The "Wow" Factor: Accelerating Success in Property Media w/ Harman Walia

In this episode, the co-founders of PropMedia and Pixlmob interview Harman Walia, co-founder of Fotello, a leading AI product for real estate media. Harman shares his journey from being a Senior Product Manager at Angie’s List to revolutionizing the real estate photography industry with AI-driven solutions.

The discussion explores Fotello's evolution into a comprehensive "book, edit, deliver" platform designed to simplify workflows and enhance customer value. Harman provides an outsider's tech perspective on industry pain points, the importance of building deep relationships with both realtors and homeowners, and how photographers can leverage AI to scale their businesses and focus on storytelling.

Chapter Markers

• 0:00 - Introduction to the PropMedia Podcast and Harman Walia
• 0:51 - Harman’s journey from University of British Columbia to Fotello
• 2:41 - Transitioning from a Product Manager at Angie’s List to real estate media
• 4:05 - Building a customer-centric business and the "wow factor" of AI
• 6:05 - Surprises and appreciation for the hard-working photography community
• 9:49 - Scaling Fotello from white-glove service to a self-serve platform
• 11:23 - AD: Benefits of Pixlmob and Prop Media Pro membership
• 13:07 - Overview of the Fotello "book, edit, deliver" platform
• 14:26 - Creating a mobile-friendly, frictionless ordering process for realtors
• 16:26 - First principles thinking and innovations in real estate tech
• 20:11 - Deciding on a product roadmap based on customer feedback
• 22:56 - Applying product rigor and relationship building to photography businesses
• 24:50 - The value of engaging with homeowners and telling the home's story
• 30:13 - The future of AI in real estate media: automation vs. human storytelling
• 34:01 - Integrations with 3D tours and other media assets
• 35:54 - Advice for photographers on choosing tools and letting go of control
• 38:12 - What’s next for Fotello: Video creation and quality improvements
• 40:14 - Where to follow Fotello and Harman’s journey

Transcript

SPEAKER_02 0:00

Hey, I'm Maddie. This is Moses. We're the co-founders of propmedia.com and pixelmob.com. This is the Prop Media podcast where we talk about everything around property media.

SPEAKER_00 0:11

Today we're interviewing Harman Wallia, who is one of the co-founders of Fotello, which is one of three different AI products that we host on Pixel Mob itself. We think it's one of the top three products in that space. We're proud to partner with them. And it's a really cool product, lots of end-to-end features and things that they've been developing. And tune in. Thank you so much for having me, partners. I'm excited. Glad you're here. So before we get kind of get rolling into conversation, I think it'd be interesting to hear a little bit where you come from, particularly like you're coming from I mean, you're not that old, University of British Columbia, and to developing in the real estate media space with an AI product. What's what did that journey look like? What's the two-minute version of that?

SPEAKER_03 1:13

I'd always wanted to start a startup. Um and then, but I never found a problem that was um like where customers were just wanting a solution so bad. And then um I had a neighbor who I used to go to the gym every day. Uh that's Ray, who's my co-founder. He had another friend who was a yeah. Cool. I I I think you we you've met him at the MR.

SPEAKER_00 1:36

We've met Ray. I was just cool that you guys just met at the gym randomly. It's pretty nifty.

unknown 1:41

Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 1:43

Yeah. And then he had another friend who was a real estate photographer in Edmonton. And then he was visiting him the same summer and then sharing about the problems that he faced in his business with the consistency, the communication gaps, uh, the delays that we all face sometimes. And then uh Ray was just felt that this could be done using AI. We kept discussing the problems, started cold calling some customers that we knew around Vancouver. And for some reason, every single person that we cold called gave us their time. Right? They were willing to hear uh what we had to say, they were willing to test out the product. And I had built so many products in the past, and I knew how difficult nobody wants to give you the time of day. No, yeah, nobody wants to give you the time of the day. So that was the first indication, right? That people want this solved. And I think we just kept at it, kept making the product better, and uh one thing led to another, and here we are.

SPEAKER_02 2:41

You have a background uh as a product manager with some pretty big name companies, right? Like Angie is Angie's, is that is that right?

SPEAKER_03 2:50

Absolutely. I was a senior PM at Angie's. So if anyone of you has used Angie's list, right? It's one of the OG marketplaces, if you want an electrician, a plumber, or anything, right? You just uh call Angie or request a lead. Um, so it was my team which was responsible for making sure uh when anyone adds in their request, we connect them within 10 minutes to like a uh like a service provider for their needs. So yeah. So I was responsible for that experience of the uh front end and making sure we connected with the right lead. So that was a so I was working with them, I've worked with a few other companies before that.

