like, all right, she's a scrapper.

SPEAKER_02 12:54

Yeah, she's scrappy.

SPEAKER_00 12:55

I dig it.

SPEAKER_04 12:58

So both your careers did overlap then.

SPEAKER_00 13:00

A little bit, yeah. That's tough. Yep, yeah. So I was just leaving active duty, and then I did another stint on active duty for a little bit. So, but then you were winding down as I was, you know, also kind of winding down at the same time. You ramped back up. Then I ramped back up a little bit, and then it kind of wind down. And yeah.

SPEAKER_03 13:18

You know, I was, I was I can talk about this part. Like I was leaving law enforcement. I was medically retired at a pretty young age. And we talk a lot in the clinic and clinical practice, the things that we do about identity. And I had had like, I'm never getting married. I'm never I am going to, I was at Johns Hopkins at the time. I was finishing a graduate degree. I was like, I am never getting married. I'm gonna focus on my daughter. I want to be a federal agent. I want to travel the world and I want to do cool stuff. Like, that's all I want to do, and I don't want to be locked down.

SPEAKER_00 13:47

Got her.

SPEAKER_03 13:48

Got me. And then I had a major incident at work. I ended up uh being medically retired and leaving. And it was, it was such a like a God moment for sure, because it made me vulnerable for the first time that I was willing to like recede back enough, not lose my toughness, but be with a strong man and let him lead. Yeah, which is who I'm divinely created to be, right? And like still bring all my gumption to the table with that. But he came right at the right time because a year before I would have been like, ah, go to SWAT school. See you later, right? Not gonna do it. So it worked out exactly the way it should, because then my identity shifted pretty quickly because he was like, You want to marry me? And I was like, Yeah, I do to this Green Beret wife and like holding things down in a different way. We Chris will often say, and I'll say it too, like, we mish we wish we met in middle school, but realistically, like that would have been great.

SPEAKER_00 14:42

It wouldn't have worked out.

SPEAKER_03 14:43

It wouldn't have worked out because we both had to go through all the different

Childhood Trauma, PTSD & Emotional Compartmentalization

SPEAKER_03 14:46

things we went through to learn what a trauma bond is, to learn like what a healthy version of me is. And you have to crash and burn to learn those lessons.

SPEAKER_02 14:55

Yeah, and even just to understand like healthy boundaries and how to help hold your spouse accountable without that being, you know, a bad thing. That can be a good thing. Or a power struggle. Right. Exactly. And I think, yeah, so much of that, you know, because I was protecting myself, you know, at such, you know, different stages in my life definitely made me resistant to embracing having a strong man. But yeah, I think same had we met earlier, it definitely wouldn't be.

SPEAKER_04 15:22

I just want for the record, you did say I don't need to be held accountable. That's what I heard you say. So I'm good.

SPEAKER_02 15:26

Yeah, not what I said.

SPEAKER_04 15:28

I'm good. I heard it, it's recorded live. I don't think that's what I said.

SPEAKER_02 15:32

I said accountable in a healthy man in a healthy way.

SPEAKER_04 15:35

No, but it like I I wasn't ready for and maybe did resist at the beginning, but like it opens. That's why I think when you know the person, it's like it starts opening things, and it is tough. Yeah, like we went through some and I'm sure you all did too, some rough times that unpacking that.

SPEAKER_00 15:53

But then you really do have to, like you said, you know, holding your spouse accountable, but really holding yourself accountable too, and then making yourself vulnerable to this other person, which for me that was like a tremendous like I don't know if I can do this, and but like you said, it just opens up so much and like wow, life is way better when I did this. So it's well worth it.

SPEAKER_03 16:11

Well, yeah, I think with like the childhood trauma stuff, there's a reason we always say this, like why you guys are selected, it's because you're master compartmentalizers. Yes. And on the flip side, like I'm the one of the feminine versions of a master compartmentalizer. So we can fall right into this role. Happily a married couple, 1950s style, but those compartments get a little leaky when other stuff comes up. And usually you're really good at compartmentalizing if you have at least one stabilizing

Dopamine, COMT Mutation & Why High Performers Keep Chasing

SPEAKER_03 16:37

factor. When you start getting into TBI and the overwhelming PTSD and you know, all these different things, and they start layering on, you jack up that stabilizing factor, and then you have to deal with stuff. It it becomes like a non-negotiable. You either deal with it or you lose everything.

SPEAKER_04 16:52

Right. We we talk about it often of like and we know some people too, like as long as you keep going, as long as I'm chasing something, I can keep it away. Yeah, I can keep it away. It's when I sit down and I'm like, I got nothing to do today.

SPEAKER_00 17:04

Yep.

SPEAKER_04 17:05

Oh man, I need to start chasing something because otherwise it starts seeping out.

SPEAKER_02 17:10

I we know a lot of people from the community who like chase and they still chase it, and it's indifferently, like not chasing in in a special forces way, but like through your career, through my career, like I was chasing something as well. So definitely relationship.

SPEAKER_04 17:25

We almost equate it to, and this is non-medical, but like a a reform crack addict or addict, uh not happy crack addict. You're gonna fill it with another like some.

SPEAKER_03 17:38

So one of the things that we test for at the clinic, if people want to be tested for it, is a methylation snip. One of the methylation SNPs that we find really common in like these go-getter personalities, people who are always chasing, is called a COMT mutation. So the typical average person who doesn't have it, their dopamine window is like this big. If you have a COMT mutation, and I'm willing to bet that both of you, or at least for sure you do, have the COMT mutation. Your window for dopamine is right, is very so it's really hard to feel optimal. And these are your people who like go, go, go, go, because the brain breaks down dopamine so fast. And then you can, you know, flip to the other side where you're not breaking it down fast enough, and then you feel really flat. Really, it's very interesting because methylation is an enzymatic process, happens a billion times a minute, every cell in your body, right? But it's very much supported by the way that you eat, the environment around you, the air quality. So you just might naturally be in a place where you put all these supports in place. So now you feel okay being okay.

SPEAKER_02 18:37

Yeah. Oh my gosh, that's so true. Because I always say to her, But since I'm at him, I finally like now. I'm gonna tear up. I finally felt like I can breathe. Like it's so true. Like, yeah, total different. That's a major compliment, right?

SPEAKER_04 18:51

I've had worse things said about me. Yeah, I will take it.

SPEAKER_01 18:53

And that's why he's special. Yes. Yes, yes. Absolutely. Absolutely.

SPEAKER_04 18:57

For all those out there subscribe, click the little button down there right now. More great guests coming up next week. Oh, I do want to dive into the brain treatments. What led you both down this road?

SPEAKER_02 19:09

And I think I'm assuming you can wake up one day and like we're gonna open a brain treatment.

SPEAKER_00 19:13

Start a brain treatment clinic. Because it's way before you open the clinics, right? Oh, yeah. No, this started, you know, about a decade ago-ish. But I mean, yeah, I'd never thought, even a few years ago, if you said, hey, you're gonna own two brain treatment clinics, I would have said, Am I the guy? Yeah, you're insane, but you yeah, you do really good telling the story.

SPEAKER_03 19:31

I feel I've been saying this a lot recently, and we saw it on a billboard when we were driving, but I've been saying a lot, like, because we get all the imposter syndrome all the time.

SPEAKER_00 19:40

All the time.

SPEAKER_03 19:40

Right. And so I've been saying, like, you know, God doesn't call the qualified, he qualifies the called, right? And you just like, I feel like there were points in our lives, whether it was TBI pushed or PTSD pushed or you know, catastrophe or just goodness pushed, where we were just like, we can't do this. Like, we're just giving it up to you, Lord. We're submitting to your will. And that so much good came out of that. But Chris had gone back on active duty orders, ADOS orders, and he was actually at care coalition being like a warrior care rep, which for a little bit that worked well.

SPEAKER_00 20:13

It was actually a pretty cool gig because I I was still on a team with 20th group, but I was doing the care coalition. So I got the best of both worlds, like he's kind of awesome.

SPEAKER_03 20:21

But but he was like, he's so much calmer now. I don't know if it's age or grace or what it is. Like he had back surgery. Or his environment. His environment. He had back surgery when we were down there, and we had just had a baby. And they were like, You cannot hold the baby for 10 days. And so he was like, You do everything, I can't hold the baby. And I was like, Okay, whatever, that's fine. Like day one, they clear him and he's like, I'm going for a 10-mile run, I'll be back. And I was like, But you couldn't hold the baby yesterday.

