33. Dying Moms, Bad Bosses, and Rat Boys

Bad advice meets brutal reality in this week’s episode of Wrong Way Forward.

A longtime employee’s mother is dying… and her boss still wants the meetings. Is this heartless corporate nonsense—or a failure of communication on both sides? Justin and Katy break down one of the most uncomfortable advice columns out there and ask the question nobody wants to answer: where does empathy end and accountability begin?

From newsroom chaos (yes, including being sent to cover a single snowflake on Christmas Eve) to the art of “contracting” your work relationships before things fall apart, this episode is a masterclass in what happens when expectations are never clearly set.

And because we can’t help ourselves—Timothée Chalamet enters the chat, takes a swing at ballet and opera, and somehow becomes the villain of the arts community overnight.

It’s messy. It’s funny. It’s a little too real.

New episodes drop every Thursday. Subscribe, follow, and send us the worst advice you’ve ever heard—we’ll roast it.

📩 wrongwayforwardpodcast@gmail.com

Transcript

Welcome And The Premise

SPEAKER_00 0:00

She's Katie Montgomery. He's Justin Joseph. These best friends are serving subpoenas to bad advice weekly with Wrong Way Forward. Now here's Katie and Justin.

Katy Montgomery 0:12

Hi everyone. Welcome to Wrong Way Forward, a podcast where we roast the worst advice. My name is Katie Montgomery, and I'm here with my college best friend Justin Joseph. Justin, how are you?

Justin Joseph 0:22

I'm doing great. You know, it's spring, the spring has sprung in Denver, as they say. I'm opening the pool early. And so yeah, 80 degrees yesterday. Plants are blooming. I'm looking at my grass and thinking, what am I going to do this year? So yeah, great. What about you and DC?

Katy Montgomery 0:36

Wait a second. You had 80 degrees yesterday in Denver.

Justin Joseph 0:39

80 degrees yesterday in Denver. We have, I think, 83 or 84 today.

Katy Montgomery 0:43

So things are I'm in DC and it was about 35 degrees yesterday. It was free.

Justin Joseph 0:49

You are kidding me. Yeah, we've got a we've we've only snowed three times this winter, which is not great, but you know, because the ski industry is impacted. I tried skiing once and it was terrible. Um, but anyway, it's been lovely because we basically had a long summer, early spring.

Katy Montgomery 1:04

Oh my gosh. Well, we are we are dying for that to happen here. We are ready for it on the East Coast. And with that being said, I am going to dive into this week's Wrong Way Forward.

A Boss Ignores A Dying Mom

Katy Montgomery 1:15

Um, this is an actual advice column from the New York Times. And what I think is interesting here is this is part of their um their group called Social Cues, which kind of asks about kind of edited questions. And the headline is My boss didn't care that my mom was dying. Help. So it says, I have taught at the same community college for over 30 years. In October, my mother became seriously ill and died the next month. During her illness, my new boss asked to meet to meet with her about year-head paperwork, and I declined the meeting. She requested at the last minute, and my mother was being evaluated for hospice care that day. The next day, my boss sent me an email about three other meetings I had declined. I responded that I was stepping away from meetings during my mother's illness, but my boss doubled down. She told me she held everyone to the same standards to ensure that contractual obligations were being fulfilled. After my mother died, I told my boss in person how disappointed I was and her lack of empathy. She replied that all employees must meet their obligations. At this point, I can't even look at her. Are there any suggestions? And so, Philip Gaines, who kind of manages social cues, writes back, I'm sorry for your loss, for the grief and anger you are feeling now, and for the stress you felt while you were juggling work and caring for your mother. You may not love my advice, but I think it's time to revise the one-sided story that you are telling yourself. It does not serve you. To be clear, your boss does not appear to be a contender for any empath of the year award. But at the same time, employees do not have a unilateral right to stop performing their jobs because of personal circumstances. You don't mention speaking to your boss or to anyone else, to ask for recommendations during your mother's illness or to even reschedule meetings that you missed. You simply informed your boss that you had stepped away from meetings during this period, but that wasn't your sole prerogative. Now it's possible that your boss may have refused your request, but we'll never know because both of you stuck stubbornly to your own courses at the very moment you should have been talking to each other. But that's in the past. It's only been a few months since your mother died. Take care of yourself. There will be plenty of time to process your feelings about your boss and work protocols later.

