Solving the Spurs & The Art of Shooting w/ Kevin McKenzie

It was a "back to the drawing board" night in San Antonio as the Timberwolves were blitzed 133-95 in a Game 2 to forget. Host Steve Hartman is joined by former Eagan head coach and founder of the McKenzie Shooting Academy, Kevin McKenzie, to break down the wreckage. 

We dive into the (1:21) Spurs' swarming defensive traps that forced 22 turnovers, the impact of Jaden McDaniels' recurring foul trouble, and the lingering concerns over Ayo Dosunmu’s health. 

Then, we shift gears into a masterclass on the art of shooting (35:00). McKenzie shares his expertise on building a jumper from the ground up, the footwork non-negotiables, and what separates the good from the elite in today's game.

Listen on Spotify, Apple Podcasts or YouTube. 

Follow Splash City Basketball Podcast on Instagram, Facebook and Bluesky. 

Transcript

SPEAKER_01 0:04

Bag in that bag in that bag again. Whoa, whoa, bag.

SPEAKER_02 0:08

Welcome to the Splash City Basketball Podcast. I'm your host, Steve Hartman. This is your go-to resource for everything hoops from the high school hardwood to the target center. We've got a massive show today. We're performing an autopsy on the disaster that was game two in San Antonio. The Wolves get blitzed 133.95. Looked completely out of sorts offensively against the Spurs defense. We'll talk about the adjustments needed as the series shifts back to Minnesota. Specifically, how to keep the ball in the center third of the floor, what kind of matchups the Wolves can do, what lineups can they go to to uh get back on the winning track here in game three. Plus, we're going to go into a shooting lesson from former Egan head coach, owner of McKenzie Shooting Academy, Kevin McKenzie's joining the program. We'll break down mechanics, footwork, and what separates good shooters from the elite ones. Before we tip off, though, today, do me a quick favor, hit the follow button on Instagram, Facebook, Blue Sky, follow the Splash City podcast. Make sure you subscribe on Apple, Spotify, Amazon, wherever you listen, so you never miss an episode in the future. But with that, let's get into it. Timberwolves ran into a buzzsaw in San Antonio last night, game two, getting blitzed 133.95. The Spurs forced 22 turnovers and used a lot of swarming, trapping, defense. DeNerd Fox rebounded nicely. Jaden McDaniels battled foul trouble again. And sadly, I ought to sumu was out as quickly as he returned again with a heel injury. To help me break it down, we'll talk about game two, maybe look ahead of game three. I'm thrilled to welcome back to the podcast. Longtime high school coach and now operator McKenzie Shooting Academy, Kevin McKenzie. Kevin, how are you doing, man? Great. Thanks for having me back. Appreciate it. Yeah, yeah. Uh let's let's start. Uh I'm excited to talk about shooting. It's one thing we haven't really talked specifically about on my podcast here since uh since we started, but um, I want to first talk about the wolves because it's fresh in our minds. And I don't know if you did you make it through the whole game or were you one of those that turned it off in the third.

SPEAKER_01 2:17

I'm a junkie, man. Like I I watched I watched uh the whole thing, watch uh Ingalls trying to throw lobs up and all the stuff. Like for you know, that's I'm a I'm a I'm a diehard. So yeah, watch the whole thing.

SPEAKER_02 2:31

Yeah, me too, sadly. I saw the Joe Angles three ball too, and I was like, all right, we need more maybe we need more Joe Angles to make some shots here for us. Um obviously the the Spurs defense ratcheted it up. I I likened it to like game five in Denver, where you could tell they were more focused on the drives, they were more ready for it, wolves couldn't make a shot and it just spiraled. Um you know, what did you I was watching the trapping and I think that like looked to me like the wolves did not prepare for that. Um what what did you see like in that first half before things got really out of hand? Like what was kind of the biggest issues the wolves were having?

SPEAKER_01 3:09

Well, I I think the thing that jumps out to me, and I saw this on game one too, is that the uh the Spurs are only gonna help on a certain number of guys, basically on Ant and Randall. And then when other guys are driving, there's they're staying connected and don't want to give up any inside out threes. So early, I I saw Jaden being effective. He was able to get in there and get to his mid-range and and finish in the lane. Unfortunately, he got into the foul trouble that he tends to get into from time to time. Um, and then when Ant came in, he just he had that look that he was, you know, looking to make something happen and came out and uh shot some quick threes that didn't go in. Um and then it just kind of spiraled. Um I thought, you know, once they started trapping, ant was finding the other guys pretty quick. Uh and but we just didn't have much movement after the initial pass. And we seemed, if I'm being honest, I think the Spurs played hard and were effective, but we were pretty easy to guard. Um I didn't there wasn't tons of movement, um, you know, wasn't tons of uh off-the-ball stuff. And uh when we did have um some pick and roll opportunities and get to that kind of mid-range where they're playing they're in their drop coverage, we weren't able to finish. Uh you know, Shannon missed some layups, got blocked a couple times that uh he was making those in the first game. So and then it just kind of spiraled after that. So, but yeah, I mean, I I'm not I I think the Spurs ratcheted up their defense, but um, I think we were our own worst enemy, to be honest with you, with the with the uh ISO stuff and the poor ball movement and maybe some bad shot decisions.

SPEAKER_02 4:59

Um so yeah, I think I think this is one of those games where to me I I really noticed the lack of true point guard. And I know there's not a lot of true point guards in the NBA anymore, but um to me, like Ant off the ball, they they don't they're not gonna trap, you know, Io bringing it across, or uh, you know, even if Jaden were to bring the ball out, they're not gonna probably trap that. Um, and so I was kind of waiting for the Wolves to just, you know, get the ball in the middle third and with somebody else and get Ant coming off like the first screen or first action, you get him away from the ball. But dribbling it across the timeline slowly on the corner on the side, just to me is like that's just bad offense to start with. Like I didn't and I don't know if that was just uh if that's something they normally do. I don't dive into all the film as much, but like against the Spurs, who are scrappy and super quick and were pressuring, just felt to me that uh an adjustment they could have made was just get it across in the middle of the court um versus you know bringing it up the corner and stopping like Ant Ant did a couple times. I think Bones got trapped up there a couple times as well. So it's just um Yeah, Bones struggling with the ball handy.