SPEAKER_02 3:28

I I'm curious what the uh overlap is from your experience in Andy's to Fotello now. What what things have crossed over or what things have been very different from your marketplace experience to because now Fotello, you're providing the solution, right? So you have AI editing, um, you've got some editors that also, but you're not really doing the kind of like marketplace thing. I'm curious what the things have crossed over from your experience.

SPEAKER_03 3:57

In terms of like building products, right, there are a few things that I've learned over the course of my uh career before Fotello. I think first thing is finding a problem that people really want solved. Uh so that's number one. Second is once you've uh built something, how can we sh how can you show them the value as quickly as possible? Right? Like the wow factor. So when people try Fotello for the first time, they upload their photos and within two minutes they see the first edited photos, which used to take like 12 hours before. So that's the wow factor. And on top of that, if they get the perfect window pole, then it it's like second wow factor, they because they had not expected that, right? So how how can we get you as quickly to the wow factor? And then third, thirdly, right, like uh is once you uh like how do you build a business that's really around delivering uh real value? I worked in a lot of companies where uh a lot of the stuff was not really customer-centric in the past. It made it might have made sense for the business, uh, but it didn't make sense for the customer. And one thing that we were very clear from day one is that we wanted to build everything around the customer. So like human revision, so we knew that how important personalization is for every photographer. Uh even after you get the photos, you want to personalize, edit it uh based on your way. So we added a personalization there. But there are so many photographers who join this space who do not know how to edit. So we built an in-house editing team so that if there's anything you want change, you request a revision, we get it to you in two hours. And uh because at the end of the day, right? If the service that you're providing is to make sure that the photos your customers are delivering uh should be perfect, we can only do it with a hybrid model. So we had that from day one. So yeah, I think uh finding a problem that's worth solving, getting to the wow factor quickly, and building the business around the customer.

SPEAKER_02 5:59

Were there any surprises? I mean, you've started to learn this new customer, uh, you've come in from really like a tech background rather than uh having like a real estate media background specifically. You found this uh customer that had a lot of needs. What have been kind of the surprises about this industry and about that customer that maybe you weren't uh expecting, um, but now you're a few years into it and feels different than maybe your expectations?

SPEAKER_03 6:26

Yeah, I mean one and a half years uh into it, so still feels fresh. Um I think the biggest thing that I've learned is uh my dad uh is a is a doctor, right? And I uh he's a surgeon, so I used to like all through when I was growing up, I used to see him like going to the surgeries late at night and then waking up in the morning, sometimes going to surgeries. And I felt like, wow man, this is real hard work, and I should probably bet find something that's isn't that much hard work, and I was like, never want to become a doctor. But now I've spoken to so many real estate photographers, and I uh the appreciation that I've uh developed for this community uh is is just insane. So like you guys, most of the real estate photographers, right, that I've spoken to, like they wake up in the morning, some mostly with anxiety, right? Checking the photos, right? Yeah, and then they uh are like sending all the photos to back to the customers, engaging with their editors overseas. Um after that, they were like doing all of that stuff, barely having time to eat breakfast, spending the entire day in shoots, driving all across the city, like sometimes 50, 60 miles a day, and then coming back late at night, again feeling stressed when you're uploading photos, and will it come right, will it not come right? So I think first is the appreciation that how imp hardworking all the real estate photographers are. Second, uh is how much time that is being spent in all of this work, right? That that shouldn't take that much long time, right? The editing, the engaging with the editor, the engaging with the customer, right? Like the revisions and all of that. So how can we like how much uh time is being spent? Um and I think overall, uh coming from a tech background to this, uh, I never felt that. I think PMRE as a community, right, always made us feel like home. We never felt like outsiders. I I know the first time, right? We when we came to PMRE, and the second uh day our booth, like we just barely uh got time to like speak to each other. We were always speaking to customers, right? And even today, right, like most of my days is spent talking to new customers, talking to existing customers. Uh so I I love uh spending time with customers. I know in the beginning when Fotello you couldn't join Fotelo if you hadn't spoken to me, and that was a lot of the complaint. We fixed that now. Uh but uh I never felt like an outsider. I think on in a different right, it gave us a fresh lens into how things could be done differently, yeah, rather than following the same playbook.

