19. Am I a "Karen"? Here's the Test.

Are you a Karen… or are you just assertive? 😅 This week on Wrong Way Forward, Katy Montgomery and Justin Joseph break down what “Karen” actually means (spoiler: it’s more than just asking for the manager) and whether blunt honesty is confidence… or weaponized entitlement.

We unpack the five “Karen” traits—neighborhood watch syndrome, escalation as a hobby, selective rule-following, intellectual inflexibility, and more—then apply them to a Dear Abby-style dilemma: two cold, soggy sandwiches, a 45-minute wait, and a friend who keeps calling you a Karen. So… is she a Karen, or just in the wrong zip code?

Plus:
 ✅ Katy tells a wild American Express story (grief + points = chaos)
✅ Justin admits he goes straight to the top (manager, immediately)
✅ The “Montgomery Grip” makes a comeback
✅ Viewer emails roast last week’s episode (Spanx, magnets, and mini-adventures included)
✅ Puppy Preston makes an appearance 🐶
✅ And we debate Kim Kardashian gifting each kid a dog (PETA is not amused)

If you’ve ever wondered “Was I being a Karen?”—this one’s for you.

📩 Got a topic or disastrously bad advice you want us to dissect? Email: wrongwayforwardpodcast@gmail.com or text us 720-251-4450
(include your contact info)
📅 New episodes every Thursday. Like, subscribe, and come back for more chaos.

#WrongWayForward #Podcast #Karen #ComedyPodcast #AdvicePodcast #Relationships #BadAdvice #Storytime #HotTakes #Entitlement #CustomerService

Transcript

Setting Up The Karen Debate

Speaker 0:00

She's Katy Montgomery. He's Justin Joseph. These best friends are serving subpoenas to bad advice weekly with Wrong Way Forward. Now, here's Katy and Justin.

Justin Joseph 0:11

Oh goodness. Hey everybody. Welcome to this week's episode of Wrong Way Forward. Katy and I were just talking because I she's a little shiny in her left eye. And I said, Have you been crying? And she said, Well, here's what happened. And I'm like, actually, I don't want to know. She's like, I want to crying, you asshole. Anyway, um, this week's episode, we're talking about Am I a Karen? Katy, what does that mean to you?

Katy Montgomery 0:30

Well, I mean, I think when I think of Karen, I think of the most famous Karen case, which is the woman who accosted the bird watcher in Central Park, who was just nasty, mean, entitled, ad racist in there. That's what I think of Karen. I also think of something that I saw on Instagram maybe about a year ago, where a woman was going through the Taco Bell drive-thru and they got her order wrong. She parked her car, marched up to the drive-thru window, and the only way I could describe it is went absolutely ape shit. So I think about those examples of Karen, very extreme. But I think what's going to be interesting today is what is the true definition of a Karen? And have we been a Karen? And what is the wrong way and right way forward? I guess when you are, when you have a complaint, when you have an issue, what is the appropriate way to handle that? Justin, do you do you think you may be a Karen?

Justin Joseph 1:28

Well, I'd like to refer everyone back to the very first episode where I had because I did what could be arguably described as Karen behavior. Having said that, when you talked about Karen coming into this, you know, I always have immediately tied Karen's to racism, and that's probably why I have such a bad connotation of it. And that's really not what it is. Do you agree?

Katy Montgomery 1:46

It's not. I mean, in fact, I'm gonna let me just put on my trusty readers and um So you look like a Karen.

Justin Joseph 1:52

So you can rip them off when you make a point.

Katy Montgomery 1:55

Well, you know, Karen is typically one of the definitions is that they are middle-age. So the readers definitely signify um middle-age. So the the definition that I find is Karen is a pejorative slang term, typically used to refer to a middle class woman who is perceived as entitled or excessively demanding. The term is often portrayed in memes depicting middle-class white women, I think that's maybe where the race issue comes in, who use their whiteness and class privilege to demand their own way. But what I found is there's generally five common kinds

Five Traits That Signal A Karen

Katy Montgomery 2:30

of elements or that you see among these kind of care and episodes. One is weaponized entitlement. This is the belief that the person's comfort outweighs um the rights, the time, and the dignity of everyone else.

