Sports Live! With Steve and Justin

Super Bowl Stakes And Hall Of Fame Debates

• Steve and Justin

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Football judgment gets messy when numbers collide with moments, and this week we jump straight into the gray area. We open by questioning how teams price proven players versus prospects, and why analytics can miss the value of durability, role fit, and the intangible lift of a hard-won huddle. That tension sets up two big debates: Eli Manning’s Hall of Fame case and Belichick’s legacy amid committee politics and shifting narratives.

We lay out Eli’s arc from scrutiny to signature wins, noting how his best football showed up when everything else broke down. Then we zoom out to examine how coaches are judged—why regular-season brilliance gets dismissed without rings—while quarterbacks often face the opposite standard. With Belichick, we trace a dynasty built on salary-cap jiu-jitsu, special teams obsession, and exquisitely defined roles for players who didn’t fit elsewhere. The contrast with ownership meddling in places like Dallas and New York is stark: alignment wins, impatience wastes prime years.

Our Super Bowl preview centers on Seattle’s balance and explosive afterburners against a New England team that thrives on red-zone efficiency and low-variance choices. We spotlight Jackson Smith-Njigba as the matchup pivot, weigh Drake Maye’s shoulder, and split our picks: one rides Seattle’s ceiling, the other grabs New England and the points. Along the way, we hit the coaching carousel, the Rangers’ identity drift and front-office misreads, and the Knicks’ need for the right star—not just any star—to unlock a strong core.

If you want a sharper way to watch the big game—scheme, psychology, and the hidden math of roster building—this one’s for you. Tap play, share with a friend who loves football debates, and tell us your pick in the comments. And if you’re new here, follow the show and leave a quick review to help others find it.

Super Bowl Preview And Player Pay

SPEAKER_01

It's the Super Bowl preview show, a show we've been waiting for for some time, and all kinds of other things. Cooper Cup. Hated by one team, loved by the other. Guess we'll see what happens. Welcome to our show. Hello, Justin. Good afternoon, Your Honor. So everyone, I meant to say Cooper Flag scores 49 points or whatever since NBA record. But I was talking about the Super Bowl, so I said Cooper Cup. But Cooper Cup, you know, is uh I guess he got back at um Los Angeles real real quick the other day. He sure did. He had something to say about it, too. I I didn't really hear it, but he had something to say.

SPEAKER_04

Yeah, I think it was about them not wanting to pay and making excuses for you know why they wouldn't bring him back.

SPEAKER_01

It's amazing, and I I think it's this way everywhere in business, especially when you're doing with personalities and egos, is that you know teams just decide that certain players, no matter what they've accomplished, they're just not gonna pay them. And then they spend a ton of money on somebody they don't know.

SPEAKER_04

Yeah. Trying to replace the numbers of the person they're letting go of using probably most likely analytics, as we talk about all the time, to justify shaving a few dollars here to pay a guy who's clearly got all the tools and skills you need to be a a winning formula, put together a winning team. And then they try and justify it because some guy has a quicker 40 time and you know an extra quarter inch of finger on his on his hands, or you know, who knows. But that's the business. That's what these guys engage in when there's a salary cap and they have to justify bringing players in and out.

Eli Manning’s Legacy And Rings

SPEAKER_01

You know, I was thinking of something we were talking about the other day, not on the air, but just Justin and I were talking about the NFL Hall of Fame. And listen, the whole thing with Belichick, uh, I don't know what to say. But I was thinking about all the comments that were made about Eli Manning, how he didn't have good years, how how you know he threw a lot of interceptions, all these things. And the guy has two Super Bowl rings.

SPEAKER_04

He beat two of the best teams that ever lived, including the best coach and best quarterback ever to coach or play the game.

SPEAKER_01

In the best year they ever had. Yeah. All right, people say it was luck. Luck is where preparation meets opportunity. That's all I have to say about that.

SPEAKER_04

The defense did their job, and that's what gave the opportunity to the offense to make a play and win the game. And that's what a team sport is. And he's every bit of part of that victory is anybody else in uniform that day.

SPEAKER_01

And all you could say, the goat, right? Undisputably the best quarterback ever to live. What are the only two thorns in his side? Eli Manning beating him in the Super Bowl twice. But I just was thinking about the irony or misconpare uh comparison. Coaches were fired this year. Really good coaches. Buffalo, Baltimore. Why? Because it didn't matter what they did in the regular season. They didn't win a Super Bowl. That's right. But now there's a quarterback, and what are we saying? It doesn't matter he won a Super Bowl. He didn't do anything during the regular season to make him a Hall of Famer.

SPEAKER_04

I I just think that's such an unfair criticism for a variety of reasons. You know, Eli was on a team that had virtually nothing. I don't want to say nothing, but virtually nothing. They did have, you know, Michael Strahan the whole time. But that team did exactly what winning teams do when your goal is to win a Super Bowl. They progressed every year from his rookie season to year five when they won the Super Bowl. And every year he got a little bit better. And the year before, they lost, they they lost to uh Carolina. I think they got shut out, and it was doom and gloom, and they were gonna fire Tom Coughlin and Eli's not the guy, and blah, blah, blah. And you had to wonder for me at that point in my life, realizing how destructive the New York media is, forget about how critical they are. But they're just a bunch of talking heads that chew on everything, and you they can never be positive when someone doesn't win. And that's unfair to the players. And case in point, Sam Darnold got run out of town twice. Robert Saylor got run out of town. Robert Saylor got a new new gig as the head coach of the Titans. Sam Darnold's in the Super Bowl. You know, these it takes time to win. And in the New York market, you have to win right now. Well, when was the last time the Giants won anything? Uh the Jets forget it, they're a lost cause.

SPEAKER_01

Yeah, but the Titans aren't getting a top-tier guy. They're not getting no so you're gonna have to like put some faith in somebody that's been had success anywhere else but New York.

