EP#73 - Corey Hammond on heading to the Dakar Rally, Baja and Finke 2026.

In this episode of the ADB Podcast, we sit down with 2025 Finke Desert Race winner Corey Hammond for a wild chat about where he’s been and where he wants his racing career to go next. Corey opens up about his ambition to move into rally racing and ultimately become a long-term Dakar competitor, plus his experiences racing Baja and why international desert and rally racing is firmly on his radar.

We also dive into the incredible highs and lows of his last two Finke campaigns — from winning the whole thing as a privateer in 2025 to returning as defending champion with Factory Honda in 2026 and having his race turned upside down. Corey shares some crazy behind-the-scenes stories from both years, what becoming King of the Desert did for his career, and why Finke could ultimately be the launching pad for much bigger things overseas.

Transcript

SPEAKER_01 0:00

Welcome to the ADB podcast, where we talk all things dirt with your host, Mitch Lee. Okay, welcome to another ADB podcast, guys. Uh, today we're gonna talk to Corey Hammond, the 2025 think winner, and uh we'll have a very eventful 2026 think, and we're gonna get into that in a second. But before we do, I am gonna thank our sponsors, Dunlop. Dunlop sponsored the show. They've got uh some pretty cool tires. AT82 is a tie we've been testing for quite a while. We love it because it's multi-directional, we can flip it around depending on the terrain that you're riding for softer hearts. That's pretty cool. They've also got a new MX34 coming out, so we're gonna jump on that soon, too. But um, yeah, thanks to Dunlop guys, and big thanks to Sherko too. Sherko sponsor the show. They have some pretty ripper finance deals that actually were all only on their two strokes, but they're now on their four strokes. So go check them out. It's some of the best finance deals you can get, and those bikes rip. Uh, all right, Corey, thanks for coming on the pod, mate.

SPEAKER_02 0:51

Yeah, thanks for having me. I've been looking forward to doing this. We've been trying to tee it up a couple times now and good to finally make it happen.

SPEAKER_01 0:57

It's always tricky, mate, because uh unfortunately our sport isn't as big as everyone thinks it is, where we get paid to or you guys get paid to race and do nothing else. Everyone's got full-time jobs, mate, including you.

SPEAKER_03 1:07

So yeah, that's it. And definitely seems that way in the the desert racing side of things. Um, pretty much all of us still hold down jobs and work full-time, so it's just sort of a bit of a hobby to us, really.

SPEAKER_01 1:18

Yeah, I think there was probably a glory period there long time before you were even in the senior ranks, where like, oh, they had this thing called the Desert Tri Series where I think you've been like 30 grand. It was 20, 16, 17, 18, sometime around there. I know Pricey went over and run it, and Grabbo won it. Back when you had safaris that paid well, um, big KDM teams that paid well out at Fing. I remember chatting with Grabo, so this is probably 10 years ago now, and him explaining that you could probably make a half decent living just racing all those desert series. But yeah, that's that's that's that's not even uh an option really for motocross and supercross. There might only be two or three guys that are actually making a living out of it, unfortunately. Um, yes, lots of change, mate. Um, so we want to talk today about you, about everything, uh, about your your uh where you how you got to where you are now. Um want to talk a little bit about this year, 2026 as well, and kind of what happened um and yeah, what you got coming up for 2027 and some stuff you'd love to do later in life because you're you're um what 24 years old now?

SPEAKER_02 2:20

Yeah, 25 in October.

SPEAKER_01 2:22

Okay, there you go. So you've got you've got heaps of time to make anything work, so that's pretty cool. Um, baby, you're working today. Tell everyone what do you what do you do for a job?

SPEAKER_03 2:30

Yeah, so full-time uh like excavator operator, you'd say, been with my boss just over five years now, and on a we're on a drainage crew full time, so just sort of sitting in the digger 10 hours a day. And I yeah, I do enjoy what I do, and he's been good. He's watched me go from getting 40 at think at my first go to to winning it and signing my first sort of semi-professional contract, and he's really supportive of what I do and super easy with time off. So, yeah, very lucky.

SPEAKER_01 3:02

Hey, you chatting offline, you talked about how you know we're kind of talking about other things that you enjoy doing outside of Moto, you talked about fitness, um, gym work, that kind of thing. Um, to be able to do what you guys do and the speed you do out there, you you can't just come off the couch, although David Bosch seems to be able to do that. But aside from him, you can't just come off the couch and swing off a bike doing 180 something kilometres an hour for 230 Ks. What how do you squeeze training? Being someone who is so obsessed with getting your body in peak condition before you go racing, how do you squeeze it in with like a full-time job?

SPEAKER_03 3:38

Yeah, so for me, my day starts at 3am, my first alarm. Um, and then sort of in the gym by quarter to four, 10 to 4, and train at a CrossFit gym. And just over the years I've learnt what works best for racing and what areas I need a target. And so I just sort of got my routine that I go through, and um couple boys that that come in and train with me and sort of out of the gym by five, five thirty, depending on where I'm working, head home, shower, protein shake, and head to work from sort of six thirty to five thirty-six in the other.

SPEAKER_01 4:16

So sort of well, everyone listening, it's it's quarter to eight that night. So we might listen, we'll try to get this quickness I can get to bed. What time do you normally go to bed if you're up at three something? That's good.

SPEAKER_03 4:27

Uh not early enough, probably about nine, nine thirty for the time I um get home and get dinner and and lunches and all that sorted, but I'm pretty uh pretty used to surviving a four and a half, five hours sleep and where I want to go one day with Dacco. It seems like sleep is uh pretty pretty scarce. So just getting the body ready for that, you could say.

SPEAKER_01 4:49

Yeah, you gotta get you gotta get used to it. Um you talked about doing bike-specific stuff in the gym. What are you doing in the gym? There's probably a lot of guys out there. For those who haven't seen the photos of Hamo pushing his bike over the finish line this year at 2026, think you can tell he gets up to go to the gym at 3.45. If I was doing the same thing, you would know I do not get up at the gym to get up to go to the gym at 3.45. So tell us like what you know, you're a think winner. What are you doing in the gym? This is actually really helpful for a lot of riders, I think. What are you actually doing? Talk really detailed about the activities you're doing in the gym to do what you can do out of think.

SPEAKER_03 5:22

So I try and obviously lots of cardio and strength, I think, is pretty important as well. What we do at FINC. You need strong legs, strong lower back, core, and just sort of been adding in plymetrics, like the speed side of things. Um upper body, you gotta, you know, just keep everything in check and keep upper body strength there. But lots of yeah, squatting. Um, I do do love the assault bike sprints. I try and once a week do a really high intensity 10-minute cardio piece where it like super high heart rate, and then I also try and incorporate like a longer 20-30 minute sort of lower heart rate, but still, you know, your out-of-breath zone two, whatever you want to call it, um, just to sort of maintain that that longer cardio piece.