SPEAKER_01 6:13

You know, it's yeah, he's he's not uh he's not able to operate like he does in the regular season because things are a little more intense, a little more physical. I think the offense actually moves uh better when Conley's in there. But you know, with Ant coming off the bench, by the time Ant's ready to come in, Conley's kind of you you're not gonna play him more than six minute stints. So, you know, then with AO uh, you know, kind of banged up, you know, that's our those are our three main ball handlers, you know. And Conley missed some shots that he made in the first game. Uh he came off a ball screen, was wide open for a three and airballed, missed a good corner three look. You know, and they're gonna that's a guy that they're gonna let operate if he can if he can get it done. So, you know, the they're just gonna have to make those adjustments. Randall is so much better when he's making quick decisions, and I hear Finch say that all the time. You know, when he grabs the ball at the high post or or in the off the block a little bit and he holds it, they just load up on him or they hard double, and it's it's just almost a turnover every time. But when he grabs and rips and attacks, there's not much they can do about it, and that's when he has a success. And it's surprising that he kind of goes back to that holding the ball and and letting them kind of overload and and get uh in their in their spots. Um I you gotta think as a as a seasoned vet that he is that he understands that making those quick decisions is his best you know, best route for being effective.

SPEAKER_02 7:52

Yeah, yeah. Um I I you know through the game last night, and obvious, it's an obvious thing that a lot of people talked about, but uh what do you do with Rudy on offense right now? Because, you know, when he's in the game, Wemby is not doesn't have to guard him, basically. Um even last night, you know, Rudy misses some around the rim, and he's just he's this is a series that feels like he's gonna struggle. Um I know you you gotta play him, um, and you he's gonna start, but um I I I thought one thing they could do maybe is again ant off the ball and use Rudy that way um to go screen for ant away from the ball. That that pulled because Wemby's gonna have to stay somewhat attached there, right? Because Ant is gonna be in space there, and then maybe that frees up Shannon more um to to get downhill and get some space to get to the basket. But uh, you know, this is another game where I think Dante, when they lose, it's the Dante being out, I think, is very glaring to me. Because if he's in the corner ready to shoot, versus some of the other guys, like you said, Mike Connect.

SPEAKER_01 9:00

He doesn't help with the turnover problem though.

SPEAKER_02 9:03

Maybe not.

SPEAKER_01 9:04

But uh no, yeah, he definitely helps space the court and his effort plays, and you know, it's uh it's added. Uh but yeah, you're right about Gobert. And and look, this is why Utah kind of blew things up because they would get to second round, maybe even the conference finals. I don't remember. I think one year maybe. Um year, I think. And uh they just they got in a situation where other teams are just not uh even guard guarding Gobert anymore. And you know, we had some opportunities for some lobs, but you know, Shannon's not much of a lob thrower, and you know, he missed one and a couple of them were too high for him. And then when he did get opportunities, he got fouled and went what, three of eight or something from the free throw line. Um so yeah, he's he's uh he's a liability at times. Um, you know, when he's offensive rebounding, and that's where I think he could really make an impact, is he's so much stronger than Wemby and anybody else they can throw there. If he can get some offensive rebounds, that would be very beneficial to us. But yeah, right now, I think you're right, you know, because if he's setting good off-the-ball screens and they don't switch, then someone's gonna be open. And if they do switch, then you got Wemby or Cornette on you know Shannon or or uh Ant. And we saw what Shannon did when uh Wemby switched onto him that one time, just blew right by him for an easy layup, and then there's no protection at the rim. So I think that's that's important. I think the only two guys that can really make that happen are uh are Conley and DeSumo, but you know, Conley is has limitations on the defensive end, and the other guy's injured. So it's right, it's it's a tough, it's a tough deal. You know, I d I don't know what the game plan was last night because I don't think it was executed. So it's hard to tell if it would have worked, but you know, that's the most frustrating thing. And you know, we talked about this before we started recording a little bit, but you know, they show us that they can execute the game plan, have discipline within the game plan, do the things that you need to do to win, and they show us when they do that they're one of the best teams, you know, a championship contender, and then the next game, the next night, and it's very predictable, they're just the absolute opposite, and they just break our heart all the time.

SPEAKER_02 11:34

Yeah. The good news is this is just a loss, like if they lost by two, right? In a seven-game series. So they go home one-one. Um, you mentioned Jaden. Man, I think keeping him on the floor has got to be the biggest thing they can do in game three because right now he might be their best offensive player. The way, you know, ants, obviously not 100%. Um, but Jaden does things, and he's what what's the tallest guy? Spurs start besides Wemby, 6'7, right?

SPEAKER_01 12:06

And they've been putting they they brought Brian in last night because he's 6'6 and strong, but yeah, they are small, man. Jaden can get a shot off anytime as long as Wemby's not doubling off Gobert on him.

SPEAKER_02 12:18

Yep. So and even last night when Wemby was switched on him, I that was I I was just I'm such a Jaden fan. I have been for a long time. But that being able to go at Wemby and hit that little floater, and he, you know, he he had to work for it, but he scored right over top of Wemby. And I was like, man, that is that is some tough stuff that Jaden is able to do. And so he's just he's gotta play like 30, probably 40 minutes, right? He's gotta play 40 minutes for them to do that.

SPEAKER_01 12:44

Yeah, he's 36 at minimum. Yeah, he's a matchup problem for them, and he was the one guy that went, you know, they kind of based on how they do their defense, they force you to kind of do some of that ISO stuff, and he was the one guy that seemed pretty effective. Um, and he's just gotta be smarter, you know. You know, he just gets too handsy, you know, he goes, he gets frustrated and maybe fouls one or two times that he doesn't need to, and then it puts him in foul trouble, and then he's off the court. And you know, at this point in his career, he's gotta have learned those lessons by now, you know, and I'm still waiting for it to be consistent. But you know, once he learns those lessons that, you know, I gotta stay on the court, I can still be a great defender, show the officials my hands, you know, not bite on dumb pump fakes, not not give up the stupid foul, then he'll be able to get those minutes that we need him to get. And he's a he's a matchup problem for the Spurs for sure.

