The Table You Set: Community, Identity, and Building a Life That Fits with Khaled Nassra

Episode Summary

Khaled Nassra has never done things the conventional way. He spent his career in go-to-market leadership, founded Enki Consulting, and then eight months into his marriage, he and his wife Emma packed up and hit the world. Thirty cities across Europe and North America. No plan. Just the decision to step outside.

In this episode, Khaled and Kate dig into what that journey has actually taught him: about discipline, identity, community, and what it means to belong somewhere when home is still being figured out. Khaled shares his immigration story, the six-and-a-half-year wait that brought his family to Vancouver, and what it felt like to arrive in a new country and have to rebuild from scratch. He talks about the difference between setting a table for others and actually making sure everyone has a seat, the blind spots that even well-intentioned leaders carry, and what it looks like to run toward the things that scare you just a little. If you've ever felt like a newcomer, in a room, in a city, in your own life, this one is for you.

Key Takeaways

• Your roots aren't a place. They're the internal anchors you carry with you wherever you go.
• Discipline isn't about being hard on yourself. It's about checking in every day and asking: Am I still on my mission?
• Welcoming others requires more than an open door. Sometimes you have to go out and pull people in.
• What you see as a weakness, whether an accent, a non-linear career, or a life full of context switches, might be your greatest asset.
• Building community means being honest about who isn't at the table and asking why.

👉🏻Contact information for Khaled Nassra: https://www.linkedin.com/in/khalednassra/

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Transcript

SPEAKER_01 0:00

Welcome back to Coffee Talk. I'm your host, Kate Coffee Bacon, and this is the place where real conversations meet real people. Today's guest is someone who has built a career around empowering leaders to grow. He is a very experienced go-to-market leader and the founder of Inkey Consulting, and someone whose story threads together immigration, resilience, discipline, and what it truly means to belong somewhere. Today we're going to talk about where he's been, what he's seen, and what's challenged him, and maybe most importantly, where he'd want to plant roots if he had to choose tomorrow. Cal Nasra, welcome to Coffee Talk.

SPEAKER_00 0:42

Thank you so much for having me, Kate. I'm really excited for us to chat together, for me to share more of my story and hopefully uh to do for so many what has been done for me, which is help someone find a place and feel represented.

SPEAKER_01 0:56

Oh man, you know I love that. That's very much part of my why, which is to create spaces and conversations where people find um find belonging and they they see themselves in. So, you know, that resonates with me. Khaled, we have had the opportunity to work on lots of projects together. And I'm so thankful for the time that we get to spend together. And we've gotten to where we have to add a little bit of extra time to the meeting because we get on and have like just this really great and fun banter. So I'm sure this episode is going to deliver the same kind of the same kind of fun. So again, welcome. Thank you for spending your time with me today. And um let's get into it. Let's go.

SPEAKER_00 1:38

Absolutely.

SPEAKER_01 1:39

Whenever I join a call with you, I always say, Well, where in the world is Khaled today? Like every time I talk to you, you're in a different place. The background changes, but you are always so authentically you. And I have such a deep appreciation for that and such a deep respect for that. So let's talk about where in the world is Khaled. I feel like that could be its own podcast, Khaled. We should workshop that. You and Emma got married eight months ago and you took off. You just kept going. And every time I ask you, where in the world are you? What made you jump into that we'll call it live out of suitcase kind of life? And was there a plan or did that plan kind of find you along the way?

SPEAKER_00 2:26

You know, there wasn't a plan at all. I'll say that to start us off. There wasn't even a plan to travel. Honestly, we uh did not think that that was what we were gonna do. But I was feeling a bit of uh escapism, honestly. As you mentioned, I've been working on starting up my company for the past uh three years or so, and it's been great. It's been really busy, but at the same time, it's important to retain your own sense of self and not have it intermingle with work to a degree where that's your only identity. And so part of what I wanted to do is experience the world, be able to learn more about it, and eventually help make it better from the knowledge that I've gotten. So over the past now five months, we've been to I think we're at 30 different cities all over the world, mostly in Europe and North America. We are taking a pause, I think, uh, for a few months and then hitting the road again, just because it is a little hard uh working and living out of a suitcase. But I will say it's been incredibly enriching and important, especially around the themes that we'll talk about today, which are changing your context, changing the place where you feel belonging, and being able to find similarity with different people, different communities, and how we can ensure that the spaces that we're in are open to others who might benefit from them.