SPEAKER_00 9:06

I mean, I think you should go back to that. Like everyone just has to talk with you because I mean that's that's not a bug, that's a feature. Like that's that's great. I do remember that. And I remember I remember thinking that was a good um I I understand not scalable as you guys continue to grow. But I do remember seeing that and watching you engage at that level with new customers, and and it was impressed that you cared enough to engage in that way. It was it was cool to see. Um, I'm curious on that. So, what what do you do now? So, how have you started to scale that idea? Because you were doing that white white glove. I'm sure you've replaced it with some more scalable mechanisms to get people onboarded well. What does it look like now?

SPEAKER_03 9:48

So, today, right? Uh, we've scaled the editing part, right? So, for editing, right, it's fully self-serve. You just get on, like you upload your listing, you can buy. It's um so that that part is uh fully scalable. I think the now we've started as we built the best editing platform for uh real estate, we kept hearing different problems, right? We kept hearing like, hey, if I now I have to download the photos from here, upload it to my Google Drive, Dropbox, or other platforms, send it to my customer. What if the customer wants changes? What if I want changes after that? So we've like built this new product, and now I'm back to the same grind, right? And now I'm like onboarding customers. Uh if you see my calendar, I'm spending hours and hours just uh onboarding customers to the new platform, right? That we offer now with the booking and delivery, understanding their pain points, uh, understanding how we can like we make that product the best in the space. So even today, uh I think as a product manager, uh right, I I was a product manager before. Uh so a lot of product managers spend a lot of time in like writing PRDs and documents and like working with the engineers and stuff, uh doing surveys with the customers and all of that. But I think there the value that you get talking with one customer day in and day out, I think that's really important. So 50% of my day is spent with on that. And then 50%, I would say, is just like now as the team grows, right? You want to make sure the uh like everyone you hear, everyone and you make sure everyone has their uh the right tools, the right things to make uh meet their needs so that they can do their goals.

SPEAKER_00 11:23

It's that time for our high fidelity, high production value advertisement for Pixel Mob and Prop Media. So today we're talking with Harmon, but one of the things that is exciting about Pixel Mob is that it's a platform. So we have hundreds of editors on the platform. We also have the tons of AI tools on the platforms. Hundreds make up thousands. Yeah, yeah, but fair enough. Okay. You've got lots of different options on the platform and AI tools. One of the unique things about AI tools is that you can switch between them on the Pixel Mob platform. So you can try a la carte, no subscription, or anything like that. You can just go on to Pixel Mob and use Fitello. Try some edits, it's really simple. And then if you're like, hey, this is a great product, but I want it linked into Pixel Mob's ecosystem, then you can sign up for a Prop Media Pro membership, which is an annual membership that is not expensive at all. And it gives you 20% off of any of the AI products on the platform within that membership. So if you want to engage, we would love for you to interact with all of these tools inside of Pixel Mob. And the Prop Media Pro subscription itself will give you both exposure for your business through the Prop Media platform and a discount on your AI editing tools. So, what could be better than that?

SPEAKER_02 12:46

Back to us. Give us kind of an overview of what the Fotello platform is, because some people may have, you know, not checked in since even one PMRE event ago where you were launching and you had AI editing. You do a lot of stuff now. So uh yeah, what is what is the Fotelo platform and what could people expect if they were to go check it out today? Thank you.

SPEAKER_03 13:08

Thank you, Matty. Uh I think Fotelo is now a place where you can simply book, edit, deliver all in one place. So you don't have to pay additional$5,$10 just for delivering the work that you've created. Secondly, you the time that you were spending uploading, downloading, uh requesting revision and all those, right? You don't have to do all of that. So we've lowered the barrier uh to for anyone to start a real estate photography business. Uh and for folks who've been doing real estate photography, we made the customer experience much better. So now their customer, the time that was being spent when the realtor requested revision to them over phone and stuff, right? Now we take care of that for the customer. Um we can uh we built the platform around uh helping them grow the business. Uh so now there's a lot of upsell options, even post-delivery. So for is the only place for real estate photographers where you're not only upselling during the order stage, uh, but also upselling post-delivery. So even once you've delivered, now your customers will be able to buy twilights, uh virtual staging at the price that you set for them. Um yeah, it's a one place where you can book, edit, deliver.

