46 | Guest, Adam Kasson of Gesswein & SISMA

Episode 46: Guest Adam from Gesswein & SISMA!

If you’ve ever wondered what separates a good laser welder from a great one… you’re about to find out.

This week, Brad & Dusty sit down with Adam Kasson from Gesswein & SISMA, one of the most knowledgeable people you’ll ever meet when it comes to laser welding technology. We dive into the evolution of jewelry lasers, where the technology is headed, and why Gesswein & SISMA continue to push the industry forward.

Now… did our remote interview go flawlessly? Absolutely not.  We battled enough technical issues to make us question our entire existence, but once we got everything sorted out, the conversation was well worth the struggle.

Whether you’re already welding with a laser or just laser-curious, this episode is packed with insights, laughs, and plenty of bench jeweler rabbit trails. Huge thanks to Adam for hanging in there through the technical chaos—and for sharing his incredible knowledge with all of us.

Enjoy Episode 46!

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Transcript

SPEAKER_00 0:11

You know what? I don't you know what? We're recording, so it is what it is. Good evening, Brad.

SPEAKER_02 0:16

It is. It's rainy. It's dark.

SPEAKER_00 0:18

Alright, this is hopefully we get this out in time. We're about to bring in um a very good friend. Um this is episode what? Do you know a number? It might be 46. Episode 46. We've been promising a very special guest, and we're about to bring him into the studio, the stepdaddy Ron Studios, here in just a minute. But before we do, cheers everybody for a I just burped too. Right on cue. After hours. Looky looking a little after hours interview with one of our favorite people in the world. We're about to bring him in. I'm gonna try not to kick the camera again because I just did. Um but his name, do you want to introduce him? You got you got all the pronunciations right.

SPEAKER_02 1:02

Adam Cassen of Guess Wine.

SPEAKER_00 1:06

Guess Wine. We're about to let him in. So when he gets here, we'll just do like a round of uh applause and see if we have Adam here. Let's see if Adam shows up. Adam, can you hear us? Adam, can we hear you now? Test, test. Yes. Yes, we do not hear headphones.

SPEAKER_02 1:30

Got you.

SPEAKER_00 1:31

All right. This is can you hear us? I can hear you. Awesome. So I'm gonna turn you up on our end real quick. All right, go ahead. Let's hear you talk now. You scared the shit out of me because I was working and I had the camera on the back end when you introduced yourselves. Uh-oh. All right, it's all good. We can we can kind of see and hear you. We're here uh after hours, as you can see. It's very dark in here, so hopefully you can see us. I know I can see you.

SPEAKER_02 2:02

All right, that's all perfect.

SPEAKER_00 2:03

There's gonna be there's probably gonna be, you know, a little bit of a delay, but it is what it is because you're gonna do all the talking. So uh welcome to the show, Adam. Brad, you introduced him Casson from Guest Wine. Yeah, some wine. And for everybody who was tuning in, this is we we are fighting so much technical issues, but we are determined to get our favorite person on the show, Mr. Adam. Adam, thank you so much for for hopping on here with us. Dusty and Brad, it's a pleasure, an honor.

SPEAKER_04 2:35

I'm thrilled to be a part of this. Thank you for your invitation.

SPEAKER_02 2:37

And he this is now twice he has stopped by. We we tried to have him on Monday. That's what I said. Did you already say that?

SPEAKER_00 2:46

That's literally what that was my intro. Well, well, Brad's paying attention. Um I love you, dude. It's late. We've had a full day ahead of us.

SPEAKER_02 2:56

Did we did we tell people the Adams twice now? Yeah, yeah, this is the second time.

SPEAKER_00 3:01

Okay. Um, all right, so we wanted to have you on for a few reasons. I know we've discussed this. We're gonna pretend like we've never had this conversation, but we met at an IGO show probably seven or eight years ago. You're better at math than I am, and I came to you because I was considering buying a laser welder, and we're gonna get into all things guest wine and seasmo, but basically, how did we meet?

SPEAKER_04 3:29

First off, you know, we were in Phoenix, I recall. It was a winter show, IJO, and yes, the year's a little bit fuzzy. 2017, 2018 exhibiting, and my colleague, uh, extraordinaire at Guess Wine, gentleman named Bert Barnes, brought you over to me and said, Hey Adam, I want you to meet my new friend Dusty. He's considering getting a laser welder. And from there, of course, here we are in 2026 and the rest is history.

SPEAKER_00 3:58

Yeah, I will add um before we get too deep into it, um at every show I've ever been to, I make sure to go hang out in the guest wine booth, mostly because I want to hang out with Adam, because I think uh you're one of the nicest, most intelligent, most helpful people I think I've ever met for Ben Stuhlers, especially when it comes to laser welders. So I want to thank you for not only just you know selling me an awesome machine, but actually being being a good friend and being super helpful um in those early days. You know, I'm flattered to hear that.

SPEAKER_04 4:31

Uh as a note to everybody listening, uh I did not pay Dusty to say that. Um, you know, but uh relative to so you know, this is a small industry. This this industry, I mean, this is this is an industry that is based on emotion, on feeling. Um, this is never about a sale, you know. We are relationship builders. Um, I, for one, uh like to live my life in building relationships. Um, Brad, we've never met, but I already consider you part of the family. And Dusty, you're a brother to me, man. I I love you, and um I'm so glad that we met. And I'm again awesome that you do this, and I'm just honored to be a part of it.