SPEAKER_04

And and also to your point, Vrabel got fired by the Titans and he's in the Super Bowl with the Patriots. So, you know, it just goes to show you, you know, the the the coach matters, patience matters. You know, you have to let somebody build the program.

SPEAKER_00

Right.

SPEAKER_04

It you know, you could say, well, you know, Justin, it happened overnight with the Patriots. It really didn't. I know they came off back to back four-win seasons, but they made the decision to go with this guy. He was available, whereas plenty of cuts are available, and the Jets still have Aaron Glenn as head coach. Yeah, there's something to but to to you know, regarding the Hall of Fame, Eli Manning, Belichick, we know Belichick's gonna get into the Hall of Fame. Okay, whether we want to believe the story about Pullion and the deflate gate being the reason that they conspires against him.

SPEAKER_01

That's not what he said.

unknown

Right.

SPEAKER_01

He said he didn't remember who he voted for.

SPEAKER_04

Yeah, plausible deniability, which is garbage. Total garbage. But I, you know, Eli in in his own right, with the other players on the draft, this is not a knock on Eli. Eli Manning is a Hall of Famer. He will be a Hall of Famer, and he deserves to be a Hall of Famer. And it's not just because his last name is Manning, but the the players in this class are better than him as far as uh football players go. Because who else is in this class? Drew uh Drew Brees is in this class. So where do you where do you rank Eli in that uh conversation? But to think that he's not a Hall of Famer is not is not understanding the trajectory of his career, where he started, where he came from, how he progressed. He did everything right, the regardless of his detractors, and won two Super Bowls. So I think they would have won three if Plaxico hadn't shot himself. You know, that's debatable. Um, I think every Giants fan feels that way.

SPEAKER_01

Um well you can also say Drew Brees may have won another one. Remember, he got burned on a bad call or something in a play.

SPEAKER_04

It happened twice to the Saints.

SPEAKER_01

Twice, two year after year. So one of those go the other way. I mean, Drew Brees, an amazing quarterback, plays hard, you know, plays with heart, has amazing ability, loved by the fans down there like mad.

SPEAKER_04

And Eli didn't have, you know, he didn't have what Drew Brees Tom Brady had in terms of protection. And I'm not, it's not a knock on his offensive line. That's a knock on the calls on the field. He got he got beat up for a long time and and no more worse than in that 49er championship game where he absolutely got the snot knocked out of him and just kept coming back. I mean, that's what you want. That's a Hall of Famer to me. He kept getting up and sticking it right back in their face, making play after play, and won that game. So it regardless of his play in the Super Bowl, it's what got him to the Super Bowl, in my opinion, that makes him a Hall of Famer. The end of his career was ruined by McAdoo and the way the Giants handled everything. Jerry Reese, McAdoo, just that whole, it was ugly. It was it was absolutely ugly. But to say that him or Tom Coughlin are not Hall of Famers is ridiculous. Because any team today, if it were 15 years ago, would take both of those guys to start their franchise or start over, or whatever you call it. You know, anybody looking for a head coach today would hire Tom Coughlin then. Anybody looking for a quarterback in the first round or, you know, with their their number one pick, they're taking Eli Manning. It's that simple.

SPEAKER_00

And that's not hindsight, it's just reality. Right. Well, I agree with you. Listen, Eli was a good quarterback.

Media Pressure And New York Patience

SPEAKER_01

He played um he played very well when a push came to shove. I mean, yes. You agree when it mattered. Did I usually complain about him? You know, when I stopped complaining about him was the San Francisco game. We probably thought we talked about it yesterday. Um that game he played. I mean, everyone, I remember watching it. People didn't, I was sitting with people that didn't even like football. And they said, how do they expect this guy to win if he's laying down, if he's getting hit by 300-pound guys? I mean, he just sacked five times and like knocked down and rushed another N.

SPEAKER_04

That'll be his legacy, is that he was his best when everything else around him was falling apart. I think getting away from the defender in the Super Bowl is the defining moment for him, really. And it's it's just encompasses everything there is to know about Eli Manning and how tough he is, and just that he's a winner and can make plays when you need him to. Although I my my my opinion on the overall scheme is is that this is completely and totally orchestrated by the NFL. They needed something to talk about this week, and here we are.

SPEAKER_01

I think there's many more things to talk about. Maybe on coach the as you I I put in a list, the NFL coach Merry-go-Round, where all right, you take this guy, I'll take this guy, and you go to this guy. Now that's generally how it works. Yeah, but I think more so this season than I ever remember.

SPEAKER_04

Um Yeah, well, I mean, there's there were more coaches with experience as head coaches available this year than in years past. So you would expect those guys to get jobs. Tomlin being the antithesis right now because he obviously he must have his eyes set on a location because for him to step away and not take an interview or go somewhere else right away, and he is a young guy, he's always only in his 50s still. So I was welcome.

SPEAKER_01

This morning I was before they hired someone else, I was thinking, you know, what are the two people we hear the least amount from? You're hearing the least amount from Tomlin, doesn't say a word, and you're not healing hearing anything, well, you weren't till today, about the Raiders. And I was like, you know what? Maybe, maybe it's gonna go to the Raiders. Maybe. And then they hired somebody else, right? They hired the offensive coordinator from um uh from Seattle, I believe.

SPEAKER_04

Oh, it's it's I didn't see that today. Uh Kiffin?

SPEAKER_01

Yeah, I think that's what I think.

SPEAKER_04

Yeah, we talked about that last week. That's that's exactly what I thought they would do. Um, and if it's official, then I think it's pretty clear that we know they're taking Mendoza number one. And that's, you know, listen, that's a perfect setup. Go figure.

SPEAKER_01

No, they're they're taking Clint Kubak.

SPEAKER_00

Uh Kubriak. Kubiac, yeah. The coach, right?

SPEAKER_01

Yeah, the OC guy. Um Michael Fior went to the went to the Cardinals.

