Christian Twins on Identity, Basketball, Fashion, and Sales

What happens when two pastors' kids turn pro at basketball, modeling, and door-to-door sales — and try to keep Christ at the center of all of it?

In Episode 16, identical twins Sam and Josh Jean walk through every part of who they are — the testimony of growing up in a pastor's home in Kamloops, BC, the basketball idol that almost cost them their faith, the modeling career that taught them what the world's affirmation is actually worth, and the sales mindset that lets them sleep at night whether the paycheck is huge or zero.

You'll hear Sam confess the double life he lived as a "real Christian" partying with his college basketball team. Josh shares the prayer he prayed asking God to injure him — and how God answered it differently than he expected. They break down why working hard as a Christian athlete isn't about ego, why "mist in front of you" is the strongest place to demonstrate faith, and why every Christian creative should be breaking into industries the church usually retreats from.

This conversation goes deep on identity, idols, stewardship of money, the weakness God uses on purpose, and what it actually means to be sharpened by someone closer to you than anyone else.

If you've ever wondered whether your faith is your own — or just inherited — this episode is for you.

🎙️ CONNECT WITH SAM & JOSH:
Instagram (Sam): https://www.instagram.com/samj_17
Instagram (Josh): https://www.instagram.com/josh_jean

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Transcript

Trailer

SPEAKER_01 0:00

If you seek attention from the world, it'll destroy you because you will always want more. So I'm like, yo, if there's Christians hearing this that want to go into fashion and modeling, like break into that industry and make it all about Christ. If I died today, what's the worst thing that happened to me? I could die out there. I'd be at home with my savior. The fact that I'm 6'3, played basketball, had a successful sales job, like that stuff doesn't matter. It's completely meaningless. My identity is in Christ. When you're driving and it's like mist in front of you, you don't know where you're going, but you just have faith that God's taking you somewhere. That's when you can demonstrate your faith the strongest.

Meet Sam & Josh Jean

SPEAKER_00 0:30

Hey guys, welcome back to another episode of Untuck Your Cross. And today I have two guests for the first time, Sam and Josh Jean. Thank you so much for being on the podcast, guys. Awesome. Um you guys can talk.

SPEAKER_01 0:43

Thank you for having us, bro.

SPEAKER_00 0:44

We're excited to be here. I'm I'm excited. This will be my first time interviewing two people. Um, so just for a recap of how how we met, it was through uh Joshua Bojo. Uh we both uh he he let me know he was working with you guys. He told me that right off the bat. He's like, hey guy, uh hey Dennis, uh, these two guys are great guys. Like you should definitely have them on the podcast. They're great. He said that you guys were really solid in your faith and he's like good, good business-minded guys. And I was like, that's exactly who I want our interview. And so then he told me about your guys' uh charity event, the uh the basketball event, and then I booked that day off to make sure I'd be able to there and support you guys and gave me your contacts, and then here we are today. Um yeah, so again, thank you so much for being here. And uh to first off, I'd like to hear um your guys' testimonies, just exactly how God has shaped you. So, Josh, if you want to start, where did your journey with God exactly start? Yeah, Sam start. Yeah, Sam, yeah, Sam, Sam, if you'd like to start, yeah.

Sam's Testimony — The Double Life

SPEAKER_01 1:43

Yeah, I could totally start. And I just want to say, bro, meeting you was sweet because when we did that event and we did that kind of gospel dodgeball event, um, community event, we uh we had friends and stuff who came out and helped, and it was sweet. But um when you showed up, it was amazing, bro. You were like my right-hand man there doing all like the hard stuff. And I was like, bro, without you, I would have been so stressed out. So, and it was my first time meeting you, and I was like, this guy's this guy's sick. Why is he helping us so so much? Um, so thank you. So we're so so thankful for that. But um, yeah, just to share my story. We uh Josh and I we grew up in British Columbia, a little place called Camloose, BC, and we grew up as pastors' kids, and so we were always exposed to the gospel, always exposed to the word of God. Grew up in church. Going to church on Sunday wasn't an option. It was dad's preaching, so for for sure we're gonna be there. Um, but um I I've never felt I've never felt in my life like a um separation from God as if I wasn't part of his kingdom. I've always felt like a child of God. There wasn't there isn't a part of my life where I can look back and be like, okay, here's definitely where I was walking with the world. But um I feel like in my testimony, I've constantly throughout my life been growing and growing closer to know who God is and to understand who God is. And so um it's been going on my whole life and just changing and shifting. And there's moments, there's like specific moments in time where I can remember, like, okay, I was, I was, I got baptized at 14. 14, I was like, man, I gotta start pursuing the Lord more. Like, I gotta start reading my Bible more. I had this like kind of conviction, this feeling of like, dude, I don't do enough. I don't do enough for God as if as if I could do anything for God. But um, or I could as if I could do anything to to uh put myself in a better position of oh once I do all this stuff, then I'll be a better Christian. Kind of that young mindset. And then um when it's funny because even after having that and having followed God for like my whole life and been in the church my whole life, like there was times where I was like fully, fully just in the world, fully living for myself, fully living for fun, and just uh especially I can think of when I was like 17, 18, 19, um started to started to go out with my friends, started to go put to parties and stuff like that. Um I was on a basketball team, and there ever the thing that my basketball team did uh was on Saturday, everybody would party together. And like the first few times I was like, oh man, like I'm just I'm just gonna be here, but I won't do the same things. And then eventually it's like, well, they're playing drinking games. So let me just get into like a drinking game, it's just for the drinking game, and then you're drinking with the guys, and this whole time it was funny because I grew up as such a an almost egotistical Christian, or I saw myself as such a good Christian. I was like, I dude, I know the word of God so well. I'm one of the real Christians, like I really, I really know God. And then that time of my life, I did all the same sins that I used to judge people for, all the same stuff. And um, yeah, I was still, still, even in that time, still super prideful, still thinking I'm a great Christian. And that's the first time in my life, too, where I really saw that I was living a double lifestyle, and I felt this like disconnect of oh shoot, like I'm I'm pretending to be a different person uh with some people versus with other people, and that's crazy. Um, and so I was in that lifestyle. I'm going towards that, and uh all of a sudden I got cut from my basketball team um because I was too skinny, like uh just sort of kind of a random. I was like, oh wow, there's a there's uh there's some skinny, other skinny guys in the team. I was like, okay, coach. Um and then I had to look for a new basketball team. I'd look for a new school, so I was like, I gotta look for a new university, and I'm looking for a bunch of different schools, and I applied for three different ones, and one of those schools was the school called the Masters University in California, an amazing, super, like uh super amazing school uh that stands for Christ in Scripture. And it kind of was like a throw it in the bucket, kind of just okay, I'll apply for that school, but I probably won't get in. Tuition's crazy, I probably won't be able to go there. But um somehow that was the only school that actually was responding and getting back with me. And I was doing a job where I was working up north and I had like barely any Wi-Fi. So I'd have like 30 minutes of Wi-Fi a day that was super slow and super hard to use, and I'd be trying to send emails and I couldn't. And that was the only school that was like, Hey, we'll help you build the courses. The the advisors like uh her name was Lydia Fowler, amazing lady, just a just a random blessing for that season. And she was like, I'll figure this out for you. And she figured out everything, got my courses selected, sent me my financial aid and everything. I was like, well, let me just go to the school and I'll take out loans this year. And if it sucks, I can drop school for a year and work to pay it off. And that was kind of my idea. And then I took out the loans, I went there, and my first week, I was just like blown away. Oh my goodness. I was sitting with friends, I was I'd never had Christian friends, and I was sitting with guys my age and girls my age and teachers, and we all were just praying. And I like remembered looking up while we were praying and looking around, being like, What in the world? Like, why are these these are other people like my age and other Christian people just praying at school, like we're at university, and I thought, Whoa, that's that's wild. And then I met my friends who had like true convictions and strong convictions in the word, and I'd be saying something I did in my life just talking, and my buddy'd be like, bro, that's sin. I was like, what that? That's not even bad. He's like, No, that's sin, bro. And it was like, dang. And so I had friends who would convict me. I met guys with like real convictions, and from that point on, I just grew and grew, grew to, I'm like, okay, I want to understand who God is more. I had friends who could quote scripture, and and I thought that was amazing. They loved it enough, they loved God enough to be able to quote and devote it to heart. And so uh going to that school completely changed me and changed my desires, where I just wanted to understand who God was. Like, I think as believers, we're like, oh, I love God, but I wanted to know who the God was that I claimed to love, and I wanted to know him more and more. And um that was like the the biggest shift in my walk with the Lord was going to that school, meeting those guys around me. And I started reading my Bible more and doing it out of a sense of like just wanting to know who God is. And um yeah, that's what really grew me into the person that I am today, and that's the walk that I'm still on right now, is every day trying to grow to know who God is more and more.

SPEAKER_00 7:54

Amen. I I think that just shows you the importance of having other Christians around in your life. Like a lot of people will not want to go to church or be okay with just having um only secular friends, and they're not again. I I I'm a firm believer that God is able to speak through other Christians. And like he said, that um when there's more than two, I'm in your myths, like God will be there. And so if you're just like, if you're trying to go through your walk with life with and with Christ alone, like you're closing off that opportunity for God to be able to be talking to you and helping um your friends to discern and and convict you. Um I think a good friend is somebody who's able to call you out on it. I struggle sometimes where it's like my friends are going through some stuff, and I'm worried that if I call them out in a righteous and loving way, that they'll think negatively of me or they want to be won't be my wouldn't want to be my friends. And that's something that I always struggle struggle with. And but yeah, but I'm glad that you were able to, because that's in anybody's faith, having friends around you that are convicted and uh in the word is going to be what's going to excel you in your relationship with

2 Corinthians 12:15 — Loving Like Christ

SPEAKER_00 9:02

uh with Christ.

