Why First Responders Need a Different Kind of Treatment | CEO Joel Edwards

In this episode, Chris Logan sits down with Joel Edwards, CEO of First Responder Wellness, to talk about the story, mission, and heart behind FRW.

Joel shares how his own recovery journey shaped the way he views treatment, why traditional treatment models often fall short, and how First Responder Wellness was built to provide a different kind of care for those who serve our communities.

From building trust with departments to creating a place where first responders can be honest, supported, and understood, this conversation gives a deeper look at why FRW exists and what it means to walk with first responders through some of the hardest moments of their lives.

For confidential support, or simply to learn more with no commitment, contact us:
https://frhealth.com/
888-443-4898

Transcript

SPEAKER_00 0:00

First responders are an important part of our lives, whether we like it or not. When you pick up the phone or ask for help, a first responder is showing up for you in that moment of need. And now that's your worst day, and they're experiencing that day in and day out, and day in and day out. We want to be there for our first responders on their worst day. We recognize what you guys and gals go through. Because raise your hand for help sucks.

SPEAKER_01 0:23

Yes.

SPEAKER_00 0:23

It's scary. Personally, I can relate to that. But I'm all the more better because of it.

SPEAKER_03 0:28

Sure.

SPEAKER_00 0:29

Because in retrospect, my life sucked even more before I went to treatment.

SPEAKER_02 1:02

Also the director of clinical operations here at First Responder Wellness. If you are not familiar with what First Responder Wellness is, we are a treatment organization dedicated to treating first responders here in Newport Beach for post-traumatic stress, addiction, and all the things that come with the stressors of being a first responder. Today, back by popular demand, we talked a little bit about the Ragnar run last time he was here. But Joel Edwards is here with us today to talk to us a little bit about who he is, uh why he does what he does, how he how it is that he does what he does, and a little bit about maybe some hopes and goals for the future of uh first responder wellness. So welcome back, Joel. Um yeah, it's good to see you. Joel's fresh off the Ragnar race. So um, you know, he talked me into driving. So we talked a little bit about um the Ragnar race the last time you were here, and uh so he he he kind of convinced me. I get a phone call. On a scale from one to ten, he says, How happy would you be to drive? And I'm like, So you need a driver. He's like, Yeah. So I agreed to do it, and immediately when I hung up, I was like, What have I done? Like 36 hours of driving just does not sound like fun.

SPEAKER_00 2:15

Uh beats 36 hours of running.

SPEAKER_02 2:18

It does beat 36 hours of running because I was witness to that. But I tell you what, I see why it is that you're so passionate about doing it. Um, one, for the cause, you know, which is great. But two, uh, that's a pretty good kind of uh adventure there, man. Like there's a lot going on, there's teams running around everywhere, but it's a pretty cool community of people, you know, kind of putting that stuff together and doing what they're doing. So, you know, um I can see, definitely see why you do it. And uh I'm game, dude. I don't know if I'll be running or driving, but uh I definitely commitment here now not making a commitment here uh where you guys can rewind the video and be like you said, but I am committing to being involved next year for sure. Uh whether that's driving or running, I have not made up my mind, but that's definitely progress because at this point, up until this point, I have been absolutely like not not even considering it. But uh it was such a good time, and it was really for a great cause. I could see myself being involved. So um, how was it for you? Did you do well? Did you have fun?

SPEAKER_00 3:23

Yeah, I had a lot of fun. This is our fifth, fifth one. So we've got three roads and two trails, and so uh this was our biggest team, and we had 24 runners this year. 400 miles. Yeah. What was it, 72 exchanges? Like we had a we had a good contingent of people out there. It was uh it was fun. My favorite part is uh all the people like you who I've been trying to convince to do this for years on you have every excuse under the sun if I'm not ready or whatever else. And it's like they get out there and leg one, they're like, okay, that was cool. Then leg two, it's you know, it's two o'clock in the morning, they're like, oh my god, I want to do this again. Leg three, they're like, I'm not coming back, and then yeah, Monday morning come to the office like, can I sign off the next one? Yeah, so it's cool to see people like go through that progression and do something they didn't think they could do, yeah, and have that kind of big win for themselves individually, but then also to see their van mates and the rest of the team kind of rally around them and hey dude, you can do this, and cheering on, you know, you know, the feedback I got from you is like hype man, right? Oh yeah, pipe them up, and that's all it takes. You just you know, three in the morning, you run down the PCH, and all of a sudden there's five of your van mates just hanging out the window yelling. Hooping and all oh yeah. You go. So that's cool, it's a great experience. Um, obviously the cause is amazing, but um yeah, just doing something like that's you know, it's not something that's on everybody's bucket list. No, it's not to go run for 36 hours, sleep in a van, yeah, maybe sleep, you know, like it's maybe sleep. Or we sleep this year. We say I slept in the grass park for about an hour. Yeah, I think I slept in a high school gymnasium for two hours. Yeah, it's yeah, it's part of it.