Empathy Versus Job Obligations

Katy Montgomery 3:40

So, Justin, what do you think about this advice? Is this the wrong way forward?

Justin Joseph 3:45

Well, let me just say, I have only managed people once in my life. I, you know, I've I've had careers as a lawyer, a reporter in a newsroom. And when I was getting out of reporting, um, my newsroom asked me to. So they're in TV, like you've heard Nextstar in the news now. Next star owns like 40 TV stations. So the ownership group of my TV station said, Would you run a newsroom for us? So they sent me to Norfolk, Virginia, where I ran a newsroom. So I have ran been boss of been managing people for exactly one year to the day because it's I I think I was good at it, but it's just that's the kind of boss I was. If somebody came to me and said my mom was dying, I'd be like, Oh my god, what are you doing here? Get out, go away. This one is like we all have responsibility. I mean, that's the kind of boss I think you I would aspire to be, or actually I wouldn't aspire to be, but I think that's kind of it makes me cringe, but it's probably the way you handle this. You're this is your wheelhouse. What do you think?

Katy Montgomery 4:38

Well, I

Contracting Team Norms Before Crisis

Katy Montgomery 4:39

think the first thing, and I talk to a lot of leaders and managers about this, and what we are not doing in relationships and work relationships is what I call contracting. What does this look like? And the idea is the reason that we contract about how we handle certain things is that we're talking about it when there are no stakes involved. We're talking about it when we're not in fight or flight, you know, we're talking about it in hypotheticals. And so it's easy to have the conversation because there is not, you know, stress or tension in the room. That seems appropriate to me. Yeah. And so the example I give all the time is when I was at my previous university in Siad and I made a transition to an associate dean role, I very clearly sat down with my boss and asked things like, How do you like to communicate? How frequently, what do you like our one-on-one meetings to look like? But then I asked a question that literally served me so well. And I said, What could I do that could piss you off? Oh, interesting. And it was that question that gave me a little nugget that then over the next years, I knew that if that issue popped up, I knew that he needed to be involved and he would not be comfortable with the money. Do you remember what it was?

Justin Joseph 5:49

I'm just curious.

Katy Montgomery 5:50

Yeah, so it was um, you know, generally he handled kind of faculty matters, I handled um student matters, programmatic matters, staff issues. And so it became a certain faculty he wanted to engage in that. And it was clarity around that because that would, you know, varied from when I'd been an associate dean at Hopkins. And so it was just clear enough. And I know that the reason he gave me that, you know, kind of piece of advice is because he had been informed by, you know, um circumstances in the past where somebody didn't handle a faculty issue very well. But it was so telling for me. So what I think is interesting is my first piece of advice would be like, why is there not an understanding here of what happens when you take time off, right? Or when you're disengaging. So I think that's a great way when you just, I mean, this person's been there for 30 years, but when you onboard someone or when you change leadership or when you have a new supervisor, is how are we gonna work together? And one of those things is what happens when things aren't smooth sailing? You know, what kind of notice do I expect? What kind of um, you know, communication are we gonna have? That's doing it before you have that moment of tension. So that would be my first piece of advice.

Justin Joseph 7:07

So give me a relate that to this. So you when this one was hired, they should have said what they should have had that conversation.

