Exploring Burlington: A Potential Home in the Mountains

Exploring Burlington, Vermont: Could We Live Here?

In this episode of the 'We Should Move Here Travels' podcast, hosts Brittany and Josh dive into their recent trip to Burlington, Vermont. They discuss their scenic drive from Portland, Maine, the stunning Green and White Mountains, and the charms of Burlington as a college town with a vibrant atmosphere. Highlights include a tour of the Ben & Jerry's factory, visits to local breweries, delicious food at various eateries, and fun activities like board games and escape rooms. They also touch on the challenges of the unhoused population and the importance of supporting local businesses. Join them as they reflect on the beauty, culture, and potential of Burlington as a place to live.

00:00 Introduction to the Podcast

00:20 Journey to Vermont

01:43 Exploring Burlington

02:57 Ben & Jerry's Factory Tour

06:02 Winter Wonderland in Burlington

07:07 Breweries and Dining in Burlington

19:10 Escape Rooms and Board Games

20:58 Reflecting on Burlington and Appleton

22:15 Comparing College Experiences

24:08 Appreciating the Beauty of Different Places

26:46 Exploring Vermont's Quality of Life

28:36 Considering a Trip to Canada

33:35 Addressing the Unhoused Population Issue

42:29 Final Thoughts on Burlington

47:42 Planning Future Trips and Wrapping Up

@WSMHtravels

Transcript

brit 0:11

Hello and welcome to the We Should Move Here Travels podcast. My name is Brittany.

josh 0:18

I'm Josh

brit 0:18

and we are your host. Today we are gonna be talking about Vermont. So we went to Vermont on our last stop during our East Coast trip. this was at the beginning of November. Mm-hmm. So it did snow while we were there, but we also did get some colors. So we got the best of both worlds in some ways.

josh 0:41

Yeah. It definitely felt like it. our drive from Portland, Maine, our previous stop on the trip to Burlington, Vermont was just a stunning drive.

brit 0:51

Oh my gosh. The Green Mountains mm-hmm. Are so beautiful. I did not envision them to be that gorgeous.

josh 1:00

Yeah. Yeah. Same. And the White Mountains as well.'cause we went through both mountain ranges. Stunning. So. Oh, is it? Mm-hmm.

brit 1:07

The White Mountains. Ah, okay.

josh 1:09

Well, white and Green Mountains.

brit 1:11

Okay. Because we

josh 1:11

went through two. Yeah.

brit 1:12

Oh, I didn't know where we were, but I loved it.

josh 1:16

But yeah, that was a really stunning drive. We have done a couple road trips now where we've gotten to experience the East coast mountain range, but not beyond the East Coast. And then we've also, talked several times about going through Colorado and going through those mountains and Everywhere we've gone, we just love being in mountains. So it was a great, five-ish hour drive.

brit 1:42

Yeah. And. So we stayed in Burlington and it did feel like a mountain town, a little bit like a bigger mountain town than maybe ones that we've stayed in in the past. It's also a college town, so we were constantly talking about like how different could our lives have been if we went to college in Burlington, right? Because it just seemed like such a fun place to be, and especially at that age, that would've been so wild. Like where would we be?

josh 2:17

It would've been life-changing for sure. Honestly. Yeah. If I would've gone to college there in Burlington, I don't know if it's University of Vermont, Burlington. I think maybe that's the college right there. I think so,

brit 2:30

yeah.

josh 2:31

But you walk out of any of their. Buildings. Mm-hmm. And just look around. And then there's mountains everywhere and there's huge bodies of water. And it's just a lot of downtown, hustle and bustle people going to shops, people going to class, going restaurants, going back to dorms, but all like local.

brit 2:54

Mm-hmm. All small local businesses.

josh 2:56

Yeah. Yeah. I mean, there's some larger businesses, like there's Ben and Jerry's, which we, we drove off a little bit and stopped at their facility and did a tour and a tasting.

brit 3:07

Oh my gosh. That was so fun. That was one of the highlights of this trip for me. I think. I love Ben And Jerry's, I love that they constantly speak out in times of injustice. And I love that they, support small businesses. They support local farms, they're just really great. And we got to tour that whole factory. Well, maybe not the whole thing. The one lady she had said before we had went back that we cannot use phones in the factory location. like when we went inside of the area because. She was afraid of spies. Mm-hmm. Learning all of the recipes and steps and stuff. Yeah. So

josh 3:53

the crabby patty secret recipe.

brit 3:55

Yeah. Uh, we couldn't take pictures in that area, but the rest of it was so stunning too. Like we, we also saw the flavor graveyard. Mm-hmm. Oh my gosh. The entire time she was talking about the flavor graveyard and I was like, oh, it's this make believe little, you know, animated graveyard that they made. That's so cute. No, it's a real fucking graveyard. And it was so cool. It had like all of these stones of, different flavors that no longer exist and just such a cool little added piece of that factory tour. And then we got to taste, what was it? Marshmallow dream?

josh 4:37

Yeah, something like that. Marshmallow something. Yeah. It was blue and marshmallowy and, and

brit 4:43

it had cookie dough chunks in it.

josh 4:44

Yeah, I think so. Yeah.

brit 4:45

It was so good. And we had a thing of cookie dough chunks.

josh 4:49

We did, yes. When we were doing the tour, they gave us,

brit 4:52

we couldn't take a picture of it'cause we were in the room that we can't, that no spies are allowed.

