People First: Resilience, Authenticity, and the Art of the Frenemy ~ with Danielle McNamee

In this episode of Coffey Talk, Kate sits down with Danielle McNamee, who leads the ERP Partner Channel at Versapay. Danielle shares openly about navigating life's hardest seasons, including her experience with infertility and IVF, and how those experiences deepened her empathy, reshaped her leadership, and changed the way she shows up for the people around her. They dig into the frenemy dynamic in the Microsoft partner ecosystem, what it really means to lead with authenticity, and why vulnerability is not a weakness, it is the thing that makes trust possible. If you have ever felt like you were carrying more than you could let on, this one is for you.

TAKEAWAYS

• The hard seasons you go through do not just shape you personally. They make you a more empathetic, more effective leader.
• Empathy is not a soft skill. It is a strategy that builds the kind of trust that drives real results in partnerships.
• The frenemy dynamic is real in the Microsoft ecosystem, and the people who navigate it best lead with an abundance mindset and genuine relationship.
• Vulnerability creates safety. When you share your story, you give other people permission to share theirs.
• You cannot do it all alone. Building the right support system is not optional, it is the whole game.

👉🏻Contact information for Danielle McNamee

LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/danielle-mcnamee/

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Transcript

SPEAKER_00 0:00

Welcome back to Coffee Talk, where we share the real stories that shape who we are. Today's guest is someone I have the privilege of calling both a colleague and a friend. She's built a career around partnerships and relationships, helping organizations collaborate, grow, and figure out how to work better together. But what drew me into this conversation is the way that she shows up. Fully in work, in leadership, in the hard seasons of life. In this episode, we talk about the way that struggle can reshape empathy, about what it means to lead a team when you're also quietly carrying something heavy. We talk about frenemies, about building bigger tables instead of fighting for seats, and about what motherhood teaches you that no leadership book ever will. She's one of those people that you leave a conversation with and you just feel better, more grounded, more honest about where you actually are. I'm so glad she's here.

SPEAKER_01 1:02

Danielle McNamy, welcome to Coffee Talk. Thank you so much for having me, Kate. I am so excited to be here. This I think has been a long time coming, so I'm I'm thrilled. Thank you so much.

SPEAKER_00 1:13

It has been a long time coming, and every conversation that we have is always, I mean, it you want to talk about authenticity. Um we're gonna talk about so many things in this episode, but you are uh you're the reigning queen of that. Before we talk about partnerships and leadership, I'd love for the listeners to know the person behind the title. So tell us a little bit about Danielle and who you are today.

SPEAKER_01 1:40

Sure. So hi everybody. I am Danielle McNamy. I lead the ERP channel partnerships team here at VersaPay. I spend most of my time building and scaling partnerships across ecosystems, including Microsoft, Netsuite, and Sage. And at the highest level, you know, my world, my world is all about helping companies work better together. My kids often ask me, you know, mommy, what do you do all the time? You're always on the road and meeting a bunch of new people. And I tell them I'm making friends. I am constantly meeting people and making friends, and ironically, also making frenemies, which, you know, I think we're gonna dive into a bit deeper here. Kate and I are the perfect example where, you know, we are certainly bringing our companies together, but even in a competing type of an environment where, you know, we got to figure out how to do business together. So it's super exciting. And I would say beyond the title, you know, a lot of my focus is really just on people, um, you know, building trust, creating alignment, and just figuring out how to drive outcomes through relationships, not just strategy. That's something that, especially over the last several years, which I, you know, I'm very excited and a little bit feeling a little vulnerable to kind of dive into it. But there's been some harder seasons in life that I've experienced that have really kind of shown, you know, the intersection of where people and personal lives kind of go on that path when it comes to also expanding how you show up as a leader. And so, as you've mentioned, Nerdi Kate, you know, leading with empathy and resiliency and authenticity, all of that isn't just personal traits. It really does show up on, you know, how we lead and how we drive results. So it's a little bit about me. Excited to dive in and be here. All right.

SPEAKER_00 3:19

Thank you. One of the things that has stood out to me in my prep for our conversation is your belief in showing up fully as yourself. You talk a lot about authenticity. You just said the words, authenticity, trust, resilience, and how some of our hardest experiences shape the leader that we become. Can you tell us a little bit more about that journey?

