World Cup live From Portugal

A late goal can feel like an earthquake when you’re watching from the winning team’s backyard. Mark Leonard joins us from Portugal minutes after Spain’s 1-0 win, and we unpack the whiplash: the streets that were loud last week, the sudden quiet tonight, and what it means when Cristiano Ronaldo plays the full match as the World Cup window starts to close on a legendary national team run. 

Then things get messy in the best way. We dig into the Balogun red card that sparks a bigger argument about VAR and refereeing: how slow motion and still frames can change the story, why intent gets lost, and how a dangerous but unintentional play can still earn a card. And when the suspension gets reversed, we talk about why it feels unprecedented, why fans call it a “Ronaldo rule” moment, and whether FIFA should be stepping into outcomes that teams should settle on the field. 

From there, it’s a full U.S. versus Belgium preview with real soccer detail. We talk about the U.S. identity shift toward aggressive pressing, fast ball movement, and smarter off-ball runs, plus what that means against Belgium’s talent like Doku and De Bruyne. We also zoom out to the wider World Cup storylines: Cape Verde’s magic, Mexico versus England madness, France’s balance, Messi’s clinical brilliance, and why extra time turns matches into pure survival chess. 

If you’re following the World Cup and want sharper takes without the noise, hit subscribe, share the show with a soccer friend, and leave us a quick review. What call did VAR get most wrong so far in this tournament?

Transcript

Setting Up A World Cup Night

SPEAKER_01 0:01

Welcome to Sports Live with Steve and Justin. Uh I'm Justin. I'm here waiting for Mark Leonard to join us. We're gonna talk World Cup. Hopefully he gets my invite and we can get off and rolling. And uh this uploads correctly when we're done. So we're gonna talk a little World Cup. Uh Mark is actually in Portugal, so once he's able to uh click the link and join us, I'll have him in the big studio here and we'll discuss some World Cup soccer. Hopefully it doesn't take too long because I know you don't want to stare at my face.

Portugal’s Loss And Ronaldo’s Finale

SPEAKER_01 1:39

I can see half your face. Half of it, that's it. Yeah, there you go. There's that handsome guy.

SPEAKER_00 1:46

What's showing up?

SPEAKER_01 1:47

How's Portugal?

SPEAKER_00 1:49

Portugal is great. Portugal is great. I mean, uh a little bit of a a down tonight because um Portugal just lost to Spain in the World Cup.

SPEAKER_01 1:59

Oh, well, I did I did send you a text saying I thought that was gonna I thought that game was gonna be seven o'clock our time. So that was the afternoon game.

SPEAKER_00 2:08

Uh it was the afternoon game. So it would have been, so it was eight o'clock here, so it would have been three o'clock there.

SPEAKER_01 2:13

Oh boy, so pretty somber mood right now in Portugal.

SPEAKER_00 2:17

Yep, so uh got to got to see all the insanity and craziness last week and today got to see all the the pain, struggle, and strife.

SPEAKER_01 2:26

Oh so we were in studio, I guess, probably for the ending of that game. What was the final score?

SPEAKER_00 2:32

Uh Spain won one to zero and they scored about the 85th minute of 90. So oh my god.

SPEAKER_01 2:40

Let me ask you this. Did Ronaldo finish the game?

SPEAKER_00 2:43

He did. Surprised, I was a little surprised um that they basically played him in entirety, the entire game.

SPEAKER_01 2:51

So um you had to figure he was gonna play that whole game.

SPEAKER_00 2:56

Yeah, I mean, last time uh you know Portugal won and uh and his substitute actually scored a goal last week. Yeah, um, it was a tremendous goal, and that that basically put him through to this round.

SPEAKER_01 3:13

And so we had that on live at the bar. That was pretty pretty well finished.

SPEAKER_00 3:16

Yeah, it was a pretty unbelievable finish aheader last week last week. But uh today it ends and and Ronaldo's career is pretty much uh, you know, as far as the World Cup and the national team, I think it's done.

SPEAKER_01 3:29

Yeah, he's he's over 40 years old now. I mean, when they played Croatia last week, I think they were in the top five oldest teams, both of them in the top five oldest teams, and I think their starting 10 guys on the field, I guess minus the goalie, uh were probably second and third oldest in the tournament.

SPEAKER_00 3:49

Yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_01 3:49

Which is Ronaldo who that matters in soccer. I mean, they're running down the field.

SPEAKER_00 3:55

Ronaldo, who ends it, is you know, obviously his career just ended is as far as I think the national team. I'm guessing he'll end his career with a national team, but he certainly probably he certainly won't make it to another World Cup. And and then last week when they beat Croatia, um, you know, Luka Modric is the Croatian center midfielder who had a fantastic game that game, and that was an unbelievably and controversial finish. And um there's a lot of things.

SPEAKER_01 4:26

It was hard to accept that loss from from someone like me who is rooting for you know my other side of the family, my wife's family's Croatian. To see four goals taken off the board in the second half was that was a tough pill to swallow.

