Multiverse of Media: If We Started Over from Scratch - Part 1

What We’d Do Differently Starting a Media Company Today

In this episode of the Prop Media podcast, co-founders Matty and Moses take a deep dive into the "multiverse of madness," reflecting on their journey with North 7th and Pixlmob to discuss how they would approach starting a property media company from scratch today. With the experience of scaling a software platform into over 150 countries, they brainstorm two distinct paths: a high-volume scaling model and a bespoke luxury agency.

Key Topics Discussed:

• Strategic Business Models: Choosing between a volume-based production model geared toward stability and a high-end luxury model focusing on travel and multi-thousand dollar shoots.
• The Power of Location: How choosing the right market—like moving to high-turnover, high-price-point areas such as Florida—can dramatically impact a company's revenue potential.
• Lean Startup Costs: Why you don't need $20,000 to start; the hosts argue for keeping initial gear light—starting with as little as $1,500 to $2,000—and focusing on immediate revenue.
• Targeted Lead Generation: Using data to stack-rank the top agents in your market and building relationships through "warm intros" rather than cold calls.
• Operations & Tech: Selecting an off-the-shelf operating system versus building bespoke delivery platforms for luxury clients.
• Creative Growth Hacks: The "car wash" mentality of selling to those already invested in media and the benefits of partnering with realtors to leverage their existing connections.

Whether you are just picking up your first camera or managing a growing team, this episode provides a strategic roadmap for navigating the property media industry in its current state.

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Transcript

SPEAKER_00 0:00

Hey, I'm Manny. This is Moses. He's Moses.

SPEAKER_02 0:03

Yeah. Yeah. I'm Moses. This is the Prop Media Podcast. We're co-founders of Pixel Mob and Prop Media. And we talk about all things property media. And today we're going to be talking through. So our story, we started with a media company that's called North Seventh. It still exists. We have a manager who runs it for us while we focus on growing Pixel Mob and Prop Media. So we thought it would be interesting to um dive into and argue. We haven't really pregamed this of what we would do differently with everything we know of scaling a software company into 156 different countries. Like it's a pretty big platform at this point. What would we do differently if in a different universe we went back and restarted focusing on a media company? So we hope that's an interesting perspective as we kind of brainstorm this and explore. First up, startup costs. Like what do we actually do with North Seventh? We have both put in like you had a good chunk in, and then I put in some equipment, a little bit of cash, but I think all told we put in it's hard to put a number on actually. It is a little bit, but maybe 20, 30.

SPEAKER_00 1:28

I was gonna say, yeah, it's in that range. Yeah, by the time, yeah, new website. And if I mean this is if you're counting sweat equity, that's another question in uh in that too. The what that time took before actually launching, but yeah, just gear and and it's probably more than I would say you need to start.

SPEAKER_02 1:52

Yeah, I was gonna say we also were coming from different businesses where we were we started with stuff that I don't think I would start with again. So like we started, we inherited a um uh 4K matter port from my previous photography. You had a Mavic Pro. We had what two Mavic Pros, I think. We each brought one of those.

SPEAKER_00 2:11

Like we had a steady cam.

SPEAKER_02 2:14

At the very beginning, you did you'd rented a steady cam.

SPEAKER_00 2:16

No, I I still have it, it's in my closet. Oh never mind.

SPEAKER_02 2:19

We still have the steady cam. Yeah. Um, but that proved to be a lot of overkill. So like we we came with a lot of tech that I don't think we would have needed at all if we were starting. So I mean, real quick, what would we actually what would you actually start with? I don't think it would be much.

SPEAKER_00 2:37

Well, okay, so I think we have to back up and kind of decide on the business model. Like this is what determine what how to answer that question, I think.

SPEAKER_02 2:45

That's fair. So, like one of the things we've explored on this with several different guests is there's two big business models, if you will. One is focusing on raising order value and making the most possible dollars for your time. And then the other is grow yourself out of your business, scale it so other people are doing all of the different functions, and you can step out of it, maybe just summarize them.

SPEAKER_00 3:12

I think there's I think you even categorize it as like scaling. Both of those are scaling businesses, two different kinds of scaling. They're both, they're both good. And then you have lifestyle business, which I I have friends that have a lifestyle business, they kind of joke that like every business is a lifestyle business, and I get what they mean by that. Sure. Um, but the the thing that's different, I think, about what we would fictionally call lifestyle is that its only purpose is to support your lifestyle. Like it's that is yeah, and there is definitely a path where, and I think a lot of people fall in this category. I have a lifestyle and I need to have a job and I need to pay my bills, and that's why I have this business.

SPEAKER_02 3:51

And usually you want a little bit more freedom if you're in the entrepreneurial space and you don't want anybody telling you what to do, but either one can do that. So all right, which of those, if we so North Seventh, I would say falls more in the scale, multiple shooters grow. It's I mean, it's not huge, it's just in like the western part of South Carolina. But we have, I think we have seven shooters um and two administration and administration uh three. There's one virtual and two on-site admin, which is more in the vein of the scaling platform. Yeah, is that I don't know. What would you do? Would you do that again?