SPEAKER_01 3:44

Yeah. And so I think it's interesting, you know, looking, I think when you look at someone's career or, you know, look at their journey on paper, it can look like a pretty, you know, parallel, straight line, like, oh, okay, this they jumped from partnerships, they've expanded their career, they became a leader, et cetera, et cetera. But I think for me, it definitely doesn't feel like a straight line. There have been quite a few parallel paths that I've experienced while building my career that has shaped who I've become as, you know, how I show up at work. And something that, you know, is very personal, but something that has made me a better person in general. I was, you know, going through a really difficult season and one of those seasons being when I was becoming a mom. And, you know, for me, I wanted nothing more to have a really exciting career, but also have the life of growing my family and being a mom. And unfortunately for me, it wasn't an easy path. And so through that, you know, I've had to experience infertility. I went through IVF. And, you know, these are those types of journeys that some people share openly and many people don't. And it can feel very lonely. And it's also kind of the expectation that you still got to show up at work and you still gotta put on your hat and do your best. And, you know, going through these difficult moments and years really of my life just showed me how much someone can be going through in kind of this, you know, separate secret area of their life. And also just shows, you know, you gotta be empathetic. You gotta understand that people might be carrying more than they let on and to show up with that kind of more of an open heart tenderness that transparently I didn't always have when, you know, let's thinking back as a leader. I think it's definitely helped me evolve as to how I show up and and open up myself and build that trust with other folks in the ecosystem.

SPEAKER_00 5:41

Wow, Danielle, thank you for sharing that. Um, I definitely hear that the empathy in your story, it seems that experience changed not only how you saw yourself, but also how you actively connect with other people. What did that season teach you about yourself?

SPEAKER_01 6:03

I think so. Before I had gone through uh infertility, before I had gone through IVF, I was a, I still am, a type A, you know, I like to be in control, let's put it that way. Yeah, I think there are many women that I know in this ecosystem that are successful and driven. And, you know, these are the traits we have. And unfortunately, you know, this season of life, there was so much uncertainty. There was so much moment, so many moments where I was not in control. And that was extremely difficult for me. And it really kind of helped me understand that there are going to be moments in time, whether it be per personal, professional, that you can't control. So how are you gonna overcome? And how are you gonna get through these difficult days and challenges? And it really helped me kind of, you know, figure out other ways and other paths to, you know, have that kind of control over my central nervous system, which seems silly, but it's it really it impacts every part of your life. And um, the uncertainty, I think, just taught me that sometimes you've got to just, you know, let it go, believe that things are just gonna work out. And even if it is the hardest, and it was for me personally the hardest journey I've ever had to go through, you will get through it. And so going through this difficult path now I feel stronger. I feel as though, you know, I can do hard things, I've done hard things, and other people can do hard things. So it's a really it was horrible when I went through it, but I'm grateful that I can now share, you know, some of those pearls of wisdom that hopefully will help others that have been going through or have gone through, you know, the journey that I entailed.

SPEAKER_00 7:44

Looking back where you are now, looking back on that season of life, how do you see that experience showing up in who you are as a leader today?

SPEAKER_01 7:54

Yeah, I I think about it often. Um, and I remember very vivid moment in my career back, I it was right when I had first transitioned out of educational sales into partnerships. And I was leading a team, uh, and this was right before COVID. So let's say like 2019, it was before I had kids, and we were still in an office, and I had one of my team members who had a a daughter, and she would come in a little bit early to the office, and then she would leave every day at five o'clock on the dot. And I used to always kind of think, oh, maybe she should stay like an extra 30 minutes. Like, we really got to get this project done. And I used to always have this mindset of like, she should really, you know, give it a little bit more time, put in the extra effort. And then I went through my journey of infertility. I had my own kids. I started to really reflect on that specific moment. And it really made me like reflect to be like, wow, I really wasn't being fair. And now that I'm a mother myself, I would have done the exact same thing because your kids become your top priority and you got to do whatever you got to do. And if that means you're leaving it five on the dot to get your child from childcare, that's what you're doing. And she always, you know, showed up in other ways. And it just really made me just kind of reflect to be like, you gotta be more empathetic, Danielle. Like, not everybody, just because they're not at the standard or the expectation that you've created in your head, everybody has a million and one other things going on in their lives. And especially when you become a parent, so much shifts that it's just one of those reflection points that I'm always like, wow, I really wish I was kinder to, you know, setting those expectations of my team. Um, and now that I am a parent, now that I've gone through the journey that I have, I am so much more empathetic. Like whatever you need to do, you go do that for yourself or your family. As long, again, the job will get done. That is your, that's the expectation. But however, whatever parameters that it entails, that's fine. But that's that's one of those moments that really stands out to me of how much my mindset has shifted since becoming a parent and going through this experience myself.

