EP#42 - Callum Norton talks about riding a Ducati at Finke!

We caught up with desert specialist Callum Norton who has just signed with Ducati to race the 2026 Tatts Finke Desert Race! We talk to him about how he went from the #1 KTM team to a brand that has never done Finke, what he's had to do to setup the Ducati to survive Finke plus loads more about his time with KTM, how he transitioned to desert racing and the moment he could've been racing for Kove at Dakar. This is an absolute cracker.

Transcript

SPEAKER_00 0:00

Welcome to the ABB Podcast, where we talk all things dirty with your host visually. We're back with another podcast, uh, and this time we have Callum Norton. Callum is joining us to talk about uh his new deal. I won't say who it is with, we'll kind of introduce it in a second, which is really cool. Um, but yeah, we're gonna talk to Cal. Cal has been racing the desert for quite a few years now. Obviously, he started out at Motocross, so he's got a pretty cool story to tell. Uh, but especially the Fink side is gonna be a really fun thing to chat to him about and the new brand that he's on. Uh but before we do, I will thank our sponsor. It is Dunlop. They uh are sponsoring us with the AT82 tire. Uh, it's a multi-directional tire, so it's got like a different kind of uh traction on one side of the knob to the other. So one side of the knob is designed for hard pack, the other side of the knob of the tire is designed for soft. Uh and so if you're at a racetrack and conditions change, you can actually flip the tire around and you can get different traction depending on the conditions. So big thanks to Dunlop and the AT82. Go check it out, it's an awesome tyre. Uh now, without further ado, I'm going to introduce Callum Norton. Cal, thanks for coming on the podcast. Oh, thank you. Thanks for having me on. Uh, Mark, yes, appreciate it. We were we were chatting uh just before that I think the first time that we kind of met and was a long time ago was 2015, and you came along and did a shootout for us when ADB was based in Victoria um out at Ride Park, and you were saying you might have even been a junior back then, and that's you think that's actually 11 years, 12 nearly 12 years ago.

SPEAKER_01 1:28

It goes so quick. I uh no, I can remember it like that, and um, you know, it feels so so uh close to go, but yeah, it's like oh that's 11 years, it's crazy. And yeah, it's a junior back then, so racing more vote or stuff, but no, it's it's pretty good.

SPEAKER_00 1:44

I remember we had you on we were um Lee Hogan and I were like, okay, who are we gonna get for testers? And and I I think you were on the 450 shootout too, dude. I can't remember what 50 shootout. But either way, you I think you were a junior or you're just coming out of juniors, and Hoags was like, No, no, no, don't worry. He's not built like a junior, he's uh certainly built bigger than a junior, so even if we put him on a 450, it'll work, and from memory it did, you're friggin' you're friggin' ripped. So that's all anyway, it's going back all fair way. But um, mate, we want to talk to you today about your new team because I I first started hearing rumours of this when I'm chatting back and forth with Grabbo and I'm chatting with Jeremy Cowley from the Dirt Bite Bretter podcast, who's buddies with all those guys out there, and you know, rumors, especially out at Alice, they just don't last long out there before someone gets me into something. So we heard yeah, a few couple months ago that, oh, you might be on a red bike, but not the red bike that you think. Uh, and then obviously, um, yeah, a couple guys saw you out there, you've got to pre-run this event. You can't just turn up to think for the first time on a brand new bike and do it for the you for the first time, you'd probably die. So we obviously got wind that you're on a Ducadie, which is you know pretty exciting, pretty wild. That bike's pretty you know fresh to Australia. I know people could only start buying them in the last couple of months. So uh and we I understand Fink takes us a lot of preparation, a lot of setup, a lot of time up there. So mate, it's the Joe Rascal racing uh Ducadie team. Tell us how on earth did you hop onto a Ducadie in like you know, less than or roughly six months out from the race on a bike that had only just turned up. It seems so far-fetched. I would have thought they'd start in a motocross capacity somewhere, maybe not even national, maybe just start in like a state-based level. But they've thrown themselves straight into think. How did this come about?

SPEAKER_01 3:25

Yeah, it's been, as you say, like you know, new brand, new everything. I I honestly didn't know much about the bike at all until I kind of the deal was was sealed. I I looked into it a little a little bit, but didn't get too excited in case things didn't come off. But but yeah, so it all kind of started at the end of last year a little bit. Um just sort of you know, nibbles and little talks and chats. Um obviously I was pretty committed to KTM and have been for a while now. Um and my team with them STA Racing last year, they'd been with them for three years, so it's just kind of everything was you know pretty simple. Um the bike would stay the same. It was just, you know, it would have been kind of easy to stay there, and um, you know, the team was great. But um, you know, met Matty, Brett Metcalf. Um, I was speaking a bit with him, and he was kind of like, oh, this, you know, the Jacati thing, it could. I'm speaking with them, they're keen. Um, they kind of weren't sure on what racing um they wanted to try and get into first. Obviously, as you said, things like you know, extreme. You'd think that bike's gonna need a lot of development, and obviously it will. Um so that's kind of like, oh, could that, you know, that's a bit of a stretch, maybe thinking we could make that happen. Um, so originally their goal was to be ready for like supercross later in the year, um 26 and then 27 go racing. Um and yeah, we chatted over Christmas and I still hadn't signed a deal with with KTM or Jacati with either. Um, and I was kind of like, oh, you know, stay with KTM. It's a you know safe option. I I know the bike, I know the team, everything's good. But just something about Jacati, I don't know what it was, was the brand or the people, um, especially Media, he's been a you know heavily involved. Um, and also my now mechanic I I worked with previously in uh other years too, so I kind of was keen to get back on board with him. Um yeah, it was really through through I'd say Media, my mechanic, they kind of done the groundwork, and then it was just every couple of days relaying info back and forth. Um I didn't ride the bike, I'd done the deal before I'd ridden the bike, so it was just kind of pretty ballsy. Um but I I got the we went down to Melbourne, um, met the crew at Joey Rascal uh in January. Um and yeah, so they got a caddy dealership there in South Melbourne. Um lot of roadbike stuff, obviously the motorbike, yeah, motocross stuff very new. Uh they only had six bikes on the shop floor, and they I think they were the second batch they'd got, so it's it's that new, like it's yeah, not much. Um, but they you know what the goal was, we had you know, obviously sort of six months to build to think. It's not long at all. Obviously, we like to be pretty prepared, so it's like shit, how I can make this happen. Um, but we're able to get bikes. Springham, I'm in Madura now, um, based up here, which is good for desert riding. So I kind of just got my hands on them and thought, right, oh, we won't know until I ride it kind of where we're gonna be at. And the first day I wrote it, I thought, wow, this is impressive. So um I thought we had a shot, and yeah, we kind of, I mean, we were committed from the start, but we thought if things weren't gonna happen, maybe we were gonna have to just, I guess, give a year to nilly development um and push for 27. But the bikes come along really good in a short period. Um, obviously, we're gonna find things along the way, but it's bloody good.

SPEAKER_00 6:38

Yeah. Okay, so I mean, I've got a million questions because you're like you said, there's so much unknown there. Let's start with uh Ducati dealership in South Melbourne. Um, a lot of the dealerships, when I'm I'm based half the time here in Sydney and then the other half at the family cattle farm three hours southwest of Sydney, and I find that the dealers that I liaise with and talk to and go in and see here in Sydney um very different clientele to the dealers that are down near Galburn at our farm and they sell very different machines. So I imagine, like you said, the South Melbourne guys were were pretty focused on road bikes, that's what they'd sell a lot of. How does a dealership that's you know in the city and not exactly near Mildura or certainly not near any desert racing, you know, they're not even you know within three minutes of a motocross track. Um, how do they build a off-road team? Have they pushed out all the development to people who know this and that have an experience in this side of things?

SPEAKER_01 7:30

Yeah, it's it's strange. I mean, come from the city, like you say, to to start a uh I mean any motocross, but even a sync team is insane. Um, it's kind of crazy. But kind of uh really, those guys um obviously are well known, or you know, their their background is is road road racing now or just uh road bikes in general. Um and Joe Raskell also has um its dealerships in Harley Davidson, that's kind of their background. Um, and now I've taken on um Chicaddy. So with that, they really just wanted um there was a lot of interest in Fink because it's such a a big event. Uh this the guy behind um Joe Raskell um behind the team, he really liked the idea of Fink. Um, sort of didn't have much idea on how much it would take development wise, or he kind of threw that in in Medisport to speak with me and if it would be possible. Um so it all he wanted was to know if there was a able to race um Fink. And then he knew a little bit about Hatter, um, not tons, but just knew Fink as you know quite a big one. They really sort of threw it in Medisport, honestly, a bit to run the racing side. Um so that's kind of he's I guess our uh or he is the manager for Joe Raskell um off-road, and I guess if they do motocross and supercross, so he's the guy who's done a lot of the deals with you know sponsors and bits and bobs to make this race team go off-road. Um, as for the road side, that's still you know dealt with uh the guys at Joe Raskell and Jacati. Um they have Joe Rascal has a uh a Harley Davidson bag of World Cup team. So that's just starting this year, I think. So they're into that as well. So they kind of got their feet in a few things. They just, I think they want to try and crack into the scene, whether it's off-road and um on-road. So uh yeah, it's kind of they were interested, keen to have a good crack, um, nice people. But Medi has also done a lot of the work when it's come to uh you know making the off-road scene work. Without him, it would have been probably tough. Those guys probably haven't really seen enough and know enough in the off-road stuff. But I just had maybe belief in him that he, you know, he trusted those guys, and I trusted him, and I've got a good mechanic on board. So I feel like, you know, it's gonna be, it's a it's tough, it's gonna be tough, but I think, you know, give us six months to a year and uh hopefully we're competitive straight away. But I guess um, yeah, we'll find out.

SPEAKER_00 9:54

Um, yeah, that was gonna be my next question. Was okay, so who's spinning spanners on your bike? You was it you and Medi kind of turned around to them and said, we want someone who understands think. It can't just be one of the shop mechanics, it can't be a mechanic that's come, you know, out of road racing only. Um, we want someone you that you're familiar with. Who who's your mechanic and have you worked with him in the past?

SPEAKER_01 10:15

Yes, so my mechanic's um Scott Watts, who he's at Dirt Bike Services, is his company. Um, he's a mechanic for race teams, uh, KTM Honda, and also done two years with Medi on Medis own program. Um, I worked with him for the first time in 2019 with the KDM Desert team. Uh he's done Fink, uh, and then he went off and done some stuff with Honda and Medi for a few years in Rotocross. Um, got to learn you know that game really well. And then it was 23 I approached him um and said, Would you be interested in coming and joining STE racing? And he was keen to make the move. He's from SA or over Adelaide Way. He uh moved to Madura, started his shop up here, which is pretty cool. So he had the side business and uh and he's been part of the STE team kind of his whole time. And I thought, uh, yeah, I said to Mehdi, when we if we're gonna make this deal happen, as you said, we probably need or we do need a guy who's you know been there and done it, seeing kind of how I operate in the desert and and what he knows what works and doesn't work, working with other race teams as well. Um, so and and on the plus side, he also does my suspension. So it's kind of like we've got a mechanic suspension guy, and he you know, he enjoys going to Alice, which is tough. It's a long travel up there, driving up and back, a lot of time away from the shot as well, having someone that can afford to do that. So no, we've yeah, it's kind of us a little uh trio we've got going at the moment, and yeah, hopefully we can make it happen.

