He Was an Elite Army Pilot. Then Everything Changed | Josh Martin

Josh Martin seemed to be living the dream.

A West Point graduate, 160th SOAR (Night Stalkers) helicopter pilot, and one of the Army's elite aviators, Josh had accomplished nearly every goal he'd set for himself. Then a devastating motorcycle accident changed everything.

After spending months in the hospital, enduring numerous surgeries, ultimately losing his leg, and fighting to return to the cockpit, Josh was forced to redefine success, purpose, and identity. His journey eventually led him through Vanderbilt's MBA program, a career at McKinsey & Company, and ultimately to discovering that family, resilience, and purpose can take forms we never expect.

In this episode, Josh shares what it takes to overcome adversity, adapt when life doesn't go according to plan, and keep moving forward when every path you imagined disappears.

Whether you're a veteran, leader, entrepreneur, parent, or simply navigating a difficult season, Josh's story is a powerful reminder that your greatest setback doesn't have to define your future.

In this episode:
* Why Josh chose West Point after 9/11
* Becoming a pilot in the elite 160th SOAR (Night Stalkers)
* What it really takes to earn a place in Special Operations Aviation
* The motorcycle accident that changed his life
* Losing his leg and fighting to return to flying
* The emotional challenge of losing his identity as a military aviator
* Earning an MBA from Vanderbilt
* Working at McKinsey & Company
* Why he stepped away from corporate life
* Fatherhood, purpose, resilience, and finding a new mission
* Tactical patience and making better decisions during adversity


⏱️ CLICKABLE CHAPTER TIMESTAMPS
00:00 Why is Josh Special?
02:55 Why Josh Chose West Point
08:05 The Road to the 160th SOAR Night Stalkers
18:15 Becoming a Night Stalker
25:45 The Difference Between Army Aviation and the 160th
34:50 The Motorcycle Accident
39:55 Fighting to Fly Again
48:20 Losing His Identity
55:15 Vanderbilt MBA and Reinventing Himself
1:03:00 Life at McKinsey & Company
1:10:15 Fatherhood Changed Everything
1:15:10 Lessons in Resilience and Tactical Patience
1:18:30 Final Thoughts

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Transcript

SPEAKER_01 0:00

Josh, why are you special?

SPEAKER_03 0:04

See, I was prepared for that question, but I don't think I'm special. I I would say I'm just another unique person that has a series of events that you know has defined the course of my life and sent me in different directions and I've handled those tests in ways that you know other people look at or admire. There's no way I feel I feel special.

SPEAKER_01 0:27

We think you're special. We've known you for many years, and I believe the audience will think you're special. I mean 160th night stalker pilot, Vanderbilt MBA. You've also worked in big consulting. True grit and positive attitude. I'm sure we'll get into your accident that the audience probably can't tell right now, but you you went through some traumatic experiences and losing your legs. Uh just how you handle yourself, I think, is makes you special.

SPEAKER_03 0:52

Extremely I I appreciate that, Herb. Uh I really do.

SPEAKER_01 0:57

I'm Herb Thompson, a green brain resolutionist.

SPEAKER_00 1:00

And I'm Corey Thompson, Herb's less hairy hat and branding expert.

SPEAKER_01 1:04

Our guests come from various backgrounds, but one thing is true. They are special. I I think you're a special cat. I don't think I've said that yet. Special cat.

SPEAKER_00 1:17

Literally ever.

SPEAKER_01 1:19

Uh but let's let's back up a little bit. What led you to the army in West Point?

SPEAKER_03 1:25

You want the long version or the short version? Oh, I want the real version. I don't know. The the military was never a part of my family. I didn't have a dad or uncle or grandparents or anybody like that that served. And so for me, to end up in the military or to go to a service academy was kind of out of left field, I think, for you know, my parents, at least initially, when I I kind of brought up that idea, but they they definitely supported and and did everything I think they they could have to, you know, give me as much information or or be able to explore that path. You know, being somebody that was born at the the last uh part of the 80s and kind of growing up at a very formative time, you know, in our in our lives, you know, September 11th definitely had a a huge impact on, you know, that that drive, I think, to to be of service in some way. And I can remember sixth grade kind of seeing that that all unfold on TV and and kind of the the following weeks and days and the initial push into Afghanistan and you know, kind of the the multi-decade war that we we got uh pulled into at that point was kind of the, yeah, it's it's the right call. I need to to do something. And um for me, it was it was always figuring out, okay, what where can I have the greatest impact or where can I position myself that I think would be um you know something that I would be fulfilled by. And the the call to to be an officer, I think was was one of the things, the things that, you know, was certainly of interest to me. But in addition to kind of serving in the military, I was always interested in aviation. And uh I was that kid that would look up in the sky and and see an airplane and be able to identify, you know, figure out exactly what it was or you know, uh who might have been flying it, and and was just always enthralled with that. And so I was kind of trying to marry that pathway of like, okay, how can I check the block of the military at the same time as maybe positioning myself to you know go into to aviation a little bit deeper, airline pilot or something like that, is kind of like my my dream career.

SPEAKER_00 3:30

I'm gonna deviate from our our board here for a moment and just tell you last time we saw you was in Chicago, and we had this magical hotel room right outside of Chicago O'Hare airstrips. And we were planning, we had planned to go out to dinner, and we came into our room to set our stuff down, and we realized our window was facing the airfield and the runway was right there, and the planes were landing and going and they were taken off. Oh, yeah, at that point, I guess they were taking off.

SPEAKER_01 4:04

And it looked like like if they put the wheels up, they're about to hit the roof. It was like because it's right at the end of the runway. I didn't stay and watch that all day. We did have it downstairs.

SPEAKER_00 4:13

So we decided to go downstairs.

SPEAKER_01 4:14

Two autistic kids would just take that part out, Candon.

SPEAKER_00 4:19

We went downstairs and we got our food, and then we went back up to the room and we sat there all night, no kidding, for like three or four hours just watching these planes, and we were mesmerized. So we'll let you know that location because it sounds like it might be an ideal hotel room for you next time you're in Chicago.

SPEAKER_03 4:36

I want to have to request that room for you uh the next time.

SPEAKER_00 4:39

Yeah, exactly. But so it sounds like 160th was kind of always a goal. And for those that may not know, can you describe what the 160th is and how you go about getting into that?

