Untuck Your Cross

Olympic Chaplain: Gold Medal Depression Is Real! The Crisis Sport Won't Warn You About

• Denis • Season 2 • Episode 13

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What happens to an athlete when sport is the
only identity they have ever known, and then
it disappears?

Steve Sellers, chaplain for Canada's Olympic
Training Center in Calgary & Canmore since 1994 and author of Field
Guide to Athlete Chaplaincy, has spent 40 years
in the rooms most people run from. In this episode
we talk about athlete identity crisis, gold medal
depression, why retirement can lead to suicidal
thoughts, and how joy rooted in Christ is the only
foundation that survives the end of a career.

We cover:
- The 4 roles of a sports chaplain
- Why everyone retires unfulfilled — even Olympians
- The atheist speed skater who got baptized
- The courage to stay when everyone else runs
- Joy as a performance multiplier 
- My own story of addiction after COVID took
  football away

Steve Sellers Book Field Guide to Athlete Chaplaincy: https://www.indigo.ca/en-ca/field-guide-to-athlete-chaplaincy/9781038314727.html

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🎙️ UNTUCK YOUR CROSS
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entrepreneurship, and daily life — bold, honest,
and faith-first. New episodes every other Tuesday.

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Trailer

SPEAKER_01

It's amazing how many athlete retirement stories involve suicidal thoughts. The days that I get alone before competition and just get happy in God, when I go out and pole vault, it's like an extension of the joy that I'm feeling inside my heart. God created us for more than just ourselves. He created us to glorify him. And I say he says, I will not be robbed of my glory.

SPEAKER_00

I started playing football for the first time in grade 10, and I fell in love with it. And then COVID hit, and that was stripped away from me, and I didn't know what to do. And then I fell into addiction. And thankfully, God has delivered me from that.

SPEAKER_01

We experienced a fatality on one of my teams. 19-year-old young person died. The coach was away and he came back and I was there. And the first thing he told me says, I want to run away from this. And I said, Coach, I'll be your wingman. We'll get through this together. I can't step onto the athletic venues without walking with the Lord well and doing it in my own strength. I can't do that. Everybody retires unfulfilled. Even if you're an Olympic champion, you say, Oh, I wish I could have been a World Cup champion. It's that hunger that keeps you going, that makes you successful as an athlete. And then when that's gone, they can leave a person just so lost,

Meet Steve Sellers

SPEAKER_01

I think.

SPEAKER_00

Hey guys, welcome back to another episode of Untuck Your Cross. Today I have a new guest, Steve Sellers. Thank you so much for being on the podcast. I was wondering if you would be able to introduce yourself to those audiences who don't know you and aren't aware of what you're doing. If you could give us just a um just a quick quick rundown of what you're currently currently doing.

SPEAKER_01

Sure. I'm the chaplain for our Olympic Training Center in Calgary and Canbore. I've been doing that for since nine. When did I start? Uh sin '94, basically, up here. And then before that, I was in the U.S., uh working for Athletes in Action as a sport chaplain, a couple major U.S. college campuses, Michigan Tech and uh University of Minnesota. And just my role as a sport chaplain is uh we'll we'll get into that today, I guess. But uh I've also been a pastor, I've been an associate pastor for four years and uh pastor for nine years of a small church plant up in Canmore.

SPEAKER_00

Perfect. Uh again, like I was saying, like one of the main uh things, uh niches that I'm trying to target with this podcast is being able to give uh athletes and people in the athletics world a voice and a chance to uh kind of talk about their testimony and their stories and how Christ has been impacting their life. And uh who better to ask about that

What Is a Sports Chaplain?

SPEAKER_00

than a sports chaplain. So I was wondering, would you be able to give me a definition of what a sports chaplain is for those who don't aren't aware?

SPEAKER_01

Oh, a chaplain. The the the word chaplain, it's it's Latin for something about your cape or something laying the ground. I don't know how how that's relevant, but a chaplain uh the whole concept is started in in the military. It really came into prominence in World War I. And then actually in World War II, the chaplains sustained the second highest casualty rate, second only to in infantry, because chaplains are are right with the soldiers in the trenches and the battlefields, and they're usually unarmed uh non-combatants, but uh because they're with the the athletes. So chaplains are active in schools, uh hospitals, um, workplaces, all kinds of things like that. But really, it's got to start in in the in the military in that world. And it's kind of like in in the sport world, uh, chaplaincy, I think, is a lot like there's a lot of parallels between military and and and athletes, because in in in sport, you're really you're combating it in many ways, whether it's against yourself or or other opponents. And uh the the chaplain just comes alongside and is a support for you and a help in several different circumstances in different ways.

SPEAKER_00

Perfect. Yeah, so you you mentioned that in your book, your uh your book here for those who don't know, it's uh field guide to athlete chaplaincy by Steve Sellers. Um and that point about uh chaplains being the second most targeted in casualties. Um so what was their exact role in the army and um why why was it that they were that you felt like they were being targeted?

SPEAKER_01

Uh well they weren't being targeted, but I mean chaplains, like I said, they're they're there with the soldiers. You know, they're not in some office some way far away, and and uh they're like I said, they're in the trenches. Uh that was more World War I, but uh they're on the bat they're in the battlefield next to the to the soldiers and there to be helpful help for them.

SPEAKER_00

Were were they spiritual leaders or were they medics? What were they were they doing?

SPEAKER_01

They're spiritual leaders and and um I've seen pictures even in modern day chaplains, they're they're doing baptisms of guys right in the battlefield. They'll not in the battlefield, but just uh at on the front line sometimes and uh at the base, they'll put together some impromptu tub and the the guy wants to get baptized and affirm his faith, they'll they'll dunk them there or or however, or are just they're there to pray with the the soldiers, they're there to lend us support, um, even conduct funerals at times and weddings as well, uh things like that.

Why He Chose Chaplaincy

SPEAKER_00

Perfect. Uh, and so in regards to what made you specifically want to choose a career in chaplaincy, would you be able to kind of um run that down for us?

SPEAKER_01

Man, that goes way a long time ago, 1985, is when I started. And I just remember thinking, you know, uh the message that God has, salvation through Jesus by the work he paid for on the cross is the most beautiful message known to man. And I want the world to to know and hear that. And the world listens to athletes, and and the sport world is a world that is attractive, it's engaging. And I just thought, man, if you could combine the message of Christ with that message, this is my thought process four years ago, so it's been a long time. But um that's what I was thinking, going through at the time, just thinking, I'd love to be able to do ministry with the athletes, but then it became more for the athletes because uh I just began to see the needs that the athletes have. And I'm not there to use them to get across the message I want to get across, but I'm there to to to be a resource for them to help them grow as people. And when they're healthy and that they do well, that they're healthy emotionally and spiritually, then they're able to do well in their sport and do well in life.