SPEAKER_00 4:29

I I don't have anything against it. And it's what I'm gonna say isn't saying I wouldn't do that again. What I think I would rather do is build something that is more quality-based and high luxury and travel and like uh do high-end houses across the world and properties, uh, and build a business that does that exclusively and build a team that is like a super high level. That would be the kind of business I think if I were starting over, that I my ambitions would be geared towards.

SPEAKER_02 4:59

Says the single guy. So the the data five would definitely not go that direction.

SPEAKER_00 5:04

That would be immediately but you could still scale that business. You could I think the best of both worlds, like I think we could build a business that has the volume scale of luxury businesses, you know. Like, I think there's a whole category that's wildly underrepresented for luxury properties, like travel luxury shoes, yeah. I resorts and but and also there's you know, the growing kind of like short-term rental is not exactly, but like there's homeowner-owned rentals like that is growing like crazy that I think is underrepresented that need like super luxury marketing material.

SPEAKER_02 5:44

Okay, well, this will be interesting because I I think I would definitely I would still go toward the production side. Like my my business acumen and and designs more revolve around how do you systematize something for the common Joe, I think. And like you make fun of me all the time because I basically enjoy all food and most movies, and you enjoy five percent of anything you ever eat. Like different, like you have a much more drive toward the like this, needs to be an awesome experience and an awesome product than I do. To me, the awesome product is this is a business that runs itself, yeah. And the breadth of a scaling model is gonna provide a lot more stability that's less likely to pull me away from other things that matter to me um back into the business, I think. And I'm also not a technical like photographer, yeah. So to me, having the uh the stable business, I think, is definitely where I would still be drawn to like we were before.

SPEAKER_00 6:43

What it what if we meet in the middle in in a kind of like volume high-end thing?

SPEAKER_02 6:51

Sure. Well, it's this is a multiverse of madness here, I guess. So sure, why not? Yeah, we'll just scale uh multi-thousand dollar travel shoots just for fun.

SPEAKER_00 6:59

All right. Well, okay, so one of the things that comes up immediately though, here's the thing if you're thinking about starting a like high-end media agency, you have to be where those listings are.

SPEAKER_02 7:11

Yeah. And that would be another point. We couldn't we couldn't well, I don't want to say couldn't. It would be challenging. Part of the reason we we chose what we did is because we were starting in Greenville, South Carolina. Yep. There's not a there's probably less than a hundred properties that sell for over like 1.5 million in our general area per year. And that's up from maybe 20, 10 years ago. So there's just not uh that kind of luxury presence. But you I I think if you were starting it, you wouldn't you wouldn't start it in Greenville.

SPEAKER_00 7:48

No. Here's the thing. I think that if you're in a most people, if they're thinking about starting a real estate media company, they're there's no choice about where that isn't even a part of the equation. Yeah, it's just assumed.

SPEAKER_02 8:03

Yeah, you're just gonna start it where you currently are.

SPEAKER_00 8:05

Where you are, yeah. Yeah, exactly. It's like I'm what are the things I could do? I could start a real estate media business. The question is, well, okay, well, where do we start it? The question is, what do I start? And so they just pick up, and that's we did the exact same thing, right?

SPEAKER_02 8:18

Yeah, and there's absolutely nothing wrong with that. And and I I would say very few entrepreneurs think about the milieu they're gonna start in. But one of my favorite, um, favorite friends that I learned from when I was scaling a real estate brokerage, uh, his name was Ken Pozak. He's now a he's now a huge YouTube like example in real estate space. He moved, had a very successful team in Detroit, where like the the team that I was scaling in South Carolina was doing like between three and four hundred transactions a year. This is real real estate sales in real estate sales, so pre-real estate photography. And then he was doing three, four hundred in Detroit with similar price points or outside of Detroit, but in that area. And then he made the incredibly ballsy decision that he knew he wanted to go do YouTube because this was maybe 10 years ago.

SPEAKER_00 9:12

Wow.

SPEAKER_02 9:13

And he moved his entire family to Orlando because their family loves Disney and he wanted a better backdrop for YouTube scaling, yeah, SEO, like more people search for Orlando than they do for Detroit. Yeah. And he went and restarted his entire business to scale at a dramatically higher price point in a dramatically more attractive area. And that one decision probably changed the revenue of his company by millions and millions of dollars over the last 10 years. So if you aren't thinking about the location and how it impacts your price point, you should.

SPEAKER_00 9:52

It's a massive factor. And I think it's something that I see now that I definitely didn't see. And I made the same assumption when I started. And I think a lot of people that are interested in real estate media look at it because it's something I can start with $1,500, if or maybe even less of an investment in even I don't, there's not a big like skill learning curve, and I can just pick up where I am.

SPEAKER_02 10:21

Just grab the Mike Burke channel and a weekend, and you can probably do a shoot next week.