SPEAKER_00 5:11

Well, we're glad you're on, and we're gonna get straight to business. I will I'll start with my little bit of uh experience on um why I came to you because I opened my own shop about a decade ago. After a year or so of sending out all my laser repairs, um, I started to try to figure out to do the math. By the time I pay someone else to do the repair, by the time I pay shipping and insurance back and forth, I thought to myself that was probably enough per month to to cover the payments on a laser welder. Of course, that's a big decision when you're gonna spend 20 plus grand on a piece of equipment for a jewelry store. It seems um overwhelming. And so I needed to know if this was something I was gonna get. I wanted the best possible machine that was gonna last me for another, you know, 10, 15, 20 years. And um everyone started pointing me towards Sisma. And I'll be honest, you had me sold pretty quickly. I'll be honest, I'm not good with memory, I'm not good with technology and remembering stuff, but I remember what struck what stuck out to me was you not only did you know your machines inside and out, but you could tell me and come and show me the difference in all the other competitor machines. And obviously, neither one of us are here to disparage anybody. There's lots of companies and lots of business to go around, but I'm genuinely curious um why your machines are the best. Why why do you think they're the best? And you can get really nerdy with me if you want to, because you did with me, it was overwhelming, but it sold me. So feel free to take this time to get really nerdy on why season.

SPEAKER_02 6:53

Is the best and he's about to get a little bit more.

SPEAKER_04 6:57

I I had a mild freak out this morning because I am flying to uh the IJO show in Louisville, Kentucky tomorrow. And um I've been with guests for now almost 12 years, and for the first time in my uh profession here on this side of the trade, I woke up this morning to check into my flight, which should have been at 11 30 tonight, and I realized I made it for 11 30 tomorrow night. So uh thankfully thankfully I was able to reconfigure. Um, I'm okay. I'm flying now tomorrow morning. I get there late tomorrow afternoon, but uh you know, waking up with a bit of anxiety like that was uh not a good start to the day. So uh, caffeine, I love you. Uh it's been a mainstay in my life during my entire professional career, and certainly this afternoon, uh it has its valued place uh in my energy system. So cheers to coffee.

SPEAKER_00 7:45

Hey, we've had our fair share of coffee today. It's late in the evening on the East Coast, so we we switched to a little bit of bourbon sipping um at this time of day uh to loosen us up for this interview because we want to have some fun with you. But I know I know you're fighting the urge to get nerdy on Cisma. So if you want to if you want to pause that for just a second, how about you instead tell us how you got into the jewelry industry and how you got yourself working with guest wine, and then that'll lead probably into how you uh started selling Cisma machines. So the floor is yours, sir. Awesome, awesome.

SPEAKER_04 8:24

So I am third generation in the trade. Um I come from a family business, a family of jewelers uh that was started back in 1949. Uh my grandfather, who I never had the pleasure to meet, uh post-war effort, went to watch making school and uh in 1949 incorporated Cass and jewelers. Um he had an untimely death in 1963. My father was 10 years old. My grandmother uh assumed the business. Uh, and so my father went to school, bachelor of uh Bachelor of Arts, and once he got out of college, it was 1973, uh got his apprenticeship and immediately started helping my grandmother uh at the family business. Um she worked in the store until about three weeks before she passed. She passed uh at a ripe age of 86 years old, uh to which point my father became the uh sole proprietor, the owner, if you will. Um my father, uh growing up in the jewelry trade, um, really has been a blessing because uh it's interesting in that, you know, I am more on my mother's side with uh a business articulate. Um you know, my father is left-handed, he's left-brained, he's incredibly talented, and um he is uh he's been on the bench some you know 53 years now. Um semi-retired, both of my parents are. Uh, I have a brother who's two years younger than me who went to school for metalsmithing and jewelry. Uh, I have a third brother who is seven years younger than me. He's also involved in the family business. Uh, but growing up, my father is the oldest certified gemologist appraiser by the American Gem Society in the state of Connecticut. Uh he was certified back in 1986. Uh my mother is also a certified sales associate by the American Gem Society. Um, my brother went to school for metalsmithing and jewelry. Um, we're a jewelry family, you know. I mean, certainly during my tenure, during my travels in life, I mean, growing up in jewelry, um, my family runs not only a very heavy repair business with five jewelers on site, uh, but they do a lot of estate buying. So they're overly versed in Edwardian, Victorian, anything estate jewelry, um, you know, a lot of custom design, but uh it's a rather crafty shop, you know, all of about 900 square feet. But when you walk in, all the benches are there. There's there's smells, there's sounds, it's it's an environment that you walk into, you know, it's a real experience. And uh I'm grateful to uh have the upbringing that I did with my family. Um, but you know, 900 square feet with your mother, father, and brother in there is a little bit tight. Um so fast forward to year 2014, and I happened to be looking online and uh saw that uh this uh kind of little but rather historic company, Guesswine, Paul H. Guesswine and Company, was hiring. And um, maybe in a disadvantage to me, but certainly a uh an interest to show that I was serious. Um I applied for the job as a sales manager, sales uh sales uh person. And uh long and short, I basically wrote, like, you should hire me because I know jewelry and I'm gonna make you a lot of money. And um shortly thereafter, they picked me up in September of 2014. Um, relative to so, you know, my family was thrilled. We've been buying from Guess Wine since the 70s, and now we get a discount, you know. So it was uh it was a win-win for all parties involved. Um but relative to that, you know, about six months into me starting a guesswine, um, hey Adam, we're gonna carry this laser company and uh we're gonna carry this laser. You're in charge of it. Okay. Um I knew what a laser was, but I didn't really know what a laser was. You know, my family business. Even with five goldsmiths, you know, and they turn hundreds of repair jobs a week. Uh they did not have a laser, you know, rather old school. I mean, you know, torch work, even our master hand engraver, nothing was pneumatic, it was all hand push. Um, but you know, obviously they had the reputation around town. And with that being said, when I was uh bestowed with this wonderful opportunity to sell Sisma in this case, um, you know, principally I saw the sticker price on these and I said, well, you know, I this is it's an expensive machine, it's as much as a car in some cases. And so not only do I have to learn my machine inside and out to be the best that I could possibly be at my job, I need to learn about every other machine in the market inside and out. I need to learn as much as I can about photonics, metallurgy, reading white papers by industry professionals, talking with engineers at Sisma, trying to tap into every which corner that I possibly could to advance my knowledge, skill set, and overall understanding of these machines. And here we are now in 2026. Um I pinch myself every day. I I had no idea. I had no idea that Seizma would achieve the success that it has. I also had no idea who Seizma was when I started working with them. Um they were already a cornerstone for the biggest players in the trade globally. Uh, but I didn't know this. So it didn't even matter to me at that time. My objective was to learn what I could to ultimately show customers what opportunities these machines could present to them. And in doing so, right, I mean, I when I first started, I was doing the sales, but I was also the sole technician at Guess Wine for the first three years. Um, so not only did I know how to uh what all the machines did, how they worked, but I had to really know like the guts of these machines, what was going on internally. And I'm very thankful, you know, that Sisma provided opportunities to be hands-on with their many technicians and engineers over the years uh to teach me everything that I know. Um so with that being said, a little bit about my background, how about Seisma? Sisma, which is oh, I again I pinch myself every day because it's, you know, when I, relative to so, when I introduced Seisma really to the US because I was determined to take over the United States with Sisma, uh, my colleague said to me, he goes, Adam, and I mean this with the kindest words possible, you have no competition in the United States except for Rofin. Rofin developed this technology back in 1992. They are a photonics manufacturer, they are very, very they are a lot bigger than us. They are your only competitor. So learn their machines, learn all the machines, learn as much as you can about this technology, and if you obviously succeed, you know, the the results will follow. So Sisma, established in 1961, uh was a fan, it is a family business. They're currently on third generation, just like guesswine. I mean, what a perfect match. It's one family business working with another. Uh Sisma, many people Sisma, Sisma is a tomato tomato. Uh actually stands for the original owner uh whose name was Silvio Sbavo. And so the S-I-S in Sisma is the S-I from Silvio and the S from Sbavo. Now, my Italian is not as sharp as it should be, uh, but the M A is uh Machine Artiente, uh, which uh to offer a translation, machine artisan. Because when they got their start as Sisma, they were a textile company. Naturally, everyone loves Italian threads, beautiful, beautiful clothing. Um but a lot of their history changed, uh, and it changed rather dramatically. So it was around 1970. Oops, what is going on here? Couldn't connect to the studio.