SPEAKER_01 6:13

Yeah, so um you kind of you don't are you doing like bench press and shoulder press and all those kind of things? Do you steer clear anything that's like bulk, gonna put bulk on?

SPEAKER_03 6:22

Um not really. I think with desert racing, you can get away with being like a bit more on the solid side because of what we're doing. I do do a little bit of bench, but mainly it's it's squats and some strict press, like overhead press, and um really trying to focus on the core lately. Like I had a pretty bit of a pretty um aggressive back injury earlier in the year that affected me quite a lot. So I've really dived into um starting to engage the glutes more and and strengthen the hips, just all that area. So I've just sort of sort of gone right in on that because I've seen the weaknesses in my body dealing with that back injury. So just trying to really strengthen the body as a whole.

SPEAKER_01 7:08

What was the back injury?

SPEAKER_03 7:09

Uh so I actually tweaked it at work, like bending over, slinging up all the pipes, and then I went into the gym on a Monday morning, and normally Mondays I squat heavy, and I remember walking out of the gym and I was like, oh geez, my back's sore, and just didn't think much of it. Oh, I'll train through it, you know, always got those little niggles and stuff, it'll go away, and it never went away. And it got to a point where I was struggling to put my boots on at work, and I wasn't riding because every time I'd ride, it would it would just flare up. So I ended up bulging a disc in my back. And I'm fortunate enough the last few years at Fink, I've met um Greg Greg Carser, who owns Bork Mills' sports video, and he's been amazing. Like he helped me last year when I broke my foot getting me ready for America, and then this year with with the back or the rehab, and I was trying to nurse it the first few months of the year, and it just got to a point up at Think. I was I was eating Voltarans and Panadoles like they were lollies, just trying to survive. And there were some days there if I didn't time the the Voltarans right, I was just jumping on the service road and and riding because just the pain in my back was was killing me. So we rehabbed it, rehabbed it, and then got a few weeks out from from think and ended up just getting the the cortisone shot just to get me through and and reducing the inflammation. And yeah, without Greg's help and assistance, like I definitely wouldn't have been able to to ride Fink at the level I did because yeah, five weeks out, things weren't looking good, that's for sure.

SPEAKER_01 8:48

Yeah. Which year was that this year?

SPEAKER_03 8:51

This year, yeah.

SPEAKER_01 8:52

Jeez, we didn't even know that. There you go.

SPEAKER_03 8:54

Yeah, so I was trying to keep it pretty quiet, and as you know, rumors, rumors spread like wildfire, and yeah, so kept it quiet and just um was rehabbing it and getting through, and yeah, it's just oh a few months out from think. Like I I wasn't riding three, four, five weeks in a row, just trying to rest the back, and then I'd go ride and it would just put it back to square one again. So but we we got through it, and since getting that cortisone, it reduced inflammation. I've really been able to strengthen the back and the core, and so far about three months in, and it hasn't come back yet. So okay.

SPEAKER_01 9:33

And was it all good for 26 think? Did you feel it in that little window?

SPEAKER_03 9:37

Nothing at all, and pretty pretty wild. Like when I went back up three weeks before the race, um, just how much better it was uh it allowed me to ride because I was so much freer again, like dealing with it throughout the year, testing it's crazy the way your body just adapts and you sort of favor one side. So when I went back up, even my mechanic noticed, he said that you just look free on the bike again, and my riding really started to um feel like it was coming back to me, started feeling like I was riding like myself again.

SPEAKER_01 10:09

Yeah. Um, okay, let's talk about 26 Fink then. Um, obviously not the year that you kind of wanted. Uh, for those out there that aren't aware of what happened, just to explain to us what happened and why you ended up having to push your bike across the finish line into Apache.

SPEAKER_03 10:24

Yep. So three weeks out from Fink, started feeling good and got my confidence back, started, you know, getting my head back in it again. And my whole plan was I just wanted to to dominate the weekend, really, without sounding arrogant about that. I just wanted to win prologue and win day one and win day two. So started the weekend off good. I put a good lap in and prologue and I think won by about six seconds and got to take off with my teammate David Walsh, who I've sort of idolised the last few years, working my way up at Fink and watching what he's been able to do. And yeah, got the jump on him out of the stadium, and I knew he was quick, gonna be quick that first 60. That's where he does all his damage. But my plan was just sort of keep it, keep the gap under a minute. And I know down that bottom end at Fink I've done a lot of work and uh felt like I'd done good. I rode quite tight to the to the 80 and finally started loosening up around sort of 120 mark, and unfortunately got to around Bunduma there, 140 mark, and could feel the rear end start getting a bit loose, and it was a flat tire, so I nursed it into the the fuel stop, and the boys changed that. And they said when I was there that the the split was 42 seconds, I think, at Bunduma. So I knew I was still in it, and then pushed hard all the way to Fink. And unfortunately, just the desert gods weren't on my side this year, and a couple K's out of Fink. Um, just freak thing and the chain snaps. So as soon as that let go, it just wasn't even an option to to call the race there. I just jumped off. Actually, someone got a video of it, the chain letting go, and I know it hasn't even the bike hadn't even come to a stop, and I jumped off and just started running with it. So I only got about 100 metres, and then I realized the finish line was further than what I thought. So I started ripping all my gear off and reassessing.

SPEAKER_01 12:23

Yeah, careful, mate. I was there with my wife, and I was like, oh, good thing there's uh we're nowhere near a big screen, so that's helpful. What um what so how far did you push? Do you know?

SPEAKER_03 12:33

I I think it would have been just under 2ks. Uh it was far enough that I thought this is gonna be brutal and this is gonna hurt, but still close enough that I thought this is this is manageable, I can do this.

SPEAKER_01 12:46

Uh yeah. We spoke with Cal Norton after the race, and he's like, Oh, I saw him and I felt so bad for him. I wanted to stop and help him because you guys are buddies, and so here he was like, Oh no, he felt for you, mate. I'm sure everyone did as they rode past you, especially when it's out of your control. He um got a flat tire. So there's a boy called Jeff Douglas, he's the bloke who owns a company called New Tech. New Tech make Nitro Mousse and Tubelus T U B L I S S, right? And um I was spoken to Grabbo about this heaps, and Grabbo has explained to me that you you just you can't run them the moosey in the rear out there because it melts them, especially the speed you guys are doing, they just don't hold up for the full race. Yep. Uh have you guys tried moose out there? And would when you got the flat, were you thinking to yourself, Whoa, could have I got away with the moose, or would have it just never worked?

