Dave Bowerman - Surfolkau

Dave Bowerman is one half of Surfolkau a Vintage film camera, apparel and goods brand quickly taking over Australian Markets. 

Dave shares his insights into how he started his business his keys to e-commerce success and advice to future business owners looking to get into the space. 

This pod was so insightful into the world of e-commerce and brand building

Daves insta: https://www.instagram.com/dave__bowerman/
Surfolkau: https://surfolk.co

Transcript

SPEAKER_02 0:00

Okay everyone, thank you again for joining us on another episode of the House Business Podcast where we interview business owners. So we get to learn about why they start, what keeps them operating, what keeps them motivated. And today we are in the beautiful Toronto in New South Wales with Mr. Dave. How are you, mate? Good mate, doing well.

SPEAKER_01 0:19

Good to be here. I mean is my home, so I'm happy to be here.

SPEAKER_02 0:22

Yeah, so so we're currently at the home office. Yeah. Beautiful views, mate. Beautiful, beautiful everything.

SPEAKER_01 0:27

Very eclectic. Yeah, we are we call it the tree house coined um affectionately because it's sort of up in the trees a little bit. A lot of timber work, but it's nice.

SPEAKER_02 0:34

How do you get any work done?

SPEAKER_01 0:36

It's yeah, it's tricky. Nice view, but um no, it's good. I think the environment's important, right? You've got to be inspired by your environment. So, yeah, it does that for us, I think.

SPEAKER_02 0:45

Of course. So bring me right back to the beginning. So, what made you start your first business? What were you doing before you started your business journey? Give us the rundown of how it all came to be.

SPEAKER_01 0:57

Yeah, for sure, man. Um, yeah, the journey is interesting. Did uh my uni degree, like a lot of people do, um, started in teaching, funnily enough, didn't complete that. Uh but transition to business commerce, um, specifically commerce and financial um I guess areas. So went into financial planning from there, which was very different to what I'm doing now. It's um, I guess it's you know very analytical, um still people facing, but I guess I guess that creativeness of me um just wasn't really fully satisfied in that role. But um from there we started our brand Surfolk actually, like pretty well off the bat in COVID lockdowns. So I think it was 20 towards the end of 2021, I believe, uh, when like things are just shutting down, the world was ending, it felt like I guess we were just like home a lot and realized, you know, starting a business is something we've always wanted to do online. Um at the time I was shooting heaps of film um because we could only go out for you know a couple, half an hour a day or whatever it was, and I'd always take my film camera and get some roles of film. And I guess because like we're all on digital devices and everything so much during that period, like to go to analog and shoot film really just felt like refreshing and just grounding, I think, um, during that hectic time of of our life. But um, from there we kind of started an Instagram page um around film, like being sort of the hero, and um realized there's this huge community online, and I think from there we wanted to make a product that was easy to use, help people get outdoors, go analog, and um be a little bit more digital free, I guess, um, and create some memories and stuff like that. So, yeah, it kind of took off there organically, but um it's been a wild ride since then, and we're just still riding it, I think.

SPEAKER_02 2:38

Yeah, amazing. So the first product was a 35mm film camera.

SPEAKER_01 2:42

Yeah, well, we actually launched a few products. We had like um, I guess the goal was always to be um a lifestyle brand, so it wasn't always like a film camera brand. Um, so we started with like you know, a tea, a tote bag, some other just merch items, I guess you could say. Um, and honestly, the film camera was like a last edition. Like I was working on it and I'm like, do I launch this? Do I not? Ended up doing it, and to be honest, now it's like probably 80% of our sales, like it's just been a hero, like it's really connected with the market and and people and community. So um, yeah, really glad I did that back in the day.

SPEAKER_02 3:13

Amazing. Um, before we go in-depth on the products and ins and outs of that, you were working as a financial planner before this?

SPEAKER_01 3:19

Yeah, yeah, that's right.

SPEAKER_02 3:20

Yeah, and how long, like what was the transition period between financial planner and going all in in business?

SPEAKER_01 3:26

Yeah, so I was doing um, I was like an associate role um with the financial planning business in in my my city. Um look, I think great role, great business. Um, I think the transition for me was really around um I think always wanting to do build something on my own. Um, also that again, that creativity I mentioned um just isn't really there in finance, great industry. But if you're creative, it's probably not the industry for you. Um I think I realized more and more as I was building out our business sort of behind the scenes, you know, obviously whilst working full-time. Um I realised more and more that that was what was bringing me more joy than my actual role. Um I think that was a good like um inflection point for me to realise, like, okay, this is like if this were full-time, this would be probably the dream and something I'd want to pursue. But um, yeah, so I was doing financial planning for for two um two and a half years, I think it was in the end, um, post-uni. And um yeah, sort of uh started transitioning out of that as as SurfOc sort of kicked off and got some some headway, got some um momentum. So yeah.

SPEAKER_02 4:27

Yeah, um a lot of people don't really talk about that that little bit there where you're still working, yeah, you're you're launching your your business as well, and you want to you want to sell enough products or do enough of your service to cover what you need to in your day job, right? Yeah, yeah. Was there a day that you were at work and you sort of realize, okay, I'm here now, it's time.

SPEAKER_01 4:47

I think so. I think, yeah, look, I definitely do. Like this, I feel like there's two schools of thought. There's, you know, very much the um, you know, replace your income, you know, the same if not more, so you can, you know, um, I guess, you know, justify that in yourself. And a lot of people, I think it honestly probably comes down to personality. Some people need that reassurance, that safety net. Um, I'm probably slightly more on the risk-taking side where I probably jumped the gun maybe earlier than I reasonably should have. Um, but there was a point where I think that you know, we're selling enough product, getting enough units out there where I could see that you know I'm putting in, call it, you know, eight hours, ten hours a week into this thing. Um, are we getting these results? You know, if I were to just you know increase that, are we gonna get the same sort of return or more, of course? And um that proved to be true. So that was that was a good move for us in the end. Um, but yeah, look, definitely like worked a couple jobs in between that phase as well, you know, because that is the the um I guess the part of the journey most people like do skim over, like you know, I I started it and we made it sort of thing. Um so definitely worked a couple jobs in between there to sort of pay the way through, but um definitely once I had quit my actual proper corporate job, I definitely was like this is the right journey for me. I'd rather hustle a bit and make this dream come into reality. Um then you know, always wonder if or could it have happened, I guess. Um that was my big thing. It's sort of the the 80-year-old self analogy where if you could look back retrospectively, you know, would you be proud of this decision? Would you, you know, back yourself and that sort of thing? And at the time I was like, Yeah, I'm I'm not gonna regret giving myself uh as best of a shot as I can at this thing.