Justin Joseph 2:45

Is that like a class argument? Like I'm a better class than you are.

Katy Montgomery 2:48

I just think that it's like how I feel and my comfort and the fact that I am secure is more important than your rights, your time, and your dignity. Okay. It's that I I trump you. Um, the next one is the neighborhood watch syndrome. This is the person who's the self-appointed unpaid policewoman. You see this where it's like, this is the person who's a nightmare in the HOA. You know, she's going in and she's kind of self-righteous indignation, you know, just checking every kind of detail. She's hyper-vigilant. Um, the next one is escalation as a hobby. This is someone who just even a cold French fry, they will escalate something up. It's like their passion. The um the other ones are selective rule following. These are people that expect everyone to follow these rules, but they may not apply to them. And then last but not least, which I think is one of the things that really kind of drives me the craziest, is intellectual inflexibility. And that is they are immune to logic, data, or common sense. They are such a victim of the situation, they are not up for being kind of evidence-based. And so I think when we think about that, I'd like to think that I don't operate as a Karen, though I know that there are some times when I have um not acted in the with the best intentions or with the kindest tone and language with people who are in the service industry.

Justin Joseph 4:27

Yeah, I see. That's surprising to me. I can't see you. I mean, I know that you stand up for yourself, but I can't see you. Um can you give me an example of sometime you've you've stood up for yourself or been bordering on care and behavior? I mean, I can give you 30 off the top of my card.

unknown 4:43

I know. I know.

Katy Montgomery 4:44

The show's not long enough to walk through those. I mean, you know, this is what I think is is why we need to be curious is why is someone exhibiting, you know, care and behavior? Why are they acting entitled? You know, why are they escalating, you know, issues? Why are they intellectually inflexible? I mean, it's being curious about why they're like that. The the most recent example I can think of is when my father passed away, I was handling the estate. And people who know me, I I hope would define me as generous, but also fiscally responsible and could be cheap. And my father had a lot of American Express points. And, you know, there were bigger issues at play here in terms of the estate, but for some reason I was fixated on those.

Justin Joseph 5:31

You wanted them?

Katy Montgomery 5:32

Well, I just I didn't want them to go. What are we talking about?

Justin Joseph 5:35

We're talking about millions. I mean, like, I I know points are a big thing in divorces. That's also in estate planning as well.

Katy Montgomery 5:40

I mean, I just really doesn't matter how many points there were. It was just I wanted them.

Justin Joseph 5:45

The viewers want to know.

Katy Montgomery 5:46

I got and I called American Express and I felt as though the person was patronizing me. I exited my father's home and I walked in circles around the backyard, and I ripped this poor guy in the middle of nowhere, every new asshole that I could. And then I asked to speak to the manager, and I ripped his asshole 10 times to nowhere. And and I think in retrospect, I was frustrated. I do think that they didn't handle it like, you know, your father just died. My father's like, but that was on me. I think there was a lot of projection and lack of control and lack of filter because of the circumstances. And I wonder if are these Karen's just fundamentally assholes or are they hurting?

Justin Joseph 6:37

Oh, that's a really, really good question. On that note, let's take it to the advice column this week. And so um, this is what gave us the kind of the idea to do this

Personal Confession And Why People Snap

Justin Joseph 6:45

column. So um, this person wrote into Deer Abbey, and the question was so quick backstory. I'm 21, a Midwestern transplant living in deep South Georgia, and I'm not smile through everything kind of Midwestern. I'm not the smile through everything. Got it. Let me repeat that. And I'm not the smile through everything kind of Midwesterner. I'm blunt. I've learned to put a polite, I'm not mad grin, but I don't apologize to make people comfortable. I'm at lunch with a friend who loves calling me a Karen. The place is dead, four tables total. We wait for 45 minutes for two cold, soggy sandwiches. I don't want to send it back. I just want to pay and leave. The waitress asks, is everything good? And I smile and say, No, it kind of sucked. Can I get the check? She gets the manager. He asks, What's wrong? I calmly tell him because again, he asked, and my friend is horrified. Now, every time we go out, he begs me not to be a Karen. Am I a Karen or am I just in the wrong zip code? And Abby wrote back, well, what was funny is everybody wrote back. Um I forget the three letters, and I did I only put the letter, but everybody thought she was a Karen of the situation. What are your thoughts?