SPEAKER_00 20:46

Yeah, I remember they asked me, they were like, Hey, as soon as, you know, like whatever it was, the time you can start doing normal things. Well, our normal things is not. So they asked me at the unit I was at, they were like, All right, you want to jump tomorrow? I was like, sure, you know, stupid.

SPEAKER_03 20:59

And just kind of his personality back then, and he was really go-go-go. He's been go-go-go since we met. Like, he was in the guard, but he was also like contracting State Department. Like down there, he was doing the warrior care thing. And what's so it's always been really go-go-go, and that worked out well for us. I think I was really independent, but like really felt anchored in the safety that he gave me. And it was, it was a good relationship blend.

How Their Son’s Autism Diagnosis Changed Everything

SPEAKER_03 21:24

So we moved down there, and our oldest son was turn was about to turn two, or he wasn't even two yet. He was a pretty typical kiddo meeting all of his milestones, and he regressed into nonverbal autism like that. It was overnight. And he had these dark circles, he was banging his head, which we later found out was like neuroinflammation and stuff like that. And in Florida, they you couldn't get enough therapy. You didn't need a diagnosis for anything. Tri care covered everything. They're like, You want sensory therapy, you want OT, PT, speech. You can have it. And so we I was going to all these therapies, it was great. And then we had this brilliant. idea.

SPEAKER_04 22:00

Was that helping?

SPEAKER_03 22:02

It was helping some with his regulation, but he did not, you know, he still couldn't talk.

SPEAKER_00 22:06

He's, you know, he couldn't do a lot of that stuff.

SPEAKER_03 22:08

Yeah. And I am a very much like, I think they call it like intuitive parenting style. So I just was constantly wearing this kid. And we didn't do babysitters or anything like that. So I was doing a lot of speech programs with him at home in addition to the speech he was going to. So he was very attached to me. And I had a hard time initially believing the diagnosis because I was like, well he interacts with me. He's just not talking. And then we had our younger son who's like just 18 months younger than Irish twins. Yeah, they're Irish twins. When Luke couldn't talk Liam would actually he would say well he means this and he'd be right every time it was crazy.

SPEAKER_02 22:42

My doctor and son did that as well. They were also 18 months apart and she would speak for Luke. Yeah. It was fascinating. And she was right.

SPEAKER_00 22:50

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 22:50

Yeah he was always right and Luke would just nod to it.

SPEAKER_03 22:52

So then because Liam would start he started talking at like one like we have a video of him Liam the younger son we have a video of him at 11 months old saying his ABCs at a Christmas party and all the you know the old aunts are like it was cute. So we decided to move back to New England to be closer to his family because we thought there'd be more resources. So we moved to a rural area in New England and then we and I started calling to make appointments like it has to be exactly the same. This is America same thing. No, it was like living in a third world country. State to state is so different what's available. So I just started with a speech therapist and was driving two hours each way. And I was getting like programs at home. We were doing stuff at home. We had gotten him a service dog who she was a horrible service dog. Really cute but like they retired her almost right away. It didn't work but like there's purpose for everything. So um one of the organizations that kind of helped direct us into getting this service dog was Task Force Dagger Foundation and they were phenomenal.

SPEAKER_05 23:50

They're amazing.

SPEAKER_03 23:51

Amazing I don't have enough good words to say about them. They're just incredible. One of the people who was leading at the time reached out to me and she said hey you know they're doing this thing called MERT therapy. It's targeted magnetic therapy. It's EEG guided we're doing it for the retired guys now they weren't treating active duty back then. She said they're treating autism off label why don't you just like check it out so at that point ABA had just started. So I went toward an ABA facility it was ABA? It's a behavioral therapy for kids and it's like the gold standard for kids on the spectrum. I own this clinic now so I have to be careful about what I say about ABA. ABA is definitely one of the things if you have a child on the spectrum that you should do with a trusted provider. But now because insurance pays for it it's pretty mass produced and some of the facilities like in any other therapeutic setting are not up to par. So we toured the only ABA facility up there it was dirty. It was nasty and they wanted me to drop him off for 40 hours a week with no parental involvement and he couldn't talk and I what age is he at this point?

SPEAKER_04 24:54

Probably three or four.

SPEAKER_03 24:56

He's like three or four. He's three and a half at this point and I was he could talk I wouldn't leave my child in that environment job right and I was like no and then I I come to find out later that some of these ABA centers, it's just like stimulation therapy. So if this situation presents you react like this. They don't internalize it. They don't really know what is happening. They just know to say hi you know and so some of the things can be really harsh there's a lot of very good ABA centers out there, but I don't think that this was one of them. And we were on the waiting list for pediatric neurology at Dartmouth for the diagnosis and they said you know sensory processing, autism spectrum, this and that. So you had this whole diagnostic panel it we had actually gone out to Mert, come back and in the middle and got the diagnosis. So he had a diagnosis of severe nonverbal autism.

The Autism Treatment That Changed Their Son’s Life

SPEAKER_03 25:44

And so we're out doing the Mert therapy part of the program is this like these simple things that people just don't do anymore. Yeah. Is get 30 minutes of sunlight every morning and it resets your circadian rhythms. And then you get a natural healthy cortisol spike about midday that tells your brain to create sleepy chemicals at nighttime, right? It's one of the simplest things that you can do for good healthy sleep. So every morning I would take them out to Newport Beach Pier and I would run from Newport Beach Pier to Balboa and back. And it's like a two mile run and I got to the end of it one day and he was so fussy. And I pulled him out of the stroller and I had given him the iPad and I took the iPad away and I said hey you don't want to go to the beach with me today? And he had not said a word to me in two years and he looked me right in the eyes and he goes I was busy today and I almost fell over so I pulled up my camera and I started recording him and I said you didn't want to go to the beach with me today I was busy today. Oh my gosh. He still has that attitude he does so that's where Mert therapy kind of started for us. And then I feel like these lay the there were so many layers of miracles there because Chris flew right out he started talking Did you believe it?

SPEAKER_00 26:47

No I I honestly didn't and when she told me about that I was like all right I you know I I need to come out there because you know same thing what we were told by the docs like this is not you know and at the time she went out there to California and I was thinking all right hey whatever to support but sounds kind of woo-woo whatever I flew out there. She picks me up at the airport still has doesn't say anything. It's cool we go to the hotel we're about to go for lunch we drop off the bags we're coming back and across the street from the hotel was like this motor pool bus thing you know school bus thing but there's like a brick wall you can only see the tops of the buses and he taps me on a leg and I'm like oh that's interesting. And he's like Dad is that a school bus and I was like it is buddy you know and it just tears and it's just like crazy like because I I was convinced that I don't know what what is going to happen to this kid when we pass.

SPEAKER_03 27:35

You know if they're telling me he's never going to talk he's you know this you just have to deal with it it's like I that's what they told us they said he's never going to talk right learn to live around this that's what the neurologists learn to live around this figure it out learn to live around this this is what it is. But I mean the the layers on this are interesting because at that point in time Chris was really struggling with a lot of stuff and going different places, seeking different things and we have like buzzwords in our society anxiety, depression, sadness. Right. But if like you and I sat down with a therapist and you're like I'm depressed and I said I'm depressed a lot of therapists or a psychiatrist your SSRI have it. Right. Like if it's a good therapist they're going to peel it back and maybe your depression looks like PTSD and maybe mine looks like a brain injury right like but they don't know unless they peel it back. So he was going in and they were just layering the meds and you feel kind of good and he feel kind of bad but he wasn't taking anything consistently and when he was taking it he was having a lot of issues.

Green Berets Opening Up About Trauma Around the Campfire

SPEAKER_03 28:28

So one night we're sitting around the Marriott Fate campfire with all these retired Delta guys and they're talking your version of an all secure at that time. Yeah yeah pretty much they were all grandpas and I love Luke loved them. I loved every single one they were just phenomenal guys. They're all going through Mart therapy and they're all doing it with this four year old at one point nonverbal kiddo, right? And there were wives there too who were going through the treatment with their husbands and it I just look now like how I was placed with them at those times to hear the other side of the story because when it imploded for us it gave me so much hope that it could be okay. They're sitting around one night and one of the guys is telling Chris like oh this is why I'm here this is what I was experiencing. And Chris is like young clean shaven running and gunning and he's like that's that's normal. That's totally normal. And the guy's like um I think you need to get your head scanned I think you have a TBI.

