EP#49 - Kale Makeham on his multi-million dollar coaching empire, life after racing and more

ADB's Mitch Lees caught up with one-time Australian Supercross Champ Kale Makeham to talk about his rivalry with Lynchy, his life after racing and how he built his multi-million dollar online coaching business, the dark times he went through after he retired from professional racing and more.

Transcript

SPEAKER_03 0:00

Welcome to the ADB podcast where we talk all things dirt with your host, Mitch Lee. Okay guys, welcome to another podcast. We have a special guest on today, and uh it's someone that we that actually isn't racing anymore, but he's built quite a cool um business, lifestyle for himself um outside of an after racing. You've probably seen and heard him on social media. He's probably, I would argue, a bigger social media personality than uh some of the current racers are, or most of the current races are at the moment. Uh but hey, before we get into talking to our next guest, I am going to thank our sponsors. We've got Dunlop with the AT82 is sponsoring the show. It's a multi-directional tire, so you can flip it around and you can get um traction on both sides of the knobs. It's kind of got a hard pack and a soft pack um side of the knob, which is pretty cool. So yeah, you can uh you can you can use the tire on different terrain. Uh so thanks Dunlop for sponsoring the show and Sherko, Sherko Australia sponsor the show with their finance package. Uh Sherco has just launched an incredible low-rate finance offer on their latest 2026 factory two-stroke range. Uh they've got a 3.89% comparison rate over two years on a two-stroke Sherco and a 4.89% comparison rate over three years. Uh that's through Sherko Fast Finance. So go check them out at Sherco.com.au. But without further ado, I'm going to introduce Kale Makem. Kale has well, he's he's raced kind of all over Australia, Supercross and Motocross more over a decade ago now. Uh, but he has landed himself in the world of coaching and other bits that go with that. And so we want to talk to him today about um everything that's happened, more so about after his career. But Kale, mate, thanks for coming on the show.

SPEAKER_00 1:37

No worries, mate. My pleasure. Thanks for your uh time, and hopefully we can give the the listeners something something good to tune into.

SPEAKER_03 1:43

This is a bit unusual for you because you're on this the other side of the podcast. You had a uh quite a good podcast that we were just chatting about before that you're hoping to revive when you get a bit more time. But um, yeah, going back a few years now, you got the chance to interview a lot of the motocross leading motocross riders. Um, so yeah, it must be it'd be good fun to get into it from this side. Um, so mate, uh there's lots we want to talk about. I want to talk about how it all started for you. We we kind of know your background loosely based off because you've had a lot of stuff about your profile on your um on your app. Uh, but so we kind of know loosely about that. We want to delve more into that. We also want to delve more into life after racing uh because you've turned what is you know the coaching side of things, which is what a lot of X-racers do, into quite a successful business. Um and and I want to ask about some of the random stuff happening on social media that involve racing another blow. That's probably where we're gonna start. We'll just clear the air with that one. What are you talking about? Because it's a guy that, you know, we see so you know, I I want to get into later how you've built this social media empire after racing, but before and and part of that I feel is built by this Lynchy bloke that you've you've threatened to race on a 125 and you want to meet him. I've got to know, is it real or is it fake? What's the go with Lynch?

SPEAKER_00 2:52

Look, maybe we save that answer to the end of the podcast and everyone that's tuned in to the end. But um, no, it certainly started organic, so he genuinely thinks he can beat me. And to be honest, he's just a side piece to this. Yeah, it's all the people, his mates, that think he can beat me that I want to show them that he can't beat me. So uh no, it started very genuine, very organic. I've he come to a couple coaching schools like four or five years ago, uh during COVID. We hadn't spoken for a long, long time. I seen him call me out, and I'm down for a rivalry. Um, you know, a lot of the racers in Australia are sort of maybe too scared to say anything. He's clearly not, uh, whether you agree with what he says or not, but it's uh it's entertaining. So yeah, it's uh this Sunday we we go head to head and have a race. So we'll see how it turns out.

SPEAKER_03 3:38

I thought that we we obviously follow you on social media, and so we kind of get to keep up to date with what's happening. I mean, as a marketing uh as a marketing program, it's brilliant. You're doing better, you two are doing better at marketing your own brands or especially MWMX than any marketing company ever could. And it like you said, it started started organically, but it's turned into this thing that's actually quite interesting. I'm tuning in, I kind of want to know where they're up to. Is he genuine? Is he actually fast? It looks like he can ride too. He he's not like he's not a couch potato.

SPEAKER_00 4:07

He he can't he's he's probably like back of the top 10, top 15 in in like MX1 A grade in Victoria. Like he's not too bad, like it'll it'll be somewhat competitive, but throughout this sort of social media sparring contest, I have had to try and you know labor it a bit to make it look like it's a competition because I'll tell you what, on Sunday, I'm not holding back. He's either going over a berm or he's going 10 seconds down, one of the two. I don't care.

SPEAKER_03 4:28

Oh, I love it, mate. Well, it's working as a uh it's certainly working the rivalry to boost your profile and get more people, more eyeballs on your pages. Um, the wrist, it looks like you got your wrist still in a cast. I've I saw on some of your posts that there's a wrist injury. He's giving you crap about the wrist injury. Is it gonna be good to go this weekend?

SPEAKER_00 4:45

I I hope so, but like this is some of the stuff I get why people think it's scripted, but when we had that that little tussle at Chesneyvale, I broke this wrist two or three years ago uh at a Northern Region race in Denelquent. Last race I've ever done, coincidentally. And I was supposed to get surgery, I didn't, I was just busy working, went back to work, blah, blah, blah. And about once a year, I I land on the ground and hit it and it re-aggravates it. It's like the scaphalunate something, something ligament. And uh, I actually did it in that wrestle with Riley two weeks ago. Uh so I've had it in the just in whatever this thing is, the splint, uh, since then. But I think it'll be fine. I mean, I only need to be at about 30% performance to beat him. So I think whether it's one armed or not hitting the jumps, it'll be it'll be fine, mate.

SPEAKER_03 5:25

I love it. It does, it does. I love it. Um, all right. Well, we look forward to seeing that happen this weekend. Let's um, yeah, let's talk, let's talk about your racing career. We want to know where it all started, like I said, and then how it evolved into what it is today. But let's go right back to where it started. We know that your granddad was big into riding uh and also coaching, I believe. He kind of passed that on to your dad. Uh it was really important. Uh technique and other bits and pieces about riding a motorcycle were really important to them, not just going fast. And then obviously your dad impressed that on you growing up. Um, so so at what age did you start riding? I'm guessing it was pretty much as soon as you could walk. Uh, and then yeah, what was the process of like when did you start racing? Were you successful on a 50 and and then a 60? Probably back in those days. It wasn't a 65, a 60, and then an 80. Like, where did it start?

SPEAKER_00 6:14

Yeah, yeah. So I guess it goes right back to my grandfather. So he was born an orphan and he was just a madman. He was into planes, bikes, everything. Uh, eventually he ran a dealership back in like gosh, 1964, I think, in Kundruk, where I grew up, just a rural town in Victoria. Uh, my father used to build all the bikes there, and that was how he got into it, but he was never able to race. And then when I come along, it was like my dad enjoyed giving me the opportunity to race. So as a kid, yeah, just grew up in a country town, like I was a bit of a rap bag at school. So we spent probably 30 odd weekends at motorbike tracks, and I'd ride before school, I'd ride after school, I'd not go to school and ride. I just loved it. And um, just a typical Moto family mate, just the same as everyone today, making the sacrifices to be there and have fun and didn't have any major results. Like, you know, if I was to give an average position, I'd probably finished fifth at state titles through my junior career and maybe just inside the top ten at national. So I was always sort of around, but like I never won a national overall or race in my entire junior career. I competed in all of them from 1999 at Maffer in the Mud to um Paul. I mean, gosh, 2009, I think was my last junior Aussie. And I I think I finished sixth or seventh there. So no major results as a kid, just sort of loved it and did regionals, state titles, nationals, all those sorts of things. And and um yeah, that was about it as a kid. Nothing really to write home about. Yeah, it's just a normal sort of racer.

SPEAKER_03 7:35

Yeah, yeah. I mean, it's funny because like you know, racing, like you said, so much of it is in the family, and quite often we see people who have been successful in their racing career have a a parent or even a grandparent who's been into the sport that's been able to get them into it early. But occasionally, yeah, you see guys come through that didn't have that dad that was obsessed with it, or the granddad or the mum that was obsessed with it, and they've somehow found their way into it. Um, so so not a huge amount of success as a junior. Um, what then kind of uh convinced you to go after a pro career, having not because so many of these guys you hear about they they've won all their classes through the junior Aussies, um, you know, and then at the age of like 9, 10, 11, they've picked up with some sort of support from a Yamaha or a KDM or um, you know, back then it probably would have been all the brands when they all had two strokes. Um and then they kind of transition into this MXD class kind of development squad space between like the I'm thinking like the the kid nowadays that that's doing this and he's doing at the top of the game is Bahannon. You know, Blake's absolutely ripping, yeah. Um, you know, and so like that that's kind of the traditional way into the support, yeah. Yeah, 12 years onwards, kind of yeah.

SPEAKER_00 8:43

Did you have any of that? I honestly I didn't. So we never had like, you know, we never got a discount on bikes or products or sponsorships, anything like that. Um, and honestly, if I'm to, you know, say why did I have success later in my career, it was because I I didn't receive those things earlier on. Um, so I always had not a chip on my shoulder, but you know, I was always kind of the underdog mentality, and and that gave me the drive and motivation to sort of prove myself because I was never felt proven in my eyes. And then when I hit, as I mentioned, I was a rat bag at school. So I left around year eight. So I think I was like 14, 15, and mum and dad sort of made a deal like you can leave school on Tuesday, but you're starting work on Wednesday. So I got my AB ABN, my Australian business number when I was 15. And from that point on, it was like, well, if you want to race too, like it's it's on you, sort of thing. So then I had even more of a chip on my shoulder because I'm like, I've never got sponsorship. I've always just been on the back of the top three. Now my parents are stepping back as well, it was kind of me versus the world, and and that just it lit a fire underneath me. And uh around that time I was heavily involved with like the Moss Institute, and I was around Matt Moss a bit too, and and I kind of got to see his lifestyle and what he was doing, and then I was over here entering the workspace and that lifestyle, and it all kind of just come together. And from age yeah, 17, 18, 19, just a tremendous amount of work, took it really, really serious and did everything I could, and and it all sort of just flicked overnight. And I went from a you know sixth place nationally writer to a yeah championship winner and and podiums sort of every weekend. Um, but if I was to say how that happened, it was for sure because I I just had the this massive fire under my ass from sort of always being just a little bit shy of of the podium. So I was by no means burnt out. Whereas exactly as you mentioned, a lot of racers will get the pressure and the support early and uh have the weight on the shoulders, and and once they get to 17, 18, the the girls look pretty good, and you know, the the money's looking even better, and you know that they trend off in a different direction. And whereas I was the complete opposite, I just had the you know all the motivation in the world to to prove myself, and um yeah, fortunately it worked out.

SPEAKER_03 10:44

So yeah, it's funny you've you you click your fingers, you say then all of a sudden it just clicked, and we're gonna get into it in a second, and you're winning titles, you wanna uh you were under 19 supercross champ uh for crying out loud. It's it's kind of funny to think that like you know, even like someone like myself, I haven't even won a clubman class, let alone a pro class or anything. And it and for it to go from did did you feel like you had a lot of natural ability and it was just a work ethic thing, or how do you go from being average in that top 10 space to winning?

