The Fitter’s Perspective - Troy Goretska

What do fitters actually see when your animal walks into the barn?

In this episode of Cheat Codes: Show Stock Edition, Tom sits down with experienced fitter Troy Goretska to talk about what separates average projects from great ones — and why most success in the show barn comes down to daily habits, consistency, and good management, not just feed or supplements.

Troy shares how he got started in fitting, what he notices immediately when he looks at a new animal, and the biggest mistakes newer show families tend to make. They also break down some of the confusing terminology used by judges and fitters — words like cover, bloom, freshness, and handle — so beginners can better understand what those comments actually mean in the ring. 

The conversation also dives into:

• Why daily management and routine matter more than most people think
• How to evaluate livestock and identify what your project actually needs
• When supplements help — and when they don’t
• Why finding the right mentors and “your people” can accelerate your learning curve
• The philosophy Troy calls “Rule #1: Be a good home” for your livestock

For new families especially, Troy offers practical advice on building a foundation, learning from experienced exhibitors, and focusing on the process rather than just the color of the ribbon.

If you’re new to show livestock — or looking to level up your program — this episode will help you better understand how experienced fitters think about managing animals and preparing them for the ring.

If you enjoyed this episode, share it with another show family who’s just getting started so more people can learn a thing or two along the way.

And don’t forget to subscribe to Cheat Codes: Show Stock Edition so you don’t miss upcoming conversations with breeders, fitters, judges, and other experts across the industry.

Transcript

SPEAKER_04 0:00

Welcome back to Cheat Codes Showstock Edition, the podcast where we're learning the game of show livestock together and talking with the people who already know how to win. I'm your host, Tom Gorley, and today we're diving into something I think a lot of new show families struggle with. Understanding what fitters actually see when animals walk into the barn. There's a lot of talk out there about feed programs, supplements, and products, but what often gets missed are the daily management habits that really shape how an animal looks on show day. So today we're bringing in someone who sees animals at the end of that process when the work either shows up or it doesn't. Joining us today is Troy Goreska, a professional fitter who has worked with cattle and lambs across the country. Troy gets to see firsthand what good management looks like and where families often have gaps. Troy, thanks for joining us.

SPEAKER_01 0:50

Thank you, Tom. Excited to be here.

SPEAKER_04 0:52

Let's uh just do a couple little icebreakers and and you just tell me how'd you get started into the fitting thing.

SPEAKER_01 0:58

Well, I kind of wanted to correct you there at the beginning of your intro, because when you said professional fitter, I think I think you have to actually get paid to be qualified as a professional, and I'm not sure I've ever actually been paid to actually fit. So and I and I don't really know if I'm I'm that good or not. So but thank you for the compliment.

SPEAKER_04 1:17

When your name came across, the person that gave it to me, he said he's gonna deny you and he's gonna say, you know, I'm not that great, I'm not that great, but I think you've got the track record to back it up.

SPEAKER_01 1:27

We try hard. We try hard, I'll say that. I guess really to be how I got into it is quite honestly, I was kind of born into it. So I am one of four kids, so I have an older sister and an older brother, and then a younger sister. And so I'm I'm number three of four kids. And actually, my brother and I are the middle two, and there's 11 years between us. And so, but as I got it started showing, my brother Tracy, being 11 years older, you know, when he graduated high school, and then as he got really as he got into college is when he started to kind of clip and fit, and and he actually got to got started with some of those bigger firms, you know, and going around clipping seal cattle and things like that. It really just kind of snowballed for him, and he's actually made a a lifelong career out of it, just trading show steers and and raising some. And and so honestly, I got my start from him because the uh because of that age gap between us, right? So so you gotta think when I was like 15, Tracy would have been 26, and so he he was kind of established and going. And I do remember um um, and a name you've probably heard of, and a lot of us have heard of, is uh Kirk Stirwalt. Well, when I was 16, my birthday present that year was to go to Kirk's place for one of his clinics, right? Nice at his place in Leedy, Oklahoma. And actually I'd always heard of Kirk growing up, um, because we live in Cordon, Iowa, and so Kirk grew up in Sheraton, so he's kind of just the next county north of us. And I mean, growing up, Kirk's still a legend, but really growing up when I did, he was really a legend. You know, he was he was kind of one of the OGs in in in the clip and show cattle thing. And and so it was really neat. And I do remember before I went to Kirk's, I honestly hadn't clipped that much. And my brother, Tracy, he was like, Well, you gotta you're gonna have to clip some before you go to Kirk's. We can't just have you go in there and look really dumb. Like you need to clip some. The kids nowadays have such an advantage because of the the clipper, just the technology, right? The equipment and everything has evolved, and so now we have, you know, when the Andy's two speeds come out, that was huge, right? And then we went from Andy's two speeds to Andy's five speeds, and now like I use the um it's not the pulse, it's the next generation after that, but the cordless clippers that you can still run with a, you know, you can put a cord on it and still keep clipping, is what we kind of use now. When I started, none of that was around. So I started with the old sheep heads, and I actually have a really cool scar from our very first clipping job when I was like 16, that like that summer when I come back from Kirks, where I a steer kicked me and I ran my arm into a pair of sheep heads and cut me pretty dang good. A couple ER visits and and stuff and clamps on veins and stuff later. And uh that was kind of my first hired experience, I guess. Um, but that's essentially that's where I got started was was being the younger brother of Tracy. I do think some of clipping and it is uh an art, and you have to be able to honestly, I think the biggest thing to to clip an animal, I don't care what species it is, and I think this this doesn't only apply to the fitting or the clipping, but just being a good manager of livestock, whether it's through the nutrition or whatever, you first have to be a good evaluator. And because you you have to be a good enough evaluator to see what flaws. I I I'm pretty sure the good Lord hasn't made a perfect one yet. He's made some great ones, but not a perfect one.

SPEAKER_04 5:07

That's what everyone keeps telling me.

SPEAKER_01 5:09

Exactly. So like you have to be able to be a good enough evaluator to see what holes are in your livestock, and then try to, you know, show off their positive attributes and cover their negative attributes. And so I think you know, a lot of people, you know, will clip them all the same way, and I think the the key to it to do it at a high level is to be able to do it correctively.

SPEAKER_04 5:32

Right. So what species are you working with right now? I I know you and I have talked a little bit in the past uh when we were trying to get this all scheduled. You said you said your brother's pretty diehard for the for the cattle, but you're like, yeah, you know, I kind of like the challenge of the other species. So what are you working on now?

