20. Grinding, Grievances & Growing Up Beckham

This week on Wrong Way Forward, Katy and Justin wade into a celebrity family feud so messy it makes group texts look civilized: Brooklyn Beckham vs. the House of Beckham.

We unpack scorched-earth strategies, alleged wedding drama, grinding rumors that live rent-free in everyone’s head, and what happens when family conflict goes public before anyone’s prefrontal cortex is fully cooked. Is Brooklyn bravely speaking his truth—or impulsively burning bridges? And if you’re David and Victoria Beckham, do you stay silent, lawyer up, or call a family therapist instead of a PR firm?

Along the way, we spiral into snow panic, salt hoarding, Broncos stress, mother-in-law stereotypes, Prince Harry comparisons, and whether calling someone “a piece of work” is sexist (jury still out).

As always, we ask the only question that matters: what’s the right way forward—and what’s absolutely the wrong one?

Bad advice dies here. Family drama does not.

Transcript

Snowstorms And Small Talk

Speaker 0:00

She's Katy Montgomery. He's Justin Joseph. These best friends are serving subpoenas to bad advice weekly with Wrong Way Forward. Katy now. Here's Katy and Justin.

Katy Montgomery 0:11

Hi, my name is Katy Montgomery, and I'm here with my best friend Justin Joseph, and this is the Wrong Way Forward podcast. Um, how are you, Justin?

Justin Joseph 0:19

I'm doing great. I've got um heading up the mountains this weekend, and so I'm trying to get everything done. Plus, at the beginning of the year is when real estate picks up, so I'm just kind of jamming, and my dog is having issues learning how to go to the bathroom outside, so that's starting to stress me out. So, other than that, everything's good. How are you?

Katy Montgomery 0:33

Well, I am, you know, I don't know if you know this about me, Justin. I think you can guess it. We're expecting 26 inches of snow here on Sunday.

Justin Joseph 0:41

Oh, is this that big storm?

Katy Montgomery 0:42

It's the big storm, and I can't stand snow. Yeah. Um, I don't drive in it, I don't like it. People who know me know I like to walk around, I like to be out and about. This is my first weekend in a really long time where I don't have plans. I was planning to kind of roam the city, you know, take some breaks. And, you know, 26 inches of snow for a short person, that's almost about half of my body. So I am dreading it. And I can tell you, um, last night I ordered some salt. And this morning, my personal shopper, because I just wasn't gonna take the car out and deal with, usually I just put things on my back at the grocery store and walk, but salt's pretty heavy. And he said, he wrote me and he goes, I can only find one thing of salt. As you know, there is a storm coming. And I wanted to be like, James, duh. That's why I ordered the salt. And I was talking about it.

Justin Joseph 1:36

We have a personal shopper.

Katy Montgomery 1:37

Yeah, well, you know, through like, you know, Target or whatever. But I was talking to a friend this morning who lives in Baltimore, and she says they can't find salt anywhere, and that people are starting to cross the border into Pennsylvania. Oh my goodness, why do you want to get salt?

Justin Joseph 1:52

I've heard about this story. We have a smaller version, and I'm going to Breckenridge, but we've got the Broncos game on Sunday, and so I need to get back down here, and so I'm starting to panic that I may have to leave early, but we'll see.

Katy Montgomery 2:02

Justin, those are some real first world problems.

Justin Joseph 2:05

Well, I'm just depressed because once this Broncos game season's over, then that's my worst time of year. Like once football season's over until St. Patrick's Day is miserable.

Katy Montgomery 2:14

I know. But talking about first world problems, um, you know, today on Wrong Way Forward, I think we're gonna cover a pretty famous family and try to kind of understand, you know, the two sides and who's the wrong way forward, you know. So, Justin, do you want to give a little background about this family feud?

Justin Joseph 2:33

Yeah, you know, we're careful to take on culture, we're not the culturistas. We don't take on a lot of pop culture here, but we do do occasionally when we think it veers and crosses over into the wrong way forward.

Why The Beckhams Are Under Fire

Justin Joseph 2:42

And so this week we're taking on the Beckhams. And of course, everyone who knows the Beckhams, I don't know if did you watch the Netflix documentary on them, Katy?

Katy Montgomery 2:51

I have watched, I think there's two different ones. There's one for Victoria, and then one, I guess, for the Beckhams. I have kind of gone in and out. I have not watched from beginning to end.