SPEAKER_03 13:35

I think moose in the rear is definitely a no-go. Yeah. Like for the the top guys, just the speed we're doing and the heat that it would generate. We do run moose in the front, but this year, just when that I got that flat tire, I think that was my third flat tire in six years of race and think, and the other two have only ever been pre-running. So it's just normally you hit something as well that you go, Oh, I reckon that's that's a flat tire. I don't even remember hitting anything. Um so just just super unlucky. It's it's yeah, but I guess what happened to me is it's still a lot of positives has come out of it. It's done a lot for like um my exposure and me as a person showing my true colours and that never give up attitude. So yeah, a lot of positives are still coming out of it.

SPEAKER_01 14:28

So I'll have to um so I've got Jeff coming on a podcast in two weeks' time because he's American. Uh, he's adamant. I told him they can't run him at think of we we we caught up the other day on the phone just before you know doing a podcast together, and and he's like, uh he's adamant that you guys can run him out there. He's like, we run them at Baja, there's no reason why they shouldn't. I'm like, Well, I'll give you Grabo's number, you can speak to him, give him a call, because I none of them can run him, not at your speed anyway. Like, I'm sure the guys further way further back down the pack could do it, but um yeah, so but he's adamant you can. So, anyway, we'll we'll see what he says. When when I get back on the blower with him, and he's got some pretty wild ideas with all the stuff they produce, and I'll kind of get to the bottom of it, but anyway. Um, hey, uh let's talk about then like that um cro feeling of crossing the finish line knowing that you could have been first or second. Sorry, the finish line, the apertura line when you got down to Fink. You could have been first or second, instead you were so 33rd. Um was that disappointment? Uh did it make you upset? Like, what were your feelings coming across the line knowing that that's Fink done?

SPEAKER_03 15:31

I think when the initial thought when the chain snapped was just the just the the heartbreak of watching the chance at a win or a podium slip away. And then from there it was my mindset switched switched straight away to all right, let's just get this thing home in a top 30 and worry about next year. Uh I'm pretty good these days at like my win last year at Fink taught me a lot about not getting so caught up on the result, like just enjoying the work you put in before the race, like the process and and your systems. Because winning think last year, life doesn't change, like life goes on within a week, no one cares anymore. So win or lose, like it's it's just a dirt bite race at the end of the day, like it's not real life problems. So it's just like get over yourself. Come on, like there's people dealing with a lot worse things in life. So um just yeah, push it across the line. And I was a little bit annoyed all night, just sort of knowing where you could be, and but anyways, it's just uh it just tells a cool story. That's that's that's that's for sure.

SPEAKER_01 16:39

Um, does it did it have implications though? For you know, are you signed with Honda for 2027? And did the result this year have any bearing on what will happen for next year?

SPEAKER_03 16:51

No, there was no, it was just a one-year deal with Honda. If anything, it's probably increased my chances of signing again with him because of I mean, like that never give up attitude. Obviously, it uh it cost me a bit of money too, like uh watching that podium slip away. There was a bit of money on the line from from Honda and some some pretty um rewarding incentives and bonuses there. So, but at the end of the day, like I'm doing it because I love it. Like the money is just just a bonus.

SPEAKER_01 17:18

So yeah. Um, let's talk about the love then. Let's kind of get into how you transitioned out of racing off-roads and in a desert. Um and let's also talk about you live in just on the outskirts of Sydney, and Alice Springs is nowhere near Sydney. Are you flying you guys are pre-running a lot? Um, are you flying in or are you driving out there? What's the pre-run when and how many times and what does it look like in the lead up to a think from the day after the long weekend in June through to the day before the long weekend in June the following year?

SPEAKER_03 17:48

Yep. So grew up doing a bit of motocross and then got into the off-roads probably 2010, 2011, did the off-roads from yeah, oh ten, oh eleven all the way to 21. And we had those sort of couple COVID years there, and I was sort of fallen, fallen out of love with the the the bush riding and didn't really enjoy racing the off-roads anymore, and went quite stale and was aware of Think for a few years before that, and we thought in 21, let's come up and give it a go. So just come up on a 250 two weeks before the race and did a bit of pre-running, didn't pay any attention to the track. And I think I prologued 40th and rode out of the stadium on day one and just hit a wall of dust and thought this is the dumbest thing I've ever done. And got to Apatula in 40th, and then that was the year, unfortunately, the the spectator passed away, so didn't get to ride home. But the year after, said to dad, like want to have a bit more of a crack. So that's when we we come up, we drove up, did a week, and then drove home, and then we drove up two weeks for the race, and then we did that in 2022, 2023, and then 24. That's when we sort of started taking it even more serious. And we did a week, flew home, flew back up for another week, flew home, and then come back up for the race in the race van with like the the race bike and whatever else we needed, and that was sort of what started working a bit better. It just got too much doing that 27-hour drive a couple of times a year. So we'd just drive up in my Ute, leave everything up there, and then fly home a couple of times, and then drive back up before the race in the van with the race bike and all the other stuff we needed. So I think this year, I wouldn't do I did a week at March, a couple days at Easter, another week, sort of late April, and then I went went up three weeks before the race. So I've even watched it change the last few years. All the top ten guys are really starting to um spend even more and more time up there, which is cool to see. So just the the level of commitment and just the cost involved in running a vehicle up and down that service road, and um the just the running cost of uh keeping your bike going as well. So I know as a privateer, just just chewing through engine oil and and that stuff's not cheap, and then those Michelin desert tyres are ridiculous as well, like ridiculously priced. So things just add up. You're doing a tank of fuel in your in your U a day, so it's probably I reckon it's five hundred dollars every day you go down that track.

SPEAKER_01 20:37

Yeah, yeah. So tell us then, like is that going up say two or three times before the race, is that enough time to be competitive with the guys who live there, the Walsh's of the world? Like, does doesn't that put you at a disadvantage not being able to just go out every weekend like you do where you live and just ride it?

SPEAKER_03 20:57

Yeah, I think what Walshi has on his side as well is I think this year was like his 17th or 18th, I think. So there was that GoPro footage going around the other year of him doing that splash and dash, and he noticed that a tree had fallen down when he was coming into a section. So it just shows you how well he knows the track if he's noticing trees um are missing, where like I'd say I've I've pretty well got that whole track dialed, but I'm not noticing that there's a tree missing or something like that. So, and I think that's why you see people like myself going up there and spending weeks on end is because we are trying to be more competitive with those local guys that they might not ride during the week, but come the weekend, they're they're there, they don't have to travel, they just drive out of town and they're at the think track.

