Have You Seen?! The Movie Podcast

Annie; Hard Knock Takes On A Soft-Hearted Classic

• Roll Credits Studios • Season 1 • Episode 14

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A comic-strip orphan, a Broadway juggernaut, and an 80s movie that went bigger than big—Annie gives us plenty to love and plenty to question. We dive straight into the film’s strange alchemy: John Huston’s gritty instincts guiding a glossy musical, an orchestra that shakes the walls, and a story that dares to make radical optimism its engine. From the grimy rhythm of It’s The Hard Knock Life to the unabashed uplift of Tomorrow, we unpack why these songs still punch, where the dubbing deflates the magic, and how music functions as dialogue in a world painted with showbiz primary colors.

Casting is the film’s secret weapon. Carol Burnett’s Miss Hannigan wobbles between hilarious and unsettling, turning physical comedy into character study. Albert Finney’s Daddy Warbucks commands a room and then quietly learns to soften it. Tim Curry and Bernadette Peters turn Easy Street into a master class in movement and mischief. We bring the receipts: the reshot Easy Street sequence, the choice to swap Broadway’s Christmas ending for a Fourth of July blowout, and the decision to pull Punjab and Asp from the comic—choices that add texture but raise modern representation questions.

We also track the contrasts that make Annie tick: orphanage grit to marble-palace gleam, one-week PR stunt to real connection, jaded adulthood to a kid who wins by being relentlessly kind. Does it hold up? The melodies do, the heart does, and the scale still impresses, even as certain portrayals and production quirks show their age. We sketch the blueprint for a period-faithful remake that restores key songs, sharpens cultural framing, and casts performers with the same undeniable presence that made the 1982 version iconic.

If you love movie musicals, Broadway history, or the way nostalgia shapes taste, this one’s for you. Hit play, then tell us: stage musical at heart, or a cinematic spectacle that still earns its spotlight? Subscribe, share with a friend, and leave a quick review to help more listeners find the show.

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Dylan:

Okay, but how many orphans is too many orphans in one mansion?

Joe:

Hmm. Well, I don't know. If you're Miss Hannigan, not too many. This week we're tackling one of the biggest movie musicals of the 80s. And while I grew up knowing every lyric, Dylan is watching Annie for the first time. Sunshine, Showstoppers, and a very aggressive optimism are headed our way.

Dylan:

This week's movie, Annie, uh 1982, is rated PG for mild language, thematic elements, and cartoonish peril.

Joe:

Annie was released in 1982 during a major movie musical revival. It's directed by John Houston, known more for gritty dramas than musicals. There was a massive budget and Hughes uh huge expectations for this movie. Uh it was based on a beloved Broadway musical, but it started out as a comic strip, just like Charlie Brown or any of those. Yeah. Huh. So it's kind of funny because a lot of comic strips, uh, if you look back, take the way of animation. Yeah. Or some of them take the way of a Broadway show. Right. Like another one maybe we can cover sometime is Popeye, which also was a cartoon, but this was a this was definitely a comic strip that went straight to Broadway.

Dylan:

Oh, that's interesting. All right. For a quick rundown here, an optimistic orphan captures the heart of a billionaire while trying to find her real parents with songs, schemes, and big emotions along the way. Her orphans are boys. That's funny. Um I would say, like, overall, it's a decent movie. Um it definitely was over the top with the the sets and the um on just like the whole scale of the whole thing. Yeah. Um definitely spared no expense on that. And they did not spare any expense. Yeah. Um, but man, like the way that they've weaved in all of the actual musical numbers though. Um it's funny because like you watch sitting there watching it, you just know one is coming.

Joe:

Yeah, yeah, yeah. Exactly. Yeah, that's the thing about musicals, kind of like we were talking about with uh um I I think White Christmas has you know a good kind of a good like you kind of they're they're doing a production, so it's not as forced, right? You know, um maybe the dancing one was, but like, but yeah, here it's like you're getting into uh coming from Broadway that the essentially the music part is the dialogue. Right, right.

Dylan:

So I thought it was uh amusing about just how aggressively optimistic Annie is. Oh yeah, yeah, she's awesome.

Joe:

We we all need that kind of optimism. Yeah. I I was just you know, just watching it like she goes in the back alley to get a dog and she scraps with two boys or five boys or something like that. It's like, uh, in reality, I don't know that right.

Dylan:

How convenient that we're gonna come at her wall one time, right? Exactly one at a yeah, and that was what would that be? How convenient that we're we're gonna come after her one at a time.

Joe:

Yeah, and this was before she received her training by Poonjab.

Dylan:

Yeah. Man, I thought that was uh interesting take on that.

Joe:

What is that? On Poonjab. Poonjab and um I forgot his name. I'll think of it. Asp, I think, was the other uh uh bodyguard. Yeah. Yeah.

Dylan:

Um because with Poonjob, like there were times where he was doing like the um what's it called?

Joe:

Like magical or mystical.

Dylan:

Yeah, yeah. Um like the the you know magic stuff. Uh-huh. And then um he's like also quoting like Buddha. Right.

SPEAKER_00:

Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.

Joe:

Yeah, he was a he was a varying character. Yes, yeah.

Dylan:

But yeah. So watching watching back though, like how did you feel all for like the nostalgia factor of it though?