Katy Montgomery 7:48

I mean, I think what's interesting is she says at the beginning, I'm blunt and I don't apologize to but to um make people comfortable. So this person clearly has an edge and she's not apologizing for it. You know, she's not making any excuses. And, you know, and I think if we were to argue is blunt, you know, is blunt a positive adjective by which to describe your communication style, I would say probably no. Um, it does sound a little entitled, and then going back to those kind of requirements, it does look a little bit like intellectual inflexibility. Like I I'm not gonna apologize to make anyone else comfortable, which leads me to believe she's putting her comfort first, right?

Justin Joseph 8:30

And I see I have no problem with putting your comfort first. I guess it at someone else's expense, maybe, but I think that that's just life anymore. Is people and if you don't, you're gonna get ran over if you're not put if you're not thinking about yourself first in most situations anymore. The world will run you over.

Katy Montgomery 8:46

Well, you're gonna get ran over, Chester.

Justin Joseph 8:49

What does that mean?

Katy Montgomery 8:51

Really bad English.

Justin Joseph 8:53

Did it when I said the world will run you over? It should be the world will ran you over.

Katy Montgomery 8:58

I'm like, you need to go hang out with this Karen down in that.

Justin Joseph 9:02

Wait, what did I say that's wrong? You're gonna get run over? You're gonna get ran over? That's what it's supposed to be.

Katy Montgomery 9:07

Oh, you said ran over. And what do you think? Oh I'm gonna get ran over.

Justin Joseph 9:12

You're gonna get yourself ran over.

Katy Montgomery 9:14

You need to go hang out with this Karen in her podant town where they serve bad sandwiches. Here's here's the thing. When I say that this rose to the level of a Karen, no. But I think what she is missing is, you know, if her real intention was, I just wanted to get out there and pay, what was the point of saying it really sucked? You know, I think this is someone who has some righteous indignation and doesn't have a filter. So I wouldn't, again, according to those kind of five, you know, kind of qualities that tend to be kind of present for a Karen, I wouldn't necessarily it rises to the level of Karen, but I

Dear Abby Letter: Bluntness Vs Respect

Katy Montgomery 9:55

just I really would love to kind of deep dive with her to be like, you know, if you wanted to pay and get out and it's a small town and you didn't want to make your dining companion uncomfortable, why did you pursue this? And why is it such a sense of pride that you're being so blunt? You know, I think this is somebody, it's really interesting when your best friend is saying you're a Karen and you're not processing that, I think that's in and of itself saying something.

Justin Joseph 10:22

Let me ask you this. Would it have made changed your opinion if she would have said something besides the sandwich sucked if she would have said, um, I was really disappointed that the food was delayed or and this and it was mediocre, you know, quality?

unknown 10:35

Yeah.

Justin Joseph 10:36

What's the difference?

Katy Montgomery 10:37

I mean, I think that there is, it's all in the delivery, right? So when you say to someone, well, it just really sucked, they get defensive, they get uncomfortable, they get scared. It's no longer a productive conversation.

Justin Joseph 10:49

Because here's how I can see it right in my eyes, how you would have said you would have said, you know, I love you, but this really sucked. That's how you would have done it. Am I wrong?

Katy Montgomery 10:57

I think I probably would have said is I love coming in here, you know, and I really enjoy this restaurant. Today it was a little disappointing because of it, it was 45 minutes late, you know, with something going on, you know, it would be great, you know, if if, you know, next time, you know, it it wasn't such a delay. I mean, what would you have done, Justin?

