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Dr Mohammad Ashiqur Rahman - AI at FIU

Roopinder Tara Season 1 Episode 22

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0:00 | 32:04

We trace FIU’s early bet on AI, the rise of AI-ready engineering education, and why security research must outpace attackers. From LLM jailbreaks to drone resilience, we share how to validate tools, keep fundamentals strong, and deploy AI safely in the real world.

• FIU’s AI strategy across engineering disciplines
• Faculty journey from cybersecurity to AI-driven defense
• Research strength, funding, and emerging tech focus
• AI Summit takeaways from flood modeling to controls
• Quantum threats and post-quantum cryptography
• LLM jailbreak risks and malware generation
• Layered defense and resilience-by-design
• Teaching with AI while preserving fundamentals
• AI minor structure and discipline-specific courses
• Drone security via side-channel sensing and ML
• Adversarial ML in cyber-physical systems
• Affordability, social mobility, and ROI

Welcome And FIU’s AI Ambition

Roopinder

Hello and welcome to Fodez, the Future of Design and Engineering Software Podcast. My name is Rapindertara. On the show, we will have guests that will discuss tools and technology that engineers will find interesting and useful. Thanks for meeting with us. I was very curious to hear about what FIU has to offer. Because tell you the truth, I was a little surprised when I got an email. You guys have a very good marketing program, FIU, saying we have a whole AI program. I had to look up FIU. All we hear about is AI coming out of Stanford and MIT, right? So tell me more about how you got on.

Faculty Roots And Early AI Adoption

SPEAKER_03

I joined FIU 2019. Yeah. So when I joined during that time, I started to see from the day one that we are talking about AI. In the beginning, I joined like electrical and computer engineering, and then I moved to the computer science because they want to inherit all the cybersecurity people there. And it fits me more because I have more like a computer science background. Basically, my undergraduate and everything is computer science. When I was in even in any department, I was seeing that they're trying to see from that 2019, not now, that how they should have AI in their career. Because most of these professors in the research, they need this kind of AI. They're using it many different ways. And as a cybersecurity researcher, I was using it from day one, it's from 2010. Maybe from a different tool point of view, but it was there. Then over the time we have seen like a while computer science is providing the true picture of AI, the basics, the fundamentals, more like algorithmic and different views. But different other departments, especially within this college of engineering and computing, they are having a specialized courses with that particular discipline. That is basically making this thing, like we are well ahead of this, like I think from many other universities in this direction. And I believe their success is also maybe found through their performance in like a research. And we are like uh although we are maybe like a large student in a number, but by age, we are just like uh little over 50 years. But we are doing really good compared to many other universities in the state. We may be in the highest in the power faculty research money in this. We are doing really good. I believe the reason is one of the reasons is we are with the emerging technology. Maybe a little ahead than that.

Research Strength And Emerging Tech Focus

Roopinder

It's just a matter of time if you keep turning out AI ready people into the workforce, especially engineers. I think this is uh you're definitely gonna rise up in the rankings. I don't know if there is a ranking for AI. Tell me about a little bit more about yourself. You were educated initially in Bangladesh, I believe.

Academic Journey Into Cybersecurity And AI

SPEAKER_03

The university is very well known as Bangladesh University of Engineering and Technology. It is considered as the best technology university in Bangladesh. I was there in long years back, maybe 20 years back, in I graduated from the bachelor's, then I did my master's there as a then I bought PUS. Especially I wanted to do like a good quality research, and I thought that this is the best place to do it. I came here in 2010, I started my PhD. It was in cybersecurity because somehow I was very interested from like a beginning. Like I was choosing like, okay, I want to do the PhD in cybersecurity. Although my master's was in distributed system worked towards the networking, but I wanted to move towards cybersecurity. I believe I made a very good decision. That was basically ultimately I am now I can see myself here. And what I used to do during my master, like a PhD, that was the application of formal synthesis, one branch of like artificial intelligence where we use like a formal constraints for decision making. That was my my beginning. During the initial period of time, I didn't use machine learning a lot because they tried to avoid it. But once I become a faculty in 2015, then my students started to use this formal and machine learning together at hybrid. And over the time, more towards the genetic AI and other group of staffs, we are trying to solve different cybersecurity problems. This is basically we work to solve some security problems, residency problems. Now, how is the best way to solve it? Since AI has different branches, and since we do more like a decision-making stuff, more like analytics, we found AI is the perfect tool for us. We have been like my lab have been almost saying more than 10 years of experience in their research. Yeah, I think probably 2010. So you could say more than 15.