SPEAKER_00 15:58

We're still recording, so we're gonna try to get Adam back on the line. I hope he's not still talking. He might be.

SPEAKER_02 16:07

And hopefully it's recording.

SPEAKER_00 16:10

Oh my god. I don't know what's happening anymore. Alright, so the the good news is all of what we've already said is gonna be salvaged, and this can all be saved with some fun editing. The only issue is you're gonna have to tell us where you think you left off. You were talking about Cisma and Business, I think that's where we lost you.

SPEAKER_04 16:45

I can continue that.

SPEAKER_00 16:48

Okay. Hello, I go ahead and pick up and and finish up with just the Seisma company. Absolutely.

SPEAKER_04 16:55

So I apologize, everyone. Apparently, my uh my internet dropped there. Uh, but as I was saying, you gotta pay your bill. Come on. You know, it's uh probably about 100 degrees outside here in Northern California. I'd like to blame it on that. But uh all that aside, right? So heaven needs a raise. You know, my IT guy wanted me to drill holes through walls to hire to connect directly to my uh my router, which is probably about 50 feet through three different walls, but you know, neither do you know. Okay, we're starting to see the problem here. Yep, yeah. Yeah, but I do have a I'd have a uh there's the router, and then I do have one of the other bouncer things underneath here, too. So I mean I don't know what that was about. It's a constant headache if you're good.

SPEAKER_00 17:38

Well, the good the good news is we can't trust internet, but what we can trust is Cisma.

SPEAKER_01 17:45

Oh professional right there.

SPEAKER_00 17:48

Yes, yes, yeah.

SPEAKER_04 17:50

So with that being said, I mean I I principally I was talking about Sisma a little bit in their history, so I'd like to just continue on that front. Um so ultimately, right? So as I mentioned, they got their start back in 1961, starting as a textile company. Um and what happened is they saw the need for change, right? There was competition and they wanted to diversify, and technologies were emerging. So right around 1970-ish, I believe, uh, they were commissioned to manufacture their first chain machine. So for actual manufacturing chains, right? And um at the time, you know, most chain machines were coming out of Germany, I believe. Um and so it was already not only a niche market, but obviously the people who had don't you dare.

SPEAKER_01 18:44

Don't you dare lose your internet, Adam.

SPEAKER_02 18:49

Adam, we're gonna need you to go make a band real quick.

SPEAKER_01 18:54

This is this this time is Adam. Hope he can hear us.

SPEAKER_02 19:00

You can stop talking about season now, bro.

SPEAKER_01 19:05

I hate technology so bad.

SPEAKER_00 19:08

Adam, can you just fly to to our area and come visit us and do it in person, please?

SPEAKER_02 19:14

Please come just could fly out here.

SPEAKER_00 19:17

Oh yeah, he's gone gone now. Guys, I don't know what this episode is gonna look like at this point. I don't even know if we're gonna have one. We might just go live tomorrow.

SPEAKER_01 19:25

We might.

SPEAKER_00 19:25

Or it's gonna be a live episode. We're just gonna we're gonna talk while Adam gets here until Adam pops back in. How about that? Um, because we already got the recording going. If this is this is uh a train wreck of an episode, but I hate that it's happening to one of the best people in the industry.

SPEAKER_02 19:41

Um why did you pick Seesa, Dusty?

SPEAKER_00 19:44

Man, Adam is and we'll get into it when he hops back on here, maybe, maybe not. Um the thing that that got me was Adam was able to compare the Cisma to to all the other brands. Now, if you want me to get technically explain the differences, we're gonna have to wait for Adam to come back. But I remember just being like overwhelmed with information on like, hey, this is what the other this is what the competitors do, and this is what Sisma does. And um and why it's better. Oh look, he's back. Dude, I've just been Dude, you gotta pay that bill.

SPEAKER_02 20:16

I keep telling, go make a payment. Get online now, bill pay.