SPEAKER_02 13:46

I hate to keep going back to it, but this is where, again, where you could play Dante on a more like Stefan Castle, right? Like he he could guard him for a few minutes. Io could guard him for a few minutes to give Jaden time off. And instead, you're going to Jalen Clark, and he just doesn't have the offensive punch those other guys do. And now so you're just in I it sucks because I do feel like fully healthy, we're probably better than the Spurs. I I don't know that we are right now.

SPEAKER_01 14:15

Jalen's a weird deal because you know, towards the end of the year when when we had those injuries and and uh he was playing a little bit more, he was kind of hitting that consistent catch and shoot corner three, and he just looked hesitant to shoot it last night. And I just don't know, like I mean, as a as a shooter, you're either you're either gonna knock that down or you're not. And he's shown that he can do it, but he just he didn't seem like he wanted to shoot the ball at all. Um, and that's a concern because as good as he is defensively, if they don't have to guard him and Gobert out there, then they just load up on all the other guys, and it's dang near impossible to score.

SPEAKER_02 14:57

Yeah, you almost can only play Clark with the the Nas Julius front court, right? Like, because you just can't have another Nashooter out there at that time, which they're they're just getting to the point where they're having to create some really unique lineups that might struggle uh against this team. I mean, this is just I said it uh in the last podcast, I did a preview in kind of the series, but what a different like dynamic between the Denver series and this series. And I I think the Wolves are flexible enough to win both. Um, they obviously can beat Denver, but um I feel like the Spurs are a little bit like the Wolves maybe a couple years ago, not as big, but like they rotate, they're so athletic on the perimeter, they put so much ball pressure on you. Um, and then they got the big, you know, Wemby versus Gobert, but uh in the back end. So they're they're like us in that way, but they're right now they just at least last night, they just look faster, more athletic, and more dynamic because they have multiple guys that can shoot versus the wolves are kind of down to like two and a half guys that can shoot to three right now.

SPEAKER_01 16:05

Yeah, it's it's definitely a different uh dynamic with the Spurs because they you know, with Denver, it was clear let's make Jamal and and uh Jokic work. Let's wear them down, let's make them anytime they score, they gotta work to score. They gotta, you know, and then we're gonna make them work. We put Jokic in a lot of pick and roll situations, made them work on defense. And and I that I think Jokic and Jamal were I exhausted at the end of every game in that series. But they the Spurs are a little deeper. They uh spread it, spread it out a little bit more. Everybody they put out there is a a threat for the most part, except for maybe Cornet and and um uh but yeah, I think you know they can match our athleticism, and we gotta beat them. We we got to beat them with our size and physicality, but yeah, we gotta play it much smarter and much more disciplined. I mean, those transition baskets as a coach, those just because you're you can get back. Like getting back is just awareness and and intensity. And that that was as a coach, I'm just like, man, that that those hurt. Those transition, easy transition buckets, those are hard to recover from.

SPEAKER_02 17:22

Off makes. Those are the ones that I like. Free throws, made baskets, like, come on, man, what are we doing? That that was kind of where I felt like once the lead got to about 20, I'm you could almost tell that they're like, eh, I'm gonna save it. I'm saving it for game three. I don't know. That was just a vibe I got, which I don't think is the right mentality.

SPEAKER_01 17:45

And then the Spurs went on another run, and then that it was a wrap after that.

SPEAKER_02 17:50

Yeah, yeah. So going into game three, um, you know, obviously the physicality, the effort, the intensity needs to be there. I mean, you're playing in front of your home court, home crowd. Um, what do you think are gonna be the biggest uh maybe their adjustments beyond just like that thing, like effort, right? Like you just gotta play a little bit harder. Um, what what do you think schematically the wolves can do to slow down the Spurs? Make more so maybe on even on defense, just get them to have to guard and respect our respect us more.

SPEAKER_01 18:25

I would say the number one thing is they they gotta get those uh um transition baskets taken care of. You know, even if they're just saying we're not gonna crash the old boards, but we're not gonna let them just we gotta get back. You can't give up easy baskets and play off basketball. That's too important. Um, so that's you gotta address that. I would I would think, you know, you kind of talked about it uh pairing Conley and and Ant. Um so that Conley can kind of run the offense, ant can kind of be off the ball a little bit, which makes it harder for them to jump them and trap them. Um you know, doing a little bit of that. Whether Desumu is is healthy is a big is a big thing. It's uh you gotta you gotta figure that out. Um, but if he's not healthy, then you know that that makes it a little tougher. But pairing those two, getting Ant off the ball a little bit, and you know, Finch has to make a decision. I think in the fourth quarter of the game one, they went with that Randall Nas pairing for what seemed like more of extended time, and then Rudy came back in to kind of finish the game on defense in the last four minutes. But I think that lineup, as long as we can rebound out of it, gives the Spurs a tougher time because Wemby can't just he can't ignore Nas. And Nas was the one guy, I think he maybe hit two or three threes last night. That you Wemby can't leave him. And if they do leave him, then we need to make sure we we get him the ball. Um, so just you know, I I know it's we're not nearly as good defensively, but it might be a a series where Gobert isn't playing huge minutes. Um, you know, he's he's uh in the closing, he's starting, you know, he's in there when we need him, but maybe going more with the Nas Randall um just to keep Wemby out of the paint might help. But uh, you know, it it doesn't really matter if the guys aren't gonna execute the game plan and do the things that they need to do and play with winning habits. Uh it doesn't really matter what Finch adjustments he makes. The guys gotta be a little bit more mature and a little more disciplined in what they're doing.