Joe:

Well, I think I watch it at least once a year. Yeah. And I think last year I started watching the the remake, and um, and so yeah, I for me as it which remake? Oh, the I think it was 99, okay, which was like an official Disney one, yeah. It was made for TV. Um that one is more truer to the Broadway. Is it? Yeah, and it feels more static, um, as opposed to like you're on a stage as opposed to having sets and being reality. Um but for nostalgic for me, yeah, it it is nostalgic because for me growing up, I watched it a lot. Yeah. Uh as a kid, I wore out the tape. Uh, I remember the day it was like I'm listening, and I don't know if it was tomorrow, but it was like and so I look at the stereo and it starts spitting out tape. It's just it just ate ate it. It was like done. It's like, dude, I'm not playing this anymore. Yeah. So that was one of my biggest memories, and I think like as a kid, uh, you know, depending on when I was listening to it, I mean it came out in '82, so it's like two or three. And so, but I just remember like having a crush on Alien Quinn, and you know, just like the fire. Yeah.

Dylan:

So and so how do you feel like it it plays out as an adult?

unknown:

Man.

Dylan:

Is the optimism still there for you? It is.

Joe:

Uh it is. I think it's it's it makes it one of those optimistic things, uh optimistic movies where you can, you know, I mean that's that's what movies are for sometimes, you know, just to go and escape and yeah, have a good ending at the end. And right. Um, and so yeah, I think I think it is there. I think as an adult, um I just see things differently. Uh different, you know, just being like, oh, I want a kid like that, or I want to be daddy war bucks. Yeah. So well, you've already got the hair down.

Dylan:

Yeah, yeah. Um but yeah, um, Eileen Quinn plays Annie and it's so funny how they wrote that character because she she almost uses like the um what do you call it? The optimism. Wow. Um she she uses the optimism like pretty much as like her superpower, if you will. Yeah. Like so aggressively oppro opportunistic.

Joe:

Right. Yeah. No, and and they um I mean, she was a great actress, and she I mean you watch it for the time and for her age, and just how much of a star she was at that point. I mean, like, I think she only walked away with like a hundred thousand or something like that. Really? Yeah. Wow. Which like I mean, you you kind of it's kind of a give and take at that point because it's like, do I want the immediate amount or do I have a get an agent or something and go for residual? You know, right. Um, because on the on the front end, um the production cost was so huge that it took them a while to make up really so that she wouldn't have accrued much, right? But over time, you know, so it's just an interesting thing. And plus when you're uh a starving actor or actress that's auditioning amongst 8,000 other kids, right? Uh you don't even know if you're gonna make it, let alone you know.

Dylan:

Um was there any was there any other movies or like TV that she was in before this?

Joe:

Or no, this was so she actually was on the Broadway show of Annie as a understudy. Really? Yeah, and so she was part of like kind of the the B crew of people. Yeah, yeah. And she was like a background, you know, in the show, like one of the girls and all that. But um but yeah, she was an understudy, and and so it what had happened though, which was kind of cool, is that she had got a call from the Broadway production the day before she got the call for the movie. Oh, really? That she got the lead part in the Broadway production.

Dylan:

Oh wow.

Joe:

So she would have taken either way, yeah. So yeah, because she had been on the show long enough that she had kind of grown into it, and so they were like, oh, you know, she could totally take the next step. Right. And there's been some um, you know, lead actresses who have been over time who had played Annie in the production. Um Sarah Jessica Parker was one of them, um, who was in Hocus Pokes. Um the other one was Molly Ringwald, uh, was was in it. Um she was an eighties star. Okay. Um and so like there had been some some names who who had had that part, so it was like, you know, I would have loved to have seen her do more after this, but she really just kind of did some TV parts and yeah, yeah.

Dylan:

So the the gal who played Miss Hannigan, um super recognizable. I've seen like clips of her and stuff do it when she would do like the the stand-up comedy and stuff.

Joe:

Yeah, yeah. Yeah, I mean she so Carol Burnett, I mean, she was kind of the I mean I I really put her up there as like the I love Lucy taking taking taking the reins of the I Love Lucy comedy from the 70s on. Yeah. Because her show was just amazing. It was a variety show, it had multiple actors. Yeah. Um out of that uh out of that, so out of out of the Carol Burnett show came a spin-off called Mama's Family. Yeah. Um, and and so like she just she just had a huge influence and her just way of doing comedy and shtick and all her like ad libs, even in this movie, um, just mocking the kids and you know, it's just yeah, I love that you know we're sorry, Miss Hannigan.

SPEAKER_06:

I'm sorry, Miss Hannigan. It's just like we love you, Miss Hannigan. Shut up, yeah, exactly.

Dylan:

Yes, yeah, it was it was so good, and she played like the drunk really well too. Oh yeah, it wasn't over the top where it was like just goofy and comical. Yeah, it was like the actual, you know, stumbling and tripping around. And she did a great um would you call that like physical comedy? Yeah, yeah, okay.

Joe:

Yeah. Yeah, that that's one thing about her that she does it so subtly that like you don't realize at first that she is supposed to be drunk. You just think she's kind of goofy. Yeah. And then you realize she's holding a bottle the whole time. It's like, oh just drinking out of the base. Like, right.

