EP#53 - Hamish Macdonald on his rise from NZ to Enduro GP World Champ!

We’ve got Hamish Macdonald on the podcast and if you follow EnduroGP, you know how fast this bloke is!

The Kiwi has built one of the most complete careers in modern enduro, climbing the ladder the hard way. He’s a former Youth World Champion (2019), backed it up with the Junior World Championship in 2020, and has now gone all the way to the top, claiming the 2025 Enduro3 World Championship with Sherco Racing Factory. That makes him a three-time world champ across three different classes, which is no small feat in a sport this stacked. 

What stands out with Macdonald is how methodical his rise has been. He’s been consistently in the mix in EnduroGP for years, podiums, top-three finishes, and battling factory teammates week in, week out before finally cracking that senior title. 

In this episode, we get into what it actually takes to go from a fast junior to a world champion in the toughest off-road series on the planet the mindset, the grind, and what separates the good guys from the ones holding the #1 plate.

Transcript

SPEAKER_00 0:00

Welcome to the ADB podcast, where we take all things dirty with your host lead. Welcome back to another ADB podcast, guys. We um are interviewing one of our friends from across the ditch, Hamish McDonald, or I shouldn't say we, I should say our New Zealand correspondent and all things kiwi, Simon Macca. Maca has been uh contributing to ADB for well decades. In fact, he used to work on ADB decades ago as well as an official staff member. He now does a lot of interviews and uh picks up some pretty cool stories uh from around New Zealand, Australia, and even the globe. So we got uh Macca to sit down and interview Hamish McDonald. Hamish McDonald is a world champion on a shirko, he's from New Zealand, and the reason we wanted to learn more about Hamish McDonald is because we don't really know much about him. We feel like he's kind of silently gone about his job and achieved some pretty impressive results without much fanfare. So we hit up Macca and said, mate, can you sit down with your fellow countrymen and ask him what's going on? What's uh happened in his life to get to this point. So now before we jump into this pretty cool interview, we do have to thank our sponsors. We Dunlop is supporting the show. So we thank Dunlop for uh yeah, giving us some tyres to use and bits and pieces so we can get out there and do the testing that you guys listen to on this podcast. Uh so big thanks to Dunlop and also to Sherko. Shirko uh have a pretty good uh comparison rate, interest rate on some of their new bikes. You can go out and get a uh factory 2026 2 stroke uh at some pretty sharp, pretty good comparison rates. You've got 3.89% comparison rate over two years, or 4.89% comparison rate over three years. That's through the Sherko Fast Finance. So go have a look at the Sherco Two-stroke range, the 2026 models. They're pretty bloody good. We've ridden them all uh and they have won shootouts with us, and uh yeah, they've obviously, you guys you're gonna find out soon with uh Hamish McDonald, they've also won world titles on that bike, so it's pretty it's pretty impressive. So go check out Sherko.com.au and look for the Sherko Fast Finance. Anyway, without further ado, here is Simon Maka uh sitting down with Hamish McDonald to talk about Hamish's rise to glory in the injuro GP.

SPEAKER_01 2:16

Well, be saying with you because you know, um shit for a world champ three-time world champion now, like you're probably the most under recognised, least recognised three-time world champion from either like New Zealand, New Zealand and Australia.

SPEAKER_03 2:35

It's like I had people calling me up saying, Oh, um there's been no nothing on the news, there's been nothing in the paper. I'm like, yeah, I haven't had anybody reach out to me, I haven't had anybody call me, anybody wanting to do any interviews, nothing. And then I get like this one message from um like an up-and-coming news reporter. It was about I think I did the interview in December, December or early January. Like it was it was like two months after I'd won. And it was just like a little blurb in the like for like an up and coming um journalist, you know, like it wasn't even a anything, yeah, anything special. And I and like I had friends calling one news, I had friends speaking to um reporters and everything, and they're like, Oh yeah, blah blah blah, it's not important, or this and that, and it's just like oh you get to a point where you just give up, you know, like yeah, and for me in New Zealand, like the like what I feel is I could go to a track here and people would recognize me. And I mean, I went and I'm looking for an apartment at the moment, and I was just um messaging people about apartments to rent, and one guy actually knew who I was, and he was like, Oh, come check my apartment out, blah blah blah. And he was like, Oh yeah, and he wish like he knew who I was if I could go to a track here and people would know who I am, and you know, kids wanting autographs or goggles or something, and then you go home and there's just none of that.

SPEAKER_01 4:24

It's so weird, eh?

SPEAKER_03 4:26

Even like where I'm from, yeah, it's just I don't know. I feel like a lot of it's just the tall poppy syndrome as well.

SPEAKER_01 4:35

Yeah, for sure. Because I mean, yeah, because I'm I'm assuming like Shirko and that would have put out media releases, but because even like I don't even think it might have been little news stories here and there at the time, but it was like it was nothing really. Um considering what, because you're the first world champ, Kiwi world enduro world champion since what Stephen Merriman or something, right?

SPEAKER_03 4:55

Yeah, I think I think so. I don't well I don't even think Stefan was classed as being Kiwi.

SPEAKER_01 5:03

Obviously, we're we know he's born we know he's born in um New Zealand, but yeah, it's uh Yeah, he was he was probably more classed as an as an Australian than a than a Kiwi. Um you have a New Zealand passport from memory, but yeah, he and I think he's born in Towering or something from memory. Um but yeah, um but yeah, he spent pretty much all his life in in Australia, so I think that he's sort of like a default Australian. Um so in that respect, then yeah, you're the first one. So yeah.