SPEAKER_02 5:00

No, and it was and that is, it's the whole experience, right? Just I was just driving, which was really cool. Um, and just you know, getting to pick them up and drop them off and you know, get them waters and dust them off and hype them up and give them an attaboy and send them off on the next run. But um, you could just really see all of this community just kind of rallying around. I mean, you know, you go by other vans, they're honking, they're waving, you're seeing people, you know, when you're stopping for gas, whatever's going on, or at the next exchange, and everybody's just having a good time, you know. So it really was a really positive experience. My van crushed it, dude. They were just, you know, and you and I were kind of talking a little bit about it before. It was like you do the the these big things with the wrong people, and you can just be miserable, you know. And dude, these guys and girls were just having a blast, and so it was really easy to to go along. So great experience.

SPEAKER_00 5:53

My share grind is like 100% something you kind of have in common with these people forever now. Like, hey, we did this together, and it's like this, it's yeah, it's cool.

SPEAKER_02 6:02

It's kind of like what are you gonna complain about? We're all miserable, dude. Like, nobody wants to haven't showered, having slept, living off, you know, protein bars and and uh hydration stuff. So it was great. Yeah, it was uh it was a great experience. So so we're here today to learn a little bit more about you, right? You personally and kind of kind of who you are and and what it is that you, you know, what it is that drives you to do what it is uh that you're doing. So tell us a little bit about Joel Edwards growing up.

SPEAKER_00 6:31

All right, Joel Edwards growing up. I'm a NorCal kid, born and raised in Sacramento, California. Uh so you know, growing up, I was an outdoors kid. You know, I got a lot of my um life experiences through Cub Scouts, Boy Scouts, camping, doing all the outdoor stuff, um, a couple with sports and those types of things, obviously running a little bit when I was a little bit younger, but you know, growing up in Northern California versus where I raised my child now here in Southern California is uh and for anyone from NorthCal, it's a hella hella different.

SPEAKER_01 7:08

Hella, that's right.

SPEAKER_00 7:09

So it's just different. You know, I like uh I love the slower pace that I had up there. Um yeah, growing up, I think I was your kind of standard latch key kid, you know, walk to school, come home to the babysitter after school at the you know, the neighbor's house, wait for mom and dad to come home from work, pick me up. Yeah. Just kind of did life like that. And um I realized early on I did not want to stay in Northern California. So uh when college time came around, I kind of worked my way down south. I wound up in San Luis Sabisville at Cal Poly, which thank God I went then because I could never get in now. But you know, it was interesting at that time you had like declare your major as a freshman, so I had no idea what the hell I wanted to do. So I've picked business. Business seemed easy-ish, seemed very general, something I could do with my life. So did the business route and um I did the college thing, the frat thing, all those things you're supposed to do, chucked all those boxes, including drugs and alcohol, and those things slowly took over everything else. But I managed to get out of college alive, so it was fantastic. Um, but I used that opportunity to uh do a lot of other things, and and by that I mean I kind of realized that um I wanted to retire before I went to work. So my four-year degree turned into a six-year degree, which included like a year living overseas in Europe and traveling and bartending and kind of experiencing other cultures, um, which I think helped prepare me for life when I came back. And then when I came back, I I was like, oh my god, I need like six more units and I'll get a second degree. So I stayed another year because why not? Right. And so I finally finally graduated with my degree in business and a degree in in industrial technology. And then I got the call. So I get a call from my buddy who graduated the year before. He's like, Hey dude, what are you doing? I said, Oh, I'm getting ready to graduate. And he's like, uh, you want to do something? I was like, Yeah, I always want to do something. He's like, Well, dad's settled his business and he wants to go sail around the world. Do you want to come with us? I was like, Yeah. So I had, you know, you talk about those like opportunity knocks, you gotta go calling. It's like, okay, can I graduate from college in June and go, you know, go start my career lacquer there, or can I go travel the world again? So I went and did that and I lived on a 50-foot sailboat for 10 months uh with my best friend and his dad. And we um sailed the Mediterranean and across the Atlantic and the Caribbean and just lived in flip-flops and board shorts and tan skin, and you know, I had my grizzly Adams beard back when it was all still brown and not gray anymore. And I just did that, and I just soaked up the culture and just chilling, kind of delaying real life for as long as humanly possible. And then fortunately I had the opportunity uh to bring my dad out while he was still alive, and he got to sail across the Atlantic Ocean with us, and that was being a dad now was a pretty um amazing experience to have happened, to spend that kind of time with your dad where he's no longer your dad, he's kind of like your on equal playing field. So that was really cool. Um so then it was like I came back and you know, reality set in. Back to Sacramento and like shaved my beard and put on shoes for the first time in almost a year. I was like, okay, now what? So I'm up here in Orange County. Orange County in the early 2000s was like the mortgage capital of the world. You know, subprime for those people that were alive and around back then was big, and so I, you know, went from flip-flops and board shorts to a suit and tie.

SPEAKER_01 10:30

Suit and tie.

SPEAKER_00 10:32

And did that for a while, which just fueled um my addictions, like a better term. I mean, I was 25 years old back then making six figures, making more money than my parents.

SPEAKER_01 10:42

Like it was just something that and it was par for the course with what you're doing, you know, drinking, partying, yeah.

SPEAKER_00 10:53

So that was only sustainable for so so long. Um and then in 2008 I basically just buried myself. Um and I wound up in rehab. So I checked into Hogue Hospital here in Newport Beach. Um and that's when like enough was enough. Yeah. I couldn't do alcohol anymore, I couldn't do cocaine, I was 250 pounds, my cholesterol was 300 plus, I was a disaster of a human. Um I was 28, 29 years old, and uh going nowhere fast, so I needed uh I needed the restart. Um went uh and did uh 60 days of treatment, then uh three or four months of sober living.