SPEAKER_00 29:18

You know and in my defense it was right and you were in a team room

Alcohol, Painkillers & the “Dark Years” After Service

SPEAKER_00 29:22

it it is kind of the norm. A lot of the you know the painkillers the alcohol like they just pause you there and go back to something that you said though.

SPEAKER_02 29:30

As you're saying this it's like bringing this thought more and more to the forefront. Can we talk about how special that environment is that you were in to have the people around you to support you.

SPEAKER_03 29:42

I talk to a lot of spouses now and I have that's what kind of led us into this was like spouses were reaching out to me online through different things and say and we always say like we'll talk about the superficial stuff that's like okay to talk about that doesn't really open the compartmentalization stuff. And then we'll talk about like we'll just generally say and like the dark side of things here, there and there. Sure. And we know what each other's talking about and we can kind of unpack those things without saying those things. But yeah if you said that to a typical therapist who didn't have a background in any of this they'd be like leave your husband yes leave him right now. Yeah. Chuck tail and run.

SPEAKER_04 30:16

Or they wouldn't believe it because I know for me personally when I retired from the military and she knows this I've said a few times at one point I was drinking a half gallon liquor a day. And other people would be like that's not possible. I as I was earning an Ivy League MBA from Cornell and I was working in a Fortune 5R company and they had no clue because it wasn't that he was a daytime continuous drinker like most alcoholics.

SPEAKER_02 30:39

It didn't start until he was off the clock and I witnessed it it went he consumed that much in a very short window of time.

SPEAKER_00 30:47

Six hours or so? It was like when I was doing my dark years it was nothing to be like I like I tell her and I think I've told other people it's 90% of my life I was either on a painkiller on alcohol or both. Both like it was just but I could still function and be like all right I'm not with that vacation right it's part of it.

SPEAKER_03 31:05

But like I have to say I've I'm a pretty intuitive person. I always have been I I think that most intuitive people I think a lot of that comes out of childhood trauma. Yeah we really learn how to emotionally monitor other people at a high level and I sensed something was off during like what we call the dark years. But at home everything was fine. Like it was picture perfect. And I attribute that a lot to your guys' training. Yeah. Like I do like you can be exactly who you need to be in that moment. But he was traveling enough that I wasn't getting the full picture but I knew something was off but everything was fine at home. So with my level of trauma I was like if everything's fine I'm just going to hold on to that.

SPEAKER_02 31:42

Yeah I had no idea how you want to pop that can open it was right right right exactly exactly because then it would just be like no everything's fine you're crazy like yeah they were all and then you'd kind of be forced to deal with your own traumas too a little bit. Yeah. Right.

SPEAKER_04 31:57

So obviously you saw how well this burt was happening and you were like

VA Programs, Medications & Finally Finding Real Healing

SPEAKER_04 32:02

that's all for me.

SPEAKER_00 32:02

I'm going to fix myself absolutely not no not at all not at all. It took still a lot of years and you know and I think everything came to a head like about 10 years ago now and I was like all right you know I I really need to change my ways alcohol pain meds just stopped everything. We, you know you know, we started working on ourselves. I was actually an inpatient at uh Tampa you started working on yourself. I had been through trauma therapy pretty pretty intently you finally caught up I I well I was not caught up yet. I was getting there.

SPEAKER_03 32:33

I had done some intensive trauma work right before we met which I think made us that's so fascinating. Same but so he started working on him and then we worked on us together.

SPEAKER_00 32:40

Yeah yeah so I was inpatient at the prep program at the VA in Tampa I was there for I don't know almost 10 weeks you know meds meds but it during while I was there they tried to take me off the meds to see whatever and it was like bad. I was throwing water bottles at nurses I was calling her up at like you know one in the morning hey you need to go downstairs and check the basement for snakes she was like what are you there was no snakes in our basement. Yeah but it was just like I was checked just in case just in case because you never know old boy might have new intuition that he doesn't know.

SPEAKER_03 33:12

No he had me filling in cracks in the basement with the great stuff and I'm just doing it. This is not even like I'm in Tampa.

SPEAKER_00 33:18

She's in Virginia and she's doing it whatever that's that's again saint you know they got me on more meds I think I was I don't know 10 or 12 I think it was 12 at the time. So I thought all right I'm you know I'm living life but man I had put on 40 pounds I was just kind of just coasting. I was just there I was meet with eyes you know I didn't really have feeling ups and downs. And then in 2023 clinic out in Denver Brain Performance center out there by Sean great dude.

SPEAKER_03 33:46

He's a SEAL.

SPEAKER_00 33:47

He's a SEAL guy.

SPEAKER_03 33:48

Good friend of ours he and his wife run that clinic they're amazing.

SPEAKER_00 33:51

Amazing people they said hey we're doing Murder out here come on out because we can take TriCare now bring your son I was you know being a good dad I was trying to be a good dad. I was like oh it's more for him every brick in the wall matters. So we go out there and we're out there for 12 weeks and you know I don't notice anything the first three weeks. By the second or third week I noticed I was like crying randomly like so it would be him and I just driving and it'd be like why am I like tearing up?

SPEAKER_04 34:16

Because you were going through the treatment.

SPEAKER_00 34:18

Because I was going through the treatment too. So we both were we would go there as you know father and son duo. Go ahead.

SPEAKER_03 34:22

I'm gonna interject right there week three when you do TMS or you do the more targeted MERT therapy things start to bubble up those compartments start to empty. That's why at our clinic we partnered with an OT program that makes that easier but it's typical you'll start crying or feeling things you're like what the heck is this and so go ahead because that's what he was experiencing.

SPEAKER_00 34:39

So you know didn't really notice too much but it was by week five or six and I think you had said hey why don't you do the more keto-ish diet too while you're doing it I was like

Sleeping Normally Again After Years of PTSD & Hypervigilance

SPEAKER_00 34:48

cool. But like around week six I noticed that you know I was still the guy that was doing melatonin, Tylenol PM, NyQuil and still taking an hour and a half, two hours to fall asleep, waking up through the night I noticed that I'm falling asleep within 15, 20 minutes of laying down and I'm sleeping through the night and I'm remembering dreams. I didn't remember dreams I was like that's what's up yeah yeah exactly. I also noticed too like we're in Denver and I'm not white knuckling the steering wheel during rush hour and I'm like okay this is interesting. So it's those small things that are adding up so I call her up I was like hey I'm gonna try to come off these meds.

SPEAKER_03 35:20

And I said you're gonna work with the neurologist to do that.

SPEAKER_00 35:22

Yeah because we had that experience in Tampa. And so I started coming off you know a little at a time and now it's been over two years with not a single med. And because of that it's like 35 pounds just dropped off like didn't change anything.

SPEAKER_03 35:35

It just went away because you know metabolism wasn't slowing down and it's like oh wow we're also we're not anti-medication it's needed at certain points for certain things. But if he doesn't need to have it we don't want to do it. So at that because it changes the brain composition at that point, right? Yeah. And so I mean there was a lot in between those phases. I think when he when we first really figured out what was going on with the TBI stuff with him, I went all in on caregiver mode. Like all in. And then when he was out there for me, I mean this was years later after TBI lots of meds let's forced retirement at 18 and a half years like that was such an identity thing for him. Like it was so difficult but he just couldn't continue the way it was with what was going on just mentally with that stuff. And I mean when he went to drill and army stuff he was really with it present go get her but then he would come home and he'd fall apart you know in ways that I wasn't used to seeing that so for years in the beginning of it it was like how do I fortify him how do I like get him to the point where he's stable and then how do I get Luke to the point where he's stable and stuff like that. And then after Denver it was kind of like okay like now now I can be okay. I can be okay everybody's okay I can be okay. And that was that was kind of a a phase for

SGB From Dr. James Lynch

SPEAKER_03 36:51

me we want to give a very special thank you to Dr.

SPEAKER_02 36:54

James Lynch for sponsoring this episode.

SPEAKER_04 36:58

The work him and Jody his wife do at their clinic to do an SGB still a ganglion block yes I said it providing relief to those who have suffered from anxiety and trauma and giving people hope to a better life. Check them out at their website drjameslinch.com hit them up let them know Herb and Corey sent you their way.

SPEAKER_03 37:20

Sure just like coming back into my own without because I'm a big believer like men should lead and women should submit behind them. You know the men, the man is the lead, you know the head, the woman is the neck like you know you lead the direction.

Marriage, Masculinity & Learning How to Fight Fair

SPEAKER_03 37:32

And I was able to fall back into that role which is a much more peaceful role for me than being like the lead.