SPEAKER_01 3:51

So, I mean, we we could go so many places with this with this conversation right now. I see it going so many different places, but let me lean into kind of what you said a little bit. And you you said you wanted to learn and and to see different places. What are two big takeaways that you've gotten from from your travel and how are you applying that to the way that you are doing business today?

SPEAKER_00 4:14

Yeah, I I mean tremendously, honestly, even down to the name of the company, it's deeply connected to my own personal story. But I will say the two things I learned are first, one of the best ways to learn about any group of people or any person is to understand what they place value on. And that's a lesson we learned in sales very early on, right? Understand what the people you're trying to sell to are compensated on, what they care about, what are their priorities, and try to sell them as well. Which is interesting because when, for example, we were in Italy, one of the first things we noticed is in every city we went to, the value that they place upon art and just the like ceremony of things. So even we we first stopped in Rome and our hotel was like this little boutique hotel. They spent so much time setting up the breakfast area and making it pretty, which, at least for us in a North American context, I feel, we're so rushed. And you don't linger at restaurants, you pay and go and run away, and you then spend time like appreciating these little moments. Uh, but it was interesting to see how much value was placed upon that and trying to analyze why that is and how that gets woven into the fabric of the society. The other thing I would say is the importance of making an effort. And I will say that in in Spain, which we spent a month and a half in Spain, that was really valuable. I spent a lot of the time learning Spanish, and I'm I'm not gonna say my Spanish got anywhere near good enough in a month and a half. I I didn't know anything other than like the surveys of Portugal probably before then. But spending time learning and people appreciating that I'm trying to speak to them in Spanish was really relevant to business, I think, and shows how one of my favorite things actually I have a little copy of it, the seven habits of highly effective people. One of the habits is seek first to understand and to be understood. And I think that that's true, whether in business or travel or anything else. I will add a bonus thing you asked for too, but I think uh for personal aspects, discipline is really important and having an idea of not discipline as in like being harsh on yourself or anything like that, but reconnecting with yourself and thinking, am I on my mission? If so, let's recommit to it every day. If not, then what can I do to readjust? And that practice of just checking in internally every day and having that commitment to yourself is really important.

SPEAKER_01 6:48

How did the traveling that you've done help you settle into that lesson in a in a way that you couldn't have learned if if you'd set roots now?

SPEAKER_00 6:59

I think it's because it's so dysregulating to live out of a backpack for any amount of time, honestly, and losing a lot of your habits that you've built, losing the context that you've been in for so many years. It's something that kind of makes you uh seek that foundation internally. You mentioned at the beginning that my story is also one of immigration. So halfway through my life, we immigrated across the world, and I remember I was I was going into grade 11, which is pretty significant for a lot of people. I mean, you you formed your friendships at that point, right? And I was three days into being in Canada and I had to start summer school to catch up with people on Canadian history uh requirements, which I needed to graduate on time. And it was wild just seeing different educational contexts, different approaches to school, and kind of re-anchoring on myself and checking in on how do I stay disciplined, how do I stay on top of everything that I want to achieve was helpful then. It was really helpful when we were changing environments every single day. And it's really helpful when you're starting a company because as you and I talk about often, there's a million different directions you can go into. There's so many trends. We see AI everywhere now. We see people using different technologies for Microsoft in our field of work. And if you're not kind of like set in your path to a degree, it can be really easy to fall. Um, my mom used to always tell us keep your roots deep in the ground, but your branches really up high, which I think is a good way of explaining it. I mean, you anchor on the things that matter, but you're still interested in in exploring other things. You're just not swaying with every single thing that happens.