Justin Joseph 11:15

Well, hold on, before this is my favorite thing about Katy, because when we're in college, there's we we called it the Montgomery grip. She would come up to you and she would she would come up and I can't, she'd just give you a little nudge right here, like, how how are you? And she'd grab you right here just to let you know that she was thinking of you, like, you know, how are you? And then she would then she would rip right into you. This is cute. What is this? Take it off. Something like that. So she would have done the Montgomery grip verbally to the sandwich people, like, you know, I love this place, but the food really sucked. Something like that. I hate when I give you this southern accent.

Katy Montgomery 11:48

I know. I do. First of all, I do not sound like that. And number two, Justin, it was so funny. I was looking through kind of some of our clips, and you know, there's the famous one of yours that's like, I mean, I will always use manipulation. You're you're having me come off as a manipulator. I don't think let's be fair. I don't think that that's you don't think you're at all have a manipulation.

Justin Joseph 12:09

Now, yours is more just right in your face.

Katy Montgomery 12:11

I mean, everybody manipulates at some time. I just wouldn't define, I wouldn't say one of my leading characteristics is that I am manipulative.

Justin Joseph 12:19

Okay, well, we'll definitely discuss this on the other side of the break. Coming back, we're gonna talk about the things that you can differentiate that you're not a Karen, the five characteristics that if you're doing these, you are not a Karen. And we'll apply these to the situation. We'll also talk about how I would have handled it if I would have handled it any differently. Um, we're also gonna tackle some viewer emails from last week episode last week's episode of our um dry January or drink less January. So we'll have all of that on the other side. We'll be right back.

Katy Montgomery 12:44

You've been listening to Wrong Way Forward, where bad advice goes to die and then gets resurrected just so we can roast it again.

Justin Joseph 12:51

If you're enjoying the chaos, hit like and subscribe and come back every Thursday for new episodes.

Katy Montgomery 12:56

Have a new topic or some disastrously bad advice you want to dissect? Email wrongwayforwardpodcast at gmail.com. Include your contact info.

Speaker 13:06

Now back to Wrong Way Forward. Roasting the worst advice ever. Welcome back to the Katy and Justin podcast.

Katy Montgomery 13:12

Hi, everyone, and we're back. And I think it's now time for Justin to be kind of in the hot seat. And I mean, Justin, what would you have done in this case? I mean, do you think she's being a Karen?

Justin Joseph 13:25

Uh no, I don't think she's being a Karen. And um, I, you know, I'm always a big fan of just go to the top. I don't waste time with the people at the middle level. I I will give them one chance, like, you know, can you check where our food is? Blah, blah, blah. The food's not here. Okay, we're done. Moving on.

Katy Montgomery 13:39

Justin, that's escalation as a hobby.

Justin Joseph 13:41

I mean, that's exactly what it is. No, it's just if you want results, you go to the person who gets you results. So I'm not mean. I'm like, you know what? Let me just talk to your manager. I do it on the phone. I get someone on the phone, I give them one chance to solve my problem. If they can't, I'm moving on. I don't have time to deal with them and hear all of their nonsense. So I would have gone right to the top. And I would have just, and I would have provided honest feedback and said, this is, you know, totally unacceptable. We've been here for 45 minutes for a sandwich. If you, if you knew you were going to be 45 minutes, we should have known up front so that we could have made different arrangements. Unacceptable. Check, please, take care of the check, whatever. Now, on that note, there are five things that you can apply to any situation that would suggest you are not a carrier if you are. These are the five rules that um one person put out there. When you answer honestly when asked for feedback, I totally answer honestly when asked for feedback. Do you?

Katy Montgomery 14:29

Um, I do. I and I don't think I'm I don't think I'm dishonest. I just I I try, not always, but I try to be kinder in the delivery, and I and I hope because of that, it will be more likely heard and absorbed.

Justin Joseph 14:42

And I think you're really good at that. That is you are, you can deliver the meanest sentence ever with just a nice delivery. You're a horrible, awful person, and you should die.

Katy Montgomery 14:52

Justin, I tell you that very often.