SPEAKER_00 9:59

Yeah, I I really love that you gave an example of of how empathy is showing up for you. We can throw that word around and say, you know, I've learned empathy, but to say, you know, this is a tangible example of this is who I was and this is who I am now gives that empathy, um, gives it legs. Um, it shows it in action and and the change that that happened in you. I do think that being a mother, we learn um different perspectives. We learn um, and also we have these little people and we see life through their eyes and as they grow and change. And I I mean, I would say that the same goes for being a mentor, being a mentor of a young professional and and seeing the things that that they're going through, it it does help us to to take a step back because we grow in our career and it's gradual, right? You grow from being a young professional and then and you grow and you learn that sometimes we forget who we were. And just that reminder, whether that be through our children, through our mentor relationships. And I think it's so important. That's why I'm such an advocate for mentorship, because you've got to see life. These these kids are our young professionals, are living a totally different professional life than we did. And it's so important to to take on that perspective. And like I said, I'm really happy to hear an a tangible example of of what changed you and and how you were changed. You work in partnerships, which can be very complicated relationships. These are companies collaborating one day and competing the next. Danielle, I have never, I'm not a, I don't have a competitive spirit anyway, but I've never felt a competitive spirit when we've been together. I've felt nothing but camaraderie and collaboration and and opportunities, opportunities for how we can work together. There's nothing that I would want more than for us to collaborate with an end user to make their journey better. But yeah, it some of these relationships can be complicated. You used the word frenemies a minute ago, and I feel like we need t we need t-shirts made. They made it that have um like a pretty font. Uh frenemy one, frenemy two, like thing one, thing two. Yeah. You use frenemies to describe some of the partner relationships that you're navigating. And I really love that. It makes it a softer relationship. Uh, walk me through what that looks like in a real conversation or a real deal.

SPEAKER_01 12:40

Yeah, I it's it's a phrase that I've loved for many, many years, actually, back even to the Sex in the City days for any of you Sex in the City fans. Oh my gosh, that's right. One of my favorite episodes, actually, just noting. But but yeah, at the end of the day, you know, like we're all in this together and we're people first and foremost. So regardless of the solution you're selling, whether it is you are a friend of me and it's going to be, you know, you're up for competition. I just have the mindset that there's enough of the pie to go around. Like we can all win, right? We can all celebrate each other's successes. We can all figure it out. And if you go in with that mindset, I just I don't know. I have found that it allows you to be open-minded, to build the trust, to have a true relationship where is and I've I've worked with folks that don't have that mindset, and it definitely becomes more of a just a friction-filled relationship that is unfortunate because again, I really do believe there is enough to go around. So at the end of the day, if even if we are selling, you know, competing products, we I'm sure we'll still be able to bring value to each other, even if it means, you know, if you win this deal over our company, okay, great. But in the future, who knows? One, maybe there's an opportunity for us to collaborate on something else. We could work together. I'm sure we have similar skill sets that we could value and learn from each other. And I just I don't I'm just a firm believer in, again, people first. So solutions are gonna be solutions. We are ping-pong from company to company. It doesn't really matter.

SPEAKER_00 14:17

Yeah, good point.

unknown 14:19

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 14:20

Right. And at the end of the day, if if I know I can trust K Coffee Bacon regardless of what she's selling, and she actually has a true benefit or a true belief in what I can bring to the table, you're damn right I'm gonna want to work with her in the future on whatever it could be. So that's why that's my approach. And that's why I feel like you and I have never had that like I don't really know how to feel it's no, because at the end of the day, who knows how long we're gonna be in these, you know, positions that we're in today. And I really like you as a human. So like I want to continue to work together.

SPEAKER_00 14:53

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 14:53

So that's my approach. And it tends to work pretty good again for the the folks that have that open-minded uh way of thinking, I would say.

SPEAKER_00 15:00

And I I also believe that the more that you hold on and the tighter that you hold on, the less that you get back. Completely agree. The more that you give, the more that you let go and have these relationships, have these conversations, the more that comes to you. I mean, you made a really great point. It is there are seasons in our channel, or I call it the fruit basket turnover, and people are hopping from from company to company. And, you know, there may be a time in the future where we are in a direct collaboration with each other. You never know. But we walk into that collaboration with an established relationship because I I'm I adore you, Danielle. I I have nothing but the the best in hopes and wishes for you. And um, yeah, that was such a great point. And that's that's uh in our like staff meetings. I'm like, you know, this person might not be any kind of you know great partner for us right now, but give it six months, you never know. Like exactly around here, yeah, you never know.