SPEAKER_00 10:25

Yeah, right. And and you could grow a six-figure business right where you live. And that is a very attractive idea. And I think a lot of people that are in it have kind of started out of that. Um, now having been around it and having talked to hundreds of photographers and seen hundreds of businesses of thousands of businesses, like, and if I had the choice and the things that I've learned about this industry, that'd probably be one of the very most important decisions I'd be thinking about where to do it.

SPEAKER_02 10:55

So, this is what each of us would do. I wouldn't move because there's key things that are anchoring me here. So I would build the best business model for Greenville, which I think would be scale. But if on the flip side you're in a space where you're like, Yeah, I'll totally move to where I'm probably gonna make more money easier by moving to an area that has say a thousand multi-million dollar properties that sell in the Santa Monica area or outside of Boston. Like, why not? Like, if if your goal is designing the right business, that does that would make a ton of sense. If I weren't rooted here, I would totally be thinking about that based on the businesses that I've observed.

SPEAKER_00 11:33

I also think it's not impossible to start a business in another local locality. I think that is possible, particularly not today.

SPEAKER_02 11:41

Yeah, I do think it is pretty hard if you want to it's really it's much more challenging than it seems on paper. Sure. But if you were starting the luxury side, like you're gonna you're gonna move, where are you gonna move to? What's what's your top pick? Where would you move to if you were Fort Lauderdale? Really?

SPEAKER_00 11:58

If for luxury real estate media, I think probably Fort Lauderdale. Okay. Not because I like Fort Lauderdale, but I think is if there was a place to to kick off a career in luxury real estate media, I think that's Florida is a popular place.

SPEAKER_02 12:11

Absolutely.

SPEAKER_00 12:12

I I think it's actually probably I think it's easier to get around. You have constant sunny weather.

SPEAKER_02 12:19

There's also an extreme turnover in the real estate market for Florida.

SPEAKER_00 12:23

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 12:23

Compared to other places because it's uh very transient and retail.

SPEAKER_00 12:27

High average order values. Yeah. Okay.

SPEAKER_02 12:29

So you're you're moving to South Florida and you're starting a bespoke targeting high average order value and scaling because you're you uh luxury brand and you're gonna be flying all over the world. I'm not gonna do that. I'm gonna stay in small town America. I mean, I mean, Greenville's not that small. We're like what 1.5 million or something in our general area, but it's suburban America. So it's it's your normal market. Our average price point is like 300-ish thousand, and our average shoot value, I think, is $250. So to for that business to make a good amount of money, I got to do a a lot of shoots and scale in South Carolina. Yeah, and you maybe have to do less. So, anyway, let's keep going. So there's decision making even about where we start the company that might be different, but that's cool. And what tools would be different? What would you be using if you're starting a company?

SPEAKER_00 13:21

Yeah, I think in a luxury scenario, um Does it change your startup costs? Is it I think it does? I think you do need to make a bigger investment up front on the equipment that you're using. Um, you're shooting 4K, you're very video heavy, um, and you're probably working with um, you know, some pretty high-end customers. And so the expectations there are uh you're gonna show up and you're gonna be doing $1,000, $5,000 shoots, and you're doing a lot less of them in a week, um but you're doing a lot higher average order value, and so the your gear has to match that. So you might be investing $10,000 to get going. I think startup costs, and particularly if you're if you're doing it all on your own. I think uh there's you know, we said, oh, we spent twenty thousand dollars. I think like our our scenario was really weird. Um, and I would definitely not suggest that anyone be spending that amount of money.

SPEAKER_02 14:26

And we I mean some of that money went into other things, go to market and other things too, but it true, but I was I was reading the other day and there was a a proverb that was plant your all your fields first and then build your house. And I actually think I was actually relating that to starting north seventh, was we kind of like sometimes when you're starting an entrepreneurial endeavor, you you want to build all the structures and you want to have all the things and you want to and just like you're hurry up, you're getting ready to get ready to get ready to finally launch and you want it all to be perfect. I just thought the proverb, I never really focused on it or noticed it very much. But I thought it was pretty wise of like, no, start figuring out how to start making revenue, getting return fast, then build your house. You'll have time for both, but get the revenue rolling. So I would keep it frickin' light. Like if I were restarting, I'd probably buy a Sony Alpha and a mini drone and call it a day. That's what I would start with. And probably an Osmo with an iPhone because for production, so all told, if you already have the iPhone, I'm probably spending $1,500, maybe maybe $2,000 if I'm going the next level up on the Sony.

SPEAKER_00 15:42

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 15:42

Like not much uh to get going. And then what I would I think I would really focus on disciplining. If I'm gonna put $2,000 into equipment, I would be thinking immediately, how quickly can I make $2,000 with that equipment? And I'd probably set a goal of can I get can I make it to four grand in the first month? Which in my scenario, that's what? That's only 16 shoots. That's pretty doable. So that's that's a pretty doable immediate ramp goal. Maybe that's too low, but since I'm gonna have to scale, I would be immediately targeting, accepting the low price point and immediately targeting scale.

SPEAKER_00 16:21

Yeah, uh I think it's a lot easier to start from scratch in your business model.

