#12 Monsters, Gods, and One Very Long Trip Home to Big Rascals Discussing THE ODYSSEY!

In Episode 12 of Big Rascals, we discuss our TOP 5 Mythical Gods from History, Greg's Toxic HOT TAKE, and the Book THE ODYSSEY by Homer. There will be SPOILERS!!! So go read the book or wait for Christopher Nolan's movie, then make your way back here and give us a listen!

Homer's The Odyssey follows the Greek king Odysseus on his perilous 10-year journey home to Ithaca after the Trojan War. Facing angry gods, monsters, and enchantresses, he is separated from his crew. Back home, his wife Penelope and son Telemachus fight off unruly suitors attempting to usurp his throne.

We want Big Rascals to be a community or a "CLUB." So don't hesitate to Subscribe, Like, and leave a Comment or suggestion on what next book you would like us to discuss and we will do out best to accommodate. Find us on Social Media for extra content. We are also looking for Sponsors or Donors. We can be reached at bigrascals.podcast@gmail.com. We are extremely grateful for any and all support! Thank you!

For our next book to read as a club, Greg has decided on "Dungeon Crawler Carl" by Matt Dinniman.

Don't forget to check out our BONUS segment BIG RASCALS WRITING CHALLENGE where we each wrote our own "Mythical" short stories.

Keep READING, keep WRITING, and stay RASCALLY!

Transcript

SPEAKER_03 0:09

Welcome to Big Rascals, where we may be grown-ups, but we will never stop being rascals. We are a boys book club, not just for the boys, but all those who enjoy reading, writing, comedy, and entertainment. Our purpose is to have fun discovering new worlds, making friends, and finding a cure for dyslexia. Yeah, still looking for that cure. How are we doing today, guys? You bet. Oh yeah! Yeah, this is uh take number two. Yeah, we are feeling very energized. Our first take was in slow mode. So now we are just speeding things up. Yep. User air.

SPEAKER_04 0:48

I accidentally put the camera in slow mode. But luckily it shut off after like three minutes.

SPEAKER_03 0:54

Well, as my three-year-old says, anytime he makes a mistake, it happens.

SPEAKER_04 0:59

Yeah, that's a good wait. Who says that? Oh, that's uh no forecome, forward gump. That's from Angels in the Outfield. Hey, it happens.

SPEAKER_08 1:11

No, he says it could happen. Oh, yeah. It could happen. It could happen. That's right.

SPEAKER_10 1:17

You gotta believe it could happen. Great because it's a little boy talking about adoption. I know.

SPEAKER_03 1:24

It's so sad. But anyway, to our lovely viewers, welcome to our episode about the Odyssey. But before we get into that, we will have a top five. Which topic was brought to us by Jeff. By me. And then we will have a hot take, which hopefully makes us so mad by Greg bringing it on. And then we will dive into the book. So how about you tell us what our top five is, Jeff?

SPEAKER_10 1:54

Alrighty, folks. You're gonna love this top five. You got top five ancient mythological deities. Okay. I see what's happening here. Just for $5.99. You could buy five. I see what you're doing, Jeff. Okay.

SPEAKER_00 2:12

Stop.

SPEAKER_10 2:18

I'm figuring out.

SPEAKER_03 2:20

I try to shine. Like you're giving me the opportunity to do the intro.

SPEAKER_00 2:24

I'm trying to make an impression. I try to do a good job. And this is all you do.

SPEAKER_10 2:29

It's mimicry by love. Oh you appreciate it. I appreciate your enthusiasm.

SPEAKER_03 2:36

What is it? What's the word like flattery is the most sincerest form of love or something? That's not the mimicry. Yeah.

SPEAKER_08 2:44

Is the most sincere form of flattery.

SPEAKER_04 2:46

Yeah. Yeah, something like that. Yeah. Maybe we should do it on our second take always, because it seems like we're we hit this hit or stride.

SPEAKER_11 2:58

This seems a lot better than our awkward.

SPEAKER_10 3:04

Takes a little to warm. A little practice does that, for sure. Yeah. All right. Give us a talk about it.

SPEAKER_08 3:09

Top five mythological deities, not demigods, not like fictional uh beings from Brandon Sanderson's universal worlds.

SPEAKER_04 3:19

From like history. From history. From actual ancient pantheon cultures.

SPEAKER_08 3:23

From ancient cultures. Yep.

SPEAKER_04 3:24

Yep. You're gonna know a lot more about this than me. So yep.

SPEAKER_00 3:31

You nailed it in the first take, you nailed it at the second take. Great job. That was for our views.

SPEAKER_04 3:39

Yeah, you knew that line had to be in there.

SPEAKER_03 3:42

I'm trying to preface my bad list, okay? Don't worry, my list is probably a little basic.

SPEAKER_08 3:49

That's all good. This will be fun to see what you guys uh what you guys have explored in your yours out of the way since yours is probably the most in-depth.

SPEAKER_04 4:00

We'll see. Just watch. He's gonna name five we've never heard of.

SPEAKER_03 4:03

Yeah, he's gonna name he's gonna do the right leg of Exodia, the forbidden one, the left leg of Exodia the Forbidden One, the right arm of the.

SPEAKER_04 4:17

Slifer the Sky Dragon. Egyptian god cards.

SPEAKER_03 4:20

Well, you could do Ra. Ra was an actual god in Egyptian mythology. Uh he sucks. Yeah, he's not as cool as Slifer the Sky Dragon.

SPEAKER_08 4:28

Ra was just a cheat card for sure.

SPEAKER_07 4:30

Oh, absolutely busted. Has like every single time. All right, let's go. We're getting way up. Go, Joe, go.

SPEAKER_08 4:40

My turn. Okay. Yeah. So again, I I said this before. It's not gonna be in particular order for me because I like too many things and favorite things at different times.

SPEAKER_03 4:51

So your borderline polytheists.

SPEAKER_08 4:54

It's gonna be all like these are all just in a big pile, and I pick from the pile when I when I want to. Like, ooh, I like this. All right. So these are just the ones you like today. These are the ones I've piled up in my brain today. Yeah. Um, so first first things first, I'm gonna go with ancient Mayan Aztecan mythology, Kuku Klan or Ketzakwal, the feathered serpent. Just uh, I mean the the basically the dragon of ancient Mayan mythology. I've heard um yeah, it heard whatever. Yeah, I believe he's he's given the the male kind of gender in his mythology. Uh but uh I love him especially because I I've been I mean I've always loved Mayan mythology, and the story of Mayan mythology is fascinating because of how closely or how many analogies it has to Christianity. Even uh Kukul Khan himself is is described as a Christ-like figure, and this is by uh secular uh Mayan uh anthropologists when they when they talk about mythology, they just can't help but make analogies to Christ, uh in his in his appearance and even how he acts. Basically, the mythology is he came to the Mayan people in a time of dire need and taught them the ways, taught them way the ways to be good, um, to be better. And this is believed primarily talked about in the Popol Vu. And then, of course, the Mayan people uh as they strayed from his ways, and this is crazy because they admit that they strayed from the ways of Ku Kulkan and they began to fall into a wickedness, and then they fell into destruction. So fascinating history and just just amazing connection to kind of uh uh modern world uh kind of stories, but I love it. Cool and number two, I'm gonna go with uh just a little further north with the Hopi, the Hopi mythology, the Kachinas. Those that this was like something I heard when I was younger, and it just blew my mind, kind of the story behind the kachinas. Specifically, I'm not sure if I'm gonna pronounce it right, EO IO Toto, Io Toto, something like that.

SPEAKER_09 7:20

He was the the you're the archaeologist, so you're the most well-qualified at this table.

SPEAKER_08 7:28

The uh, but fascinating history with Kachina's, and and you'll love this, Greg, because it it's it's almost an alien kind of story, a story like of aliens, but alien visitation. Of course, you know, ancient aliens would probably eat this up, but um fascinating history. The the Hopi people, the ancient uh Puebloan people, they were in a time of dire need, dire crisis. There was a great drought, and they were struggling to survive, they're struggling to plant. And this is when like some just these these beings show up or appear from heaven, and they're these strange uh dressed beings, almost alien-like. I mean, you look at Kachina dolls, right here. I always got a book, but I mean they just have these like the watchers, really weird appearances with uh elaborate masks, feathers, and uh dresses, headdresses, and they um just and then and they brought the uh Hopi in the the ancestral Pueblo and they brought them pro prosperity basically. They they helped them figure out how to plant their corn to be more water efficient and to be able to survive in the desert, and became uh just this really intricate mythology, and it's just so tied to their culture even today. Um, but such a cool story, and just makes your kind of mind wonder like where did this come from? Like, what what connection to the real world is this? Like, was were these some spirits? Were they aliens? You know, what was it? Kind of fascinating to think about. Um the and then moving on to number three. This is somewhat of a duo, but primarily first one. Kronos and Rea, the titans of ancient Greece.

SPEAKER_00 9:20

Hey.

SPEAKER_08 9:21

What?

SPEAKER_00 9:22

Wait, they're a titan. Titans, not gods.

SPEAKER_08 9:25

They are gods, yes. Kronos, he he was the he was the son of, well, one, he he birthed the gods, so he's definitely a a type of god, titan god, I guess. But uh I'll give you the name. I'm gonna have to have to because you have uh Gaia, and I can't remember the I'm blanking on the name of the sky god. So, I mean, this might get a little graphic, but uh basically the sky god, and this I mean, Kronos, he's he's kind of pictured as an evil god uh because of what he did to Zeus and his siblings. But I mean it's it's ancient Greece. They all kind of have their own problems and flaws, but oh yeah, they do a lot of weird stuff. Yeah, so Gaia, the earth god and and the sky god, um, when they went to mate, the sky god basically held on to Gaia so tightly that his his parts and her parts weren't separating, and he basically had all of his children inside of her. And Kronos was the last one, and he was sick and tired of being stuck in his mother's womb, and so he basically forced his father out of his mother. And I mean the the the the the Titan story is is really just so bizarre because it's so contrasting to the Greek gods in feeling. It I mean, they just seem so it just seems so raw and like intense. Like the this had this had to be just the chaotic times of the world, almost yeah, yeah, very monstrous. And then Kronos proceeded with his wife and probably pretty much sister, Rea. Basically, uh proceeded to uh then have the the gods, but it was prophesied that uh one of and this and again how the earth or the sky got separated from the earth basically is what Kronos did. And then um when he had all of his children, he proceeded to eat all of his children, and um they were just you know sitting in his in his tummy, and um it wasn't until Zeus uh that Rea hid Zeus and fed Kronos a rock, and you know, he thinking he ate his final son, who was supposed to kill him or or usurp him, I guess he couldn't really be killed. Um and then of course that that's when Zeus is raised to then save his siblings from Kronos. But yeah, just so intense, just seems so chaotic and destructive. Just this time of turmoil. I mean, I I think a great description from the Greeks of the beginning times of like you think of the universe forming the planets, right? And how destructive uh that would seem to somebody maybe like almost visioning this. Kind of that's how I picture uh the story in general. But yeah, Kronos is pretty fascinating.

SPEAKER_03 12:11

So what you're saying is you're a big fan of the big bang theory.

SPEAKER_06 12:16

Oh yeah.

SPEAKER_08 12:17

I do I do I do I do find it interesting for sure. Um number four, we're gonna go with this. Might seem a little cheesy and pretty base, a basic, but low key. Um I think you know he he's been cool in the Marvel movies, but they also kind of overuse him, and they they kind of forget that he killed a lot of people, and they try and make him a hero.

SPEAKER_03 12:44

And it's like hey, hey, he watched a he watched a video in his series that just changed him, right? Then and there, they speed track that character growth and they forget everything out. Yeah, don't don't be dissing that character growth that he had for like 30 seconds.

SPEAKER_08 13:00

So it's like it's understandable that he killed a lot of people, but gods tend to do that, I guess. But um, I love the mythology around him that he's basically the bringer of the end of the world, like it's it's his children that are at the press precipice of bringing Ragnarok. Um, you have Svenrir, who is one of Loki's children who's chained, and he's Fenrir is so destructive that basically if he's let loose, the end times will come. Um, and so but everything that will lead up to that is everything that Loki will do. Um, so just I mean, talk about a title, right? He's the trickster god, but you're basically the harbinger of the apocalypse.

SPEAKER_03 13:42

So but also in Norse mythology, he sometimes helps the gods as well, usually for his own benefits. But it's strange how his alliances just go this way and that because he's such a mischievous character throughout Norse mythology.

SPEAKER_04 13:57

Yeah, low-key, pretty cool.

SPEAKER_08 14:00

Low-key, pretty cool. I I also do like the tie to kind of American mythology where the coyote is the trickster uh spirit. Um, and I do think there are a lot of similarities between them where um they have a lot of kind of overlapping uh stories with them that seem to overlap. Um, and then finally, number five is going to be um Dogda, who is the leader of the, and this is just such a cool name. I I wish I could use this myself and not feel like I'm just copying, but the Tuatha de Danon.

SPEAKER_11 14:37

Oh yes!

SPEAKER_08 14:39

From Celtic mythology. Such a cool thing. All right, you guys gotta say it with me.

SPEAKER_03 14:44

Tuatha de Danan. I always I always said it Tuatha de Danan because that's that's where Tolkien inspired his elves from, was the Tuatha de Danan or De Danan.

SPEAKER_08 14:56

Danan. Tuatha de Danan. Cool. All right, Greg, you you gotta say it now.

SPEAKER_04 15:00

Tuatha de Danan.

SPEAKER_08 15:03

What a bunch of copiers just saying it with me. What a trendsetter you are, Jeff. I I mean I I love a lot of the Celtic mythology because of the tie to like fairies and other worlds, just alternate dimensions. Uh, I love doorway, uh, doorways to another world stories, just like Chronicles of Narnia, where you know you just have a character who is happens to pass through a grove of trees in the wrong spot, and they end up in the fairy world and are lost, you know, trying to escape. And it's just this chaotic system, too. The Celts were very tied to nature and believed in there wasn't much order, there was a lot of chaos. Um, and it was kind of finding uh balance through like accessing nature um and kind of utilizing it. So just really fascinating. Uh Dogda was a god of fertility, life, death, magic, and druidity. He had a club that one end could kill you and the other end could resurrect. So quite the weapon. Yeah. Kill and then resurrect and kill again, resurrect, you know.

SPEAKER_03 16:09

Wow. Dang, sounds like he could have some fun with that.

SPEAKER_08 16:14

Yeah, probably did. No, he didn't tell us. They had some wild stories.

SPEAKER_04 16:19

Sweet.

SPEAKER_08 16:20

That's my five.

SPEAKER_04 16:21

Cool. Feel like I'm in school. Falling asleep. No. I will go on. Yeah, I digress. You did your research on this one, Jeff. Good job.

SPEAKER_07 16:34

Thanks.

SPEAKER_04 16:34

Well, well, I'll go.

SPEAKER_01 16:36

Yeah, I was gonna say, I can go, you can go.

SPEAKER_04 16:40

It's fine. Alright. So my number five, I picked Gozer from Ghostbusters. What Gozer?

SPEAKER_03 16:50

Uh oh yeah, I guess he was uh what was he, a Sumerian or a Siri?

SPEAKER_04 16:55

Oh, honorable name. And then I looked at them and they were made up, so I'm like, Oh, I thought they were like based on a series.

SPEAKER_08 17:04

Ghostbusters, they're supposed to be like a Sumerian god of destruction.

SPEAKER_04 17:11

Is it real? Are they real? Are they I guess I mean are they from history? I mean, okay. I haven't done the research for that one because I didn't think about Gozer. All right. So my honorable mention, I'm gonna pick the son of the morning, Lucifer. Lucifer. Just kidding. I don't have any honorable mentions. Oh, I guess I can use my honorable mention is Apollo, just because you know he's the sun god. They named the Apollo missions after him.

SPEAKER_03 17:46

Wait, Apollo was the sun god? I thought Heliod was the uh Helios was the sun god.

SPEAKER_08 17:51

Apollo was Apollo Roman. Um he was the one who ferried the sun across the sky. Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 17:58

Was he the Roman version of Helios?

SPEAKER_10 18:00

Probably.

SPEAKER_03 18:01

Oh, okay. Never mind. I think I think he's Roman. I was like, we're gonna have an awkward time when we get into the book when they talk about Helios.

SPEAKER_00 18:12

Yeah.

SPEAKER_08 18:13

Okay, Helios is the literal Titan personification of the sun who drives Apollo is the god of music prophecy and healing. Healing. But I believe he was supposed to be the farrier of the sun. He had his chariot and basically pulled it across the sky.