SPEAKER_00 20:20

Dude, the good thing is I just took a little hiatus to just brag about Brad said, Hey, why did why did you get a Cisma for? And I I circled back to you overwhelmed me with the technical differences in your machines versus the others. And it and it you were not doing it in a disparaging way, which I think I think people would appreciate if they got to know you and heard you out because you never put down anything. There's different, it's just like buying a car. There's a lot of different cars out there, and to have someone so passionate about the product they're selling and can explain, hey, this is why I think my product is superior, is um is what sold, is what sold me. So I appreciate that you you have taken the time to know these machines inside and out. Um and I I know we're talking about the history of Cisma. Um, if you want to get the chance to kind of wrap up that portion, then I really want to get into just the practicalities of these machines. Absolutely.

SPEAKER_04 21:16

So long and short, thank you, Dusty. And I apologize to the universe about my poor internet connection here. Uh, but ultimately what happened is when they started incorporating electronics into their chain machines, um, their global recognition started skyrocketing. And as a result, they wanted to stay cutting edge. So in the 70s, as early as the 70s, they started investing 15% of their profits annually into research and development. And it was right around the turn of the millennium when now there's lasers coming into play, right? You had it with Rofin back in 1992, Zero in '94, Alpha Laser in '95, all German makes. And so what happened is when CIS was started looking at lasers, their principal need was for their chain machines. So what they did is they partnered. With the University of Padua in Italy, and they started manufacturing. They were the first in the world to develop the automatic laser welder for jewelry application. They're still sold with their chain machines today, and they can fire 24 hours a day, seven days a week, and shoot up to 900 shots per minute. Sisma has some over 150 different chain machines. Each chain machine can do up to five different styles of chain. So that's where they got their international cred from the beginning. But when they started doing lasers, okay, when they started partnering with Let's Go.

SPEAKER_00 22:39

We can only hope. Um we were just, hey, while you were gone, we were just saying that a lot of what when you start talking technology, I get so we get so hype. Yeah, man. And we have no clue what you're talking about because you are the most passionate person about this of anyone I've ever met. So if you are listening to Adam right now and you're not a hype for the different types of laser beats, I'm so glad we had the top hat because that sounds way better than this other thing.

SPEAKER_02 23:09

But yeah.

SPEAKER_04 23:11

It is. And right now, because my internet is not gonna drop, I'm gonna get everybody excited about the top hat, okay? So as I was saying though, right? So just I'm gonna finish up just a little bit on Seasma, but rest assured again, everybody, this thing is not gonna drop. I'm on my cell phone. Probably should have started with my cell phone, so I apologize again.

SPEAKER_00 23:37

Breaking up a little bit. Brad's wrapped around the cords.

SPEAKER_02 23:42

Oh yeah.

SPEAKER_00 23:42

Brad's about to tear down our whole laptop over here.

SPEAKER_04 23:45

It's uh I'm about to burn the house down too, so you know, we can pick and choose our battles, right?

SPEAKER_00 23:51

Hey, you know what? This is this was what we were facing on Monday, and we've had like a whole week of like no internet issues, so we were so pumped, and so um, yeah, it kind of sucks that that the two of us, the three of us, can't get all of our technical issues resolved all at the same time in the same day.

SPEAKER_04 24:13

It sounds like you can hear us though. I can hear you great, absolutely. You know, I guess so I'll I'll continue it. As a note, um, you know, I do fly pretty much all day tomorrow. I do get into Louisville, Kentucky around five o'clock Eastern. I I could obviously do some of this too when I get to the hotel. I don't know if you wanted to do anything Friday. We are doing a laser welding seminar Saturday morning. Um but with that being said, um my my schedule is wide open, and maybe then we'll have to have a uh a follow-up date to this one too. But in an effort not to keep you guys until the stroke of midnight on the East Coast, um I'll I'll basically button up the history about Seasma, and then we could talk about all kinds of other fun things. Um so long and short, right? The most important thing is We'll use sign language. What exactly do some of this? When Sisma got into lasers, it wasn't because they wanted to. It was because they needed to. The demand for their machines globally had reached such a point that micro TIG welding, which is principally how links were closed on, say, a cable chain, which just formed wire, wasn't making chain fast enough. So that's where they partnered with the University of Padua to be able to manufacture lasers. So the automatic laser was their main thing to make chain faster. And when they did that, they pioneered their flat top laser beam. And this is the beginning of what starts to set Seasma apart. Mid-2000s, they started advancing their laser engraving systems and to advance CNC diamond cutting with laser. Uh in 2014, they partnered with the second largest manufacturers of lasers in the world, a company named Trump, T-R-U-M-P-F. They're based out of Germany, uh, next to Coherent, who is the single largest, over 20,000 employees. Trump is something around 15, 12 to 15,000 employees. They are a massive industrial corporation. And Sisma partnered that with them in 2014 to develop laser metal fusion. What laser metal fusion is, is basically metal centering. A little bit of a different process. But the the partnership that they developed, and they have a factory about 10 kilometers from where Sisma's headquarters is, where they manufacture the MySint machines, will grow jewelry out of powdered silver, gold, and platinum. There are other machines in the world that will do it with just silver. Cisma and Trump's machines, the MySint machines, will do gold and platinum as well. And they probably display these at the Vicenza show uh three times a year. Uh they also, I will note, as a true manufacturer, they do have two ISO certifications. So this is not an assembly house, right? This is a true red manufacturer distributed in over 30 countries around the world with compliance on energy, conservation, health of their 300 plus employees in their 100,000 square foot factory distributed in over 30 countries around the world. This is a global force to be reckoned with. And if you haven't seen SeizMa, if you haven't heard of Seasma, we guess why and we're at some 10 trade shows years across the domestic U.S. Come see us because you will see why Seizma is who they are. With that being said, let's talk about some other stuff, okay? The importance of having a laser welder, okay? How's that?

SPEAKER_00 27:39

Yeah, for real. Yes. Obviously, yes, we want you to. I know this is gonna be an easy topic for you because I think, and I could I can confidently say if you are a jewelry store in 2026, there's absolutely no reason why you don't have a laser welder. And I want you to go into maybe you the floor is yours again. Um kind of sell if somebody's listening to this, talk to two people. One, they're thinking about getting a laser welder, they know they need it, or maybe even the person that's like, I don't know if I really need a laser welder. And then two, this there's stores that bought in early to the technology, maybe 20 years ago, and they don't realize how much the technology has changed. So if you want to go into kind of touch on those two things, um we'll we'll let you kind of go over that.