SPEAKER_01 21:46

So yeah. So why then? I mean, like you just explained, 27 hour drive there and there and 27 hours back. Um, tens over the course of the year, tens of thousands of dollars has got to be in in fuel and Consumables on your bike and your car. Why why? Why would you why do you do it? Why are you so obsessed with the race?

SPEAKER_03 22:06

There's something about think, I don't know what it is. It just draws you in. Hey, the from the moment you do your first one, whether it's you have a good race or a bad race, it's just we all keep going back every year, and we whinge about how much it costs us. Like I think when I was doing it like off my own bat with the support of my parents and some personal sponsors, it was a 60-70 grand race, and hence why I was on the the old bike for a few extra years. I just couldn't couldn't afford to go and buy two new bikes and all the parts that went with it. And I think my practice bike last year had 140 hours on it. So I mean I was buying boots off marketplace, just trying to make it work. So um yeah, there's just something about think that it's just hard to describe the the atmosphere and getting down to think end overnight and talking to all the boys. It's just yeah, there's no other race like it. So and I truly do think it it is the biggest race in Australia. Like, even with my work, I can go to any job site and racing dirt bikes comes up in conversation, and you tell them that you race think, and oh yeah, I know think. Like, where I feel like you you ask them if they know about Hatter, and not many people know of Hatter, like it's it's a big race, but there's nothing that compares to Fink, I think.

SPEAKER_01 23:29

Yeah, I totally agree. I'd say there's Bathurst, in I mean, I'm probably biased and I need to get my head out of our own sport, but there's Bathurst and then there's Fink in terms of motorsport events in Australia, you know. And I think uh because it now incorporates or has the last 20-30 years, uh, trophy trucks and buggies and everything else, it just brings those four-wheeled motorsport guys into it as well. So it's just huge. Um to tell us then, like going from off-road, racing off-roads as a kid, and then racing the desert, what what are the adjustments as a rider that you needed to make? Because everyone tells me when you're doing your speeds, uh things happening a lot faster than they are when you're running through the trees. You guys are still lightning fast through the trees, but when you're doing 180 kilometers down the track, your peripherals change, your eyes start bouncing, everything is different. What was the biggest adjustment going from the speed you do in the bush to then the speed you do in in at Fink?

SPEAKER_03 24:21

I think for me it was just getting comfortable at that speed. I used to hate going fast, and I mean surprisingly, yeah. Even at shows like my first year at Fink to to get 40th and to look at where I'm at now. I think just getting comfortable at that speed, and like you mentioned, even when we go up now, it takes you two or three days just to get your eyes adjusted to the speed. And I think think has really helped my riding a lot going to places like Hatter and that now. I I can get on all that fast stuff at Hatter, and I can round some of those off-road boys up because for them they're not comfortable going the speed and racing in the dust as well. At Think teaches you how to read read terrain in the dust, and those dust years at Hatter, it you really learn how to watch someone's helmet and know what's underneath you and be comfortable with that. But now, because I don't do as much off-road racing, I get into the trees at Hatter and I struggle with that tighter stuff, which is something I'm I'm working on and trying to get better at. So yeah, it was just mainly just adjusting to that speed was the biggest thing for me, and I'm sure the majority of the other guys would say the same thing that have come from an off-road background.

SPEAKER_01 25:38

Um speaking to Milner last year, I think it was, and um he talked about pulling Corey McMahon out of um Fink and getting him to focus on Hatter and the off-roads. Do you think Fink now has become so specialised and Hatter has become so specialised, and AEC is so different that it's possible to win Fink and Hatter? Do you think the same person can win Fink and Hatter?

SPEAKER_03 26:06

I think so, yeah. I think um, like like you just mentioned, Corey McMahon, he's a very well-rounded rider and grew up doing a lot of racing with Corey. You look at him, he's podiumed at Fink, he's won Hatter multiple times, and he's one of, if not the best guy in the off-roads at the minute as well. Like him and Will Rupert are going at it. So I think you got different caliber riders, and um yeah, I think Fink is very specialised, but there is some riders that can do all of it.

SPEAKER_01 26:38

So, and I think to to top ten at both Fink and Hatter is no mean feat as well, because they're such totally different races, so yeah, you know, you need to be a well-rounded rider, and there is a couple guys that are doing that, so um, yeah, I think back to like Toby Price was able to go AORC, Hatter, Fink kind of, you know, win win them all in the eight same year. Grabbo was pretty close. Um, but uh Ty even Ty Simmons, you know, I was chatting with Ty for another podcast about a month ago, and we were talking about you know just some of the stuff that that guy's done supercross, motocross wins, then AORC and Fink and Hatter wins and all this kind of stuff. He's podium at Fink. But since in that since then, we haven't really had one guy who's just been able to go out and just like Toby Price him that for everyone. Um, what do you reckon then you've got to improve on to do to try and take a hatter win off someone like McMahon? Um where where have you got to improve?

SPEAKER_03 27:35

With think you can rock up and just do your your week pre-running, your two weeks pre-running, and be competitive because you can only replicate think at think like by spending time on that track. And I I feel like it sort of evens the playing field at Fink because it all comes down to who wants to put in the work and who wants to spend the time up there. Where when we go to Hatter, I feel like yeah, we don't get to ride the track before race day, but it really comes down to those guys that get to race full uh ride full time and do it as a job, and then you've got people like myself that I might not I still class myself as a weekend warrior. It's not nothing unusual for me to go four or five weeks without riding a bike. So then you go to a place like Hatter, and you've got these guys that are riding three, four, five times a week, and people like myself that are trying to put it in that pointy end, and we don't ride. So for me, the the biggest thing is I need to make that leap to full-time racing and riding full-time, which will more time on the bike and just sort of sharpen the skills and try and run with those guys. So yeah, I I think for me, my next step at HADA is get a podium and got like a two-year or three-year process and then try and get a win there one day.

SPEAKER_01 28:53

Um with Think, I feel like Think's a bit different to off-roads and or even Hadda, but the off-roads where um off-roads you can kind of look at Josh Green, you can keep kind of riding racing off-roads into your 30s. You don't necessarily have to be winning every round, but you can still be the top three kind of guy, get a consistent bit of support there. Um, have you set like a a time as to when you'll hang the boots up at Fink? Is it a certain amount of wins? Is it a certain age? Is it because and also too, coming from like where you're coming from in Sydney out there, it's a massive commitment as opposed to Walshi, who can it's in his backyard, and so for him to race it for 17 seven or eight in times, whatever he's done, isn't as big a commitment as it is for you. So have you set like a limit?