Justin Joseph 3:00

Well, I of course went down a rabbit hole and watched, I think there were four or five episodes and watched them all in like an hour. Um, anyway, the Beckhams are an interesting family, as you know. He was a famous soccer player and started dating a spice girl. They've had a slew of children, they ran in the exclusive circles with the Tom Cruise crowd. Um, anyway, they have found themselves in a proverbial shitstorm with their son, who has gone public with allegations that basically um they're not real loving parents. And um, Katy sent over a New York Times article, if you guys want to Google it, but basically we'll outline some of the allegations and talk about why we think his response, meaning the son's response, whose name is Brooklyn, is either the right or wrong way forward. But basically, to summarize what his main issues with his parents were, I guess at his so he has married a um heiress who's worth billions of dollars. The family does not like her, and so that he alleges that they are taking it out on him. He says that when they were getting married, the mom had committed to making a wedding dress and backed out at the last minute, leaving her without any options. He then says at the wedding, the mom like tried to grind on him before the first dance, which is weird. Um, and then basically they've been trying to ruin the relationship, his relationship with his wife, who they've been together since 2022. Anyway, he basically he also said that they're trying to make him give up rights to his last name because they're their last name. I mean, it's scorched earth, scorched earth, scorched earth, Katy.

Katy Montgomery 4:20

Yes, it is scorched earth. And I think, you know, generally I have a very, you know, fast reaction. Scorched earth strategy never works. Um, you come off as defensive, vindictive, nasty. Um, it doesn't um put the other person, the recipient of the scorched earth strategy. It doesn't put them in a position to where they want to have a conversation and come to um a you know agreed to point of view. Um, I think it's something that can have, you know, disastrous effects. So it's maybe not just aimed at his parents, but he does have siblings, he has friends related, um, people will start to take sides. And this is something, you know, when we say scorched earth, I mean he's really could burn it down. Um, so I think generally Ronway Ford is the scorched earth. I think

Scorched Earth And Its Fallout

Katy Montgomery 5:13

there's a few interesting questions that I when I'm kind of reading casually about this issue, I'm not seeing people talk about this. And the first thing is Brooklyn is 26 years old. Um, and Brooklyn has been in this feud with his parents for at least a year, maybe two. And I think what people forget is even though you are considered an adult at the age of 25 or 26, science has proven that your brain, particularly the part of the brain, which is called the prefrontal cortex, is still developing. And your prefrontal cortex is really important. It's what where we have things called executive function. This is long-range planning, it's impulse control, and it's complex decision making. And if you look at this, here's this 26-year-old. His prefrontal cortex is still developing.

Justin Joseph 6:07

And how long does it take? Like, what does the research say?

Katy Montgomery 6:09

I mean, the research says fairly by middle, your mid-20s, you know, depending on kind of you know how you're evolving, it could be into kind of your late 20s. But I think what we're seeing from here, him is, you know, a lack of impulse control, right? Long-range planning. Is he really thinking about the effect long term of this? He is getting the kind of scratch the itch here and now. But what does this look like five years from now, ten years from now?

Justin Joseph 6:35

What are the consequences of my actions?

Katy Montgomery 6:37

Exactly. And so, you know, so I think it's first of all, you know, what's going on with this kid and what has hurt him so much that has, you know, that has brought him to this space. And instead, what I'm seeing on social media is, oh my gosh, I can't wait to see the grinding video.

Justin Joseph 6:57

Well, so to to clarify what that is, so maybe uh maybe I didn't explain that. Um, but basically at the wedding, they had planned, he and his wife had planned this beautiful first dance, and he says his mother basically came in and took over the dance and was grinding on people. Well, there was not a video anywhere to capture this, and of course, all of the sluice out there, the Dumois out there, were looking for it. Nobody has seen a video of it, but Dumois did say back in the day, someone had posted that there was an awkward situation on the first dance.