SPEAKER_00 11:14

It's a good question. For me, it was always mental, definitely mental. I always always had the ability, I've always had the work ethic. Uh, I just didn't believe in myself as a kid. And there's a quote by Alex Halmosy, I can't remember it. I don't I'd never heard it, and it probably wasn't even around back then, but it was work so hard that it's unrealistic, you don't succeed. And I basically did that for the from age like 16 to 18. Um, maybe went a little bit crazy, got obsessed with it, and just that mountain of work during the week sort of started to make me believe that I could do it on the weekends. And that was really, I would say what flicked the switch for me was just purely mental. I probably had the ability and the work ethic all along uh to be up the pointy end, but I just you know, I was one of the classic races that would kill it during the week, and you get to the race on the weekend, and you know, you're two seconds off the pace of what you would expect, and you know, just purely a mental game. So I'd say a couple years of of just head to the grindstone and and sort of knowing that it was do or die kind of thing. Like I was working, I knew what that life looked like, and I, you know, I wasn't particularly attracted to that. I seen the racing lifestyle with Matt Moss, and I was very attracted to that. And it was like, yeah, I was I was willing to do anything, and that was basically what I did for a couple years, and I slowly started to stack those blocks of of 1% better and believing in myself. And I finally qualified first at a race, and then I finally let a lap, and then I finally won a race, and then I got overall and it just snowballed and and um yeah, purely mental, I would say for me 100%.

SPEAKER_03 12:38

Um, what were you doing when you said you went left school and went straight into work? What was your first job?

SPEAKER_00 12:43

Uh so my parents were uh red gum firewood producers, so I was out uh splitting firewood and driving machines. Yeah, so hard yakka, mate. Yeah, I was gonna say paid by a ton of firewood, you can't yeah, chainsaws and and um and driving old machines. So I loved it, like it's cool. Like I love the red gum industry. I'm I'm qualified in it and things like that. And that's what my grandfather did. Like that's how he built his fortune. Um but yeah, you know, it's nothing beats racing about certainly not cutting wood, yeah.

SPEAKER_03 13:12

Totally different lifestyle. Yeah, um, okay. So when did you you kind of had more success in Supercross? Obviously, sorry, that was your early success with Supercross. Um did you have how'd you know you would be better at Supercross than Motocross? Did you feel like Supercross clicked more for you? Did you like jumping? Did you have a good ability to put rhythms together?

SPEAKER_00 13:32

Uh it's a good question. I I wouldn't really say I I favoured one or the other. Like once I got that supercross championship, my motocross results picked up as well. Um for me, it was always my parents were hard asses, right? There's you're not allowed inside the house while it's daylight, you've got to be outside. Like if you're racing on a Sunday in Maury in New South Wales, you drive back to Victoria overnight and you're working on Monday. Like that's just how it was. And I always felt sort of held back from being at my my best as an athlete because I was so busy working and doing all the other obligations that they rightfully put on me. And all that really happened was in Supercross. I still remember it to this day. It was like the biggest decision of my life. I had tears in my eyes. I went up to my dad and I said, I I don't want to work for three months. Like, I want to have some time off. Like, I want to focus on this Supercross championship. And it was cool, but it wasn't that big of a deal. He said, Yeah, no worries, go over it. Like, if that's what you want to do. And I spent the next two months just training full-time. Uh Errol Willis came to the house, and um, yeah, that was like the first time I'd sort of gone all in. Whereas when the competition, you know, that's sort of what they'd been doing since they were 12 years old, 13 years old. It was just life was bikes, whereas mine was life was about life after bikes. My parents more so prepared me for that. Um, and so yeah, that that's what I would really say made the difference in Supercross was just I trained full time and won that, and then because I won that, then I was able to train full-time for motocross, and the results there were similar after that, and and off it went.

SPEAKER_03 14:55

So 2012 was that under 19 Supercross title. Um, do you remember where you placed the year before that?

SPEAKER_00 15:03

I don't think I raced it the year before. You didn't race. There you go.

SPEAKER_03 15:05

Okay, so relative unknown, like hadn't raced the whole. Did you had you raced any of the previous year?

SPEAKER_00 15:11

Yeah, so I I raced it like I was a happy crowd. Like I was nah, not oh, I think I did one round and then I I blew my shoulder out. I I separated my AC joint up in um Campbell Town Supercross from memory. Okay. But yeah, I didn't, yeah, I guess I'd raced one or two supercrosses before that. Um and yeah, I just oh yeah. So who'd you beat?

SPEAKER_03 15:35

Yeah, wow. Who'd you beat in 2012? Who was the who what other names will we know now? Because they are probably done with racing, although might have only finished recently. Who were you racing in that under 910s title in 2012?

SPEAKER_00 15:47

So my main competitor was Hayden Melros. Oh, yeah. We finished one at one point apart in first and second. I think third place was Dylan Long from memory. Fourth was Jay Wilson. Um gosh, and I can't really remember after that, but they were the top four. Um so yeah, still a few guys that are that are getting around, like we're all sort of still the same age. And um, yeah.

SPEAKER_03 16:10

Do you ever do you ever look at those guys? Do you ever look at you know, Jay obviously killing it over in Japan? Do you ever and um you know Hayden with what he's done, especially last year in Supercross, is damn impressive as a privateer. Um, and think, oh I mean, you've had so much success after racing, so it's hard to look back and go, what if I had of, but do you ever look at that and think, oh I wonder what would happen if I had kept going?

SPEAKER_00 16:35

When I first you know retired, quit whatever you want to call it, I did for sure. Um yeah, like I guess we'll get into that, but I certainly had some dark days after that. Like I was very bitter, had a chip on my shoulder, sort of a lot of what ifs, and and um yeah, it did eat away at me during the you know, the first four years after I retired because you know Jay's gone on winning titles and Longy or Melrose or whoever it was, um you know, kept killing it, and I sort of, for whatever reasons, we'll get into stepped away from it. But sitting here today, not at all, not at all, mate. It's it's um yeah, I guess we'll get into it, but I sort of went through, I guess you'd call it the toughest time, you know, as a period of life, and and I honestly think where I'm at now, like I actually enjoy what I'm doing now more than racing. So I don't I don't feel any regrets or or bitterness or you know, I'm not bummed that I'm not out there or anything like that. You know, I love what I'm doing to death and I wouldn't change it for the world. So all worked out. Although it took me a few years of a grumpy, miserable prick, I'd say, for for not being out there to uh to get to this point for sure.

SPEAKER_03 17:34

I can I can imagine in those that period after racing professionally like that, it would be hard to see the light at the end of the tunnel, but there was some light there for you. But we'll get into that later on. Um 2012 under 19 Supercross champ, you're essentially a privateer. Could we call you a privateer in that for that title? Yeah, 100%, mate.

SPEAKER_00 17:51

I was on a secondhand bike. I uh the first national uh overall I won in Supercross, I was actually there by myself, like 100% by myself. Uh flew up, had a gear bag of bike and a fuel jump. My sister was in the crowd with a partner that knew nothing about bikes, and I took myself to the start line race, won that. Uh the night I won my championship. I just showed up in a Ute with the bike in the back of the Ute, secondhand bike. Uh, my dad and and uh the local shop owner flew in for the main event at the end. But yeah, like I couldn't have done it. There's so many stories I could tell you. Like, I traveled to the to round one, my Ute broke down. That the bloody uh toe ball snapped on the Ute, and I was towing a trailer, and this was the night before the race, and I just just stranded in the middle of nowhere. And uh a fella named Ben Griffith, who's actually mechanic for Joshua Moto now.

SPEAKER_02 18:37

Oh wow.

SPEAKER_00 18:38

Um yeah, he just randomly messaged me on Facebook a week earlier and just said, Hey, hey mate, you know, been seeing what you're doing, you know, would you want me to come mechanic for you? And I was like, Hell yeah, because I'm going by myself, that'd be great. And um, just by chance, I got that message. Like, we met on the way, and I loaded all my stuff from my Uton trailer into his old van, old red van, and we went to Dubbo and raced to got second. And just yeah, like honestly, I've told some stories how like if I was had 500 bucks less or you know, one less person in my corner, I just wouldn't race. Like it was so shoestring budget and um yeah, secondhand bikes, there's no parts on them. I was in Matt Moss's old gear. Like no way. Yeah, there's a photo in the start of 2012 where I'm at Conondale. I'm in Matt Moss's secondhand gear. I mean, his helmet, he gifted me a set of boots, and the bike I was racing had like 20 hours on it. I'd travel there myself uh to do the race. I'm from Victoria. I think I got like fifth or six that weekend, and and um he had like tape numbers on the back of the of the armor, like as hardcore privateer as you could get. So um, yeah, you could certainly call me a privateer, that's for sure.

SPEAKER_03 19:45

That's pretty cool. Not the not these flash privateers I say these days still flying to the races, and you know, how much so much has changed in like 14 years, whereby you know, privateers now, there's maybe more money in the sport wherever they're turning up with dad's ram and a uh you know, toy hauler, and like there's just there seems like there's more support now, which makes your journey so much more impressive. Even like I think Dean Ferris, when he first started coming into the pro ranks, was on his own Honda. Um, I remember going to Raymond Terrace in like 2009 or something and seeing him just turn up in a car with his bike and he went out and won. Yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_00 20:22

Um, yeah, yeah, like and I don't want this to come across as like I'm I'm crying poor or anything like that. Like, I wouldn't change it for the world, it was the best thing ever. Um, and I almost feel sorry for the kids that show up in the in the big base station with the Bram and bikes. They're like, oh, you'll just you know, you'll never be the underdog thing. And it's it's just it's it's an awesome feeling. So I wouldn't change it for the world.

SPEAKER_03 20:43

It's funny, it's not actually that long ago, it just has happened so quickly these last like 10 years. That of evolution of like, yeah, you got your factory trucks and then a drop right back to guys like yourself coming up as privateers. There's now this like in-between level of family money that's you know helping support riders, which it's probably a good and a bad thing.

SPEAKER_00 21:01

Yeah, I'm good on them, yeah. Like yeah, I I'd never I'd never wish less for anyone, and less um no, I would never wish less for anyone, yeah. So it's it's cool to see them doing it the way they're doing it now.

SPEAKER_03 21:11

So um, okay, so like you said, we probably do a whole podcast on just that 2012 season and what what it was like getting from race to race on a secondhand bike. Were you ever nervous racing a secondhand two-stroke uh that's had some hours on it and you're on a super cross track, which you we all know the dangers of supercross, that something might nip up, you know, on the up face of a triple or anything? Most black people have practice bikes, race bikes, all this kind of stuff. You had one.

SPEAKER_00 21:37

In hindsight, maybe, but but you know, I was so blessed. Like, um I'm obviously I didn't have the money or whatever, whatever, but the people I had, and and namely Stephen Jones, who was running AJ's motorcycles at the time, was just an absolute diamond in the rough, like an absolute weapon. And without him, like nothing I just said would have happened. Um, so he was only he owned a shop, but he was also a suspension tuner. And I basically I brought that thing. Hand bike from that shop. That was how we got to know each other. I think it was just at the start of that year. And he started doing the suspension and then he started working on the motors. And it just organically grew to where you know you would call him not just a mechanic, but a mentor and a best mate. And um, that was uh probably like the the secret weapon that I had, you know. We did hours and hours of testing, and and you know, I had zero doubts about my bike. Like I was I was so confident in that, purely thanks to Steve. So without Steve, 100%. If it was me working on the thing, might not be sitting here today. But um, yeah, no, that was that was one thing that I was I was super lucky to find Steve 100%.