Roopinder

Most people don't know it's that old. They just associate AI with ChatGPT. But things are moving very fast. And I you're probably really good at keeping up. Tell me more about this AI summit. How were you presenting? Attending.

AI Summit: Use Cases From Floods To Physics

SPEAKER_03

I was presenting there. One of my colleagues was presenting. I was in orbit late. Yeah, I didn't present because my application was basically AI in cybersecurity. We see the problem in the both like a both like a video actually. But one of my colleagues presented his experience with like AI in his research in the CV, especially like prediction and a few other stuff. He did this. Usually he is doing more like uh physics-based modeling, but he's trying to show like how this AI can be like a part of it. Like AI can be like a source of uh tool, a new tool that can make those analysis more like a practical, maybe like a more like uh efficient when you may not have enough like a background or mathematical model of that system. We also do very similar things, but from a cybersecurity point of view. I was there basically and also mine. We tried to represent Freud International University in that particular like a summit. And we found that people from different like arenas, they came there. Most of them might be more or less like an education point of view, research-driven people were there too. But I really love to see that people are also using AI in athletics, many other fields. Uh as you know, like I try to see that how the training and others, how that actually AI can be a big part of it. I didn't get that point very well, but I didn't like that. The AI is basically AI seems to be everywhere.

Roopinder

You may I don't know if you've seen this movie, it was popular a while back called Moneyball, where uh Brad Pitt played a role of a coach and he was totally into data analytics. And and he created a team of misfits. He got them at bargain rates, but he chose them based on how well they performed according to this really obscure statistics. But I just I think nowadays he would have used AI to do all that.

SPEAKER_03

People are doing that, people are doing that many days before, but may not be exactly AI, but they are trying to do like a data like a but I think AI gives us a pattern with formation of a team that gives us in the long run the best, like a we believe this is many people are doing now.

Roopinder

Now you said your colleague had a shape, like a shape-oriented or shape AI that was able to handle shapes, just like LLMs handle language. He was his AI actually can analyze it.

SPEAKER_03

He's basically the researcher of doing that. But I was trying to say, like one of my colleagues who presented in the app summit, he presented about like a flood monitoring, flood management, how AI can be useful. You just do like a physics-based modeling, but he's trying to show like how AI can be like another tool to do that. So he's basically now trying to use AI. Of course, he's new there, but we are very like happy to see that he's trying to show like how that can be useful. And we thought that people might be more like interested to know that at the time the um agenda was already done. So I did my work there, especially about AI security.

Roopinder

I've got to ask you about security too, because now being a white hat, as it were, in as opposed to a black hat, you have a part that's uh I'm assuming you are a white hat, not a black hat. That you're not on the good side of the hackers and not the bad side. But it's gotta be a really difficult job now, right? Because AI can just like brute force in their way into generating passwords and getting around the normal safeguards, correct?