Katy Montgomery 7:14

Yes, and it's just it's a contracting conversation, and one of the one of the kind of pieces of data that I always refer people to. And if anyone listening wants to read it, the New York Times, um, it was probably about 10 years ago, did an article on Google's um uh an initiative called the Aristotle Project. You know, and Google has data upon data upon data, and they were really trying to figure out what made some teams more effective and successful from others because they were all being hired the same way, they were all being bore onboarded the same way, they were all having the same kind of review system because they wanted that consistent data. And what they found is the teams that were more successful were the ones that contracted together. These are our norms, this is how we operate, everyone understands it, and then also talking how do we operate in moments of tension or stress, because that's when we tended our strengths move from the balcony, which is where you want to be, to the basement, right? And so that's the first thing is you know, why was this such a surprise? And what I think is also interesting that I do think Philip Gaines did very well is two people were making assumptions and then literally digging their heels in. One was my mother's dying, I should have full empathy and be able to do whatever I want to. The other person is you have certain expectations, and if we were to make um an excuse or to allow some you know flexibility, well, the work wouldn't get done, right? And so there's clearly a disagreement about how we operate in this space.

Justin Joseph 8:48

And so, how should the manager have handled that on the front side than on the contracting side? How would what would be a would have been a better way to do that?

Katy Montgomery 8:55

Well, I think the first thing is, you know, managers, you have some managers who so much just manage to the KPI, the key performance indicator, right? You know, your sales goal should be this. You know, you should attend this meeting. Um, you know, you should have your end-of-year paperwork. It's just very much cut and dry, black and white. And most of the world isn't that way. I think really good managers manage to the person, right? And and those people need to be managed in different ways. How you manage me might be very different than how you manage Justin, but you want to bring them both along that growth journey and to have them kind of unleash their true passions because that's when you're gonna get high engagement work. So I think what would be first interesting is to talk to this person and say, you see someone missing meetings, right? Somebody's mentioning hospice. Rather than continuing to beat the drum of sending meeting requests, what would have been a good conversation is sitting that person down and saying, what's going on? What do you need? How can we recontract moving forward about how to work over the next month while you're dealing with this personal issue? And it could, she could still hold the person accountable for their deliverables, but have some flexibility in how that's done. Likewise, what I do think Philip Gaines does very well is that this person who was struggling and was hurting because her mother was passing away, she just took liberties to assume that, oh, well, because I'm dealing with this, I'm no longer required to do my work. And it would have also been helpful if she kind of initiated a conversation, right? And I think her being very thoughtful about look, I'm working with a boss who is not an empath. She probably appreciates more data-driven communication. How can I talk to her in her speak and how she operates to get what I want? Instead, people just are like, this is what I want, and I'm sticking to it.

Justin Joseph 10:59

All right. So on the other side of the break, we're going to talk more about managing to the person and how you get what you want when you're at work. And then in block C today, we're going to talk about the Timothy Chalamet outrage over his comments on the opera and ballet and how that may have impacted him winning best uh actor this year at the Oscars. We'll be right back.

Katy Montgomery 11:17

You've been listening to Ron WayFord, where bad advice goes to die, and then gets resurrected just so we can roast it again.

Justin Joseph 11:25

If you're enjoying the chaos, hit like and subscribe and come back every Thursday for new episodes.

Katy Montgomery 11:30

Have a new topic or some disastrously bad advice you want to dissect? Email RonwayFordPodcast at gmail.com. Include your contact info.

SPEAKER_00 11:40

Now back to Wrong Way Forward. Roasting the worst advice ever. Welcome back to the Katie and Justin Podcast.

Justin Joseph 11:46

Hi, everybody.

Boundaries And Managing To The Person

Justin Joseph 11:47

Welcome back to this week's episode of Wrong Way Forward, where we're talking about assumptions made on the job that get everyone in trouble, both from the management side and when you're on the employee side. Katie was talking about going into the break about managing to the person, and it struck a nerve with me because when I was in a newsroom, Katie, um, I had our executive producer was a very, very good friend of mine. I mean, we went out together, we drank together, et cetera, et cetera, et cetera. I was a really good employee. I had great sources. I I worked ahead. I always had something what they called in the can so that if we had a problem with the lead story, I could put up, pull up something out of the hat. So it was Christmas Eve, and I had advanced my story. I had I had something in the can that I was going to put on that evening. So I that basically meant that I didn't have to work Christmas Eve. I was at the I was at the um newsroom in case there was a shooting or something, but I really was done. I had to be on air at 10, that was it. Um anyway, we even went to brunch that morning, this executive producer and I, and had, you know, mimosa, and then we went to work and it was great. It was Christmas Eve, it was so fun.