SPEAKER_03 4:50

Yeah, I think the the 160th was definitely a goal from the time that I heard about them. And I I guess I would describe the 160th as, you know, elite special operations aviation unit and the US Army flying the black helicopters that everybody thinks of as a quote unquote black helicopter. But that I don't think, you know, was my initial goal. I, you know, even leading into that time, you know, where I was thinking about the military, I was always focused on I want to be that dude that's flying the fast movers on and off the postage stamp in the middle of the ocean. Like Taco was my favorite movie as a kid growing up. Like that was exactly what I wanted to do. So I was, you know, very, very focused, at least from that time in the sixth grade, when I kind of like had that idea that, okay, I want to be in the military, I want to serve as an officer. A service academy might be a good way or a good objective in being able to achieve that or setting me up for service as an officer. And so I was really focused on the Naval Academy, kind of like my number one college choice. Then I ranked, you know, the Air Force Academy, and like they also fly jets and and other fast movers and do somewhat cool things if you're a pilot. Then I I don't even know that.

SPEAKER_00 5:57

I like that you threw that caveat in the real click like if you're a pilot.

SPEAKER_03 6:02

I mean, I I don't I don't necessarily know that like West Point was really on my radar. You know, I I think it was always kind of like I don't want to say it was a backup option, but it was something that like if it panned out and you know was the the direction things went, then I would would certainly entertain it. But I was certainly like Navy being a Navy pilot was kind of the the objective. So I as things ended up you know happening, I I wound up at West Point branching aviation and getting into Army aviation. And you know, first and foremost, like you don't go to the 160th Straight Auto Flight School or or even as as a lieutenant. And so I knew that I was gonna have to, you know, kind of work my way to to open that door, made decisions along the way that I think would support that, and wound up flying a scout aircraft, a Kio Warrior, for a couple of years in the 101st before really the first opportunity that that I had to apply or or you know see if I could even get an assessment to enter that next world.

SPEAKER_01 7:00

Not not technically, like what do you have to do to get into the 160s, but what do you think it takes to get in there? Because like Michael, who's been a guest for you both were there. What do you think got you there?

SPEAKER_03 7:17

I I to be totally honest don't know what got me there. I I feel like I threw a Hail Mary and and somehow like that materialized into something that like you know was much greater than anything I could ever could have expected at that point in my career. I assessed as a lieutenant. I got pulled over there before I was even promotable to captain. So I never expected, like I knew that that the the likelihood of something like that happening was was super low. Like Yeah, that's not normal, right?

SPEAKER_01 7:51

Usually it's a little later in their career.

SPEAKER_03 7:53

I mean, I think outwardly the 160th will say like they're looking, you know, on the commission side for captains that have completed their KD requirement as a company command and you know, have 500 plus hours and have been a pilot in command of an aircraft and exhibit, you know, all these other markers that would indicate that you know they're gonna be successful at the regiment and have at least two more years as a captain to contribute to the organization. At that point in time, like when I first applied for for the regiment, I was a first lieutenant, had maybe I want to say what was it March of 2015. I graduated in 2012. So like I was inside of three years as an officer in the military applying for a unit that quite honestly, like I was surprised would even entertain the idea of bringing in a lieutenant that didn't have any prior combat experience or prior, prior service experience prior to becoming an officer, you know, to join that community. And you know, I knew it was gonna be a long shot, but for me at the time in my career, like I was at the very tail end of flying the Kiowa warrior. Like I selected that aircraft in flight school, and like at the time the army had, you know, been forward with their aviation restructuring initiative or whatever they were calling it that involved the the Kiowa being phased out. I knew that, everybody else in flight school knew that, but we didn't know how fast it was going to happen, and it ended up happening probably two or three years faster than was projected at that time that I selected that airframe and selected that mission. And the thing about that mission that really resonated with me was being able to support the guys on the ground, being in direct radio contact, like flying right over their heads, doing low nap-the-air masking operations where you're sticking the the ball or the sensor that sits on top of the rotor trees to you know gain intel or you know, be able to to relate to the guys on the ground what you're seeing, or being able to work with some unmanned vehicles and and you know, see their ISR picture in your cockpit and you know, being able to do a call for fire, or be kind of like that that next link in that chain or the eyes for the calvescout. Like that that was an awesome mission for me. Like I felt like I was, you know, as an aviator able to support the guys on the ground and you know, wasn't just a a person or an equipment hauler, wasn't just an attack pilot. Like I I felt like it was the most versatile platform, and that's why I selected it. But ended up getting through flight school and and going to my first unit of the 101st and realized the day that I I signed in there that like, oh, I'm gonna have maybe 15 months of like actually flying this aircraft because or before that aircraft gets flown to the the bone yard and you know I'm I'm without a job essentially. And at that point, like the alternative was me probably going up to division staff as a a first lieutenant and that sounds fun. Yeah, exactly. Like I was like, not I don't want to do that. Like I wanted to avoid that at all costs. And so, you know, they they did some other things in instead of sending some people to division staff or or elsewhere, you know, that you you could place like a first lieutenant that you know doesn't exactly have a a job and you know potentially send people down to uh Rucker for the the uh Apache course or whatever transition they were gonna get. But can I ask a question on that real quick?

SPEAKER_01 11:20

It's not like driving a car where if you get in an Audi versus a Ford, like you just get in and drive. Like is it that easy to just go fly another helicopter?

SPEAKER_03 11:30

I mean, if you can follow a checklist, yeah, you you you probably could.

SPEAKER_00 11:33

Um I I think any any helicopter pilot could be previously helicopter trains.

SPEAKER_03 11:42

Oh, could could probably pick up another checklist, go through some stuff, realize that like, yeah, there are gonna be some things that are a little bit different, you know, diff different system limitations, but I I don't think it was that difficult necessarily. It's one of those things where like I didn't want to become a gun pilot because that wasn't a mission that you know I wanted to do or or work in, or really a community that I wanted to be a part of necessarily. And so I I thought, okay, like if there's another option, like I'm here at Campbell, it's not gonna cost them anything, you know, as far as like TUI or anything like that to like bring me over and and you know potentially assess me if I throw an application out. Like I had three chances, or at least, you know, that's what everybody says, like you can drop three free applications. You know, if you get anywhere like in that process, like if you're really not who they're looking for, they'll tell you.

SPEAKER_00 12:32

Yeah, but well, they say, like, hey Josh, stop applying.

SPEAKER_03 12:35

Yeah, yeah. Like I I think, I think they probably would have done that. Like, if if you're like, okay, you balled an aircraft up, or you know, you were definitely not like the right kind of personality, or like any number of other things, like they would probably tell you, like, you're not welcome to apply again. But in every stage, like they'll tell you, like, if you apply and like you don't have enough hours, or you don't have you know enough certain boxes that you're supposed to check before, they'll tell you like do X, Y, or Z and reapply in this time frame. And so, like, they would have at that point, I think, given me any feedback of, you know, go get a few more hours or go get a company command under your belt and then then think about it.

