Hello LaMelo: Wolves Acquire PG for Naz Reid PLUS The Surprising 1st-Place Lynx

It has been a wild, whiplash-inducing stretch for professional basketball in Minnesota, and we are breaking it all down in this jam-packed episode. 

First, host Steve Hartman welcomes Derek Long (aka "Croonch" on social media) to process a stunning wave of Minnesota Timberwolves offseason moves. They unpack the emotional fallout of the blockbuster trade sending fan-favorite Naz Reid to Charlotte in exchange for All-Star guard LaMelo Ball. 

From the "business side" vs. the "emotional side" of losing a homegrown legend, to analyzing how LaMelo's elite pick-and-roll play will mesh with Anthony Edwards and Rudy Gobert, they leave no stone unturned. Plus, they dive into the Julius Randle trade, the re-signing of Ayo Dosunmu, NBA draft night featuring second-round pick Isaiah Evans, and assistant coach Micah Nori landing the head coaching job in Portland. 

Then, the conversation shifts to the sizzling-hot Minnesota Lynx, who are currently sitting atop the WNBA standings. The Star Tribune’s Cassidy Hettesheimer joins the show to discuss the immediate, generational impact of rookie point guard Olivia Miles, the #2 overall pick in the draft. Cassidy gives us the latest timeline updates on Napheesa Collier's return from injury, evaluates the elite defensive schemes of Cheryl Reeve using Nia Coffey and Natasha Howard, and explores the legendary player-evaluation and organizational culture built by head coach and GM Reeve. 

• Host: Steve Hartman 
• Guests: Derek Long (@Croonch) & Cassidy Hettesheimer (The Star Tribune) 
• Check out more: Read Cassidy's work at StarTribune.com/sports and follow Derek's writing on Substack.

Listen on Spotify, Apple Podcasts or YouTube. 

Follow Splash City Basketball Podcast on Instagram, TikTok, Facebook and Bluesky. 

Transcript

SPEAKER_01 0:04

Bag in them, back in them, back again. Whoa, whoa, yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_02 0:08

Hello, everyone, and welcome to the Splash City Basketball Podcast. I am your host, Steve Hartman. Really exciting show today. Got two guests on with me, lots to talk about. We have Wolves making moves left and right, plus the draft in the middle of all of that. And the links are off to a hot start. They are leading the WNBA and in first place at 13 and 4 at the time of this recording. Um, exciting time to be a basketball fan in the state of Minnesota. I know there's a lot of strong feelings one way or the other, especially on the Nas Reed Lamello ball trade. And we'll talk a lot about that with Derek Long, also known as Krunch, C-R-O-O-N-C-H on social media. And then we'll talk links with the Star Tribunes. Cassidy Hedesheimer, excited to bring her on and talk about the links. There is a lot of excitement for that team, especially without Star Player Nafesha Collier even playing yet this season. They are in first place. Another thing, just to give you a heads up, there's a couple weeks yet before it kicks off, but um the Twin Cities Pro Am taking place over at De LaSalle on the island in Minneapolis. Should be a lot of fun. Um, it's always a good time. There's there's great basketball played, there's a lot of high-level basketball players that participate, including some professionals, college guys just out of college, some elite local high school players sometimes get in on the action. So if you haven't been there, uh definitely want to plug that. I'm trying to get the organizers on the pod to talk about it, but love to do that because that's a great experience if you're a basketball fan in the Twin Cities or in the state of Minnesota and you're in the Twin Cities area. There's games starting, I believe it's uh the week of July 7th, uh, sixth, seventh that week, I believe games start. So uh check that out if you have time. They are on Instagram and you can follow them there. Um, quick note if you are on TikTok, Splash City Basketball Podcast, I will be posting videos there as well on TikTok. So um give us a follow there. Of course, subscribe, follow wherever you get your podcasts, wherever you get your social media, we'll be there. Um, and of course, splashcitybasketball.com. So without further ado, let's get into the content because we got a lot to talk about. We've got Derek Long and I talking about the Timberwolves and the exciting crazy whirlwind week uh of Timberwolves basketball. It's been quite a week already. NBA draft took place, wolves made some moves, lots of moves, big moves, small moves, expected moves, unexpected moves. There's a lot to take in, there's a lot to discuss. Uh, lucky tonight to have Derek Long, also known as Crunch, on social media, joining me to break it all down, talk about the turmoil, the state of the turn wolves, man. It's it's been a whirlwind. Uh how how are you feeling big picture right now uh post LaMelo for Nas trade?

SPEAKER_01 3:02

Well, gosh, a little whiplash. Uh this morning when I mean the news news breaks. I I was I just we just had twins. And so I had them both double baby Bjorn, and my wife was sleeping a little bit, uh, and I went in and I had to wait. I literally had to wake her up to tell her this because I was like, I cannot wait. I can't believe this is happening. Um we're a big Nas Reed household. I'm wearing I'm wearing my sorry my Nas Reed uh merch here from 612Ts, a little plug for them. Um but uh I I was kind of shocked. I mean, like you when a player like that, like a fan favorite player gets traded, um it's tough right away to digest, but then you see kind of like the whole trade, and you go, okay, Lamella ball, like it's the business part of it kind of takes over. And so you have your heart ripped out for a second, and then you're like, but wait a second, this might be pretty good. So coming down to Earth a little bit after you take a whole day of like going through Twitter and Instagram and all that stuff, and you have a the emotional side where you see these Nas read highlights and you feel bad, and then the next uh thing you see is how good Lamello Ball is in the pick and roll, and you're like, okay.

SPEAKER_02 4:19

Right. Um, the biggest key for you is that you didn't name one of your kids Nas with a different Timberwolves player that hopefully is safe in terms of trading. Uh I'm sure it'd be okay, but you know, that would have been a tough one to handle, I'm sure.

SPEAKER_01 4:34

Yeah, if we uh well we might have to change some middle names because now uh Nas, I'm skin. Uh but yeah, Conley. Conley, no matter what, I feel like is pretty safe. Uh even if it even if we named one of our kids Nas, um, I think just like the people who had the Nasri tattoos, uh I don't think they're gonna be in line erasing him by any means. He's gonna be a legend forever for the Timberwolves. So um they should they should put the Nasri towel in the rafters, honestly. I think that might be the move. Uh before KG's jersey. I don't know. Maybe that could be like the opener for a KG jersey retirement. The gay Nazi in the rafters uh before that.

SPEAKER_02 5:11

But um, yeah, man, it was crazy. Like I we were kind of talking about how oh, should we do a uh draft night pod and the wolves trade out of the first round? Then it's like, do you do a second night pod? Uh and then you wake up the next morning and it's this. So it's just and as I told you, like I feel like we've kind of forgotten Julius got traded like less than a week ago. So it's just it's been kind of wild. Um, let's let's start in chronological order. Uh, Julius Randall gets traded, um, frees up some money, like it's felt like a salary dump. Um, but also I think you know, people kind of all agreed that the fit just wasn't there anymore. It just wasn't working, like personalities, I don't know what it was. Um, you know, he had a he struggled in the playoffs, especially against the Spurs, but like Kat did too a couple years ago. I don't think that's a reason to trade, trade guys, but um, it just defin definitely felt like it had it was coming at some point. Um, any any like were you surprised or or were you disappointed in what they got back, or what what did is it all certainly not gonna make sense now that we've seen these other moves?