Katy Montgomery 12:47

Super professional, yes.

Justin Joseph 12:48

Exactly. Well, at 9:30, a flake of snow falls out of the sky. And she runs me up to the mountains an hour away to be to front a s a flake of snow falling, and I was livid.

Katy Montgomery 13:00

I'm sure you were.

Justin Joseph 13:01

Yeah, because I, you know, I this was Christmas Eve. I wanted to be home, and I was up fronting a snowflake, it wasn't even a real snowstorm. And and her and I had it out afterwards because I thought she was uh she was treating me like a busybody. She wasn't managing to me or my strengths. But maybe you feel differently. Maybe you think that that was her prerogative as my manager that if she needed to be fronting a snowflake, I needed to be fronting a snowflake.

Katy Montgomery 13:25

Yeah, I mean, I think it's interesting. I think you've grabbed onto something and tried to make it your own. You're like, she wasn't managing to my strengths. And I'm like, well, what what's your strength here? Is that you had a lot of fun?

Justin Joseph 13:34

She wasn't managing my personhood.

Katy Montgomery 13:36

Yes, exactly. My manhood because I'm like, the strength is that you had something in the can so you could get out on Christmas Eve and go home. Um, well, I think that this would have been, I think there's a host of issues going on here, right? I mean, there's there's drinking before you go to board.

Justin Joseph 13:52

Well, we're not yeah, that was like a mimose.

Katy Montgomery 13:56

Yeah, whatever. I mean, you've never you've never had one mimosa. So let's just let's let's not lie to our audience, number one. But number two, I mean, there's clearly some boundary issues here. And my guess is that if there had not been those boundary issues and there was a clear kind of compartmentalization between these are the expectations as a friend, and these are expectations of a boss and an employee. Right. Um, and again, going back to that contracting, it probably would have been a lot clearer. Um, I think that would have been a time where, you know, again, you were digging in, I'm right. She's like, I'm right. That would have been nice to maybe have a compassionate reset meeting, right?

Justin Joseph 14:35

I don't, those are tough for me.

Katy Montgomery 14:36

I am sure, but you are wanting compassion from her, right? You had planned accordingly, it is Christmas Eve, you know, and then it would be okay, let's look at the data. What is the likelihood that this could be a storm? It would be important to report. I think also it's maybe establishing something like um, you know, a potential handover. It might be also talking about kind of red, yellow, green, like maybe having some kind of signals like we're in the red zone. We're in the yellow zone, we're in the green zone, right?

Justin Joseph 15:05

You're you're literally saying that to each other.

Katy Montgomery 15:07

I mean, this is contracting. And so this is your friends, right? And so you're trying to say, you know, we are right now in the green zone. Things are operating well. I'm meeting expectations at work, we're together as friends. Yellow, we need to have a conversation. We're in the red zone. And you were in the red zone. And then how do we operate when we're in that space? We take a breather, we have a reset meeting, we talk about objectives, we're able to have, you know, five minutes uninterrupted to kind of um discuss. What are the boundaries and the rules around that to where you could have addressed that? Um, but you were making so many assumptions and you had done so much planning that you were in fight or flight when that when that um actual plan got disrupted. My guess is that she's like, I have to deliver, and this is the person who's on deck.

Justin Joseph 15:58

Yeah, I think that's absolutely where she had. She probably is she had just had a history of giving me busy work. I could have a lead story that that would be exclusive and all that. And if I was sitting at my desk, she would find something for me to do. And that makes me nuts.

Katy Montgomery 16:09

Yeah. Well, and I think that's what was happening is you never had a discussion around that, right?