SPEAKER_02 6:22

Run me through like ground zero of building the brand image first. So the brand image is beautiful. I've of course I've scrolled through and yeah, it makes me makes me want to buy something, but how did you create that image?

SPEAKER_01 6:33

Yeah, well, firstly, I'm a co-founder, my wife also is the co-founder. Shout out, shout out there. So um, you know, and she's social media aesthetically has a lot of taste, I think. So I can't take all the credit for that. But um, but I'll she would be happy saying this. Um, she does say like surfing is very much you in a bottle, basically, like being me, I guess. So, you know, surf, shooting film, all those sorts of things. I think a lot of my personality has been poured into the brand. Um, you know, um, for better or for worse. Yeah, yeah. But I think definitely like the brand image, I think it's definitely grown organically out of um this sense of um almost um well, I mean it honestly kind of ties into one of our brand mission statements, which is against the grain. Um, obviously pun and grain being filmed, but against more more often than not, you know, um society has different you know paths that you should take, whether it's uni, corporate, buy the house, all those things, and none of those things are bad by any means, but you know, just to copy and paste that sort of dream onto everyone, I think, you know, is not really gonna work for some people. So I guess against the grain is that idea of you know moving against what you should do and doing what you want to do, following your passions. Um, and I think those kinds of people were um what were drawn to surfolk and it really the brand image and um visually even kind of grew out of that sort of I don't know psychology almost, I think.

SPEAKER_02 7:57

One of our the second guests on our past uh our podcast, his name is Aldrin, okay, and he said something to me that I'll never forget. He said the best branding is when the brand reflects the owner because they're just being themselves. Yeah. So he has these physioclinics in in in Sydney, and when you go in, it's very bougie, very nice, very funky, and then you meet him as a person, he's the same way. And it's like, okay, I see that. And then when I look at your brand and you, it's like, yeah, you're just you're just showing yourself through your brand, which makes branding a lot easier.

SPEAKER_01 8:24

100%. And it kind of builds that um almost even from a strategy level, that mode around you, right? It's like, you know, no one else can replicate you if you're just being you, because we're all unique and we've no one no one know two people the exact same, right? So yeah, I think that's really important. And it also gives you that um if your brand is who you are as a person, when you know times are tough, because you know it's not a smooth journey owning your own business, whether it's e-comm or service-based or anything, um, when times are crap, and you know, to put it politely, um, you know, if you're doing what's true to who you are, then you can actually go through those storms a bit better, I think. Whereas if you're sort of you know building something that isn't genuine to you, it's very easy to be like, okay, you know, maybe this isn't working, I'm tapping out. Um whereas when it's yourself, yeah, you can definitely dig deep and know, okay, if I keep doing this. And there's community, I think it's a big thing too if you're especially in e comm, you know, your customers um your customers are your business, right? So you know you're nothing without them. And so serving them, putting their needs first, and really as well as it being about you, you know, what they're drawn to, what they're with the feedback they're giving, if you're following that um advice or that I guess thread, then you can basically you can't go wrong, I think.

SPEAKER_02 9:34

What advice would you give to someone starting out a business? There's a lot of there's when you're scrolling, you get influenced. Whether you mean to get influenced, whether it's subconsciously, you start to change how you word things, you start to change how you brand things because of what you see and what you think works. What advice do you give to people to just stay true to them?

SPEAKER_01 9:53

How do you how do you do that? I think it's um I think it's always going back to why you started, and um yeah, definitely. Like, and and some things are okay to transition, like things do evolve. Like I do think when we like if you scroll on Instagram far enough, you're gonna see some really shocking posts. Um and so from that sense I'm glad we've evolved from there. But you know, I think the core message is um has been sustained throughout our journey, which is important, I think. Um but yeah, my advice would be just to um well that first thing, you know, really work out who you are, what sort of business you want, I think is important because growing in a business that isn't right for you is not always gonna end the best way, I think. Um, but you know, in terms of branding as well, um, I think just leaning into your passions, leaning into the things that drive you creatively. Um, you know, if if you are more like that that example you gave, a bit more high-end bougie, what do you want to call it? Boutique, maybe, um, then lean into that, of course. Um if you're a bit more relaxed and that's kind of the thing, that's cool too. But um, yeah, I think just staying true to that. Um and I think like as you evolve, recognising those inflection points, you know, and um because growth, you know, it's easy just to go with the trends, the fads, and like grow a brand that way. Um you know, you could start a drop shipping store with a really trinkety product and probably do really well. But you know, is that I guess a legacy brand that you want to be proud of in 10 years' time when you look back or potentially even exit and sell, right? Um, those are important things to consider as well as well, I think.

SPEAKER_02 11:27

Is that what you want to hang your so fuck hat on? Yeah, yeah. Uh that's really good. At the beginning stage of your business, when you were telling people, hey, I'm gonna get out of financial planning and I'm gonna go all in on this, how did you ignore that that noise?

SPEAKER_01 11:40

Yeah, there's a bit of it. Um, yeah, look, um, I loved my colleagues, my staff, but you know, there's probably a disconnect, like why? Which is fair enough. I totally understand that. Um, I think as well, but family as well, you know. Um I have a very I'm lucky enough to have a very supportive family, but you know, people are on their own journey, so at the end of the day, I think um I think you need to be really confident that this is the right decision for you, is the most important thing. Because if you do like I do take advice from people, and but at the end of the day, everyone is living their own life, and you do need to know that your your destiny, your journey is yours, and you're in the driver's seat. Um, so for me it was like I'm I'm gonna make this work no matter what, this is probably my attitude, and so that probably helps keep locked on a bit and ignore some of that noise. Um, but again, I have a very um supportive wife and co-founder as well, so um I like to think when we're one of us is a bit like, oh, things going well, you know, we we support each other as well. So um having those right people in your corner is really important too, and community, like you know, other business owners. Um, I feel like it wasn't until I'd sort of went all in that I realized just like the amount of business owners around me, and then suddenly I'm like, okay, well, I actually have community I can talk to, um which is nice, yeah, which is super nice, yeah. Yeah, 100%. And the like different industries too. I got friends like um my brother-in-law's in um wedding photography, I got friends in like SaaS and tech, and um, yeah, a lot of times there's not always a huge connection, but you know, you just know when you're having a chat with a business owner there's a whole lot more common ground that you can work off and and give advice and and even hear out their opinions and perspective on your own issues in your business. So um, yeah, it's important to have.