SPEAKER_03 22:37

When you when you started that 2012 season and you started getting some success in 2012, um anyway, at any point throughout the season, did anyone tap you on the shoulder, being a manufacturer or a parts distributor or any other business tap you on the shoulder and start to give you significant support or offer you a ride on their team or anything like that?

SPEAKER_00 22:59

Uh no rides on teams, but Mick Sinclair. So he was running Fox and Oakley at the time. And after that first round, where I was wearing Matt Moss's old secondhand gear and only finished six or whatever, Mick hit me up uh like I think the next day or definitely that week and got me in some new Fox gear and Oakley goggles for the Cuna Barabrand round, which was round two. And uh that was the first time I ever finished first ever on a result sheet in a in a national event. So I qualified first.

SPEAKER_01 23:24

Wow.

SPEAKER_00 23:25

And that was to me like that was another one of these moments where I say the confidence started to to come in and that that mental hurdle was getting solved. And yeah, I've got all the all the respect and and and gratitude to Mick in the world because I was, yeah, just again, like you know, there was nothing really there at the time. And I felt like such a rock star when he hit me up. I got three new sets of gear, and it was so cool. And that's um that like spurred on my my confidence to to go on the run that I did. So uh, but outside of that, no, I never I never got until I this is kind of sad in a way, but when I won my supercross championship, I got zero dollars. I had no bonuses, there was no prize money, nothing. Uh I had no manufacturer contingencies, anything, which you know, if that's happening in MX3 today, it just wouldn't happen. Um and KDM actually got in touch. So Jeff Fleeske about a week later, and they sent me a five grand bonus. They didn't have to do that, it wasn't an agreement, it wasn't a deal. And um, that was the first real time, you know, I got manufacturer support or even really spoke to anyone. Um, and that was yeah, like credit to them for doing that. They didn't have to. Yeah. Uh because I remember feeling a bit down after I went. I'm like, well, that's cool. I'm looking around, I'm like, fuck, I'm no different.

SPEAKER_03 24:30

I'm poorer and I gotta go back to work.

SPEAKER_00 24:33

Pretty much, mate, pretty much. So yeah, when I got that call from Jeff, and then um Steve, who I mentioned before, was working behind the scenes as well to to help out with that sort of stuff, and then we got a uh contract for the next year and and off we went. So yeah, that's cool.

SPEAKER_03 24:46

Um that's cool. Let's well, I want to talk about that contract because um even like you know, Liskey, what a legend! Like, for did he understand racing or what? What he did with uh Katie and that brand through that whole period pretty much that you're talking about, you know, especially in off-road and at Fink and other bits and pieces. Um, yeah, he was such an advocate for racing, which is was so cool. Um okay, so Supercross season ends. You've you've you're still you're still a privateer, you're still kind of doing everything off your own bat. Um, how long they got there there was that bonus from KDM that didn't have to come through. How long until you you got 12 months or 11 months till Supercross starts again? Did someone tap you on the shoulder then and say, Can you come and do pra what was it, MX Nats, um for us the following year in 2013? We know you raced on the KDM team in the MX2 class, I think, in 2013. Um was it yeah, 13? Um uh 14? Was it you kept going? It was MXD class in 13 or or um MX2 for for MX Nats in 2013.

SPEAKER_00 25:48

Yeah, so I won the under 919 championship in in 2012. Then I got that five grand bonus like a week later, and then maybe a couple weeks after that, uh KDM offered myself and Steve basically um a deal. So it was uh I think it was a 10 grand sign-on. Okay, it was like a couple bikes on you know, like a bike plan, and I think we had a part budget. Okay, and uh that was and then bonuses, which is what I was most excited about. And that was what we um that was basically what I took into 2013. So still doing it all in-house, like as a privateer, just I had manufacturer support. Uh Steve was handling all my bikes and all my suspension and all that sort of stuff. We got support from KDM to to um get the product and sort of raised 2013. Like I wouldn't say I was you know on a factory team, not by any means, like we're just showing up in a van still. Um, but you know, had the support and and I guess the opportunity to make the money behind it. And then 2014, it was the same setup, just everything basically tripled um as as far as support went. So still going there in a van, still on a two-stroke, um, still organizing and doing everything ourselves, as in I and Steve. Um, but yeah, I never actually got onto a team until Suzuki in 2015. Okay. Um jumped on a 450, yeah. Yeah, as in like a you know, a traditional team.

SPEAKER_03 27:00

Yeah. So and so why do you think the uh opportunity never came to ride a KDM in the MX2 class on that official KDM team? Was it a do you like two strokes over four strokes? Was it more a case of a two versus four-stroke thing?

SPEAKER_00 27:15

Um maybe, yeah. I know I liked them for sure. Uh I don't know what what KDM's motivations behind it were, but I knew in a perfect world, if I could get paid to race a two-stroke, um, that was certainly what I wanted to do. And I guess that was the opportunity that came. I I don't recall ever getting an offer to go onto a team. I did talk to some other teams like Circo and stuff like that. Um after that, maybe after, not even after the championship, I think. After 2013, I did. Um, but yeah, I was kind of living like the dream setup in my eyes. Like I was getting my bikes paid for, I love the bike I was on. You know, my local dealership, which was Steve, and 40 minutes away, was handling everything. And I didn't really see a need to change what we were doing. I kind of I've always just enjoyed the underdog sort of mentality and mindset. So for me to go to a big factory team, like it's not really I don't know, it's not really something that that kind of floats my boat, I guess. I'm I'm happy to to do things in-house and um yeah, I love what we did. It was it was awesome.

SPEAKER_03 28:12

So okay. So had you ridden a 450 before? So he's two years on a uh on the KDM 252 stroke with some support from KDM, like you said, it tripled the following year. Um results-wise, were they good for those two or three years? Do you feel like you achieved what you really could have achieved?

SPEAKER_00 28:29

Um 2013 I overachieved. So I think I podiumed eight of the 10 rounds and finished second overall behind Luke Stike that year. That was awesome. Yep. Uh round one is supercross, qualified first, got fourth, and then I blew my shoulder out in the second round on the start of a heat race. So maybe if I was to look back and wish, you know, what injury didn't happen, that would be the one. Um, and then coming into 2013, I'd say I underperformed for sure. Um, you know, just a bit of a if I was to look back on it now and and say, why do I not do as well? And I still did all right in in 2014, like I had maybe three or four podiums, but uh, you know, wasn't a championship contender like I thought I would be. Um when I had that injury at the end of 2013, I sort of seen that as a time to have a break and have a reset. And I didn't maintain training throughout that. Whereas before that, I'd stacked years on years on years of consistent work. And um, if I'm to say what what held me back in 2014, it was that I should have kept training and kept going regardless of the injury. Um, but I didn't do too bad. Supercross, same thing again. I think I was like two or three podiums in the supercross season, maybe fourth overall I didn't after the last round, and I was sort of there, but I wasn't, you know, I wasn't winning championships like I sort of you know was expected to and expected myself to.

SPEAKER_03 29:41

So what was the injury? What was the injury? What ended up happening?

SPEAKER_00 29:45

Uh I blew I've had four shoulder AC separations, so it was a bit of a hereditary thing. I was born with like raised, I think they're called clavicles now. I can't even remember. Um, but yeah, I blew that sucker out every every other week. So um, yeah, yep. So just shoulder ligament issues was was always sort of plagued me. Every time you'd have four months off for us, and um, yeah, that was a real real prick, but that's how it goes.

SPEAKER_03 30:10

Was there a was there a transition from the 252 stroke onto a 254 stroke before you hopped on an RMZ 450?

SPEAKER_00 30:18

No, I never wrote a no never rode a 254 stroke until after the four uh four stroke, sorry, until after the 450. So I went from 252 stroke to 454 stroke, and then after that I went back to a 254 stroke for a year.

SPEAKER_03 30:30

Okay. Um so talk us through then the how the deal came about with Suzuki um and what was that like jumping off a 252 stroke and jumping straight onto a big bike in the in the big boy class.

SPEAKER_00 30:41

Yeah, yep. So yeah, so I got the opportunity. Obviously, I was quite tight with Matt Moss at the time, and um that was like my dream, it sort of made sense. So I hit up Jay Foreman. It was the last year that they ran the the factory Suzuki team, so probably not ideal timing on my behalf. Um, but yeah, it was it was like it was a no-money deal. I just got everything paid for and showed up in a truck basically uh with bonuses, and it was good. Yeah, I loved it. Like I I feel like I did pretty well for sort of where I was expected to be. I think I was maybe fifth in the championship when I had a crash at round four and and knock myself out, and then it sort of you know, I lost my way a little bit from there. And then coming into Supercross prepared really, really well and kind of a shit story, but my uh my race bike didn't have oil in it on press day at wherever it was, can't remember now, Bathurst or Dubbo or something. And uh yeah, so it's well it didn't quite seize. They picked up on it just beforehand, but I had to race Matt's spare race bike. So I was going from a stock 450 to a fire breathing RMZ on a on my first 450 supercross race, and I overjumped a triple and uh I uh tore my Achilles. So um, yeah, that was a bit of a prep. So I sat out the next three rounds. I raced the Oz X. Um, I think it was the last round. I might have finished fifth or sixth there, which was cool. And um, yeah, that was it for my 450 career.

SPEAKER_03 32:03

So what was that like jumping onto a 450 off a two-stroke? Did it take you a while to get used to riding the bigger bike?

SPEAKER_00 32:10

Um, no, I'd say I was quite competitive. Like I probably overperformed for where you would have expected my results to be. So I didn't wouldn't really say I had a drama with that. I was basically on a stock 450, like it wasn't, you know, we put a lot of time in with the suspension and things, but it I don't even think we tested engines, it was just you know, just give us a stock 450 sort of thing. So it wasn't any dramas there. Um, you know, I I I think I qualified, you know, I was sort of in the top three to five on qualifying most of the time, and you know, my average result was probably fifth to sixth. Uh, I was only I stepped up pretty early, like I think I was 20 at that age. Um, and yeah, I just I had a terrible concussion at Murray Bridge round four, so lost about a week, and that set me back. And you know, I was quite never quite uh on that level from that point on.

SPEAKER_03 32:54

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 32:55

Um yeah.

SPEAKER_03 32:56

We um so this is 2017.

SPEAKER_00 33:00

Uh 15.

SPEAKER_03 33:01

15. I think it was 15. Yeah, what would have been when I was I was still on the Mag down in Victoria and I sent Hoags up to Newcastle, I think it was maybe, or maybe it was Wollongong, to ride Mossy's factory Suzuki bike. And um yeah, I remember him calling me as soon as he got off, and he's like, I don't know how he rides that thing. The throttle cams like three millimeters, so it's either on or it's off. And he's like, it's so powerful and and firm. He's like, it's friggin' hard, it's friggin' fast, and it's aggressive.