SPEAKER_01 6:22

Yeah, I'm so like again, I'm I'm a very annoying person to talk um off season basketball with. Um, so it's good that you got me on this. Yeah, because all right, with that, our next guest is let's leave it at that. I I'm a big like uh you gotta let it play out kind of thing. Like, I'm not gonna react, overreact to something that happens right away. Like in this situation, like you have ball and you see ball coming in, and you're like, okay, this is obviously gonna be your piece for the next three years. But then when you have that Randall trade where we're on paper in a vacuum, that looks like it looks horrible because you just you if you compare it to what we just got for or we traded cat away, it looks really bad because you're just trading them for nothing. But then you if you take a step back and go, okay, this is the beginning of the offseason. Um obviously this isn't our move that we're gonna make, even though Windhorse was saying this looks like this is what that's gonna happen. Um I can go on about Wind Horse, but anyways, yeah, yeah. Uh you know it based on the con Connolly's track record, like you know that um this isn't gonna this is opening up whatever move is coming, um and kind of just opens up a bunch of different avenues. And you know they're always the Tim Connolly's phone minutes. If they had minutes, you'd have to be like he's on the phone probably all day, every day with like GMs. Any and he you kind of know that like some of these guys are could be available, like a ball or a um uh John Morant and guys like that. So you're kind of ready for that. And so I don't know, I don't it that part where we got back, and then I saw the the the trade from Damore explained that um trading out the first round, which looks horrible again. Um traditionally you probably don't want to trade back and lose one of your top players. Um but then the salary part of it kind of makes sense isn't like you see a lot of these teams in the second second second apron, um new era starting to do this because um you can kind of fit those guys into your to your system a little bit longer on a cheaper, cheaper deal, even though they're pretty much in the same range anyways, from first to second round. And so yeah, looking at a vacuum is obviously shell shocking, and a lot of fans were very upset that night, and then now you're looking okay, yeah, this is what this is what it all opened up for. So I guess a long way of saying, like you just gotta kind of let it let it play out.

SPEAKER_02 8:58

Yeah, yeah. I mean, I I definitely didn't think that that was the big deal we were making. Like it just it felt like we had to move some pieces to do something. Um, I didn't expect what ended up happening with Lamello necessarily. I was fully set on Nas starting, getting 30, 35 minutes a night, like see what he can do when he plays a full game, because I feel like he's earned it, which I think is why, as we talk about the Lamello trade later, I was so like heartbroken because I was really excited to see what Nas would do. Um, you know, in the playoffs, having that stretch four with Rudy seemed to work better offensively, like just spacing wise, it was so much better. Having another solid shooter, especially when you don't have Dante, it just felt like okay, Nas is gonna get his his chance. He's earned this, he's he's kind of grinded through the first few years coming out undrafted. And um, so I you know, I was fully prepared for him to start and like to fill in, maybe, maybe load up the bench a little more with guys, or maybe maybe bring in a point guard, but not maybe a starting and all-star caliber one. Um, so yeah, when then to your point about the draft, I I like what you said though, because it's it's so true. Like we end up getting a guy, many people rated as a first round player. I did not think Isaiah Evans would be there. I'm a Duke fan. Watch a ton of Isaiah Evans, did not think he'd be there uh at 28 or especially at 33. So like when I did a pre-draft uh pod um with Terry Horseman, I was like, you know, I'm looking at some different guys. What surprised me was like Bennett Sturts, Christian Anderson, um, they went way earlier than I thought. They were like 14, 15, 16 in that range. And so I think to get a 6'6, really good shooter who played in a lot of big games, had big moments, um, not a great defender, but like 6'6, like certainly capable, um, not worse than bones. Um, that's what I described him as. Somebody was asking me what I know about him because they know I'm a Duke fan. I said, well, he's gonna shoot it like bones. He's not gonna handle it like bones, but he's a better defender than bones. So it's like kind of, you know, he's a he's got got some juice off the bench. That's what that's what he is. So I like that. And I and it was like a first basically kind of a late first round pick anyway, and you gain the financial flexibility of him being second round. So that was um, I actually think that worked out pretty, pretty well for the for the wolves. We'll see, you know, if he develops and becomes a rotation guy down the road. But um, so yeah, that the draft night kind of a buzz kill. Um, any any big takeaways though from like the first round or like any surprises, just draft general talkers?

SPEAKER_01 11:40

Yeah, I like again. I'm such I'm such a boring off season person. I know you haven't seen him play an NBA game, I get it, but I'm a big like, well, you know, I'm I'm no grades, no grades for me. I'm just like no, no. I like I I'll see a guy and I go, okay, I see them fitting in certain places. And so uh for draft-wise, like I don't think there was anything that like surprised me. Um obviously there's a lot of guards that you like this would have been a great draft for like the wolves to be high up in, but like it is what it is. I'd rather them be competitive and go for it than tank to get one of these picks, which anyways. Um but like you see the you see uh like Evans, like I I really like I just died, I just dove in today because I'm like I'm a big we draft a guy, I'm gonna see kind of like what he's all about. So I do everything backwards. And so I I got like I I go, okay, can he where can he fit in in our game? And like it's kind of funny because like his like structure of how he like plays and moves on the court reminds me of like a mini-me version of like Jaden McDaniels, um which is kind of a weird, kind of a weird comp and probably something that he's something he's not like compared to a lot, but like the way he kind of moves on the floor, um his uh like kind of like fringe, like I feel like he could be a volume score guy. I know in high school he seemed like I was kind of looking at like some high school stuff too, um, because that's interesting to me. It's like he's kind of a kind of like a dude in high school, um, like all these guys are, but um, like he kind of seems like a guy who could like fill it up if he needed to. And Jaden McDaniels was kind of like that too, and you had this length that you're like, man, if you're in certain situations, like he's gonna kind of swallow up some guards if he gains like some some muscle, which he will in the first like you saw with like uh Yon, uh Barn J the first like couple months he looked like a completely different person, and that's gonna happen. That's gonna happen to um Isaiah there. So I I like I like the the pick there. I um you kind of take who comes to you in that situation in the second round. And um I think we've we've had some success with some guys like Tarren Shannon Jr. and like uh Yon, obviously, but we've also struck out a couple guys that uh um so that's just kind of how the draft goes, but uh it'll be interesting to see kind of how he if he kind of cracks different. I don't expect him to kind of make a big splash right away, but again, you never know.

SPEAKER_02 14:07

So yeah, especially especially with Chris Finch, not known for playing younger guys. Um but I do think like he comes from uh you know he played two years of college, so he's not a freshman. Um he comes from a a team that was good really good defensively. Duke was really good defensively, Shire is a good coach. Um, and I think they they run some pretty like sophisticated stuff, and not to say that the Wolves necessarily do a lot of sophisticated stuff, but like he knows how to play off the ball, which is what he's gonna do. Um, I'm thinking like second unit with Terrence Shannon, he's a great fit because he's he can spot up and shoot, and Shannon can get downhill. Um, and so I kind of like I like that part of it. Um, I saw somebody compare him to another Duke player, Brandon Ingram, which I thought he does play a lot like Brandon Ingram, just he's three inches shorter, two inches shorter, but he he kind of moves and strides like him.

SPEAKER_01 15:02

That's a great comparison. Like it actually, like now I'm like seeing them like that. That's perfect, that's perfect. Like his shooting is really exciting for me. I like like his quick releases, and he's so I mean he's so tall and he elevates so much that like when he does he might. I mean Lamello, they this the hornets like spam this like ghost screen action that they would run. Like if you ever if you just type in like Lamello ball highlights from last year, if you're excited and want to watch it, half of the highlights are like uh Con Kanipple or like Trey Man or any of those guys just coming up and like setting like a little like ghost screen and pop out. And if you have a guy like that coming in the game, like he's gonna get it some looks, and they might run that start running that with an ant, like who knows what what will happen. But I do like I do like his shooting. His shooting is his biggest upside there, and we need we can always use more shooting.

SPEAKER_02 15:51

Yeah, yeah, that's I mean, definitely something with Dante being out. Um so that's the other thing. Like, I you know, I don't know what the plan is with him long term. You know, it doesn't sound like he's gonna play at least until April of next year, so that's kind of a bummer. Um's his last on his contract. So um, but I do want to go back. Uh I kind of skipped ahead. Um, Io gets re signed. Um which I th I was asked well. Like what's yes, exactly. So they move Randall and then they resign Io. Um I from what I've seen, like people are kind of projecting them going with like this Lamello uh Aunt Io three guard kind of lineup. Um which I guess could work depending on what else they get. But um just overall, were you excited to get Io back? I feel like 19 million dollars a year is a is is a pretty good deal for that guy. I mean, uh for especially if he was a starter, like that's that's pretty cheap for starter money.