SPEAKER_04 18:30

I'll I'll uh I'll sissy redact that or Apollo's just email in mention.

SPEAKER_08 18:39

Anyway, yeah, uh it said he's widely recognized as the sun god, though he's not originally the literal, he's not the literal sun, but sun god in that he controls it, ferries it across the sky. So I think Helios is like it's kind of like how uh Gaia is the earth, um, but like there are gods of the earth. So Helios would probably be more the god who is the sun. Oh, okay, and Paulo. He just controls it across the sky.

SPEAKER_04 19:06

Yeah, okay. All right. Well, my number five is Kronos. Now that I know that we can count titans, Kronos is pretty cool. Jeff, you want to tell us the story again?

SPEAKER_08 19:21

Yeah, gladly.

SPEAKER_09 19:22

No, yeah, go into more detail this time. I don't think you're in the cartoon Hercules.

SPEAKER_08 19:27

Which which of the titans was Kronos? Do did you do does anyone know? Isn't he the lava? Is he the lava or is he the earth one? I figure he's probably one of these.

SPEAKER_13 19:38

Yeah, I think he'd be one of those two.

SPEAKER_04 19:41

Well, the earth one had two heads. So yeah. So even though the two bodies never separating. All right. My number four is Thoth from uh Egyptian myth mythology. Um I don't know much about Thoth. Did you dislike the name? I do like the name. Um but the have you guys heard of Billy Billy Carson, the the forbidden knowledge guy? He just kind of goes off on these uh like these uh stories of the of history and kind of comes to major conclusions. Um super fascinating. Is he like is he from older show or is he a modern like no, he's he's a pretty modern guy. He's got a podcast and stuff, but anyways he talks about Thoth all the time that Thoth is like the he kind of talks about Thoth being. He calls him Thoth.

SPEAKER_08 20:49

I've I think I I yeah, I'm I'm like because I think I've heard Toth, but yeah, Thoth is just another way to say it. But yeah, yeah, I I was like trying to think of who he is. Is he's the one with the the itis? Mm-hmm. Exactly. Yeah. He's like keep going. Yeah.

SPEAKER_12 21:09

Like I said, just I don't know much about him, but Taxi Drive Greg Top Greg's top five.

SPEAKER_04 21:16

Well, I don't have any stories about that. But yeah, all I know about him is what I heard from Billy Carson, and it was pretty cool.

SPEAKER_08 21:27

But anyway, did he talk about the tablets tablet? Yeah, probably. Yeah, basically, God of knowledge of knowledge and um a lot of a lot of myth uh stories evolve around him and Atlantis and basically like him bringing all kinds of bizarre, crazy like knowledge tied to uh alchemy and crazy stuff. There you go. It gets wild. Exactly. Yeah. Another a god that could be alien like, right? Yep, yeah. Exactly.

SPEAKER_04 22:01

My number three is Thor. Very basic. Nice. God of Thunder. You know. Maybe slightly influenced by Marvel, but my number two, definitely influenced by Hercules. I mean, Hades. God of the Dead. How are you doing? God of the Dead. Yep. And then my number one, um, also influenced by the movie Hercules, but also influenced by um Clash of the Titans. Um, and Liam Neeson. Zeus. Release the Kraken. Yeah, probably one of the best um lines ever delivered was by Liam Neeson saying, Release the Kraken.

SPEAKER_08 22:57

That was pretty good. That was better better than mine. Yeah.

SPEAKER_04 23:00

So Zeus or Jupiter. They're pretty much the same. Jupiter. Because I love the planets. Roman names. I was tempted just to pick all the planets as my favorite gods. Jupiter, Saturn, and Hades, Neptune, the forgotten. Mars. But, anyways, that's my top five.

SPEAKER_03 23:25

Awesome. Pretty basic. You didn't want to have Mars be a wolf of Mars. Yeah.

SPEAKER_08 23:30

Mars is bright tonight. I love Mars.

SPEAKER_04 23:38

A couple uh Harry Potter references. Fenrir. Fenrir Greyback.

SPEAKER_08 23:45

Nasty werewolf. So oh yeah.

SPEAKER_03 23:48

Bring it on, Derek. Okay. Hopefully mine is as uh entertaining as your guys's.

SPEAKER_08 23:53

Um see what I can interject on.

SPEAKER_03 23:55

I I had the I had the Duatha Dedanan as an honorable mention because I wasn't sure if they were gods or not.

SPEAKER_08 24:04

But I like it gets messy with a lot of cultures because, like, even the Kachina, they're kind of like spirits, but revered in a way as gods.

SPEAKER_03 24:12

Yeah, I just I like them because they heavily influenced Tolkien with his elves.

SPEAKER_04 24:16

Yeah, but we hear me and Jeff were talking about how like I kind of like more of the demigods, anyways, and wanted to pick more demigods.

SPEAKER_09 24:25

But we weren't allowed Jeff next to that. Yeah. They said, absolutely not.

SPEAKER_08 24:30

Absolutely not. That'll be another time.

SPEAKER_03 24:32

And I also, on my honorable mentions, I had the Leviathan from Hebrew mythology, because I don't think he's a god, but he is the embodiment of chaos that God throws down into the sea, basically, symbolic of order triumphing over chaos.

SPEAKER_07 24:49

Kind of tight and quibbling.

SPEAKER_08 24:51

Kind of, yeah, you know, the great Leviathan sea dragon. Yeah. Mm-hmm.

SPEAKER_03 24:58

And so my number five is so could we pick the Kraken?

SPEAKER_04 25:03

I suppose you could.

SPEAKER_03 25:04

Well, dang.

SPEAKER_04 25:05

Kraken. He's in my top five.

SPEAKER_03 25:09

Is the Kraken the Titan? Because he's in the movie Clash of the Titans. Because if that's so, that's the only Titan that clashed.

SPEAKER_08 25:16

He's at least the child of a god in in some way, I'm sure.

SPEAKER_03 25:19

Okay, because my confusion was with Clash of the Titans was where's the Titans that are clashing? Because I didn't think the Kraken was a Titan, and the gods, it just prefaces how the gods overthrew the Titans. So I was like, where are the Titans that are supposed to be clashing?

SPEAKER_01 25:36

I thought this was middle school. Or I saw it in theaters.

SPEAKER_03 25:40

I was very disappointed. Anyway, number five, it's a tie between the two Babylonian gods, Tiamat, the god of chaos, and Bahamut, the god of order. Mostly because of their influence in dungeons and dragons.

SPEAKER_08 25:54

The dragons.

SPEAKER_03 25:55

Yeah, the two dragon gods in DD, where Tiamat lives on the I think either this first or second layer of the hells of the nine hells, and she is the dragon god of chaos, whereas Bahamut is the platinum dragon of order, and he always has eight, it's either eight or seven gold dragons following him and polymorphed as little gold birds. It's really cool. Oh yeah.

SPEAKER_06 26:23

Oh yeah.

SPEAKER_03 26:24

And number four, because we we love Yu-Gi-Oh! here, I had to have one Egyptian god on the list. Anubis, the god of mummification and the afterlife. But mostly because of his appearance in the TV show Gargoyles, who he is voiced by Tony J, the guy who does Frollo in that show. And he delivers a very few lines because some guy with magic binds him and says, You took my son from me, I want him back. And it's just him saying how, yeah, this is death. That's how it works. He's just being very unarbitrary. My favorite line from it is because the guy says, You took my son from me, it was not fair. And Anubis says, On the contrary, death is the ultimate fairness. Rich and poor, young and old, all are equal in death. You would not like to see the jack-o-god play favorites.

SPEAKER_11 27:19

It was such a it was such a hard line.

SPEAKER_00 27:21

I love that line.

SPEAKER_08 27:22

I will say, Anubis is definitely depicted better in media than he is in mythology, because mythology is not quite as menacing as they make him out to be. Being he's not really the god of death, he's no sirens.

SPEAKER_03 27:34

He's just like and mummification and embalming to death. He just lets them rest.

SPEAKER_08 27:39

Basically, kind of respect for that.

SPEAKER_03 27:41

Yes, I respect him for that. He lets people rest.

SPEAKER_08 27:44

The way they depict him is always so cool and like spooky. So it it's it makes sense that I imagine that still was probably part of his vibes being that he was the jackal, the jackal god.

SPEAKER_03 27:56

And we all know how scary the jackal can be from Pierce Brown. Yeah. Anyway. And number three, I had uh like Ketzakilus, or what was the other name for it? Kuckookan. Which was really fun. Yeah. And number two, I had Odin the All Father.

SPEAKER_08 28:31

Odin so Odin's got a lot of parallels himself.

SPEAKER_03 28:34

Yes, he does, trading his eye for wisdom, and he's one of himself gods of the world tree to save mankind. Yeah. But I believe he dies from Fen Fenrir's jaws in Ragnarok fighting Fenrir. And he's one of the few gods that consults with ravens in order to get knowledge. Has his two ravens, Hugan and Moonin. I love him. And number one, very basic. Thor, Odin's son, protector of mankind. Yeah, he's he's great. He's just got great stories of fighting giants and getting his hammer back. He cross-dressed too, and he made it look cool by almost marrying a giant and then just slaughtering everybody.

SPEAKER_08 29:17

A lot of cross-dressing in mythology.

SPEAKER_03 29:19

Yes, and he just looks so cool in Ragnarok fighting Jormangand, the world's serpent. Oh, so cool. Anyway, yeah, that's my list.

SPEAKER_08 29:31

Can't go wrong with any of those. Very cool.

SPEAKER_04 29:34

Perfect. Okay, let's move on to the hot tape. Okay, I'm gonna try and articulate this. Um I I kind of forgot that I had the hot take, but I had it, I had it planned out. At least read the outline, Greg. Yeah, I got distracted. I was trying to finish our writing challenge. Ah, yes. You know, but I've I've been thinking about this for a while. So just bear with me and try to gather my thoughts as I as I talk about it. Okay, my hot take. I think to preface this, we we've all dabbled in card games, like magic, Yu-Gi-Oh! Pokemon. Um as far as the most toxic, I think Pokemon is by far the most toxic out of all the card games out there. Uh have you played a professional Yu-Gi-Oh! tournament? Okay, let me tell you or in like gameplay. No, in general, okay. Yeah, the company, the product, not necessarily gameplay, but the whole you got the the po or what do you call them? Scalpers. You got the scalpers. My problem with Pokemon, I think my biggest problem is that it is uh targeting kids. As someone that grew up being absolutely like enthralled, yeah, enthralled, excited about Pokemon, trying to collect the cards, and being disappointed every freaking time when I didn't pull a Charizard, and my friend pulled a Charizard, and he didn't even put it in a sleeve, and he just ruined it, and then I would buy more packs and didn't get a Charizard. It definitely that's kind of where it stems from. But I do think targeting kids like that is a very like what's the word? Just very slippery slope.

SPEAKER_03 31:53

It's uh it's a very entry-way. It's not a noble thing.

SPEAKER_04 31:56

Yeah, exactly. You know, it's a it's a very low um means, and I I think it it uh influences kids in a very negative way. So yeah, yeah. The whole premise of gotta catch them all.

SPEAKER_03 32:14

So then I guess your statement is out of all the trading card games out there for kids, Pokemon is the worst for kids' mental health.

SPEAKER_04 32:22

There's a more toxic nature around it in general, not just toxic for kids, but for adults too.

SPEAKER_03 32:28

Well, yeah, the scalpers coming in during COVID times, during 2020. Yeah, that I I hated that because I was collecting Pokemon cards at the time and I was getting so PO'd.

SPEAKER_08 32:40

Oh man. Yeah. You just know them when you see them too.

SPEAKER_00 32:44

Well, and I was donating plasma at the time too, so I had the money for Pokemon cards. I was so excited. I recalled the cruise set came out, I was looking at all the teasers.

SPEAKER_03 32:55

Um yeah, but yeah, let's hear it.

SPEAKER_04 32:58

I want to make an argument against your case because I figured I am somewhat targeting you, Derek, because I know you were definitely more into Pokemon.

SPEAKER_03 33:07

It's hard to say. Yeah, I kind of stopped collecting Pokemon after I got my my shiny Charizard V Max pull. I was like, this is the best pull of my life. I I'm gonna quit while I'm ahead, you know, because I just got tired of trying to collect every Charizard out there. And I had I still have so many, you know, they're hopefully appreciating and valuing.

SPEAKER_04 33:24

This is the part of it of being toxic, it never ends. They're gonna come out with a better Charizard. They always come out with more Charizards.

SPEAKER_03 33:32

They always come out with better Dragonites and Lugia.

SPEAKER_04 33:35

They're gonna make it harder and harder to pull, more and more expensive. It's just money grab, it's targeting kids, and that is just so like unethical.

SPEAKER_08 33:44

And the kids that should enjoy it aren't able to because of the adults that are basically coming in really.

SPEAKER_03 33:50

So I guess more of your hot take is just adults should stay out of Pokemon or at least limit themselves. If you're playing with your kids, because I got three starter decks that I hope to play with my son these one of these days, because they came in like a board game fashion that they were selling in all the targets and Walmarts out there as a kind of a family introductory set. Oh, yeah, uh, where you get three decks of Pikachu, Charizard, and Mewtwo. Um, so I definitely want to be a part of my son's life if he does get into Pokemon, but I do get it. The scalpers just need to get out there. Like, I I stopped collecting Pokemon cards because I just saw how exhausting it was and it just never ever ended. So I I want to make an argument against you, but you you you got some good points here.

SPEAKER_08 34:37

I will I I'll make somewhat of a counter argument. Yeah, let's hear it. Um I really think it's mostly Wizards because Wizards owns both Pokemon and Wizards. Yeah, Wizards.

SPEAKER_03 34:47

Um, I think Wizards of the Coast doesn't own Pokemon anymore. I think Pokemon became its own. And yeah, this was like way back in the early 2000s. Dang. I thought they were still managing it, but no, like in the beginning they were managing it, but like Pokemon got so big they just became independent.

SPEAKER_08 35:00

Well, there we go.

SPEAKER_03 35:01

It's good for Pokemon, but yeah, really good for Pokemon. Oh yeah, I think they're one of the biggest like net worth companies. I think they're in the top five. Like, I think they're more valuable than Disney.

SPEAKER_08 35:14

It it is it Pokemon is massive, and I I think they definitely have the uh the great thing about it is there are other avenues. You have games, you have the show.

SPEAKER_03 35:25

Um in regards for it for kids. I do see it as you know, if the kids are playing, you know, the physical card game, it it taught me math skills when I was playing it, you know, it taught me how to do meant quick mental math pretty easy at the beginning. It it kept me away from a screen, but at the same time, screens weren't as prevalent when we were kids. Um so I don't know, and now there's Pokemon Pocket, it's all on online, you know, that they got apps for it now. You could argue that it didn't keep you from screens because of the games. I never had the Game Boy games until I was 16.

SPEAKER_04 36:00

Oh, okay.

SPEAKER_03 36:00

Yeah, then yeah, I guess I I had parents who just didn't like video games, and it wasn't until my friend from high school she gave me her Game Boy and I was like, here's Pokemon Emerald. I think you'll really enjoy it. And I just ate that up. And so she's like, Oh, here's Fire Red.

SPEAKER_00 36:14

I'm like, sweet, I can finally have Charizard. Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 36:17

So you come from a similar background. I I still play that from time to time. I have my Game Boy SP because I got one on my own, and I still play it from time to time. When I'm on a road trip, I do that instead of just selling.

SPEAKER_08 36:30

The world of Pokemon ROM hacks is just incredible. Oh yeah. I I think the big problem with Pokemon is they don't know when to quit. And part that's part of the toxicity is they just keep pumping out, and and they've gotten so lazy with their Pokemon now. It they're rehashing a lot of just like every new generation has basically a copy and paste Pikachu, and oh yeah, Pikachu clone, but it's not even everyone still would rather just have Pikachu. And I I think they have there are some good good things from it, but um I will say um it's just it is so hard to debate it because the scalpers do play such a big role in making it toxic, and yeah, they do with the collectibility of everything, but um in general, magic is I think just as if not equally toxic, because you do still have plenty of scalpers um with magic, and I think beyond uh and magic is with their universes beyond sets, they're just it's it feels so phony now.

SPEAKER_03 37:35

Yeah, they're reaching out to so you're not a fan of the universe's beyond sets.

SPEAKER_08 37:39

Well, in i i it's cool having Spider-Man to play with, but I s it it doesn't feel like magic anymore.

SPEAKER_03 37:46

Oh, I I would agree, like you know, you're because the premise of magic is you are the wizard, you're conjuring these things, and they'll be like, I I could conjure Spider-Man.

unknown 37:55

What?

