Sports Live! With Steve and Justin

We Predict The NFL Draft Picks That Will Backfire

• Steve and Justin

Share episode

Use Left/Right to seek, Home/End to jump to start or end. Hold shift to jump forward or backward.

0:00 | 1:09:35

The Mets drop 11 straight and we can’t pretend it’s just “April baseball.” We talk through what a true freefall looks like, why a single missing player doesn’t excuse a collapse, and how front-office decisions echo in the standings and the stands. We also hit the Yankees from the other angle: close losses, late-inning questions, and the kind of warning signs that don’t show up in highlight reels but absolutely matter over a season.

Then we turn the page to a full NFL Draft preview with a New York focus. We break down what the Jets should do at No. 2, what the Giants can build with picks 5 and 10, and why reaching for the wrong “perfect on paper” prospect can set a franchise back fast. We also get into the weird new draft era shaped by NIL and the transfer portal, where older prospects and fractured college careers make scouting harder and rumor-driven posturing louder. Quarterback talk gets real as we debate Fernando Mendoza, Ty Simpson, and what separates a true top pick from the rest of a class that might fall off quickly.

The back half goes wide, into NBA history and sports leadership. Jerry West becomes the anchor for a conversation about obsession, standards, and talent evaluation, with side roads into David Stern, Michael Jordan’s legacy, the Lakers sale price, and why the LeBron James all-time argument still splits fans. If you like sports debate with receipts, this one covers a lot of ground.

Subscribe for next week’s draft hangover, share this with your most stubborn sports friend, and leave a review with your hottest take: which team is about to regret its first-round pick?

Welcome And Mets Misery

SPEAKER_02

Hello, everyone, and welcome back to Sports Live with Steven Justin. It's a crazy week. It's been, you know, if you like to if you hate the Mets, you like some people we know do. You had a great time watching them lose. Doesn't matter what day you tuned in, because they lost 11 times in a row. That's the team for you. And they say, oh, it's because we don't have Soto. One player, you lose 11 games. You can't win one. But anyway, we're going to talk about the NFL draft. We're going to talk about how the Jets are going to pick the wrong player and he's going to get hurt in the first game. And that's it is sports live with Steve and Justin. How the hell are you, Justin? I'm all right, Steve. How are you feeling? I'm all right. I think I'm a uh I see one person watching us. I can't see everybody. I can see there is something I could I I have, I just don't know what I did with it. So you can go on to YouTube and see every person that's watching you and who they are. But I'm guessing that's your mom because she's the only one that listens to us.

SPEAKER_01

It's either mom or Dom.

SPEAKER_02

So there you have it. There it is. Uh you know, I I hate to get into it about the Mets, but boy, you can't lose. You can't lose 11 games in a row and not expect to get fired.

SPEAKER_01

Yeah, I would say that, you know, under normal circumstances previously, that 11 games is unsustainable for a manager, and it wouldn't be the first time that that's happened, unbelievably, in Mets history. The last time that happened, they fired, I think it was Art Howe back in 2000. But if you practice, you know, keep your head when everybody else is losing theirs. The Mets are, after losing 11 games in a row, a game and a half behind the Philadelphia Phillies. And they're not playing with a full compliment, as you alluded to before. But one player shouldn't make that that much of a difference. Uh and it's only April. So yeah, you gotta circle the wagons. You know, you have to have some sort of team meeting, or maybe you need to get away from the ballpark. Maybe on your day off you take the team, you know, bowling or out drinking or to the movies, do something non-baseball related, take your minds off it or whatever. But certainly the Mets are in the throes of a collapse, and it's only April, which is incredibly uh it's unbelievable. But given the playoff format where seemingly everybody makes the playoffs now, you know, their season won't be over until you know August at best, even if they continue along this way.

SPEAKER_02

So well the Yankees are 13 and 9, so you can't really complain. They're not the best in baseball, but the Guardians are, and the Guardians are very good.

Why The Mets Look Broken

SPEAKER_01

Yeah, if you've been watching the Yankees, the Yankees had a losing streak. I think they lost five games in a row by one run. And to me, that's a you know, that's a that's a red flag. You know, team loses 11 games in a row, it's you know, you can't ignore it, but to lose five one-run games in a row, championship teams don't win the championships, championship teams don't lose five one-run games in a row. They win four or five of those games. So if you're a Yankee fan and you're looking for something to, you know, point at that makes you think your team is coming along the way you thought it would, I don't feel pretty, you know, confident in the Yankees right now. They don't have a closer.

SPEAKER_02

So here's so do the Mets have the worst? Uh no. Royals are 17 and 15, Astros are 8 and 15, Mets are 7 and 15, they're 0-10. I think they're 0-11, but 0-10. They're 3-6 at home, 4-9 away. They've lost 15 games out of the first 22.

SPEAKER_01

Not good.

SPEAKER_02

Not good. Not a good start at all. So they're eight games out of first place in April. Eight games out of first place when they only played 20.

SPEAKER_03

Not good. Not good. They're the worst, worst in National League.

SPEAKER_02

A 318 winning percentage.

SPEAKER_01

You have to look at who they got rid of and who they brought in. And I just don't think that there's equal value on the field right now that there would have been if they re-signed Pete Alonzo, kept Jeff McNeil, and had Nimo in center field. Now, a lot of Met fans disagree. Come on, could care less. They got Bo Bouchette. You can't you can't lose a guy like Pete Alonzo and think that your team is, you know, this isn't, you know, that scene in Moneyball. Oh, how do we replace Xiami? Pete Alonzo had the second most home runs behind Aaron Judge the last five years. My math is correct, or whatever the time frame. He's he's the most prolific home run painter in the National League. So, you know, you let that guy just walk. And it's a franchise problem, right? This is a face of the franchise issue. This is systemic with the Mets. Going all the way back to guys like Noel Ryan and Tom Seaver, right? You're you're constantly you were supposed to write that ship if you were Steve Cohen. You came in talking a big game, we're gonna win a championship in five years. We're not the same old Mets, it's not gonna be as it used to be. Well, it sure looks like it, and it's beyond five years. You didn't win a championship, you're heading into a work stoppage, and what do you have to show for it? You know, I I think they fumbled here. I really do. And you know, this year looks like it's gonna get away from them early. And when you get rid of Clubhouse franchise guys like Pete Alonzo, and you follow that with McNeil and Nemo, lifelong Mets, it's starting to look like it it it's you know the same old Mets.

SPEAKER_02

You know what the Mets forgot?

SPEAKER_00

Baseball. Baseball, baseball, baseball, baseball, baseball.

SPEAKER_02

They forgot about it. It's baseball.

SPEAKER_00

Baseball, baseball, baseball, baseball, baseball, baseball, baseball, baseball, baseball, baseball, baseball, baseball, baseball.