Steve's Athletic Background

SPEAKER_00

And were you were you an athlete before that? Is was that your interest in in um athletics?

SPEAKER_01

Or was that uh I I say I'm a would-be-has been cross-country skier. So it wasn't quite good enough to really be a would-be, but you never or has been, but you never know. But I I competed uh at pretty high level in ski marathons, and then um I got to be one World Cup race, and then in my later years, I discovered a sport called ski mountaineering racing, and it's gonna make its Olympic debut here in a week or two. Okay. At the Olympic for the for the first time. And I was able to be on the national team for Canada for uh seven years, and then I was uh I was our junior national coach for five years for that

From Athlete to Ministry

SPEAKER_01

sport.

SPEAKER_00

And so would you be able to explain us? So, how did you exactly enter into the whole uh world of being a sports chaplain? Where did your career start?

SPEAKER_01

Well, I competed uh collegiately uh in cross-country skiing. We were national champions in our division at the University of Minnesota back in 1983. This is a long time ago. And uh so I was involved with sport ministry as an athlete, and then um I was thinking about trying to do some things as an athlete and ministry. So I met with one of our the athletes in action uh staff that was uh at that campus, and he said, Well, why don't you just join our staff? So that was the first time I've been challenged to go into ministry, and I thought, well, let me think about that. And then uh I worked for a couple of years after uh going to university, and and uh then I came around and said, Yeah, this is how I want to spend my life in in career

Steve's Faith Story

SPEAKER_01

ministry.

SPEAKER_00

Um, I wanted to backtrack. Uh, would you be able to um kind of share your testimony on how it is that you met Christ and what part that has played in your life?

SPEAKER_01

Sure. I mean, I'd love to tell my story, my faith story. That goes back even farther than the 80s, back when I was quite quite small. My parents are were were Christians. My dad, uh, you know, uh there's an evangelist called Billy Graham. Yeah, many people know Billy Graham, and he used to have this saying, uh, come come walk down the aisles and counselors will meet with you and pray with you to help you receive Christ. And uh my dad was one of those guys that walked the aisle. Billy Graham always used to say the buses will wait. Well, he made the buses wait. He was one of those guys. And and uh interesting, I kind of brought it around because um Billy Graham's ministries were located in Minneapolis, and so they would have to have they do these television conferences or evangelistic meetings, and they need counselors. And so, as a young person, maybe in my mid-20s, I volunteered here to be one of those counselors. So I got to be the telephone counselor to someone like was for my dad that helped them become a Christian. That was really exciting. But my mom was also a Christian, and and we we went to church my whole life and and growing up, and uh I came a time I realized I needed to make the decision for myself, and so I remember saying, uh I think I think I asked my mom, mom, can I can can you pray with me? I want to ask Jesus into my heart and believe in in him for what he's done for me on the cross. And so I sat down and prayed on the couch in my in my house home and he died in Minnesota, and I still remember, you know, I was probably seven or eight years old, not too, not too old, but um I had such a peace because I I knew something significant happened that day because I just felt this overwhelming peace. And my brother, my younger brother, we used to fight, fight like cats and dogs, and he sensed something was going on. I said, Can I do that too? And my parents said, Well, wait till you make sure you know what what it's all about, you know. But even my brother at the time could say, Something happened in me. I don't want to base that on emotional feeling, uh, but I want to, you know, base my my uh decision to accept Christ on the facts of the gospel and and the faith in that. But there were the feelings that came along with that that confirmed that, yes, something significant happened here today.

Making Your Own Decision for Christ

SPEAKER_00

And so what was it that made you feel like you needed to make a decision and a decision on what exactly?

SPEAKER_01

Well, you're talking 60 years ago almost, maybe 55 years ago. So I it's not like I had this riveting testimony of going down the drug world or this world or whatever, but I just growing up knew that uh Jesus was there for me and that uh a relationship was available, and all it was up to me just to ask him to have that and by faith receive it. That's what I did.

SPEAKER_00

Amen. Amen. That was equally that was the uh greatest decision I ever made um that anyone can make.

The 4 Roles of a Sports Chaplain

SPEAKER_00

Um and now, as you work as a chaplain, um, would you be able to kind of explain where um more deeply what a chaplain in the sports world is and how your faith and the gospel plays in that role?

SPEAKER_01

Sure. Um when I come to a team and explain who I am, what I have to offer, I I highlight four things. And uh there's there's probably many more, but I just say there's four things that a chaplain does. And the first one, you're a neutral listening ear. And uh that's that's one of the strengths of the chaplaincy because whether I'm talking to a coach or an athlete, especially a coach, everybody's got an agenda. You know, whether it's a parent or a player that wants more ice time or whatever, or the the media or uh fans, everybody's got an agenda. But the chaplain shouldn't have an agenda, and we can come in as that neutral listening ear. Everybody needs to have someone in their life that cares about them enough to listen. And if you if you're taking the time, then you're you're giving them your heart, you know. And and so I tell a team that that's what a chaplain does. I'm a neutral listening ear. And I've I can tell you story after story, uh, even people who aren't pursuing faith, but they just want someone to to to talk to and kind of weigh it out. Like right now, I can't tell you how many times the Olympics are gonna start in just a couple of days here. And I've seen more social media posts from those that didn't make it. I mean, that's devastating. I had a one one guy in a sport, just a big massive guy, and just tough, and a sport that requires a lot of toughness. He was in tears because he'd given his life to make it to the Olympics, and he came to the realization this summer it wasn't gonna happen. And you know, he's not pursuing faith at this time very actively, to my knowledge. Um but uh man, he just needed someone to confide in. He had he had to be tough to his teammates, and maybe those that are fans of the sport, but he he could be vulnerable with the chaplain. So that's the first one. That's a long explanation, maybe for neutral listening here. The second one is help in times of tragedy. You know, the tragedy always happens, and you never you're never really ready for it. And uh it can pop up at any time and in any way, and and uh I've got training in that. Actually, I volunteered with the RCMP for 20 years with their victim services unit, and and um not that I'm an expert in that, I've taken graduate level classes and handling tragedy, but really boots on the ground is that's the educational part. You know, when I when I was applying for um to be a victim services advocate, they they presented a scenario. I said, now what would you do if if in this? And they kind of explained it. And I thought about it. I thought, man, I don't know what's going on in this person's mind or heart, what their experience has been, and and I I I really wouldn't have a clue. And so I thought, well, the first thing, if I was honest, I told them I'd pray and ask for wisdom. And and they and I thought, well, for sure they're not gonna accept me in the program with this, but um but this later, my director he said, No, we like that answer. So help in times of tragedy, and I can tell you some stories, maybe they'll come out during our time here. But that's what a chaplain does, just walks alongside people in these situations and and helps them get get through it at that at that moment and and the moments that to come on after that. And thirdly, spiritual formation. Everybody's got a belief system. I've uh described some people that weren't pursuing faith, but they still have a belief system, everybody does. And I tell people, hopefully I'm honest in this, but I say I'm not here to push my belief system onto you, but to help you to to develop your belief system. But naturally, I want them to know Jesus and accept him into their life like I did, as you graciously asked me to share with that. Um but um just to help them on their journey. And then then lastly, I just say number four is just uh help in developing your life skills and you for your life skills toolbox. You know, we've we've all seen teams that that implode because of relational difficulties, and and sometimes if you can just speak a word into that. And one of the classes I took was on conflict resolution. And uh I remember I told the prophet was a good friend of mine, I said, you know, I wish I had known this 30 years ago, would have saved me so much trouble and grief. Those are the four things. Uh neutral listening here, help in times of tragedy, uh, spiritual formation, and then uh life skills for your life skills toolbox.

