The Outsiders: What Do You Lose When You Grow Up?

A bunch of future movie stars, a rivalry that feels bigger than high school, and one line that still echoes years later: “Stay gold.” We break down The Outsiders with a focus on the Complete Novel edition, the cut that restores key scenes and shifts the center of gravity back to Ponyboy, his brothers, and the Greasers as a family trying to hold together under pressure. If you’ve only seen the theatrical version, the differences are not tiny, they change how the story breathes.

We talk about how Francis Ford Coppola got attached to the project, why the film is likely set in the mid-1960s, and how the movie captures a clear class divide between the Greasers and the Socs without turning anyone into a cartoon. From the sudden violence to the church hideout to the whiplash of becoming heroes, the plot forces a hard question: what happens when kids are judged before they ever get a chance to grow up?

Then we go deep on craft and behind-the-scenes stories: Coppola’s rehearsal-heavy approach, the way the soundtrack shifts tone by using period songs alongside the “Stay Gold” theme, and the practical effects and filmmaking tricks that make scenes like the rumble and the fire sequence work. We also revisit the emotional core of the movie through Johnny’s letter and Robert Frost’s “Nothing Gold Can Stay,” and we wrap with our ratings and what still holds up today.

Subscribe to Have You Seen the Movie Podcast, share this with a friend who loves coming-of-age films, and leave us a five-star review if you want more movie premieres. After you listen, tell us: are you a Greaser or a Soc?

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Transcript

Welcome And Listener Callouts

Joe 0:18

Welcome to Have You Seen the Movie Podcast, where every movie is a premiere.

Dylan 0:22

This week we're diving into The Outsiders, a coming-of-age story about friendship, identity, and the divide between two worlds.

Joe 0:30

If you enjoyed the show, make sure to follow it on your favorite podcast app and leave us a five-star rating. It really helps us grow.

Dylan 0:37

We want to hear from you. Text us your name and a movie suggestion using the link in the description.

Joe 0:43

This week's movie, The Outsiders, the complete novel, is rated PG 13 for violence, thematic elements, and emotional intensity. If that's not suitable for little ears, we hope you'll tune in next week. Yeah. Alright, so I want to start with a special shout out to Heather, my niece, and her friend Juliet. They helped me decide on which version to go with so that Dylan could see the complete novel versus the regular. So we went with a complete novel.

Dylan 1:14

Yeah.

Release Date, Setting, And Coppola

Dylan 1:15

Yeah. So when did this movie come out?

Joe 1:20

1983.

Dylan 1:22

Gotcha. So when do you know when this like was set?

Joe 1:28

So there's no official date, but judging on the movie that was playing in the drive-in, it was 1965. Okay. And the book was published in 1967.

Dylan 1:44

So who directed this one?

Joe 1:47

Francis Ford Coppola, the director of The Godfather.

Dylan 1:54

Oh, okay.

Joe 1:55

Yeah. So it's based on a book by S. E. Hinton and a librarian named Joe Allen Mesakian and the students of the Lion Star School in Fresno took a petition for Francis Ford Coppola to direct the movie. Really? So he did.

Dylan 2:18

That's pretty cool.

Joe 2:19

Yeah. There was 30 signatures that they got, and they sent it to him, and he was just like 30 signatures. So he's like, I'm I'm gonna read this book and see what it's like. Yeah. And he ended up doing the movie. So I pulled out my physical book from junior high. This was my copy of The Outsiders. It's $2.95.

Dylan 2:43

Huh.

Joe 2:43

So I probably got it from the library or something.

Dylan 2:46

Yeah. You stole it from the library? No. I was trying to see when this book was printed. I don't know if it has it on there.

Joe 2:58

Had to be around 83 because it's the cover of the movie.

Dylan 3:03

Yeah.

Joe 3:03

Yeah.

Dylan 3:06

The 20th anniversary edition?

Joe 3:08

Is it really?

Dylan 3:09

Yeah. We'll have to take a picture of that and post it. Yeah.

Joe 3:16

Yeah.

Why The Complete Novel Cut

Dylan 3:17

So why was this version that we watched? Why is it considered the complete novel edition versus like just a regular movie?

Joe 3:27

When the original cut came out, I guess the producers were really focused on Dallas, and for some reason they wanted him to be kind of the main, you know, kind of person in the movie. But the novel is really about the brothers, the greasers, and kind of that whole thing. And so he he shot Francis Ford Coppola shot all the scenes that he needed to complete the movie. Yeah. But when they went to editing and things like that, they the producers were like, no, we want to we want to cut this stuff and you know move on to so like originally I mentioned this is where the movie starts.

Dylan 4:12

It was when he was leaning outside of the I don't know if you would call it a diner or what.

Joe 4:19

Uh huh. Waiting for Johnny and Pony Boy. Yeah. And in this version, uh he made it so that all the boys kind of get an entrance. Yeah. And so you s you start with Pony Boy, which is, you know, the book really it really just does follow the book, but he, you know, starts off when I stepped out of the movie house. I had two things on my mind, Paul Newman and a ride home. Yeah. And so he starts walking, but then he gets chased down by by some socias. And then finally the greasers come in to help him, and and that introduces all the characters. Overall, there's a lot more Tom Cruise and Rob Lowe in this version. There was yeah.