SPEAKER_01 16:09

No, it's and again, it it all boils down to like we're people, people first and foremost, and everyone and I what I love about especially the circle of women we've all kind of gotten to know, especially closely in the Microsoft ecosystem. We all bring something different to the table. We all have different strengths and opportunities and personality traits. And I love that. And we all want to see each other win. That to me is truly something really special that I've never experienced, especially with a group of women. Yeah. I think it can be again, we want to talk about frenemies, whether it be personal, professional. I think women can be difficult. And there's, you know, a bit of a, you know, competitive slash, this is my territory, you can't step in, et cetera, et cetera. And I am just so grateful that we are surrounded by so many like-minded, open women that celebrate wins that want each of each of us to be successful. And it's just such a breath of fresh air. Like people always ask me specifically about the Microsoft ecosystem. Like, what makes it different? Like, it there is just an energy that I have never personally experienced in any anywhere else. And it, you know, I'm not putting anywhere else down, but it is truly special. And I'm just so grateful to be a part of it.

SPEAKER_00 17:25

So I love that we're transitioning into talking about women and leadership. Um, it's it's a topic I don't get to talk about a lot on coffee talks, surprisingly. And we know I'm a huge advocate for women in leadership, for women in tech. I've designed programs and uh just all kinds of opportunities for women to find belonging and and to help them equip them for for the next opportunity. And and you said something. I'm I this might be an unpopular opinion, but you know what? It's it's my show. I'm gonna say it. I think, Danielle, and I I I want your opinion on this. I think that as women, we are we're doing the needle is moving. The needle is moving with our opportunities. I think sometimes we get in our own way. We think the table is only so big. So I have to fight and vie for this this seat at the table. My answer to that is we'll build a bigger table.

SPEAKER_01 18:23

That's right.

SPEAKER_00 18:24

Like we, I am, I am not fighting for a position. I'm not fighting for a role. We'll cram more chairs in. We will build a bigger table. There's room for all of us. And, you know, as we move through our our, I'll say the word empowerment, our enablement as as being women leaders, we have we have to get out of our own way with that a little bit, I think. As I get deeper into this, I'm kind of seeing that. And I'm I'm just gonna, you know, if if there's something that's difficult to talk about, I'm gonna talk about it.

SPEAKER_01 18:57

Yeah, no, I agree. I agree. And I see it unfortunately more and more often when I speak to women in general. And I have the same mindset as as you. It's not fighting over the one seat. It's let's build the bigger table. Let's have the bigger mindset that again, it's not like we we have the opportunity. Let's take it and run with it. We don't have to limit ourselves. And that is a def that is a different mindset. And it's not always easy. There are definitely moments where I think sometimes I, you know, imposter syndrome pops in and do am I worthy? And all, you know, all of the things. But at the end of the day, yeah, we are.

SPEAKER_00 19:39

Yeah, we are.

SPEAKER_01 19:40

And we, if we don't believe it, no one else is gonna believe it. And we have to all, I guess, rally around each other and have the belief that it is possible. And again, it's not always easy, but I do feel more confident as we start to kind of link arms with women that are again have that like-mindedness. I think we, we together, amongst many other women that we are building this kind of uh friendship, relationship ecosystem with, it is becoming more common than uncommon. It's taking time, you know, as it would be. But I will say I think having more conversations with women who don't necessarily feel like they belong or that they don't deserve a seat at the table, having more conversations with women like us, it's starting to expand and change that mindset and get, like you said, like let's get them, let's not be putting ourselves in our own way. Like, let's open, open ourselves up to the possibilities that are amazing.

SPEAKER_00 20:38

So yeah, I've I've had a really interesting transition over the last eight or nine months, probably since she builds at community summit last year. And I get to have all of these hallway conversations with women that just come up to me and they they speak so so openly, so freely with me. And I do not take that for granted. That is such a gift to have that and to hold that space and and take that message and and do something with it. Like we were talking about with empathy. Like, what are you doing with it? How are you, you know, how are you giving that legs? And and these are some of the conversations that I'm having is, you know, I it's it's the imposter syndrome, which is not it's that that's not a stranger to to anyone. If if you have a beating heart, you have imposter syndrome. But just creating more of an awareness and an open dialogue around that and and how can we help each other and and who can be your anger? Who can be your anchor point to to get through, you know, when when that doubt, when that question kind of rises, and it's normal. I think we try, we think that there's something wrong with us, and it's it's completely it's completely normal.

SPEAKER_01 21:48

We're again, we're human. We're people at the bottom line, you know, we're all doing our best. We're all doing this, we're trying our best to make it work, uh, be it whether we're parents, going through a difficult hard season, you name it. It's we're doing our Best. That's it.

SPEAKER_00 22:01

You mentioned when you work alongside other women that have gone through difficult seasons, there's an unspoken understanding. And could you could you talk more about that?