White Hat Security And Quantum Threats

SPEAKER_03

Fortunately, although in DMA research I was a little bit like a guided, more like a focused on one area, but when I become a faculty throughout the time I have actually widening my area over the time. That makes it easy for me to answer this question. The particular point you are saying, like a password, and this is more like towards the cryptography. What are we starting to was doing post-quantum cryptography? This quantum world, this is why we are going moving forward. So machines have a lot of like a capacity. This brute force for such a like a powerful machine is very simple. The things that the regular machine cannot do in 30 years that this quantum machine can do like a few hours and even less. Our crypto systems are getting like our traditional cryptosystems are getting like um how do they call it balance. So over the time, these quantum machines might be with many people, and especially those national state attackers that is backed by national money. Those attackers can actually spend enough power to get like a many, like a cushioned crypto keys to get into different important systems that might be maybe a national security problem for many countries, including the US. I believe we are working on that. Many people are have like a totally post-quantum signal, like a crypto. So this field is now getting rich, and I believe we are already prepared against such a situation. But AI got AI trying to like make things problem. For example, the thing that you are saying about black hat or something, can AI you know that AI tools that can generate code, right? They can generate code that someone may need stays to create that can create code like in a few seconds candle. It is mostly correctly doing that job mostly. Of course, when you are doing something new, there may be a lot of debugging, many other things might be needed, but your job might be now turned into like a one out of ten, like a I think it will be like a 99% time will be reduced. Ten-day job might be like another two-hour job now, even easier. The people who may not we think that the attackers are intelligent. They are intelligent, they have a lot of technical knowledge, but there can be now attackers who may not have that was not. They're using these AI tools, creating the malware, and then nothing can happen. Use this malware to do launch attacks. That's why this can have like a solution for that. Then I want to talk. Maybe it might be interesting. But the point was, like this GPT tools or other AI tools, they know that this is possible. So they try to create like a fine tuning and others not to give answer to those like a questions, like a manual or something. If such a code they want to have, they want to register through the fine-tuning that also having after, like a lay leader, like a particular plug-in, like a security prompt, understanding that this prompt is not secure. I cannot give this result. But one of our research, we are trying to show that this is not enough. This can be jail, jailbroken. This is very jail-breaking, it's like one of the like a known Hanaviti of large language models. You can ask a question in a different way, but that you start to give answer. Yeah.

Roopinder

You can almost cajole at it and give you the right answer, even though it might not want to.

Jailbreaking LLMs And Malware Risks

SPEAKER_03

That we are showing now, and we have we are almost our work is done. We are going to summit this paper like a very soon, maybe in two weeks. We have shown most of the tools, they can do the job. Almost like a 95% of the time, it was without simple margin, simple, like a simple way to use your brain. Almost like a schooler can do this job, a school boy. Even like a mediated schooler can do that job. It was so simple to do this. But of course, you need to know how to jailbreak. But point is if someone creates this jailbreaking like a generator who will be online, open source, you can use them to create those jailbreaking commands and then get your malware.

Roopinder

Yeah, yeah. Now, I promise I'll get back to the real subject soon, but this is just very interesting. I'm gonna just ask one more question. Security, because it seems to be, especially after listening to you, that the uh the bad guys have the advantage and the good guys are now in the defensive. Would you say that's correct?

SPEAKER_03

I should say somewhere to say yes, but I have also another answer, no. Of course, as like an educator or as like a researcher, our students, we try our best to get ahead of these attackers. Since, of course, this needs funding, many other sources, of course, industry funding, federal agencies, they're also funding us. But this is something that's why recently my research is more mainly LM security. I am doing like how I can make LNM vulnerable. I'm trying to see that, although this looks like a bad personal point of view, but we need to understand the vulnerability so that we can make the thing secure. When I know my like problems, I can I understand how should be the counter layers. That's why this analysis is very important. And my lab name is also like that analytics for cyber defense. To defend, you need to analyze the attack first and understand the vulnerability. I believe if we know these vulnerabilities before the attackers are looking into it, it will be easier to defend earlier. We need to understand the vulnerability before. We should not let them know our vulnerability before us. This is actually the most important part. There is like a zero data that is nobody knows. So we should understand the zero data are not there. Secondly, our system should be resilient against such situations. We may have a difference in depth, different group level of like a checking. For example, the way we are going to get this like a malware by fooling this large language models. We may we can have the way to worse. In the process, maybe large-level models will be in the process several times they are in use. We may have a way to understand that things are not getting well. It is going that route to give up manually. There are some sorts of like understanding intelligence should be there or in new intelligence that can tell us, okay, these things, bad things are going to happen. I think if we can understand our vulnerabilities, our shortcomings earlier than the attackers, we are well ahead then. But truly, we need to spend more effort than attackers because of these AI tools.

Defender’s Mindset And Layered Resilience

Roopinder

Now, about AI and engineering, I gotta preface my question because it wasn't that long ago, maybe only three years ago, Chat GPT was just getting famous that AI was shunned by universities and colleges because it was the way that students cheated. Everyone's using AI to cheat on their essay questions and do their homework. And for a while there, colleges rebelled against use of AI. This was not gonna happen. And here we are, here we are today. And it's being embraced as a as an instructional, as a tool, as just another tool that you could use, like the internet is and the computers were, right? Would you say, how would you say that's happened? And you were there for you were there for the whole this whole time at FIU.