SPEAKER_01 8:44

Yeah. You know, you you said something a minute ago that made me recall this uh this quote that I saw. And it basically that it's uh a challenge to us to as you know, as Americans, frankly, to slow down and and make our lives romantic. And what it was saying is that, you know, light the candles when you're making dinner. Put on your favorite music when you're making dinner, slow down because we are in a rush. I mean, we are in again, you you said it, we talk about this so frequently. Everything is changing so quickly, and we feel this huge rush to keep up. I am a very firm believer, and I know you are as well, that relationships matter so much. And relationships don't happen through AI, they happen through conversations like this and by being real with each other and and authentic with each other. So I I am learning that lesson myself to enjoy, enjoy the nothing, enjoy the spaces where there's nothing to fill it, let go of my own agenda and just exhale and be still. So what a what an incredible lesson to learn and what a what an experience to have with with Emma, with your wife at the very beginning of you know of of your life together. What has been traveling like with with her? What has shown what has it shown you about each other that maybe staying in one place couldn't have couldn't have done?

SPEAKER_00 10:22

Well, you you know us both well at this point, and I think you know how crazy we are. We we do change things up a lot. And not only did we start traveling together, but we also started working together. She came on board with the company at the end of January, and I think that that has taught us a lot. We actually got a lot of advice from different people in our community, some freely warning us about working together, some uh commending us and saying that it's a great idea. And I think what was interesting and valuable is how much we learned about the way that we each need to live our lives independently, but also how we can live and thrive together. So, what I will say is no matter where we were, I mean, we've stayed in quad hotels where it was smaller than the room that I'm in, and we're trying to find our autonomy there, and we've stayed in amazing places that were like one place we stayed in in Florence was the castle owned by Michiavelli at some point, which was crazy. Um even there, we still had to find ourselves and and not be uh swayed away with everything else. So I think the kind of chaos of the experience allowed us to really figure out what was the thing that we placed the most value on, how we communicate with each other, how we continue to build our relationship. We're really fortunate to have been together for so long, uh, before getting married, before uh traveling and working together. And so I think we had a really strong foundation uh of understanding of how we each exist, but at the same time, you you continue to learn about each other, which is really cool. And I think that's true in personal relationships and in lifelong relationships like this, or in business or any kind of relationship that you're in. You just need to continuously learn, not make all the assumptions in the world and just kind of try to be two steps ahead of each other. Because I think that that's the biggest risk factor is if you try to anticipate what the other person's doing. So you're overcorrecting yourself on it, and then they're overcorrecting themselves, and you get into this vicious cycle where no one's truly being authentic to themselves or the other person.

SPEAKER_01 12:36

Yeah. Wow. I think uh that that is a that's a business principle, that's a personal, that's just a relationship principle across the board is are those real authentic conversations and dispelling the miscommunication. And even be like I I might be miscommunicating about our miscommunication. Like the layers can can go so deeply. I've I've really enjoyed, you know, kind of living through you over the last couple of months and seeing the different places that you've been. I've never asked you the question, you know, what are you learning right now? And I know you had just been inundated with so much over the last couple of months, but like actively right now, what are you learning? What are how do you see yourself changing?

SPEAKER_00 13:23

Yeah, I mean, one of the biggest things has been learning how to be myself. Again, honestly, I did throw everything into work for the past couple of years. And I think it's it's important to acknowledge. I remember when I first started the company, uh, I was doing my MBA at the same time again, because two things were not crazy enough. I wanted to do that.

SPEAKER_01 13:44

Let's just add something else in there. Yeah. I do it all the time. I just launched a new website. Like, how much more can I throw onto the plate?

SPEAKER_00 13:53

Exactly. Sometimes it's like if if I throw another piece and maybe everything will settle together. But I remember when I first started my MBA program, it was interesting because a lot of people would ask me, do you recommend to that we start a company? And my answer at the beginning was always yes, it's so easy. I think I didn't realize that it does take a special blend of being crazy and uh dedicated, I guess, but definitely a little crazy to have such optimism that everything will work out that you throw yourself into it without any previous knowledge on whether it will or not. And in the process, I didn't realize I did lose track of health. I lost track of like my fitness and commitment to fitness. I didn't really stay on top of my cultural enrichment, my uh interpersonal enrichment with friends and things like that. And so that was not great because it's not what I want to build. It might be something that other people want, and that's totally okay for me. I kind of always look at how am I doing personally, how am I doing interpersonally, culturally, uh physically, and like health-wise, and then financially and long-term prospects. And so I felt that I was neglecting too many of the five pillars that I anchor on. And so through traveling, I was able to detach from different contexts. You know, it's kind of like an allergy test. You can test out, okay, we're in Palma, we're really focusing on recreation and being on the beach every single day. I think I we had a couple of calls and I would show you the view from our room. We had an amazing view of the Mediterranean for the two weeks we were there, but we didn't have access to a strong community. It's mostly retired Germans and so not a lot of people that we could talk to and feel a lot of commonality with. While we went to like other places like Madrid, where it was a lot of hustle and bustle and great young community that we could connect with, but it also felt like we didn't have a place to really practice fitness and things like that. So, like small examples and small test results, but I think for me now, what has been so important is understanding how do I find that balance while also uh focusing so much on something that I'm interested in.