SPEAKER_00 4:41

Yeah, it's pretty pretty crazy situation. So but Croatia Croatia was unbelievable. I mean they played tough. I mean two two World Cups ago, they made it to the final.

SPEAKER_01 4:51

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 4:51

And last World Cup, they made it to the semifinal. And and after our podcast that we did the preview things, um, I threw out the uh the wrong number. You know, my one of my friends basically said, Leonard, what are you doing talking about? Croatia doesn't have that many people. Uh they're like three and a half million. And I'm like, okay, okay. I don't have all my facts about population and this and that and the other, but man, this this this cup has been incredible. We had Cape Verde or Cabo Verde, um, you know, just off the coast of Africa, West Africa. I mean, I I saw an unbelievable. It was unbelievable. The I I personally my my feeling is that the second goal that the the the Kev Verde player scored is probably the goal of the tournament so far, in my opinion. Yeah. I mean, it was not only was it an incredible goal, but it was incredibly meaningful to setting the game uh you know to where it was and it was in overtime. Um so amazing situations.

US Form And The Balogun Red

SPEAKER_00 5:56

And now we've got, I mean, I'm not sure where you want to go with things, but boy, uh the US team looked really good through the group stage. Uh the last game in the group stage, they put a bunch of their second team in. I'm not I wouldn't say I'd use that as an excuse because I really think that they still should have won that game, but they they they faltered a couple times. Um but then we play, you know, the the the last game with them and they they look great and they're putting all sorts of pressure. I was afraid they weren't gonna get a goal, and then they ended up getting one uh for Lauren Balligan scores. And then speaking of which, then he has a red card. And so he has a red card.

SPEAKER_01 6:39

In your opinion, was that foul worthy of a red card at that moment without looking at the uh review uh when it happened live? Did you think it was a foul?

SPEAKER_00 6:49

When I watched it full speed, I I I would have called a foul for sure if I was the referee. And and then when I watch it full speed, um, it's kind of a very awkward situation. I'm trying to you know think of a different sport where some things like that are happening, but you know, when you're a uh a striker, a forward, and the ball is being played into you, and there's a defender behind you coming from either side or right up and right on your back, and you know, they're always pulling shoulders and shirts and all sorts of different things. Um the way the ball was arriving, Balogun is trying to receive it, I believe, with his right foot, and he's gonna try to stop its progress and trap the ball and set it down to himself. And the defender, I think, arrived quicker and on the opposite side of maybe where he even even believed it might happen, and and got his foot underneath. And so usually you're gonna stop the ball with your foot and then put your foot straight down on the ground. Well, kind of what happened was the defender did a great job there, and and Balogun doesn't touch the ball, still is putting his foot straight down, and happens to put his foot straight down on the guy's the back of the guy's Achilles and and ankle.

SPEAKER_01 8:08

And so you don't think it was an it wasn't intentional.

SPEAKER_00 8:11

It was 100% unintentional. Yeah, however, but it's still a foul. You you can't let that go.

SPEAKER_01 8:18

Right.

SPEAKER_00 8:19

And so it has to be an infraction. And is is it dangerous? 100% it's dangerous. Um, could that guy's Achilles gotten completely blown out and crushed? 100%. Yeah, but Malagan's in that position and he is where he is. And so when they call the VAR, here's what were the part that I think I struggle with tremendously.

SPEAKER_01 8:40

They showed is fairly new, right? It's only a couple of things. It's pretty new.

SPEAKER_00 8:44

It's pretty new. They they showed him slow motion, uh, the referee, and then they showed him still photos. They did not show him full speed. That seems crazy to me because when you watch it full speed, it looks 100% unintentional, certainly very dangerous, and it also looks like you know, Balogun is is in a position where it's wow, how did how did this he didn't even expect anything to happen, and it's just a coming together of two players. I mean, it's it's I'd I'd equate it maybe like in a basketball situation on off of free throws, and people are coming and crashing the boards, and somebody lands on somebody else's ankle. You got to come down somewhere. He didn't expect it to be um, you know, dangerous at all. I think you have to give him a card 100%. Um, by the laws of the game, what gets a little crazy here is he was issued a red card. So I I would have not issued that red card, but now that he was issued a red card, that carries a suspension of at least one game afterwards. And now obviously it the the craziness and zaniness um the rails very quickly. Very quickly. All of a sudden, people find out on a on a Sunday morning that uh Balogun's reinstated and and they've suspended that uh suspension of those games that game. Totally unprecedented. Yes, as far as a World Cup game, it's never happened. If you get a red card in a World Cup game, it's never been happened where the player plays the next game. But we're just talking, I'm in Portugal. Cristiano Ronaldo, the last game or two two games in the warmups, two games before he comes to the World Cup this year, elbowed somebody in the face. They was given a three-game suspension, which means he would not be starting the World Cup for his country. He serves a one-game suspension, and then they basically suspend the other two games so he can start in the World Cup. So it's kind of like called the Ronaldo rule now, but this is it's totally unprecedented, uh unprecedented. I think it's a mistake, but do I think that that Balogun should be playing? 100% I don't. And so FIFA should never have gotten involved.