SPEAKER_03 5:40

No, it's pretty, I mean, it's pretty, it's pretty cool to say that, I suppose. Um I was yeah, it's like uh I don't know, I don't really like nothing's really changed to be honest. Um yeah, it's like the weirdest thing for me was since I won the championship, it's been like, well shit, what do I focus on now? What do I what do I set my goals at, you know, because I'd constantly had that that um that sight set on being a world champion, and as soon as it happened, it was like, oh shit, yeah what happens now? I'm um I'm I don't really have a goal anymore. So that's kind of what I've that's kind of what I've been trying to figure out and work on now, I suppose, is that and yeah.

SPEAKER_01 6:38

What have you landed on? You just like I mean they say it's there's that saying, you know, it's harder to defend a title than it is to win the first one anyway. Um yeah. So I guess that's that's something to sort of like you know try and try and aim towards this year.

SPEAKER_03 6:54

Yeah, exactly. So that's what I've been trying to do, is just trying to kind of figure out what I'm up to now and what I need to set my sights on. And it's I mean it's kind of been refreshing because I don't feel like I've got any pressure to do anything now. I've got to go out and race and obviously do as best as I can, but at the end of the day, if I win another title or not, it's not really gonna change what I'm proud of, you know. If I win one, two, three, or four, even ten, like the goal at the at the at the start of me coming to Europe was to be a world champion. Yeah, and I did that once with the with the youth youth class, so it was like, oh yeah, you are a world champion, but you're not a world champion in the elite class. Then I won the juniors the year after, and it was like, oh yeah, I've got a shot at winning the the world championship now, you know, like it's uh all the kind of steps for me to be an elite world champion are there, and then obviously 2022, I was riding really good. I was leading the Italian championship, and um, I was leading the world championship in Portugal when I crashed and um basically destroyed my knee. Um I had a knee surgery, and and that was kind of the IO, you know, was that preseason and those first five, six races in um in the world championship in 2022, where I was like, yeah, I can actually I can do this. I've got, you know, like you kind of see you see what you can and you can't do as you as you kind of come through the ranks, and that was like, yeah, I can do it. And then obviously kind of just to have that taken away from me, then and there was like shit, like I want to get that feeling back.

unknown 8:52

And so I've always had that goal since then is I can do it.

SPEAKER_03 8:56

I I I've got the speed, I've got the capability to do it. Just when is it gonna happen? And obviously happened last year, and um now that it's happened, I'm like pretty happy with my career, and you know, like we're just gonna see where it goes now. I'm still gonna ride 100% and give a hundred percent effort like I always do. But if I win one more or I don't win one, I'm I'm still happy with my career, and yeah.

SPEAKER_01 9:29

Yeah, for sure. That's a good way to look at it because I guess the pressure's off. Yeah, exactly.

SPEAKER_03 9:35

And when I I mean I won on the Saturday, so we still had to race on the Sunday in Germany, and that was the best day of riding I I think I've ever had. Like the pressure was gone. I was like I was the world champion, I could ride how I wanted to ride, and I I won a few tests that day and I was battling for I think the overall lead by the last lap, and then yeah, it was just it felt easy, it felt like I could ride how I wanted to ride, and and yeah, yeah, for sure. So I think um yeah, I think that kind of just goes to show what your mind is capable of and when it's under pressure and you're stressed, like how how much you think about what you're doing, yeah, more than just doing it. Yeah, yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_01 10:31

It's just like you can tell yourself you can tell yourself as much as you want, but you know, you you just try and enjoy it, blah blah blah. But there it is always there at the back of your head. Um, pressure, so um, and it does affect your performance, absolutely.

SPEAKER_03 10:48

Yeah, and I think yeah, I think the main thing is is just like knowing what you can do and and believing in yourself with it. And I think winning that world championship has taught me a lot, kind of just in life in general, like you can have everything, and then there's moments where it can all be taken away as well. Like I crashed a few times throughout the season and actually broke a few small bones of my hands um at one of the races and actually tore one of my ligaments on my knee again, and it was like fuck that like it's only one lapse of concentration and it can all be taken away from you, you know. I was lucky that like I was still able to ride, but it was just yeah. Yeah, like I think when it's your first one as well, you're constantly kind of it feels like you're treading on eggshells a little bit because it's there, it's thereabouts, but it's not certain it's gonna happen, you know.

SPEAKER_01 11:54

Yeah, yeah, for sure. Yeah, there's still you're still all those um the variables come into play a little bit more. Um, you probably think about the variables a lot more, I should say.

SPEAKER_03 12:05

Um, and I think that's where like the pressure and and not even the pressure, well, it would be classed as pressure, but you don't think of it as pressure at the time. Yeah, you know, like even just going out training, it was like, oh, I need to do kind of what I need to do, but don't do anything more in case something happens, you know, like don't be stupid, don't go out and ride just because you want to ride, you know, go out and ride to do a job and to do it properly, you know, instead of just kind of fluffing around, etc. etc.

SPEAKER_01 12:43

No playwrighting, don't do anything silly.

SPEAKER_03 12:47

Yeah, yeah, you've always got a play ride and you've always got to enjoy it, but you know, it's just it's just one of those things, like yeah, it can be taken away from you so easily.

SPEAKER_01 13:01

Take us through the um the um that crap you said you hurt your knee earlier this season. Um what ligament did you do and and w what round was that at?