Justin Joseph 16:14

Um, we did have finally have a discussion.

Katy Montgomery 16:18

And what you've defined as busy work, it would be interesting to see to she define the same. It was also interesting because management is so complex, right? She might have learned management by being um assigned busy work by her manager, and that's what she saw as the model of how you kind of you know have productive employees. And so we're not having those conversations. And I think that, yeah, and and you should have. Um, and we're really what happens in organizations is we're rarely proactive. We rarely, you know, things are good until they're not. We're not kind of anticipating when we're both in the blue zone, we're both open and aware, our prefrontal cortex is working, we're rational people. We're not having conversations then. We're having conversations when we're like, damn it, it's Christmas Eve and there's one snowflake, and I gotta get the hell out of here.

Justin Joseph 17:10

So relating this back to when I put the rolly pulley picture of you on, how come we didn't discuss red zone, yellow zone, green zone? You just pretty much went red on me.

Katy Montgomery 17:18

But guys, Justin, we met when we were 18. I was emotional, and I was emotional, I was not mature, and we're too far gone. I mean, we had a very impulsive, ridiculous.

Justin Joseph 17:32

I mean, how many times unhealthy?

Katy Montgomery 17:36

I mean, how many times would I literally be like, pull the cart over? I'm getting out, I'm walking home.

Justin Joseph 17:42

We are in the yellow zone.

Katy Montgomery 17:44

So we were in the red a lot too, but it was a good time. But so I think we're too far gone. I, you know, I didn't, you know, I didn't know my head for my ass when I was 18, much less, you know, all the time.

Justin Joseph 17:55

Do you think you're a good manager now? I mean, you don't have you're not really managing anybody right now, are you?

Katy Montgomery 17:58

I'm not managing. So I will tell you this if I had to be able to do that.

Justin Joseph 18:01

Did you like managing also?

Katy Montgomery 18:03

I did. I love managing um staff. I love thinking about their growth. I love giving them opportunities. I love learning from them. I love seeing them step into leadership. And I do believe this, and I know I have some of my former employees that listen to this, I think that they would say as a good manager. Where I am not a good manager is I don't think I'm great at managing up or managing. What does that mean?

Justin Joseph 18:30

What does that mean?

Katy Montgomery 18:31

Um, so you know, if you're the vice president, managing up to the president, or I'm all so sometimes not good managing laterally. So if I'm a vice president managing to another vice president. So I'm really good about giving people the benefit of the doubt who report up to me. But when I'm sitting on a C-suite, if someone I find to be lazy, unethical, selfish, that they hit my value system, I'm not great about managing up and keeping some things to myself. I think I could just see it. Yep, 100%. I think now stepping out of management and coaching so many leaders, I have become really self-aware of that. And I think if I were to kind of go back into manage, I think I would be really good at and I'm I'm great with peers. It's just the peers that I find to be unethical and lazy. I'm not great with. Um, and I think I would be good at managing up even if I had um an issue with that person. I think sometimes I'm just not a kiss ass. Um, you know, and and I think sometimes I would be a right fighter and I I I tried to die on too many hills. I think moving forward I probably wouldn't.

Justin Joseph 19:45

Have you ever cried in a meeting? Because you felt so strongly. Have you? Yeah. Really? That's surprising. Do you think that's a good thing? I can just see it. This is how it would go. It'd be like, I I need to say something. I feel so strongly about this, I'm gonna cry right now.

Katy Montgomery 19:59

Well, and then you're gonna be able to do that. I wouldn't say I'm gonna cry right now, and I wouldn't say like I was sob boo-hoo, but you know, uh this is why a lot of times I do like values card sorts and really talk to people about their values because when somebody is triggering or poking your values, it is to the core of who you are.

Justin Joseph 20:17

And like when you're ordering wine and they try not to tell you.

