Max | E Types, Silver Shadows & the Queen of the hard shoulders with The Tyre Kickers (Part 2)

The Old Car Lady is back with Max from The Tyre Kickers for Part 2. This time it’s about the cars they love now: E types, XJS, Silver Shadows and a Porsche 928 that kept catching the eye.

They go through the quick fire round, get deep on E types and XJS’s, debate original paint versus respray, and end with Sam’s dad’s 1984 stock book, with the day to day trade deals like a Merc 280 SE bought for £2,375 and sold for £2,800. Two Porsche 928s in the corner. And a spin in the Mercedes SL R107 to finish.

Featured Stories

How The Tyre Kickers Was Born: Max and Matt have known each other 30 years from Radio One Newsbeat. During Covid they were on Autotrader six hours a day. Matt said why not make a podcast. Episode 53 was recorded the week of this conversation.

The Silver Shadow Research Period: A year and a half of research, club membership and chassis number study. He very nearly bought one the week before recording. Sam is entirely encouraging this.

The Quick Fire Round: Cash or banking? Auction or private sale? Original paint or respray? Manual or auto? Barn find or concours? Short answers, strong opinions.

Dad’s Stock Book: January 1984. A 280 SE bought for £2,375, sold for £2,800. Cars that would be collectible today changing hands at prices that seem impossible now. Every registration number still traceable and Sam I’d planning a YouTube series around it.

Antiques on Wheels: Online banks wouldn’t take car traders so Sam opened one as an antique dealer. Technically accurate. Old stuff, easy to move. She stands by it.

What You’ll Learn

Why the series two E type 4.2 manual is the one to drive. Why a fresh respray on a classic is always a risk. How the CAP and Glasses Guides worked against each other but well together. Why building a history file from scratch can sometimes be as satisfying as inheriting one. And why the RREC build sheet is worth every penny.

Key Questions

• Is original paint always worth more than a respray? Max and Sam both say yes, partly for the story and partly because a fresh respray hides as much as it reveals. You never quite know what it will look like in six months and it’s only original once!
• Should you buy from a dealer or a private seller? Both come down firmly on the side of dealers and auction houses. The biggest crooks Max has bought from were private sellers. At least with a dealer there is a process and proper mediation if something goes wrong.
• Is a car that’s been raced or modified still worth having? Max wants factory spec. Sam allows for safety upgrades where the case is clear. Both agree the story of the car is what you are really buying.

A Nod To

The Tyre Kickers podcast with Max and Matt on Apple Podcasts, Spotify and all platforms. Find them at @thetyrekickersuk. The RREC, whose original build sheets are available for a small fee and are absolutely worth it. And Sam’s dad’s stock book and book collection which is going to be a YouTube series.

Vintage and Classic Car Competitions: use code SAM15 for 15% off. Dodo Juice: use code SAM10 for 10% off.

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This has been a Worth A Listen Production.

Transcript

SPEAKER_01 0:05

Hi, I'm Sam, the old car lady, and welcome back to part two of Dealers Keggs edition on my interview with Max from the Tire Kickers. If you haven't listened to part one yet, please do go back and give that one a listen too. So this week we get into his car's property. He types XJS, silver shadows, and Porsche. And for photos of a very young Max in his early motors, please do have a look at my social media at the old car lady. We do a quick fire round, have a quick flip through one of my dad's original stock books from January 84 and finish with a spin in Max's O and O Summit drone all the way up from Gloucestershire. So please do look out for that one on YouTube. Do stay to the end, we've got some promotions and discounts. So let's get into it. So you go off to uni to study politics.

SPEAKER_02 0:46

Yes. What did you do after that?

SPEAKER_00 0:48

Uh I joined the BBC. I became a journalist, mainly because I like cars and I started writing about cars when I was a kid. So when I was nine, I had an article in the Wolsey Hornet and Riley Elf magazine because I bought a Woolsey Hornet for I think 12 or 15 quid. Because I like the grill on it. So I bought one of those when I was about eight or nine with my pocket money. Because he was very good. He'd sell me kind of cars that got some drive.

SPEAKER_02 1:14

He's like a dealer.