Katy Montgomery 7:28

But what's interesting too is like you mentioned something about the wedding dress and that Victoria Beckham had agreed to kind of design his wife's wedding dress and pulled out at the last minute. But all accounts is that, you know, she had, you know, contracted with Valentino and had worked with, you know, that designer for over a year putting that together. So what's happening is is right now the parents have not responded, but you are seeing more and more factual evidence that maybe Brooklyn, you know, in his kind of comments are maybe not factually correct. That doesn't mean that what he is saying is that, you know, look, our family is fake and there's social media influencers and there's a facade and there's something happening behind. But his specific examples are starting to be kind of broken down, you know, among influencers and media. And so again, kind of going back, you know, what is the right way and wrong way forward? And how do we, you know, operate with this 26-year-old who's clearly hurting and is clearly acting impulsively and without thinking about the about his consequences.

Justin Joseph 8:34

100%. And what I was struck with reading um the articles and kind of getting up to speed on all of this was I did, as I said, I watched the David Beckham documentary. And, you know, if you read about David Beckham, he had had an at least one, maybe multiple affairs. And then the Netflix documentary, which he was paid to do, and you know, he was paid a lot of money to do, he just glosses over it. I mean, Netflix kind of I think Netflix had her on camera talking about the relationship, but he basically just didn't take any responsibility for it. He goes on and accepts all this crazy money from Netflix and then just expects

Prefrontal Cortex And Impulse Control

Justin Joseph 9:09

the viewers who know this to give him a pass. And so to me, this is one apple that has not fallen very far from the tree.

Katy Montgomery 9:17

And so, I mean, Justin, you know, when you read this kind of these comments and what Brooklyn's putting out there, you know, I think something that we should really kind of discuss and kind of break down in kind of our our next um, you know, block is what is the right way forward for the Beckhams? I mean, and particularly if we're operating with some high ego, which it seems like you talked about in terms of the Beckham, um, David Beckham, you know, do they respond? Do they do something publicly? Do they stay to the side? Um, you know, how should they be handling their three other children who are seeing this kind of play out in front of everyone? What does that look like?

Justin Joseph 9:56

Yeah, let's talk about it on the other side. We'll be back right after this with more wrong way forward.

Katy Montgomery 9:59

You've been listening to Wrong Way Forward, where bad advice goes to die, and then gets resurrected just so we can roast it again.

Justin Joseph 10:07

If you're enjoying the chaos, hit like and subscribe and come back every Thursday for new episodes.

Katy Montgomery 10:12

Have a new topic or some disastrously bad advice you want to dissect, email wrongwayforwardpodcast at gmail.com. Include your contact info.

Justin Joseph 10:22

Now back to Wrong Way Forward.

Speaker 10:23

Roasting the worst advice ever. Welcome back to the Katy and Justin podcast.

Katy Montgomery 10:28

And we're back, and we're talking about the kind of family feud between Brooklyn Beckham and his parents, um Victoria and David. And we've kind of talked about how, you know, Brooklyn's response, scorched earth, putting it out in public, um, kind of dumping, for lack of a better word, family secrets is most likely the wrong way forward. But we do need to kind of handle him with kid gloves. He's he's still evolving, he's still growing, um, and maybe kind of getting his long-range planning, his impulse control and executive function into check. But I guess the bigger question and Justin is, you know, what is the, you know, wrong way forward? Or right way forward, but what would be the wrong way for maybe David and Victoria to respond to this? Or alternatively, what is the right way? You know, if you were to see this play out, what would be an appropriate response from these parents?

Justin Joseph 11:19

Well, I think that's a that's really the question because we're not just, I mean, although we are being looky-loos into their family drama and it's super fun. Um, we should try and take get some takeaways. Um, you know, this is what was interesting to me. I think whenever you try and start putting everybody's dirty laundry out, it becomes a race to the bottom because that's never about fixing the issue. It's about trying to make the other person look worse than and then it goes back and forth. So it really is a race to the bottom. Um, you know, I I suspect that there are much deeper issues here, Katy. Uh, the issues that we probably don't know about. It could be the fact that he doesn't he's not completely developed, like you talk about. But it sounds to me like there's some deep underlying pain. And so, you know, the right way forward, I think, is always, and I, you know, I don't know a family out there, maybe yours, that has not had family drama before. And, you know, I think the solution is always open communication, discussion, a lot of therapy in many cases, and taking personal responsibility. I think that's where it started and ends in these situations. What are your thoughts?

Katy Montgomery 12:18

Well, I think first of all, you know, it is it is kind of one of the understoods is that mother-in-laws always hate their daughter-in-laws. I mean, it's it's I mean, it's in

Fact Checks On Dresses And Dances

Katy Montgomery 12:28

every movie.