SPEAKER_00 11:42

Man, okay, that answers a lot of questions because that yeah, that's probably like you as a punter looking at all kind of unfold, your first question is like, man, like it's obviously one thing to be able to ride Fink, but the next most important thing is to have a mechanic that can set a bike up for Fink. Because you know, we did a feature with GRABO, as I said earlier, uh, on bike setup at Fink. And having known Grabbo for 15 years, and every time we catch up and talk about bikes and bits and pieces, the the chat around thinkups is just nothing like anything you've done. So, yeah, it's really important. It's all it's it's really good to hear, obviously, that you have someone there that's done it for years and years and years. Um takes me to the next question. Are there parts for a Ducati that can work in the desert? We're talking like steggies, have you got a steering dampener, you big tank? Like, I just kind of thought to myself, we sent Jeff Braco to ride this bike over in Italy in July last year. Uh, he had an absolute time, was over there with Willsey and the boys, and they were racing Cairoly. It was friggin' awesome. But um, you know, we we waited for a while for the bikes to turn up. They came back here and I'm bugging Decaddy here in Australia. I'm like, when are they getting here? We want to do more testing here, we've got a dyno we want to stick them on, we want to do all this stuff. And Decaddy, Australia, we're like, we're they're on their way, you know, we're a long way from Europe, and everyone else was getting bikes before us, but they're gonna be here, they're gonna be here. And then, like you said, they arrived six months ago or not, not even um a few months ago now, and I just would have thought we're the only place in the world doing this kind of stuff. We're the only place in the world, with the exception of maybe the US, that are doing you know, think style races. And so to develop parts that work at Fink, like steering dampers, steg pegs, and big tanks, I just thought it takes a year minimum before they're even close. Have you got all those bits that you would have had on your Cato for a Ducaddy?

SPEAKER_01 13:16

Literally, only oh, I'd say a week ago now we've completed the bike. So it's been since I got it, it's it's been about three months of of work to get it to that stage. Um, there's pretty much everything we've got on it, other than I mean, the engine's completely standard. Um the uh like uh piper muffler is at the moment we're running standard, but we'll run an Acropic, uh which will be it's uh like a uh Jacati power part, um, so that we can get our hands on. Um, wheels, some rockets, stuff like that you can get. But when it comes to your bolt-ons, like your steering dampener, steak pegs, um, that kind of stuff, we've had to fully get custom built. So um, like everything we've spent the last three months. We got took the bike into a machine shop up here uh in Madura to Bass, it's called, and he's got a special scan tool, um, all the machining equipment, all the CNC machines, and we've made everything from scratch. So just I mean yeah, eventually it will they will sell stuff. Um, but it's just so new. Like we're kind of the first ones really ride it in these conditions here in Australia, so it's sort of tough, and then just work. I mean, the bike's been great so far, but it's just trying to work out, you know, what it what works well with the bike um in the desert. We're able to get fuel tanks. That was kind of the biggest one. We're like, how are we gonna get a tank? Hell or hair do you even make a tank? So I yeah, IMS uh fuel tanks in America. I seen it was funny, like an Instagram story. I seen them making ones for a Triumph bike, and as in the background, they turned around and I see it seen a Jacaddy, and this was around uh December. And I'm like, oh, so they they do have a jacaddy. I wonder if they're gonna make one. So I uh got my mechanic to he emailed them and they got back to us over the Christmas time and they said, Yep, they'll be done in January, we'll send one out. So we were able to get one. Oh, we've got a couple now, but it's just like lucky, everything's kind of panned along nicely. But steak pegs and steering damper took a couple of months just to fine-tune and get it sorted. But um, yeah, we're pretty lucky. We've got like um our steering damper brackets all sort of made out of aluminium, it's all one piece, and then our steak pegs are pretty cool. I'll have some photos out of them in the next you know, little bit. We sort of had to custom, they're kind of not steak pegs, they're nearly just these things made in the bite. So for now, so it's pretty cool. Um, and then yeah, we're just chicking chipping away at that. Um, we had to get an 18-inch wheel made. They are bringing out an enduro bike. Um, I think it'll be here maybe October-ish, hopefully. Um that'll have an 18-inch standard, but um, yeah, we had JTR, um, John Tippin Rassi make us some nice 18-inch wheels because they just they go in the desert. You were able to ride on a 19 for a little bit, but an 18 for all their tires that we need. Um, yeah, it's there's a lot of little one percenters, but I mean the engine, which was kind of I mean, I know there's a lot that goes into it, but my the most important thing was finding a reliable, you know, strong engine. Um and luckily Jacaddy, which I had hopes that they would, but they built a really nice engine, which is great.

SPEAKER_00 16:22

Yeah, because you know, like again, chatting with so many guys who have done think that um making sure the engine doesn't let go is almost half as hard as making sure you're the first down at Aperchula and back. Um and and you know, I I know chatting with Pricey and chatting with Grabo and chatting with Walshi so many times, they're like, it takes years to learn when to push the bike and when not, and when to listen to it, and when to realize, like, you know what, if I keep going, this thing's gonna give up. So they I can still win if I just back it off like two percent or whatever it is, kind of thing. So yeah, I guess that's the the the big question I guess a lot of people would have for DuCaddy out there. It's a 450, so it's just working a tiny bit harder, maybe, than the 500s that you can get. Um so from all your the pre-running that you've done, all the experience that you've kind of had with it already, um, do you feel like that motor is as fast as a 500 motor? Can it do the top speed? And can Grabbo kind of talked about sometimes he finds with four uh four five hundreds. This being said, he did say this year he reckons a 450 could win it based on whoever the hell he was talking about. This is a couple of months ago, so things might have changed, but he's got no doubt that a 450 can can win it, and he thinks this year a 450 could win it. But um he's just mentioned, you know, between the rollers and that kind of talk that a 500 can carry, it just helps a little bit. And he said it doesn't spin up as fast uh between the whoops, which can kind of offset your rear end. How are you finding the 450 factor on the Ducaddy and how are you finding that motor as a new motor out at racing in the desert?

SPEAKER_01 17:52

Exactly that. Um, it's quite a bit different. Um, I'd say like overall power is is great on the Ducaddy, but it's quite a bit different. The 500 or the KPM 500, it's really torky. Um, as Grabow mentioned, and as you said, just the you know, the talking top gear or fifth, sixth gear in between the whoops, I think it's just you know, it's it's got no drama for for power there. There's always you know something to pull you out of trouble. I was a little bit unsure on how you know the power curve would kind of be on a 450 if it revved up too quick, or it was how how it would all run out really fast, or um, you know, but it's it's been it's quite a nice built engine. It's different maybe to some Honda's or Yamaha 450. It's quite a smooth um bottom end on the bike, and it really suits luckily, um suits the desert quite well. The mid to top end of the um power is really, really good. It revs out quite a long way, even with standard gearing, which has been awesome. Um, the gearbox is really nice. Third, fourth, and fifth are quite long. Um, once we geared it up, it's even better again. Um put a 14 standard 13 front rocket, which is good for your motocross and stuff, but we put a 14 straight on and um yeah, just changed the whole feel of the bike straight away, which was a great positive. But yeah, top speed is good. I'd say 500. If we were to go for K's and K's, the 500 is definitely gonna eventually outdo it. What I do like about the bike is it's from zero to a hundred is awesome. Um, the pull is beautiful off the bottom. Um, it's just the gearbox ratio being a five speed compared to a six speed, it just feels like you can rev the gears out a little longer and and really let it rev. Um, and then also getting from say 100 to 140, that sometimes a 500, they got great torque, but they just sort of feel like they're taking a while to wind out and get there, which this thing does definitely get there quite quick, which is is awesome, but not to where it's too revvy. Um, I think keeping the motor pretty standard, the package that they built is quite a nice, smooth kind of power. But it's for a 450, it's fast. I thought getting on it, I'm like, wow, this is impressive. Um, and not just saying that because I'm you know a Jacaddy man, but it's it's honestly I've ridden a few different brands over the years and mates liked it. And I thought, wow, the the power is really nice. They've spent their time and um, you know, done a great engine. And I think good for what we're doing, which is yeah, a bit of a bonus.

SPEAKER_00 20:19

Yeah, well, Grabo uh Braco said the same thing when he went over to Italy to ride it. He said it's deceptively fast. He's like, it's not like some of the other brands out there that you turn the throttle and you feel like it's gonna rip your arms out. It's it's linear, but he's like you can it flies. He even said that um he was uh like Wilsie and Kairoli when they're at the launch were kind of like matching each other for speed, and he goes, I know how fast Wilsie can go, and it looked like he was going just as fast on a stock Ducati at a launch, you know, overseeing three hours of sleep as he does on his bikes at home. So he said it's yeah, it exactly what you said, deceptive, because it's got so much talk and it's so linear that power. Um, I liked that you got a tank out of an Instagram post where you saw him turn around and you saw Ducaddy there. I mean, like it's oh 2026, hey, it's like, oh what the hell, there's something I can get a part for. Um, but that's I mean, like this just that side of things must have been when you signed the deal with Ducaddy. Was there any concern or worry that like you know you've been so competitive out at Fink, you've been runner up, you know what it takes to win or to be to be runner up at Fink. Was there any concern at all that like, oh, if I do this and we can't get certain bits and pieces, I'm either not racing think or I'm gonna go to Fink and I'm gonna come 15th because I couldn't get a tank and that means I've got to stop extra stop more times?

SPEAKER_01 21:37

Yeah, definitely. Um that you know, I went through a lot of that and I kinda made sure I had hopes that we we'd be able to get stuff, but obviously at the very start, it was kind of like not touch and go, but a little bit, are we able gonna be able to? Um, but once I kind of Christmas rolled round, we found out a bit of information about the fuel tanks, and I thought, you know, we can you know get steak peg stuff kind of made. And steering down, and I thought, yeah, that's we could probably do that. Um, it was really it's just like simple stuff. Even the tires we run at Alice Springs. I run um in the past, I've run like a big Michelin desert tire, and they're 140 wide compared to a normal motocross tire that's a 110 or a 120. Putting that in, it can sometimes is a Jacati made to fit that tire. I don't, I didn't know. Um, is it gonna pull the you know the gear and we want to run up there? Um, just is it gonna be even built to go fast? Like, is it gonna be twitchy or um so it's just little things I'm like, oh, this is it could be a lot of work. But I just something about Jacati as a tract in me. Um working with Medi, I know he's in a different, whole different sort of um, you know, uh what do you call area, like motocross supercross background discipline. Um, but just you know, he's a clever guy, he's really good with testing. Uh, and just even with my riding in general and general training um and guidance, he's just done a lot in his career. I thought it could be someone good to team up with and um, you know, sort of take him up to think and see what he thinks of it. I think Hadder will probably get a bit more out of medi, like as in with my riding, he's a great fan writer, and that motocross kind of transitions into that. But for Fink, I think he'll um, you know, have his little say here and there and see what he can pick up and help me. Um, but yeah, there was definitely a lot that went through my head. And as we said earlier, KTM was probably going to be the safe place to stay. And we knew the bike worked well. Um, but I just something attracted me with Jacaddy and the people were really good straight away. They were keen, they wanted to, you know, make it happen and maybe decide to I could be the first one here to sort of do well on one's kind of attract in as well. Um, to try and, you know, you also could be the one that fails first, but you could be the one that you know does well on it. So that was kind of like, oh, that could be cool. So um yeah, I'm just keen to um yeah, keep progressing every sort of month. We've got you know, we're getting big gains, getting a lot better, getting comfortable on the bike. I made sure I did a month of just sort of learning it and rode it dead stock, stock gear and stuff, everything, just to learn how the bike feels. And we slowly added to it, which is it's been good. Um, really good. So yeah, enjoying that.

SPEAKER_00 24:12

Yeah, yeah, because you know, to the SDA KDM team were you know, have been you've been so successful there and um they've got so much experience out there. I can understand that would have been a tricky one to be like, oh man, I'm I'm walking away from like, you know, not a sure thing, but like a sure thing of a top five, maybe a top three, maybe a win with this team. We know how good they are, onto a team where they're doing this for the first time. So you know, I think that takes a lot of balls to just go, like, you know, I back my ability, but also I back the experience. You know, life is short, and you know, you might have gone another year with KDM where something else out of your control happened and it meant you missed out on winning or you missed out on a podium or whatever it was. Um, you know, so yeah, life is short, and sometimes you've got to make those calls where you're like, this is a cool opportunity. You're right, you could be the first person to do really well on a DuCaddy in Australia, and at an event like Fink, it's like you know, it's that's it's that's it's one thing to win or to do well at a round of ProMX or a round of AEC or something. It's another thing to do really well at Fink, I think, personally. So uh yeah, it's uh it's cool to see you step out like that. Talk us, you just mentioned the team um and the people in and around the team. What how is the vibe at Ducadie versus the vibe at KDM? Like we said, they're kind of new to the off-road racing scene. Obviously, Medis not, but like I assume you're dealing with people from Ducaddy Australia, you're obviously dealing with Joe Rascal's group over there. Is it more relaxed? Are they more what how is it different? How does Ducati different differ to KDM?