SPEAKER_00 13:16

I know this is totally simplifying it, but my mind goes to American Idol when they're like, you know what, like if you need like I'm just envisioning this like Simon Cowell-esque panel of like hard charging like advice, but it's at least they give you an opportunity to And I mean all of that stuff is driven off of like the whoever the assessment officer is and you know what what kind of like their needs are.

SPEAKER_03 13:40

You know, seeing the other side of things, you know, I I can say like, okay, there were probably a lot of risks or things that you know they were willing to take, given the the strength and and kind of like where I got pulled.

SPEAKER_00 13:52

But if if you think of profiling for a moment of some of the things that you can't actually pinpoint, but there's just an it factor. You possess those, Josh. I mean, you have the candor and you have the personality traits that I think are similar of the people that we've met.

SPEAKER_01 14:10

On American Idol.

SPEAKER_00 14:12

Not from American Idol, from the ones that are the other night stalkers. The other night stalkers. It's like when you hear someone say Josh's night stalker or this person, you're like, Yep, that tracks. Like it it just it I think that they were wise in identifying that early on with you.

SPEAKER_03 14:28

I mean, I I don't know how they do it. Like, yeah, I mean, just like with all soft, like there's a psychological, you know, assessment component to everything. But that's not something that they get into until like you're in an assessment. Like, and you know, the whole process, like, okay, I was a lieutenant, I had made pilot and command, I had like, you know, maybe 450 hours, like still, you know, hadn't kind of crossed that threshold that I thought was kind of what I I needed baseline to be able to get over there. But they were still willing to take that chance and they they brought me over for an assessment. And I think that that was like, okay, like that's when I thought there there was really a chance, you know. If they're gonna, you know, at least, you know, do a a week-long interview or something like that and kind of test me in that way, like I'll give it my all and and see where things go, like it's not gonna hurt anything at that point, especially.

SPEAKER_00 15:19

Yeah. So once you made it, was there a moment that stood out to you as a really unique moment as a night stalker? When I think of a night stalker, I think of someone who, you know, lands in really complex situations or spaces. And I don't know about to you if there was a moment that like stood out with you.

SPEAKER_01 15:40

Plus or minus 30 seconds they'll be on time. He was on time this morning, by the way. Oh, yeah. It was a little earlier.

SPEAKER_00 15:46

It was earlier than he knew he was coming to a former drill sergeant's house. So he was like, uh-uh, not today. Sorry, Josh. I should have done a holding pattern or two at the RP, but as long as you don't call in any airstrikes, I think we're good.

SPEAKER_03 16:03

Yeah. So I don't know if there was a specific moment like, you know, when I made it necessarily. I would say, you know, getting through the assessment, like that was just like the first step. And that was just scratching the surface. At that point in time, like I remember sleeping in my office across the airfield throughout the assessment week on a cot, like maybe the you know, couple hours that I was able to get asleep a night between you know the planning and putting together presentations and everything, like for the final board. That you know, to me, I I poured everything that I had into that. And like it was, you know, when I when I went through that final board and and kind of got the shocking realization that they were welcoming and offering like a specific billet, I was like, wow, like that's crazy, but I need to sleep. So I I probably you know went and slept for a couple of days and and then it really like sank in that like okay, I I now like you know probably am gonna face imposter syndrome being like as young as I was, you know, in a green platoon class that was full of other officers that were, you know, three, four, five years um, you know, more senior than me when it comes to the what was that like?

SPEAKER_00 17:15

Were they welcoming to you?

SPEAKER_03 17:17

Or I I mean at that point I think when you know you're still not in the regiment at that point. Like you're still working through the the SOAT B pipeline or the the training battalion's pipeline where I had to get an aircraft transition. So I I was qualified to fly the Kaiwa Warrior, but the Kaiwa Warrior is very different from the MH-47 Chinook. Like going from the smallest aircraft in the army to come to the biggest was kind of like it, you know, it was just a two-month kind of course where it was like, okay, you get up to speed and flying the aircraft, getting all the systems down, all the emergency procedures down. Like that, you know, go passing that initial aircraft transition check ride was kind of like the first step in Green Platoon, and then going through the officer green platoon, like actual like field training stuff, and then the advanced aircraft qualification and mission qualification, like that was a six-month process that like throughout that entire time I was like, I still haven't made it until I'm able to put the beret on with the flash and you know, go and and join Segment Italian. And I I don't think that I I truly realized what I'd gotten into until I had, you know, finished all that stuff, finished the final check ride, and you know, wound up showing up to H2 as as an executive officer was like my first job at the 160th, but I was flying on the the B2 ATP and and then that ultimately was the company that I went to. And it was like getting down to the the flight company or the line company was really, I think, when I I felt like okay, like this is awesome. Like this is what I came here for, and and really uh was was the moment or or the time that I really felt like okay, I'm a night slalker now.

SPEAKER_01 19:00

I love that. Oh, give me goosebumps. I mean, I know there's a difference. Like, I guess what's the difference of you know, you're flying in the regular army, you're flying there like from the outside, a guy who's hopped on the bird or watching him fly overhead a lot, it's just so much more precise. But I don't what for you in the cockpit, what was the difference?

SPEAKER_03 19:23

I mean, pr precise is a is a good description. I think the biggest difference is every every time you go out to the aircraft, there's a focus. Like you're you're training something, you're working, you're working with a unit trainer or an instructor pilot or flight leader or a more senior FMQ that is is helping you improve something. You know, whether it's going out for like your annual A part or or something where you're demonstrating your competency in the aircraft, like there's always some kind of mission scenario that might be injected in any of that to test the the standard of being plus or minus 30 seconds or being able to stick an aircraft on the ground in the exact 10-digit grid square that like the customer, you know, is is needing to be. Like those those are the things that I I think make the 160th or or the experience of flying in that unit that much different or more precise is like that very intentional focus. Like in the regular army, you know, you have a certain number of flight hours and you manage those flight hours, and there are certain things that you do or like certain taskings that you get from division that might say, like, okay, we need you to support this, you know, training iteration, and you know, you'll have or we need XYZ support and you go make it happen. But a lot of the other flight hours that you might have are kind of like, okay, we're gonna run up to Paducah and we're gonna grab lunch, or or we're gonna go, you know, hit a couple of different airports and work on our airspace management. And, you know, at the 160th, like all of that stuff happens when you're, you know, flying to and from customer support trips or or other training that you're doing across the country. But everything that that you're doing is very focused on making sure that you're you're developing skills and developing the skills that are going to be critical to enabling the customer. And I think that relentless customer focus that the 160th has really, I guess, permeated through everything that we did, whether it was flying or whether it was any of the other maintenance or things that we were doing that enabled that core mission.