Justin Joseph 12:29

And vice versa.

Katy Montgomery 12:30

Yeah, it's in every book. I mean, this is what happens, right? So I think, you know, and I talk a lot about this with kind of my coaching clients, is you know, first of all, for you know, Brooklyn is like control what you can, what is within your locus of control. You cannot control your mother's behavior. She assuming that she's been nasty, especially if she's a spice girl.

Justin Joseph 12:51

Hello.

Katy Montgomery 12:52

Hello. Um, but you know, you are not going to control her behavior. She is a grown-ass woman, she's an independent thinker. You're not going to change her. But what you can do is change your reaction. That is something that's within your locus of control. And I think likewise, the way that I think for approaching it from, you know, Victoria and David, you know, we go by first names, is that they need to think what's within their control. They can't control, you know, Brooklyn's um social media use. They can't control his pain, but they can control their reaction to it. So I think the first thing for them is, of course, the reaction to this would be humiliation, embarrassment, shame, anger, frustration. Those are all emotions we know that are not productive, that it's not going to bring about, you know, peace in this family. So I think the first thing is focusing on what is within their locus of control as parents. And then I think it is, I think it's reaching out to him if they can and saying, how can we solve this? You know, what does this look like? What does a healthy family look like to you? Um, and I think that's gonna be the approach. What I fear, and I do think it's been very responsible for them to not make a statement and to not push back. I think, Justin, you said it brilliant brilliantly that like this is a race to the bottom. They're not participating in that. But I think they really need to bring in an expert. And I'm not talking about, you know, a PR rep or a crisis comms person. I think they should talk to people who are trained on family conflict and how to reach someone who's in that much pain and how to start a conversation.

Justin Joseph 14:39

I agree. And I don't know that the answer that he gave, he was on CNBC yesterday, and I and they were he was asked about this because, of course, it's everybody's talking about it. Why, I don't know, but everybody's talking about it. And they asked him about it, and he said um he wouldn't comment, but that children are allowed to make mistakes and that's how they learn. That to me is also not the right way forward because it's if you're not gonna comment, then don't comment. Don't just automatically say it's his mistake. You're not taking, again, any personal responsibility. Like, you know, we've all done things that we regret, but it's an internal matter, we're not gonna comment. It's he immediately puts the blame back on him. So I don't think that's the right way forward either.

Katy Montgomery 15:14

Right. Yeah, I mean, I think I'm a little bit, I you know, I found that to be less offensive than you. I felt that being um understanding and giving his child a potential out. But I do, I do agree with the humble brag, though. Yeah, I mean, it could be well, it's his mistake. He'll learn. I would do that. I do agree with you if it's if you're gonna stay quiet, you're gonna stay quiet, right?

Justin Joseph 15:40

It's oh they made a mistake, oh, they made a mistake. And be like, well, you did too, you asshole.

Katy Montgomery 15:48

Anyway, well, again, this is what is so interesting, right? Um, you know, I don't I I've been biting my tongue this entire episode. Oh gosh. But I'm wondering if this, if Brooklyn, you know, and you know, I want to state for the record, you know, this is a hypothesis. I am not a mental health expert, but just the scorched earth approach, but also a lot of the facts that seem to be publicly disputed. I mean, like she wouldn't, maybe there was a second dress being made. Now girls wear like four dresses during their wedding, um, you know, or certain kind of facts. I'm just wondering if if this child is having kind of a mental break.

Justin Joseph 16:32

It is but this is interesting to me because again, we are looking at this through totally different lenses. You're looking at it at a lens

What Should Parents Do Publicly

Justin Joseph 16:39

that's um a supportive of the child, and I'm looking at it at a lens of the parents really mess this up, which is just how you and I, it's just so interesting that you and I approached it's indicative of how we approach everything completely differently.

Speaker 2 16:51

Well, but the but it also the two things you not want to hate the Beckhams a little bit.

Katy Montgomery 16:55

Yeah, but I'm saying two things could be true at once. They might have really screwed this kid up, and that's why he's having a mental break and using scorched earth and airing their dirty laundry. I mean, there I agree. There, there's something going on behind.

Justin Joseph 17:08

Yeah, and I don't need to see a video of Victoria's spice or posh, whatever she's grinding. I see it in my head, it's playing over and over and over, and it's obnoxious, and it's I can just see her, the spotlight's not on her, and on she goes.