SPEAKER_01 25:39

Yeah, it's it's a cool vibe. Um, you know, everyone's pretty new to the whole, as we said, to the whole off-road racing. So they've kind of thrown it in my court a little bit. Like I I feel like obviously I'm I'm riding um and you know I gotta really concentrate on doing that part. But also, you know, any ideas I have with the bike or with the team or what we need to make happen, they're kind of like, well, you know, what do you need? Let us know and we can try and make it happen, which is cool. Um, I feel like they, you know, sort of trust, trust, have good trust in me to do that and um, you know, believe I can do well, which is pretty awesome to have, you know, a brand like that back me. Um, but yeah, Jacati Australia been, you know, getting more and more involved. Um, we've got good support from them. Um met some you know, guys from Jacaddy on the weekend down at the ProMex. We went and sort of caught up with those guys and um you know met them in person because it's always you know it's nice to talk on the phone, but it's good to speak in person and see um, you know, show them the vision we have and show them the bike. And yeah, no, they were they're really, really positive towards Think and the desert racing that I want to do. Um, they think it's you know it's great for the yeah, what we're doing. And um, yeah, and then the Joe Russell guys that they're cool dudes, um, really nice. Uh the dealership down there in South Melbourne. A lot of those guys get involved and um, you know, want to come to the events or go to the road racing stuff. So it'd be cool to show them a whole different side to it. Um a few of them come from you know different dealerships and stuff and have seen a little bit of it, but a lot are gonna be very, you know, raw to the to the pink side of things. Which would be cool to take them there and send them down the service road or whatever. Show them what it's like. So no, yeah, it's exciting now. I think it'll be good. Um, we're gonna I'll pull a bit of crew in from you know, even my family, uh get my dad involved a little bit because he's you know seen it since I was really little and been pretty involved with SPE. So he's got good experience. Bring him in and um, you know, he can organize a fuel stop or whatever needs doing. And just there's a lot of one percenters, as everyone knows, it goes into think with yeah, having a good crew, everyone you know is on the same page and knows what's going down because it and then obviously we camp down here enough to fill out the night, so we've got to have a good setup there and yeah, get back. It'll be a small crew, but you know, hopefully we're you know got it all covered, and um that'll be great.

SPEAKER_00 27:57

Is there anything about your setup on the Ducaddy that might be different to how you've set up KDMs, etc., in the past? Obviously, a PDS rear and the KDM is going to be a different setup to um, I'm pretty sure you guys are running EXEs to how you're you know running a instead of a cross country, how you're running the Ducati with a linkage. Um and you know, having talked to a lot of guys who do a lot of bike setup out there, they talk about the rear end being lower than it would be, say if you're racing off-roads and having a higher front end, which you know, they talk about a bike that works at Fink works nowhere else. It's just a very unique bike. Um, is there anything about the Ducati? Have you tried to mimic similar-ish setups on the other brands that you've been on out in the desert, be it Husky or Cato or whoever else?

SPEAKER_01 28:38

Um, yeah, there's definitely some similarities. Um, as you said, I was on PDS the last or three to four years I've been on that. I have ridden linkage with Husky and Cherko um and Honda at the very beginning of my fix-up. Um, so done a little bit on that, but the last yeah three or four years have been PDS. Um, so it was definitely different. The just the feel is the PDS is quite active and and soft um initially for so quite good for Think um and handles the high speed quite well. Uh but the Jacati, it we've probably run it a little bit higher in the rear um than what I would with a KTM. For some reason, I always like the KTM quite low in the rear, and it just seems to work up there at Think. This is maybe a little bit more neutral, not quite motocross spec, but maybe meets in the middle a little more. The bike seems to work well there. Uh, wheelbait has been funny, like we've been playing quite a lot with a long bike, short bike. Um, you'd naturally think a long bike up there would work well just with the high speeds, but we found sometimes, yeah, not super long, sort of in the middle is pretty good. Um, triple clamp offset is different on a Kacadi. It's 20 mil offset instead of a KTM is is 22 standard. So it's only two mil, but it makes a bit of a difference. Um, so just playing with all that is being quite a not a challenge, but just different. It the bike's more sensitive to things that the KTM's not, but it works better in spots that the KTM didn't. So it's kind of you know, better in spots but worse in spots, so it's kind of trying to marry that together. Um, also not getting caught up in the KTM too much, trying to get it to feel like that because it's always going to be a different buy. Um, so trying to do that, but it's been really positive. I we've done a few settings now, but it's pretty simple stuff. Um, just trying to keep it as simple as we can for our first year. I think trying to get new parts straight away and um, you know, whatever comes up, grab it like aftermarket stuff. I think trying to keep it as stock as we can and just really learn how the bike, you know, likes to be um is is being good um and not jumping at anything too quickly. But obviously there's gonna be stuff that we do need is gonna make a big difference. But stock is good so far. Um enjoying that. Um, and yeah, just keen to get more. It's been a lot of testing, a lot of that, you know, 70 to 80 percent riding just to get everything set up. We've done I've done some fast stuff, no doubt, but just keen to get closer to the event, do some longer runs and um and see how we can perform over a you know a longer distance. But no, it's been really positive.

SPEAKER_00 31:14

Um you talked about getting the bike longer uh without you know uh swing arm adjustments, major swing arm changes and frame changes and bits and pieces. You do you get that out of just longer chain and move the um axle blocks back kind of thing as far as they can go?

SPEAKER_01 31:29

Exactly that. We've we've actually milled out the back of the swing arm a little a little bit, only just to what we can without going too crazy and having nothing, no meat left. Um just to get it a little bit longer. Um naturally the bikes the last I've found the last few years, everything's kind of got more motocrossy feel, more stiff aggressive kind of feel to it. Um, whether it's KTM Honda, all of them have gone that way, which they handle awesome in those conditions. It's just think it's trying to get them to feel as soft and plush and um comfortable as we can. Everything seems to be getting a little bit more yeah, short and twitchy over the last few years. So uh especially a 23 KDM AXE was my last year on that shaped bike. And since then everything's got a little bit more different. Um, but no, we we've done that. I've been riding a lot of M Lajura doing HADA training. We found the bike works well with more of a shorter wheelbase here, just to get it to turn and um it still handles the rough stuff really good. But up at Fink we're still kind of trying stuff. Also, gearings come a lot into play because sometimes you want to run a long wheelbase, but to pull that gear in it it won't work, or you need to run a different sprocket so the wheel comes forward, or vice versa. You want to run it in the middle, but to run the sprocket you want, it's back. So um it's kind of playing with 15s and 14 front sprockets to get that to marry into wheelbase. Um, it's just a lot of little yeah, things you sometimes you we've we've got it really set up really well suspension-wise, but I want to change the gearing and then changes my wheelbase, which changes how much sag I got, and it just it's amazing. A couple of mil can change that whole feel so much. Um, it's probably too fussy us right, isn't it?

SPEAKER_00 33:13

Mate, when you when you're doing 189 Ks an hour or 185 Ks an hour, you want to know that the bike's doing exactly what you want it to do.

SPEAKER_01 33:21

Yeah, 100%. Yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_00 33:23

Hey, okay, so what's the Decaddy presence gonna look like at Fink? Are we talking, do they have a truck, a van, uh uh high lux? Um, and then what's it gonna, you know, that like you mentioned a little bit earlier, logistics at Fink are the biggest challenge, and you need to kind of know what you're doing in terms of getting someone down there to meet you at the other end. If your plan, which I'm gonna ask you in a second, is to finish in the top 10 or the top five or whatever it is, you can't just be getting down the other end with a ute, rolling the swag out, going to bed, waking up in the morning. You need, you know, the ice bars, you need some nutrition going into your body. Like, if you're gonna be competitive, we've seen what it takes to get you down there and back. What's the Decaddy setup? What can people expect for Fink and down, uh well, for Alice and down at Fink?

SPEAKER_01 34:04

Yeah, so lucky with uh with Medi on board, he's got a nice big, big trailer, like uh kind of like a wheelery looking trailer. Um he's used that with his Go 24 Pelotaki setup in the past. So we'll keep him that um we'll get that fully kitted out um with Ducati and all our new sponsors on board. So that'll be like our our uh Alice Springs end setup, have that for the Friday night, and um we'll leave that there over the weekend for sort of workout of until a week go racing. Um think end we'll just run vans and newts and um you know, sort of pig tents and all that. I still take try and take, like you said, an ice bath and things that I need. Um yeah, still working out, you know, who's cooking who's you know, whatever else. But we've got got our people just nominating their job, I guess. Um I'm a bit of a funny bugger when it comes to food, so I've can't eat some things and can eat other things, but a lot of just pre-prep meals and things like that for down at FinCend. But and then fuel stops is you know a whole nother, not problem, but a whole nother thing in itself, trying to have you don't need too many guys, but you need at least sort of three to five guys and at least maybe one mechanic each stop that really knows the bike well. Um, if because if we have a problem, obviously I can do a little bit, but it's nice to always have someone there that you know can um can take over and do it and I can just concentrate on getting ready to go again if we do have a problem. Um, but yeah, we we've got um you know a good team um sizing up, which is good. As I said, probably get some family involved that have been there and got experience there as well. Um and maybe steal a few guys from around Madura that have just have experience in racing and that kind of style of racing. Um but yeah, as for uh as for a setup, we'll have a you know nice big trailer and um yeah, it'll look look pretty tricked with all the caddy on there and maybe take up some, I don't know, bike-wise yet. Hadder, I think we'll um being closer to uh Madura, we uh to Melbourne, we might have some some road bikes up on display and have a bit of a cool setup. So be uh be good. Joe Raskell are you know they're pretty keen on their merch and and all their uh show bikes and stuff. So we'll definitely try and have uh a bit for you guys to look at anyway.

SPEAKER_00 36:11

I reckon, mate, that that's gonna be the biggest thing for Joe Raskell and Decaddy is that you guys are gonna stand out like dog's balls at Fink, especially because like not many people would have even seen the bike, period, like the stock bike, let alone your modified think bike. So, and you know, Decaddy is read, it's been so well talked about amongst amongst the media and on social media and bits and pieces about what to expect from this bike and how it's going with Kairoli behind it. It just gets even more press. So it's cool to hear that there's gonna be a good presence up there, and especially out at Hatter as well, for people to come up, chat to you, have a look at the bike, and and yeah, it'd be a good opportunity for Joe Raskell to get other bikes under the tent so people can come and sit on them and look on them and just uh build the brand. Um so you mentioned before too that their plan was originally, and what seemed to probably make most sense to most people was to maybe jump into some supercross or maybe even a little bit of motocross first, but say supercross at the end of this year and then launch into things next year. Um, we know you come from a motocross supercross background. Is there a chance? Not on the Think Bike, but we'll see you on a um on a Ducaddy, the Desmo, the normal Desmo at Supercross at the end of the year, just to turn up and spin some laps to see if you can get through a heat.