SPEAKER_00 33:30

Okay, yeah, I'm gonna perfect. I was gonna say the most aggressive 450 you you would ever swing a leg over it. It wasn't unless you're like, I guess going his speed, you didn't enjoy it at all. Yeah, uh, with his intensity as well.

SPEAKER_03 33:42

So yeah, I can imagine then hopping on his bike to do a um to do uh having never raced it to do a super cross would have been on motocross would have been pretty gnarly.

SPEAKER_00 33:50

Or super gross you said it was when super gross when they super gross, yeah, because we we shared the same spare race bike that you know we had a race bike each and then there was just one spare race bike. Um and it was yeah, it was set up in Matt Moss mode, which which was not rookie 450 rider supercross mode, but that's how it goes.

SPEAKER_03 34:06

I feel like that Jay Foreman run Suzuki team back then was um like peak Suzuki. That was that team that Flossy was on. Man, it was so cool. Even just like the collaborations they did with the gear sponsors and bits and pieces. I feel like it was it was an and for for a punter like watching, it was like the team that looked the best, it was really professional. Um did you feel so that was obviously the last year for Suzuki 15 or 16 in that official factory outfit?

SPEAKER_00 34:36

It was, yeah, that was the final one.

SPEAKER_03 34:38

Yeah, did you see in that last year any of the writing on the wall for Suzuki? Were there signs that like oh this is gonna be Suzuki's last official factory team?

SPEAKER_00 34:47

Pretty well, yeah. So that was the year Matt Moss hit the bobcat. That's it, yeah. Cool him, yeah. So he was sort of out most of the year, and then I think he maybe did the first round of Supercross and then hurt himself maybe again. I can't remember. So, and then yeah, obviously everybody knew that it was the last year. Uh the funding was as as low as it had ever been. Yeah, um, and yeah, so it was sort of yeah, it was it was kind of a bon voyage type year, I guess. Yeah, um, but it's just so iconic and awesome to arrive for that team. Like when you step in the truck, there's Chad Reed's old championships on the truck there. Jay obviously worked with Chad quite a bit, and um, you know, you had the Rockstar sponsorship, and you go in the factory, and there's all like the factory dunlops and the old two-stroke pipes, and and it was like a proper factory setup and feel, and and just all the history in there. It was yeah, I loved it. I loved every minute of it. It obviously didn't work out as you know, like I hoped, but that's that's the nature of the beast, and um it was awesome. Like, yeah, I loved it.

SPEAKER_03 35:43

Yeah, so yeah, that was cool. We Jay would often come along and do a lot of our magazine testing and shoot out some bits and pieces as like the Suzuki mechanic, and um, he's always good for a story and he's always got something to talk about, and it's usually about that, you know, the race team and people he's worked with, Chad, etc. So that was uh end of an era. And look, that bike hasn't changed much since you probably last wrote it either. So but it hey, it still works. It honestly hasn't.

SPEAKER_00 36:06

I think it's still exactly the same. That was 2012. Uh sorry, 2015.

SPEAKER_03 36:10

Yeah, look at Kenny though, it's working. Geez.

SPEAKER_00 36:13

Oh, it's just it's so awesome to watch what Kenny does on it. Like, that's yeah, I I love it. Yeah, cool, huh?

SPEAKER_03 36:18

Yeah, um, okay, so tell us what happened after Suzuki year. Um, you had another that's 15. I think you kind of started pulling away from racing professionally full-time around 2017-ish. Um the following year or so, what did racing look like?

SPEAKER_00 36:32

Yeah, so I sort of after that little Achilles incident, um, yeah, I I sort of started to lose my passion for it, I would say, you know, working super hard and just getting kicked in the dick, uh, to put it unpolitely. Um, and so I sort of started to to start looking the other direction out of the sport at that point. Um, so yeah, started to I don't know, get myself in a little bit of trouble and be doing things I shouldn't do. And definitely I raced the next year, which was good. Like I was, I mean, I was gonna go really good. I um probably shouldn't say I I started going down that that path that early, but um the next year I raced with WBR motorcycles on a YZ 250F. Round two, I I finished second overall, so I won a race and finished second overall, uh, which was cool because everyone thought I was just a two-stroke rider, blah blah blah. But you know, there I was. I nearly won the overall, missed out by a point, won a race. That was cool. And then uh the next week I was out testing with Trav, the owner of WBR motorcycles, and uh blew my shoulder out again. So that was um yeah, that was the under that season.

SPEAKER_03 37:38

Is that um is that when you felt like maybe being a full-time factory guy long term, this is going to be really hard with this shoulder failing pretty regularly?

SPEAKER_00 37:49

I wouldn't put it down to the shoulder, just you know, as I mentioned earlier in the piece, that you you know, my parents support me 100%, but not financially in a way that like you know, if I'm if what I'm doing is not working, they'll you know pick up the bills. So it was kind of tough. Like, if I wasn't on the podium, basically I was, you know, you're making zero, and that's just the way the sport is here. And and that was more the writing on the wall for me was if every time you put in all this work and effort, you feel like you're gonna go well, maybe you get a podium, then you get injured, and your income is zero for the next six months, nine months. And and that was what wore on me for sure. I wouldn't say I lost my passion to ride or to race or the injuries got to me or anything like that. It was more just the result of when things go wrong, no money. And then, you know, for me, I yeah, I wasn't staying at parents or you know, I was sort of living in my van at the time, traveling around like I didn't have, you know, if you don't have money for fuel, you don't have money for fuel kind of thing. You can't I couldn't really lean on anyone. So it just got to the point where it was it was so difficult financially that uh and I was kind of like I knew that if you work hard in the nine to five space, you get rewarded. You know, you get paid every Friday or whatever it is. And and I was kind of like fucking working five times as hard as you know, just say the average you know laborer would be in a construction job making zero. I wonder if I applied these efforts to work, you know, would it work out better for me? And that frustration basically just built up over time, and that was what you know made me depart. Um yeah. So I guess the injuries.

SPEAKER_03 39:14

Yeah, and what age were you when you'd made that call?

SPEAKER_00 39:17

Ooh, 23, 24.

SPEAKER_03 39:20

Okay, that's incredible. That's so early, you know, in in a I mean look, not so early. Our career, our racing careers in our sport, they don't last all that long. Um, but 23, 24 is still early. That's also typically like a peak kind of period, I guess, too, for a racer. You're physically you're there. Um, you probably haven't had too many injuries, although you had by this that stage. Um yeah, that's a that's a tricky one. How how how was it balancing that? Like when you you talked about how hard it was working and riding at the same time. There's a lot of riders today that do it as well, and they find it tricky without significant support from somewhere else. Um, you were concreting, I believe, at the when when you weren't or kind of working in civil when you weren't racing during that period.

SPEAKER_00 40:05

Uh so I was I was uh I was delivering firewood, so I brought an old Isuzu truck and I just cut it by hand out of the bush, chuck it in an old truck, and I'd drive it down to Melbourne, I'd make 600 bucks a load. Uh so I was sort of doing that intermittently between racing, yeah. And it's to work and race, it it's all relative to your expectations. You know, for me, I'd obviously won in the past and have podiums in the past. So anything less than that was was always a failure.

SPEAKER_01 40:28

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 40:28

And it's just basic time. Like if your competitors uh uh got 24 hours a day, seven days a week to train, and you've got you know, four hours a day, five days a week to train, to think you're gonna beat them is it's almost arrogant in a way. Like you're saying, yeah, I'm gonna bet you with 15% of the effort or 20% of the effect, like it's just not realistic. But if your expectations aren't to win, then cool, yeah. Like it's it's you know, you can work and race and and try and get top tens. That that's totally achievable. For me, it was like I didn't really see the point if you know to to be busting your ass and getting 10th when I've won in the past, podium in the past. It just seemed like it was uh, you know, either I'm all in doing it properly and I'm giving myself a chance to win, or I'm out. Like it just it wasn't wasn't quite worth it for me. So um, but that was yeah, again, relative to my expectations, which were were quite high.

SPEAKER_03 41:17

Yeah. Um it's probably the hardest part of our sport is that you know, you there is the opportunity to go and earn some good money somewhere else, and when you're not earning any money, and you potentially, if like you said, especially probably back then, you couldn't come through the ranks and get all this cushy support from the age of 13 or 14. Um yeah, you gotta sacrifice getting on top of life early. There's a lot of you know, you said you were 23, 24 when you th you were thinking this is it, I'm done. There's a lot of 23, 24-year-olds by that stage that had been working in a job for the last six or seven years and they're building a house deposit and all that kind of stuff, and you kind of have to put that on hold. So um what when when you knew that my racing career now is done, I'm gonna finish racing and go into full-time work. What were you looking at at going into for full for work?

SPEAKER_00 42:06

Well, I had no idea. I was just a lost puppy there for a bit. I um uh I don't say this slightly, but I'll I was dumb as a potato. Like it's not I had no idea what I wanted to do. My parents had got divorced when I was maybe 19. Uh, so they were sort of dealing with their own things, and you know, I was maybe had a bit of a falling out with them and and sort of yeah, we was was trying to just make my way in the world and and didn't really know where I wanted to go, what I wanted to do. Um, and yeah, there was certainly some dark and and tough times during that. I defaulted back to what I knew, which was was cutting wood. Uh I brought an old, old, it was a 1984 Isuzu tipper, and I just cut three ton of firewood out of the bush, chuck it in the back of it, drive it to Melbourne. I get 600 bucks. And eventually I saved up a deposit. I think back then you need only needed like 20, 30 grand of cash.

SPEAKER_01 42:56

Yeah, and um I was so new to it.

SPEAKER_00 43:00

I uh I went to Simmons, the home builders, and said, I want to buy a house. How do I do it? And they said, Well, you need to get a loan. I'm like, okay, cool. How do I get that? We're like, Well, we need to say pay slips. I'm like, I don't have those. Like, I've got cash. And they're like, Are you self-employed? I go, I guess. Like, I really know what that means. Um they said, well, if you can show us the pay slips, you know, we could have a discussion. And I went down the uh the news agents and got one of those old paper books and wrote out my own pay slip with just the just fake numbers on it. I made up the tax rate, the holiday rate, just ridiculous. Sent them in, and they obviously laughed me out of the building. And um I went on a I went on a tough few years of learning what the real world entails and and what you gotta do. I've still got a picture of those paceslips. It's I look at them every now and again and laugh because I was just so so silly and and just not intelligent. Um but yeah, I just started out cutting wood and and then from that I figured out well, fuck, I need these paceslips. How do you get them? Oh, I gotta get employed, full time employed. So then I went into the civil construction in Industry, I got a job uh doing channel remediation with a company here and took off on that journey and and um did 12 months with them, got the pay slips, and yeah, it's a whole thing from there. There's there's many a story throughout that time. I can I can tell you that for free.

SPEAKER_03 44:14

So um okay, so so into the working life, but coaching at this stage, you know, wasn't even a thing. You're in your mid-20s, 24-ish, probably by this stage, maybe turning 25. You're um you're cutting wood for a bit and now you're working in civil. Um where did the idea to start coaching come from?