Speaker 2 17:21

And she's so skinny.

Justin Joseph 17:23

Well, of course.

Speaker 2 17:24

Like, I mean, who wants to grind with a skeleton?

Justin Joseph 17:27

Well, her husband, hello, her husband's out philandering with everyone, so she has to be. She can't even gain a peanut.

Katy Montgomery 17:34

See, and if my husband cheated on me, see, again, this is how some people are different. Some people, like my sister, when we lost our parents, she was just dropping weight right and left. Me, I was like, Where's the pack of Oreos with a side of ice cream? So, unlike Victoria Beckham, if my husband was philandering, I'd blow a third ass. It's so true.

Justin Joseph 17:58

What do you think about how does this relate to like the you know, they're best friends with Prince Harry and Megan? And I think she is awful.

Katy Montgomery 18:04

Well, they drive me insane. It's like quit being tacky. It's like, you know, your family, like I think about that all the time. Like my siblings have known me their entire lives. It is such a unique relationship. Like, no one knows you better than the people who have known you since they came out of the womb.

Justin Joseph 18:27

Right.

Katy Montgomery 18:27

And gives you more love and passes, and you can Yeah, and and again, some families are really messed up and unhealthy, and you need to create boundaries. But I don't think a boundary is, you know, again, airing your public laundry in kind of scorched earth. I think it's tacky, and I then, you know, so it is interesting. I think it's, you know, very fascinating that you made that correlation, and I'm and I'm sure a lot of people are. And I think let's just add another piece in here. Wealth, fame, power, you know, lack of, you know, everyday boundaries and restrictions can create quite a personality or quite a bit of opportunity, which might not be healthy or kind.

Justin Joseph 19:12

Right. And it's interesting because you talk about someone who's got a lot of pain and hurt is Prince Harry. I mean, he obviously does. I can't imagine growing up in that family, is always the number two, literally and proverbially.

Katy Montgomery 19:22

Um and then I read his biography and he was of course you did. Of course I did. I listened to it at 1.5. So his British accent was very fast. Um, yeah, I mean, he's, you know, definitely the second, but he's also experienced um, he's had great, you know, he's had his impact in his own way. Yeah. He's experienced love. He has experienced, you know, he also didn't have to carry the weight of being the future king. And he also didn't have to carry the weight of being the first. So it's kind of like, you know, everybody gets to bitch, but what's appropriate? And, you know, again, he married.

Justin Joseph 20:00

She's a strong personality and she just ran right over him.

Katy Montgomery 20:04

Well, Justin, I think you might get an email queen. I think you might get a few emails about is that a sexist comment? I think she's a piece of work, but definitely.

Justin Joseph 20:14

Well, why is that? What's okay? We'll take this up by the said why that's okay to say she's a piece of work, but I said she married a strong woman and she ran right over him. That makes him weak. That's nothing, that's not a comment about him. Her maybe it is. We'll talk about that on the other side. We'll be right back. Thanks for streaming Wrong Way Forward, the weekly reminder that advice is usually free for a reason. We call out bad advice wherever it hides boardrooms, break rooms, and even book clubs.

Katy Montgomery 20:39

Enjoying

Locus Of Control For Both Sides

Katy Montgomery 20:40

this dumpster fire? Like, subscribe, and check back every Thursday for new episodes. Want us to roast your favorite piece of nonsense? Email us at wrongwayforwardpodcast at gmail.com. Be sure to include your contact info. We're not psychic, just judgmental. And now back to Wrong Way Forward.

Speaker 20:58

Roasting the worst advice ever.

Justin Joseph 21:00

Welcome back to the Katy and Justin. So Katy and I were disagreeing on the other side of the break or the front side of the break because I said that, you know, Prince Harry had all this pain and that he obviously then married a strong woman and she ran right over him and the family and the poor queen who was on her deathbed at the time. Um Katy thought that was sexist, but she said, but she is a piece of work. And I my question to Katy is why are you allowed to say that and I can't.

Katy Montgomery 21:22

So because a piece of work doesn't have a gender connotation to it. You're a piece of work, I'm a piece of work, Megan's a piece of work. But for you to say he married a strong woman and she ran all over him and he's weak. You're saying that a man who marries a strong woman personality is weak if the woman is strong. I just I find it a little offensive. And I think I made a pretty good argument just then.