SPEAKER_03 37:56

So I do admit it does take away from the immersiveness, you know, because they have the planes and you're you're just a planeswalker just pulling things out from other planes as you're spending the mana. Yeah, but if you don't think about that too hard, you I I can still enjoy the universe is beyond like I'm still a fan that I got Wolverine in a deck. I'm still a fan that's a good one. It's still cool to have spider and sand in a deck, you know?

SPEAKER_08 38:21

Yeah. But it is hard to disagree. Pokemon is pretty up there.

SPEAKER_04 38:26

I do think magic is very toxic, but I do think it's very different because you're not you're not seeing people really grading.

SPEAKER_07 38:33

It doesn't have such a wide group, as much of a collectors.

SPEAKER_03 38:38

Yeah, there's more serious collectors in the Pokemon community because with the cards that I've sold compared to the magic cards I've sold, they are nitpicked ten times more than my magic cards. Like something that looks like would probably go for a like lightly played as a magic card. They'll look at the same kind of diff like defections on a Pokemon card and be like, oh man, this is heavily damaged. We're not buying this. Like, you gotta be kidding me, dude. Really? Because I I probably did that just by either pulling it out of the sleeve or putting it in the sleeve, because that's what I did the whole time. Like, you gotta be kidding me. And don't even get me started on when the company doesn't have it centered, and that makes your grading even less. It's like, it's not my fault, man. It's not my fault. It's not my fault, yeah.

SPEAKER_04 39:27

Oh, yeah. No, I and you might you could tell me if I'm wrong about this point, Derek, but I feel like the gameplay of Pokemon is just not really appealing as as much as collecting for the card game or for the yeah, for the card game. Collecting appeals versus like the typical the magic, the general population. Magic is really for the gameplay.

SPEAKER_03 39:50

I would say so, because there's so many things you can do in magic. Our brother Daniel even collects.

SPEAKER_08 39:55

He doesn't play, but he collects them.

SPEAKER_07 39:57

He collects Pokemon cards. Yeah, really? Yeah, he's been the most unerdy person that we know.

SPEAKER_08 40:06

He's the most closeted nurse. Yeah. Every time I've met him, I'm like, this guy's not a there's no way he's related to Jeff A Greg.

SPEAKER_04 40:14

Him and Doug, I'm like, there's a collecting uh I mean, this is kind of to my point. He started collecting you know sports cards and buying and selling, and he's making money from it. And then he's like, I tried Pokemon and I'm way made way more buying and selling Pokemon cards, and it's just like okay, well, then Pokemon maybe like go down that route solely. I hate how they just push it for gameplay. Yeah, you know, the they they're trying to do too much and it's become just so toxic, in my opinion. That I don't know.

SPEAKER_08 40:55

It it I mean, Magic kind of did that where it had a pack for collectors and a pack for players where the collector boosters, right? Oh yeah, but they got reamed for like problems, and then they jack up prices, and then the collectors still go with the play packs.

SPEAKER_04 41:11

Yeah, but wasn't there they came out with like their anniversary version or something like that where they weren't even you weren't even allowed to play with them.

SPEAKER_08 41:21

Oh yeah, there are some of those.

SPEAKER_04 41:22

They got reamed for that.

SPEAKER_08 41:24

Yeah, then they spend all the money and the collectors are like, I still want to play.

SPEAKER_04 41:28

Yeah, like nobody, nobody bought it, but I feel like something like that needs to happen with Pokemon, just kind of put them in their place.

SPEAKER_03 41:36

Well, yeah, the customers definitely need to, you know, actually vote with their wallets more because I feel like magic players, especially right now, we're with all the universe beyond, we're being like, you know what, we're kind of getting we're getting screwed in a lot of stuff. Like Commander Dex used to have like the cool cardboard cut out of there, Commander with the life counter and everything. Now they got rid of those one by one.

SPEAKER_08 41:56

That can be a whole nother hot take.

SPEAKER_03 41:57

Yeah, never mind. Yeah, we could yeah, yeah, that's true. That could be a whole nother hot take.

SPEAKER_08 42:04

I'll digress there. There's a lot of lot that can be discussed in in card games in general because it has gotten so toxic, and that's why it is so easy to compare them to each other. I mean, Yu-Gi-Oh really is probably the least toxic, minus the gameplay.

SPEAKER_03 42:22

Gameplay is the worst, but you know, as far as collecting them, yeah, they're like immune to scalpers.

SPEAKER_08 42:28

Yeah, they reprint crazy amounts, so it's like, yeah.

SPEAKER_04 42:32

Yeah, I feel like Dungeons and Dragons is probably the most ethical way to kind of experience, you know, game gaming. Yeah, it is it's as far as like the fantasy realm that I think and you can do sci-fi with that too, because you can just make your own campaign.

SPEAKER_03 42:51

Like it encourages you to make up your own stuff. You know, the the owner's manual or the the player's guide, they're usually there for they're very hard suggestions to help you have a better immersive experience, but it doesn't criticize you for going off the beaten path. And you can break the rules, and breaking the rules and making up your own stuff, yeah.

SPEAKER_04 43:12

And I think part of what I just fell in love with magic was the whole it felt I haven't experienced Dungeons and Dragons, but um, I felt like I was it's in the works, yeah. When are you gonna get that campaign ready? I felt like I was actually experiencing you know fantasy, that kind of role play, but more structured and like you know, like the whole building the deck was the funnest part.

SPEAKER_08 43:42

Not even playing again. There can be a whole nother I I have I you're going through like my list of hot takes right now. Yeah, what one of my hot takes I had ready was to be like these are the best two color pairings, fight me.

SPEAKER_03 43:56

I was gonna be like red, green, or red, blue is the best color pairing, fight me.

SPEAKER_04 44:00

me there used to be a simplicity for sure yeah yeah and so I don't know I just I kind of want I want to experience Dungeons and Dragons more and I kind of want that to be more popularized which I I feel like it slightly has been it's pretty popular man you try playing Baldur's Gate 3 or there's the new uh AI assistant that helps you play dungeons and dragons by yourself pretty much the sheer amount of breakoffs and and yeah alternatives there is all there's a bunch of alternatives like yeah you could create creativity you have with it yeah but you want to know the least toxic after dungeons and dragons is Warhammer 40k guys they're just happy that you're listening to them they're happy you spent the money with them yes yes and in their defense it's really cool yeah it is just so fun to shout for the um it is it's really fun so absurdly expensive but so cool and there's a lot of cool fan made animations of it you and me went to a a free pickup of one of the the minis remember yeah yeah just how nice they were I still feel like if you're having to spend an arm in a leg to play a game to have a hobby you know to have a hobby then it it's somewhat toxic for sure yeah so it there it helps the more accessible the better for sure yeah that's why I think I mean can I can be a whole nother hot take but proxies do proxies anyways um I know I'm gonna be torched uh I know there's a there's a big community of Pokemon avid Pokemon uh what do you call them fans followers let us know what what is your take on this so we can come like scalpy yeah yeah there's really no there's no excuse for that yeah collie so but anyway don't touch grass man um yeah let me know what you think I I think you caught me at the wrong season in my life to get defensive about that hot take because ever since I got that big pull I'm like okay I'm done because I was exhausted of chasing the next card. I can't I I had a feeling that you weren't going to be too against my hot tag.

SPEAKER_03 46:23

I thought you were going to say that diehard wasn't a Christmas movie or something. I thought that's what your hot tag was going to be I was getting ready to fight that. That's for another I I would say probably the the closest to toxicity would be mobile gaming but yeah the biggest thing about mobile gaming is they pick the worst voice actors for all their ads. Like it's that's like on purpose. They just have the worst voice actors they take some guy off the street it just drives me nuts. I thought you had to get a degree for advertising but I guess not just make up like whatever you want man I hate it okay I'm getting mad we gotta stop talking about bring back games where it's not paid to be better just make hobby affordable again yeah exactly all right let's get into our non-spoiler section of the Odyssey what we're here for yes sorry about that we uh we definitely took some time with that so well are we jerk is Derek gonna do summary I shall okay so the Odyssey is yeah the Odyssey is a sequel I found out before I'm a sequel to the Iliad which takes place during the Trojan Wars and the Odyssey ever seen the movie Troy? That's the Iliad. Pretty much so I guess you could say this is Troy Story 2. It took me a minute Troy Story 2 if you want to call that and I found out it's it was actually a poem originally it was 12000 lines. It was a 12,000 line poem sequel to the Iliad and the story is following Odysseus he is the man who came up with the idea of the Trojan horse and went inside the Trojan horse and helped take that never Odysseus the wisest of all the wisest of all Greeks and the most cunning man. It's about him and his voyage to return back home. But because he pretty much ticked off the god Poseidon instead of taking you know what Google Maps says it would take him two weeks took about 10 years. Like how he's the last to leave everyone else makes at home and he's going through he's just messing with gods and monsters and meanwhile back home his wife Penelope and his son Telemachus have to deal with many rude suitors who are just really making themselves at home. Yeah overstaying the welcome and overstaying the welcome and even plotting to kill Telemachus as well in the process. So you have to deal with that and with the reunion and just with all the troubles that Odysseus faces it is pretty much one of the stories that has become the foundation for Western storytelling and basically any kind of fiction in fact the uh Joseph Campbell hero's journey pretty much was created from the Iliad and the Odyssey so and this is a piece of work that has lasted for thousands of years so and the fact that it's still read and studied and applied in pop culture today it must be pretty good right I think we'll explore that.

SPEAKER_04 49:51

Yeah about the author too Homer it's very fascinating that there's just so little known about him you know there's a lot of people that claim that he's blind or he was blind but you know there's a lot of evidence showing that probably he wasn't blind but how do you write it down yeah it's very very fascinating you know it's also really debated on the order of which lines of the poem go where and there's been multiple translations.

SPEAKER_03 50:20

We went with Robert Fagel's right that's the name Robert Fagel's translation mostly because uh Sir Ian McKellen was reading it. Yes to have Gandalf read it to you was was pretty nice. I know that Christopher Nolan's film is off of what is it Emily Wilson? Is that her name? Not sure Emily Wilson's translation which I think people make a big deal of it because she's the very first woman to uh translate the Odyssey from Greek into English. Bravo for her. Mm-hmm yeah um but yeah Homer's existence is debated on if he actually existed or not or if he was just a character in the whole thing and if this was all uh taken down orally or if it was written down at first. And it does make me wonder what kind of other works did we lose in the library of Alexander?

SPEAKER_08 51:16

Oh yeah if there was stuff like sorry Alexandria sorry sorry Alexandria yeah there's even Alexandria you can you can uh Alexander the Great Alexandria Derek you can uh excuse me elaborate on this Jeff probably but I think there's a lot of um archaeologists that think that the city of Troy was actually a real city oh yeah right yeah there's definitely evidence out there that there was a city in similar geographic region similar kind of fate and you know trashed city so pretty pretty amazing history there and no doubt there's connections because that that's what a lot of mythology is it is a an absorption of observation of the real world observation new words observations of the real world but yeah it and and the fast and part of the fascinating thing along with what Derek was saying is just yeah how much how much of the Odyssey is lost lost literature where you know we are only getting whatever step in it you know it somebody wrote it down at some point whether it was Homer or somebody else and then from there it was passed along and just how often was it changed and what was the original so no doubt I mean I I'm sure there have been like the Dead Sea Scrolls just different varieties found and maybe in the future there could be more we could have a new version of the Odyssey.

SPEAKER_04 52:51

It definitely reminds me of you know the Bible in a lot of ways you know just with the history oh yeah yeah very similar translations and different versions you know there are a lot of um what's the I I used the word earlier but now I can't remember similarities and like crossover between them where you could make comparisons and be like this is pretty much the same story in some places. Yeah which that kind of leads us into the next subject who is this book for I talked I mentioned the Bible um because the language in this is you know poetic yeah it's poetic poetic old style difficult dare I say for modern readers at least for me it was I don't know about you guys um it's breathy it it was difficult for me but at the same time and have either of you guys read the Silmarillion?

SPEAKER_03 53:52

No no oh it's it's written very similar to this yeah and so I was I was kind of able to grasp on it but seeing as how I've read the Silmarillion two times and I still walk out confused just thinking what the heck did I just read Tolkien had some fun with that oh he he had a lot of fun and his son Christopher had a lot of fun just finishing it for him but I get something out of every time I read it so it's definitely a piece of work that you kind of have to like train yourself to understand and to read and to know oh yeah this is kind of just how mythology was written or a story was written at the time and so like if you go back to it with the intent on being better on understanding it works but not very many people read because they want to make it because it's that difficult. They just want to read a good story. So as for who this is for it's definitely for people who are scholarly who are willing to find and see what all the other scholars are saying that this is the foundation of Western literature or how it has taught us what the hero's journey is or one fun practice is to see how it's popped up in pop culture altogether you know it there's references to it everywhere.

SPEAKER_08 55:16

I want to say that I think this version especially being it it seems like a more literal translation but the story of the Odyssey is for everyone. I think it is a fantastic story that can really be adapted to be told to any age and that's kind of the wonderful thing about mythology is you can not alter the story but adapt it to different audiences and mythology really anciently it was meant to be told in to an audience where you'd have people coming in and out of the story. So you really could jump in at any point of the Odyssey and maybe you you don't know what Odysseus was doing before but you were you're in that part of the story and you're you're and it's kind of like watching a a sh a soap opera or show where you know you come in and you're like you're seeing some drama and oh no Odysseus kissed uh uh Circe oh drama you know it's like it's exactly how it feels so that's exactly what the the type of story was you I mean you probably had people coming in as Homer is you know uh giving this big dialogue and telling the story and and you know then their wife is like come on we need to get home you you still need to clean the the pantheon um Parthenon Parthenon yeah he's gotta clean the whole pantheon of gods you just gotta clean them all it's your turn exactly it's your turn get under the armpits all right yeah so it it kind of makes sense for how it is written or how it is translated in it in the way it is where you have these stories just kind of randomly popping in with the gods where it literally it's like going on and on and then suddenly it's back to Odysseus doing something. So I I can see why it is but mature audience for this version especially and somebody who is is looking to delve more into and I would say this is definitely beginner for sure it's a great place to start if you're wanting to get into this kind of mythology because it it is such a well-known story.

SPEAKER_04 57:18

Yeah yes which I was actually I was gonna say that Jeff uh the more and more I think about this and reminisce and and look up videos of smarter people dissecting the story I love I'm starting to love the story more and more um initially reading through it because it was somewhat difficult and a bit of a slog um it was hard for me to get into it my mind would wander but like I generally knew the story um but it you know like I said the more I think about it the more I'm like oh man this is a great story it really is so good.

SPEAKER_08 58:00

Oh yeah and and it it is that structure because it has like Derek was saying the kind of the hero story structure I think that is makes it so valuable.

SPEAKER_03 58:08

And it does make just the heroes seem larger than life in a way as you know as the Greek stories usually did Achilles and Ajax and Odysseus is like the wisest and most cunning and it's just so entertaining to see him get through trial after trial because through his voyage he pretty much goes from island to island. It's kind of like a video game you know it's like here's this level and then there's this level and you know it's testing different skills. Like um see this is where my problem like my mind wandered so I can't remember all the order of the island it's and it doesn't start in a linear fashion it starts with Penelope and Telemachus and Telemachus searching for clues of his father's whereabouts and then it gets to Odysseus getting off of Calypso's island and then going to the retelling retelling his story.

SPEAKER_08 58:57

So it's like oh okay so you kind of have to piece together oh okay when it's it it reminded me almost of uh Project Hell Mary in a similar fashion where yeah it's you he's jumping back and forth between them to kind of as the story progresses to kind of emphasize certain story moments.

SPEAKER_03 59:15

But yeah I was not expecting that kind of complex narrative structure from a text so old I was like oh this is probably just gonna be you know very linear poem yes you know which goes to show that humankind has just been you know cultivating creativity for thousands of years it's it's in us it's in our human spirit to want to create and just express ourselves through story.

SPEAKER_04 59:42

Yeah I would suggest you know for those that maybe a little more dim like myself to watch a video kind of that gives you a summary of the story. Oh yes that way you get some great ones understand the timeline of the whole book and then it'll make so much more sense.