SPEAKER_03 13:11

Uh was at the Italian championship. I did my uh NCL, which is the one on the inside. Yep. So yeah, that um basically at the final round of the Italian championship, there was these two log doubles, and I hit the first one, and then I had a lapse of concentration, like I kind of just thought I can get over the second one, but it was like scooped out too much. And in that split second, I didn't commit to it and just plowed into it way too hard, and then um went over the handlebars, and the bike basically just landed on my knee, on the side of my knee. Yeah, and as soon as I got up, I was like, oh no, like it's my world championship over, and then I cruised around the rest of the test and finished the day, and I was like, nah, this is there's something wrong. So I got an MRI straight away, and yeah, it was basically that. So luckily it was just painful. Like I still had full stability and everything was still good, but it was just a bit of a scare, to be honest.

SPEAKER_01 14:21

Yeah, because once you've done it and you know that the re the rehab and stuff involved, I guess it is always in the back of your mind whenever you have a crash, it's like my knee, you know, or yeah, anything like that.

SPEAKER_03 14:32

So I know, and and when it was that same kind of injury that I felt took it all away from me in 2022, it was like fuck, like if this has happened again, I'm gonna be so pissed off. Yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_01 14:48

Because you would yeah, 2022, you were doing pretty well when you when you crashed. Yeah, was that the third was it the second round or third round of the of the worlds?

SPEAKER_03 14:58

I think it was the second round in Portugal. Second round of the world championship. Um yeah, we I think we had already done four or five Italian rounds. Yeah, and I think Anieroff won, oh I won. I know I won two or three of them.

SPEAKER_01 15:16

Yeah. Of the of the of the Italians. Of the Italians, yeah, that yeah. Yeah, yeah. Oh awesome. Um I'm just curious, you know, when you did the world uh the youth and junior um world championships, how did how did all that come about? Like what was the driver for you to go to Europe and stuff in the first place?

SPEAKER_03 15:39

Um basically I seen it's a bit of a funny story. In 2016, obviously, Matthew Phillips was racing and um Sky Sport um Sky Sport aired a um oh the full recap video, it was like a 30-minute recap of the every round.

SPEAKER_02 16:03

Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 16:04

And I figured that out and I started watching it, and I kind of had a bit of an insight to the world championship before that. Um but I never really kind of knew too much about it, and so I was watching these and I was I was sat there one day and it was the final round in Fabriano in Italy, and Jack Edmondson, who was the youth champion that year, there was a bit of like an inside story on him, and it was him speaking and his dad showing him this line over the rocks, and anyway, he went over these rocks and and fell off, and anyway, his dad kind of throws his hands in there and kind of gets a bit pissed off, and and I was like, fuck, this guy's a world champion, he can't even ride over rocks. Yeah, well I could do that, like I was like, yeah, I could do that, like classic, classic couch potato, you know, like so. I was like, fuck, who is this guy? Like, so I went on his Instagram, whatever, like yeah, I can smoke this guy, blah blah blah. So I sent a few emails and um I didn't hear back from anybody, and I was shirk I was writing for Shirka at the time in New Zealand, yeah, but they didn't have a 125. Yeah. So I bought uh an old YZ125 for 1800 bucks from the West Coast, and I was like, yeah, I'm just gonna start writing this thing and see if anybody replies to my emails, and then um anyway, nobody replied. So I I got the email from the Sherco team here, yeah, and basically it was just an email to um ask if they I could be a customer basically for the the season, and they were like, yep, yeah, we can do that. Um just gotta pay X amount, basically.

SPEAKER_02 18:00

Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 18:01

So I was like, yeah, sweet, like do that, lock it in. Mum and dad gave me a loan of$25,000, I think, that year to to kind of go and chase my dream. And I was working at the time as a landscaper, so I had a bit of money saved up, and I was like, How are you gonna go and try and do this? And went over there in 2018, rock up, and um Jack Edmondson was my teammate, was the guy that had inspired me. He was riding in the junior class that year. Um, and anyway, I went riding and yeah, I finished fourth both days at the first GDP, yeah, and then Jack didn't have anybody um to ride with in England, so he was like, Why don't you come live with me and my dad and do some riding at home and kind of see where this goes? And I was like, shit, yeah, like this is I can't turn down this opportunity, yeah. Um so yeah, that's kind of how it all started, and it's a bit of a funny story, but that's kind of just yeah, it kind of just worked out in a good way, and those guys took me under their wing, and yeah, that's 2018, yeah. And I finished that I finished the championship in second that year, so the team were like, yep, come back next year, we'll give you a kind of a better bike, and we'll give you some money to if you get on the podium, but you still have to pay. And I won the first race, and I was like, No, I'm not paying anymore.

SPEAKER_01 19:39

Yeah, if you want me to stay, and they were like, Yep, sweet, you can stay then. Yeah, nice. Oh, so you you were just on like just on championship bonuses or po uh like results bonuses at that stage.

SPEAKER_03 19:50

In 2019, yeah.

SPEAKER_01 19:51

Yeah, yeah. So when did you get full-time pay? Or would it be for the next next round? Uh next year, sorry. So that was when you went to juniors, yeah. So that's pretty good, even like to even as a junior just you know be earning uh okay, that's probably okay-ish money, I guess, over there.