josh 4:57

Yeah. But yeah, it, I completely agree. And it was a really fun tour. It wasn't that long. It was maybe 15, 20 minutes. Yeah, definitely worth it. Like if someone is going through Burlington or around Burlington, I think from where we were staying, it was a 20 minute drive, maybe a 30 minute drive, so

brit 5:17

mm-hmm.

josh 5:17

Just a short little ride there and back. Really again, beautiful drive out there.'cause you're in the mountains again. And then

brit 5:25

Yeah.

josh 5:25

Like you said, the tour was super fun. Mm-hmm.

brit 5:28

No, it was so great. I would do that over and over again. That was so fun. And like a family friendly place. Mm-hmm. Like there were kids everywhere. Yeah. You know, just us as adults when you know, it's really for everyone.

josh 5:41

Yeah, for sure. I loved that. Yeah.

brit 5:43

And that's kind of

josh 5:45

that family friendly atmosphere, even though Burlington itself felt like a college town. It definitely was a college town. Mm-hmm. There were college kids all over the place.

brit 5:55

Yeah.

josh 5:56

But it was so friendly. Nice. Walking around. We got some videos, like you said, it snowed while we were there. They got a like shops walking only streets and we got a video of when it's snowing and the lights are on, it's such a winter kind of hallmarky feely town at that time.

brit 6:19

That is Church Street. And it was gorgeous.

josh 6:22

Yeah.

brit 6:22

I absolutely loved it. Yeah. it was, lit up. At night it was so beautiful. Mm-hmm. Especially during, when it was snowing, you know, it was freezing. So we were all bundled up and we went inside a couple places, got a, warm beverage, or we tried the chocolates on that street, you know, just several different places that we went into to warm up a little bit. And then you go back outside and it's just, I, it's such a cozy vibe. Yeah. Like, I just love it there.

josh 6:54

Yeah. It was amazing. And lake Champlain was right there and walked down along the water, even though it was really cold and windy while we were there. It was beautiful. Gorgeous. similar to where we are in Wisconsin, they have a high concentration of breweries. Yeah. In the Burlington area. And they did. And some really good spots that we went to. So it, it really kind of fit our current town's vibe.'cause Appleton

brit 7:23

kind of, yeah.

josh 7:24

Especially if we're talking about Appleton. We live in Menasha, but Appleton with Lawrence University. Mm-hmm. It's got a very much a college town vibe. Mm-hmm. So minus the mountains.'cause you look around Appleton and it's just flat. There's not a ton going on. You got

brit 7:39

flatland,

josh 7:40

You got the river, but not a whole. Lot going on as far as undulation. So still beautiful in its own right. But this was something else. And I mean, we were saying again, how different Our lives would've been if we went to school there. I feel like I would be so much more into nature.'cause I'd be like, I, I want to go like hiking all the time is how I feel. I think I would've been,

brit 8:03

I don't know that I would've been like that. There's still, you know, bugs are a thing, but

josh 8:12

that's true. Bugs are a thing, but it, yeah.

brit 8:15

But it is curious to, think about how that one decision of where we went to college, like completely transformed our lives. I'm so glad that it went the way that it did though.'cause I probably wouldn't have met you.

josh 8:28

Right. Same. So, yeah.

brit 8:30

Yeah. But we always think about those things. Like we look at, people who are coming in on boats and we're like, what are their lives like? what is that like to be somebody who, fishes all day and, takes the boat out and, you know, makes their money that way? Like how does that even work? Like what, right. I, I love having those conversations when we go on trips like that with you. The breweries though, were incredible. Mm-hmm. I loved what was it, fiddlehead Brewery. That was my favorite because Right. Fiddlehead was amazing. Right next door there was Falinos Pizza, and this pizza was so incredible. I really loved it. It was like a, it was New York style, the sauce was so good. I'm a saucy pizza girl. Mm-hmm. Like, I like a good sauce. I like a lot of sauce. And it was good. It was very good.

josh 9:28

Yeah. That was great. We went to Zero Gravity, which was a good one as well. Foam brewers.

brit 9:38

Foam brewers. Mm-hmm. Was so fun. We met a older couple there and they were on like a holiday or like a short weekend trip And we just hung out with them for a little bit, got to know them And then we actually ran into them a little bit later in the night too, after dinner because we were like crossing the street, going to a speakeasy and then we were just like, oh, come with us. So we went to Devil Takes a holiday. Yes. And that place was really interesting. It had unique cocktails mm-hmm. On their menu.

josh 10:13

Yeah.

brit 10:14

Very strong cocktails.

josh 10:16

I was just gonna say very boozy cocktails. Yeah. Yes. And the four of us were already. A little boozed up. So the four of us were kind from the

brit 10:25

breweries. Yeah. No, but it was so fun. They were great. People really loved getting to know them. So if you're listening, shout out and Devil Takes a holiday. That was really good.

josh 10:36

Yeah. I just wanna say foam brewers is closer to, lake Champlain and

brit 10:43

mm-hmm.

josh 10:43

You can sit outside there. And Burlington seems like a really big dog town. Lots of people with dogs, so,

brit 10:51

oh my gosh. The dogs outside. Mm-hmm. At foam was, so they, there were so many dogs. Yeah. I loved them.