SPEAKER_02 13:23

Yeah, of course. Um, I'm gonna get into the in-depth business questions now. Yeah, let's go. For someone who's not in e-commerce, how does the space work? What are the main expenses and how do you make your profit at the end of the day?

SPEAKER_01 13:34

Main expenses are obviously gonna be sort of like your cogs, so obviously like landed costs of product, um, you know, um freight as well as a big one. Um these days, like all I guess there's the big schools of thought of you know, do you go organic, do you go paid marketing? Um ultimately I think to and this is sort of more D to C, of course, um to exist these days you have to do both, I think. You have to have good organic strategy. Um, but you also have to be doing paid, I think. I think it's hard to, especially in e-com, to get by without paid marketing, meta-ads, Google, Pinterest, TikTok. Um we have actually haven't done TikTok ads, so I can't speak to that yet. But I think I'm a little bit out of the nearly nearly 30 bit out of the TikTok age bracket at this point. But um Same. Yeah, I don't understand it. No, no, not at all. I'm not dancing on anytime soon, but you know, if it if it works, it works. But um I think you know, marketing costs basically. Um Would you say marketing is the biggest cost? I think it is early days. Yeah. I think I think your your time, your best time spent as an early stage e-com founder is in products and making a really good product because um despite all the marketing costs, word of mouth is still the most important marketing. If people have a an average experience with your product, they're not gonna tell their friends about it. Um, they're not gonna leave reviews, all those sorts of things that are kind of I guess the foundations of e-com. Um but on top of that, once you have a great product, once you have a community building, um, marketing, yeah, is is essential, I think. And um really nailing that marketing, like you said before, you know, keeping your brand true to you. Um if you go in a crazy direction with your marketing and it's not true to the brand, people are gonna just notice that disconnect. So yeah, it's all keeping it true to the brand's um messaging, image, all those sorts of things. But um, yeah, marketing cost is definitely required. Um, so I'm just trying to think of other costs as well. Um, look, if you're doing influencer marketing, things like that, there might be a cost there, but I would still categorize that in in marketing itself. So yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_02 15:31

When you first outlaid for your first products and they came in and you made your first sale, what was that feeling like?

SPEAKER_01 15:37

Yeah, that was surreal. It was actually really cool. Um, I'm pretty sure I was at my office, so it was like, you know, that thing of like you almost feel like you're doing the wrong thing and making sales while I'm at my other job and they don't know about it, sort of thing. But um, no, it's a really awesome experience. I think I think just any business owner will will feel this at some point that at the start of their journey. I think it's like that once you step into the realization that I can actually create wealth outside of being employed to someone out of someone else's time and all those sorts of things, it's like a it's a bit of an unlock, I think. I don't know if you've experienced that. 100%, you're just kind of like, oh cool, so I actually can generate money, you know, building something I actually love and passionate about. Like that's huge. Um, obviously, you want to amplify that and keep going and make it your thing, but um, yeah, that was a surreal experience, and um, I think you know, having it building something organically like we did through just like an Instagram account, really, was kind of how we started. Um, to go from that to like you know, our metrics being likes, comments, shares, all those sorts of things to then suddenly sales. It was like, oh wow, okay, this is you know, this is actually something we could pursue potentially. That's amazing. What was your first hero product? Um, well, the first hero product was probably the camera, honestly. Um, you know, we had a few other things, but they kind of took off. I actually have one of our like earliest renditions. OG. OG. It's a little bit dirty because it's been downstairs, locked away, but um, that was like one of our first 35mm film cameras. Um, honestly, very similar in this in terms of function, like still a reusable film camera, still we've got the flash, um, but we kind of realized like our brand image was that aesthetic. Um retro, I guess probably the best word is nostalgia. We want people to feel a sense of nostalgia. I feel like it's retro Aussie. Retro Aussie, yeah. That that works for us.

SPEAKER_02 17:20

Yeah, like the colours and the the font and everything like that. Like yeah, I think Bar and Bay, I think. Yeah, yeah, totally. I think Port Macquarie, I think Van. I used to have a van. I did have a van, yeah, it was uh latte coloured, like a picture of that like right there. So yeah, it a picture surf, a picture all of that. And in terms of like why it's a hero product, why do you think it resonated so much with your audience that you curated that whole time?

SPEAKER_01 17:44

I think um I think film like film cameras themselves as a product, I think, are very um look honestly it's not the easiest product to sell. Like in many ways, like they're very analog, they're very uh tactile, um, and in some ways not convenient, right? It's it's not as easy as just taking a photo and flicking on Instagram. Um but I think that very read those um those friction points were the very reason that some people were just like, I'm done with like digital, I just need a digital detox, like and so a certain type of consumer I think really found these like so awesome for that reason.

SPEAKER_02 18:20

Gen Z especially, yeah, totally.

SPEAKER_01 18:22

I think just inundated with technology these days, it's like you said, it's it's hard to escape from, honestly. And um I think this gives you uh a chance to essentially relive those good old days where all that didn't exist. Yeah. Um the nostalgia of you know actually shooting the the um the shutter and not having the the images directly there for you to look at is an awesome experience and getting them developed. Um it's all very nostalgic, and I think the branding as well, um very quickly it became like a coastal brand, um, which is always what we wanted, um, but it was just solidified once the cameras started selling, and we'll you know, we'll see where they were going, you know, to Byrne and to Perth and then Sydney up the coast, um, so Gold Coast, all those sorts of places were kind of became the hotspots for for buyers. So um yeah, and definitely like we've we've definitely lent into that almost like 70s, 80s uh Australian surf culture vibe as well with the the branding, the the colouring. Um we're doing a bit of a brand refresh at the moment, actually. Nothing nothing too major, no logos are changing, but it's just gonna be, I think, amplified and that's even more we're digging it down into that sort of watch this space. Yeah, watch this space.

SPEAKER_02 19:29

I'm gonna ask an in-depth camera question. Yeah, go ahead. So 35 millimeters, so many. Um how did you nail the functionality of the camera to make it easy enough for people to use for the first time, but also quality-wise?