SPEAKER_04 28:33

Considering the uh internet crashed three times, talking about the history of Seasma, I would like to move beyond that. So, you know, I want to address both of those points, you know, also relative to kind of the three markets within jewelry that would uh that do utilize lasers, right? So the fabricator, right? When you talk about a laser, the nice thing about a laser is that you have the ability to control this hot light. These are manual solid state systems. Now, what is a laser, right? It's laser amplification through stimulated emission of radiation, right? The sun emits radiation, a laser emits radiation, but what these lasers emit is infrared light. Okay, if you look at the full light spectrum, right? You have ultraviolet light, laser pointer, you have visible light, the grass is green, the sky is blue, and you have infrared light. Okay, infrared light is hot light. These lasers were used in the 70s by the military, of course, not micro, as we're referencing here in jewelry. But when you're talking about its utilization, okay? The fabricator, let's say you're assembling some pieces conventionally, how are you gonna do it? Well, maybe you're gonna have a charcoal board, right? You're gonna try to attack pieces together, you're gonna hold them in place, maybe you're gonna then flow solder, okay? And when you flow solder, right, now you have a strong weld. If something is not perfectly straight, are you gonna be able to just snap it? No, you're probably gonna have to solder, you're gonna have to cut it. But with the advent of lasers, now for fabrication purposes, you can tap, right? Assemble, everything looks good, now you can blow solder. So the fabricator from inception now is going to have a much easier time manufacturing jewelry. If a piece previously took 50 hours, maybe now you can do it in half the amount of time because with a laser, normally with soldering, right? You need to apply flux, right? So you don't get any oxidation. Once you're done applying flux, then you need to pickle to remove, right? Then probably you're gonna have to polish and you're gonna have to polish multiple times through the entire process. A laser, you can moot all of that because you can simply tap, right? So everything is structurally sound, and then flow solder to ultimately make your jewelry. Retailers who do repair work, I cannot preach about the importance of a laser level. Um, I have been in shops where they'll have five jewelers. I've seen a laser for every jeweler. I've also been in factories where I've seen one laser and five people on it. But those facilities might have 10 lasers, 15 lasers, 20 plus lasers. The reason that manufacturers, that retailers, that fabricators have lasers is because time is money and lasers will make you money in one respect of saving you time, in another respect of offering you the ability to do things that you could not otherwise do with a torch. If you have an included emerald set in platinum and you need to rebuild those prompts, yes, you could act out, you know, you could put the piece in a heat set. But platinum gets really hot, you're gonna be wearing platinum welding glasses. You can easily, if there's oil in that emerald, good luck, right? You gotta pull that emerald out. But with the laser, of course, the beauty of it is the accuracy, precision, and spot-driven heat allows you to rebuild a prong without having to pull the stone. But of course, as many know from uh from jump, is that you know, rule number one don't re-tip on a stone, you're not willing to replace it. So there are a number of techniques behind obviously how to best utilize a laser welder. So between fabrication aside, when you're talking about how a laser is utilized in a retail setting for jewelry repair, you could go from everything from a class repair that's gonna have a fine string in it. If you try to heat that thing to fix that class, you're gonna fry the string. That laser is gonna solve that problem. If you have a chain with just a simple break in it, maybe you do have stones nearby, right? There's yes, again, you could, you know, use multiple things as a heat sink, but being able to offer spot welding without any pre-or post cleanup adds for greater efficiency and you can turn that many more jobs over. If you have rings that have uh stones that are heat sensitive, coral, opal, onyx, very, very heat-sensitive stones, right? You can obviously work on them, you could work next to them, you could work with them, but just don't hit them, and you can accomplish jobs obviously at a much greater rate. If you even have costume jewelry come in, costume jewelry is gonna be a pot metal, a base metal, right? You can have lead in there, you can have tin in there. You don't know what you have in there. The minute you put a torch on that, you're gonna be in big trouble. But the laser force allows you to have spot-driven welds to achieve a specific result. Now, related to also manufacturing, I don't know how many manufacturers listen to this, but before the advent of lasers, if you were casting platinum, for those who have cast platinum, platinum is a very difficult metal to cast. It is really, really difficult to not have the pores in a platinum casket, right? The most advanced people of cores have the recipes dialed. But prior to lasers, if you cast platinum and you had a porous piece, it was painstaking. You were driving hammers into that metal to compact the surface. It was incredibly laborious to compact porosity in platinum. Then came margin rollers, hand burnishers, but your forearms would be a lot thicker than mine if you were burnishing platinum all day long. But now with the laser, filling pores is as simple as two welds. Stick wire in, hit the wire to melt it in, it's gonna break it off, and then maybe hit it a second time to blend and burnish that area, and you are done. But also now with the laser, with all these intricate pieces coming out, if you have uh, you know, some of these designs and some of these heads, some of these baskets, and maybe you have some uh some scroll work, maybe you have filigree, mil grain, the laser you can actually utilize to burnish as well, too, to get into those hard-to-reach areas as opposed to thrumming. I could go on and on and on about the utilization with the laser, but I can tell you this the worst time to buy a laser is tomorrow. The best time to buy a laser is yesterday, because the minute you get a laser into your place, it will start making you money from day one. And no tool you will ever own within jewelry will ever make you as much money as a laser welder.

SPEAKER_00 35:18

No, I I mean I I'm definitely not definitely not gonna cut you off at all, but I think you hit the nail on the head. I mean, the the list goes this could be a two-hour long episode if we're just talking about all the ways lasers can help us. I don't know, I know we've talked about it here, but so I think we've maybe even told you. So the way like we're set up is Brad, you started as a watchmaker.

SPEAKER_02 35:44

Right.