Dylan:

That was so good. I was wondering if that was if that was scripted or if that was just her like ad-living it. Yeah. Because I could totally see it being like, oh, there's water. I mean, I'm just gonna drink out of that. Yeah. Yeah. Um, I mean, I saw like the bottle like right away. Uh-huh. So I was like, oh yeah, she's you know, she's supposed to be drunk. She's lit. Lit. That's the new one.

Joe:

Yeah, yeah, yeah. Yeah, that's the modern version. We're gonna bring an update to all the kids on their iPads.

Dylan:

Yeah, I don't think they would have iPads. Yeah. Um and then uh who else? Oh, Daddy Warbucks. Um he he man, he is just a powerhouse.

Joe:

Oh yeah, yeah, he is. I mean, that guy commands the room, and that that's the thing about how he he he portrayed this, you know. It's just he walks into a room and boom, he's like boom, boom, boom. Right, you know, like putting Demona Lisa in the bathroom.

Dylan:

Wait a minute. There's something about her smile. Yes. Let's keep her. But yeah, um just man, like some people, you know, walk into a room and just automatically command the room. And he definitely has that, like it it didn't feel put on. Yeah, it felt very genuine and very in charge.

Joe:

Yeah, yeah. I mean, and then he literally commands the room. Right. Well, you know. Yeah. But it yeah, it just goes to show that's who Daddy Warbox is. Right.

Dylan:

I was trying to look ad-lib enough for you to find what you were looking for.

unknown:

Okay.

Joe:

So then there's Tim Curry as Rooster. Man. I I mean when you look at the cast and you just even if you just do a quick swipe on, you know, IMDB or something, yeah, uh, you realize the people that are there, you know, and and it's not the the character actors that are in it, you know, like Tim Curry, you know, his you know, I think his biggest role his two biggest roles. I mean, he has some big roles, but um was uh in Rocky Horror Picture Show. Yeah, that's yeah, that's I think that's what a lot of people know him as. Yep. Um for me it's Rooster. I knew him as Rooster first, really, because uh yeah, because I was so young I didn't know, and then um I didn't realize till later that he played it in the TV uh version. Oh yeah, yeah, he plays the clown and in the TV version, and uh and so he he was he was actually up for um the Joker in the Batman animated series at one point. Oh really? Yeah. Um there's like audition tapes on on YouTube and stuff where where he's doing the Joker. Yeah. Yeah, and it's a little more maniacal, like because you know it and you just kind of have that he has that voice. Right, you know, and uh yeah, but he's just had a great career. And yeah, for me, Rooster was it for me for knowing who he was.

Dylan:

Yeah, yeah. I definitely know him more from Rocky horror fiction shows. Um all of the orphans and stuff though, uh like I know that they're probably more background characters and stuff, but uh um man, they had a good punch to them though. Yeah. Um what was the one gal's name? Uh Peppermint? Uh-huh. Um I think it's pepper. Pepper? Yeah, yeah. Peppermint patty. Yeah. Charlie Brown last week. Yeah. Um but yeah, Pepper, she's just kind of she's a little fryer cracker. Oh yeah. Yeah.

Joe:

Yeah. I I always was scared of her as a kid. Yeah. But then you you felt like the you felt like in the orphanage there's like two bosses, or kind of three bosses, and Annie was her and Pepper was the other, and then you know, Titanic. And so amongst the orphans, like it was kind of a you know they had their own gangs going on, exactly.

Dylan:

Yeah. Um but yeah, the the whole chemistry between like Annie and Warbucks um was so funny because he wanted nothing to do with her, yeah. You know, was waiting to send her back. Uh-huh. And um she, you know, just took to him like a duck to water, yeah. And was like, no, we're friends now.

Joe:

Right. Yeah. Oh yeah. She, I mean, she just like killed him with kindness. Right. Okay. Uh, we'll keep you for a week. Okay, we'll keep you forever. Yeah.

Dylan:

So what was the whole thing of like just keeping her for a week and then sending her back?

Joe:

Well, I think the stunt was to to kind of get um media presence and like, you know, um get the media to see like Daddy Warbricks is reaching out to the poor and you know, kind of thing. And so initially it was kind of like a stunt and okay and it was like somebody else's idea. Right, you know, and then he's like, what?

SPEAKER_04:

He's like, why do I smell wet dog?

Dylan:

Yeah, exactly. Sir, that's your own breath. Yeah. Yes, sir. Um and then you have the the Hannigan and Rooster and Lily trio. Um they were they were funny too. Uh like Lily didn't I don't really feel like she drive drove the plot a whole lot. Yeah.

Joe:

Like I mean, other than being like Rooster's girl. Side piece. Yeah, side piece. Yeah, I was gonna I was gonna say sidekick and then I thought side piece, and I was like, I don't know. Um yeah, but she did like she was there to kind of drive a wedge between Rooster and Hannigan, and yeah, you know, and because you know obviously she, you know, Hannigan hated her on the right called her hotel.

Dylan:

You hotel. Um but yeah, it definitely seemed like Lily's character or place on Rooster's side, I guess. I don't know how you would have said it, but like um that was definitely like a revolving door from the way Hannigan acted, right? And it was like, oh look, here's another one. Uh-huh.