SPEAKER_01 16:55

Yeah, I I'm very excited about I I loved Io from last year. Like I I think he's kind of a again a perfect even if we didn't get ball, I would still be excited with him alongside um Ant. Uh obviously the postseason didn't end it. He he seem he was dealing with some injuries, and so like I I'm not gonna like get like dog him too much at the end of the year, but like it he kind of fits that mold of what we kind of are going for. Like a guy that can catch and just get downhill, guy catching tactos gaps, and um I like his defense too. Like he's another guy you can kind of throw in. Um, because Jaden, like like they're gonna have Jaden guarding primary ball handlers. Um, Io is a guy that could they could just throw into the mix and be that second guy that's gonna guard um, especially if Dante's out. Uh-huh. Yeah, I I especially looks a lot better now because you can you can play, like you said, the three guards uh with ball, ant, and him, and then have Jaden at the four, and then ball doesn't have to guard ball and ant don't have to guard that primary guy, or Jayden doesn't either. He could be more of like that rim protector uh guy that he likes to be sometimes, and that that's a suffocating that could be a suffocating team. Um, because you then you don't give up a ton of the on the offensive end either, and you're that team's fast. Like, I that's why I kind of like Jaden. I'm not I'm kind of team, I know I didn't say this at the beginning, but like uh if we don't go out and get like a power forward in that like a traditional sense of like we need a guy that's been playing that that forward spot, and we just kind of slide Jaden into that like power forward spot um and just run the crap out of teams. I I don't mind that honestly, because it I like the spacing on the offensive end, I like the transition aspect of it. And I think Jaden's pretty physical enough and good enough for like a rim protector to defend down low as kind of like that power forward um kind of guy. So uh I I guess I kind of answered a bunch of things. But yeah, there's a lot to talk about. But but but I'll I'll kind of gives you that flexibility, is kind of what I'm trying to say. Here is yeah, um, yeah, he's a he's he's gonna be good for us. And I I don't mind them, I never mind the money that um that like it always is shell-shocking to see the money, but but then you look a couple years down the line and you're like, man, we actually have a pretty good deal. Cause um those guys are kind of gonna get get their money that seems a little bit more expensive than uh than than what they have gotten in the past couple years, but then it always ends up being kind of pretty good value.

SPEAKER_02 19:34

Yeah. Um so you talked about the the playoffs a little bit with this group, and yeah, Ant or I was hurt, Ant was obviously like 50-60 percent, and no Dante. So this like this goes back to a larger thought I had going into the offseason of like I didn't think we needed to do much. I think if fully healthy, we are pushing the Spurs in seven, maybe winning that series. Yeah, potentially, you know, whatever, you never know. But so I was like, you know, it just we it was unlucky. We just kind of like the Thunder, you know, they weren't healthy either, and and it that's just the way it goes sometimes. So I was kind of anti like getting rid of the Nas, Jaden, Ant, Io. Like I wanted to keep that group together, yeah. Um and part of it is with Io, he was one of the few guys that pushed the pace. You could see it immediately that Rudy would outlet to him and the ball would get going. And I know Ant doesn't love to play that way, um but I think he would, and I think he's gonna have to now, especially with the group we got. But the guy that does like to play more like that is Jaden, you know, and so um I think you're right about Jaden on defense too, because you know you look at the Spurs, right? Who was there for? Champagny? Yeah, right? And the Knicks, who's the Knicks for? OG? Yeah. Um more physical.

SPEAKER_03 20:55

What's that?

SPEAKER_02 20:55

Even Hart sometimes was in the mix there, right? Yeah, so that's what I'm so you what to your point, like it's kind of a different game right now. Um, it it does kind of make me nervous because it feels like that was our strength the last couple years was our size and physicality, and then you lose that. Um, but um, you know, Jaden, I think, given more, even with you know, maybe Io takes the point of attack more, and then Jaden's that, you know, roamer and he's turning more shots or something. But um so yeah, I like the IO signing. I'm I'm on board, I'm I'm excited for him to be on this team. Um, I think he's super versatile. He's kind of the the Dante kind of guy, you know, got does a little bit of everything, plays good defense, plays hard all the time, which is just with this group, I feel like you need, you know, because uh ant struggles with that sometimes. But um so now that brings us to the LaMelo Nas trade. And I'm starting to talk myself into getting excited about. It I've kind of been an anti-Lamello guy. Part of it's the flamboyance of dad and and him, and is you know, just their overall vibe. Um, but you know, even in the draft, I remember just kind of hating that everybody was like LaMelo, Lamello, Lamello, even though Ant went one, Lamello got rookie of the year. And I'm thinking, are you serious? Like Ant is better than this guy. Um, and now I'm kind of we talked about this. I'm thinking about the lobs to Rudy. I'm thinking about getting Jaden on a cut along the baseline. I'm thinking of, you know, breaking the paint, pitching to a uh ant with a feet set three instead of having to work for 20 seconds to get one off. Like it's just there could be a lot of beautiful basketball being played with this group. Um, as much as I hate to see Nas go.

SPEAKER_01 22:52

Yeah, it and we I mean we talked about Nas's importance at the beginning and like uh how much everyone's gonna miss it. It's a tough pill to swallow. It is, truly is. Uh but like you see you see what LaMelo could do. This might be the best team that he's been on since he was in high school with his brothers, where that that Chino Hills team where it was just him and his brothers. And if you go back and like watch some of that stuff, and uh I like that's what level of like offense we're gonna be seeing was like him and ant side by side. Like one and two, it's like not it necessarily needs to be like a your turn, my turn kind of thing. Like you see, sometimes that happens, and it's like, ugh, this is becoming like I'm forcing my stuff. I think I think Lamello is pretty like I think he's an underratedly basketball smart guy. Um, I just think that he's had to do well like everything for Charlotte for the years that he's been there, and um hasn't had a lot of like strong coaching, I would say, until last year. And there was moments where he kind of almost like fell out of like rotational spots because he was kind of like had to be like kind of like hey, we're gonna bring you in here. You have to you're not kind of running the stuff that we want to go to uh go to. And he I feel like he responded well to that. Um I would say like really randomly. Um, like I again I'm not a I'm not a huge like mellow ball stan. Like I'm not like he's incredible, like has been the best like underrated person, but like or underneath underrated player, I should say. Um, but I do like respect his like skill and his like craftiness and stuff. I I kind of before we went on, I kinda called him like uh Mike Conley on steroids. Like if you go back and watch Memphis Mike Conley, like his passing ability score and ability at all three levels, they'd be like that. But if you added like a bunch of interest to him and like all the flair and stuff, like it's crazy to say, but like this is like what you're gonna be seeing with uh with with Ball. Now character-wise, I know that's like kind of a big part of him in general. Like people just don't like his like how he presents himself. I give I give people watching this go to Facebook. I don't even know if it's still on there. They have uh their TV show that they had called Ball and the Family, I believe it is. Um it sounds ridiculous, but this is like back when he was like in high school. No, do you want to I remember I vaguely remember this? You do? Okay, okay. Kind of a ridiculous show, but like you you watch that and you kind of leave going, they're not that bad. Like they're kind of they like he's just like he's a kind of like dad's a crazy person. Like you don't really hear about him a lot now, but like he does everything for his family, they're big family people. Like uh it's it's kind of funny. Like you see more of a personal, like more of a personable presence in there, and like you see the man, this kid kind of has like a heart of gold uh deep down, and he seems like a guy that like people like don't talk bad about in the locker room. He's not talking bad about teammates, he's just playing basketball, and that's what he loves to do. It's kind of like it will fit in. I think he will fit in well um uh with that. Like for what we had to to give up, like a heart and soul, like Lamello. All he needs to do, all you need to do, Lamello, you're watching this, all you need to do is play hard like Nasreed would do every night, and they'll have Lamello towels for you. Um the fans gonna the fans all you want, all they want is someone who is not gonna be moody. I don't I don't can I don't see him as a moody guy, he's just a guy that shows up and plays ball. And then ironically, it just just play hard. Just play hard and like just be a good person. That's all that's all that's all we need is so counterpoint.