SPEAKER_01 16:08

Yeah. And if I could go back to your mom's analogy of those roots, I think, you know, when when I think of roots, I think about my four walls, but your roots are who you are. It's it is what grounds you. You you said that, those those five pillars, those things that that go into making you who you are, that those are your roots. And that that's a journey that that I'm on as well is is what what are my roots? What are what is my why? What is my my my guiding light? You know, all of these things that that make you who you are. And then to your point, when those are solid, when you are rooted, when you are grounded, you can be anywhere in the world because that that foundation is is there and it's solid. We we grew up, I grew up anyway, um, you know, with this pressure. You know, you grow up, you get married, you have kids, you have a job, you you settle down, you have roots. But this is maybe part of a bigger question is what truly are our roots? And I I think it's the the things that you mentioned. It's it's those five pillars that that you call it of making of making you who you are. When I knew that you were coming on Coffee Talk, I was, you know, thinking about all the questions I wanted to ask you. And again, working with you so closely over the last, you know, six, eight months. I I know that you and I are both really big community builders. And you you said something a minute ago that that triggered this question for me. We're the kind of people that we are we are table setters. So when people come in, like they're they have a place, they have a place to sit. So what does it feel like when you are always the one that is arriving? You're arriving without a set table. Every place is new, your uh every morning is new. What does community look like on that side of it?

SPEAKER_00 18:06

It's uh it's really interesting, and I think it's something that I learned early on. And I will say it's a little dangerous. So I grew up, my family was like three or four different beliefs in one family, which was interesting. And then um, from all over the Mediterranean and everywhere I went, I kind of was fitting in some layer, but not every layer. And so slowly, I think, as a coping mechanism growing up, I learned to be a bit of a chameleon where I showed different parts of myself in different groups, depending on which family we were visiting. And so as a table setter, I was kind of setting it up in a way that I thought these other people would enjoy.

SPEAKER_01 18:45

Well, yeah.

SPEAKER_00 18:45

I think what's really important and part of my experience growing up, part of my experience traveling, being in a different country and like immigrating and being home now in Canada, I think I've learned how to be myself and bring my own sense of self to whatever community I'm setting up or whatever environment I'm setting up. When I've led teams from uh one-person teams, like one person other than me, all the way to teams of 120. I've always had a sense of what I want to show and how I can help others feel represented or welcomed enough to bring them their own selves. And I'll I'll give you a bit of an example of why that's so important and the element of intersectionality, why that's important as well. So, one of my first hires was a young woman who was Pakistani-Canadian, and she had uh moved from Toronto to Vancouver. She was starting up in a new environment, and she was coming to Directions, one of the conferences that you and I go to with me. I was really excited because it was one of the launch events for I think it used to be called Women in Dynamics at the time. And the panel was great, but unfortunately uh was very homogenous. It was all middle-aged American women. And so that's that's great that there's uh female representation, especially in a community that is very male dominated. But the team member I was with at, hey, like I see that your panel is very homogenous. What do you think of opening it up to other people, like maybe women of color? And the answer she got was, we don't have time to grow this to third world countries just yet, which was an absurd response to me, because it was in an environment where someone seemingly wanted to set the table for others, but were only setting it up for themselves and then closing the door behind them. And so that experience really showed me how important it is to consider it that, like, even though I have my own struggles, even though I want to set up an environment that I would want, I should also be cognizant of who I'm setting it up for. And at the same time, even though I'm setting it up for someone else, I shouldn't lose my sense of self and become a total chameleon that doesn't have an anchor. And so we go back to that theme where you have a balance of thinking outwardly and thinking of who you're serving, but also thinking internally and having yourself as one of those stakeholders.