Justin Joseph 21:48

Well, we we should we should tease our text line. 72045. I actually forgot it as we're sitting here. 720-251-4450. 720-251-4450. Do all text us, let us know your thoughts, whether Katy's right or I am. Um if you think Katy's right, just journal. If you think I'm right, go ahead and text us. Um and so we'll take a few of your emails before we wrap up this week. As you know, last week, Katy, what were your thoughts? We did, and I thought it was one of our more interesting episodes, the episodes Am I a Karen? I went in thinking Karen's are racist. I came out thinking Karen's are just overly assertive and entitled. Um, but it was interesting to take the test and see what people thought. What did what were your thoughts about last week's episode?

Katy Montgomery 22:30

I mean, I I think it I think it's definitely interesting, and I'm excited to see kind of how it's you know been resonating. Um, and I think everyone has this kind of deep fear of you know losing control and it not landing well. And and and so I think that's why it's so relevant. Um, and you know, and I think it's been interesting. I've been thinking a lot about it because I was um I took my nephew to a place called Silver Diner, and I take him there when after he spends the night, we walk down there and we have breakfast together. And the service is horrible, it's just really horrible. And you know, and it's like he got his meal before I even got a cup of coffee. You know, it's kind of ridiculous. And I just was like, the entire time, I was like, Katy, don't be a Karen. Katy, don't be a Karen. And then I'm like, excuse me, do you mind if I please have a cup of coffee? And and then I heard the guy across the person came to um take his order, and he goes, Thanks, I've been waiting 12 years.

Speaker 2 23:34

And I was like, I was like, Amen.

Katy Montgomery 23:37

But then I just thought to myself, well, she just feels like crap, and she's not gonna change anything. And you know, and now it's just awkward. And so then I felt really virtuous for keeping it together. And then I'm like, well, that's probably Karen behavior. So now it's gotten too much in my head. But I'd love to hear what are our yeah, what are the what do the viewers think?

Justin Joseph 23:59

Well, this one speaks to that. Someone wrote in and said, I thought this episode was going to help me reflect on my behavior in restaurants, as did I, viewer. Instead, I learned about men's spanks points hoarding during grief, and that my entire personality might be weaponized entitlement. I don't like what this podcast is doing to me, but I'm keep I will keep listening. We also had this one. Go ahead.

Katy Montgomery 24:21

Our response

Boundaries, Wealth, And Public Feuds

Katy Montgomery 24:22

to that is um, thanks.

Justin Joseph 24:25

Keep listening. Um, I turned to this episode while sitting, I turned on this episode while sitting in a Starbucks drive-thru. By minute three, I realized I was absolutely a Karen because I was already annoyed that the barista said no worries instead of apologizing. Also, Katy describing escalation as a hobbly felt extremely personal. I don't escalate because I'm angry. I escalate because I'm efficient. Okay, that's gonna be I'm gonna put that on my t-shirt.

Speaker 2 24:50

Yeah, I mean, that sounds like you, Justin. You're like, the server gets one try and then I take it to the top.

Justin Joseph 24:55

Then it's time to move on. And the last week mail, Katy, uh, Katy and Justin, when Katy asked whether Karen's are assholes or just hurting, I felt extremely seen. I am both. Thank you for validating my trauma while still roasting me. The podcast is basically therapy, but much meaner and much cheaper. So that's that's a good way to wrap up. Your free and mean therapy weekly here at Wrongway Forward. Thanks for listening.

Katy Montgomery 25:20

Thank you. Thank you for listening. And because we're so cheap, we would like to put a little fee out there. We would love, love to hear from you on our email, wrongwayforwardpodcast at gmail.com. You can interact with us on YouTube, TikTok, Instagram, and Facebook. Um, and if you haven't yet rated our podcast, we'd love to hear from you. So thanks again.

Justin Joseph 25:40

All right, that's a wrap on this week's episode of Wrong Way Forward. Remember, the only thing worse than taking bad advice is giving it.

Katy Montgomery 25:47

If you've liked what you've heard, like, subscribe, or follow us wherever you stream podcasts. And if you've got a topic or need some advice, we'll probably regret giving, email us at wrongwayforwardpodcast at gmail.com.

Justin Joseph 26:01

Thanks for listening to this week's episode of Wrong Way Forward.