SPEAKER_01 37:21

I've half mentioned it, but dad always said it. He'd love to see me back doing it. Um, obviously they'll have their you know their main guys, whoever they sign. Um but I would like I'd I'd like to at least do some motocross. I I do miss it. Um, I miss you know that scene and just racing. That's a lot of racing, it's more racing. Um the desert stuff gets you know, it's only a few events, so you only got a couple of chances to perform each year, but a lot of training goes into that. But yeah, for sure. I think you know that was always the team's goal was to be ready for supercross. Um, it was more realistic, they could get some information off the AMA guys, and um, you know, it was just the bike definitely will be developed by then. Medi is also a great test rider for that, so they just have you know, they can stack days and be ready. So um, yeah, I'll I'll uh bit hard chat and be uh might be a billing guy, no, but yeah, yeah, maybe uh maybe some some state level motocross or just some stuff to get some more info on the bike. Um I'd like to do a national, I don't know which one. Um, but uh I don't want to be the guy to let the end of that game since I haven't been there for a while. But I would like to. It's definitely I still ride a bit of that and I still feel like I can go reasonably fast. So hopefully, you know, maybe whether it's um later in the year, I think we'll get Fink and Hatter. Um, you know, that's kind of the important one on my schedule, get them out of the way and then look towards maybe a national or something. But yeah, those guys they'll have a I guess they're there's possibility that one of someone or or Medi or I'm not too sure will do a motocross at some stage this year on a Jacadi. And then but their main goal is is Supercross. Um their riders, I I don't know who I think they're in the tour with riders at the moment, um, to get signed and sealed for that. I think like two guys, um, and yeah, and they'll bring out a good, you know, great team to Supercross and be cool to uh see how they go.

SPEAKER_00 39:11

Okay, cool. Um, hey, let's talk some uh Fink stuff now, especially because you're out there every other week, you're training out there. Um obviously you guys are all a pretty tight-knit community, everyone kind of talks, you're all going to the same watering hole kind of thing. Uh where before I ask you how who you think's gonna go good and who's fast out there, where do you think that would be respectable for Ducadie and for your team to finish for Fink this year? Like the dream is obviously to win it, um, and there's no reason why you can't. Um, have you guys put any like really realistic goals like a top five or a top three or a top ten or a top 20? What's the expectation?

SPEAKER_01 39:50

As for Joe Rascal and Ducaddy, honestly, their goal is it sounds funny, but is just to finish. They want to, you know, get build a great bike, get up there and finish the race. But obviously, they've hired me for a reason and is to do well also. Um, and I think the bike's capability is it's definitely you know capable to win that race. It's just you know, there's gonna be a lot of one percenters that go into that, um, and myself. So for me, for you know, them to me, or you know, their expectations for me is to obviously do well, but they haven't put any, you know, you must, you know, want they want a podium or a top five. Obviously, as we said, they'd love to be on the podium or podium in the 450 class would be ideal. Um for myself, I'd love to do well and and be on the box. Um, have a great weekend, never know, try and win the thing. But I I can't say I I wouldn't want to be on the box. That's kind of where I want to be. I've I've been on the box. Um, I feel like the bike's good enough to be there. It's just sort of still trying to take it slow with the bike and and and make sure it's you know, don't rush into doing anything too silly to the bike, keep it pretty standard for this first year and and just try and hopefully I can um you know ride it well and and use my experience up there and and just um yeah keep it simple and and be solid and just try and be you know solid down and back and and put in a good result and see how we go. Uh I think once we speak about in a minute who the other riders are and what they're actually riding also could play into the 450 thing a little bit more. Um there's not maybe going to be as many guys in the pointy end on 500s this year. Could be so that could it help in a way, it might, but it it could. Um we could be a little closer sooner just being a 450. Um, so yeah, but I mean my goal is to be on the podium, but honestly, we can just finish and get a decent result under us, I think would be great for Joe Raskell and Ducaddy.

SPEAKER_00 41:47

Yeah, because I guess it's one of those things where you know, as a competitor yourself, you want to do really well, but you've got to understand that like, okay, I'm just doing something to uh this is a new team, this is a new everything. While I am capable of a podium and I know what it takes to get to a podium, even in the uh pre-running side of things, you know how fast you're going compared to other people or compared to how you're going, you've been going in the past. It's hard, it'd be hard not to get ahead of yourself and go, but wait a minute, this is a still a learning curve for the team before we rip into who you think is going to be fast, who you who to think to look out for. Um the deal with Ducati is can we look at it like more of a this year anyway, as a development style ride? Like they want you to develop a bike that can race a think, and if they can get a bike to finish a think, that says a lot about a bike that doesn't blow up halfway there or back. And then therefore they can use some of the stuff that you guys find out in maybe an off-road team next year, maybe obviously the motocross team. So is it more of a development? Do you feel it's got more of a development feel than just a win or you're gone?

SPEAKER_01 42:50

I think so. That's that's kind of uh how how I feel about it. Um, whether they I do a year and I'm out of there or not. But I uh hopefully everyone seems great and the team's working great. So hopefully it's uh it's a long-term thing. But for sure, that's that's kind of how it feels. I feel like, you know, as well as we want to, or you know, as much as we want to do well this year, it's kind of like you know, we just gotta, as you said, make sure we kick the boxes with the bike and take our time and just make sure it's you know it's a it's a good bite before we jump into trying to win things. Um so I think so. Try and really give to Caddy and and and Joe Raskell, who want to, you know, do this racing, uh off-road racing and super cross, motocross for a long time, um as much feedback as we can, make the bike as good as we can. And you know, if um things go fast and we do well, we do well. But if not, you know, try and build to 27 really is kind of the um not the goal, but you know, you as you said, you want to do well, but it's kind of at the same time, you just got to be patient. It's a new bike. Things are gonna come. Um, we're gonna figure things out. It might take us six months to realize that there's one thing on that bike. If we had to change it, it made a whole world of difference. So it's just it's just new, and more guys. Riding it too. I'm kind of probably going to be the only one up there. There might be a few guys that buy one, but it's it's still not many that I've seen around yet. So um, and I think even for dealerships and stuff like that, it's you know, it's gonna take a little bit just to get people to to trust that it's a you know a bike for that kind of racing. Um, but I think if we can do well and finish and prove that I'm on a well at the moment, I'm on a stock engine, and if it's competitive, it's a pretty cool thing. Um and in the price range, they're not as crazy as people would think as the Cardi brand is. Um, they're kind of competitive with stuff, which is cool. So um, no, hopefully we can yeah, just get some decent results and finish um you know the events and prove that they're you know they're a five because it's an option to go racing and the off-road stuff.

SPEAKER_00 44:46

Yeah, for sure. Uh all right, let's talk who you think's gonna be fast for 26. Uh who you kind of pick is. We don't have a full rider list, as everyone knows that rider list comes out a little bit later because there's a lot of people that come in and out, in and out, depending on uh yeah, whether or not at this stage they can get there. Um, but also injury and bits and pieces. But the top 10 from last year are as far as I can see, with the list that Fink have sent me, have registered and locked themselves in for Fink again in 2026. Um but some serious moves between brands, obviously. Um, you know, Corey Hammond won it last year, he's uh jumped on a Honda and on a new team. Same with obviously Welshie, who's won it five times, uh, and Brady Waters has been on a Honda before, but you know, he's now on that team. Uh you got yourself on a Ducaddy, um, you got the uh KDM guys lining up again, you know, these uh who take yourself out of it. I know it's hard, you're obviously racing it, and we we expect you to be a top five, ten, three kind of guy. Um can't name yourself. Who are you would you say that the three guys that you've seen out there pre-running it that look fast, the guys that you might that have gelled well with a team, uh, that would be your the biggest threat at Fink for 26?

SPEAKER_01 46:02

I'd say if I had to pick one, I know Corey's the defending champion. Um can't take anything away from him. He's a great rider, he's fit, um, always solid, doesn't make mistakes, you know, everything a good rider, you know, needs to be. But David Walsh, I mean, he's won it five times for a reason. He's just a he's just a mongrel. Like that down that it doesn't matter. He's just a he'll find something. Um I rate Corey, but I rate David too. They're gonna be the two, I would say. Um David's cousin, Liam Walsh, he got hurt a week out from the race last year. He'll touch and go. I think he's still recovering from injury, kind of getting close to being on the bike. Um, he's the kind of guy that could jump on a month out and be fast, uh, but he's just got got it. You know, the guys, some guys have it up there and some guys don't. Um, so if he can stay healthy and recover well and get used to the bike, he'll be aboard a KTM, I'm pretty sure. So, and a 500. So he'll be competitive, he'll be able to get some miles in living in Al Springs. Um who else we got? Brody is obviously always solid. Um, I think he'll he'll be good. Um, I'd say one to keep an eye on. Don't know how serious he's taking it, but I know he's entered in racing is Ivan Long. He's an an older guy, but he's finished on he's finished on the box there multiple times, and he's just you don't know what you're gonna get with Longy. So it'll either be fast as hell and have a crack, or you know, he might just be there for fun. I'm not sure. Um Luke Hayes, he got hurt last year before the race, but he's another local, um, just a solid dude down that track, knows the track well, been riding the track since he was a kid. So he'll be good. Um Campbell Hall finished second last year. He'll be aboard at KTM. He's another, he's kind of one that you don't I've you just forgot about, but he again just plugs away, puts in the homework down the track. So yeah, there's a lot of a lot of guys that you know might look super, super quicker than than you know these top guys they're talking about, but they're gonna be there all weekend. They're just solid. Um, you know, they're on a good platform, they they do a lot of pre-running, um, and they'll be there to clean up if anyone makes a mistake. So I think um, yeah, that's kind of the the feel. I'm forgetting. I know there's a Stevens boys, Cody, and lead by Stevens. Yeah, they're fast. Um, a lot of that last year's top ten, I suppose, but some ones that didn't finish or race last year, Luke Hayes, Liam Walsh, Ivan Long coming back. Um, I'd say, and and and David uh obviously didn't race last year. So I think I think it's gonna be it's gonna be a great race. Having last year's top ten, and then having David coming back, hopefully Liam, Hazy, a few boys that haven't raced for a couple of years. So I think it could be really good. Um David's David is gonna be hard to beat, but hopefully we can make him earn it anyway.

SPEAKER_00 48:55

I feel like this year, um with so many changes, do you think it's evened the field up even more? So you're on a new bike, so that's you know, like we just discussed before, you know, staying with STE for another year going into your fourth year, there's more comfortable, you'd be you're even more comfortable on the bike and the setup. And so us as punters go like, man, okay, he's got this bike down pat now, he's gonna be hard to beat. Um, if Walshie hadn't have taken a year off and it just kept plowing on on a KDM, he's now on a Honda after a year off. Corey Hammond obviously switched across to a Honda, uh, buddy won it last year. But going, like you said, from a 500 to a 450, a 500 on a PDS to a 450 on a linkage, there's a lot to kind of adjust to. Do you feel like this year will be if you're guessing it the closest year we've had for a long time? And be and I say that as well because like you just said, Walshie is this animal that just went and won five, you know, pretty in pretty quick succession. He figured that out, that race out pretty well. Um, and so going into it every year, it was like okay, he's on the same equipment, he's got other guys like yourself that are gonna push him all the way to the end and providing bikes don't expire, could beat him. But that's all out the window because everyone's on new gear. Is this gonna be the closest to think we've seen? And it's cool, it's the 50th, so it's like this is an anniversary year, and it could actually be like four of you coming down the main drag at the end trying to get each other to the line. Is it do you feel like that could possibly happen?

SPEAKER_01 50:19

Definitely. I I think it could be for sure the closest. Um, obviously, Tom Ray said there's always seems to be someone or a couple that separate themselves, but I think leading into the event to pick someone, it's kind of like you take him, he's the five-time champ, you take him, he's last year's champ. It's very everyone's on kind of like you said, a new platform. Corey Um Hammond, who's won it last year. He um, you know, he's young like myself, so he's got that on his side, he's fit and everything. Um, but just you know, jumping from it, I think also he was on a 23 KTM, which is the old shape. So going from that to a Honda is sometimes, I mean, now he's got a team behind him, all of that, it can definitely take a lot of you know, load off and could perform even better. So it's positives, but also it's just it's a different bike. So he's gonna have to get his head around that. And like you say with David not racing for a year and going to a new brand, it's just it's just different, it's just different. Um, so but no, I'm sure them boys will, you know, they're gonna put in a lot of work and and figure it out. But for sure it's gonna be well, I hope it's a it's a great close race, and I think uh this year's got potential for it to be. Um, yeah, and there's who knows, there could be someone holding the weeds coming through that pulls it pulls it out on the day, too. There is a kid, um I forgot to say, uh, Mitchell Outram from WA. He finished fourth last year. He he's actually getting better every year. He's got better results each year, and um, you know, hopefully he can get out there and do a fair bit of pre-running, he'll be competitive as well. So it's definitely there's a few of them, and uh, hope it's hope it's five because it's always better when it's like yeah, I can't wait for it.