SPEAKER_02

I can't resist that thing.

SPEAKER_01

They certainly forgot, that's for sure.

SPEAKER_02

I agree. And you know, everybody else who cares. You know, I mean, that's the really the team that's self-destruct.

SPEAKER_01

Well, they had, you know, Alonzo's the biggest name, I I think, out there that got away from a team this year. So it's it's a major talking point. And you let him get away for nothing. You have you got absolutely nothing in return for that. You know, if you told me, hey, we're gonna trade Pete for this X player, whatever, you know, whoever that player is, because this guy is great at XYZ, and Pete is good at this, but this guy, you know, we can replace him with this one guy. Well, all right, maybe you make a blockbuster trade and you get somebody back and you say, hey, we got younger or we got more experience, or it was a clubhouse issue, and we needed somebody to fit better with the team.

SPEAKER_02

It's the opposite. He was the great guy in the clubhouse.

SPEAKER_01

He was.

SPEAKER_02

He absolutely was. And then and they they sh and it and it was ridiculous. He was the heart and soul. He put fannies in the seats. People came to see him. I think people didn't buy tickets because Alonzo's not there anymore.

SPEAKER_01

Yeah, there's got to be some that are have had enough. I can imagine. You know, franchise player like that is what people come to see. I mean, it would be the equivalent of the of the it would have been the same thing had the Yankees let Judge sign with San Francisco two years ago, and you come back with what? On top of him going, you traded McNeil, you traded Nimo. So if you were the Yankees, it would have been the equivalent of equivalent of, you know, trading uh I mean who's there, you know, you know, franchise players that grew up with the team.

SPEAKER_02

So you would you expect it you expect it from the Yankees. You don't expect it from the Mets.

SPEAKER_01

So I think there's more to it that I we probably don't want to get into, but that locker room is a disaster right now. You know, I know no, Lind Dore got hurt, broke his thumb in the spring, maybe he came back too hurt uh too soon, but uh he's not right. He's not hitting. He's got one RBI, came off a home run. Um and that was just last week. So, you know, we're rapidly approaching May, and if he's hurt and needs to go on the DL or he needs some time, you know, to heal more, you know, Soto's gonna come back. Then do you have to juggle? Does Soto come back? Do you put Lindor on the on the IL, whatever they call it now? Um, you know, then you're gonna roll into May without Lindor, who typically is a slow starter, but this is beyond slow.

Yankees Red Flags And Bullpen Worries

SPEAKER_02

And that was as my friend Laurie from high school just put on Facebook, she said the Mets come up with another way to lose a game. Now it's 11. So there you go. But anyway, baseball's just getting going. It's hard really to get into it this early. It's not very warm, it's not very warm out. You know, you don't even know the players anymore, you know. You're not don't know how good they are, who's good, who's bad. You know, some teams seem to be the same all the time, and others don't. And we seem to have the local ones that never do. So excuse me. So the big thing that's rolling our way, I don't know in how many days, is the NFL draft, right? Starts Thursday. Thursday night. Thursday night. So um a lot of movement. I mean, the Giants really made a big move. Um, they took a really good player who didn't really have that good of a year last year. He only had a half a sack here before he was trying to break the record or whatever it was, but he never was able to do it. Last year he had like a half a sack. You know, he had his guaranteed money was up on his contract. He was gonna get$21 million this year, and he wanted to redo his contract with two years. I think two years, I think it was a four-year deal. He had two left. Is that right? Do you know, Justin?

SPEAKER_01

Um how many years left on his contract?

SPEAKER_02

Yeah, I think it was two. And but no more guaranteed money.

SPEAKER_01

No more guaranteed money. I don't remember the terms. I think it might have been two years.

SPEAKER_02

Yep. So you you think about that, he's like, what kind of shit is that? I ain't I ain't doing that. I need some I need some guaranteed money. I could get hurt, I play with records abandonment.

SPEAKER_01

And he was the most effective player at his position the last five seasons. Um, you know, he had more quarterback pressures by more than double over the next player at his position. Um and, you know, last year, you know, was last year an anomaly? I I think it was because they were just so bad. And is it because he was last year was on the quarterback?

SPEAKER_02

Or was it because he was miserable that he didn't get a new contract and he was gonna run out of his guaranteed money?

SPEAKER_01

Yeah, I mean, that's the business, right? You you get guaranteed money, you sign for an extended period, and once that guaranteed money runs out, it's no secret, they're gonna ask for a new contract, and I don't think it's out of the realm for him to ask to be the highest paid player at his position.

SPEAKER_02

He was. He was the second highest paid, now he's the 13th.

SPEAKER_01

Right. So sorry. The Giants allowed this to happen, and you know, it's just another pock mark on Shane's record, as far as I'm concerned.

SPEAKER_02

Because excuse me.

SPEAKER_01

I think it, you know, any everybody wants to win at the end of the day, right? I know these players try to get the most money, and they listen, they deserve to get the money. They gotta they get what they can get. So if someone's willing to pay, great. I don't hold it against but the Giants, it's like they didn't see that coming. And I know that they got picks back. I know they got the number 10 picks, and now they have five and ten. Could they trade up again? Because they trade those picks for next year's picks. You know, there's a lot of flexibility there. Um, I think this guarantees some other players on that defense staying rather than being traditional to do.

SPEAKER_02

Let's talk about those picks. So, overall, number one, we know Las Vegas Raiders are going to Fernando Mendoza, right?

SPEAKER_03

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02

I mean, I think there's some hype out there that he's not, you know, he's not as good as they say he is, which who knows? I mean, who knows? When you get to the NFL, who knows? But I I think he's a solid.

SPEAKER_01

You better know. Somebody in your organization may be a good thing.

SPEAKER_02

Not the quarterbacks, you never know.

SPEAKER_01

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02

Um there, you know, and the tale that's being spun out there right now is that um Ty, what's his name? Samson. Yeah. I definitely should have put a cough drop in my mouth before I sat down. You know, um that I don't I don't even see him on this list. I figured he'd go to Pittsburgh, but they don't have him there.

SPEAKER_01

This draft is shaping up to be a dud, to be honest with you. That's my opinion.

SPEAKER_02

Well, I think I I think that's because there's the reason it's being a dud is that there's not a lot of things to play around with.

SPEAKER_01

There's also, you know, something else happening in this draft, and this is probably like the beginning of a different era where players are a little older than they have been in the past because of the NIL and because of all the COVID restrictions and guys having six, seven, eight, nine years of eligibility, et cetera, et cetera. So, you know, that's gotta come to an end. Yeah, but I think that is playing a part right now. It will for the next couple of years. Um, I don't know where that stops. I don't know if it stops at all. Because players are not gonna give up entering the portal and transferring.