SPEAKER_01 21:14

Yeah. Wow, that is um that one's landing really hard with me right now as a as a huge builder in the women in tech community. And and what I what my vision for that is, that is something that that was a mentor moment for me, Khaled. Thank you. Um for me to be aware of that and you know, some of the the issues that I I've had in the past at at some of these panels with misrepresentation. And if we're building these communities where people can feel seen and heard that extends beyond the stories we're telling, that that is an inclusive environment and taking that with me.

SPEAKER_00 21:54

You know, it's hard to keep it in mind. I mean, we were just in Toronto for the regional event. And actually my wife Emma called me out because I was one of the people responsible for the session selection for one of the tracks. And I do always select sessions just based on merit and based on what value I think they will drive.

SPEAKER_01 22:16

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 22:17

And her call out was there wasn't a single session led by a woman in the entire day, which is a problem. I think it's a problem that we resolve in different ways, whether we empower women to submit sessions, or we ensure that there's enough investment in educating different people, or we are cognizant to select people. I'm not trying to say that we do uh tokenized uh session selection. That's never what I would advocate for. I think we can go back to the root cause, but that's important because we are often uh we have a blind side to the thing, a blind spot, pardon, for the things that we don't experience ourselves. And so thinking outwardly is important. And it and it's a practice that again requires discipline. We uh we have to do it every single day. It's not something that anyone really will have innately because as humans, we have shortcuts. That's the only way we can stay sane. And so we're going to establish biases, we're going to go back to what's familiar, we're probably gonna pick what looks like us. And I've struggled with that when building teams, I've struggled with that when clearly when selecting sessions. It's something that is important for us to recognize, acknowledge, and think about how do I address the root cause, whether it is by talking about it and encouraging others to be a part of the community or considering am I making it open enough for people? Because I often hear from people, oh, I don't think I have anything to say. Why would I submit a session? And then they give me a topic that is incredible and I would love for them to present, but they just haven't felt empowered enough to bring their topic forward.

SPEAKER_01 23:52

Yeah. And I I think you landed on it. I think it's that education and that empowerment just for for women to feel like they have a place and we're working on it, right? It it it is an ongoing conversation, it is an ongoing uh creation of of community and and belonging where women know that their stories are valid and and their their education is valid and and they can confidently step forward and and and speak and and teach. And I Khaled, I'll be honest, I I was at the event with you, I I didn't notice. And usually I notice things like that. And I didn't notice. Um I'm having so many really incredible conversations with women about the spaces that they're stepping into. So I feel I feel empowered in our community, especially that a change is coming in that because of the conversations I'm having, if if that makes sense. Like I I see the change coming. So I I didn't notice it. Bravo to Emma for noticing. Um, so we've talked all about you traveling. Um, that is such a huge thread in, you know, I call it the becoming of becoming who we are created to be. That's such a huge thread and been so influential. But traveling the world by choice feels a little bit different than leaving a place that you know because you had to or because a choice was made to leave. And I think those two things live in a person very differently. You can confirm or deny that. That's just my my thought on that. So I want to understand how those live in you. Where does your immigration story start?