SPEAKER_03 1:00:00

Yeah that that give yourself a foundation yeah yeah there's plenty on YouTube I actually watched a few after I listened to it the first time because yeah my mind wanders so much I was like what did I just listen to? Oh no and so I just needed the recap like in my in my search history it's just like understanding the Odyssey right there. And then you know I listened to it again and then I listened to that abridged version that's like only four hours long that you said I was like oh my gosh this is this is so nice. Fantastic that would be a great place to start too but yeah the YouTube channel Crash Course that's a pretty good one. Yeah. Uh overly sarcastic productions classic summarized they did a pretty good job as well. Yeah. Yeah and they're like all like 12 minutes or 13 minutes.

SPEAKER_08 1:00:55

So yeah it's definitely not it's such a well established story so well researched I mean when it comes to translations it's kind of semantics you know just whatever the translator preferred to emphasize more but and how they wanted to order that's a nitty gritty debate that I I don't know if we're skilled enough to go into because it's it's like the Bible the Bible's been translated by so many people so there's so many different interpretations.

SPEAKER_03 1:01:20

You can debate and look how we're all debating the interpretations of Bible verses today. Yeah yeah oh yeah but let me ask you this guys uh since it's such a pop culture phenomenon you know it just appears all the time do you guys know what your first I guess dose of the Odyssey or exposure to the Odyssey was yes oh yeah what is it Jeff very early in my childhood do you guys recall Wishbone?

SPEAKER_08 1:01:47

Yeah Wishbone oh yeah what was he uh Jack Russell Terrier? Uh-huh yeah oh fantastic sarcastic little underrated obsessed with snacks yeah when uh when did the Simpsons do the Odyssey season seven no eleven I I looked it up because I watched I watched their take on it and uh um it's a very very simplified version of it that is probably one of the early I think that might be but I do remember Wishbone now that you you mention it. My first exposure was an episode of Arthur where a DW tells the Odyssey she's the main character she's ODW and like it had it pretty much had all the simple stuff you know it had the white lotus eaters it had cyclops it had the sirens and I think that was it yeah it was very bare bones you can only do so much when it comes to kids but yeah that uh do you guys ever play the wishbone odysse game what no that oh my gosh I that game pops into my mind every so often you an obscure game it was a point and click it was wishbone in in the place of Odysseus he got somehow trapped in this virtual world of the Odyssey and let me tell you difficult game for a kid I could not get past the Cyclops level and just the beginning yeah he kept eating my the guys come to learn he had to click on like a random batch of straw it's so funny and it's so funny too because there's a statue of Athena that like gives you hints and literally clicking on it enough gives you like what you do. So it's like I must have just been an idiot as a kid like trying to figure it out myself and constantly like losing the game but I was just fascinated by it because it was like this I mean you just it was wishbone you control wishbone in the seeing how you struggled with a game like that I can see why you love Dark Souls so much.

SPEAKER_03 1:04:01

You enjoy getting beat up on by game but I I'm actually playing through it now so I got past the Cyclops yeah help me remember the order of the islands he visits it's first the white lotus eaters right where he first encounters you know you eat the lotus you forget stuff like very simple you know fantasy stuff. But hold on do we want to move on to the would this would this go into spoiler section or is this just hitting the the plot points? Probably would because of uh I mean it the story itself is so well known it's hard to say spoiled but yeah it that is probably yeah and I'm sure people watching this want to know the story because Christopher Nolan's film is coming out so they feel more prepared of what to expect.

SPEAKER_04 1:04:46

You bet. Yeah and so I think it might just be a good time to take a break anyways so let's do that let's take a break cool yep we'll be back cool cool cool okay unpaused welcome back that was a good little break felt good to pee yeah release our bowels so bowels we're gonna get into the spoiler section of the Odyssey which you know it's a very popular story I'm sure you've heard it but especially with Christopher Nolan's film of another yeah this is just your warning if you don't want spoilers then come back after you've read the book or seen the movie or watch the wishbone episode okay Derek do you want to lead us into our next d discussion yes as mentioned earlier it starts with Penelope and Telemachus on in at home in Ithaca and Penelope is just doing whatever she can to keep all these suitors from

SPEAKER_03 1:06:00

Pretty much forcing themselves to be married to her. And Telemachus goes to the shore every day and hopes that his dad will come back for pretty much 20 years.

SPEAKER_08 1:06:08

Talk about MVP Penelope. Right.

SPEAKER_03 1:06:12

So loyal. Very loyal. In fact, I'll we'll touch on that near the end that I think she is not appreciated for. But we'll touch on that when we get to the end. Because she is doing all she can to basically make excuses to not progress any of this. So yeah, for 20 years, she is just being a great wife.

SPEAKER_04 1:06:33

Yep. Do you either of you know the history of like why? Like it almost seemed like they had no control over the suitors being there.

SPEAKER_08 1:06:43

So wait, in Greek mythology, did you want to say that? No, you go for it. I think you'll explain a lot better. We'll see. We'll see. Um so in Greek mythology, guests were highly revered and regarded uh because Zeus himself would appear as a beggar. So basically, this is why Odysseus, anywhere he goes, everyone is always like, Yeah, come in and you know, get some food and enjoy yourself. Stay a while, and use a bunch of gold. There's a law of hospitality. Stay a while and flushing.

SPEAKER_03 1:07:14

Yeah. Yep. Yeah, there's like a law of hospitality that the gods have sanctioned themselves and they expect to be followed.

SPEAKER_10 1:07:20

Since goose or since goose topics. Since Zeus would always appear as a beggar.

SPEAKER_08 1:07:37

Since he would always appear as a beggar, it was always like a uh risk if you didn't it if you didn't care for the beggar that it would turn out to be Zeus and he would basically wipe you off the planet. Smitten. Smitten. You'd be smited by his lightning bolt.

SPEAKER_09 1:07:59

I think what makes it so funny is just how the goose just popped out.

SPEAKER_04 1:08:06

Well, anyway, goose. It's too late to hit me with that, Jeff. My mind is just reeling about Zeus the Goose.

SPEAKER_05 1:08:26

Zeus the Goose.

SPEAKER_08 1:08:30

Oh gosh. I I think but summarized, I think that played a role in uh why the suitors were hanging around so much, but on top of that, they it was like she had to pick a husband, basically, kind of thing.

SPEAKER_03 1:08:43

Yeah, they're pretty much saying, dude, Odysseus is dead, he's been gone so long. You gotta pick a guy to the war's ended, other people are back.

SPEAKER_04 1:08:53

They probably noticed, yeah, all these other people are back.

SPEAKER_03 1:08:56

So yep. In fact, Telemachus, he actually sails to uh it's not Sparta, it's on his way to Sparta. The names of places I kind of forgot.

SPEAKER_08 1:09:06

Yeah, I'm here. Um he begins his journey and oh heavens Betsy. Um see I Melanaeus and Melinaus. Yeah, but there was it was Nestor before that who was uh okay Yeah, wasn't that Sparta? Yeah, I think Nestor was in Sparta.

SPEAKER_03 1:09:30

But isn't it Melanaeus who gives him the answer of his dad's whereabouts? Yes, which he goes on kind of a tangent about. He's like, yes, I was on this island and I had to grab Proteus and he turned it all this crazy strike. Never let go.

SPEAKER_08 1:09:46

I just love yeah, he basically captures a god by tricking him and then proceeds the god proceeds to just dump like lore on it.

SPEAKER_11 1:09:57

No, he like freaking spams all his special moves, hoping that he let go, just like I'm a giant snake, I'm fire, I'm a whirlwind, just let go of me, man.

SPEAKER_08 1:10:08

Gotta love Greek mythology where these gods kind of have no idea what's going on until somebody's like, and then all of a sudden they're like, Oh, no, we know the future.

SPEAKER_09 1:10:20

And we know the where we know like on everything you want to know. Where's Odysseus? Oh, yeah, he's over here. He's on Calypso's Island.

SPEAKER_11 1:10:30

Oh, yeah.

SPEAKER_03 1:10:31

Yeah, and so Telemachus gets that information, and um, that's when we kind of shift to Odysseus on Calypso's Island. Oh, yes. The goose trying not to you just keep chuckling about that. Okay, then we get to Odysseus on Calypso's Island, which he's been kind of a prisoner. I put in quotes, because it's he's living a good life. Uh he's a prisoner for seven years because the nymph Calypso wants him as a husband.

SPEAKER_08 1:11:06

Offering him immortality.

SPEAKER_03 1:11:08

Yes, immortality and a happy life on our island. And he just wants to go home.

SPEAKER_08 1:11:13

I mean, what do you guys think? You're you're Odysseus. You've been there how seven years?

SPEAKER_03 1:11:19

Seven years.

SPEAKER_08 1:11:20

Do you think you're resisting that whole seven?

SPEAKER_03 1:11:23

The head is strong and the flesh is weak. The flesh is weak. Another Warhammer reference.

SPEAKER_08 1:11:31

I will say, he doesn't have it so he doesn't have the resistance so bad because I mean he's pretty much doing it the whole time he's that. Right. Uh so reluctantly, but so which I which I kind of that's my beef with Odysseus is yeah, I was gonna I was gonna get to that once we got to the end, because yeah, Odysseus, he uh he's definitely having his needs met.

SPEAKER_04 1:11:57

Yeah, what one interesting thing I heard um probably from a scholar reluctantly, but talks talks about a lot of these Greek heroes. A lot of them aren't like the they're a lot of them aren't very good. You know, a lot of them are pretty big major flaw. Yeah, pretty big flaws. I think that's pretty common in Greek mythology.

SPEAKER_03 1:12:23

Yeah, I think I heard another scholar say that when the Romans took over, they kind of didn't like that. They didn't like their heroes having uh those flaws because Odysseus, his biggest strength is his cunning, his his smarts, his uh charisma.

SPEAKER_04 1:12:40

He's known as the most cunning man. Yeah, it's almost to the point where he's kind of like too shifty, you know.

SPEAKER_08 1:12:47

He's too uh everyone else around him doesn't fit that. So I mean, hence why he lost pretty much he lost his entire crew because they were they could not meet that same kind of cleverness, I guess. Right.

SPEAKER_03 1:13:00

Yeah, but he he ends up getting well, he doesn't get the the gods command Calypso to let Odysseus free. And she makes a raft, and she she whines about it. She's like, What the heck? You guys have kids with mortals all the time. And so she makes him a raft, and he ends up getting to the shores, I think it's in ten days, to the shores of the Phoenicians? Phaeacians?

SPEAKER_08 1:13:26

Phaeacians. Phaeacia, something like that. It's it's pretty much like a a one-to-one of the Phoenicians, but Phaeacians. Phaeacians. Yeah, because they were the seafaring people.

SPEAKER_03 1:13:36

Oh, yeah, that's right. They were said to be descended by uh Poseidon himself. They were great seafarers. Yeah, and they they welcome him in because you know the hospitality rules that you talked about, and you know, they ask him, What have you been doing?

SPEAKER_08 1:13:52

Well, I I I just love the he washes up on the beach butt naked. And then the daughter is like, All right, we we can't just have you walking into the city with me naked. So we're gonna make this elaborate plan to get you into my father's palace. And then it's just like he shows up and he's like, I'm here. And they're like, ah, welcome.

SPEAKER_03 1:14:16

Yeah, our daughter brushed in. Yep. And it's at this point that the story that this is where I expected the story to start when I first picked this up. Right. I was like, okay, we're gonna just follow Odysseus leaving from the wars, and yeah, so he gets to the first island is the first island they that him and his crew stop at. I believe it's 12 ships they are at the first. They land on the island of the lotus eaters. Correct me if I'm wrong on the order. Lotus eaters. Yep. And this is, and as Jeff mentioned in the non-spirer view, there was lots of sections of this story where you could just jump in and you could follow along just enough. Like the chapters or sections in Robert Fagel's version, they're all labeled as a book, you know, because each one is kind of its own self-contained story in a huge grand story. And so with the island of the lotus eaters, it's it's a nice simple quest of oh, we came to this island, there's something fishy going on here. People are just forgetting things, people just don't want to do anything. No one wants to go home. Why is this? It's because the lotus they're eating makes them forget that home exists, and so puts them in a lulled, almost sleep-like state. Yeah, so this is like the first test for Odysseus to get his men out of there before too many of them forget everything.

SPEAKER_08 1:15:43

Convenient Odysseus didn't just straight up start eating. I mean, convenient for Odysseus, he never just straight up started eating most of the bad food. But most of the bad food. But he had his sailors to be the clever, so yeah.

SPEAKER_03 1:15:59

But after so that that little, I guess, ordeal is pretty easily conquered, and you don't dwell a lot of time there. Yeah, that's when we get to the island of the Cyclumps, which was one of my favorite islands or little adventures parts of this story.

SPEAKER_08 1:16:17

Oh yeah, replicated in almost anything that tries to reference the Odyssey is going to reference this part of the story.

SPEAKER_03 1:16:26

And yeah, because this is kind of the reason why his journey takes so long, because what he does to Cyclops, because who knew that the one-eyed giants are the son of the god of the sea? Makes sense, right?

SPEAKER_08 1:16:36

Son of the god of the earthquake, which kind of makes more sense for the cyclops as being big giant creatures.

SPEAKER_03 1:16:42

So oh yeah, that's fair.

SPEAKER_08 1:16:44

Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 1:16:46

But Poseidon and his men, they go into Cyclops' cave seeing all the food that he's got. The cheese. Yeah, cheese wheels as big as their shields. Yep. And they get excited, but then Cyclops comes back, traps him in the cave, and you know, he just decides to pop his men like tic-tacks.

SPEAKER_04 1:17:03

Oh, I that was one thing I loved about the description in this story where you know Cyclops closes them in, and then he grabs two of them and bashes their brains out all over the key floor, and then he prepares his meal.

SPEAKER_07 1:17:23

The way that he's the way it was so savage, and yet so civilized.

SPEAKER_04 1:17:28

And then, like, and then the Cyclops prepared his meal, which aka he bit their heads off.

SPEAKER_03 1:17:35

And it also talks about how gently he's able to milk his goats and take care of his sheep, just so gently. That's what I'm wondering too. How big are these goats and sheep because they were able to escape by that's by basically clinging to them. Yeah, yeah, they must have been pretty big.

SPEAKER_04 1:17:53

Strapping themselves to the sheep. So they have to have been bigger sheep, right? I would say so.

SPEAKER_08 1:17:58

In in the wishbone game, you you go in the cave and you just have these like generic copy-paste soldiers with you. And when you fail one of like the things in the cave, like one of the if you fail something, the cyclops just goes and so you basically have like a limited amount of tries per soldier because he's gonna eat Odysseus last.

SPEAKER_10 1:18:26

So how many times I've gone and the cyclops just and I click on the wrong thing again.

SPEAKER_08 1:18:34

Wow, that's and the cyclops in this game talks almost like like a bad stereotype of a black guy.

SPEAKER_01 1:18:43

Oh no. Oh, Odysseus! Oh no, hey, what are you doing in my cake?

SPEAKER_03 1:18:49

Oh no, oh no, so bad. But I think this is also one of the better trials because this is like one of the first big trials that Odysseus faces, because they they pretty much paint the picture pretty well. You have this big obviously they're physically outmatched. Yeah, they have their weapons, they do have their weapons, and they can't kill it because he's the only one able to move the boulder to get them out. So even if they were able to kill the cyclops, they would be stuck, they would be stuck and starved, regardless of how much cheese was in there. They'd live there a long time with all that cheese, but they would end up starving. Cheese and goatsman. So this is where this is where Odysseus really puts his cunning on center stage. They have wine with them, he gives the wine to Cyclops, and Cyclops, he's he's a I guess you could say he's a wine bibber. He loves it. Yeah, well, he's really strong wine, too.

SPEAKER_04 1:19:45

Yeah, Cyclops' magic god wine. He's always been portrayed as like unsophisticated, just a monster, but he's pretty sophisticated in the story. He prepares his meal. Yeah, he prepares his meal. He is the son of a god, he's violent, but he's sophisticated.

SPEAKER_12 1:20:04

Well, when you say like he bashed his head and then prepared his meal.

SPEAKER_03 1:20:07

I just imagine just a bash and then pulls out a knife and fork with a napkin. And like has the head on a fork.

SPEAKER_04 1:20:16

Wasn't quite like it's like a fish, knock it out, and then you get it. But yeah, that's one thing I've found interesting. There was no violence held back, it was very violent. This this story. I was not expecting that.

SPEAKER_03 1:20:37

So, yes, it's quite violent. Um, but this is the uh this is kind of the part I always like love to reference when I was talking to my wife about the Odyssey. I was like, this is such a funny little prank that Odysseus pulls on Cyclops. Because Odysseus makes a plan. Basically, they plan to poke Cyclops' eye out, but while he's giving him the wine, Cyclops is like talking to Odysseus to be like, Oh, tell me what's your name? And he says, My name's nobody.