SPEAKER_01 5:50

So it's kind of been a a um what's the word I want to use? But it's kind of been a uh we've had some transitional phases, I guess, in our life. I grew up showing cattle and predominantly just cattle, right? And that's what our family's always done. And my wife, Bridget, and I have four kids. And now, like I say professionally when when I'm talking with guys I work with on the biozyme team and stuff, I'm kind of like the aging out show dad. Because actually, like my kids are kind of some of the older kids of us guys that work together, but our kids are are what are they 25, 21, uh 20, and 17. So we're down to one showman. Trey, the youngest, is a junior in high school, so we have this this year and one more left, and uh, so I'm kind of the aging out show dad. So we've done a little bit everything. I grew up predominantly just doing the cattle and showing predominantly steers. Um, but then as my girls, my oldest, my girls are my two older ones. As the oldest one, Chloe, got into 4-H, I actually had a good friend of mine uh that was working for me at the time uh in the fall when we had a calf sale, Tyler McVeigh. Him and his mom TJ started raising some show goats. And so we kind of got he he was like, Hey, we're raising these goats. I'd love you to try, you know, you should get a goat from us. Right. And I thought, hey, this is perfect. This will be a a a laid-back, low stress county fair project. And it it was exactly that for one year, right? And then it was like, okay, we we gotta figure out how to do this better. And so, really, the the girls were my goat showmen, and uh we actually got pretty competitive, and and they were they were very fortunate to compete at a high level with the goats, you know. And Chloe, the oldest one, she showed several cattle too, but really Chloe and Morgan were both really known for showing the goats, so we got into that. Tyson is the older boy. Tyson's kind of like your all-around guy. He he was always kind of the workhorse, never won um quite as many shows, but he he was the one that did a little bit of everything. He he enjoyed the cattle, he showed a few sheep, he showed some goats, he even showed a pig a year or two in there. Um, and that was kind of something that was fun and new. Um, but then we get to the youngest one, Trey, and he kind of watched all of his siblings, you know, do different things. And that's with Trey, is where we got more more serious about the sheep and and tried to take a little better stab at it and try to be, you know, just become more competitive as a family. And so Trey kind of got into the sheep, and and he's he's been able to show them on a very high level too. So we've done a little bit of everything. You know, I tell a lot of people, you give me anything with a room in it, and I feel like I can manage it fairly good. The pigs, you know, I don't mind dabbling in it a little bit, but boy, I sure don't know what I'm doing there. Uh that's that's kind of outside my which now they are starting to fit and clip them things a little bit more. So maybe that plays into us a little bit more as a family. I don't know.

SPEAKER_04 8:55

Yeah, when I was raising pigs, we just took them right out of the lot, washed them probably for the first time before they went to the fair, you know. We didn't walk them and we didn't do any of that stuff. It was just like, yep, off to the fair.

SPEAKER_01 9:06

Yeah. So so now we're kind of it's kind of a we're in a at a point as a family right now, it's kind of been like a full circle type thing. Trey's back to focusing on the steers more, and then and then still continuing to show the sheep. We're not gonna have, I mean, it's not it's not May 15th, or it's not weighing day yet, but as of now, we're not gonna have any goats on feed this year. Uh so we're really just gonna focus on his on his steers, maybe a heifer or something along the way, but he's kind of focusing on the steers and the sheep is is kind of what our focus is now as a family.

SPEAKER_04 9:38

Right on. What's a typical show season look like for you? Like when do you guys start? And I mean, you've probably got animals on feed now, but when do you start and when does it end?

SPEAKER_01 9:48

Honestly, it never stops.

SPEAKER_04 9:50

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 9:50

For us, it's year-round.

SPEAKER_04 9:52

A new batch of animals.

SPEAKER_01 9:54

It it is. Especially so I will say like on the small ruminants, and so like like where we're talking now, where we're gonna kind of talk more specifically on the sheep and the cattle. You know, the sheep, we're in the middle of sale season right now, as you know. And you know, some of them sales started a month or or or two months ago, you know, and they'll go through here what were the 11th day of March, and it'll go on to April a little bit. And so you do get a little bit of a break on them. Us as a family, you know, we're purchasing those sheep this time of year, and then we will show them through the summer and probably into the fall. We we have pretty well, we'll either end at Kansas City, which is October, or we'll end at Louisville, which is in November. And so you do get a little bit of a break on the sheep, you know, maybe two to three months of the year. The cattle deal never stops for us because we will show them just about not that we show them year-round, you know, because it seems like we you it's just a longer feeding period on the cattle, right? You purchase them things in the fall, and and we will show, you know, we'll get we we've been doing some jackpots. We went to beef expo. We're gonna try to get another one that hasn't been out, try to get him to another jackpot, but then it's gonna be time to put those things away. And they go in the cooler and and then they get prepped, and we have to start a hair cycle all over and and get our timing right for our endpoint. But that's kind of the nice part about doing multiple species, is when it's time to put one away, it's kind of time to bring another one out and start jackpotting, right? With those those small ruminants, and so we'll do some of that too. Uh, but the cattle, you know, we'll gear them things for summer, you like Midwest State Fairtime. Um, and then we can go on into fall, whether it's exorbitant in September. Actually, the past few years, we just came back in January from a very successful trip. We like taking steers out to the National Western in Denver in January. And so, like if you had, you know, say a state fair-sized one, you know, and you kind of end them early fall or late summer, well, that's kind of the time of year you're starting to work on those Denver sized steers and getting their hair cycle started to go to that show.

SPEAKER_04 12:07

Sure. On the same note, I'm just curious because my I I was never into the sheep thing. This is new to us, but my wife said, you know, when they were lambing for their July fair, you know, they would start lambing mid-January to the end of January or whatever. And now, you know, since I've gotten into this and paying attention, I'm seeing a lot of fallborns and then pushing, you know, into the December's, Januaries, and and that's probably a lot of what what are selling now. Mm-hmm. But how long can you hold a lamb, you know, like and keep them in condition?

SPEAKER_01 12:42

Uh not only a lamb, but I think this applies to any species. It's all about maturity, right? And sometimes, you know, you might purchase one because because the other part is we're we're buying livestock so much younger all the time. We're showing them older and we're buying them younger. And so, like, even if you hey, it used to be like, tell me when your fare is, and they'll tell you what week they want them born, right?

SPEAKER_03 13:05

Yeah, right.

SPEAKER_01 13:06

And now, like, the window has widened because I think there's a few different factors in that. I think one, we've probably bred little performance out of a lot of our livestock and just trying to make those more exotic zoo creatures, you know, they're kind of slower performing, they're later maturing. And the other part of it is there's not a magic number as far as the target weight. There's not a magic number. Like you can in a sheep deal, you know, you can have a 128-pounder win a big show, or you can have a hundred and forty nine-pounder win a big show, you know, as long as they're right compositionally, you know, I I think we just have a bigger window on things.

SPEAKER_04 13:44

Yeah, and so you think the same could be said for the cattle?

SPEAKER_01 13:47

Absolutely. Yeah. I mean, yes, I mean, we always try to relate back. Is there a correlation between the commercial industry and the show industry? And you know, you can kind of justify or talk out of both sides of your mouth on that because you know, like the hot carcass weights, we've taken they've taken away the commercial industry's taken away those docks on those heavy carcasses now. And and so the real I mean, they can be as big as you want. And and the other thing is like age, and not only not only you're gonna have a bigger animal, but just that maturity, you know, that maturity and how they look phenotypically, you know, maturity in time helps with with foot and bone size. It helps with skeletal design, you know, not having to and I think sometimes we're making them, I think the most common approach is we're probably starting with older animals and doing more of a slow feed on them instead of just hammering them away and getting them to gain as fast as we can. Because yeah, a lot of times, and I'll and I don't care what species it is, you know, the harder you you push an animal and and the more rapidly they gain is probably when you're gonna see the most structural problems arise, you know, and so kind of taking that low and slow approach to feeding projects will probably get you farther down the road.