Dylan 5:00

So yeah, there is definitely some big names that were super young.

Joe 5:08

Yeah, yeah. What I like about it and the book is it has that start from the, you know, it kind of starts from the end, yeah, and then it ends and starts over. Yeah, it's like a perfect just I don't know, just to write a book like that, to be able to do it without making it obvious or anything like that.

Dylan 5:31

It's just so is it supposed to be like from the perspective of him writing the book or telling the story?

Joe 5:38

And when you read it, it really feels that way. Just it's very personal and you know, more descriptive of of all the characters. And that's what I liked about the book too, is you know, as much as this the movie shows a lot, there's still other characters that are kind of talked about that are kind of S. E. Hinton has different books that kind of connect. And so there's different characters who jump from here to there, and you know, so I think it'd be really cool like to do some kind of Netflix show with all the S. E. Hinton characters.

Dylan 6:15

It reminded me a lot of like just with how it was like written and and framed of him, you know, writing it is like just like stand by me in that way. Where it's you know, the the main character's perspective and written written as

Greasers Vs Socs Story Setup

Dylan 6:35

such.

Joe 6:35

So did you know anything about the Greasers or Soshas before watching this?

Dylan 6:40

I did not. I mean, I feel like I know of like the kind of the Greasers, uh-huh, but not the not the Sosh's.

Joe 6:48

Yeah, Sos.

Dylan 6:49

So it was kind of an interesting introduction, if you will, to kind of the the North and South sides.

Joe 7:02

Yeah. They're sort of gangs, yeah. Right.

Dylan 7:08

If you haven't seen this movie in a while, here's the quick setup. A group of working class teens known as the Greacers clash with the wealthier socias, leading to escalating violence and a tragic turning point that changes their lives. That frames it pretty well.

Joe 7:25

Yeah. Without giving any of the plot away.

Dylan 7:30

But yeah, I was really not expecting like the kind of the emotion of the whole thing. Like, because I had not known anything about this movie going into it. Oh yeah. And so just kind of the emotion aspect of it and like accidentally stabbing the guy and then them running away at the church, just leaving and then coming back and finding the burning building and running in there to save those kids.

Joe 8:09

Yeah. They go from, you know, essentially wanted murderers to saving lives.

Dylan 8:18

Which I was kind of surprised that they didn't go into that more, the for the you know, the murder part.

Joe 8:25

Yeah.

Dylan 8:25

Because they I felt like they really just glossed over that.

Joe 8:30

Yeah. And you know, watching the other version, this version really redeems that, believe it or not. Because they mention a news article that they got think free. Really? And that's it, huh? Yeah. Wow. It's just so like this this version with that part kind of blew me away because I always pictured it a certain way in my mind reading the book. Right. And then you watch the movie, you're like, where's all this stuff?

Dylan 9:01

Yeah. I mean, it's definitely one of those things, too, is that like it's very different than kind of the other teen movies that we've watched.

Joe 9:15

Yeah.

Dylan 9:16

Um, kind of with the with the time frame of it, I was also getting like a lot of Rebel Without a Cause from it. Yeah, yeah.

Joe 9:25

And so Yeah, it's the 80s version of Rebel. Right. You know, so and I mentioned this in the Rebel episode, but uh Ralph Macchio reminds me a bit of Soma Neo. Yeah. So and you know, from my perspective growing up, like there was a lot. There's I think, and this is why it kind of spans generations and cultures and stuff, is because you know people like this, like each person, right? Each character, like, oh, that's so and so, or oh, that's you know, and for me growing up in the neighborhood that I did, it was pretty close to you know, like a lot of kids experienced the life that Johnny did, or yeah, you know, Pony Boy, and you know, it it just yeah.

Joe’s First Watch And Frost

Dylan 10:23

So what was it like the first time that you watched this movie?

Joe 10:28

Yeah, I I remember, you know, watching it watching the original, you know, here and there on TV or the full thing. And then in junior high, I read the book because I was like, oh, yeah, yeah, and I picked it up and I read a lot. I ended up my second year of middle school. There was a poetry contest, and I just memorized Nothing Gold Can Stay by Robert Frost. And I I should I had my blue jeans and black shirt on and greased hair, and went up there on stage and recited the poem.

Dylan 11:14

It's a tribute. That's great. Yeah, yeah. So which character were you trying to look like then?

Joe 11:21

I mean, I guess Dally mostly wore the black shirt and blue jeans,

Casting Stories And Young Stars

Joe 11:25

but yeah. It's just the look.

Dylan 11:28

So speaking of characters, yeah, let's talk about you have Pony Boy, was our kind of our main So he was played by C.

Joe 11:38

Thomas Howell. And do you remember a movie that he was previously in that we've covered?