SPEAKER_03 20:11

Yeah, I think we were we were one of the only teams that really were paying junior riders at the time, I think. Um so I was pretty lucky to be getting a wage out of that, and yeah, I won. I mean, that was the year of COVID as well, so yeah, we had pay cuts and everything, but I just wanted to race that year, and I just I mean, I kind of went crazy with the racing. Uh, I did four championships that year, I won all four championships. I think I finished on the podium at every single race I did. I've got in my diary somewhere, and I because we were we came over and I was meant to race the world championship and the German championship. Those are my two races, two championships for 2020.

SPEAKER_02 21:02

Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 21:02

So I come over here and basically COVID started happening, and they start cancelling these races, and we were kind of just traveling around trying to escape it. And I was in Germany, I was like, nah, bugger this, I'm gonna fly home. So I flew home, and then we still had the New Zealand championship, so I was like, hell yeah, I'll I'll um race in this, yeah, and I'll still be able to get some bonus. So I ended up buying a bike off a mate that fit he had blown up, and I rebuilt it, a Sherko 300 two-stroke, and I went and raced four rounds of the I think I raced two rounds actually on that bike, and then I got my four stroke up and running and won the championship there in New Zealand, and then um came back over here, went and raced in England of the sprint championship, won a championship there. The sprint title. Then I won the Junior Um World Championship. And then I won the German championship as well. So it was like it was kind of my first year of making some money. So I was like real pumped on just racing where I could and racing everything for anything.

SPEAKER_01 22:20

So yeah, just to see the checks rolling.

SPEAKER_03 22:24

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 22:24

Yeah. So that's pretty crazy you managed to do that many championships with COVID happening and and you know travel being affected all around the world as well.

SPEAKER_03 22:34

Um I think yeah, I think kind of why it worked out that way is people were kind of just not really there wasn't really a set championship, so there was kind of just races popping up, and I was like, yeah, I'll go do it, I'll go do this, I'll go do that. And then it turned out that I kind of locked in a few championships, and I just happened to be riding good that year and won them all. So yeah.

SPEAKER_01 23:01

Exactly. Yeah. Good time to do it. Um, how did that that would have seen his stocks rise a fair bit going to seniors, having you know the youth and then the junior world championship under your belt. Do you get any other teams sort of like sniffing around or anything, or were you locked in with Sherko?

SPEAKER_03 23:17

Um, I had a one-year deal on the 125, and then I signed two years for 2020-2021.

unknown 23:25

Okay.

SPEAKER_03 23:26

And obviously I won the title in 2020 and then moved up 2021. And then I just I got luck, I was getting decent money from Shirko, so I didn't really feel the need to go elsewhere.

unknown 23:41

The bike was good, um, the team were good.

SPEAKER_03 23:45

Um, they were pushing for me to stay, and it kind of had leverage because I was riding good. Yeah. And I think at the time it was kind of me. I would say it was me. I was probably the one that had progressed the most in the past three years. So I think I had a bit of obviously a bit of luck on my side, and yeah, I managed to get quite a good contract from Shirko early on, so that was good. And I I did have a few offers, but none of them kind of made me feel like I needed to go there, you know.

SPEAKER_01 24:29

Yeah, sure.

SPEAKER_03 24:30

Yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_01 24:31

Yeah. How did how did how was the Italian like getting used to the whole Italian way of life as well when you as a junior? And or right through, really, because I'm assuming when you went over, you wouldn't have known that much Italian. Um, and I'm sure now you probably know you're probably pretty pro proficient with it. Um how was it at the start, you know, trying to communicate with the team and getting bike set up and everything with that with that language barrier?

SPEAKER_03 25:00

Yeah, the language barrier is definitely difficult, but lucky luckily enough, like the team speak good English and they kind of understand what you need. I guess from the outside, looking from the outside, you you on the bike, they already know what they need to change, I suppose, or what the rider needs. Yep. So I mean, there's definitely been times where there's been communication issues, and it's but it's I mean, it's it's one of those things you kind of just have to accept and and kind of deal with at the time, and they work hard enough to like if I need something changed, they're more than happy to change it, and yeah.

SPEAKER_01 25:45

Yeah, that's cool. Yeah, so when you when you you first stepped up and you were in E2 for three years from memory, right? Um, how did how did you find that step from the juniors up to seniors?

SPEAKER_03 26:00

Um, it was definitely a big gap. Like obviously, you you riding in the junior class, you kind of have big gaps between times. Like you could win a race by kind of 30-40 seconds in the juniors, but 30-40 seconds in the elite class like will put you from first to 10th kind of thing. Sure. So it's like yeah, it's it's kind of works out like you have to be on it. Yeah. Like there's no room for mistakes. Whereas in the juniors, you could have a crash or you could kind of stall the bike a few times throughout the day and and still get away with it, but you crash one time and you're not like and you're not 100% there in the GP class, then you lose a lot of time. Like eight seconds in one test can can throw your whole day off.

SPEAKER_01 27:02

Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 27:03

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 27:04

Yeah, for sure.

SPEAKER_03 27:05

That's the that's the biggest thing, and it's not really it's not really like you ride any different. It's just more that everybody's a whole lot closer. And you can be um, yeah, you can be riding really good and still be like, I don't know, two or three seconds, and you could jump three or four positions, you know, just from those two or three seconds. Yeah. At the end of the day.

SPEAKER_01 27:35

And on the flip side as well, you know, you could probably come out of a test thinking, hell yeah, smoke that, and then look at the times and you realize you're still like five seconds off the pace or whatever, as well. So it could go both ways.