SPEAKER_02 20:44

Yeah, yeah. I I mean it's hard because there I think I I was listening to Dane Moore talk about this. I think it was him. They talked about the um offensive rating and defensive rating with Rudy on and off, right? And the defensive rating is like so much better, but the offensive rating is historically low when Rudy's on the court. So you're in this like super hard position as Finch. And in game one, you could manage it because you had a lead. And the reason they got that lead is because they played the Julius Nas group together and they scored. They were able to pull Wemby out. Um, they could get buckets at the rim, and then when they got the lead, you put Rudy back in and you could play defense to finish the game out. I don't know how that plays out in the first and second quarters, though, because um, you know, you can't let the game get out of hand early because you're completely unable to score. I think the other thing with that group is you have ball handling. Like you could throw it to Julius at the nail or the high post, and he can he can not only can facilitate, but he can score from there. Rudy is never gonna do that. And so having if they're gonna be blitzing, if they're gonna be trapping, now you have another ball handler versus when Rudy's on the court, you you're playing four on five or four on four on the backside, really. So um

SPEAKER_01 22:00

I actually think Randall does a really good job on Wemby. It's kind of like when uh PJ Tucker used to guard Carl Anthony Towns. Yeah you know, just get in a space, but he had the strength where he could stand him up. Um, you know, Wemby had that one nice move where he spun and scored in the middle, but Randall, Randall gives him a tough time because of his strength and he's just tall enough to kind of you know at least put a hand in his face. Um but that strength I think bothers Wemby. Uh, you know, you're just gonna have to dig on him if he's trying to dribble, dribble around in the paint. But I I'm not I don't think you need to have Rudy out there to guard Wemby because the rest of the team's so small that you know we match up fine. Um, you know, as long as Nas is in a stance and sliding his feet, you know, and trying to stay in front of people, I think you can be a little better defenders um with Gobert out not out there. But it it's a tough deal. You know, I'm a defensive guy, I understand the value of Rudy, but sometimes you gotta look at the matchups and say, he, you know, when he's out there on offense, there is nothing in the lane where that unless we can throw him lobs, there's just nothing there. Um so we gotta we turn into a kind of swinging around and someone jacks a three-pointer up. And that if they're going in, great. But if they're not, your your offense looks like it did last night. Right.

SPEAKER_02 23:27

Yeah, I mean, I think this is why I kind of feel like you have to put Rudy's screening away from the ball in this series because if you screen the ball, Wemby's gonna be the guy helping, and you don't want that. If you screen Rudy away from the ball, um, and then there's been a times in this series where Wemby's guarded Shannon. Um, and I think the Wolves would take that. Like you said, he he should be able to get by him.

SPEAKER_00 23:56

And then barely anyone can stay in front of Shannon, right?

SPEAKER_02 23:59

Even when they know he's going left every single time, which is crazy. But I think the difference is like normally you'd have ant as the ball handler, right? And now, but now when ant is the ball handler, who are you kicking out to? You're kicking out to Shannon or you know, so maybe Mike Conley. But like, so if Shannon becomes Ant, Shannon hit breaks the paint, Shannon's the playmaker, and now you're kicking out to Ant, your best three-point shooter right now. Which means I kind of like that dynamic.

SPEAKER_01 24:27

The problem with that is Shannon's not a very good passer.

SPEAKER_02 24:32

No. Yeah. He's not great, but yeah, I mean, your options are Mike Conley and Shannon and Ant. Um, and Ant's on like basically 45. He's got knees like you and I do, I bet right now. So uh he's just not as explosive.

SPEAKER_01 24:49

19 years in the league is and the fact that he's still pretty effective is is pretty pretty amazing.

SPEAKER_02 24:56

Yeah. The key is Ile. Like, if you can get Ile playing, like I don't think he looked great last night, like he didn't look healthy. I mean, he's the other guy. Like, he is a good passer and he is quick and he has a burst. Not as much as Shannon, but he is that guy. If you could unlock some some bear uh what are the chambers that Ants was laying in to get his knees right, like he needs some of that therapy to get healthy because um now you got somebody who can get downhill and is a good passer.

SPEAKER_01 25:28

Well, luckily they said it was a heel and not his calf. So, you know, if it's just the kind of a you know, something that they can treat and he can be ready to go, maybe put a little extra padding in the shoe. I you know, it's hard to tell. But yeah, we're he's when when Dante went down, I was like, We're okay because we had him. Right. We're gonna we're gonna be okay. But then when he went down, I'm like, man, we're deep, but I don't know if we're that deep because our ball handling, our bell, our ball handling is uh is our biggest issue, and now you know our best ball handlers are banged up, except for Conley, and he's dang near 40 years old.

SPEAKER_02 26:11

Right. Who and he's been playing well, like I I mean the the the whole playoffs basically since Dante and Ant went down in game four in the Denver series. I I feel like Mike's and I I kind of said this at the end of the regular season, he was starting to like make some shots again, and I'm like, you know, it felt stupid at the time to say, like, oh, Mike Conley could be an X Factor because he was hardly playing. But now you look at him, he he's because he does the right things defensively, he he battles a little bit, like as much as he can at his age and size, and he makes winning plays a lot. So I I'm I hope they keep uh I could see them going back to him and Ant. I think Ant might get the start in game three, and you kind of get back to a little bit more regular lineup and bring Shannon off the bench and Bones and Nas. Um Nas also I think has been playing pretty well considering his God, we look like a mash unit last night. Did you see the image of the they showed the wolves bench? Ant's got ice on both knees. Nas, yeah, ice, and Io's not even there because he's I don't know, he must have been in the training room or whatever. And God, I'm like, this is just this is too bad. But uh you come home, your your role players are gonna play better. Like I I I've I'm still confident the Wolves can at least push it to six, seven games, maybe, maybe win the series.