SPEAKER_01 9:02

So one of my favorite, one of my favorite verses is uh uh 2 Corinthians 12 15. And uh Paul writes in that uh passage, he says, Um, and I'll very gladly spend and be fully spent for your souls, even though the more abundantly I love you, the less I'm loved. And I love that verse because I think as believers, our life that's like that's like such a this is gonna be my Christian life. I'm gonna love people, I'm gonna love them so abundantly, and even though I'm loving them so abundantly, it might cause them to love me less. And that's okay, because I'm not loving them for any way that they're gonna treat me in response. I'm just loving them to love them, and because that's who Christ calls me to do. So I I just love that verse. 2 Corinthians 12, 15. Um and I think about that for like my friendships and your friendships too. Of dude, I will I'll very gladly spend for your souls, even if you even if I love you more and you love me less, that's okay.

SPEAKER_00 9:56

I didn't even know that that verse was there. Like uh I've read Corinthians before, but that's that's a powerful one. Yeah, thank you for that. Yeah. Now, Josh, would you be able to share your your testimony? How did where was your walk with Christ

Josh's Testimony — Evidence vs Faith

SPEAKER_00 10:07

start?

SPEAKER_01 10:07

Yeah, I feel like um it's a lot shorter than Sam's. Um praise God. Grace of God. Um uh yeah, I grew up in the Christian household. Um, obviously, same household as Sam. Our dad's the pastor, and so I always believed, like I never really questioned whether God was real or not. But my faith definitely matured and became my own when I was around 17. Because before then, I was just a little bit naive and I didn't understand faith and belief. And I thought true faith had to be like completely blind, like no evidence. If there's evidence, then it wasn't faith, which like in a sense is true, but there's actual evidence for Christianity that makes us believers. If we didn't have the evidence of Christ and the history, it wouldn't we wouldn't believe, obviously, right? If we didn't know that it was actually true that it happened. Um, and so when I was 17, I started asking more questions. And I also think it was by the grace of God that I didn't really talk to my dad a lot about my problems or about things that I was thinking when I was struggling, because then I could figure it out for myself and kind of have my own faith instead of just all being based on our dad, who's a pastor's belief. Because it's really easy to just do that, to lean on people that are smarter, more qualified. I just maybe in my arrogance didn't talk to my parents, even though I had a great relationship with my parents, very loving. Um, and so yeah, I just started asking more questions, doing more research, and really solidifying my faith before going to college. And it became um yeah, something that I was wanted to dedicate my life to. Um, whereas before I was like, oh, if I see evidence, like I'm online, I see a YouTube video, it was like evidence for Christianity, I'm like, oh, I can't watch it, it'll ruin my faith. And then once I actually started to be like, no, I the evidence of the world points to the truth in the faith, but they're not two different things. Um, it just was so much easier to stand behind it because uh we're not standing on a faith that's empty or that's uh lacks evidence, lacks uh intellect, it's actually the truth. Um so yeah. That's interesting.

SPEAKER_00 12:16

I've never s uh heard of that where you like people have avoided evidence, but I can understand that where um yeah, like if like again, having evidence or or proof is what sometimes people look for. Evidence and proof is different. People look for proof. Um, and if you have proof, then there's no um there's nothing that you're because faith means like you're not a hundred percent certain, but you just you you still believe that there's and and hope in in in in Jesus. And but I I was like that as well. Like I was I was raised Christian my entire life, always believed that Christ existed the way the universe was created. Like my dad definitely raised me in more of a kind of evidence-based Christianity where it was a lot of like debates with like atheists, like this is why the universe and why the Bible fits into explaining how the world went about. Uh, but that relationship and uh it being my own faith wasn't something until around that yeah, well, I wouldn't say it wasn't until about three, four years ago that I actually started looking into it and be like, is it my own faith or is it something that I just like adopted from my parents? And a lot of people are looking for that evidence, and a lot of people sometimes I think would also avoid, especially if you don't believe in in Christianity, like you want to avoid that evidence, or you're just like so blocked away that you just don't want to listen to the truth because it's just going to I found it a lot of people just don't want to change their lifestyles that there may be like reliable evidence, but if that if they believe that evidence, then that means that they have to make an actual decision, an actual change, and people like don't want to do that at all, and it's scary for them. Yeah, yeah.

The Friend Who Got Saved

SPEAKER_01 13:53

It's literally a Bible verse that says they suppress the truth and unrighteousness. Yeah, and I had a friend, and it was crazy because um uh there was a group of guys I was hanging out with, and I invited them all to church, and there was like 15 guys. All of them were like, Yeah, bro, that sounds awesome. Like, I'm down, even though not a lot of them are believers. And then one of them, uh, he just looked at me and he was like, Bro, like, no, this is so weird. I'm not like I'm just gonna be straight up with you. Like, if I didn't stop that all, that's all weird to me. I was like, Okay, bro, no problem. Like, thanks for your honesty. Um, and then later we were together, and it was just the two of us, and he started asking me questions randomly, like weeks later, about the faith. And um, simple questions. Anybody could have answered them, they were a believer for a while. And I was like, Oh, yeah, just this. Then he asked me another one. I'm like, Oh yeah, like this. And I wish I remembered what those questions were, but I don't. That would have been better for the story. Um, but it wasn't really about that. Um and he heard his answers, he's like, bro, I uh you convinced me. And I told him, I'm like, bro, I can't convince you it's the Holy Spirit moving, because those were really basic questions. Like that wasn't anything that deep. Um and he was like, No, you convinced me, bro. Like this is true. And then he started bringing up his sins. So he he said, What about this? What about this? What about this? Is this sinful? Um and I was like, Yeah, bro, all that stuff it's sin. And I knew he was being convicted by the Holy Spirit. And then he was like, Why don't more people believe this? And he didn't want to change his lifestyle. He was like, This is this stuff's in. He's like, Oh, I don't want to turn away from that. I was like, Yeah, well, that's like the reality is that um we come to Christ and crucify ourselves. And he he said, Um, bro, why doesn't everybody believe this if this is so simple? And I'm like, the same reason you don't, because you don't want to turn away from this, this, this, this. And it's just the truth. People know that it's true, but they suppress it in their unrighteousness.

SPEAKER_00 15:42

Yeah, and um like what you said about like the um like it's the Holy Spirit, only only him or through him are we able to actually accept the truth and actually like have our eyes opened. And um, so all we can do for those type of friends is just pray that the Holy Spirit reveals his truth. Um, but it's not our job. I think a lot of people will get in in their heads where I had get conversations where it's like that conversations didn't go well enough. I didn't answer his questions about Christianity well enough, where now he's going to hell because of me. And it's like realistically, that's not not the case. Like um, it's not gonna be an imperfect person's uh responsibility why somebody else comes to Christ or not. Like that's the Holy Spirit, whether or not um He He lets that person convicted, uh gets convicted, and all we can do is pray and be willing to plant seeds. Like that's our job is just to plant seeds, and then God just does the rest of that and He'll harvest it and He'll grow it. Uh but it can definitely be Um Yeah, again, that I had a hard time as well. Like I believed in Christ and then I didn't want to go to church because everything I was doing like didn't reflect my belief and I didn't want to be convicted or anything like that. And a lot of people I think are like that as well, where it just takes too much effort to go and get to clean yourself up, or that you don't want to give up your addictions and stuff like that. And that's just the reality a lot of people are in today.

SPEAKER_01 17:06

What uh for you, what changed that made you like from that position of I don't want to be convicted, I don't want to be around these people to now someone who is serving in your church, you're a leader in your church, what changed for you to want to have that conviction and want to have that around you?

SPEAKER_00 17:24

I think I I didn't get baptized for the longest time because I thought that I needed um to essentially like promise that once I touch that water, I'm never sinning again. That's that's that's that's what I understand.

SPEAKER_02 17:36

Yeah, that's have you sinned since 100%.

SPEAKER_00 17:40

Um I 100% since then. But that's what I I believed in. And I was like, I can't make that promise until like I'm married, I have a wife, and then all these temptations are in the door anymore. Realistically, those temptations are still going to be there once you get married, but that was my head. Like um, again, with like hookup culture and like addictions and like the friends I was surrounded with. I was like, there's no way I'm trusting myself not to fall into this. There's no way I'm gonna do that. And so I'm not gonna make that promise. Like, God willing, I'm I'm still alive to make that promise later on. And I wasn't, and I was banking that I'd have more days to actually profess my faith uh in Jesus. Uh, but none of us are promised that. But that's not the mindset that I walked around with. And so it wasn't until um it was uh a bad breakup that I had ended up just having this like moment in my in my room where um I was just screaming at life, like, God, why is it that um you didn't let this relationship uh like you know work out? Why didn't she love me unconditionally when I loved her unconditionally? All that I was just like yelling at the world, her, him, everything. And it just felt like the sharpest idea that I just understood it as the like um um like God talking to me and saying, like, you've been doing that your entire life, where you only love me can uh conditionally, like on whether or not like things are going well or you're in a bad rut and you need me, and it's not like a relationship that you have. And then my buddy asked invited me to church, kept on saying no, finally went, and then um it was this uh foyer, uh, there's a poster in the foyer saying, like, come to me, all of you who are weak and heavy burden, and I'll give you rest. And I was like, that's like exactly how I'm feeling, like this, just like the weight of the world of everything I'm going through emotionally with my family, with relationships, with like my addictions, and I just like haven't looked back since. But I was still in those addictions for a while. And it wasn't until I just realized that I was like, why is it that I'm struggling with my relationship with God? Why is it that I feel like I can't hear him or can't discern what to do in my life? And then I realized that it was because I had all these addictions in my life, and just because out of love, that like I kept on learning more about how much God loved me and how I wanted to love him in return the way that he um deserves to be, um, and have that relationship that he wants with me, then I he was just softening my heart. Some of them were really hard, like something traumatic happened, and then that addiction went away, and some of them were more gradual. Um, but I yeah, I think it was just purely because I just wanted to be closer to him, and I just realized all these things were just getting in the way, and my relationship with him was just more important, and I was just being honest with my predicament. So um praise God. Yeah,

Matthew 5:8 — "I Want to See God"

SPEAKER_00 20:25

praise God for that.