SPEAKER_04 15:10

Yeah, that's interesting to hear because I'm in the mindset of like the producer type, and it's like just like you said, we gotta push, push, push them. At the rate we're going, I'm looking at like, I think we're probably gonna end up with 1500 pound calves that come fair time. Well, maybe I need to reevaluate too and and back off a little, slow them down a little.

SPEAKER_01 15:31

I tell you what, anymore, 1500 pounders just getting big enough. You know, I mean that's just the world we're in now. It used to be when I I showed my kids say in the 1900s, I call it the 90s. Right. But like when I showed, you like you wanted to steer to weigh 1280. Like that was the magic number. You wanted to get him at 1280. And you know, there I think it was a couple Christmases ago we watched we watched a home video from like the 1994 Iowa State Fair steer show, and they look like prospects now, right? You know, they just look like jackpot kiffs, like they didn't look ready at all. So it's been quite the evolution.

SPEAKER_04 16:08

Well, that's interesting to to hear. Let's get into a little bit of testing your knowledge and and see what you have to say. Let's say I brought you an animal. Can you tell from the first time you see it? Like, have they been putting in the work or not, you know, at home? Is there anything like that that just stands out?

SPEAKER_01 16:24

100%.

SPEAKER_04 16:26

Like tell me about it.

SPEAKER_01 16:28

It it's pretty easy, you know, and I see that on livestock. So, like, we've never raised sheep and we just show sheep. But the the two species in the cattle and the goats that we have raised, sold to families, and then helped them, you know, provided service and and helped them with their project. It really for both of them I can tell right away like how much time has been spent. It's not only just um what their hair's like, you know, or what kind of shape their hair's in, but there's just their body condition, you know, like how well they've been fed, overall general health of the animal, you know, have these things kind of been neglected or have they been pampered? And and then you can really tell it um when you do a little showmanship session, you can really timely tell if the time's been put in or not. Um, I don't care what species it is, there is nothing that um I think is neater than a young person or an animal that's bonded and that are truly a team. Um, and whether it's a goat, pig, sheep, steer, cattle, you know, heifer, when they're like meshing and like they're a unit, like that's one of the neatest things in the world for me just to to see.

SPEAKER_04 17:40

Yeah, I I feel like we're behind the eight ball a little bit this year. I mean, it's our first year too, so I can't really I don't have anything to measure it against, but I just feel like we're behind. We've been trying to get the house closed and get moved, and conditions weren't quite right, and it's been cold, and then it's been nice, and you know, I can make all the excuses I want. What I'm asking is, am I behind? You know, we're we're probably this next week we're gonna start washing. I haven't washed our calves yet. We've washed them on and then uh we're gonna start wrapping legs on sheep this next week once we get them moved. We're trying to get everything moved to the new house, but Yep. Am I behind?

SPEAKER_01 18:16

On the sheep, no. We haven't started yet. I mean, we're still kind of in the you know, just recently purchased and haven't even got them home yet. And so, but as soon as they as soon as we bring something in, that's when we start.

SPEAKER_03 18:29

Gotcha.

SPEAKER_01 18:29

You know, to talk on the sheep a little bit. Like I tell people if you want them to look like a show sheep, you better treat them like a show sheep. So like if we bring one in, if they're not if they haven't been to like a live sale where they've been slicked off or something, we go ahead and rough shear them right away, we blanket them right away, and we start on legs right away. You know, there's some and I think maybe the most important part than doing all that is immediately start that bonding process. You know, I don't know, like Philip, you had Philip on on an episode, and I don't know if he mentioned it or not, but like a lot of us call it bucket time on those sheep or goats or even the pigs, you know, and that's just hey, get that young person in that pen with that animal and sit on a bucket and let them start um let them start that bonding because if you don't get that bond, boy, it's gonna be a hard to do a lot of things moving forward, right? Just going through that breaking process. So we kind of start immediately, you know, the kies. A lot of times, depending on where you're gonna purchase your kies, you a lot of times you do that in the fall, or you might do it later in the winter or something. But majority of those sales are in the fall, and uh, you know, a lot of them animals are started, and I see a lot of maybe a mistake that a lot of families do is they'll they'll go somewhere, look at cattle in a sale, and I would say majority of them are like started, not fully broke, right? Right. They're kind of broke to tie, broke to work on, um, more than likely probably not broke to lead much. Um, but they're kind of started. And I think uh a mistake I see a lot of families do is they think, well, you know, he's kind of broke. Almost like kick him out in the pen for three months and expect him to act the same way when I go back to him, right?

SPEAKER_03 20:12

Right.

SPEAKER_01 20:13

Uh and so I think um, you know, every day's a good day to start if you haven't. So we're we we try to get right on the ball as soon as we get a project in.

SPEAKER_04 20:22

Yeah. No, that that's good information. We are right where you're talking. The sheep are acclimated to Austin. That they're gonna be her project, and then the calves are started broke. So yeah, that's you hit the nail on the head. What are some of the most common problems you see with newer families?

SPEAKER_01 20:42

Honestly, I think they just don't know what they don't know. You know what I mean? And and and there's things that they don't think about. You know, I do like some speaking engagements and clinics and stuff, just not only my work professionally with biozyme, which is Vitafirm and SureChamp and DuraFirm, those brands, might also do some stuff with like Weaver Livestock on their pro staff, and I've done clinics with them before. You know, like the biggest things, you know, everybody's gonna talk about um just gentle animal husbandry, uh, and that's as as far as your housing, um, you know, what kind of an area do you have, your kind of your setup, doing all that, right? And then so there's gentle animal husbandry, there's there's animal health, right? So we can talk about protocols for whether it's vaccination, deworming, you know, parasite control, and then we'll talk about kind of like daily routines, right? And then we'll talk, and that's kind of your your working hair or working leg wool, no matter what species you're talking about. There's a there's a daily routine section, and then there's um kind of your health, your your nutrition, right? And making sure those things are on track for your targeted endpoint. And I think a lot of people, the biggest mistake they make when they get started is there's something they never even thought of. That maybe more seasoned families, it's been part of their protocol. Um, and and I honestly think I guess the biggest recommendation is there's a lot of knowledge out there and there's a lot of resources for knowledge, but then the biggest um maybe recommendation I can make to those new families is just like find your people, right? Um, find your people that you want to do business with, that you want your kids around, and learn from them. Because whatever animals you're talking about, whether it's a cattle breeder or a or a trader or a sheep breeder or a goat breeder, somebody raises show pigs, they know their genetics and they also know where that animal's at as far as its development or stage of life when you purchase it, right? And so I think a couple of the biggest, most important questions a family can ask when they get a new project is no matter who they bought that from, is hey, what are they eating and what do you want us to feed them, right? And I think that's probably maybe question number one, because that breeder is gonna know we don't want to be changing feeds or supplements or anything too rapidly on these things. They're gonna know what what their genetics kind of thrive on, or at least have an idea. And then like there's multiple show feed companies out there and they all have quality products, and then sometimes it just boils down to hey, what's available in your area, right? So do a little research, do a little research on on what you have access to and kind of make those decisions that way. But you know, I I think just that general animal husbandry, the nutrition side of it, that needs to be probably your priority number one. Show livestock isn't cheap, right? And it's an investment, and and then the health side and just taking care of them is the best way to protect that investment, right?