SPEAKER_00 21:28

Was there a time when you first made that transition from the one helicopter to the next that you were like, this is like going from a Prius to a suburban? And you expect me to do that where? Because that would be my reaction.

SPEAKER_03 21:43

I mean, yeah, like there is definitely a little bit of that, like going from the Kiwa to the the Chinook, but yeah. The Kiwa is kinda like I I would describe it as like a Miata or something like that. Like you can kind of whip it around and you know, it's it's it's fun to play around in, but it doesn't really have like a ton of power. Sure. The Chinook, totally different beast. Like it's it's got, you know, amazing legs, if you will, for like how responsive it is, and just the way that as a tandem rotor aircraft flies, like it it didn't have the same kind of like torquey or quirkiness that the the Kiowa had, and you just feel a lot more solid. It's almost like you know, you're in a a plane that can take off vertically. But I think the biggest difference for me really was it like the hardest adjustment was going from the kayak where it's just unicopilot, and it's just like two people in the aircraft, and like you can basically talk to one another, I mean, over the intercom, but you know, you don't have to like get anybody else's buy-in. Like, you know that the tail boom is, you know, about 10 yards behind you. Like you, you know, it's it's small enough, and like you know, like you can look at a space like, okay, I can go there. You know, Chinook, like you you have to accommodate all of the other crew members. Like you have a pilot, a co-pilot, and generally a flight engineer and a couple of other crew chiefs. You know, we would typically fly with a six-person crew. And so when you have door gunners and then aft door gunner or aft gunners that are there providing um, you know, airspace surveillance and like looking, clearing you down and clearing your uh aft rotor on the trees and everything else like that into a tight LZ, and you have to like be patient and listen to them and listen for their calls or like communicate with them effectively, in addition to communicating with everybody outside of the aircraft or the other aircraft in the flight. I think that was the biggest shift that I think I had to had to make in terms of like an aviators mentality.

SPEAKER_01 23:40

That's so asked me a question. I like that. You talked about as a commissioned officer, there's like obviously a limitation at some point in your career what you can fly, but you were considering becoming a warrant officer because all they do is fly.

SPEAKER_03 23:55

I mean, I'm paraphrasing, but your ability to can stay in the cockpit as a commissioned officer expires at some point, generally, you know, as a major, you know, when you're a company commander or on staff or any number of the other more important, like more strategically focused roles. And to me, like I was I was an operator, like at least being in my you know, late 20s, I was kind of focused on okay, what can I do to, you know, make this an enjoyable career to keep flying and to continue to accrue the hours, accrue the experience, to, you know, then go on to the airlines or go on to another professional flying gig. Like that was what I wanted to do. Reverting to warrant, you know, I I think some of the people that I really looked up to most in the organization were other guys that had started their their time in the regiment as commissioned officers, as a captain, you know, may have promoted to major or been a major and done a company command and then decided to revert so that they could focus on being, you know, the the tactical operator and you know the flight lead, being the the true aviation expert and representative for the customer in that capacity. And that's really what I think resonated with me if I was to continue my career in the army. And that was ultimately what I wanted to do and had kind of you know thought like if I'd the opportunity to go be an instructor pilot and take a command at Rucker and then you know come back to the regiment and revert, like that would have been the ideal trajectory, and then ultimately be instead of being on the company command or like battalion command pipeline in an organization like that, I would be more on the okay, I'm looking to make flight lead, and you know, this these are all the things that go into that. And like, you know, I'm maintaining different relationships across the customer base and you know, picking up a certain specialty, whether it's electronic warfare or like defeat or area operations or anything else like that. Like there are always gonna be flight leads that have their own sort of pet projects and things that they're they're you know more innately focused on that impact the tactical realm, I think, a little bit more than like the bigger strategic, you know, I guess, political aspect of a lot of you know, more senior military officer positions.

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SPEAKER_01 26:42

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SPEAKER_03 27:15

I don't know. I th I think you know, being 28 years old and being where I was, like having accomplished, you know, long-standing goal of getting in the 160th, you know, being where I was. I just made fully mission-qualified aviator. I was on and off uh rotations and trips and just living a very, I don't know, fluid life around and and building my life around everything that I had and that focus on uh the regiment and deploying and the mission and trying to do everything. And and then just like that, like my life changed when I got T-bone going through an intersection in Clarksville when I was riding my motorcycle. Talk about like being kind of at the the pinnacle, like the true kind of like area that I thought like I was really like in the zone, or like in a place where I was was feeling probably the best that I I've ever felt in my life in terms of what I was doing and in the match and purpose and mission and everything like that, to being knocked all the way down to the the very bottom. I mean it was it was hard. Like I I spent two months at Vanderbilt in the hospital. I had been lifelighted from the scene of the accident in Clarksville down to Nashville. I was at that point like 10, 12 surgeries into a limb salvage. I mean, it it was just super hard to to deal with. And not only did I have like the bodily trauma to to my leg and other parts of my body, but I had a moderate TBI and it was definitely like in and out of consciousness and you know, awareness of what had happened to me, like what my life would be like moving forward. It was just, you know, super is an event that certainly has changed and and impacted the the last eight years of my life.

SPEAKER_00 29:07

Do you remember any of the thoughts you had as that moment occurred? I know some people don't from trauma, some people that stays with them. Are there any moments that you recall?

SPEAKER_03 29:18

I mean, fortunately, I don't have any recollection of the accident itself. Um I think the brain does amazing things in terms of being able to block stuff like that out. But I think the last thing I remember was hopping on my bike, leaving the office on a Friday in April, and you know, it was one of the warmer days that that you know, forcibly been able to kind of bring the bike out after the winter and you know was gonna cruise the long way home. And you know, as it as it happened, you know, I just never made it home.

SPEAKER_01 29:50

Now dealing with that injury, at what point did it start to go like, hey, the this is changing my career? Did you know instantly, probably, or is it gonna make me have to stop being a pilot?