josh 10:59

Mm-hmm. But that's a good brewery where you can sit outside and get a good view of the lake there. And they got some really good beers there. And they were hosting, uh, some live music that we left, uh, before started playing some,

brit 11:11

yeah.

josh 11:12

Uh, bluegrass Band, I believe.

brit 11:14

Bluegrass. so that was a fun day, trying out all of the, all of the different breweries that we could. Mm-hmm. Uh, without, you know, drinking too much. Mm-hmm. But that was fun. I also really loved that we made a reservation for Lu Nigs Le Leig Lu Nigs Bistro. Uh, L-E-U-N-I-G Bistro. And my favorite dish that we got there was the salmon pasta.

josh 11:45

Oh, yes.

brit 11:46

Oh my gosh, that was incredible. Mm-hmm. I'm, I look at this picture and I'm like, Ugh, it is so good. You have to get that. If you like salmon and you like pasta, you're good. You gotta get that. You should probably make reservations because it does book up. Mm-hmm. So that's what we did. Yeah. if you're going to Burlington, you should hit up that spot

josh 12:10

for sure. Yeah. I got a roast there that I also really enjoyed, so they got a couple options on the menu, depending what you like.

brit 12:17

Yeah.

josh 12:17

But yeah, that was a really good place. That pizza, like you said, inside of Fiddleheads, that was really good Pizza. That's a little outside of Burlington, but again, just a really short drive.

brit 12:28

Yeah.

josh 12:29

Uh, really good pizza there.

brit 12:31

Burlington Bagel company. There were so many unique bagel options, like so many different flavors. It was delicious. so I got the O Asiago and Red Pepper Bagel with chive cream cheese. Mm. So good.

josh 12:48

You're just so excited about bagels. I mean, why wouldn't you be?

brit 12:52

I have gotten into sourdough recently and it's, oh, consumed my whole life. So

josh 12:59

Becoming a bread snob,

brit 13:00

not a bread snob. I love all bread. I don't really discriminate against bread. However, some of it is more airy, some of it is more dense, you know? Yeah. Just kind of depends.

josh 13:13

Mm-hmm. Speaking of, uh, bagels though, we went to. A place that we've both seen on social media quite a bit, but the cafe Hot.

brit 13:22

Ooh. Yeah. That was fun.

josh 13:24

That was fun. Really good. Breakfast options is what we had

brit 13:28

so busy.

josh 13:30

Oh yeah.

brit 13:31

It was incredibly busy. And I can imagine that it's that busy every single morning.

josh 13:35

Yeah. Yeah. It was stuffed full of college kids

brit 13:39

It is really cool though because it's decorated in like a horror, scary movie kind of theme. Mm-hmm. So, uh, and we love scary movies, so if you have any scary movie recommendations, maybe shout'em out to us.

josh 13:53

Oh yeah, absolutely. We're always looking for a new scary movie or we are scary movie series that we're looking to watch, so Yeah, yeah.

brit 14:00

We've seen a lot of'em though, so.

josh 14:02

Mm-hmm.

brit 14:02

Yeah. But anyways, so scary movie kind of theme was really fun. Yeah. And there were really unique breakfast options there. Yeah. Like the sandwiches that we got, there was a like black kind of sauce. Mm-hmm. In the wrap.

josh 14:20

Yeah.

brit 14:20

And it was really interesting. It was just an interesting flavor that I don't think I've had before.

josh 14:26

No, I don't think so either. I forget what it was, but it was still really good.

brit 14:31

Yeah, it was delicious.

josh 14:32

Yeah. we had the nine mile coffee on the way back, but that was in New York. We stopped off, we got the bagel sandwiches.

brit 14:39

Oh. I didn't like those bagel sandwiches, but I really did like the coffee. The

josh 14:42

coffee was really good. Yeah. Yeah. And that was a really cute town. Schroon Lake, New York. Mm-hmm. Super cute town. We talked about like, oh, we could definitely come back here.

brit 14:51

Yeah.

josh 14:52

Not Burlington, but a side note.

brit 14:54

No, that was really fun.

josh 14:56

Yeah.

brit 14:56

Yeah. I, I think we should go back there.

josh 14:59

Oh, I think so. New York looks so cool.

brit 15:02

It really does. Yeah. I didn't realize that New York had so many mountains or like mountainous regions.

josh 15:08

Oh, right. Yeah. Yeah. It's

brit 15:11

so interesting.

josh 15:12

Mm-hmm. And we got to spend quite a bit of time, uh, dipping our way through it on our way back on the trip because there was a big snowstorm.

brit 15:22

Yeah.

josh 15:23

And they, the

brit 15:23

interstate was closed.

josh 15:25

Yeah. The main highway was closed. So. It was either we take back roads or we have to wait a day for them to clear and everything to get settled down. And we were like, well, we're going. So Google took us this whole back way, which was a little kinda sketchy at times because it was real slick roads and kind of slushy.

brit 15:49

No, it was terrifying. I was holding my breath. I had to play a game on my phone so I didn't backseat drive too much and I had to distract myself. But it worked and we survived. Yeah. And Josh is a great driver, so,

josh 16:04

oh, I, thanks. I have all

brit 16:04

my faith in him.

josh 16:05

But we got to see quite a bit of New York and kind of the far western part of Vermont.

brit 16:13

Yeah.