SPEAKER_02 26:46

My my question then becomes why would Charlotte move him? That that's my that's like my number one concern. I have other concerns, but that's my number one. You just had the best season in your franchise for what 10 years, 15 years? Um your cornerstone player who apparently you know made it all go, he was the engine, and you move him for a sixth man for a role play, you know, Nas is not he'll probably start, I guess, but like has never started in his career. So something's up there. That something about that to me says Charlotte didn't love him enough and didn't think they had enough of a future. Um which worries me because what what have we said about the Wolves for the last couple years? They're they're not mature, they're not a professional basketball team, they don't know how to you know compete when it matters, they don't know how to finish a game or finish a seat play a whole season, they dink around, they that that we've said that for years. I don't think this uh helps solve that problem, in my opinion, and and maybe I could be wrong, but um that th those are the two things that I look at this and I'm like this doesn't make sense to me, but everything else you said 100% agree with. Like, I think it's gonna be the probably the best back court in the NBA, just talent-wise, you have two all-stars uh in your backcourt. You have they're both 24 years old, it's crazy. Um, but man, when you're going up against the pressure from the Thunder and the Spurs, is this gonna be the guy that can, you know, handle that pressure and get the ball across and make the decisions and you know that that kind of stuff? Like I I get it, he was probably the best option, but like th those are just concerns I have because I'm it just it makes me confuse why Charlotte would move him.

SPEAKER_01 28:45

So counterpoint to the counterpoint.

unknown 28:47

I like it.

SPEAKER_01 28:49

So let's let's use this, let's use the same anal same thought process of like why would they get rid of them? Let's use it for when we got rid of cat. So you go, okay, salary situation, yes. And also like like you're looking at their team, it's like, well, maybe he doesn't fit well in what we're trying to do. Like Charles, Charles Lee's a very like, like with team, like watching him with like coaching team Canada, very like structured guy, like he wants everything to be like uh kind of like almost like an OKC type of um like vibe where you're like everything's kind of run through like a certain system. And if you have like a Lamella ball who's a his best like trait is like playmaking and free, like not I hate to say freelancing, but it kind of is like that, where you're like you have your first read, and if it's not there, like I'm gonna make something happen. And like end of the shot clock, I'm making something happen. Or I might not just run, I might not run it exactly how you want it to go, and it might be frustrating, but like half the time I'm gonna make a great play, but it's just not like what it's not what we need as our team. So with that being said, like is this like their kind of like cat trade wolves version of that? You know what I mean? Like where we they want to kind of build what they're building, and he doesn't really fit into he's been there forever, but we're we need to move on from him. He just needs to change the scenery. And with that being said, what did cat what happened with cat when he moved to more of struct like more of a different like we have Finch who like is more I hate that like he's he's a really good player's he's a great players coach, but also is pretty demanding, I think, at the same time. And um, and it's obviously had a the great success there. So like Lamello's not coming in and being like I'm the dude, he's coming in and being like, This is my opportunity to win and yeah uh be be part of this. And so this could this could be like a an experience for him where he comes in and goes, I'm gonna do everything possible to help to help win. And I might I might have to take a backseat and not be the the dude. Like Kat, it was kind of a struggle of having maybe to give that up. I know he he was all for it and he said he was all for it, but like deep down, like he was there forever. And so like it you you kind of sometimes have to move on from this kind of things, change the scenery, and it might be better for both for both franchises. Um, so that's my kind of like counterpoint to counterpoint to that. But again, like you look at it, like why would they give him up? Then must be some red flags that that we're not seeing. And and I think all the the things you brought up were like he kind of uh how he plays is very disruptive to like a like a team basketball game.

SPEAKER_02 31:31

Um style of play thing you brought up though makes a ton of sense because I think Finch typically is kind of like let's just let the guys play and like figure it out. And so that's kind of been a knock on him, right? Is like there's not enough structure of getting the shot they want like every time because he kind of just lets them figure it out. Um, and that could fit it. That's kind of what I was saying earlier about like him throwing lobs, him hitting back cutters, like guys moving, like Io moves great without the ball. Like LaMelo is great for that kind of a system, I think. And so um the other the only other concern I have, because I do I am I am excited, like I think this is gonna be a fun team to watch. My only other concern is he his health, and yeah, no, that can be kind of a finicky, like you know how much of that was them saying, Hey, don't play, we want to kind of tank the rest of the season. We know we're not good. Um, but his rookie year was COVID year, they played 51 total games, he played 31. Next year he played all 75. The next year, or no, you he played 75. Next year he played 36, 22, 47. If we're only getting 40, 45 games, this is gonna be a you know, you're kind of back into the same struggle uh because now we don't have as much depth as we've had probably the last couple years, unless we get another move. Um, but uh you know, when healthy, when playing, not the most efficient scorer, but um, you know, he's got some he's got some uh potential. He he puts up the points, but like I'm looking at field goal percentage, you know, true shooting percentage isn't great. Um three-point percentage is okay, 36, 37. So it's it's enough at least that you have to respect it, right? So when and when you move off, like I'm thinking of those games where Ank gets doubled and you're throwing it to Lamello now, and now you're making plays, you're not, you're not just you know confused.

SPEAKER_01 33:25

So it'll be he's like a very he's a very good, like I think he's a great shooter, but when he has to like a lot of his shots that he's like shooting why his field goal percentages probably like looks bad, is he's chucking up a lot of shots to try to just be he's gotta be the dude for so many years there's Charlotte and the shot clock stuff, yeah, for sure. Yeah, and he he like you watch his highlights and you're like, Man, there's no way this goes in all the time. It definitely doesn't, if you're been watching him as a Charlotte fan. Um, but like I know every time that we play him in the past, I was always so terrified of him because he's so efficient in like the pick and roll that like I can't I'm I can't imagine seeing him next year on the Wolves like not be super efficient with having a guy next to him like Ant, where he does Lamello doesn't have to burden on the whole load, Ant doesn't have to burden the whole load, and those one that one two punches just I I can I can just picture right now. May I'm I'm just maybe too optimistic about that, but um yeah, I don't know.

SPEAKER_02 34:33

It it's I think the other thing too is Rudy is one of the best screeners in basketball. Incredible. Number one, number one. So you get LaMello off of him, uh, and then the next time down it's Ant, and you gotta like try to navigate that between you know if you're if you're guarding Rudy, you got one instance you're guarding Lamello out on, you know, you know, whatever however cut you're covering the the ball screen, but like that that's gonna be tough to deal with for anybody.

SPEAKER_01 35:00

So yeah, a hundred percent. Uh see what the health sorry, the the health thing, I didn't I didn't realize I didn't answer that part. I I think a lot like you said, a lot of it might have been just like eh man, we're not trying to be I'm not trying to push you, we're gonna rest some of those things that are that then have been bothering you. Um but uh I I don't I like again coming over to the wolves, underrated part of the Timberwolves organization is our training staff. And again, I don't know any of the names of the people involved in that, but like how many times do we have guys who are like out for on besides this last playoff round? It's bad time to talk about injuries, I guess, but but like we we we rarely have guys who are like man, this guy can never get healthy, he's always out. It's always it always seems to be that uh there might be some injuries that happen throughout the what throughout the season that um they don't last as long as like a lot of teams you hear like man if they could just stay healthy, so it'll be interesting to see.

SPEAKER_02 36:02

Yeah, I think that's partly their their culture too. Like Ant doesn't want to sit out. Yeah, I mean he played on one leg in the playoffs. Um side note on that, like I you know, people are kind of oh wolves lost, they need to do some changes. I'm I'm watching these highlights of Anthony Edwards from like two years ago, three years ago, and he's hammering dunks on everybody. And I'm like, that dude was 50. Yeah, like you can't he he never went to the hole like that. And the year before, the year before that, he was just punishing that dunk on Jackson Hayes in the playoffs two years ago against the Lakers. He had one against the Mavericks in the conference finals a couple years ago. That was insane. Like he did that regularly and never even tried in the playoffs, and that's how you know he was nowhere near 100%. Nowhere. So anyway, um, last thing I want to talk about any more moves. Like, what do you think they need yet? Because they got let's essentially Io, Lamelo, Jaden, Ant, and Rudy starting. Assumption is Yoan, they feel good enough about Yoan that he's gonna be the backup center. He's gonna probably play 15 minutes a night at least, um, which not to go down this path, but I still feel like we have an issue playing the funder and um some of the teams in the West. If Rudy's the only center you have, a you know, viable center that's gonna play big minutes. Um, but Shannon Jr., uh, I feel like I'm missing somebody. Is there somebody else on the roster that's signed? We got I mean, we got Josh Green as of now. Josh Green, yeah, who's a defender, you know, kind of a 3nd guy.