SPEAKER_01 27:26

I s I I still think you know we need some things to go the right way. The biggest thing is, you know, the execution, the turnovers, you can't you can't have more than 15. We're we're not gonna win if we're giving them that that many more possessions than us. Um because of their the way they're pushing the ball, we're not able to offensive rebound, you know, the way that that we probably need to. And it really comes down to a possession game. And if you know, if we're turning the ball over 20 plus times, it's it's pretty hard to beat a team that that's as good as the Spurs, even with their lack of experience in the playoffs. Um, because really they're gonna turn those turnovers into easy buckets. And uh yeah, the turnover situation, that was that was the glaring, glaring thing to me, and then not getting back on defense. Uh you're not gonna you're just not gonna beat any good teams doing that.

SPEAKER_02 28:21

Right. It's funny, uh, I'm looking at the stats from both games right now, and and they're actually quite similar in terms of like points off turnovers, uh, fast break points. The the game we won, they outscored us 27 to 10 in fast break points in game one. Yeah, and in game two it was 29 to 5. So, you know, a difference, but not like crazy. And then the turnovers are the biggest thing that changed from game one because uh paint points in the paint would be the other one. Uh points in the paint, they had the same amount in both games, and we went from 52 to 36. So, like points in the paint, obviously a lot of transition. Um, you know, I I think you're right. The fast break points are are huge, and especially off of those made baskets. Like, if if you just take away, I don't know how many they had last night, uh, that's not tracked here, but like, okay, they're gonna get 12 to 16, probably just in general, off of a rebound or off of a steal, but you gotta limit those other easy ones that should not happen.

SPEAKER_01 29:26

Yeah, that you know, that's the and that's when you unless you're in the locker room, you don't know if that's a scheme issue of what they were trying to do or if it was an effort issue or uh an awareness issue. It looked like an effort awareness issue to me. Um, because the first game I noticed there were times where nobody crashed the offensive boards and everybody was getting back, and they were giving up nothing easy, and I have a feeling that's what the game plan was, and they just didn't do it last night. They just decided that was not something they were interested in doing, which is frustrating for a coach and fans.

SPEAKER_02 30:06

So to your point, the offensive rebounds in games one and two were exactly the same. We had 12, they had 13. Um, so it's not like we were attacking the glass more in game two and just they were beating us down the court. It was literally we're we weren't doing that either, apparently. So um yeah, I mean the turnovers are a huge one. Like game five in Denver, it was 25 turnovers. Last night it was 22. And I feel like that just it there's some rhythm things when Jaden goes out, but like just in general, I mean, as as a coach, you know that like that that's a kill, those are killers. The live ball turnovers are just you know, it's less chances for you to score and usually a layup for the other team, layup or dunk.

SPEAKER_01 30:49

Like I always tell them tell my guys, um figuring out how to win isn't super complicated. It's you know, take care of the ball, rebound, play good defense, make good decisions, and but it's hard to do consistently to do those things and to keep yourself disciplined. And uh I think the wolves are a microcosm of of that exact statement. Like, it's not complicated, guys. You you have the talent, you know what you're supposed to do, but getting yourself mentally to do it all the time is seems to be our our biggest hurdle.

SPEAKER_02 31:27

This wolves team or this this iteration the last five, six years of it, has given me a new perspective. I used to be, I would have been like, oh, it's over. Like you can just tell we don't got it. And now I'm like, you know what? Finch has done a lot of great coaching, he's pulled the right lovers. This team is gritty when they need to be. I I I I kind of feel like they're gonna they're gonna probably split these home games and we'll go back 2-2 and it'll be a three-game series. Uh, I just I don't know.

SPEAKER_01 31:52

I I'd be interested to see this these uh um Spurs, young guys. Yes, if they can hold up physically. All right, like they're they're pretty young. I mean, De'Aaron Fox and Barnes are our seasoned vets, and but the rest of the guys are really young, and you know, the physical toll and mental toll it takes. We saw it happen to the Wolves, I think, in that uh two years ago in that Dallas Western Conference, they just they had nothing left. Yep. And it was clear as day they just had nothing left mentally and physically, and they even said so after. Um, and I'm wondering if the Spurs uh will hold up. You know, we'll see, especially Wemby, you know, he's he's uh he's an alien, you know, he's he's crazy, but physically he he uh gets banged up a lot. And so we'll we'll see. I I'm I think that is something that I'm keeping my eye on on how they're uh how they're gonna hold up physically and mentally over these next two games. If they make it through these next two games and nobody's hurt or and nobody's out, then you know I think they'll probably find a way to get this done. But you know, I we're that's the experience, and we got a lot of guys with some old man strength on our team, and uh that's a different level of strength.

SPEAKER_02 33:14

Even our young guys, quote unquote young guys, Nas and Jaden and Ant and uh Io, like those type TJ, they're they're like, you know, they're pretty experienced players. So like the core of that group is been in the league six or seven years, and Shannon's like a 25-year-old second-year player or whatever, 26 years old. I think he's older than Ant. So I mean, yeah, that that's always an interesting thing, too, is like these road games with young, young teams like that. You know, I think of like the Wolves the first couple years, right? They had the Memphis series where they just kind of couldn't finish those games off and lost a couple close ones, and then the next year they play in Denver and uh they lose 4-1 and they battle, but they just kind of struggle in in some of those fourth quarters as well. And so um, you know, these road games are in the playoffs, second round, it's gonna be interesting, especially if the wolves come out and kind of punch first um to see how they respond, because you get that home crowd, as we found last night, right? That home crowd gets going and everything's going your way, and shots are going in, and it just floodgates can open.

SPEAKER_01 34:16

So uh I won't be there, but target center is gonna is gonna be on fire. Hopefully the wolves give them something to stay engaged with, but yeah, yeah, it's it's gonna be a loud place and it's gonna have a lot of energy. So I'm I'm excited to see what happens. Um but as a Minnesota sports fan, you just brace yourself for the for the inevitable uh heartbreak. But uh I just keep coming back for more. I'm a glutton for punishment.

SPEAKER_02 34:44

That's right. I mean, you don't get to our age and be a Minnesota sports fan without having a little bit of I mean, we also have to have grit and toughness and you know resolve to continue to come back for this.