Justin Joseph 14:56

Um, the second characteristic is stay calm and don't raise your voice. I am really 50-50 on this.

Katy Montgomery 15:01

I really agree with that. I am too. I mean, it's hard to keep the voice calm and at a reasonable level.

Justin Joseph 15:10

And if you can master that art, you can win anything because I can feel it coming up in me and the tenseness and and my voice follows right behind that. And if you can master the stay calm and don't raise your voice, you can say the exact same thing and have the exact same argument and you win more often. I suck at that. Don't insult or demean anyone. I don't, I probably am a 95% person that I don't do that. There are definitely some time.

Katy Montgomery 15:34

Yeah, I don't think you insult, I think you do that as soon as we get in the car or behind closed doors.

Assertive Not Karen: Five Guiding Rules

Katy Montgomery 15:40

To their face. No, I actually think that that that is not an issue for you.

Justin Joseph 15:45

Yeah, I don't think that is. Don't demand freebies or punished off. Never ever have I ever done that.

Katy Montgomery 15:50

That is hysterical because I have a friend. This is a friend that you're aware of. Y'all have had a run in. She is the queen of asking for a freebie or a consolation prize or you know, something to make up for the issue.

Justin Joseph 16:06

Like, give me an example of what this person would want, like free dinner.

Katy Montgomery 16:10

I mean, like if we're at a hotel, it could be a credit. If it's somewhere else, it could be an alt all you know, an alternative. I mean, like, she has it's really pretty amazing. And her delivery is so good. And I am literally just cringing, like, don't ask, don't ask. And I would say nine times out of 10, she's successful.

Justin Joseph 16:29

I think it reduces the power of your argument. The minute you see you bring in money into it, it reduces the strength of your conviction. Like, this was wrong. I don't care that you can make it right. It was wrong, wrong, wrong. I want nothing to do with you. But if you want to give me a $15 credit, I'll have something to do with you.

Katy Montgomery 16:45

No, I did, I, you know, I disagree. You know, I have had a horrible issue with Amazon because they are doing so many deliveries in our neighborhood. And I think sometimes they're just like, we're gonna dump everybody's packages on this street at this one place, you know? And finally they did it three times in a row. And I'm like, Amazon does not care about me. There is no relationship there. If they lose me, they will continue to be fine, right? And so I have pushed on the like, I'd like a credit, you know, there has to be some kind of compensation for this. So I have asked for that.

Justin Joseph 17:18

And I think it's different when you're dealing with a corporation, right? You know, yes. I mean, than a person. Nine times out of ten, whenever you're in a Karen situation, you're dealing with a specific person. And the fact that you're being a Karen probably has something to do with the fact that this person has no power in the situation.

Katy Montgomery 17:32

Yeah, and I think that's the thing that we often forget. Like, you know, this person has no power, no agency, and absolutely, you know, no sway to change the situation. So when you're taking it out on those people, it's almost it's cruel.

Justin Joseph 17:48

Yeah, 100%.

Katy Montgomery 17:49

Okay, what's the fifth one, Justin?

Justin Joseph 17:51

The fifth one is simply advocate for yourself and then move on. So it's answer honestly, stay calm, don't insult, don't demand freebies, and advocate for yourself and move on. And they call this assertiveness and not caringness.

Katy Montgomery 18:04

Yeah, and I mean, and I when I coach people, I talk all about the all the time about there's a fine line between being assertive and aggressive, right?

Justin Joseph 18:11

Oof, that line for me is weeky, week, weeky, weeky.

Katy Montgomery 18:15

It is. Are we on the side? Are we on this side? Yeah, yeah. And and so, and I think, you know, being blunt, probably not making eye contact, not treating that person as an individual human and saying, well, it sucked. I I I don't, I just I don't think that that's that necessarily she's not cleared of all five of those elements.