SPEAKER_03

FIU, we are yet not to like allow the students to use the AI tools, but we maybe differently, separately in different courses, the depending on the professor, they're trying to see that how they can like their curriculum or the assignment in a way that using the these tools may not help a lot. Maybe using these tools might be an easier way to search the internet, not giving them the solution. But it is really tough to get there easily. The main challenge, and that was in the also in the AI summit, people are talking about it. Some people are saying that okay, we cannot allow that easily because there are needs basic, because we still say that these tools have um they cannot we cannot depend on them fully. We need to validate before using them. Validate their response. We need to know that what it is and how to validate. How are the points to validate that? Some basic knowledge we must have before knowing that the solution is applicable. Job of ten people, it might be a job of two people now because of these tools, but these two people need to be enough knowledgeable to understand that this is not correct or this is correct. I need to do these changes to make it correct. I cannot rely on it. Hallucination is this is the natural problem of this LLM, these large language models and other stuff. We cannot rely on them when they can hallucinate often. Even if this problem is something that looks very new or something that looks very confusing, they can actually give us an answer. The answer may look good but may not be the right for the particular query. We need the people who know the basics. The hardest part is when we have many courses, many we have many programs even.

Roopinder

Yeah, I think FIU has about what 130 different programs.

Teaching With AI Without Losing Basics

SPEAKER_03

Even for cybersecurity, we have programs AI, cybersecurity in master's level, BS level, and many different things we are doing. And even for AT and others, but all where we try to use AI. We are not if I try to say that AI is not for computer scientists only, AI for all something. So we are trying to like make AI to like a to provide this all the students from who graduating, they will be able to understand what is AI, how to use it, and how to use it. So that's our the goal, and we are actually moving there very quickly, very quickly. I hope that we are doing. But the problem is about this using of chat GPT. The main challenge, how we can make this student to learn. So it will be like a big challenge, but we are going there slowly. We cannot stop that. I see that it is hard to stop. We are trying to have, I believe, more in-person exams, in-person handle things are very useful. When you do handle things, actually you are maybe getting help for chat GPT or something, but things are being made by you. There is some kind of learning is by default there. And also if you can do something in the lab, more if any kind of exam, any kind of essay you need to write on some problem, you are trying to write some problem making, try to give a solution. If they can use their brain, I think that's really important. It doesn't mean the source of information can be from different places. But don't get the solution, get the information that you can you can do the engineering, get your solution back. But I believe we cannot say that you cannot use chat GPT that long. We need to embrace it.

Roopinder

But as an engineer, I have not found I have not found LLMs useful for reliable information. But as a in your school of computer science, though, I imagine it must be extremely, how should I say, tempting that I'm sure a lot of students are generating code that is virtually indistinguishable from code they would generate themselves. I would find it impossible to police that situation. I can understand if you're an English professor and you have them write an essay, and you can tell, hey, this is way too good for this student to have written. But how on earth do you tell that it's generated code from AI?

SPEAKER_03

There are tools to make AI generated things more human. There are tools like that. If these people are spending some time with these students, they know that if I do such things, add this group of patches in my code, it may look like human such a general. The best complex part is done. I shouldn't say it like in on record. That's why we love to see that stressor writing code maybe in front of us, doing solving some problem. Because I read basic knowledge is important to my understanding to validate whether something is wrong, incorrect or not. And also, as a human being, our memories for long most of the time from our childhood to 10 now, we can connect something, and maybe some of our expertise on some of the particular area this works well. But especially but for the large level model, sometimes they are a little bit like at the time they were trained. After that, they can you need to feed the data again to train them for something. At the same time, they can sometimes they forget about the previous thing, very important thing. They are more towards their newer staff, which may not be exact or correct. You judgment is not there a lot. You are very much relying on something, how it is being trained or how it is being like learned about this problem that you just asked that part of that LNF to solve. See, it is giving you an answer. But how I know that can solve my problem, especially for the clinical in the healthcare, for example. They should make it for the patient. Many things are easily possible by this to diagnose on something, but can we rely on them? I don't think it should not be now. If you want to rely, that should be very much fine-tuned, and even there should be doctors to validate that.