Dylan 11:44

Oh, I hate this part. Um I'm trying to think of what else was around that time that we watched.

Joe 11:52

I give you a hint, it wasn't a big part.

Dylan 11:55

It wasn't a big part?

Joe 11:56

No.

Dylan 11:57

Was it like E.T. or something? It was. Yeah. Yeah. I'm actually so proud of myself.

Joe 12:06

And overall, every I think every actor on here had tried out for a different part.

Dylan 12:14

Oh, really? And they would take a chapter out of Rob Rainer's book, hadn't he?

Joe 12:20

Well, yeah, Francis did the same thing as he as in The Godfather as well, but they had he basically for casting, they got they said it was like any anybody from 20 and below that was you know kind of a famous or 30 and below that was a famous actor, yeah, came to try out for this movie. Wow. It was such a popular novel. Yeah. And then with Francis Ford Coppola's name, they were just like, get me in the door. Yeah. So that they would have like, what'd they say? Francis would sit there and have them read different lines, yeah. And then he would go, like, oh, let's get Val Kilmer over here and have him read with Scott Bayo and you know, all these names, and and so they would just trade off roles and go over it over and over, and then they just landed where they were. That's great.

Dylan 13:13

Yeah, it works.

Joe 13:16

Then so Johnny Cade is played by Ralph Macchio. Do you know other movies that he's in?

Dylan 13:26

Ralph Macchio. The name is right there. Um I don't. What else was he in?

Joe 13:35

Well, some would say he's not, but he played the karate kid.

Dylan 13:42

How old was he when he played the karate kid?

Joe 13:45

So Karate Kid came out in 84 and Outsiders came out in 83, but it was kind of his big film, and this was the one like he says he always remembers because he he like really put a lot of effort into the part. Yeah. And he had already read the novel as a kid, yeah. And so like in middle school, and so he he really kind of fought for for the Johnny part because he always felt like he identified with that.

Dylan 14:18

Yeah, he did a great job with it. Um yeah, interesting that that character went you know from the the quietest out of the bunch and the peacemaker to accidentally stabbing somebody. Right.

Joe 14:36

Yeah.

Dylan 14:37

I don't know if you'd really call it accidental, but yeah.

Joe 14:40

I mean he ultimately he he was defending his friend. Right. You know, who was being drowned, so yeah.

Dylan 14:48

Yeah, because I mean they definitely would not have stopped. Right. So, but yeah, I mean this it's such a sad ending though. It is, it is. So you mentioned Dally earlier, so who played him?

Joe 15:07

So Dally was played by Matt Dillon, and Dali is the kid who just got out of the cooler, which is you know, jail, and you know, I don't know if it was jail jail or you know, juvenile hall or whatever, but he made it seem like it was jail jail.

Dylan 15:26

Yeah, yeah. Cause he said he was only in there, you know, for a couple months.

Joe 15:33

Yeah, it was 90 days, but he got out early.

Dylan 15:35

And you know, was still changed by it.

Joe 15:38

Mm-hmm. Yeah, I love this role, the Matt Dillon's role in this. He just plays a good punk kid type thing.

Dylan 15:47

He definitely seemed like the type of like, you know, the the the hardened punk kid, as you said. Still pull the emotion through it.

Joe 15:56

Right, yeah, he totally does. And the point when he says, Man, I thought I'd get into something like this in New York, not a here, you know. Right.

Dylan 16:04

Right.

Joe 16:05

Yeah.

Dylan 16:07

Yeah. Who was Pony Boy's brother? Sodapop and Daryl. Yeah, Sodopop is an interesting name. It's like Pony Boy. Right. And how did they explain that?

Joe 16:19

What his name was?

Dylan 16:20

Yeah. I forgot. Said like his father was thought it was funny or something like that.

Joe 16:26

Yeah, yeah. I have the book in the train should paw through it.

Dylan 16:32

But so who who played Soda Pop? Rob Lowe. Rob Lowe. That's a familiar name.

Joe 16:43

Quick check on Rob Lowe. Power, St. Elmo's Fire, Wayne's World, just to name a few. There's one I'm forgetting that was a big role. I know that St. Elmo's Fire was a big role. He was considered part of the Brat Pack as well. Yeah. Next brother is Daryl, also known as Derry Curtis. It gets a little confusing when there's a dally and a dairy. Yeah. Who are they talking about? But that role was played by Patrick Swayze. Was actually 29 at the time.

Dylan 17:23

Really?

Joe 17:24

Mm-hmm.

Dylan 17:25

Wow.

Joe 17:26

Yeah, he's supposed to be playing 20. Some of my favorites, of course, are Dirty Dancing, Ghost, and Point Break. They're his big movies.

Dylan 17:38

Haven't seen any of those. Yeah. Well, we'll cover them. Oh, so he was supposed to be 20, huh?

Joe 17:46

Yeah. Yeah. Because he was out of high school. He was old enough to take care of his younger brothers.

Dylan 17:52

Right. So I guess just by looking at him, he kind of portrays older than that.