SPEAKER_03 29:40

After I crossed the line last June first, I told myself that I wanted to go back to back. Unfortunately, didn't get to do that this year, but I think I want to get another win or two there. And for me, I'm just using it as a stepping stone right now for where I want to go, which is Dakar is my my ultimate goal. So we don't really have many options for desert racing here in Australia, unfortunately, for how healthy the sport is right now. Um for me, it's just I'm not chasing records or anything. I think it's just being trying to be the best Corey Hammond and just being happy with what I'm achieving and putting together good results and just working towards that goal of DACA.

SPEAKER_01 30:22

Yeah. Um we talked offline about you having you know a little bit of OCD, want being obsessed with bike setup um gear, making sure everything's clean, all that kind of stuff. Do you think that attitude towards life is helpful, not essential, but helpful to a race like Fink? Because I look at Fink and I go, it's it's very dangerous. It's probably got to be the most dangerous motorsport event we have in Australia. And you need to make sure when you're especially when you're planning to win it, like you guys are, you need to make sure that every um you know I is dot and t is crossed. Because if you don't, then serious con there's serious consequences. Um, do you think that helps that your that personality that build your personality uh to create to build you as a writer?

SPEAKER_03 31:08

Oh 100%, I believe so. I think like you what you just said, what we're doing at Fink is so critical and call it dramatic, but we're risking our lives every time we go down that track. The speeds we're doing, if we come off, it's not going to end well. So I want my setup 100% and perfect because um yeah, the speeds we're doing. So I was chasing that feeling this year going onto the Honda, just trying to find a setup that I liked. And I mean, it all comes down to how good your feedback is. I was a little bit lost there for a bit, trying to give my suspension guide GDR good feedback. And once we realized that we had to go stiffer, we were like we really started getting a good setup, and I started getting really comfortable. And I feel like some guys just um just say the bike's good and just ride it, which isn't a bad thing, but then it can bite them in the arse as well and spit you off. Where I look at videos of my bike compared to other guys up there, and it's yeah, it's noticeably better. So it's pretty rewarding when you you put in months of hard work and you know you ride that track on race day and see videos of it, and everything's clicking and feels good. So, but you you do need a good group of people around you. And Brody and everyone at Honda were really good, and anything that I wanted or needed, and if we could justify it, then yeah, we got it. So they were really good like that.

SPEAKER_01 32:41

What was the hardest adjustment going from KDM 500, that's what you won on, onto a Honda 450? We won't go into the whole 450 versus 500 debate and where they should be. That was that was well documented a few weeks back. But um, yeah, what was the biggest adjustment? It's like it's a whole not only is it a whole new capacity, it's a completely different bike. It's you know, steel versus alloy chassis, it's yeah, lot loads of completely different suspension components. What was your biggest adjustment?

SPEAKER_03 33:07

For me, the frame and probably the linkage, just how that was handling to the steel frame, learning that everything we did on the KDM, you could go softer and softer and get away with it. Those things we used to slam on their ass with 125 mil a sag and soft as, and it would just soak it up because those frames seemed to, when they bottom, they they'd still absorb more more of the energy. Where these steel frames just when they bottom out, they get ugly. So that's what I was dealing with. I was getting three, four whoops in, and it would start to to step out. So we we ended up going stiffer, and that fixed all of our problems. So we just run out of time, really. It wasn't until about three weeks out, I think, that we finally found a setup that I liked. And luckily, Greenie at GDR suspension is just a wizard and goes above and beyond for me. And we did probably four or five shock settings and two fork settings, I think. And yeah, got about three weeks out, and I said, Yeah, this is good, this is what I want, and just started putting time on that.

SPEAKER_01 34:15

Yeah. Hey, back when you were a junior, you raced against some names that we um, you know, kind of still see around the traps now. Uh Mason Simmons, Kyron Bacon, Bacon's over in um Europe racing a cowie, semmons is in the US. Uh even Josh Breley back in the days a junior was a gun. Do you ever look at some of those names and think, oh, if I just had of been, if I just had of had that same enthusiasm that they obviously still do for racing off-roads, could have chased something overseas. Is there any any regret of moving away from off-roads and becoming to most of us from the outside like a desert guy?

SPEAKER_03 34:49

Not really. I think everyone, like everything happens for a reason. So we're we're all on our own path. And I admire what Mason's done and Sam Pashir, like taking that leap and moving overseas, and how much they've progressed. So I think for me, I I feel like I'm in the right place. Like my heart's set on the desert stuff, and I can see myself racing Dakar. And what I like about Dakar is you don't necessarily have to be the fastest, raw, outright speed guy. Like, it's the whole piece of the puzzle, it's the the navigation side of things, the mental side. It's a 14-day race, whatever it is, so it's the physical side as well. Like, I've never been that that guy that has that raw or outright speed that's gonna give you that wow factor. So Dakar for me is where I want to go because it's you can put the whole piece of the puzzle together there.

SPEAKER_01 35:43

Yeah. Are you um buddies with I mean they're fair bit older than you, but Chucky, you grabo, and it would probably see anyone that's kind of gone before you and done Dakar? Are you buddies with any of those guys?

SPEAKER_03 35:54

Not really. Like I've I know of Chucky and I've been around him a little bit. I went down and stayed at Lyndon Snodgrass's house a few years ago for a week and was hanging around Chucky, and I actually spoke to Toby a little bit, I think, this year, but as far as friendship-wise, like I'm not not close with any of them. And that's the biggest thing here in Australia is we don't have any places where you can go do map reading and get that experience like Dakar. It's it's all overseas, so yeah, it's tricky.

SPEAKER_01 36:26

I know um I'm good buddies with Chucky, and like a lot of his the a lot of what helped him get into the rally scene was Grabbo. And so he and Grabbo are like best buds, and so anything that you know it's it's it's just getting your foot in the door is hard enough. We're we're so far down and isolated here. We're not European and they always look at Europeans. Uh the Americans get a bit of a look in. I think Pricey, having done what he's done, and Chucky having done what he's he's done, and even Grabbo uh before Pricey has made some of the teams start to look at Australia for that rally kind of side of things, but it is typically harder, and you've got to have someone who can put your name for it or say I know a guy who would come and you know you used to run Waterboy, they don't kind of do that anymore. But you know, come and at least test a bike and and do a bit of pre-running or something for them. Do you have an idea of how to get into that world?