SPEAKER_00 51:53

Um, we talk about Campbell Hall staying on a uh KDM for 26. He's gonna make up, I'm guessing, the STE KDM team. I know obviously you've left that team, so you're you're not aware of what's happening behind closed doors, but while you're out there pre-running in bits and pieces, have you seen who else is filling any other potential seats? Because that's the essence that is the factory in inverted commas KDM team right now out in the desert. Do you know who's gonna be on that STE? I don't think it's been announced, the STE team.

SPEAKER_01 52:20

No, so I think you're right. I don't think it's been announced. I actually think Campbell might be running his own team, believe it or not, but KDM supported. But I think STE will see Liam Walsh if he races. He was on that last year. Um, I think he gets a Beth long good with STE, and it just sort of makes sense for them with him being in L Springs. As for their two and three, um, I don't know if they're going uh second and a third guy, they're just gonna run two. Um, possibly whether they pick someone, uh, maybe one of the Stevens boys. I did hear possibly. Um, I would have thought, as you'd say, Campbell coming from second last year would be a no-brainer, but I I think he might have his own little team that he's got going and sponsors and whatever, so makes sense to him. But I think you'll see Liam Walsh um along with maybe one of the Stevens boys. I don't know 100%, but that's kind of what I'm thinking. Yeah. Okay. So which is good. I mean, they're both they're all solid, and yeah, schools are they'd be good.

SPEAKER_00 53:20

Yeah. Um, and no random husky teams. I mean, the highest place Yamaha last year was uh Ray Cole. Uh he came in. Yeah, um, yeah, then you Jake Cobb after him uh in at 10th. So yeah, there's two Yammi's in the top 10. You haven't heard of a of a husky or a yammy team or uh, you know, that's out there uh rerunning it.

SPEAKER_01 53:42

Not that I've heard or seen as yet, but there's always a possibility. There seems to be come that through Easter, um, the prologue practice day. So the only day that the prologue tracks open is uh the first weekend of May. Generally that's where we see. I mean, I know it's close to the event, but if there's going to be something pop up that they've kept hidden for a while, could be around then. But as for now, I've I think the boys that were on the Yamahas, I know I think Jake's possibly on the Amaha again. Ray Cole, I'm not sure, but I would have thought possibly. Um and as for around the Madura's got quite a few guys that race uh or that are in the scene. Um, I haven't heard of any other little things popping up yet, but I did hear possibly um or seeing that Campbell Hall's team, whatever he's got going, uh Tyler Radford that finished uh what he finished sixth, maybe?

SPEAKER_00 54:34

Let's have a look. Yeah, we had a type sixth, yeah. Dex up in 2500.

SPEAKER_01 54:37

They might be teaming up, got something going. So he's another one that could be solid as well. Seems to do a bit up in L Springs. So I don't know, he's a you know, taller, bigger lad, so he handles that stuff well. So um, but yeah, no, it's it's shaping up to be a good one, that's for sure.

SPEAKER_00 54:52

Um, all right, track wise out there this year. You've obviously been out and pre-running it in bits and pieces. Uh, I know will they grow they'll grade it again. They grade it nowadays before the race, not never not right before it, but a little bit before it. Um they've had a lot of rain in around like just yeah, I know it's been getting into Alice. Like, I know it's been in the top of South Australia. Do you I don't know it's uh we're still eight weeks. What are we now? Yeah, a bit like nearly nine weeks, nine, ten weeks from the race. So a lot can change in terms of weather and conditions and stuff. But typically, if we start to see a little bit of rain coming around, it might mean it's a wetter run, or maybe if we're coming if we're you know, off the back of a drought, we know there's just no chance of rain, it's gonna be dry regardless. Is the track shaping up different to have it how it has in previous years? And are you guys is it too early for you guys to go out there and go, we reckon it's gonna do this in terms of weather and the way the track will shape up?

SPEAKER_01 55:44

Yeah, it's so as you said, this year it's had a lot of rain, um, like heaps. The track's got like it's decent, you can ride it, obviously, but it's got quite a lot of uh even like sinkhole looking things for that much rain. Um, so it's pretty nasty. Um, at the moment, you're able to ride there, but to make it sort of race safe, they will have to do some work. Um, generally, like you said, they do a little bit in that last sort of two weeks. Just you get so many pre-runners, I guess, in the last month, the track just deteriorates so much. So anything that's looking like they'll leave it rough, but if it looks dangerous rough, they will for sure clean it up. But being the 50th and with the numbers they have at the moment, um, I think it's it's smart to clean it up where they can. Obviously, for a good racetrack, it's nice to have it rough, but understand they got it, you know, make it safe too. So I would say it's such a hard one because the last two to three years, we've pre-run it so dry. Um, and you think, yep, you're set, this is your setting, this is what it's gonna be. And the last, yeah, I think the last two years, maybe three, we've had rain um about a week and a half out, and it's only been 40, 50 mil, say, but it's enough to just turn the track up and it goes from being like kind of hard packed, really slippery, dry sand to now it's got some ruts and it's got some give to it, and you gear in your you find a second guess, you set up a little bit, you're kind of that far into it by then you just commit. But yeah, so right now I'd say it's you know might be a pretty fluffy, rough, gnarly track. But yeah, if we get no range for the race now, it'll dry out a bit. But I still think we've had enough rain and the track's been rough enough for in the previous years that I think it it's gonna be a rough one, I would say. Um they will clean it in places, depending, who knows? Sometimes they decide to do more than they say they're gonna do, or they might do less than they say I don't know. But I would just go in off how the track's been trending the last two or three years and the moisture that's in it at the moment. Um, I know we're a few months out, but it it'll hang around and the more people will ride it. I feel like it'll be pretty bloody rough.

SPEAKER_00 57:49

Oh, this is good news. The poor the punters out there, 750 bikes they're taking this year. And I think I I know a few punters that are going. In fact, I know one guy that we're gonna catch up with while we're out there that's um a kind of old KDM legend. He actually won his class in Fink 39 years ago. He was telling me just today, I called him earlier, his name's Sprockett. Um, he's gonna ride his KDM 500 out there, he's 60, and then race race Fink on the same bike and then ride it back to Coomer in New South Wales, which is where he's from. So, guys like him, hearing it could be rougher than normal, are probably gonna start second guessing their decision. But that's what Fink's all about. The rougher, the better. I know, especially especially for you top 20 guys, like the rougher the the the better, because it means you've got to be even even better to win it. And for us as spectators to see how nasty and gnarly it gets and to see the things you guys can do on that track at that when it's deteriorated like that is even better than when it's yeah, dry and dusty and no one can see who's coming. And yeah, so that is special. Um, all right, mate. Well, what we might do, that's that's a good kind of overview of who's gonna go fast out there, what to expect at Fink. It's we we can't wait. I know um so we'll we'll be out there, we'll be covering the whole thing, and we're gonna do a live kind of podcast show while we're out there with the guys from Dirt Bite Burrito. We're gonna do that on the night of scrutineering. But I was actually speaking as well. This is for everyone out there that's panicking, second guessing. I was speaking with Kelse Rodder today, she's the secretary for the Fink Committee out there, and and we've been asked by several people, oh, what the hell is happening? Will I be able to get fuel if I'm taking a truck out there and I'm dragging my trophy truck or my buggy or my bikes? And you know, I'm they're okay bringing race fuel for a bike, but will I be able to fill up the truck with diesel to get home? And she has assured me that is not a problem. Diesel will 100% be there. In fact, uh our Alice have locked in a price of fuel and a certain amount of fuel to make sure that there will be servos full of diesel, full of petrol, full of everything for the long weekend. So they're, you know, everyone out there they don't need to be worried about getting fuel in and out of Alice Springs. Who knows what the world's gonna look like between now and then, but also, you know, maybe between where you're coming from to getting to Alice, but you can be reassured that once you get to Alice, she's guaranteed there's gonna be more just like normal. You might be paying half your mortgage to get it nowadays with fuel prices, but there's gonna be fuel that you know, there's gonna regardless, there's gonna be fuel. So it's kind of it was it was good and reassuring to hear that because a lot of people were starting to get you know, panic a little bit that they might get out there and can't get home if they can't get fuel. So that's not gonna be a problem. Um and it is the 50th, so like this is massive, you know. They're expecting spectator numbers like they've never seen before. They had a thousand people sign up in 45 minutes or something when they opened it in the first stage one. Yeah, so 750 bikes and then 250 buggies and um trophy truck split. I'm not sure how, but uh, and then their wait list is as long as that almost again. So um yeah, they're stoked, they've got so much interest. And I know that um chatting with a lot of my mates, um, they're all planning a road trip out there to go and watch it because it's such a cool unique anniversary being the 50th. So everyone who's thinking about going, you really should go. It's gonna be such a cool event, especially for this year. Uh, and like we said, like Cal said earlier, this top 10 is like anyone's guess. It's just the guy who coming who came ninth or eighth or seventh last year could win. Uh, there's no reason why they couldn't this year. So definitely want to be out there. Um, now that they covered a think, I I want to talk to you about a bit about your career too, mate, because um you know, I I feel like you've taken not an unusual career path into desert racing, because you know, we've done some stuff with Walsh in the past, and he, like most kids, you've got to start in motocross. You can't race a desert at the age of six or five. So, you know, you're always gonna start in motocross. Um but you know, you started in in motocross and you were actually quite successful early on as a junior motocross rider, um, especially at a national level. Let's just start with where did you start riding? What age were you? How did you start riding? Did you have a dad who was obsessed with dirt bikes and it was just like it was gonna happen regardless, or did your parents have nothing to do with dirt bikes and you begged until you got one? Where did the bite, the bug, bite you, and how did it all start?

SPEAKER_01 1:01:59

Yeah, it started young. Um, dad always loved it. He never raced to kind of the level I've been lucky enough to do, but he was always around it, around his mates um race. He had some close friends, uh Troy Doran being one of them, who's Dozer, he was an ex uh motocross. I think he won a couple of Hussie Championships. Um and sort of being around the Geelong area. There was, you know, a lot of crew from all Dacky's kind of ended up there, and a guy Steve Andrews back in the day. There's a lot of sort of that crew that you know were from there that were quite good. So he kind of always struck around it riding. And yeah, as I was uh coming to the world, he uh got me a bike at age of two, so I was being doing it for two, even though back then they didn't have electric balance bikes and all the things.

SPEAKER_00 1:02:44

Well, you're riding at two of Pee Wee adjustments.

SPEAKER_01 1:02:46

I had yeah, I had a very first to get me going. I actually started hate to say it, but I started on a little uh Suzuki quad thing. Uh little uh yeah, yeah. Uh I was a quad guy at first now for around half along, and then then I got the I got the P Wing, I think, just before I was three. So I uh got on that and then um did that for a little while. And then I of course I wanted a KTM 50, so I think we got that around four and then started racing at five. So it was a quick uh I was addicted early, I think.

SPEAKER_00 1:03:17

And and that's out of Vic. You're base, you were born and raised in Lawn, Victoria. Um you raced the Vic series and then talk us through like doing junior nationals and all that kind of stuff. And when did you realize, you know what? I think I'm actually decent at this, I can go fast. At what age did you realize that you could, you know, make a um or make a career out of it?