Joe 17:59

So I think both Rob Lowe and Sue Thomas Howell might have had their 18th birthdays on the set. Oh really? Yeah. Ralph Macchio was actually 20. And S. Thomas Howell was maybe 16. So, you know, you get the almost impression like that Johnny's younger than Pony Boy, you know? Yeah. And then and it's not, it's, you know.

Dylan 18:25

Yeah, because when he when Pony Boy said he was 14 and then and then Johnny said that said 16, I was like, oh, okay, he's lying to them to but yeah, later on they they they get in a little tiff in in the church, and he's like, you know, I shouldn't have brought a 13-year-old with me.

Joe 18:45

And he's like, Yeah. I just turned 14 this month.

Dylan 18:48

Oh, when the that was the moment that I was like, oh no, they were being serious. Okay. Yeah, they were serious. So then you have Tubit. Tubit. Yeah. I recognized him. Yeah, from The Breakfast Club. Yeah. Yep. I don't remember his name.

Joe 19:10

Emilio Estevez, related to Charlie Sheen and Martin Sheen. Yeah. Which I covered. I won't go into a big Hispanic culture.

Dylan 19:21

He wanted to keep the name. But he's Latino. So yeah, when I saw him, I was like, oh hey. Yeah.

Joe 19:28

Having contrast of movies like that from you know different, you know, this movie to Breakfast Club, and he did St. Almo's Fire as well. Oh yeah. Breakfast Club was in 85, Outsiders was 83. Is an interesting connection because apparently he grew up with Tom Cruise. Like they grew up together. And because he was Martin Sheen's son, he would go with him to sets and things like that. So Francis Ford Coppola already knew him from you know filming Apocalypse Now and different things. And so he was always like considered for something. Yeah. But it was just finding the right thing. The cool thing too, going in back into the SC Hinton universe, he in 86, no, 85, did a movie called That Was Then, This Is Now. Oh. Yeah. And that for some reason is a hard hard one to find, but it's a more modern take on her books. So really. Yeah. I I kind of wish it was, you know, like they would go back and do everything in the context that they they were written. Because I really like doing I really like that kind of idea. But because characters show up from the other books in that one as well. But yeah, it's a good

Music Choices And The Stay Gold Theme

Joe 20:46

one.

Dylan 20:46

Alright. So Joe, let's talk about the music.

Joe 20:49

Yeah. So there's there's a big difference, and this is one of the things that really sets this version apart from the other one. What I really loved about it was Francis Ford Coppola's perspective of this version was you know, the previous version was orchestral and dramatic. Right. And it really like just sold the drama. Yeah. You know, when they get to the church, it's like, whoa, do, you know, like just like, you know, kind of ominous and like scary, and but like, you know, I don't know, in like a major key orchestral way. Yeah. And in this version, he takes what they would be listening to into consideration. And so, you know, whether it's Pony Boy, you know, racing out of the house or they're they're chilling in the lot, you know, there's Blue Moon, and there's like, I love the fact that they start getting on the train and they start playing mystery. Train from Elvis. Yeah. It just makes it so much more of what you think in your head when you're reading the book, right? The styles of music. There's a couple of songs like Gloria plays when they go and meet Dally. So there is a couple of 60s songs in there for the period, but also just mostly that like what Greasers would listen to. Yeah.

Dylan 22:25

Yeah. Something that I really felt with this was that you know, a lot of times we've talked about how the music really like supports the emotional aspect of the movie. Yeah. And you you didn't really get that with this one as much. But it I felt like it did such a good job though of like just setting that 60s scene.

Joe 22:52

Yeah. Yeah, I felt like it did. I felt like the angst in some of the songs really drove the kids, you know, like yeah, I mean, but still not as much as as others though. There was a score original score, I think, was done by Francis Ward Coppola's dad. Yeah. Carmine Coppola. And he wrote the the main theme, which is stay gold. So he wrote that, and he really struggled because he didn't want to let his dad down, because his dad did all this orchestral music for the movie. Yeah. He didn't want to change it to, you know, and then he passed. And so then when this came up again, he was like, okay, I think I'm gonna do what I originally intended. But the stay gold theme stayed, you know, which I feel like now it sits in a in the right place. Like whether it's the beginning or when Pony Boy's reading the letter, yeah, uh, and and that theme is coming around, like it's it it's nice to have a constant theme for for certain points in the movie, but then have a mix of music throughout, especially with you know, a bunch of young boys about to, you know, fight or whatever. Yeah.

Dylan 24:18

Alright, Joe. So can you

Rehearsals, Locations, And Method Moments

Dylan 24:20

tell me about how this movie was put together?