Katy Montgomery 20:22

But I am very much, and I think this is thanks to my parents and my Jesuit education, and I think, and I do think, and I hope I have a strong moral compass, you know, I do think that we are here for people other than ourselves. And when I see that kind of um selfish, greedy, um, you know, opportunistic behavior, it really triggers me. And particularly because I work in higher ed. And so I think it is very important that we think about what our mission is and what we're doing, um, what our objective is here and and how important that is. And when I see people get caught up, it really triggers me. And and when it hits a real value system, um, yeah, sometimes I get so worked up I haven't been able to hold back the tears. I would say probably only maybe once or twice in like a large meeting that tended to happen maybe one-on-one with people that I was really comfortable with, that I knew it was a safe space, that I I wasn't so steeled up against it.

Justin Joseph 21:28

Yeah, interesting. All right, well, let's dumb this down a lot. And on the other side of the break, we're gonna take up Timothy Chalamet. Shalom. Shalame and his controversial remarks over the Oscars this last week and the battle between him, the actor community, and ballet and opera. We'll be right back on the other side. Thanks for streaming Wrong Way Forward, the weekly reminder that advice is usually free for a reason. We call out bad advice wherever it hides boardrooms, break rooms, and even book clubs.

Katy Montgomery 21:57

Enjoying this dumpster fire. Like, subscribe, and check back every Thursday for new episodes. Want us to roast your favorite piece of nonsense? Email us at wrongwayforwardpodcast at gmail.com. Be sure to include your contact info. We're not psychic, just judgmental. And now back to Wrong Way Forward.

SPEAKER_00 22:16

Roasting the worst advice ever. Welcome back to the Katie and Justin.

Justin Joseph 22:22

And

Oscars Drama And The Arts Backlash

Justin Joseph 22:23

the Oscar goes to Michael B. Jordan. All right, everybody, this week's That was this past Sunday with the Oscars when Michael B. Jordan won uh Best Actor for his work in Sinners. Of course, it was a major upset because Timothy Chalamet, in the weeks leading up to the Oscars, had been the front runner for his role in Marty Supreme. He then made very controversial remarks over the ballet and Oscar community. Katie, did you hear about these remarks?

Katy Montgomery 22:52

I did, and I think it's really kind of funny. First of all, you know, he's chit-chatting with Matthew McConaughey, and it's like an open town hall, and he makes these kind of disparaging comments. Like, why should we try to keep these two, you know, pillars of the art alive, you know, opera and ballet? Nobody's really interested anymore. And, you know, it's so obnoxious and just so flippant. And, you know, and here it is, it's like if you really even kind of understand how the arts evolved, how we got to movies, you know, I've been watching The Gilded Age, which is amazing.

Justin Joseph 23:27

It's such good TV.

Katy Montgomery 23:28

It's such good TV. It takes a little while to get in. It's kind of a you know, a slow burn. But once you get in, it's really good. And to see kind of what's happening with the Met and the opera and the development, it's like, you know, it's it's just so kind of entitled and in the here and now. And it's and it's also just not being a friend of the larger arts community of of which you're a member of.

Justin Joseph 23:51

100%. And to me, it it represents a level of immaturity, right? Um, I think I I think it was last year he made a comment like, you know, he was determined to be a serious actor and the best actor of his generation, which, you know, I think it's acting in the end. These I think that's if there are people who have problems with the Oscars, et cetera, it's because this community takes themselves so seriously. I do think there is such a value they bring to the community in terms of escapism, et cetera. But if you take yourself too seriously in that world, it's a turnoff. And I think he started on that road last year when he said that about his nomination last year, and then to say something so stupid this year, um, it's just really short-sighted and just demonstrates a love of maturity. And he'll be lucky to ever win an Oscar after this comment.

Katy Montgomery 24:34

And I mean, you know, it's really kind of funny if you think about it. I mean, he's been dating Kylie Jenner. I think they're heading towards three years. I mean, that is, I think most people agree, is maybe the lowest form of entertainment, right? It's not scripted, you know, it's barely directed, it's, you know, it's quick and fast, it's it's cheap and dirty.