SPEAKER_00 37:38

Yeah like during those dark times and even the first years of recovery like I was not leading at all and you know I tell everybody I have no you know no quantity I was a POS you know trying not to say the the words because um but yeah it it just was so for me to be expected to lead yeah it sounded great in my head but I just couldn't do it.

SPEAKER_02 37:54

I just could not let's pause on that too of like you're when you're saying that you're not saying lose boundaries you're not saying be less of a strong female now. Yeah you're just waiting like I compare it to dancing because you're if you're going to both lead at the same time you're you know clumsy into one another but if you truly embrace having a lead and you are the support person, then you're gracefully moving together.

SPEAKER_04 38:27

Absolutely love that analogy that's a good one. That's gold star for you today that's a good one. Thanks.

SPEAKER_03 38:32

And and we lead in our certain areas right like I got you know kids lunches I got financial planning I got this I got that and we we just were at all secure foundations can't come front phenomenal program. Shout out to the Saturn they're pretty amazing and we were doing low class on breath work and the premise of the class was teaching couples how to fight fairly and we were really surprised that not a lot of couples knew that you had to have certain rules and I didn't like fight fairly I didn't like that you got to dominate because I I was taught to win. Yeah me too or to die.

SPEAKER_02 39:04

Winner died and I was losing when I was winning and interestingly from my own traumas I had been taught to surrender and it's a whole different like hurt that then comes and then you realize like what are we doing? We're just you know you have to learn how to actually have constructive conversations.

SPEAKER_03 39:25

Yeah yeah and we also went into there which I think was really good things that we started doing was like creating a plan for your life and your marriage like you have to sit down and like map these things out you know you have to have a good plan. So like where are we going to be in a year? What's our plan for retirement? Are we going to live in a cabin are we going to live by the beach or we're gonna stay in our house like if you have different ideas about that and you haven't come together on a cohesive plan, you're gonna be in a weird place when you go retire.

SPEAKER_00 39:50

It's amazing how many people don't do that and then five years down the road and they're like they realize they want completely different things.

SPEAKER_03 39:56

Yeah and that's why you see a lot of divorce right post service right you just had different plans. So like we need to sync up on these things now when we're both willing to work on it and things like that.

SPEAKER_04 40:06

So things change but things change but we we constant for us we've done that and then we reassess hey what it let's but you have to talk about it.

SPEAKER_03 40:14

Yeah you have to talk about it just assume right when you have a plan you're on the same trajectory you're like okay we're gonna do these five points to get there then boundaries doesn't become as much as a thing anymore. Because if you have a strong man who knows the direction that you both want to go, he's gonna support and uphold your boundaries. Yeah. If you don't know where you're at and you don't know what you're doing and everybody's trying to get to their optimal place but it's different then you're violating boundaries. Right. Right. But if you have this good flow of communication you treat your spouse like they're your best friend and they're your teammate and this is where we're going together then that then he's gonna he will tell me like hey I I don't feel like like I'm being as I should be for to support this part of your journey. Yeah. Like he'll uphold my boundaries for me and he's phenomenal at that now we had one blip in that I was pregnant with our first son and he was like so I'm gonna go to Sodic and I was like I'm I'm due when you're planning to go. I was like could we could could I was like can they do could they do another date?

SPEAKER_00 41:11

Like and he was like what you don't turn down a school you don't you can't because then you'll never get us that opportunity we were able to flex dates though. Yeah that's the only school I really wanted to go to in the army was Sodic and then you know and she I went you know even I was very supportive basic special forces sniper course for those out there.

SPEAKER_03 41:28

If you need a speaker brand partnership opportunities hit us up liberty speaks.com you know what's crazy is so our office manager for the clinic we hired him and he's a great guy and I met him at the range I was prefacing that for something go ahead so I so he was one of the instructors at the range that I go to has like it's like karate classes like you white team, red team black team you graduate through and so he's one of the instructors. And so he looks a little bit older stuff like that. So I was in the office and I was doing something and we had a patient who was in Mert and week three things are bubbling up he like gets real quiet in the chair and he's like so so 911. So I lost like nine friends in the tower that day. And you know we're just like holding space for him just having a chat about it you know just walking him through the journey just you know getting to witness that which is incredible we get to witness so many healing journeys pretty profound. So afterwards I walk into the ops manager's office and I was like where were you 911 he's like oh they put it on the TV in like third grade classroom and I was like shut the front door third grade he's like where were you?

SPEAKER_02 42:36

I was like college. Yeah college Yeah it's those moments where you're like oh I'm thinking of older growing up now what the heck yeah that's how you feel about the websites and the art thing yeah yeah you're like wait where are the new adults this can't be right you need to go back to school that's how yeah who trusted us to do this that's so funny.

SPEAKER_04 42:57

Yeah so you went through treatment yeah there's a leap to hey I went through some treatment and I will say impressive y'all are highly educated.

SPEAKER_00 43:06

You're finishing a master's

From Johns Hopkins to Opening Brain Treatment Clinics

SPEAKER_00 43:08

yeah this would be my second master's be done in December time frame.

SPEAKER_03 43:12

You're working on a PhD and have a couple masters or right of my Yeah I still can't believe that this is who I get to be but yeah I did my undergrad and my graduate degrees in ethics around like law enforcement management style. So I have undergrad and graduate degrees from Johns Hopkins in that. Heard of them before wow I just finished another master's at Catholic University. I did I had a full ride on that one uh my focus was homelessness and veteran populations and then I'm starting uh a PhD in the fall in psychology and development that 15 year old girl oh my gosh I would tell her it's okay to be okay.

SPEAKER_01 43:55

I would so good

SPEAKER_04 44:00

You all have lived it. You are just academics. Like oh, but I love that you're getting the academics to go on to it because now it shuts everyone up because you cover both sides of lived in the textbook. But then you take a leap and go, hey, we now run on two brain treatment.

SPEAKER_00 44:18

Yeah, it was it was not, you know, and there was never our goal that was it was discussed briefly now and then and like wouldn't it be really cool like years prior, but then it just died out. But we, while I was in Denver, she was still in Virginia, we were on a call with a couple of the uh people that actually doing Luke's treatment at the time, but now they had moved up in the company, so you know, it was cool. And they were talking to us, you know, on the phone call, just like, hey, this is what it would look like if you really wanted to do it. And I'm sitting there and I'm in the living room with Luke, and I swear it wasn't him. Something I hear out this ear, like, you have to do this. And I was like, and at that point, it was so just like vividly clear. I didn't hear the rest of the conversation at all. Like they could have told me, like, hey, you want seven million dollars, and I'd be like, uh-huh. Uh-huh. And so we hung up and she called me up and she was like, Well, what do you think? And I was like, We're just we're just gonna do it. We don't know why. We're we're just gonna do it. You know, neither one of us had ever wanted to own a business. That was not our thing. We wanted to, you know, do nine to five, clock in, clock out, then you know, leave and go do better things. But it was really one of those things, like, all right, dude, you got yourself back together, you're getting there, still working on yourself, good job. Now get off your ass.

SPEAKER_02 45:29

And at the time you were in a very comfortable position, right? In corporate America, making comfortable position money. And you knew without a doubt, that was the next step.

SPEAKER_03 45:41

Chris was working in government contracting. Now, now, like before he had done some fun guy stuff in government contracting, but at this point, he was a project manager working full-time from home, making very good money. Yeah. And we were in a good spot with that. And we just felt like this incredible call to service. And I feel like that's my prayer every morning when I'm praying with the kids. It's like, how can I serve better and teach me to submit to that? Because, like, you know, we get in our own way with it a lot. So yeah, it's just how can we serve better? So when we said we would open this clinic, we were like, we absolutely want to open these MARC clinics, but we want to add in the other things that helped people too, because it's been there's no magic pill, no magic bullet for anything. So for us, it was really good occupational therapy, it was primitive reflux integration, it was mental health counseling, it was getting with a good psychiatric practitioner to say, hey, these meds work for you. This doesn't work for you. And so we've been able to really bring that all together. But the the catalyst for it is Wave Neuro. So when we first did MERT therapy, there was one, you know, operation out in California and they had like two locations. And then Wave Neuro came in and bought the tech in the company. And like Fred Walk is leading that, just like they're incredibly moral, like just amazing people that want to serve. Like, how can we serve better? And so they're doing all these things behind the scene to make this more accessible and readily available to people. And it's just incredible for us to be aligned with people who have the same moral footing in life. Like, how can we help? Let's get out of our own way. And how can we help people be better people? And it's just been incredible to work with them. So they made it so you could open these clinics and we're just doing it.