SPEAKER_02

Let's go through it now. So, number two is the Jets. I mean, we could go through a million things the Jets need. They need a quarterback.

SPEAKER_01

They need a quarterback. But they can ill afford to take a flyer on a quarterback when they have multiple spots, including edge pass rusher, and there's a few available in this draft. You know, they need to fill.

SPEAKER_02

Yeah, but it's gonna be if it's not Reese, Arvell Reese, everybody's gonna just roll their eyes. Here we go again.

SPEAKER_01

Well, you know, he's really out there. Yeah, a month ago it was Bailey, and then then it was Arvell Reese, you know, uh I think Bain from Miami, right? Another one out there. But now this week, I've heard Sonny Styles as high as two for the Jets, and that's a little scary.

SPEAKER_02

Well, I I think Sonny Styles is gonna go to the Giants at five.

SPEAKER_01

I still think that's too high for him. I think both teams would be making a mistake. He looks great on paper. Yeah, I looks like the most thing, the most glaring thing that stands out about him is he didn't miss a tackle, apparently, this past season at Ohio State.

SPEAKER_02

And he's a middle linebacker, and we know Harbaugh likes a nice big, crazy middle linebacker.

SPEAKER_01

Yeah, he's in between, right? He's in between the safety and linebacker uh frame for, you know, he fits the mold for new linebackers today that have to cover tight ends and all that stuff. But if you're taking somebody at that position that high, you better be taking Ray Lewis. You better be taking Bro Erlacher. And I don't think Sonny Styles is that guy. Is he smart? Extremely smart. Is he well prepared? He better be. He came from Ohio State, so presumably, yes. But if you watch the film and you watch down after down, you know, he's not a guy that uses his body to tackle. There are some red flags that make me think he should go a little further down. You take him at number two, he's gonna be the captain of your defense. You take him at number five and plug him in, he's I would think, is gonna be the captain of your defense. And you just traded away the main cog in your defense.

SPEAKER_02

Well, you really want to know, you really want to know who I think the best player at this part of the draft is, and you're gonna laugh. I think Jeremiah Love is.

SPEAKER_03

I am gonna laugh.

SPEAKER_01

Well, that says all you need to know about this this draft class, then. If you're ranking a number pack, uh if you're ranking a running back uh number two overall, I would say that that's a problem.

SPEAKER_02

I no, I think that I think the Jets should take Avril Reese. Uh, and the Cardinals are probably gonna take, you know, they they got issues over there. They need an offensive tackle or you know, Francis Maragua or whatever is.

SPEAKER_01

If you're one player short and you're you know you need to fill one or two positions, and that position is running back, fine, take Jeremiah Love.

SPEAKER_02

I don't have problems. I don't think the Jets should take him. I think they should take either either either Reese or Bailey. I mean they're gonna have to. They're gonna go, and they're both gonna go in the top five.

SPEAKER_01

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02

And then so those are the edge rusters. You know, one's from Texas Tech. I'm sure we've if you watch college football, you've seen them all. And Reese's from Ohio State. Now there's some great offensive tackles out there. So, you know, they they're in Arizona, who's a third pick, you know, they got their quarterback back.

SPEAKER_03

So they didn't.

SPEAKER_02

They traded him, didn't they? They traded Kyler Murray to Yeah, but who they got now? Nobody?

SPEAKER_03

Hold on, I got it. I got it right here.

SPEAKER_01

I want to say Kirk Cousins, but he went to uh Oh Cousins went to uh Las Vegas. He went to the Vegas, yeah, Vegas Raiders.

SPEAKER_02

Which is a good place for him. He'll get to play another year.

SPEAKER_01

He'll play and and you know, he'll mentor presumably he'll mentor uh Mendoza. Which I think that's great.

NFL Draft Week Sets Up

SPEAKER_03

You know, I think that's good for both of them. Oh, that's right. They got Gardner Minshew Jacoby Brassett and and Gardner Minshew. One's thirty-three, one's twenty-nine. Brasette's six four in C State Yeah, I was kinda hoping that the that he would end up somewhere else, but it is what it is.

SPEAKER_01

They have a lot of talent on that offense and he should be he should have a chance to excel.

SPEAKER_02

So And the only way to do that is with great line. I I think they're gonna take a tackle. I think they have to build that team and hope that you know one of these guys rise to the city.

SPEAKER_01

They might take Jeremiah. They had a lot of issues at running back last year. They would, you know, they they had a kind of a carousel going on.

SPEAKER_02

So let me tell you, if they did that, that would throw the whole thing into a turmoil. Yeah. I think the Titans will take uh, so that's third pick. The Titans, I think, will uh take whatever whoever's left over from Bailey or Reese.

SPEAKER_01

Yeah, they need an edge rusher. And they're they've got Sayla and they've got, yeah, I I I think you're right.

SPEAKER_02

So you go to the Giants. You know, you hear that um my friend just texts me. She goes, I tried to watch you guys. You're just so boring. I can't take it.

SPEAKER_01

Fair enough. Um tune in next week. Make sure you like and subscribe.

SPEAKER_03

You still sound like you're sick though. Thank you.

SPEAKER_02

How do you think we feel about it? Um the uh so that leaves the Giants at five. You know, is it Sonny Styles? You hear Harbaugh's really high on him. Is it Jeremiah Love?

SPEAKER_01

I don't think they should take Jeremiah Love, and if they do, I think that's another red flag. But I I don't expect uh Scatterbow to be their main offensive weapon but in the backfield.

SPEAKER_02

We don't even know how we don't even know how he can play. It's right.

Giants Trade And Contract Fallout

SPEAKER_01

So if they take Jeremiah Love, then no one tells you they need to know anything about it. Nothing. You know, I think the Giants need more help than that. Um I think they can find a running back somewhere, but you know, they have they have other positions they need to go after. You know, they need an offensive lineman, they need a wide receiver. I tell you who I wouldn't mind them taking there, and I know it's high, is the safety from Ohio State. That guy can tackle.

SPEAKER_02

Caleb Downs.

SPEAKER_01

That guy's not afraid to stick his nose in there.

SPEAKER_02

Well, they they say they're gonna they're gonna pick him at 10.

SPEAKER_01

That would be a great pick. If he gets there, that would be a great pick for them.

SPEAKER_02

I mean, you gotta figure Kansas City's out how they're gonna take an edge, which I think they're gonna take an edge. Or oh, I'm sorry, I jumped ahead. So your Giants, you got the Browns. What is the Browns?

SPEAKER_01

The Browns are hopeless.

SPEAKER_02

The Browns are gonna take whoever's gonna sell the most jerseys. There's a wide receiver out there from Ohio State, Tate. Really good. And they say the commanders want Jeremiah Love.

SPEAKER_03

They're number seven. I don't know.