SPEAKER_01 22:13

Yeah, it's, I feel as though there is this expectation that, at least in the past, I'm I think I've kind of evolved over the last several years that I've gone through my own hard season, that, you know, you need to show up one way at work and be professional. And you need to kind of keep your personal life to the side. And you gotta, you know, you can't muddy the waters at work. Let's just put it that way. And I've learned, and for good or bad, I am who I am, and I'm gonna be authentic and I'm gonna share me fully at work. And so that people understand that I'm real. And I think it's helped people feel comfortable and feel open and a trusted bond that if I'm gonna share, and again, you know, I think everybody has the threshold of how much they want to share, how open they want to feel. And I totally respect that. But I personally felt very alone when I was going through my IVF infertility journey because nobody talked about it. I didn't know anybody that went through it. And I didn't want other people to feel that way. So, you know, when I was having conversations, whether it be with women in the partner ecosystem or women at my current company that were either going through, you know, infertility or IVF or I had a sense that something was going on. I always proactively shared my own story to just kind of set the tone that listen, you don't have to share, but I will. And this is what I've gone through and how hard it's been for me. And most of the time, I think over my experience, I would get the sense when someone was like inch itching or like wanting to share, but maybe a little bit hesitant. And like I said, that unspoken bond or that unspoken kind of feeling was there that opened up that door for them to walk through and feel like this was safe. That was always the big thing. I want people to feel safe to share as much or as little as they wanted to. And I am grateful that, you know, I've had other folks that and women in particular that have shared their journeys with me too. That has allowed me to feel more comfortable, more confident, to be very open at work. That, you know, I once lived in these parallel lives of, okay, I'm not gonna talk about this. But it it became a consuming situation, you know, it I couldn't ignore it anymore. And I didn't want people at work to be like, what's going on? Like, why is she feeling XYZ or not showing up the way she typically would? And it made a lot of sense to people when they actually knew the reality of the situation. So it's it's a difficult and sensitive topic, but it once you start talking about it, you realize on there's so many parents out there. And it even if it didn't impact them directly, a lot of the time they knew someone or a family member or whatever. And uh it just instantly connected people together. And I've made so many connections through this story that I'm super grateful for, considering it's such, you know, difficult challenge that I've had to face.

SPEAKER_00 25:13

Yeah, I think that's why vulnerability is so important in leadership. How can we as leaders, and I don't necessarily mean leaders in our workplace, but leaders like in our community, how can we create more of these environments?

SPEAKER_01 25:27

Yeah, that's a great question. I I again, I think it really just boils down to being being that being comfortable being vulnerable, which is a very scary thing. I mean, I to this day I get scared of sharing certain things that are difficult in my life because there's gonna be, you know, IVF and infertility is one example of a difficult season that to be transparent now feels like decades ago, but during it, it was so challenging. So I think just being open, being willing to listen. Um, I I I've learned over not only being empathetic and authentic, but really being a good active listener. That to me, as a leader, as just a human being, asking questions and listening to whatever it may be and whatever someone is willing to share, people instantly feel better. People instantly feel like the guard is going down. Oh, this person actually cares about what I have to say. And again, whether it's professionally, personally, I just want to know you as a person. And I think just building a community where it's not just about, you know, talking about me, me, me, but take a pause and let me get to know you. Like, let's ask some questions. Tell me about yourself. Are you a parent? What are you interested in? You know, what what how do we connect? Where are you from? All the like the simple things that could potentially make someone feel valued and feel safe and feel as though they matter. It seems so like simplistic, but at least from conversations I've had with many coworkers and personal and family members in my life, not enough people ask questions. Not enough people are active listeners. And that is something that is constantly brought up when I'm I'm talking with people. And I just think it's such a undervalued skill that people should bring to the table to make people feel safe and comfortable to be vulnerable.

SPEAKER_00 27:24

But it is absolutely one of those skills that you can lean into and learn and be better with it. It's certainly something that I'm working on as the host of a podcast, leaning in and, you know, I for a long time it might be a generational thing, but I I didn't feel comfortable asking questions. Right. I was like, I don't want them to think I'm nosy or I'm just genuinely curious about people and I want to understand people and the way that they think and the way and and the motivation behind their actions and reactions because that helps me have more compassion for them. If I if I understand someone more, so finally I got out of my own way and just started asking people questions. For me, it wasn't what I expected. I expected people to feel like I was like prying or, you know, again being nosy, but they people see that I'm genuinely interested in them. Right. And their story. And I genuinely care because I do. I'm just so thankful that now at 46 years old, I don't give a damn anymore. I want to know you. And and you know, it it comes from a genuine place, and I know that and trust that about myself. Yeah. So yeah, that active listening part, that's such a great answer to that question. And it's it's a pathway to to create deeper relationships. Relationships that are based on trust. It is vulnerable to share. It is vulnerable to share some of these things. But when you do and you get to the other side of it, and then people start, then maybe you're someone's anger that's going through that. Right. They're like, oh, I know who I can call.