Justin Joseph 18:37

I agree. I agree. What's funny is Josh and I have some of our, well, we used to because we have knocked it out. It's like I'm training the dog, my new dog not to bark, and so I have a vibration collar on her. And so when she barks, she'd go quiet and vibrate. So we had to knock two be one behavior out with Josh. I did not have a vibrating collar, but I had aggressiveness. We would go into a situation where I would become assertive and he would back back me off right in front of the person, the the person I was coming after, he'd be like, Oh, he doesn't mean that, or and I it would my focus would go whoop like, did you just say that in front of them? And so he's you know, he's just such a nice person. He always wants to reduce the tension, and he'll be like, Oh, it's fine, it's fine. I'm like, no, it is not fine.

Katy Montgomery 19:22

Anyway, so well, I think I think the the interesting what came to me is that it's like, you know, what is assertive to you might register as rude, mean, and inconsiderate to Josh, right? I mean, there's a spectrum. And so I think what's interesting is the conversation is like, okay, on a scale of one to ten, you know, your five is his ten. And I think it's understanding again, this is going back. What makes him uncomfortable and you're being aware of that? And how can you temper it and still be your true self?

Justin Joseph 19:53

Okay, now we're in a counseling session for me, which is fine. But um, what my biggest issue was like, I don't care that you uh you May be absolutely right that my behavior was inappropriate and unacceptable. You just never, ever, ever, as my husband, do that in front of anyone. I don't care whether I'm the worst person and the wrongest person in the world, the most wrong person in the world. Is that better? Um you just never take me on and because you've taken their side over me, and that to me is unforgivable.

Katy Montgomery 20:22

Yeah, I think it would be different if he said to the to the service person, you know, oh, my husband's a real jerk, just ignore him. Or if he says, Justin, your behavior is just I think if he's saying, Oh, don't worry about it, you know, I think you need to kind of revisit that.

Justin Joseph 20:36

Okay, this will have to be a future episode for that.

Katy Montgomery 20:39

But can we agree, Justin, that based on the kind of definition of a Karen and that weaponized entitlement, escalation as a hobby, selective rule following, and intellectual inflexibility with a tinge of racism is completely the wrong way forward.

Justin Joseph 20:57

Uh completely the wrong way forward. And we have agreement.

Relationship Dynamics And De‑Escalation

Justin Joseph 21:00

Uh 18 minutes into the show, we finally have agreement on something on season two, episode three, or whatever we're on. All right, so we're gonna take some viewer emails this week. As you know, last week we talked about uh drink last January. There was discussion of magnets on refrigerators, and that really set some people off. And so I got this one. Oh, actually, there was also discussion of Spanx. Uh hi Katy men's sphinx, if you remember. Hi, Katy and Justin. First of all, RIP to Justin's dignity when Katy hit him with Welcome to the Life of a Woman. I laughed so hard I inhaled my own mascara. Second, Justin describing fat rolling out of the sides of men's sphinx is the most educational content I've heard in all of 2026.

Katy Montgomery 21:40

There you go. Well, let's see. I've got one, let's say here. Justin, I say this with love as a fan of the show. Your take on Dear Abby letter made me shout at my car speakers. The idea that you should just be honest and tell a partner that they need to lose 30 to 50 pounds is totally the wrong way forward. Katy is 100% right. Shame is a terrible motivator. And this is what I love.

Justin Joseph 22:03

This person's a terrible motivator.

Katy Montgomery 22:06

But this person did a little research. Are you ready? Did it get a stat? According to a study published in the journal Obesity, I mean, who I mean, that's what an issue it is. There's a whole journal dedicated to it. Weight discrimination and fat shaming actually lead to increased weight gain and a higher risk of remaining obese over time because of the stress and cortisol levels that Katy mentioned. Katy, keep being the voice of empathy. Justin, listen to Katy on the kindness over bluntness rule for 2026.

Justin Joseph 22:37

All right. Well, I love our viewers. Our viewers are very smart people and they see everything, but we can still disagree with them. I just wish some of our viewers would start just calling writing us and saying I want to be on the show and take you on. Well, let's have some live viewer emails, people. All right, here's another one I got. Katy talking about six mini adventures. You all remember last week, Katy said that her New Year's resolutions, one big idea, six mini adventures, four better habits. Katy said, talking about six mini adventures made me break out in hives. I don't need six mini adventures. I need one large nap and a small refund. Also, Katy saying she would do social media while delivering a 10-minute tutorial about an Instagram guy I'm married to. A Spanx lady is extremely online behavior. Oh my lord.