SPEAKER_00 25:38

Well, I think well before I was born. So my my family is originally from Jaffa. And uh that that's a place that uh has been uh, you know, fought over for years and years. And I think uh what is relevant to us at least is is my own grandmother's displacement in in the 40s. So having to leave your city like at threat of guns and in in a in a war-torn situation is obviously never by choice and never something that's easy, but still she persevered and led the family into having a new home and being able to establish it. And and again, once more, when she was an an older adult, she was displaced again and was able to form a home somewhere else. And so, come to the side of me being born and and where we were, at a certain point, it started feeling like it was no longer viable to live in Jerusalem and we did have to leave. And so my family decided to immigrate. It actually took us six and a half years to get any response back from Canada. Uh, and I will say that is an interesting point because I've had so many friends who are immigrants in Canada. You know, we're a big immigrant community and everyone has had their own experience. But to me, those six and a half years showed how perseverant my mom was in getting us to a different place, trying to find us a home that we could build with kind of a blank slate. Due to like government changes in Canada, we had a couple of different parties in power. Our application actually took a lot longer than average, and that's why it was uh six years until we heard anything at all. And then the second we heard back, it was like mid-September, and my mom said, This is probably gonna be your last year in the school. So, you know, get ready. Very interesting. I was building a community back then. I was working with Save the Children, I was traveling all over the place, uh, representing my community and helping other communities. One of my favorite experiences was going to Romania and talking about peace building as an instrument that children had and how children can be an instrument of peace, which was really interesting. But then arriving in Canada, like I mentioned, it was a bit of a context change, but it was important because it dispelled a lot of the stereotypes I had. You know, we we get a lot of our learnings about the world overall from video games, from movies, from TV shows. And seeing how it really was was very interesting, even if it was at times dysregulating, because it taught me again that you can't make assumptions about anyone. And what was important about arriving in Vancouver specifically is I think Vancouver is very in touch with our indigenous uh heritage and our status as settlers. And so everyone in Vancouver knows the three nations that mainly had the land that and stewarded the land that we live on now and are aware of their learnings and teachings, are aware of all the work that they've put in to sustain the land. And so for us to arrive here and be welcomed on this land now in in better conditions than before, I think it's important to understand what context are you arriving in. Uh the change in your status and your responsibility. And so for me, it was a lot of like um relearning and unlearning, I think, uh immigrating to Canada, of course, like changing context from feeling the one, feeling like the one who is being displaced to honestly being a part of displacing a people now and understanding their responsibility for making sure that there continues to be a place for truth and reconciliation, and there continues to be a place for retaining and amplifying indigenous voices and learning from all their experience from time immemorial. So all of these things have been really important parts of my immigration story that I uh deeply cherish, but have also formed who I am today.

SPEAKER_01 29:31

Was there someone along the way that welcomed you when you needed it?

SPEAKER_00 29:37

Yes.

SPEAKER_01 29:38

Yes, yeah.

SPEAKER_00 29:39

So I I will actually highlight one person who did it very directly and one person who did it indirectly, and I don't think he even knows he did it. So right away I will call out my psychology teacher, uh, Mr. Jim Jans, who uh was phenomenal at being a welcoming presence, who understood how important it is to make all of his students feel safe, and um had just, you know, a very stereotypically Canadian sense to him. You know, this guy was obsessed with the Irish literature and poetry, could not stop talking about the Canucks or the Vancouver Giants, which is our minor league team. You know, like if you're a fan of a minor league team, you know you're a hockey nut. And he uh he really made sure everyone felt welcome. And in in his jokes, in his just offside communication to us, in checking in and asking, hey, are you doing okay? Do you understand everything going on? Stuff like that. I think him taking initiative was really important because what a lot of managers uh to switch to business context misunderstand is you can have an open door policy. You can always say, My door's open if you guys want to come in and check in or ask questions. And that's helpful, but you also have to understand that there are glass ceilings and barriers that you might not see, and you have to go out and pull people in sometimes, and you do have to be more of an activist, like uh enabler, I guess. The second person I'll mention is uh Lack Chahal, who was my uh CEO at Binary Stream. And uh Lack and I have very different approaches to business. We're still friends. I I still chat with him, and uh I think one thing that was really helpful is my previous experience before Binary Stream was at SAP, where almost everyone in management was German. My team was largely French, uh, which is interesting. And I kind of sat in the Vancouver uh office alone. Everyone else in my office space worked on the Hybris team, which is e-commerce for SAP. I was the only one who worked on the ERP side. And so I didn't feel that strong of a sense of representation. But then coming into Binary Stream and working there and seeing it run by uh an immigrant, by a person of color, by a person who really was self-made. And last story is really inspirational from his time in England all the way to Vancouver. Um, that helped me see how the world can be and how you can take up your space in the world and change it. And I think there's a lot of people in our community uh who have done so, from the folks who worked at Microsoft in Lebanon in the 90s who helped create the way that Word, the application processes the Arabic language and are now senior members in the community like Diana Ashek, uh, all the way to people like Lack, people like I'll call out uh Jay Malik from EngineCloud, who's now retired, and great for him. A lot of folks like that, and even we tatuka from UFC, I think have really interesting stories of being self-made leaders. You recognize that I only called out three men, so maybe that's again my own bias, but it's it's the people you look at and and you've yield a sense of the leisure.