Serving Athletes of Other Faiths

SPEAKER_00

One of the third point, the spiritual formation. Um, you had a uh one of the last chapters in your book, you talked about the just dynamic between being a chaplain for people who are Christian but also who aren't, whether or not that means that they are agnostic or atheist or other religion, like Buddhist or um uh or Muslim. And I I wonder what what is that dynamic where you have a firm faith in Christ and then you are walking into a role where you're supposed to be um lifting up these uh these athletes in their own faith, but it's not a faith that you share. But tell me about thy dynamic. Is that something that you struggle with?

SPEAKER_01

Um, not really, because I'm like I said, of those four things, only three of them, only one of them out of the four, deal with the faith formation part. And I've had a lot of guys that, like I said, weren't pursuing faith, but they just needed one of those other three aspects. I'm a chaplain for a junior hockey team, and uh a couple years ago we had a Muslim young man on our team, and and he was an ardent supporter of our chapel program. And so the the coach always appoints a um a chapel liaison member of the team team to kind of liaison with me when scheduling and everything like that. And so this guy, the Muslim guy, said, Well, he's the most supporter, big supporter of the chapel, he's gotta be your liaison. So this Muslim guy was was my chapel liaison for the team. And and he told me when he when he um moved on, he said, before I left it, Steve, I've learned so much just from you and the chapel program. And I would advise I would invite him at like like you know, hey, if you got some insight from the Quran you want to share, in addition to my Bible verses, feel free to do that. I'd give them the invitation to do that.

Planting Gospel Seeds Without Pushing

SPEAKER_00

Well, how how do you plant seeds in that in the aspect where in for somebody who is firm in their other faith and they're asking you for advice, like what is your uh strategy, or how do you go about planting seeds in a way um that isn't necessarily pushing your your faith on them, in if that makes sense?

SPEAKER_01

Yeah, I mean, well, in in that particular chapel program, I always share the gospel in some form, whether it's in my closing prayer or just in some illustration. And so I'm always planting seeds that way. I remember a st story, I have a good friend who's uh an NFL chaplain down in the States, and and on his football team, they had this one very one of the star players, his his one of his parents was uh one faith and the other one was an another faith. And and he had a very um the his name was very typical of this other religion, but he's an ardent Christian. So I asked my my friend the chap, I said, how come this guy with this faith-sounding name is actually uh a Christian? He said, Well, um he watched his his parents pray, and he always seemed that the the one the Christian parent, their prayer seemed to be more genuine and get answered. And so he decided as he weighed out the two options in his home, he decided to go with with the Christian Christian faith. And so I think the a Canadian uh term that I learned when I moved up to Canada in the in the early 90s is the proof is in the pudding, something like that. And that was the truth for him. And I think the same thing is true that the the the just the intellectual facts of faith and some of the other things and just expressions of it, they get revealed for for what they truly are. So you don't have to have all your apologetics and arguments down, uh, but just be ardent about your love for for God and and follow through with that. I think people see that and

Atheist to Baptized

SPEAKER_01

recognize that.

SPEAKER_00

Would you be able to share a story about somebody who, you know, maybe came into your chaplain program and wasn't uh wasn't a believer and what their journey has been like to accepting Christ?

SPEAKER_01

Sure. I uh this is a while ago now, but um I've done a lot with speed skating through the years, and uh we had a European speed skater come along and he was very uh clear that that he was an atheist and he wasn't gonna believe in in any God. But I I just befriended him and through the years we just struck up a really good friendship. And um and then it kind of came out why he was an atheist. Something that happened to him when he was a young person, someone who had a Christian faith, did something that just hurt him as a child. And so he wanted nothing to do with the faith. And and he started but he started coming around and he uh and he became a Christian. And I remember I'll never forget the day when he got baptized. I thought, here we were baptizing this guy, I've seen him go from ardent atheist to following following Jesus and getting baptized and showing people that this is who I'm gonna follow now. It was kind of fun to see that happen.

When God Does the Work

SPEAKER_00

And and from uh like an outside perspective, when you see that type of work being happening and the seeds that you plant or other plant uh people plant, what how does that make you feel? How do what's your reaction when you see something like that?

SPEAKER_01

Well, the Bible makes it clear it's God's the one doing all the work. And uh He uses us as tools along the way, and it's just wonderful to be used as a tool in that whole process. And and and uh faith, alive, when you become alive to God, that's something only really God does inside a person's heart. And uh it's it's just wonderful to be used as in that process.

SPEAKER_00

Amen.

Witnessing Someone's Pain

SPEAKER_00

Um, the this um the second point that you talked about as a role as a uh as a chaplain was uh helping with tragedy. And I think for the better part of the second half of your book, you talked a lot about that. And it was uh as you talk about the different types of tragedy and how how to handle it, it was hard for me not to kind of I don't know, get um put myself in that situation. Like what would I how would I react if I was the person experiencing loss, or how would I react when I'm trying to be supportive with somebody else who's experiencing loss? And there's a specific um uh uh quote from from your book that I wanted to read and I wanted to just dive into it a little bit deeper. Um, and that is so, in regards to tragedy, you said that finally during these intense life situations, sometimes we simply just need someone that is a witness to our pain and cares about us. And I was wondering if you'd be able to kind of dive into what it means to be a witness to somebody's pain.