SPEAKER_00 1:21:10

He's like, and he finds it pretty funny, like, oh, your name's nobody?

SPEAKER_03 1:21:14

Well, I will eat nobody last. That's the gift I give to you. Acting so benevolent towards Odysseus. So when they heat up the steak and poke Cyclops' eye out, he's yelling.

SPEAKER_08 1:21:26

All his Cyclops neighbors are like, hey, because the Cyclops' name was Polythemus. Polythemus.

SPEAKER_00 1:21:33

Polythemus. What's happening? Is someone taking your sheep? And he goes, Ah, nobody's attacking me, nobody's blinding me. Which, oh, such a funny prank. This is like Dungeons and Dragons silliness, man.

SPEAKER_04 1:21:49

I love it. Oh, I just imagine these other cyclops like polytheists in there screaming. They're just like, nobody, nobody. They're like, oh, okay.

SPEAKER_00 1:22:05

We can't help you with that. Sorry, uh don't get sick next time, I guess.

SPEAKER_08 1:22:12

I can't help but be thinking of the wishbone game.

SPEAKER_01 1:22:16

Oh, polydemus, you have fun with nobody.

SPEAKER_03 1:22:25

Yeah. But now Cyclops is blinded and he has to let his sheep out to feed, so he moves the boulder, and that's when they cling on to the sheep and they get out, which I'm like, oh, well, he feels on top of the sheep because he's like, they must be riding on top of the sheep if they're gonna try and get out on the sheep.

SPEAKER_08 1:22:41

Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 1:22:42

Yeah, just a great display of Odysseus's cunning and his ability to think up of a plan and outwit his more imposing opponents.

SPEAKER_08 1:22:55

If there were more cyclops on the island, then he wouldn't want them involved.

SPEAKER_03 1:23:00

Yeah, that's true. But as they leave, Odysseus gets a little cocky and yells to Cyclops saying, Yeah, it's Odysseus!

SPEAKER_00 1:23:09

He's the one that you tell everyone it was Odysseus.

SPEAKER_04 1:23:13

Dare I say his biggest mistake.

SPEAKER_03 1:23:16

Yes, it's pretty much the catalyst for why his journey takes so long. Because Cyclops, the Cyclops are the offspring of Poseidon, god of the sea and earthquakes, and he uh Polythemus prays to Poseidon, saying, please just destroy him. But if it's the God's will that he returns home, make sure that everyone he knows on his journey dies, and he's the only one that has to live with that guilt. And that's pretty much spoil it. That's pretty much what happens. That's what happens. But the fun part is seeing how it happens.

SPEAKER_04 1:23:49

So I will say he does go through the ringer. Odysseus. Poseidon does make his life a living hell, for sure.

SPEAKER_03 1:24:02

Every which way. So what what refreshment are what's the island after Cyclops?

SPEAKER_08 1:24:08

Is that it is the the civilization of the winds, Aeolius. That's right. Aeolus and the bag of winds, yeah. That's right.

SPEAKER_03 1:24:16

And this is a fun little, I guess, little adventure that kind of makes you a little frustrated for Odysseus.

SPEAKER_08 1:24:23

Frustrated because he he's he's a clever guy, but man, his crew.

SPEAKER_03 1:24:27

His crew screws things up for him so much. So now you're like, man, I guess they did have to die in order for him to get home. Well, which I also I guess there is a reference.

SPEAKER_08 1:24:37

I I don't know if it was in the book or if it was in the video we watched, but uh somewhere in the translation, his crew is being influenced by Poseidon. Like, and it seems like the gods can, in a way, push people to do things and not have to necessarily be there, but like kind of at least kind of influence them. So it seems like Poseidon is messing with his crew.

SPEAKER_03 1:24:59

Yeah, and when the crew does kind of screw things up from the book, did say it was surely the will of the gods for this to happen, kind of thing. But at is it Aeolus, you said? Yeah, yeah. In the kingdom of Aeolis, Odysseus gets a pretty neat magical bag that just holds all the winds that will blow his ship at like all the bad winds that would have hurt his ship. It's all in a bag.

SPEAKER_08 1:25:24

Referenced in SpongeBob movie.

SPEAKER_03 1:25:29

So basically, from Aeolis, it's smooth sailing, and they see Ithaca. That's when he decides to fall asleep, and his crew just goes, you know, he's probably got a bunch of treasure in there. He's got some treasure. Let's take a handful of gold each, and they open it, and bada bing, bada boom, they're back where they started.

SPEAKER_08 1:25:45

Which this is where I have beef with Odysseus, because you know, he could have told his crew, I mean, he told them, don't touch it, don't mess with it. But like, I mean, at least tell them there's winds in there. Is he that clever, or is he? I mean, I again makes a mistake.

SPEAKER_13 1:26:04

That's true, the cutting claim is no longer holding. Is he? Maybe he's just lucky.

SPEAKER_03 1:26:11

But no, it's the will of the gods. Yes, that's what it is that stopped him. So that blows him all the way back to Aeolus' kingdom, and they're like, Oh, you're obviously an idiot. The gods want you to lose, so we're not gonna welcome you kingdom. Yeah, exactly. The king is like, we told you not to do it, and you did it. So we are not welcoming you. And they shut the doors on them. Yep. I feel like I'm talking too much. Do you any of you guys want to take charge? I just know we have a lot of ground to cover, but we don't want to be too long.

SPEAKER_08 1:26:46

I mean, it it it was pretty simple. I think it was just representing um that the the dangers around his crew, right? And and how um, you know, it wasn't just about Odysseus, like he had to deal with the people around him and and them running into temptations. So um yeah, each each story kind of narrates a flaw, like you were saying, uh that that shows up in mankind. Um, the Lotus Eaters forgetting your purpose, uh, with Paul Themus Pride, this one it was temptation, right? The the idea of not knowing what's there and then falling into that trap. So yeah, and then after this, uh it's the Lastigonians, which again, when you when you guys talk about like kind of drifting off and and zoning out as you're listening to the book or reading it, uh this was a part. I totally missed the spot where they were giants. I was picturing normal sized people jumping on Odysseus's crew and just tearing them apart. Come on, come later as I'm reviewing it and listening to other things. Oh, that makes sense. Giants.

SPEAKER_04 1:28:02

I mean, it's it's it's a very short part mentioned in the book, and um there's a part in the trailer where they come across these giants that just look like they massacre Odysseus's crew.

SPEAKER_08 1:28:18

So do you know if this is gonna be rated R?

SPEAKER_04 1:28:20

Is it gonna be I bet it is Troy? Yeah, I'm not sure as far as the rating, but um to bring up O Brother Where Art Thou, um did it bug you guys that O Brother Where Art Thou didn't follow the same timeline as the Odyssey because the sirens were like one of the first things I came to and then the Cyclops was later on turned him into a toe. And I also felt like it was very loosely based on the Odyssey.

SPEAKER_08 1:28:59

Yes, I think it was more like story structure themes, but yeah, not a one-to-one.

SPEAKER_03 1:29:05

Yeah, you can definitely see a lot of parallels to the Odyssey, and they do claim, yeah, this is inspired by the Odyssey, but they definitely had a lot of freedom. They took a lot of freedom, and it it never bothered me, seeing as how it's still debated on what the order of all the poem is. So, for all we know, this is just what's been accepted by most. So the fact they did it out of order, uh, it didn't bother me at all. Yeah.

SPEAKER_08 1:29:32

Okay. Yeah, I think uh it's it's basically the story of a man trying to get home to his wife before she's married off. That kind of yeah, fits the Odyssey pretty well, which is why I think and again the allusions that's the word I was looking for earlier. The allusions to the Odyssey with like Cyclops, sirens, and other things that fit the story so well. And it and again, it is a story that is so adaptable to other stories. And again, uh it is I think that's part of the fondness, is it could you can yeah, you can take bits and pieces and fit it into your own story or whatever you're writing or developing. Um, it it can just fit in so well because it is a hero's journey in essence. Yeah. Next we have Circe's Island, where the enchantress, which um again, uh is Odysseus clever or lucky, uh Hermes shows up after Odysseus's men are turned into pigs. Hermes shows up and is like, hey, here's a flower that only the gods can pick, and eat and if if a human picks it and eats it, they die.

SPEAKER_13 1:30:40

So uh man who's hated by the gods, he's sure getting some good help from the gods.

SPEAKER_04 1:30:47

Well, he's he's hated and loved because Athena loves him.

SPEAKER_13 1:30:50

Yeah, Athena loves him, and Herbs helps him. She's a weird whole time.

SPEAKER_04 1:30:54

Weird crush on him, but for some reason, isn't like stepping in and blocking like Poseidon.

SPEAKER_03 1:31:01

Well, that's because Poseidon is her uncle, uh, it's the brother of her father. So she so there's obviously a uh family hierarchy that you don't want to disturb that. Yeah.

SPEAKER_04 1:31:14

One of Odysseus's crew, he was the reason. Also, Odysseus with a U.

SPEAKER_13 1:31:21

What was his name? Like Ulemaches or something.

SPEAKER_03 1:31:26

Eulemocles.

SPEAKER_04 1:31:28

Yeah. See, I I I didn't even try to remember.

SPEAKER_03 1:31:34

Oh, see, this all these other things reading the Silverillion, and you're trying to remember all the sons of Faeinor, all seven brothers, like uh Eurylochus.

SPEAKER_08 1:31:45

I think it was Eurylochus. Yes. He was like the second in command, yeah.

SPEAKER_03 1:31:49

Yeah, because he went in first with all his men and saw all his men get turned into pigs, and he ran and told Odysseus, which I love the setup because as they're walking in, they're seeing wolves and lions looking docile, and they're like, What's going on here? And as he's running out there, that's when he realizes, oh my gosh, these are other people who fell for Circe's trick. Yeah. Oh, I loved it. It's it's just such a DD campaign. Such a good encounter in DD. I love it.

SPEAKER_08 1:32:18

Again, referencing Wishbow. Eurylicus is a sap, a sad sap. He's when you first meet him, you're like trying to get him to do something. And he's like, Oh, but Odysseus, my thumb hurts.

SPEAKER_10 1:32:31

I sprained my thumb.

SPEAKER_08 1:32:34

You're like, can we just leave this guy?

SPEAKER_10 1:32:39

The story, in the actual story, he's actually supposed to be helpful, but not in wishbones, I guess.

SPEAKER_04 1:32:46

I feel like this is a fever dream or something that you just imagine.

SPEAKER_12 1:32:51

This can't be real dream game. No, I am looking up this cyclop. I am looking this up because that sounds funny as hell you can do.

SPEAKER_08 1:33:00

Play it for free in a browser. I you just look up the game and it's right there, first like thing. But you can't.

SPEAKER_00 1:33:06

I just want to see the cyclops beat. I am looking this up after this episode.

SPEAKER_08 1:33:09

I'll challenge you because that's so funny. Oh, yeah. Just just I mean, great, great going through the story because I think it hits it pretty well beat for beat.

SPEAKER_03 1:33:21

Um, and I'll have to get back to you when I finally finish it, but I just say it's how you have like this biggest crush on this game.

SPEAKER_08 1:33:32

Just keep reading. Pure nostalgia, pure nostalgia, even though it was an absolute pain as a child, but that's crazy.

SPEAKER_10 1:33:39

Just nostalgia.

SPEAKER_08 1:33:41

Yeah. But all right, listen, do you guys think without the without the flower, would you fall for Cersei's trap? I mean, like, you're hungry, you're sailing on the sea. Yeah. This beautiful woman is just like, here's some food. I love how she's just like when they're eating, she just pulls out her wand and is like, yeah.

SPEAKER_04 1:34:05

So uh is she the um the white witch in Narnia? Cersei.

SPEAKER_07 1:34:14

Cersei. Just like name-wise, or no, she kind of is similar.

SPEAKER_08 1:34:19

Oh, like trapping the references got the idea for the white witch. That could be, especially with Edmund, you know, trapping him with the food. Yeah.

SPEAKER_04 1:34:34

Yeah, not necessarily turning him into an animal, but into stone.

SPEAKER_08 1:34:39

Yeah.

SPEAKER_04 1:34:40

But interesting.

SPEAKER_07 1:34:42

Yeah, that's a cool reference. I haven't heard that. That was just the thought.

SPEAKER_04 1:34:51

It just had to be a little dramatic.

SPEAKER_08 1:34:53

No, that that's a cool reference. I haven't thought about that. But but honestly, that the importance of reading the Odyssey is being able to see the references. And you're right, that like looking back on that, that totally is a fitting reference with the witch's wand and and the temptation of the food. Um, but man, to be turned into a pig and then be completely aware of you're now a pig.

SPEAKER_03 1:35:17

But you're like the human brain is very horrifying. Oh my gosh. Like, that's kind of worse than spirited away with the parents turning into pig.

SPEAKER_00 1:35:26

Like, did they know that they were humans that are trapped as pigs? Like, I don't know, man. I don't know.

SPEAKER_04 1:35:32

Terrifying. I kind of imagine like the Pinocchio when uh his friend gets turned into a donkey. Horrifying. So scary.

SPEAKER_08 1:35:42

I I got I just got Pinocchio on VHS, but I'm like hesitant to show my daughter because of that specific scene.

SPEAKER_03 1:35:50

Are you talking like the live action one? What are you talking about? Yeah, dude, I showed my boy that, man. Dude, that is epic kid horror. It is pure horror. It is that is a rite of passage in childhood. You need to be terrified of beer and cigarettes.

SPEAKER_05 1:36:07

They will turn you into a jackass.

SPEAKER_08 1:36:12

Yeah, they uh Simpson's reference of the of their of the Odyssey story is so funny. It was probably it made me laugh out loud. But so Homer shows up after his crew is all drinking of the potion, turned into pigs, and he's like, guys, I could have used some.

SPEAKER_10 1:36:30

And he's like, Oh, some food. He walks up and he literally just starts eating his crewmates. And he's he finishes eating and he's like, Oh, that was great. And Cersei's like, You just ate your crew, and he's like, What? I just ate my crew.

SPEAKER_00 1:36:47

She's like, I've been saying that for the past hour.

SPEAKER_09 1:36:52

Like classic Homer moment, just straight uh bites into a raw pig.

SPEAKER_08 1:36:59

Oh my goodness. Love the Simpsons. Yep, Simpsonized stories, just fantastic. Yep.

SPEAKER_03 1:37:08

Remind me how does he get away with well because Hermes is giving Hermes basically gave him the antidote. Yeah, yeah. And then he says, Yeah, once Cersei sees that her magic doesn't work on you, pull your sword out on her, and this is not a reference to anything but a physical sword. I see you in the comments. Uh and she'll be scared. But this is also a time when you know she invites him to bed, and that's like and he goes, but he makes that promise hey, no funny business, no trickery, and make my men back into men, okay? And yeah, basically gets the deal with her. And but she kind of foretells the next few challenges for them and kind of tells because they still they're still at this point wondering why things are going so bad. They don't know that it's Poseidon's doing. Yeah. And then she's the one that tells them about the sirens and what to do. About the sirens, about the impossible choice, and I think on going to the edge of the world to oh, yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_08 1:38:14

First they gotta go to Hades. Yeah, they gotta go to Hades to commit. Which is funny because most of what she tells them he learns in Hades. And there's only a little bit of extra, like he learns there, but it's like the journey to Hades was just kind of to reference. And this is kind of interesting.

SPEAKER_04 1:38:29

But wasn't the journey to Hades also to see what happened to Agamemnon. Agamemnon. Yeah, King Agamemnon. Agamemnon. Agamemnon.

SPEAKER_13 1:38:42

Agamemnon. Oh my gosh.

SPEAKER_04 1:38:49

You know, because he returned his story. He returned right away and he was betrayed by his wife. And so I think that's that sucks. That foretold the reasoning behind when Odysseus finally returned, that he was a lot more careful about.

SPEAKER_08 1:39:06

Favorite quote from the book? Don't trust a woman.

unknown 1:39:08

Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 1:39:12

If you learn anything from the Odyssey, I do wonder if that's in Emily Wilson's translation. She just happens to admit it. But she tells him to go to the edge of the world down to Hades. And I thought this part was so cool where they just they kill the sheep, and the the blood causes the ghosts all to appear. They all drink and they all drink so they can talk. But what's also sucks is his one of his crewmates just woke up on Cersei's Island, walked off the roof, and died. And then they see he sees them there. He's like, How'd you guys get here so fast? Can you bury me? How'd you guys get here so fast? I got here without a shirt, but you're just you're right after me. Can you go bury me, please? Poor guy. Poor guy. Poor guy. But they talk to the priest of uh that's it's the name I forgot, but he's the one that has all the information and tells him, yeah, you you you ticked off Poseidon, dude. That's why things are going so bad. No, Tyrese. No, I don't think it's Tyresius.