SPEAKER_01 11:05

The United States should be able to win this game without him. Is that fair to say?

SPEAKER_00 11:09

Uh I would say from a from a soccer perspective, um us being able to win the game without him, he has been an incredibly scrappy player. He has been an incredibly effective player. No U.S. player scores three goals in a World Cup. He's already done it. And I think he is he is definitely a difference maker and generates all sorts of opportunities that make every one of us better. Could we beat Belgium without him?

VAR, Slow Motion, And A Reversal

SPEAKER_00 11:40

It's possible. And I'd say Belgium certainly, as a as a team, has a lot more talent on the field. They have not put it together. I mean, they came their last game, they scored two goals in the last five minutes of the game to put it into overtime, and then they won in the last minute of overtime with a penalty kick. So Belgium has incredibly high-level players all over the field. Uh, well, not all over the field. I think their defense is suspect. Um, so we might be able to score some goals on them, but I think if we have Balogun in there, we're much more likely to score goals. And from their perspective, I would think that they would be able to score if their players are playing together and at potential, they're going to score goals against us. They've got uh a left midfielder. I it's funny, in the last podcast or last uh show, I said Doku not to be you know confused with Dooku from Star Wars. Maybe what I didn't mention is they're both unbelievably lethal. So Doku, this left midfielder for for Belgium, is one of the quickest slashes. You know, he slashes all over the place. He just makes defenders, he's got incredible speed, incredible quickness. He just turns defenders inside and out or just playing outruns them. And so we are gonna really struggle with dealing with that. Um, you know, we do have a uh uh a right back um who is you remember the wide receiver for the Green Bay Packers, Antonio Freeman? Yeah. It's his son.

SPEAKER_01 13:12

Oh, no kidding.

SPEAKER_00 13:13

So he he's he's pretty athletic, he's got some speed, but we'll see. See how he see how he matches up with Doku.

SPEAKER_01 13:21

For us as and Packer fans across the board, I guess.

SPEAKER_00 13:24

Yep. And then they've got uh they've got Antonio Freeman was a very well-liked player across the and then they've got uh a player in the middle named Kevin De Bruyne, who is uh I'd say he he's a little aged also, but still can make things happen offensively. Um they they've just got a lot of talent in the midfield. There's a guy by the name of Tressard who plays left midfield for them. They they've got a lot, Lukaku is playing in Italy, they've got a lot of talent. They should be able to score.

SPEAKER_01 13:53

I feel like the aged players have a little bit of an advantage. The ones that have played in it in at least a World Cup previously have an advantage that younger players, not that they don't have it because they're younger or more athletic, but when you have experience in the World Cup, it kind of levels the playing field against younger players that don't have that experience.

SPEAKER_00 14:13

They've been there, yeah. And so one of the things when we were doing the preview, I was stating that I was very hopeful that the United States, I think we have a lot of talent. I used to say sometimes that we have um an incredible goalkeeper, and what I feel would be you know, some people would take issue with the statement, and it's and it's definitely overboard, but an incredible goalkeeper and 10 midfielders. We do we do not have that anymore. We have true defenders that are tremendous defenders. We have true midfielders, and we've got you know some strikers and wings that are just I mean, Bulisik and Balogun, and uh we got some players out there that can really get it done, and they are that position. And so I was hopeful when I said when things started against Powdergui that we would come out and and just we got a ton of great players. Let's see what they can do, let them go. And boy, have they been pressing everybody the intensity level, the the attacking mindset, just just let's go this full 90 minutes and let's go at full speed and see what we've got. They've done it, and and they've been unbelievably successful doing it. And I think they'll probably come out with that same intensity tonight. Um, you know, I don't know. I can certainly see us continuing the aggression and get up. Everybody's gotten up. Uh, it seems like Belgium had to come back the other day, but Senegal is just an incredibly Belgium beat Senegal to get to us uh three to two in overtime. And that was a crazy finish. Senegal is just that is a physically monstrous team, an incredibly experienced team, an incredibly technical and talented team. Um I personally feel that our our shots, our shot at winning this game is better against Belgium than it would have been against Senegal. And and I, you know, I I think the first 20 minutes in my tournament bracket. The first 20 minutes will tell a lot. It'll certainly tell whether we're gonna keep the same mindset and get after it and go full speed at them and see what we've got, or whether we're gonna be maybe a little more like respectful and slow and deliberate. I I personally want to see us get after it and just continue what's given us success so far. But who knows? You're not sure what the coaching staff is gonna put together and what the players are thinking. And I don't know. I don't like this whole weird red card, you know, change and it's losing it just throws a straining.

SPEAKER_01 16:45

And it's a total distraction from the total. It's a total distraction. Are they able to block that out and just go play? Or is this gonna hang over their heads in any way, shape, or form that you know precludes them from playing their best soccer tonight?