josh 16:13

During that drive. So that was fun. Yeah. Because Vermont. Vermont is so gorgeous.

brit 16:19

It really is.

josh 16:20

Yeah.

brit 16:21

But speaking of outside of Burlington, about an hour away from Burlington on our way in Mm. We stopped at the meltdown. Oh yeah. Which had all of these different options for grilled cheeses. Mm-hmm. And we also got a soup of the day there. And then we got a pumpkin cheesecake there, all of which were incredible. The grilled cheeses though. Oh my God. So good. Yeah. So good.

josh 16:47

Delicious. And some really friendly staff there. We'd gotten there just after lunch, so I'm pretty sure we were the only ones Yeah. In there. And they were super friendly. Talked to the waitress who was helping us out about audio books that we were listening to. Yeah. And swapped some recommendations. So that was really fun. It's just such a friendly, cozy, beautiful area. Everyone that we ran into and talked to was nice.

brit 17:17

Mm-hmm.

josh 17:18

It just was a place that you wanted to be outside, walking around, see nature, bundled up inside. And one of the days where we were kind of walking around seeing what's in the town, and we're like, oh, what should we do? And we went and we found this, this game room called the Boardroom.

brit 17:37

Oh. That was a great place. It was a great place. It had like thousands mm-hmm. Of board games. Yeah. Just on the walls. It was alpha alphabetically organized.

josh 17:48

Mm-hmm. Did you forget Alphabet? Is that I

brit 17:51

was gonna say alphabetized, but then I was like.

josh 17:54

Alphabetized is a word. I

brit 17:55

know,

josh 17:56

but I, it scared it doesn't sound right.

brit 17:59

Scared me. Yeah. So we had some fun at, uh, the boardroom. Mm-hmm. And just played some, what did we play?

josh 18:11

We played, uh, exploiting kittens.

brit 18:13

Exploding kittens. Yeah.

josh 18:15

Yeah.

brit 18:15

We didn't have enough time to start a whole board game because we got there a little bit later. So

josh 18:21

yeah, we got there with only like an hour and a half until it close, but super nice place. You pay six bucks a person. Then you have access to any of the games that you want while you're there. And the$6, I pretty sure is an unlimited amount of time. Yeah. So you could get there right when they open, pay the six bucks and then you can be there the whole day.

brit 18:41

Which honestly sounds like a great day to me. I love a good board game day. Mm-hmm. So that sounds like so much fun.

josh 18:47

Yeah. And they have a little snack bar, so they got some like small bites or drinks and stuff that you can have. So Yeah. Yeah, a super cute place, but it just added to the overall kind of theme of Burlington. Just friendly, cozy, just a little bit like youthfulness, you know, playfulness. Yeah. And We also went and did a couple of escape rooms in Burlington as well, which I'm not exactly sure why we got back into'em cause we love escape rooms. But on this trip we did one in Portland, Maine, and then we did two here in Burlington, Vermont.

brit 19:27

Yes. We did one at Escape Room 60. Mm-hmm. Which was a wizard kind of theme one. Yes. We did escape with like 20 seconds to spare. Mm-hmm. It was so fun. The other one is the Great Escape mm-hmm. In Burlington. Mm-hmm. And that one was like downtown. Yeah. Burlington. So it was close to all of the like downtown places. Mm-hmm. Very walkable, kind of area of the city. this one is the seance with Houdini and communicating with him from the dead. Yeah. So that one was really fun. It was so intricately set up. It was amazing.

josh 20:11

Yeah. Yeah. Really enjoyed that one. All the different kind of locks and everything that they put into it weren't your just standard like key or directional locks. There were putting like puzzle pieces onto a table or on the wall using a phone to call a number. So a lot of interesting aspects to that one.

brit 20:33

Yeah, agreed.

josh 20:35

And I really enjoyed the Wizard one at Escape Room 60 as well.

brit 20:40

Me too. Mm-hmm. That one kind of brought out my inner child a little bit with the shoots and ladders. Mm-hmm. Or if it was a, oh, what was it? It was snakes and, uh, snakes and ladders. Something like that.

josh 20:55

Yeah. I'm pretty sure that's what it was. Yeah.

brit 20:57

So, yeah. That was fun.

josh 20:59

But yeah, just a great time. Throw that, uh, little extra communication piece into our trips to keep us on our toes, you know? Those were both really fun. Enjoyed those, and I think the whole Burlington part of the trip just really made me think about Appleton and appreciate it.'cause again I pretty much grew up in Appleton. Yeah. And it very similar kind of area, minus all the outdoorsy aspects that Burlington has to offer. Yeah. And I think Burlington is a little smaller too, and makes it more of just a college town.

brit 21:41

I can see the similarities between Appleton and Burlington that you're making For sure. I think that there's, when you're downtown Appleton and it's all lit up and it's nighttime and it's snowing, it is beautiful. Mm-hmm. Do I think it's as beautiful as Burlington? No. I mean, there's no mountains around or anything like that, but there's a lot of local shops and there's, there's a lot that Appleton has to offer for sure. I am curious with you making those comparisons. I'm curious to know if you could see yourself in Burlington.