SPEAKER_01 20:25

Yeah, there's another verse that I thought of when you're saying that too, and it kind of shifts the at least for me in my life, it shifts like the idea of what I'm doing and like the goal behind what I'm doing, but it's Matthew 5.8, and it says it's one of the Beatitudes and it says, Blessed are the pure in heart, for they shall see God. And sometimes it's like, why, why, why would we why would we strive for things like purity in in our life? And it's like, dude, I want to see God. I want to be able to see God because I love him so much. And if I had um, if I had a um I don't know, an analogy I'm thinking of right now, is you have someone you love so so much, like my brother, and he says, like, dude, you we can hang out and like we can you could let's let's hang out, let's spend time with each other, but we can only hang out if you're not doing X, Y, and Z or something like that. Because I just don't want to be around those things. Be like, oh bro, I love you so much. I can easily stop doing this. It's easy to get rid of this. This is nothing compared to spending the time with you, and that's almost um how we can see some of our sin separates us from God. And I want to be in close relationship with God. Um not because I'm afraid of God's wrath. I I'm so grateful that I've been saved from his wrath, that I no longer have any judgment, that he separated my sins as far as east as to west, that there is no condemnation for those who believe. Like that is such a gift, but I just want to be able to experience more of God. I want to be able to see him. And so that was that's my um that's what I've been telling myself in my life all the time. Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 21:50

No, yeah, it's yeah, and that's my prayer for anybody watching here and getting out of this conversation is to be able to um feel righteous. Just conviction, but then also just not stay in that combination, condemnation, um, and be you know again, start praying to God that they'd be able to get those things that are in the way of their relationship with Him out of their um out of the way so they can grow in their

The Lie About Christians Being Perfect

SPEAKER_00 22:14

relationship.

SPEAKER_01 22:14

I love that story too that you told, because the lie that the world's told about Christians is that one, they're a bunch of perfect people and we're not. It's blessed are the weary and the brokenhearted.

unknown 22:27

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 22:27

Like that's who it's for. That's why we're believers, not because we're perfect, it's because God loved us. It says when we were yet sinners, he loved us and died for us. And then um, even though you weren't perfect, that's the other lie is that you have to be perfect to then show up and go to church and wear a nice suit. It's like, no, God loved us while we were in our sin, he plucked us out of it, he's not asking us to be perfect now. Um but the deeper we fall in love with him and the more we conform to Christ, our affections just change. Um my affections just have changed. Like there's certain sins I didn't think I'd be able to let go of. And I the more I've longer I've walked with Christ and the deeper our relationships come, I just stopped liking them. They just I just my affections changed, and it's all by his grace. And I'm not so confident in my faith because I know that I'm gonna be so disciplined that I'm gonna walk away from all these things that are wrong and make the right decision. I'm confident in it because it says he is the author and the perfecter of my faith. So I can trust in him that he's the one that began it, I didn't even begin it, and that he's the one that's gonna perfect it throughout our relationship because he's the faithful one, and he gave me the gift of faith so that I could have that relationship with him. But I hinge my whole life on him and what he did on the cross and not on myself.

Basketball and the Athlete's Idol

SPEAKER_00 23:39

Amen. Yeah, if if it was um if it was up to us for us to be able to sustain our faith and keep away from their those addictions, like we would have fallen away. Like there's there's no way there's there's too many temptations, there are too many doubts that we all face that um if it was fully up to us to be able to like stay in that in it within our faith, like all of us would have fallen away. So praise be to God that yeah, like he um like he's going to complete the the the good work that he started in us, and I'm looking forward to that day for all of us. Um one of the things I wanted to talk about was uh I I love having athletes, uh Christian athletes on this podcast. And I know you've met some of them, you've met King um before. Uh he's uh an amazing, uh amazing guy who's just on fire for the Lord, and he takes and he uh puts that into football. And so I know that you guys both played basketball. And so I'm wondering with you guys being raised in the faith, what has your guys' been experienced in regards to playing basketball and how that worked with your faith? Do you feel like it got in the way of your relationship with God? Do you think that your relationship with God strengthened your, you know, your demeanor on the court? What was your guys' experience like? If Joshua, you could start?

SPEAKER_01 24:56

Yeah, um, I loved playing basketball. I was always planning on being a professional basketball player. And um, I never found I got humbled a lot throughout my basketball journey, and it made it easier to not get so cocky and let it um take away from my faith because um whenever I started to feel like I was doing good and I'm just becoming a really good basketball player, I'd get injured and then I'd sit on the bench and watching and realizing that I was powerless to control even the simplest things like getting injured and not even being able to play. I realized that okay, this is fully dependent on God, and He's the one that's deciding how far I'll go in basketball. And um yeah, I just always saw it as like a ministry, and I really felt called to play basketball. And I was when I was training, I remember I was getting up at 5 a.m. every morning when I went to um college in Red Deer for a bit. That was like the hardest ever worked before in my college, and I went to three colleges just for context. I went to Trinity Western University, um, I went to Red Deer College, and then I went to Lethbridge University. At Trinity, I wasn't very serious, was just having fun with all my new friends. Um at Red Deer, I was extremely disciplined, and the only reason that I felt like I could be so disciplined was because I felt so confident that when I was training at 5 a.m. every morning, that it was the best way to honor God at that time. I knew without a doubt that was what God wanted me to do at that time. And then I moved to Lethbridge, and it was weird because I thought that was just gonna keep going, I was gonna just get more serious until I was a professional. And um, it didn't when I got to Lethbridge, all of a sudden that drive and that discipline, I just felt like it left, and it was kind of weird for me. It was a weird mental challenge. Um, but I met people there, and actually, one of the guys I was talking about, the guy that had that conversation about faith, I met him at in Lethbridge, and when I met him, he ended up converting, and I felt as though he was the reason that I was playing basketball all that time, was just to be in a position to answer those questions, and I was what it was for, then it was all worth it. All those 5 a.m.'s if it was just to meet someone and be able to um spread the faith through my example, which was terrible. Like I'm not a very good example most of the time, but somehow God could use me as weakest vessel, as an instrument to bring someone to the faith, then it's done. Like that's amazing.

Josh's Prayer — "Take My Legs"

SPEAKER_00 27:21

All glory to God. Amen. What uh and so you mentioned uh like going through injuries and how that uh was setting you back. Were you bitter at God at any any of those points? Or what's it what was stopping you from being bitter? A lot of athletes would, and whether or not they blame life, themselves, God, like it's it's a tough situation to be in as an athlete. Yeah, um not really.

SPEAKER_01 27:45

I don't really remember being bitter through the injuries. When I graduated high school, I quit basketball for a year, and I remember being better then. I was just working. Um, I felt as though basketball wasn't actually a very solid plan, it didn't make logical sense to try and pursue being a professional basketball player. And so I was very aware that I could just go in the workforce and start making money, and and I thought that maybe that was the um direction I was supposed to go in. And I remember being so angry at God during that time because I felt so conflicted of whether I should go play basketball or whether I should just be working. And I asked him, like, it was a crazy prayer, but I was like, God, take my legs, like just make it so clear that I can't play basketball. It like injured me severely, so I can't play basketball. That's a crazy prayer if you don't want me to play because I had this feeling that I should be going back to playing, and then it was random. Sam was playing at TRU at the time, and I was in their office, and I looked at this um pamphlet, and I saw um Trinity Western University, they were the last place team, and I was a pretty good basketball player to offer scholarship out of high school, and so I'm like, okay, well, if they're last place, I'll just go there and they'll offer me a full ride. And then I started looking them up, and Trevor Prady had just moved there, and he was uh coaching in the G League as an assistant coach. Um, and I'm like, okay, this guy, if I want to go pro, he's probably the best person to help me do it, and just like went, tried it, and yeah, God worked it all out. So throughout all that uncertainty, I and this is I find throughout my whole Christian walk when there's uncertainty, we're never gonna make the right choice because I can't make the perfect choice. But if I pursue Christ and I just commit to a decision, God will use it for his purpose, regardless. I just think that being 50-50 is never really a good or wise place to be in as a believer. It's just commit to something, and if it's the wrong thing, God will use it for his glory, and if it's the right thing, God'll use it for his glory. So there's really no wrong thing. Um, as long as you have that in the back of your mind, you're pursuing Christ and you're trying to um navigate as best as you can because we're not gonna be perfect.

SPEAKER_00 29:50

Yeah, that's something I struggle with. Like trying, like there's two paths, you can go this way or that way, and feeling like if I go on on take the wrong path, I'm gonna throw off God's plan. Realistically, he can take all of my imperfection and he's included it in his plan. We've taken all of our imperfections and included in his perfect plan. Uh, but it's it's stressful. Like, is there something that you go to in regards to when you have to go between A and B and what you know, what gives you that confidence to just stick with one decision and then believe that God is gonna follow through, regardless if it's the right

Faith Over Certainty

SPEAKER_00 30:25

one?