SPEAKER_01

Yeah, I I what you have to look to see where this stuff comes out from because a lot of it is fodder for other teams to chew on. You'll see teams get paired with a player, and then all of a sudden somebody moves up in the draft to take that player. So it was all a wash because it was just posturing by that team.

SPEAKER_02

New Orleans, you know, you see a lot of names thrown around at the eighth pick. More so Deline was the guy from LSU.

SPEAKER_03

He's a cornerback. You know. I don't know, these teams need so much w help.

SPEAKER_02

You know, the Saints being one of them.

SPEAKER_03

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02

Kansas City, I mean, they're talking so Kansas City is it numb?

SPEAKER_01

They need a running back too.

SPEAKER_02

They need a running back, they need some help on the offensive line. Um they're looking at you here, they're looking at an edge guy, Bain, from Miami.

SPEAKER_03

But I don't know, I I think they need deep defensive help as well.

SPEAKER_01

Two years ago they go to the NFC Championship game. This year it was a complete wash. They took a complete nosedive after that Chicago game, and you know, they're looking to rebound. You know, they're gonna get the quarterback play that they got two years ago, or they're gonna get, you know, there's a lot there. They need to solidify at least one side of the football before they can move forward. So, you know, to me it's always about protecting your quarterback and having a run game and then going and getting defensive help.

SPEAKER_02

Yeah, so you see, you know, that the Giants may be looking at Caleb Downs for their second pick there in the top ten.

SPEAKER_01

If he's there, they have to take him. I I just I don't I don't see who else could be there unless you told me that they got two edge rushers, that's one at five and one at ten, because both fell and they come back from both ends with edge rushers. I I don't, you know, I they need a wide receiver, but you can't force a square peg in a round hole. You have a talented wide receiver on the roster, and I know they made room with that trade.

SPEAKER_02

Um that was a great trade. I think that was a great trade.

SPEAKER_01

They need they need help. They need help. They have four or five positions that they need to lock in, and one of them being First of all, the trade allows them to trade allows them to get younger, right?

SPEAKER_02

And cheaper. And cheaper. And cheaper. So you're building a team, you don't know, you don't know what these young guys that you have that you're putting your faith in are gonna have. What what are they gonna do?

SPEAKER_01

You better have somebody in the building that can tell you whether or not those guys are who they say they are, or you think they are, because if you don't have anybody to evaluate the talent, then why do you spend money? Well, well, what about scamaboo? I mean, you know, I think the book is is still out on both those players. Absolutely.

SPEAKER_02

I'm not saying you got to give up on either one of them, but so at least if you didn't spend if you kept your defensive player and he has another the other half of that sack next year and you gave him forty million dollars, you have nothing to do. You draft a young player and you're wrong. You know, at least you're not bound into the salary cap.

SPEAKER_01

They made room, but also, you know, I mean, Dallas still has room, so they're competing against, you know, Dallas for you know, some of the same players.

SPEAKER_02

Yeah, Dallas is looking at a safety or somebody.

SPEAKER_01

So they gotta get, you know, they put themselves in a position to make Dallas make a move. But, you know, again, I'm not a believer in Joe Shane. So Dallas has made some incredible moves, and they've I know that they've traded away some incredible talent, but for what it's worth, you know, they're they have money to spend, they have good players coming in. You know they're gonna make another move. It's Jerry. You know, we'll see where they sit, depending on how good the Eagles are this year, and if Washington can rebound. But, you know, Giants need a lot of help. Are there games they can win out there that they didn't win last year because of coaching? Maybe, you know, maybe Harbaugh makes that difference, but I I think I think the NFC East is is as competitive as ever right now, considering what's out there and what's it's funny.

SPEAKER_02

I'm looking at this, I was looking at a bunch of different picks. I'm looking at this ESPN one, and um they have Ty Simpson to go 34th, second pick in the second round to Arizona. Arizona gets him. That's a pretty good one.

SPEAKER_01

That's where you take that's right. That's where you take him. You know, I still think it's a reach, but depending on what other talent there is in this draft and what else they need, that's where you take a guy like that.

SPEAKER_02

The Patriots, if they get an edge, a really good edge, they're gonna be tough. No one knows what Kansas City's gonna be. No one knows.

SPEAKER_01

Kansas City knows what they're gonna be. Nobody else knows. That's what makes them so good.

SPEAKER_02

I mean, you know, you look at other teams, Miami, who cares what they take? They need a million dollars.

SPEAKER_01

I think Kansas City is gonna do one of two things. Pending the talent available to them in this draft, they take somebody that can make a difference right away, that can help protect their quarterback coming off injury, or they go defense because they need a lot of help on defense. If they can get a player that makes a difference right away, or somebody who may be a project, short-term project that they can develop and keep over time. I'm sure they're I'm sure they're farther ahead than most teams in the draft process.

SPEAKER_02

I think if Ty Simpson goes early, everybody's gonna. It's the only thing to watch on this entire draft is where Ty Simpson goes. And maybe Jeremiah Love.

Jets At Two And Need List

SPEAKER_01

Yeah, I think that's important. I think that's that's something to watch. They're talking about the backup from Notre Dame, the running back. I forgot his name. Oh he's second strength to love. He's talented too. I just I'm not a believer. That's all. And it's not my Notre Dame bias or hatred thereof is has nothing to do with it. I just think about running backs, does Jeremiah love, does his highlight reel show evidence that he's Saquon Barkley or Ladanian Tomlinson or one of these featured backs that we've seen in the last 15-20 years that was a great talent, can't miss number one overall pick. I'm not seeing it. I just that means that everything I've said about Notre Dame and their offensive line, and they're not any good. They don't play in a conference block. It was all true.

SPEAKER_03

What about Ty Simpson? What do you think about him?

SPEAKER_01

He's short. He's diminutive, right? For a quarterback. 6'2.

SPEAKER_02

Short. What do you think about this guy to play in the NFL? He's short.

SPEAKER_01

Well, it's not a prototypical, you know, NFL quarterback by most guru standards, if you will. You know, guys want players that are four, six, five, six, three seems to be the cutoff. He's 6'2. You know, can he see over the offensive line? Can he make throws over the middle of the field? You know, most of these guys now, the way they work out and train, they can make those throws to the outside. Can he throw the ball downfield? But can he hit tight ends and backs over the middle? Can he see the middle of the field? That's where you make your money. So, you know, if they see that, he can do that. Okay.

SPEAKER_02

So it's funny. It's funny.

SPEAKER_01

What makes him but the team you mentioned, too, who did you mention that had had him locked in? Arizona, and who else?

SPEAKER_02

Uh, Pittsburgh.

SPEAKER_01

Well, Pittsburgh, we don't know if they have a quarterback yet or not, but presumably those teams have quarterbacks.

SPEAKER_02

So look at here's his 2025 stats. He has 3,567 yards, which is 11th.