SPEAKER_03 30:04

I think initially, like I I certainly maintained hope and and was super optimistic that I was gonna get back to the regiment and get back to doing the same thing that I had been doing and and the, you know, having the the same ability. Um that that probably came from one of the first visitors I can remember coming to my hotel room maybe like two, three weeks after my accident, was a at the time he was a COV5 and just retired a couple of years ago, but he was one of the first amputee pilots in the military. And he had a similar incident where he went down on his bike and lost his leg below the knee, ended up being kind of having to really chart that that untested territory of getting back to the cockpit and made it back to the cockpit and continued his career for I think another almost 20 years after that. That alone and like that visit to me was kind of like, I mean, if he did it, like there's nothing to say that I can't do the exact same thing. You know, whether or not I, you know, end up keeping the leg or or or what ends up happening, like there is you know, precedent that that I can, you know, point to and say, like, you know, if I can pass all these other tests or you know, do whatever else, like I should be able to be able to be back in the cockpit. So that was my core focus, and and I think that remained my core focus for probably the first at least year and a half of of that journey post post accident.

SPEAKER_01 31:33

For a year and a half battling to get back in the cockpit, to get get yourself in a point. I mean, I guess at what point did it did you have to decide that you you're gonna have to make a choice not to go back in the cockpit?

SPEAKER_03 31:50

It was always like battling a timeline. It was awesome to get to to the 160 and then to the regiment when I did, and and to get that experience as a a lieutenant and then you know as a junior captain to to be in a lot of billets that like typically like they would put post-kd captains in, it meant that like I wasn't satisfying or wasn't being able to get the the KD time that I needed to to stay promotable, kind of on you know, the the normal trajectory as an officer. And and for me, you know, when I saw that that point in my career where I was like, okay, I was at, you know, six, seven, eight years, and like, you know, needed to kind of like be in a position where I could take a command and knock that out to to at least maintain that chance of of staying up with my peers. Like, that's kind of when when I made that decision, ultimately not necessarily to to stop pursuing the pathway back to the cockpit, but more, you know, is just like, okay, I've I've been through, I think at that point, 15 or 16 surgeries and ended up as a baloney amputee and had, you know, a couple of revisions at that point that, you know, pointed to the likelihood that like I would be able to still do the job at the level that I wanted to be able to do the job was in question, at least to me. I'm sure it was probably one of those things that everybody else around me that that was aware of those ambitions, like probably, you know, was thinking, you know, just maybe not, you know, voicing it to me or or outwardly. But I definitely think that in that time and and having been through everything that I'd been through and you know, what I felt like I was physically capable of doing, I saw myself as more of a liability if I was able to get back into that seat as a pilot in the 160th that was doing missions or or would even be able to get back to that that spot. Sure, like I probably could have continued to pursue uh getting back in the cockpit and getting back to the regiment, but like I probably would have been, oh, it makes more sense to go be a maintenance test pilot or to enable the missions in an in another way. And for me, if I wasn't able to be, you know, kind of in the cockpit, the that front or the tip of the spear, like I I probably would not have, you know, had the same degree of of excitement about the job or fulfillment. In 2020, 2020 was definitely a difficult year. I, you know, is at that point coming up on almost two years since the accident. Accident happened Friday, April 13th, 2018. And I I kind of went through almost eight months of limb salvage, ended up realizing that the the bone infection that I had, you know, was was not going to be immediately cured without, you know, at least two more years of surgery if I wanted to continue the salvage. And that ultimately was when I I opted for an amputation and and had the lower part of my leg amputated in January of 2019. At that point, like it felt like I was hitting the reset button, like able to, you know, have some hope of like at least being, you know, at least having some degree of like predictability around what the recovery was going to look like and you know, timeline of when I would go into a prosthetic and you know what it looked like to work into a prosthetic and continue to regain or or like get back to doing all the things that I wanted to do. Like that first year as an APT, like, yeah, the first couple of months were hard, but I think once I got back to the point where I was wearing and walking in a prosthetic normally, to being a little bit more active and having a run leg made, and then being able to, you know, run a mile here, three miles here, or get to the point where like I was back getting into competitive shooting again. And so shooting three guns, shooting pistol matches, like I was, you know, living a pretty, you know, what I thought was going to be a promising sort of physical life and and able to get back to doing all the things that I wanted to do. Like I was still very focused on getting back to the cockpit and and understanding what I would need to do and need to demonstrate to make that happen.

SPEAKER_00 36:01

What what was your support group like at that time? Did you have a like outside of your peers in the military, did you have like a a familial support group that was supporting you?

SPEAKER_03 36:12

I mean, at that time, I was down in in Fort Sam and San Antonio, and I would say my support group was really just my family. My mom would come visit from Arizona every now and then. I met who is now my wife uh in December of 2018, and kind of we started our long distance relationship, you know, that throughout 2019, and a lot of that revolved around, you know, who was making trips to the Pacific Northwest, or I was making trips to the Pacific Northwest, or she was coming down to Texas, or and to complicate this, we should point out she's also active military, right? She she's active duty at the time. She was stationed at JBLM. You know, we were fortunate in 2019 when she came down to San Antonio for a longer course and was was actually able to stay with me for a couple of months, which was was really great. And I think, you know, continued to to kind of build a better support system. Uh and and got me to the point where I ended up asking her to marry me later that year. But progression in 2019, you know, that first year as an amputee, recovering, like I I felt like I was kind of like climbing back up the mountain and and was almost not back at the top, but like certainly back up at a healthy place where I was was on that that trajectory that I wanted to be on. You know, things kind of digressed when I started having swelling issues and a number of other other issues of my residual limb that kind of indicated again to me that like, okay, the infection was still somewhat present because the X-rays showed that some of the bone had resorbed and exposed some other hardware. And, you know, at the very basic level, they would have to go in and take all the hardware out and and at least like revise the amputation. So I had that reset done in January of 2020. And that kind of like reset that timeline again to where it's like, okay, I'm two more months out of a prosthetic. It's going to be a slow kind of process getting back into it and working up to back to everything that I had already done as an amputee in that first year. And then I would still like be on a specific timeline where I'd have to demonstrate the physical ability and you know, the basically make my case for being able to stay in the military after losing a limb. And then all the craziness of 2020, you know, things in the military health system sort of made it harder to get the the right kind of care and appointments and make some some progress. And at that point, like I've been in for eight years and was kind of like, okay, this is kind of like the the point at which it's going to be hard to resurrect or at least not like find myself in a position where I get passed over my first look at major and and would have to um, you know, kind of explore other options or or you know, put all of my my chips in the basket for above the zone look. For me, that was kind of when my mindset shifted from okay, maybe staying in and continue to pursue this, given sort of everything that I've been through medically and and where my limb is at and kind of the the timing of everything, like it may not be you know what I need to do. Like maybe this is you know God or the universe telling me like I I need to think about a plan B. And at that point, like I didn't have a plan B. There wasn't a plan.