SPEAKER_04 23:50

So uh the recurring theme that I'm catching from everyone that I've talked to is like find your people, find your people and just keep using them.

SPEAKER_01 23:59

Yeah, and and it's not only like, and I'll just say this, and then this might some people might like this, some people might not. That's okay.

SPEAKER_03 24:07

Right.

SPEAKER_01 24:07

Um, I think one of the best things and one of the worst things in our industry currently is this team mentality, right? I I think it's an absolutely phenomenal thing um to be on a team, because I think that's the best and most rapid way to gain knowledge, right? But just because you're say you're in kind of one club or one group, don't mean you can't be open or talk to another. You know, that's that's the only thing that I see it as a negative is sometimes it's like, well, you know, they they get their stock from so-and-so, so we're not going to associate with them. I I don't like that part of it. Um for me as a family, and it's probably it's probably my upgrad upbringing or my background. I just like to study people that are successful, and that's that was the funnest part for us. You know, we grew up around the cattle, so we've always been around the cattle, but the goats were new, the sheep was totally new to us, and I really enjoy just like paying attention to those families that are winning, seeing what I can learn from them, and seeing, hey, what little beats bits and pieces I can gather and take home and apply to to our projects, right? And so, like, don't find your people definitely, but don't don't be not open to suggestions, if that makes sense.

SPEAKER_04 25:31

And I I would say, and this is just my upbringing, if someone in your circle is telling you you can't or shouldn't talk to somebody else because they don't participate in a certain way, probably not the great people to be around.

SPEAKER_01 25:45

You're probably in the wrong circle.

SPEAKER_04 25:46

Yes, right.

SPEAKER_01 25:48

Exactly.

SPEAKER_04 25:48

Well, that's just me.

SPEAKER_01 25:49

Yeah.

SPEAKER_04 25:50

Let's let's break down some of the foreign language that you and and uh judges tend to have. It's like uh well, I don't know, your own little language that you guys have back and forth. But like I'm just spitballing here. These are ones that I've heard, but cover and bloom and freshness and that kind of thing. Can you break break some of that down for me? What what does that even mean?

SPEAKER_01 26:11

A cover, bloom, freshness. To me, all those are kind of the same thing, right? Okay. So so cover is any market animal, you're gonna see a judge handle them. I mean, I don't I don't think they handle pigs, but but the other three species, you know, they're definitely gonna handle them. And so cover is really just fat cover on those last on those last ribs, particularly like on cattle, you know, between the 12th and 13th, when the judge walks up and handles them. Cover is just really composition, it's how much subcutaneous fat they have.

SPEAKER_02 26:42

Okay.

SPEAKER_01 26:43

Bloom is is honestly bloom, is just another word to describe the exact same thing as cover. Freshness would honestly be kind of the opposite of cover, right? That's probably a leaner, more raw animal that's just fresher in their appearance. They're probably a little more attractive fronted. There's a million different ways, I think, and and judges seem like it's almost a contest to come up with new terms. Right. You know, that that I can see from the outside are are can be very, very confusing for new families.

SPEAKER_04 27:13

Is there any others that you can think of that I haven't covered? Like, I don't know. You know, they talk about soundness and that kind of thing.

SPEAKER_01 27:20

Yeah, I mean, if you want to try to come up with the newest terms, I suppose Google Google Ryan Rash, they could probably come up with the the newest, most out there terms as far as judges, but like in the hog deal, I hear they talk about weird, like a weird-headed one. I have no idea what that means, honestly. Right. But that's kind of interesting. I guess if I have a kind, especially like in the sheep deal, I didn't think I had a kind, but I've been told I definitely have a kind.

SPEAKER_02 27:47

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 27:48

Bells and whistles. The extras.

SPEAKER_02 27:51

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 27:52

I am all about the extras and the bells and whistles.

SPEAKER_04 27:55

What are extras?

SPEAKER_01 27:57

So like um like feature. So like the shaggy big legged. Okay. Look like they have a like a like a gypsy horse or a Clydesdale, you know, draft horse legged.

SPEAKER_02 28:08

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 28:11

I like the the exotic, freaky chested, freaky nick, good-looking ones, you know, that are kind of kind of out there, look like a zoo creature. You know, a lot of people asked me when we were raising a lot of goats, which we don't have them anymore, but um, you know, we have a lot of that our customer base was crossover families, right? I mean, and it was pr predominantly like cattle families. They're like, Yeah, let's try a goat. And they're like, they would come to like our open houses or our online sales to, you know, and come to the farm and look at it. And and a lot of those families that might be their first time looking at a show goat, and they're like, What's a good goat look like? And I said, when they don't look like a goat, you know, like when they look like a little I always said a really good goat is like the cross between a uh a show lamb and a show steer, right? If they're just kind of that bold, burly look, but still kind of geeky neck like a lamb, if you can make them not look like a goat. And a lot of that probably stems back to the hip structure on the goats, which we have the past 10, 15, 20 years, we have come so far genetically uh on that species. Um, we have changed them dramastic. And it's you know, that's everything's gonna evolve and everything's gonna progress, you know, as a as an industry and as a species. I think it's all about progression and every generation should be getting better. If you're not going forwards, you're going backwards. So trying to make every generation better.

SPEAKER_04 29:35

When we talk about some of these different characteristics, say, you know, I come out of the ring and Judge says, you know, X, Y, and Z, is there any of that stuff that you can change with supplements, really, or not?

SPEAKER_01 29:47

Or 100% you can.

SPEAKER_04 29:49

Okay.