SPEAKER_01 19:42

Yeah, so we had um a few a few um models. So this is probably our third model, I would say, and each time we've just made those tweaks to make it even better. Um, super happy where we're at now. Um, but in terms of the function, yeah, so we kind of realized um, like I said, I I shot a lot of film back in 2021, even earlier, actually, 2019. I was shooting film. Um and obviously I was an enthusiast, so I was happy to go on marketplace and find like some beautiful pen tax or whatever it might be, or a Canon A one we're talking about earlier. Um, but for a lot of people, they aren't that camera technical. They just want, they just know they love film photos, they just love the feel, feeling they get from um seeing them. So um for those people, I wanted something that's easy, um, compact, easy, um, and essentially just a point and shoot, which is what it is. It there's no manual settings, there's no focus ring, things like that. Um, it's really just loading your film, um, locking it in, turning your advance wheel, and firing away. Um has flash, of course, because that's always a bit of fun.

SPEAKER_02 20:42

A lot of people take it to festivals and so there's no manual um settings at all.

SPEAKER_01 20:46

No, not at all. Yeah, so just um full uh sort of uh point and shoot camera. I guess it's like sort of has that feeling of the disposables while still being reusable. Yes. So that was important to us that we um because we all remember, you know, shooting little disposables and they're super fun, like weddings, they're a big thing at the moment. Um obviously the beauty of reusable um is twofold. One, you get to keep using it. Yes. And the second is you know, you get to hold on to that camera for years to come rather than you know adding to landfill and just chucking it away at the end of your own.

SPEAKER_02 21:15

Did you have to do much education to your customers about which film to use?

SPEAKER_01 21:19

Yeah, so we did um initially for sure. We actually started developing our own film as well. Um so we have through that. Yeah, so we have um uh partners um who are really passionate about film um and they um they sort of create um create crev created this film which we're really happy with. Um it's sort of in likeness, like because you know it's hard to compare film. If anyone knows like a Kodak Ultramax 400 ISO, um that's kind of what our film would replicate the most, I think. Um that as well has been a journey of like getting it improved and improved because film is a chemical miracle to get it fully right. So um, but yeah, we're it's always a journey, and even now we want to make them like Some more options, I suppose. Yeah. Um, but yeah, look, but the best thing about our cameras is they are compatible with any 35mm. So you can run, you know, like a 400 and the classics, black and white. Absolutely, yes. You can um some Fujifilm, whatever it is. So yeah, there's lots of different options there.

SPEAKER_02 22:16

Retail cost?

SPEAKER_01 22:17

Retail cost is 129.

SPEAKER_02 22:19

Yeah, wow.

SPEAKER_01 22:20

Yeah, so they're um they're this they're at this point where um when people grab one, they really um to be honest, we found a lot of people take them on trips and things like that, which obviously, you know, think about it. You're not if you're just working in your office, you're not really tempted to take a photo. It's usually when you're going out and doing something. Of course. Um, and that's been a big part of our um I guess marketing strategy too, is like we're giving them to um van lifers and people who are digital nomads and doing things that I guess uh had that lifestyle aspiration behind it.

SPEAKER_02 22:51

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 22:51

Um and definitely found like a big like um people are doing you know, laps around Oz and overseas and surf trips in Lomblock, heaps of um uh female like surf retreats as well, been hitting us up, giving cameras to all their girls and getting photos while overseas. So yeah, it's a lot of fun, and and I think those are the moments you do want to treasure and capture on the other.

SPEAKER_02 23:12

On the go ones, the development side of things, do you have like preferred developers that you'd send people to or yeah?

SPEAKER_01 23:17

So on our website we have a map actually, which has um a lot of the like I guess our preferred um partners in terms of film labs. Um, but the beautiful thing since really COVID times, um, obviously films had this sort of resurgence. Yeah. Um, and uh as well as that, you know, heaps of film labs are popping up again. You know, ones that were like, you know, on the verge of bust because of digital are kind of like, oh great, we can keep going. Um and some just popping up out of nowhere, really. I think there's one um well, actually, there's a few in Byron that we know the owners of. Yeah, there's a few good ones in Byron. In Gold Coast as well. So yeah.

SPEAKER_02 23:50

Yeah, that's amazing. In in terms of the film cameras themselves, I can tell you've really thought about the customer. You've really thought about, hey, how do I load film? Hey, what film do I use? Hey, where do I develop film? Yeah, hey, how does it work? Okay, cool, I understand it now.

SPEAKER_00 24:04

Yeah, yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_02 24:04

Because even though you've got a love for film cameras, someone might love film but not have the love for the tech side. Yeah. So you've bridged that gap nicely where it's instant enough, simple enough, and you can just purchase it, I'm good to go.

SPEAKER_00 24:16

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 24:16

Um, I have to ask when you first started out, how many roles of film did you go through before you're like, okay, the camera's good now?

SPEAKER_01 24:23

Yeah, fair few, actually. Yeah, I think we've tried a few. Um, I think it's like one of those things where um we wanted to get it as like as great, like the results to be as great as they possibly could. Um the beautiful thing about film is it is very forgiving, like in terms of you know, if the lighting isn't quite right and like if you get a digital camera, you'd be like, oh that needs a few edits. When you shoot it on film, you're kind of just like, oh, that's just a that's just such a nice image. Like, you know, I think film. Yeah, it's very forgiving in a lot of ways. Um, and I think even the imperfections of film people do like like people um you know, obviously people tag us on Instagram, we see people post their film photos. And some of them I'm like, oh, that shot maybe wasn't perfect, but you know, the light leaks come in or something. But people just love that that the vibe, yeah. The vibe, I think. And I'm like, oh that that's cool to know because you know, it doesn't have to be the the perfect shot to be something that's memorable or something that you know taste-wise you love, I guess.

SPEAKER_02 25:16

So did you go through a big UGC campaign? Because um I have an e-commerce brand as well, and the thing that really set us apart is that it's a sports product, and we sent it to a bunch of Olympians that just competed at 2024. Yeah, wow. All of them posted about it, all of them wear it, all of them use it, and that just did this for our business. Like, did you go through a big UGC phase with with marketing?

SPEAKER_01 25:37

I think we have in a sense. Um, like we did um probably one of our biggest collabs was with um a couple Kendall, Kendall and Glenn up on the um they're leaving a tiny home up in the hills of Byron. Yeah, um, but they've done like Lap Around Oz, um actually done years of van travel and that sort of thing. Um but we did like a collab product actually. I don't know if I have it. Um it's the Nigel, is it's like a yellow mustard one. Uh camera. Yeah, camera. I think it's I got two of our best sellers here. I don't think I have that one here. Um, but it's um that was like a co um I guess produced product.