Joe:

Yeah, yeah. And like the funny thing is that um Bernadette Peters was in the jerk and some other movies, but she had been dating um Steve Martin, and he got offered the part of Rooster. Oh, really? But they had just broken up and he didn't want to go through that. Yeah. So he decided not to take the take the part. That's I mean, that's understandable. Yeah, understandable. Prolong the the hurt, yeah. Yeah. Yeah, I think I think all the other um kind of minor actors are you know just like one of the one of the big ones for me is Edward Edward Herman. Um he ended up like you know, in what was it, the 90s or 2000s, he ended up being in Gilmore Girls, so a lot of people know him as the dad on Gilmore Girls. Okay. But he had played um FDR in multiple different other movies and and things. Oh, yeah.

Dylan:

Like so he was just like Oh, I didn't realize it was the same guy.

Joe:

Yeah, yeah, yeah. He's pretty much so. But and so he's just done a lot of cool things. Um and and one of the ones, you know, his last name is Herman. He played Herman Munster in like a retake of of the Munsters. Okay. Um, great actor. Um, one of the with the uh cast, I mean, there's a lot of little um lot of actresses who became in bigger parts and stuff, but one of the ones that sticks out to me is in the 80s there was um a pop star named Martika, and uh she came out with a song called Toy Soldiers, and she's actually one of the girls in the in the line, and she's not even one of like the the leads, she's just kind of back in there. Oh funny, and then she went on to like kids incorporated, and then from that became a pop star. Like Fergie was part of Kids Incorporated, and she became a pop star. So it's like which route should we take? Right, you know, got options, yeah. So so yeah, the music is by Charles Strauss and lyrics by Martin Charnin or Carnin. Um I put on the top, maybe. Um that song usually makes me cry. Yeah, it does. Um, and yeah, as I grow older, um, because if you listen to the lyrics, it's all the all the girls sing it at different times. Yeah, but they're ex they're dreaming and explaining about um the parent that they might have someday and what they're doing right now.

SPEAKER_04:

Yeah.

Joe:

And so like um yeah, so it really hits me with like maybe she's playing piano, maybe he's adjusting his tie. Yeah, you know. Um so there's just like you you listen to those lyrics and you're like, oh, you know, you're thinking about especially kids who um who want to be adopted, you know, and uh and and parents who want to have kids and all that.

Dylan:

So yeah, that's well and like starting starting off that song, it's Annie was singing about what her parents would have been doing without her pretty much. Right. Without her around, yeah, like you know, oh right to the heart immediately. Yeah, exactly.

Joe:

Um I guess they cut the the length of it, and I know that from the remake because it's a lot longer. Yeah. And to me it ha it's more effective in in that, but uh they shortened it, which is probably good because the waterworks shouldn't start at the beginning of a movie. Right. You gotta be able to see the screen without it getting blurry, yeah, exactly.

Dylan:

But yeah, uh, like one of my favorites uh out of the whole thing is hard knock life. Yeah. Um I I have to say, like, you know, we would sing that hard knock life growing up, whatever. But then like hanging out with my friends and stuff, um, we would all listen to music together and just talking chit-chat and stuff. Yeah. And then they would start complaining about something. So I just like snuck it in there because it, you know, it builds as it starts up. Uh-huh. And so like you don't even notice it at first. Yeah. And then like so many times they would like come to like a pause and whatever, and it comes hard knock live.

Joe:

Hard knock live. Right.

Dylan:

Yeah.

Joe:

Yeah. There was some kind of remake, or they used it, somebody sampled it in some like hip-hop song or something like that. Oh, really? Yeah. And I feel like a lot of people know it from that, but yeah, it's it's it's pretty, it's pretty funny. It's a it's a good song. It's yeah. That and tomorrow are probably the ones that most people know. Yeah. Oh yeah.

Dylan:

Yeah, because even if you've never seen it or watched it, like I still grew, you know, had friends growing up that were like theater kids. Yeah. Uh yeah, or sing, you know, belting out tomorrow. Yeah.

Joe:

You know, yeah, yeah, exactly. Yeah. Yeah. Tomorrow. Um, I love that I love that uh song, and you know, we quote me and my wife will quote it every once in a while, but my favorite part is solo for the president. When I think of a day, that's great, you know. And it kind of talks, right? Very presidential. Right.

Dylan:

Um, and then you're never fully dressed without a smile. Yeah. So for in the in the Broadway show, does Annie sing that, or is it the other guy?

Joe:

I think it's the same. Okay.

Dylan:

Same setup with the Broadway show, yeah. Gotcha.

Joe:

Yeah.

Dylan:

Because I feel like I've heard that song before, but like with Annie singing it.

Joe:

Oh, interesting.

Dylan:

Yeah. So I don't know. Maybe I'm just misremembering it. But I mean, like watching it, I was like, I was like, oh, interesting. Yeah. Like that's different than you know what I was thinking.

Joe:

Uh-huh. Yeah. No, it's it's great because like, I mean, me and my brother used to sit in front of the TV and pretend we were KISS or, you know, like some rock band. Right. And so you just get that kid feeling of like, you know, listening to the radio and pretending you're that you're performing. Yeah, that you're performing and you know. So just cool. I mean, things that you have to pass the time with when you're an orphan, right?

Dylan:

Yeah. Um something that I noticed too with like the songs and music and stuff is that they still had like the full orchestra for it. It wasn't like, okay, we're gonna take this song and adapt it for you know the big screen. It's okay, we're gonna take this song and bump it up to ten and blow out the blow out the speakers.