SPEAKER_01

In in NCAA for the year?

SPEAKER_02

Yeah. He has 28 TDs, which is 12th. Here is interceptions. QBR 76.

SPEAKER_03

20th. Yeah. I'm not I'm not exactly excited about that.

SPEAKER_02

Oh, let me go see, you know, God's gift what he has. Fernando Mendoza.

SPEAKER_01

I know a lot of people talked about Alabama having concentration issues, and there were a lot of drop passes, and running was incorrect and all that stuff, but with who? With Alabama. It's just that Ty Simpson didn't have there wasn't a lot of talent on that team, or there was, and they let him down. They just dropped the ball a lot.

SPEAKER_02

Here's Fernando Mendoza. He's 6'5, 225. Big. His yards were 35-35. He was 15th. It's about the same yards as Ty. TDs.

SPEAKER_01

He's in the Big Ten.

SPEAKER_02

TDs?

SPEAKER_01

They don't conservative and they don't throw the ball a lot. TDs? 41, number one. It's pretty efficient.

SPEAKER_02

Interception, six.

SPEAKER_01

He had less than 10, yes. Ty for 20.

SPEAKER_02

QBR, 90.3.

SPEAKER_01

I thought it was first. But that's, you know, that's where you want to. So first. That's where you want your first round draft to b to be. Look, if the Raiders don't take Mendoza, then nobody should take him. Okay? Because that's you're talking about Tom Brady, the team that needs a quarterback. He's everything that they want on paper. So if the Raiders call, hey, we're looking to trade the number one pick, you better put the brakes on because they're going to want to boatload. And if somebody gives it to them, even if it was the Jets trading up from two to one, if the Raiders are willing to trade that pick, man, you better think twice. Now.

SPEAKER_02

You remember draft day.

SPEAKER_01

Does that mean that other teams didn't do their homework? Yeah.

SPEAKER_02

Draft Day, I mean, nothing's better in explaining what goes on the draft day.

SPEAKER_03

It all came back around, right? Mm-hmm.

SPEAKER_01

I think Mendoza's clearing away the number one pick. I don't think there's any question. I don't think there should even be a conversation about, you know, you want to talk later if the is if he's a boss and some third or fourth round pick turns out to be the cream of the crop, then we all missed. Okay. I just don't see anybody out there like I have previously where you could say, well, look at this kid here. You know, he's he's big. He's got a big arm. He's making all the throws. He played in some whacked-out conference that we never heard of and threw for 4,000 yards. Well, all right. You know, you want to take a flyer on a guy like that in the fourth or fifth round, you should, you should. Good for you. But after Mendoza, this draft kind of falls off a cliff. You know, it's Mendoza, the three pass rushers, maybe four, Caleb Downs, and then I think that offensive lineman from Miami was huge. And after that, you know, it's a crapshoot. I don't, I don't, I don't think there's any crazy standout talent that we're missing. This isn't like, you know, when Randy Moss fell to 15th, and it was, well, can you trust his off-the-field issues and his character issues? It's Randy Moss. What else did you need to see besides the the film? You know?

SPEAKER_02

That is.

Draft Board Games And Team Posturing

SPEAKER_01

There's no player out there in this draft that that stands out to me after those four or five guys. And I think I think the drop-off, I think there's a drop-off from where Mendoza is to those next three guys we talked about.

SPEAKER_02

Oh, I definitely don't know.

SPEAKER_01

I don't think they're I don't think they're that great. I think they're good. I think they'll end up playing in this league, hopefully for them for a long time. You know, but I don't see Reggie White in this draft.

SPEAKER_02

I don't see Reggie White in any draft.

SPEAKER_01

Jadavian Clowney was a big name, right?

SPEAKER_02

I thought he never he never got into himself.

SPEAKER_01

So, you know, things things have changed post-COVID a little bit here. And the players being older, like we talked about earlier, the NIL, or I should say the portal, really, where these players don't play in a system very long and they bounce from team to team. And, you know, you're looking at a highlight reel that really doesn't showcase these players taking steps to get better. So there's a lot working against this this year's draft class, in my opinion.

SPEAKER_03

All right.

SPEAKER_02

It doesn't seem like we have a lot to talk about. We'll talk about after next week. Um so let me ask you a question. Have you ever seen a doc a documentary about Jerry West called Jerry West, I'm the Logo or the Logo or something like that?

SPEAKER_01

I saw, I remember I'm the logo. I saw parts of that. I didn't watch the whole thing.

SPEAKER_02

My God, it was magnificent. It really was good. It really just showed how he was. He's like a, you know, different than I really perceived him. He's like a Larry Bird kind of guy, like regular, comes from North Carolina or South Carolina or something. And and he just his obsession with winning. You know, he had that Larry Bird again, Larry Bird, Michael Jordan kind of way about him, where winning was just so important.

SPEAKER_01

Yeah, of course. And he's probably really got and you think about his manager as a player.

SPEAKER_02

He's been inducted into the Hall of Fame three times. That's incredible. Player, manager, executive.

SPEAKER_01

That's pretty wild. I mean, that's an incredible basketball persona.

Mendoza Vs Simpson Quarterback Debate

SPEAKER_02

You know, they wouldn't acknowledge that. Incredible basketball mind. They wouldn't acknowledge that he was on the logo for the longest time.

SPEAKER_01

David Stern Yeah, until they got the uh was it was it uh man, was it Wide World of Sports that did the freeze frame? Yeah. That that proved it was him.

SPEAKER_02

And and it was insane. David Stern never would do it, the consummate lawyer that always afraid he was gonna get sued.

SPEAKER_01

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02

Did you ever read any of the Epstein emails about David Stern?

SPEAKER_01

I saw the ones that Dom sent to us. Michael and I went through them. Pretty disturbing.

SPEAKER_02

When he was talking about, you know, the people in the lobby were like sheep.

SPEAKER_01

Mm-hmm. I mean Yeah, yeah. Talk about a guy who's an elitist. That's one word I can use.

SPEAKER_02

Yeah. And if somewhat was religion motivated, I got the impression, too. It certainly seemed that way. It seemed that way. And here's a guy that got Michael Jordan out of trouble. You know, he said, go away and your gambling won't come to the surface.

SPEAKER_01

Yep. And yeah, I, you know, people in high places that are powerful executives and CEOs and stuff like that, they can do good with their power and help people. You know, Michael Jordan obviously had an issue with the gambling, and it seemed like David Stern was instrumental in, you know, helping him get past that. But so was who was the owner? Reinsdorf? Is that right? You know, I think they probably had a conversation, the three of them, at some point, probably whoever Michael's agent was, and figured out a path for him that could get him out of trouble. So that's an example of something good that came out of, you know, the power that that these guys wield to help players, because ultimately I think even Michael Jordan, whether it's Michael Jordan or, you know, Mr. Irrelevant, you know, players are going to find themselves in positions and sometimes really not through their own fault, where they can't get out of it, or they they're just, you know, hamstrung, whatever the case may be. And uh, you know, they need help. And, you know, obviously Michael was not just the face of the franchise, he's the face of the NBA for quite a long time. And, you know, for that stretch of time, you know, in the 90s, he was it.