josh 22:20

Oh, I definitely could. I think the fact that it's so similar to Appleton Yeah. Makes it easier to imagine. Again, the biggest difference is the scenery also. Downtown Burlington in that area is a lot of undulation walking like steep hills. So when we were walking along, it was, uh, a bit different than walking downtown Appleton, I can definitely see it. we talk about with all the places we visit and the only thing minus the scenery that Burlington is different than Appleton is like our friends and family.

brit 22:59

Yeah.

josh 22:59

So if I could transport everyone from here to there, I'd be like, well, we're just gonna move there. So

brit 23:07

you got the feeling there?

josh 23:08

I think so, yeah. Yeah. I think it's just, I. Part of me would've liked to have had that kind of college experience.

brit 23:18

Me too.

josh 23:19

So maybe I'm just holding onto that. You know, I went to college a couple different places, but the one furthest away from home was UW Stout, and that had some definite scenery and it was kind of out in the middle of nowhere, not anything around for a little bit. So a little bit similar that way. But to be out close to the east coast like Burlington is, and as beautiful as it is out there, I could have seen a totally different life for myself if I had gone to school out there.

brit 23:51

Yeah. Yeah, I think about that too. And how. Again, like how different life would be. Mm-hmm. But I'm also so grateful for being able to experience it now, with you. Mm-hmm. Yeah. You know,

josh 24:05

for sure. I wouldn't change any of it. I just, you know, the envy of those kids that walk out and then see the mountains right there. I'm like, oh

brit 24:13

yeah. I

josh 24:14

hope you guys appreciate it because not everywhere is as beautiful as it is here.

brit 24:20

I know sometimes I watch like TV shows and I'm like, there's people that. Are surrounded by mountains and they don't even look up. And I'm like, are you kidding me?

josh 24:31

Yeah.

brit 24:32

What are you doing? Look at the beauty that surrounds you. Mm-hmm.

josh 24:37

I feel like that happened in, uh, Seattle and Bremerton as well, when we were there this past year, we were walking around Bremerton and Seattle and just constantly kind of looking up through the clouds and kind of the fogginess and looking for a peak of the mountains when it was there. But it's all, it's such a busy town then. A lot of people are looking out at their phones. They're focused on driving.

brit 25:05

Yeah. And if you're surrounded by mountains your whole life, you're probably going to get to a point where you're like, yeah, it's cool, but whatever. Mm-hmm. It's what I know. Mm-hmm. And we're just surrounded by, nothing. So, so mountains to us are like, wow, that's so cool. Right,

josh 25:24

exactly. So maybe everyone else is just saying you should have grown up with mountains. And then,

brit 25:31

We were born and raised in Wisconsin, so we didn't have that choice.

josh 25:36

So you didn't get, uh, really the feeling at all in Burlington?

brit 25:40

No, I did. Yeah, I did. I, and especially looking back at it now, I really appreciated the, local businesses. Mm-hmm. And the small kind of small business atmosphere. I loved that. It seemed very welcoming for people to come and visit. It had really great food. I really loved, the people that we met there the breweries, all of the fun things that we did, like the escape rooms and the board boardroom, all of that. I absolutely loved that. And being so close to Ben and Jerry's, the factory, I feel like, I feel like if we lived over there, I would be there far too often. Um. So, yeah, I, I did get the feeling there. I loved it. I did, I don't know that it's gonna crack the top three. Ipswich, Massachusetts is still higher on my list than Burlington. But Burlington still has so much to offer and I really appreciated it.

josh 26:45

Yeah. It's, it was difficult to really have one place for me out over another on this trip because Ipswich, Portland, and Burlington, each state. Massachusetts, Maine, and Vermont ranked high in quality of life. Vermont is ranked number one in the United States for quality of life. One of the lowest crime states, some of the cleanest rated air in the United States. a lot of, like we've said, multiple times, friendly people. Um, they're extremely environmentally friendly. They have a lot of climate change initiatives, so they care about the environment, they care about people. Yeah. You know, I, I pulled this up and found that it is one of the states where it's considered the easiest to vote in.'cause they provide the most early voting opportunities. The most mail-in ballot opportunities, they have the most voting stations. So it's one of those places where. It feels like it's made to benefit the people, and then also protect the environment around it. Yeah. Which I really love and appreciate about a place, so,

brit 28:01

yeah. No, me too. Mm-hmm. That sounds, I mean, everything that you just said sounds exactly like something that would fit into our values mm-hmm. And where we could align. Yeah. I mean, who knows, maybe, maybe Vermont has more to offer than we think. Mm-hmm. You know, maybe we need to do a whole two weeks just in Vermont. We're on there.

josh 28:25

Yeah.

brit 28:25

Oh my God. Could you imagine two weeks just in Vermont, we would see so much and we've already done Burlington. Mm-hmm. We would, see so much.

josh 28:36

We would, and then Canada's right there Borders Canada, so Montreal. Mm-hmm.

brit 28:41

Toronto.

josh 28:42

Yeah. Just thinking about that. So if you're on, if you're in Vermont or New Hampshire or Maine, you are a couple hours to major cities in Canada. I mean, we are only a, here in Wisconsin, we're only a couple hours to Canada, but then we are another 12 hours to

brit 29:02

Toronto would be the closest big city. I,

josh 29:05

I guess it's not if it's in the spring, summer, fall where you can use the ferry. Yeah, we can probably get to Toronto in 12 hours.

brit 29:13

Yeah. Because we have Lake Michigan. Mm-hmm. That cuts us off, but mm-hmm. Still a couple hours until you're in Montreal. That's, that's insane.