SPEAKER_01

Sure. That came from my time with uh RCMP, uh the victim services. I remember uh it was the first day of my training, and you know, the RCMP, they they experienced the worst of the worst things that happened in life suicides, rapes, uh you know, tragic deaths, all kinds of things. And and I I wasn't sure if I could actually do it. And and the very first day of training, our director said he said that. He said that that that quote you just said there from my book. Sometimes people just need a witness to their pain. And I thought, well, I I can do that. And then that was the first time I realized I think I can do this. And and and it's it's more powerful than most people realize because anything you say in those moments, it's gonna be uh it's hard to say the right thing. And and people are afraid they're gonna say the wrong thing. So they avoid those situations altogether. Uh on my

A 19-Year-Old Fatality on His Team

SPEAKER_01

one of my teams, the coach, we we experienced a fatality on one of my teams, 19 year old. Young person died, and the coach was away and he came back and I was there. And the first thing he told me says, I just want to run. I want to run away from this. And I said, Coach, I'll be your wingman. We'll get we'll get through this together. And the whole team, that's what we did. I mean, I was with him. Uh, the first thing we did, we had to go to the Billet Billet family's home and talk to them. I was with the coach during that. Um, the team stayed together for two whole days. They even slept together in one of the Billet family bigger homes and and and just just just to be there with the team. And then we went up to the the the memorial service, the funeral, and I the coach says, Steve, tell the guys what to expect. You know, so I'm on the team bus and I'm saying this is what's gonna happen, guys, and just to just to be there and just to kind of experience that with that with him. And uh I didn't I didn't say much that of anything that was very poignant at all, I think for this whole that time period, but just just just to be there, to walk alongside and lend support is so important. And the whole concept of being a witness doesn't come, it's not just tragedy, it's other situations. Like um, well, like I maybe I even mentioned in my book, like sometimes like some sports don't get a lot of notoriety, like an offensive alignment, you know. But if an offensive lineman isn't doing his job in football, the the quarterback and the running backs and the receivers aren't going to be able to get their jobs done. And so when I would go to games for teams as a chapter for, I'd make mental notes and I'd say, Hey, I saw that block. That was in the third quarter, that was so good. I'm probably the only guy that would notice that and say something. It makes a person feel noticed and you know, kind of feel feels good that someone saw you do that. Or um getting back to victim services, I remember there's a moment when I watched my director say just this simple phrase, he's he's some somebody's going through something really hard, and he said, This must be very hard for you. Obviously, you it's kind of an obvious statement, but just the fact that he would notice that and say something that he noticed it was really powerful. And just the way he delivered that message, I can see that this is really difficult

Courage in Tragedy

SPEAKER_01

for you.

SPEAKER_00

And in regards to uh all the experience and wisdom you've gained as you've gone about being a chaplain in times of of loss and tragedy, is there any advice that you would give to somebody outside of you know being a witness of pain and just to another person who's considering being a sports chaplain? What would your advice be in regards to how to prop how to properly handle and be a be a leader in amidst that tragedy and pain?

SPEAKER_01

Have courage because those are scary situations. And like my my coach mentioned earlier, most people want to do what he just said. I want to run away. I don't want to deal with this because we're afraid of saying the wrong thing, doing the wrong thing, looking bad, or it's those are scary times. But um someone needs to step up, and most people aren't willing to do it or have the courage to do it, but have the courage and do it and just be there. And even if you make mistakes, in the book I told about a mistake that I made with one of the teams during a tragic situation, I was rushing them through the process, and I was informed later that that that they thought felt I was doing that. I was embarrassed. I wish I could go back and do a do-over, but they're probably not gonna remember my mistake, but they're gonna remember, hey, he was there, he was there for us. So that's my aside from being a witness, just have courage to step it up and and be willing to be that person. And even if you blow it or do something wrong, it's okay because uh uh they'll remember that you were there

Why Chaplains Don't Get Respect

SPEAKER_01

for sure.

SPEAKER_00

In your experiences, has that been the hardest part of your job is is helping you deal with with tragedy and and pain?

SPEAKER_01

Sometimes the hard part is just getting the respect. Because in our what what I've experienced in in our Olympic training center, when tragedies happen, the first thing they want to do is call in the sports psychologist. But most of our sports psychologists, they're mental performance coaches, and they're not some of them, if you if you just get a master's degree in mental um performance, you maybe have one class in counseling and and no experience. And so they call the the sports psychologist, they call them psychologists, they're they're not licensed psychologists, they're not really allowed to do that. Uh in Canada, we have some licensed psychologists and they're great and therapists and well, but they call the ment the sports psychologists in, and and some of them don't even want to deal with the life stuff because they don't have the training, the experience. And so, but but that's who they want to go with. We a few years ago, we at the Alpine World Cup, we had a couple fatalities. Actually, in one year, we had two fatalities. And so I contacted the um the organizers and said, you know, I I'm willing to be a chaplain, boots on the ground. I have some training in this. And they said, We'd rather call in the professionals. I'm thinking, well, what am I? You know, I am a professional. You know, down the road, uh, if someone has PTSD or is not getting through it, most people are resilient, and within weeks or months, they they move on and they're okay. Some people struggle and they don't have that resiliency. They need the professional counselor for sure. And and and and as a sport chaplain, I need to stay in my lane. My lane isn't a professional counselor. I need to know when to refer in that to that direction. But I've one of the challenges I'm finding is I'll is finding respect is to know that hey, we we've got training and in being there and knowing what to do and say in in these moments of great pain and great hurt and great loss, and and and uh just have the respect and and and and lean on us because everybody needs help in this. And uh we're willing to be there and to help and be a be the person that can stand the gap for you. So uh I am I am a professional.

Building Trust With a Team

SPEAKER_00

And what have you seen as being the the um the best strategy to gain that respect in the teams that you've been joining?

SPEAKER_01

Just relationships, you know. Um our head sports psychologist, he's a friend of mine, and I really I really respect him greatly. I call it the CSI Canadian Sport Institute. I have great respect for him and and just to to have a friendship and so he can have that trust relationship. You don't just let people in those situations because they're raw unless you trust that person. So I think building relationships and showing people that you are a person that you can be entrusted with and is skilled and just kind of leading and and and guiding and and caring.

SPEAKER_00

What would you say is the best way to help gain that trust from people?

SPEAKER_01

Oh, like I said, just having relationships and being there and initiating and in the sport world, there's certain things you talk about and enjoy. Like like uh I remember do working with football players talking about their bench press, and I'm a terrible bench presser, but I love talking about that stuff. And you talk about the things that just are important to them and and uh they they they they they see that and they care, they can see that you care about those aspects, and and I think just that caring relationship and a trusted relationship can can open them up to

What He Loves Most About Chaplaincy

SPEAKER_01

you in the future.

SPEAKER_00

What's the thing that you enjoy the most about being a sports chaplain?

SPEAKER_01

Oh, that's a good question. Being around great people. Because I mean, uh in our in our sport world, the Olympians that I would deal with, they only get the stage in f every four years. And the rest of those four years, people don't care as much as they do like professional hockey players and football players and other sports, and and um I just and I esteem their their efforts and their sports so much, what they do, and I want to be there for them. And I love I just love the people and that the people that are pursuing excellence, you know, like our bops like guys, they had to pay like $40,000 to be on the team this year. And that's commitment. When you pay that much money just to be a part of a team, and there's no guarantee they'd make it on the Olympics. A lot of them paid that money, didn't make the Olympic team, they didn't get the money back, I don't think. I don't know, but just they're just they're so committed to their sport, not just to pay the money, but just to be there every day, day in and day out, training and working hard, not getting noticed, and and just doing doing their jobs, and and uh it's just fun to be a part of their lives because I just esteem

How Chaplaincy Deepened Steve's Faith

SPEAKER_01

them so much in what they're doing.