Joe 24:23

Uh you know, asked Francis Ford Coppola to put it together. He did the same thing as he did with The Godfather, in that he just took the book apart and made that the script. And so when they did auditions and everything, it was just basically those pieces like they would read off of or whatever. Yeah. And and so they were just kind of going through that. See. Yeah, so he what they did too was they once they once they figured out, okay, we're gonna, you know, we're gonna do this movie, here's where we're gonna do it, they went with Essie Hinton to, or Frances Ford Coppola went with her to all the places that she grew up at. Yeah. And so all the places that she or most of the places that she had in mind when she wrote this were in the movie, which kind of makes it pretty cool. Yeah. You know, she said that at the point when the movie premiered, she watched it in the drive-in that she was at, that they are they filming. Yeah, and so it was this like meta moment where she's like sitting in the drive, you know, drive-through watching the movie. So yeah, they they found an old school on the location that they were at and set up basically a Hollywood style studio in the school, and once they had the cast put together, they would use the theater part of the school to go through lines and go through scenes and all that. Okay, um, Francis Ford Coppola had some kind of like mobile TV studio with a computer in it, and so he all the things that they tried and all the scenes that they tested, he used a camcorder and filmed everything, and then they basically made it like a rough cut of the whole movie with those videotapes from that mobile TV studio. Really? So they have like I would love to see that just as an extra, but like there's just a rough cut of everything with blue screen and different things that they tried in the you know, they would set up a blue screen and try different shots and things like that. Wow. So some of the scenes they show in the the behind the scenes, but it almost looks like cable access or something because it's just you know shooting from the hip and it's not like clean like a movie, but right it gave them a sense of here's the the shot we want, or here's the direction we want it to be in. And it's almost like they rehearsed the whole thing and then went and shot it for real, like doing a play. So yeah, he he, you know, of course, I would love to work with him, but but it it it like he's definitely like the actor's director because you know, most people were like once they got out of that film, they were ready for something like that again, and most of them hadn't had that experience again. Some actors would say that they would read the part, go show up, film the scene, and leave. Yeah, whereas this is like a full-on, you know, you're doing rehearsals, you're doing you know, all that stuff just to get to know the characters. So each person who ended up with the character would just kind of ended up embodying those characters. Francis Ford Coppola really saw that in them. Matt Dillon was Dallas, you know, he just had that wit about him. And even Emilio Estevez, he knew because he knew him already, he knew what his sense of humor was like. And so, like, even the scene where they're walking in they're walking down the street in front of the house, and this random hat flies through. He like that was a hat from one of the the grips that it flew out because they were using a wind machine, and so it just flew into the scene. So he improvised that whole thing, like, hey, I got a hat.

Dylan 28:21

Wow, it and it made it in.

Joe 28:23

All his jokes just I mean, that that's the thing I love about him. Like, um with Emilio Astavez is like he just cracked me up in this movie, yeah. Just like, yeah, he just did, and then you know, when he did other movies, it's just as great, but yeah. Yeah, like a big thing that you pick up on this movie is just kind of the the class divide and how the you know be have nice cars and be very well dressed, and yeah, not that the greasers weren't well dressed, but yeah, and definitely thinking of Rebel Without a Cause, like James Dean's character is almost on the edge of it being a Soche, and then Judy was definitely a greaser, but could have been a Soche, you know. Yeah. One of the things they say that they mentioned briefly in the movie is that you know, Derry would have been a Soch.

Dylan 29:23

Yeah, which is an interesting, interesting comment to make. Yeah, because he was, you know, he was a jock and he he was friends with one of them, and you know, so yeah, I mean, and it it goes good, like it touches well on like kind of just the ideas of the identity and just belonging that they have.

Joe 29:49

Yeah, that sense of belonging, that sense of like this is this is my family, right? You know, because all of them have broken homes, yeah, and they need people to go to, and it's just that yeah, and then the innocence in that that it's just like we're brothers, yeah. Yeah, it's just so good.

Favorite Scenes And Hospital Impact

Dylan 30:10

So, Joe, could you pick out a favorite scene?

Joe 30:14

I think one of the ones that always makes me laugh, no matter what, or two of them, I'll just say off the bat, when Pony Boy's standing there looking in the mirror and asking about when Soda Pop started shaving and when Jelly started shaving and and or dairy started shaving, and Soda Pop's like, What are you thinking of growing a beard for the rumble? Yeah, you know, which is like 10 minutes away. Right. And then the other one is when Tubit and Steve come over and Tubit ends up sitting on the floor with a giant cake and a beer and watching Mickey Mouse. Yeah. Yeah, that's those are my top ones. I think you know, there's probably a lot of Matt Dillon ones too. Those are yeah.

Dylan 31:01

Yeah. I feel like the hospital scenes were very impactful on the character and kind of brought to light, if you will, like kind of the humanity in it.

Joe 31:16

One of the scenes that well, a couple of things in the hospital scenes where Johnny's nurse walks in, the one that he kind of, I don't know, messes around with or kind of tells off or whatever, is actually the writer S. E. Hinton. So she does a walk-on on there. And she had already done a movie called Text with him, and so she was already familiar with his attitude and everything, so they just got along. Oh, yeah. Yeah. And then another scene in that hosp in the hospital that was added is actually seeing Johnny's mom.

Dylan 31:52

Yeah.