SPEAKER_03

Oh, yeah.

SPEAKER_01

And they needed him to be it.

SPEAKER_02

So wherever he went, wherever he went, he sold it out of arenas.

SPEAKER_01

Yeah. You know, and to his credit, here we are 30 years later. Well, 25, 26, 27 years later, post Michael's last championship, and he wins the first three races of the NASCAR, right? This year. So just an incredible legacy for him to not only have won all those games, NBA championships, scoring titles, defensive player of the year, MVP, et cetera, but to win even one race, let alone three in a row, uh, in any NASCAR season, I think that's incredible. It just goes to show what kind of effort he puts into anything he does.

SPEAKER_02

So here we are looking at, you know, Jerry West, who didn't care about anything but winning, had an amazing ability to pick players. You know, he he would see the players, which was the best ones. I mean, he won, I don't know how many championships as maybe he won one as a player because he played the Celtics, and that team was ridiculous back then. But later on, and he had a ridiculous team too, but for some reason they couldn't beat the Celtics. Except for one of the people. Yeah, it's weird, right? You wouldn't, well, the Celtics had I mean, they were amazing. Right. They had Bill Russell. I mean, they had a great team. And then, you know, as players, he was able to put as a uh uh administrator, manager, or whatever, he was able to put people together. He could put that chemistry of players together like nobody's business. He did it two or three times. And he got like a rough deal, like he couldn't do it anymore, and then the Lakers wouldn't take him back, and you had that whole Jerry Buss thing going on at the same time. I mean, it was interesting. Have you ever seen the winning time, which is the docudrama about. The Lakers on HBO Max. HBO Max. If you hadn't seen it, you absolutely have to see it. It's hysterical. It's funny as well as Drake because Buss was a, you know, the opening scene is him waking up in the Playboy Club. You know what I mean? And he goes, you know where I'm going? And he and it's all soliloquy the whole time. You know where I'm going right now? I'm going to buy a basketball teams. He goes, the two things he goes, if you really want to believe in God, I believe in God for two reasons. He goes, what were the two? I just sipped out of my head. But one of them was basketball. So I mean, it was funny.

SPEAKER_03

Yeah, I I only saw um I think one or two episodes of showing.

SPEAKER_02

Oh, there's two seasons. You gotta watch it. It's on HPO Max. You gotta watch it. It's so good about the time. And and my favorite is is when Nike went to Magic and said, you know, we we want you to wear our shoes and we're gonna give you this money. But and I forget how much it was, millions. He's like, but if you want to take stock instead, you know, we'll give you more than that in stock. And he said, No way I want cash.

SPEAKER_01

I want cash.

SPEAKER_02

Meanwhile, the stock today would have been worth eight billion dollars.

SPEAKER_03

Wow. So that's the way it is when you get in on the ground floor, right?

SPEAKER_01

So that was a really good incredible. That's a staggering amount of money. I mean, that's incredible.

SPEAKER_02

Yeah, that's what he's saying now. And he's not poor by any imagination. But you know, they they talk a lot about LeBron. I don't know why people don't like LeBron. Is it the showmanship kind of way? You know, when you watch Jerry West, he wins, he celebrates that night. Next day, he's taking about the other next season.

SPEAKER_01

That's what winners do. Belichick was criticized for that.

SPEAKER_02

Oh my god, he always did not enjoy the Super Bowl.

SPEAKER_01

He's like, we're we're two weeks behind everybody else. I gotta get to work tomorrow. That's incredible.

SPEAKER_02

Belichick, too. You know, Cherry West was like that. We know Tom Brady was like that.

SPEAKER_01

Yeah.

SPEAKER_03

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02

You know, Tom Brady spent a long time learning and winning and and being about that thing. And and that's that's really what made him. I don't care about it. And it and his work ethic and his health.

SPEAKER_01

I think their passion for winning is driven by their work ethic. They're people that understand the time they're putting in is dedicated towards something that no one else can attain, and then it becomes something that they not that they feel entitled to it, but that they just want it more than anybody else. And maybe they feel like they deserve it, but they know that they're the first one in the gym, they're the last guy to leave practice, you know, they're never late for a meeting, you know, they're constantly on top of all those things, encouraging teammates and players.

SPEAKER_02

It's more than being a gym rat, right? They're in the gym, they're really working it, figuring it out. You know, you think, so where does he go?

SPEAKER_01

They're not just going through the motions.

Why This Draft Feels Thin

SPEAKER_02

So where does Jerry West go? He goes to Golden State. So it goes or he went to the Timberwolves, won them a championship. Where does he go next? He goes to Golden State. Look at the players he drafted there. Yep. You know, the I have the masterclass app. I don't know if you've ever seen it, but it's all these great guys and girls and great people that are successful and they teach you about it. Whether it's Martin Scorsese, whether it's a chef, uh, whether it's a poker player, they have Steph Curry teach you about basketball. Well, let me show you how I learned to dribble. And you watch this guy practice with a basketball, and you say to yourself, is that the same sport we played in high school? Because I've never seen anybody do that before. I've never seen that before. And the way he taught himself to dribble and play, and it's just magical to watch. The way you learn to pass the ball. You know, you get that from magic, the magic, you know, and it transcends the generation. Jerry West told a great story in his documentary, and he died soon afterwards, I think before it went out, and he had really his body had broken down or whatever it is, and the coach said to him, I want you to lead the league in assists this year. And he was like, What? And he took a Jerry West with the greatest jump shot of all time.

SPEAKER_01

Prolific score.

SPEAKER_02

Right? And his jump shot was mag was pure a ballet dance. You watched him, first of all, he came off the ground really high, and he just had it, his mechanics were perfect, and he could dribble too. So he concentrated on passing, and he led the league that year. They won the championship, and he w and he led the league that year in in uh assists. So these guys know how to stay on and how to win. They use and good coaches, especially on basketball, know how to use use the players that complement each other, in order to how to put that, you know, basketball's different than everything else because you have to have five guys have to work together. And if they're not going to work together, there's whatever. And you're talking Jerry West at a time when there was no three-point line. Imagine if Jerry West had a three-point line.

SPEAKER_01

Some of the video you're watching him shoot from well beyond where the arc is, and you wonder, you know, would anybody even be able to defend that? Because back then, without the arc, they'll shoot from out there all day long.