SPEAKER_08 1:40:12

Uh I can't remember, but yeah, it gets all the info. Um a lot is repeated from what Cersei was telling him, but um, I think this is this is an interesting part of Greek mythology, which plays into um if you read into like few like the some of the future stories uh from like medieval, which again medieval mythology very heavily influenced by Greek story.

SPEAKER_03 1:40:43

Tiresias. The blind prophet of Thebes? Yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_08 1:40:46

There we go.

SPEAKER_03 1:40:47

Yeah, this Tyresius. You got me.

SPEAKER_09 1:40:50

No, I just proved you're right. Yeah, I really got you.

SPEAKER_08 1:40:55

But uh you see this play into a lot of medieval mythology, meany medieval stories, where they love to reference heroes and and famous characters, which I think is a big reason he goes to Hades, is he sees Agamemnon, he sees uh Achilles, he sees uh Jack Ajax? Ajax, yeah, Ajax. Like they're all these big heroes, and again, they were people he worked with, but it's like it's a referencing, it's like bringing into these famous characters, and even Hercules, he even sees Hercules, which is kind of crazy because it's the the body of Hercules, but Hercules is immortal as a god, but it's still like it's his physical body in Hades or something like that, or it's his spirit or something. I don't know exactly how it works, but uh it's it's just a pure reference session. And uh if you read it is a sequel, they have to reference the the original. But if you read uh Dante's Inferno, Dante pretty much does the same thing where he he just calls out these random characters in as he's going through hell, and he's like, Oh yeah, there's uh this character over here from this special story, and this character over here from this special story. So it's it's very much a uh similar theme throughout these stories where you can see even in mythology in myth mythological times, they were referencing the Odyssey, they were referencing it in a way, or even Greek stories trying to play out in a similar fashion, kind of narrating in the same way.

SPEAKER_04 1:42:24

Well, I think we if we wrote about hell, like now, we would reference like Hitler. Yeah, being a we saw Hitler down there, we saw Stalin down there. Exactly.

SPEAKER_03 1:42:35

So I can see how that would be. Yeah, that seems like a common common practice, I guess, common human reaction.

SPEAKER_08 1:42:43

Oh yeah. When you can reference, especially famous people. Yeah.

SPEAKER_04 1:42:48

There was a quote by Achilles I enjoyed. Oh yeah. Uh, I think this is more of a modern translation from it. I didn't get it from the the version we read. Said, I'd rather be plowing a furrow than a lord among these empty souls.

SPEAKER_08 1:43:06

Yeah, because he pretty much was like glorified amongst the dead.

SPEAKER_03 1:43:10

Yeah, he pretty much chose glory in like life, but it was a short life because he got glory in battle and and died really quick. But he was pretty much saying, I would have rather lived long and lowly as a baker. Yeah, long and lowly, and it would have been way more fruitful than what I have here.

SPEAKER_08 1:43:26

Yeah, I do I do love that perspective.

SPEAKER_03 1:43:28

That was yeah, that was yeah, that gave me chills.

SPEAKER_08 1:43:31

Really builds the contrast between the life and then the afterworld. Even in a glorious afterworld, it kind of represents how life is so much more important, physical life. Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 1:43:43

Life is a life is a treasure. Life is beautiful. Oh, yeah. Treasure it, cherish it. What's a miracle if life itself is not. Yeah, trying to live a life with no regrets.

SPEAKER_04 1:43:54

No regrets, no regrets, no regurts, no regirds, no regurgitations. So yeah, let's move on to the next one.

SPEAKER_03 1:44:01

Yeah, so after they commune with the ghosts and they finally realize, oh, it's Poseidon we ticked off. Oh, okay. They now leave the underworld, and this is where they go back to Cersei's Island to bury that one dude. Rest in peace, my man.

SPEAKER_08 1:44:16

Rest in peace.

SPEAKER_03 1:44:17

And from then, this is where I'm getting once again a little jumbled sirens. Sirens, okay. So it is the sirens first not okay, okay. It's not the two monsters.

SPEAKER_10 1:44:27

Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 1:44:28

Okay, the sirens. Classic Greek mythology. We we all know it, we love it. It's hard to not know what that is at this point.

SPEAKER_04 1:44:36

What I find interesting, and you can maybe elaborate on the whole purpose of why Odysseus did this. You know, he's uh he had all his crew put wax in their ears so they couldn't hear and be influenced by the sirens, and then he had them tie him to the mast of the ship so he couldn't move. What was the whole purpose? Was that just Odysseus being prideful once again and being like, I'm special, so I get to I gotta hear the sirens and the secrets of the sirens and nobody else?

SPEAKER_08 1:45:09

I I think there's a there's a lot that goes into it because in Greek mythology you there is a special character. I mean, you have uh Perseus, you have Odysseus, you have Hercules, you have Jason and the Argonauts. Um they they tend to be the focal point where everyone else is really a side character. Um so the gods pretty much told Odysseus, hey, you should do this, you should listen to the siren song. But beyond that, I think it was a it was a preparation too, um in in knowing your enemy kind of thing, where he could have his he could rely on his crew to you know cover keep their ears covered and to and to row through and then also keep him secure, um, so that he could kind of have a greater understanding of the enemy in a way. So it was it was more of his tactics kind of coming out, right? Like uh being able to understand his enemy and prepare for whatever danger or weakness there could come of that.

SPEAKER_03 1:46:11

Well, I think he wanted to hear the song. I think I remember hearing the mention of that where he just wanted to hear it, but he also knew the dangers of hearing it. Yeah, so he got tied up, and I don't think he knew, but after, since there was a mortal who resisted the siren song, they ended up killing themselves because yeah, if a mortal was ever to resist their song, they would it would just be their death. So I I don't it don't I don't remember the text ever saying he knew that would happen, but if he did, good job. You just rid a danger on the seas for anyone else.

SPEAKER_04 1:46:44

I wonder if I think it was the gods kind of preparing him to Cersei Circe was the one that told him to do it. So I wonder if like she had the purpose of trying to kill the sirens.

SPEAKER_08 1:46:56

She knew that something that the gods didn't like each other.

SPEAKER_03 1:47:00

Well, I did love the imagery of the sirens island as they were singing that they were surrounded by countless bones of men who tried to get to their island before and then they ended up just jumping into the sea and ended up becoming bones with them. Boom. I just think skeletons are cool, man.

SPEAKER_04 1:47:16

They're totally metal. Oh yeah. Yeah, the Simpsons version is pretty funny. They're singing the Copa Cabana. Yeah.

SPEAKER_08 1:47:25

It's Patty and Selma. They're like, oh, get out of here.

SPEAKER_10 1:47:30

They're idiots.

SPEAKER_03 1:47:32

Oh yeah. But after the sirens, we come to is it it's the it's the impossible choice, right? Yep. The two monsters, uh Scylla and Caribos. Charybdis.

SPEAKER_08 1:47:45

Charybdis, yeah.

SPEAKER_03 1:47:45

Yes, Charybdis.

SPEAKER_08 1:47:46

Caribos. Which I was just saying what I thought the word was.

SPEAKER_03 1:47:53

Well, I was struggling to remember Charybdis. I'm like, it's and then you start saying Caribos, I'm like, well, that's not it. Not as modern Charybdis. But here's like another instance of monsters, which this is why I love mythology, is just monsters, where you have Charybdis, a giant whirlpool that's always sucking in the sea and always spitting it out as well.

SPEAKER_08 1:48:15

I like how they named it too. This is it's so formidable. It's like, it's a thing.

SPEAKER_03 1:48:19

Yeah, it's a thing. It has an identity, and it's like right by one cliff at in this strait they have to sail through. And then on the other side, you have a cliff with caves, and out of one cave is a monster named Sila with six heads, 12 feet, and three rows of teeth. Oh my goodness. Which I've looked up some of the artwork there, like there's some crazy depictions of Sila.

SPEAKER_08 1:48:44

Yeah, it's meant to be this like almost in in a in unconceivable monstrosity.

SPEAKER_00 1:48:52

Yes. And it's inconceivable. Unconceivable.

SPEAKER_07 1:49:00

Unconceivable. Oh, heaven help me today.

SPEAKER_03 1:49:05

But this is gives the impossible choice because if they go close too close to Charybdis, well, they are.

SPEAKER_08 1:49:12

Do you pull the lever or not?

SPEAKER_03 1:49:14

Yep. And this is where Odysseus picks the lesser of two evils, and they sail next to Sela. And well, her six heads take six people, and because she can't take any more, they can escape. And notice they don't take Odysseus. Yeah, simple math. Well, in there it says that he makes the choice without telling his men, and he says, Okay, let's sail to the right. And so he knows what's so he knew what was coming. So he knew how to dodge it. So it makes it a little more believable why he didn't get snatched.

SPEAKER_08 1:49:45

Yep.

SPEAKER_03 1:49:46

But he's but I believe it says in the text that the faces of those men that they took would haunt him for the rest of his life. And like they don't go out unscathed, but they went with the only choice that they could to press. For which I was I was a little disappointed that Sila only got such such little screen time because this is like an equivalent of a Hydra here, an inconceivable.

SPEAKER_09 1:50:10

I'm like, come on, man.

SPEAKER_03 1:50:14

Give me some more of that. Give me some more, please. Give me some more. Uh actually, funny question. You think Sila inspired Celia at Monsters Inc.? Because she's got her main head and her five snake heads. Yeah. So six heads.

SPEAKER_04 1:50:31

Again.

SPEAKER_03 1:50:31

Oh, reference.

SPEAKER_04 1:50:32

Hey, reference. I mean, I thought she was Medusa. No, she looks like Medusa, but Celia.

SPEAKER_06 1:50:43

Oh, Celia.

SPEAKER_04 1:50:47

So yeah. This pretty much comes to the point where you're halfway through the book. This is only halfway.

SPEAKER_03 1:50:56

Well, we're almost done with the actual journey. And after the journey, there's still a lot more after that. Oh, yeah. Because they end up getting to the Isle of the Cows, where the sun god or Helios' cows are there. And these guys have been starving for months at this time. And they end up killing some cows or a cow. And that's when they there's um, I know Helios says, I will drive the sun into the underworld if you don't do something about this, Zeus.

SPEAKER_08 1:51:25

Zeus. And Zeus is like, well, I can't happen.

SPEAKER_03 1:51:30

Because Zeus didn't really want to do anything, but he's just like, Oh wow, you're whining about not seeing one of your cows. Uh I can't let the sun go into the underworld.

SPEAKER_08 1:51:39

It's pretty wild with the cows, too, because they talk about them like the remains of the cows still like moving and being alive after they consumed them. It's pretty nasty.

SPEAKER_03 1:51:53

But it's because of this choice that I believe they try to sail away, and that's when like Zeus sends a storm and just it pretty much takes out everyone, yeah. But Odysseus kills the whole crew. And this is where Odysseus ends up on a plank onto Calypso's island. We've now gone full circle.

SPEAKER_08 1:52:12

Done with Odysseus' tale. You like how Calypso just finds him and's like, I want this. I want you. You're mine now. She saw him and went. He's perfect.

SPEAKER_09 1:52:23

Perfect.

SPEAKER_03 1:52:25

She was basically like old Greg. Oh, can you love me? Can you learn to love me? Can you learn to love me?

SPEAKER_04 1:52:33

What do you think about it? Sure, but I still like my wife. But I'll sleep with God.

SPEAKER_03 1:52:42

So then with the the Phoenicians there, like, oh, great story. Let's get you home, man. Here's a bunch of gold. Yeah, here's a bunch of gold.

SPEAKER_04 1:52:51

But hold on. I got a I got a fan theory right now. Alright, fan theory. This is my theory. I heard this, I heard this reference. It's not my reference, um, which I thought was interesting. The so the whole part, the whole Odyssey part where he's coming across all these islands with all these mythical creatures and and mythical items. This only happens from book nine to book twelve. The whole part where he's telling his tale to the king or the so there's no witnesses to the story besides Odysseus, um, which I find interesting. I wonder if there's if there's actually some meaning behind this, that maybe this this whole story was just Odysseus Odysseus being wise and cunning and telling them such a grand tale that they're like, oh, that was a great tale. Let's give you all this gold. Let's get you home.

SPEAKER_03 1:54:04

It's pretty much like how in all the fantasy stories, like, if you tell us a good enough story, we'll give you anything you want. Like Bior, like Gandalf with Bjorn and Bjorn just being like, I gotta prove this story. And he was so happy with that story and found out it was true that he just gave them all the food and logic that they could possibly want.

SPEAKER_11 1:54:22

Oh, yeah.

SPEAKER_03 1:54:22

Yeah, exactly.

SPEAKER_08 1:54:23

I actually thought the same thing when I after I read it because it is reminiscent of a of a dad making up an excuse why he's coming home late.

SPEAKER_10 1:54:35

Sorry, sweetheart. You wouldn't believe the line supermodel.

SPEAKER_04 1:54:40

So here's my fan theory, though. I didn't have that thought that was uh somebody else's, but here's mine. I so this is what I think. Odysseus did partake of the lotus, and with the lotus, it doesn't just make you forget, it gives you hallucinations. And so all of Odysseus and his his crew and him partook of the lotus, and then they tried to sail, and they were shipwrecked, and Odysseus came and floated up onto that island, and that's the tale that he had. That's the hallucinations that he had.

SPEAKER_06 1:55:18

What he experienced.

SPEAKER_04 1:55:19

So he just told about a huge drug trip. Yep, exactly.

SPEAKER_03 1:55:23

It still lasted over like the whole 20 years because Telemachus hasn't had a dad for 20 years. Yeah, I guess that's true. So he could have been on the island of the lotus eaters all that time and then just like somehow got off the island of the city. Calypso might have been the only real part.

unknown 1:55:42

Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 1:55:43

Well, it had to be real because another guy free pretty much bear hugged another god to find out where Odysseus was, and that god said, Yeah, he's with Calypso, I swear. Trust me, bro.

SPEAKER_10 1:55:56

Trust me, bro. Trust me, bro. Well, anyways, that was just it.

SPEAKER_08 1:56:01

That's yeah, that's a worthy uh theory considering the the connections that can be made. And I honestly think that's why, again, the story is so flexible, is you could make elements of it more into a ethereal aspect of yeah, like maybe he didn't quite, maybe the the Cyclops and the Giants weren't real things, but they were more metaphysical. Uh him getting past those was him getting past using the lotus and getting away from the lotus, you know, in a in a way. So you you could take symbolical, sym symbolical symbolical meanings.

SPEAKER_03 1:56:40

Symbolical, symbolical symbolical, symbolical, no, symbolical, diabolical, symbolical.

SPEAKER_04 1:56:48

But anyway, this is I feel like this part in the in the story to continue on is actually lesser known. Um, because I didn't quite know about this part, but I knew I knew of like the whole you know the challenge that Penelope had. Um but I I didn't put the two together. It's like Odysseus shows up and he's like, ah, I'm here, I'm gonna do it. Yeah, so I gotta say, I thoroughly enjoyed the second half. It's a heist quite a bit more than the the first half because I knew somewhat I knew the the first half a lot more than the second half.

SPEAKER_08 1:57:30

I I will say the first half though, it it kind of runs into the same problem of Lord of the Rings with me, where it's him telling the story, and that's kind of what I missed.

SPEAKER_03 1:57:39

I heard that sentence was weird. I heard problem and Lord of the Rings in the same sentence. What? What?

SPEAKER_08 1:57:45

Yes, what is the problem with the Lord of the Rings books? Because a majority of the Lord of the Rings battles are them just talking about them afterwards. So all I see is them saying, Oh man, wasn't that such a cool part of the battle? Rather than the actual battle scene. So, I mean, granted, there's there's you know learning how to imagine it better, but part of yeah, I think with the Odysseus telling the story is it can just be him telling the story rather than it playing out. So I think that's why the him getting back to Ithaca and the whole heist is a lot more engaging because it's actually happening moment for moment, at least for me. Yeah, and it's a love story.

SPEAKER_04 1:58:29

It just you know sleeping with random gods, some good feels. One of my favorite parts in it is when he meets up with Telemachus. I thought that was very touching.

SPEAKER_03 1:58:41

Yeah, oh yeah, that is very touching, especially with how Telemachus just wanted his dad in his life.

SPEAKER_08 1:58:48

Uh-huh. Athena just removes all the makeup and yeah, there's no Odysseus.