SPEAKER_01 11:37

Interesting.

SPEAKER_00 11:38

Did all the things you're supposed to do, got a sponsor, did AA, went and got my get well job and sales again, which was stupid, but whatever. Uh switched my addiction to diet Pepsi and ice cream uh because I missed the sugar. Yeah, and uh did that for a year and then got a phone call from my mom, who was uh a school psychologist. She's like, dude, you're almost 30, like, what are you gonna do? I was like, I have no clue. And she's like, Well, you know, let me take you back to your childhood and here's what you're good at and here's what you enjoyed, and you're always good with people. So at her kind of nudge slash push slash what else am I gonna do with my life, I went back to school, got my clinical credentials and substance abuse counseling, and um at the time down here in Orange County, I just called up every single treatment center and begged and pleaded for an internship, yeah, and finally got one and uh humbled myself and just started being addiction counselor. Nice. I was 30 years old, making 14 bucks an hour, yeah, right, earning my hours, just uh a life change. Um I was super grateful, and that's kind of also what spurred my health changes, you know. As I said earlier, I was a pretty heavy set kid, heavy set guy. So I started running, eating well, um, got in shape, and as I got in shape, my head got in shape, my career started to grow, and I started um thinking like I used to sit in this group that these people run and I used to be on the other side where this counselor was, and like at the time, what did I want to have done differently? And what brought me to joy as a kid that I stopped doing in my addiction. And I you know realized that it was outdoor stuff, being connected with nature, backpacking, but you know, fortunately down here you can be on the water up in Sacramento or down on the you're on the river. So it was those types of things. So I started thinking, okay, can I take my business degree and my clinical degrees and put those together somehow to make something different in the treatment center space?

SPEAKER_03 13:49

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 13:51

So I did what anyone would do, I guess, and I called up a bunch of wilderness programs on the East Coast to say, hey, can I fly out there and just shadow you guys for a while? And so I went out to three or four different wilderness programs on the East Coast and in Utah, and I just lived on the land with the patients out there in the middle of nowhere. And I said, Okay, I can take this model and bring it back here to Southern California. And so I started the California's first um PHP program with wilderness therapy. Yeah. So we called it the adventure program.

SPEAKER_03 14:20

Adventure programs.

SPEAKER_02 14:21

And that in that that's pretty cool because for a lot of people, they they I mean, that's kind of a thing now, right? Like most programs, that is there, but the early 2000s, the the you know, late 90s, treatment was very sterile, it was very clinical, it was very by the book. You do the groups, you do the things, right? There was very little, you know, maybe you'll get an outing here or there. You guys will go to the movies or something, but there wasn't a lot of this experiential stuff that you brought into it, so that's pretty cool. I did want to ask, though, interesting enough, did you have any experience sailing before you jumped on that boat?

SPEAKER_00 14:58

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 14:58

Okay. That's pretty brave, dude.

SPEAKER_00 15:02

My buddy sent me a book before we left. Over, and it was like the dummy's guide to sailing. Yeah. Uh, so that was my experience. Uh, and you know, there's a lot of nautical terms.

SPEAKER_03 15:18

Sure.

SPEAKER_00 15:19

And no, not really hit. So it's like, you know, grab the thing. So we had our own nautical terms. Grab the thing, Majig, you know, you go around another stairs, like, what the heck are you guys talking about? And for like, we know exactly what we're talking about. Yeah. And you figure it out. Yeah. Like anything else that I've done in life, you just kind of figure it out.

SPEAKER_02 15:35

Nice. Yeah. And so you you you battled through your own addictions, right? And then and kind of got to that place of like, which is very common, right? For uh those of us who who have uh taken our retirement on the front end and then burn our life down. Uh, you find yourself at 30 something years old looking out at the world, like, what's next, right? Like, I can't, I can't drink, I can't do drugs, like the party's over. Now I'm just a sad 30-year-old who's trying to hang around, right? It's kind of cool when you're in your 20s. Like it's a little it's a little more acceptable, it's easier to get away with, I should say. And there's not a lot of people going, hey man, you're 30 something years old. What are you doing? Right. And so now you kind of look at life. And uh, I also love the fact that you talked about as you furthered your own recovery, there was this progression of like, uh, because I don't know if a lot of people understand um early sobriety's rough, man. And you're, you know, you're just trying to, you're just trying to figure it out and survive. And you've taken away all of the the drugs and the alcohol, and many of us, right? I was very much the same. I pick up the spoon, right? I put down the pipe, picked up the fork. Uh, so it was ice cream, you know, drugs no more. It was ice cream and cake and pizzas and whatever I could eat to kind of fill that hole. But there's this, there's this great point where you're miserable there too, right? And it's these points of misery that kind of keep pushing you forward to progress. And so you're looking at things and you're like, okay, what am I gonna do? Mom says, Hey, you've always been good with people, this, that, and the other. Okay, great. All right, well, I'll be a substance abuse counselor, which is a very common route for people who have gone through, right? And then this idea of like, hey, I've always loved the wilderness and what brought brought me happiness, and then to have the forefront to think, how would I wanted treatment to be different? You know, what did I want to do differently when I was in treatment? And then kind of put those things together. So, and again, that's pretty cool because that was not a thing, you know. Uh, it was AA, N A, and you know, Hoague, Betty Ford, like just your meetings, go to group, go to therapy, that's it, sponsor. That's it. There was no big community of let's go and have fun, let's do the hiking and the biking and all that stuff. So that's pretty cool. So you kind of merge those things together, right? So you go out to these wilderness programs and now you find yourself kind of doing that. So, how did that kind of progress from there?