SPEAKER_04

Interesting hire. And again, first-time head coach. So we knew that was coming because no one's gonna turn down, regardless of the state of the franchise, no one's gonna turn down a first-time head coaching opportunity, regardless of where it is.

SPEAKER_00

I agree. Whether or not he stays there is uh remains to be seen.

SPEAKER_04

But you you know, listen, you wish the guy well. Uh all of these guys. You don't want to see teams perennially stink. It's it's no fun. I've learned that over time. But some of these organizations, their ownership, they just can't get out of their what their own way.

SPEAKER_01

Yeah, I mean, it's so I mean uh Chargers hired um you know Dolphins, you know, Mike McDonald as their their OC. I I think Chargers hired former Dolphins head coach, Mike McDonald, for the new offensive coordinator.

SPEAKER_00

Um the Dolphins former head coach, Mike McDonald's.

SPEAKER_01

Yeah, Mike McDonald. McDaniel. McDaniel. McDaniel. What did I say, McDonald? McDaniels. McDaniel is the head coach of uh Seattle. And then Bills, you know, they promote Joe Brady.

Coaching Carousel And Hiring Logic

SPEAKER_04

I just I have three or four Bills fans at the bar that were like, we were running down the litany of of coaches, and every single one of them said, as long as they don't hire Brady, and who did they hire? Joe Brady.

SPEAKER_01

Because it's funny because the you just think about what the owner said. Well, you know, we didn't obviously, and he kind of, you know, I mean, they definitely included um, you know, Alan in in the mix, and he got to talk to him or interview him or whatever happened, or he was there when they interviewed him, which is nice, I guess. But your interview and your offensive coordinator, they already know. I mean, what are you gonna ask him? So what's your play? They just so I I don't get it. I just don't get it. But they fired the other guy because they didn't think they had played the good offense all year, and then they take the offensive coordinator and bump him up.

SPEAKER_04

I was not a fan of McDermott. Um, obviously, the relationship that Brady has with the quarterback is paramount to all of this. He must really love him. They must love each other. But again, you know, no, no one's turning down a head coaching job if they can get it. So I was surprised that it wasn't Dable. Um I thought for sure that, you know, maybe Judge decided, you know, if you give him the job, I'm not coming back. Kind of like a a Schwartz situation in Cleveland.

SPEAKER_01

And he went to the Titans.

SPEAKER_04

Yeah. That's that's gonna that's shaping up to be a good coach's staff to have Tennessee.

SPEAKER_01

But because he gets hired as OC, he gets both checks, or they deduct part of it? Because he's he has a guaranteed contract, right? For at least a year or more. I don't know how many. He's gotta be getting double, double, double dipping. Yeah, double dipping. So why would you take a so why would you take a head coaching job? You know, the Browns hired uh Todd Mokin. Monkin Monkin. Yeah, and and you got I think that's a perfect example of what you're saying. If there's a head coaching job out there, no matter what it is, you're gonna take it.

SPEAKER_04

They got, you know, they have some serious issues to get past.

SPEAKER_01

And they all have serious issues.

SPEAKER_04

It's not a knock at uh Shador Sanders because either you play him or you don't, right? He's either is he your quarterback, is he not your quarterback? Head coach has to make that decision day one. Is Deshaun Watson healthy enough to play? Are we still paying him? Can we trade him to the Jets and get out of this contract? Because what else is there at this point? So, you know, when you take a job like that, you just have to make decisions and stick with it, have the courage of your convictions because that's ultimately what a head coach has to do. So you have to straighten all that stuff out as soon as the plane lands on the tarmac. Um, because if you don't have a plan, you're gonna get exposed immediately. So good for Monken. Yeah, and I would say I can't imagine he'll be there more than he won't be there for the life of his contract, like every other Cleveland head coach.

SPEAKER_01

And I would realize the Dolphins, you know, they don't know what to do with Tua, whatever it is, who's playing, who's not, what are they gonna do with the offense? I mean, they may be doing the right thing, though. They went out and hired the defensive coordinator Green Bay, and maybe they say, let the offense be whatever we have for now. Let's build the defense, because we can get pretty far with a good defense. And we can let the two a thing work out over time.

SPEAKER_04

Looks like that might be their plan. I I just, you know, I worry about two's health. That's all. I I'd say something you miss there. You can't protect the guy from his own stupidity. You can't, but you you know, at some point you have to have some integrity and realize that if he can't play, he can't play.

SPEAKER_01

By the way, I I have my great main breakfast uh cup today, which is a breakfast. There's a couple. There's like great main breakfast. Great, there's like one on every block in in Bar Harbor, but Great Main Breakfast is a pretty good place. If you're ever up that way, make sure everybody goes there for breakfast in the morning. You can eat inside, outside, depending on the weather. They make everything, all their jams, all their everything themselves, so it's a good place.

SPEAKER_04

Can we add them to the official sponsor list?

SPEAKER_01

No, we cannot. But I'll be honest with you, there is a coffee place that I really love up there in Bar Harbor, and I can't remember the name of it, latte, something or other. Very low-key. They only make one size of cappuccino when it's small, and they usually have three or four of them. But the it it's a really good coffee place, kind of laid too laid back for a New Yorker, but it's that's very good. Loco Moco or something like that. Loco Coco Loco. And now I'm gonna have to figure it out. Coco latte? Something like that. So so today, not to keep so today was my sister's birthday.

SPEAKER_04

Happy birthday.

SPEAKER_01

So I posted, I didn't talk to her, but uh I mean, I called her, but she didn't answer. So I I posted, and I won't play it, but whatever. I um I hold on a second, let me see if I can find it.

SPEAKER_00

Gather round the um I posted uh shoot. I can't find it.