SPEAKER_03 37:18

With where I'm at now with Honda, and that was the whole reason I signed with Honda, was because I was thinking future, like thing to me isn't my be-all end-all, like it's not where I want to retire. So with Honda, obviously, you look, they got one of the biggest rally programs out of all the teams, and for me, it's just um keep keep chipping away and working towards that. And Yuri's been really good at trying to put my name forward to the big bosses at HRC. And I guess we just gotta try and get a start and get over there and maybe do some of the the qualifying races for Dakar on on the Rally 2 program and try and get yourself noticed. And I'm fully fully understand that the way the sport is these days, you're probably gonna have to pay your way in as well, somewhat for that those sort of environments. So it all comes down to how much money you got behind you as well, unfortunately.

SPEAKER_01 38:14

Yeah, it does. It's tricky because like I'm thinking now when Pricey and Chucky started to secure their seats, it was before that but they had both won a six-day. Uh sorry, Pricey had uh Pricey had never won a six-day, Milner and and um Sanders had won six days, but that they'd bit they'd been in a six-day team that had been winning, so that people had kind of seen them on that international stage somewhere. However, yeah, when they got into it, um, you know, they were just kind of offered a ride that was pretty impressive straight up without really having any route nav experience, you know. We Australasian safaris had died long before Chucky was you know racing them regularly like Grabbo used to. So they kind of had to take a um a bit of a chance on um Chucky and even Pricey, I guess. Uh and that is the tricky thing, is that when you guys get that opportunity, it's like we're not gonna give you 10 goes, they're gonna give you a limit number of goes, and you've got to be like, Oh fuck, how do I even use this nav tower? How do I work my way around this? I've got you know, I can I'm there one week beforehand to ride this bike and figure it all out. Um, and look, if if anyone's gonna get you a seat somewhere, like you said, rally two, it's Yuriev Konsky. The guy's a magician with getting guy his guys overseas. We've seen that in the motocross and supercross space big time. Um have you ever looked at a rally bike, sat on one, used the little nav on the thumb to move the scroll the thing up the map up and down or anything?

SPEAKER_03 39:36

Uh, the closest I've come to a rally bike is staring at one on the screen on my phone. So um, yeah, I hope within the next sort of I've got like a a three or four-year plan of where I want to be. So I hope that with that is yeah, I'm getting close to DACA in the next couple years because I think with the rally side of things, you can sort of um extend your career a little bit more into your your later years. But I mean, I'm nearly 25, so although I'm still young, it's you know, you have a year of injury or or anything, and before you know it, you'll be 30 and you're getting to to the end of it.

SPEAKER_01 40:18

So yeah, you're right. I mean, like you said, you still got a a bit of time, I think, with Pricey and well, Pricey was later than Chucky, but even Chucky was mid to late 20s before he kind of broke into that scene, and then he he had injuries back to back to back, he just couldn't catch a break, you know, and and then finally he had a good run for like 12 months of just no injuries, nothing, and he just blitzed everyone one DACA. Um, so I think that's pretty important.

SPEAKER_03 40:41

Yeah, and then obviously you can't just expect to rock up to Dakar your first year and and win it, like just the experience involved. So it's probably once you do get to Dakar, it's probably a a two to a three year process to get yourself up into the the pointy end.

SPEAKER_01 40:55

You talked about a four or five year plan, mate. Can you run us through what that is roughly? Does it involve things like you know what, I need to go to Baja first and be seen there? Or does it it revive uh you know mean I want to go to Morocco and race Morocco because that seems to be a good one for everyone to see what's part of that four and five year plan?

SPEAKER_03 41:13

Yep, so definitely try and get to Baja a little bit, just the sports so dig over there and get the name out there a bit and just get some experience doing different types of racing and try and think bettering my results here in Australia with thinking Hatter, and and then yeah, just try and work out uh a rally race to try and even if I gotta go and pay my way to to get a start at one of them. And I think with DACA you gotta get 14 points, I think it is, to qualify for DACA. So try and start looking at those races that qualify you and get some points, and just just try and stay healthy and just I think next year would be a big year for me, just probably go all in on the racing side of things and try and ride more and see where we can go with it.

SPEAKER_01 42:06

Yeah, um, it is funny how DACAR does seem to extend your or rally racing extends your career. You can't keep doing the desert. I mean, while she's the exception, but you can't keep doing the desert stuff well into your 30s, but you can do the the rally stuff into your 30s. Um, even pricey proved that. And I guess working for you too is we've got all these new teams that are talking about doing rally. We've got a few of the Chinese mobs, you know, Cove want to go bigger. You've got Hero already doing some pretty big things, and then there's a mob called you may not even know them, but ZX Moto. Um a mob that are actually coming into Australia through a c uh importer called Urban Moto Imports, they import Royal Enfield, they import Raiju, which make 300 two-strokes and rally bikes. And I was actually down there uh today's Thursday, I was down in Melbourne on uh Monday, Tuesday testing their two-strokes and their rally bikes, and they took us into the factory and they actually had a 250cc motocross bike from ZX Moto, this mob. Um, it's out of China, and they you know started up for us, seemed like pretty decent kit. And they're like, Yep, you know, they're already doing really well in the world superbike space. They're gonna take on Moto uh MXGP in China this year, they're gonna race there, and they're also gonna have a full-blown team at next year's, so they tell us MXGP the whole thing, and then the plan is to develop that into a rally team. And the big thing is, yeah, they want it, they want a Dakar rally team, and they and they're gonna, and by the sounds of things, money is not a problem, so they that's the big you know hurdle for Dakar is they're gonna throw everything they can at it to win it. Um so you know, I it's kind of I look at it like we we had a glory period there where you had like Chucky and a teammate on Gas Gas, two guys on Huskies, two guys on Kados, you had a satellite KDM team with that Mason Klein guy who, young kid from America. You had Honda, you had Yamaha, you had Sherko, and then probably the last two or three years when KDM ran into some troubles financially, you saw some of those teams peel back because they probably figured we don't need to spend here because you know KDM aren't. But the cool thing is those other brands. Now starting to show a lot of interest. Um, we're also hearing that Ducaddy uh are a good chance of running a rally team in the next little while. Uh and and people are even starting to uh not that we've heard this solid uh solid at all, but starting to talk about um pushing triumph into something in that space as well. So it's kind of cool to think that, like, hey, at least like you said, in four or five years' time, I think I think the rally scene in terms of teams will have actually grown and there'd be opportunity to get on teams and give yourself you know the best chance. Um so that's man, that's that's kind of exciting. And it is like I was chat mical Norton before Fink, we did a story with him on his Ducaddy, and he um he talked about almost joining a one of the Chinese rally teams uh for this year because of stuff that he'd done last year, especially with some of what they'd sent him to overseas. So I think that's probably the right direction to go is to try and get yourself over to Baja. Are you doing Baja this year or next year? Have you I know there's an Aussie contingent going this year, there's quite a few Aussies going over on different kinds of teams. Are you doing anything with it this year?