SPEAKER_00 35:44

And um, as you can imagine, um seems like you hated that. Sure did. And so I was like, hey, I have this laser here. We've been friends for a long time. And I said, if you can get good at this, like we can really do we can really be efficient, and we have a system, and I know it's not every store's gonna have a different system, but the system we have set up, it just it just works. And to be honest, the torch sometimes will go two or three days. With we don't ever use the torch. In fact, to the point of I'm trying to figure out how, and I figured maybe this was a good time to ask if Adam can just gift me a second a second laser. This is all about if we had, I'm telling you, like, even though it seems like, man, do I really want to spend all that money on another one? I know if I had a second one, we would probably be able to empty our repair basket um way more often. Because in the jewelry world, if you have a bench jeweler, the basket's never empty. And I feel like I honestly feel like if we had two lasers here, we we probably would have a lot of free time. I don't know if that's a good thing or a bad thing. We'd make the same amount of money, we just do it faster, I guess.

SPEAKER_04 36:54

Relative to that, too, though, if a customer comes in and says, Oh, you know, I I want this simple chain repair, we are so backed up, sir, madam, it's gonna be a month before we can touch this. One of two things is gonna happen. One, they're gonna leave it with you. They're gonna wait a month, right? That's great for you, right? You have constant revenue coming in. The fear, in the worst case, I'm gonna take it to your competition. I'm gonna see if they can get it done faster, right? And the objective and what a laser helps ensure within a business is that your cut your customers stay in-house. They don't go. You don't want to give them a reason to go to your competitor. So it will speed up the work. It will ensure that maybe you could shorten your turnaround times on repair work. But again, the the the versatility of them, what they're able to do, the rate at which they're able to do it, the cleanliness that they're able to offer, and of course, what you're able to materialize with the laser. It's an advent to this industry that has completely transformed it for the better.

SPEAKER_00 37:58

Yeah, I think the craziest thing, I think the thing that we just you can't hard I mean, you can quantify it, but it's hard to quantify is like let's just say prong retipping. If if a stone comes in and all the four prongs need to be retipped, how clean it does it, Brad, you can speak into this because now you're doing it all. It does it so quick, it does it so clean.

SPEAKER_02 38:18

Well, at first you don't have to soak, you don't have to clean the jewelry for hours. Yeah. Um you should, but you don't have to. I mean, you definitely don't have to, because we don't. Um uh for torch work, you would have to. Yeah. Um you know, it it's a seamless repair. It it's just clean up.

SPEAKER_00 38:37

You save time on the cleaning before cleanup. You save time on the cleanup after. Yep. And that's usually where like once you get in there with the torch, you can get in and out pretty quickly. And so we used to have an old jeweler we worked with who was like, Oh, I'm faster than the laser. Okay, so maybe maybe he can get in and out with the torch pretty fast, but it had to clean for uh an hour before he worked on it, and then it's got to clean for you know sand shape, and you could just do all that you can shape prongs with the laser.

SPEAKER_01 39:05

Oh yeah.

SPEAKER_00 39:06

Um, I mean it the the list goes on and on. We can't even fit this all and quantify it into an episode. Um and I know I know at some point we are we do have a somewhat of a time limit, even though with the technical difficulties. So I'm hoping actually, Adam, we maybe even have you on a second time in a different way.

SPEAKER_04 39:23

But um somewhere that's not at home, so I was able to internet connection would be ideal.

SPEAKER_00 39:29

Yeah. No, no, no. We're we're gonna do it again. So I I do want to get into that because you said so you're about to head to the IJO show, which are the dates are the 25th through the 28th or something like that. 28th.

SPEAKER_04 39:42

That would be correct. Do you go immediately to the We have a triple threat coming in the next month? Uh this weekend we are at the IJO. I thought so.

SPEAKER_00 39:52

No, no, I was gonna say go ahead and tell us where you're gonna be over the next month or so so people know where to find you.

SPEAKER_04 39:58

Absolutely. Uh, two of the three, unless you're part of already, you're not gonna be able to go, but the third one, of course, is open to all. But we are uh we are members of the IJO, the Independent Jewelers Organization. Uh, we will be in Louisville, Kentucky this weekend. Uh, we're gonna be doing a laser seminar there featuring a Seasma laser welder. Uh, my colleague, dear friend, Scott Isaacs, who many would consider the master laser welder operator. Nobody has the skill sets to rebuild prongs like this gentleman. His business is built upon prong restoration.

SPEAKER_00 40:31

So Scott hasn't met Brad yet. He is not.

SPEAKER_04 40:34

I'm at this Scott will be joining me not only in Louisville, Kentucky this weekend for IJO. He will also be joining me next weekend in Lexington, Kentucky, at RJO, which is the retail jewelers organization. We have a double session we're going to be doing at RJO. And if that's not enough, third week in August, we also partake in the Atlanta Jewelry Show. At the Atlanta Jewelry Show down at the Cobb Galleria, they have the bench fusion. And what that is, is a series of experts coming in, teaching you different applications, techniques about a multitude of tasks within the trade. Uh at Guesswine, we do have a certified seasoned instructor, a dear friend of mine, Matt Lang. Uh, Matt is an incredible human being, and his ability to work with the laser and teach people is unlike anything I've ever witnessed. So Matt is our certified season instructor. We're going to be hosting a session at the Atlanta Jewelry Show at Bench Fusion showing advanced repair technique, how to upsell the customer, how to quantify the pricing given behind these repair costs. Because rest assured, you aren't going by the standard blue book, yellow blue book when you do pricing on laser. It is based on demographic a little bit, but Matt makes a killing on his machine because he knows how to sell the service. And he is a master at the laser. So we have three fun events coming up all in the next month. Um, Seasma just debuted in December. 24 new laser welders. So we've been very hot on the show circuit this year. Uh, but this is kind of the precipice of the season right now. We have back-to-back-to-back seminars. And on behalf of Guestwine, featuring two dear friends of mine, Scott Isaacs and Matt Lang. Um, if you're in IJO, RJO, or looking to come to the Atlantis show, um, you won't believe your eyes. This is this is the future of laser welding. This is the company offering the best. And Guestwine is right here with you.