Joe 31:52

Like in the other version, you never s actually see his parents. Really? And they're just this shadow, you know. This time you actually get to see, and then with Tube and Pony, you know, basically just t telling her H E double poppy sticks.

Dylan 32:08

Just an another good one that sticks with you is the the letter in Gone with the Wind that Johnny left.

Joe 32:15

Yeah.

Dylan 32:16

The you know, stay golden.

Joe 32:18

Mm-hmm.

Dylan 32:19

Yeah. Cause that was such an impactful scene, like when they sit there and talk about that and just taking a moment to just take it all in.

Joe 32:30

Yeah.

Dylan 32:31

And I feel like not to get too philosophical about it, but like, you know, especially in like today's age, you just go through life so fast.

Joe 32:44

And I I do like how when he when he reads the letter, how Johnny talks about he talks so much about about Dally, like I wanna cry. But thinking that he's gonna pass on this message to him. Right. You know, and then you know, part of what he talks about is like, you know, he he says, you know, I think staying gold is like, you know, g getting old, and and when you're young, you're green, and then you know, and how he explains it all, and and it's just like you you read it and they're like, I never thought about it that way, you know, like that's so deep, you know, right. And then I think too, like they that bond between them and how you know Pony does say, like, I can only talk to you about this, I can only talk to Soda Pop about this, like you know, and at one point Derry tells him, like, you know, basically, you're a nerd, you should stop reading books and stuff like that.

Dylan 33:50

Yeah, you know, it's like wow. All right, Joe. So let's

Staying Gold And Growing Up Fast

Dylan 33:55

get into some more of the behind-the-scenes nuggets.

Joe 33:59

They shot in CinemaScope because they wanted to be able to have wide angles, and not only that, but with as many characters are in the book and in a scene at one time, it would to have everybody like crammed crammed into a smaller, you know, uh aspect ratio would was would make it hard. So they chose to do cinema scope. They also chose that because his in his mind, he wanted it to be like an epic movie, and he wanted it to be like gone with the wind for teenagers. Yeah. And so Gone with the Wind was an overarching, you know, kind of idea at the beginning where the letters scroll to the side, that's a gone with the wind thing. Really? Yeah, that's cool. Yeah. When they do when they do the shots of like when he's re when he's reciting Stagold and they're having that conversation on the hill, that was like like three different types of filming that they did just in that one shot. Yeah. They filmed on the set on or, you know, at the church or whatever. On scene. Then they filmed with uh blue screen, and then they filmed with a projected screen behind and a set that that was like the one they were on.

Dylan 35:29

Yeah.

Joe 35:30

And so it they were able to do certain shots without compromising the you know, tone and and all that. Like it's just in and to me, it's pretty seamless, you know.

Dylan 35:42

There's a couple shots that you're like, uh, you know, but yeah, yeah, I definitely like the Stay Golden scene was one that I noticed for that just because of the lighting. Yeah. Because I was like, the lighting is not even for the space that they're in.

Joe 36:01

But I I think overall he pulled it off. It doesn't take away for me, doesn't take away from the movie. Right.

Dylan 36:06

Oh, same here.

Joe 36:09

Um, yeah, it seemed like the producers were just focused on like trying to get Dali to be the center. And the crazy thing is, like, you know, for for wanting to do that, Leif Garrett, who's who plays the the Soch that gets stabbed, yeah, he was actually kind of like I don't know who a pop star is right now, but like I don't know, Justin Bieber or something like that, you know. Yeah, he plays Bob. He was like that. He was at that time. He had like hits on the radio, yeah, and he was like of the whole cast, the most famous one at the time. Wow, yeah,

Rumble Chaos And Practical Effects

Joe 36:54

yeah. So yeah, it was just an interesting dynamic because it just what came out of it, you know, and who came out of it, just like just going through the the main cast, they're just stars, and all the actors said that Tom Cruise was just like like destined to be Tom Cruise, yeah. Like every scene that he did, he put a hundred percent into. Whether he was like when they were messing around and you know, joking on like you know, when they're reading their lines, even in the auditions, he was always serious, he was always focused, he was, you know, trying different things. They said he he would come up with ideas for scenes, and Francis would be like, Tom, you're not even in this one because he was so driven to you know do that. And like I said, I think I said this earlier, but with this new cut, you get a lot more Tom Cruise and a lot more Rob Lowe. Yeah, you know. There was um to be method, you know, on on the set. He he got the boys to stay over at the house that they you know were filming in to be like brothers for a couple of days, and he wanted them to cook a meal together and stuff, but none of them knew how to cook. Oh, funny.

Dylan 38:21

Is that why he threw the eggs on the floor? Right, exactly. Yeah, yeah.