SPEAKER_02

And they were in it a game seven, a game seven, and they go into it. And they're two points down from with the buzzers hitting zero, and he shoots from farther back than the half-court line and hits nothing but net and ties the game so they go into overtime. They lose in overtime. Now, they would have won the game if they had a three-point line because there would have been three points instead of two. But what I found really interesting is when they interviewed him about it, and he said, I wish I missed the shot.

unknown

Huh.

SPEAKER_02

They said it was an amazing shot. I wish I missed it. They said, Why? We lost the game. The shot, the shot is I had people asking me about a shot. I lost the game. Yeah. If we won the game, it would have been a great shot. But we didn't. We lost the game. Don't ask me about it. It's like one year when they lost uh finals, he won the MVP. And he didn't even want to take the trophy. He didn't want to do anything about the MVP. He hated it.

SPEAKER_01

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02

Because he lost the finals. I mean, that is.

SPEAKER_01

That's how winners think. It's just that simple. You know what I thought interesting? I didn't know. Jack Kent Cook was the owner of the Lakers when uh he hired Jerry West.

SPEAKER_02

Really?

SPEAKER_01

I didn't know that.

SPEAKER_02

That was before Bus, right?

SPEAKER_01

When you hear Jack Kent Cook, you think of the Redskins, Joe Gibbs, you know, stuff like that. That's incredible. Yeah, it was before Bus.

Jerry West And Winning Time

SPEAKER_02

So so when he buys the team, you know, he has Bus goes in there to buy the team. He doesn't really have any cash. He has some buildings that he owns, Chrysler building.$67 million in change. That's what he paid for it. And he's like, I have$34,$33 million in buildings. You can have them. And they take it in exchange. And when you come, oh, I'll get the other money. He walks out of the building, he looks at the camera, and he says, I don't have the money. I don't even know where I'm going to get it, but I'm going to get it. And he ends up getting it. It goes to his ex-wife, goes to all these people, ends up getting the money. Meanwhile, his business partner, you pretty much could take him to the hospital. So it's interesting because you see, um, you we all know that that team just sold, I don't know, was six, seven, eight billion. And here's a team he bought in our lifetime for 67 million. And now it's worth billions. And, you know, Jeannie, Jeannie Bus, I think that's her name. She um she's still in control of the team, but somebody else owns it.

SPEAKER_01

Well now there's there's an ownership group that yeah, there's some questions there. She still runs the team, but she's no longer, I think, primary, right? She does she own a piece of it? Or she's just running operations?

SPEAKER_03

I have no idea. Yeah, there was uh story about that. Yeah, well, what do you think capital gains is on that?

SPEAKER_01

I don't know. Do they do they pay capital gains or do they have an out like everybody else does?

SPEAKER_02

Mark Waller became the majority owner of the Lakers. He purchased 66% from the bus family for a record$10 billion evaluation, means that he paid$6.6 billion.

SPEAKER_01

For just over half the team.

SPEAKER_02

Bus family retains 15% of stake in the team. Um this marks as significant uh forty-six years of majority control of the bus family. The highest uh evaluation, highest valuation of any United States sports franchise.

SPEAKER_03

Mark Walker had been a minority owner since 2021.

SPEAKER_01

Yeah, things things change as far as ownership groups about I don't know, 10. What year is this? Pre-2016. Sometime sometime between 2008 and 2016 uh ownership eligibility changed in the United States, and we have more uh I don't know what you call them, ownership groups, conglomerates, foreign entities, et cetera, have their hands on American. So here's franchises.

SPEAKER_02

Here's the four richest basketball players. Michael Jordan, 3.2 plus billion. Largely due to his relationship with Nike, and his majority stake in the Charlotte Hornets, which he doesn't have anymore. At least I don't think he does. Magic Johnson, 1.2 billion plus wealth through diverse business investments, including Starbucks, movie theaters, and minor stakes in in pro sports teams. Number three, LeBron James, the first active player to become a billionaire.

SPEAKER_01

That is absolutely incredible.

SPEAKER_03

There's something about LeBron.

SPEAKER_02

Though he's a beast on the court, and I think a lot of things, there's something about him that in my mind doesn't make him one of the great players. And I and I can't really put my finger on it. And we talked a little bit about last week or the week before. Yeah. And the other guy is Junior Bridgman. Played 11, 12 seasons in the NBA with low career earnings that became a massive success, owning hundreds of fast food franchises, engaging in bottling as well as mentioned in the Times article of India. Made a lot of money. Good business man.

SPEAKER_01

That's incredible. LeBron being a billionaire sports current, you know, player in any league is pretty incredible. And it's kind of scary to think that that's the era we're living in right now, because he's just the first. There's gonna be somebody else. There's gonna be somebody in football.

SPEAKER_02

There's gonna be someone in F1, without a doubt.

SPEAKER_01

Yeah, there's gonna be somebody in baseball after you looked at the Soto and the Otani contracts. I don't know who, but they'll get there eventually. That's really incredible. And I I imagine it has more to do with endorsements and off the court stuff, but still, if you're that marketable and that recognizable and that sought after, it really says a lot uh about who he is.

Stern Emails And Power In Sports

SPEAKER_02

Yeah, let me ask you this question. But isn't there something about that he doesn't seem to put the game first? The game is never bigger than him. He has always puts himself as bigger than the game. Himself is a spectacle. It's never about the game. He never and and not that I don't say he's not a winner. You know what they talked a lot about in the uh in that documentary about uh they talked about um when Jerry West drafted God, you could tell I I don't feel well because I can't. Vladi Divak? No, the guy Kobe talks about 17 years old who drafted Kobe. Well, wasn't that a trade?

SPEAKER_01

Didn't they trade for Kobe?

SPEAKER_02

They traded for Kobe, but he still had a great player for Kobe. Yeah. And so he was 17 years old, and he's like, listen, this guy's gonna be great. And Kobe and Shaq, how he settled that was really interested too, because Shaq and him were fighting whatever, and then he like brokered a deal and said, Shaq, you take the first three quarters, Kobe, fourth quarter is only you.

SPEAKER_01

Yeah. So I I would put LeBron behind Kobe. I would too. I could argue that Kobe's not in the top ten, but wherever Kobe is, LeBron is behind him, and LeBron is not in the top 10. And I know I'll get a lot of flack for that, but I referenced something that Mike Francesa once said, and this was before Tim Duncan's career is over. He mentioned five players, and I'm not gonna remember all of them, so I won't even try. But those five players are like four, five, six, seven, eight, somewhere in the top ten. And wherever they are, they're just ahead of Kobe, and they're just behind, you know, Michael and Oscar or whatever. And Oscar, to me, those five players, now Tim Duncan is ahead of them. Whether or not that knocks those five players completely out of the top 10, I wouldn't say it does, but LeBron's not past them. The thing about LeBron, I think that you're referencing is, you know, his rookie year, or the the it was his rookie year when he took Cleveland to the finals, right? And he scored, I think, the last 20-something points of that game in the fourth quarter and dragged Cleveland to the finals. And you thought to yourself at that moment, holy crap, look at what this 19-year-old kid just did. And you think, what else could he possibly do going forward? And you expected him to win a championship. You expected him to, you know, become the best player. You expected him to have this insane championship after championship type career. And when he got traded, or when he left, I'm sorry, when he signed with Miami, he went to Pat Riley. You're thinking, as absurd as it was when he was on stage with Dwayne Wade, you know, we're not going to win five, six, seven, we're gonna win how many championships. They probably should have, they definitely could have, but they didn't. And they kind of fell short. And he needed help to get there.