SPEAKER_01 30:25

Yeah, bro, I just realized that when you have all information where you think you're making the perfect decision, that's when I think it actually starts to pervert faith. Like it ruins it. If I know for sure that this is gonna be the right decision sometimes, I have no faith in it. Where it's sometimes when you when you can't tell, um when you're driving and it's like missed in front of you, you don't know where you're going, but you just have faith that God's taking you somewhere, that's when you can demonstrate your faith the strongest. And not that it's a wrong thing when you're sure. I don't mean to say that, that's probably the wrong um term. But um, when you're unsure, there's such beauty in that because you're really rested in Christ. And Sam and I, we started a group called Elevate, and part of the Elevate, it's 11-8. 11-8 kind of like rings with Elevate. We thought it was kind of cool. And so, what Bible verse that that actually refers to is Hebrews 11:8, um, which I have here, and it says, By faith, Abraham obeyed when he was called to go out to a place um that he was to receive as an inheritance, and he went out not knowing where he was going. And I just love that, bro. He had no idea where he was going, but by faith he just went out. And so sometimes when I have no clarity, when God doesn't seem to make to give me the direct answer, that's like a perfect time to be able to demonstrate my faith for him. And I find it's just so rewarding to just walk out and commit to something without knowing if it's the right thing and just trusting.

SPEAKER_00 31:52

Easier said than done, but I I appreciate that. I didn't I've I've never read that verse in that in that way. Yeah, that's I think that's a lot of people would need that because yeah, we're always we're always scared we're gonna do the wrong one, but faith is not seeing like the end line. Like God can it's easier to see in hindsight, but um yeah, I appreciate that. Yeah. Um, Sam, you you mentioned how when you were playing basketball, you got cut from from a team, and then that ended up being a blessing where they they send you down to the states. But what was your mindset like when you got cut? Were you were you bitter? What what's your relationship like at that point?

"Ball Is Life"

SPEAKER_01 32:29

Yeah, it's interesting. I should have mentioned this in my testimony, other than I'm so long-winded, I try to shorten things up. Um, but um I when I got cut, it was fine. I was I was gonna quit the team anyway because I knew a coach and I had a bad relationship. So I wasn't actually bitter or anything. The plan was our I was just I was just like surprised. I was like, oh wow, okay. Like he actually didn't like me enough to cut me because I'd never been cut from a team before. Uh and I still was looking for other teams to go to. And basketball for me was a huge, huge idol in my life. There was everything. I remember saying to people, I remember saying, even talking to Josh, like ball, people say, look, ball's life, ball's life. I'm like, okay, I know God's supposed to be my life, but surely, God, you understand I have to dedicate a lot more time to basketball to be good than you. There's just there's just no way I'm gonna get better at basketball if I read my Bible for hours a day. And and I thought, I had to do this, this is what I have to do because I have to try, I want to go pro, I have to do this. And when I got cut from my team, I'm looking for other teams, I'm trying to get on other basketball teams. I go to this school in the States, which was I I tried out for a different team. I had an opportunity on a different team in Canada to play. Uh, I could go down to Vancouver and play. And um it was a smaller school than I would have liked, but but I thought, well, I could do that, that's fine. Uh and uh there was another team that I was thinking my buddy played on that I was going to try and try out for, but then the school in the States, I thought, well, I have the States better basketball anyway, that'd be so cool. And it's a Christian school, which just sounds unreal to me. And so when I went there to Master's University, I truly thought I when I first uh went there and I actually apply and everything and I knew I was gonna go there, I prayed to God and I said, Okay, God, I will go, I will follow you, even if you take basketball for me. First time I'd ever prayed that. Huge prayer for me. Even if you take away basketball, the thing that I love the most in life, truly loved it the most in life, I'll still follow you. And so I go to the school and they've got a really good basketball team, and I try out for the team, and I thought my first trout went really well. My second trout, I got sick leading up to the trial, and in cardio and endurance is one of my number one things, like defense and stuff is one of my number one things. And uh, I still did okay, but it just wasn't like impressive, and I knew that. And then the coach told me, He's like, Sam, I've got six, he had like 15 or 16 guys, and he said, I just don't have spots for you this year. You can red shirt, you can, or not redshirt, sorry, he said, you can be a manager and then you'll know the plays and stuff. So next year it'd be a better opportunity for you. And I'd just done a year of redshirting for my old college, and I just thought, I can't do that, I can't redshirt again. And um, so I just told the coach that I would just train on my own and try out again next year, and he totally understood. And then when I went away from that conversation, I remember just being like, God, I know I said it, but surely you're not gonna take you're gonna take away basketball for me too. Like, I can't, I came to the Christian school, like I'm learning all about you all the time. But I I thought for sure basketball would be a part of my life, and uh it's actually so cool how God took that away from me. I ended up joining a track team just to just to train. My buddies like, bro, the school expensive. He's like, bro, we're gonna get scholarships. Join the track team, it'll be easy, bro. We're gonna do high jump. Like, we don't have to, we've we both play basketball. High jump's easy, bro. No training. I sign up for the team, I meet the coach, we talk about my faith for an hour. Coach is an amazing guy, changed my life. Uh, coach Zachary Schroeder, amazing man, godly man. He said, Sam, I know you've never done track like this, but I'm not worried about it. You're the type of person that I can train because you love God, you're faithful, you're gonna, I think you're the type of guy who I can train. I don't care where you're at right now. So I'm like, cool. I signed up for the team right away, 6am practices every morning. Every morning. I thought, what in the world happened to easy high jump? That's a new thing that they start right after I joined. And um, I just committed to that and I was faithful to that, even though I didn't even know where track was gonna go and the relationships. And I'm not, I'm not in love with track and field. I mean, it it was like a sweet uh I had a sweet season in my life doing that. But God took away basketball, gave me this track thing, and I just decided to commit to it to be faithful to it. Didn't know if I was making the right decision, but I just wanted to honor my coach, honor that decision that I'd made. And from it, like I had an amazing experience in track. I met godly friends who encouraged me and convicted me all the time. I I grew in discipline because I did six-hand praxes for a sport that I didn't even love all the time. Uh yeah, I had opportunities to travel with the team, win championships with the team, and uh all the all this whole time, even when I was on the team, I'd be like, man, I can't believe like there's no opportunity for me to go back and play basketball. There's no opportunity. But the things that God gave me were just so much better than that. And my life was so prideful when I played basketball. Track's the most humbling sport ever. Because for me, not liking track, even if I was the best on the team, let's say, let's just imagine I wasn't, I was the best at high jump, but even if I was the best on the team at every single event, I felt no pride in track. It just wasn't like, wasn't like, dude, look at me. Like I jump, I jumped this height. Who cares? Like, oh, that's fantastic, dude. Like, who cares? And so it was super, super humbling for me. Um, and uh um, which changed my life and made it so much better, where I just had no pride in those things I was doing. I was working hard, not for the success, not for a championship, not so I could win an event and been boast about it, but just to honor, um, to use my body as an act of worship, which is something my coach always talked about, that we would we would perform to get an opportunity to present the gospel. And that was most highlighted in when we first we won the first championship ever of this this team. We won the first um national championship. And uh the first thing that we did, our coach, our captain, the first thing he did is he took a knee and our whole team gathered around and we took a knee and we just prayed and we prayed and he yelled a gospel prayer in front of this whole national championship, all these athletes, and he just he's he said a gospel prayer in front of all of them. And it was the coolest moment I've ever had in sport where I just thought, man, God, we are truly here working for you. And so that was what my track team, how it changed my life, and how God brought me out of basketball into track and into humility.

Track and the Gospel at Nationals

SPEAKER_00 38:39

Amen. Cause yeah, because I think you can like you can have two different athletes that are that are Christian, ones that like are again like get consumed by a sport and make that their life and make that their idol, um, or ones who use it as an act of worship. And it's a very hard line to to uh teeter between again, like depending on what sport you are, like it can be really individual. So thankfully you had track, but almost every other sport, it's a lot of people who make it all about you, all about you. Like when I played football and I played basketball, not at your guys' level, but again, you're you just you just um I just don't have the height, didn't have the jumper for it. Uh defense defense was my thing, defense was my thing. Uh uh, but um yeah, like again, like it's the media and the world just tells you like it's it's all about you, just care about your stats, your highlights, and everything like that. So I'm wondering, what would your guys' be advice for after everything you've guys gone through as athletes uh who are children of God? What would your advice be for an athlete who is struggling with that? And how would you say is the way that God wants and intends them to glorify him through through their sport? What's what's your advice for that person?

Use Your Body as Worship

SPEAKER_01 39:56

If I can answer that um one first, just such a beautiful verse in the Bible, John 3 30. He must increase, but I must decrease. Always remembering that this whole this whole life is an act of worship, that my sport is an act of worship, where I'm not trying to elevate myself, but I want to elevate Christ. And so any opportunity that I get to put him on a pedestal is such a huge blessing. And I think that we can use our bodies as an act of worship. I think that um working hard for a believer is good. I think Paul talks about a lot. Paul talks about a lot how um, and by the grace of God I am what I am, but his grace towards me did not prove in vain. But I labored harder than everyone, yet not I, but the grace of God in me. And so Paul labored really hard and he worked so so hard. He talks about running the race with endurance, he talks about uh um win writing the race to win. He talks about um how he became all things to all people. And I think about how Paul would like work, I think Paul was like the hardest worker, one of the hardest workers in the Bible. Uh his whole life is just dedicated towards making Christ look better. And so I think as athletes, we can work super, super hard. It's good to work super, super hard so that we perform well and we do really, really well, but all is an act of worship. And then when we take no pride in those things, when people see that, that's different. That's like so cool to be able to be successful, but also not attached. It doesn't matter if I win or fail. Um, yeah, I guess that's my answer. Josh, what would your answer be? Um, I would say for me, God literally prevented me from ever being in a position where um I had to make that compromise. And I think he's faithful to that. Like he doesn't give us more than we can handle. I don't know if I would have it seemed like every time when I was gonna be the best part of my team, I got injured or I became ineligible. Like God literally took me away from having any success from when the world sees my basketball career, and I felt like I got robbed for a while, but it also means nothing. Like it's meaningless if I had like an amazing career and everybody thought I was amazed at basketball because um, yeah, we just have such a greater purpose, and I think God's faithful to that. So I think whatever position you're in as an athlete, if you are the best player and you're receiving all that, understand that you're capable of honoring God and that he didn't give you more than you can handle. You're not gonna you're in a position where you have all the access to things that are are wrong, but where you're not gonna be like too much that you have to just fall into that lifestyle because God will protect you from that. He's not gonna give you that success if you can't handle the pressure of it. Um so yeah, I think that's a truth that's important to hold on to. If you're here, it's like I'm here for a reason, and God's gonna um be faithful to making sure that I can be faithful to my relationship with

Too Many Doors Can Paralyze You

SPEAKER_01 43:00

him.