SPEAKER_00 1:15

He's like a dealer. Giving me these kind of cars and think hooking me. I think I don't think he wanted me to be a car dealer, because by the time it got to the nineties, when I was 19, 20, 21, it had changed completely from what it was like in the world.

SPEAKER_02 1:28

My dad didn't want me to do it. He told me it was no gain for a bird.

SPEAKER_00 1:30

Okay. Thanks for that. Did he pat you on the head at the same time?

SPEAKER_02 1:33

Good girl.

unknown 1:34

No.

SPEAKER_00 1:35

So I I I yeah, I'd never wanted to do it. And also I was rubbish because I'd fall in love with the car and I'd just say, oh, whatever you want, assign on the dotted line. I'd never made money on a car apart from a Hillman Lynx. But yeah, he didn't want me to do it and I couldn't do it. I couldn't be that affable with people because I just didn't have the patience with customers. Because I saw so many annoying customers, and you just think, just buy the car. Stop faffing around by it. And there's a lot of people were very nervous about spending small amounts of money. And this is before finance. So you actually had to buy a car with real money or a very expensive banknotes. So people were quite careful and they wanted it to last forever.

SPEAKER_02 2:10

Yeah. People will buy a car for and they would have it for 15 years. The whole pride of ownership thing, which we've talked about before, and we talk about at great length on both our podcasts, is that's the beauty of the classic car world now, because owning your car and having that pride of ownership is very much restricted to our world now. I don't think it happens in modern cars anymore.

SPEAKER_00 2:27

And I think car traders they had a bad reputation, but deal it, the customers, they were the people who were doing the clocking. Because regularly cars would come back that he had sold with less mileage on it from a private customer because they'd got the drill out and put it on reverse, locked it backwards. So it was the customers, I think, the dodgy people, not the car dealers.

SPEAKER_02 2:43

Trevor Burrus, I think the problem is if you're selling a car as a dealer, you have to either you have to declare any known faults or put them right. Yeah. As a private seller, you just say, No, there's nothing wrong with it. It's great, there's no comeback.

SPEAKER_00 2:54

Oh, lots of part exchanges would be coasting in because they wouldn't work. So they'd be coasting into the drive, and then people would park them and say, Yeah, it's fine, it's got a couple of little problems. Ran one part. Exactly. It's like the classic, oh, the aircon just needs weak acid. It's an entire new aircon system. Oh, it could be a fuse. Exactly.

unknown 3:11

Just a fuse.

SPEAKER_00 3:12

But the sales through the MOT, why have you done it then? So I think it was actually the customers who were dodgy, and he had an amazing ability to put up with people talking nonsense. And people just being really difficult. And he was very patient with me.

SPEAKER_02 3:23

See, that bit my dad wasn't good at. Okay. And got worse.

SPEAKER_00 3:26

Yes.

SPEAKER_02 3:26

So he absolutely I just think that he just didn't have much time for messes.

SPEAKER_00 3:31

Yes, which there there was a lot of them, wasn't there, let's face it.

SPEAKER_02 3:34

Yeah, I think once we sold the showroom and went to web-based advertising, so we had a storage unit and advertised on the internet, it was by appointment. Yes. And that suited my dad a lot better because by the time they came to see the car, we'd qualified them, we'd spent quite a lot of time on the phone with them. Yeah. And you're not wasting your time. They're coming to see the car, they're not wasting their time or yours.

SPEAKER_00 3:56

Did you put the price on the adverts or was it POA? I I hate POA. So do I hate POA. I hate POA. What's the fucking point? Exactly. Just tell us what you want to charge for. What's it for sale for, please? POA and people who refer to the cars and adverts as motor cars. They're not motor cars, they're cars. You're just trying to be posh. You're just trying to be a posh car.

SPEAKER_02 4:14

I don't see I have a thing about sort of pre-war cars, I would sort of motor cars. I don't I think there was an era where it it was a motor car. I don't I don't I've never really thought about that one. Okay, yeah.

SPEAKER_00 4:24

It's just that it's that dealer advert speak, isn't it?

SPEAKER_02 4:26

Do you name your cars? No, I don't. I don't either. And I have a bit it's like what you call your car? The car. But I just don't understand it.

SPEAKER_00 4:32

I don't demonise them. Um I do talk to them.