Joe:

And yeah. I I think that's the thing with the sight and the sound of all of it. It's just it's big. Yeah. Right. It's yeah. Um yeah, so easy street, uh, you know, again, liking uh Tim Curry and and you know, knowing him as Rooster, like that was that was always like my song that I liked, you know. He just has this like this way about him that you know he's just this like um He's very suave. Very suave, but he he's very much a um Oh trying to think of the word Slimy. Slimey when you boost somebody's ego to get something oh um kiss ass. Con artist. Okay con artist con artist is um you know, is like his his MO, you know? Yeah and even going in and sneaking in um to to see his sister, like they they already have a plan, right, you know, and so she gets distracted while Rooster gets to the purse and takes money and he's like not even a dime or whatever, not even a nickel, or um but yeah, he's just such a car and artist. And then that that song Easy Street. It was um it was funny because they refilmed that and they put they originally had the idea of doing that song on the street and having all these extras, and like as as the song built up, more you know, people would come out into the street and start, you know, dancing and things like that. And they like filmed the whole thing, which I wish was a deleted scene at some point, like Criterion. If you want to re-release this movie, um please add deleted scenes and extras because I could find very limited extras about this movie. Really? Yeah. Um, so they filmed this whole thing and then they saw it, they previewed it, they looked at it, and they're like, we need to make it smaller, and so then they refilmed it in the office so that they were just amongst themselves talking about their plan and stuff. Gotcha, yeah, interesting. And uh, one of the things that is crazy is so Bernonette Peter was was a Broadway actress as well.

Dylan:

Yeah.

Joe:

And so there's this point where they're doing all these little like stunts in the in the Easy Street part, and you know, like sliding down banisters, yeah, sliding down banisters, doing the um, you know, I I think they did like a Texas switch with him doing the jumps and stuff. Yeah, um he because he's like in in in the he's on screen and then off screen and then like he's flipping around, right? You know, right? Um maybe, maybe he's just that that's he did that, you know. I'd like to think that. But when they're coming off the desk, Bernadette Peters has her legs on two chairs, and then Rooster gets right underneath, and she just does these splits. I'm like, whoa, that's just like control, you know. Yeah, like I just yeah, yeah. So there's just a lot in that that little you know part. And uh another like kind of thing about that is I guess Kel Burnett got surgery uh between so they had filmed the whole movie, yeah, they wrapped it, and then they decided to redo Easy Street, yeah. So they called all the actors back, so the one had to come from LA and New York, and you know, so then between the point of when they wrapped and they refilmed, Carol Burnett had surgery on her chin. And so when she walks in, she has one chin, and when she walks out of the, you know, she goes into the closet to get all the boxes and stuff. Yeah. So when she walks in, she has one chin, and when she comes out, she has another. Really?

Dylan:

Oh, that's so funny. I didn't even notice.

Joe:

Yeah, I know. I didn't notice either. Like it's hard to tell, yeah, but she yeah. It's there, it's there, or not there, yeah. Yeah, but um, and then there was a a bunch of songs um that they they added, so they were they were sort of like we have Albert Finney and Carol Burnett in this movie, and they're not they don't have any lines together. We need to put them together, yeah. And so the the whole like plot of him going to sign the thing, they wrote that in and then they wrote a new song so that they could put together in the same scene because they're like, we gotta, you know, like but again, you have Bernadette Peters, Tim Curry, and Carol Burnett who are all like just you know playing off of each other, and you know, it's just so great. But yeah, so they had to write an extra an extra like I think it was like five songs or something they added for just different purposes, yeah. Um yeah, they definitely use the the songs to drive the character and story and stuff, yeah, yeah, and you know you have your Broadway show and you have a comic strip to refer to. Right. It's like what do you do? One of the things with the with with doing that is they try to include extra characters. So Punjab and Asp weren't in the Broadway show.

Dylan:

Okay.

Joe:

And they decided because they were in the comic and they were important that they wanted to put them in there.

Dylan:

Yeah.

Joe:

Yeah. So it's like the so they wrote their parts in and yeah, you know.

Dylan:

That's cool. Yeah, watching the the movie, um it's really interesting to see how they go from the the uh gritty and and gross uh orphanage into like the the big how uh mansion, how like clean and sparkly everything is.

Joe:

Yeah. You know, it's funny, I was thinking. When they're uh when they're cleaning the bathrooms. Yeah. I'm like, you would think that this orphanage would look as good as the mansion with them cleaning all the time.

Dylan:

Yeah, they probably they probably aren't uh I don't think Miss Hannigan is the one to uh buy much soap. Right. I think she would use it pretty sparingly.

SPEAKER_00:

Yeah, exactly.

Joe:

But yeah, it is a huge com comparison and and contrast between like you know, especially when Annie first walks into the mansion and they just do this pan of like what it's kind of like from her point of view, right? You know, and they show everything. It's like I mean, all the the people cleaning and and they just look tiny. Yeah. Yeah. And then I think the other contrast too that I kind of picked up on was that when she walks in and they're like, you know, so what do you want to do first? And she's like, well, I'll do the windows and then the floors in case I drip. Yeah, exactly. And I was like, I don't think that would be unheard of at that time to have child labor, you know.

Dylan:

Because it's set in the 20s, right?