SPEAKER_00

How has this role specifically affected your own faith and your relationship with Christ?

SPEAKER_01

Well, it keeps you on your faith toes for sure, because uh you know, we all have sin and it creeps into our lives, and and we need to keep keep an open relationship with the Lord going, and and we need to confess those sins and and uh admit that we we blew it, admit that it's forgiven, and and then when we we do that, we continue our fellowship with God. And so I can't step onto the uh the athletic uh venues without walking with the Lord well and doing it in my own strength. I can't do that. So if there's things in my life that need to be addressed and changed or fixed or adjusted, whatever, just I gotta make sure I do that before I engage with with other people in the athletic world and their worlds.

Christian vs Non-Christian Athlete

SPEAKER_00

I was wondering if you'd be able to kind of explain what the difference is and in just the demeanor and just the character of uh an athlete that is centered in Christ and then an athlete who isn't centered in Christ, whether or not that's a different belief or just atheist. Um, I was wondering if you'd be able to kind of differentiate the two.

SPEAKER_01

Well, that's a good question. How much time do we have?

SPEAKER_00

We've got a while, we've got a while, yeah.

SPEAKER_01

I could go on for hours. Well, the the problem is because uh I think even for the Christian athlete, we all have a sin nature and we all kind of default the same way. And the the main difference is is who are you getting your affirmation from? I think for a lot, not just athletes, but everybody, they need to be affirmed and we're looking for everywhere we go. Can you affirm me? Can you show, tell me I'm good, whatever. An athlete that can drive them. They want to be somebody special, they want to be told there's somebody special. And and if they're good, as multi-athletes I'm working with, they've always been good at athletically, and they've always gotten that affirmation that drives them. But God created us for more than just ourselves, and He created us to glorify Him, not ourselves. And I remember um, okay, I'll tell you a story. Um, there was an Olympic speed skater, she was the first one to successfully defend an Olympic gold medal, and I was there for the first one in Nagano, Japan, and I asked her, What was going on when you won that gold medal? She says, Oh, it happened so fast. You know, I was on the stage and up on the podium, and then the anthem, and and and then it was and then it was over. And I said, What would what would it be like? Because she was the favorite favorite to repeat, and she did. I said, What would it be like if if as the world has given you all these accolades as the Olympic champion, you just take that and bump it up one step higher? People are glorifying you, but why don't you just glorify Jesus and worship him while you're on the top stage of that podium? So we had this meeting, and I was sharing these things with her, and don't know if it happened or not for her that way, but that's the goal for a Christian athlete is to not accept the glory because uh we're told in a verse in Isaiah that that God will not compete for for glory. Uh He He gets it, and as we compete as athletes, the that's that should be the goal to glorify Him. A lot of guys say that when the microphone's in their face sometimes, but it doesn't always ring, you don't think it rings true all the time because it's hard, because we're create, we we're created for that, but we kind of rob God of His glory. And Isaiah says, I will not be robbed of my glory. And so how how to do that is to have a dynamic love relationship with God, and it never ends, it's all you're always pursuing that because you're just if you want to glorify somebody, you gotta love them. If you want to make it make them look good, then you've got to just really cultivate a love relationship with God, and uh that's the main difference. But we we could go on and talk so many other ways.

The Athlete Identity Transition

SPEAKER_01

Um, for a lot of Christian athletes, once they begin to grow in their faith, the old affirmation-seeking motivation doesn't work anymore because they see it doesn't line up with who they are as a Christian athlete. So it's it's a struggle to make that transition, I think, into into that.

SPEAKER_00

What's the struggle specifically in in that transition?

SPEAKER_01

Well, their whole lives they've been driven by the desire to be somebody special in their sport, and now it's not about them, it's about God, and they know that and trust intrinsically they know that. I think a lot of people they kind of feel that uh like they get uncomfortable when people they get noticed a lot. Some people thrive on getting noticed a lot, but some people are uncomfortable with it, whether they know why or not. And that's because God's created us for him and his glory. And um, when when we begin to live our lives that way, it's really satisfying. But most people really don't get to that level of wanting to just glorify God, all they do, and there's always a competition inwardly going for us. I still compete, you know, I still do some ski mountaineering racing now, and and um uh I I still battle with with uh that whole aspect. Do I compete for God's glory or or my own? I need to die to that for sure. So I'm glad I still compete because I'm still wrestling. Some people, you know, some of our chaplains, they haven't competed in so long, they forget what that struggle's like.

When Sport Ends — Identity Crisis

SPEAKER_00

I was wondering if you'd be able to talk about where where athletes put their diet their identity and and just like their their fulfillment. You kind of touched on it a little bit. It seems that a lot of athletes, when either their careers are done or they're cut short, or they don't end up making it to the next level, they'll find themselves in this place that they're just lost, that they were either in high school, they were told by all their family that they're gonna do something great, they dream about it, and it gets cut short. They don't make it past high school, or their career gets cut short by by an injury, and then they just that one year of not being with the team, and you've grounding yourself in identity and in winning or being part of a team and performance, and it's stripped away from you, and it's just a completely different shift in their mentality, and they find themselves lost or getting to depression, they find themselves uh falling into addiction. Like I had that experience, and I I got into I started playing football for the first time in grade 10 and I fell in love with it. I felt like found all my fulfillment just being a team member, trying to be the best I can, trying to get like the affirmation from my coaches. And then COVID hit and that was stripped away from me, and I didn't know what to do, didn't have any of my brothers to hang out with. We weren't allowed to get stay in contact, and then I fell into addiction, and thankfully God has delivered me from that. But I just remember that that was such a huge part. It was but yeah, yeah. So I was just wondering if you'd be able to talk about just the uh the disconnect of having identity in you know, accolades and and praise and and and just performance as an athlete, and then how that can be taken away from people and then they find themselves lost. Would you be able to talk about that?