SPEAKER_00 17:01

Well, I think you've got so you know, our players that are playing over in Europe. Um, I don't even think we can understand up. So I'm in Portugal, and you know, you think our news cycle about sports and things is here it's 24-7 and it's all soccer, right? And so the players that are playing in in in England or Spain or Italy, they're used to hearing them being talked about all day long, every day, and they've been they were able to block it out. There are some players maybe that aren't as experienced and um maybe haven't had that pressure of the media on top of them all the time. I could see it affect them. And certainly if you're if you're Belgium, I mean there's there's a ton of great professionals over there. I don't even think that it'll is it giving them any more motivation? I I don't know. But man, after that last win for them, if you can't get behind your team and put it together at this point, then you just aren't gonna go forward. You're not gonna you're not gonna move on. Um, so what would you

Belgium Preview And Matchups

SPEAKER_00 18:06

do?

SPEAKER_01 18:06

We're talking with Mark Leonard here on the sports live with Steve and Justin podcast. Steve is on location in Maine uh and couldn't join us for this half, but I want to thank you, Mark, for coming in. Um it's great to have you. Uh it's incredible that you're in Portugal for this. I'm sorry that Portugal lost.

SPEAKER_00 18:23

Um, well, what gets crazy sorry, not sorry, but yeah, what gets crazy next week is next week I'll be in Spain, and Spain will be playing in the in the quarter final.

SPEAKER_01 18:35

So um something tells me you had you had some some inside information before you planned vacation. I didn't.

SPEAKER_00 18:41

My daughter's my daughters just had a soccer tournament in in Lisbon, so we went from the soccer. That's incredible. Now we're down at the beach in southern Portugal, and we'll be going to Spain Thursday night.

SPEAKER_01 18:51

Oh, that's great, man. That's great. Phenomenal. Phenomenal on vacation, you're still able to enjoy family at the same time, which is great.

SPEAKER_00 18:58

Yeah, but what's tough is I mean, tonight, uh, you know, my I gotta wake my my son's asleep. I gotta go wake him up at one in the morning to watch the game. It's it's tough to watch uh watch a World Cup when you're five hours ahead. It's a pretty tough situation. And when people are playing on the West Coast.

SPEAKER_01 19:15

Yeah, oh my goodness.

SPEAKER_00 19:16

Sure, sure. We'll see if my wife survives it because uh there's not been a tremendous amount of help to the family, that's for sure.

SPEAKER_01 19:25

We broke this down before we both I think were in agreement France was the best team in this tournament. Um, they certainly look like they're the best team. Um were there any surprises other than maybe I know Germany hasn't hasn't gone late into this tournament tournament in a while, but were there any surprises? I mean, I know Kate Verdi is a surprise. Um maybe the Swiss team, I uh you know, playing the way they are. Does anything stand out to you? Any player stand out to you as someone who's ready to take over this tournament?

SPEAKER_00 20:00

Whew, take over the tournament. Um I mean, the Cape Verde game was incredible. I stayed up last night to watch Mexico, England, and I'd say that the Cape Verde-Argentina game and the Mexico-England game, I mean, that's gotta be two of the best World Cup soccer games um, you know, I've ever witnessed. They were it was just end-to-end uh unbelievable situation. I I've seen some maybe Argentina, Netherlands in the past and some other ones, but um those two games were unbelievable. And Mexico, I mean, you're in Aztecas Stadium, you know, with incredibly high uh elevation atmosphere. They were all over England for you know 35-40 minutes, and boom, all of a sudden England just goes pop pop two goals uh in a row, and that game got crazy. They scored two goals, and then and then Mexico scores one right back, and then 15 minutes in the second half, I think, is 10 or 15 minutes in the second half. Player for England gets a red card, and uh you know, then England gets a penalty kick, and then Mexico gets a penalty kick, but they're down a man. And I thought I truly thought Mexico was gonna come back and tie it up, and if that would have happened. I think everybody felt that would have been I think it would have crumbled, but give it to England. Jude Bellingham, who's the you know, I don't know, I I put him as one of the top ten in the world. He's a center midfielder. He is really, he as an individual, I mean, Messi has taken over for Argentina. He has just been so clinical in his finishing. He scored an unbelievable goal against Cape Verde. And but Jude Bellingham in the middle has been a workhorse and and just been everywhere and done everything. Um, so he I think he he he was a difference maker uh in that game. Can any England do it? I mean, England was really getting worked over, I'd say, by Mexico. And they just def defended incredibly well and showed a lot of uh Mexico showed a lot of spirit for sure.

SPEAKER_01 22:12

I mean they easily should have won that game.

SPEAKER_00 22:14

Yeah, totally. Totally. They easily could have won that game 11 on 11. Um, but who's gonna take it over? I mean, France, uh I was pretty uh Paraguay was France is pretty well balanced. Well, we talked about uh just for a few minutes Paraguay before the tournament started. I said my buddy send a uh a send-off video to me where there's fireworks and the whole stadium, their national stadium is full and it's going crazy. Very proud nation. They they they kind of parked the bus and defended incredibly well, but when they had their opportunities to come forward, they scored a couple incredible goals. Yeah, and um, you know, France didn't completely unlock them. Did they have some chances? Sure. But France's goal was a penalty kick. Yeah, and so and they beat Paraguay 1-0. So Paraguay, I mean, hats off to them. They've had an incredible tournament, they played very tough. I mean, just it but they were committed to playing defensively, and then if you gave an opportunity gave them them an opportunity, they were gonna come get it. I see.