josh 29:23

That's fantastic. Like, oh, I'm just gonna go visit this major Canadian city for the weekend. Like I feel like that's how European. Families or European people feel like, oh, I'm just going to like, I live in Germany, but I'm just gonna take the train

brit 29:41

to another country.

josh 29:42

Hop over to France for the weekend. Just for the

brit 29:45

weekend. Okay. Yeah. that sounds amazing. I would be so blessed to have that if that was in my life,

josh 29:53

insufferable, because I would do that every weekend. I would do one day weekends, like, oh, I'm leaving Friday afternoon. I'm gonna stay in, stay in Belgium for Saturday and then come back on Sunday. I would do that all the time.

brit 30:08

Yeah, me too. But yeah, Being so close to Canada. Mm-hmm. And major cities in Canada. That's definitely a plus. Yeah. That they have going on over there.

josh 30:18

It makes me feel like we should maybe do a short trip

brit 30:22

to Canada.

josh 30:23

To Canada, but go to a small city

brit 30:26

just for the weekend,

josh 30:26

just straight of us.

brit 30:28

That sounds amazing. We should,

josh 30:30

yeah,

brit 30:31

we should do that.

josh 30:32

Because there are,'cause when we did our trip for Toronto and Quebec City, initially we had planned on driving. It was a very short, initially it was two days. We were like, oh yeah, we'll drive. And then we thought. We will fly.

brit 30:49

No, it's the dead of winter. I'd rather fly. Let's

josh 30:52

just fly. Which was the smart option,

brit 30:55

Yeah, we're approaching the winter now and we're talking about going to Canada. But I mean, we would just travel up to like a small city. Yeah. And we would see if it's gonna snow or not for the weekend. Right. That would be so fun. We should do that.

josh 31:12

I feel like we should, We got, salt St. Marie that's kind of split between Canada and the Up Sudbury. There's a small town. Kabrina Heights. Just a. Short while in, no big deal up in Ontario.

brit 31:28

Well maybe we will have a random episode where we go up to Canada for the weekend.

josh 31:34

Canada is so massive.

brit 31:36

It is. It's huge.

josh 31:38

Every time I pull up a map and I'm like Canada and I just think of Ontario and Quebec and then I zoom out and No, it's huge. Yeah, you got the Northwest Territories mostly unpopulated, like a lot of, major countries like that and Russia and the northern parts of Greenland, Largely unpopulated. But that would be so exciting to do that for a weekend is just go up there and pick a small town.

brit 32:03

It would, mm-hmm. It would be really fun. So who knows? We'll see. Maybe we'll have a random episode just pop up about. Our weekend in Canada. I don't think we will have time before our New Zealand trip, but maybe after our New Zealand trip and before our February trip, we could maybe,

josh 32:20

yeah, maybe do that. Yeah.

brit 32:22

Or after the February trip. Mm-hmm. We'll see

josh 32:25

we got time. We got the rest of our lives. The rest of

brit 32:28

our lives, and we're saying the February trip, because we are recording this before December 10th, so we have no idea which one it's gonna be, but I do think that Finland is in the lead seven to three. So

josh 32:41

you think? I think it is.

brit 32:43

So, seems like we're going to Finland, but I don't know. We're not positive yet.

josh 32:49

No. Anyway, back to Vermont. The ability to immediately get to Montreal, Ottawa, Quebec City, even take a longer trip and get out to Nova Scotia. Yeah, no problem. Would be amazing.

brit 33:07

That would be so fun. Yeah. I really appreciate being in a different country and having the option to be in a different country in just a couple hours. I don't think we take advantage of that as much as we should. Yeah. But anyways, back to Burlington. Mm-hmm. we both got the feeling here. Are there things that you didn't like about Burlington or that you couldn't see yourself living with in Burlington?

josh 33:36

It's not just Burlington. It is a issue with every developed nation in the world. I'm pretty sure. I'm not positive on that. Maybe there are places that have zero unhoused populations, but Burlington definitely has a unhoused population.

brit 33:59

Yeah. I think when we do these trips, we gotta bring like extra backpacks and fill'em full of like warm clothes and sandwiches and snacks and stuff. Yeah. Just to like give them out. But we saw that there were people handing out food. Mm-hmm. And like warm beverages and stuff, so.

josh 34:17

Yep. Seems like, and jackets, there was like a cold weather clothing cart that was going around.

brit 34:22

Yeah. Mm-hmm. Seems like people really tried to take care of each other, um, in Burlington, I agree though. I think that it's a problem everywhere. And, we talked about it a little bit in I think the previous episode, but we want to be more mindful of how we contribute. To this, epidemic and we are gonna be more thoughtful of where we stay.

josh 34:51

Yeah. It's something that we're definitely trying to do more ourselves to. Help people in these situations. And there are definitely states and cities, countries that are doing more and less to help the unhoused population.

brit 35:12

Yeah,

josh 35:13

just while quickly researching Vermont, there are some policies that try to help then house, but not a ton really. They have some basic sanitation, stations that people who are unhoused can go and use and I think they are able to use the bathroom, maybe take a shower if they need to there. But as far as. A place for them to stay. I don't believe there is a ton of funding to help them out, which being in a part of the country that they are in, in the kind of climate that they experience is something that I think should be looked into more. according to studies people who have like interviewed unhoused. There, there are unhoused people who have chosen to be in that lifestyle. However, I think. It's pretty clear, as far as if policies are implemented to help them out, there is a drastic reduction in that number. And many choose to go into a place that has a bed, has heating.