SPEAKER_03 1:58:53

Let's include your son in this, you know? Dad! Yeah, daddy, you're there, which I don't know why the word daddy's in the in the trailer for the Odyssey. Did you notice that? Oh, is it? Yeah, Tom Holland says it.

SPEAKER_08 1:59:08

Yeah, I've been kind of avoiding it.

SPEAKER_03 1:59:10

Yeah, it's it's one of the controversies where like, why is he saying daddy? That's not how they talked back in that day.

SPEAKER_04 1:59:18

Father.

SPEAKER_12 1:59:19

Father.

SPEAKER_04 1:59:20

Yeah. But uh, yep, he meets up with Telemachus, meets up with the noble sheepherder. What's his name? Loyal sheepherder. Yeah, loyal sheepherder. What was his name?

SPEAKER_06 1:59:34

Oh boop.

SPEAKER_04 1:59:38

Yeah, something like that.

SPEAKER_06 1:59:39

Eumaeus. Eumaus. Yeah, Eumaus.

SPEAKER_04 1:59:43

Yeah, loyal sheepherder, Emaeus. And that's that's part of like what was that what bugged me a little bit about the writing being so poetic, but it because it's like every time Athena's introduced or talked about, it's Athena, daughter of Zeus, Telemachus, son of Odysseus.

SPEAKER_08 2:00:01

You guys want to see the list of Odysseus's names?

SPEAKER_04 2:00:04

Yeah, it's never just Seawandering Odysseus. Odysseus, Odysseus, son of a lot of issus.

SPEAKER_08 2:00:14

Odysseus, the far-roaming hero. Odysseus. A lot of yeses. The muck of true lot of yeses.

SPEAKER_04 2:00:23

A lot of yeses. A lot of yeses. Yeah. But anyways, I I did love that having uh the the sheep herder dude kind of you know recognize Odysseus even with his disguise.

SPEAKER_08 2:00:39

So what what I got tired of was every single time Odysseus ran into somebody new, he had to make up a new lie, and it was an entire story. It's like, and this is what I appreciate about the the uh YouTube ice video I sent you, is it it just kind of skips all that. It's like Odysseus just told him a story in the book. It's like, all right, sit down. This is gonna be a minute.

SPEAKER_03 2:01:04

Yep. Yeah, so this whole second half does like because I remember when the it ended, I like looked at my audio and like, oh man, I should be almost done. I was like, I'm like only halfway through.

SPEAKER_00 2:01:14

What the heck? He's home. What's gonna happen?

SPEAKER_08 2:01:17

Yeah, Dissi's is gonna make up like five more stories, which I think fits into the whole like uh uh what you were saying, right? Uh, he could have made up that story considering he made up all these other stories.

SPEAKER_03 2:01:31

Yeah, that's true. So yeah, it does fit that theory.

SPEAKER_04 2:01:33

He is clever, he is wise and cunning.

SPEAKER_03 2:01:36

Yes, but long story short, as he's disguised as this old man, he gets to Penelope's house and he starts kind of goading the suitors into other challenges. And I know they're all like, oh, we can best this old man and a lot of stuff, and they're like betting things, starting with a goat sausage, which I have never wanted goat sausage more in my life before reading this because they're always describing it all thick with fat and blood just roasting. I'm like, oh that sounds good.

SPEAKER_00 2:02:05

I was just imagining this glistening sausage just on an open flay.

SPEAKER_03 2:02:10

I'm like, oh, I want a goat sausage.

SPEAKER_04 2:02:12

Oh my gosh, that sounds so good. Oh, before we get too much into the sausage here, uh I I have to talk about the dog because this was one of my favorite parts as well. The reunion with his dog, but I gotta say, this dog is old. Because and doesn't the dog just die right after he recognizes a disease. Yeah, it was very, very touching. I I love dogs, and this was very um it hit home with me for sure because um I remember our dog Dodger, and I went away on my mission for two years, and when I came home, the reunion with him was one of the most magical moments of my life. Just I saw the recognition in his face, like when he came up to me, it was like, Oh yeah, I remember you, so dodgers, and I was like, Yeah, it's me! It was such a good reunion. Um, I'll I'll always cherish that. Um, so I I just loved how they threw in a dog as you know, recognizing his old master.

SPEAKER_07 2:03:38

It just goes to show for the length of his oh yeah, you go ahead, Derek.

SPEAKER_03 2:03:43

Yeah, it just goes to show for pretty much as long as humans have been able to have dogs as pets, they've loved them. Yeah, dogs are the best. Oh yeah, they're always held in highest esteem.

SPEAKER_08 2:03:54

Emphasizes the length of him being gone, too, because it was 20 years and the dog had waited, waited so long that it barely held on till uh when it finally could see him, then it died.

SPEAKER_04 2:04:05

Yeah, oldest dog in history. Yeah, probably like 25 years old.

unknown 2:04:11

Holy cow.

SPEAKER_04 2:04:19

So, I mean, that's that's at least a year, two years. So the dog is 22 minutes. 22 to 25. That's long for a dog. Yeah, oh my gosh. That's really long for a dog. But anyways, we can get back into it. Yeah, get back to that sausage.

SPEAKER_12 2:04:39

I just I just wanted to see if you guys had the same feelings as I did.

SPEAKER_03 2:04:43

It's like the same effect as you know, the goofy movie pizza, where you're just like, why is this so good? Or like the land before time eating the grass. You're like, oh, that looks one of those moments.

SPEAKER_08 2:04:55

I just remember listening to the audio. I just remember listening to the audio.

SPEAKER_12 2:05:00

He's like, why am I so hungry all of a sudden?

SPEAKER_13 2:05:02

I'm like, I was at work, I'm like in a ceiling, and I'm like, why am I so hungry all of a sudden?

SPEAKER_12 2:05:07

Like my son is like, I want to go to Wiener Snitch right now. I want a Polish sausage right now. This is weird.

SPEAKER_04 2:05:18

I I can't say that I actually remember the sausage for me.

SPEAKER_03 2:05:26

This is just me. I guess I guess my word of advice to you, dear viewer, don't listen or read the Odyssey when you're hungry.

SPEAKER_08 2:05:42

Picturing Homer just eating a solid pig like a gummy. Yeah.

SPEAKER_04 2:05:52

So yep. Yep. What happens next is um Odysseus, yep. He's uh he's disguised still, and Penelope comes up with this plan. She'd love to pretty much be shaking. Yeah. Because Penelope hasn't quite recognized Odysseus, but I think she has her her, you know, she thinks it's him type thing, and so she comes up with this plan where it's like I this is a plan where I can make sure every suitor fails, and only Odysseus can do it. So he has to they have to string Odysseus' bow, which is only Odysseus can do. And but am I wrong remembering this wrong? Didn't Telemachus he was like just about to string it, and then he like got a look, he looked at Odysseus and he's like, no. Yeah, and then he's like, okay, I'm just gonna.

SPEAKER_08 2:06:54

Because Telemachus is like, hey, I'm the I'm the man here. I gotta do this first.

SPEAKER_04 2:07:00

Yeah. But honestly, this was probably my favorite part is when Odysseus finally, you know, strings that in front of all the suitors.

SPEAKER_08 2:07:11

Old man, yeah. I just love how Penelope too is like, I'm not gonna marry him. But let him try.

SPEAKER_04 2:07:19

Yeah, yeah, and then he just goes up, strings it, bam.

SPEAKER_03 2:07:24

Right through screens, which people have done this in real life to see if it can actually possible, and it's hecka hard. Yeah, yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_08 2:07:35

With how the the arrow kind of spins through your and like a string and a bow that is supposedly like almost impossible to string. Imagine trying to balance that. Because when you have a bow pulled back, you're like Yeah, you're you're shaking.

SPEAKER_04 2:07:52

Well, Mythbusters did it, and they had to use a compound bow. Did you guys uh watch that episode? I think it was a I don't think it was I think it was Mythbusters with like kids or something, but it's actually a really cool episode. They had to do it with a compound, you know, with a with a pretty strong draw.

SPEAKER_07 2:08:11

Um and well the compound bow also helps to reduce the like the pressure you're feeling.

SPEAKER_04 2:08:17

Yes, yeah, and it's it doesn't have as much whatever they call that wiggle as a as like a recurve or a long bow. But um, you know, they had a they had to strap it down and use a machine to get it to work. But actually, we talked about Corridor Crew, right? Did you guys order them? Corridor Crew, their YouTube channel that they do all the special effects, they did it as a challenge, and one of their guys was able to do it two times. Dang.

SPEAKER_12 2:08:50

That's okay.

SPEAKER_04 2:08:50

I haven't seen that one, no. I don't, I mean, I think they were like really close, and they were, you know, but it was pretty impressive. It's really actually pretty cool.

SPEAKER_03 2:08:59

The fact that it's possible, but it it takes a lot of skill and effort to do, so it really makes you respect Odysseus, just you know, after 20 years, too, just not doing this and just coming in like, I'm just gonna slip into this like an old glove. Oh, yeah. And it's just like I imagine him doing with all the swagger like Robin Hood when he's disguised as the stork, just oh pew, and just folding his arms right after and totally flex it.

SPEAKER_04 2:09:28

When exactly did Athena lift the disguise? Because I imagined it as he strings it as the old man and then he draws it back, and Nancy lets go. The disguise is like a cut, and they're watching the arrow go through, hit the target, and then they look back, and it's Odyssey.

SPEAKER_08 2:09:48

Oh, yeah.

SPEAKER_03 2:09:49

And then the my absolute favorite part, he just turds with the bow and just massacres love story that ends in a bloodbath. So it is so cool. It is, you know, that would be a great way to depict it for Christopher Nolan to depict it, you know, like because I'm seeing what you're saying. Like, he's the old man, he shoots it, and the camera's watching the arrow go through and then hit the target. And then once everyone looks and the camera's back on him, he's as Odysseus, just standing on Gowman. He's already drawn, just pew! Oh yeah.

SPEAKER_08 2:10:26

Christopher Nolan's gonna hear this and be like, ah, crap!

SPEAKER_07 2:10:30

Why didn't you do that? Why didn't I do that? I don't know. I think that would be so cool.

SPEAKER_10 2:10:34

Special director's cut.

SPEAKER_01 2:10:36

But yeah, fix it in post.

SPEAKER_04 2:10:41

We've also decided to give this challenge a try for ourselves. So I've been making kind of a rig up. I excited to see it. Sweet did pretty good. So it'll be cool. Yeah, I did a lot of research. There's not a lot of information about it. There's no like there's no um references to like the distance they shot from, the spacing of the axe heads, the hole in the axe head. There's kind of general consensus that the hole was around two inches, whatever that was, or you know, what they actually shot through. Was it the axe heads? Was it like a ring on the bottom or on the top? There's a lot of different references for that, but we're just we're just kind of doing what we can. I made these cardboard cutouts of axes and cut in like a little hole. So I think it'll be fun. Yeah. We'll give it a try. This will be great fun.

SPEAKER_08 2:11:44

Any any chance to shoot a bow and arrow.

SPEAKER_03 2:11:46

Oh yeah.

SPEAKER_13 2:11:47

It's been a while for me.

SPEAKER_03 2:11:49

It's been a while for me.

SPEAKER_13 2:11:52

So been a wall. It's been a while.

SPEAKER_08 2:11:55

It's been Boy Scouts. Was it Boy Scouts last time? Pretty much. Get that bear fast.

SPEAKER_13 2:12:01

It is always a good time shooting bows and arrows. It's so fun.

SPEAKER_04 2:12:05

But anyways, back to the violence.

unknown 2:12:08

The violence.

SPEAKER_04 2:12:10

You know, him, Telemachus, just massacre all these suitors, and there's not it's not held back. Like I said, it is very violent.

SPEAKER_08 2:12:19

Yeah, even uh it was uh one of the suitors comes and begs, please, I promise I wasn't part of it.

SPEAKER_03 2:12:26

And Odysseus just kills and even he even kills all his servants who were women that had relations with the suitors as well. Like basically saying, Oh, this is what you guys get for being. Telemachus, no mercy. Which this is where I'm a little upset. I'm like, Odysseus, dude, what were you doing with Calypso and Circe while you were gone? And now here you are just telling all your female servants, oh you, you unvirtuous scum. This is your punishment. I'm like, dude.

SPEAKER_08 2:13:02

This is why this is why I picture it as like a soap opera as Homer is telling the story, and he's like, and Odysseus got in Calypso's bed, and all the guys, oh yeah, good Odysseus, and all the whites, ah, oh goodie.

SPEAKER_03 2:13:17

Or maybe it's back to that whole made-up story. It's like, I gotta make up the story. Otherwise, like they gotta know I have kids, people. Otherwise, they're not gonna have any respect.

SPEAKER_04 2:13:27

Oh, yeah. This should be doing something. Calypso lady. Yeah, I slept around that way.

SPEAKER_11 2:13:33

I I didn't want to, but she's a cop. Didn't want to, but I but I did.

SPEAKER_04 2:13:39

But yeah, we should talk about Penelope because she she was the MVP for sure.

SPEAKER_03 2:13:45

Oh yeah. This is she has the loyalty that all of us want in a woman, you know.

SPEAKER_08 2:13:51

Exactly.

SPEAKER_03 2:13:52

She stood, she was very steadfast and just hoped beyond all hope and that her husband would come back and pretty much was making any excuse not to be with any of the suitors. Like she was making like she was working on her loom, like making uh what what's the word? Uh I'm spacing, it's late. Uh what's the word like it's not a quilt, but a tapestry. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Tapestry, but and she said, Yeah, I can't I can't talk to any suitors because I gotta work on this. And when they were all asleep, she would sneak up in the night and pretty much unstitch all her work, so looked like she didn't do anything, and none of them noticed until it's never getting longer until yeah, a servant noticed and kind of narked on her. But talk about commitment, man.

SPEAKER_04 2:14:40

Yeah, she did that for 10 years, too. So you know, she really comes across as very clever and very noble. Like she raised Telemachus by herself, and he turned out to be a very good young man, you know, very loyal to his family. And she must have been taking care of the dog. Yeah, exactly.

SPEAKER_03 2:15:03

So she must have been a good caretaker for the dog. So that that dog was healthy.

SPEAKER_04 2:15:09

But I I like to look at it as Odysseus was faithful. When I look at it at that light, it just becomes such a good love story to me. You know, it is unfortunate that the double standard back then, you know, was not what it is now. Um, you know, men weren't held as to as a high accountability as women. In terms of virtue. Yeah, in terms of virtue.

SPEAKER_08 2:15:43

That is true, but especially amongst the Greeks. I mean, look at Zeus.

SPEAKER_04 2:15:48

He was the head god. But I do like just in my in my own head, just thinking Odysseus was faithful, and it's just like he went back and he had to win back Penelope's love by you know doing this feat of stringing his bow and shooting through those axe heads, you know, even though that was a challenge, cleverly designed by Penelope to pretty much nobody could do it, but get rid of all these piggish suitors the yeah, the whole like premise of it, like he had a winner back, you know.

SPEAKER_08 2:16:25

I I do like to imagine her there, but it is sad that as uh Telemachus is trying to get this organized and string up the bow, he's like, Woman, go to your room. It's just like shouldn't she be there to witness at least you know the feat, and then she can leave for the slaughter. Yeah, she doesn't have to be there for that.

SPEAKER_04 2:16:49

A lot of uh a lot of different uh what's the word? Viewpoints, yeah, viewpoints back then for sure. Yeah, a lot of different standards, standards.

SPEAKER_08 2:17:01

Nevertheless, the story I think the message of the story is still there in his loyalty, his dedication to get back, and her dedication to wait for her husband.

SPEAKER_04 2:17:11

Yeah, which I do love. And that's um this is another quote that I love. This is more modern, like I said. There is nothing more admirable than when two people who see eye to eye keep house as a man and a wife. Which I do love that. That's a good one.

SPEAKER_08 2:17:32

Oh yeah. I um I wasn't able to look it up. I forgot to write that one down, but I love the moment where it talks about Athena holding back the night so Odysseus and and uh oh yeah, Penelope could have the night longer together and be able to have that because he, you know, come come the morning, he had to go back and start like doing the things he needed to, but like hold back the night so they could spend longer together and tell talk and taught tell their stories and and just catch up. It was like, oh, it was so special. What a wing man Athena is, yeah, right.

SPEAKER_03 2:18:12

She's not looking to get in O Dizzy's bed, she's just helping him out.

SPEAKER_08 2:18:16

What a bro.

SPEAKER_03 2:18:16

What a bro. She's a bro. She does disguise herself as a man one of those times.