Joe 38:25

He was making scrambled eggs. Apparently, somebody in that house knew how to make a cake. That's hilarious, yeah, yeah. Yeah, so they so he he did a lot of things like that. And Francis Ford Coppola suggested to Matt Dillon, he said, you know, well, Dallas Winston, you know, he just got out of jail and stuff. Why don't you, you know, yeah, much he said, why don't you, you know, we'll set it up, you stay a night in jail so you can get a feel of oh yeah, and he said, No way, how about you spend a night in jail? I have to say I would agree. Yeah, yeah. I I love the rumble scene because it's so chaotic and it's such a it's like you were joking about like with West Side story where you know it would be dancing, right? You know, but there's so much chaos, but there's so much control over the chaos. Yeah. When they started filming that scene out of nowhere, it started to rain.

Dylan 39:31

Oh really?

Joe 39:32

Yeah, and so instead of stopping and going, okay, we're gonna wait for this to to go by, they ended up bringing in rainmakers, yeah, you know, and to film the rest of the scene with. So it just looked that epic. Because it was like literally they start filming and it starts raining, and so it's things like that where you can't make up. It's just you know, go with it. A lot of the a lot of the actors, so see Thomas Howell is the first one to get punched in the scene, and he was hit for real and was knocked out cold.

Dylan 40:03

Oh, really? Yeah, he ducked when she should have dodged, right? Yeah, just watching that the rumble scene was really good though. So good. We watched it twice. Exactly. It was so good though because the just watching the fights and like the the art of not throwing the punch or you know, not landing the punch. Right. I know we talked about this in another movie. How you know how much more skill that actually takes.

Joe 40:38

Yeah. Yeah, I think we might have talked about in The Matrix. Um, yeah, it does take a lot of skill, and with all the chaos, Emilio Estevez said so many bodies were being flung around in the week Francis took to shoot the rumble that he cut his lip. See, Thomas Howell got a black eye, Tom Cruise broke his thumb and needed dental work done after being punched in the jaw. Yeah. And the funny thing about Tom Cruise was he had or he has a cap over his tooth. Yeah. And so the idea was that he would get punched, and then that, you know, like it would it would basically show like he he broke his tooth in the in the thing. And so he's sitting there later going, like, you know, do I look tough? You know, and yeah, Soda Pop's like, Well, you look different. How different, you know? Right. So that was like his total improv. Yeah, a couple of like, or one Easter egg, a Francis Ford Coppola Easter egg. So in The Godfather, his daughter is the baby in the bapt baptism scene.

Dylan 41:47

Yeah.

Joe 41:48

His daughter is the girl who comes up to the car and says, Do you got a dime?

Dylan 41:53

Oh, yeah.

Joe 41:54

Yeah. And again, she's gone on to become a famous director herself.

Dylan 42:00

I guess when you grow up around all that.

Joe 42:02

Yeah, right. It's bound to happen. One of the last cool things that's kind of a a I'd say Disney, Disney-esque thing, is so they so in the church burning scene, they had to obviously not harm the actors and put them under you know, in real fire or the kids. Oh yeah. So Disney. So they used Pepper's Ghost. Do you know what Pepper's Ghost is? Explain.

Dylan 42:36

So Pepper's Ghost effect is when they take like a sheet of glass and pretty much project something onto it that would then bounce back, and that's what you would see. Yeah. So then you get a see-through image while you still have the scene behind it. Yeah. So like at Disney, yeah, you have the ghost mansion. Yeah, you asked for this. Yes. Oh yes. You have the the haunted mansion. And so the the ballroom where they're all dancing and eating and just having a great big party, yeah. Is just one giant sheet of glass.

Joe 43:22

Uh-huh.

Dylan 43:23

And there is actual animatronics above and below you that are reflected off of glass, and that's how you see it. Yeah. So it still gives that transparent look to it, and you still have the the physical effect.

Joe 43:39

And so that beam that hits Johnny is that whole effect.

Dylan 43:44

Really? That's awesome. Yeah. I noticed like they had the like just the flames at the bottom of the screen were very flat.

Joe 43:54

Yeah.

Dylan 43:54

I'm like, I'm like, okay, this was added in and post. I get it. Yeah. Not gonna complain. And then some of the burning beams that were falling down, yeah, like I could tell was very controlled. Uh-huh. They fell. But I I guess I notice that stuff because I look for it. Yeah. But I still appreciate that.

Joe 44:15

Yeah. It I I feel like i you know the whole chaos of the scene and everything going on, you're not really thinking about that. Right. And then you look back and you're like, oh, like I could totally see, you know. But yeah, I mean they were it was so so creative for the time because they didn't really have like all the CG and all that stuff. It's 83. So the other thing they did was when Johnny is, you know, he he's killed Bob and he's talking to Pony Boy. There's a moment where he he's talking to Pony Boy, and Bob is like kind of more forward, he's more in the foreground than you, you know, then right. And they used a lens that was kind of like a bifocal to get that shot. Oh, really? Yeah. So it's not a green screen or anything, it's one shot.

Dylan 45:07

I mean, because with the camera, you would have to choose, especially with that like distance, of you know, do I want the focus to be here or do I want it to be on, you know, them? Yeah.