SPEAKER_03 27:48

Yeah, and then it's definitely like that. And yeah, I mean, you can't really be too mad because looking at it, I mean, the older I get, the more I look at it that I'm riding with the people that I used to look up to, you know. Like the guys I'm racing with now are the guys that when I was at home I was looking up to. So it's it's pretty special, and like you kind of just have to stop and have a think about it for a second and just go, shit, yeah. I'm racing at the world championship, I'm racing at the top level, I'm a factory rider. Like the 15-year-old me would give anything to have just a turn on this bike, so it's like yeah, you can come out of the test and you're pissed off, but at the end of the day, it's it's one of those things that's like uh a frustrating thing, but also such a nice thing as well.

SPEAKER_01 28:48

Yeah, yeah, sort of like a motivating thing at the same time, yeah. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Yeah, that's cool. Um, sweet. So have let's um talk a bit about your championship last year, 2025. Um you didn't finish any lower than second. I had to look through the results just to make sure that of this, but you didn't finish any lower than second all year. You're first to second every single round, right? Yeah, yeah, that's yeah, that's pretty impressive. Like how how what was the difference for you this year compared to last year then? Um was in like from 2024 to 2025, I mean.

SPEAKER_03 29:28

Yeah. 2024, Brad Freeman was there. 2025, he was injured.

SPEAKER_01 29:35

Okay.

SPEAKER_03 29:36

So Freeman was not there, but I think generally, like, I actually felt better on the bike. We had a much better setting on the bike. We were much more prepared with the bike. I think the team learned a lot kind of from having me ride that bike in 2024. That when I came back in uh yeah, we learned a lot in 2024 to come back in 2025 and have like a much better base. So yeah, I think that was a big kind of improvement. And just I think myself also having the knowledge of the bike, having a year already on that bike was a big gap.

SPEAKER_01 30:20

Yeah, yeah, for sure. What was the um the what was behind the change to go from E2 to E3? Was that a change that you wanted to make, or was that something the team um asked you to do?

SPEAKER_03 30:32

Um, it was I think looking back at it now, it was a bit of both. Like I wanted to do the I wanted to change, I wanted to try a different bike. Um, but also Rop was well, Rop was riding the four stroke and he didn't want to ride the two stroke.

unknown 30:51

Sure.

SPEAKER_03 30:52

So the first year he was on the team, we both rode the four stroke, and then 20, yeah, that was 20. Shit, when was that?

SPEAKER_01 31:02

24.

SPEAKER_03 31:04

Yeah, that was 20. That was actually last year. That was 20, that was 23. 23, I rode the four stroke and he rode the four-stroke. 2024, he rode the four-stroke, and I was on the two-stroke.

SPEAKER_01 31:17

Yeah. Um, and this this year was a well last year was a breakout year for Sherko as well, especially in your class, because you got Sherko was top three overall, right? In in E3. Um, and they were were they all your teammates?

SPEAKER_03 31:32

Yeah. Yeah, that's they I mean they they ride for Sherko, so there's kind of two teams in Sherco, but we all merge into one at the racing. Sure. Um, so there's the factory, which they run out of France. And then there's where I am in Italy, which is CH Racing, which is um Fabrizio Azzaline, which is yeah, he's the let's say the main team.

SPEAKER_02 32:00

Yep.

SPEAKER_03 32:01

They just kind of bring their bikes in sprinter vans and then pit under our awning.

SPEAKER_01 32:07

Oh, okay. I see how it works. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Yeah. That would I mean that's that would have been pretty tough though. You can't get too much better than that, like locking up the podium of the class.

SPEAKER_03 32:18

Yeah. No, for sure. Yeah, that's good it's gonna be a it's you'd imagine the boss would be pretty happy, wouldn't you?

SPEAKER_01 32:25

Yeah. Help secure some sponsorship and some money for you know for the next couple of seasons at least.

SPEAKER_03 32:31

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 32:31

Yeah. Yeah. How were the nerves for you getting going into Germany? Obviously, you'd done all the hard work in the lead up, but were you still feeling a bit of pressure on your shoulders?

SPEAKER_03 32:41

Um, I think Germany was kind of like I had one. I think if we rewind back to the start, like I went 1-1 in Portugal the first race, and I was like, yeah, I kind of was like, I can do this. I know I've got the speed, I know I'm faster than um the guy I was battling with, Antoine McGahn. I was like, I know I'm faster than him, I know I can do this, so let's just go through the season and do it. And then um, yeah, I was it had come to Germany and I'd won a lot throughout the year, and I was just like, I was pretty much certain that I could do it. I was my game plan was go into the first day and see what happens. If I'm if I'm comfortable and confident I can do it, I was gonna try and push to do it on Saturday, and luckily that's what happened, and then obviously the backup plan was if that didn't happen, I think I needed to finish seventh or eighth on Sunday to do it. So yeah, it was kind of uh one of those yeah, one of those things.

SPEAKER_01 33:58

So yeah, you sort of have you sort of level up, you yeah, you to uh well you I guess at that stage it's like it's more about managing, really, isn't it? It's not about trying to push yourself too hard to you know it's not like an all or nothing situation, it's almost like damage control a little bit.

SPEAKER_03 34:14

Yeah, it was like that, and I think it was just like I knew I could do it, I just needed everything to happen, and Sunday I snatched my chain guide off, and a bunch of stuff happened that could have really gone to shit, but luckily, luckily it didn't. So yeah.