SPEAKER_03 45:03

Yeah, so Honda Australia are actually sending us over. Um Brody, David Walsh, myself and Liam. We're heading over to do the 400 and the thousand, which is cool. So we'll head over early September for the 400, and we'll be back sort of mid to late September, and then we will go over again, I'd say late October for the thousand. So cool, which is exciting. Honda helping us out with some bikes over there, and then I believe that SLR will be helping us out with some pit stops and bit of logistics side of things. So I'm pretty keen to get over there and have another crack. I was fortunate enough last year that the hero racing team over there picked picked me up off after my think win and gave me a bit of a go, and it was a massive eye-opener experience and just been wanting to get back ever since.

SPEAKER_01 46:02

Any um hidden fridges and microwaves in hidden in the track in the dirt that everyone talks about? That I mean those days are long gone based on everywhere, but any any nasty surprises last year at Baja?

SPEAKER_03 46:13

It's pretty wild, honestly. Just I had to do a couple hours of night. I think I got on the bike about 3:30, 4 in the morning, and I was not gonna lie, shit scared because I'd had very little night experience, and uh the team I was riding for had the number one plate, and they threw me up against the man of Baja right now, that Tyler Lynn. So not racing in America before I had no idea on what pace to run, how I was gonna stack up, whether I was gonna get the first pit, and they tell me that he'd put 10 minutes into me. Or so I just wanted to survive the night, but that first bit of the night, like you I was riding along, and you got all the mad Baja fans sitting there with these massive campfires right next to the track, and they're sitting in their cars with their lights shining straight into your eyes, and and I actually come along, it was sort of probably 5:30 in the morning, come along this quite fast section, and I seen all these people waving, and I thought, oh, where there's people, there's normally carnage, but they were actually waving me away from the danger. One of the farmers or whatever it was had tipped like a load of dirt and rocks straight in the middle of this track overnight. So I was I did spot it and I was already on the brakes, but having these people there definitely helped. But yeah, as soon as I seen that, I thought, oh shit, yeah, the old stories are true.

SPEAKER_01 47:38

Yeah, yeah. So he deliberately did that. He thought, you know what, bugger him. I don't want to run him through here. You did you deliberately just dropped rubble there to kill someone?

SPEAKER_03 47:46

Yeah, it was definitely deliberate because two days before when I was pre-running that that that massive pile of dirt and rocks wasn't there, that's for sure.

SPEAKER_01 47:54

How similar is a Baja bike to a think bike? Not at all.

SPEAKER_03 47:59

Not at all, hey. I sort of just the I mean they're still pretty fast, but just you're trying to adapt to four or five different guys setups on one, and yeah, just you got the big dual lights on the front, and just sort of I was on one of those 450X's as well, which I'd never ridden before, and they're a big tractor, so just riding that different and short shifting it, and just a big, big heavy bike. So yeah, you just even just the riding as well. I've going over there, I thought, oh, it's gonna be pretty similar to Australia, but I've never seen so much rock in my life. And one minute you're on the coast right next to the ocean, and then 10 minutes later you're up in these mountains, second year, hopping over these rocks, and it's pretty, pretty wild how quick it changes.

SPEAKER_01 48:49

Is it scarier than Fink? I mean, we've heard of, like we said, big rocks hiding in the bulldust, whereas Fink is a little bit more predictable. You know, there's not going to be anything nasty, super nasty, hiding under the sand at Fink. Was it did it feel a little scarier, Baja?

SPEAKER_03 49:05

Yes and no. I think the worst thing about Baja is they don't shut any of the the tracks or the roads down. So you're on these fire trails, pretty well wedged, trying to scan ahead, looking for dust coming at you. There could be some farmer driving down towards you, because they don't care that there's a race on, they're just trying to get into town and do whatever they got to do. So you're scanning for that and the wildlife. I was lucky I didn't really see too much, but even one day out there pre-running, you're scanning for dust, thinking you'll see a car coming around the corner because it'll be throwing a fair bit of dust and come around this corner pretty fast. And here's a little Mexican on a little posty bike coming straight at me, and I've locked up, he's locked up, and I just thought like, how do you prepare for something like that? So yeah, um, you really got to have your wits about you down there and sort of settle into like a 80% pace and and just be smart. Yeah, you can't be riding Baja at 100%.

SPEAKER_01 50:07

Yeah. Um did you get did you get any good Mexican culture? Anything interesting happen away from the race while you're in Mexico? I mean, every time we speak to any of the guys who go over to Baja, it's not as eventful off the track as probably the public, general public would think when you hear about, you know, you went to Mexico and you're out in the bush. Anything interesting happened?

SPEAKER_03 50:27

Not really, no. I kept it, it was just me and dad, sort of, we were a couple of hours from the rest of the team, so just sort of wake up every day and go ride and come back in. I did have a uh taco stand experience that one of the the American boys were eating these tacos, and he goes, Oh, I probably wouldn't eat these, these don't taste right. And that was that was the day before the race, so instantly I felt sick, but I was lucky that didn't um didn't get crooked or anything from it. But yeah, so careful.

SPEAKER_01 51:00

It was in your head.

SPEAKER_03 51:02

It was in my head. I thought, oh, here we go, you're gonna be weighing out of my ass in a few hours or something like that.

SPEAKER_01 51:09

Um, so you're going over to Baja this year with Brody and David Walsh. Now they they're your um teammates from Fink, obviously. Um, you get along really well with with those, and Liam's coming as well, obviously, part of the furniture there too. You get along well with Brody and David.

SPEAKER_03 51:24

Yeah, this year was cool. Obviously, I've I've idolised David the last few years, sort of working my way up at Fink, and I've really got to know Brody well the last few years, and especially this year, and he's been really good to me and just a really good team manager. I don't know how he did it this year, trying to race and what he would have had to deal with running that team. And yeah, I mean, his ass was on the line too, he was on the chopping block, what like the money they put into that team. So if things didn't go to plan, he probably was the first one to get the finger pointed at him. So I think just dealing with all that and trying to race, he he did amazing. So but yeah, pretty, pretty cool story about like David. We were on the the start line on day one at Fink, and we had whole shot buttons, so he put his in, and the three of us were trying to get mine in, but I think it had like a rock or something in it, so we couldn't couldn't actually get my button down and locked in. So David just went, Oh, stuff at bras, we're teammates, I'll pull mine out. So he ended up pulling his whole shot button out.