Katy Montgomery 23:18

Well, mind you, I came up with that content prior to my New Year's resolution. So people need to check it and kind of understand that there is a timeline.

Justin Joseph 23:28

All right. This one also, thank you, Justin. Thanks for representing the Lump Huddle Law community. Oh, God. I think I'd like to fire at this viewer. No, I'm kidding. That's actually a male. I that's surprised. Trevor, I don't know who Trevor is, but that's surprising. I I thought that would be female. Okay, moving on.

unknown 23:43

All right.

Justin Joseph 23:43

Well, any other view remails from you, Katy?

Katy Montgomery 23:45

No, I think that's it. But I do want to say that I did get quite a few texts from something that we did in 2025 when we both admitted we were um chronic bedwetters. And I'd like to say, you know, we both talked about all the shame that was around that. It's kind of crazy. People are coming out of the woodwork now that we're in our 50s, and there's like, who cares if you piss the bed at 13? Let me

Mailbag: Dry January, Spanx, And Feedback

Katy Montgomery 24:10

tell you, there's quite a few of us. There should be like an alumni group, like former bedwetters.

Justin Joseph 24:15

Didn't you say bedwetters are smarter people? Didn't you tell in that episode? Didn't you say something like that?

Katy Montgomery 24:20

I mean, I gotta look up that stat, but you know, Sarah Silverman, the comic and actress, was a bedwetter. And I think she might, she might. I need to double, I need to double confirm, but she um was the one who said that there's like a higher incidence of intelligence among bedwetters.

Justin Joseph 24:34

Oh God. More Karen's, more Karen's among us. All right, we'll be back right after this, or we're gonna take up the final something I've been trying to do for weeks and we just never get to it, is it finally you all can meet Preston. And we're gonna talk about Kim Kardashian's Christmas presents to her children and how Petta came after her. We'll be back right after this. Thanks for streaming Wrong Way Forward, the weekly reminder that advice is usually free for a reason. We call out bad advice wherever it hides, boardrooms, break rooms, and even book clubs.

Katy Montgomery 25:02

Enjoying this dumpster fire? Like, subscribe, and check back every Thursday for new episodes. Want us to roast your favorite piece of nonsense? Email us at wrongwayforwardpodcast at gmail.com. Be sure to include your contact info. We're not psychic, just judgmental. And now back to Wrong Way Forward.

Speaker 25:21

Roasting the worst advice ever. Welcome back to the Katy and Justin.

Katy Montgomery 25:25

And we're back, and we finally, you know, get to meet this dog that Justin has talked about. He might have pulled a Karen when the breeder said that he wasn't gonna get the dog, if some of the listeners remember, there was a lawsuit.

Justin Joseph 25:38

There was about to be a lawsuit filed over the dog.

Katy Montgomery 25:41

There we go.

Justin Joseph 25:42

This is Preston. Give it say it. No, look over here. Look over here. So she was asleep, so she's not an amateur. You can barely see it.

Katy Montgomery 25:48

Preston has an interesting spelling.

Justin Joseph 25:50

Katy hates it because she this is how that would have gone. She would have come and be like, oh, grab the uh Montgomery Grip. Oh, she's cute. What's your name, Preston? How do you spell it? You know, Jess, I think that's gross. That's how that would have gone.

Katy Montgomery 26:04

I do. I don't like the, I just I don't understand why you just didn't spell it P-R-E-S-T-O-N.

Justin Joseph 26:10

Because we're big fans of male-female names, like names that sound male but are female. And Preston was just too male, and so we did the Y-N to give it so that she'd be female when we take her to the vet and such.

Katy Montgomery 26:22

There you go. It's nothing bothers me more.

Justin Joseph 26:25

I know you you hate you hate the new A Reash.

Katy Montgomery 26:28

It really does. I'm not a fan.