SPEAKER_02 26:11

For for a business owner, how do you how do you approach a collaboration?

SPEAKER_01 26:13

Like that? Yeah. I think um for us it was really finding the right person firstly, like it wasn't just like a cold email, hey, do you want to do this thing? It's it's a relationship we built over a couple years. Um doesn't have to be that way, of course, but um for us it was that very much there was um good rapport there, I guess, and aligned values. They love to shoot film. Um their whole ethos is sort of life in the slow lane, like slowing down, so it's tied in perfectly with film. But um, yeah, for us it was really just um kind of a uh like a profit share, basically, was the like the financial structure of it. Yeah, um, so they would create us a stack of content, uh obviously use their um platforms, they're mostly on uh Instagram, TikTok, and YouTube. Huge actually YouTube um support in their in their community, so that helped our sales too. But um, but yeah, I think it's just aligning with the right people, yeah. Um yeah, and slightly tangent, but I just think a good attitude for most founders is to have um I guess really just like with or without your energy is kind of the way I put it. Um not that's not fully um focused on that example I just gave, but just really having an idea that you feel in very strongly and you're convicted is like the right thing, and then just like telling people, hey, this is happening, like do you want to be a part of it sort of thing, versus you know, just saying to people, oh, you know, would you like to do this? And having maybe more of a passive approach. Um, I'm not like advocating just like going to people.

SPEAKER_02 27:41

But if you want something, you gotta get after it.

SPEAKER_01 27:42

That's right, and I think it's um having that attitude of like I'm doing this, I'm backing myself, this is gonna be amazing, and this is a great opportunity. Would you like to be involved? It's so much more of a convicting, like 100% for people, I think.

SPEAKER_02 27:54

Um in our martial arts centres, when a parent comes in, you can sort of see them, they don't they're not really sold on martial arts or whatever. Yeah. You literally say to them, Do you want your kid to have self-defense skills? Do you want your kid to be confident? Like you just straight out. That's not being aggressive, whatever. Yeah, yeah. It's just what do you want? Do you want this? Okay, let's go. Yeah. Like, don't don't dilly dally. Do you want this? Okay, let's do it. Do you want a collab? Let's do it. I feel like that's the best way for sure.

SPEAKER_01 28:19

Yeah, uh direct but kind. Direct but kind.

SPEAKER_02 28:22

In in coming from the right place. Yeah, 100%. Um, I like that you're talking about founders, that's sort of where I wanted to go to next.

SPEAKER_01 28:28

Yeah, for sure.

SPEAKER_02 28:30

In this world, you can't just build a brand, you've got to build a founder-led brand, you've you've got to be you've got to show your face because consumers want to see the person behind the brand. Yeah. What are your thoughts on that concept? Do you need to do that?

SPEAKER_01 28:44

Yeah, I think um look, the XR thing is you don't need to, but I think today you are sort of handicapping yourself a bit if you don't. Um I think like the best way to approach it is um, yeah, firstly, you're very aligned to your brand, of course. If you're gonna lead, you know, visually and um sort of customer facing lead something that you're not fully passionate about, then yeah, probably don't. That's really true. Until you know it's the right thing for you. Um but if it's it's aligned to your your values, your vision for your own life as well as the business, like they have to align, um, then 100% I think it's I think you'd be doing yourself and your community a disservice to not show up and and visually talk about your brand, your story, your your why even. Um it's not something I've done perfectly, by the way. Um we discussed this earlier. I I need to do better at it.

SPEAKER_02 29:34

What stopped me on your Instagram was the pinned one where you guys tell your journey and like you see the you two together and then the going through the the slide and like reading about it. Yeah, I'm like, yeah, I want to support these guys. Like that one post alone is like, yep, this is a legit brand I want to purchase. So I think founder led stuff is good. I like what you said about if it's truly what you are, then that that's who you are. But if it's not who you are, you shouldn't be doing it. It's very good. It's like if you're not willing to put your face on it, why are you doing it?

SPEAKER_01 30:01

It's a good litmus test, isn't it? Yeah. To be like, if I'm not proud enough to to talk to camera, and like there's obviously that's a whole other conversation of how to be a founder led brand. But um, yeah, if you're not comp enough to to be the um forward facing, then maybe there's a disconnect there that you just need to look inward and and sort that out. But um, but yeah, no, I think most people are passionate about what they're doing and they want to see it succeed. So yeah, just just do it.

SPEAKER_02 30:25

In before I move on to the other products, can you give me like a like a crazy period that you had in terms of sales? Like what what type of numbers are we talking? Like, was your garage full to the top full of full of packaging?

SPEAKER_01 30:37

What what happened? I think um I think the biggest point um where we kind of felt like, oh wow, this actually, you know, actually has a a future, I think, is probably around like sort of like that summer period, like Black Friday and Christmas of 2024, I think it would have been. Yeah, into 2025. Um, yeah, like we'd just been sort of plotting along. Um I had quit my job just the start of that year, so I was kind of like, this is the year I really need things to to look like they're gonna go ahead. Um, yeah, I think we had that and um rounded off our Black Friday period with like 60k months, and I was just like, oh okay, like this is actually something we could be doing. Like, um, so that was that was like a cool moment. Um, and again, back to the thing of like you know, that that sense of okay, like I'm doing something I love, I'm passionate about the community, passionate about the products we're making, and we can make good money. Like, that's just like everything's coming together. Um, like as businesses, there's ebbs and flows of that. Um, but you know, um that's a moment where you kind of just feel like okay, this is legit.

SPEAKER_02 31:39

Yeah, uh run me through your other products real quick. So yeah, let's talk about the cameras. What else are we working with?

SPEAKER_01 31:45

Uh so we've got some hats there, this is sort of our power range. Um, it's something we are like wanting to uh I guess expand on. Um so we uh like I said at the start, we started off as really just the lifestyle um coastal brand, which became a film camera brand. And we're now kind of going back to our roots and trying to bring in back some of the apparel that we always loved. Um my wife and I both love um shout out to your wife, yeah, yeah, that's it. Shout out to that hat too. That's good on you, man. Classic. I think you're gonna walk home with that one. Yeah, yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_02 32:15

Yeah, you wanted to stick to like the classic apparel.