SPEAKER_02 14:26

Yeah. So what is and what does the booking look like?

SPEAKER_03 14:30

I think the pain points in the ordering process was number one, a lot of the realtors are on the go. So they need an ordering process that's easy, that works on mobile. That's uh so that's one. Second, is they always had to create like an account and like had to always schedule a booking, right? There were so much friction points. Sometimes when realtors booking you, they don't know the time that they want to come, right? They have to still uh but they want to book you today, but they might decide the time later. Uh so we've built the ordering process in a way where we've made it mobile friendly, so it so it's the an experience that realtors want to use. Secondly, we've reduced all the friction points. So like uh they don't have to create an account. The scheduling is optional. Uh so those are the three uh the two core things how our ordering process is different uh than others in the space who do that. But it's a very simple, you first you enter the address, you go to products. Uh once you choose the packages, you're up uh they're upsold based on the products that they have selected. After that, they choose their preferred date and time, and then they schedule it.

SPEAKER_02 15:40

Nice. Yeah. Yeah, I think the mobile side, it's so cool. I think on I mean, I haven't been in real estate media that long either. Like uh we started it our our company, North 7th, as a real estate media company in 2020. Yeah, and then Pixel Mob in 22. I always get this wrong, anyways. Uh it hasn't been that long of a journey. Um, but even just in that in that period of time, uh, how much stuff changes, and it's cool to see uh like I remember the first time Ariel was talking about launching uh mobile, and and it was like NHD Photo Hub was doing the same things at kind of a similar time period, and that was a novel like feature ad, kind of right, and then I think what you guys are doing is really interesting because you're coming in from uh with a a tech background, fresh eyes, um, and looking at the problem holistically, not necessarily adopting, you know, like this is the way it has been done, and this is, you know, um and so I think it's coming up with some there are some uh cool innovations that come out of that. Um, going back to that first principles thinking, and um I think you're right. I think uh Moses early on, we were talking about um in North Seventh how people ordered uh in the time they had, you know, realtors when they actually have time.

SPEAKER_00 17:06

It's a really specific time that realtors order their photos.

SPEAKER_02 17:10

Yeah, what is that time? No, you were gonna share. What is the time?

SPEAKER_00 17:13

Basically, it's Harmon wants to know to target some Facebook ads, but that won't work.

SPEAKER_02 17:18

But yeah, it's basically that time when they're on the toilet, is basically when it would when they're booking their photographer. Like they've got that that's about the attention span that they have to do that. So um it's interesting, like uh, yeah, because their days are very busy, and uh, so mobile is a really, I think, important process. And there's a little stuff like that that I think that um photographers like uh they don't spend all day thing. Not this may not be exclusively true because there are definitely photographers that think about this stuff all the time. But um the they they're photographers, you know, and they've got media companies, yeah. And so they're not thinking necessarily about how they're the interactions online and the software, um, but when they see it, they know it. I think that's true. I think they can intuit that that's the this is the way I think that people will interact or I want them to interact with my business. So I think those are good developments, yeah.

SPEAKER_03 18:22

And one thing, right? Uh uh as you said, right? When when they see it, they know it, right? So photographers have a really keen eye for design. I mean it makes sense. Yeah. Uh but uh like it's it's the same, right? When they when anyone sees Fotello's photos for the first time, right? Like that's when they're like, whoa, shit. Like I did not expect that this was possible. And I've seen those reactions like day in and day out, and that's what actually keeps me going. And it's the same with like this new product, right? That we're trying to do. Like when they see the order form for the first time, they're like, wow, this is beautiful. And I think that that's what we want to keep making sure that it's beautiful, it it's elegant, it it's actually meets the level of quality and the craft and the design that photographers um expect from this their brand. Yeah, that's what we try to do.

SPEAKER_02 19:15

I think it's a cool industry um because of the dynamic that you're explaining. I think that um a lot of our customers, we have mutual customer base here. Like they have an eye, they have taste, they have uh, they also are small business owners. And so like they uh and a lot of times they are the photographer, they are the business owner, the manager, they are the webmaster, you know, for their company. So like they're making decisions about how people interact with their company online and showing up and shooting photos, and so um, and what I think is kind of the craziest part, you called this out right at the beginning, is they're super busy in like real estate media is so fast.

SPEAKER_00 20:02

Just like the realtor, they have a very limited time to mess with any kind of technical product, it just has to work, exactly.