SPEAKER_01 29:50

So I have been I've kind of been in the animal nutrition business for several years now. So I mean, just to talk briefly about what I do currently, I work for Biozyme Incorporated. And so Biozyme is the mother company of VitaFirm. VitaFirm is our CalCaff mineral and supplement line. DuraFirm is our small ruminants, so that's sheep and goats. Um, we have an equine line called Vitalize, and then one that you might be familiar with is our SureChamp brand. Surechamp is our is it's multi-species show products, right? And so I part of what I get to do for a living is kind of I I try to be a consultant more than a salesperson, okay? And I see so many families, I'll come and do a farm visit or something and look at their livestock, and you know, I'll just ask them, like, hey, like, tell me what they're on. And when we and I like you, I mean, we could spend hours on supplements, right? But just to put it in generalities, I think the biggest thing you you gotta figure out, and it kind of goes back to our beginning, you have to be an evaluator first, right? Because if if you don't know what is wrong with your project, then you don't know what needs fixed. So we're gonna be an evaluator first, and then you gotta have kind of a general grasp of what some supplements do, right? And you have to kind of decide, okay, does the does the the function or or the kind of the objective of this supplement match my animal? Is that something they need? Because I see a lot of times with families, I'll go, I'll go into their barn and I'm like, hey, you know, tell me what this one's on. And they'll list off one base feed and like four different supplements. And I'm like, why are you doing that? And a lot of times it might be a little bit of information overload, right? Well, so and so told us so-and-so told us to use this, and so-and-so, and then this other person told us to use this one, and so that we've taken four different opinions and we did them all. Well, the thing about supplements is I try to, you know, I I would say I'm very much uh ADHD minded. I'm like my wife will just tell me, like, you just do one thing and finish it before you move on to the other thing. Because I'll try to do like 17 things at once and I don't get any of them done. That's kind of what supplements are right, like, right? If you can so pick out first what's my animal need. So we're we're gonna have we're gonna be an evaluator first and identify what needs changed on that animal, then have a good enough grasp of a supplement lineup of know what product I need to help that animal with that flaw, and do one thing at a time. Okay. Now I'm not saying you can only feed one supplement because there's a lot of supplements that do different things. You know, you can feed a joint supplement, a hair supplement, and a gut health supplement all at the same time. Yes, those don't contradict each other. But a lot of these supplements, if they're outside of a gut health, outside of a hair or follicle stimulant, and you can kind of break the rest of them down to they're either fat positive, fat neutral, or fat negative. And so they're either going to put fat on, not affect the fat cover, or take fat cover off, burn fat, right? Sure. And so just make sure you have a good enough understanding of what you're feeding because it does zero good to feed a fat positive supplement at the same time you're feeding a fat negative supplement because they contradict they contradict each other, and so you're really not doing any good for your animal at all. So I think the biggest thing is go back, be an evaluator, and then get a good enough grasp of a supplement lineup to identify which ones you need.

SPEAKER_04 33:42

So this is my first year, and I don't know any of this stuff. I'm learning some of it right now, but do I need to know all this stuff or do I just need to have somebody like you in my pocket?

SPEAKER_01 33:52

Both. Both, I honestly think. Because I'm big about progression, right? So, like this year for you guys as a family, honestly, it's all about baseline data, right? And it's just about establishing that baseline and getting a feel for it and having a positive experience. Now, when you and I have a conversation a year from now, the number one objective for next season is to be better than this year, right?

SPEAKER_04 34:19

One thing I keep hearing is that you can't supplement your way out of poor daily management.

SPEAKER_01 34:24

Yeah.

SPEAKER_04 34:25

Why is I would agree with that? Why is the daily thing the consistency? Why is it so important?

SPEAKER_01 34:31

I tell you, kind of a phrase I coined a few years back, um, and it was actually working with working with where we get our lambs. And and this is actually with everything we do, it's not just our sheep, but any animals that are in our barn. Is I I kind of come up with this thing, I call it rule number one. And if you focus on rule number one, there's a lot of other things that just fall into place, right? My rule number one is I just want us to be considered a good home. I want us to be considered a good home that breeders want to get livestock in our barn. I want to be us, I want us to be considered a good home as far from the viewpoint of other families that we're competing against. Essentially everything falls under rule number one. Your health, your daily routine, your showmanship, your approach, everything, honestly, everything involved with these projects falls under rule number one. If you focus on being a good home and you provide the best for your livestock, let the chips fall where they may when you walk in the ring, to be honest. You can't, you cannot supplement your way out of a bad management. That's 100% true. And you can't supplement your way out of mediocre livestock either. You know, a lot of times people people almost take supplements and put them on a pedestal like they're a magic wand. And the reality of it is there is no magic wands, and there's not something that can fix everything, right? But it's about just taking bits and pieces and using them as tools. Um, you know, I I've said, you know, like raising the goats, and you know, we have to look at even these lambs, you have to look at them things at such a young age. It's almost like, and to me, the cattle are the same way too, and I really can't speak to the pigs as I normally don't know what I'm looking at on them. But that animal on the sheep and goats, I will say four weeks of age. You know, most of these things are being marketed at six to eight to you know, weeks. The goats are probably getting marketed a little bit later uh in age. But that four weeks of old four weeks of age on the sheep and goats will at least give you a pretty good indication of genetic potential before environment screws it up. And environment might make it better and it might make it worse, right? That animal could be on just a mediocre mothering, milking mom, it could get sick, or that thing could hit the creep feeder, do a hunter, and everything goes right and it gets better, right? But I think the biggest thing in when we think about as we near the end of a project or or as we get close to that target show, and maybe this is just me, I really revert back to my memory of when I picked that animal out, you know, and vice versa. When I'm picking an animal out, I'm really trying to project that thing, what he's gonna look like when it comes time for my target show, right? And I think sometimes we can make too many excuses for livestock when they're little, like, uh, this one gets on feed. And it's not only just the feeding side of it, you know, you might go to a pasture sale and there's a lot of guys like, well, I take that thing home, give him a bath and clip him, he's gonna look a lot better. You know, sometimes I think we're all guilty of making too many excuses for livestock, and so I think we we just gotta kind of read them because essentially they just become bigger versions of themselves. And so back to the supplement part of the question, like when you bought one and you knew he didn't have enough muscle, and you get a month out from the fair, and you're like, boy, this thing don't have enough muscle. I need to find a supplement that fixes it.

SPEAKER_03 38:18

Right.

SPEAKER_01 38:18

You might find a supplement that'll help it, but you're not gonna find a supplement that fixes it, right? So I really just revert back as far as the management part, that I revert back to that rule number one and try to be a good home because everything falls underneath that. And I I I've told my kids, like our kids have been I I grew up showing and I had a very successful show career. My kids have been way more successful than I was, and to me that's just part of the progression, right? And even with my siblings, like Sarah and I being the younger ones, well, we were way more successful than Gina and Tracy were showing older than us. Well, their experience, Sarah and I benefited from their experience, right? Yeah, so yeah, and so it's all about to me, it's all about progression because we put too much emphasis on the color of the ribbon or what the judge said. We're spending spending a year working on these projects, and that guy standing in the ring with a cowboy hat or tie or whatever he's wearing, he gets a snapshot. You know, you know, he only sees about 15 minutes worth of the 12 months of the year. And not to say that we don't need to have the competition and we don't need to have the criticism and the judgment, and you know, kind of the the day of reckoning, but I'm just saying I don't think we need to use how we did in the show to evaluate whether our project was successful or not.

SPEAKER_03 39:47

Sure.

SPEAKER_01 39:48

You know what I mean?

SPEAKER_03 39:48

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 39:49

And it and it goes to me, it goes back to as a family, like how much planning you did and and kind of like what your expectations are. You know, I'm I'm huge about setting goals. It's something we do with our kids each year when we talk about purchasing projects or or which ones we're gonna keep, you know, what is our goal? We can set whatever goals, but if we don't go after the right animal to achieve that goal, it's probably not gonna be attainable.