SPEAKER_02 47:19

You all have gone one step further and then partnered with other people in the community, right? Can you tell us about that?

SPEAKER_00 47:25

Yeah. So a lot of like since I started full-time is you know, doing veteran outreach, but also just working with other organizations, Task Force Dagger Foundation being one of them. But that was one of my things. Like, so we talked to Wave Neuro and it was like, all right, cool, there's people out there, but then talking to all these other organizations that are out there, you know, Warriors Heart being another one, hearing all their stories and how they're just doing it to try to help people, the faith in humanity has gone up tremendously. And I I was coming from a point where I had none just a couple years ago. It was just like, yeah, people are great, but they're not.

SPEAKER_05 47:54

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 47:54

But just to work with all these organizations, just finding all these people that are either just starting out and hadn't made it big, like a task force dagger or warriors foundation, that just are just trying to help as many people as they can. People like yourselves, you know, they're just out there just getting these stories out there. And it's like, yeah, this is absolutely amazing because you don't hear about that stuff when you go on mainstream news. You just don't. It's always like, how can we scare you today? This is it doesn't sell. Yeah, exactly, right?

SPEAKER_04 48:20

Blood, sex and drugs or whatever they say.

SPEAKER_03 48:23

I'd like to throw a caveat into that, and it's something that we've recently become more passionate about is the veterans, the military, the level in which things have changed in the past 10 years in terms of like talking about PTSD, acknowledging TBI, it has become culturally acceptable in these communities to get help. Yeah, good. And there's so much resources for it. Like if you're struggling even a little bit, you feel a little bit off, email me. I'll find you somebody who can get you some help if it's not going to be get me be me giving you the help,

Why Veterans Get Help Easier Than Police Officers

SPEAKER_03 48:53

right? But in law enforcement, firemen, we're trying to extend our outreach to them and make it more accessible to them by taking insurance and and doing TMS for them and the other things that we do. When I was law enforcement officer, I always tell this story. I think it's funny, but like nobody called me and was like, hey, it's the best day of my life. Do you want a cupcake? You want to come hang out? They call you because it is the worst possible moment of their life. And often they hate you. They hate you for showing up. Your job is to end that expediently so that you can go to the next person's worst possible moment and be hated for being there because they have an idea of how you they want you to end this situation for them. And it typically doesn't align with the law or what's right. Right. You know? And so these guys, the minute and and gals, the minute that they say something's wrong or I feel a little bit off, of course it's wrong.

SPEAKER_04 49:43

Can I say something real quick though? You do that, like you said, worst day, worst part of someone's life, then you go do the next call, worst, and then you just go home. Right. Where we would like, we go to our bunk, we at least get a little time away. We don't come back to real life. Right.

SPEAKER_03 49:57

I'll tell you a story about that for sure. But we want to make it accessible to them because if they say something's wrong, boom, there's your gun in your badge, and you're put on this weird thing. And then there's a bigger stigma about it, right? When I started the police academy and they said, you know, why are you here? Everybody wrote down, like, I want to help people. And I believe they genuinely did. But over time, there becomes a numbness that translates into your life. And so when I was like, it was before I met Chris, I was like 22, 23, used to have, I don't know if they still do this, but you have an apartment

The Difference Between Combat Trauma & Police Trauma

SPEAKER_03 50:28

deal. So I got a free apartment to live where I worked. Whoa. And my cruiser had to be out front, I had to walk around, check lights, stuff like that. But it was like not a good area. It was, it was a really bad area. And so one night I was in my apartment and I heard all this yelling and screaming outside. And neighbor here was having like a side chickover from this apartment over here, right? And so he had her in the middle of the courtyard and he stabbed her through the arm with this giant, like Rambo knife, right? It took off. And so I went out, put a tourniquet on her arm, like did all the things. She lived, right? She got me this cute little box. I still have it, because that she probably wouldn't have lived if I hadn't been living there, right? And so took off. We I ended up being there when we locked the guy up, like two weeks later. And they always say, like, the criminals you gotta watch out for are the older seasoned ones, because they're not emotional. They don't act, they're they don't react, they respond. And as we were like locking him up, he looked at me real quiet and he said, Hey, I watch you walk your daughter out to go to school every morning. Oh, and I was like, Hey, look at that. So, like everything changed. I moved out the next week, like everything changed in my mind then because I was just young and like going, trying to save the world, stuff like that. But I still at that point was just like, oh, we'll just move. I didn't go in and get any like trauma therapy or anything like that. I just, I just repl replanted. Repotted the plant, right? Yeah, yeah. Yeah, and I was like, and move on. And then later I had to do a lot of trauma therapy so I could start feeling again. Because I would leave the worst calls and then, you know, go to her first communion prep.

SPEAKER_01 52:01

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 52:02

And like you said, I think that's the biggest thing. You know, when we left that arena, it was an ocean away. It was gone. It was away from us. But, you know, a lot of these guys and gals, it's in their backyards in their community. They see it every single day, and everyone hates them for doing the job. There's so many organizations that are out there doing stuff for veterans, and that's great. And I'm glad they're out there.

SPEAKER_04 52:21

Tons. You we could start and name them and like run out in the thousand 50,000, 60,000. So many. So how many focused on our law enforcement, our first responders, fire department, medical services.

SPEAKER_00 52:36

They're they're out there. There's not a lot, but they're out there, but you don't hear about them because you know what sells, right? You know, people, oh, I can get behind, you know, the American soldier. That's great. But cops and fire, uh, you know, it's kind of iffy, but it's like that's sad because it's like these people, like you said, they just want to help.

SPEAKER_03 52:50

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 52:51

They're just doing the job.

SPEAKER_03 52:52

And it's like And they don't realize it's a boiling the frog type of thing. They don't realize that they're getting number or overexposed. I remember when I was first on, I had this kid who was robbing UPS drugs, right? He was young. And one of us, he somehow he hurt his foot. So we wound up at the hospital. And I was like, he was in cuffs and I was like hand feeding him crackers like I would my own child. And this seasoned cop was like, you're not gonna be doing that in six months. And I was like, I will always be doing this. Yeah, sure as could be. I that level of like, you know, because you're just so overexposed to things.

SPEAKER_02 53:26

Yeah. It's fascinating too. I never really thought of it, but like those that you were engaged with, and you're, you know, the bad guys, if you will, that were overseas.

SPEAKER_04 53:34

When you leave, I was not worried about them coming and finding my family.

SPEAKER_02 53:38

Right.

SPEAKER_04 53:39

Just exactly fair.

SPEAKER_02 53:41

Yeah. And your brain is now telling you to just whitewash that. Our PTSD is very different. Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 53:49

Go ahead. I was gonna say, as a cop, her war zone is her home. It's it's where she lives.

SPEAKER_03 53:54

It's we will walk into a restaurant still to this day. He'll look around, see if there's like somebody who he considers an immediate threat. But I know the most civilized person can pop off wrong at any moment. And I'm always kind of like, you know, I've done a lot of the treatment and stuff like that. And I do view my hypervigilance as a superpower now because I'm aware we're gonna get out of there. I'm gonna listen to my gut. If something feels off, we're going. It's just it's on the forefront. Whereas before I did all these treatments and therapy and stuff, it did impact my life because I couldn't do certain things.

SPEAKER_01 54:25

Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 54:25

But like you know, I I grew up where I policed. My like one of my first shifts, the guys were all in the squad room, they're like, Oh, this chase we just got into, yeah, blah, blah, blah. And they're like throwing through the pictures from the thing, the polarized. I was like, oh man, that's my cousin. Yeah, there he is.

SPEAKER_02 54:43

Yeah. Yeah. That adds a whole nother level of it. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah.

SPEAKER_04 54:48

Speaking of treatments that you've been through, but the clinic. So we we know Mert. Yeah. What else is

Hyperbaric Oxygen Therapy, Neurofeedback & Functional Medicine

SPEAKER_04 54:56

there?

SPEAKER_00 54:56

So hyperbaric chamber is another one that we do. Occupational therapy, more specifically, our spin program. I'll let you talk to that because you created it. Go figure. Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 55:06

When Luki was struggling and we didn't have access to therapy, I basically just started doing all these online certifications, traveling around the country, getting certified. And then once we moved to back to Northern Virginia, we partnered up with one of the most phenomenal OTs I've ever met in my life. And we were like, how can we take all these elements of just brain balance and miello method and cold laser therapy and really getting interdependent systems working together again for best neurological health? How can we make that into one program and then also make it available to insurance? Because it's expensive. It's expensive.