SPEAKER_01

Sure, you know, it's it's amazing how many athlete retirement stories involve suicidal thoughts. It's it's it's shocking, even. And I feel like as a chaplain, we need to be more involved in people in their retirement to help them through that. And and our our training center, they have programs along those lines. Um because it's a difficult transition because a lot of these guys, their whole identity from a you you started in grade 10, but a lot of these guys have started way earlier than that, and so their whole lives, it's all been about getting affirmation about being someone special in your sporting world, and then that's gone. And man, they can be lost, really lost just as a person, wondering where to go, what to do, and and not having that thing to fight for. There is a sprint coach that years ago came out with a blog and he he made the statement. He said, Everybody retires uh unfulfilled. You know, even if you're an Olympic champion, you say, Oh, I wish I could have been a World Cup champion. Or even if you're a World Cup champion, I wish I could have repeated or been an Olympic champion, you know. So no one really ends their career satisfied, but it's it's that hunger that keeps you going, that makes you successful as an athlete. But then all of a sudden, I remember years ago when Arnold Schwarzenegger, he was being interviewed. Uh, he was before he was he was transitioning from sport into at uh uh acting and then and then of course politics, but he had just transitioned out of sport and his at this time he was an actor, and they asked him, Do you miss it? And he said, Oh, I miss it. He says what I miss is the hunger. Because there's there's that hunger of doing something special in your sport and and hopefully as a Christian for the Lord. And then when that's gone, the hunger and the drive is is gone, and they can leave a person just so lost, I think. And uh I encourage a lot of athletes just to have a plan, you know, don't just quit and then decide figure out what you're gonna do next, be formulating your plan, what what comes next for you and and what can you be excited about next in your in your life. But um, yeah, uh it all gets back to, like you said, the identity. You know, if your identity is in your sport and that's taken away, who are you anymore? You you don't even know yourself. But if your identity is rooted in Christ, you're a child of God, and you're still a child of God, but you're just gonna express that differently. And hopefully along your path, you've got a good plan and how you're gonna express that child of godness uh in within within your life.

Gold Medal Depression

SPEAKER_00

There's this term I've I've heard uh it's called gold medal depression, where yeah, when somebody finally gets to the very top of whatever they're um, or specifically athletes, they are working their entire lives to get that gold medal, they get it, and they're on the stage, and then you know, as soon as their the day's done, it it's just this pressure that falls at like, you know, you were having all these expectations, ramping up these expectations that you know life will will peak and everything will be good once you get that gold medal and you get it, and then you just realize that you don't have anything else that's driving you to to a goal, or you kind of just realize that that goal was was was vain. But then when you see people when their identity is in Christ and they're looking uh their whole goal is just to glorify God, it seems like that's the difference is that that's not a goal that we can necessarily attain in this lifetime. When Jesus comes back, we can. And so that's um, it's not a yeah, like if your identity is rooted in Christ, and that can be obviously a struggle sometimes to have it all the time, and we all struggle with that. So it's interesting to see when I see athletes, even in their low points, when they're losing on the biggest stage, like in the Super Bowl, and they're glorifying God or they're winning and they're still glorifying it, and their demeanor doesn't change whether they win or or not. Uh, but it's tough uh for for athletes because again, you're just rooted that this is going to fulfill you, not even just by yourself uh from yourself, but from the whole world that as an athlete, this is the best thing that you can do. And then yeah, it's it's just uh um a tough shift for a lot of athletes. Is there something that you do you still get stay in contact with these athletes after they're um some yeah, and and tell me about that relationship?

SPEAKER_01

Well, I got a couple stories. What did you call it?

SPEAKER_00

Gold medal gold medal depression

Athletes Who Found God After Sport

SPEAKER_00

depression.

SPEAKER_01

Back in the 80s, there was a figure skater, got a gold medal, and a friend of mine got behind the scenes somehow. He had some contacts with ABC uh networking the States, and this gold medal figure skater had just won the medal, came off the ice, and was talking to my friend, and he's just he kept saying, Wow, I thought this would feel different. So even right there in the moment, he was already experiencing gold medal uh gold medal depression. Well, I've I've I've followed that particular athlete's story a little bit. He's he's found God and become a Christian since then, and pretty inspiring story. Oh, I another story. My first chaplaincy at Olympics was in Nagano in 1998, and before that I'd met a Latvian uh bobsled athlete, and he was pretty in Calgary when our bobsled track was working, and he was very open to God and spiritual things. And during the Olympics, he he came in and I found out he was a Christian, and I said, Well, tell me your story. And he told me he said for 17 years I had uh made it my goal to make it to the Olympics. I finally got there, and he said, and then this is shortly after the communist wall came down, so you know atheism and communism kind of went together. And he said, I got to my my Olympics after 17 years, it was the same sliders, same athletes, same sleds, similar track, and he it left him so empty. And he said, So I just went on a search and I I found I found God through through that as well. So sometimes those stories can turn turn out good in the end. When when in the in the depths of your uh loss of identity, you you realize it was in the wrong place. The proverbial ladder was leaning against the wrong building, and they they find the right one to

Joy as a Performance Edge

SPEAKER_01

lean it against.

SPEAKER_00

Is there any advice that you could give to that athlete on how to make your identity, ground your identity in Christ and to be fulfilled in Christ instead of accolades and and whatnot?

SPEAKER_01

I'll tell you another story. So with athletes in action, we have these um summer mission trips, and for a couple years I took some uh track and field tours over to uh Europe, and one year we had the defending US pole vaulting champion, and his story is incredible. But I was given uh the devotional that morning, and it's something about um joy. I I just was saying that you know it's really important to find joy in your relationship with God. Uh there's a sports ecologist I really like named Jim Lair, and he talked about joy as a motivator, you know, other motivations like anger, fear, uh, money, they have a bell-shaped curve, but but joy just goes off exponentially, just up. The more joy you have, the more physical, mental energy you get released. And so I share with these athletes that if we find joy in Christ, then it'll just unleash all kinds of power in your your your your life and your soul and your performance. And so this this athlete the defending the current Nancy Double pole than champion, he told us the story. He said, Yeah, I had a bad back and I could only do really two jumps. I I jumped high enough to qualify for the final round, and then when I thought it was high enough for me to win, I jumped and and was able to win. And he said that the the days that I get alone before competition and just get happy in God, just enjoy my relationship with Him, enjoy my salvation. When I go out and pole vault, it's like it's like it's like an extension of the joy that I'm feeling inside my heart. And the perfect, perfect example. You backed up everything I was just saying in my devotional this morning. So that's the key. That's how you do it. It's not it's not tricky, it's not some weird formula to just understand who you are in Christ and enjoy that. Enjoy how much you're loved by him and that you're gonna have a future for all eternity with him in heaven, and it's

Life Skills From a Chaplain

SPEAKER_01

gonna be awesome.

SPEAKER_00

I wanted to talk about some of the uh the life life tools that you talk about in the book. You said the Ford thing in regards to being a chaplain is to be able to help uh athletes develop the the life tools uh they may not get learned uh outside of your chaplaincy. Would you be able to kind of give us a few examples of the life tools that you help these athletes learn?