SPEAKER_04 40:16

So, in light of uh talking about consistency and uh just your daily, what are what are some good daily habits that separate good animals from average ones? Like, how important is rinsing, you know, daily or once a week, you know. I'm we're we're we're new to this.

SPEAKER_01 40:34

Yep, I'm not trying to dance around it, Tom, but I I will say this. We went our family as a whole. I'm talking like mom and dad to their kids, to their now grandkids showing. We went a generation, we went an entire generation, and I I will say it's pretty much like my younger sister and I. We went that generation being successful on elbow grease, okay? Because we worked hard and we we honestly just tried to out hustle and outpresent everybody else. And we were very successful doing that, right? Through progression, evolution of the industry, everybody's good at it now, right? And that's not enough. So you have to get an animal that has the potential to be good enough, and then you have to check all the other boxes, you have to manage them properly, you have got to have their daily care rinsing, hair has got to be on point. Showmanship, I don't care what species it is, it matters, and it matters a whole bunch. I mean, and some kids, I've seen some kids that work really hard that just don't have it, and I see other kids that work maybe not as hard and they have it. Like there's just like that show ring presence and that look. I will admit, our youngest one, when he walks in the ring, like I gotta tell him you have to act like you enjoy this. Right. Because sometimes he'll be guilty of walking in and almost like, I dare you to beat me.

SPEAKER_03 42:00

Right.

SPEAKER_01 42:01

And I love the intensity, right? We just have to maybe like whoa, pull back the rings just a little bit sometimes. So many families in this industry are doing this at such a high level that like you can't stub your toe on any one aspect and expect to be at the highest level of the game. So I mean, you kind of have to do it all, but but I don't want that to be discouraging to new families either. You know, I'm not gonna say because you haven't done it doesn't mean it's possible. Anyone can win any show at any time. I have said that for years.

SPEAKER_03 42:32

Right.

SPEAKER_01 42:34

But I think what's the old quote, the harder you work, the luckier you get.

SPEAKER_02 42:38

Yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_01 42:39

That that's definitely true, right? And and we just try to put ourselves in a spot as a family to work hard enough to have the opportunity to get lucky enough if something happens. Um, you know, like we went to Denver in January, Trey Show to steer. Um, it was a very, very nice KIF and we had an awesome, awesome trip. Um, he ended up winning class seven out there, and like we were kind of in the mix, right? Yep. To me, that was a win.

SPEAKER_02 43:07

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 43:07

Just just to be in the mix is a win. Because if you're just in the mix, really it's just about luck, whether you won or not.

SPEAKER_03 43:16

Right.

SPEAKER_01 43:16

But but if you but if you do everything, you check the boxes and you put yourself just in the mix, then you're in that spot to where you could have the opportunity to get lucky enough to win.

SPEAKER_04 43:26

So um you and I talked off air earlier about if someone wants to learn some of this stuff from you, you've got a clinic coming up. If anybody is in the Iowa or Iowa adjacent area. Let's talk about that real quick and get that out there.

SPEAKER_01 43:44

I had just forgot about that one when you started to talk about it, Tom. But no, the main event sale in Des Moines was it the 20th and 21st of March for several years, and that's that's through Weaver, uh Weaver livestock, uh Trey Miller. Trey is from Ohio, T KM. Show lambs. Trey's a good friend of mine. Him and I have done a clinic together at that sale, at the main event sale. And I I believe it's on Friday afternoon, the 20th, is when we when we will do that. But that'll be kind of open to the public. Anyone attending that sale, feel free to come come by and listen to us. Usually at that one, we'll visit a lot about like since we're at a live sale, um, and it's a sheep and goat live sale put on them by SC. We'll talk a lot about bringing those animals home, getting them started right, and then we'll talk about some of the weaver products that we use as far as daily management and and things that way. But it's all about bringing that animal home, keeping them healthy, getting them on feed, and kind of starting that breaking process and and kind of starting into those daily routines.

SPEAKER_04 44:46

Yeah, and when you were telling me about that, I think it was that you said, I don't know, man. I don't know if we're gonna keep doing it. It feels pretty repetitive.

SPEAKER_01 44:53

Yeah, yeah, we were actually talking about we do one in usually May. So Hilt Brothers Showstock um up in Webster City, Charlie and Tanner Hilde. So those the two brothers, and then Bryson Stark that works very closely with them. So those three and I have done a clinic, I think, for like three years now, and it's kind of like an customer appreciation boot camp, I guess is what we've kind of coined it as. But we cover a lot, it's a day-long deal, and we were talking about it. It's like, hey, like we probably need to get a date. And it's like, hey, do we continue doing this? And for us, the guys talking about it and and doing the the kind of one-day camp or a clinic, it it feels repetitive, you know. But there's always for us it does. But for new families, or there might be families that's been there every year, and we could say the same thing every year, they're gonna have a different takeaway each time. And I think that different takeaway is really like where the where are they at as a family in their journey. Right. You know what I mean? Like what's their experience level?

SPEAKER_04 45:58

If you're if you're at stage one, you're not looking to pick up tips for stage five later on, you're kind of looking at just the stage one.

SPEAKER_01 46:06

Exactly. How do I get to stage two? Yes, yeah, exactly. So I mean those are things that I I I kind of enjoy doing them. Um I get to do them through Biozyme and Weaver and and with those guys. You know, it's it's enjoyable. You give me a kid that's got the drive and got the want to, and I will bend over backwards trying to help them. The other part that's very, very rewarding for me is watching my kids progress into that role. So I know like last year we had for like the showmanship session at that camp at Hilde's, so like we had like Riley Walker, this girl is in college now that is a neighbor of Hilde's and showed a lot of really good lambs. Uh, we had all three of the Moracle kids there, and then my son Trey, and we broke out into groups, and each of those kids had five or six young, you know, younger kids with them. Getting, I'll tell you what, Tom, getting to watch not just my own kid, but those young people talk to those younger kids and how those younger kids were hanging on their every word, that's one of the more rewarding things I've ever witnessed. You know, and the things that you grill into your own kids and you tell them all the time and you think that they're not listening, and then you see them relaying that same message onto someone younger than them, yep, that's what this thing's all about.

SPEAKER_04 47:28

So our first steer that we bought this year, we we bought one from you probably know Brent means. We bought a steer from Brent, and he said, you know, kind of the same thing. He goes, you know, hey, if if your daughter wants some help with showmanship, you know, my daughter will come over and and kind of point her in the right direction. And he just flat out said, you know, your kids aren't gonna aren't gonna listen to you. Like they're not gonna listen to anything the mom and dad have to say.

SPEAKER_01 47:52

Dad doesn't know anything, yeah.

SPEAKER_04 47:54

Yeah, and then Philip said the same thing when we picked up a lamb. He goes, Hey, you know, if you if you want some help, I can connect you with some people or you can come back down here. So you're probably right when it comes to the camps and stuff, the kids pay more attention to the kids than the adults, probably.