SPEAKER_00 44:33

Yeah, well, I still love bikes. Like I was doing it just a little bit here and there, just just with just with um, you know, local riders that I knew, but not as a business as such. It was just sort of a side thing. I I'd cut wood during the week and then coach some young riders on the weekends. Um, but yeah, I went from the wood to the civil, uh, then into the concreting, and then I just basically I just never let go of bikes through coaching. So every weekend, any chance I got, I would coach. Um and I didn't sort of start it as a business until gosh, well, it was COVID, actually, is what made uh a bit after COVID because you you you couldn't do much, but you could run. Um, you know, I could coach for some reason. I can't remember why, I can't remember all the restrictions, but you were able to do that. You could have gatherings of like 20 people or whatever to do a coaching thing. And because footy was cancelled, it just went gangbusters for me. Um, everybody like just crazy, man. Yeah, like I could sell a coaching school out like 10 times in a weekend because no one was playing footy, there was nothing to do at that time, and and that kept me going. Like I would coach maybe 20 or 30 weekends a year, and then yeah, it's a whole thing. I don't know how much you want to get into it, but that sort of led me into the online space and blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, and and and and off I went. Um, so I didn't really start the coaching business till probably 2021, but I was always doing it from the day I retired, you know, stopped racing to when I started doing it full-time again. I just took a few, took a few zigzags. No, that's not between racing and that.

SPEAKER_03 45:56

That's something that we definitely want to get into. Um, when you decided so you so you were probably you were working your regular nine to fiver and coaching at the same time, and then at some stage you just had to make the leap of like, you know what, I'm gonna quit my regular full-time job that's managed to get me a house and a mortgage and whatever else, and just jump into this coaching kind of thing full-time. Was it just mainly locally in Victoria? And how hard was it to make that decision to just step away from the security of a full-time job and jump into the coaching world? Because there were lots of other coaches around at the time too, so you're kind of going into a world that's had that before. It's not like it was the base the early part of your coaching business, I guess. It's not like it was revolutionary like it maybe is now. Um, yeah, a tricky one to decide to pull out of a regular full-time job and just focus fully on coaching.

SPEAKER_00 46:44

Not for me, no, no. So I'm I'm I'm maybe a little bit back to front. Uh, I'm kind of wired for risk, I guess you would say. So the day I got my loan approved through that job was the day I quit the job. So I just took on 300 grand of debt and I was like, fuck this, I'm out of here. Yeah. Good idea. Well, that's that's I don't know, it's just the way I guess I've sort of always been. Um risk, yeah. I I weigh up risk, but it just doesn't deter me um a whole heap. So yeah, I left that full-time job because I hated it. They um they sent me down to Melbourne to work on a on a real estate development. I was crushing rock in a 20-ton excavator all day to do, do go, do go, do go, doogga, and it was drove me nuts. I was sleeping in my van out the front of the Craigyburn police station because I didn't have any money. I was putting it all towards a house. And I was saving 70 bucks a night by doing that. I was down there for like two, three months. And I was sort of just waiting to get to that, I think six or twelve month period to get the loan approved. And then the the day I got that loan was the day I quit, uh, like probably within minutes. So I sent him an email. I called the broker and I said, if I quit my job, do I keep this loan? He said, Yes. I said, cool. I am out of here. That led me into concreting. Uh, so then I started just as a concretor's laborer, just for uh a young mate. We were the same age, like we're running mid-20s, late 20s, uh, here in a truca where I live. And basically throughout this whole time, like I would coach on weekends, and I wasn't so much doing it as a business because I loved, you know, to make money, sorry, or anything like that. It was just that was my way of staying sane. Like I had to be involved in in bikes in in some degree. And I thought, you know, I may as well just pass on my knowledge to kids. And it just grew really organically, like it was sort of more of a requested thing. Like, are you doing a school here this weekend? Can you do one here? Da-da-da-da-da. Just in my local area. I traveled to, you know, Broken Hill to Swan Hill to Wagga, down to Maffra and just to local clubs on weekends. Uh, and I absolutely loved it, like it was awesome, but it wasn't much more than the passion project for me. Obviously, I was charging people. I think I was charging like maybe half what the you know standard industry rate was of others. Um, and it was just something I loved to do and and and to ride. So I kept laboring as a concrete throughout that time. Like I was a concrete laborer for probably two years, and and the coaching sort of just kept building and building and building and and sort of just grew organically, really, just in the yeah, just just doing events at local clubs. That was how I made it work.

SPEAKER_03 48:59

So um yeah, okay, well, so it's gonna be interesting to get into this now then because you've you you know from what we can see from the outside, you've gone from sleeping in your van outside the police station to uh to to help fund your$300,000 mortgage, um, you know, your first home, to, you know, which wasn't that long ago. We're talking 2020, 2020-ish, 20 around. 2018, I got the line. 2018. Yeah. Uh you know, it's eight years ago, uh, to now, um, and from you know what we can see, you've had a lot of success success in that space. Um where did were you MWMX in those early days just trotting around to random clubs on the weekend doing a little bit of coaching? And was it an official MWMX kind of thing then, or were you just coaching as Cal Macon before you started to go, you know what, I can turn this into a proper business?

SPEAKER_00 49:48

Yeah, no, it was just like it was Cal Makum coaching. I'd put a post on Facebook with my mobile number and just said, text me if you want to come, and that was it. I didn't have a website in it. No, it was just purely just like a passion project for fun kind of thing. And um, yeah, it it I just loved doing it, and it was good, you know, and I kind of needed that. Like we we sort of skipped over it a bit, but there was during that time after racing, and and I know almost every racer probably goes through this, like you have a massive loss of identity, like you don't really know what you're doing, and you don't know which direction to go and fuck life shit now. I used to ride every day, now I've got to show up here at six o'clock. It's like, what do you do? And I guess the low point for me, and it it's relative to what we spoke about earlier, like the the fire I had underneath me because I was held back and had to work and I got to see what a pro-lifest I was. I sort of had another one of those moments, I think it was late 2017-ish. Um I was just just a real shit night, we'll we'll put it out. I sort of I was down in Melbourne, I can't remember why, but I'd got the train back to uh my hometown of Chuca where I lived, and I didn't have a license at the time and I had bugger all money, and I was on the train and I fell asleep, and these two scumbags went through my bag and they stole my wallet and they spent all my money on fucking wish.com. And I I woke up and I see my wallet was missing. I'm like, I'm stressed and I'm running up and down the train, getting the conductor, they're taking me money, and it turns out this big fat woman was in the bloody toilet spending all my money. I didn't have a phone, I just I'd broken it, I couldn't afford another one at the time, so I didn't even know it. And I borrowed someone's phone, said they'd spent my money. Oh my god, it's just turning the shit. And then I got to achuca, which is where the train station ended, at about 11 o'clock. Got in my van, just an old old van that I had, and I had an hour's drive back to where I lived. And it was middle of winter, and I didn't have any money, and the van didn't have enough fuel to get home, and I'm like, well, fuck, I don't know what to do. So I just started driving. And um, about six uh probably three months before this, I broke up my femur, and I ended up running out of fuel 12.6 kilometers from home. I still remember it. And it was middle of the night, midnight. There's no taxi services where I live. I'm fucking still just on crutches, just gotten off crutches, and I'm broke. I've got no phone, I'm out of touch with my family. Like we hadn't spoken for a year or two. I've got no direction in life, I've got no stable job, I'm still just cutting wood in this old truck that kept breaking down. And I walked that that distance, 12.6 Ks to home on the one leg, middle of winter, freezing cold, and I got like a kilometer from home and I heard these dogs barking and like aggressive dogs barking. I'm like, fuck, and I'm already had enough. So I jumped up on this stump uh about a kilometer from home, middle of the night, pitch black. These three hungry dogs below me barking at me, and I was just that was the low point of my life, I would say. Like I've got 31 cents in my bank account, it turned out money was all come. I had no family to call. I'd sort of fallen out of touch, you know, with my friends because I'd I'd raced and not kept up with them. No job. Like, I've lost my racing career. I've gone from the ADB up and commercial, believe it or not. I wanted to this point on the stump with 31 cents, and I'm just like, fuck this, I never want to feel like that again. And um, that was for me like the turning point, I would say. Like from that point on was when I started to get my shit together and sort of not blame my circumstances on on why I was there, but look in the mirror and and say, why am I here? Sitting on the stump with no money and no license. I'm in and out of court, I was getting in trouble and just turn the shit. Um, and it was from that point, it'd been a steady progression. So that was when I started getting that full-time job and started doing the concrete and started doing the coaching and and started to work on myself and better myself. And um yeah, basically got to that point where I was sort of ready to go, you know. I was entering the business world. I'd had an ABN since I was 15. Like I'd just sort of always been self-employed, and that was when I started, I didn't go full-time into coaching, I started my concrete business first, and I was just doing both simultaneously. So I was concreting, I started my concrete business, and then I would coach on the weekends. I'd concrete during the week, coach on the weekends. And I did that for probably two, three years. Uh, and I did really well out of it. Like I loved it, enjoyed it. Uh, it was it was a great time. I think at the most I had maybe five or so staff. Uh, we're doing some really big, good commercial jobs, like was going fantastic, coaching on the weekends, that was awesome. Like, I basically made it out of the 31 cents to, you know, now I've got a home, I've got a nice car, I had a plane, I was flying around in. Uh, you know, I was yeah, I was comfortable, like I did really well through it, but it was from that 31 cent point that it was like six or seven years of just you know, just work, I would say, which is kind of relative to my my racing career, because I hit that point where it's like, okay, I've got no sponsors, I've got no family helping me. It's on me. Let's go. And then, you know, that was sort of the the point that symbolized it in my my work life, and that's led up to to where we are now, where it's um man, life's different. I'm just kind of phrased. That's what I was gonna say. I mean that's like the journey, yeah.

SPEAKER_03 54:49

What so so what do you think, you know, like what's what's the biggest issue for riders leaving our sport then? Um, especially maybe that haven't been able to make a huge amount of money in the sport to kind of set themselves up with a base. What's the mistake that they make leaving the sport in a position that you're in? You were in.

SPEAKER_00 55:08

Gosh, it's a good question. It it's it's so individual. Like, I try not to generalize because it you know, for everybody, the circumstances could be so different, but yeah, it's it's a tricky one to answer without you know seeing someone's specific situation, but I guess just having a plan for your life kind of thing, like just knowing where you want to go and what you want to do. Like it's the old, you know, you can certainly sail at sea, but if you've got no map, you'll be out there forever. Like you got to have a direction, like a port that you go into. And it wasn't until I sort of got that, like you know, put a mud map down of okay, my racing career is done. What does after racing look like? And then I started making the steps. I'm like, right, well, I've got nowhere to live. The van sucks. So I should probably try and get a house. Cool. How do I get one of those? Well, I need these paces looking things, and then I did that, and basically, yeah, I just have a plan, I would say. Um, you know, and everybody's plan will be different. Maybe some will be stepping into a family business. That wasn't really an option for me. Maybe some love the sport and get an opportunity in it where they can be a marketing manager or work for a company or maybe ADB, like maybe that's what they'll be able to do. For me, I was a little bit bitter. I didn't want to be involved in the sport uh, you know, at that sort of time, apart from just doing the coaching as like I wanted for some others, maybe they just, you know, they love security and they just, you know, just want to get a nice, comfy job and and go that direction, or you know, maybe some want to take on the world like I've seen to want to do. And you know, I guess just saying having a plan of where you want to go. And although it won't be right the first time you make it, at least have direction. Because if you don't have direction, you know, I can tell you from experience, you you know, you go some bad places. And um, as long as you've got that little north star just somewhere, just in the back of your mind, and and you know, each day you just stack one block towards it. I think that's certainly you know the best thing. The ones I see get in trouble are the ones that just sort of, you know, if you ask them, okay, where do you want to be in five years after you race? And they're like, I don't know. Yeah, yeah. And that that's where you know, idle hands are the devil's play tools, they say. Um, you know, but having a plan and is is basically what changed it for me. So that would be my advice. Whether you sit down with your parents, a p somebody, a racer, me, or like whoever it is, um, yeah, that that's certainly the change it for me.