SPEAKER_01 37:42

Um uh and then TJ Shannon, Bowens Highland's a free agent, I believe.

SPEAKER_02 37:48

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 37:48

No, you you listed everybody, but I mean Isaiah Evans, um, and then Julian Isaiah Evans.

SPEAKER_02 37:53

So essentially, you know, he might be Julian Phillips, Isaiah Evans might be, but it's Shannon Barranjay at this point. Yeah. Um, so thinking of that as the roster right now, what what would you say? Like, we gotta get a backup here. This is kind of the last piece or two that would probably fill up the roster.

SPEAKER_01 38:12

Um, well, first and foremost, we need to do whatever it takes to get Mike Conley back in the building, um, just for a lot of reasons. But uh, I just think in all in all seriousness, I think like you said mentioned, we have we have we went from having like a pretty old roster to now a very like young roster, and I think no better person to pair up with a Lamello ball than a Mike Conley to just kind of like teach him teach him a little bit more of like what we're looking for and certain things and kind of get him up the speed because like coming in as a point guard, you're kind of having to like run the show, and the best part about Mike Conley's game is he can kind of just run the show and not have to uh get a call from the coach every single time down the court. He can put guys in the right spot, and so I think like having him is kind of like a brains of the operation, kind of like in that Joe Ingalls type of role from last year. Um, I think you could see that happening.

SPEAKER_02 39:08

Good in the playoffs, too, man. I gotta say, like he's such an athlete, like like he could still play. So if you needed five to ten minutes on a night, Mike would be great.

SPEAKER_01 39:18

Yeah, yeah. I and that's not like a lot of a lot of people are worried about that because, like, wow, like Finch can't help himself, he'll just put throw him in the game. I think it's a whole different situation now. But um, you still have like uh according to uh Tim Garrison, he's a great follow on Twitter for um like cap stuff, because I'm horrible at this. Again, not the best person to have for offseason pod, but I do love talking about the X's and O stuff, and that's what that's that's and Wolves basketball in general. But uh he mentions that there's like a six million dollar like uh taxpayer exemption. So you're now in like that first apron, second apron zone, you can you get these like little bonuses, like little perks, I guess you can call them, where you can like chip like cash those in and get get something out of it. And so six million um to to get a free agent. So we have 11 roster spots. Um so if you're looking like six million, um, I'm looking kind of at like some unrestricted free agents. So you have like uh Yabaselli, uh who was just on Chicago, he was on Philly for a bit there. The French, like he that French connection with Rudy. He's a power forward. Um he's under that six million as are expected there. Um some other guys would be like if we're looking power forwards, uh there's not a lot of options under that uh type of um precious Natchua. Oh he might be a little bit uh more expensive. Yeah, a little bit more expensive, a little bit more, but oh yeah, he's a little oh wait, oh he's a little bit he could be he could be an option there, but otherwise, like you can you're signing a bunch of the guys on like those vet minimums, and so there's still a lot of options out there. Like, gosh, you have like a Gary Payton there for like three million. He's kind of an interesting guy that you throw in the mix. I'm just looking for depth at this point. Like, I I'm a I'm a believer that Jaden McDaniels can play that four, and I kind of want like Jaden to be more in that spot where we're where we need him to be on the court quite a bit. Um that's just my opinion, I guess. But um if you're looking if you're looking I would say depth, probably more in like some bigs, because we have a lot of guards right now. Um and not a lot of not a lot of bigs. Yeah, I mean, ooh, like a Marvin Bagley the third. Does he still have juice in the I'm just looking through the list right here and uh yeah, I mean I I just can't imagine if they're not gonna make a trade, you're you're just picking up guys, like you're re-signing maybe Bones, you're you're re-signing Conley, which sounds like it's gonna happen. Um, and so if they're re-signing those two guys for sure, then you you're probably looking at some like backcourt help, or uh sorry, not backcourt help, some front court help, but like some size.

SPEAKER_02 42:18

Which is kind of what I mean. I feel like they've kind of needed even when they had Naz, I thought like that was what they needed, probably. So nothing really changes with that. So they'll probably pick up, yeah, like you said, a couple guys sub ten million dollars a year or whatever, and call it a day. And um I guess you know how do you how does that make you feel? You ready for Wolves basketball already?

SPEAKER_01 42:41

It's it's not even July yet. I am very, I'm very much ready. I was ready, like like we were talking about before. I was ready with just if it was no lamella ball, like I was like, man, I'm excited to see kind of how this works. Like no matter what, I think uh Dane Moore and Kyle Tige talked about this on their their pod. Like this is that that this is kind of like a new era. We've entered this new era, we've we've had a couple iterations of like some contending type of teams learning to grow. Ants 24 years old, um, and the core group that we had with with Nas and Jaden and those guys, like obviously that split up a little bit, but Ant's still 24, and so like you're seeing this roster go from like this kind of like a bunch of veterans and like Ant and Jaden and Nas. Now you're like this is a new, this is like we we've learned all we've needed to learn from like these veterans. Now it's like we're gonna open up this window here, and we're really gonna make a run for it. Um, and so I don't know, it's gonna be kind of it's gonna be a fun experience to see. I'm excited for some of these young young guys to kind of get like more opportunities because it's gonna happen because based on how how the roster is kind of laid out right now, unless a trade happens, um like Terran Shan's. Jr. He's gonna get get some run. And so I'm excited to see something new. And I think this is like we've tried a bunch of different different different things with Ant. Um and I think we all could agree he just needed a second fiddle. And this is we finally have that second fiddle, the guy that can space it out. This is the most space that the the ant era Timberwolves have ever had. I know Rudy's there, and you hear that, but he still can like with this picking ability, it's still gonna space out the floor big time. And so I don't know. I'm super excited, and um, I think I think it's gonna be a a fun experience. And the first mellow uh ant one two combo, they're scoring like 10 points straight, and there's a timeout call, the place target center is gonna go crazy because those it no matter what, even if we're not as good and we don't win it all, it's gonna be fun to watch, that's for sure.

SPEAKER_02 44:53

Yeah. Yep, it's gonna be entertaining. I don't think there's a a world where this team isn't top six in the West again. Like, I just I feel like as long as they have Aunt, Jaden, and Rudy, they're kind of in that pecking order, and then we'll see. Like, if Lomelo is healthy and playing well and like distributing and it works, they they're they're gonna be up in that group. Like, I I do think part of this is we didn't have enough ball handling against the Spurs, we didn't have enough athleticism, we didn't have enough youth. Um, part of it was injuries, but like even if Dante's older, you know, uh Julius was older and didn't play well, like it's just like, hey, we're gonna kind of see what we got with this younger, faster group. Um, and yeah, nobody out west really has that power forward guy that you have to really worry about him posting up anyway. So this lineup could work, it's gonna be fun. Um, one other thing we didn't talk about, but congrats to Mike Anori on a uh oh yeah, I feel like this is a death sentence in Portland. A one-year contract. Like, what are we doing? Um, I feel bad for him that he has to go to that owner, but uh shouts to him for getting uh head coaching gig because it's it's well deserved.

SPEAKER_01 46:09

Yeah, I I'm super happy for him. He's always like, I think he's kind of a very obviously clearly his name's been in the hat for a while, yeah of like potential hires, um, and then he just never had the right situation it sounded like that he wanted to to go and like Finch said in his like press conference thing that he had like there's only so many opportunities you have for this, and so um it's good to see him get get his flowers and get uh get an opportunity there. And I think I think again, I wish he would have just gone to like not Portland, because it's like and not for like the uh whatever this contract situation, I uh whatever it is what it is, but like having to face him because he's gonna know like all the like he did that with Jokic, he's gonna know all Ant's like things. It's they're gonna be a pest this next year, like at least this next year, if not further, because Micah's gonna be like, hey, this is how you stop, that's how you slow down Ant. Um just like he did with Jokic.