SPEAKER_02 16:27

I think if you're starting luxury, I think that you've got you got a little presence, you gotta fake it till you make it in that space, I think.

SPEAKER_00 16:36

Yeah, that or you need to have made it. I think that's why it's a little bit different. Like you've well, you have to have your restarting. So you're you know, right, yeah, exactly. So how I might handle it would be a little bit different. But I I think if you're jumping into a luxury market, fake it till you make it is a big part of it. But really, the opportunity, I think, is if you if you want to go the luxury route, it actually has a lot more to do with the people and the relationships that you start to build than it is uh having like a super solid portfolio. Now, I'm not saying you don't have that, and I'm not saying that's not important. Just I think there's a lot of rich people that would be okay to let someone try stuff if you've built a relationship and they felt like they believed in you. Um, and if you showed any amount of effort, um there's there's chances you can people take a shot.

SPEAKER_02 17:30

Yeah, well, I think that's one thing that I've learned and I'm continuing to learn in our software scaling space is you get the customers you focus on. I mean, I've learned that in every business that we've ever done. If we were still partnered and you were the boots on the ground in Miami, and I'm helping from Greenville to grow that business, a key piece that I'd be zeroed in on is how do I get the right data of the actual relationships I need to build with agents that shoot the kind of property that I shoot. I think I see a lot of photographers, they just, if they're even doing any active lead generation, it's just how do I get in front of any realtor who can do a shoot? Whereas there's great tools and resources, you can tap into the back end of an MLS, you can use a service like Corded or something like that to actually stack rank agents and see their average price point and all kinds of things. And I would be zeroing in a list in both scenarios, both mine and yours. In mine, I'd be looking at who shoots the most properties. So I'd have a stack ranked, these are my top hundred agents to go after and buy coffee, buy lunch, engage, how can I serve them? And then in your scenario, I wouldn't be looking for volume of listings, I'd be looking for price point.

SPEAKER_01 18:45

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 18:46

And then I would probably be also doing a quality check of going and looking at their listings and zeroing in on which already shoot like high, high production value media. And then I would be testing my scripting on how to go after them and see can I is it easier for me to swing somebody who already does it and give them a value proposition to get them a switch?

SPEAKER_01 19:13

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 19:14

Or is it easier for me, and I'd test this on the first hundred, is it easier for me to go after the ones who don't do high-quality media yet and convince them to drop two grand a package so that they can earn more business?

SPEAKER_00 19:28

I think Zach, our producer for this podcast, like uh turned me onto this phrase about uh, and I'm gonna butcher it, of course, but um it's easier to sell car washes to people who already have clean cars than the people that have dirty cars. Yeah. And it really just kind of comes down to the mentality. You'd think, like, oh, the people who have the dirty car, it's uh logically they're the ones that needs the, but the people who are obsessed with keeping their car clean is more likely to buy the car wash. So I do think it is interesting. Um, yeah, in one sense, it might be easier to go sell the people who already are already made those decisions, invested in in that.

SPEAKER_02 20:06

My money would be that it would be easier to sell to the people who are already already have clean cars, the people who are already doing media, and just figure out your unique value proposition of what's better than what they're currently experiencing. Do you have better availability? Do you have a better price? Do you have a better, better add-ons? Do you have better whatever it is, figuring out why they're gonna make the switch and then go after the ones you already know want the product? Yeah, because it's way easier to convince them that you've got a better product than it is to convince them that they need your product at all.

SPEAKER_01 20:36

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 20:37

Um, and I I think that is a little counterintuitive to a lot of people, but it it also can vary. So if you're in a market where you could play like these are the big boys, and you've got like a a set that also does high-value listings that can afford it, and they want to aspire to this, you could also go after that set and you become their access into this echelon of like, hey, do you wanna you want shoots like this guy? I'll make that happen for you. And I'll like this is like your Hertz approach of we try harder. Like, you're going after them of like, I'm new, I'm great, I can make you shine like these superstars, and you're going after not the top hundred, but you're going after the 100 to 200 agents helping them get up. So I don't know. I tested both. Yeah, and and and part of it for me would be which is more fun to sell? Like some of it for me is the motivation, and this is true for a lot of salespeople, is it's not just the conversion rate or which one works, it's which one do you enjoy doing? And I I think I might actually grab it. I think the one would work better going after the top hundred, yeah. But I think I would have more fun helping the 200 to 100 break into the top hundred, just personally, with some of how I'm wired.

SPEAKER_00 21:52

There's a I mean, the benefit of working with a customer that you are gonna grow is that um. With them in yeah, right. Well, I hope so.

SPEAKER_02 22:04

They're not always loyal, but I more likely to be.

SPEAKER_00 22:06

I one of my my things, I think, after uh doing this for a while is that realtor customers aren't as loyal as you would wish they would be.

SPEAKER_02 22:16

Unfortunately. Well, some some are some are, but many, it's just some are it's a commodity, they need it by tomorrow. If you can't do it by tomorrow, they're gonna go find somebody who can.