SPEAKER_02 20:09

Yeah, and I think you're pipe, you're you're really tapping into that concept that uh yeah, they've got to move quick, they want solutions, they don't want to necessarily make a bunch of decisions, it just needs to it needs to work. You've got an ambitious roadmap, it seems like you're and you're rolling stuff out very aggressively. I think that uh uh you know, over a year and a half you've put out a lot of stuff. How have you decided kind of what that looks like? You started in the AI photography. Did you know that you would go into booking, or did that kind of evolve after kind of seeing that out of conversations, or what does that look like?

SPEAKER_03 20:47

I think that's where meeting every customer really helps, right? When you keep meeting customers, right? Customers like, hey, now I'm now download the photos from here and then send it to uh my customer. And then like sometimes my customer calls me and says, like, hey, can you change this? Can you change that? So what if my customer can request a revision? I the this idea, right? Like, is is not something that we came up with, right? Yeah, like a foot. I I still remember like um uh Vincent from like Vancouver, like we were in in his office, right? And uh he was like, Hey, could you like rather than us requesting revision, could the customer directly request revision? It's like yeah, that that sound that sounds neat, that that makes sense. Um so so I think it's those conversations, right? Like and listening to those pain points uh day in and day out, right? You're like, hey, should we like so does is that a problem? Is that a real problem? You first hear it from one person, but if you keep hearing the same problem again and again, that means it's real and you want to solve it. Uh secondly, does it make sense? Uh would it help the customer if you do that? So I think uh the way it helps the customer, right? We're like, hey, it's the workflow, it's you save the time, and time is the most valuable asset for anyone, especially. Real estate photographers. So now they don't have to download and upload and do all of that stuff. Secondly, it saves money. So they don't have to spend an extra uh like additional fee just to deliver the assets. So I think uh Fotello just essentially just has two goals helping create your best work and save you money. If a problem lies in these two buckets, we'll solve that.

SPEAKER_02 22:28

Nice. I like the simplicity of that. Um what do you think? Um I think what you're you're tapping into is a really powerful business concept. I'm wonder how well how you think that applies if you if you're a real estate photographer today and you wanted to apply that kind of product rigor and that the way you you're talking about working with customers, surveying customers, having those discussions. How how would you apply that kind of product rigor to being a real estate photographer?

SPEAKER_03 23:00

Uh Maddie, that you're asking me this question, but I have no professional realistic photograph screen. So any anything.

SPEAKER_00 23:06

Well that's what makes it an interesting question. Yeah. What's your outsider perspective?

SPEAKER_02 23:11

Yeah, I mean, like you've got a lot of experience building products and you've done it through this process, which I think is really fascinating. A lot of people who are listening to this have never built a software product, but they're listening to what you're saying, and you you talk to customers every day. You know, like is that something that you think crosses the divide in a service business where you know they're uh I mean, you know, obviously people uh photographers get to interact in person every day. Um, what kind of things do you ask your photographer or photographer customers to get the kind of information that's able for you to develop your product that might cross the divide and they might be able to take home and you know, they can make their product surface better.

SPEAKER_03 23:53

No, makes sense, but anything that I say, right, take it with a green shot because but I I think if I was a real estate uh photographer, one thing that I would do is like I would do it more than what I'm doing with this business, right? Uh it's a relationships business. Uh so you rather be spending a lot more time talking to your customers, building those relationships, and actually going a little bit deeper, not just talking to the realtor, but when you're going to the home to shoot a property, right? I would talk to the the seller of the house, right? Like what kind of photos that he's expecting or she's expecting. Right? I would understand like what are they trying to, uh, what do they need? Because a lot of times you'll see that the home, uh the seller of the home has more incentives to sell the homes at the highest price, right? So they'll probably give you deeper, deeper feedback, right? Hey, could you uh take the photos from there? Hey, they'll also buy toilets. So, like, right, because they've never seen toilets. So they'll push their uh like realtor, hey, I w I I want to make sure that I buy toilet. So developing those relationships, not just with the uh realtor, but also sometimes the home seller, if that's possible. Um so that's that's one. Uh second, I I don't think I have a second point. Like I think once you once you start talking to customers, right, then you're like, hey, I could maybe I could change the pricing for this. Uh like a lot of the prices today with real estate photography still, I would say are per photo, right? They're charging per photo. Whereas our intention with Fotello uh was how can we make it more customer-centric? So now for the photographers who are using Fotello, they get like almost unlimited photos, uh 75 and stuff. So, how can you remove that barrier, right? I'm not only gonna deliver you 20 photos, but I'll deliver you like unlimited photos, and unlimited essentially means how much you can sell for that. How much photos do you need to sell that home faster and at the highest price? So you could change your services from like per photo to unlimited model, charge a little bit higher, and differentiate yourself from the competition. So I think those are a few tips that I might have, but uh I'm not the best person. I'm sure you've you've had guests in the who've been here and have shared better advice.