SPEAKER_01 32:18

Yeah, that's it. Yeah, I think um something um stuff that's minimal, um obviously has that coastal flair, um, like not like crazy graphics that feels a bit um busy or whatnot. But um, yeah, just sticking to those roots, I guess, of the of the brand. Really like the cameras are um minimal and uh nostalgic, I guess. Um yeah, so we're wanting to bring some more of that in. Um, you know, winter's coming up here in Australia at the moment. Um, well, it's a few months away, but we've got some some drops coming for that, which we're really excited about. Um, summer as well. So yeah, we're basically um planning out the full year ahead in the apparel space. Um, but yeah, look, we've got some other um like I guess you could say beachware hardware, so like can coolers. Um also don't have it here on display because it's a bit big, but a big um uh retro uh um cooler box. Yeah, Esky something. Um funnily enough, you can't call it an ESC because that's uh that's a business name, it's trademarked. There you go.

SPEAKER_02 33:12

It's a cooler box. Cooler box, there you go. Now you know.

SPEAKER_01 33:15

An old chili bin. Yeah, yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_02 33:18

Uh I like that um you're sort of appealing to the same customer. So if I go to your shop, I'll get a hat for my van, or I'll get like a cooler box for my van. Oh yeah, get uh get a camera.

SPEAKER_01 33:28

Yeah, I think a big um part of it was you know, um for someone if they not that it has to be around travel, um, but you know, if someone were like doing a lap around Australia, that sort of thing, what were the products they would want, right? What are the things they would need or want? Um that probably drives our like I guess in terms of our um research and product selection, a big part of it. But um, but yeah, it's also just true to us, like the things we love to use. Um, you know, like I said, we we we love um you know, we love um minimal coastal fashion ourselves, um, can cause shooting film, all sorts of things like that. So um that's amazing.

SPEAKER_02 34:02

Yeah, I'm gonna ask you a very interesting question. Yeah, what's it like working with your wife? Yeah, it's good.

SPEAKER_01 34:08

Um answer that one very quickly. You had that one ready. No, but um, it is actually amazing. Um yeah, I think it's um look, obviously nothing's no um business relationship is perfect or easy, and when it's with your your your spouse or even just your partner, you realize quickly um it's one of those unique things where you see each other's um strengths and weaknesses at the same time. Like no one's perfect, I'm not great at everything, of course. I'll be the first to say that, and I'm sure she would say it too. But you know, you you work on each other's strengths and weaknesses. I think we do complement each other really well. Um, I'm very much in um sort of like um, you know, website, email, analytics, finance sort of stuff. Um, she's very much in like the social media world driving that, very creative. Um she, you know, design-wise, um, can do a lot there. So yeah, we kind of compliment each other in that sort of sense.

SPEAKER_02 34:59

How do you separate work from home?

SPEAKER_01 35:01

Uh we try, that's probably all I can say. It's a myth, isn't it? Yeah, it's um it's one of those things. I think um I think you have to be okay with like there's gonna be seasons where it's gonna feel very blurred. Um, you know, when there's a product launch or a big campaign, you know, that's gonna go for a c across a few weeks, for example. We just kind of you know sit down and say, this is gonna be a bit crazy, and that's okay. Um, what we're trying to do is have you know, post those seasons have you know at least a a week or two of a bit of more of a um almost like a timeout, I guess, or just like have some quality time. Go like recently we went up to Byron for um a week for um a fr another business owner friends um event. But um it's kind of time for us just to you know feedback into ourselves and yeah uh refresh ourselves from a launch. So yeah, just things like that. I think you've got to like just know that life is in seasons, like business or not, you know, life goes in seasons, but especially in business, you need to recognise when those big seasons and peaks are gonna be, and then just make sure you're looking after yourself on the the troughs of those, I think. Yeah, yeah, I think especially if you're a couple, yeah.

SPEAKER_02 36:05

Um have you got any advice? I'm gonna get into in-depth sort of e-commerce now. Yeah, do you have any quick tips or tricks for people that run Shopify stores? Is there anything that you notice that you've done that really like sort of changed the projection of things or any any like resources that you found online to help you through it all?

SPEAKER_01 36:23

Good question. I think um terms like uh forums and like on technical questions, there's there's heaps out there, but I think um I think m most importantly is knowing um finding that balance of like let's just say a website, a Shopify website, for example, is knowing um when you're making a decision like for branding purposes to make it look good and when it's a functional, you know, conversion rate optimization decision. I think you need a balance of both. Like, you know, there's there's plenty of um call it pretty websites out there that don't convert very well, um, and often it's just about like user experience, people maybe not considering okay, what is the journey you want your customer to be taking when on your website.

SPEAKER_02 37:06

So can you talk to me a bit more about that? What do you mean by that?

SPEAKER_01 37:10

So even um just like terms of above the fold, you know, um most people maybe in e-commerce would know that it's sort of like the first thing a customer's gonna see on your website. It's even as simple as what is the first action you want someone to take? Um, you know, sometimes people just have a beautiful image and that's lovely, but you know, if it's you know, unfortunately, people's attention spans aren't very long these days. So if you're not giving them a reason who you are, what you do, and a reason or a next call to action, really, whether it's you know, shop a bestseller, a new collection, whatever it is, um, chances are you can lose people. Um, so yeah, just things like that I think are important. Um even uh as far as you know um things like increasing your average order value, like for us, um obviously our cameras retail at 129, but because we sell our our film cameras with it, it's little clicks, yeah. Our average order value is closer to 180, nearly 200. Um, so every time we you know we're paying ads to get people to our website, the more we can get on the other end of that sale is obviously more profit for us. Um that marketing spend becomes far more efficient that way. So just things like that. Um, and even like cancellers, things like that, it for another founder, it could be another, you know, almost a gift with purchase, um free gift with purchase, free shipping thresholds, just things like that. I think um I just like once you start, you start to realise oh, okay, if I'm spending money to get people to my store, um obviously there's organic as well and email and other things, but um, you know, marketing does drive a lot of that traffic. Um, you know, how can we be the most efficient here while staying true to our brand? Because you know, we all have seen websites where it's big flashing banners and da-da-da, buy now, you know, time's running out, and and that stuff um might work functionally, but like for if we did it as a brand, it would just would be feel like a disconnect. You know, we're we're promoting slow living, lifestyle. If it felt very flashy and commercial and um like everything's just an exchange, gimmicky. Yeah, gimmicky, it would be a disconnect. So you want to do it true to brand, like keep it a beautiful website and aesthetic, but also just think about the functionalities of what you want customers to do and those some of those just core e-commerce, I think, functions are important to know.

SPEAKER_02 39:21

How how long did it take you to sort of get used to the Shopify system?