Hall Of Fame Criteria And Belichick

SPEAKER_01

I posted something of her today that I'm sure is going to uh bring the ire of her existence. Umly because it's an old picture. I was like 18, she's six years or five years older than me, so she was what, 23? And you know, I I actually had hair and too much of it, and a beard and whatever, and thin. I mean, it was uh definitely an unusual picture. And and she was there, and I I used AI and and she sings uh My Milkshake, you know that song? My milkshake. Shaking is the boys, the boys of the art. And her mouth moves. And I posted it on Instagram and whatever. So I just answered the phone for a while. I did a whole bunch. I originally did a whole bunch like that. So yeah. Oh, you can't see. And you literally you can't really see, right? Because the light blurs you out. Her mouse moving, and I'm sitting there with a beard and she won't talk to you for a while, I'm sure. Yeah. So, and all her friends were like, is that you, Marianne? Is that you? But I did a whole bunch of those, like some old pictures. I did some of like my mom and dad from their wedding pictures. They were hysteric. My favorite is I did a picture of my dog. Because when I got divorced, my ex-wife wouldn't let me see the dog again. It was like torture, even though I thought yeah. And it was a little cute Maltese, and I had this great picture, and I animated it, and I and I put in the song from um Fast and Furious that they do at the end when What's His Name died? It's been a long time since it was he, you my friend. And the dog is singing this song, and it's and it looks like next time I'm with you, see. And I and I I posted it on the internet. My friend called me up. It was before I finalized the divorce. My friend called me up. He goes, if you're looking to make this a total war, keep posting stuff like that. So I had to take it down, but it's really good. Next time I'm with you, I'll show you the dog. I mean, you look at it, you want to cry because the dog sings it perfectly with the AI. Dangerous. Yeah, give me a computer and uh a couple of things I could take over the world. Back in my hacker days before there was crimes. I'm sorry, we diverged from sports, did we? Just a little. I apologize for my shortcomings. Uh but where were we? We were talking about coaches and stupidity.

SPEAKER_04

Coaches in Cleveland and quarterback situation.

SPEAKER_03

Now I got the giggles.

SPEAKER_01

You know, but I think I think when it comes to the Hall of Fame, I I think they did theirself a great disservice by not um by allowing this gang of eleven people to keep Belichick out of the Hall of Fame. Um Yeah, they have an integrity issue right now, for sure. And I I yes, I agree with that.

SPEAKER_04

If you if you personally had made an argument, I don't know that these guys sit in a room and discuss this stuff, but apparently they did. Well, that's a problem because I I mean let me backtrack for a second.

SPEAKER_01

Well, there is a thing they do where they do a presentation on all the players that are eligible. There is something they do like that. But who's better than him as a coach? Don Shula?

SPEAKER_04

Maybe. Different era, but sure, Shula's a great.

SPEAKER_01

Maybe Shula's a great coach, took Super Bowl, the Baltimore. Tom Landry, Lombardy, uh Chuck Knoll. Chuck Knoll, Chuck Knoll. But maybe he's better than Chuck Knoll. I mean, look at the era he played in. He really had to manipulate. I mean, Chuck Knoll was a great coach, don't get me wrong. But he had great teams. Um, what's the guy? Uh Brown from um the Browns. Um Paul Brown. Paul Brown. I mean, we're talking great, great, great coaches, but you know, maybe in this era he's been able to do things that no other coach has been able to do. I mean, you get two, maybe three. Bill Walsh.

SPEAKER_04

Bill Walsh was a great coach. Yeah, no doubt about it. I mean, there's still coaches from that tree in the league. He he's he's he managed a dynastic franchise for 20 years through the evolution of the salary cap formation that we have coming out of that era that Bill Walsh coached in, where there was no salary cap really. Um, and Belichick did something, and we talked about it previously. He he he didn't just come, it's not like he was a defensive coordinator and came there and just coached the defense. He coached the whole team, including special teams. He was involved in every facet of the game, including drafting all the players for his roster. He knew exactly what every player's role was from top to bottom, one to 53. He had a plan for each of those players.

SPEAKER_01

Right.

SPEAKER_04

When they get guys like Danny Woodhead and they, you know, get him off the scrap pile, or they make deals for people like um Wes Welker and then Julian Edelman following that. You know, they they had a specific plan for all of those players. And remember when we talked about, you know, he was gonna trade Gronk to Cleveland, and Gronk retired, right? So they still won. You know, well, they hit they not without Gronk, but point being that everything, there was a plan for everything, and nothing was left unturned in terms of his plan was we're gonna do it this way, and everybody everybody's got orders, right? It's like it's it's a game of attrition, and everybody plays their part. And there was nothing that, you know, that was the difference between them and everybody else.

SPEAKER_01

Do your job, remember? Do your job.

SPEAKER_04

They say all the Patriot way. It's just it's Belichick's way. Just do what the coach tells you. If you don't, it what was the the the playoff game? The Bears, right? That guy that didn't finish that route that Caleb Williams got intercepted on in the in the final, is that guy playing for Belichick next year? Probably not.

unknown

Right?

SPEAKER_01

Yeah, you got you definitely got penalized when things weren't right. You know what I mean? You always had to have that 110%.

SPEAKER_04

You just had to follow instruction and do things properly. And yes, you have to hustle. You have to go 110% on every play. That's the difference between winning and losing, going to the Super Bowl and staying home in January. It's it's it sounds simple. Maybe I'm oversimplifying it, but regardless of your talent level, if you could give 100%, Belichick would find a place for you. He had a role for you. And a lot of teams just don't have that in their coaching staffs, they don't have that in their scouting departments, they don't, they just they don't fit the mesh from top to bottom. But the coaches that have autonomy, the coaches that control the whole roster, the coaches that have a say in picking who they want on the roster and making room for guys, those are the teams that win.

SPEAKER_01

I agree. And and just look at Dallas.

The Patriot Way And Roster Craft

SPEAKER_04

Dallas was every bit of a Super Bowl contender when Tony Romo was there, and Jerry couldn't get out of his own damn way. And I know they had, I always say Tony Romo had the most unfortunate string of unfortunate incidents happen to him that shouldn't have happened, which even though he was involved in those plays, I don't, I still don't think they were his fault. Like the snap, botch snap, the two-point conversion, the fumble, all none of that should have happened. It did happen, but it shouldn't have happened. Not pointing that not his fault. But all the things that led to those deficiencies in that team, you can point at Jerry Jones and say, you know, that's that's you. That's on you. It was no I mean, that team had a great offensive line. All I mean, they had all the all the the the the parts for the meal. They just need somebody to cook the meal without Jerry throwing extra ingredients in there.