SPEAKER_01

Well, um I mentioned earlier conflict, that uh prof, when he walked into my class the very first day, he said, um God does some of his best work in conflict. I thought, oh, that's profound. Because as Canadians and myself, it's including, we tend to run from conflict. But there's an author named Pat Lencioni. He says he has a book called The Five Dysfunctions of a Team. The number one dysfunction of a team, not enough conflict. Like, whoa, what is that? But um what he's saying is that you get great minds together, let's say great athletes or great coaches, and they have different ideas on how to make that team great. Well, instead of just fighting it, they they work it out and they take the best of each idea and they come up with a great solution. But if we Canadianize it and run away from it and don't deal with it, we're coming up with a lesser solution than we could have had if we worked through and battled through our conflict. And so one of the things maybe I could try to help an athlete with is don't run from that conflict. Just learn how to deal with it.

What Makes a Great Chaplain

SPEAKER_00

In regards to the personality to be a successful uh chaplain, what type of personality or character do you need?

SPEAKER_01

I think God uses all kinds of people. There's a Peter Drucker is a leadership guru years ago, and he used to say that a good leader can can be any personality type. He said the possible exception might be the highly charismatic. Uh in our culture, we tend to elevate those guys the most because they're the loudest voice, but but anybody can be a good leader. And I think don't try to be somebody you're not, but just be who God made you to be. Like I'm more of a listener than I am a talker. Like one of our chaplains, he's he's he's a he's the chaplain for, I shouldn't I'll give it away, uh, but for Canada's NBA basketball team, but he's also the the announcer for the for the team for the home games. He's a very highly charismatic guy, and and just and he has a great job with with his chaplaincy. I could never be him because that is not me at all. I'm more of a listener, uh, more of a humble presence, I I think, kind of when I'm around. And and um, but that's just the way God's made me. That's the way he's made him, and it uses he's using both of us. Just be who God made

Origin of Field Guide to Athlete Chaplaincy

SPEAKER_01

you to be.

SPEAKER_00

There was uh something that you mentioned at the very beginning of your book was that when you first got into the role that they gave you a uh they didn't give you this, like you wrote this, and that you you talked about a rudimentary guide on how to be a chaplain and how it just wasn't enough information that you felt like there was it was missing, and that's what inspired you to write the book. What were you given when you first stepped into the role?

SPEAKER_01

Oh, I can't remember. It's 40 years ago. It was just uh it wasn't even a typed out book, it was more just uh uh several pages of a modus operanda, what to do. And it was more ministry focused. So let me give you the backstory on the book. I took a foray into the pastorate for four years. I was an associate pastor while still being a sport chaplain, and then I was nine years as a lead pastor while still being a sport chaplain, kind of a dual bivocational role. And then when I got to be a head pastor, all of a sudden I had to officiate weddings, uh, officiate funerals, do hospital visits, met navigate these tragic circumstances. And there's so many things going on that I had gotten no training for. And so I grabbed onto this uh pastor's uh minister's minister's guide, and it was written in 1961, the year after I was born. And at that time, there's several now, but that that was like the only resource. It's kind of out of date, but it's like that's all we had. So I just I leaned on that thing so heavily. But then I thought at the time, but a sport chaplains, we don't even have this. And so when COVID came along, um, I didn't want to just a lot of teams they had they had their bubble, their cocoon. They wouldn't let outside people in. Some some teams let me in uh if I get a test or do this or whatever, and and so some some would, some wouldn't. I didn't want to just sit around and do nothing. So I called up my friend who was a uh prophet that seminary and said, Hey, what's going on program-wise? Uh maybe I'll go back to school during during this time. And he said, Well, it's funny you should ask because four seminaries were putting together a program on on spiritual care. It's a one-year master's level certification program, and it's basically a chaplaincy program. I said, sign me up. So, well, we we haven't even released the information yet, but so I started taking classes and and went through this whole thing on spiritual care. And and um at the end of it, you have to do a practicum. I said, Well, guys, I've been doing this for 40 years. A practicum's not really gonna help me. So, but but but our field, we need a book like this. Let me write a book. Let me be the let let that be my practicum. So they said, Yeah, go ahead. That's where the book came from, and and that, and and that's where the knowledge came from. And and I've been getting, I gotta get the word out. Uh, I I mailed it, mailed it to several ministry leaders, like hockey ministries and athletes in action, and fellowship of Christian athletes, and a bunch of them in Europe, and said, Hey, it's out here now. And there are a couple schools in the U.S. that have programs um for sport chaplains. See, Liberty is one of them, and Baylor is another one. And a friend of mine is running that Baylor program, he told me, says, Steve, we've got all kinds of theoretical um books and papers on sport, faith, but we don't have anything practical. It says your book will fill that that hole for the practical. And I wanted to make it so it's just easy to use, you know, it's predictable, laid-out format where you look up the track uh chapter on tragedy, and what do I do? And just there's the bullet list, go through it. This is what I do. And if I'm officiating a funeral, what do I do? There's the bullet list, it tells you how to do it. So it starts with a story. Each chapter has a story, kind of kind of give you a picture of what it would look

The Chapter He Almost Left Out

SPEAKER_01

like.

SPEAKER_00

Is there anything now uh that you would is there a chapter that you would add if you were to revise the book or any chapters that you would update now that it's been out for a while?

SPEAKER_01

I I I almost left out the chapter on discipleship. The the chaplain is a disciple maker. And and that one, the manuscript was in, and my thing had been created, and I started to work on the book format. And I was at hockey practice one day, just exercising the chapter on power of presence, and and then the Holy Spirit knocked me on the head and said, Steve, you don't have a chapter on mentoring and being a disciple maker. It's like, oh yeah, that's probably the most important chapter. So I went home and started writing that particular chapter. And and uh that, like I said, that would probably end up being my my longest uh chapter of the book. As far as any others that I would add, that's a good question. Let me think about that

What Athletes in Action Does

SPEAKER_01

one.

SPEAKER_00

Yeah, of course. I do have another question. You talked about athletes in action a lot. I was wondering if you'd be able, I've I've heard about the the organization. I understand there's a lot of professional teams are associated with that. What do the athletes in action do and what's your role in that organization?

SPEAKER_01

So in Canada, Athletes in Action, we provide sport chaplains for all the CFL football teams and I'm pretty sure all the NHL hockey teams and our lone NBA team. And then at the major universities, we have chaplains. Athletes in Action for many years has been more uh ministry focused uh to make disciples for Christ. And so the training is kind of that way, but we present ourselves as as chaplains and we operate as chaplains, more so at the professional level, a little less, maybe still more ministry at the university level. Um but but um that's why we we need my my guidebook because we're providing these other services besides just um helping a person to grow in their in their faith. But we're also there to to help be at that neutral listening year and helping the tragedy and and things like that. So so our role has changed, our culture's changed, and our role within that culture has changed as well to be more an encompassing chaplain instead of just the the spiritual pastoral

Chaplaincy in the US vs Canada

SPEAKER_01

kind of person.

SPEAKER_00

And so you've had experience being a chaplain both in the states and in Canada. Would you say is there any difference, especially with the different cultures? Has that role ever had to shift or anything like that between the the two countries?