SPEAKER_01 34:35

That's cool. How did how do you deal with pressure? Um, in those sort of situations, you know, where it's like you you kind of have to perform at a certain level. I mean, it's like that pretty much every round you're at, especially last year when you're you know you're fighting so hard for a world championship. How do you how do you deal with pressure and um are there any techniques that you use that work for you?

SPEAKER_03 34:58

Um not really. I just kind of yeah, it's like I think it's just kind of you've got to take it as it comes. The pressure's it's a privilege to have pressure, isn't it? So you've gotta kind of almost step back and look at why you've got the pressure and why you're in that position to have pressure and I I mean I c I don't think I put too much pressure on myself. Um I don't like I'm definitely annoyed when things don't happen how I want them to happen, but yeah it's not it's not like before a race I've got these expectations. I mean I know what I can do and I know that if I go and ride how I normally ride, then what I'm capable of. It's is when you go to those races and kind of stuff goes wrong, or like you derail a chain, or you have a few too many crashes, or you're just not kind of feeling 100% physically, because that can happen as well. Um it's just yeah, that's that's more the annoying things that happen, and I don't yeah, the pressures just I yeah, just deal with I guess.

SPEAKER_01 36:30

Yeah, that's all that's all good. Um that's sweet. So I don't know this myself, so this is why I'm asking the question. It might be a stupid question. So, what's the difference between the enduro GP class and like the E2, E3 class? Is it the it's is the enduro GP is the outright, is that right? Is that how it works over there?

SPEAKER_03 36:51

Yeah, so if you imagine it E1, E2, E3, they're the three elite classes. Yeah, those are just engine categories. So E1 is 254 stroke and 252 stroke, E2 is over 254 stroke up to 454 stroke, so that's four stroke only. Yeah, and then E3 is over 252 stroke and over 454 stroke. Yeah. So you've got those three classes there, and basically the enduro GP class is a class within those three. It's not even really a class, it's just a name for the overall.

SPEAKER_01 37:35

Yeah, so it's not the outright.

SPEAKER_03 37:37

So yeah, so the outright is just called the Enduro GP. It's not it's not even a class, there's not even uh I mean there's an Enduro GP world champion, but it's it's kind of only a new thing that they've bought in to kind of do that. I don't really know why, because it takes the it takes the prestige out of the E1, E2, E3 classes, and for the manufacturers, it makes it more difficult because you imagine you have Hamish McDonald that's the E3 champion, you can solely promote that. Yeah, and Joseph Garcia is the E1 champion with the 250 KTM, they can promote that, and then Verona is the 450, the E2 champion with the 450. You know, you can promote those three different bikes equally as three different world champions. Um, and I mean there's always kind of gonna be the bragging rights is oh, I'm the fastest, um I beat you all today, or whatever, but it yeah, like it's like on paper we are all kind of fighting for to be the fastest against one another, whether you're on whatever bike you're on, but at the end of the day, like it's kind of yeah, I guess I guess now it's merged into that because there's not as many riders as there used to be. I think now we've kind of got 10 right ten or so riders in each class. Whereas I think back in the day, like 2008, 2009, there was 30 to 40 riders in each class, so it was a lot more competitive between guys in their classes. Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 39:30

Um it's quite funny because the mentality in Australia is like, you know, the outright is the all-important one, you know, at the ALICs or the uh Australian Championship, as it's called now. Like it's like, you know, that's what that's what they're all gun for. Like if they win the class, they're like, oh yeah, that's cool, but you know, I really want to be the outright winner.

SPEAKER_03 39:53

Um but when there's yeah, but when there's world titles on the line and you like my bonus is only for my class, I don't get anything for outrights.

SPEAKER_01 40:05

Oh, okay.

SPEAKER_03 40:05

So for me, the outright doesn't like it does I and I mean and I know I know a lot of the other people don't get money for the outright either.

SPEAKER_02 40:16

Wow.

SPEAKER_03 40:17

So it's like uh it's more of just a bragging right than obviously if you're in Australia or New Zealand, then if you're an an E1 or E2 champion, nobody really cares. But if you're the outright champion, then it's like, yeah, you're the you're the one to beat. But I mean, here it's a little bit different.

SPEAKER_01 40:41

Yeah. Interesting, yeah. It's interesting how it's different. The emphasis is different um between the two between the countries, um, as to what's important.

SPEAKER_03 40:53

And I think that's like yeah, I think that's like what I've kind of found out now is I needed to stop kind of chasing the goal of especially last yeah, of just riding inside my class. You know, if I was battling, say, somebody that was in E1 or E2, and I I was a second behind going into the last test, but I had 10 or 15 seconds to who was in second in my class, I just kind of had to think it's not worth going for that extra second for like yeah, one position in the overall ranking where at the end of the day nobody's gonna care where I finished in in 10 years at the Italian GP or like it's much better if I'm world champion at the end of the season, you know.

SPEAKER_01 41:45

Yeah, that's right. Yeah. And especially if there's no recognition financially, or you know, as well to go up the to climb yourself up that ladder and put in that extra effort and take on that extra risk at the same time.

SPEAKER_02 42:00

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 42:01

Oh, that's that's crazy, yeah. Um, interesting. So there's no real um incentive, is it you can't really use that yourself personally as a as a goal going forward then? Like, you know, you sort of mentioned right at the start, you know, you know, it's a bit tricky to you know reset your goals and stuff after you won a championship. What could you use that as an incentive then like to you know push for an injuro GP out there?