Joe 45:17

So it's such a great shot too, because it's like what is in Johnny's head because he's thinking about that, you know, he's thinking about what's behind him. Yeah. Right. So the final thing is there's a there's a different, like the main poster for the for the the movie, they're all like you would think they were looking they would look tough and all that kind of stuff. And they're all laughing in in the thing. And what had happened was is they were getting lined up to take the shot and everything, yeah. And they were still filming, but and there's craft services over, you know, catering over to the side. Delicious. And they they had previously gone over there and somebody got in their face and was like, Hey, that's for the talent, or whatever. And so as they were taking the photo, Leif Garrett, who again was like the Justin Bieber or whatever of the time, goes over to craft services to get food, and they said, Hey, that's for the talent. So, and so Ralph Machi goes, Yeah, Leif, that's for the talent, and that's what made them all laugh.

Dylan 46:26

And so then they took that shot. That's funny, yeah.

Joe 46:29

It's like, you know, again, people not recognizing famous people, yeah.

Dylan 46:36

Right. Man, that'd definitely be me. You know who that was? No, yeah, exactly.

Joe 46:44

I was when I did security, I was always the guy that they come to was like, who is that? Oh, well, he's on this, that, and the other. Oh, yeah. Yeah.

Dylan 46:52

So what impact would you say this movie had when it came out?

Cultural Impact, Ratings, And Farewell

Joe 46:58

Oh, it was huge, I think. Because even even the kids who signed the petition got a special screening and really? Oh, that's awesome. And the actors went back and later they had like sort of a little mini reunion a couple years later. Oh, really? And by then the actors had gotten famous, so you know, Patrick Swayze was like, you know, I gotta thank you for this because this really boosted my career. Yeah. So, you know, the biggest I think I'd have to say the biggest actor out of out of all of them was Tom Cruise. Yeah. You know, and he had already had like, you know, taps done, and then he had two two or three films after that, which was like Risky Business, which was the one that really catapulted him. Yeah. But yeah, like Cultural Impact totally just all these stars that made it. Yeah. You know, yeah.

Dylan 47:54

That's great.

Joe 47:55

Yeah, I guess I would say it's a good it it is a good middle school book. Yeah. And I think because you're going through a lot of that at the time, you know, you're going through s those changes in life, you're going through just all the questions that you have as a kid, you know, and then you see these these this strong kind of family unit together and how they pull for one another. And you know, it's just yeah, reading reading the book and reading the details of why they ended up there and you know, dairy having to fight to get them and keep them, and you know, with their parents dying and everything. It's like there's a lot in there.

Dylan 48:40

Yeah.

Joe 48:41

So, Dylan, would you say you're a greaser or a social?

Dylan 48:47

I feel like I definitely connected more with the greasers. Yeah, yeah. The movie just did a good job of just framing it between like kind of upper class versus lower class. Yeah. But them touching on not wanting to be sent away to the boarding house and toys home. Right. Yeah. It touches you.

Joe 49:22

Yeah, yeah. And I think the cold the and this was part of the addition to the movie was you have the trial, and then when they get to school, he sees Cherry at the steps, and she just kind of coldly walks away. Yeah. There's like a bit of acknowledgement, but there's also I told you so. You know, like I told you I was gonna do this, you know. Right. And a bit of hesitation, but it's like she goes to bat for him in court, but then they get to school and it's just reset, like just so it yeah, that's a statement in itself.

Dylan 50:02

Yeah, yeah. But I I think overall though, I would give this movie probably an eight.

Joe 50:10

Yeah.

Dylan 50:10

So it was good, definitely worth a rewatch.

Joe 50:13

Yeah, I'm probably gonna rewatch it tonight. I want to go back and rewatch the other version too again because it's just different. Like I said, it plays up the drama more, whereas this one gives it a little more grounding. Just so different.

Dylan 50:31

So, what's your rating?

Joe 50:33

I think I'd give it an eight. Yeah, I want to, you know, I'm gonna say eight point five. Okay, yeah, just to just a one up. Yeah, I it's one of my favorite movies, and re-watching it again, just realizing how much I should watch it more. Yeah, because again, like just those characters going back to Emilo Esteves, just how he goes around and just jokes around with every single person at the drive drive-thru. Yeah, you know, like just being a uh a prankster all over the place, you know. So he just took on that role. Yeah. And yeah, I just I strive to be funny. Obviously, I don't want to do that, but do what he does, but right.

Dylan 51:22

Um, so thanks for listening to Have You Seen the Movie Podcast.

Joe 51:27

Make sure to follow the show on your favorite podcast app, and if you're enjoying it, leave us a five-star rating. It really helps us grow.

Dylan 51:33

And we want to hear from you. Text us your name and a movie suggestion using the link in the description.

Joe 51:39

You can follow all of our socials in the description as well. Everything you need is right there.

Dylan 51:44

We'll be back next week with another movie premiere.

Joe 51:49

Hey Dylan.

Dylan 51:50

Yeah. Stay gold. Nature's first green is gold, her hardest hue to hold, her early leaves of flower, but only so an hour. Then leaves subsides to leaf, so Eden sank to grief, so dawn goes down today. Nothing gold can stay.