SPEAKER_02 39:35

Still at that point.

SPEAKER_03 39:36

Yeah, there was really not uh an an alternate plan. And like coming from my community, shame on me, because I I knew everything like should have a contingency. But I guess my contingency that I was building at that point was, you know, thinking about getting out and accepting uh medical retirement and you know, figuring out what I would be good at on the outside in corporate America, or you know, if I wanted to climb the corporate ladder, so to say, like it was was one of those things that like, okay, I had all my classmates that got out at five years and were kind of like, you know, they've got to do investment banking or into consulting or into law or project or program management or any number of other things that were kind of like, okay, all those things sound interesting, but I honestly hadn't thought about it at this point. And so what can I do to position myself in a way where like I can lean on my experience in the military, experience in special operations, my degree, West Point, you know, systems engineering, like what are the things that will will help me kind of figure that and that next step out? And I decided to to that point pursue an MBA and and kind of go in in a way where like I would have a little bit, you know, a little bit of flexibility or or somewhat like generalist or or more open aperture for uh finding that next fit.

SPEAKER_01 40:57

Hit subscribe right now. More great guests coming up next week. So hit the little button on there to subscribe.

SPEAKER_00 41:03

During your recovery, was there ever a point where it hit you and you questioned like, who am I now? Who am I going to be now? Because I was a night stalker. Who who is Josh now?

SPEAKER_03 41:18

I don't know that I spent a lot of time on that question, like who am I now? It's it's certainly one of the things that I've been trying to unpack a little bit more in these last couple years. It was probably one of the things that I I definitely repressed at the time. Because for me it was always like I was always focused on what I needed to do to get to that that next point, like to get to to accomplish whatever goal I had set. And you know, my goal being getting back to the regiment or or getting back to the cockpit or continuing to serve was kind of the focus. And you know, I I sort of didn't pay any attention to any of the naysayers or things that that you know, in my head, whether it was like, oh, you're never gonna do that, or like, you know, you're less than, or you know, you have a a disability or anything like that at this point. Like I I didn't really spend any time thinking about that.

SPEAKER_02 42:14

Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 42:14

But now as as I I look at that, I was like, okay, I'm still the same person, but like I, you know, in different, like I'm down a leg. I, you know, try not to let that affect me or affect, you know, my views of what I'm capable of doing. But it it definitely, you know, looking back and looking at kind of I say, you know, I failed in that objective of getting back to the regiment or failed and you know, being able to continue to serve, it's just one of those things that that I think, you know, our our lives are journeys and you know, they're meandering paths and I'm smiling as you say that because you know I don't think you failed.

SPEAKER_00 42:53

I think that God has a divine purpose for all of us. And now we have two beautiful children, a life. And some might say it's not impossible in the 160th, but it certainly makes things challenging. And it's allowed you to step into that lifestyle and fully embrace it and be present. And we got to have a wonderful conversation around this about that. So I think some might say you failed, but some might say it led you to some could shove it up the head, is what I think about it. But but some might say it led you to this divine moment in your life.

SPEAKER_01 43:35

Well, I think it's interesting. You you decide to go to Vanderbilt prestigious MBA, and then you're like you and your wife are like you have your first kid and like life changes, right, at that point, right? Like a lot of life changes in a pretty short amount of time.

SPEAKER_03 43:50

Yeah, definitely. I I don't know. If I would say that there's a a theme that dominates the the last eight years of my life, it's just always been change and adapting. Adapting to the changes and and being able to kind of roll with all the all the different punches that you know might be thrown my way.

SPEAKER_00 44:08

So what's what's harder? Having sleepless nights, two cranky babies, trying to figure out all the needs, changing diapers in the middle of the night.

SPEAKER_01 44:21

Or assessing for the 160th.

SPEAKER_00 44:23

Or assessment for the 160th.

SPEAKER_03 44:25

I don't know. I think I don't want to want to give any controversial answers answers here, uh, or being in any hot water, but they each present their own challenges.

SPEAKER_00 44:34

That was a very diplomatic way of handling that question.

SPEAKER_03 44:39

There's no place I'd rather be than where I am now, you know, kind of being able to experience life as a dad and as a husband, and you know, being in a little bit of a different support role now with different customers, if you will. Uh it's it's definitely a different chapter. It's still a fulfilling chapter. But if if you told me, or you told my 28 or 29-year-old self that at 36, this is what your life is gonna be like, I'd be like, you're so full of shit. Like, there's no way, absolutely no way. Like to go from, you know, the this dude who was, you know, only focused on his work and flying, and you know, whatever time he had away from that was spent, you know, out at a drop zone or on a motorcycle or you know, down on Broadway and Nashville, or like any number of other like crazy things that I was into at that stage of my life, like not even thinking about you know, having or wanting a family to be, you know, where I am now and to have the life experiences and you know, been through everything like medically, you know, academically, professionally that I have been. Like it's it's been a wild ride, but mostly positive.

SPEAKER_00 45:53

Are they more demanding than your previous customers?

SPEAKER_03 45:57

Uh the bossier. The the four-year-old definitely has his uh his attitude, and the 18-month-old, she uh is definitely she's certainly getting a lot more sass now.

SPEAKER_01 46:09

Oh, get right. Oh, yeah, get right.

SPEAKER_03 46:10

Yeah, I don't know. That's just starting. Like all the customers, the customers definitely fit certain stereotypes and like have different nuances and in what they need and how they try to accomplish it. I would say the kids are just the same way. It's just figuring out how to deal with people.

SPEAKER_00 46:25

Love it.

SPEAKER_01 46:26

Uh yeah, how how to deal with people. And I mean, you worked almost three years in one of the you know, big three consulting firms. What was that like for you?

SPEAKER_03 46:36

Different. I would say you know, it was not authentic for who I am. And I I think what I I want to be able to do are the kind of impact that I want to have. I mean, get me wrong, like working at McKinsey, like yeah, one of the MBB firms, like super prestigious. And, you know, it was kind of like another one of those moments where it was like to have an opportunity to work at a firm like that coming from a program at Vanderbilt, you know, wasn't necessarily a target program, but you know, being a part of a big push into to consulting coming out of 2020, like were things that, you know, I I never thought were were going to be like a possibility. It was another kind of like Hail Mary moment with the 160th. But I knew that that you know, the experience that I would gain in consulting and the exposure that I would get, you know, all sorts of different industries, all sorts of different functions was just you know the kind of experience that you know it takes you know, five, ten years to get anywhere else.