Justin Joseph 24:54

I didn't even think about that, but you're right. I mean, literally.

Katy Montgomery 24:56

Yeah, and here's the thing: I saw Marty Supreme. I thought it was incredibly well acted, super interesting. I, to me, it was why I like to go to the movies. It was engaging and funny and interesting. And I rarely actually go sit in a movie theater. And that was Did you actually see it in the theater? I did, and I was like with my sister in Birmingham, Alabama, a great um kind of indie film um joint. And I thought this is why I love going to the movies. Oh, I love it. Um, and it was, you know, it had a real arc to the story, it had a lot of intensity, it had a lot of um, you know, big stars. I loved it. And so he did. He did himself absolutely no favors. And what I think is hysterical is people dig in. And so now they have found People magazine has found a picture of Timothy Chalamet at age six in a ballet outfit because he performed in the ballet Romeo and Juliet. And so, you know, he even, again, if we could kind of talk about, you know, how the arts have evolved, he himself evolved, right? He wasn't a movie star, he started out in ballet tights, right? That's funny.

Justin Joseph 26:08

Go ahead, sorry.

Katy Montgomery 26:09

Yeah, it's just it's just ridiculous.

Justin Joseph 26:11

I um since I finished TV, since I go to bed at 7:30 and watch TV for two hours every night, um, I starting, I you know, I watch series over and over. So I'm starting Homeland again. Do you remember Homeland?

Katy Montgomery 26:21

Oh, well, and I never finished Homeland, but I'm I'm because I loved it, and then I moved to Singapore and I didn't have access to I guess showtime. And so I'm too lazy to figure out where I left off. But I loved it.

Justin Joseph 26:34

Oh, it's so good. So I might, but anyway, they introduce um you know the main character's uh daughter or yeah, has a daughter, and the daughter starts dating someone, and who is that person she's dating? It's Timothy Chalamet at age probably, he's probably 12. So it was interesting because he becomes a relatively big character for a season, but it's funny to see him get his first break there.

Katy Montgomery 26:55

The other thing that I think, and once I read this, I've never been able to see it, but they had um an article about like the rise of the rat boys. Did you hear the book?

Justin Joseph 27:04

Oh, yeah.

Katy Montgomery 27:05

I did, and I there are some major actors who have rat-like features, and one of those is Timothy Chalamet.

Justin Joseph 27:13

And, you know, and I've always said this, I mean I was saying the guy, uh, but I mean I said I can't remember the stupid movie where he at the end he swings around his unit and he's naked and dancing. He's a rat boy. Do you remember? Did you see this Jigga Balore?

Katy Montgomery 27:25

I watched, I guess. What's his name? Saltbird. The movie was Saltbird. Yes, he was a total rat boy. They also say Jeremy Allen White, who was on the bear, kind of could have fallen with the rat boys. But you know, there I always said there's only two things I'm scared of rape and rats. And let me tell you, I can't stand rats. So now it's so funny. Like Timothy Chalamy makes this comment, and I'm like, of course he does. He's a rat boy.

Justin Joseph 27:47

That's awesome. Well, that's a good way to wrap up this week's episode of Wrong Way

Where To Find Us

Justin Joseph 27:51

Forward. Uh, Katie, give us up our handles.

Katy Montgomery 27:53

Yes, um, we'd love to um interact with you on email. That is wrongwayforwardpodcast at gmail.com. You can also find us on YouTube, TikTok, Facebook, and Instagram. We love to hear from you, so please reach out.

Justin Joseph 28:06

Bye, everybody. All right, that's a wrap on this week's episode of Wrong Way Forward. Remember, the only thing worse than taking bad advice is giving it.

Katy Montgomery 28:15

If you've liked what you've heard, like, subscribe, or follow us wherever you stream podcasts. And if you've got a topic or need some advice, we'll probably regret giving, email us at wrongwayforwardpodcast at gmail.com.

Justin Joseph 28:28

Thanks for listening to this week's episode of Wrong Way Forward.