SPEAKER_00 43:00

Um, that that point that you said about like feeling feeling robbed and I what did it take you to get to this point and this mindset that you know it's um a good career or or or no career or anything in the middle, none of that matters if it's not for for God's glory. Like what what do you have to go through to get to that mindset mindset? Because that's that doesn't happen often, Christian or non-Christian, it's it can again that's not an industry that shapes you to think like that. What did it take you to get to that point? That's a really good question.

SPEAKER_01 43:40

I would say um that part of having faith in wherever you are, it's so important for me because even now I can overthink and wonder if where I'm working is the best place to be, or if I should go back to playing basketball. And for people that are Littered with opportunity sometimes, those are the people that are the most inopportune almost because they don't know where to go. They don't should I go here, should I go there? Should I go there? And for me, it really just comes back to that idea of especially even recently in my life, just realizing that just go out in faith. Because when I look back at all the wrong decisions I've made, they've all worked out to get me here. And all the right decisions that I've made have also worked out to get me here. And I feel as though I'm having I'm in a position where I can be used as an instrument for God. And so just knowing that He'll work all things out for good for those who believe and having like trusting that that God has a plan, a purpose for you that's actually good. And you're not deserving of it, because that's another thing that happens when we sin or when we make the wrong decisions, we're like, oh, I no longer deserve God's perfect plan for me. I'm just gonna go fall into the sin. It's like, no, you never deserve that perfect plan. So you don't have to worry about being perfect. God still has plans of peace, and He's gonna um, yeah, just it's just having that faith that God's gonna take me where I need to be, regardless of where I am. And so I don't have to necessarily second guess. It's just put your head down and work as hard as you can where you are, and do the absolute most you can with where you are, and recognize that it's not for you and it's not because of you that you're able to do it, it's all because of Christ.

unknown 45:21

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 45:21

I don't know if that's a very good answer.

SPEAKER_00 45:23

No, it is. Yeah, I think there's there's this, there's this one uh one quote that I hear. It's like work as if it's all in you and then pray like it's all all in God's hand. And that's a mindset that I've been trying to go to where it's like, I don't want to necessarily like we've all been given gifts, blessings, opportunities, open doors where for us to not do the most with those is a disservice um to what God has gifted you, and you're saying that, you know, either you're not giving me enough or like I'm not the right person and all this stuff, and um,

The Twin Dynamic

SPEAKER_00 46:00

you're essentially like second guessing what God's given you and saying that he shouldn't have given it to you, and he can give it to somebody else, but then at the end of the day, everything that happens um is according to God's will. And so whether or not you can work as hard as you can and he can give you he won't give you that opportunity, um, or he can, and that's completely up to him. And so don't you shouldn't be the reason why something wor works out. Let it be God's will, the reason why, and then trust that. But um yeah, that's something I'm currently uh walk walking through. And with at this point in my life where I'm almost done university and trying to go, where where do I go? How much am I supposed to be doing? Am I doing enough and not getting in the way of uh feeling like I'm earning anything in my relationship with God? And so thankfully I've been able to surround myself with with friends and people like you guys who I can talk to about this, and hopefully the viewers can learn from this as well. Um, I wanted to talk about your guys' dynamic um as brothers, as twins, and as business partners as now as well. Though there was an article that I read, and I think it was uh Sam, you were the one who was being interviewed, and you talked about how you guys are always you guys were both playing basketball at this point, and you said that you guys are always trying to one up each other. And uh it's I won't walk me through that. What what is what is it like being twins who both pursuing the same careers and then again trying to one up each other, but then also build each other up at the same time? Walk walk me through that.

SPEAKER_01 47:30

There's a really interesting reality that I didn't know until I got older, I didn't realize until I got older. But uh by pushing the people around you, you're being unselfish in a sense that you're encouraging others. And by pushing Josh to be better, I'm being a bit unselfish because I'm doing it for him. But you also at the same time, by making the people who are surrounding you better, you make yourself better because then you're in a group of people who are high performing, and suddenly your performance is not enough and it makes you push to be to be better. And that's like a really cool thing, I think as brothers, we've always had is that I my expectation for myself is very, very similar to what I expect from Josh. So when I push him to be better, pushes me to be better, and it's actually loving for me to do it. It's like iron sharpening iron, and you're knocking off chunks of metal on each other, and it hurts. And sometimes it's like, yeah, it's like a you're you're hitting each other and you're you're battling, but um, it's sharpening both of you at the same time, which is just which definitely might have been my experience. Yeah, so yeah, very similar. Um when we were younger, it was a little bit more immaturely. We wanted to be better than each other, but as I got older, the exact same mentality in terms of even my basketball team. Um I always want to push the people around me to be better because the better your environment is, like, show me your five friends, your five closest friends, and then I'll know who you are without even meeting you. That's so true. Yeah, and so if I just push the people around me to be better, then it's gonna elevate myself as well, which is kind of like selfish at the back of the in the um back of my mind. But um, it's also for Sam. Like he's very good at everything he does by the grace of God. And so I always want to be able to provide him value and to help him grow. And I'm only seven minutes older than him, but like that's a lot when you're a twin, and he twins, and I was like, that's the time. And now done. And so I wanna I do act kind of like the older brother, where I want to show him, be able to like push him to be better and show him like what's possible, but he holds such a high standard, it's like, how do I do that? Well, then I have to work extremely hard to always be a little bit better than him, so I can give him some value, and um yeah, with work, I find that that's like really motivating. Is I know even if I slack, I might be better than a lot of people, but I won't be better than Sam because Sam's coming, and so I'm like, how do I actually um push him to be better? It's like I have to show him what's possible, I have to learn more so I can give him more value, and so just being around people where you're competitive, but you're also you want what's best for each other, it's just such such a blessing that we're so, so lucky to have each other where I have someone I can fully rely on that um has my back. Some people, even in families, don't have that. They'll have a brother, but they can't really rely on him. But I can fully rely on my brother, like he is uh my right-hand man. Um, and so yeah, we're just extremely blessed.

Elevate and the Vivint Sales Team

SPEAKER_00 50:28

Yeah, that is a blessing because there's there's certain siblings, twins or not, that we like, like you said, you guys build each other up and then other ones will push the other person down. And like that is just again, that's just leading to chaos and destruction. So thankfully that's something that you guys have been able to foster together. So tell me about how that now shifts into this company that you guys are starting, Elevate. Um, how is that with you guys both running that? Tell me about what the business is exactly for the viewers who don't know about it.

SPEAKER_01 50:58

So Elevate, it's kind of like a separate um group that now we've created. Initially, we made it for our sales team, but I think we're kind of moving to it, uh, and I'll explain the sales team too. I think we're kind of moving to, I want this to be like way bigger than that, just bigger than just our sales company. I want it to be just like a group of people um where we're all trying to elevate each other. So when we find people like Josh Bojo and like yourself that are like really disciplined and working hard for a business to um glorify God, I'm like, okay, you're the kind of people that we want to um bring in to elevate and just make it like way bigger than just a sales team. But what we do for work is we do door-to-door sales for a home security company called Vivent. And um, I've been doing it for three years now. Um, and Sam's been doing it for what two years, I guess. Um, and so yeah, we've hired a team of salespeople and we'll go down to the States um on visas and knock on doors for a summer selling home security, and so it's such a unique environment where we have 20, 30 guys around us that we really like live with. We have separate housing, like we're in houses, but we live so close together, and it's such a tight-knit group where you can really um just influence each other and be like an impact on each other's lives, and so yeah, we're trying to be good examples there for the business, but and I think it's too it's funny how um that works into what Josh said even earlier when he was just saying how he he tries to set the example for me. Like our job, it's like full commission sales. I I was working geotechnical drilling and working like 12, 13 hours a day, seven days a week, to try and pay for school. Josh goes and does does a sales job. My job's like dangerous. I'm literally in the forest. We were up north. Uh, it was helicopter drilling, so we'd get dropped off. I'd get dropped off at a random place um in the middle of the forest up north, and we had bear spray and all these things. There's three of us, and it's and we're like, okay, what happens if a bear comes up? We had a bear come up to our pad one time and we just had to make a lot of noise, so it ran off. Um, and uh my whole family when Josh got the sales job, we're not our whole family, but a lot of people, lots of friends and family, lots of people were saying, Don't go, this is crazy. What are you doing? Don't do it, Josh. Go work with your brother. And I told him, I said, bro, I would never want you to have to work in this job. This is brutal for you. And he told me, he said, Sam, I'm gonna find a way for you to get out of this drilling stuff. And then and drilling was still a great job, just wasn't something for me. It wasn't something that I desired to do for a long time. And um uh Josh goes out and does this job, and then he kind of set he kind of paved the way for me and explains it to me. And I just trusted my brother, and then I went out and it was the best job ever. Uh, did made made more money than I did drilling, which is supposed to be this job where you can make the most money because you sacrifice your entire life to it. And um that sounds fun. Yeah, but I was like, man, this is amazing. And so then I got this new opportunity to go and I can work with my brother. And in the same way that we're competitive and we're pushing people on a sales team, your sales, if you get a lot of sales, it doesn't affect me negatively, it only affects you positively. So our our whole team, everybody's like encouraging, like, like God, they're Dennis. Oh, you got another sale. I'm gonna beat you, I'm gonna get more in you tomorrow. And not in a sense of like, I hope he doesn't do well, but in a sense of like, I want to compete, I want to be trying to be the best. And we've got that same competitiveness going on. And so it makes it a lot of fun to work too. It makes it a lot of fun.