SPEAKER_01 32:48

Yeah. So those are some pretty uh influential names. And you know, it it's always I've I've had this conversation with other people and I've I've asked, like, who were the people that that were your your warm emotional hugs, if you will, or you know, who who who were the ones setting the table for you. And so many people have a a teacher. So many, because it goes back to your very formative years and your youth. I I have a couple of teachers. I mean, I um it I want to give a nod to to the educators out there that you're making a difference and you're doing good work, and this is a great example of that. So you mentioned again some names that that were just very influential and and helpful to you. How are you carrying that forward? How do those influence and shape the way you're showing up for other people right now?

SPEAKER_00 33:40

Yeah, I I think it's an important question to always check up on yourself that you're giving back and not just in a sense of like obligation, but also because it helps perpetuate this really great thing that you've benefited from and will come back to benefit you. And so one of the things I do is that, you know, I I had started Youngin Dynamics a few years ago with Matt Batterby and and a few others. And I think that was a great experience. It helped, especially Microsoft internally, start thinking more about some of the programs that they have now, whether it's uh like BC upskilling elements or having a conversation about needing a space for youth. I was really uh heartened to see uh new people starting up and a new edition of this program. And and that kind of feels great to see the tradition of starting something for young people continue. But I think also in the way that I experience mentorship, whether mentoring the people that I mentor and working with them or empowering my clients, you know, a big part of what I do day to day, um, I joke, is not business. Honestly, a lot of the conversations I have with my clients are not around business, they're more around helping them feel empowered, helping them just have a sounding board in a sense, and not coming in with a judgmental or prejudiced point of view, but instead allowing them to speak their mind, let me know what they're thinking, and giving them an honest uh review. And if they need a place to kind of experiment or workshop ideas, uh having the place for that. In my hiring practices, I think I definitely have room for improvement. And this is something I've been learning now as we grow ankey. In past teams, I've really hired against my weaknesses, and I think that's a good thing, especially as you're starting up as a leader, is to recognize what weaknesses you have and hire people who help fill those weaknesses. But as a leader, it's also important to grow and not always only give opportunities to people who fit your mold. Uh, so I'll give you an example. Early on, I was very busy, and so I had to focus on big picture. You know, you don't have a lot of time to project manage every single thing, and so I tended to hire people who would understand right away what I meant when I said something. Um, I could speak to them in different languages and explain what I meant, and uh they could translate it to project management. And that has led me to some amazing hires like uh success stories like Bijan Hirani, who's now a leader on his own right in the channel. Um, but at the same time, I recognized that it prevented me from hiring people who I should have hired, but didn't fit that kind of like prototypical mold in my head. Even though they had all the merit, maybe would have been a great addition for the team. They weren't a great addition to my personality. So one thing that I'm working on is being a bit more welcoming and being a bit more open to having everyone on my team, not just people who fit my kind of ideal. And I know that sounds weird because you do want to hire people who are like perfect for you, but I don't want to do it just because of my own inadequacy. I I want to continue improving and optimizing myself and then give more room for other people.

SPEAKER_01 36:52

That's such an interesting point of view. And that that's a leadership journey, right? That that is um where you were when you started your business and the things that you've learned and and where you are now, and that is a testament to to where you are and and where you're going. And we are all on a journey, and we have these things that are put in front of us. You have spoken to several of them while while we've been talking that the things that you've learned from your travels, the different perspectives that you've gotten, and those things all influence you. I commend, I commend you for that. I have I have an interesting question. And you might not have an answer. If you had to settle tomorrow, what where would it be?

SPEAKER_00 37:42

Without a doubt, Vancouver.

SPEAKER_01 37:44

Vancouver. Oh wow, you really do love Vancouver.

SPEAKER_00 37:47

I do love Vancouver. I I always say I'm like the Vancouver tourism advisor number one. I love the city. I'm I'm in Vancouver right now. Um, we're actually looking at our next place later today. Um, so we'll be here for at least a couple of months uh further. But I I love it here, not just because of the diversity and not just because of the continuous teaching that we get from indigenous people here, not just because of the people, but also the nature, which you can't get anywhere else. Uh, I mentioned to you that I'm looking forward to continuing my like holistic journey. And and I have a couple of dreams that are maybe silly, but Vancouver does uh permit me to do them. I want to learn how to sail. That's something that I've always wanted to do. I've lived by the water for now 15 years in Vancouver, right on the coast, and I love looking at the sailboats, but I think I'm ready to be on one.