SPEAKER_01 29:05

That's right. Right. I love what you said about the genuineness of asking the questions. I think that's such a nuanced thing that I maybe I just take it for granted that people should assume, of course I'm being genuine, but it doesn't always come off that way. And to your point, I know us, you know, we definitely have that genuine, authentic, like I just want to know you because I want, I'm curious and I want to build that trust and I want to understand. Um, but sometimes, you know, some people have been through difficult seasons and other aspects of their life. So their guard is up and they are not trustworthy. And, you know, they do assume that you're interrogating them or it's coming from a malicious place. So it is a balancing act, I would say. And that's why I think getting to know people, understanding where they're coming from, some of their history, all of that helps you kind of figure out the approach because we're not all one size fits all, right? We're all chameleon, like you gotta be a chameleon, I feel like in relationships and figure out how's it, what's it gonna take to really connect and have that genuine, you know, relationship, which isn't always easy. Um I just thought I thought that's a really great point because it it needs to be genuine, and if it isn't, then don't please don't do it. Don't do it. Yeah, it's uh not gonna work.

SPEAKER_00 30:23

Uh reflect back on you as a mom. Congratulations. You have two children, they are beautiful. I've told you they can have my Amazon passcode, they can have whatever they want. They're so cute. Whenever I get pictures of them, I'm like, oh my gosh, you guys, it would not serve for me to live anywhere closer to you because I would show up with, you know, things you don't need in your house all the time. You're so good. So you're a working mom, which can be its own, its own challenge. But how has motherhood shaped the way that you're leading today? I know you gave one example. Yeah. How is how is it impacting you now?

SPEAKER_01 31:05

Yeah, you know, I being a mom, I think is the hardest job in the world. So putting that on my bumper sticker, it's by far the most challenging job I've ever held, but also the most rewarding and the most fulfilling. And so I think, you know, both having I've got a six-year-old and an almost four-year-old. So I'm definitely in the thick of it. You know, they're becoming their own little people and personality, and they challenge me every single day. So sometimes I feel like showing up at work is sometimes easier than managing, you know, the home craziness. But they have taught me patience beyond patience and understanding that, again, you got to ask the right questions. You have to, you can't assume that you know. And I think they teach me every day that, you know, I what I think I know in one pass very quickly can shift in ebb and flow if I'm not, you know, taking a pause, being patient, under trying to understand, seek to understand before being understood. That's like one of those that's always like stood out in my head. And they just have also taught me how resiliency can show up even at such a young age and to be brave. There are these little people that are conquering, you know, my son just finished kindergarten and he walked in those doors, you know, no problem. I'm just gonna go do this thing. And, you know, today was actually his last day of kindergarten, and he learned how to read, learned how to write this year. It was a really big year, and just seeing his growth, I'm just so proud of it. And so taking all of the lessons that they teach me literally every single day and kind of slowing down how I show up as a leader, seeking again, seeking to understand, asking the right questions, showing up with empathy and patience. They show me that every day. And I hope as a leader, people feel that shift and change in me because I know it's again working for it's we're here to do a job, but we're doing the job for our families, for our friends. Like we have other passions in life. And so I think they just remind me that there's a bigger picture here and let's not forget like why we're doing what we're doing.

SPEAKER_00 33:18

So I love that. And the lessons just won't stop. No, they just won't stop.

SPEAKER_01 33:24

For good or bad, they will never stop.

SPEAKER_00 33:26

For good or bad, and then, you know, I I have had this previous conversation on another coffee talk. They they get big and then they start learning things on their own and they come back to you with those lessons, and it there's a whole new sense of pride that comes in that. And um, you know, when they that they have hardships and but you know what, you you're modeling, you're modeling resilience, you're modeling empathy for them in the way that you're navigating with them, and uh and so they'll they'll they'll find it and and grow into it. Yeah, and being a mom is just the best.