SPEAKER_02 26:19

No, I think it's really helpful. I uh I think you did call out something that I definitely agree with, is it is a relationship business. And I think the more people lean into that, the more their business will create will will find stability. They'll have more we will say sticky customers, they keep coming back, they they are attached to your product. It's a lot harder for a realtor to uh go use another photographer if they like you and they're your friend, you know, like there's uh there's a bit of like guilt to go move on to someone else. There's friction. Yeah, friction, right, sure. But it, you know, you've established a relationship and they also have built trust, hopefully, um, where you know, if they've got a problem, they know that you'll you can fix it. Um, they also, I think something that you called out, I think is really cool idea, um, is really trying to establish um a direct channel with the homeowners in the seller.

SPEAKER_00 27:22

Um, it's hard. That one can be a little dicey too. Because like if you are putting pressure from the homeowner to the realtor and the realtor is your client, well, here's the thing that I was thinking there's some diplomacy in how you do that.

SPEAKER_02 27:34

Oh, absolutely. But the at the end of the day, like there is a benefit, they are there's a lot of pressure from the realtor to make that homeowner happy.

SPEAKER_00 27:44

And if the homeowner feels heard that's the key, yeah. Is if the homeowner's happy, then your clients can be happy. But if you create a window for disappointment, or you create like upsell angst with the seller, I could see the realtor getting a little PO'd about that. Like, yeah, did you order the right thing? Are you really a professional? You don't want those kinds of thoughts for your established relationship with a customer who's actually paying you.

SPEAKER_03 28:11

I don't think like there should be pressure from you to the home uh owner and then to the realtor. I I I think the when you're speaking to the homeowner, they'll probably give you more advice, right? They know the home inside out. Yeah, and they know like so like what to shoot, what what do they care about, right? Like when they have had guests come into their home, they and sat in the sofa. And so they know that what people appreciate, what not.

SPEAKER_00 28:33

So and frankly, like a lot of times realtors unfortunately don't know as much about a house as you might assume they do or wish they would. The homeowner often knows a lot more than the realtor conveys. Like they might know different updates, brand names, different things about their home. And the really cool thing that I think the homeowner usually knows that I don't think would ever run afoul of the realtor is like the story of the home, like how you live in the home. What do they actually enjoy about it? Like the experience of living in the home, be a very rare realtor that takes the time to find that out and relay it to the photographer. But particularly in videography, that kind of storytelling of like I love this little breakfast nook, and this is what I do in my breakfast nook every morning, and this is why I hate to leave this house. That kind of data, if you're telling a story with the photos and the videography, is invaluable. And I would say you rarely are going to get that from the realtor. Um it'd be a unique realtor that's that engaged with the house. Maybe they're engaged with the pricing, they're engaged with the marketing plan, but they're not they're not as engaged with the story the house wants to tell as the as the homeowner would be.

SPEAKER_03 29:49

And I think that shows care, right? Like if you're speaking to the homeowner, like trying to understand the house, trying to tell the right story, that shows that you care to the homeowner, also and more importantly, to the realtor. Yes. Who's hiring?

SPEAKER_00 30:01

Exactly. It it flows through like the opposite of that tension idea. If you're taking great care of the seller, then it makes the realtor look good. Um with their choice of vendors. All right, let's turn turn our attention toward like some more fun and speculative stuff. So we've heard we've heard a lot about uh Fitello. Fitello's a cool product. Um, but where where do you see the industry going? So AI has already been revolutionizing our industry, starting to change things. I am seeing most people pretty excited about that right now. So a lot of AI editing adoption and things like that. But what's interesting to me is like last year around this time, there was actually there was a whole conversation of a lot of fear and anxiety around like photographers getting replaced. And I see less of that right now. I see more excitement about the editing. But what do you what do you think about the space as a whole and what's going to be automated and what's going to be critical for the photographers to really engage with? And what's what's their center in a world that's being actively rocked by artificial intelligence in every every aspect?