Joe:

Yeah, 1920s, yeah. It's depression era, and yeah, yeah, and and you can see a lot of those subtle things of people getting by because like even um Hanigan trying to pick up on Mr. Bundles, like she almost like he's not like exactly a stud. Right. And I mean, you know, Carol Burnett is beautiful, but I don't know that Miss Hannigan is necessarily all that either, but yeah, she probably sees him as like a way out.

Dylan:

Right, you know, like you have a full-time job. Exactly.

Joe:

Like I'd rather have that than this, right? You know, all the little girls.

Dylan:

I was surprised how long through the movie it was before Annie got her red dress, though. Oh yeah, the signature right, because like I feel like anytime you see any sort of um like artwork or picture of you know Annie. Yeah, you know, whichever form, yeah, um she's always wearing the the red dress with the white trim.

Joe:

Yeah, yeah. I'm pretty sure Christopher Nolan took the took the lead on that with Batman Begins. Oh no, I was kidding. I was I was like I was like, explain that. If you think about it, Batman Begins. Um he he did do that purposely, but not probably from Annie, but he he purposely made it so that the the suit wouldn't come out till towards the end. Yeah. Yeah. And so it's like with this, it's kind of the same thing because it's such a backstory to who she is and how she got there that um you know she has to be a little orphan before she becomes, you know, because it's little orphan annie, so um they have to give some of that for sure. Although I haven't seen personally the you know, in the in the comic strips of her being that way. I've just always known her as yeah, you know, mostly in black and white, though, but yeah, she's their signature red. There's also they do this in the remake, but there is a a change to her hair. Like, you know, it's yeah at first with this one at first it's kind of ratty, ratty, yeah. But it's you know, it's ratty and it's not kept, and obviously, you know, Hannigan's not gonna sit around and brush everybody's hair. Right, you know. Um as surprising as this sounds, yeah, yeah, yeah. I'm shocked. Um and so her right, once she gets into that change mode, then her hair changes, it's all being kept and and all that.

Dylan:

She has somebody to take care of herself.

Joe:

Right, yeah. So it's subtle, but it's it's it's good because you see that. And then yeah, I think like one of the big t things too about it is there's there's a lot of Old movies. Um, I think I think they're called the Dead End Kids, but they were they they were a group of kids that were with James Cagney. Okay. And the girls in this kind of remind me of that, where they kind of they're kind of like this little gang, this little group kind of thing. And so there's a lot of little iconic things like that that throw back to old time uh cinema, you know, and so like the way uh Albert Finney talks, um he really adapted that from the from the the accent that the director had. Yeah. He took that from him and kind of made it his own. So like because he couldn't he didn't really have like direction, you know, you're coming off of a comic book or a comic strip, right? So you didn't really have a direction on how this person's gonna talk. So right, and then uh and then you just have that those old time looking like Bernadette Peters looks like one of those old starlets from the twenties and you know, that kind of thing. And so there's just all these little subtle things in there to make it feel um the color, the coloring of the film and yeah, you know, the tone and yeah, but just all of the costume design design overall that they did was fantastic for it. Yeah, yeah. I mean Daddy Warbucks himself, like, I would love to dress like that. Yeah just on a regular basis. Yeah, just on a regular basis, just just you know, cleaning out the school I work at. People are like, dress for the job you want. Right exactly. Yeah, I think like there's there's a lot of changes from the you know, the Broadway show, yeah, from the show to the movie. Um and I think the biggest one for me was not knowing that it actually ended at Christmas. Oh so like because of the budget, and they had already like just the it was you know, right? It was already blown out of the water, yeah. The minute you see like Daddy Warbuck's house, it's like Rolls-Royce pulling up and all that, you know, it's just so they've already put a lot in, refilming things, yeah. Um, but they couldn't uh because they were shooting in New York in the summertime, they couldn't afford to, like, especially at the mansion, make all this snow and put all this together, so they decided to move it to Jul 4th of July. Okay, and so they're having this Fourth of July party rather than having a Christmas party, yeah. And and so Oh, I bet that place is beautiful for for Christmas though. Yeah, it would be awesome. Yeah, and fireworks, because fireworks are always good any time of year. Right. Yeah, and you know, you could see you could see that, but um yeah, so there's different scenes that are changed and songs that were taken out for you know making it shorter, yeah. But I I I I don't note notice as much the pace of it, the the and the length, um, because I I'm just used to just seeing it and watching it, and it's another one of those cable ones that's on and just sit down and pick it up.

Dylan:

So what do you have any favorite scenes that you can pick out of it? Hmm.

SPEAKER_06:

I gotta go bathroom.

Dylan:

Just any time anytime Carol Burnett was making fun of the girls, pretty much mocking.

Joe:

Um man. Oh, let me think. What just re-watching it when um just seeing Annie kick some butt, like I almost kind of wanted that more. Yeah. Um, because like you know, after she's trained by Poon Jab, like that could be a whole side quest. Yeah. Like, let's redo Annie, show some Poon Jab training, like go kill Bill on it. And like, but she could have she could have like roundhoused Rooster and gotten away, you know. Like I feel like that could have come into play, you know. Um that was always a scary scene for me as a kid. The kidnapping. Yeah, the kidnapping. Because it just got like it went from it just it goes from like happy and like, oh, this is like versus like like home alone, campy, um campy villains, right? To like serious, right?

SPEAKER_06:

Because like because like Hannigan's like, no, she she he's really gonna kill her, you know, and I'm like, oh, he is.