SPEAKER_00 22:26

I think what I realized pretty quickly is which I didn't know at all coming into the real estate industry in some small way, was how much turnover there is from agency or from brokerage to brokerage that agents go from Cobalt Banker to Keller Williams to Remax and whatever, like they jump around some of them on like a yearly basis, it seems like. Um, and I feel like that kind of that kind of moving around travels down to like their vendors and stuff like that too. So I don't know, I don't feel overly attached in that way. Um, but I I think if I were thinking about like the customer base, I think there's actually a pretty big opportunity in the broader property media sphere that I started to mention earlier. Um I think I would rather than approaching realtors to start, I'd be approaching maybe like property managers and and agencies that are marketing high dollar rentals, like holiday rental, you know.

SPEAKER_02 23:31

I mean, if you're in a if you're in a big market stuff, that could be a thing to go after, sure.

SPEAKER_00 23:35

In really going into higher production marketing material that's around that you're gonna sell for um a property to build a website around and maybe even be thinking about that kind of for like small businesses, like showcasing their space or yeah. So, I mean, there's company, you know, like Gatlinburg and other parts, you know, other tourist towns that have people coming in and out of their cabins and stuff. Um, they may have an independent website where they're featuring their property because they have a pool and jacuzzi and arcade and a movie theater and all this stuff. Um, and they're high-ticket because they need this video to last for five years. But the thing that's really awesome about real estate media is when you're working with a realtor, is it's this repeat business. So, who are the companies that are representing that kind of property with the same kind of repetitiveness? And so that'd be who I'd be kind of thinking about.

SPEAKER_02 24:36

Tough not to crack, but uh if if you could do it, yeah, that'd be cool. What kind of tech would we use? We we've talked a little bit about business model. We'd probably go slightly different directions. Startup costs would be different, uh, basic tools would be a little bit different. Um organizational tech. What would you be what would you be using? Well, I think this is a I'll answer my own question here. It's a little different because we've scaled a software company. So I think the no-brainer position would be I don't know that we would specifically use an operating system. We would probably build an operating system.

SPEAKER_00 25:13

Yeah, make something bespoke.

SPEAKER_02 25:15

Um but I don't I don't know that that's what most people would do.

SPEAKER_00 25:19

I would not recommend it.

SPEAKER_02 25:20

Yeah, that is a uh a whole can of worms. Um and so barring that, I mean, we started with we actually waited around. Area was just launching, and we kind of waited around for a minute and we didn't launch with them, but we kind of started wait or no did they launch in January?

SPEAKER_00 25:40

We we started right before I'm pretty sure I we we did start with them. I know we started right when they launched, but this was after they had launched, it was their v2 had come out.

SPEAKER_02 25:51

Got it. Yeah, I'm not remembering that completely.

SPEAKER_00 25:54

I I I think I had made a lot of that decisions before we even were really seriously talking. So by the time we got together, I already had a website, I had a name, I had already kind of done the research and figured out about uh operating system at some level for booking and delivery. Um, and so already had kind of some of those decisions made. I think today, I mean, there's so many great options that are just off the shelf and very affordable. You pay per listing, um, pay with very generous free uh tier subscriptions. Like, yeah, if you're starting from scratch, I mean there's so many great ways to go.

SPEAKER_02 26:32

Grab one of them, and I think my best advice would be accept its limitations and just grow.

SPEAKER_00 26:36

Like don't overthink that.

SPEAKER_02 26:37

You it doesn't it doesn't really matter. Um, but yeah, that was a long time ago. Like when we started, HC Photo Hub existed, Area was new, and full frame was dying. Like that was the old yeah, yeah, yeah. The old legacy one. Yeah, um, and and I mean now there's there's lots of great options, yeah. So it's it's interesting to see that develop and kind of commoditize. Uh but yeah, I wouldn't overthink it. Spend half a day looking at which one kind of resonates with you. Do you like all the different features inside HT Photo Hub? Do you like the cleanness and the Zillow integration of Ario? Do you like the uh the workflow? Like Todd spent a lot of time in Spiro's workflow and like the upsale capacity, like they all have their own like vein that they're kind of pushing on, and all of them are great veins, like there's different advantages with each of them. Uh so just figure out which one's you. But here's a question: if you're focusing on luxury, would that point you to one of them as opposed to another one?

SPEAKER_00 27:43

Yeah, I don't know. I I do think once again, I would build something probably entirely bespoke, in part because I think the delivery is a little bit different. Make it different, in particular what I'm talking about. If it's not real estate, I don't think I want people to book in the same way where um you're getting it's not productized in the same way, probably.

SPEAKER_02 28:06

Yeah, it's a little more like you're creating a scope of work and an invoice. Yeah, exactly. And that wouldn't really work well in any of those platforms. No, I would. What's the what's the more generic one that we talk about sometimes? I can't slip in my mind.

SPEAKER_00 28:22

I don't know.

SPEAKER_02 28:23

There's like a generic photography delivery platform. I used it one time.

SPEAKER_00 28:26

Oh, like Pixie Set?