SPEAKER_03 31:08

I think there's a lot of usual fear about like AI in real estate photography and in other uh like industries as well. Uh but sometimes I genuinely feel uh that the fear can be a little bit like uncle like there will be some changes, but overall AI is just a technology, right? It it'll be like it's like any tool. So the folks that'll learn to use these tools to their advantage uh will be the ones that'll thrive in this era. Uh so that so that's number one, right? Like it it's not even in like photography, even in software development. So this what we've been able to build, right, in three months with the booking and delivery, like Ario and HD Photo Hub, like and other companies of this, like took years. And that's not because like we are great, right? That's because like we have this AI who is helping our software engineers, who's helping us, dev has accelerated so much. Absolutely. So I think it's the folks who will embrace this technology will be the ones that'll be able to scale their businesses, right? We've had customers, right, uh, who started with us early adopters, right? Who have now tripled their business, four times their business, because they're not spending that time like thinking about editing, thinking about the other stuff. They're spending their time building those relationships, go going out and getting those businesses. Uh so that that's that's the number one. Uh secondly, uh the stuff that'll what will be automated versus what will be not. Um I think there'll always be uh like some automation uh in all aspects of of your workflow. So you'll have some parts of the editing is fully automated now, but then you'll have like uh video editing over time, right? Like videos become like easier to edit. I think that's a pain point that uh a lot of the photographers uh face. Um so we are personally very excited about like how can we how can that be accelerated? Um but like creating and telling those stories, what story to tell? Uh I think how to tell that story. Uh how quickly can you tell that story? Like that, those all are the things that are innately human. Right? Humans in general, right? We are like great storytellers, and photographers are like an epitome of that, right? Like we our whole industry is built around storytelling. Um, so just leaning into the storytelling, how to tell that story uh more effectively, more efficiently, using the tools that are available, uh, building those relationships. I think that would that's what will matter.

SPEAKER_02 33:58

Yeah, absolutely.

SPEAKER_00 33:59

What about other other integrations? Like, so right now you guys are have end-to-end product for photographer, for photographs, for still photography. Do you have plans and like I it seems like it would make sense to start integrating with 3D tours, video, other kinds of workflows. How are you guys thinking about that?

SPEAKER_03 34:22

Even today, you can like regardless of the provider that you're using, Lazillo, Matterport, Cubicasa, iGuide, uh, or any other platforms that are out there, right? You can export your um like assets from there, upload into Fotello, and then deliver that.

SPEAKER_00 34:39

On the delivery side, like you can link to the Matterport and stuff like that.

SPEAKER_03 34:42

Yeah, yeah. We don't build products just for the sake of building. Like we'll not build it, start building like any of these products, right? Because we we like building. I think we'll only we've only built the booking and delivery because we felt that there was a lot of pain and angst around it. Um so if the question's like, hey, will you guys do like this or that? We have no plans of doing that.

SPEAKER_00 35:07

Well, that would be interesting if you're thinking of developing into the spaces, but I was more thinking ways of connecting with them.

SPEAKER_03 35:13

No, we we still we already connect with them, so you can upload your them. Uh automatically connecting is just like of hopefully, right? We'll be able to build those partnerships and you'll be able to do that. But you already can do that.

SPEAKER_00 35:25

Very cool.

SPEAKER_02 35:26

All right. So we've got I've got one kind of uh big question to kind of wrap us up a little bit. Um, photographers, because they are this uh polymath kind of uh customer, they do everything. They're the business owner, they're taking care of taxes, they're taking care of uh they're they're the service provider, they're shooting the photos, they're designing their websites, their business cards, they're delivering donuts, all this stuff, whatever they got to do to get their business going. Uh we've seen this. I'm curious, you're building more and more kind of an all-in-one platform. Uh what's your advice to people about letting go of stuff? When to trust something to do something for you versus when I need to really just you know dig in my heels and I need to be in control of every little thing. Um, I think there's pros and cons to both, but um, I'm sure as you're talking to more and more customers and as you're providing more and more solutions, uh what's your advice to photographers uh that are building a business and picking tools?