SPEAKER_00 18:03

Well, I think if you uh if you take a look at traditional treatment back in the day, it was four walls in a room, six hours a day.

SPEAKER_02 18:12

A lot of cigarette smoking.

SPEAKER_00 18:13

Yeah, you do your stand, yeah, this is before vape. So you do your standard anger management, coping skills, blah blah blah, which had its thing back there, but you kind of had the same thing day in and day out. And that was great while you're in this little bubble, but it was like, what are we doing to expose people to coping skills that aren't necessarily clinical based that can help improve their life that get them connected with the outdoors? Because I'm a huge believer the outdoors is a very healing, very therapeutic, absolutely. Never had the opportunity to get out there. But for there's a lot of people like probably me and you that our early years we were well connected, and then drugs and alcohol took that away, and then we've got reintroduced to it. Yeah, and I was like, oh my god, I miss this. I know why I love this so much.

SPEAKER_01 19:00

Very much, yeah.

SPEAKER_00 19:00

And then it becomes a part of our active and long-term recovery. So I think for me, noticing that path, I felt that there was probably a lot of other people like that, and the only way to get that into the treatment center kind of space was to just do it and see if it worked. Create it, yeah. And so thankfully, where I worked, I had the support, the financial support, and the the resources to make that happen. And so we would, you know, I grabbed two therapists, a backpack full of UA cups, you know, we'd backpack around Catalina Island, backpack in the Grand Canyon, go whitewater rafting, and like you take these people out of the treatment environment for a week or two at a time. Yep. Expose them this with the the support of a clinician and the support of you know a group around a fire pit and do those kinds of things, and you see someone wake up at five in the morning that's never seen a sunrise, right? Yeah, or you see someone go to bed and you wake them up at midnight so they can see the Milky Way for the first time. Or they challenge themselves and they're jumping out of a tree onto a zip line. Yeah. And the emotive responses they have, that anxiety of, oh my God, my heart racing, you know, you're getting to like kind of do a full-blown check-in while they're up there, like this is what this feels like. A lot of a lot of us, we were so numbed out, we would never felt that before. We already know what that feels like. Yep. But now you get an adrenaline hit, you get an adrenaline rush, you get all these things that happen, and it's like it's super powerful. And so now there's something tangible, not that you have to go whitewater rafting every day for your recovery, but going outside and hugging a tree, going outside and going for a walk, going out and walking the beach and just looking at the ocean for five minutes. It's like those simple little things that we lost in our addiction, getting reintroduced to those, doesn't matter who you are, 26-year-old kid, first responder, you know, retired doctor, like there's that nature connection that's just so powerful. And so I really wanted kind of like with Ragnar, I wanted people to experience that the same way I did, not the same way, but have that experience and have it be for them, but really see their eyes open when I went and did that. And so it was really cool to say it.

SPEAKER_02 21:11

Yeah, and it's when you find something that you become passionate about because of the effect that it's had on you, that's the seed that you want to plant and grow so that other people can, right? So, and to your point, like the outdoors is so therapeutic, just those settings, right? I'm heavily involved with I have a really good friend uh who has a company called Off the Grid Therapy. Uh, and we take guys out for three, three days at a time, like three and a half days, and it's hiking, it's fishing, it's you know, pushing, pushing the limits, getting in cold water, right? Uh, but a lot of very therapeutic stuff just happens at night around those fires, just talking about life, man, and talking about what you're struggling with and getting the support. But there's something about being back out there in nature. Away from all of this stuff. So for you to s have that experience and see that early on and be able to plug that into the the uh the treatment center that you are working at is pretty cool.

SPEAKER_00 22:10

Yeah, and you know to your point, I think that there's the the individual experience of the outdoors, right? But there's also like you just touched on the the communal aspect of the outdoors because full disclosure, I run a treatment program. You work in a treatment program. We can sit here and say all day that like the treatment program is what helps everybody, but you and I both know that it's a very small, small portion. It's it's the community of the form outside of these out of this building, outside of this, that really is what it's all about. We're just the catalyst. So that for me, with the nature and the outdoors and and people sitting around and doing these shared experiences sitting around campfire, that's the healing power. And you can take that really anywhere.

SPEAKER_02 22:54

Yep. And it's such, it's such, and you've experienced this, right? And well, I'll take 12 guys, uh, me and my buddy, and we'll take 12 guys that have never met each other, they don't know each other, we stick them in vans, we drive them out to you know, Bishop or wherever we're going, and now we're hiking together, now we're fishing together, you're getting up in the morning, and you're sitting around just talking about the grind, talking about what you're going through, talking about what sucks, what's hurting, you know, how your marriage is or isn't or whatever's going on. If you've got addictions, we're talking about that stuff. And there's a huge process to that. And then they build this community that they get to go on and do. And I tell these guys this all the time. So they'll talk a lot about like um the community that we have here in our transitional living, right? And they'll say, you know, no offense to you guys, but a lot of the therapy for me really happens. And then no offense taken, it's does it's by design.