SPEAKER_01 48:10

Mm-hmm. Absolutely. And it's just uh that's the most rewarding part for me, watching my kids pass stuff along. I mean, I mean, I talk about Trey a lot because he's the youngest and still showing, but like he used to he would fit front legs on Kives in a weaver clinic in front of a hundred people when he was like twelve or thirteen years old. And so like so to him, it's like no big deal. And and to be honest, like so like on the cattle fitting, we've talked about like the you know, on the cattle fitting, everybody kind of starts on that front left leg and then and then you want to kind of graduate your way to a back leg and then you want to graduate your over to the the right back leg, the show side. And then when you get get old like me, you just like to do like tops and tail heads instead of bending up. Well, honestly, here lately I'm about kicked back to the front left leg. Like that's about all they let me touch anymore.

SPEAKER_02 49:04

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 49:05

Because because the kids have taken over the back legs, you know, like, hey, why don't you just go up there? Right. But I take no offense of it because I think that's the whole point to this whole thing. If our kids become better than us, I think we did something right along the way.

SPEAKER_04 49:25

I would agree.

SPEAKER_01 49:26

Yeah.

SPEAKER_04 49:26

Do you want to get into supplements at all? I mean, we talked about it just briefly, but it could be a rabbit hole.

SPEAKER_01 49:34

Yeah, we can. I mean, I can say a little bit. Uh I I can do just a little bit about like a very, very like 300,000 foot level.

SPEAKER_04 49:44

How about if someone stripped their program down to like one or two supplements, what would you keep? And and that could be like you said, like a like a joint or something like that, or or it could be for fill or whatever.

SPEAKER_01 49:56

Yep. If you want to just dabble in supplements, I think there's one thing, the most important thing you could do. And it's not just because the company I work with, but everything we do, whether it is a cow mineral or a sure champ supplement, everything we do is delivery methods for our ammo firm prebiotic. And so everything goes through the gut, right? An animal's feed efficiency and performance, that all starts in the gut. You know, we've all heard the you know, don't feed the animal, feed the bugs, right? And so having that prebiotic on board, part of part of whatever product you're feeding, that is huge. Um uh immune function and just immune system support, it all happens in the gut. And so if you are ever going to try anything, I would dang sure steer you towards a sure champ product because what we do just makes everything else work better, right? You you can you can have a fat supplement, you can have a drench, but if those things aren't in good health, in good rig, and their their gut isn't effectively working, none of it's gonna do any good. So, I mean, if you don't do anything at all supplement-wise, make sure you're on a sure champ product that really provides that gut health. And I think that's that's the that's the most important thing you could do.

SPEAKER_04 51:18

Perfect. Let's touch on feed just a little bit. And maybe there's not a difference. I have not talked to a feed rep. Um right now we're just feeding a base feed, no supplements. But in your opinion, do you think there's any difference between the advice that you get from a feed rep and what you would feed like as a fitter or recommend to people?

SPEAKER_01 51:41

Um I think the feed reps, no matter what company it is, they're they're a great resource, right? Because back to our earlier discussion, you have to have enough knowledge of what you're using and what it's designed to do to make the judgment call if that's a right fit for your animal or not. And so if nothing else, let them educate you about what their products are designed to do, and then you can kind of make that judgment call. Is it is it the right call or the right choice for my for this particular animal, or do I need to look another direction?

SPEAKER_04 52:13

Okay. Right now I've just been dependent on what our breeders, you know, that we're buying buying from. They say, hey, feed this and feed this, and okay.

SPEAKER_01 52:21

Yep, and that's the best start you can get. I mean, because for one, they know what the animal's been on, they know their genetics, and they're familiar. Not to say, I'll tell you, every show feed company has quality products. It might boil down to what's available in your area because freshness is huge, you know, and be able to get product consistently. Sometimes that's a a buying decision factor, you know, just what is at your excess in your area. Yeah.

SPEAKER_04 52:46

What's one thing that you think new families should stop doing? Like if there's just one thing that you see, what do you think they should stop doing?

SPEAKER_01 52:54

Well, I don't know. That's a tough question, Tom.

SPEAKER_04 52:56

Right. Is there anything repetitive that you've seen in the past?

SPEAKER_01 52:58

I I think the biggest thing is is don't overlook the little stuff. I think that's the biggest thing. I think they try sometimes, and this this might sound bad, that they might try to know more than they know, and they overlook like the little things, right? I preach this all the time. Water, fresh water. I'll go, I I might do a kind of a consultation call, walk into somebody's barn, and they're like, oh, we're using this feed and we're using these supplements and we're doing this and we're doing that. And then I walk by the pens and the buckets are water buckets are disgusting. You know, I'm like, and sometimes maybe it's I'm getting to the age, I'm kind of a grumpy old man. I'll look at the I might look at the chauvin or you look at the young person, I'm like, would you drink that? Right. Drinking that. And I said, why would you know why should you ask your animal to? But that to me, that's again another one that falls under that rule number one, right? Be a be a good home, because everything falls under rule number one.

SPEAKER_04 53:57

What's what's one thing that you think new families should start doing?

SPEAKER_01 54:00

Be open-minded. Yep. Be open-minded, I think is the biggest thing. There's a I mean, what's the old phrase? There's some more than one way to skin a cat. Like you can get to the same endpoint through different routes. Be open-minded and choose the route that works best for you guys.

SPEAKER_04 54:15

What's the best free improvement that you think people can make?

SPEAKER_01 54:19

The best free improvement that people can make.

SPEAKER_04 54:21

Yep. No money, you just roll out and just make a change.

SPEAKER_01 54:25

Observation. Paying attention to those who are successful and seeing what you can learn from them. And I I guarantee you this we talked about the the kind of club or group mentality, right? I guarantee if you go up to anyone at any show and you're complimentary and inquisitive, they will take the time to visit with you. I'll put money on it. Like people love to share their tips and tricks, right? And I'll I'll talk to anybody at a show. And I've had families that are newer and they come up and they're like, hey, can we, you know, can can we ask you a few things? I'm like, sure. Like, I I'm I'm an open book. I'll talk to anybody. There are you don't want to know what the biggest secret is? There are no secrets.

SPEAKER_03 55:05

Right.

SPEAKER_01 55:05

I mean, so be observant and just be willing. It it costs nothing to have a conversation. And you might walk away from a conversation like, I don't think that guy knew what he was talking about. And that's fine. It didn't cost you nothing.

SPEAKER_03 55:19

Yep.

SPEAKER_01 55:20

Or you might walk away and say, I think that guy's pretty sharp. We should probably pay attention to what they're doing.

SPEAKER_04 55:26

Before we wrap up, if a new show family that's listening today takes one thing away from our conversation, what would you want it to be?