Roopinder

I would imagine in your shoes, I would want to write, want to evaluate their code on a different level, like maybe on its elegance, as they say, compactness or its economy or something, some other distinction, because anybody can write basically a program, and AI can probably do it better than a beginning programmer. But there needs to be AI, if used as a tool, should maybe be able to be able to refine the code. You should be able to judge the code. You should be able to point out maybe this differences in structure rather than the code itself. This is like my calculator as opposed to my.

SPEAKER_03

The basics are still there, but they start to use the calculator the way that this happens. I believe basics should be there, but the time frame can be shortened. Maybe they can learn something very quicker than earlier. Maybe four years we need to learn that. They can do it in two years, one year with this kind of situation. But there should be something building block. I don't want to see someone deaf in the top without having this layer that is really dangerous to me. This is malfunctioning, right?

AI Across Disciplines And The AI Minor

Roopinder

Layer is just getting stupid. Where I see this the most is GPS. If I get if I go somewhere using GPS, I'll have absolutely no lay of the land. I will not understand where I am, except for how to get there. Once I get there, I will have lost my sense of direction and I won't know which way is north. I used to be able to do that with maps, but maps, because you have a big picture. I used to get arrive at a place I know where I was in position to the sun and the stars or the compass.

SPEAKER_02

I use the the same problem everyone now. Same problem, just GPS dependent.

Roopinder

So how is it used in the school like school of engineering? I'm a mechanical engineer. So I'm curious if if that's if AI has it all implemented in the disciplines.

SPEAKER_03

Now the idea is that there's like AI minor, AI minor, like a program here. This will be like a 12k tour course. 12k tour course. But not particular department, if you're like a mechanical engineer, at the mechanical engineering student, that student will take nine and three basic things like gener, like a normal machine learning, like generative AI, this group of courses they will take. But one course will be that is specific to mechanical engineering, how to use AI in mechanical engineering. That will give them a degree like with an AI AI or bachelor's student. This is basically happening, I think, by like next year and so.

Roopinder

This is our the disciplines would have a specific course.

SPEAKER_03

This is easier for us to use because if we don't like an answer, I know that I need to change my query. I can give the answer is not correct. It doesn't look like a good dot solved my problem. Some knowledge, I can kind of change, giving more properties, more characteristics in my query to get this like a more world, something that I want. But if someone has like less knowledge, they don't, then it will be really tough. They will rely on what everybody.

Roopinder

And it's not like my calculator, calculator is gonna give me a right answer 100% of the time. I think that quickly that resistance to calculators was went away, like almost over certainly over my four years in school. But I don't it's not like that.

Drone Security: Detection And Recovery

SPEAKER_03

AI can be downright dangerous. Yeah, that's the point. I see an agency is more motivated to Department of Defense or something. They want to see that how your like AI is validated. Some way the results are proven. You can't orally allow to use AI in your control. How you can say that this has been validated or proven to be within the bounding box. Sub research is always trying to see how we can validate or we can say that the results will within our physics. They have some kind of like a safe range where they can run, they can efficiently, they can work, there is no danger in anything. How you can make them safe and secure, so safely you can rely on those AI-driven controls, any kind of like a mechanism to ensure that security, safety is one of the like the research goals that has been like the last three to five years. We have an AI ready graduate. So we want to see that our graduates, DS, RMS, PhD, of course, PhD, they are mostly used like a very much deep AI stuff. They are doing most of them. But our graduates want them to be AI ready. So that these students, when they will go for like a job market and other places, they know they are aware of AI, they know how to use AI, they know how to use AI properly, efficiently. This is our goal. Through the curriculum, we can ensure that, of course, we need like a good people to establish this. When they do the dissertation, their research are very high qualified. They can contribute to the AI, security of AI, resilience of AI, different use cases of AI in different engineering frameworks. Our recent faculty, I can see even in my department, especially of science, we had almost like around six faculty with newly actually joined. So we see them, all of them basically. They are using AI directly, or they are doing research in AI with AI, or they are applying AI in their vacuum research. So this is something by default is happening. And high of they were just fresh graduates. They just did their PhD. So they are built with AI and they came here. Now they will build their students to do like the real contributions in this world of AI. And in my group, we are doing more about applying AI to secure systems. For example, one of our work was drone security. Drone is one kind of cyber physical systems and very emerging technology. If you want to use drone in different critical missions, including even emergent, can have a drone for like a delivery and others, how you can ensure that it is not like uh get compromised. It can be compromised. Many ways this can be possible. Many different resources have shown that from 2014, I believe. They shown that it's possible. GPS is one of them. If your GPS is wrong, given incorrect data, you cannot get to your destination. How you can make them secure. One of the natural ideas was using machine learning and the network layer to make them secure. But we try to go in an even deeper level because our supply chain is not secure. Drone can have a like a compromise hardware. Hardware through not possible. How you can secure it? We need to understand the security lower level. That is where the power electronics, where the motors are working. To understand that we need to use the side channel also. Side channel means your drone when it is underrated, it will be vibrating more. Or maybe it is generating more like a temperature, more heat, or maybe it is creating like a more noise, maybe like a draining, too much like a voltage energy, power. Knowing understand the pattern. Machine learning is to very important. See the simulator pattern recognition, especially social and feature engineering. We can see a drone when it gets like attack, we can detect that. As well as we can understand which kind of attack was it. We can try to rebuild the signal to get it to the original, like a path, as best as possible. So while you are under attack, you might be able to complete your mission. So this is something we call it like a real-time detection and real-time recovery. All those who are possible using AI.