brit 36:33

Yes.

josh 36:34

And I, I think that'd be no different in Burlington.'cause like when we were there it was cold and there were encampments groups of people getting together under a tarp when it was hailing and snowing and it was hard to see.

brit 36:52

It was. Yeah. And just a little bit of, education around this. 40 to 60% of. Unhoused people have a job. Mm-hmm. Which is, uh, something that I think a lot of people don't hear and it's not talked about enough. And I think that this is a conversation that needs to be had more and we need to learn more about, you know, this rising epidemic mm-hmm. Of what's happening all around the world. Like how there, there has to be policies that can impact and influence change.

josh 37:35

Mm-hmm. Yeah. Absolutely. There have been successful policies implemented in plenty of places, like we talked about Finland, which when we're recording this, who knows if that's where we're going, but they, I hope so. They have. Introduced, I think several years ago now, over a dozen years ago now, government funded housing for unhoused people and there's no requirements for any sort of rehab or drug policies or work policies. There's none of that. But it, according to what I read online, it reduced from, tens of thousands of unhoused population down to three or 4,000 Yeah. Which is still a large number. However, to reduce that with, government housing without any restrictions on if you're allowed in or not, is huge.

brit 38:32

Yeah. Mm-hmm. That's incredible.

josh 38:34

Yeah.

brit 38:35

I love that for them. I wish that we could do more, and we've had a lot of conversation over the past couple weeks about how we can do more. Mm-hmm. And I think, we're gonna continue with this pod. Yes, we are very privileged to be doing this pod and we certainly recognize that, but we're no longer going to be staying at places that directly impact the unhoused community. Like I would not feel comfortable staying at an Airbnb in a town that has a large, or a state that has a very large unhoused population. Doesn't make sense. We shouldn't be doing that. We shouldn't contribute to that. So we're not going to,

josh 39:20

no. Yeah. And it's a very. Tricky situation, you know, because there are people who are small business owners that buy multi-family homes, you know, duplexes, quadplexes, stuff like that where you buy that and it's intentional. It's for business, you buy it so you can rent it out. And then we talk about people who buy multiple family homes, but then you have the idea of just renting it out or using it as a short-term rental and that doesn't feel as Right. You know? Yeah. Uh, a single family home feels like it should be for a single family. So, you know, we are not experts in this field. We are. Just doing our own research in this and,

brit 40:10

and we travel a lot mm-hmm. And we see, we see it mm-hmm. When we travel. Yeah. And so it makes sense to talk about it on this pod because it's a part of the experience that we're doing, and I think people need to know. It's all over the world, you know, there's, this is happening everywhere.

josh 40:28

Yeah.

brit 40:29

And it's really sad.

josh 40:31

Yeah.

brit 40:31

So I, I think we can only do so much. Mm-hmm. But if we can talk about it, we should.

josh 40:37

Yeah, for sure. I completely agree. And, the major companies or major financial groups that purchase up large amounts of family homes to, you know, just sell'em back at, at higher prices or to use them for their own, you know, short term rentals or what have you. Like I'm. Sure plenty of people have heard of, I'm pretty sure it's BlackRock who buys up a ton of single family homes. And I'm pretty sure Zillow has done that as well. And those that just drive up the cost of housing all around. You know, when you do that, when you take away housing for a single family, it doesn't only affect single family homes, it affects rent. And Burlington is expensive. I looked it up. A typical apartment rental is$2,200 a month. Wow. Which is expensive for us to here, you know, here in Wisconsin. Ours I'm sure is much cheaper than that, depending what area you live in. And I'm sure it's much cheaper around Vermont, but.

brit 41:53

Yeah, it directly influences, rent, it influences the unhoused population. Mm-hmm. It influences our entire economy. Yeah. And so let's do something about it.

josh 42:07

Yeah. I mean, it's, but it's, it's a unique thing though.'cause Airbnb can be a good thing for people, you know, if you're going on vacation and you're just renting it out while you're on vacation, is that a bad thing? I don't think that's a bad thing.

brit 42:20

No.

josh 42:21

If you're renting out a room, just a room in your house. Yeah,

brit 42:24

no. How,

josh 42:26

I think it's very situational.

brit 42:27

It's, yes. Yes. Anyways, so back to Burlington. I do see that there are tons of things that we love to do. There are tons of things that fit within our criteria. And I really loved it there. However, like I said, I really loved Ipswich more.

josh 42:49

Yeah. Was there anything, like, you had asked if there was anything I didn't like about Burlington and I brought up unhoused and, you know, I feel like they should do more for the unhoused population. Mm-hmm. There, is there anything about Burlington that you were just like, that's really not something I like or I agree with or anything like that.

brit 43:11

I'll echo yours. Mm-hmm. You know, the conversation we just had. Sure. It is really spread out. I think the downtown area was very walkable. Mm-hmm. And I loved that. But it is really spread out. If you wanna go further than the downtown area, you gotta, you know, take your car, you gotta make sure you plan for traffic because it gets busy. Yeah. And hopefully it's not like icy and snowy and there's, you're on mountainous roads and, I think that's a part that was a little uneasy for me. But I wouldn't say that I, I didn't like it. I just think that if we lived there, we would need a car. But we've talked about before that if it's worth it, that's okay.