SPEAKER_00 34:55

You got the scars to show it, that's for sure.

SPEAKER_02 34:57

100%. Uh all right. So let's talk a little bit about shooting. Uh you opened Mackenzie Shooting Academy, start uh taking some um appointments, I don't know what you call them, uh in June. Training sessions, yeah. Training sessions, okay. How did this come about? Um and uh yeah, like what's kind of your your mission vision statement for Mackenzie Shooting Academy?

SPEAKER_01 35:23

Um, so I mean, really it came up, you know, when Egan and I parted ways. Uh, you know, we I took a look around and said, you know, I'm not ready to just go off into the sunset and be done. Um, you know, as an educator, I have some time in the in the summer, and I was just thinking, you know, what can I do to uh to stay involved and um you know keep coaching and help some kids out? And so, you know, I talked to uh Reed Osi at Catalyst, um, I talked uh Therese Van Pelt at TV P Academy, and I I asked him, I said, you know, is there a market for for families and players just looking to uh get better at shooting? Because that's something that I've identified that uh I do a pretty good job coaching. Um I've had uh numerous guys uh make over 15 threes in their career. Um and it's not just me, but I've been able to help them, you know, uh with their technique. I've been able to help them with their confidence um and uh putting them in position to uh be an elite shooter. And uh, you know, of course, I taught my sons how to shoot. And um, my son Michael McKenzie was one of the best shooters in the state. He was a senior this year, made over 173s in his his varsity career. And uh it's just something that I identified as something that I enjoy doing and that uh I'm pretty effective at. So uh after talking to those guys that are in the space, they said, yes, there's definitely people that are just looking, I want to I need help with my shot. I need to become a better shooter. Um, and uh and that's where I can help them specifically. And so I figured that uh I would give it a shot and open up some training sessions starting in June. Uh, we'll do them on Mondays, and we'll we have a youth session and a uh high school/slash college session. We'll have at max eight got eight people, boys and girls, um, you know, and men and women that are allowed to come. And you know, I'm really gonna focus in on uh trying to help them become either uh good shooters if they're at the beginner level or if they're already a good shooter, help them move to the next level. Uh, you know, I've basically will be using the techniques and the system that I use to teach my sons. Um, and I have another son, Andrew, who's coming up. He's an eighth grader right now, going to be ninth grader next year. And both of them are regarded as some of the best shooters in their class in the state. And uh, you know, but the stuff that I learned and developed and have them go through has has been very successful. And I think I can emulate that and help other people. And uh that's the hope. And we'll give it a shot. And uh, we got some people already signed up for these training sessions. They're they're filling up quick, and that's a good sign. But uh hopefully we garner some results.

SPEAKER_02 38:30

Well, I'm sure you will. Uh your uh, you know, your history speaks for itself as far as shooting. Um I think you're right about the market, too. Like we were talking earlier about how the a lot of the Instagram training videos you see that come through your feet are ball handling and finishing and and combination moves and things like that, but there's just not a lot of just straight up shooting, which is still one of the most, you know, the most important part of the game, right? Putting the ball in the basket.

SPEAKER_01 38:57

So uh it's also the biggest equalizer in the game, right? Yeah, like yeah.

SPEAKER_02 39:02

Three-point shot, right? Yeah, yeah. Big runs, you know, start a lot of times with that or end with that, right? Um when you when you start coaching shooting, let's just say you got an average shooter, what are the first things you're looking for that they're doing that that you could improve? Like what are is it is it feet, is it hand placement, is it shoulders? What what are you looking for?

SPEAKER_01 39:29

So the the thing that I that I tend to do is first I just watch the kids shoot a little bit. Everyone has kind of a unique shooting pocket, is what I call it. You know, there's there's so many great shooters, but you to to give you an example, like Steph Curry has a totally different shooting pocket than Kevin Durant. Both of them elite shooters. What they have in common are their their placement of the ball on under their elbow, their wrist flexion, and the way that their body and their balance is positioned, um, and and really their their ability to to have their body work together, which is for you know, basically you call rhythm. Um but the the ball placement, uh the the wrist flexion, the balance, um, and the rhythm are all things that every great shooter needs. Um where that is released from, where the shooting pocket is, um is can fluctuate. There thing there are things like not everybody is gonna shoot exactly the same. You know, my my sons were both kind of six footers, so we we emulated Steph Curry. Um and that's we I basically studied his shot and the things that he did to get his shot where it was, and that's how I taught my my sons. I had another point guard who was uh was all conference named Oscar Kazan. Uh and he shot he had a more uh uh a higher release. Um shot more kind of like Kevin Durant style shot, and he shot 46% from three his senior year, um, was an absolute great shooter, but he just had a little different shot, but they all had you know those things, those uh ball placement under the elbow and great balance, um great rhythm. And uh, you know, the thing, the thing that's hard with shooting is it's not as fun to work on becoming an elite shooter than it is to become an elite ball handler, elite finisher. Like working on those combo moves and those stepbacks and those hesies and and the crossovers and the finishing at the rim, like those are the fun, fun things to do. Doing 50, you know, mid-range catch and shoot, everything's exactly the same every time, isn't as much fun, but it is what you need to do to be an effective shooter, and the the players that are willing to do those things are the ones that become great shooters, and uh you know it's you know, it's all it's about repetition, so we kind of break it down into three things. So if I have a kid for an hour, we're gonna do 20 minutes of straight technique where it's just really focusing on those things that I talked about. Um, form shooting, just mid-range catch and shoot, just constantly doing the same thing over and over again. Then we're gonna practice those shots in kind of a game shooting format where you know you're getting an inside out pass, you gotta make the shot, you know, move different spots, maybe coming off screens, working on the footwork, but doing more of those game speed shots, but repetition of those. And then the last one, and this is the one that a lot of people miss out on when they're training, you gotta do competitive shooting drills. Whether you're going against yourself and you're, I have to make this many, or I have a consequence, or I'm going against someone else, and we're competing, because you have to get that swagger. And there's no way to just get that swagger as a shooter needs unless you're practicing the competition and the pressure that you're gonna feel in a game, and you're not gonna emulate exactly what that pressure feels like uh in games, but you can get as close as you can. So we do 20 minutes technique, 20 minutes practice, 20 minutes competition. And uh that's what I did with my sons, and it just it it really panned out for Michael, and it seems to be doing the same for Andrew. Um, and that's what we did in in our Egan camps during the summer. We always had Wednesday was our shooting day, and we would, you know, technique, practice, compete. And um, you know, we really uh one of the things I I think there was. A few programs better than us in shooting, but not a lot of programs better than us in shooting. And um, you know, I think that the way that I went ahead and operated in the summer to get those guys focused on the right things uh helped us during the season. So that's kind of my philosophy on how we we go about things.