Roopinder

The drone is then capable of detecting an attack and able to counterattack. Or stay on mission at least.

SPEAKER_03

The other part you are doing, this is like the other way. That is, if you are having like a control mechanism, is it is a machine learning better, is it secure? That is what we are doing like also like many times. And we show that you and many people, other people showed that this is not this is vulnerable. If you understand how it is working, how this machine is behaving, this like a machine learning tool, you can get away from there. So we call it the adverse adversarial machine learning. But we did it from a different point of view for cyber physical systems. We showed that different groups of critical systems are vulnerable. You think that you are using machine learning or AI to make things more efficient, but also you are bringing some vulnerability in it. You need to understand your attack resiliency. You need to understand how to make your system more protected against those attacks. So this is very important to know what AI can do at the same time, how AI can be compromised.

Roopinder

I could see a great need in a wartime situation, how that would work in the commercial sector, because you know who would uh who would try to intercept a package delivery robot, for example?

Adversarial ML In Cyber-Physical Systems

SPEAKER_03

For example, it is delivering like a way like iPhone. We're trying to like put our foot very strongly, strongly in different fields, including AI, cybersecurity, and health. And we are really like a there. And AI, as I told you, you see that AI as a minor is like a very good thought, I believe. You are having a like a degree in one particular engineering discipline. At the same time, you are having minor. What is AI ready graduate? The more we can have them in this world of emerging, like the way the AI is everywhere, the more challenges are there, different there. So we need those AI-ready students, graduates, who can tell how it needs to be done, how it can be done, how it can be done properly. So I think we are there. We are using AI in many different fields, including, as I told you in the beginning, flood monitoring, flood management. We are trying to do doing that, how AI can be like a very good source of that. So everywhere we are seeing that AI has a very good application and we are trying to get our food very sorted away.

Roopinder

I saw this on your website. FIU is one of the most affordable schools, which is very important. People always know education has gotten ridiculously high.

SPEAKER_03

And like we are number one in social mobility, we are number one. Really? Yes. In the US, you are number one in social mobility. This is a very important part for us. We're really making change in people's lives.

Roopinder

Social mobility meaning compared to where their families came from, to where they had their degree?

SPEAKER_03

The level of cost they use in during their academic amount of the expense and the money they get when they get this job, very good shape there. The ratio is very good.

Roopinder

And so would the return on investment be that?

SPEAKER_03

It's very high.

Roopinder

Right? Very good. Professor, great talking to you. Have a good rest of the day, and uh I look forward to meeting again.

SPEAKER_03

Thank you. Thanks a lot for having me here.

Closing And Listener Invitation]

Roopinder

My pleasure. Bye-bye. Thank you for listening to Faux Des, the Future of Design and Engineering Software Show, brought to you by Ench Technica. I hope you have learned of a new application or technology that will help you with your job. If you have an application you think would be of interest to other engineers, please let me know by emailing me at repinder at engtechnica dot com or message me on LinkedIn.