SPEAKER_00 23:46

Design of the whole thing.

SPEAKER_02 23:47

It's we do this in a social model so that you guys are kind of forced to get out of isolation, be around each other, and do those things. So yeah, there's huge benefit to that. And the community is what carries you through uh once you're done, too, you know. And so it's pretty cool that you recognize that early on and and kind of created that for uh the treatment center you're working with. It was nice. Yeah. And that's it. Yeah, I bet. Yeah, yeah. It's a big uh far cry from what you're doing now. Uh so you're doing that for a while, and what's happening? You're feeling good about things.

SPEAKER_00 24:20

I think like anything else in life, like that was uh just another step on the path for me. And as you become more and more successful, like you work your way up the corporate ladder, whatever you want to call it. But for in my case, it was because of what I was doing there, it became really popular. And you mentioned earlier, people started to copy it. And so that I had to be out in the forefront, like talking about why we were good at it. So I became a director of marketing, and thankfully my business background is a market, so I didn't do that. Unfortunately, I had to have somebody else come in and take over the you know monthly outings. Um went on a couple just for quality assurance, but yeah, you know, you grow and you want new challenges because I wasn't gonna be an adventure guy the rest of my life as much as I would love to, but it's not it wasn't reality for me. So that then I became the executive director of the program that I worked at, and I did that for several years, and through that I started making tons of connections in in our space down here in Southern California, and then um I had the opportunity to come to True Recovery uh through a mutual friend that was one of the owners here, and he said, Hey, here's where I'm at. I want to do this thing, and you want to come over? And I said, No, like I'm happy doing what I'm doing. He's like, Okay, well, how about you know we become partners? I said, Okay, that sounds better to me because that's kind of the next natural step. So I came over to True Recovery and you know, brought a lot of those things with me. And um, you know, about a year and I was like, okay, here we are in Southern California, one of 400 treatment programs licensed by the state of California, just in Orange County, right? Right next to South Florida, like those are the two hotels. Yeah. So it's like I we can be one of 400, or how do we become one of one? And so that became kind of the next focus for me is like, what do I need to do to stand out? Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 26:03

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 26:04

Because when you're out there talking about treatment, you know, there's the buzzwords, and we all do, and we have we're all close to the ocean, and we all have you know great food, and we have great houses, and we all do individualized treatment, and we all do a couple of things. The latest and the greatest, the next thing.

SPEAKER_01 26:19

Yep.

SPEAKER_00 26:20

And so that's where I had the opportunity. I met with uh Dr. Odom, the chief clinical officer of first responder wellness, and at the time he owned um Simple Recovery. Yep. And over the course of a couple meetings, it was like, hey, like, what do you think about combining our programs? He at the time had a little track of first responders, four or five guys. They're probably all there on scholarship, if I recall correctly. It was like, you know, you were there, you remember what it was like, and I was like, okay, uh, this could be it, right? Yeah. And so again, like anything else, it was like, let's do it. Yeah. What's the worst that's gonna happen? Yeah, we're not gonna fail, just we're gonna maybe not succeed on the first responder spot, but yeah, it will or it won't. We need to do treatment regardless. Exactly. So we joined our organizations and we spent the next two years. Uh, you know, you're a big part of that, our other partner, Devin, was a huge part of that. Is you know, we started taking our non-first responder program and using the resources that kicked off to grow the first responder side of stuff. And so that was all the outreach that we spent two years doing, building the trust of the departments that we now work with. And it was our team going out there and talking about what we do and clients that came through the first responder program going back and being our biggest advocates and saving lives and rebuilding families and getting guys and gals back to work and not having them medically retire, not have them go out of work complicated, getting them back to where they had always wanted to be. Um and we had some interesting challenges. Obviously, we had the pandemic, and we had all kinds of stuff, man.

SPEAKER_03 27:55

It was crazy.

SPEAKER_00 27:56

Defund the police and all the anti-first responder stuff that happened, but in spite of all that, you know, the need in the first responder community continued to grow.

SPEAKER_01 28:05

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 28:05

Um stigma went down. It became okay to ask for help. It was still a challenge to accept help. Sure. But um we just really focused on creating a space and a place where first responders could come in and be authentic. And it was weird because we had a first responder program downstairs in this building, and upstairs we had the traditional program. We were very mindful of the overlap.

SPEAKER_01 28:32

That was the greatest.

SPEAKER_00 28:34

You couldn't tell who's a first responder who wasn't when I was in uniform. Yeah, you know, usually tell who someone were because they had the mustache, but that was really about it. Yeah. The big trucks. But aside from that, it was everyone kind of realized like we're all kind of the same.

SPEAKER_01 28:48

It's all the same stuff, yeah.

SPEAKER_00 28:50

Um and so I think that novelty finally was like, okay, we're at the point in in early 2021 where it was like, if we're gonna do this, now's the time.

SPEAKER_01 29:00

We gotta do it.

SPEAKER_00 29:01

So we decided as an organization to shut down our traditional program, we're fur out all of our clients. And it was like, here we go, it's make the break time. Yeah, and out of that grew firstborn of wellness as it is today. Yeah. And so we've gone from four or five guys on scholarship to eighty or ninety people in treatment on any given day. We've got, you know, programs up in Washington, we've got all these other things that we're doing now because of that desire back then to help.