SPEAKER_01 38:45

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 38:46

And and really pushed through on one. We were actually on one in Barcelona and it was like at a 45-degree angle, and kind of struggled with that. So we'll see how successful I'm gonna be with sailing. Uh, but the other thing is uh flying propeller planes and bush piloting. Uh so we'll see how that goes. But definitely something I'm interested in doing in northern BC. So things that are not work-related, things that are not related to like anything that we usually talk about, but part of me building my own, I guess, authentic self, like just pursuing these crazy dreams that I have in a sense. So Vancouver easily, time and time again.

SPEAKER_01 39:24

Wow. What a testament to Vancouver. Okay, I need to visit you. I need to come to Vancouver, clearly. Yeah, I uh I think you'll know when it's time to to do those things. And all all of those things that you mentioned are kind of stay-in-one place journeys, right? Like it's unl unless you get a sailboat and you're sailing around the world, that's a different story. But those are those are stay-still activities. It's it's really difficult to travel and and eat well. And when you were saying that you kind of lost track of of your, you know, your your physical uh priorities, even the the work travel that that I do, the way that I eat goes out the way. It's impossible. You're at the mercy of whatever's being served, late nights, early mornings. Uh, and when you're traveling, time changes and and trying you with balancing work and and the play, it it's hard to to keep that balance and and that stability in the travel. But it sounds like you've uh traded those things for some really incredible lessons that are transformative. I love to ask this question. Um, if there's anyone working through a transformation in their own life, whether that be their personal life, their professional life, what's one thing you have learned that you wish someone had told you so much sooner?

SPEAKER_00 40:45

For sure. Look at your weaknesses as futures, not bugs. What you perceive to be weaknesses, at least I will say. So obviously, like as a person who immigrated to Canada, I I had a pretty noticeable accent early on. I think I I still do, but it it kind of felt like something to not appreciate initially. And then discovering how important it was that I can speak so many different languages was an important revelation. Things like that that make you your unique self and parts of your experience, whether they are scars or whether they are memories or anything else, trying to see how they can serve you and how they make you your own unique blend is really important. I will have to shout out Joe Krugliano here because he was one of the first people actually to, along with Diana, who I mentioned earlier, to both mentor me on this element of understanding that I'm a person who was a product manager, didn't continue on with it, uh started developing and writing code, didn't continue on with it, started selling, changed to marketing, started project management, didn't stay with it. Understanding that all of these experiences don't make you any less, but instead give you an understanding of everyone else around you. That was important. Understanding that you having multiple contexts in your life and living in so many different places doesn't make you less anchored in any one place, but gives you an openness to understand others. That was really important. So for anyone else who has kind of a similar experience where there are unique things about your life that you tend to see as weaknesses, uh just try a paradigm shift and try to see them as strengths.

SPEAKER_01 42:24

Wow. That's really good, Khaled. Again, thank you for coming on Coffee Talk. This conversation gave me a couple of mentor moments over the last hour. And um, it's a lot to sit with, but all in the best ways. And I know it will be for our listeners as well. So many big takeaways from me. I think right now what like feels very warm to me is the thread between your personal journey and what it means to welcome others. And I really love that you said you don't do it out of obligation, but more of a, this was transformative for me. And how can I create that for someone else? But again, thank you. Really, really great conversation. I always walk away from our conversations better than you found me. So um ongoing appreciation and respect for you. For everyone tuning in, you can find Khaled on LinkedIn. I'll add a link in the show notes there. Khaled, I hope to see you in person. I hope we share a zip code in the same air again very soon. For everyone else, we'll see you next time on Coffee Talk.

SPEAKER_00 43:31

Thank you so much, everyone. And thank you, Kate. Uh, because honestly, what you're doing here is welcoming everyone. So uh thank you so much for trying.

SPEAKER_01 43:39

Thank you for joining us today on Coffee Talk. A special thanks to my guests for sharing their story and to you, the listener, for being a part of this conversation. If you enjoyed today's episode, be sure to subscribe so you never miss a Monday morning chat. Until next time, I'm Kate Coffee Bacon, and this has been Coffee Talk.