SPEAKER_02 28:27

Yeah, something like that.

SPEAKER_00 28:28

Yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_02 28:29

Um, which I think that does the more bespoke kind of invoicing and things like that.

SPEAKER_00 28:33

Show and tour, I think, is probably an interesting one in if you're in the architectural vein because yeah, it is a delivery-only platform. So that's an interesting path potentially.

SPEAKER_02 28:42

So if you don't want the automated booking component and that doesn't match the vibe of your business, and you're wanting a more bespoke like needs analysis before taking a bid, essentially.

SPEAKER_00 28:54

I would automate as much as I can as far as like the call or whatever that process is, you know, like setting up a call.

SPEAKER_02 29:01

Um but maybe it pops them into a Calendly where it's a 30-minute discovery call rather than a two o'clock on Thursday. Right, exactly. Yeah, which it's interesting. Like you really only see that nowadays in very high-end photography, which is what you're saying you would start. So makes sense.

SPEAKER_00 29:17

Yeah. So your thing through this um from scratch, any impulse on what you'd be doing?

SPEAKER_02 29:25

Other than my uh uh yeah. Well, honestly, if I were starting it today, like I'm not as I'm not vibe coding proficient at all. I'm just starting to explore that. So I would be choosing one of the three. I don't know that I would, I mean, if I had to start it today, I would just use Aerial because I know it. But if I were starting with a little bit of a handicap and I didn't really have a deep knowledge of that product, I would literally probably spend a day, sign up for each of them, yeah, play with them, yeah, have my wife receive an order from each one of them, and then we'd talk about it that night, make the decision the next day, and not look back.

SPEAKER_00 30:00

Yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_02 30:01

Because it it won't functionally make a significant difference in the business. So it's one of those decisions you need to set a time period on it, commit, and go. And switching, I mean, it could be good. Like it could be good for different reasons. There might be a killer feature that you really want to implement, but a lot of times that switch costs, like you're overthinking it. You're thinking it's gonna be a silver bullet when really your silver bullet is you need to talk to more realtors. Like, and you desperately want, like, I'm gonna switch from this one to this one, it's gonna change my business. No, it will not. Yeah, you and you alone will change your business based on your behavior. Yeah, it's rarely gonna be a tool.

SPEAKER_00 30:38

Yeah, I think it's easy. I mean, it's a trap I fall into. I think everyone falls into at some level of overvaluing these really small things that we think is the most important thing when there's just glaring, obvious opportunity in front of you.

SPEAKER_02 30:54

If you just if you just go do it, go talk to someone today, you know, like yeah, but there's a like whole procrastination trap of you're gonna talk about it and you're gonna feel good because you talked about it and you were thinking about it, you're being wise, you're making strategic plans. Yes, go F and do something. Yeah, you'll make a lot more money that way. Yeah, yeah. In fact, truly, I mean, that's that is something we've learned as we've iterate, just put something out there and see what happens, and then if it works, great. If it doesn't, do it again.

SPEAKER_00 31:25

Yeah, try again. Okay, well, we've kind of talked about go to market in that regard, and I think what you're talking about directly applies, but any specific things about how you launch and you actually get customers and build a clientele.

SPEAKER_02 31:41

So that's actually been the most different about scaling Pixel Mob, is everything I've ever sold before has been very sales heavy. Like selling real estate or even selling photography is a sales-focused, relational sales-focused motion. So it's about developing a relationship, and then that relationship eventually closes into a sale of a product. So as a realtor, that was you're selling yourself, your own service. As a photographer, it's you're selling a product, a specific package or something like that, but it all revolves around you're building a relationship. I I don't think I would actually change much if I were starting a new SMB, like a new small business that was going to scale. I wouldn't be reaching for any of the tools we've been stretching into to scale pixel mob. So, like Pixel Mob, we've we've run conference circuits, we've played with Google Ads, we've optimized into regions, Facebook, like there's all kinds of different scaling mechanisms we've used because it's a product focused motion that doesn't have a significant sales cycle. It's just if it makes sense and you want to scale your business, and Pixel Mob looks like a good operating system for all your post-production, then you go make an account on Pixel Mob and you don't actually talk to anybody unless you want to. You get an offer to talk to me if you want to do that. But most people don't, they just go do it.

SPEAKER_00 33:02

Well, there's nothing to close to like just buying a house, you put money in the bank and you buy a thing. Uh you buy photography, you buy photography, and there was a cost to it, and you set a date.