SPEAKER_02 29:32

Yeah. And it's really cool to see because you take two visionaries such as yourself and Dr. Odom, and you know, I'm a firm believer in God. God brings you guys together, and this whole thing starts to emerge, right? And so you have two very passionate people about recovery in in specific, right? Like both of you guys were really, and I've been working with him since 2014, and so I've always known to your point, like we know how to do treatment, like, and so putting lives back together, putting families back together, after you know, having walked through that stuff yourself, there's just there's a huge reward in that, right? And so if you're blessed enough to be able to have that also pay your bills, it's a great thing, you know. And so to put these two companies together and then have first responder wellness born out of it is really cool. Um, and yeah, it there were some trials and tribulations for sure, man. I mean, there were, you know, there was the pandemic, there was try trying to run two programs at the same time, um and there was a lot that was happening, but you know what? I think everybody at the core had the mission in, you know, had the same mission in mind, and I I feel like that's really what kind of drove everything.

SPEAKER_00 30:52

Um Well, you know Devin O'Day, our chief development.

SPEAKER_02 30:55

I certainly do.

SPEAKER_00 30:56

You know, in the early days, I used to go to his office and I'd be like, hey bro, uh, you only got five admas this month. What are you doing? You're not paying the bills, like shut the program down. And I would like in the back of my head be like, oh my god, I hope this isn't true. And I'd be like, dude, you got like 90 days to turn around. And he would be like, I got this, dude. I got this. And like Devin had this firm belief, and it tells you to talk to like the power of like positive thinking, right? Yeah, we're gonna do this, we're gonna make it. And he and his team just set forth and built so many relationships. And then, you know, Michael, our executive director, was very much the like, if we're gonna grow this, we need to grow it systematically and have the systems in place. So he like has just has all these chess pieces together to make sure that everything happens. And Dr. Owen with his clinical oversight, like, we're gonna focus on the trauma, focus on the trauma, focus on the problem. Because who really cares if you get sober? If you address internet mental health issues, who cares, right? So it was that that trauma focus, and then you were like the man of the people, right? Yep, you're in with these guys and gals every single day. Yeah, and that's like like that that combined effect of you know, four or five people with that common mission is what has made us successful. 100%. And we brought in a lot of other people along the way, like Shannon R. Druckford Missions, who's just super passionate and can talk to any family member or client or anything and talk to them. Like, we just have these people that got introduced to the organization that have fallen in love with what we do. Yeah, and you know, they speak to the stuff on the wall, they're confidential, trusted, and effective. Like we do all those things and we stand behind it. And it's been cool to see where that has led first responder wellness, the counseling team, yeah, shift, our health, now the foundation that does right, all these things tell first responders.

SPEAKER_02 32:41

It's really cool. It's and it's it's it's so I don't know, it's really difficult to explain. I mean, I've always had a pride in being somebody who's come through uh my own addictions and then been able to help people. Like there was always a very good belief and a feeling that came with that, right? But for whatever reason, when it was brought to me that this was the population that we were gonna help, I had two thoughts in mind, like, what? And then, you know, and then the second thing was as the more I learned about it, and the more I understood how difficult it is for them to actually get quality help, get any help, first off, quality help, uh, ask for help and all of those things. And it only it was a very short period of time in working with them that I realized, like, yeah, this is. And I remember being at Paisley Um and coming home and my wife saying, like, you know, how's everything going? What do you, you know, what do you think? And I said, This is where God wants me right now. I said, I'm telling you right now, this is the thing, this is this is the the thing that is going to propel our lives forward. And I knew it in that moment for whatever reason. Um and it has been. It has been the thing that has propelled me to grow so much in you know, in my personal life, in my professional life, um, and it's just this want to help this population. And there's so much pride that comes with, you know, it's like I've always been grateful to to do treatment, but for whatever reason, you know, when you sit back and people go, you do what? Like that's really cool, you know. And then the gratitude that they have for what it is that we've been able to put together and provide them, it's just like this, like nothing else, you know. I mean, helping a 20-something-year-old kid get back to life, listen, there's some pride in that, and they'll give you a hug and be like, hey, but these guys are like, dude, you literally saved my life. Like, you have no idea. You know, I had a gun in my mouth three months ago, and I have every want and need to live today. And you guys are a huge part of that.

SPEAKER_00 34:59

It's a phone call I got yesterday from one of the alumni that did the Ragnar run with us. He's like, hey, you don't know this, but a year ago when you guys reached out, someone on our team reached out for me to run, and I literally had a gun in my mouth because I was ready to kill myself. Yeah, and I went up calling the admissions line instead of doing Ragnar. Spent you know, three or four months at the treatment center, and now I got the phone call again this year from the alumni coordinator about a volunteer run, it's the best thing I could have ever done because now I've come full circle.

SPEAKER_02 35:24

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 35:24

I was like, dude, that's pretty cool.

SPEAKER_02 35:26

Yeah, it's pretty cool. Yeah. So what do you feel like for you has been kind of your I mean, I know you love all of it, but what is the one, like, what is your favorite part of this whole journey? What is your favorite part of like what it is that you're doing now?