SPEAKER_01 47:34

Yeah, you get it quickly there.

SPEAKER_03 47:36

Yeah, that's for sure. Like it was a huge like fire hose for the first you know six months trying to build up a toolkit and get super proficient and excel in PowerPoint. But at the end of the day, like you look at like the impact that you have in a client, and I realize that the the people that are are having you know the majority of the conversations and like the doing most of like the client hands type of work and like engagement with a client are gonna be more senior, you know, even more senior than one of the engagement managers or like a team manager. And as an associate and you know, working into to managing those teams, it was you know challenging to feel like I was really having any kind of impact going to work, just working on models or or working on editing our specific narratives and PowerPoint slides for everything.

SPEAKER_00 48:28

That's actually a really good point that you just brought up that I feel like I should clarify for for listeners that may not know. In the consulting world, you have a client, you have a team, and the team can be anywhere from at a smaller firm, it could be anywhere from like four or five people all the way up to larger firms, it could be as many as 60 plus people that are on a team that are managing whatever the client needs are. So you have people all the way up at the top that are doing most of the client-facing communication, and then you have the engagement person who's somewhat involved in that as well, but they're really the liaison communicating down to the entirety of the team. So when you are a part of these larger entities and you are a part of these massive conglomerate teams, you are doing a small piece, not that it doesn't still take up 40 hours, but you're doing a small piece of the total work for that consulting effort. So for people that may not know, that's I think what you're referencing is once you get further down in that like grouping, you feel less of that direct or it's less visible, I think, for where you're moving the need.

SPEAKER_01 49:42

You finally got the staff officer job. Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 49:44

No, it is that's I mean, precisely what it felt like was, you know, just uh another staff officer. Like you had there there were some opportunities to like engage with the client, you know, at the lower levels and to coach directors or you know, some of the the lower level managers on any of the things that we were were working what working on, but it wasn't the same kind of vision. Like I realized it would take another probably seven or more years to kind of get into the position where I felt like I could have a lot of those those conversations that I think that's commensurate with fallout, too.

SPEAKER_00 50:17

Is you you had an elite background in the military. You had one of the best degrees you can have for the consulting world, and you still started at a point where you were gonna have to work your way up. And I think that's so challenging for so many people that come from such elite backgrounds to embrace. Was that what led you to leaving the corporate world?

SPEAKER_03 50:40

I don't know. I I mean, I I realized that. And I think, you know, at the time, you know, signing up for or chasing consulting or, you know, especially going into a big firm like that, I was was thinking, okay, yeah, I could definitely have an awesome career here and and build and and not that like you know, I think you do those things, you know, as long as you're enjoying it, but I never jumped into it thinking that I would make partner or um you know wasn't focused on that, I guess. I think I realized the work that it would take, all the sacrifices that would have to be made on on the personal side and and realized that you know, as long as my wife was still in the the military and as long as you know I had kids and and other competing priorities in life, I mean, the biggest thing that pulled me away from you know working at McKinsey and and everything that I was doing is really, you know, another issue with my leg and and having yet another, I guess, flare-up of the bone infection that led to another revision surgery in in March of 25. And so, you know, when that kind of crept in and prevented me from being able to travel or travel wearing a prosthetic and showing up to a client's side a couple of times on crutches and having to, you know, put the crutches in the bag as part of like my normal travel kit, the amount of time that everything else, you know, added on to managing wounds and everything else like that that that I discovered just it continue to compound and and make life just that much more difficult, especially when I was already, you know, all over the place and adding a another kid and and everything else like that was just kind of like that, I want to say breaking point, but it definitely, you know, made me realize, okay, what what do I have to do to to make life sustainable, to continue moving forward? And I think, you know, leaving this last March like was I wouldn't say difficult, but it was was one of those things where it's like I I just would end up breaking myself off physically to continue doing what I was doing or what I assessed as like something that needed to be done to be able to continue moving on that that same sort of trajectory.

SPEAKER_00 52:52

And again, that's another great call out. I think when when I met Herb and was working in consulting, I was coming home to unpack and doing the laundry and preparing to pack again. And Herb was like, Hey, what what's going on? Is this like an always thing? It's like, yeah, that's kind of the nature of the beast. If you want to be in a position where you're able to move upward in that upward trajectory, that ain't gonna work. Yeah, we made some changes, obviously. But that ain't gonna work. Never never happier that we have. And it it sounds like for yourself as well, you just had that, you know, when you realize the lack of work-life balance that is prevalent for most in that industry. It's not uncommon for for those of us that have other life needs to say, hey, this is probably not going to be a continued match. So now it sounds like you are thriving and enjoying your time that you have at home with the kids and kind of assessing and taking some time. And some might even say you're first for the first time taking time to process everything.

SPEAKER_03 54:03

Yeah, I I think it's it's been healthy to have the time and some of the space to be able to process the the injury and the accident and kind of really the last eight years worth of medical ups and downs that I've had.

SPEAKER_00 54:17

Is that common, by the way, for people that are amputees or just because it was on a dirty Clarksville street?

SPEAKER_03 54:25

I mean, that's what I like to think. Like and to answer a question, you know, is it common? I I don't think so. I I think one of the things that I've come to respect is like every amputee and every amputation is different. They result out, you know, different reasons, you know, different complications. Every like you know, everybody is unique, everybody, every story is is is unique, everybody tolerates prosthetics differently or tolerates different um aspects of being an amputee differently. And so it's hard for me to speak on like the commonality or like is something, you know, what what is normal? Like there there isn't any normal.

SPEAKER_00 55:06

I think there's someone that we all know in common, Amanda Seward, I think is the last name. And when you talk, when you just mentioned how people handle things differently, at one point we were at a gala, and there was a very tight space in between the um tables, and her chair kind of backed up to where the waiters and waitresses were bumping into her. And she tired easily of that after, you know, a little while, rightfully. So her solution was she took off her prosthetic leg and she built a bridge right there to block it so that they couldn't get through it. No one's done no one was gonna touch it. No one's gonna touch it. She just has this abundance of humor and just you know, just her way of of handling it, you know, is is Amanda's way.

SPEAKER_03 55:59

Well, I think that's what that's what a lot of us end up doing is finding ways to you know make light or inject levity where where you can to kind of the those downsides or the things that you know make life shit sometimes.