SPEAKER_01 23:30

Um really tough game. Um Kate Verde uh was incredible. Messi's goal um in that game. I mean, I had a full bar watching as that game was going on, and it was like, wow, how is this gonna finish? How is this gonna play out? And of course, Messi, you know, in the final minutes. Well, his piece is so incredible.

SPEAKER_00 23:54

I I believe it was, if I recollect, I believe it was his first goal that came over the top, and he just set it down like it was on a pillow on his left foot. Unbelievable. And then and then basically in the very next touch, just roofed it over the goalie into the into the top of the goal. If you're not a if you're not a soccer player, you don't know how difficult that is. I mean, that is just an unbelievably difficult scenario to do that. That not only the timing of that, but that ball is. I mean, it it's it's been an incredible situation to watch. So I still think, you know, from that side of the bracket, I mean, the the people would say probably the biggest talent maybe is on the on uh the left side of the bracket, which is kind of France is gonna play Morocco. Morocco stuck it to Canada 3-0.

SPEAKER_01 24:57

Um really good, yeah.

SPEAKER_00 24:59

You know, France, uh I still think has another gear if they turn it on. I don't think I don't

Tournament Surprises And Standout Stars

SPEAKER_00 25:04

see anybody staying with them, but I'm not sure everybody's gonna try to stay with them. They're gonna just try to defend, right? And then, you know, I just watched Spain and Portugal put up a good fight. The game was a little, I mean, I mean, I just watched England, Mexico yesterday. The game today, Portugal, Spain was, I felt it was like half speed compared to last night. Um but Spain is just gonna create opportunities all over the place. They're they're gonna, I don't care who they play, they're gonna create opportunities. And France is the same way. Um, so we play Belgium. If we get past Belgium, we're we have Spain. Um, and if for some reason we were able to get past Spain, and who knows, things happen and teams can make runs, and who knows, miracles could happen. Um, you know, we would probably match up against France. The other side, though, has Norway is a team, Norway beat Brazil. They're they're on fire.

SPEAKER_01 26:02

They've got all the momentum in the world here in the U.S., making friends everywhere.

SPEAKER_00 26:08

So Norway's gonna play England. I'm not sure they're gonna play in Miami, which is gonna be hot as hell. Yeah, and I'm not sure, but England's not necessarily, it's not like they play in the heat all the time, but certain Norway certainly doesn't play in the heat all the time, but they have their forward Holland and they've got a few other players. Um there there was a sub that was made. I was talking with my son, and I was I was a little bit there's a player that Norway has that's just lightning fast named Noosa, and he got pulled out the beginning of the second half, and I was a little bit, oh my gosh, Lee, I'm not sure what's going on. I'm not sure I agree with this one. Well, his sub basically was had the assists on both goals for Holland. But their storylines in that game right there, so Holland and this player for Brazil who was marking him, Gabriel, they in the British Premier League, Arsenal and Manchester City go at it every time they play. They are not, they do not like one of the ato. And um they're rivals. They're rivals, and Arsenal won the Premier League this year, and Manchester City had won it the four previous. Uh, or excuse me, maybe it was four out of six, but uh there's there's a lot of um, you know, there's a lot of dislike there.

SPEAKER_01 27:22

Highland is the darling of the internet right now. They've got him in AI pictures with a Knicks jersey Holland. Oh, right. They've got him with in a Knicks jersey at Madison Square Garden. They've got him in Jets uniform playing football. That, you know, he's gonna help every franchise win a win a championship. So he he's really kind of shooting, you know, uh uh lightning in a bottle right now.

SPEAKER_00 27:45

Right, right. Well, he on that first goal, that cross came in and and Gabriel's marking him, and he steps in front, gets that long neck of his out, and scores that goal. And and that's so that's that's just brutal. You know, it's just competition right there. Yeah, one of them gets the better of the other one game, the next game, the other gets the better, but it's it's tough when it's a World Cup and Brazil's ousted. And then Brazil missed a penalty kick in the game. The Norwegian goalkeeper made it and made a great save on that.

SPEAKER_01 28:15

Incredible save.

SPEAKER_00 28:15

I mean, talk about press, etc. They will be talking for another four years at least about how uh Bruno Gemerais took that penalty kick instead of Vinicius Jr. There's just gonna be criticism up and down for a long time there. So can Holland can Holland and Norway and the Vikings beat England? Sure. Are they gonna be favored? No, but they have some size, they've got some players, and I think I'd say as far as playing to potential in their games, I'd say Norway is one of the ones that has played almost up to their potential. And and so you you're gonna have to beat them, right?

SPEAKER_01 29:00

They're getting they seem to be getting better as this tournament goes on.