SPEAKER_02 55:38

And let me stop you there. You're not a nonprofit, which God knows we have enough of those in the world. So talk to us about why you made that specific decision to be able to work with insurance, I'm assuming.

SPEAKER_03 55:53

Because this for us, it's not about how much money we can make about this or how many people we can churn through. It's about like truly impacting lives and making sure that people have access to care. If something had happened, God forbid, to my daughter when I was, you know, 15, 16-year-old mom, it I would have just gone through the standard ABA. And then maybe she would have made some progress, but not nearly the progress she could have made if all of these really in-depth therapies were there. And I think about like my journey through law enforcement and retiring on PTSD and Chris's journey. And I just thought, like, there were so many times where we were just throwing things at a wall, like see what'll stick. And it really became apparent that it's a multifaceted approach to healing with anything. Yeah. And so we brought together everything we knew would work and we made it accessible. And that was really just like, how can we serve people?

SPEAKER_00 56:44

And that's why we talk to all these other organizations as well, right? Because we don't we don't have all the answers and nobody does. But if we are in with other people that are doing the things that we can't, I mean, that's perfect.

SPEAKER_02 56:54

And we can just be like, hey, like SGB, for instance, our friends that do the still like gang clean blocks. Exactly. And they rely on those of you that are doing the other pieces of the puzzle.

SPEAKER_00 57:03

Exactly. Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 57:04

Because if you find your one thing, right, you can keep chasing it. But if you keep chasing that one thing, you have to know that you're lugging some bags behind you. You gotta unpack them. You gotta unpack them in an appropriate way and then the right venue. Yeah, absolutely. Yeah.

SPEAKER_04 57:19

Mert HBO hyperbaric oxygen therapy. We saw you do like drug screen, not drug screening panels, but the blood screening panels.

SPEAKER_00 57:31

Yeah, the uh functional health labs. That's another one that's actually really big because we and they can get that sent to their home? They yeah. So a lot of the time they'll get it, and they might have, you know, the person to draw blood have to come to their house. That's what we did when we did it. But I mean, those are money. Like 10 out of 10 stars.

Toxic Exposure, Burn Pits, Lyme Disease & Brain Health

SPEAKER_00 57:47

Yeah, it's not fun to do because I mean there's a lot of stuff you're like, I have to really do this. But I mean, when I did mine, they found so much stuff that you know, they found Lyme disease, they found that I was toxic on lead, which made sense, but they also found that I was toxic on mercury.

SPEAKER_04 58:00

Like you were eating thermometers.

SPEAKER_00 58:02

That's what my like the exact thing, like my doctor was like, I don't know how you're not glowing right now. Like, I've never seen this before, someone so high in mercury levels, you know, testosterone levels, vitamin deficiencies, methylation process, like you talked about earlier. So all of these things, and that helps us too when we go through MIRT, that we find that when people start getting that stuff stabilized before going through treatment, they see a lot more better results as they're going through treatment. So we try to do that with a lot of our veterans that are on TriCare coming in. Help them get that stuff stabilized so they can get better results as they go.

SPEAKER_03 58:34

And that's not siloed. So let's like break that down. If you are toxic on mercury, your brain is not functioning well. If you've had a lot of burn pit exposures and your metabolics and your methylations off, and you're not pushing these things out, you're gonna feel awful. Yeah, it's all connected. It's gonna be disrupted. Right. Right. So you're not gonna feel good. But also, if your vitamin A and your vitamin D are tanked, your your testosterone is gonna be really low. So these things are not independent. It's all these interdependent systems, and we're trying to weave that together. We also have a psychiatric nurse practitioner. So the guys who maybe are on meds who want to taper that or find out genetically, is this the right medication for me? I did that. Yeah, she can do that. And then she also That's great.

SPEAKER_02 59:12

They just took a little Q-tip, swap the inside of my mouth, off you go. And what do you know? Miraculously, we found the right medicine that worked for me.

SPEAKER_03 59:20

There you go. And she also does IV ketamine therapy. We found her through Task Force Jagger Foundation. She's pretty cool. Yeah. What else do we do? Do mental health therapy.

SPEAKER_00 59:27

IV infusions.

SPEAKER_03 59:28

IV infusions. We have a pretty amazing pediatrician on staff, and I just love her. And so a lot of our guys will come in and they'll be like, just help my kid. And we're like, okay, but how do we teach you guys to co-regulate so we're all helping your kid? Right. And then usually the kiddo will go through some of the stuff, and then dad or mom will come through TMS or MERT therapy and kind of do the different things.

SPEAKER_02 59:49

We actually talked a little bit about this, about like these two, for instance. It's like the more you become aware through your child of like, wait, this that I'm creating from my own environment that I'm putting them in, then causes that pause and then causes you to do some self-reflection of like how can I give them a better environment? Yeah. And that, you know, has really been a catalyst for for Herb's journey as well. That's awesome.

SPEAKER_00 1:00:14

Nutritional coaching.

SPEAKER_03 1:00:15

We do some nutritional coaching.

SPEAKER_00 1:00:17

Neurofeedback, we're starting soon.

SPEAKER_03 1:00:19

We're starting traditional neurofeedback soon. So Mert will tell the waves like you belong here. Like, this is where you belong to function best. So, you know, ATP is like the currency of the cell, and we want to lease, we want to use those least currency to function as probably and neurofeedback will strengthen the waves in those areas. We're getting ready to start a pain protocol called Magstem for an alternative to medication for pain therapy. Um Dr. Josh is our doc on staff, amazing doctor, also from the special operations community, and he's a pain specialist. So double bonus.

SPEAKER_02 1:00:49

He's like, She does more than just hand out the Advil. Yeah, exactly. Motrin, Motrin, my apologies. Motrin.

SPEAKER_03 1:00:56

Yeah. Very stoic, but very practical. Like, well, of course, you feel like you eat cupcakes all day. No, like I've never heard him say that. Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 1:01:03

But he he does. He tells you how it is.

SPEAKER_03 1:01:04

He tells you how it is, and we love him to do that. Yeah. Yeah.

SPEAKER_04 1:01:08

Listening program too, right? There's yes, that is part of it.

SPEAKER_00 1:01:11

Or is that fall into something? Um, well, it is part of the spin program, but it is also another thing that yeah.

SPEAKER_03 1:01:16

We added it in because typically, if you go to a functional doctor, like they're going to recommend that. So we put it in the spin program so we can build OT for it, but also so that you can have a chance to try it out and then you can buy it from us and take it home. But it's really good. I think with Luke, Luke's had several iterations of the MERT therapy. And each time he had it, it was like walking up the stairs with the lights off and the light would come on. You never know what you're gonna get. We always got something. But I always did the listening program for six weeks before he went for MERT therapy. And the results, I felt like it just like made him like super results every time. Like one time we saved up for a while and because kiddo is our cash pay, it's off label. And we got we're able to do two more weeks of Mert. So we took the whole family out. We're doing two more weeks because they were still only doing it in California. And then we were waiting to get on an airplane and he had a coloring sheet and he was coloring within the lines. His like it for us, it was just such a huge deal that one he was even conceptualizing coloring, he wasn't doing it before. And then we came home and they're like, he doesn't qualify for some of his IEP anymore. And we were like, Because he's yes, yeah, that should be the goal, right? But I think the listening program really helped with that because listening program is specially recorded music, and it helps the way that you're hearing me right now is air conduction, and the way I hear myself is bone conduction. And that's why when you hear recording yourself, you're like, why do I sound so different? That's why. And so the listening program specially records this music so that it will both on bone and air conduction stimulate different areas of the brain and like neurofeedback, strengthen them. That's like a mini workout for the brain, but you're listening to classical music. Another thing that I think is really interesting, the listening program that we use for the veterans is uh the in-time version, and in time is rhythmic drum beats. And they did studies and they found that with rhythmic drum beats, it really puts you in the same place that like meditation would put you in. So that's really cool. Yeah. Yeah.

SPEAKER_04 1:03:07

Your question, champ.

SPEAKER_02 1:03:10

Um that's the bottom C. Thank you. I was like, wait a minute, we've kind of bounced around.

SPEAKER_00 1:03:16

Yeah, we've bounced around.