SPEAKER_00 54:19

That's nice. And and how do you guys um like are you guys the head of this of this company? Is is that or how do you guys other people who are in leadership with you guys as well?

SPEAKER_01 54:28

Or good question. Vivant's like a huge, huge company. Um, yeah, they got acquired by NRG for like five billion dollars. We have 4,000 door-to-door salespeople, I believe, now. So it's like huge. Um, but they basically let you, um, when you're successful and you want to grow, you want to get into leadership, which is I'm always trying to do the hardest thing. So I'm always trying to push it. I could have just done sales and not hired a team, just had a manager. But I'm like, no, I want to, I want the pressure, I want to make it happen, I want to run things um this way. And so Sam and I broke off to start our own team where yeah, now we're fully, I'm fully the boss. I have regional managers and stuff that oversee and I can talk to about like problems, issues, and help me with some behind-the-scenes stuff, but um responsibility for the success success of our team is fully on Sam and I.

"If I Died Today I'd Be Home With My Savior"

SPEAKER_00 55:18

And so, with you guys being in that leadership position, where where does your faith trickle into this? Do you feel like it's easy for you guys to implement it in this uh good uh in this in this type of environment? Um how do how does your guys' uh faith in um implementing this as business into this business?

SPEAKER_01 55:38

Um, it's huge because my first year doing it, and it's it's it's so cool how good God is, but my first year doing it, overall I did really well. I did really well. And uh I remember my boss would say, Oh, you guys, it's you're positive, like it's because you're positive that you do so well. And he asked the team, he's like, Who's the most positive person here? And they're like, Sam is um I'm like, dude, I don't even feel like I'm very positive. I feel like I'm very just normal. And um this one's nonchalant. That's him. He's nonchalant, I'm normal. Um and this girl asked, She's like, Sam, how do you stay positive all the time? And I was just thinking, I'm like, Well, if I died today, what's the worst thing that happened to me? I could die out there. If I if I died today, I'd be at home with my savior. So when I'm not making sales, if I don't make money, like that just makes that's just not a huge, I'm not worried about it. Like, if I don't make a sale, that's just not the biggest deal. Because God's still on his throne. I still somehow Jesus Christ, the God of the universe, saved me and revealed himself to me and revealed his gospel to me. So I'm all I'm just thankful. I'm just walking around having so people are like, oh, this guy's made a lot of money today. He's walking around so having like, dude, I made zero dollars today. And so that but that mindset allowed me to like when things were really hard in sales, because like the hardest thing that can happen to you in sales is you go a long period without making sales because you make no money. And so for me, during those times, during those seasons, it was just knowing that dude, I don't God is in control of my money. I don't make a sale because I'm so smart. God controls every single thing that I do, and so I can just have faith in God and know that He's in control of my life. If He wants me to be broke tomorrow, that's His plan. If He wants me to be rich tomorrow, that's His plan. And so I can just trust in Him for the next step. And so yeah, that your my faith just allows me to be able to walk with the confidence through every day and in every part of my life.

Identity

SPEAKER_00 57:30

And for yourself, how do you how do you implement your faith into you being a leader on this group now?

SPEAKER_01 57:35

Yeah, it's similar to Sam. Um sales tends to be very numbers-oriented, so the top seller is more valued, the bottom seller not valued, and then day-to-day people allow their success because of that um to really affect their mood and to affect their view of themselves. And as Christians, we have something so fundamental is that my identity is not in the fact that I'm 6'3, played basketball, um, had a successful sales job. Like that stuff doesn't matter, it's completely meaningless. My identity is in Christ, and I'm a child of God. And when you have that, it's something that's completely consistent and it's always stable. So my I'm like on that solid rock, that stable foundation. And so when I have good sales, awesome, I'm still on that solid rock. When I have bad sales, I'm still on that solid rock. Um and that's an example that we're able to be for the guys. And I just tell them, like, chase, don't chase the money, because a lot of people get into sales or any kind of job and they're chasing money, just chase the the person you have to become. To me, all my paycheck is it just shows me the person that I become so um if it's a small paycheck, I'm like, okay, um, why was I only paid that much? I'd see it more of like I want to become valuable enough so that my paycheck is like bigger, you know what I mean? Um to to where I can like give back to people. Um, not that like my value matters based on my paycheck, but it's like the numbers don't matter because I give you a million dollars right now, and it's like you're a millionaire, but you're probably gonna lose it. Like most people that win the lottery, they lose it because they're not ready to be millionaires, they're not actually a millionaire person. I'd rather be the millionaire man. Um and so chase the hard, chase the inputs and stuff that you can control, and the money just comes, it's like guaranteed. Um, it's in God's hands at the end of the day. So if he trusts you to have lots of money, sweet, that's a stewardship. If he trusts you not to have a lot of money, well, you have to be really smart with that stewardship as well. And I just see like chasing the work is the most important thing. Um and for context too, like our father is a pastor, he doesn't make a lot of money, right? But I think he's doing the highest calling that he could possibly be doing. And so he was such a good example for me growing up because I'm like, okay, no matter what the dollar sign says, I'm gonna pursue where Christ has me called. And then in our position, Salmon, I do pretty well financially, and that's just a stewardship. It's not like, oh, I'm so amazing that I have this and now I have to use it for his glory the same way my dad has to use the stewardship that he has for his glory. Um so yeah, I hope that wasn't too convoluted

His Dad Gave on No Paycheck for a Year

SPEAKER_01 1:00:16

of an answer.

SPEAKER_00 1:00:16

No, that was great. Do you ever what's that relationship with with uh uh with money out um I'm warning? Because again, like like you said, a lot of sales is about like the inputs and stuff like that. So has has God taken you guys on a journey with that in regards to stewarding, or have you guys just been from the get-go, know how to steward it, haven't any made mistakes, or what's what's that journey been like? Um, the example's completely set by our parents.

SPEAKER_01 1:00:43

So my dad not making a lot of money, one thing that they never compromised on was how much they gave to the church, which was such I don't think my parents even know how much of an example that was. My dad went like was it a year without a paycheck? And he just continued to give to the church on nothing, like he had no paycheck for like a year. And um so Sam and I, very young, were taught like giving back to the church, recognizing that all the money you have is from God. Yeah, it's so important. And I always thought, okay, one day I'll be rich and it'll be so easy to give the church so much money. But the more money you make, the more you're like, oh, I'm actually I can do this now. Oh, I can invest in this property, I can do this with this money. So now it's like $1,000 when I only had $1,000 in my bank account was easy to give. I didn't have a lot I could do with a thousand. But now let's say a hundred thousand dollars. Well, now I can invest in a property, I can put down payment on a house, I can buy um like rent out a studio to do, you know what I'm saying? So it's like way more that you feel like you're sacrificing when you give that money back. So starting that early, if you don't, then when you get more money, it's not gonna become easier. It just becomes harder, you just become more um focused on the money. So I was just gonna say, and we saw that giving to the church doesn't mean that God's gonna make you a millionaire. We're not my dad never gave to the church because he said and told us, kids, I'm giving to the church because God's gonna reward us now and stuff. It was that's just what they did. They just knew, and so yeah, the more money I get, I just think I want my heart to be um for the Lord, where you where you use your money is where your heart's gonna end up. So use your money for the things of the kingdom. Like that's why we even run in our event, our community event, we literally just got to run that to get close with the community, got to give a little gospel presentation, and just got to enjoy Christian fellowship with other brothers. And that was so much fun. That was that felt like such a great way to be able to spend my money. And um, yeah, that's the thing I just want to remind myself always of. And I also never, I never think that like every day, especially in sales, like you're not guaranteed anything. So it doesn't matter how much money is in my bank account. I don't think like, oh my goodness, like, look, I'm I'm gonna make this, even if, even if I had, which I don't have anywhere near, but even if I had a million dollars in my bank account, I wouldn't be like, look, I'm I'm set. This is life's taken care of, I'm all good. Because, dude, God's in control of your life. There's a story I wish I could remember where in the Bible, but this guy he builds up everything, he builds up his barns, he's like, Oh, I have all this money. He buys more barns, he prepares everything, so he multiplies them and he's got all this wealth and he finally establishes what I would call like a great generational wealth and great wealth that he can just relax. And he's like, Okay, and now when he finishes it all, he goes, Now I'll relax and just enjoy my money. And then God looks at him and says, You fool, then today your soul is gonna be, I'm gonna take your soul from you. Today's your last day to live. And so if you live trying to store up things on this earth, it's such a waste of your how stupid would that be? If you look, if you could be in heaven now and look back on how you're living your life, you'd be like, How stupid was I to try and chase making a hundred thousand dollars a year or making a million dollars a year when when I didn't even when I didn't chase the things that were gonna last forever in heaven. These treasures that that that God is literally up there right now building up a place for you and preparing a place for you, and that your brother and sisters around you, you can tell them about that same God who's doing that um for you, and you can share that with them, and you can have an impact on their spiritual life. You can store up treasures for yourself where they're where moth um and dust will not destroy them. Like that is amazing. That's the ultimate gift. So looking at things from Christ's perspective and um through heaven's eyes.