SPEAKER_00 42:32

Yeah, dude, I have had the pleasure of meeting both Scott and Matt, and I think you are absolutely accurate in what you're saying. Um, one day we can get Brad out here training people because he's on this machine at least seven out of the eight hours a day. And um, and I I I will admit I'm a little jealous because I saw that you guys dropped all these new machines, and I was already considering like, uh, should we should we do a second one? And then I saw the new machines, and uh maybe you can maybe you can tell us why they dropped the new machines or what's different about them. I have the LMD T180, which is an amazing machine, which feels like it's state of the art to this day still right now in 2026. But I'm curious of uh for people that maybe have a seatsman like us, um, what do these new machines have to offer that that might pique our interest?

SPEAKER_04 43:27

So, you know, what I want to do next time is I want to make it like uh, I mean, I was never a big watcher of the Friends TV show, but of course, who doesn't know about friends? You know, but like if we can get together and just like kind of have casual convo. I mean, I have my coffee here and you guys have whiskey, but we should be in the same room, kind of just shooting the breeze about this. Because I I don't want this to feel sales pitchy. I mean, granted, obviously I'm talking to people all day, but I feel like that's kind of programmed in my brain because it's the middle of the day and I'm working. So, next time, thank you for having that sipping with you guys. Make me feel a little bit warmer. At heart. You know, but I I don't want this to be sales titchy because I'm not, that's not me. You know, Dusty, you know me. And it's like, you know, I'm here to show you polite, no pun intended, but I'm not here to force anything down your throat. Like that's just that's not the person I am, you know. But it's relative to I I've told so many of it, you know, an old lady told me many, many years ago, this was at uh before I rejoined uh no, it was not my family business at the time. You know, she goes, Life is not about the fast nickel, it's about the slow dime. And it means really dearly to me, this is never about a sale, right? I mean, yes, I'm a salesman, I'm a sales manager. And so, I mean, that's a a default side effect, but I am a relationship builder. I'd rather make friends. This is a very small industry, and I'd rather know that you know, you know I'm here for you as much as I'm here, or you're here for me as much as I'm here for you. So, with that being said, the new machines are pretty awesome. I mean, who has 24 new machines come out, right? I mean, geez, you know, we got five machines, right? We got three machines. Geez, we just came out with 24 machines, and that's only for jewelry, right? Eight other machines come out for industry as well. And all of these are they're solid state yaks, okay? So, I mean, there are they obviously have fiber machines too for welding applications. Fiber doesn't reach the peak powers that are needed for highly reflective, high thermally conductive alloys, which is why solid state yag is the mainstay globally for working in jewelry. Um you know, it's the biggest advancement, and there's a lot of bells and whistles with these new machines, which is kind of cool. You know, they have all these different accessories to raise and lower your scope and headrests and side tables and auxiliary foot pedals and all these cool things, drop-down trays, I mean, you name it. But for people who know laser welding, the biggest advancement they made in the new systems regards, as we call it at Seasma, the resonator, as other companies may call it, the rail. But what this is, it's kind of the brain and the heart kind of mushed into one, if you will, inside the machine. This rail or resonator is gonna comprise of a flash chamber that houses both a YAG crystal and a flash lamp, it's gonna comprise of lenses and mirrors, and ultimately it's where all the action happens inside the machine before that laser welder comes into the chamber. And so prior to this current machine configuration, the resonator in the seasma machine was two pieces of metal. Imagine an L and an inverted L. And it would come together to make a basically a square box. This box would run the length of the machine. And then Sisma calls it a resonator because when the machine is actively firing, only part of that laser light is actually coming into the chamber. The rest of it is resonating in between two mirrors and the flash chambers. We call it a resonator. But what they did in these new machines, seizure being who they are with RD, they took that resonator to the next level. They're the first in the world to offer now a solid core resonator. Hear me out. Prior to this, right, when you have a resonator, I mean, the biggest thing about a resonator is you're gonna have mirrors in there. And those mirrors are responsible for not only generating the laser beam, right? Generated in the flash chamber, but it's amplified after going off a rear mirror that's 100% reflective, but also for the continual generation of the laser beam. Because the mirror in front of the flash chamber is only partially reflected. So part of that laser light passes through, it's gonna go through a focusing block of a diameter in a 45-degree mirror, it's gonna go through a focusing lens and then down into the chamber. But as the rest of that laser light is bouncing backwards through the add crystal, it's resonating back and forth in the machine. What sees the biggest problem with other resonators, with resonators as a whole, is those mirrors can go out of alignment. Okay. Due to recent A, B, C, or D, whether it's uh a change in the machine, someone hits the machine, maybe there's too much heat generated, and one of the mirrors didn't like it from 15 plus years of having a laser beam, but whatever the case is, right? Mirrors can go out of alignment with laser welders. And so what Sisma did in these new ones, because they manufacture these systems, they have some 25 CNCs and house, they're the first in the world to bring in basically pallets and pallets of solid blocks of aluminum. And no longer are resonators something that is put together like Sisma previously, everybody else out there. Sisma's now the first in the world to mill their resonators out of a solid block of aluminum. So, what that's offering you now is the next generation's stability of the laser source, and in conjunction, mirrors that will never go out of alignment. So it's a problem. If your mirrors go out of alignment, the beam should always be perfectly conical. You should have a round beam generated inside the machine. And if those mirrors slip it on, you start to get, say, something that's oblong. It should be problematic, not only for your end resultant action of welding, but what else is happening inside that flash chamber that you can't see? So if there is excessive light from the laser hitting points that it shouldn't be, you're ultimately gonna start to have problems. Things might start failing, things might break, your mirrors always need to be in alignment because you want to ensure the coherency of the beam when coming to the chamber is giving you that desired result. So Seasma basically took it a step further and said, We're milling our resonators out of a solid block of aluminum. And that's probably technologically speaking, the biggest advancement in these machines. Notably, the ergonomics have not changed, the flat top laser beam has not changed, these machines are very comfortable to sit at. Um, but this solid core resonator is the next generation offering within laser welding systems globally.