Justin Joseph 26:30

Yeah. Oh, we should do an Empus Future episode on that. Last thing we'll talk about in this block is Kim Kardashian gave her. I don't know if y'all saw this or not. Kim Kardashian was called out by Peta for gifting each of her four kids their own dog for Christmas. And um, they were four Pomeranian puppies. I'll put it up in the edit um so you can see it. But and Peta said puppies are not plushies. Let me just tell you, I've had four dogs now. And they are a pain. This one has been the hardest. I mean, we're up at least once a night taking her out, maybe twice. She's just very hymened. So there I I I forgot how hard it was to have a puppy. So this will be my last puppy that I will be um rescuing after if we decide to go further after this. That's nice.

Katy Montgomery 27:10

Well, what do you think about this? Do you think that that do you agree with PETA that she shouldn't have gifted each child a dog?

Justin Joseph 27:17

Yeah, I mean, I do. I think that, you know, unless the not all four kids wanted a puppy. So this was not something that was thought out. We we planned for this dog for two years. She obviously just wanted to do something that, you know, probably made a splash on Insta. But, you know, maybe one of the kids wanted a puppy, but not all four. But anyway, I think it's a little ridiculous.

Katy Montgomery 27:35

I mean, I think it's probably a little ridiculous. I can tell you, um, you know, I was having a conversation um last night with two friends from law school, and then I know my brother's children are wanting a dog. I I have known that every person whose child has ever wanted a dog has loved that dog, but has not done anything to raise, take care, or make sure that that dog stays alive. I mean, my guess on the back end is that Kim Kardashian has plenty of help, and those four dogs will be well fed, well-walked, and well cared for. But I do agree, I think gift, I think it is dumb to gift a dog if someone doesn't want a dog. Because I do think, and we know this, it is well documented on this podcast. I have asthma, I'm not a big fan of

Meet Preston And The Puppy Ethics Debate

Katy Montgomery 28:20

animals, I'm allergic to most of them. I think you're a real jerk if you take in an animal and you don't want to love it and show it attention and give it, you know, not just, you know, food, shelter, you know, but also actually love it. So I think that's really just dumb and tacky to give something to someone that didn't want, particularly a living being that should be loved and cared for.

Justin Joseph 28:44

100%. And I know that because when she starts barking in her kennel at 12:30 in the morning and I have to get up in tidy whities and hair disheveled and take her out as I'm stumbling down the stairs without my contacts in, she gives me a kiss and it makes it worth everything. Okay, that's gross. Okay.

Katy Montgomery 29:01

That's gross. And on that note, we just want to remind everyone um we love to hear any kind of feedback, but we also really, really love when y'all write in and give us your own RonwayFords. And then um, so that is um RonwayFord Podcast at gmail.com and Justin.

Justin Joseph 29:18

And then we also are gonna be talking to the author of this book, A Thriving Guide, a guide to thriving coming up. His name's John Rosenberg, and Katy, maybe you can just tease what that episode is about. So if anybody wants to grab the book, they can be ready to talk with us.

Katy Montgomery 29:30

Really exciting. Um, Justin and I both um have purchased the book and are gonna be reading that. So hopefully John will be on soon. The idea is how do you get past surviving and into thriving? And how do you take the agency that you have um to create kind of an environment where you are, you know, at your very best. Um, so we're excited to have him. And he's gonna really talk to us about what's the wrong way forward when you're trying to kind of get into that thriving space.

Justin Joseph 29:57

We'll have that in the next couple of weeks. Thanks everybody for joining us. We'll see you next week on Wrong Way Forward. All right, that's a wrap on this week's episode of Wrong Way Forward. Remember, the only thing worse than taking bad advice is giving it.

Katy Montgomery 30:09

If you've liked what you've heard, like, subscribe, or follow us wherever you stream podcasts. And if you've got a topic or need some advice, we'll probably regret giving, email us at wrongwayforwardpodcast at gmail.com.

Justin Joseph 30:23

Thanks for listening to this week's episode of Wrong Way Forward.