SPEAKER_01 34:06

It really is. It's it is the best, most exhaust. I'm I'm not sure I've ever been more tired in my entire life. However, I've never felt more fulfilled and more proud. Um, and it it's just so nice to have women like ourselves that we're all moms and we are traveling, you know, the Microsoft ecosystem circuit together. And when we show up, it's you know, what's the latest in your life? And tell me about your kids and what's going on. And and like you said, like we're modeling what what resilience looks like, but also going after our dreams. Yeah. And that to me, I don't take that lightly. And I know it takes a village. I'm very big on, you know, you can't do it all by yourself. And you need to have the proper support system in place, whether you're going through those hard seasons or not, or just day to day. And that that's that kind of that family unit and whatever you want to call it support. It it looks different in every family, and that's fine. And I just think it's so important to call out and would not, I personally would not be able to do what I'm doing today and showing up the way that I am today without that family unit, that support system for my kids. So just wanted to shout that out because it's just so important.

SPEAKER_00 35:20

It's so important. We we know several women that are not mothers, and I I keep turning back to mentorship. And a lot of these same lessons can be picked up in in mentorship, and a lot of that pride that comes in seeing that growth that maybe you were a part of of helping to to manifest, to, to see. Um, you know, I have younger team members and young professionals on my team now. Like, I'm in this headspace of looking back and and asking myself these questions about me as a younger professional and how was I showing up. You you can't help but, right? In this in this mentorship phase that I'm in. So I'm gonna turn this question on you. When you this is a a question I've been like literally journaling right now. Okay. To kind of get back in in touch with with who I was as a professional, young professional. When you think about the younger version of yourself just starting in your career, what would she be the most surprised to learn about the leader that you are now?

SPEAKER_01 36:29

Great question. I think she'd be shocked to see how patient I've become and how empathetic. I mean, I've always considered myself empathetic, but I was not empathetic back, you know, in my very early years uh to who I am today. I've become way, I don't soft isn't necessarily the word compassionate, maybe is more gentle. Because I am definitely, I mean, I come from an Eastern European family. You know, we were told, like, you just go and do, and there are no feelings in this family. So I think, you know, the person I was when I first started in my career versus who I am today, I'm way more understanding, way more patient. I want people to feel supported. And while I I still have very high expectations of others, of myself. I think there came a of yes, we can still have high expectations, but there's also other things that we need to recognize and understand that are gonna impact the results. And it's not just this, you know, black and white world. And we have to be willing to accept that. And that might maybe move the needle. Um, it might push out, you know, a deadline, it might change X, Y, Z. But at the end of the day, people who feel loved, supported, and truly safe and trusted are gonna go the extra mile and versus the ones that are constantly feeling, you know, interrogated or micromanaged or, you know, I have I have some stories back in my early days of managing people. Horrific. I'm not proud of it.

SPEAKER_00 38:09

You learn.

SPEAKER_01 38:10

Right. Exactly. I use yes, I share them often with newer uh leaders today. And you just it's I'm so much more patient and understanding than I I once was, for sure.

SPEAKER_00 38:20

What do you think you've had to unlearn in your in your path into to where you are now?

SPEAKER_01 38:28

Yeah, that's a great question. I feel like I've had to unlearn that everyone is created equal, or in the sense of, or like everyone shows up the same. Maybe that's better.

SPEAKER_00 38:39

That's a big one, Danielle. That's a big one. Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 38:42

Yeah. Like, well, everyone's gonna show up the way that I show up. And so that's just gonna be the way that it's gonna be. And to give people grace and to meet people where they can meet you. That is a very difficult thing for me, even to the to this day. I'm not great, like perfect at it or even great at it. I'm getting better at it. But yeah, I think just ex having that expectation that everyone will show up the same, that's just not the case. And that, and that doesn't make it wrong. I think that's the big piece. It's that's just the way it is. And so you have to, again, meet people where they're able to meet you and have sometimes difficult conversations, but you still have to have an openness to doing so. I think that that's been a very difficult learning for me over the years for sure.

SPEAKER_00 39:29

A couple of years ago, someone that I was working with had that conversation with me. You know, she literally sat me down and looked at me and she said, not everyone is gonna show up the same way that you do. And you have to understand that as a leader, and you cannot have the same expectations on everyone else that you have on yourself. And I was like, but what does that look like on a Tuesday? Right? Like that's such a great concept. Yes. And I had to settle into that truth. And yeah, I made some missteps. And but you learn. You I I can't undo it. I can only say, you know what, I blew it. I totally blew it. And I learned, and here's what I learned, and here's how I'm gonna show up differently moving forwards. I think that's a really big one. Okay, as we kind of wrap up our time, I like to end with a few quick reflections. Sure. You ready? Reflection time.

SPEAKER_01 40:26

I'm ready for it.

SPEAKER_00 40:27

What's something you're currently saying yes to right now?