SPEAKER_03 57:17

Yeah, have a plan, huh? Yeah, because you know, so many people that we speak to, so many young people we speak to, when we ask them that question, like what's the plan for after the career, they just kind of shrug their shoulders. And I guess you know, a lot of the lifestyle of the riders that have been successful in our sport, you know, the top three, let's say, whether they're here or the US or over in Europe, um, life does look pretty good for those guys after they finish, but they're the you know, the freaks, they're the ones that that that's the that's a very small percentage. And I think people, yeah, you know, young kids get caught up in the idea that that could be me. So I don't need to worry or think about what am I gonna do when I finish racing if that actually doesn't happen, which in all honesty is more likely not to happen than it is to happen. Yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_00 58:03

It's it's gonna happen, and and you're more set up for failure in life when it happens, yeah, hobby than you know, the average person just leaves school, gets an apprenticeship, and you know, and and off because there is a plan built for that. You know, you leave school and there's all these pathways, and your parents force you into them. And whereas racing, you kind of just get dropped out there at whatever age, mid-20s, and you're dumb as shit, and you've got no idea what you're doing at so you know, you kind of got to have yeah, just a little bit and a little bit of knowledge to it, I guess. Yeah, for sure. I like that. I don't think anyone's been able to retire from from Osmoto and not work again, yeah. To my knowledge, totally agree. No idea. Certainly. Maybe they get a year down the track, you know, like it's yeah, it's it's it's coming, yeah, inevitably.

SPEAKER_03 58:43

You look at our most successful races, Jay, uh, Jay Marmont, Dean Ferris, you know, even like Coppins, they've all wound up in jobs. I know Ferris is back racing now, but they were doing things as soon as you know racing finished. So um, yeah, it's not a it's not like the US or Europe, unfortunately. Um okay, so you you you mentioned in all that that you know you went from um 31 cents and then you started building your businesses, you had the concreting business, you had your coaching business, you finally were able to start afford nice things, including a a plane. That's a big jump from 31 cents to that. Um did you did you at what point in your career or life, should I say, did you go, you know what, I can focus on coaching and make more money and have a more successful business coaching than concreting? Were you did is this during that COVID period when you came up with the idea of maybe we can put together an app, maybe we can put together a website that helps people coach where I don't have to be at all the coaching schools, etc. Where where is that kind of point where you go enough concreting? This side's big enough now. I'm gonna focus fully on MWMX.

SPEAKER_00 59:50

Yeah, so it's kind of a wild story. Um just just an organic thing again. But as I mentioned, like I was working, whatever, whatever. I'd I'd I thought what I needed and wanted was was money, obviously, not having it sucked. And I got to a point where I had it, life was going great, had all these things, and then um I was just recreational pilot. Like I had a plane I would fly here and there just on weekends, and I was flying to Bright one day, and I just kept having this urge to jump out the door. I wasn't suicidal in the slightest, but I just could not stop my mind from looking out the door, going, I wonder what that would be like. It was really, really weird, like, and it freaked me out. So I immediately, I was just by myself. I immediately landed the plane at Wangarata Airport. Sat there and I'm like, this is weird. Like, you know, something's not right. I've got all the car, the house, the money, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah. What's missing? There's clearly something missing because that's not normal to have happen. And I picked up my first book, it was called Meditations by Marcus Aurelius. It's basically a book on stoicism, and and uh it's kind of just like a roadmap rules for life. It's a philosopher king from from like 200 AD. Um, and it's just a journal to himself, actually, and it's been publicized as a book since. And it all kind of revolves back to just having a purpose and focusing on what you can control. And obviously for me, that's what I was lacking. You know, I'd gotten the money and the whatever, whatever, but I didn't have a purpose. You know, nothing was getting me out of bed that I was excited about to go and do that was bigger than me that you know I felt would make a difference. So, what they say is, you know, you'll find your purpose in your childhood, you'll figure out what you love when you're young, and um it'll sort of linger and hang around. And for me, that's probably the most fortunate aspect of my life is that that's always been bikes. It's not never ever been a doubt. Um, and so I was like, right, well, obviously I need to do something involved with bikes. Um and the goal I set for myself was to be a net positive to the sport of motorcycling. So that was I've got all this written down, it's got a board there somewhere. And I thought, well, how do you be a net positive to the sport of motorcycling? And my answer was, well, the more bikes I can get on tracks, the more positive that is, right? So, you know, if you were to measure it, more bikes on tracks because of what I'm doing, that's a good thing. Um, and that basically led me to right, I want to transition out of concreting because although the money's good and it's fantastic, whatever, whatever. I don't love it, you know, it's I'm I'm getting burnt out. I want to coach during the week. How do I coach during the week? Well, the online space, you know, there's an unlimited amount of people there. You can coach kids in India and Pakistan or America, it doesn't matter. Um, so that was when I built my first website. So then I would concrete during the day, I'd build the websites at night. I started my first website, like a Wix website, it cost me 400 bucks, just building myself after hours. Was doing a bit of coaching through that, and I'm like, oh, this is cool, like it's taken off. And then I was got to the point where I was knocking back concrete jobs and just focusing on the coaching. And then I was doing private coaching during the week, still doing the public schools on the weekend. That led into my second website. It kept growing and building. That led into the social media stuff. And then throughout that time, I'd always sort of done um, I'd done raffles for the Blue Trade Project. So they're like a men's health charity over in Western Australia, and I'd done it through like the charity system where basically you just raise funds and pass them all on to a charity, but you're you're able to cover your marketing costs. And that sort of taught me the ropes and entered me into this promotion game now that I do a lot of. And basically I wanted to upgrade the website, so then that led me into an app, and then it's just sort of grown organically where I've I've said, you know, signara to the concreting and and um just taken on more and more and more of the bikes. And yeah, it's grown into I think we last I checked, it was 90,000 riders in the app. Um wow. I've got a customer base of over, yeah, hundred different thousand customers, maybe two million in giveaways. Um yeah, it's just just organically grown, all from the the mindset of being a net positive to the sport, and how can I get more bikes on tracks? And that's basically just my founding principle and in everything that I do, whether it's like the privateer thing we're about to launch or you know, getting into the internet, it's all just founded upon upon those those principles. And um, yeah, it's worked out pretty good.

SPEAKER_03 1:03:47

There's so much information in there that I need to uh extract here as a journey because I feel like you've left so much out. Okay, so yeah, yeah. Are you a tech expert? Are you a software designer writer? How do you go from pouring concrete? How do you go from pouring concrete to I built a website? Firstly, secondly, you you have good business acumen. Did you have a mentor? Did someone mentor you and explain to you how you do this as a business? Because most people wouldn't even know where to start. So, like yeah, like I said, there's so many questions around what you just kind of summed up in once in 60 seconds there. Yeah, do you how how do you build a website for starters out of nothing? Like, is that something you had to learn and was that a tricky process? And and then how did you market that? Was this kind of we had social media, but you talked about building an app that people could get online? You have to get it to people. Um, people have to be able to see it to subscribe. And then did you have a biz a mentor somewhere there to help you build what was uh, you know, maybe prior to this, what we're talking about a basic business into what it is now?

SPEAKER_00 1:04:48

Yeah, yeah. Um, no, no mentor to speak. It's like I just been fortunate in my life, like, and it's probably from watching my grandfather build a business. Um, he ended up being one of the largest thread gun producers. And then my parents were flat broke when I was five years old, and that was when they started their business. So I got to watch that grow. And it's always just been natural to me to do the business route. And then I just I don't know, I get obsessed with things. I always joke to my wife that I've got Asperger's. Um just so I get so like obsessed with things, like to the point where it becomes unhealthy. And I'm just, I don't know, I just I'm willing to learn. So just self-taught. Um yeah, it was it certainly wasn't fun. Like I didn't own a computer, I'd never owned a computer until 2020.

SPEAKER_03 1:05:34

Get out of here.

SPEAKER_00 1:05:35

Yeah, I brought my first computer in 20, which is crazy. I didn't have a laptop. I ran my concrete business off my phone. I had an app called Invoice2go and I'd send out invoices to customers off my phone. No emails, just text. Um, but yeah, I just yeah, I yeah, I just I I I'm I'm fortunate. I don't want to come off across as like, oh, I work so hard. This now, I just I love to work, I love what I do, it's my passion. I'm obsessed with progress and I'm willing to learn, willing to be wrong. And um, I guess since that day on the stump, you know, it's it's just been a can-do attitude. If I was to sum up, you know, how I went from being just being a basically a spastic and to to being aware, it's just uh okay, I don't know how to get a pace flip. How do we get one? And then you just you learn and you teach and off it goes. So um a lot of trial and error, a lot of looking stupid, a lot of you know, late nights and and and embarrassing moments, things like that. But um, yeah, I guess those things just don't don't bother me too much.

SPEAKER_03 1:06:33

So yeah, I think you're probably underplaying your a bit of natural ability there to just to problem solve and uh figure things out. I think you know that's probably the one of the hardest things in life is to solve problems, you know, and get accountability. Yeah, accountability, account accountability issues.

SPEAKER_00 1:06:47

Like I've had times where you know I've ended up in a police cell lockup, and I'm like, well, this is no one's fault but fucking mine, and how do I fix it? And there's you know, there's times when my website crashes, and I'm like, well, this is no one's fault but mine, how do I fix it? And just never outsourcing a problem, always looking internally, going, what did I do to cause this? And what do I do to fix it? And if you have that mindset, um, you know, it's it's it's I don't I haven't it's been difficult to progress, but if you look at every bad thing that happens, just says, okay, how do I fix it? You know, and off you go. And you do that enough times you figure out, well, there's really nothing you can do if you if you just put your mind to it, and and um, you know, sometimes it sucks, sometimes it's hard, but what's the alternative? Yeah, you know, it's I don't like the alternative, so this is what I do. Um, and yeah, that's just what it's been, I guess.

SPEAKER_03 1:07:32

How how hard is it? Do you were you ever nervous? And it doesn't seem like you probably were, but when you decided, you know what, I'm gonna take this coaching stuff online, I'm gonna build an app where um I'm gonna get try and get people to subscribe to this app that have to subscribe, they can then get uh video tutorials, they can send me video tutorials. Um that's that's an element of risk. You said before you're you're uh risk adverse, or not risk adverse, but you're very you know, you're not you're not prone to risk. Um like as I I put plenty of people out there have a lot of ideas. People come up with ideas, yeah, they struggle to implement them and they're not willing to take the risk. That was a huge risk.