SPEAKER_00 29:03

Agreed, agreed. Yeah, yeah. I'm really excited. Um, Colombia plays Switzerland tomorrow, and Egypt plays Argentina, and I'm feeling that Argentina's gonna beat Egypt, and I'm feeling that Colombia's, I'm really excited to see a Columbia Argentina matchup. And Colombia Colombia's they got a ton of players, and they will be into it. And I don't know where that game would be played, but those are two of the most raucous fans out there, so that would be incredible. So on that side, that could happen, and then whoever wins those games, you know, could match up and and play against Norway or England. So we got a lot of I'd say nobody's taking over the tournament, but I'd still say most people or most pundits would say France has the most talent. Um, but you know, they they're they're certainly beatable.

SPEAKER_01 30:01

Does France have the the most talented player in this tournament, or are they just really solid across the board?

SPEAKER_00 30:08

Wow, I think I'm gonna get these numbers right. But Holland has seven goals. Uh Messi has seven goals. Um Mbappe, I believe, has seven goals. Wow. Um Harry Kane, I think, has maybe one last. I'm not positive of that. But I mean, Messi is just he has Messi.

SPEAKER_01 30:30

He's in a class by himself.

SPEAKER_00 30:32

He he he he is, but what's interesting is as he's aged the last few years, he looks different for Argentina than he ever has. So he's you you you find him, he always. He's always popping up in different places.

SPEAKER_01 30:48

Yeah. And he's just his and he's got a lot of miles on on the tires, right?

SPEAKER_00 30:53

He's he he does, but he he he doesn't use it, he he doesn't run nearly as much as anybody else on the field, right? But you'll see him, and he just has such a feel in a sense on where he is needed or where he's going to be needed. I I was just gonna make that comparison. He is three or four steps ahead of everybody else on what's going on and where it is. He he sees it all. And so he has he scored um well, he scored, I think, I think he scored more World Cup goals just in this tournament than Diego Maradona did, you know, in in in all the tournaments, right? And he's scored more World Cup tournaments since he's 35, or World Cup goals since he was 35 than he than he did all the years prior. So he is he is really on, he's got an incredible knack. And here's the thing that Argentina has that I don't I think some other teams don't. Maybe Norway has it. Argentina knows that Messi is the difference maker, and every single person on that team knows it and and realizes it and plays towards it, right? So I don't think there's any infighting on that team whatsoever. There's no jealousy. Everybody knows and how it's gonna work, and they're all in it together. I think Norway, I think, feels the same way. France, I mean, I think you're always gonna have a lot of differing personalities and things going on there. But man, when when they I think you're gonna see them against Morocco, I think they're gonna hit another gear. I'm not sure if Morocco is gonna try to just come out and play with them. I tend to think they're not. And Morocco, though, on the counterattack, sometimes will, you know, they can sit. Morocco is incredibly patient. They'll sit there for 10 minutes, and then you make a mistake, and seven people come out of nowhere, and and and you're down zero, and you're down zero to one, right?

SPEAKER_01 32:48

Yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_00 32:49

So Brazil being ousted is a big surprise to people. I can say I'm not incredibly surprised. I just think they they their team was not as deep and not as talented as as they've you know been for many years. And so that doesn't surprise me a lot. It was a big surprise. Somebody left the tournament very early. Um oh, the Netherlands. And so here that that's more of a tactical thing, I think. I'm uh my friend sent me something as well. That the the the person from Paraguay, um, Marcelo Ramirez, he sent me something and and I did not see that game. I think it was in the middle of the night, but the Netherlands uh has their their greatest strength as their midfield. And you and many teams start five midfielders, and the Netherlands started five defenders, uh uh, or maybe even a sixth, and uh in only three midfielders. And so maybe that's a tactical error there, and I think that comes down to a lot about attitude. So um, you know, I hope the U.S. just comes after it and gets after it again, see what we have. And I I do think they have the capability in the first 15-20 minutes, maybe we can pop a goal in, and man, if the U.S. team gets the belief that they can do it, and and they're, you know, wow. I I just I'm I'm excited to see what they can do, what can happen. And and I think the stands, you know, Mexico was it seemed like it was probably 80%, you know, Mexican, 80, maybe even more. I'm not sure what the stands Belgium is not necessarily a team, it's not a massive country, and I'm not they don't they don't maybe travel as well as some other teams. So we're gonna have a very pro US uh you know fan base and it can make a difference. It can make a difference.

SPEAKER_01 34:43

So how much is is the United States team, you know, is their philosophy score first, score early, and then kind of play hide and seek? Are are are they an attacking team? Or are they more like you said about like Morocco, they sit back and they wait and then and then find an opportunity? Well, we've it seems to me like they can't sit back and wait. That's the general feeling I guess.

SPEAKER_00 35:12

I feel for almost 30 years. And some of that is that we we just we didn't have the the level of player, maybe but we've had some huge wins. I mean, we be beat Portugal in the past. Sure. Um we've we've had some teams that that are that are really good. Um we've never had uh you know knockout wins. I think the the opportunity, the best best we've been is now.