SPEAKER_02 33:14

And that's even doesn't have the same thing. That's even a little bit frustrating with PixMob because, like, how do you design an ad that has a call to action when the call to action might not really apply? When you have editing, use us, right? Really, the call to action is you know, like remember us when you need to edit something. Yeah, but there's not necessarily something immediate that you can buy. Um, yeah, it's it's interesting, it's a little different. So I think I think I would be really tempted to use some of those tools, but I don't think I should. If I were restarting the as a small business, I think I should discipline myself to hold my two grand initial investment accountable and double it and start reinvesting into the business. And I don't think I would touch anything like scaling ads or anything like that until I was making significant revenue. Um, and uh only then do I think I would probably look in that direction, maybe in trying to scale a new location or something similar. Um, but initially, go to market, I think, would be very similar to what we did, which was I was networking with realtors, connecting with realtors. Uh, we had a nice windfall that uh a local photographer was going out of, he wasn't going out of business, he was actually becoming a missionary. And so his entire book of business was in flux. So I started to tap into that and pulled on several like large agents that have been using him, and we pulled them in. And I'd be looking for opportunities and ways to connect, and then I'd try to target in on the agents that do the most listings and just focus on those relationships. I think one big thing that I would do differently is it took us a minute to actually get to doing any kind of brokerage meetings, which like I was actually meeting with our general manager this week, and we were talking, he was talking about I think he wants to really focus on that. He has really high leverage. When I've done those in the past, and he's done some, but when I've done them, like he's like he's poking looking at those and he's like, if I can do it like that, like we still have residual clients from those like brokerage-wide meetings that I did years ago. He's like, they're still faithful clients and they're they're diverse, they're spread across the market. Um Todd has a couple of podcast episodes, uh, Todd uh Kiyamaki, the the founder for Spiro, about that. And he's done that really well with his um real estate media company. And I think I would definitely look at pulling on that faster. I don't know if I'd do that in your scenario or not. I think I would stay focused on the the key luxury agents because the minute you went after the brokerages, you would be diluting that base. Yeah. And I don't know that I would I think I'd stay focused on the agents in your um in your high high dollar model.

SPEAKER_00 36:06

I'm gonna depart from my model for a second and a thought that I've had many times, in part because of my experience with you as a business partner. Like, I'll joke sometimes when people say, Well, how would you start a real estate media business? Like, well, have a real estate uh broker as a business partner, and that worked out really well for me. Worked out pretty well because I'm not an extrovert, I don't like selling. Uh it to me, that's like the least favorite part of my job. Um, however, which I think is a pretty common experience. Yeah, I think that's many people who tune into this. But there is a part of that which I've said kind of tongue in cheek. Um, I think there is a practical way to do this. So um a lot of people kind of are uh it's kind of controversial at some level. Should I give away free uh listen, you know, free photos to build a clientele? And I think it is an effective way to do it, but then everyone in the industry, not everyone, a lot of people who are seasoned hate it because it devalues the the stuff, yeah, the the the services and people's skill and um and it can feel like a race to the bottom. Well, here's an idea. What if if you're already willing to go work for free, why don't you partner with uh a realtor in the area that you can build a relationship with and offer to give them a hundred percent of the commissions that they can of sales, first-time sales. Um, they have all the connections, they have there's 10 people in their brokerage that they can go sit down and have lunch with and sell first time, you know. Um, but then you don't have to do that with one person, you can go do that with 30 people.

SPEAKER_02 37:51

Yeah, that that's a brilliant idea. Um, see if you can get their leveraged connections churning.

SPEAKER_00 37:56

And guess what? They like selling.

SPEAKER_02 37:58

I was just saying, frankly, realtors will do anything for 20 bucks.

SPEAKER_00 38:01

Guess what? They're broke.

SPEAKER_02 38:03

Uh they're not all broke, but 80% of them are pretty broke, but most of them are pretty broke, yeah.

SPEAKER_00 38:09

So I think that if you were if I were starting that kind of like scaling business um anywhere, I like that probably my approach. Um, and the thing is, you can have a little bit more of a relationship with one person because they're in your business with you a little bit now, like yeah, they're kind of bought into what you're doing. They also will give you feedback about your product and what they think you need. One of the cool things about when we partnered, right off the bat, you're like, why don't we have uh free measurements as part of our listing? Which this was Kubikasa existed, but it was at the very earliest stages, right? Not in the same way, yeah. And so there was a value proposition for us that was extremely unique because we actually measured the rooms and gave them a list of all of the rooms that they could just plug into the MLS, and that was something I would have never ever gotten to on my own, but became kind of a pillar for us for a period of time.

SPEAKER_02 39:03

It still is. I periodically talked to Simi of like, I don't know that y'all have to do that anymore for but it's still like it is still a pillar, and he still sells off of just that simple service convenience of something, yeah, main problem. It's not huge, but it's just a simple problem of not just providing the measurements, but talk knowing enough about the industry or talking to enough people about the industry to know that actually putting them in the order of the MLS would make data entry 10 times easier. Yep. It's not hard. I mean, you just have to learn the order one time, but just getting it out there and starting to create a space where it's easier to use North Seventh because of that PDF that they create out of the data. Um, so I think there's there's a lot of people who use North Seventh because of that really simple. I'll get the same-ish photos from both companies, but with North Seventh, I'm gonna do my data entry with about 50% less headache and 20% faster. Um, just because of that conscientiousness and foresight. And if I were doing it again, I would be asking, I haven't been doing active real estate sales in a while. So I would be talking with a dozen agents of like, what would be helpful now?