SPEAKER_00 1:08:09

Yeah, so the the app costs 108,000 to build. And every month 28 grand was due for memory. And I started it, I have like 30 grand to my name. So I didn't have a way to pay for it. But that's I I don't know, I just don't mind those positions. You know, I I've always found when your back's against the wall, that's when you make things work. So, you know, I've I've got countless stories where it's just like you're stupid, you shouldn't do that. But yeah, the risk has paid off. And for me, it's I probably skipped the part like I had a really almost life-defining moment. It kind of sucks to talk about, but I was doing a coaching school where um it fucking gets me emotional just thinking about it. Uh uh, it was the end of the day, I only had six riders, and a little girl was with her father, and and she left his side, and the riders had gone off to a different track, and she actually she got hit by the bike. And um we didn't think she'd passed away because she got hit. It was the next hour that that came to give you an idea. Like it was just a really, really horrible time. Like I was there with her father, and it was just yeah, it was funny, it was tragic. She ended up in a coma um for quite a while down the Royal Melbourne's and you know, they didn't know if she was gonna talk and talk again, speak again, anything like that. And um I sort of had a had a moment after that where I'm like, thank God, and and you know, like I'm not overly religious, but I I do pray for this things like this. Like, she's all good, she's come good. Like, I'm I'm very close friends with the family. There's been no dramas there. It was just a freak accident that happened. But after that, I sort of had a moment where I'm like, fuck, do I really want all the responsibility, all the burden of being in charge? Why don't I just attend coaching schools? Why am I hosting them? Like, why do I want to be doing all this shit? Like, I could take the lay on the beach, relax, participate, and consume everybody else's stuff rather than having all the risk, having all the liability, dealing with the stress, being responsible. Like, there's two paths here. Do I do I want the risk or do I want the security? What am I after? And that made me, you know, really look deep into that. And uh, it's a funny story, it's it's the sort of Democles sword where there's the king. Democles was is sitting in a chair, and the servant would pass him every day and he goes, Oh, oh king, oh king, I wish I could be in your chair, you know, because the king had all the fruit and all the women and all the money and everything. And the king would always say, Oh, are you sure you want that? He goes, Yeah, yeah, give it to him. He said, Okay, today you can have it. And so the servant sits in his chair and he gets all the food and all the women and all the this and all that, but he looks up and there's a uh sword hanging by a single horse hair. And as soon as he realized the sword there, he didn't want to sit in the chair anymore. He said, Oh, I want to be the servant, you know, because he was scared the sword was going to fall. It's an old story. And basically for me, I sort of just come to the the conclusion that I'm happy to have the sword there. Um, you know, I've tried to, you know, do the safe, slow, relaxed round. Not that there's anything wrong with that at all. It's just not for me. I end up worse off than if I'm dealing with all the stuff. And since that moment on, like, yeah, there's just no problem too big, there's no risk that you shouldn't take. And and um, you know, stress is good basically, to summarize it. So that's kind of leads to all of my you know business decisions and and why I'm I'm able to do things is that I I've genuinely looked in the mirror and decided that this is the route I go, consequences be damned, it is what it is, because I know the alternative, you know, it's just not for me. So um since that, yeah, nothing's really really been a huge issue. And yeah, thank God that um that little girl's okay because that was yeah, yeah, something that quite sucked.

SPEAKER_03 1:11:39

Yeah, for sure. That's that's kind of a sliding doors moment in your life, I guess. You could have gone either way, could have gone into your shell.

SPEAKER_00 1:11:45

Um yeah, but since that, like the ri all this risk, it's like it's just you know, that's the route you take. So don't win life.

SPEAKER_03 1:11:53

Yeah, um, let's talk about the the the success then of MWMX, because from what we see from the outside, it seems to have had huge success, and you're saying that that's largely due to the app um and the success the app has had, and the and the as opposed to um, you know, obviously just attending coaching on the weekends or whatever else it is, which you still do. Um the Lambos, etc., that we see in social media, the fancy cars, is that legit? Is that real? Is that the like your has it created enough success to have that kind of a lifestyle? Uh it's a hard question, but it's I want to know if it's like is it a play out for social media as a marketing tool or is it like it's been quite successful?

SPEAKER_00 1:12:39

I play it down. Yeah, I just with money comes problems, they say. But uh, so I think so uh MWMAX is according to my accountant when I went to him about the tax I pay, the largest or one of the largest, like top 20 solar operated founder-led businesses in Australia. So wow, I think we've generated over 10 million in revenue. Um it's yeah, like it's a pretty big thing, but I don't really focus on that or or care about that. So yeah, the success is is definitely um, you know, I've got a pretty decent property portfolio and um yeah, it's it's it's cool. Yeah, you know, I try not to care too much. It's that's just a side effect of you know trying to get more people on bikes and being net positive. And it just turns out when you if you give, you eventually get, yeah, is something that I've found. So yeah, regardless of how business big my business gets, um, it's always you know, I I stay true to those principles, but yeah, no, I think yeah, we're I guess we're an eight-figure business, which is is pretty cool. Um yeah, there's nothing wrong with success.

SPEAKER_03 1:13:44

I think as odds as we have this tall poppy thing where we don't like talking about our success, you know, everyone knows this. But you go to the US and that's all they talk about is their success kind of thing. Yeah, but there's nothing wrong with that. I think, like, especially, you know, you haven't had anything given handed to you. So many people, you know, there's a lot of trust fund kids out there nowadays that haven't had to work a day in their life, and and that's where their success has come from. Um, but but you have, and I don't think there's anything wrong in shying away from you know talking about what you've kind of built and been able to grow. Um and yeah, it's it's it's interesting because your take on this, your your success having been a racer and been you know, an elite race up, you've won a supercross title, you've been in that space, to then have had having had incredible success in an industry, a coaching industry that is all has already been done. People are coaching already, you just did it different. Um I think is something to be proud of. I think too, one of the things that um stands out to me watching from the outside is that you have a different uh take personality on um life and business in general. So, like for for lack of a better word, you've got that shock jock element of your marketing material, like your social media channels, how you people would see you and how they would come across. Hey, mate, and that's that's generating more people on your channels, and there's there's more likely then that they're gonna get across to your app and potentially join your app, you know, as opposed to people out there that maybe you know want to start a coaching business but don't like social media, so they're not on there at all, and they just expect it to grow into what you've created without any input from there at all. Do you lean into the the shock jock essentially? We're talking about Lynchy and that that fun kind of what you're having there. Do you lean into that because you know, hey, this actually attracts more attention to my business and getting you know growing the business? Do you lean into the shock jock factor?

SPEAKER_00 1:15:32

Yeah, of course. It's um yeah, such a common comment I get is oh, wow, you're so different in person to on the internet. Yeah, well, internet's kind of my business. Like the the way the internet works, it's it's an attention economy. The more attention you can get, you know, the more customers you'll you'll generate. It's just the way it goes. Now, there is a difference between generating attention and building a brand. Uh, you know, any old fool can can dress up and do something stupid and get it and get attention. What's difficult is building a brand. So building rapport, you know, a community and something that people actually like and enjoy. Um, so in my earlier days, like I got pretty good at generating attention. That's um, you know, negativity, the negativity bias in humans is pretty easy to exploit, I would say. Um, but now in my later stages, yeah, like I've sort of found a way to to turn that attention into you know good branding as well. And I think that's where you know the real unlocks with with my business have come. But you know, a lot of a lot of what I do is is genuine. Like I don't I don't script things, like Casa really did do a federal investigation into me for the quite bike. Um, I really did get investigated the other day by the VJCC. Like these things are all all genuine. Um if it was just normal me, like and I wasn't on the internet, like nobody would even know about me. I'm supposed to go about my life. Like I'm a pretty quiet person, I'm I'm very reserved by nature, I don't have many friends, like I just but it's it's business, you know. Like I always had the philosophy that if you're gonna be on the internet, you gotta be on the internet, you know, like there's no point being on there if no one knows. So as much as I don't like some of the shit that I do, and and I look back at it, I'm like, fuck, it's so cringe. It's just it's undeniable. Like, I I I literally I I make the stupid video, I look at the customers coming the door. Yeah, exactly. It's uh so yeah, I certainly lean into it, and um, I feel like I'm getting to a point now where I don't have to be stupid to get attention, which is fantastic. You know, like the linchy beef's kind of is pretty fun, but you know, it's I've learned the you know, I don't know, it's kind of more of a psychology play on on how to get people to notice you and like you at the same time. That that's the trick.

SPEAKER_01 1:17:40

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 1:17:41

Um, so yeah, I certainly certainly claim to it's my job, you know. It's kind of just like picking up a shovel, you need it to dig a hole. So yeah, you know, I need to post videos that get attention to to to build a brand and and build a business. So yeah, that's the way it goes.

SPEAKER_03 1:17:53

I like it. Um let's talk about actually. I want to know two of the how many 90,000 that did you say people subscribe to the app? Oh we're going back in the in the in our chat a bit here.

SPEAKER_00 1:18:03

Uh our user, uh our total customer base is is yeah, between 90,000 and 110, I think. That's how many customers we've we've generated.

SPEAKER_03 1:18:11

Are they have you got a breakdown? Are they here, Europe, Asia, America, spread evenly?

SPEAKER_00 1:18:18

Yeah, probably no, it's probably 70% Australia for sure. Uh New Zealand's our next biggest. And then I think I can't remember, it's like Pakistan, I think, is the biggest country. Yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_03 1:18:26

Um lot of good packy riders going into Supercross and stuff. Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 1:18:31

No, they I don't I like I get videos all the time from them on like the atomics and the scooters and shit. It's so cool because you can send in your videos and we score them and assess them like inside of the app. Um that's good. Yeah, the those countries, those countries pump. So yeah, we we run ads all over the world and and um have customers in in gosh, last time I checked, it was like 28 countries from memory. Um but predominantly Australia, for sure. Predominantly Australia.

SPEAKER_03 1:18:55

So so is it just you or have you got a team?

SPEAKER_00 1:18:59

Um Yeah, that's what I thought. I've I've got a I've got a developer like a heart a developer who does hardcore issues, he does about 35 hours a month for me. Yep, I've got a young fella, uh Jack Stanford, who actually runs True Grip over in New Zealand, who does maybe 20 hours a month of app um of content, sorry, on our socials. And then I have had you know, I've outsourced in the past to people, to contractors here and there, and I've had some employees, and I just I don't know, I don't like it that much. You know, it's it's yeah, I um certainly if there's fantastic good people out there to work with, I would, but um, yeah, it's largely, you know, 90% of the 95% is myself. And I'm gonna give a shout out to my wife, mate, because I don't know why. Like, yeah, when I say it it's just me, it's kind of not because you know, my wife puts up with a lot of shit. Um, you know, that that comes as a result of running a 24-7 online business.

SPEAKER_03 1:19:56

Yeah, the downside is being online, that's right, especially a global online business is it's it's midday somewhere, somewhere. So someone's sending you videos or wanting questions, and yeah, yeah, it's just the nature of it.

SPEAKER_00 1:20:08

You know, everything's instant and um everyone's got access to you. So but it's it's I'm not complaining.

SPEAKER_03 1:20:13

Hey, last little questions I got for you. I want to know how you you've given away a gazillion bikes. That's pretty much years ago when you first started doing that. That's how what that started popping up more on our space, seeing you more is all the bike giveaway bits and pieces. Um, can you give us an explanation roughly on how the the bike giveaway ties into because because it looking from the outside, it's like, well, hang on, you do coaching, that's what you do, but you also give away bikes as well. Explain how the two kind of interact and where the giveaway bike thing came from and also how it works.