SPEAKER_00 56:12

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 56:13

That makes it makes sense. Check us out Liberty Speaks, LibertySpeaks.com. I didn't put the W's in there for you. Uh if you want to hire a speaker, content creators, check us out. Obviously, that's our company bringing you the show. But really, you've reinvented yourself and are still doing that multiple times. I guess what have you learned from all this? Especially the last eight years. That's a lot of reinventions.

SPEAKER_03 56:38

You know, all the different reinventions or pivots. My life story is is one where like these last eight years have been filled with a lot of resilience and a lot of like trying to find silver linings or trying to find ways to distract me from any of the other chaos that that might be injected into kind of the medical saga or any of the other things that you know I might be be dealing with. All of that sort of comes from in my experiences growing up and a lot of the the the parts of my story or the parts of my life that you know aren't always up front or not a lot of people would know about kind of how I've been able to to kind of stay strong through all the the shit really that that you know I've been been through. Um but I would I would say for me like that mindset is is just you know keep moving. Like you know, you have to to be or have a specific bias towards action, to to make decisions and to be proactive about the things that you can be proactive about, to continue to to really like give yourself that grace that you need in times when you you need that time and space, that it's just I think afforded me that that ability to kind of see maybe or or like be open to a direction that you know doors opening or or being able to test some ideas just based on opportunities that that present themselves. And I think that's you know ultimately what's what sort of led me at least a lot of like the path post-military been around, okay, you know, this sounds like a really good program because you know, there's a program or a scholarship that you know gives you connection with the community and is for veterans and does you know X, Y, or Z and like something like that appealed to me, so I chased it. And you know, that opened up doors or like connections to people inside of you know, a firm which hasn't, you know, historically hired people out of the program that I I was in. And, you know, that opened a lot of doors in terms of you know client relationships or being able to have conversations or connect with other veterans at the firm that you know have informed kind of the the biggest missing piece of of the transition and allowed me to to really see you know what's important in the next stages of life and in the next stages of a of a professional career. And so it fe I feel like all of those things just kind of build on one another. And amid all of that chaos, your body has a vote, like you know, other you know, lingering things that you know I would say probably trace all the way back to that dirty intersection in Clarksville, you know, those are things that that continue to kind of pop up here or there or limit me in ways that I'm not used to being limited, and you know, trying to figure out what adaptations or what other things I can do to to address that is just a a part of part of that that life and and my journey at this point.

SPEAKER_01 59:50

Yeah, I love it. I mean you've done, I'll be honest, you've done more in the last eight years, and I have two legs that allegedly worked fine, and you've done more in the last I mean, from you know, all the athletic stuff you've done competing in different events sticks out to me as your positive attitude. I'm sure it's not always positive. Your grit. I mean, what advice do you have for people who are facing challenges? Because let's be real, uh these are my words. I think everyone faces challenges, but I think most people do not compare to what you've been through. So what advice could you give to people?

SPEAKER_03 1:00:26

Advice is always one of those things I I don't feel qualified to give any kind of advice. I can only give kind of the snapshot of you know what I've had to explore or overcome in the way that I slice things. I I I think I try to be very pragmatic in the way that I approach problems. Try to look at it from a range of viewpoints. I try to, you know, red team it, if you will. I try to, you know, think of all the ways that, okay, you know, this could go wrong or it could, you know, turn out pretty well, or, you know, what are the things that are are most likely to impact or continue to steer in in any situation and and address those first, spend the majority of my time thinking about the most pressing things. If people can step back and and take a second to analyze a situation, look at it from a few different viewpoints, they'll they'll probably uncover some things that they wouldn't initially think about or wouldn't, you know, initially consider if they just jumped into action. I I call you know, you can't just sit back and let the world happen to you, but at the same time, like, you know, jumping into something or making a knee-jerk reaction or or a rash decision can kind of lead you down the wrong wrong way even further. So having that, I don't know, I call it tactical patience to to sit, assess the situation, gather, you know, as much data as you need to be able to make an informed decision and and drive on and execute, like that's the the best advice I think that you know people have given me and and what I would pass on to anybody else that might be be dealing with a difficult situation. I mean, for example, you know, when it came to this most recent sort of flare-up of a bone infection back in 2025 or the tail part of 2024, I realized like, okay, I I knew that like I wasn't, I guess, taken off guard as much because I knew there was always like a possibility in the back of my head just based on everything that I'd been through. So I wasn't quick to say, like, okay, let's just, you know, we need to go right away and and have another revision or like at that point convert to a different level of amputation. And I was like, okay, what are the the true options? Like what what are the things that I can consider? And having a couple of different touch points with providers or orthopedic surgeons or plastic surgeons or people that could be a part of you know, whatever the the next degree of intervention I needed gonna be, and and gathering that information and then maybe sitting for a couple hours and and arguing different cases and you know, ultimately leading to the decision that that I executed and one that I think, you know, even though it's still an ongoing issue, I'm happy sort of in the position that I'm at where I'm still a baloney amputee, you know, I still have some degree of function, but at the same time, it's not one where it's like, you know, I regret or or have any regrets about having made a decision to amputate higher or still dealing with other stuff, or you know, just didn't do anything and you know it festered and got a lot worse or something like that. So like in those situations, being able to sit and and have the the ability to analyze and accumulate the data and and think through it, I guess query stakeholders, like I mean family flags.

SPEAKER_01 1:03:58

Like a systems engineer.

SPEAKER_03 1:03:59

Yeah, exactly. Like it, you know, I approach approach things as if if if you know I was assessing a system, it's just the way that my mind works.

SPEAKER_00 1:04:06

Shocking. No, that's awesome. Gosh.

SPEAKER_01 1:04:13

What do you value most in life?

SPEAKER_03 1:04:15

What do I value most in life? I think at the stage in life that I'm at right now, I think I value relationships, family, and health the most. I I think it's it's hard to really pick like a clear winner because I I think so much of our life is is built on family and relationships and being able to value the people and the things that are most important in your life will really carry you through everything else. And that just affords you the ability to value your time and value you know being present with everything that you you need to attend to.

SPEAKER_00 1:04:58

I do love the way that Hans asks that question.

SPEAKER_01 1:05:01

No, we we appreciate you. That'd be relationship time, yeah, family coming here and being on the show. That means a lot to us.

SPEAKER_00 1:05:08

And we value the relationship and the relationships of the people that have connected us with you. Subscribe, like, and comment, and don't forget to set those notifications. We'll see you next week with another special guest.

SPEAKER_01 1:05:22

Until then, own your journey.