SPEAKER_01 1:03:38

Yeah, so as you said, grew up in Lawn um down there in Vic. So uh not there's plenty of bush riding, but not heaps of motocross stuff down there. So we're we'd always traveled not too far into Geelong. Um as a kid from when I started racing at five, we we joined clubs at um little Geelong motocross track at the time, which is kind of nearly in the city now. If you were to drive through Geelong, uh it's no longer there. Uh that was where I started riding. Um, and then back then, Barrable, um, it was just out of Geelong, that big nice motocross track we uh grew up riding there and learning there. And kind of maybe around seven, the age of seven or eight, you started doing state level stuff, um, and even some Aussie junior titles, which were always at sort of September school holidays for a week, we'd um go away and do them. But yeah, I started, I was not too bad at a young age. I was a bigger kid, so compared to some of the kids that have sort of that young age, every you know, it takes a little bit to grow. I was always bigger, so I think that was always a bit of an advantage for me. Um, helped on little mini mini bites. But at the probably the age of 10 really, I won my first state title. Um, and like yeah, grade 65, I won my first uh Victorian title. And the following year in 2011, I think it was, I was 11. Um, I got picked up by the KDM junior team, which was the GMR racing team, which was Glenn McDonald, was running that back then. So was able to get picked up at that age, and that's kind of where we got kind of serious. I mean, we were serious before that and racing the state stuff and chasing the Aussies, but just to you know, end like any other sort of junior parent. But from 2011 on, it was kind of like I was supported by KTM and you know had some sponsors and started to really see what it was like and kind of get the dream to maybe do it professionally one day. Even that young, you're kind of like, well, let's you know, let's have have a go. And um it's kind of all I wanted from then. I I played footy and uh cricket and a lot of other sports, but motorbikes is always number one, and it was every weekend we'd race Western region stuff, uh you know, local, we'd drive across overnight and then get to the Gippsland and race that stuff and then States to with New South Wales and Queensland titles and everything. Just I raced heat a lot. I was very lucky to be able to do that. Um Um, but yeah, we I went uh the following year after it's 2011, 2012, we went and raced um Loretta Lynns in America and it I was only five years old, but I was lucky to go do that. That was pretty cool. Um really cool. Uh it's quite a quite a journey to do it. You have to pre-qualify for that race. So you we went to America in uh I think it's like April, done one of the events, finished top 12, you move on to the next pre-qualifier, which is a couple of months later, and then it's like top five, and then you're into Loretta. So it's not just go over there, do one trip, come home. It was it was three trips. So it's expensive for the fans. But yeah, we we kind of just went there as a holiday, um, and to do a race, and I'd done all right, and they're like, Oh, you sort of got to come back now and do the thing, you can't not do it. Um, so yeah, we I done that as a kid and I finished fifth at Loretta's as a kid, um, which was kind of cool at the time. You don't you just sort of think it's all part of it, but it was yeah, it was really cool looking back now. It's like we are super cool.

SPEAKER_00 1:07:02

Any names? Any names that you race that we're looking at now? Because you're the age where they're like in their prime kind of thing.

SPEAKER_01 1:07:08

So I had a heap around me and a few in my class. So Garrett Marchbanks is gone for Factory Cowy. He finished second that year. Um, we had like so like Sexton and Falkner were all a year older than me. They're all just above me. Um that year, Cooper Webb was racing in the 50 class. Um, it was Adam Cisrella who was on the super mini. There was Carmichael, actually, Ricky, he raced the uh in the Vets class that yeah. It was sick to be there and be just see how they I mean the the racing here is is great, but to see how the level they can go to and the camper vans, and I mean they had a four to six class for the Cobra 50s, and they're racing that stuff at four. It's like it's incredible. Um, they're there to win, so it's pretty, pretty cool, but um it was a great experience. Uh I loved it. It's a full week of racing. Um, the weather was gnarly. Like we come from it's in August, so from lawn it's buddy 10 or 12 degrees most days. And yeah, we went to Tennessee in um Hurricane Mills, and it was nearly high 30s and 100% humidity most days. It was oh I was a little chubby 12-year-old hating life. But but it was awesome. I was super lucky to be able to do that, and um, and that's kind of, I guess, seeing that going to America at that age, um, go into the practice tracks of Glenn Hallon and Parlour Raceway and just getting to see all the pros at the track and even the left you on the track with them, uh, which is I know sketchy, but it was just to be able to do that, you kind of at that age like, well, I want to, you know, give you the drive to want to get there one day and um and have a crack at that. So at that age, desert racing honestly never even come into my mind. I I didn't really know much about Drabo and Toby and those guys until I was sort of later in my um, you know, junior career. But but yeah, it was always wanted to be a motorcrust supercrust race racist. So um yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_00 1:09:04

Wow, okay. That's such so interesting that and and that makes sense that you go to an event like Loretta's and you see the scale and the size of it, uh, and you know that so many of the uh uh people who go on to have successful careers in AMA have come through the Loretta Loretta's system, you know, they've been successful there in the past. So if you maybe have some success there, you kind of think to yourself, oh what I maybe I am quicker than I thought I could be, and this could be something for me. Um so yeah, that's interesting, that kind of steers you. So obviously you came back and then you hit seniors, um, uh you raced a bit of motocross. What why then you you know, is it because of your body size, you're a taller lad, that you kind of went, you know, this is gonna be hard work in motocross and supercross, and my body is now starting to build more into a desert body. The only person I can think of that's a big unit on a um motocross bike is like a Benny Bloss or you know, someone like that, where they're like six foot three and they can, but there's not many, like they're you know, there are not many at all. I know, you know, so many chats with Ty Simmons, fastest guy ever on a on a motocross track, but it was just like I kept getting bigger and I just felt like it was suiting more the off-road stuff. Um, why why the transition then out of motocross? Like you said, you didn't grow up, grow up in Miljura or in Alice looking at think from the age of five. How why the transition?

SPEAKER_01 1:10:23

Yeah, I I think that had a fair bit to do with it, the being bigger. Um, I started doing HADA, the HADA Desert race. I got we heard about that when I was sort of uh 12, 13. Um, so I started doing the Hadda junior race every year, and that kind of you know, I got the love for that, and um every year I'd look forward to that. So that kind of like was, I guess, my opening for looking at off-road a little bit. I still, even until I was 16, which is my last year of juniors, I raced the junior nats. Um, I won my won the state titles that year. I was went in the junior nets and I actually crashed in the last moto, but was right there as one of the top sort of junior kids, and I went and done the junior super cross and I won two of the rounds of that, and then just kind of like still had the love for motocross, but this defit stuff is kind of like uh I was starting, you know, Toby was have becoming becoming quite a big name in the whole world of deficit racing and and Dakar at that stage. It was starting to tick off. So I kind of looked at it, I'm like, oh, I'm you know, a bigger dude, maybe that could, you know, be my sort of way to go. Um, it wasn't until I turned senior. We raced one year of the whole MX Nationals, yeah, raced super cross and still had her. Um, I finished fourth in my first senior had her at 16. And that that was kind of like that, maybe I do give this a go. Uh, teams were probably a bit more there was definitely options to stay at motocross, but again, being I was sort of 80, low 80s kilos, um, and I was 16, 17, and majority of the kids on the at the time were sort of you know, low 70s, even just high 60s, that was kind of giving up a little bit there, and I wasn't quite ready for a 450. I I could ride one, but to to ride one to a Dean Ferris and that stage at that time was it's a lot big difference. So um it was kind of like, oh, the desert stuff let's sort of maybe give that a go. And and Honda gave me an opportunity. My first year um was 2018. I um I still raced motocross for Honda on a 250. Yeah, did still did okay, but the desert stuff I was straight away my first think. Um I I didn't actually finish, but I got to think in third um in my first go and then unfortunately blew up on the way home. Um, but it was kind of positive right off the bat. I was kind of up there and doing well. Um and it just kind of went from there. The following year, 2019, I signed a deal with the KDM Desert team. Um, Jeff Leash was in charge back then. Uh Gren Carney was the team manager, and they were like, you know, if you're gonna do this desert stuff, you sort of got to be all in on think and you've got to go literally become a local. Um, and David Walsh was my teammate at the time. And yeah, we just I went to every month for a week. I was in Al Springs free running. So that's kind of the way it went. I still wish there's part of me that kind of like is where could of the motocross stuff go. I think my last proper national was Coolam, and I finished fourth on a 450. So that was kind of like maybe kept me, but it I mean, it's just you know, you got to pick one or the other, you can't do everything. And um, you know, yeah, as we say, it's still a bit of me that wants to do that, but kind of now my goal has been that um, you know, the rally is kind of where I'd love to get to one day. Um and yeah, it's kind of the new vision I have, hopefully, and we'll just see how it keeps panding out. But but yeah.

SPEAKER_00 1:13:46

Um yeah, it's it's funny. We have so many of these chats with guys like yourself uh who you know race a motorcycle professionally, and they um there are so many sliding door moments in your career where it's like, oh, I have an opportunity, and it's not just simply going from Honda to Yamaha and still racing the ProMex, it's do I go from desert to from motocross to desert, you know, or do I take this opportunity overseas and go and race in Juro GP instead of staying here and doing the AORC? Um you know, you guys have to make so many decisions, and we've chatted about this in the past at a young age. We had Caden Minier on the podcast a month ago, and just like the decisions that guy was having to make, and I and I know it's with his parents, but uh, you know, there's the you you guys are still in charge of your own life and you and your parents aren't gonna kick you drag you kicking and screaming off to something you don't want to do, so you still have to make a decision and to to do things like cross the country and live on your own on the other side of the country to train with Ross Beaton or to go to the US or like I said to go to Europe. These are massive decisions at that age. Um you kind of mentioned like oh what kind of could have happened at any stage early in your desert career, like you said, after Lee Skid kind of tapped you on the shoulder and said you need to do this properly. Was there any doubt early on, or is it just now later in life, you're looking back going, Oh, what could have happened? Were you just like absorbed by it early on and just were out of there and you're fully into desert, no thought of looking back?

SPEAKER_01 1:15:10

My first year of like proper desert only was 2019, as I said, and um Lisa was in charge and Carney and um sort of went under Walshi's wing. And um from then I was like, no, this is definitely you know what I want to do. Um put in so much free running, learnt the the desert sort of route, I guess, and what you got to do to be good there. Um I was pretty certain then that that's what I wanted to go to. It took a little bit of not convincing, but you know, going into that year, I'm like, am I really gonna love it or am I gonna want to but the environment the environment was good. I enjoyed being up there, the desert stuff. It's maybe a little bit more laid back than the motocross. Not that I enjoy the training and that side of things now, but maybe then I was maybe a little bit not quite ready to go to that level in motocross, and I kind of seen that I enjoyed the desert riding, um, you know, a little bit more, but um, but now for sure I've you know up that side, the training side a bit more. Um but yeah, I think the during COVID, um, once that I'd done my first couple of years and then COVID happened, I got an injury, I got a knee fix that I hurt in that period. Um, and kind of coming out of that, I was a bit uncertain on what you know how racing was really going to look. Um and I kind of looked then at maybe trying to dip back into motocross and I was like, ah no, and I I stayed with desert and was kind of felt like I was, you know, each year was getting closer to being really good at thinking. And I was like, each year I was away from motocross, I was losing another year and another year, and that's a year that it would take back to get back to that level. And even now I haven't done it for a long time. And you know, people say, Oh, why don't you just go do a national? And I'm like, it's just you know, that level is high to be. And I I wouldn't want to go there and just go around and be in, not be in the way, but just do it for fun. I kind of, if I was gonna do it, I wanted to do it properly, and I feel like I've been away for it long enough now, I'd really have to put in for probably a year to even get back to being a competitive. Um, so and each year I stacked, you know, with the desert stuff, I've got closer and closer, and that think win or podium drove me for a long time and until I got that. And once I got the podium, and I was like, right, oh, I want to try and win this race. Um, that's kind of you know been the goal the last however many years doing the desert stuff. And along the way, you've I've seen uh Daniel Sanders transition into to Dakar, do well and now win that. Um it's kind of like I know that's a you know a fair way away, but it's kind of a and it become another goal. It's like, all right, well, how can I also keep kicking golf in Australia but try and get to that level one day? Um, you know, back in the day it was motocross, you wanted to get overseas, but now it's kind of like, well, I want to try to get into rally somehow. And whether it happens one day or not, it it might never, but I'm still 25, so it's a positive. Um, so trying to trying to uh yeah, somehow make that happen would be would be awesome.