SPEAKER_02 1:04:23

Yeah. Look at your life through heaven's if you know that song.

SPEAKER_01 1:04:29

I don't know who's that by it's Moses, man, Prince of Egypt. Oh, has no idea. Oh, oh, from Prince of Egypt.

SPEAKER_02 1:04:34

Okay, yeah, yeah. No, no, no, no, no, it's one of our favorites, my bad.

SPEAKER_00 1:04:39

I've watched that movie so many times. It's it's classic. No, no live action is going to beat that one. Um again, like money is just a tool that God has given like um uh blessed you with. And again, he can he can give it and he can take away. Again, if you're not if you're not steering it the properly, like there's somebody else um that God can use it. And um, I think that's something that we should all continue thinking is that again, God can give and God can take. Glory be to God. And

Modeling and the Trap of Affirmation

SPEAKER_00 1:05:09

there can be, you know, really high moments where you have all this money and you're like so sure about everything, and then you get prideful, and then God out of love wants to humble you because he doesn't want to let you get to your head. So um I think we have to take every one of those opportunities, like high and low, as a way, again, to have faith. Like in if you don't know when your next paycheck is, you don't know how big it's going to be, those are the moments that you can use to like strengthen your strengthen your faith. Um one of the other facets that you guys uh have uh gone about in your careers um is is fashion. You guys have uh done modeling before. And I thought that was really interesting when uh when when Josh told me about you guys. Um I want and I think that's an industry that a lot of people just don't have any clue about from because it's all external and you just see the advertisement posters. Um, around the store and malls and stuff. So would you guys be able to tell me how you guys first got into that? Like at what age and how did that opportunity happen?

SPEAKER_01 1:06:09

I'll let you mostly talk about this one because Josh has definitely done a bit more than me. But one thing that I'll say too, from having done modeling and stuff, is that um if you seek attention from the world, it'll destroy you because you will always want more. If you think that you, if you if you hold value, like I don't I I don't uh think of myself as better looking or anything just because I modeled for companies. I just think I they had a look that they wanted and that worked for that. It's fantastic, praise the Lord. But when in times of my life when I've seeked reassurance and I've seeked affirmation, and I've suck, sorry, sought, sought, so cut back, cut that. But when I sought affirmation from the world and I sought um affirmation from girls or from Instagram posts and stuff like that, uh even if you get it, you just want more and you want everybody to do, you want everyone. And so at some point in your life, even if you have that now and you're a very good looking person and you're listening to this podcast, you're like, dude, I have every girl likes me. All the girls that I come into cross, they like me. At some point in your life, um, you'll realize that that's super meaningless because you just want a wife or a husband. Uh, or at some point in your life you'll be single and you'll realize that it's meaningless. And maybe at some point in your life you'll be ugly and you'll realize that that was so meaningless, and you'll be the person who always talks about, well, back when I was in high school or back all college, the girls used to love me. And you'll feel like an idiot and you'll look like an idiot to everybody around you. And so, yeah, having don't not not have any value in these things. If you are a model or something like that, just enjoy it for what it is of just fun taking pictures. I love doing this, that's cool. But if you take any value in who that makes you feel like or who that what that looks like to the world, it'll destroy you. Right? You can answer more. Um charm is deceitful and beauty fades. But a woman who fears the Lord should be praised. That's kind of paraphrased, right?

SPEAKER_00 1:08:01

I feel like that was close enough. I feel like that was close enough to be vain.

SPEAKER_01 1:08:06

What did I say? Same thing. Yeah, um, yeah, I just that's an awesome verse that I just saw recently. Because sometimes we seek out those things. Social media, for all it is, it creates a lot of comparison and it it can kind of make us feel like we're not enough. Um, but yeah, when you have Christ, you you just realize that he's enough, so you don't have to be. Um, but yeah, in terms of modeling, we have some friends back home in Camloops. They were starting a brand called Seven Casseran, and really cool, really cool clothing brand. Check it out. But um, they asked us to come do a shoe for them. We were like, Yeah, sure, this would be sick. They were like, Yeah, we want twins for this. So we did it, posted our Instagrams a few of the pictures, and then an agency reached out to us, and um, our cousin actually models, and so we got reached out to by this agency on Instagram, and I'm like, bro, this is a scam, like what's going on? So we sent it to our cousin, she's like, No, you get too good, like this is real, and we were like, Oh, okay, yeah, I didn't know they hired ugly people, like and then so um we pulled up to their um like studio, and Sam couldn't come because he was in California, I think at that point. It was 2021, then like around 2021. And then so I was on had him on FaceTime and I met them, they're like, Yeah, we like you, you're cool, we like your guys' look. And um, yeah, I just started modeling. So they would they just took some pictures of me, had them online, and then a company would see it, be like, Hey, we're looking for somebody of this look. And basically the agency, and I worked for Stranger Agency, they're so awesome, they were they were so nice to me. And um they would uh um have this portfolio and then they'd send them the companies like pictures of people that kind of qualify for what they were looking for, and then you just get the shoots. Um, yeah, and it was important for me to just see it as uh I never was like, Oh, I'm gonna pursue modeling full-time, like I'm gonna be a one of the models in Vogue. Well, maybe Vogue. I wanted Vogue. Vogue if you're seeing this, like but um yeah, just stay close. It was a um opportunity to meet people that I wouldn't normally have met, and a lot of creative people that were just so cool, and I could just be an example of uh Christ and not being um thinking that I was all of that.

Christians Should Break Into Fashion

SPEAKER_00 1:10:28

Um and yeah, I just had an awesome time doing it. Is that an industry that Christ is prevalent in? From an outside perspective, it seems like it like it wouldn't be like like you said, like a lot of people care about their looks, and it's all like a like prideful. And so I'm just and thankfully, like you you guys have been able to be seed planters, but is that is that common in that industry to have seed planters?

SPEAKER_01 1:10:54

I would say the people I met, most of them, um, Stranger Agency, most of the models I met there, most of the photographers like I shot with the Lululemon guys and um a lot of other companies, they were really, really sweet, really like nice people, but they weren't living their lives for Christ. Um, some of them, which uh I didn't have there wasn't like they were so vain, and it just it was just their lifestyle, they weren't walking with Christ, which you'll see anywhere. It's not like these people, like a lot of the times people think, Oh, if you're not walking with Christ, you're like a bad person. Right. Um, a lot of times it's like the most wonderful people we meet, but it's just realizing that it doesn't matter how good of a person you are, we still have sin, and we've affronted a wholly perfect God. And the only way to mend that relationship is to put our faith and our belief on Christ and what his finished work did on the cross, um, purifying us and taking the penalty of our sins so that when God looks at us, he sees Christ. So no matter how good of a person you are, it's like you need Christ because you're not perfect. But when Christ comes into your life, God literally sees you as perfect. And I loved everybody I worked with, and I I um yeah, I wish nothing the best for them, and I wish for everybody to receive and to um have a relationship with Christ.

SPEAKER_00 1:12:16

What do you think um Christians can do to like make a bigger impact in that industry? What are they lacking in from a Christian perspective? And uh, what do you think that could be done more?

SPEAKER_01 1:12:27

That's a really good question. I would say just if you're a Christian and that's where you feel called, like you're a creative person, or if you want to get into modeling, pursue it and just pursue Christ first and realize that even something like your looks, it's you didn't do anything to get the way you look. And so it's all God and and try and be an example for him in that industry. I'm not a fan of Christians being like, Oh, we can't be involved in that because it's un-Christian, and I think that could be a stigma with something like modeling and fashion industry. It's like we should get more involved in it to it so that we could have a Christian influence where we can demonstrate our Christian values on like the biggest stages. And so I'm like, yo, if there's Christians here in this that want to go into fashion and modeling, like break into that industry and make it all about Christ. Um, because every ad, like all these books, have faces on it, right? That's like someone modeling, basically. I don't think it's a wrong thing to have. Um, as long as your influence that you're gaining, you're just pointing them back to the one um person that we should all model, which is Christ.

Calvin Klein, Lust, and Accountability

SPEAKER_00 1:13:33

Yeah, amen to that. Sam, did you have anything?

SPEAKER_01 1:13:35

Yeah, I was gonna say in any career, in any job that you do, uh you want to be a light and you want to be a light to the people around you. But the Bible does talk about the bad company will corrupt good morals. And when you work, if you if all the people that you work with are not believers, um you will be involved. You will, they're not bad people necessarily, um, doing absolutely evil things, but they won't know the wisdom of the of God is completely separate from the wisdom of the world, it's completely opposite. So they won't be able to give you wisdom. And like Psalm 1 talks about, you don't want to walk in the counsel of the ungodly, you don't want to walk in their counsel, you don't want to um be with them all the time. That's not the people you want to be spending your time with, but you want to dwell um in the house of the Lord. And so I would say that like an industry like modeling, it's really easy to fall into sin because it is that idea of you're praising yourself, it's all about me, it's all about me. So it's easy for you to let your mind go into like, wow, I am really, maybe I am really good looking. Wow, this company, they love the way I look. They want to shoot. Well, Lululemon wants to shoot with me. Maybe I am super good looking. Vogue wants me, maybe I am the best looking person. And so if you do pursue that, and and I say this not only in modeling, but in every career that you do, because you always be around unbelievers, but specifically for this context modeling, then know that you want to have an even stronger foundation in your church. You want to have stronger brothers and sisters who will uh call you out. And maybe you post for Calvin Klein, maybe you get a Calvin Klein shoot and you've got a great body. And you're like, oh, I'll just post my pictures on Instagram. It's like it's just me in underwear, like it's not the worst thing. And then I want to have, I want to have brothers around me saying, bro, what are you doing? Like, what do you why are you doing this to cause people to lust? Like, why would you why would you ever do that? I want to have brothers who say that and call actually make me rethink my decisions. And so, in whatever career path, but specifically if you pursue something like modeling, um, know that you're gonna need a strong foundation of brothers and sisters who can hold you accountable to um honor God in that.