SPEAKER_03 42:27

That's what I'm that's what I'm focusing on now because I've done the class, I'm I've kind of set my goal this year is to win races in the overall or try and win a few races in the overall. And when that happens, then I feel like another championship could be on. Yeah.

unknown 42:47

Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 42:47

That's the way I'm kind of looking at it. It's just I don't I've I think I've just changed my mindset on it a little bit now as as to yeah, as the focus has shifted a little bit and the way of thinking has shifted a little bit, I think.

SPEAKER_01 43:06

Yeah. That's awesome.

SPEAKER_03 43:08

Which I think, which I think some of the other guys have had earlier because they've won titles a little bit earlier, like Verona, Garcia, Freeman, Holcomb. They're already five, six-time world champions, so they they don't care about winning the class anymore. They care about the overall.

SPEAKER_02 43:26

Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 43:28

Whereas I think their first time winning the class would be focused on that.

SPEAKER_01 43:33

It's like that stepping stone type thing. You what you win one and then you can go, okay, I'll tick that box now. What's the next box along the way? Exactly. Yeah, nice. So, what's the plan after 2026? I mean, you're still you know what are you, 26? Are you 26?

SPEAKER_03 43:49

Yeah, I'm 26 now.

SPEAKER_01 43:50

Yeah, it's I mean you've still got plenty of gas that's in the tank. Um so where do you where do you go from here? Do you just you're gonna stay over in Europe for a fair while?

SPEAKER_03 44:00

Um, I don't really know. I was kind of just gonna see how this season goes and I'm contracted next year. Yeah. Um And I I'm was just gonna see if I still enjoy it or not. Still kind of I'm still I mean there's a there was kind of a point where I didn't really have that focus and I didn't really know what my goals were where I was just like shit, I probably could have just stayed at home, to be honest, and and enjoyed something else, and enjoyed putting my shifting my focus towards something else in my life.

SPEAKER_02 44:40

Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 44:41

Um which is a little bit kind of a a weird thing to say because it's my life since like for a long time has been to focus, and that's been my goal is to win that championship. And I don't know, it's a little bit, I guess you kind of have these times in your life where your focus shifts and something else might come up and that might be what you want to do. Like for example, start a business or have a family or do stuff like that. It's it's a bit hard to do that when you're 100%, 110% focused on racing and um your whole life surrounds motorbikes, you know. Yeah, so it's I mean it's it's been a bit of a difficult time to be honest, not gonna lie, but it's all a learning curve, and yeah, I think now that I'm over here and now that I'm back riding and enjoying it, it's changed a little bit, but I'll definitely move home when my contract's done, and I guess I'll just kind of have a bike and ride it every now and then and probably do a few races, do a bit of motocross, and yeah.

SPEAKER_01 46:00

No plans to do anything in like in Australia or anything if any opportunities came up there?

SPEAKER_03 46:05

Yeah, definitely. I've I I would like to. I would like to go. Um I looked into going to America, yeah. Um, but financially there wasn't enough money there for me, so I was just like, um, just gonna do another two years here.

SPEAKER_01 46:24

That's cool. Awesome. Oh, let's just yeah, that's it is one of those things though. Like I I haven't found that myself because from when I was like a teenager, my goal was to be like an editor of a motocross magazine. Um so like by the time I was 27, I was well when I turned 27, I was like, um, I got the editor of I was editor of Freerider magazine. Um I was like, well shit, what do I do now? What do we do now? Like I'm looking at it's that whole same same thing as you gotta try and find new goals, um new things to keep yourself motivated, and it does take a while. Like it's one of those things you can't just like sit down and something comes to you that is you just gotta chill over it and wait, see what sort of like percolates away, and um yeah, something will something will emerge eventually, but it can take it.

SPEAKER_03 47:12

Yeah, I think I think just kind of like because you're so like immersed in it and you're so focused on chasing that goal. Like I listened to a few podcasts about kind of well, I've seen a few things on Instagram about it. It was like it's not really a surprise when you get there, or you're not actually you don't feel satisfied or happy with what you've achieved because you've been manifesting it for so long, it's not a surprise to you. And that's kind of what it felt like is people are like, oh shit, like you're a world champion now, and I was like, Yeah, but like tomorrow I'm not. Yeah, the day I won, I'm a champion, but tomorrow I'm not. And and then somebody said to me at home, Oh, what are you gonna do now? Because it's only downhill from here.

SPEAKER_01 48:09

Yeah, yeah, that's right. You're like, you're like, shut up.

SPEAKER_03 48:14

Yeah, it's just uh yeah, the time comes and goes pretty fast, doesn't it?

SPEAKER_01 48:22

Yeah, yeah, definitely. Yeah, it's gotta savour it while it while it's there. Yeah, yeah. Yeah, that's cool. Um, I'll just do a couple of quick fire things because I like doing this with people. Um just run run through things. So, whereabouts do you live?

SPEAKER_03 48:38

Milan and Italy.

SPEAKER_01 48:39

Oh, yeah, sweet. Oh, fashion capital of the world. Yeah, shithole. That's the first time I've ever heard anyone call Milan a shithole, but that's okay.

SPEAKER_03 48:50

Shithole.

SPEAKER_01 48:50

Yeah. Uh what car are you driving?

SPEAKER_03 48:53

Uh Volswaken Crafter.

SPEAKER_01 48:56

Is that a is that like a um a van. A van, yeah, yeah, yeah. Yeah. Um favorite food?

SPEAKER_03 49:06

Oh probably some lamb chops.

SPEAKER_01 49:08

Oh, good shout. Good shout. Probably can't get too many of those over there either, I'd imagine. Nah, no. What's the um what's the pasta in pizza like? Is it pretty good over there?