SPEAKER_00 49:53

You know, um this might be uh one of the first episodes that I can't wait to rewatch so that I can hear everything Adam said with perfect clarity. I know. Because I'm I'm I'm excited. Um, dude, all right, so this is how I'm not gonna add anything or subtract anything of that because I'm gonna watch it back and try to wrap my brain around it while I contemplate is this the year that I buy a second laser for a two-man shop, which seems crazy, but I think that's what these uh machines can really do for the industry. Um here's how I want to end this, Adam, because you're gonna be at IGO, you're gonna be at RGO, and then of course Atlanta. So there's three opportunities for people to come find you. Let's say that for whatever reason they can't make it to those three things and they want to reach out to you. For one, I know if you don't mind me putting you on the spot, when we do the when you guys do these shows, there is some some specials sometimes that you guys put out there. And so if someone is watching this and they want to reach out to you, how can they reach out to you? And are there any type of um promotions going on in the next month that they need to know about?

SPEAKER_04 51:09

Yes, absolutely. So, yes and yes. Um, my phone follows me everywhere I go. Um, you're not gonna get my cell phone number unless you reach out to me some other way first. So you can call guestline 203-366-5400 and ask for Adam Cassen. You can email me akasson at guesswine.com. That's A-K-A-S-S-O-N at guesswine.com. Um, outside of those two, principally, I do know that, of course, once I do speak with customers, uh, they get my cell phone number, call, text, email, Facebook message. You can find me on Facebook. Uh, people do private message me on there. Uh, you can WhatsApp me. I'm pretty sure that you know there are some Campbell soup cans set up in my house that are certainly on the receiving end of other customers. Um, there's about 50 different ways that people reach out to me. Um, I don't hide. Um, we do a lot of shows a year. So, yeah, certainly uh if you can't make it, if you're not in IJO, if you're not in RJO, maybe you can't make it to Atlanta, but you want to talk to me to maybe find out what's changed with LaserTech now versus what it was 10, 15, 20 plus years ago, or maybe why you should even consider Seasma versus something else out there. Um, I'm always around, right? I I can't hide. Um, we do offer specials, of course, at these trade shows. So for the general public that are not in these exclusive buying groups, um reach out to me because uh you know we do offer a lot, but relative to a lot, there is a lot more to a laser than just buying a machine. Know that service and support has what has kept Guestwine around since 1914. Continuing education with my colleagues like Scott Isaacs, Matt Lang, doing seminars at these shows, but also at Guestwine, offering private instruction. We are full package at Guestwine. We ensure success. We give you multiple modes of support, whether it's through Facebook, personalized training, these classes, or even just calling me. So whatever lasers were 10 years ago, not only have things changed for the better now for a better end user experience, but we guess why ensure that you have multiple points of support so you could become as much and as close to a master in your business as possible with one of our machines. So go Seisma.

SPEAKER_00 53:35

Yeah. Yeah, I I think I want to I want to end with this. For one, I have I have a Seisma machine. This is actually my second uh machine. We bought one of the early models or or a model that didn't have the camera built into it. Um I sold that so that we could hook it up to a wall, which we've talked about on the show before, so I won't I won't belabor that and how uh advantageous that is. But I will say these machines are so um powerful and so simple to operate and to maintain that we literally never need support. But for the couple times when we did, um you guys were you or someone else was very quick to to make sure that we're taken care of. So and I know I know when if you're not if technology is kind of scary to you like it is to me, it was very reassuring to know for one, probably never even have a problem, but if you actually do, someone is gonna be there to help as quickly as they can. Um I have lots of success, success emailing you when needed. Um I know you're a busy man, so I don't expect you know a text message at all hours of the night, but um you seem to be on top of your emails, and so do all the team at Guestwine. Um so I just want to thank you for taking the time to do this. I know the amount of time frame and the technical issues doesn't do it justice, but I think there's gonna be a time we really want to we're trying to get to a place where we can kind of travel maybe to like the Atlanta show and take this show on the road and and interview people like you and people like Scott and Matt. And um, so we're gonna get there, but in the meantime, I mean, thanks so much for doing this. I think it's a wealth of information. I think we just touched, scratched the surface. And so if you have any questions, um definitely reach out to Adam or reach out to us and we can connect you to him or to someone at Guestwine. Um once again, this is not you guys didn't pay us to do this. We just genuinely love your product and we think you're an awesome guy, and that's why we had you on the show. So thank you so much for coming on, Adam.

SPEAKER_04 55:35

With pleasure. You know, just as a footnote, too, of course, and just a thanks to my two colleagues. I do, of course, have to thank the entire Guestwine family for the opportunity here. And also, I and Seisma would not be who we are without our we have the baddest Seisma technical team in the entire. We have a team of technicians behind these machines with coast-to-coast coverage. This is not, this is not me. Yes, yes, I'm the face here. This is a massive group effort. So, to those listening who do have Sisma, know that there is a universe behind the scenes that is always there with you. So we appreciate you all. Dusty and Brad, I can't thank you enough for the opportunity. Uh, we'll get technology straight. I'll I'll call up to uh the motherland and uh find out how we can improve this next time. But thank you so much again for the opportunity and the invitation for that.

SPEAKER_00 56:23

Now, here's the fun part. Um, because it seems like you have limited service, I'm gonna need you to take your cell phone to your roof and leave it up there until this video finishes downloading, because right now it's showing at about 8%. Um it's probably gonna take you a good little bit for all of your audio and video to go to the cloud so that we can pull it and make sure this looks professional and that you sound awesome. So once we're done, if you'll kind of leave that up and running, um, we'll make sure this looks amazing and see if we can't get this uh interview out as quickly as possible. Um, man, Adam, thanks so much. You're the you're the best. You're the goat in the laser industry, and we can't wait to talk to you soon.

SPEAKER_04 57:03

I thank you guys so much again. Thank you, Bench Juler Meems, Dusty Bradch. Thank you so much again.

SPEAKER_00 57:08

All right, sir. You take care. We'll talk to you soon.