SPEAKER_00

I guess that's true.

SPEAKER_01

Um you know I th I mean there were there were a lot of a lot of a lot of things.

SPEAKER_04

So um unless you're the Jets, when you just you can't get out of your own way regardless. And the owner meddles in everything you your coaches do.

SPEAKER_01

Well, they definitely meddle into everything your coaches do, there's no question about it. Um, but I don't know. It seems to me um I was trying to upload that video so I could play it and my sister singing, but I wasn't able to do it. The um it seems to me that during the era of this era of of coaches having to deal with salary caps and renegotiating contracts and that he was 50% of a team with Tom Brady being the other 50% who sat down and said it and worked, even though they didn't really like each other, which is also a facet of it, personally, for whatever reason. Um and they because they both were the center of their own universe, that's why, but at least I believe so, they were able to come up with a plan and execute that plan perfectly. And if they didn't win the Super Bowl, they came damn close.

SPEAKER_04

And they came back with another plan to beat you the year after.

SPEAKER_01

The year after. It was okay, this guy's gotta go, this guy's gotta go, this guy's gonna want too much money. If we can get this guy to take this amount of money, we could keep him, and they would build a team together.

SPEAKER_04

I know Tom, you know, restructured and took less money than other guys were getting to help that team win, and that's a huge part of it. I have to wonder how much Belichick influenced him, and I don't want to say threatened him, but you knew Tom wasn't gonna leave New England because he has a great relationship with Robert Kraft. At the end, obviously that was a different story because it seemed like Kraft, the needle went the other way and shifted towards Belichick, which I, you know, that's a hard thing, I'm sure. But Brady taking less money and Belichick kind of maybe holding that over his head, in my opinion, worked against Belichick in the end there. But they had already won, you know, six Super Bowls. So who might have criticized? It worked for 20 years and they were great. And we'll probably never see anything like that again. You know, unless Andy Reid and Patrick Mahomes can figure something out and retool and come back again. But, you know, and I'm not saying they can't do it because they have their own formula and it does work. But I think Reed's done. I I can imagine them, you know. When is that new stadium? 2029?

SPEAKER_01

I don't know. I I hope I live that long.

SPEAKER_04

I I just yeah, I I don't know where that that's up in the air at this point. I mean, he's just too early to make it.

SPEAKER_01

Everybody seem I mean now we know Kelsey's thinking about retirement and he hasn't really said anything, right? You have your quarterback is having knee surgery. And you have a coach that by all accounts has kind of lost the stat. The team isn't as well rounded as it used to be. I mean, he got pummeled in the in the Super Bowl. He made no adjustments of any kind that I could see in the second half, which has always been his strength, is to come out in the second half with a brand new team.

SPEAKER_04

Yeah. I mean, I think they have a personnel issue. Um you know, not making excuses for any of them, but if there's one guy who already has a frame of reference for this situation, it's Andy Reid because look what happened to him in Philadelphia. And a lot of people said he can't win the big one, he can't do this, he can't do that. And we all, you know, knew he was gonna get a job again, and he went to Kansas City, and you think, well, they're kind of a you know, that franchise has been good, but not great. They couldn't win with Joe Montana, they couldn't win when they got, you know, Marty Schottenheimer was a great coach and all that stuff.

SPEAKER_01

Joe Montana and the running back, what's his name? Mo Jay's friend.

SPEAKER_04

Uh Allen, Marcus Allen. Was it Marcus Allen? Marcus Allen. And Marcus Allen. Yeah. I mean, that was probably the most star-studded backfield you could have at that time.

SPEAKER_00

Marcus Allen is in his day.

Ownership Meddling And Dallas Lessons

SPEAKER_04

Um, you know, if if they give me opportunity to for one last ride and it's a you know a plan to get into the new stadium, I have no problem with them opening the new stadium with Andy Reid as the head coach and bringing that franchise into a whole new city. It's not even like they're getting a new stadium, they're moving to an entirely different city. So you need that gravitas to pull people in because they're gonna want to see that. If they decide to go another route, you know, Patrick Mahomes is gonna be old enough where you question if this guy is still, and I'm not knocking him, I'm not saying he's diminished or anything like that. It's too early to make those predictions. I I think he'll be fine. But new stadium, new coach, new quarterback, you know, buzz, excitement. I mean, it's all part of the decision process. So you don't know how things are gonna play out. You know, you don't know who's gonna be available in the draft. You don't know what coaches are gonna be available if you're looking to replace your head coach. So right now I think they'll they'll they'll rally around him, they'll circle the wagons, they'll write the ship, whatever phrase you want to put on it, and move forward. But I I think we are, you know, nearing the end. Whereas just two years ago was oh, this is this is the next Tom Brady, this is the next Belichick, this is the next dynastic force in the NFL. That no one can beat them. Who can stop them? And it's it's it's it goes to show you how close you are, even as good as you are, to the end at any moment. And for whatever reason. You know, whether it's aging players or you know, coaches leaving the staff and coaching somewhere else. I know they brought back in Bianni for their offense. I would imagine he might get the the head coaching job if Andy Reed were to leave.

SPEAKER_00

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01

And I and I have to say, um, our friend out there that's with defensive uh coordinator hadn't really done a job the last two years. So what are you gonna do? Um I was just looking at Joe Montana, two seasons with the Chief, 93 and 94, Marcus Allen, and we forget somebody. Derek Thomas. Oh. Remember they were talking about him the next Lawrence Taylor, right? Monster. Neil Smith, defensive end. That's a crime would happen to them. Just shame. Yeah, JJ Burden, wide receiver, Kimball Anders, fullback, uh, future offensive lineman, Will Shields. Percy Snow was on that defense. Yeah. Um, Willie Rolfe, Dave Whitman, strong Ralph.