SPEAKER_04 2:18:23

Yep. Unfortunately, I can't see Zendaya being a cool bro like that. Nah. Zendaya.

SPEAKER_08 2:18:31

Was that you saying you have Zendaya fatigue? I do have Zendaya fatigue.

SPEAKER_09 2:18:37

Why is she in everything?

SPEAKER_08 2:18:40

Her and Tom Holland.

SPEAKER_09 2:18:42

Oh my gosh.

unknown 2:18:42

Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 2:18:43

Uh yeah, Tom Holland is a little overrated. He's okay. He's he's good as Spider-Man.

SPEAKER_04 2:18:48

He's a little more charming. Yeah. And he's uh he's certainly, you know, looks young. So he's able to play a lot of these younger people roles. Yep. Anyways. Yeah, I mean, not much happens after that. I think there's there's people that are looking for revenge that want to come and kill Odysseus because they killed this is kind of where the story probably could end with him being with Penelope, but it's like kept going.

SPEAKER_03 2:19:17

There could have been a third part if in the Library of Alexandria, but it's good. Alexander's library. Yeah. Alexander's library.

SPEAKER_04 2:19:26

Alexander the Great. Alexander the Great Library.

SPEAKER_07 2:19:31

He wasn't conquering the world. He was sorting books.

SPEAKER_08 2:19:34

But can't a man just have an organized shelf?

SPEAKER_04 2:19:38

Anyways. So yeah. Athena. This is where Athena just steps in and puts her foot down. She's like, nope, we're not doing this no more. Go home. We're done. And then she ends it. And then that's the story.

SPEAKER_03 2:19:53

That is the story. A myth of epic proportions with great odds that are overcome with trickery that is just so satisfying to see come into action. And this is a myth that has inspired scores and scores of our favorite writers. I know Tolkien was inspired by these kind of mythologies, and it influenced him to make his own myths. C.S. Lewis, probably Orson Scott Card, since his Alvin Maker series is America's mythos for him. Oh, yeah. So there's just so many people inspired by the story, and I think this is a good time for us to rate it to show what respect we have for the Odyssey in our ratings, which I guess I'll start. Uh seeing how I'm I'm kind of a simpleton, so that the language kind of did hold me off. I wouldn't say it was the most enjoyable read at first, but it gets better with time. And as you adjust yourself and as you make yourself more knowledgeable in the style, it it and I have to I have to give it props for being such a foundational piece of work that has lasted for thousands of years. So it's gotta be at least a seven out of ten.

SPEAKER_07 2:21:10

Cool, fair for sure. Yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_04 2:21:13

For me, um having to read it as a whole, you know, this is a book that I will probably never revisit, but the story is sitting with me in a way that I am like inspired in a lot of different ways to write my own mythic or you know, mythic story. Um it hit me in the fills with the whole reuniting with his family, the love story. I just love the second half so much. Um but yeah, like Derek said, it is a it is a difficult read. It's a difficult book to stay, you know, absorbed in. It's easy to wander. For that, I think, yeah, it's probably I would rate it probably like a 7.1. But it's cool. Great story. Cool. But you love your decimal points.

SPEAKER_07 2:22:20

You you have to be specific, man. He's just a little higher than you. Seven to it, seven twenty. There's a lot of great air.

SPEAKER_00 2:22:28

I didn't get one up. I got point one up.

SPEAKER_04 2:22:32

Yeah, seven, that's a rookie score, Derek.

SPEAKER_03 2:22:35

So no, seven out of ten means good. Six out of ten mean means five. Five out of ten is okay. It's good, it's good.

SPEAKER_04 2:22:45

Yeah. But anyways, what do you think, Jeff?

SPEAKER_08 2:22:48

What do I think? All right. Uh my uh it'll be interesting. Um, what you guys think of what I'm doing. But for this translation, I'm gonna give it a six. Um, just it was verbose and it was lengthy, and I've and especially this version with Ian McKill. McKillen? Yes, McClellan. McClellan. McClellan, McClellan, McClellan. Uh, with him reading, I was not a fan. All the S's felt like ringing like babbles in my ears.

SPEAKER_07 2:23:19

Was he was he a little whistly too?

SPEAKER_04 2:23:22

Extremely whistly. Unfortunately, I love him. Not Ian McClellan. He should not be reading a book.

SPEAKER_13 2:23:29

Oh, and the worst part about this audiobook, the music between books.

SPEAKER_00 2:23:36

Yeah, between just like the Omega Man, where I'm like, oh my gosh, who was in charge of this? Yes.

SPEAKER_04 2:23:46

Who was experimenting with their instruments this weekend? But it has such such like uh almost nostalgic sound, you know?

SPEAKER_08 2:23:56

Not very fitting, but yeah. I I would give it a six. I I did enjoy it, and and it is there's all so many great things of it, and it is poetic. If that's what you're looking for to get out of the the Odyssey, it is great to get into there, get into this story, especially with this translation, and have that kind of exposed to you. The the YouTube video I sent, um, it's just it's basically like an abridged version. That was absolutely fantastic. I'd honestly give that like a seven or an eight, just because it condensed the story, but still made it so enjoyable. And the narrator for that one was absolutely fantastic.

SPEAKER_04 2:24:33

He did an incredible job, especially as Cyclops voice. Yes, oh yeah. You should we give them a shout out?

SPEAKER_08 2:24:40

Yeah, we'll we'll have to see if we can link it or something, but um, yeah, that I would rank a lot higher because again, the the Odyssey is very flexible, and is as long as you can give the story justice. I I don't necessarily think you need so much of the poetics, but deep dive history.

SPEAKER_03 2:25:01

They are there for a reason, for sure. Deep dive history and the lifeguide, yep, the odyssey, the whole story, the whole story. It's about four hours long, but keep in mind the audiobook was over 13 hours long.

SPEAKER_04 2:25:12

Yes, deep dive history podcast and the life guide.

SPEAKER_08 2:25:16

So check it out, check it out. Yep, six out of ten for me for the one we read, but overall, I think the the Odyssey is extremely important.

SPEAKER_03 2:25:26

I'd give it a I'd give it a in uh as far as when it comes to importance in literature, yeah. I'd probably give it like an eight out of ten. You know, just the fact of monsters and trying to outwit them and communing with deities and the divine and you know, trying to get to what's most important, those you love, yeah, and having a dog that's faithful to you.

SPEAKER_08 2:25:49

You're like, oh, oh wonderful stuff. Oh, yeah, fantastic. Unless you think it's uh an actually a story about a guy just being late and making up a whole bunch of BS to you know make his wife happy.

SPEAKER_04 2:26:05

There's a lot of different speculations you can go.

SPEAKER_08 2:26:08

I don't like to think of it that way, but you know, it crosses the mind.

SPEAKER_04 2:26:12

But it's kind of funny. So yeah, we um we're gonna release this, I think, on the same day the movie comes out, or um when does the movie come out? Christopher Nolan 17th? Oh, so maybe a couple days before. So, anyways, what are you guys you guys have hope for the movie? You think it's gonna be good?

SPEAKER_03 2:26:36

Oh man. Man, the fact that it's Christopher Nolan, he's one of the few directors I have goodwill to, even though some of his movies I'm like The Dark Knight Rises, I was like not a big fan of. But you know, he did the Dark Knight, he did Interstellar. Man, I watched Interstellar this last weekend. I was oh yeah, I was so I was feeling the Christopher Nolan. Right? Yeah, and the fact that he was building his own ship, like a real ship for this movie. Like that that's so cool. That is so CRISPR Nolan. This is the same guy who bought acres of cornfield for just to drive through and to burn. And so that's hopeful, but the casting choices.

SPEAKER_08 2:27:30

For me, it just feels like there's a hat of like all the names. You have like Tom Holland, Chris Pratt, Zendaya, Zendaya, whatever it is. And and then you know, they just hand it to the director and like, here, you gotta pick 10. Okay.

SPEAKER_03 2:27:44

It's one of those Chris Pratt. It's one of those memes that you see all over the internet that has like the the three by three chart of all these people. It's like, all right, you have fifty dollars, but so who what team you building? You know, you have one column as one dollar, another column is five dollars, and another column is fifteen dollars. Honestly, yeah, it's how much actors are paid nowadays.

SPEAKER_13 2:28:04

So it's all those memes and be like, that's how I'm gonna make my sales pitch every time it's gonna work.

SPEAKER_04 2:28:11

One thing I I um was taught about in my film studies class, directors often use reuse um actors in their movies. Obviously, Matt D. Like Martin Scorsese uses you know, Joe Pesci, uh Leonardo DiCaprio in all his movies, and um Wes Anderson with Bill Murray. Yeah, Wes Anderson, and I think he has Willem Defoe in a few of his.

SPEAKER_08 2:28:36

Yeah, Willem Defoe, Owen Wilson, yeah.

SPEAKER_04 2:28:38

Yeah, and Chris Renel has used Ann Hathaway before. He's he's used Matt Damon before.

SPEAKER_08 2:28:45

Where's Chris Pratt?

SPEAKER_04 2:28:46

Or not Chris Pratt.

SPEAKER_10 2:28:48

Christian Bale, where's Christian Bale?

SPEAKER_03 2:28:50

Yeah, Christian Bale would be. Yeah, I think he would have done great.

SPEAKER_04 2:28:54

Yeah, he's used um Edward. What's his name? Robert Pattinson. I was gonna say scissor hands, but yeah.

SPEAKER_01 2:29:03

No Robert Pattinson.

SPEAKER_04 2:29:05

And then, yeah, I do think there is a lot of influence outside that's like, oh, you know who's like the biggest name in Hollywood right now? Producers who have money. Yeah, you have to use her.

SPEAKER_03 2:29:17

I don't know what they're trying to push. I don't know what they see in her that everyone goes crazy for, but please stop pushing her, Hollywood. It's not gonna work. Yeah.

SPEAKER_08 2:29:29

Well, it gets people talking too.

SPEAKER_03 2:29:32

Yeah, there's no such thing as bad press, I guess.

SPEAKER_04 2:29:35

Yeah, seeing that, like, I don't think like um another controversial one that's been going around is Helen. Is it Helena? Yeah, Helena of Troy. Helena of Troy. Helena, Helena. Um, you know, she's really not in the story all that much.

SPEAKER_08 2:29:53

So I'm really not basically just the part where Telemachus goes to visit uh King Melanena Melanaus, yeah, and they just chat, and he's like, Oh dang, she's pretty, and that's it.

SPEAKER_04 2:30:04

Yeah, no, and but there I think there's some of the Iliad. Obviously, there's been some in the trailer, like the Trojan horse. So there's there's parts of that in it, but I don't think there's a lot.

SPEAKER_03 2:30:16

Well, what are your guys' thoughts on Elliot Page?

SPEAKER_04 2:30:19

Um there's no like specification, but I think it's been confirmed that she's not Achilles or whatever.

SPEAKER_03 2:30:28

I don't know what to say. She or he.

SPEAKER_08 2:30:29

I'd I maybe like a dead version of Achilles, I could see that.

SPEAKER_03 2:30:33

Well, Achilles, like but I think I think he got cast as something else, but still, I know he's been doing boxing and got he could probably beat my butt up, but they're five foot one, and we're gonna be showing battlefields of Trojan soldiers and Greek soldiers. Like, you expect me to believe that's the kind of person who's gonna be slaying scores of soldiers? No, no, no, yeah, no, no. I I hate to be so critical, but no, dude. No, just look at Troy with Brad Pitt. Like, that was believable. Oh, yeah.

SPEAKER_08 2:31:13

I mean, at least Tom Cruise.

SPEAKER_09 2:31:15

I mean, sure, you're sure, but I think it's been confirmed that you need to get Tom Cruise in a small space where everyone's trying to get standing on his box. Yeah, he has to like keep hitting it on all the walls.

SPEAKER_03 2:31:29

Like in uh what what movie is that? Is that Reacher or no?

SPEAKER_04 2:31:33

Oh yeah, Reacher Bathroom that was a great scene. But anyways, I think it's confirmed that Paige isn't Achilles. Okay, but they are in the movie, yeah. Yeah, no, I don't know if Achilles is still relevant. I think it's just someone in she's someone in the underworld or something like that. I don't know.

SPEAKER_08 2:31:55

One of the corpses.

SPEAKER_03 2:31:59

Yeah, anyways. Well, if that's the case, I hope I get to see the the Cerberus be devouring that corpse. That would be that would be awesome. Sodus fire.

SPEAKER_08 2:32:09

Uh yeah, I I have Hollywood fatigue. I honestly have care could care less about pretty much any of this, and I I really think it kind of needs to get to the point where people just stop caring because these people think they have way too much clout, and people give them too much clout. And it's like these are just people, and it's great when an actor can have some humility, but even then, like when you have actors who appear fairly humble, like Chris Pratt and Jack Black and Keanu Reeves, and then but they still weigh in on crap and and all the nonsense going on in the world, and you're like, all right, be quiet and just act. Like well, I I keep saying it.

SPEAKER_03 2:32:54

We the common folk need to just stop giving them attention. Like, how great would it be if they made a Twitter post and they only got like 13 likes? I would love to see their reaction.

SPEAKER_08 2:33:04

We need to we need to stop holding on pedestals, yes, we need to stop just admiring anything they do.

SPEAKER_03 2:33:11

There, they put their pants on two one leg at a time, guys, just like all of us. Yep.

SPEAKER_04 2:33:16

Well, yeah, that was our second hot take for the day, so anyways, we could go on about that, but yeah, that was the honesty, folks. Um it's my pick. Yeah, what's our next book? So I kind of I think you guys kind of knew this would be my next pick. Um I've been I've been reading this series. I finished book four and I've been enjoying it. Um I don't want to give too much away. But I don't want I don't want to influence your opinion on it. Um so we'll have have to I'll keep my turn my mouth shut and we'll talk about the next time but I'm gonna Sorry sorry dude what is the guy what is it what is it oh it's a what is it you know who voice acted Rex uh it's it's the same guy as uh Inconceivable right yeah Wallacean yeah Wallacean oh my gosh dude it's I can't look at Rex the same way I gotta say this book has so much hype there is so much hype against it by now I think I know I think I know what it is let's all say it together one on the counter one two three dungeon crawler carl what did you say Jeff I I knew it was done what did you call it he's trying to be pointing he said interstellar I'm trying to be wise so yeah we're gonna do dungeon crawler Carl um I will say if um if you have kids do not let them read this you know that is my opinion it is vulgar it is violent and it is is raunchy yeah so um which we've we've kind of talked about that that you know I'm sure we'll get into it next time but yeah we're gonna do Dungeon Crawler Carl so yeah um they just you know made a deal Seth McFarland is gonna be making a TV series oh boy Dungeon Crawler Carl on Peacock so okay we're getting ahead of it but I think Peacock's got it all right now they got the new Avatar series going on too yeah have you guys read any um lit RPG books this will be kind of your first experience yep I'm excited for that and I'm excited for our writing challenge so what our writing challenge for next time is gonna be is going to be a lit RPG version of whatever game you want whatever character you want but it has to involve an item discovery a level up and a boss fight oh okay you have that written down somewhere I can send it to you perfect I forgot what you said so you'll re read the book and you'll kind of understand what lit RPG kind of means you're basically just writing like a a video game a narrated version of Dungeons and Dragons a small yeah you're narrating like as a character going through a video game so that'll help you kind of get a better reference but yeah it needs to involve an item discovery a level up and a boss fight doesn't have to be in any particular order I think it's gonna be really fun I'm excited about it yeah but that sounds funny anyways also join us for our uh our writing challenge this time we're gonna post it it's a it's our own Greek mythology or mythological tale Greek it's just a myth oh okay yeah so essentially I misunderstood the assignment they don't have to be Greek it could just be a works where you're using deities to explain either natural phenomenon or the reason why things be or to explore a a question in life basically the reason why mythology existed in the first place time to explain the unexplainable through magic monsters and gods.

SPEAKER_03 2:37:48

Perfect join us for that yep hope to see you there. You betcha yep all right join us but I don't many I don't have any quotes uh I have a quote oh wait I do have a quote yeah I do got a quote all right but wait how do we do this again is it where I say until next time and then we each say a quote and then I say keep reading you say keep writing we'll say the quote and then say until next time.

SPEAKER_04 2:38:18

Okay okay well for me it's nobody is blinding me okay we'll go home then I'm gonna go with my favorite version of the Odyssey Wishbone ooh big man with the sword I'm gonna go with if the gods wish you to suffer there's nothing to be done but endure it was good that was good well this is this has been us until next time keep reading keep writing and stay rascally catch later