SPEAKER_01 55:33

Find joy in the process. I love that. That is the absolute biggest thing. If you cannot find joy in the process, this industry and this game will chew you up and spit you out. And you will drive yourself mad and insane if you cannot find joy in the process. I tell my kids, and I'll I'll share just a quick story, and it's something that kind of broke my heart several years ago. I travel a lot for my job, right? And that is good and bad. It is good because I always kind of I consider myself like the keeper of the whiteboard. And so on the whiteboard, we put feeding instructions, we put exercising instructions, we put daily care instructions. The kids execute 99% of it, right? But I am I'm the keeper of the whiteboard. And so when I travel and I'm gone, and I might be gone for just a few days, I can see changes. I might adjust something on the whiteboard, and then I'm gone for three days, one week, and then three or four days, and then I come home and I'm like, I can see where this was good or this didn't work as good and adjust, right? You have to continually read your livestock and adjust. And don't just make a plan. Do not make a 90-day plan. You can make a 90-day plan, but your 90-day plan has you have to be flexible enough, flexible enough to change that 90-day plan at least weekly, maybe daily.

SPEAKER_00 57:07

Sure.

SPEAKER_01 57:08

Right? But the other part of the bad part about me traveling a lot is I'm not home as much, right? And so we live in the world of of Snapchat, and my kids will probably listen to this. But I always used to like when I was traveling, and they'll kind of know my secrets, and I'm pretty sure they've all caught on to it by now, before now, anyway. But I'd be like, hey, how's this one look? Send me a Snapchat when you get that one on the stand, right? Well, one, yes, I wanted to see the animal, but two, I want to make sure they were doing it, you know. Um, and so dad, when I travel a lot, dad's just not home as much. And the way that we kind of do our deal, it depends on what level you want to compete at, right? But we treat jackpot shows like I do not care how we do it at a jackpot show. Those are jackpot shows are dress rehearsals, right? We start off practicing at home under the shade tree, and then we go to some jackpot shows and it helps get those animals broke, and it helps the kid more trips in the ring, gets them more comfortable, gets the animal more comfortable. Do I want to do go to jackpot shows? Absolutely I do, but that's not like our ultimate goal for that animal for that year, for that season. And so we kind of treat them as dress rehearsals. Well, the way we do it at our house is we'll go out to some jackpots, but then let's just say we're gonna get something ready for like state fair time. If it's a steer, that thing's gonna get put away in first April, and he's not gonna come out till state fair time. If it's a lamb, um, I always use um what's the hall? Father's Day weekend. So Father's Day weekend, I do not like to go to a jackpot show after Father's Day weekend if I'm gonna put one away and get them ready for state fair. And there's a few different reasons for that. All animals look better on an upswing in their condition and everything. And so you have to have your timing right, you know, on on how you're feeding that animal to make them look their best for that desired endpoint. So you gotta compositionally we put them away to make sure, you know, just to make sure we're on track. Because if you keep continue to go to jackpot shows and you're drenching them heavy and doing all that, you're probably not gonna be where you need to be come for the endpoint show. The other reason we don't take lambs out past Father's Day is really skin health. Every time you take a lamb out to a jackpot show, somebody else might have some wool fungus, some ringworm, things like that, staph infection, you know, and you're just opening yourself up for problems because that guy does not, that judge does not use a Clorex wipe in between every lamb when he's handling them, right? And so you can pick up stuff that way. But from Father's Day weekend to whether your endpoint is, you know, mid to late July or a state fair in August, it's kind of the dog days of summer, right? And it gets to where it's not fun, it gets to where it's a lot of work, and you gotta keep working on it, but it's just less fun because you're not taking them out and showing them, right? And so I had come home one week, and this is like when the girls were showing goats, pretty hot and heavy. And Morgan wasn't very old, it was maybe her second, maybe third year in 4-H. So she was just either eligible for state fair that year or maybe the year after. But she was pretty young yet. I come home and I told the girls, I was like, hey, I'd like to see some goats in the yard. Let's take them out and see them, you know. And that that means it's kind of a inspection for showmanship and everything else, right? Yeah. And so we get out there, and it was just kind of about what I had probably thought it was gonna be, and maybe they'd gotten a little bit relaxed, and you know, and and I I might have maybe not the nicely nicest way, said that we need to be working harder. And Morgan being pretty young then, she kind of got upset and she says, Dad, you're just not happy if we don't win. And I mean, it wouldn't have hurt any more if you stabbed me in the heart with a with a knife, you know.

SPEAKER_03 1:01:06

Yep, yep.

SPEAKER_01 1:01:06

That one's that one's stung. And so we all just kind of sat down under the shade tree and we had a talk, right? And I told them girls, I was like, you know what, here's where I'm at. I expect a lot out of you because I know you're capable of it.

SPEAKER_05 1:01:22

Right.

SPEAKER_01 1:01:22

Right. And I said, if you do everything that I know you're capable of, and that means from your feeding, your keeping your bedding clean, your water buckets, your your hair worked, and your daily routine on that, and your showmanship, if you do everything at the highest level at that I know that you're capable of, I don't give a dang how you do in the show. Like just let the chips fall where they may when you walk in that ring. But you have to tell me, this is where I kind of put it back on them, when you walk in the ring, you need to ask yourself, have I done everything that I'm capable of to make this animal look as good as it can? You know, and so that's kind of the our approach. Um and that's kind of all those things go back to rule number one, right? Be a good home. And so that's kind of been our focus.

SPEAKER_04 1:02:13

Well, I love it. Anything else from you?

SPEAKER_01 1:02:15

On the clipping side, the best way to learn on clipping is watch people. I mean, it's no different than managing managing a project and paying attention to nutrition and all that. The best way where I learned the most about clipping was standing along beside a chute scratching for my brother. That's where I learned the most. You know. And I I will say he's I'll put him up against anybody, even though he's getting old. I'm getting old and he's getting older. I I will put that guy up against about anybody there that's ever held a set of clippers, and he can clip them as good and as fast as anybody. I've always said that if clipping was a timed event, they'd had it in rodeo. Because I'm slow, is the reason I say that. But the biggest thing about learning is be open to criticism and really watch and study, and you have to know, you have to know, have enough livestock evaluation skill to know what you're trying to make them look like, right? Sure. You know, and we we mentioned earlier about that corrective clipping, but study people and don't be afraid to pick up a set of clippers and try.

SPEAKER_04 1:03:30

Maybe that's my next purchase set of clippers.

SPEAKER_01 1:03:33

Yep. If you don't have some, you better get ready.

SPEAKER_04 1:03:35

That's right.

SPEAKER_01 1:03:36

Yeah, because there'll be time to go to jackpot shows and you'll be clipping lamb legs.

SPEAKER_04 1:03:40

That's right. Yep. Well, Troy, we really appreciate you taking the time to share your perspective and help educate people who are still learning in this industry. One of the big goals of this podcast is to help shorten the learning curve for new families, and conversations like this go a long way toward doing that. If you're listening to this episode and you found it helpful, do us a favor and share this podcast with another show family who's just getting started so more people can learn a thing or two along the way. And if you want to keep learning with us as we talk with breeders, fitters, judges, and other experts across the industry, make sure you subscribe to the Cheat Codes Podcast so you don't miss upcoming episodes. Thanks for listening, and we'll see you next time.