josh 43:55

Yeah. Yeah. And you're right, it is spread out. I mean, from the north end of Burlington to South Burlington, that whole kinda large circle is a really far stretch for how many people are there. Just looking at the map of this and just recalling our driving.

brit 44:17

Yeah.

josh 44:18

Every morning we were in a traffic jam.

brit 44:21

Yeah, it was so busy. Mm-hmm. I mean, we stayed on a road where there was an intersection that was just crazy every single morning. Yeah. And I was like, this is so anxiety provoking. How do people do this? Right. Like, it felt like we were in the middle of New York. I,

josh 44:39

I don't know about that. I've never driven through New York, so I don't know about that. As far as middle of Chicago. I, I guess it was close. The street wasn't as crazy as Chicago, but it was close some of

brit 44:51

the streets in Chicago or just like that.

josh 44:54

Yeah, for sure. Yep.

brit 44:55

I think that was a piece that I was uneasy with. But the rest of it I just really loved. I really loved Burlington.

josh 45:01

Yeah.

brit 45:01

Mm-hmm. I would go back there. Oh, I wanna go back to Ben and Jerry's. I wanna take my mom to Ben and Jerry's. That would be so fun

josh 45:12

there. There is a Burlington International airport, so they do have the ability to fly in. I doubt that Appleton flies direct. That doesn't seem like it. It seems like a very small airport, so

brit 45:24

come on.

josh 45:26

But I bet you can get to it through like Chicago, so I bet you could go Appleton, Chicago. Chicago to Burlington, so

brit 45:32

that would be so fun.

josh 45:34

Yeah.

brit 45:35

But then we would need to rent a car to take it to Ben and Jerry's.

josh 45:38

It's either that or you deal with a 18 to 20 hour drive.

brit 45:42

Yeah. I don't know, but it was really fun. Yeah, and that was probably my biggest highlight of this trip. So, well maybe not the biggest, but.

josh 45:54

Not the swimming pool.

brit 45:55

Oh my God. We didn't even talk about it. We got to play mermaids. That was amazing. Mm-hmm. Yeah. I loved the pool area. I loved the hot tub. It was really great. It was very relaxing. And we got to like wrestle in the pool, which we do, and then people judge us and we're like, yeah, whatever. We're in a pool. We're invisible.

josh 46:19

So we, we are such children in pools.

brit 46:22

We really are. It's the best thing ever. If you cannot bring out your inner child in a pool, what are you doing?

josh 46:29

It was a nice, in-between location that we stayed in the Green Mountain Hotel. Mm-hmm. We were kind of right by the main shopping centers like Target and Walmart and stuff out there, a little away from downtown Burlington. But yeah, it was a nice hotel. We changed up from, I think, a Airbnb that was in Old Northland and decided to go to this hotel It was really worth it. We had talked, about needing a break day during your vacation, and even though this was at the end. It was really nice to have before driving all the way back to Wisconsin, was to have these three days, four nights at this hotel and be able to have a pool and a hot tub.

brit 47:19

Yeah, I agree.

josh 47:21

And it still felt like a good trip. Stop being able to go into Burlington.'cause it was a place we picked. We just switched from, a apartment,

brit 47:32

Airbnb to a hotel.

josh 47:34

Yeah.

brit 47:34

Yeah.

josh 47:35

So there you got your pool. Mm-hmm.

brit 47:37

And it was amazing. Mm-hmm. We love a good pool. Anyways, any final thoughts about Burlington, about our conversation today? I.

josh 47:51

Yeah, I just really liked Burlington. I think it'd be really fun to go back, explore more of Vermont in general. I could see us doing another Northeast coast trip, we didn't get to stop in New Hampshire. That wasn't in our ary. Yeah. Itinerary wasn't a place that we picked as far as our research, but it's right there. We pass through it and maybe we gotta find a spot in there, fit aligns with us. Otherwise maybe we do a trip where it's Canada and the Northeast of the United States.

brit 48:30

Yeah.

josh 48:31

So I think there's a lot to lot to offer there, and I think so much of it aligned with What we look for in a potential place in the future.

brit 48:41

It did. It did. Yeah. I really appreciated it. And I would definitely go back. Mm-hmm. I think adding New Hampshire, maybe Rhode Island, maybe Connecticut. Or doing, maybe like a small city on our way to Canada. In Canada on like the border. Mm-hmm. Of Wisconsin and Canada. And then, Toronto, Montreal, Vermont. That would be fun. So our next episode is going to be reviewing this East Coast trip, the entire trip, what we learned, what we liked about the structure of it, and what we might wanna change about future trips based on this trip as well. We also might do a brief check-in as well during that episode and just see how the pod is going for each of us. Don't forget to like and subscribe to our YouTube channel, our Instagram and our TikTok, as well as checking out some of the pictures that we have on our website from all of these trips.

josh 49:45

Yes, and we appreciate everyone that likes and comments. All of our YouTube videos and our tiktoks continue to leave us messages, send us messages if you like a place we went, or if you have any suggestions on where we might like to go in the future. Leave us a comment and send us a message.

brit 50:07

Thank you so much for listening. Until next time.