SPEAKER_01 39:27

Uh I think um, look, honestly, pretty quick. Shopify is really good these days, I'm not gonna lie. It's um as far as if someone was just starting out, you know, we have our custom website now, but if someone's just starting out, you know, honestly, the free templates are amazing, they're actually so good. Um, like I think you could start a website quite easily these days. Yeah. Um, I think the hard part is branding. Branding's the hard part where you um are known for um for your values, um, obviously your product having a hero product of some sort or a hero collection is important, but and just knowing your customers, I think. Um but yeah, no, Shopify is amazing. I think um if people were to um want to start a store or if they're already just like scaling their own existing store, um, there's so much potential there. The plugins and apps as well, it's just like there's just so many.

SPEAKER_02 40:18

Yeah, I love Shopify. Um I love that you and your wife you have your own lanes. So she's in branding, she's in the field, she's she's taking that car to care that side in your like back end. Yeah. So that works really, really well. Shout out those birds. Yeah. Um, did you did you make any mistakes when you're first starting out with the store that that you learnt from?

SPEAKER_01 40:38

Yeah, I think um I think to start with um we definitely had some you know some months that were quiet to start with, and we sort of think why is this happening? Um I think it's just looking at that full flywheel, like flywheel. What I mean what I mean by that is sort of how everything, or you could call it a funnel really, but how everything connects to each other. So, you know, ads are running to your website, you know, a certain percent, let's call it three percent, might convert on in the moment. That's great. Um a lot of that's means 90% of people aren't going to convert, so where are they going? It's probably you know, website, sorry, um, email capture.

SPEAKER_02 41:14

And you're you're looking at these numbers yourself.

SPEAKER_01 41:16

Yeah, yeah. Yeah, so email capture, where are they going? Obviously, you've got your abandoned cart flows, all those sorts of things. Um, there's far more flows you can be having. Um, but just sort of looking at that customer journey. I think early days we had no idea about any of that. So it was just like, you know, we have a cool product, why won't people buy it? Yeah, yeah. It's like, okay, that's that's great.

SPEAKER_02 41:35

Um when you were at that stage where things were quiet, what was the turning point? But did you did you sort of see that ads were the problem or the website?

SPEAKER_01 41:42

I think at the time it was um almost a bit of both. I think the website, um, like I talked about before, having that clarity, that customer journey, I think, you know, we started to learn more about that. So that's definitely improved and helped, you know, conversion rate, all that sort of stuff. But ads too. Um, I think you know, um ads when we started running ads in 2022, I think it would have been. Um things were a bit more manual back then, um, which is crazy, it's not that long ago, but in terms of the paid marketing space, so much has changed since then. Um nowadays, meta ads is meta in particular, is is quite seamless. Um, the AI generating that um and driving those results is really good. You still obviously need to have know-how to understand the interface and things like that, but um but yeah, no, definitely um I think our ads have improved as well as we've gotten better creative. I think. Um, I think working with the right people again, whether it's UGC or more um like influencers or even just like amazing photographers, we often will find um working influencers can work, but if we find a photographer that's just amazing, honestly, just giving them products and getting some amazing imagery or or video videography from them.

SPEAKER_02 42:52

Um I want to ask you a tough question.

SPEAKER_01 42:55

Yeah, go for it.

SPEAKER_02 42:56

Marketing agencies, right? Yeah, they run your Facebook ads, they run your Google ads, and all that. How soon into the business sales do you think you should even look at a marketing agency? And how much do you think you can actually do yourself?

SPEAKER_01 43:08

Yeah, it's a good question. Um I think look, I I'm a big believer in learning uh virtually everything yourself. Um I obviously this you know accounting, I'm probably not gonna have to do that. Oh, to a degree. But um, you know, I think learning as much as you can yourself is really integral to at least the early stage, the the survival of your business, because you know, you can outsource, you can hire an agency for email ads, um a PR agency or a wholesale uh agent to get you out there, which is amazing as well. All those no none of those things are bad and all those things can move you forward, but they're obviously coming with a cost.

SPEAKER_02 43:45

I didn't even know wholesale agent was a thing.

SPEAKER_01 43:47

Yeah, yeah. We uh we we looked into one. Yeah, there you go, there you go. You might do one this year.

SPEAKER_02 43:51

Um how does that work?

SPEAKER_01 43:52

They just go to the They yeah, generally just have a big network of stores. Um normally you want someone who's like Top tier, um who has even built other brands. Um, but you know, um, yeah, essentially them even having um call them maybe sales reps who go into stores and and say, hey, like you know, surf folk, um, this is how they like to be branded. They actually should be facing this part of the store, what's your turnover? All those sorts of questions that if you were in the store, you'd probably be asking, but you just can't as a founder, you can't be in all your stores. No, of course. So they just can't know that you do that for you. Um, yeah, it's usually just percentage sort of commission or something like that. But um, yeah, that's just like exact exactly just one agency that you could, you know, outsource to. But um, but certainly early days, I think doing as much as you can yourself is really important because not only like um one, you're saving cash flow, which is the most important thing of that early phase. Um, but two, I think as well, um, you're actually learning how everything works, you're learning how all the parts work together in like all the cogs in the machine, so that when you do go to an agency, you can say, Hey, these are these are the results we've been getting. Um, you know, you can admit I'm not unlimited in my knowledge, I'm just a fair you guys do this, but I think it's more just making sure you don't have the wool pulled over your eyes when they just say, Hey, you're getting these ROAS and all these results. It costs this much, yeah. Yeah, and you're just like, Cool, what's my marketing expense ratio? What's my cost um per click? What's with or cost per purchase? What's the things that actually you know are fully like coming out of the case?

SPEAKER_02 45:20

You come in with an understanding already.

SPEAKER_01 45:22

That's right. And you can sort of benchmark um what you've been doing to them. If it's you know the same, that's okay, I guess, but obviously you want to get better results. Yeah, otherwise your your money is probably better spent elsewhere.

SPEAKER_02 45:34

But I I love the in-depth um answers, love it. It helps a lot because most of the listeners are business owners or people looking to get into business. Yeah, for sure. So we'll go get into that part there. What advice would you give to someone looking to get into business?