SPEAKER_00 35:44

I think what I'm able to take a moment step back, right? Like, I'm not the face of this organization. That's you, that's Dr. Odom, that's Devin. They're the people that are out there in the front, and I have no desire to be that person. That's not who I am as a human. But I take pride in ensuring that as an organization we can deliver on all the things that we say we're going to do. You know, it's my job, for lack of better term, to make sure that there's meals, there's gas in the vans, that we've got enough housing to take care of everybody, that we're paying our people enough to keep good town around, that you know, when the departments have an issue, I'm there to fix it or solve it for them or make it right or wherever else it might be. So kind of like the behind the scenes person that keeps it all afloat so no one has to worry about anything else. Like the clinicians can take care of our clients and not have to worry about anything else. Yeah, the support staff can support our clients and take care of them because as we mentioned earlier, that's where all the healing happens, is outside of this place, right? You know, the finance team can do their job and make sure we get paid so we can continue to take care of people, right? Like my pride is in making sure all that stuff happens, yeah, and it works. And then, you know, at the end of the day, I love hearing the success stories of us returning people to work or you know, dropping in a family program and seeing lives change, but yeah, I don't need uh recognition or those kinds of things. It's like my wife's like, you know, how's your day? Oh, it's pretty good. What does that mean? That means a lot actually. I just don't really know how to explain it. And they're like, I don't really talk about work too much, but they people hear like what like you said, like they hear what you actually do, and it's like, oh my god, like yeah, and so now here we are. The first part of Wells really started in 2020, we shut everything down. Here we are five years later, and to look at where we were then that's crazy, and where we are now, yeah, and where we want to go. Yeah, that's pretty cool, dude. Yeah, I don't know how to explain it.

SPEAKER_02 37:42

No, it's amazing.

SPEAKER_00 37:43

Like, I can't explain it, I guess.

SPEAKER_02 37:45

Yeah, no, it really is. And it's uh what has seemed like 20 years, you know, on some level. And I I know you can understand that doing what's what it is five years ago, it's all ground. Yeah. Um, and then to see it, you know, and to know like, okay, man, there this is this is a real thing, and we're doing some some real uh work here, and it's benefiting so many people across the board. So, you know, whether or not you're the face of this thing or the guy who's in the background, I deeply appreciate what you do and how it is that you do it, because it it is that confidence in you that gives me the confidence to be able to step out there and say, no, this is who we are and this is what we're doing. Because with this population, that there's so much to be said about that. You have to be transparent, and you have if you don't show up and do the things that you said you're gonna do, you're done. Yeah, you're done, you're gonna sink the ship. And so, me knowing that, hey, I can confidently say from the top down, this organization is exactly what it says it is 100%. And so I appreciate you doing the things that you do, the way that you do it. Um, you know, I wasn't quite sure in the beginning how it was gonna go. You know, I don't know if you remember kind of some of those early conversations. Um, but it was kind of like, you know, I said, hey, if you're gonna take this thing away from me, man, don't rip it out of my hands because I feel like I've I've you know I've I've built this thing, you know, a big part of it. And um, you know, to see where our relationship is today, I deeply appreciate you and how it is that you've done things, and I have such a a different respect for who you are and what it is that you do, and um how it is that you've you know put all of this together and been a big part of that. So I appreciate that.

SPEAKER_00 39:32

Um for those of you that don't know, every morning about 6 30 a.m., I get a half-naked video of Chris Logan on my cell phone because I'm part of a men's coal plunge group. So I've met every morning for accountability of Chris in 35, 34 degree water in his backyard, basically dunking his head with steam coming off of his head and saying, let's F and go. And that's like the wake-up call. So the relationship has grown a little bit. Yeah, we're good.

SPEAKER_02 40:05

Yeah, I mean, you're doing it now, right? Like, yeah, I get listen, that's a two-way street. Like, it's not just me sitting in half naked pictures. Yeah, he's a late you're a late grinder. Yeah. Um, but yeah, so it it's you know, it's it's really cool to see how how things have transpired. And you know, again, it's just this wonderful confidence in in who we are and what we're doing, and you're a huge part of that. And so I think it's important for people to see see you and know who you are and what it is that you do, you know, even if it's not out there in the front, that it's important that people understand, you know, the quality of people that are behind this organization, you know, because the reality is that treat the treatment industry is a very grimy industry, you know, and a lot of a lot of people want to say that, but it's unfortunate. It doesn't mean that every treatment center is bad, but unfortunately there are, you know, here in Florida are the Mecca for treatment centers, and there's a treatment center on every corner that opens up and gets shut down because they're doing the wrong things. And so um, when you can look at the people that are that are behind what it is that we're doing, some really top-notch people, you know, who come with a lot of experience, which I think again speaks volumes to how it is that we're able to do the things that we're doing. So um what do you foresee if you can share anything and kind of some of the hopes and futures for what it is that we're doing?

SPEAKER_00 41:30

So I think the biggest thing is you know, the last several years have very much been is this sustainable?