SPEAKER_01 35:37

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 35:37

And and we do have those players at all the different positions. And it is the first time I've seen them since really like a Copa America game back in the 90s. It's the first time, you know, tournament and time that I've seen us just we're going full tilt. And, you know, I wouldn't say that it's score first, but the game starts and the U.S. is coming out and applying pressure. And it's not just that we're still. I like when they do that. I do want to we're we're not just sitting in positions, you know, oh, our wingers are on the touchlines or defenders. There's a lot of movement and a lot of creation of space. And players, what I love sometimes is, you know, when a central mid attacking central midfielder or a striker or a wing comes in and kind of cuts across the back line and the ball is played to the corner. It gets you a little out of shape defensively, but it really applies a ton of pressure in gaps and spaces.

SPEAKER_01 36:35

Some of these Europeans play in the field to create a lane to kick.

SPEAKER_00 36:38

Yeah, some of these European teams, I think, have just uh been, you know, what's called tiki-tacky is a little bit here, a little bit there, and they kind of overload a side and they build the ball up very slowly, and then we get into the final third and they try to work and get it, get a spacer gap, and it's it's a just much slower moving scenario. The U.S. is creating, they are trying to stretch the field every chance they get. They are willing to you know move the ball at pace one side to the other, uh, and and it's just really pretty to watch and and exciting. And so, hey, Belgium probably on papers, they're favored. Although uh I think people, whoever's in the betting lines or something, it seems like everybody believes America can go do anything. Um and you know, it's interesting. An old U.S. goalkeeper, um, Tim Howard, who played professionally in in uh in in England in the Premier League, he said that you know, you have to screw your straight heads on straight. The United States is not going to win the World Cup. But could they win this game? Sure. Sure. Are they expected to win this game? It's a lot of belief, but a lot of people I think are, you know, uh people are I think they're over robust on thinking our capabilities, but I I wouldn't tell it short. When you when you come out and you just play with that kind of emotional.

SPEAKER_01 38:00

They haven't proven that they're in the upper tier with France or that's right. They they still have a lot a long way to

Extra Time Chaos And Late Strategy

SPEAKER_01 38:07

go. One thing I noticed with this tournament, at least in the extra time, I saw I think it was Friday night, maybe it was Argentina. They went the you know, the game regulation ended and they had 10 minutes of extra time. And all of a sudden the ball is going up and down the field like they're trying to beat the clock to score. And I'm like, why weren't they playing like that at the end of regulation before they went into extra time? And then I realize I guess does it go into after extra time is over, it then goes into uh uh two 15 minute overtime.

SPEAKER_00 38:46

So you gotta focus for 30 minutes of soccer.

SPEAKER_01 38:48

30 minutes. Now, is it if if no if you score in the first 15 minutes, the game keeps going.

SPEAKER_00 38:54

If it keeps going, you got 30 minutes of soccer.

SPEAKER_01 38:56

You have 30 minutes. Okay. So that in between extra time, the 10 minutes, it was like back and forth, back and forth, back and forth, back and forth. And I don't remember I want to say they scored, both teams scored an extra time. It was insane. One team scored with like it was like the last second, and then they went into the overtime.

SPEAKER_00 39:17

Well that yeah, that was Belgian. Belgium was down two goals and they scored two goals in the last five minutes of regulation.

SPEAKER_01 39:23

Maybe that was it that I was watching. But but also changed.

SPEAKER_00 39:28

It did, it did. Yeah, and so maybe some I mean, think about it. If you're Argentina, you don't want to go to overtime. No, because you you you get to overtime and all of a sudden anything can happen, but you also have the situation where it's like, okay, we're gonna leave Lionel Messi in there. He's played lit a hundred minutes already. If if that guy pulls that guy pulls a hamstring, yeah, the chance of you Yeah, something happens like that. So you gotta think about that number one, you gotta think about uh, you know, just substitutions. You know, you don't have unlimited substitutions. Your players out there can get incredibly tired and you're in in your heat, heat, and humidity and all sorts of situations like that. And now um, I mean, but I will say this, like you're talking about that 10 minutes of extra time. That 10 minutes of extra time, when you start getting towards the end of the you know, regulation game or in overtime, many times it does get kind of frantic. And one of the reasons why that happens, whether it's the momentum's with you or not, but you know, as the game moves on and moves on, it moves on, you players are getting more and more and more tired.

SPEAKER_01 40:40

Are they trying to get to penalty kicks? Uh is one team thinking that they have a better shot with penalty kicks than the other?

SPEAKER_00 40:46

Some teams look like they're doing that. Um, I think that Cape Verde was possibly trying to do that, but then when Cape Verde scored the second goal in overtime to tie it two to two, I think Cape Verde, they were so, you know, their motivation, the adrenaline rush for them. I I mean it it looked like they might go and win it. It certainly did. Yeah, but the last, say, the 10 minutes of regulation or sometimes an overtime, um, players that come in in subs who have a lot more in the tank, other players are worn down. So some players, so some teams will play, put in, you know, a speedster uh in the last 15 or 20 minutes because everybody else is a little more tired. And so that differential, maybe they're a little bit faster, but you get to the 90th minute. You get to that 90th minute and you have a speedster already, and then you put them in at the end of the game compared to regular players playing back there, and now the differential is huge, and so it does kind of get going end to end and opportunities. It is it's some exciting stuff there sometimes.