SPEAKER_04

I think he's a Hall of Famer. They were good. There was a there was a great Christian Okoye, I think, was in the mix there. Um I don't know. Was he still there when Montana came to Kansas City? Christian Okoya.

SPEAKER_01

I'm looking at 93 right now.

SPEAKER_04

So they had Barry Word in that backfield, but I think that was before.

SPEAKER_01

So the first year he was there, he went 11-5.

SPEAKER_04

Um, Marty was a good coach. Man, he was a good coach. He had the worst luck. He had the absolute worst luck. Oh man. They he should have gone to the Super Bowl with the Chargers. The Chargers are, I mean, oh, sickening. Sickening. They had the Patriots beat twice and blew it both times. I mean, literally handed it over on silver platter.

SPEAKER_01

I remember, I I, if I remember anything about the Chargers, it's those games that they had, I think it was with the Raiders, where they would just wear themselves out, and and players would like from the heat fall down and you'd give them oxygen, they'd carry them off the field, and then they'd throw them back out there.

SPEAKER_00

Yeah. Oh yeah. So yeah.

SPEAKER_04

Oh man, that Chargers, Patriots, you had the interception where they were not in field goal range. The guy intercepts the ball, Troy Brown tackles him, he fumbles, they pick up and recover the ball within field goal range, kick and win. Then the guy gets the first down that would have ended the game the following year, or was it the first year? Doesn't matter, and gets up untouched and does the whole point for the first down, drops the football. Wake up, dude. You're gonna you're playing a playoff game. Like, wake up. Patriots recover, march down the field, cook a field goal, game's over. Just like that. And they were good. They had that was a good, good football team.

SPEAKER_00

Yeah, well. Stranger things have happened. So what do you think? What's your feeling? You want to break down this game? Sure.

SPEAKER_04

Um so I I think I'll start on defense for both teams. Um you know, Seattle has um that number 27, Tariq uh Woolen, that can't keep his mouth shut. But he is a you know sizable cornerback that can shut down, you know, pretty much anybody. I don't know how they're gonna, I don't know if they're gonna put him on digs, if they're gonna move him around or try and just shut down one side of the field, but if he can keep his mouth shut and just play football, you know, it it'll be it'll be an interesting matchup to see them cat and mouse offensively Seattle against New England that way. Um, you know, they've they got speed on defense, Seattle, they're opportunistic on offense. Um, you know, New England is is kind of a a mirror image. Seattle's very well balanced. You know, um they've got a good lockdown corner in uh Christian Gonzalez. He plays really good in man. Um so he's gonna be locked up on Jackson Smith and Jigba, which I think will be that that matchup, I think, is going to determine the outcome of the game. Um, it's whether or not Seattle can find an opportunity somewhere along the way to get him the ball deep and open it up. Um I know the line is favoring Seattle. It's up to four and a half now, which is still, you know, in a Super Bowl, that's a lot of points. I always say seven is the magic number, but that's that's a lot of points. You got Sam Darnold, who is the veteran quarterback in this Super Bowl, who has shown composure. He's very efficient in the play action, but New England is pretty good reacting. Like they don't overreact to the play action. Right. Um Sam Darnold so far. This playoffs has protected the football pretty well. I mean, I don't think has he, I don't, has he has he not thrown an interception in this playoffs? Um, you know, and and to play into the receiver part of it, you know, they're they're pretty good at at attacking downfield outside the numbers, short game outside the numbers. Um and they can they can kind of will their their position on you on offense because they're big and they have a tough running back. Um whereas New England, you know, I know that Drake may, they were talking about maybe he has an injury. Uh I think that might have been what moved the line a little bit, but he does have armed talent, and he's been doing what the Patriots have done all season. Take what's a shoulder injury, right? It's a shoulder injury.

SPEAKER_01

But is it like non-throwing holder? Non-throwing shoulder?

Salary Caps, Brady, And Dynasty Math

SPEAKER_04

I'm not sure. No, I thought it was his throwing shoulder, but it didn't seem to bother, bother him in the last game. You know, that the Patriots can make plays in tight windows because of people like Stefan Diggs. Right. Um and Drake Mae, for what it's worth, he's he's fairly calm when things are falling apart. I know his vision is a little questionable because he doesn't take off running. He's he's a pocket passer first. He's not a run first quarterback at all. Um that gets him into a little trouble taking sacks and whatnot. But, you know, for the most part, the Patriots do a good job protecting him in the pocket. Right. And he's also comfortable attacking outside the numbers um in the short passing game. Um and he's he's got a he's got a knack for making like uh high percentage decisions. You know, he's not gonna put your offense in in jeopardy or or cost you field position. Um I think New England might have a higher ceiling, believe it or not, because they they can be a little scary because you don't expect them to have the most talent on the field, but the you know Seattle's so well balanced on offense that they're they're they're a safer floor pick, if you will. Right. Um you know, Seattle's balanced, they get yards after the catch. You know, they tend to control the tempo of the game. And of course, they have you know tremendous explosive play ability with Jackson Smith and their running back, who seemingly makes these big catches out of the backfield week in, week out in the playoffs. Um, you know, and then New England's gonna do what they do, they're gonna be efficient in the red zone, they're gonna take points when they're there. They're not gonna chase points. Um, they do a lot of motion pre-snap to try and figure out defensive positions. Um, and you know, I I don't want to say Seattle's so much more talented than New England, but if you had to pick one player on the field to be that guy, it's definitely Jackson Smith and Jigba. You know, um, neither quarterback really blows you away in the statistics department. Um neither does the run game. They're just consistent. Right.

SPEAKER_01

But I I would say that for New England to win, I think everything has to go right.

SPEAKER_04

And and it's I would say I would say 90% of everything has to go right. They're gonna need a break. They're gonna need somebody to make a mistake.