Where Is Your Relationship With Christ?

SPEAKER_00 1:15:34

Amen of that. Um, for every interview to um to land it, I have three questions. And the first two, they're simple yes or no for both of you. And then the last one I want you to elaborate. Um is your guys' relationship with Christ where you guys individually want it to be?

SPEAKER_01 1:15:54

Yes.

SPEAKER_00 1:15:58

Yeah. Oh I don't know if it's where you want to be again. Not yes, but yeah. Okay, okay, yeah. That's that's an answer. Um, is your relationships with Christ where Christ wants it to be?

SPEAKER_01 1:16:12

Yes. Both of these questions I'm I'm like in the middle.

SPEAKER_00 1:16:19

Josh, what gives you the the confidence to say yes right right away? Um, because it's growing.

SPEAKER_01 1:16:25

And I'm gonna say no.

unknown 1:16:29

Oh, shoot.

SPEAKER_01 1:16:30

I might have said the wrong answer. No, I honestly, because it's just growing. And I find sometimes people are so worried about, and it's good, it's a good worry to have. Like, there's certain things that we think about that aren't bad to necessarily like overthink and be, but I don't want to like worry about it at the same time because I don't think worrying is healthy, but um to be like, where am I at right now? Like, oh well, I used to be here, or they pinpoint it, and I just find that puts so much pressure on you and making you think that you have to be something to be more worthy of Christ, um, and more worthy of that relationship. Bro, nothing I do, if I after this podcast, I left and I just went and prayed in the mountains for the rest of my life, I would know I would be no more worthy of Christ and the relationship I have with him. The only thing, I love this quote, I don't know who it's by, you might know who it's by, but the only thing that I've contributed to my salvation is the sin that made it necessary. And that verse, through my weakness, he's made strong. I've resonated with it so much more now because anybody that knows me knows that I'm a weak sinner. And so anytime I do something good, I'm like, you can't say that it was Josh. You have to say that it was Christ. Because through my weakness, he's strong. And the only reason that he chose me that I can think of to be a believer, um, is so that he could demonstrate his glory more through me. Because he was like, Josh is the weakest sinner of them all. He's gonna be the one that I use to be an example for the people. And um, I just pray that I can be an example and be an instrument to him, and that I will be faithful because I'm so consistently unfaithful, but I just am so thankful that Christ, like I said before, is the author, perfecter of my faith, and that he's like I've I'm living with him, I've been crucified with him, and I'm now living my life with him.

SPEAKER_00 1:18:22

And um, so that's why I say yes to those questions. Amen. Now we we're we're white as snow, and he covered our scarlet red uh like souls, and yeah, but and I I think it's important to have because a lot of people sometimes will also be hesitant about whether or not their salvation is hesitant about their salvation. People will be in uh in the church for years and and then be still unsure whether or not they're going to Christ and be like, oh, I don't think my relationship with uh with with Jesus is strong enough. And that's because I'm and because of that, I'm not gonna go uh go to heaven and he's not gonna forgive me. And it's such a dangerous mentality to be in. And you can be like in such a like down and low point of being so uncertain about your future, even though you believe in Christ, yet you don't think that his salvation applies to you because you're still like in this work-based salvation, or you don't think that his unconditional love applies to you. But so I think it's it's important to be confident in that. So I'm glad that that you are. Um and Josh, you were a little bit more hesitant and then you said no in regards to how Jesus Oh, sorry, Sam.

SPEAKER_02 1:19:36

Sorry, sorry, um uh bro, I I love what you shared.

SPEAKER_01 1:19:46

Uh I pulled up a verse to go off what you shared, um, which is in 1 Corinthians uh chapter 1. And it's a really good reminder uh for each of us believers, but it is in 1 27. But God has chosen the foolish things of the world to shame the wise, and God has chosen the weak things of the world to shame the things which are strong. So if you ever look around you and you think, I'm so weak, I'm such a weak Christian. Oh, or man, why are Christians so weak? It's because God chose the weak things of this world to make the strong things look weak. And so um, God has chosen you because you are not because you were so wise, not because we were so special, but because we are so weak. Um so that's what I thought about right after what you said. It's the verse that goes perfectly with what you said. And then for my thinking, uh the reason why I would say like, yes, uh in a I'm my relationship with the Lord is where I want to be because he is saved, like I'm so grateful. He saved me, he chose me when I was running from him into my sin and I hated God. Um he completely transformed my heart, and now I can I can actually love him and have a relationship with him because of Christ's sacrifice on the cross. Dude, my relationship with God is 100% where I'd want to be because I'm with him, I'm in his kingdom, and I want to grow that relationship because I I want to know him better. But it's I'm so so grateful for that. And um is it where Christ wants it to be? Well, I think God desires relationship with me. God wants to know me more intimately and to to have a strong relationship with me, and sin separates that relationship. And since I'm still in this body of flesh, I still there's like this sin that I can I can fall into sin and I can grieve the Holy Spirit. I can I can um um I just feel like that that can I can separate my relationship from him, maybe in a sense of in like a small sense of where I don't get to, I'm not in commun in perfect communion with him. But when I die, when I finally die and I'm freed of all sin, I will know God more, I will know God perfectly. Um and so I was thinking about um Christ when he lived here, Hebrews 12:1, um, where it talks about that um therefore, since we have such a great cloud of witnesses surrounding us, laying aside the weight and the sin that so easily entangles us in this life, that that holds us down, that wants to bring us back, let us run the race, and I won't quote this perfectly, but let us run with the race with endurance that is set before us, um, looking to Christ, the author and perfecter of our faith, who for the joy set before him, not the joy that was in this world, but the joy that was set before him in heaven, um, endured the cross, despising the shame, and he's now seated at the right hand of the throne of God. So when Christ was on this earth, he was he was fervently seeking that day. He was enduring the pain at all of this, because he was looking towards the goal, towards the end of being with God the Father, sitting on the right hand of the throne of God for eternity and reigning for eternity. And so, um, yeah, that's why I can answer those questions kind of like a yes-no. Yeah. Um, my girlfriend always says we know, we know. She's French. So I just thought I thought of her when we were saying that because it's like, yeah, like for it for sure. I'm super grateful, but I want to grow more of that. I want to keep looking to the joy that's set before me. Yeah.

Final Prayer Requests + Romans 1:16

SPEAKER_00 1:23:04

Yeah. It's and I think both of you guys is important to like it, it's important to have a confidence in in your in your relationship and what he's done. And then also be at a point where there's always like we're it's not gonna that work's not gonna be done until that final day where we meet him in heaven. And so having confidence and then knowing that there's so much work that can still be done. And I think that's mentality that I'm personally trying to, and I hope everyone is trying to um embody. So I thank you for for both of those perspectives for that. Um thank you so much for just your time for here today. I was wondering, is there anything that I could be praying for as we walk off? I know you guys are going back to the states to your to your sales group. Is there anything this uh the audience can be praying for you? One thing I'm curious. Was there a third question? No, the third question was why why why the difference? Um, I'll explain it to him later.

SPEAKER_01 1:23:55

Yeah, my bad, bro.

SPEAKER_00 1:23:57

You're all good, you're all good.

SPEAKER_01 1:23:58

Um, I my brain was still thinking, I was like, I got one, too. I'm so curious what the third people. Um uh I would say a constant prayer in my life. I always want to know God more. I always want to see God more, and I want to behold him for who he is. I think that transforms everything else in your life. So yeah, I would say if you were if you were gonna think of me and think to pray for Sam, um pray that I will be able to marvel at the beauty of God, and I'll see the beauty of God. Just marvel at his beauty, and to be taken aback from that. That'd be super cool. I'll do. And Josh for yourself. Um I just want to like, there's so many things I could ask a prayer for. If you should pray for me in general, say anything, I probably need it. You look at him and say, Lord, I pray for Josh, you know he needs it. I know like a really important verse for me is Romans 1:16. And I'll try and quote it, but I have a bad memory. Um, for I'm not ashamed of the gospel of Christ. Um for it is the power of God for salvation to all who believe, for the Jew first and also for the Greek. For in it the righteousness of God is revealed from faith to faith, as it is written, the just shall live by faith. So I want to live by faith. Like I want to have that strong belief and constantly just fix my eyes on Christ because I think being reminded of the gospel, because that's what the gospel is, it's the story of Christ, right? Coming. For anybody that doesn't know what the gospel is, um God's perfect, humans are imperfect. God can only be in relationship with perfection, but our sin keeps us from being able to be in relationship with Him. So God comes down to earth, pays for that sin. So there's no longer a separation between us and God, and that's what Christ did on the cross. And so just looking at what Christ did on the cross, and that's what changes my affections when I fall more in love with Christ, realizing what he sacrificed for me, that he stepped out of perfection heaven for people that hated him. For the same people that were killing him, he said, I love you, you know what you're doing, and I'm gonna die for you to save you. And so the deeper you understand that sacrifice, the more you fall in love with Christ, it just um changes your whole life. And so I just want to fall deeper in love with Christ and just um understand that more and more every day.

SPEAKER_00 1:26:37

It's the greatest love story ever told. Amen. Yeah, thank you so much, guys. Um, thank you so much, guys, for watching. Um, I pray that today, on this episode, uh, with the with the Gene Brothers, that is just a chance for you guys to again um make that commitment in your relationship with God um to declare him as your Lord and Savior, uh, for you guys to go to church, to for you guys to surround yourself with uh other uh brothers and sisters in Christ. Um until next time, stay bold and stay blessed. Thank you.