SPEAKER_03 49:20

Yeah, it's good. Even it's better than at home for sure.

SPEAKER_01 49:23

Yeah, yeah. You'd hope so. Yeah. Uh favorite drink?

SPEAKER_03 49:29

Uh probably like a nice ice cold Coca-Cola, like when you're just craving one.

SPEAKER_01 49:35

Yeah. That's cool.

SPEAKER_03 49:36

Or some chockey milk at home.

SPEAKER_01 49:38

Yep. Yep. Yeah. Nice. Um, what are you listening to at the moment? Music wise.

SPEAKER_03 49:46

Uh bit of rock at the moment.

SPEAKER_01 49:49

Yep.

SPEAKER_03 49:50

Bit of nickelback.

SPEAKER_01 49:51

No.

SPEAKER_03 49:53

Yeah. Just a bit of everything.

SPEAKER_01 49:58

Uh I had kind of a bit of respect for you until you said nickelback. Nah, that's okay. Um what's the um last.

SPEAKER_03 50:06

I'll pull up my Spotify.

SPEAKER_01 50:08

Alright.

SPEAKER_03 50:09

What's in my like songs? Oh, we've got a bit of Mob Deep.

SPEAKER_01 50:13

Yep.

SPEAKER_03 50:15

Uh Shook Ones. We've got uh some Daryl Hall.

SPEAKER_02 50:20

Alright.

SPEAKER_03 50:21

Uh a bit of drum and bass. Some Rihanna.

SPEAKER_01 50:28

A bit of everything.

SPEAKER_03 50:28

Uh Nelly Fritardo.

SPEAKER_01 50:30

Wow.

SPEAKER_03 50:32

Bit of Eminem.

SPEAKER_01 50:34

Just mixing it up.

SPEAKER_03 50:36

Yeah, mixing it up.

SPEAKER_01 50:38

Sweet. Um, what was the last movie or TV series you watched?

SPEAKER_03 50:43

Fuck, I don't know.

SPEAKER_01 50:44

I don't watch that shit. Yeah. That's easy then, won't well, we won't worry about that one. Um what do you get up to when you're not riding? What do you what do you like to enjoy doing off the bike?

SPEAKER_03 50:58

Um over here it's pretty much just cycling, to be honest. I've been day trading a bit at the moment.

SPEAKER_02 51:05

Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 51:07

Day trading uh a bit of gold while the old uh the world doesn't know what it's doing at the moment, so that's kind of going alright at the moment.

SPEAKER_01 51:20

Putting in your put options.

SPEAKER_03 51:22

Yeah. Close the trade for 300 euros while we were on the phone, so that was good.

SPEAKER_01 51:27

Oh, sweet, nice.

SPEAKER_03 51:29

Yeah. But no, nothing else to play a bit of golf, but it's I'm not very good, so yeah. It can be a bit frustrating sometimes, get a bit boring if you're just playing like shit.

SPEAKER_01 51:41

Yeah. I always find golf's one of those games that the more I play, the worse I get.

SPEAKER_03 51:46

Yeah. Like when I first a bit of a spontaneous thing to go and have a hit with the boys or my brother when he's here.

SPEAKER_01 51:52

Yeah. Yeah. I was I was gonna ask about Angus actually. So uh does he where does he live now? Is he over there or is he over here?

SPEAKER_03 52:01

He's in New Zealand at the moment, but he does live over here during the ra the world championship race season.

SPEAKER_01 52:09

Yeah. Yeah. So is he racing as well?

SPEAKER_03 52:13

No, he was racing.

SPEAKER_01 52:15

Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 52:15

Um back in New Zealand, he was New Zealand champion. But he started business and just didn't really he didn't really have the motivation to keep at it.

SPEAKER_01 52:28

Okay. So what does he do over there then?

SPEAKER_03 52:32

He's a he's a filmy, so he's filming, doing photo shoots, um, yeah, basically filming. Um he works for Shirko, works for a few companies, making videos and Instagram reels, doing his YouTube, um, yeah, just a filmer.

SPEAKER_01 52:56

Yeah, yeah. Nice. That's cool. Um, final question: what should someone get you if they saw you at the bar?

SPEAKER_03 53:04

Produce a beer.

SPEAKER_01 53:06

Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 53:07

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 53:08

Anything in particular?

SPEAKER_03 53:13

States summoned ultra at home.

SPEAKER_01 53:16

Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 53:17

Nice.

SPEAKER_01 53:19

Nice clean, nice, clean beer. That one. Nice crispy one. Yeah. That's good stuff. Sweet, man. Um, well, it's he's just gone over. That's gonna be like an hour-long interview that I've got now gonna go through, so thanks. No, it's been good, it's been good chatting, man. Thanks, Heaps, for that. Yeah, awesome, really appreciate it. I've been recording it as well, so I've I can um you just use all that and do the translation on the transcription, so that's all sweet. Um, but if I've got any other questions, I might just flick you a message. Um there.

SPEAKER_03 53:53

Awesome, brilliant.

SPEAKER_01 53:54

Thanks, Heaps, man. Appreciate it.

SPEAKER_03 53:56

Simon, thank you very much.

SPEAKER_01 53:57

All right, have a good night.

SPEAKER_03 53:58

Have a good one.

SPEAKER_01 54:00

Cheers.

SPEAKER_03 54:00

Thank you.

SPEAKER_01 54:01

See you.