SPEAKER_01 45:47

Yeah, I think um look, I I honestly just think um one of the biggest things I I think I heard um from um Alex Hormosy, most people know who Alex Hormosy is. Um, this is a clip from one of his um reels recently was um the most money you make is when you provide as much valuable value, sorry, value as possible. Um so providing the most value possible is the main way to generate, I think, um wealth for yourself. So you know, value could be um if you're service-based, it's probably quite clear your service is giving people value, you're even saving people time or or making people money, usually is how it works, or creating assets like videography and stuff that can then be used for those purposes. Um e-com, it's providing value in the sense that your product either solves a problem, um, doesn't always have to, like you know, fashion brands you could say, you could argue they're maybe not solving any problems, like we all have clothes, but they're creating an identity and a lifestyle that people aspire to have, and perhaps that is solving a problem in their life, and that's sort of the direction. Um, for us, obviously, like having film cameras, very analog um product, um, is a deliberate positioning, obviously, against you know digital cameras, um, is to give people a sense of relief from you know just a crazy digital world where they're probably feeling like they're just a part of you know this big consumer society where everyone's like monetizing off their attention online, they just feel like they can disconnect, capture memories, and um almost plug into the real world and make memories with their mates and take photos and all those sorts of things. So, you know, you could argue that is that solving a problem, potentially.

SPEAKER_02 47:25

Yeah, so I like that you're saying provide value and that's that's the answer. What about those that are scared to take that jump? What advice would you give someone who is scared to take the jump and go all in on business?

SPEAKER_01 47:36

Yeah, I think um I think you need to like you know assess your situation, everyone's you know, financial situation might be different. You know, if you've got some some savings there, you can be like, okay, I'm gonna go all in and live off that. That that could be a strategy. Um I would you know believe in in getting some momentum, like proving mostly to yourself that okay, this is this is something I can pursue full-time potentially or part-time at least. Um, but at the end of the day, I think it like if an entrepreneur, if someone is an entrepreneur, they're just gonna have that burning desire to make it, to do the thing and make it work. And if you have that, then you probably will, um, regardless of how you get there, whether you wait till you you know replacing your income or you jump early, like I probably did. Um, I feel like if you have that, you're gonna find a way to make it happen. Um, so just betting on yourself if you feel that. Um again, yes, providing value, like you need to make sure whatever you're doing is providing value to either an individual or the marketplace as a whole, um, because that's you know, people money is attracted to value. And I think the other thing is um what I was told early days is money loves speed. Um, so if you are thinking about it, like probably just get started. Like, don't think, you know, oh maybe next year I'll, you know, life still change a bit, things will slow down, maybe then I can start my business. If just do it now, just do it now because the things you find out along the way mean so much more than any like pre-planning you'll do. Like if you just plan the the perfect execution of a drop or if it's e-comm or if it's a service-based, you know, this is my pitch, how I'm gonna get customers, like that almost means nothing until you actually do the thing. Yeah, I yeah. And then you find out.

SPEAKER_02 49:13

I I always tell other people in business that ask me for advice, I say, Yeah, you you might have lost this little opportunity here, but the the skills that you've learned along the way, they're gonna help with the next thing. And then they come back to me later, yeah. You know what? Because I learned how to do this then and failed, I actually did it again in this other scenario, and it helped me so much.

SPEAKER_01 49:32

Yeah, 100%.

SPEAKER_02 49:33

It it always it always comes back around, and then you're never really losing, you're just learning. Yeah, I know that sounds super cheesy, but it's honestly the truth.

SPEAKER_01 49:40

Yeah, yeah, it is, and it's like and it's just like I just think into like a tool belt every time you're doing something, you just add into that tool belt. Yeah, you've got stuff to take into your future, whether it's another venture or just to you know scale your current one.

SPEAKER_02 49:52

Yeah, just make enough to make ends meet, and then the rest is learning. So the more you can learn, the better, and then you cash out much, much later. Um, to wrap up, what is next for Surfolk?

SPEAKER_01 50:02

For Surfolk, um, I think for us it is really expanding um the product range. Um, like I said, like our cameras have been you know a hero product for a while now, and and we're actually bringing out a few different products. Um, we do have a uh a digital screenless camera coming out soon. So it's gonna be essentially a digital camera but has no screen out the back. Nice. Um so it gives people that I guess nostalgic feel, but with modern ears, really. Backup. There's a backup, yeah, that's right. Because some people, you know, um they love the idea, but they just think, oh, I don't have time to shoot film, I don't know where to send it. So there are those, you know, those friction points, and it's just like to give them a little bit of an easier option. Um the film enthusiasts will always choose film though, because they love the look. Um, we're also um gonna be on the iconic next week. Nice. So we're we're gonna be excited. Congratulations to their platform. Yeah, thank you. It's been um it's been a journey, but um yeah, it's it's a really great platform, of course. Most people, I think, you know, we've got a pitch deck and all those things. I think one in five households around Australia orders from the iconic, so it's potentially gonna be a great platform and channel for us.

SPEAKER_02 51:07

It's gonna be an incredible platform. Yeah, and uh last question for you what is the best piece of business what is the best piece of business advice you have received?

SPEAKER_01 51:15

Ooh, I think it would be I think it would be to um to just uh believe in your ability to figure things out. I think it's kind of broad and and ambiguous, but you know, I feel like there's actually a skill in figuring things out and actually backing yourself in that sense. Um so I've always believed, you know, I'm definitely not the best marketer, definitely not the best even product developer, all those sorts of things. Um, you know, technical, you know, SEO, I'm terrible at, so many things. But I I've always backed in my ability to figure things out. Um, and I think when you an entrepreneur, when you are an entrepreneur, um and you have that tenacity within you, you just know, okay, like if I don't know how to do this thing, that's cool. Give me a week, I'll figure it out. Um you have to be an expert at everything, yeah. That's what teams are for, and growing team and you know, agencies, you know, if that's your your um your journey. But yeah, just that ability to figure things out. And if you feel like you have that, then just back yourself and believe in it because uh you will you will figure it out if if um if you want it bad enough.

SPEAKER_02 52:23

Yeah, amazing. Uh honestly, I want to thank you so much for coming on the pod. I got a lot out of it. I know a lot of the listeners will get out of it. Uh I know a lot of the listeners will love it. They there's so much juicy content to get out of this thing. Uh the e commerce stuff, the founder stuff, the mindset stuff, it's all great things. Uh, if you want to follow Dave's journey, I'll leave his links down below. If you want to have a look at the products, I have uh his links down below as well. Um, but honestly, thanks so much for coming on the pod, man. I really appreciate it.

SPEAKER_01 52:47

Thanks for having me, dude.

SPEAKER_02 52:48

It's great, beautiful.

SPEAKER_01 52:49

That's it, bruv.