SPEAKER_00 1:18:01

Um that's so interesting. You're right. I guess for so many decades we went, well, the only way to make money and have a long career is to do motocross, supercross, go to Europe, have either success in Europe or go to Europe for a year and then go across to the US and live out your next 10 years in the US. There've been some Enduro guys like um Stefan Merriman and Chris Hollis that have been able to make it work in the off-road scene just in Europe, and then you go over to the US and the Glenn Carneys and the Josh Strang's that have been able to make it work just in GNCC style stuff in the US. But really, they were the options, um, mostly motocross and supercross. But because of what Toby and now Chucky have proved that can be done, it's almost opened up this pathway for rally, which is really exciting for guys like yourself because you have all this phenomenal talent that you know for so long, all those that the rally just picked from Europe, and if you weren't French or Spanish, you didn't make one of their teams, and so they didn't really kind of care. And they've now realized that hang on, geez, there's some guys that can go fast down there, and and you know, they're looking at us, which is really cool. Uh, and I'm keen to get into that in a second, in in a bit. Um before we do, I want to ask you um, the transition from motocross, supercross to desert, um, like you know, you you kind of made out like it's what just what I enjoyed doing, so that's what I started doing. Now, motocross is dangerous, supercross is probably slightly more dangerous than motocross, and then desert, I don't know where desert fits, because I feel like desert's a million times more dangerous, but I'm fully aware that there is some pretty, you know, horrible things that also happen in motocross and supercross. How do you get your head around going from you know 70, 80 foot triples to 185 kilometres an hour in the desert and feel the same and feel okay inside about holding that pinned? Secondly, how does your your mum and your dad, we've all got a mum and a dad, how your brother, your sister, how do how do they feel about that transition? I've got kids myself, and I know if one of them said, Dad, I'm gonna go do this at 150, 80k an hour, I'd be like, I don't know if you are. Um so yeah, like how do you how do you get your your headspace into desert? And then even as well, I know like Chris Hollis when he was racing for KDM um in the off-road team, he went out and pre-ranned Fink just to see if he could do it. And he did like one or two runs, turn it and went, absolutely not, I'm not doing that. That scares the crap out of me, and left. He just left Alice and went back to the East Coast, wasn't interested at all. Multiple guys have had the same have come from the off-road space, have had the same feeling out at Fink. How do you turn your mind from here's a 70-foot triple I'm gonna hit in Supercross to now I'm gonna just do 185 Ks an hour on a dirt bike?

SPEAKER_01 1:20:37

Yeah, no, for sure. That's a such a different thing, and as you say, people either take to it or they don't. Um I think growing up, I rode uh like where we in Lawn where we grew up, we got a lot of like fire trail stuff, and honestly, I I know it's so different, but I grew up riding these fast fire trails with my old man chasing him on mini-bikes, and he was on you know, 450s, and it's quite a fast, you only doing 120 to 140, but there's trees on the other side, and it's yeah, yeah, it's still fast enough. So I I think I've kind of done enough riding as a kid around, you know, trees lining either side going quick that maybe I was kind of had it in me a little bit as a young fella, and then my first year, I think, on um on the Honda in 2018 as um kind of a I guess I just went there to really learn it and see how I went. Um, I had Jacob Smith was the one of the, or I guess the top rider for Honda that year. He kind of really helped me a lot just to you know learn to start slow and and don't rush into it because I see a lot of kids that go up there now that come from an off-road or motocross background who, you know, they're great riders and they want to do well straight away and uh as I did, but you go out there and have a big crash early on, and it can just, you know, put that wrong sort of mindset in you and you scare you pretty quick. Um which I I was very probably lucky but also maybe had good bike skill coming from motocross that I just took my time and I still to this day touch wood have had minimal crashes up there and been quite lucky and haven't been scared away from it too much. Um, I think that helps not having too many big ones early on. Uh it made me stick around and and and like enjoy it. Um but definitely I don't know the speed thing, it must whether it's born in you or it comes from the ride in your background or whatever, but it hasn't seemed to scare me too much. There's there's moments where it's like you know, you you go, oh, that was could have been pretty wild. But it seems to be when you when you I I honestly prefer uh prefer riding watching on that track, is I find scarier. When I pull up and watch David or someone go by and see what we actually do, I'm like, oh that's pretty gnarly. But when you're on the bike, it kind of just feels a bit natural. Um dad likes road bikes, so he's kind of up with a bit of a bit of speed in his life. But yeah, Mom definitely took a little bit of uh getting uh what do you call it, the persuading. Um she just hangs around at the start line, doesn't never been down the track, so um it's it's different. Um, but also I think Hatter has helped as well coming from junior HADA. It's not it's not super fast, but it's got straights and it's that kind of terrain. Um so that probably helped a little bit with the transition. But and uh yeah, and I do think maybe having motocross supercross skills of or bike skills growing up on a bike for so long. If I do get myself in trouble up there, I know it's different, but having that coming from that background might help me, you know, I can wheel tap something or learn that I can jump off the track. And I just feel a bit more confident around that stuff with the bike skill that I've learned over those years, maybe because some kids that head up there now, they trying to start on a bike out on a farm or wherever, um, and they see things there's uh an option for them to go do, and they might have as much of that, you know, background that I was lucky enough to have. Um, and they, you know, might come unstuck a little bit easier. But yeah, it's it's definitely a different. Um I've taken to it probably well. Um and yeah, just kind of stuck to it, I guess, and got addicted early. Uh, that first year with KTM really got me, you know, in love with it. Um, pre-running with Walsh, and he went on to win that year. His first one was kind of really special, and still think about that year a lot. So um and grateful for that to you know be around those guys and get looked after the way I did at a young age. So that was definitely it's uh been cool.

SPEAKER_00 1:24:39

Um 2019 first year with KDM. Like you said, Leese was still in charge of the team back then. That was not long after that. He obviously left, and you know, you've probably seen a fair transition. We we all everyone out there is familiar with the Leesy era. Um even as journos, we would go overseas to do bike launches with either a guy called Greg Chambers or or Leesky. Greg Chambers was the marketing man back then, and uh they were uh how do I put this without getting in trouble? They were different launches, they were definitely like you had to watch yeah, what uh what went on to make sure you actually made it to the test track the following morning and that you made it back to Australia? Um but uh you so so you kind of came in right at the end of that period of like there wasn't as much accountability maybe with some of this stuff, and then it it changed a lot almost as you started. How have you seen um that professional space in the desert in particular change from 2019 or even 2018 on the Honda but 2019 on the official KDM team through to 2025 with STE KDM and what you're seeing now with Ducaddy obviously for 26? How has it changed from a team perspective to back then? Did you get more parts, more money? You know, uh KDM teams in the past have had like it felt like 15 choppers in the air following them left, right, and centre and making sure they're waiting at one end and waiting at the other end. How how has it changed since in the last 10 years?

SPEAKER_01 1:26:05

Yeah, for sure. Um that first year with KTM budget seemed quite big back then. Um luckily enough, like whatever we not whatever we needed, but it was a great it was a great team that had been going for a you know a long time and they'd they'd done well for a long time with Toby and David and Py Simmons for a few years and back to grab Grabo and Ivan Long and just so many guys. They'd they'd won for so long. Um it was such a you know, it was a the the team to be on at Think, really, um at that time. And I was lucky to catch one year of that there while while Lish was there, and um that was amazing. Um the crew, the mechanics, everyone that was a part of that had been there for a fair while. Um they just had it down pat the way the pre-running was so professional you know, children laid back, but the way they had it set out was in a really professional way. Like everything was you know perfect from the high cars to the equipment we needed to we had two bikes, the identical bikes to the wheels, the just the engines, that anything we needed to perform and make it happen, we could get um Colin Ross from you know North South Parshall was involved back then, Rossi. So um, you know, he was a big helping hand back then, and um it was just you know, it was a really, really well um you know set up team for that that racing. Um and STE, um, when I've now transitioned and done a few years with them, Gui involved with that. He he had quite a lot to do with think over the years and seeing how that team um you know come along and how well it done. So it was good to have a guy that and he's lived in L Springs also, so he kind of understood how the pre running side worked. And it's hard if you're a motocross team or someone who's never really been up there and seen how much pre running and how many hours you do on the bikes. And it's to go to thinking back in the day, it's more than just riding the high car has to make it there and back. That the team crew are driving, and if they get a flat, you need spare. And then you need to always have water and this and that and a sat phone because there's not much service out there. There's just so many little things that we need. And then it's, you know, get home at say five o'clock and then it's full prep, full bike, redo for the next day. And then we're doing that thinking back five days in a row when I was at KTM in in 2019, and you absolutely smoked. But it's it's just was, you know, he luckily Jason at SDE, he seen kind of how they operated. And um to a smaller scale, we done with STE, but um, but was it was pretty professional. But for sure, budgets, bikes, um, the amount of people we can have in L Springs back then compared to now for just a pre-run is is changed a lot. Um to get that budget now is is tricky, but for sure Ducati are having a good crack. Um, Honda now. Honda had a crack back then as well, but this year seems like they're having a really red hot factory riders and good mechanics. Um, you know, they'll be doing a lot of pre-running. Um yeah, I think I think it's maybe this year could hopefully um bring some teams back, and then hopefully for next year bring some with teams back as well. We've kind of seen that 19 was kind of the last, not last year, but there was a there was a husky team, a factory KTM team, there was Yamaha, Honda, and the last, you know, sort of since whatever it was, um, after you know, COVID and stuff like that. There's there's really only been KTM, maybe a Husky team and Brody Randy's Honda team and things like that. Uh I'm forgetting a few I know, but it it definitely scaled back. So I'm hoping, you know, Walsh coming back is a great thing, um, I think for the event, for Honda, for everyone. Um, not taking anything away from Corey. Corey, you know, what he's doing for Honda is is awesome too, and what they're doing for him, but I think having him in the event's great. Hopefully, myself going to Ducadie brings them into play and they they uh you know see the event as a great opportunity to for the next five or ten years. Um, and then you know, hopefully KTM can offer with that with you know the riders that they can um you know, hopefully their riders do well or that they look to get, you know, bring some new fresh blood in next year as well. Um and I hope it brings Yamaha and even who knows, Kalzaki and things like that back and just kind of give guys in off-road or kids in now kind of scene. Desert is I mean, I know we still only really have a few events, but it's kind of an option, you know. There's there's some rides out there that if there's a kid that doesn't think he shoots motocross, but you know, wants to go fast in the desert, maybe it is an option for him. So um, yeah, no, it's cool. Um hopefully we can um yeah, keep keep pushing it and I'm keen to uh try and make it happen anyway. Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 1:30:37

Yeah, get it back to that 2019 and and prior, kind of before COVID messed everything up and changed budgets and everyone restructured and bits and pieces. Um yeah, because there's you know, there's triumph obviously now in the game, and you've got Beta, big bike, you know, they've got a 480, you've got Sherko are still there kind of still hanging around the finc scene, and yeah, but the beta guys would be cool to see there. And yeah, so that I think you know, it's it's it was there was always gonna be a hangover after the world was stopped for three years, and you know, we're starting to see it across the board start to return to a little bit of normal in the last year or so, and maybe that'll continue in the next couple of years. Um before sorry, before we let you go, I do have a couple of random questions that I want to ask. We love asking these ones. Um, hardest race you've ever done. It could be motocross, supercross, could it be desert, it could be anything. What's the hardest race you've ever done? Oh um, let me think about this one.