SPEAKER_01

Yeah, I mean I've been in Canada for over 30 years. So the culture in the US has changed since I've come up here. But when I left, I can't tell you, like our foot our football team, we would recruit heavily in the south, and and so many guys come up with it, yeah, my mama would be happy I'm involved with this. You know, I don't know if the single parent home or the the the mom was the spiritual person of the home or what, but but there's there's more for sure, especially in the southern US, there was more of a spiritual mooring than there was when I came up to Canada. And for sure, um culturally in the US at that time, like I said 30 years ago, um the religion and and spirituality was part of the culture, and and so there's a lot of gray areas whether a person was really a person following God or not. In Canada is black and white, either you were or you weren't. And I thought I found that refreshing when I first came up here. It's like, yeah, like they they know. And and since then, we've become a very post-Christian culture, and so it's almost like pursuing God is almost novel, it's not like acceptable, an old hat, and something we need to break away from. It's more, hey, my parents didn't tell me about this, and I'd I'd like to figure out what this is. This looks kind of interesting and kind of uh inviting. So it's interesting how even since I've been here, our culture here

Is Your Faith Where It Needs to Be?

SPEAKER_01

has changed as well.

SPEAKER_00

There's a couple questions I ask every guest at the end, and the first two I would like you to just answer a simple yes and no, and then the last one like you to elaborate. So the first one is is your relationship with Christ where you want it to be right now? No, no, and is your relationship with Christ where Christ wants it to be? No. Why is that? Why why the no, the hard no on both answers?

SPEAKER_01

I've always envisioned myself being a person of prayer, and and uh you know, in sport we visualize the end result, what we want to be, and then and then we visualize how to get there. And so spiritually, I I have a vision of who I want to be, and uh it's a person that uh like in the old testament, the book of Daniel, what was the Daniel was a God used him so incredibly in so many incredible ways. But what was Daniel's secret sauce? Three times a day, he would open up his window towards Jerusalem and pray three times a day. That's what ended up ended him up in the lion's den. They wanted to trap him up, and that's what they got him on. And I thought, you know what? I I call it the Daniel factor three times a day, just spend time praying. I would love to be like that. And I'm not there yet, but also just uh the other part of my my imagery, my spiritual imagery, when you're a person of of of great prayer, nothing will rattle you because you've spent time so much time interacting with the savior that you know he's in control and you surrender to everything as you've been praying, and you're you're a person of peace, you're a person of joy, and and you're a person that, like I said, doesn't get rattled. And and I I I'm not there yet, but that's the path I'm trying to go down.

SPEAKER_00

What's personally stopping you from being there right now?

SPEAKER_01

I think our sin nature is one of those things, you know, and just uh the tyranny of the urgent and we get attractive. I live I live in Canmore, which is in the Rocky Mountains, the most awesome playground uh in the world, and it's it's a blessing that God's given me health and I can mountain bike and run and ski and do all these things, but I want to take pleasure in the giver of the gifts, not the gifts themselves. And I find a real struggle living in Canmore because the gifts are so wonderful there. So you struggle, like, okay, I could spend more time in prayer or I could spend a few more minutes riding my mountain bike today. So that that's one of the things that they told me about. It's just this in nature, knowing what gives me the most satisfaction. You know, I know that I'll be satisfied when I spend time in prayer like that. Um, but it's always a co it's a constant

Olympics and the Dying Chaplaincy

SPEAKER_01

wrestle.

SPEAKER_00

That's a good answer. Is there anything that you feel like we should have talked about in regards to just the the sports industry or being a chaplain? Anything that you feel like we we should have talked about?

SPEAKER_01

Well, let me just think the Olympics are happening this this week. The opening ceremonies are just a few days from from when we're meeting here. And I've been a coach at Olympics, I've been a chaplain at Olympics, I've been a volunteer at this Canadian Olympic Committee at Olympics. I've done so many things, so I've seen a lot happens at the Olympics. When my when my sport of ski mountaineering was thinking about trying to make an Olympic bid probably 15 years ago, I wasn't even so sure I wanted that to happen because Olympic inclusion kind of corrupts sports. There's money, there's fame, and and it changes sports. Like my sport of ski mountaineering, the real sport is you you climb a mountain and you come bombing down a mountain, and it's amazing. And the and the Olympic version is this we're gonna go a little bit up the downhill, a little bit down the downhill. It's made for TV. And it's kind of wrecking the sport in a way. But I think in a spiritual sense, the Olympics like I've been to part of the Olympics where we had a great chaplaincy center. In the 90s, when the Soviet empire was was ending, a lot of these uh ex-Soviet athletes from different countries are coming in and we're having amazing spiritual times. They're exploring for the first time what it's like not to be an atheist, and it was so exciting. But now I see the IOC is kind of cutting down on the chaplaincy, and even though it's the most used service in the village, they keep records. You know, every every venue, if a person comes in, you keep a record so they can see that it's really used uh by the athletes and it's really popular. But the but I don't even think there is a chaplaincy at this at this Olympics. You know, what if something happens? And in 2010, we had a fatality in in the Louis, you know, and and that chaplaincy center was busy for at least a week. Athletes are coming in. I had one coach bringing his whole team, he said, My team is scared to go down the track now. Can I bring him in to the chapel center? You guys just pray for him or do something? They're like, Yeah, bring him in, you know. So I think I forget what the original question he was, it started going off, but um that's one thing I'd like to see changing in the sport world. It's just people have spiritual needs and they need to be they need to be addressed.

SPEAKER_00

That is a shame. I but I hope that that changes. I know that God can can move in that. Steve, thank you so much for for taking your time to to just meet and share your story, share your experiences as uh as a chaplain. And you live don't live in Calgary, so it's even farther. So I I again I just appreciate you have been praying for this for a while, and just my own interest uh as an athlete and uh in the sports industry. I just I appreciate a lot and everything

Steve's Prayer Request

SPEAKER_00

that you were able to share. Um, is there anything I can be praying for you or the audience can be praying for you at this time?

SPEAKER_01

Well, Keisha, there's four Olympic villages at this Olympics, and in three of them, I've got three really solid, mature Christian athletes that are are doing ministry already. And so they got Bible studies in hand, and it's just like I don't hate, I really don't even have to go because they're going for me. They're the athletes that are inside and uh just be praying for those guys to lead the to make the faith, the faith lead the faith charge.

SPEAKER_00

I will thank you, thank you, Steve. Awesome. Thank you guys for joining uh our episode. Um, I pray that today, especially if you're an athlete, that it may that it was just a step or a C planted for you guys to commit yourself to Christ to ground your identity in Christ. Also, if you're interested, I'd recommend definitely reading Steve's book, Field Guide to Athlete Chaplaincy, for anyone that's interested in having a career in chaplaincy or just an athlete uh or just a good uh good read as well. Thank you for watching. And until next time, stay bold and stay blessed.