SPEAKER_02 47:04

Uh little up-and-coming team like uh made the playoffs this year. Like, yeah, that was cool, man. So um I'll be thinking about you when I'm out in summer league here in a couple weeks. I'll tell you that. Uh I'll I'll I'll give you the load on Isaiah Evans, see how he looks. I'm excited to see him and Johan and Rocco out on the court. Like, I think that'll be a blast.

SPEAKER_01 47:23

So this might this might be one of the best. Uh if you threw Terrence Chan Jr. there in the mix, this might be one of the best summer league teams of all time. He looked so good last year.

SPEAKER_02 47:31

I was just ready for him to pop off, and then it didn't come until the playoffs, but it was it was cool. Um, this draft class alone is gonna be worth it to go go watch him out there.

SPEAKER_01 47:41

So you're gonna yeah, I mean, I'm gonna live vicariously through uh your different posts that you have all over all over the place. And I hope I can't wait to see you're gonna be sitting like right next to Chris Finch, I'm guessing. And uh I'm sure a couple roads away. Oh man.

SPEAKER_02 47:57

So last year, quick story. So last year the wolves are playing and they're in the small gym there on at UNLV called the Pavilion, Cox Pavilion, and Ant and Nas come in. And I I said I texted a buddy, I'm like, if Ant and Lamello come in together this year, man, the place is gonna feel electric. I can't wait. Oh my gosh.

SPEAKER_01 48:17

Yeah. We have we we have a we have a pretty cool team.

SPEAKER_02 48:22

I love it. Yeah, uh, we'll see how Lamello does on black ice this winter because um Steph Marberry bolted because of black ice, and Lamello's not known for his driving uh safety and you know his they better just get him like a loft uptown or downtown and just yeah, somebody somebody needs to drive him home. I saw somebody say something like I'd quit my job if you would pay me to drive him around. Yeah, 100%. So uh all right, man. Well, this is super fun. Thanks again for joining me. Uh Derek, uh known as Crunch with two O's on social and Sideline Vibes podcast, probably picking that up a little bit more in the fall.

SPEAKER_01 49:03

Yeah, and I'm I'm doing um some Lynx stuff. Uh okay. I know you you you you're talking a little bit of links in this episode here, and I just love Olivia Miles and what they're doing. If you don't watch Lynx basketball, you better start watching because that that is some fun, fun hoops over there. And I do I do I did start a little bit um now because I'm on like kind of like a paternity leave, I guess, uh all hands on deck here in our household with the twins. I I I'm kind of dabbling into uh some like writing going backwards. I started usually like you start writing, then you go to podcasts. I'm going backwards. I did my podcast and now I'm taking a break from the podcast and going doing writing. Um and so I started doing like a couple like uh articles. Um uh I got one, I got a substack, uh Derek Long, aka Crunch. You can follow it there. I have I do like my quarterly uh reports over there. So I did my first quarter links report um there. It's all it's kind of a long dorky read, but if you're a basketball um lover, you might you might enjoy enjoy that a little bit. Um other than that, that's that's kind of what I'm going with right now until this the fall and winter.

SPEAKER_02 50:11

Um you know nobody can, you know, you be a father first, you got the twins, you're busy, man. Uh you got your high school team, you're doing summer workouts, man. It's it's all good. So kudos. I'm I'm actually in the same boat, like doing a little writing too. So go for basketball.

SPEAKER_03 50:28

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 50:29

So um, hey, you know, it's just media conglomerates. We gotta we gotta own all the mediums here.

SPEAKER_01 50:35

Yeah, yeah. Gotta gotta otherwise we're just annoying our wives about all the things. Like, this is the avenue. Otherwise, I'm just like, hey, Bailey, like, what do you do you think the timber? Yeah, she's like, you need to just write your thoughts or go do a podcast or something. Sounds good.

SPEAKER_02 50:54

That's great, man. All right. Well, thanks a lot again for joining me. Uh enjoy the rest of your summer. And uh, yeah, we'll talk more in the fall probably as we get ready for the Timberwolves season, man. Thanks again. Yeah, thanks for having me. Another team in town has been reaping the benefits of their recent draft pick, and that is the Minnesota Lynx off to a hot start, sitting atop the WNBA standings. And a lot of the credit there goes to the play of number two pick in the draft, Olivia Miles. Here to talk about her, the Lynx, Cheryl Reeve, much more is the Star Tribune's Cassidy Hadesheimer. Cassidy, thanks a lot for joining me.

SPEAKER_00 51:34

Yeah, of course. Thanks for having me on.

SPEAKER_02 51:37

Yeah, how you been? How's the how's the season going?

SPEAKER_00 51:40

It's good. It's kind of wild to think that, you know, we're already, gosh, 17 games in. So that puts uh somewhere between uh, you know, a little a little over a third of the way uh through, which is uh pretty absurd to think. You know, all-star voting is like about to, you know, wrap up, which just you know, I it feels like it just started, so it's it's really flying by.

SPEAKER_02 52:02

Yeah, and uh a couple like a week or so ago, the W announced that they're going to 50 games next season. So like just continuing to grow and expand and more TV money and more player, you know, higher salaries. And it's just it's like it's really exciting to see uh the the W just continue to expand and grow.

SPEAKER_00 52:23

For sure. It's it's uh it's been a fun ride to cover uh you know this season and then when I was able to kind of get uh get over there a little bit the past couple years as well.

SPEAKER_02 52:34

Yeah, good timing for you. Uh for those that don't remember, Cassidy joined. We talked about high school girls basketball. She was covering preps, prep sports for the Star Tribune a few months ago and now moved into the professional ranks. So uh exciting, exciting change for you. Um I want to start with the links, kind of just about the overall season, because I don't think expectations were super high for the team, especially with Collier being out and some shuffling with the starting lineup and players kind of coming and going. But um, you know, what what has been your observation on the team, both from like how they felt going in and that maybe internally they felt they were ready to compete. Um, but but from the outside looking in, it did not really seem like a team that was gonna be a top four team in the W this year.

SPEAKER_00 53:21

Yeah, I think going in, even um, you know, head coach Cher Reeves acknowledged that this new era of the WMBA um and sort of the composition of the salary cap with Supermax and Max contracts um was gonna make it tougher to sort of have the depth that the team, you know, had kind of relied on the past couple of years, obviously, um, you know, with a star player like Matheus Collier as well, but um just sort of the their ability to run, you know, seven, eight players deep and then to see some of those players go and then uh, you know, sign you know, massive contracts in other places, get starting roles. Um, you know, part of that, you know, of course, as well, credit to what they were able to do there here in Minnesota. Um, you know, that kind of gets gets them those looks as you know, sixth player of the year votes and that all that good stuff. Um but I think even Cheryl acknowledged sort of uh ahead of the season that there are more questions than answers. Um whether it was how the starting lineup was gonna gel, when Fee and um Dorca Uhas would return eventually um from injury and kind of what that would look like until then. Um but you know, I think that you know, she's even said that she's been you know impressed uh by how quickly the starting five have gelled together. Um you know, I think the depth has been something that's been a little more touch and go and um something that will dramatically improve once they are at full strength. Um when whatever that may be. Um and then I think the other X factor, just how you know, early this season has been how fast Olivia Miles has acclimated um to the WNBA, you know, on draft night uh media were at uh you know the the facilities and get to talk uh with Cheryl afterwards and you know, kind of you know, her talking about how important the point guard position is and how important it is to have a generational talent um running point. Uh, you know, and and that's important to dynasties. We saw, you know, Lindsay Whalen here and um you know, kind of knowing that that picking a player like that would set them up well for the future. But the fact that she's been able to come in and pretty quickly pick up and you know, find ways to impact games, obviously the past couple games. You always seem like she still has uh you know rookie moments or spells, but like you know, so do bets to, you know, uh make uh make you know errors and and stuff down the stretch of games. But um overall, I mean, just when you look at the way that she's been able to impact games, um, that's not really like a wait and see impact. It's you know, it's been pretty immediate, which has gotten them off to to the good start that they've they've gotten off to.