SPEAKER_01

And they seemingly always do this year. Yeah, I mean, everything has to go their way, whatever it is. And I and but on the flip side of that, we've seen Seattle come back like the Thursday night against the Rams. We've talked about it a hundred times, where they're down a ridiculous amount of points. They haven't played well in the first half at all, but somehow they flip a switch and go out there, and Sam Darnold picks up the team and carries them to the to the finish line. Yeah.

SPEAKER_00

Now, as hard as that to say out loud, it's absolutely true. For sure. So who knows? Who you betting? What are you betting?

SPEAKER_04

Well, it's hard to get away from Seattle all year. They they just keep winning, they come at you, they impose your will on you a little bit. You know, the Patriots they take what the defense gives them. The Patriots have had the easiest road to this Super Bowl, they've had the easiest strength to schedule. They got two gifts. The way the quarterback, one quarterback was out, one quarterback played like garbage. Um as we know, these games every week come down to the final two minutes and a special teams play here or there. And it's hard to get away from that, especially when you get points. So that coupled with Jet fans rooting for Sand Darnold and the Seahawks, I'm taking the Patriots and the four and a half points.

SPEAKER_01

Really?

SPEAKER_04

I think they're gonna be well prepared. It might be a three-quarter game and then they get blown out in the fourth quarter, but if they're in if they're in the game by a s a score, I I gotta go with New England. It's just it just seems like everything's going their way. A little gift here, a little gift there. And I think there's probably part of my brain that still thinks, you know, will the real Sam Darnold please stand up?

SPEAKER_00

But I'm I'm rooting for them, but I just my money's on the Patriots. Well my money's on Sam Darnold.

SPEAKER_01

I think I I really believe Seattle's gonna outmaneuver them. And I sure hope it doesn't come down to when they're on the two-yard line with a few minutes left and they decide to pass instead of run. But I mean there's a lot of.

SPEAKER_04

They won't make that mistake. They won't make that mistake again, but I can guarantee you that both those defenses will defenses will be well prepared for that situation.

SPEAKER_01

I mean it's crazy. You think about I you know, that's one of the things of all the Super Bowls, that's certainly something that sticks in my mind. The other would be Atlanta folding up and going home a quarter two early.

SPEAKER_04

I I I mean, that's what I mean about the Patriots. In every Super Bowl, something goes their way. That game was over. Run the football, kick the field goal, game's over. Especially after the tremendous catch that Julio Jones made. He played his sack off in that game. He was great.

Super Bowl Matchup: Seahawks vs Patriots

SPEAKER_01

I mean, I I'm not quite sure how they went back to Atlanta after that mess. I mean, it really was. It really I'm sorry, it just came up on my phone. Um it really was a total disaster. Uh and I I don't know what to say. I mean, it was really uh you play this whole year. And I and they re everything reminds me of the when the Giants used to go into a pre-vent defense. You know, here it is. Years ago, remember? They would play and they'd play really well. Yep.

SPEAKER_04

And then all the weeks over the middle for five or fifteen yards.

SPEAKER_01

They go into this pre-vent, and and you know that oh, we're gonna give a little bit, but we're not gonna give up touchdown. Well the team marches down the scared the team marches down the field, and then they figure out how to beat you.

SPEAKER_00

Well, I don't know what to say, but that's what it is. Um so next week we'll talk about the Super Bowl.

SPEAKER_01

Uh we'll certainly um start moving on to other things. I know we haven't talked much about the Rangers uh folding up their tents and going back to wherever it is they they go. Uh it's one of the worst Ranger teams I I can remember.

SPEAKER_04

Chris Drury has absolutely ruined, you know, him and and and James Dolan working together is an atrocity. And it if you don't, if you can't see it, then you're not paying attention. It's it's just that simple. And they're not doing anything to get it. They traded away two good players, heart and soul guys, and they're trying to tell you that we're looking forward to the future, and we're doing, and they are lost. Absolutely lost.

SPEAKER_01

So lost. And I can't even talk about they stole my head coach.

SPEAKER_04

They got a good head coach from the Penguins. They they brought that guy in, and he is a good coach, on top of being a good person. And I maybe he has a relationship with Drew, uh, that I don't know. But Drew is is not is not the guy. I know he's a former player and an all-star and a Stanley Cup winner and blah, blah. Not a general manager. He's just not. That's not opinion, that's fact. And the Rangers are gonna suffer as long as he's there. Unless they go on a spending spree, which you can't do, and and find talent where nobody else can find it, to come in and replace what they lost and take, get them over the hump. It's just it's not gonna happen. It's just not gonna happen. And it's a shame because in hockey, it's hard, it's hard to fix that. It's hard to replace talent. It's hard to find guys that have work ethic. It's not an easy sport to play. It is a grueling sport.

SPEAKER_01

And you have to have a mesh and people have to get along and and you know, people have to protect each other. It's just a whole different the the the team part of it is beyond anything else. It's not, it's it's not like football where you say just do your job. I mean, there's so many aspects to it that in hockey it's it's there's an emotional factor to it where guys react to other guys and the way they play.

SPEAKER_04

If one guy's not given effort, that can drag the whole team down. Whereas, and that's the Rangers. Whereas they don't have a guy that'll call somebody out in the locker room like they did when they had Messier, who ironically is is in Dolan's ear also, uh, that holds people accountable. And when management decides that the guy that works the hardest is the first guy to get traded because they don't want to pay him or they don't want him making himself better off because analytics tells you, ah, you don't need to practice. I I it's it's hard to watch if you're if you're a Rangers fan, because there's no excuse for it. You play in the garden, you have an owner with the deep pockets, and you're making decisions about players based on shaving a couple shackles off the price tag because the analytics said that this guy's faster defenseman or has a higher skate speed or uh, you know, uh quicker slap shot or whatever the case may be. I just eyeball test. Is the guy a player? Is the guy working hard? Is the guy in the locker room? Is he in the weight room? Is he working off ice when we're not practicing? And they got rid of two guys like that, and they're gonna get rid of two more guys, most likely, at the trade deadline, and they're gonna be worse for the wear.