The Most Rewarding Part of Helping Veterans Heal

SPEAKER_02 1:03:18

So for you all, what's been the best part of this?

SPEAKER_00 1:03:21

I would say it's it's seeing all the people. So, and I I'm trying to think of how to say this without giving away too many stories. So we had a family come in and they had one of their kids who had a tough time reading. And, you know, they were saying, like, hey, I gotta tell you, the mom pulled me aside, like, you know, my kid was just reading, and I was kind of like, oh wow. And then he started laughing like almost hysterically, and she was like, What's wrong? Like, you alright? Like, what's so funny? She he was just like, Why I I can't believe I'm actually reading this. And then he started, you know, tearing up just to hear those, you know, it seems so small, like, all right, so the kid, but it's like it's so powerful because I know what we went through with our kid just to give that hope and to give other people, they start getting hope, and it's like, oh wow, maybe you know, this is a thing. To me, that's been like you know, worth more than any dime we've ever made doing this. It's just been absolutely incredible to hear some of those stories and see some of the differences of people they come in, and then you know, six to twelve weeks later, whatever, they're like they're just talkative, they seem more hopeful, they're brighter. And it's like when you first see them, they're just very just you know, flat. That has been like absolutely amazing to see. And just to be able to be part of that is just like it's it's overwhelming almost. And like, you know, we we talk about you know, imposter syndrome, like really, like this is but it's it's been incredible. It really has.

SPEAKER_03 1:04:43

We've had a lot of veteran stories that just feel like miraculous, yeah. But that's not us doing that. They were called to us for a reason. We brought this together for a reason. And I just say like all the time, like it's pretty profound that we get to witness this, right? Right. And so we're always trying to add different things in, but also continue to cultivate what we've created for people's best outcomes. But guys who say they like felt empty before and now they feel like they're alive, right? Like it's pretty amazing just to watch people through that and not watch people through it, but also give them skills and tools and things like an alpha stim unit instead of a, you know, a Klansopam, right? Give them tools that they can use in their practical everyday life to continue to help themselves and to help their marriage and their relationship with their children. It's just really cool that we've gotten to be witnesses in that. And I'm really, really blessed about that.

SPEAKER_04 1:05:41

I think it's cool. Like I think of it instantly, you're helping families because, like, even if it's only the kid or the parent, whoever, yeah, that then affects the family. We've talked about it this whole time. No, how's that change how that family interacts with the rest of the broader family and the community and work and I mean you're talking. And it starts rippling. Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 1:06:01

Yeah. Big time.

SPEAKER_04 1:06:02

And it's just like you're you touch a lot of it's not just one person that is getting treatment and getting better. It is it ripples.

SPEAKER_00 1:06:11

And that's kind of what our mindset was going into it when we first said, like, all right, we're gonna do this. It wasn't like, hey, we're gonna build all these clinics here, because that it was never like, you know, my whole and hers too, and we agreed on it, our mindset was like, you know, if we, you know, help one veteran, you know, put the gun down and go back with his family, or help one kid find his words like our son, like this thing can go bankrupt, it doesn't matter. That was that was worth it.

SPEAKER_03 1:06:36

Yeah. So it's watching the rate of veteran suicides climb, like just just watching those tickers climb, you know, on the visual graphics that you see on social media and stuff like that. Like our family has been personally impacted with that. And just watching it climb, you know that there's something more to this, right? I was in an interview panel with a bunch of other their psychologists, and they're like, they're so sad that they went to war. And I was like, oh, wait a second. Yeah, they're not sad that they went to war. They're sad that they're not at war and they don't have purpose and direction and structure anymore, but they don't want the structure that the military was doing. They want to, they want to have that in their own lives. And that leap is hard. And by the way, they're loaded with toxins because of the burn pits and the different exposures in the military and this TBI stuff. Like, this is kind of newer for this generation, this iteration of it, right? And PTS, like we've heard it was who was it was just saying recently, there's no PTSD without pre-stress disorder, right?

SPEAKER_04 1:07:37

I know Tyler Gray, one of our folks at Liberty Speaks, he's been saying it there has to be a pre-stress disorder because otherwise you don't get the post. Right. It's true. And it's true.

SPEAKER_03 1:07:48

And I said that to them and they were all like blown away. They're like, you think that they really missed the purpose of being there? And I was like, Yeah, I live with it.

SPEAKER_02 1:07:55

And they've actually proven that the brain has been, you know, responsive to that environment. So your brain is now expecting, you know, those indoor friends. And when you're not getting that, you know, heightened ability to respond to things, your brain starts going, okay, where else can I create caught chaos to create that environment? So when that doesn't get met, then the brain, you know, makes other choices and oftentimes, you know, leads to those.

SPEAKER_04 1:08:24

I think it's often especially with all veterans, not all are the same race. Everyone's there's some commonalities and there's some differences, and it's just interesting. People, right? People are interesting to me. And like it's just a segment of people.

SPEAKER_03 1:08:39

Yeah. I would like to throw this other thing in there. And ILADS is doing great research on this. There's a phenomenal researcher, Dr. Bransfield, who does a great talk on anger and Lyme disease and how it's endemic and the deployment and training areas. And these guys will do all these treatments, all these treatments, and start to feel better and then crash and their joints will be achy and they'll have chronic pain. And nobody thinks to the end to test them for Lyme disease. So that's one thing that we're trying to test for more because a lot of the symptoms of Lyme disease, it's called it's become a catch-all bucket for a lot of different vector-borne illnesses. A lot of those symptoms mimic PTSD and TBI. So are those things on board? Yes. But is this making it so you can't heal it? Right. So it's one of the things that we really are trying to look at as broadly as we can in the clinic and get as much training as we can because it's not typically as easy in these chronic conditions that have gone on for a long time. So we've really just tried to like hit it from this whole person angle. Like, how can we truly help you figure out what you need to heal?

SPEAKER_04 1:09:38

It's amazing. We're big believers in it. Is anything surprised you, or maybe you think people misunderstand about what the work you're doing?

SPEAKER_02 1:09:46

I have a question. She's got a face up ready. Like, do people go like this is gonna be some hippy-dippy, like nonsense?

SPEAKER_00 1:09:54

I think there's a lot of veterans that come in with that, but a lot of the people that we talk to, they're at least willing to give it a try because a lot of times they've tried everything else.

SPEAKER_02 1:10:01

Or did they assume you're gonna push all the medications like one or the other?

SPEAKER_00 1:10:07

Yeah, I don't know if they're expecting medications. I think it it usually by the time we see people, they're they've done all the things. Yeah. And so they're like, all right, I this kind of sounds woo-woo, but tell me about it.

SPEAKER_03 1:10:19

Yeah, yeah. And I the more and more we make it accessible, the more they're willing to like, all right, I'll give it a go. What I like about what we do is that we give you a map, which for me, very data-based person, right? Like I went to Hopkins. So I want to see the map. You say that something's wrong with me, show me. So here's your brain map, here's your blood test, here's your Lyme disease test. Like, and then okay, so what's what's the next design?

SPEAKER_04 1:10:41

This is a subjective right thing.

SPEAKER_02 1:10:44

And I love that you all don't just stop there because so many places, as we've experienced, do stop there. And there's with our kids in okay,

The Biggest Surprise Dealing With Clients

SPEAKER_02 1:10:53

great. Now what?