Dylan:

Like it's it's like ah and she's crying, and you know, it's so and I thought with the whole like kidnapping too, like Annie did not put up much of a struggle, yeah. Like really, yeah, like for her character, I just really could have felt like she could have done it more. Right. Um one of the scenes that really sticks out for me is definitely hard knock life, yeah. All the all the orphans dancing in the in the orphanage and stuff, and yeah, choreography and yeah, yeah.

Joe:

The cool thing is like when they're um they're on the beds doing the somersaults and stuff, and and they're doing, you know, they're just like throwing dishes and like, you know, like just all that stuff, yeah.

Dylan:

The whole pile of dishes right into the sink, right? Like every single one of those just broke.

SPEAKER_06:

Yeah. And he just comes in, bam!

unknown:

Yeah.

SPEAKER_06:

There I did the dishes.

Dylan:

Right. We don't have to eat on those anymore. Yeah, yeah.

Joe:

It's cold mush anyway. Yeah. Yeah, the the scene where um oh, I forget her name, but was it Pepper who tosses the mouse down uh uh Hannigan's? Oh yeah.

Dylan:

What are you hiding behind your back?

Joe:

Apparently that was a real dead rat.

Dylan:

Oh man.

Joe:

And it's so funny every time like they're just they just stomp her feet. Like I don't know how like three or four times at least.

Dylan:

Bam! Oh, it's so funny she comments on it too. She goes, every time they don't miss. Yeah. Exactly. Another one that sticks sticks out to me, I thought was hilarious in the moment, was when they were um had the helicopter.

SPEAKER_01:

Yeah.

Dylan:

And uh and he's talking to the president, and he's like, they say it can land on a dime, whatever that is. Yeah.

Joe:

Yeah, I think I think too daddy Warbuck's lines are the are great.

SPEAKER_06:

You know, they're just like even the he's like, How did you do that? What but you put her to bed?

Dylan:

Yeah, you know. Oh, that was such a sweet moment too, yeah, because he's like, you know, was helping and you know, just because he cared for Annie, uh-huh, and he's like, like you say, he's like, um, you how'd you do that? You put her to bed. And and she turns to him and goes, What do you mean? You helped.

Joe:

Yeah.

Dylan:

And he's like, I did. Yeah.

Joe:

Like I do like the you're never fully dressed. Um I I mentioned this while we're watching it, but um Ray Bulger, who played Scarecrow, yeah, in the in The Wizard of Oz, plays the the sound effects guy in the back. Yeah. It's and it's not credited, so you know, I don't know how that happened, but I mean That's wild. You don't just like get Judy Garland and stick her in the back. You know. It's like it was interesting, but you know, I I'm sure it was one of his last appearances. Yeah, with Carol Burnett, um, there's actually some behind the scenes stuff online that you can see her actually recording. Oh, yeah. Um, and especially with the Easy Street, they're all in the booth and they're all kind of doing their thing. Yeah. And the cool thing about it is she's like mo doing the motions and doing kind of the choreography, and and she's like really you know, she's still acting. Right. And so that's yeah, and so it really comes out in in the performance when you know you're you're doing it right and you're you know, so and again, she's just she's just such a talent.

Dylan:

Um yeah, for sure. Um and she uh she did good, good like with like the singing and stuff. It's definitely one of my favorites. Girls, girls.

Joe:

That was yeah, little girls, little girls, yeah. Yeah, it's crazy because um uh I guess Bet Midler was offered the part at one point. Oh, really? Yeah, yeah. So I I don't know what that, but I feel like with Tim Curry and Carol Burnett, they do look like they're related.

Dylan:

Yes, they have very similar nose shapes. Yeah, I was noticing that.

Joe:

Yeah, it's like I couldn't see it with Steve Martin and um Bet Midler. Yeah, you know, like I mean they're talented and all. Oh yeah, right, right.

Dylan:

But characteristic like look alike.

Joe:

Uh-huh.

Dylan:

Yeah. Yeah. Um you were talking about like singing, you know, onset versus like in a in the soundbooth and stuff. Uh-huh. Man, one thing that I really noticed that it was like dubbed over with the music singing and stuff, um, kind of more than the others, yeah, was the the the ending. Uh-huh. When they're like walking down the stairs and like the voices are so loud. Oh I'm like, I was like, they didn't even try. Yeah. Uh on the last song. Yeah. So when Daddy Warbucks and Annie are walking down the stairs singing to each other, yeah. Before kind of the big reveal of like the the circus and like the whole Fourth of July party is that is that they're singing um like the voices were just so much louder than anything else. Yeah. And so you're it was like, this isn't even believable. Yeah. That they're the ones singing it right now, right?

Joe:

Yeah. I think the part where they're singing about the dog, and there's the girl in the back. Um, and I think she says, like, rover, why don't we talk it over? Yeah. She goes pretty hard on her lines.

Dylan:

Like, you've got a few lines, you're gonna nail them. Yeah, exactly.

Joe:

She's like, This is my moment, I'm going forward. Right. Notice me. Yeah, exactly.

Dylan:

So, Joe. Mm-hmm. Out of out of 10 red curly wigs, what would you rate this movie?