SPEAKER_01 41:49

So there's a lot of strategy too. Yeah, at least from the coaching standpoint, it seems totally.

Travel Plans, Final Watch, And A Hoops Legend

SPEAKER_01 41:56

All right, well, I'm gonna let you go enjoy it. You gotta wake up your son in like what 10 minutes?

SPEAKER_00 42:01

Uh well, it's it's midnight. I think the game starts in an hour, so I'll wake him up in like 45-50. So we'll uh we'll have that. I mean, it would be amazing to see the red, white, and blue move on. I'm hoping for it. Um we'll see how that happens. And I mean, I'm still thinking probably it looks like uh, you know, France, but I mean Spain looks really, really good. And who knows? England just fought fought unbelievably hard. And like you mentioned, that the Norway's there, they haven't been there in forever.

SPEAKER_01 42:29

Norway's a lot of fun. I mean, they're just yeah, their fan base is incredible. So are you watching the game in your are you in a hotel? Are you in uh Airbnb?

SPEAKER_00 42:38

So I'm curious to see what things like when I go. I'm in an Airbnb, and when I walk downstairs, uh there's a a bar right outside the the doorway. And uh, but I think that's gonna be so depressed that people will be home and gone.

SPEAKER_01 42:51

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 42:52

So we'll see. So it probably looks like in the home. Uh if it were if Portu if Portugal would have won, um I don't know, you know, it's a good way to teach your children how to sleep through noise, right? So live on top of the bar, New York City. Um well, thanks for having me again. Um if you want me to check in again, we'll do it. Uh uh so it it's we're gonna have you know eight phenomenal teams in the quarterfinals, and and it's just yeah, it it it's it's the World Cup the last few times has just gotten better and better. It's great. I'm loving it.

SPEAKER_01 43:33

When do you land back in the States?

SPEAKER_00 43:36

I land back in the States on the 17th. So I'm gonna come back. We're gonna be in Spain next week for a bunch of games, and I'm gonna watch one quar one semifinal in Spain, and then the next day I'm driving, I'm gonna meet my my friend Pedro Tavares in Lisboa. Actually, he lives in Setubal, which is in right outside of Portugal, or right outside of Lisbon. Um, we're watching that game with him, the second semifinal. I fly back on the 17th, and the and the uh the final is the 19th on Sunday.

SPEAKER_01 44:07

Awesome.

SPEAKER_00 44:08

So let's get together for the final.

SPEAKER_01 44:10

Yeah, I I think we can swing that for sure. That'd be awesome. I'm sure there'll be something going on at the Lyceum for sure. There we go. Carl coordinating.

SPEAKER_00 44:19

You had a great show earlier.

SPEAKER_01 44:22

Yeah, we went on for an hour. We talked about we actually talked about baseball for the first time in a while. We nothing specific, but we went on for about almost a half hour and then we transitioned to basketball. You know, you still need to get the good out.

SPEAKER_00 44:34

You need to get the uh can't remember the what was the name of the newspaper, the the gentleman you had, the uh the rabbi.

SPEAKER_01 44:42

Uh yeah, he was on today.

SPEAKER_00 44:44

So keys. So you need to you need to check with him. I think I sent you an email about it before we got on last time. So the my my father, I think I emailed this to you. So my father, Richard W. Leonard, went to a college, it was a scholarship college in Indiana named Fournier. And he, in a college basketball game, one game he scored 63 points, which is pretty crazy what before the three-point shooting line. But my father was 27 for 27 from the free throw line in a game. And I don't believe, I can't find it. I can't find it anywhere. I don't think I believe in the NCAA that there's ever been a uh even a maybe somebody's shot 27 free throws but not made them all. Um, but you got to get the rabbi on that one. See if you can see if you can find it anywhere.

SPEAKER_01 45:31

I thought I did forward it to him, but I'll I'll send it again, the article.

SPEAKER_00 45:35

Tell him to do some digging in.

SPEAKER_01 45:37

That's a story worth telling in the yeah, yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_00 45:40

Get my father some late recognition. Uh get my late father some great recognition. We'll see how it goes.

SPEAKER_01 45:45

And we'll definitely take down that task for sure.

SPEAKER_00 45:48

Perfect. So we'll we'll we'll talk. Let's see. So today's what is today? It's Monday, the fourth, fifth, I guess the fourth was so it's the sixth, the thirteenth, one. So yeah, if we want to check in uh next Monday one more time before the final, certainly let's do it if you want. Okay.

SPEAKER_01 46:08

All right, pal. Thanks for having me. Thanks for having me on. Talk to you soon. Don't forget to uh after you log out, just let it finish uploading uh before you close out the computer. Sounds like a lot of things. All right, pal, thanks very much. Talk to you soon.