SPEAKER_01 40:32

Man, good question. I am saying yes to more time with my kids, which in turn is a no to some work obligations that I typically would say yes to. So yeah, more with summer coming in, I I want quality time with my kids.

SPEAKER_00 40:50

Absolutely. What's something you're giving yourself permission to let go of?

SPEAKER_01 40:55

I'm trying to let go the expectation that you gotta have it all in every single bucket all the time. It is very difficult. I constantly feel like I'm, you know, I'm spinning plates and I'm having to carry them all at the same time. And I'm again, as much as I'm trying to give others grace, I'm trying to give myself grace to under to know that it's okay if you can't do it all at the same time and carry it all. Because it's it's hard. It's hard stuff.

SPEAKER_00 41:23

It is hard. I really love that. I'm like, retweet, ditto, retweet everything you say. Absolutely. What's one piece of advice that you'd like to leave listeners with today?

SPEAKER_01 41:38

You know, I think, gosh, there's so many great topics and and nuggets I think we've really hit on today. But if nothing else, for anyone listening that is also going through a hard season, that maybe doesn't feel safe sharing or being vulnerable, just know you will get through it. It is one of whatever the season could be. It is when you're in the muck of it, it feels impossible to get to the other side, but you will get through it and you will be better and stronger for it. Whether you probably are laughing, thinking like, yeah, okay, like this is the worst thing that could have happened to me. But I assure you that the lessons you're taking from it, once you're on the other side, you can reflect back and be like, wow, like I did that and it might have been terrible, but I did it. And now I can conquer more things. So that would be, I think, my biggest takeaway for those that are going through that hard season.

SPEAKER_00 42:30

It's a big one. And I think the more that we go through in our life and the more that we experience that truth becomes ours.

SPEAKER_01 42:38

That's right.

SPEAKER_00 42:39

And you see evidence of that in your life, but to have someone encouraging you and saying that can really help with navigating those difficult waters. The thing that is sitting with me and that I keep coming back to it throughout your story, resil resilience isn't about pretending like everything is okay. I think it's okay to be vulnerable and real and honest about the things that we're going through. And when you're navigating something, something that feels uncertain, just to say, dude, I'm figuring it out right now. I don't I don't really know. And it's okay to say, I don't know. Go ahead.

SPEAKER_01 43:19

Retweet, retweet, retweet.

SPEAKER_00 43:21

Like that.

SPEAKER_01 43:21

I'm thinking that is that is everything. Like saying it's not like I am not okay right now is like that is everything. Like you're right, it's not, and that's okay. It's okay to not be okay. It is a hard, I'm sure you felt it too. Like as a woman in a you know, high developing career, having children, you feel like you can't always say it. And so having you just kind of echo that out to the atmosphere, like, yes, it's okay to not be okay and to share that. Like I feel that in my my core. So thank you for saying that.

SPEAKER_00 43:55

That means and I think it's just to have someone else come alongside you and say, you're not alone. Exactly. I get it. I've I'm I'm just coming out of that season, or or yeah, I've been through that, or just to have that camaraderie. Women as women, especially, we need camaraderie. We need, we need each other. And that is the motivation behind the spaces that I try to create is that I know how much we need each other. I see it evidenced in my own life and people like you and so many others that I do feel like I can just say, my this is so hard. Yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_01 44:34

There's no judgment, no judgment, only support.

SPEAKER_00 44:36

It's a meaning to say it. I just need to say it. I need to stop being strong and I need to message my friend Danielle and say, This is really hard right now.

SPEAKER_01 44:44

Yeah, because guess what? I'm going through a tour. I've been there and I get it. And I'm here for you. Like tell me, spill your guess. Yeah, and then you feel better.

SPEAKER_00 44:51

Yeah, exactly. And then you feel better. And I think sometimes just saying the things out loud gives you the roadmap that you need to navigate, just getting it out of your brain and giving it some space. Danielle, thank you for coming on to Coffee Talk today. Again, thank you for showing up fully and wholly as yourself, your authentic self, and sharing so much of your journey. I know it will resonate with the listeners. If you are listening, thank you for spending your time with me this to today. You could be doing a hundred other things. Thank you for tuning in. Um, until next time, grab a cup of coffee. Have a meaningful, real, authentic conversation. And remember that some of life's most difficult chapters often become the stories that help someone else feel a little bit less alone. We'll see you next time. Bye. Thank you so much. Thank you for joining us today on Coffee Talk. A special thanks to my guests for sharing their story and to you, the listener, for being a part of this conversation. If you enjoyed today's episode, be sure to subscribe so you never miss a Monday morning chat. Until next time, I'm Kate Coffee Bacon, and this has been Coffee Talk.