Joe:

I'll go 7.5. Okay. It's it's hard to remember what I've rated things, so I'm just kind of going off the cuff. But I think I'm I'm 7.5. Okay. It is one of my favorites. Um it's not at that back to the future level, but it's definitely still has that rewatch value for you. Yeah, and I will say that growing up, I didn't grow up watching like it wasn't until my teens that I seen stuff like White Christmas. Yeah. And the main ones I seen growing up were like Grease and Annie. You know, and like those kind of there were more pop culture than they were like more refined stuff, you know, like seven brides didn't grow up watching that, you know, that kind of thing.

Dylan:

So I would say for me, I would probably rate it a five or a six. I feel like it definitely is showing its age. Yeah. Um do you feel like it still works today?

Joe:

Like well today is a different time.

Dylan:

Right. Uh because I don't think that they could get away with with like making it today.

Joe:

Yeah, I well, see here's the thing too, is that they had tried to do that. Like there's a you know, what was the most recent remake?

Dylan:

Um it was like a like a hip-hop version one, wasn't it?

Joe:

Yeah, so 2014. Looks like 2014. And there's a live version in 21. Okay. And yeah, the 2014 one even on IMDb was like 5.4. Yeah. It was with Jamie Foxx. And it was, yeah, it was more of a hip-hop version. Um and I don't I think what I would like to see, what I think would be cool, is to do it period, redo it, period, with a good budget. Yeah. Have all the scenes from the Broadway show, like even including the ones that they that were cut, yeah. And have actors that are gonna be as big as the ones in the 80s that they chose. You know, because like Tim Curry, um, Carol Burnett, Albert Finney, like a lot of those actors were just spot on. Like, and for the time, they were you know on top. And so if you have some good actors that are, you know, sticking out, like I don't know, Jim Carrey as rooster, you know, like how cool would that be? Super memorable. Yeah, you know, so do do something like that, make it period, um, you know, end it with Christmas, like just have it uh be what it's supposed to be. Because I've seen it um uh I seen a stage play here of Annie. Um and so uh that's the only production I've ever seen is like a local production, but yeah. Obviously never seen it on Broadway. But um and and so you kind of have to make adjustments, but I think with these days, with whether it's um CG or any kind of you know technology now, you can you can redo it right, you know. Yeah. So but and also when it comes to like asp and poon jab, you know, which I think like for me when I think about it is the is the thing that you know would kind of miff people um to do it right, maybe a little more culturally sensitive in a way, um, but even you can even go campy with it a little bit, yeah. And you know, um and just just make it funny, you know. Right. Um but yeah, I yeah, so yeah, you could definitely do that better.

Dylan:

Yeah, yeah. So would you say that it's more of a stage musical or a kind of a big cinematic spec spectacle? Because I feel like watching it, I would say it definitely still just belongs on a stage. I don't know if uh you know it really over the top. Um like but yeah, I think it I think it more belongs on a stage.

SPEAKER_01:

Yeah.

Dylan:

Um to the to the scale that they did it, yeah. Like with all the big over the top stuff. Yeah. I mean they definitely did it right. Yeah. They definitely did it justice.

Joe:

The helicopters, the you know, just the sets, the they yeah, it is huge. Um and at the time, I mean it was it was a huge production. It was and but the show was so huge at the time, and that that's why they wanted to, you know, adapt it to film because it was just kicking butt on Broadway. Yeah. So which I mean, you know, you have failures like cats, you know, which cats was great on Broadway, but you try to put it on film, it's like, what is going on? Right. I mean that one, no amount of star power could have saved you. Oh yeah, oh yeah. I mean, I don't know if you've ever heard about this, but they did re-uploads to the graphics um while it was out.

Dylan:

Yeah, like in theaters, universal pictures, like sent out like bulletins to the theaters and was like, hey, you will receive updated, you know, whatever to it.

Joe:

Yeah, it's like uh you're now receiving cats 1.5.9. It's like an OS update of cats. Yeah, that's wild. Yeah. So I don't know. Maybe people just want an OS update of Annie. Although I'll say as a kid, I did definitely respect Poon Jab. It's like he's the man. Poon Jab was the man, kicks him butt. Yeah. And and the way the way they take over that um Bolshevik guy or whatever, where like you know, he subtly throws a bomb in and then Poonchab just goes, yeah. I love how he just like, you know, um, it's just a run-of-the-mill Tuesday for them. Yeah, right. Grabs the bomb, does a twirly twirl, throws it, throws it out, and then Asp goes and just like kicks some asp.

Dylan:

Yep, and then um Daddy Warbugs talking over the phone is like, hey, they were talking about bomb-proof glass the other day. Just getting right on. Yeah.

Joe:

Well, for our next episode, um, we will be covering Stand By Me with the recent passing of Rob Reiner. Um, we felt felt it would be good to move up in our in our uh timeline to to cover.

Dylan:

Thanks for listening to Have You Seen the Movie Podcast. Make sure to follow the show on your favorite podcast app. And if you're enjoying it, leave us a five-star rating. It really helps the show grow.

Joe:

And we want to hear from you. Text us your name and movie suggestions using the link in the description. You can follow all our socials in the descriptions as well. Everything you need is right there. We'll be back next week with another movie premiere.

Dylan:

Okay, but I will be humming this all week.

Joe:

Tomorrow.

Dylan:

Absolutely. We'll talk about another movie tomorrow.

Joe:

It's only a day away.