SPEAKER_01 1:31:30

Um I would say hardest race. I actually I raced um, I wouldn't say it's a hardest race, but it's probably the most nervous I've been. Is I raced um I'll do two. Um, so I raced the Baja 400 in 2024. So um I got the win at Haddow in 24 um and then not long later went over. I was gonna race the 400 and the 1000 um for a KTM team. I unfortunately got hurt just before the 1000, so I didn't race, but race for 400. Pre-running, I done a week, which was enough to learn the track, but I didn't really get to see many other riders um that I was racing against. I didn't know where my speed was at. The rocks I'd never seen anything like it. It was high speed, rocky tracks kind of gnarly compared to like Finks, a pretty well set out track. You can't really get lost, like unless you take a really bad turn. But the Baja stuff is very different. Um, kind of got to ride, take 20% off, and just ride smart. But I was super, super, super nervous. Um, didn't do, I think I only done about 150 miles of my section, but for sure found that tough trying to go at speed, but hold back from having a big one was gnarly. Um the rocks and the tracks wide, but it felt like it was like a tire width wide, the rocks were that gnarly. Um I rode really well, but for sure I was did not get much sleep before that event time. Just make sure. And also you're an Aussie going over there into their background, and I was kind of looked at a little bit as you know, how is he going to be any good or whatever, whatever? Um, I'd done well, but I was very, very nervous. That was that was brutal. Um and I'm sure the thousand would have been even more tough if I was, you know, to race that one. But that was tough. Um, and again, I've I've raced a couple of mudders. I raced uh in America as well, uh full-blown mudder at um Hangtown. We did a three-hour, it's called a Western Hair Scramble. Uh and it was just full-blown mud. So yeah, that was three hours of full-blown mud brutal.

SPEAKER_00 1:33:37

They can get them over there. Yeah, um, man, there's probably so much more. If we had more time, I'd love to go into some of those Baja stories because I'm sure you got a million of them as even just from that. And and I know Grabbo's talked about times and he's been over there and they, you know, booby trap the tracks and you don't know what's coming around the corner, all this kind of stuff. Uh, we probably need more time. Another one I got for you. What um the teammates, who who has been either the most annoying or um frustrating or annoying, but like still your best mate, but annoying or something teammate that you're like, oh man, I've got to go back to the track with this guy. Have you had one of those?

SPEAKER_01 1:34:13

Um, I'd say probably my like uh honestly, even though we're racing against each other and we're uh what do you call it? Uh rivals this year, Dave Walshe, but I mean, I mean I'm probably the annoying one because I was an 18-year-old coming onto the team. And but mate, I I don't know, we always had this relationship. We we don't even have to speak for it six months, and when we see each other, it's like, yeah, we're you know, we're back together. It's pretty cool. I think the vibe we had that year in 2019, it's just I was young, you know, keen and just probably really annoying, but and in his uh, you know, pissing him off every day. But to have him to like learn off for a whole, you know, and it's gone further than that. We've done a lot of pre-running together the last few years, even on different brands. And I don't know, just a guy that I've you know really enjoyed and been lucky enough to be around up in Alice. Had some motocross, you know, teammates as well that it's been awesome. But I mean, just yeah, getting to spend your time in Alice with him is is pretty cool. But hopefully, I don't know how it feels the same about one.

SPEAKER_00 1:35:14

I can imagine the banter. I've heard the banter was always good between you guys, you two. So yeah, all that electrical. Yeah, it would have been fun to be a fly on the wall for some of those uh chats in the in the under the truck. Um okay, last question I got for you is you mentioned earlier the rally idea, which is you know, like we I said before, I wanted to come back to it. It's really cool. How does that happen? So so so I want to know, like you know, you obviously can't predict the future, but um, are you hoping that Ducaddy might look at producing a rally team in the next 10 years? You're 25, so a lot of rally guys don't start till they're 30. So you know, there's a lot that's a lot of time for a Ducadie, for example, to pick a rally team up. You never know what Triumph might try. We already know that Honda and KDM are in that space and they now look to Australia uh for riders, which is kind of exciting. But how do you make a have you even looked into and how are you envisioning maybe trying to get a seat on a rally bike in the next five to ten years? How does that even work?

SPEAKER_01 1:36:14

So backtrack a couple of years before I get into the caddy stuff. Um, I went over to to kind of wild how it happened again, social media, just a DM, random one from a Chinese guy rocked up in my um, you know, on Instagram and read it. Yep, yep. Back and forth. So he was involved with Cove, um, which uh now racing. Um at the time I was like, oh, this is don't know if it's true or if they're just taking me down the so anyway. Turns out we finish chatting over a few months. I went over to China and I'd done three weeks over there of testing their bike uh in 23 just to, you know, um see they kind of wanted some RD on the bike and what I thought of it. And at this stage I was still pretty fresh. Um was close to committing to something with them at one stage. Um, and then I've over in 24 I'd done a little bit more with them in Dubai, um just bike testing RD. They were developing their bike more, and they just wanted, you know, to get some some info really. And I thought, you know, with that I can get over there, ride the bike, and sort of learn it a little bit and um you know, see what the terrain's like and do a bit of navy stuff. So I've done a done a little bit with with that brand. Um that's still gone no further than what we've done um then. I kind of committed to KPM back here and um thought I need to try and win think and pattern and so on, so on. So um, yeah, would love to, whether it's a brand like that or it's you know the the ultimate guys that are winning at the moment, or again, as you say to Caddy. Hopefully, I think um, you know, they've got some adventury looking Desert X bikes at the moment that are good. And now with an off-road bike, whether they try and blend one. I haven't heard full info if that's definitely happening, but possibly. Um, and like you say, there's you know more and more brands popping up with Triumph and things like that. So it's just trying to get in and it's kind of it's tricky, it's tough. If something pops up, you kind of got to be on it and grab it. Whether it's with I'd love it to be with the caddy and hopefully that does open something up if I'm doing well on their bike here in Australia. Um, and being you know, one of the first cars doing this deserty stuff um might open something up, might never, but I'm hoping it does. Um yeah, and just try and put my name out there and be keen for when an opportunity comes, be be ready. And that was kind of the idea a few years ago is at least, you know, get your feet wet, be ready for when an opportunity does come because you know you'd hate to miss out on one. And I think it's yeah, it'd be great to try and get in, but who knows? It might be it might never happen, but we'd love it to happen.

SPEAKER_00 1:38:44

So it's one of those funny things in our sport where like sometimes you can get lucky that people notice you on the other side of the world and they they need to fill a seat for that particular next two-year gap, you know. And so you get your opportunity, you can be unlucky, and you can kind of be the you know, you you may have been an awesome rally or super cross or whatever is rider, but you just came through at a time where they weren't really looking outside of their own country or their own area because they had guys that could win or whatever it is. Um, I think the the Ducati thing is interesting because we've seen how much they've poured into Moto GP over the last 10 years, so we know that they take their race programs seriously, and they're also happy to fund um you know a race program like a DACA because we everyone knows how expensive it is to go and race DACA. Um, we've seen what what Ducati have put in with you know the likes of Kairoli coming on board to to do all these things to build the Desmo up, they're they're not cheap things to do. You know, they haven't just developed this bike at the back of the factory with a tester you've never heard of and bits and pieces. They're developing bikes in a very expensive way to develop bikes. So they're obviously as a company they're willing to spend the money on that kind of racing. So yeah, Ducati makes sense, I guess, in that space. And then I guess it's just a case of, like you said, the cove guys tapped you on the shoulder and we're like, hey, we've noticed you go fast out in the desert. Is there an opportunity here? And I guess in our industry, there is a lot of that hoping people will notice you. And then occasionally you hear of someone knows someone who knows someone at a race team in Europe, and and that's where they're like, Oh, I've got this guy, it's he's cow, he's 27 now, he's 28, and you know, he's going pretty fast, he's just won the last two Finks or something like that. And you know, if you're looking for a rider, do you have anyone in your group? Have you you've got enough contacts that for people to go and launch into somewhere like Dak or overseas, or is it one of those things where you're like, Who the hell do I talk to or do I need to get in to speak to?

SPEAKER_01 1:40:36

I've been lucky. Um, I know he he's like Chucky's guy, but um uh Julesy from Choice Suspension. Uh so I've been since I was uh seven, little Tacker. Um he was doing my my stuff. So he's kind of obviously learned a lot going over there with with Chucky, and obviously Grabo's been over too. So he's kind of you know relayed a little bit of stuff back to me just with you know how things look over there, because unless you're me not sort of seeing things that you know moving with teams and stuff. Um learning, um, doing a bit with Cove. I know they're a Chinese and company and stuff, but meeting people involved in that company that you know they're pretty invested in the rally stuff too. So sort of going over and riding that bike, and then the whether it's you know that crew that were impressed or another team get wind of it that he was riding that bike and it looked good. Or I've got a few sort of inns, but no like guarantees. But it's just as you say, it's just trying to like say, you know, Charles, not saying it's just uh, you know, what do you call it? Um uh whatever you want to call it, but like someone gets hurt and Charles is there, and oh tell him doing all right, get him over here, and he'll that kind of situation, whether it becomes something like that, or the cove guys ring up and at one stage they wanted to run, you know, more than a couple of guys. So it's sort of just trying to pick that right up or not take an opportunity when it comes, but also don't rush at something silly, but sort of yeah, take it while you can. But it's tough. Uh the cov thing was really bleeding down, um uh and it was close. Um, and I kind of I just thought I'd needed a bit more time here to really submit my I didn't want to, I was still fresh to the game, and I didn't yeah, it was a great opportunity, but I was kind of a million bit. So uh but yeah, I'm hope I'm hoping that something comes, but as we say, just never know, we'll see how we go.

SPEAKER_00 1:42:26

The man the cove thing's another one of those sliding door moments, like what a career trajectory difference it could have been. Who knows? Like you said, it could have been a failure, it could have been a success, you kind of don't know, and you just got to make these calls at that age to go, you know what, I think I need more time over here. Um, and and it is the dead the rally thing, especially, it is specifically unique because I feel like in motocross and supercross, if you're a Blake Bahanan, right, and you win everything here, and then he goes over and let's just say he decides to go and do Lorettas and he cleans up at Lorettas, there might be a chance, kind of similar with Minier, where one of those factory teams are gonna go, this guy's pretty good. Oh, look, he's racing a Yamaha in the US. Hey, they'll tap you know Scottie Bishop on the shoulder and say, Can you send him our way or whatever it is, uh, for a little bit. And and I feel like there is an easier in, if there is actually, you know, if that word exists, easier in that space than the rally scene. The rally scene is a tricky one to get noticed for people to see what you're doing. Um, so yeah, it's it's it's really interesting to hear how you make that happen and how that goes about. I've asked Chucky similar questions. I'm like, where how the rally thing come about? And he's a bit the same. He's like, honestly, like we had no racing during COVID, and bits and pieces were happening, and I was just looking for rides, and they just came up to me and said, Oh, actually, hey, we need someone to fill this spot at this particular time until we take that opportunity. Yeah, so yeah, yeah. Rally is a funny one like that. But hey, like you said, the benefit of rally is you can ride beyond the age of 35 um for a factory team and still do it, make it make a living out of it. And there's not many people who can say the same thing in the motocross, supercross world um and off-road so uh enduro. So, yeah, it is a cool thing to look forward to for your future. Um, mate, we're gonna leave it there because I've dragged on and I've I've kept you for nearly two hours. Um, it's so interesting. Uh, there's there's so many more kind of questions I've got, probably more so about your career and bits and pieces and Lorettas and the Cove situation. Man, I'd love to unpack the whole Cove thing because you know, even that bike itself, it's like you don't see them in Australia. I believe they're coming into Australia, but you don't really see any. We want to know what they're doing in the rally sprace, you know, all that kind of stuff. So it might be worth uh touching bass with you again, especially maybe at the end of the year, once you've had a chance to do Think on the Decaddy, do Hatter on the Decaddy and whatever other little races pop up and get get you back on the podcast and just talk about what it was like now that you've done it, as opposed to now what we think it's gonna be like. So, mate, thanks for coming on, and I think it'd be great if we catch up later in the year.

SPEAKER_01 1:44:46

Nah, for sure.

SPEAKER_00 1:44:46

Nah, thank you for having me on, and nah, definitely we'll definitely have to do it and dive into a few stories for sure.

SPEAKER_01 1:44:51

It'd be great. So thanks, Ethan, mate.

SPEAKER_00 1:44:54

Awesome, thanks, Cal.