SPEAKER_01 52:32

Oh, did he?

SPEAKER_03 52:33

Yeah, we we got down to think and he goes, Oh, you prick, like I should have left mine in. He goes, You left me for dead off the start, like, because I got the jump on him. So that was cool. Like, just sort of he said, Oh, we're teammates, we're in it together. So, and it was just nice taking off with him, knowing that I wasn't gonna do anything stupid to him, and I didn't have to worry about him cleaning me up in one of those corners. And we actually got out of the stadium, and I thought, oh, I've probably got a little dust gap on him now. We went over the railway tracks just as the you go through the gates out of the stadium and hit this right hand sweeper, absolutely wedge. And I've just taken like a little look behind me over my right shoulder, and here's David, like literally could have touched hands if he's that close, and it was like he was staring into my soul. I thought, this man is just next level, like no one else could do that. No, we go down the along straight after that corner, and I didn't realise he was so close. Still, I've sort of gone from the middle of the track over to the right to set up for a left-hander, and he was already on my right, and I didn't hear him, but he told me to think that he was yelling at me because I actually like we locked my rear wheel locked under his front fork guard, like he had rubber and all that on his front fork guard. So we pretty well come together there, and I just felt really guilty to think to think that um we I nearly put us both down, like I had no idea he was right there, but he was cool, he didn't care, but he reckons he was like yelling at me like screaming or something because I was coming over on him.

SPEAKER_01 54:11

Oh god, that's epic, eh? He's just such a he's a like such a likable guy, and you know, for someone who's had so much success out there, he's Australia's most successful desert racer or tide most successful desert racer. Man, that's that's cool to hear that, like you know, he's got you as a young teammate and he's he's like that with you.

SPEAKER_03 54:31

Yeah, oh, it was so surreal to me sitting on the start line and thinking like I'm sitting next to David Walsh and he's my teammate, and then getting a race with him. And there was a couple cool videos getting around of me and him going at it the first sort of 10-15 K's until he blew past me and left me for dead.

SPEAKER_01 54:50

When he when he passed you, did you could you feel it coming? Did you make a different line choice or you knew where he would be faster in a particular section corner?

SPEAKER_03 54:58

I knew he was going to get me somewhere in that first 60, and I was just trying to trying to stay relaxed and come out of this corner, and I sort of went to the inside to the whoops were a bit bigger on the outside, and he just went far outside fully wicked and blew past me, and that was it. Yeah, just hit a wall of dust, so I just sort of dropped back that 15-20 seconds out of the dust and just wanted to survive from there till we got to the 80 and then start putting the hammer down, but he sort of maintained the gap as well.

SPEAKER_01 55:29

Did he have a different uh gearing setup or same setup as you got as you? Did he have more top speed?

SPEAKER_03 55:37

No, not really. Like we were we were all running the same thing, they had slightly like a little bit different setup on the bike. I think that they were running longer swing arms, which I tried and tested, but I just stayed with the the stock swing arm and um but yeah, he just obviously just committed more out of that corner, and that's how he makes his time. Obviously, he just yeah, he's committed.

SPEAKER_01 56:01

Yeah. Um, okay, let's talk 2027 then, mate. Um conscious you've got to be up at 3:30. So let's talk 2027. Uh Honda deal is one-year deal. Um is Brody game enough to do it again next year with the Honda team. Do you know if there's gonna be support from Honda to go again in 27?

SPEAKER_03 56:21

I think they were happy with how everything went this year with the results and the bike sales. Like, they've had a lot of interest in the the Honda RXs, and they've just released those 50 think replicas as well, which is really cool. Yeah, I th I think that a couple of the team sponsors have committed to another two or three years as well. Um, so we will see a Honda team next year as far as what riders and how many there are, I'm not sure, but I'm sure that's all stuff that's getting worked out as we speak, and I'm hoping there's a position for me there again as well.

SPEAKER_01 56:56

Yeah, look, I'm sure there will be. Walshie has promised us this time around that he will not be back. We've heard that before. But if he's promised us he won't, so oh man, they'd be they'd be uh mad not to sign you. Um all right, mate. I think yeah, that's been really insightful. Kind of getting to know yeah, everything about kind of where you came from from the off-road side of things in the desert and what you got, you know, coming up, where you want to be with Rally. I think that's really cool. And I I see so many guys, like I said, Cal said the same thing, he would like to get an opportunity to race rally. Um you know, and I hope those teams overseas do look at Aussie riders like yourself and realize that the speed isn't the problem at all. You know, teach us to nav and and we're on, um you know, and hopefully we get an opportunity to even have a nav rally somehow back in Australia in the next five years, you know, before you make a commitment to go and chase something overseas as well.

SPEAKER_03 57:47

So you know, I think I hope so too. Yeah, I think the sport here in Australia is in a really healthy spot, and it's a shame that we don't have a desert series here because I look at the the desert scene and it's it's massive. I think it's far bigger than the off-road scene. And unfortunately, the the desert stuff doesn't sell bikes like the the average trail rider. It's like not every trail rider wants to come and do think, but we definitely have the numbers at FINC. So yeah, it'd be cool to get some sort of series going and even a a navigation race, like you said, to to give us Aussie riders that want to go to Dhaka a bit of a stepping stone, and hopefully these all these teams that are talking about going to Dhaka do go because as far as I know, all these all these riders and off-road guys, that's where everyone wants to go is DACA. So there's not going to be enough um spots on teams otherwise.

SPEAKER_01 58:41

Yeah. Um, it's funny you mentioned uh yeah, you know, like not having enough spots on teams, and also like the whole Aussie off-road guys wanting to go to DACA. I think you you're in the right space with the desert thing. I think going from desert to a Dakar is a lot easier than going from just off-roads uh across to DACA, especially you know, the Will Rupert's of the world who are incredibly fast in the bush. They obviously um but he didn't even do uh HADA this year. He wanted to focus purely on the bush stuff, so I think it's probably the right step. Um and yeah, like we said, there's lots of opportunities coming up with race teams as well, which is pretty exciting. Um all right, mate, thanks heaps for coming on. Uh we really appreciate talking about everything that's happened this year and that's coming up. And um, yeah, it'd be good to catch up maybe next year around think time as well again, and and we'll keep kind of keep an eye on that whole opportunity to get to race you know, a rally somewhere and uh if it eventuates for you.

SPEAKER_03 59:36

No, thanks for having me on. I've I've really enjoyed this and it's been good to chat.