SPEAKER_02 56:07

Yeah, and like I think too, a credit to Cheryl and and just the team at Courtney Williams, too, like being able to play alongside that and like kind of give up maybe your primary ball handling role, fill a different role, and and she's just kind of flowed into it too, and and playing off Olivia, like it just seems like there's been this instant chemistry with with the group, um, which is what's led them to be 13 and 4 so far.

SPEAKER_00 56:33

Yeah, the the word that uh Courtney kept using kind of towards the start of the season and in training camp and um around draft night was she was overly excited, um overly excited, you know, to get to play alongside Miles and get to go back to kind of her natural scoring role. And I think that in their best games um this season so far, like you know, the the team has seen the ability to to tap into um you know, her still on the pick and you know, on the pick and roll and on, you know, being able to create um she still has all those like skill sets, but just kind of playing in a way that that um is allowing her to really be aggressive like offensively. And she yeah, she's found um a really good flow and putting up some um you know some some numbers that that really stack up kind of career-wise for her.

SPEAKER_02 57:24

Yeah. Um so so Williams and McBride are the two returning starters from last year. Um Coffey and Howard kind of stepping into the starting roles right now, but they've had moments where they've you know been phenomenal. Um if people don't know, Nia Coffee from from Hopkins, I believe it's Hopkins, uh sister of Amir Coffey, who's in the NBA, so um uh local angle there. But like um talk about you know those two and how they've filled a role because they're they're not overly large. I mean, they're the largest starters they have, the biggest players they have in the starting five, but they're they're elite defensively as a team, and I'm guessing a lot of it has to do with those two.

SPEAKER_00 58:07

Right, yeah, no. They've um I think that yeah, obviously they've held it down. Nia's up there, I think sixth when I checked. Um this was before the game, Slate of Games they had last night, um, in terms of blocks per game. I think she's averaging like one and a half. Um and then Howard's going up, you know, playing against some some much larger post players, but you know, is really um you know, often has the footwork and the speed and the agility to, you know, kind of make it hard for them on both ends of the court. Um, you know, they're two players that are, you know, came in and and you know, are making like Nia's making, you know, a bit above uh that minimum. Um I believe it's like seven just shy of 720,000 for for two years, and um Howard's making about that much, but but for a one-year deal and so or for on a two-year deal, but about that much per season. Um and you know, they've just been able to, you know, make such impacts in Cheryl's system. Obviously, you know, Howard's a a a player that that she's familiar with um from back in uh the start of her career when she was here for two seasons and uh you know won a title in in 20 uh 17, um I believe. But you know, has really been able to, you know, go off and you know, show her um you know her ability to impact um and then kind of come here and then and really maximize that um in this uh lineup that they have.

SPEAKER_02 59:38

Yeah. I'm always fascinated with um defensive schemes and like how teams you see a lot of teams and like the Spurs are a great example of like huge paint presence, everything's contested at the rim and it forces teams to shoot a lot of outside shots. Uh you mentioned Coffee being one of the league leaders in blocks, but like what else I mean, uh the the outside the perimeter pressure has to be disruptive. Like what what are you seeing from them defensively that's made them so good um this so far through this this season?

SPEAKER_00 1:00:13

I mean the the stat that like Cheryl and the team love the most and like I I was like I've been here you know this is my first like season covering the team regularly before that, like kind of uh you know, here and there. And the stat they love is uh their ability to hold an opponent uh below 40% shooting and their all-time record in that. Um I don't believe they've managed the last game, and so they were, I believe before that, like 213, I believe, since uh since 2010 or 2011 when they're able to do that. So that's something they like really hang their hat on of like forcing low quality um you know shots. Uh you know, it's kind of been different, I feel like, depending on the matchup a little bit this year. Like there's been a couple teams, um, like Golden State, even like when Washington came in here and they lost uh this week um or like this weekend, this past weekend, um, you know, forcing them to take way more threes than they do. Washington's not a typically a good um three-point shooting team. I believe they came in averaging around 28%. Um and they ended up hitting some more uh than that. Uh but you know, just just trying to really uh make that um make things difficult, you know, for for opponents. And uh someone that I know um the team has given a lot of kudos to defensively, at least on the perimeter, has been Caleb McBride.

SPEAKER_02 1:01:42

Um, you know, having her chase around players like page backers like Ryan Howard, you know, just kind of taking on the a team's lead, you know, guard and just you know, forty almost forty minutes of uh tag with with them, but um what is the status of Collier and um and her like return? Are you getting any indication? Like do does the media I don't I'm sure they're the team and and Cheryl are pretty quiet about that, but is there a timeline that they said, you know, all-star break or what what is it?

SPEAKER_00 1:02:21

Yeah, obviously, like you said it that they uh you know will keep as much competitive advantage as they can by you know playing things uh close to the chess. But um the latest update was that, you know, I mean they have been with the beginning of the season, um, you know, the timeline for uh Collier was that she would return to basketball activities by early June. And she had returned to basketball on court activities by early June. She's you know, she was shooting around with the team at, you know, um to some extent like late May, you know, has been here through June, but obviously, you know, the ability to shoot the basketball is not you know, playing basketball, um and and you know, full five on five. Um and so the latest about both of them um was you know, prior to yeah, that last game against Washington. Um Cheryl said she felt that in a couple of weeks that she felt like trainers may come to her and say that they um are cleared for practices. Um but I you know that that's what we have, so so that's kind of what to go with. But it's kind of been um yeah, something that's kind of in a state of of uncertainty that uh, you know, big questions going into the season um that I think will be are one of those things that when you look at certain specific matchups or size um i is a factor, especially.

SPEAKER_02 1:03:52

Um if you're if you're gonna be playing the aces in the playoffs, you're gonna need door guide or you know, best probably and if yeah.

SPEAKER_00 1:04:04

I mean, and then you know, Cheryl made the point that you know the the timeline um you know from a return to practice is dependent on how players respond to certain things and certain steps of the progression of three and three and four and four and five on five and all those different things. Um so you know, knowing we're a month out from all-star break, you know, sort of my thought is like make it that, you know, well you will. I don't know if if if there's you know anything can say for certain, but um yeah, we we will see.

SPEAKER_02 1:04:37

Yeah. I mean, if you're saying two weeks and they're probably practicing more live two weeks of that, and then you're at the ulcer break and you probably come back and people feel good. Uh that you know, I feel like a lot of coaches like that kind of time frame because then you get you know, when you're playing games, you can't work your way in with the starting unit in as much, you know, you're just not practicing as much. So if you get some time off uh together, that seems like a natural fit.

SPEAKER_00 1:05:07

Um until they're all in in at all-star.

SPEAKER_02 1:05:10

Wow, yeah. How many of them what do you think it?

SPEAKER_00 1:05:13

I mean, Olivia Miles probably and I think Olivia Miles to me is it feels like a pretty safe lock. I think Natasha Howard is playing at an all-star caliber level. Um I think so. Basically the way that works in the WMBA is the so 50% fan vote, 25% media, and players pick the starters and then coaches pick um the remaining reserves.

SPEAKER_03 1:05:39

Okay.

SPEAKER_00 1:05:39

And so um, you know, I think that's then you get some power. Yeah. Or or not just not her necess like not saying her necess like yes, like I would be confident that yeah, maybe if if you know fan votes here or there, like, but that you know, she would get the nod um that way. Uh but then um, you know. You look at players like Courtney Williams, who we talked about, who's like having you know, she was an all-star last year and is having a season um that is you know just as impact obviously in a slightly different role, but just as impactful, you know, for the Lynx. Um so yeah, no, I'll be I'll be interested to see. And then if Cheryl, if if the Lynx have a top two record, and Cheryl gets to coach too. So there might be a whole Minnesota contingent again, like there was last year.

SPEAKER_02 1:06:24

Yeah, there you go. And generally, right, when you have a good record, your tops in the league, you're gonna get you know a you know more than one player uh on the team. So um speaking of Cheryl, I'm curious. You know, you said first year full-time covering the team, basically. Um, what is your impressions of her as you know, like a coach, just like motivator, um, executions, like what what stands out? She's obviously one of the greatest WNBA coaches of all time, professional basketball coaches in this country of all time. Um, four titles, a couple trips to the finals. Like she's her she's got a legacy. What is it that stands out as someone who's kind of new to covering her?