SPEAKER_03 1:10:54

Yeah, my biggest surprise has been though, and I think it's like a societal cultural thing that we live in, and it's one of the unfortunate things, is that people do, and this happens more in the autism population. People want a magic pill and they want the one thing that works and they want to get it done and move on to this image that they had their life was gonna be. So when something doesn't flip the switch immediately, like there's not really a level of accountability or like, I could have done this and this there. I I we have a lot of physicians that come in for their kids for all the different things. And typically we find when people do all the things, or you know, they really follow their mama intuition. That's your best guidepost, really, is like they'll say, Yeah, we'll give a try to all these different things. These are the best results. But occasionally we'll have like a doctor come in, bring kiddo in, and the kiddo is getting the therapy. You know, for kids, it's expensive. And he's, you know, kiddo is eating just like boxes of candy for breakfast and like potato chips. And I, you know, we're like, hey, do you think that maybe we could feed the brain a little bit better? Well, that has nothing to do with that. And you're like, okay, well, then you know what? We gotta make like whole person investments if you want whole person changes. But it's hard. Like the autism rates are soaring right now, they are really, really climbing. And when you first married and you're younger and you're having kids, you are like, okay, and then I'm gonna have this kid and they're gonna do this and they're gonna play sports and it's gonna be like this. And there's a grief process that happens if your kiddo regresses or that, or just you know, comes up and starts showing these symptoms. There's a grief process that happens. And if you're not willing to sit down and be like, okay, things didn't turn out the way I thought they were, let's try as much as possible, right? Let's really like get myself out of my own way, then progress stalls, right? And some kids, you know, they do try everything and that's just meant to be their journey. And and that can be sad, but they still have a divine purpose, right? And so just kind of honoring that and not not just a hyper focusing on just one thing. Cause I remember like when we did this with Luke, I wouldn't leave. We, you know, we say a clinical minimum of six weeks. I stayed for six months almost. I was like, we're and then the the PA sat me down. She was like, hey, go home. And I was like, what if you're aggressive? She's like, he's not. Yeah. Just go home. Let his little brain reset. And then she said, try some other therapies. And those are the therapies that we include in our clinic now, you know. But my biggest surprise has been still the magic pill mentality with things. So we have our pediatricians doing autism assessments there. They're covered by TriCare. She does it, she's been a pediatrician for 30 years. So she really understands the ins and outs of it. But one of the other things that we're doing is frat testing. Now, leukovoran has become like a very popular word, good, bad, and indifferent. But what a lot of people don't realize, so a lot of people will call us and say we want a leucovorin script. And we're like, we have to test. Well, let's just try it. We have to test because you want the magic pill, right? So what happens is there's this whole Gary Brecke has done a great job of like amplifying what methylation is, this enzymatic process. I wrote a book on it.

SPEAKER_00 1:13:57

Like, you know, I was gonna call that out if you didn't, but okay.

SPEAKER_03 1:13:59

Yeah, I just wrote like a basic one-on-one. So methylation is an enzymatic process, it happens a billion times a minute. It basically tells your cells how to function, how to detox, express your genetics, right? So people are confusing that with the frat testing. So with frat testing, what we do is we look and see if the body is developing antibodies. There's a folate receptor, it looks a lot like this, and it gets all gunked up with these antibodies. And when you give leucovorin, it goes around the receptor, puts the folate in the cerebral spinal fluid, and then these brains start waking up because they've been deprived of folate. They need that folate to function. So we've tried to add a lot of these layers in to really get to the root causes of things. Now, if like a parent comes in, they want the magic leucovorin pill, right? And want to see if it works. And we don't test for the frat antibody or the folate receptor antibodies, there's also a folate receptor on your thyroid. There's a lot of people coming up with thyroid issues now. So if we just gave the leucovorin and didn't take out the root causes of the antibody development, then they hit puberty and they're gonna have all these thyroid issues.

SPEAKER_01 1:14:57

Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 1:14:57

Right. So we're really trying to add those layers in. Like if your kiddo is freaking out at a baseball game, do they have you know gut disruption? Do they do they have something, a mineral disruption? Is yeah, the the mainstream food, even the mainstream healthy food that we think we're eating right now, some of it's really nutrient deficient. And if we layer some of that back in, these kids will regulate given the right supports in their system.

SPEAKER_02 1:15:18

Yeah. Yeah. Absolutely. There's just so many, so many potential, you know, answers to what's happening.

SPEAKER_03 1:15:25

But social media has been good for that.

SPEAKER_02 1:15:27

For sure.

SPEAKER_00 1:15:28

You see what I mean now when I say I married up. Yeah, you married way up.

SPEAKER_04 1:15:31

I mean, I knew before this started, after we had a conversation for a few minutes, you married up.

SPEAKER_00 1:15:36

Like, cool, let's go with some weights and shoot some guns.

SPEAKER_02 1:15:39

I want to do that too. Yes, yes, yes, she is. But that's what makes you the total pitcher. Exactly. Just for him. I was made for him.

SPEAKER_04 1:15:47

Gonna come at you hot and heavy

What They Value Most in Life

SPEAKER_04 1:15:49

though. What do you value most in life?

SPEAKER_00 1:15:51

I'll let you go first. I'll let you handle that one. It's a tough one. That's a loaded question. Don't worry, that's a good question. I know it is. I know.

SPEAKER_03 1:15:58

I think, oh man. I wish I would have known that before. So I could have planned for it better. Uh, Chris and I, even before we met, have been through the highest highs and the lowest lows, and we've been through it together. And there are times where I sit, like I get caught up in my own trauma, and I'm like, which it never happened. But like being in this marriage right now with this person who is like my person, and getting to do this life with him, and knowing that all of those moments, all those hardest moments, led to this point right here, right now, with these kids and this man. Like that's what matters the most to me, which I'm value the most, is like having gone through those things so I know the depth of the darkness, so that I can appreciate how stable and amazing like just being with him and my kids is. Like, so I guess I'm grateful for the whole journey, even like the ickiest parts of it. Yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_00 1:16:57

No, that's that's no pressure, your turn.

SPEAKER_02 1:16:59

Yeah, I know now.

SPEAKER_00 1:16:59

I gotta follow that one up. I gotta live on to that one. No, so for me, it's it's a lot of the same, but my faith probably mentioned I was probably gonna mention something, has been huge, right? I think without that, she's not here. Um, she's not with me, I'm not here, you know, little ones aren't here. It just is what it is. You know, there was a lot of time where I would lived a very selfish life. And and I talked to a lot of people, and everyone talks about their, you know, their faith, their spirituality was like the last thing they came to before the recovery. And I really wish it was the first. For me, I wish going back, it was the first because I I think we could have lived a great life, but without all the the heartache, right? So for me, she is only here because of you know the faith and that she has. And like I when I say that she's a saint, 100% I mean that. I think she was, you know, she laughs, but you know, she was you know placed in my life by a higher being that is beyond all recognition, and like she was a gift, and for that, I I have to thank you know, man upstairs, because this has been the greatest gift I've ever received, ever by far.

SPEAKER_02 1:18:09

So these beautiful by the way, I remembered the heart.

SPEAKER_00 1:18:15

It was with the the fingers now.

SPEAKER_02 1:18:18

It was a moment, it was a moment deserving of a heart. Where can people go if they want to learn more about your clinic?

SPEAKER_03 1:18:25

There are a lot of Mert clinics out there and it uh and TMS clinics. I'd say if if you're struggling with anything, definitely like find one close to you and get some help.

SPEAKER_02 1:18:39

Because it is, it's an extensive not to scare anyone away, but there's a time commitment in this process, it's not instantaneous, right?

SPEAKER_03 1:18:48

It but like if I said, Hey, do you want to go to Sodic, you'd be like, let's go. I'm gonna do that every mild, isn't it? Every day for six weeks.

SPEAKER_04 1:18:54

I'll do that for six weeks or twelve. Yeah, yeah. Right. But I don't want to heal myself.

SPEAKER_03 1:18:58

You have to plan your recovery from whatever it is the same way. You gotta invest in it. You gotta be, you gotta go all in. You can't dabble.

SPEAKER_02 1:19:05

And have you had people come to you all from out of town? Yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_03 1:19:08

Because all the Merc clinics are phenomenal. It all goes through Wave Neuro, which is phenomenal, right? If it's a designated, you can go on the Wave Neuro website and see a designated clinic. What we do is a little bit different because we have this very comprehensive program, an OT program that marries well with the mental health, all the things, right? And so if you want to travel and come to us, we have we have resources for you. We want to help you. If you're going to a Merc clinic out of state, I don't know how much longer I can offer this because I'm doing a lot of it. People will message me and say, hey, I'm in Oklahoma. And the the docs down there are pretty phenomenal. It was one of the docs that Chris saw and said, they say, like, what else can I do? I'll help you find some of the pieces, right? You probably might not be covered by insurance. I've been doing some resourcing in that way. If you want to come to us and do like six to eight week comprehensive, like, let's do it. Let's do it, let's figure it out together. Yeah. Love that. Yeah.

SPEAKER_04 1:19:54

Yeah, we're just grateful y'all trusted us.

SPEAKER_02 1:19:56

And no, took the time from your busy lives to come and hang out with us.

SPEAKER_00 1:20:00

Grateful that you guys are doing stuff like this. I know you guys have a lot of good great people on here that are just doing great things. And the fact that you guys just, you know, make people aware of that stuff. Thank you guys. I mean, that's huge.

SPEAKER_02 1:20:12

Subscribe, like, and comment, and don't forget to set those notifications. We'll see you next week with another special guest.

SPEAKER_04 1:20:20

Until then, on your journey.