SPEAKER_02 44:19

Love it. Yeah, I think the competition, even if, like you said, it's not exactly game-like, it teaches you to have urgency and you know, how do you handle and stay calm when the clock is running down and you don't want to do your consequence, right? Like whatever that is. Like a two-minute wall set. I man, I really don't want to do that. I gotta make the shot. Like that, at least it's it's like any other practice, right? That repetition of having that pressure and and learning to deal with it.

SPEAKER_01 44:46

So it's amazing what kids will do to avoid 10 push-ups.

SPEAKER_02 44:53

True. Yeah, yeah, we find that out too. Um what I'm curious on footwork uh on shooting and what your philosophy is. Uh, there's obviously a few different ways people teach it, and depending on like where you are on the floor, depending on where, you know, if you're coming off screens and which types of screens. Um, do you kind of like go through a progression of footwork or do you try to teach like all of it so that there are different scenarios where you're gonna use that different footwork?

SPEAKER_01 45:20

Well, the first thing is, you know, uh we were talking about this earlier, but when we grew up, it was both feet pointed at your target, shoulders square, like that's how you shot, right? Um, but as you know, Steph Curry came into to the world and kind of what I would say has perfected the shooting form, um, as well as I've seen. I mean, there might be someone who comes and does it better, but uh be amazing. Um, what you see is they they kind of turn their their toes a little bit. They kind of turn and and twist their body a little bit. And the thought process being when you shoot, your body naturally wants to twist. And one of the main things about elite shooters is there are there's no wasted movement. Like you want to be in total control of any movement that's happening. So um first thing is just turning those feet a little bit, and that's something new in the last 10-15 years that you do, and then that really lines up your uh your your legs with your elbow and and getting every get your body under the ball. Um, so that's one thing that I've I've really uh adjusted on over the years based on when I was shooting, based on how I teach my kids. The other thing is is you know, some people like to one-two step into their shot and some people like to hop. What I've learned is doesn't matter. Like do what's you feel most comfortable with. Now, when you hop into the shot, you can use either foot as your pivot foot. So that's a benefit of that. When you one-two into it, you kind of establish what that pivot foot's gonna be. But some guys feel like that gives them a lot more control and they're much more uh, you know, um in rhythm that way. But uh the main thing is with your feet, they gotta be locked and loaded when the ball gets there. All right. You what what a lot of young guys do that I've seen that are inconsistent with their shot, they may have good form, they may have a lot of things, but they catch and then they dip and then they shoot. All right. And uh so your footwork, whether you hop into it or one two-step into it, you want to be locked and loaded when that ball gets there. So you're not, again, having a bunch of wasted movement, which you know it has to be correct every time. And if you eliminate that dip, then you're eliminating some some movement that you have to correct every time. Um, but you know, there's things like when I come off screens, I I do still teach inside foot coming off screens when you're curling off screens. Get inside foot because your body's gonna follow. If you can get that foot in turned inside, the rest of your body's gonna follow. Um, so that's the one area where I'm kind of, you know, inside foot is probably the best thing when you're coming off, you know, pinned down screens and things of that nature. But when you're coming off flare screens and things that, um, whether you one two into it or hop into it, it's really up to you. Um, or if you're taking a getting an inside out pass and you're either one, two or hop into it, it's really up to you, um, as long as you're locked and loaded. Uh, so there's there's a lot of different, you know, scenarios where the footwork's important. Um, but uh the main thing is you gotta get your your butt your body underneath um the ball, and you gotta get yourself in position to have good rhythm and eliminate that wasted movement. Um, if you do those things, then you give yourself a really good chance uh to be a good shooter.

SPEAKER_02 48:52

One of the things I've always appreciated about Steph Curry is his conditioning and his like no standing, right? He is he is moving a lot. And as someone who was not very quick myself and is still never became quick at all, um, and if you could shoot a little bit, people are gonna just, you know, always be on you, right? So getting free and being moved, you know, being very active off the ball and and you know, just needing a little bit of space, but how do you create that space? Are there I'm assuming there's drills or like what how do you incorporate conditioning and movement into shooting uh to maximize that?

SPEAKER_01 49:34

Yeah, there's you know, I there's drills that you can do, but we definitely uh work on things where guys will be at the uh three-point line, and then I'll have them sprint to the block and then pretend like they're coming off a pin down and hitting the and then being ready to hit that shot, being ready to go. Um, emulating those type of movements. Um, you know, we I call it the Michael Michael Jordan drill, where you have guys on the elbows and they have a ball and a rebounder, and you're just going back and forth coming off that inside foot for like a minute. Um, because yeah, that is true. Like right now, I could go hit eight of ten from each spot at the three-point line right now. But if you made me run up and down the court, I'm hitting three of ten, four of ten in an empty gym. Like, yeah, shooting is different when you when you're not conditioned. Like anybody can be a decent shooter uh if you don't have to sprint around and and be conditioned. Steph Curry takes it to a different level. I've never seen anyone move without the ball as well as he does. Uh the other things that that he does really well of is is set up his cuts, is just walk guys down, you know, be a little physical, and then he comes off shoulders, you know, and he reads how the defense is playing them, and he anticipates are they gonna you know try to knife through the screen, are they gonna chase, um, and you know, using his screens well, and that's that's high-level stuff that you know it's even you know, my son Michael, who uh saw a lot of face guarding in his his high school career, he had a tough time, you know, figuring out how to get himself open when they were face guarding. And those are the things we worked on. Like be a little patient, have a little deception, make them think you're gonna go off a different screen and then go off the screen that you know you're supposed to come off of having some patience, um, using their aggression against them by mixing in a backcut from time to time. Um, you know, those things are super important, really hard to teach, and even harder for athletes to to be in condition well enough to actually do. Um, but those are all things that we'll try to work on at the shooting academy, uh, depending on what level that each each player is at.