SPEAKER_01 41:36

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 41:38

Can we move the needle? And by that I mean can we help reduce stigma? Can we make it okay to ask for help? Can we prove that how we do treatment actually works? Are clinical outcomes strong? Are we returning people to you know a better quality of life than when they got here? Are we rebuilding families? Are we getting people back on the job? All those things. And I think we've taken this very cautious and slow approach. We easily could have gone out there and opened up a bunch of programs and all that stuff, but it was like, let's get really good at what we do before we do what's next. It took us five years to open up our first out of state location in Seattle late last year, like slow, methodical, right? Make sure we have the process in place, just like anything else. You build too fast, you scale too fast, you implode, right? So we didn't want to we don't want to do that, nor have we done that, knock on wood. So I think as we look over the next five years, it's where is the need? Well, we've been very West Coast heavy. So we look at the Midwest and we look at the East Coast. And if you look at the US population, 60% of the US population is on the East Coast, right? Like so, with that also means there's a big first responder population. So where can we do the most good next? And what does that look like? Is it more residential programs? Is it outpatient or outpatient? It's kind of a combination of those, those, those things, right? Like I think here in Southern California we're pretty much as big as we want to be at this point in time. But you know, we're starting to look at where to go on the East Coast, where to go in the Midwest, and kind of in the next couple of years, what does that look like? Yeah. And as we do that, what other kind of services can we bring? How can we still be good at what we do, but also be innovative and embrace the change that's happening across the first bundle organizations nationwide.

SPEAKER_03 43:23

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 43:24

So I think there's a lot to s be seen where we're gonna go, but I could see another two residential programs in the next five years and three or four more outpatient programs. That's kind of on the on the star charts, if you will, are where we want to be.

SPEAKER_02 43:39

Yeah. Yeah, no, and that's good, you know. And I think Oh, and a bunch of more Ragners. Bunch more Ragnars. Bunch more Ragners. Bunch more Ragners. How many of those things they run a year?

SPEAKER_00 43:48

They're all over the place.

SPEAKER_02 43:49

They're everywhere. Oh geez. I said I I said I have another year. This guy might send me an invite for three weeks. I heard those ones are really cool. Girls that were in the van were like, dude, it's it's a different, it's a different kind of vibe. So I might be interested. It's camping. Yeah, that's what they said. So that might uh we might have to talk about that. So if there's anybody out there watching this video and uh you wanted to give them some sort of message, what would that be?

SPEAKER_00 44:19

You know, I think that's that's a two-sided thing. I think for people that are non-first responders, it's recognizing that first responders are an important part of our lives, whether we like it or not, right? And I don't care what your political affiliation is or which way you lean, but on your worst day, when you pick up the phone or ask for help, a first responder is showing up for you in that moment of need. And they're there for you.

SPEAKER_03 44:44

Yep.

SPEAKER_00 44:44

And now that's your worst day, and they're experiencing that day in and day out, and day in and day out. On the treatment center side of what we do, we want to be there for our first responders on their worst day.

SPEAKER_04 44:58

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 44:59

Hopefully, it doesn't get to their worst day, hopefully we can intervene before them. But if and when that first worst day comes, we want to be that resource for them, right? And then for the first responders that are watching this, it's life happens, shit happens, you can beep that out, whatever you want. But like we recognize what you guys and gals go through.

SPEAKER_04 45:21

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 45:22

I don't have to be, I'm not a first responder, I don't pretend to be a first responder, I don't know exactly what it's like. I just hear the stories and I talk to the guys and gals when they come here so I can relate a little bit, but I don't actually know. I just see what happens when they get here.

SPEAKER_01 45:32

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 45:33

And I can see the the trials and tribulations they've taken to get through. I can see the roadblocks they've had to get through, yeah. Whether it's from their family or their department or whatever else, just to get the help once they've raised their hand. Because raise your hand for help sucks. Yes, it's scary. Yeah, especially if no one supports you in it.

unknown 45:51

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 45:52

Going out alone, right? So it's okay to ask for help. And it's okay when someone tells you you need help to accept that help.

SPEAKER_01 45:59

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 46:00

And it's gonna suck. Yeah, coming to treatment sucks.

SPEAKER_03 46:04

It sure does.

SPEAKER_00 46:05

I mean, personally, I can relate to that.

SPEAKER_03 46:07

Yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_00 46:08

It sucked going to treatment, yeah, but I'm all the more better because of it.

SPEAKER_03 46:12

Sure.

SPEAKER_00 46:13

Because in retrospect, my life sucked even more before I went to treatment. Yeah. And so for anybody watching, like take the opportunity to get well, take the opportunity to get better.

SPEAKER_01 46:23

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 46:24

It will get better if you put in the work.

unknown 46:28

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 46:29

And start running.

SPEAKER_01 46:30

And start running. Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 46:32

And it will get better if you put in the work. I mean, the reality is cultivating and creating change when you're in such turmoil sucks. It's it's a difficult thing to pause your life and to look out at it and think it's come off the tracks, man. And uh something has to be done. You know, nobody ever wants to take a look at that. And but that's the reality of it. And I think there's an added layer as a first responder. So it will get better if we do the work. Um, you know, thank you so much for taking the time. I know you're a busy man. Thank you for sitting down with us, letting us get to know you, sharing a little bit of your knowledge. So we really appreciate that. Yeah, man. You got the finally official invite. I had to send him an official invite, but this is actually your second time. So uh, and maybe we'll make it a third time. So, again, thank you so much for being here. Um, and that will uh wrap us up, ladies and gentlemen. Don't let the stigmas keep you sick and stay resilient.