SPEAKER_02

So Yeah, it didn't have just Dwayne Wade. He also had Boss.

SPEAKER_01

Right, Boss was there too. And Boss is a great player. And I think Kevin Love was on that team, wasn't he?

SPEAKER_02

Yeah, I think so.

Lakers Sale And Athlete Billionaires

SPEAKER_01

So, or maybe at that but point being that, you know, I always said, you know, Kobe needed Fisher and Paul Gasal as much as he needed, you know, uh Robert Ory and Shaquille O'Neal. So, you know, those guys helped complete those teams. But LeBron had a full complement there. Uh it was Ray Allen, right? Ray Allen hit that three-pointer. He needed, he, he needed every single one of those guys to get to where he was. Whereas prior to that, Kobe, Michael, et cetera, were much bigger parts of the of the solution to winning a championship for those teams. And I think that's what puts him behind these guys in our minds. You know, Michael was a killer. Michael was an assassin. Michael would go to the basket with the intent to score every time. It wasn't about drawing a foul. It wasn't about making the other team. He wanted to score. And he did everything he could to put the ball in the basket. And if he got fouled, great. He's going to sink that free throw. And if he didn't get the foul, he was going to give a dirty look to the referee and make sure he got that foul the next time. He never did anything out of the ordinary to try and draw a foul. He just attacked the basket like a complete and total assassin. Kobe was also somebody who attacks the basket. I thought perhaps if I had to knock him, I would say it looked like he was always trying to draw a foul. There were times when he would throw up shots and flail his arms and do things that were, you know, unworthy of being the best player of all time. But again, a killer. Whereas LeBron, you know, I just never, other than that first year, when it was just get to the basket and score. And he dragged him to the finals. I never saw that again from him. I really didn't. Maybe you'd see flashes here and there. Maybe you'd see, but he was not the same player in the fourth quarter that these other guys were. He just wasn't. So I think that's what what your your eyeball test is telling you. He's not Michael. He's not Kobe. He's not Tim Duncan. Um, even though they beat Tim Duncan in the files. Those are one of those things you wish you had back. The Spurs should have won that.

SPEAKER_02

So here's Bill Russell. It's hard comparing basketball players to different eras. Absolutely. But one, two, three, played 13. One, two, three, four, five, six, seven, eight, nine, ten, eleven championships out of 13 years.

SPEAKER_01

I would take Tim Duncan and Bill Russell and let you take the next five picks.

SPEAKER_02

And I'll beat you every time. I'm a big Tim Duncan guy, so. So I mean, I don't even know what I don't even know what to say about that. I mean, a guy was just, and you know what? Who did he play? So he won how many, wait, how many MVPs? One, two, three, four, five MVPs.

SPEAKER_00

Bill Russell?

unknown

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02

And let's not forget that the other big guy in the league is Will.

SPEAKER_03

The greatest athlete of all time. So I'm trying to get. I'm trying to get his team that from that year.

SPEAKER_01

Yeah, I think their conversations about one another, their conversations with each other tell you, give you an insight that you can't get from a sports writer or somebody else that wasn't right there on the court and to the greatest of all time.

SPEAKER_02

I mean, let's just pick a year. Let's pick towards the end, 67.

SPEAKER_01

It's one thing. It were like 50 something rule changes at one point that were because of Wilt Chamberlain. And they weren't to benefit him. They were to slow his game down because he was so dominant.

SPEAKER_02

But Russell always had his number.

SPEAKER_01

Yeah, well, and one thing that sticks in my mind about Bo Russell is when he said hustle on defense, rest on offense. I think that was probably the greatest advice I'd ever heard from a player that a coach should use when leading, you know, a basketball team. If you hustle back on defense every time, a Duke has that thing where they run back and touch the floor. So it's it's born in it's bred into their makeup, their DNA, their basketball DNA. Those are words to live by if you're a basketball player, basketball coach, because especially today, look at look at who is successful, right? Guys that play a little bit of defense, because everybody can score now, but guys that play a little bit of defense are just that much more talented, their teams win more.

SPEAKER_02

In 68, he you know, when they won, he also played with John Havelchek, which was a scoring guard. He was just a great player.

SPEAKER_01

Yeah. Um I would say you'd have to look at the cobbleman of players between.

SPEAKER_02

And he played with Sam Jones, two teams. Who later coached the Red Lakers. And and Sam Jones was a great player. And Jerry West hated him. He goes, How can I play for this guy?

SPEAKER_01

You can't play with this guy. Yeah, I mean, you know, it's it's hard to find players that complement one another, but you know, five guys have to share the ball, right? And you know, one guy has to facilitate the other four, presumably.

SPEAKER_02

So you had those Laker teams with Wilt, and then you had the Nick teams. Frasier, the Busher, the Senator, what's his name?

SPEAKER_01

Bill Bradley.

SPEAKER_02

Bill Bradley from Princeton. And you had Clyde Fraser.

SPEAKER_01

Incredible team.

LeBron Arguments And Closing Thoughts

SPEAKER_02

And and the second time they won, they brought in uh Earl of Pearlman Roth from Washington. He was with the Bullets and he came over. I mean, uh, those were amazing teams. Willis Reed was nowhere near Bill Russell, or I mean he's a Hall of Famer. But or or um Bill Russell in class by himself, really. Yeah, absolutely. Well, I think we can end it there for this week. Next week we'll have draft hangover and we'll go through how stupid every team was and how how they should have hired us to do it all. Uh because we'll have our hindsight, which is severely 2020.

SPEAKER_01

I have a good authority that we're we're well ahead of most of the guys in those rooms.

SPEAKER_02

Yeah. Who would have figured?

SPEAKER_01

And that's without all the millions and millions of dollars worth of information and equipment that they have in front of them.

SPEAKER_02

Maybe we could have one of your guys next week.

SPEAKER_01

Yeah, we'll work on that for sure.

SPEAKER_02

All right. All right, we droned on because I'm sick. I just drone on about all kinds of crap. So thank you, everybody. It's more small, and we'll see you all next week.