SPEAKER_02 52:07

Yeah, I mean, not to turn this into a Steph Curry Love Fest, but I mean his finishing or on the rim.

SPEAKER_01 52:13

You kind of need to.

SPEAKER_02 52:14

Uh you kind of have to, true. Uh but his finishing around the rim and his cutting and his his ability to hit floaters in the lane. Like he doesn't settle. Like, that's the thing about him. Yes, it's the flashy threes, it's the deep logo shots, but he has so many other things that keep the defense honest that it's it is just it's fun to watch him uh just navigate navigate a game from start to finish.

SPEAKER_01 52:40

Yeah, and he had to develop those things because you know that those don't come naturally, and he is he's a world-class athlete, but as far as NBA players go, he's a little above average athlete. And so he had to learn how to how to set his guys up, how to make those movements. Um, and then his ball handling is good. And that's the other thing is there, I I've seen a lot of really good shooters over my years that are really good at catch and shoot. Like, wow, he can really catch and shoot. What what sets some other shooters apart from those are the guys who can shoot off the dribble, that can come off a ball screen or set their guy up and and and be just as effective off the dribble. And uh that's kind of you know what sets some dudes apart is I can not only catch and shoot and make at 40%, but I can also um you know hit a step in three off a fast break, you know, with the ball in my hand, or come off a ball screen and you're in drop coverage and and hit a three. And that's a different different type of training, you know. And I think a lot of uh kids and a lot of families and trainers focus on that catch and shoot, and that determines whether you're a great shooter. Um, but at this day and age, you gotta be equally as good off the dribble.

SPEAKER_02 54:03

Yeah, a hundred percent. It's uh I mean I would say maybe the difference between a shooter and a scorer, right? Like scorers, you're taking what you get. Shooters are just kind of, you know, you don't want uh in my opinion, like that's just a tough place to be because eventually somebody can, you know, it is harder to guard someone who can cut, who can, you know, come off a screen and attack the the middle of the floor and hit a pull-up, you know, from 10, 12 feet. You know, that's just um you know, the difference in mentality of a scorer and uh being content, shoot, just catch and shoot, like you said.

SPEAKER_01 54:40

And you see that I saw that the biggest uh jump I saw was when James Harden was with OKC in his younger years, he was a catch and shoot guy. You know, he was playing off Westbrook and and Durant, and he would hit threes off catch and shoot, and then he got to Houston and he developed just that crazy step back and uh being able to pull up off off screens and um and then he was just a different animal once he started doing that. Um so you gotta you gotta you gotta be versatile if you want to be an elite shooter. It can't just be catch and shoot because then you're you're totally reliant on other guys to get you the ball.

SPEAKER_02 55:18

Yeah. Absolutely. Well, I'm excited for you, man. Uh this is this is awesome. Uh, what's the website if people want to find you? It's McKenzie Shooting Academy.com.

SPEAKER_01 55:31

Oh, all right. Easy to remember. I like it.

SPEAKER_00 55:33

Yeah, pretty easy.

SPEAKER_01 55:35

We're calling call it MSA uh to make it a little a little simpler, but nice.

SPEAKER_02 55:42

Uh I assume uh it's on Instagram as well. Uh is that primarily where you're at? Instagram?

SPEAKER_01 55:48

Yeah, Instagram right now. We just we just rolled out the website two weeks ago. So just trying to build it up and uh start small, see where it goes from there. But uh excited to work with anybody that uh wants to become a great shooter.

SPEAKER_02 56:02

Awesome, man. Um and then lastly, uh when do your session start? June, I know you saw it.

SPEAKER_01 56:10

The first one is uh June 15th. We do have some spots open there. Um we're gonna be every Monday during the summer uh in the afternoon. Um I think one session's uh 12:30 to 1.30 and then 1.30 to 2.30. Uh so it's uh a little dependent on your schedule. Uh as things get busier, we'll try to add some more sessions, but wanted to fill these Monday slots up first and take it from there.

SPEAKER_02 56:37

Awesome. Well, uh, if you have a child uh interested or yourself, uh, I think most of the audience here is is probably more in the child age. Uh you have children of your own. But um, yeah, hit up uh McKenzie Shooting Academy. Kevin, it's always great to have you on. Good to good to talk to you as always, man.

SPEAKER_01 56:55

Yeah, thanks. Thanks, appreciate it. Love talking wolves with you. Um, let's go get some wins here this weekend.

SPEAKER_02 57:04

I want to thank Kevin McKenzie from McKenzie Shooting Academy again for joining me. Great conversation, always fun to catch up with him and pick his brain on basketball. And today we focused obviously on shooting and shooting mechanics as he opens the McKenzie Shooting Academy down in Burnsville. Um, excited for game three and game four this weekend. We'll be watching, uh be watching on Friday night at a establishment in Minneapolis. So excited to kind of be around the crowd and the environment and get a little bit of a taste of uh the group setting. Hopefully the wolves can play a little bit better than they did game two. And then um next week we'll have an episode on pickup basketball, a really exciting conversation about uh the nuances and the uniqueness that is uh pickup basketball. Thanks again for listening. Appreciate you being here. This has been the Splash City basketball podcast.

SPEAKER_01 57:57

Begging in, begging in, bag again. Whoa, whoa, bag.