SPEAKER_01 40:17

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 40:18

Like what would make your life easier that would make you want to use our company? And those are great conversations that if you pitch them right, most people love to have. Yeah. Of because it's pitching, it's it's not less about hey, use my service, and it's more about like, hey, I want to understand your knowledge so that I can be a better provider. Can you give me five minutes for a little bit of feedback on it? Most normal humans, if it's not a particularly if it's not a tacit pitch, and it really is, you want to learn, most people will do that for you. Yeah, it can be a great road in.

SPEAKER_00 40:53

Another great road in, I think, is uh, I think now understanding real estate media, like one before you and I talked, I just called people that I saw on Zillow. I didn't know how agents, I didn't know how brokerages worked. I didn't even know you did that. I did, I cold called. Um you heard it here.

SPEAKER_02 41:12

Maddie cold called people.

SPEAKER_00 41:13

That is, and it was as intense, pretty nerve-wracking. I didn't love doing that. Um, however, I think now understanding some of the dynamic, I would be trying to find people in my network who've sold a house recently and ask who was your agent and ask for an intro to them after it's sold.

SPEAKER_02 41:35

But that's great. That's brilliant.

SPEAKER_00 41:36

Getting a warm intro, actually because they've got in these, like I agents are beholden to their customers. And so there's a part of this that like it's hard. Sometimes it's hard to get, I mean, it's easy to minimize all the stuff that we're talking about today, and like, oh, I'll just go do this and do that. Like, yeah, we're writing blank checks here, like um that we don't have to cash. But like the in these scenarios, I do think there's there is a little bit of leverage with a a realtor because they want to have a great impression with their their customers. And if a customer is like, hey, I want you to talk to my friend, um, they might be more inclined to do that than just a cold call from someone and says, Hey, I want to buy you lunch or coffee.

SPEAKER_02 42:21

Sometimes they might do that, sometimes they won't, but that's a great principle I don't hear people talk about in the space is like when I was when I've been working on different projects like raising funds or or things like that. You there is no option to give away a free shoot. There is no option, there's no cheap hack. There's no like you have to maneuver to get a warm intro, or you're never gonna get past a spam filter. You just won't. You will not get out of the LinkedIn other people send box unless you just do a little bit of research to find somebody else. And you could even do this with other realtors of like you meet one realtor and you'd be like, hey, look at who they know and just call them one day and say, Hey, can I buy you coffee? Can I add value? Offer them. That's where you maybe offer a free shoot. Somebody already shot with you and say, like, hey, could you introduce me to five other agents? Um, and I'd be glad to give you half off your next shoot or something like that. Or I loved your idea of just give them the 100% of the first shoot because it doesn't devalue the industry as a whole. Yeah, it just builds a relationship with that realtor without um diluting the pool for everybody else. Yeah. So I freaking love that. Anyway, we got through like half of this. So I think we may need a part two. Uh well, we'll see. Like, give it some upvotes if you actually would like to hear about what we would think about recruiting, uh, maybe a more mature go to market strategy after you've got your first like hundred thousand in revenue operations, team management, and retention. And customer service. Yeah. So there's a lot. There's a lot there. In fact, I think we've learned a ton about customer service and operations and scaling a team a little bit.

SPEAKER_00 44:08

Even about your product. What we talk about those things too. What are the things you usually offer? The product to offer.

SPEAKER_02 44:13

Yeah. And continue, maybe continuing that same thread between us of what would it look like in a scaling business, which I think is the majority of the industry. And what would it look like in a more boutique focused business?

SPEAKER_00 44:24

All right. So we're going to wrap up there. And if this was helpful and you thought this was a good format, we want to know about it. We're always trying to continue to refine this process and find topics that are hopefully helpful. Um, and we like to bicker and uh brainstorm. So it worked out pretty well for us. So um yeah, please leave us a comment and let us know if this is the kind of thing that uh you enjoy. Um, also, we talk about this kind of stuff all the time on the Prop Media Podcast. So if this was helpful, give us a subscribe and uh you'll get more of this kind of content uh on a weekly basis.

SPEAKER_02 44:58

You have to hit hit the bell, like, and subscribe. That's what all the other podcasts say, I think. So nice. Yeah. Okay. Also, uh, we've got a nice lineup of people we're bringing on the podcast, but it has occurred to us that y'all who listen to this might have some awesome ideas of people you'd like to hear from. So we'd love to use our industry connections to try to connect with people, or if you can introduce us to people that you're like, hey, this person would be great. We don't promise to connect with everyone that is referred. But at the same time, like if there's somebody whose business interests you, like we'd love to try to reach out to them, see if they'd like to be on the podcast, anything along those lines. So if that's you and you've got an idea, or if you're that person and you're like, hey, I've got stuff that I could provide into this conversation that would be helpful to other people, and I'd love to pay it forward in this kind of a format, we'd love to hear from you. So if either of those is real for you, you can reach out to Zach at pixelmob.com, Z A C K at pixelmob.com with your ideas. And we'd love to hear those and see what we can do as we continue to build out the podcast. Thank you, guys.