SPEAKER_03 36:34

From day one, right? You try all the tools, right? You do the math on the pricing, and uh you you decide on like the quality, the convenience, and the price, and then choose the best one for you. Uh I think a lot of people, right, will listen to uh advice of like the influencers in the space and then just uh sort of like pass that work uh to someone else. Uh but I think there's real value in like actually testing out different stuff and then seeing what works in your workflow. So that that's that's number one. Um secondly, I don't think uh I think people in general, right, are very smart. Uh so over time, people always uh like find like always lean into the product that is the the best, right? Over time, people like will always find like, hey, this is the best quality, this is the best like price, this it isn't the company that I want to stick with longer. Um so I don't have any advice. I think we like real estate photographers, right, are doing so much, so they're like extremely smart individuals, and they uh always make a very smart, smart choice. I think with us, right, there's been a uh like it's a little bit harder to explain our pricing. It's per listing, not per photo. But I think uh we've seen that uh we've never had that challenge. In the beginning, right, it was thing, but over time, right, like customers like always figure out like what's best for them. So no sort of marketing, no sort of thing can change that for them.

SPEAKER_00 38:11

All right. Well, everybody is usually the most interested with tech companies of what's coming next. So what are you excited about that Fitello is gonna be releasing this year?

SPEAKER_03 38:19

Uh let's see. Always dicey.

SPEAKER_00 38:21

Speaking as a tech founder myself, you can't just no, no, no.

SPEAKER_03 38:27

I I mean I I've always been very transparent about everything that we do, right? To not just to you, to everyone that I speak to. Um, so right now the core focus, right, is making sure that we have the best quality um AI photo editing. So that that's number one. Core editing. We want to make sure that's a problem. Yeah yes, the core edit that we do. Uh second, we want to build the world's best booking and delivery platform, right? Like one platform where you can book, edit, deliver all in one place that's built to help you grow your business. So that's like the second piece that we're working on right now. And a lot of customers are using it, helping growing their business three times, four times with that. The third piece is uh something that's uh hopefully is coming in the next few weeks, months is like uh how can we help you create videos? Uh so yeah, I am super stoked about that. And hopefully uh like people like what we are building there. Uh but again, right? Like we'll just just like we did with everything, we'll just listen to customers, get their feedback, like do those calls from like 7 a.m. to 2 a.m. at night, and then ultimately find find out like how to build it the best product. But that's the so that that's what's coming.

SPEAKER_02 39:53

Very exciting, yeah, very cool. You guys are truly uh yeah, innovating, and I think um really getting down to first principles and um doing some cool stuff. So we're excited that Fotello is on our platform and people can uh go try out Fotello edits and um yeah, go see firsthand. If people want to continue to follow the journey and uh find out more about Fotello, what's the place best place to follow along?

SPEAKER_03 40:21

First of all, you can check out Fotello on PixelMob. So, right, like for anyone who just wants to like check out Fotello. It's we are partners with Pixel Mob. I love uh Matty and Moses. Uh met them, one of the first people, right, who made me feel welcome into the community. Uh and then secondly, right, uh you can go to futello.co. You can that that's where you can get like the Twilight, the staging, the book edit, deliver, the entire platform that we've built. Um, and then thirdly, we have like once you're uh if you're signed up with us, we'll probably be sending emails, uh, follow us on socials. Yeah. Those are the few platforms.

SPEAKER_00 40:58

I think what people want to know is where where can they see you and your like TikTok dancing? Like, what's that? What's that handle? Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 41:08

Um sometimes I do that on the footello Instagram actually.

SPEAKER_00 41:11

Okay, hey, there you go. See, that's what people need to check out.

SPEAKER_03 41:14

That's the teams we've been waiting for. Yeah. Sometimes, sometimes I'm forced to. I'm like, hey, I we need some more followers. Let's do that.

SPEAKER_00 41:22

There you go.

SPEAKER_03 41:24

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 41:24

So Instagram is probably best social for you where you're engaged. Instagram. Yes. Nice. Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 41:29

Awesome. Well, thanks so much, Harmon. Appreciate your time and yeah, uh, fitness in between all those customer calls.

SPEAKER_00 41:36

Yeah. Thank you.

SPEAKER_03 41:37

No, thank you both. I'm super excited to be like one of the first partners with you guys and continuing this partnership. And also, uh, like, thank you for sharing this platform where I could uh speak to other uh photographers that might not have heard about Fidello.

SPEAKER_00 41:51

Absolutely. You got it. We appreciate you, Harmon. We'll see you. Take care. Bye. Cheers.