SPEAKER_00 1:20:44

Yeah, yeah. So the bike giveaways, the technical term is trade promotions. So basically you get a license, you get a permit, and you can give things away to promote your trade. Now, it can be a little bit of a questionable industry because there are some ding bats out there that, you know, what trade are they promoting? They're giving away discount codes to, you know, God knows what. Um, so for us, we give away our dirt bikes, like we run our promotions one or two or sometimes three a week. Everybody that makes a purchase on our site gains access to the app. And then once they're in the app, they can also become a member. Uh, you get partner discounts. We do member events where you can come and write for free. We're about to unravel a um a privateer prize money payout program. So by simply being a member, uh, you'll be eligible for up to$10,000 a month in our payouts. That's just what I'm putting up. So$100,000 for the rest of the year. Like that's a perk of being a member, of being a customer of ours. Obviously, you get the app, uh, you get the coaching schools as well. And basically, it's like a big subscription model with all these bonuses that you can get. And part of that is is we run our promotions to you know advertise it and promote it. Um, so I think we've given away yeah, 226 giveaways. Oh gosh, I think I don't know, I purchased like 150 odd bikes at this point, um, which is the coolest part because I get to go to all local dealerships and and things like that and buy bikes, which is is awesome. And all that money, you know, goes straight back in. Um, and yeah, all of that basically fuels the app, fuels the coaching schools, fuels everything else that we do downstream of it. And it's been awesome. Like it's been fantastic. It started as a doing them for charity for the Blue Tree project. Actually, started at the same time as Adrian. I just wasn't smart enough to figure out that I could do them to promote my business rather than do them to raise funds for a charity. Uh, not that this, you know, either way is good or better, but um, you know, about three years later, after doing the charity route, I then went into building the app and the website and I thought, well, I may as well do these to promote my products, which is the app. Um, anyone that makes a purchase gains access to the app, which is an Unreal product that you can send your footage in. Uh, you can get riding assessments within 24 hours. There's hundreds of hours of content. We've got a track locator, uh, we've got a Stargate reaction game. Uh, there's a bunch of cool little things in there that basically the idea of it is just to remove the barrier and make it easier for riders to get into the sport, you know. So you can have a coach in your pocket 24-7, uh, you can spend five bucks, try and win a buy, gain your access to the app. You can save some money with our partners, you can come to our events for free. And that's really, you know, the basis of it is trying to just remove as many barriers and and reduce the friction on getting people in. Um, so I go wave my arms on the internet, get a bunch of attention, spend bucket loads on Facebook ads. They go to the website, they make a purchase, now they're in the app, now they become a member, now they come to our events, so on and so forth. And uh probably the most rewarding part of it is hearing from people how they haven't ridden for years, but they've gotten back into it now, or you know, they've improved their writing through the app and uh they usually find us via the giveaways so they work uh in the way that they're supposed to, yeah. Yeah, yeah, okay.

SPEAKER_03 1:23:42

All right, okay, so that makes more sense because yeah, it was it was it's more of a driver to go back to sign up to the app than it is, hey, um we've got this, you've got in a second business or a fifth fifteenth business model, which is bike giveaways. People can you know enter to win the bike, they've got to join the app, then they get an entry into winning the bike.

unknown 1:24:01

Correct.

SPEAKER_00 1:24:01

So same like I don't know if you know the McDonald's Monopoly. Yeah, uh, you know, you you buy a Coke, you get your Monopoly thing, you can win things, or the Woolworth's Bushies, or the uh you know, the cattle attacks we're giving away our Mustang the other day I've seen like there's many examples was of them. I basically just do it with bikes and then I I do it on the internet, which amplifies it again. Yep. Um yeah, and to model that's work.

SPEAKER_03 1:24:22

So um, mate, we've been chewing up an hour and a half of your time. So we're gonna we'll wrap things up soon. I got I want to ask you three. We've got a quick fire kind of questions we ask that off the top of your head. Um and this is coming back to probably your racing day. So I'll fire them at you. Um see how you go. Favorite teammate or person to race?

SPEAKER_00 1:24:41

So perfect teammate.

SPEAKER_03 1:24:43

Favorite teammate or person to race?

SPEAKER_00 1:24:46

Oh gosh, Luke Clout was fun. Luke Clout was fun. Uh, it was a rivalry for sure. Like I wouldn't say it was, you know, like I enjoyed racing him, but it was it was exciting. So I'd say cloudy for sure. It was like a two-stroke, four-stroke dynamic. Yeah, people got behind it a bit, and that was pretty cool. Yeah, yeah, I remember that.

SPEAKER_03 1:25:00

That was cool. Um, worst teammate or person to line up next to.

SPEAKER_00 1:25:06

Um worst team. It's always a tricky one. Matt Moss. I love Matt. I love Matt. Like he's a dear friend. Uh, you know, he he he can be a handful of people have their opinions and and whatever, but I'd say Matt was the best and the worst because he was the only one. Yeah, he certainly chewed up all the part budget, burning out all the clutches, uh stuff like that at Suzuki. So yeah, I was getting all the hand-me-downs, but at the same time, he was also the best because if it wasn't for him, I I don't think I would have had a pro career. Yeah. Um, genuine, genuinely. Yeah. Okay.

SPEAKER_03 1:25:37

Maybe Lynchy too, throw him in there. Um Lynchy, who's that? Who's that? Uh, and the last one, mate, most gnarly racing incident or most gnarly race you've ever done. If there's anything you've randomly gone over season raced or locally that you're like, that was friggin' crazy, that race, or that particular incident. What do you got?

SPEAKER_00 1:25:54

Yeah, yeah. So we we skipped it, but I actually won an Indonesian Supercross championship uh when I was like 16, and that was wild. That was like there was riots after a race. I've seen two people get killed more often than not, mud. Like it was like it was next level. So the first race I went to, there was a full-on riot. I was getting hit in the head with bricks, and there was people climbing a fence, and the fence fell, and then there was a stampede, people died, someone got hit with a samurai sword. Like it was in the Steve Summerfield actually did a blog on it. You can look it up. Um, I'm gonna say that one because I was 16 in a foreign country by myself, no one spoke English. There's people dying, I'm getting hit with rocks. I'm just like, what the fuck is going on? So definitely, definitely every minute I spent in Indonesia was the wildest part of my career.

SPEAKER_03 1:26:41

Oh, that's awesome. It's funny, every time we ask people that question, it's usually overseas, and a lot of the time it's in Asia or you know, somewhere in in the home where they just go bananas for it.

SPEAKER_00 1:26:52

Mate, this race, like they were they were up on on um telephone poles and stuff like to watch. Like there was 40,000 people, and it was a very Muslim city, so they had some half-time dancers. Girls were showing too much skin, and that's what started the ride. People from the town stormed the event, so it got shut off halfway through, and then that was when someone got cut with a machete, they died, uh, the stampede, and the team and I basically just huddled in a corner of the pits, and everyone outside was loving rocks, and it was just a wild, wild experience. Like, yeah, just next level. Indonesia is next level. That's a podcast. Beautiful table.

SPEAKER_03 1:27:27

Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_00 1:27:29

Um, yeah, so crazy.

SPEAKER_03 1:27:31

That's a podcast in itself, that one.

SPEAKER_00 1:27:33

Um, yeah, it was it was um, yeah, I loved it. Honestly, the the opportunities and the experiences you get with bikes are just you know, like obviously, we've talked about a bit of the negative and the you know, the money can suck and the injuries and this and that. But my advice to anyone out there is fucking do it as long as you can. Yeah, do it as long as you can. Like, even if you're broke, you got no money, who gives a shit, mate? You're gonna have 40 years to um, you know, collect the paychecks. So, yeah, I I don't regret a single minute of Of my career and uh those experiences are second for none.

SPEAKER_03 1:28:03

I agree, there is so much opportunity racing dirt bikes, and it may not be as lucrative, but it'll give you such cool experiences. Even Gibbs is racing in Thailand randomly at the moment. You know, you got Jay in Japan, even on the Enduro side, Stefan Grandquist has been going over the last two or three years to race enduro in Japan just because um yeah, there are so many. I remember chatting with Tom McCormack, who was an Enduro racer a a little while ago, and um probably similar to you, he kind of pulled out in his mid-20s, but he was telling me about a race that he got asked to go and do. He was racing for Yamha at the time in Papua New Guinea, and similar story. He's like, I wanted to quit halfway through this race because he kept going down all these bush trails, and there were just guys waiting for him with machetes because they thought it'd be fun to swing at him on the way through, and he's like ducking machetes. They're the kind of experiences and stories you can't get playing footy.

SPEAKER_00 1:28:53

So you know, no, I like I used to say to people at my coaching schools, it's probably not good advice, but I'd say, look, if you want the best experience of your life, sign up for a supercross race because you'll be on the floor of Marble Stadium, you're at 40, you'll never get to do that in your life. But as a motocross or supercross racer, you can genuinely so who gives a shit if you don't make the main event, like just go and do it for the go and roll the triple. Who cares? Like how often do you get to be on the floor of you know Marble Stadium? Agreed, or just any any event like that. So, yeah, the the things that can come just by being involved, uh gosh, even like just being a mechanic for a rider that's you know, racing a supercross is an awesome experience. Like you don't even have to race. Um, yeah, and you don't quite realise that until you until you until you step away, I think.

SPEAKER_03 1:29:36

Definitely. So yeah, it's the best sport, yeah. That's why we love it so much.

SPEAKER_00 1:29:40

Um hundred percent.

SPEAKER_03 1:29:42

But mate, that's been awesome. Well, I feel like I've learned so much about your career and why you stepped away, and then how you built what you've been able to build. Um, and it is really impressive. I think you should be proud of it. And uh, like you said, there's a lot of love, there's a lot of hate from everyone, regardless of what you do as a journo, we're privy to it every single week and day. We write or say something that someone loves or someone hates, and you friggin' hear about it. So, and now that you know you're big in this in that social media space too, you you hear it as well. So, but anyway, I'd I'd encourage you to continue because it's it's been really cool to see the success that you've been able to achieve.

SPEAKER_00 1:30:14

Um, I appreciate that, mate, and thank you for your time as well. I was I was looking for my my ADB up and coming thing over there. I was gonna show you.

SPEAKER_03 1:30:23

Oh man, the ADB Awards. I remember having so I mean we could that's another podcast again, but the some of the large nights we used to have at the ADB Awards were so much fun. We used to get I remember one year I did a three days with Crusty Demons at the end of it. This is like 2012 or 11, and I was like, Oh, you guys are gonna come to the ADB Awards, and surely enough, like a two weeks later there they were, and it was quite a wild night.

SPEAKER_00 1:30:43

But anyway, do they still do them or they we do anything?

SPEAKER_03 1:30:46

Oh no, they kind of ended up a while ago. There just wasn't the industry support to make them happen. So maybe one day they'll they'll come back. But yeah, that was that was the heyday, mate. The glory days. Um, yeah, that's cool. Awesome. Awesome. All right, well, Cal thanks thanks for coming on, bud. It's been really interesting to hear about your life story, and um, I think it'd be fun to catch up someday at stage down the track and get into go into more depth about some of those particular stories. They're pretty cool.

SPEAKER_00 1:31:10

Yeah, awesome, mate. No, and I appreciate your time and and thanks for everything you guys do as well. Cheers.

SPEAKER_03 1:31:14

Thanks, mate.