SPEAKER_00 1:07:06

Yeah. Um, yeah, I know. And then add to that Hall of Fame, uh US Day's basketball hall of fame induction this weekend, and probably setting the uh, you know, three three wins away, I think, from setting the all-time regular season record. She's already got the playoff regular season one. But anyway, yeah, point being, um I think that the thing, yeah, like you said though, like, you know, all that stuff, obviously, the winning caliber and and what teams were able to do on the court. Um, that's stuff that uh, you know, you can turn on the the TV and and see. I think the thing that probably has stood out to me the most like early in the season was this came up at a media availability um at some point early in the season. This was post-training camp, but you know, I think in the kind of the first couple weeks of the season. And, you know, I'm gonna be completely honest. I I'm trying to remember the exact question that had kind of spurred it. I don't know if it was um talking about uh you know how I she's really she's really praised uh McBride and Williams this year for sort of their ability to like be leaders and kind of be the um on the core. Obviously, you know, Fee is still there and around and isn't the you know third captain on that team, um, but kind of bridge a piece of continuity between the last two years and this year and and kind of just be a steadying force um on this team. And uh, you know, at some point she kind of got a little deeper into how much like people matter um sort of to her and to the organization of like uh you know, like a of how much like the ceiling raises when you have the right people and you have people that are really bought into a system um and that aren't going to play selfishly and and that you kind of have the right um the right personnel in the right roles. And so I think that that's um the thing that has stood out to me the most, but both like on the court when you look at players like Nia and like Natasha Howard, where uh you know, you're maybe not you know, we we know a couple of the players that they swung for in free agency, and maybe uh, you know, I Cheryl gave a shout out when they were in the uh in LA um to uh the balloon situation. Uh, you know, we're we're kind of trying to get some some players in free agency, but the ability to kind of like look at players and fit them into roles are gonna be really um effective for their team. And then okay, I'll uh get full circle here. Um, but I think that, you know, kind of more off the court, like that looks like the ability to retain players, you know, when Howard comes back, right? And like wants to come back here and finish her career here, when you look at the coaching staff and how many former players play here, or you know, even in covering um, you know, when Portland came and Sylvia Powell's assistant coach there, and when Toronto came and Mike uh uh Rogers now, yeah, Wright Rogers is uh their GM. Like it sounded like you know, Cheryl was having conversations at certain points about bringing them back, you know, and then the fit just worked elsewhere, the timing with different roles opening. But just kind of the ability to like keep people, keep those good people close um is something that, you know, feels like is uh is not a bad, you know, is extends beyond the world of basketball.

SPEAKER_03 1:10:33

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 1:10:34

Uh just sort of into organizational like foundation building.

SPEAKER_02 1:10:38

Right. It seems uh you mentioned the coaches. I was gonna bring that up because that's apparent. Uh that, you know, if you didn't like plan for her, or you know, it doesn't it just doesn't seem like there's a lot of people who are around her that are like, no, I can't deal with her, or you know, I I I just didn't enjoy my time there. Um so that's key, but it's also a great, and I don't know how prevalent this is in the WNBA, but that she's GM and coach. So, like you said, if she's good at evaluating people and knows what that is about, she can bring them in and then she gets to coach them, which isn't always a luxury for other teams and organizations where you're, you know, the GM might like somebody's talent, but the coach doesn't like the fit and things like that. And so obviously they try to work those out, but she's one of the same and she's doing it. She's done it at such unique. I I what I what stands out to me is early on it was the Maya Moore, Simone Augustus, you know, those teams just full of talent. In the last few years, it's like, okay, yeah, you got Collier, but there's a lot of just like kind of grinders, you know. Obviously, there's talent. Like McBride's a great shooter, and you mentioned Courtney Williams, but like they're kind of doing it in a different way than they did at the start of her run, which tells me that she can just put it together and just can figure out how people can play their best ability as a as a group.

SPEAKER_00 1:11:56

Yeah, I mean, I think um, yeah, no, I I I agree with that. And you kind of see even with like the departures this year, like did a story and kind of where the free agents um from last year's team ended up. And um, you know, I think besides um, you know, Atlanta Smith's had kind of a slower start in in Dallas, but um you know, you look at players specifically when I think about them of like Natisha Heideman and Bridget Carleton are brought into maybe younger teams or teams that are kind of you know figuring out their identity with like a lot of young players in Seattle or any team expansion. And both their coaches when they came here kind of talked about like how much what they were doing with the Lynx has been beneficial to like have them in the locker room and have them. Um, I think um you know, Portland's coach specifically was like when you have a player that's been coached, um, you know, like Ridget was coached here in in Minnesota, you can just have conversations at a higher level and sort of like that spreads throughout the team. So yeah, I think whether it's like here or beyond, um that that's like kind of proof of the in the pudding.

SPEAKER_02 1:13:09

Yeah, you mentioned Heideman, and it makes me nostalgic for the stud buds being on the same team, but you know, that's all right. Um well, uh this is a great insight. I appreciate you coming on. Uh hope you get to cover another uh finals in your first year. That'd be pretty exciting. Uh I I know you had a great article on Neo Coffee. Anything else you want to plug uh related to your coverage and your work?

SPEAKER_00 1:13:32

Um yeah, no, I mean, yeah, that one was was fun to put together just with all the local connections. It was like I can uh I can move from writing, you know, covering prefs to covering pros, but I'm still gonna write about Hopkins basketball.

SPEAKER_02 1:13:46

Whether it's page or a copy or anybody.

SPEAKER_00 1:13:53

They got some good some good players in college too.

SPEAKER_03 1:13:55

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 1:13:56

Um that could could be in the pros here uh in the next couple years. But uh no, so yeah, that one if if people haven't checked it out, um, you know, I think she's just been such a um impactful um player for them in this role that she's had early in the season. Um, but then other than that, you know, we've got um, you know, game coverage trying to, you know, write things that aren't just free hashing, you know, what you saw on screen as a viewer, but you know, giving some insight into what this means for the team or a specific player. Um so yeah, it's all over at starchributing.com slash sports and everything else that'll pop up here um in the next you know weeks, months.

SPEAKER_02 1:14:35

Yeah. Uh as a former Star Tribune employee, I will always be one of the first to shout out the strib and their coverage and the journalism that happens over there. So uh if you don't uh get a subscription digital or print, but uh a lot of digital subscriptions nowadays. So um I've always enjoyed reading the the strib and have uh a strong, thriving local uh journalism is is important. So shouts to the strip. Uh Kathy, thanks so much for coming on. Um enjoy the the season and uh maybe we'll catch up September, October, depending on how the links are looking. I'm guessing they'll be in the mix, so we might we might ask you to come back on if that's okay.

SPEAKER_00 1:15:18

Yeah, of course.

SPEAKER_02 1:15:20

All right. Well, thanks a lot. I appreciate you being here.

SPEAKER_00 1:15:22

Yeah, thanks for having me.

SPEAKER_02 1:15:26

That is the show for today. Uh, thank you to my guest, Derek Long and Cassidy Hedetheimer from the Star Tribune. Appreciate the contributions. Uh, a lot going on. It was a big show. More to come. I don't think the wolves are quite done with making moves. And the Lynx here have a couple weeks yet before the All-Star break, and they get Nefista Collier back and Dorca in the middle. So it should be an exciting couple weeks. As I said earlier in the pod, I'm heading out to Las Vegas here, about two weeks roughly uh for Summer League. So we'll be doing a special podcast out there. Uh, probably nothing around the 4th of July, but I do appreciate you all listening. I appreciate you sticking around for the uh rest of the episode. And uh, of course, if uh you get a chance, please share this with a friend. Follow on Apple, Spotify, Amazon, give us a follow on uh Instagram and Blue Sky. And also, we're now on TikTok. So feel free to follow if you are on TikTok as well. Um, again, thanks to everyone for being here. Thanks for listening. This has been the Splash City basketball podcast.

SPEAKER_03 1:16:27

Begging in, begging them, back again.

SPEAKER_01 1:16:29

Well, well.