SPEAKER_01

Yeah, and we'll, you know, besides looking at hockey, talking about we're gonna be diving more into obviously into more before pitchers and catchers, that is. Um, we're gonna start diving more into the NBA, of course. You know, the trade deadline is just a few days away. Today's the second, it's the fifth. Um there's the the Giannis sweeps down.

SPEAKER_04

Giannis that that's an interesting one because I know right now the fodder is about Mikhail Bridges and whether or not the Knicks are gonna trade him, who was a big piece for them last year, and they expected him to be a big piece on this particular team. But I would imagine if you know, I I mean, I don't know what Giannis's injury is, if it's if it's really bad. I know he, you know, he's doing everything he can to s to to give that organization a fair chance to build a winner, right? But they don't seem to be on the same page.

SPEAKER_01

That being said, if they They played pretty well without him, though, which is kind of weird.

SPEAKER_04

They did, yeah, they did. Sometimes listen, sometimes that happens, especially in basketball, because you you carry so much weight that it it not that it drags you down, but it it takes away from other guys and their game. So if the pieces don't fit, they play better without you because they have to.

SPEAKER_01

Right.

SPEAKER_04

So I you know, and I don't I I would love to have him on the Knicks. I mean, that'd be great for New York and the garden and everything else.

SPEAKER_01

That's part of the things, you know, the the rumors get out there on towns and stuff that you know he's lost a little heart in the game because, you know, there are rumors out there that they're trading him.

SPEAKER_04

I yeah, I I think it's his personality that just doesn't actually do what people thought he was.

SPEAKER_01

There's also rumors out there that LA may trade Anthony Davis. Now I'd hate to see him end up on the Knicks. I mean, I could just see those guys do that. I really could. And give away somebody good. I mean, I mean, Dallas is, you know, they're weighed down with his contract. He really doesn't play well. Uh the other's Johnthony Cummings, Switch Golden State. Um, Michael Porter Jr. at Brooklyn, Jay Morant.

SPEAKER_04

Uh John Morant's interesting because he's a very talented player and he doesn't have to be the guy. Um, but who do you mean? I mean, that's that's where's he a Memphis, right? The Knicks have a good nucleus, right? I mean, I know when they traded, was it Dante DiVincenzo? A lot of people were heartbroken because he fits so well with that, and they had that core group.

SPEAKER_01

Well, they all came from Villanova together.

SPEAKER_04

I was gonna say they had the core group of Villanova guys, and you wanted to kind of see how that would play out. Um, but the Knicks always, you know, they're always a piece short or they have a log jam somewhere, and they can't ever seem to get past it. Everybody else can see it, but it's like they can't see it. So I don't know. I I if the if they can figure out the Mikhail Bridges thing, I know they made some transition on defense the last week or so. They they switched something around. Um and I I think they're a good team. I I think they have a good nucleus. I mean, between Brunson and Hart, those two guys are they're good friends and they're they play well together. They're clearly, you know, the heart and soul of the team. Um and everything kind of goes through them as you know, the Knicks go as they go. But they they still, and I'm not knocking Brunson or any of those guys, they still need a guy. Towns is not that guy. And they need a complimentary player that can kind of galvanize them and fill a hole that that seems to always exist in their roster and they haven't found it yet.

SPEAKER_01

I mean, there's some rumors that Zion Williams may be traded, but the team is maintaining that they're not looking to do that, even though he's not paying well. But I mean, we've heard all those things before.

SPEAKER_04

Yeah, we're not looking to trade, and then the guy gets traded. Or they're looking to trade, looking to trade, and then the guy goes nowhere. So the NBA is weird that way because of the the structure of the soft cap or whatever they have going on there. So you know the money has to even out and all that.

SPEAKER_01

And the Knicks are saying they're not aggressively seeking out trades. So the hell knows. It's a big game. Yeah.

Betting Angles And Late-Game Swings

SPEAKER_04

And I think the players still control a lot of it. Not necessarily to the extent of the super teams, but who knows? You know, it's the NBA. It it seems like the teams that want what they want always get what they want, i.e. the Lakers. Yeah. Um, and who knows where Golden State is at? Because, you know, seemingly they're they're really only one player away from you know getting back to prominence, even though the record is indicates otherwise. One one player makes a huge difference in basketball. So your record is kind of irrelevant before the trade deadline. So we'll see how it shakes out.

SPEAKER_01

I agree. So having said all that, um hockey.

SPEAKER_04

We'll talk with uh I reached out to Alex Lyon, the uh goalie for the uh Sabres, uh who's on an incredible hot streak coming off injury.

SPEAKER_01

Absolutely.

SPEAKER_04

Everybody admits to the last team. Oh my god, right? Yeah. Good for him. So I'm I'm hoping that we'll get to speak to him during the break. Um and we have to do it with an all-star game, so I you know I don't know how that's gonna work out.

SPEAKER_01

But I mean, we can always do an interview and then just add it in later on. Doesn't have to be live, so we can always do that. Whatever works for him, we'll make ourselves available or however that works. Um but Sabres played tonight at seven, actually.

SPEAKER_04

So I want to put that on.

SPEAKER_01

Take a gander. So here we go. I am gonna take Seattle with the points. You give him the four and a half? Giving the four and a half. I'll take it. All right, we'll see. We'll see. So everyone, thanks for listening again. Always a pleasure. Always a pleasure, Steve. Thank you very much. Thank you for having me. We'll see you next week when we have a new Super Bowl champion that isn't Mahomes, Brady, or anyone else with the names that we've heard.

SPEAKER_03

Usual suspects. Usual suspects, unusual suspects this week.

SPEAKER_01

Thanks again. We'll see you all next week. Like and subscribe. Thank you again. Have a good night, good night.