SPEAKER_02 4:35

I do talk to them. Yeah. Do you I do the come on darling, don't let me down this morning. I'm in a bit of a rush. Yeah, not now. And I do the yeah, you look after me and I look after you conversation with them.

SPEAKER_00 4:44

And also I'm very in tune with it. You hear a slight misfar, you hear a you smell a slight darkness.

SPEAKER_02 4:49

Whipping burning. I say that. You think, does that smell burning like that? Can you smell that?

SPEAKER_00 4:55

Can you smell burning? The oldest thing with the manuals is drop the clutch and check for the blue smoke coming in the back. Yeah. Because that was always a giveaway, wasn't it?

SPEAKER_02 5:01

Yeah, or you pop something into reverse and see if it jumps uh on the autos. But there's also a deep joy to looking at a a cluster on your dashboard, you can see what your oil pressure is. You can see what your temperature is, you can see what your amps are what your amps are.

SPEAKER_00 5:14

And I yeah I that's a very good early warning sign of things going wrong.

SPEAKER_02 5:17

Of course it is. The fur you know, we've had this conversation before about compression. Do you warm them up, do you drive them straight off? But I think that oil pressure is a really good indicator of engine health. And we just don't get that anymore.

SPEAKER_00 5:30

And something's going wrong. So that's the time to stop. I don't need to stop light flashing at me at that point.

SPEAKER_02 5:34

It's like limp mode isn't a new thing, it's just it was manual. So you would realise something's wrong and you would limp it home. You would drive home very slowly, very carefully, putting your hazards on. Putting your engine. Yeah. Come by with your arm out the window and all that sort of thing. So limp mode isn't new, it's just it was manual.

SPEAKER_00 5:52

And also the skill of towing, because I remember towing my brake. Towing on being towed, yeah. And constantly you'd always keep the brake on to keep the rope taut. Yes. And then you come home and the brakes were cooked on the car that was being towed, but it didn't matter, just cooled them down. So I towed them out, broke down in loads of places, towed them in loads of places. We had a permanent on-tow sign. So there'd be a trade plate and an on-tow sign. Yeah. And the pleased pass engine running inside. Remember those?

SPEAKER_02 6:20

Yeah. You wouldn't go anywhere without your tow rope because either you might need it or somebody might phone you for a rescue when you had your tow rope in the back. And yeah, I yeah, on the on tow I think there is there's lots of fine the fine art of the bump starts disappearing. Yeah, absolutely. The fine art of towing's disappearing. Chok choke out. Manual tow.

SPEAKER_00 6:36

That was a skill. Yeah. I he always used to travel with his trade plates, a spare tank of fuel, a tow rope, jump leads, and at least three packets of facts. Yeah. And he would just smoke his way through 60 a day with a collection of jump leads.

SPEAKER_02 6:49

But we when we did you stay at bonnet up bingo for a journey.

SPEAKER_00 6:52

How many times will the bonnet be upon the way to overheating was always a big thing, isn't it?

SPEAKER_02 6:56

But here's the thing, no no need to panic. Your engine's overheated. So you pull over, you pop your bonnet, you let the steam go, you have you try and susite if there's anything obvious as to why.

SPEAKER_03 7:06

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 7:06

Is the water or you've just been stuck in traffic? Yeah. And the engine is just literally overheated. But you used to let it cool down, get it going again, limp it home.

SPEAKER_00 7:16

He would say you're always going to get there. You might not get there in time, you might not get there on the same day, but you will always get there. Yeah. Usually being towed around the back of a recovery truck. But all those cars, they were quite relatively simple to fix. And you pretty much he wasn't a mechanic, but he knew what was wrong with him because he'd been around with him for so long. Yeah. And they always when a customer came and complained about something going, Oh, it's all right to come and fault on those. It wasn't, the engine's falling out. That was the loyalty of customers, particularly in the sixties and seventies, that he would be a BL dealer and people would buy a brand new Allegro, and it it would rust and the engine would fall out and the gearbox would collapse, everything would go wrong, and they'd come back and they'd say, This engine is gone, the the car's rusty, it's a year old, or your gearbox is gone. Can I have another one, please? So they were so loyal, they kept on buying the same crap cars. And partly I think that's what kept BL going, because there was a strange kind of British loyalty.

SPEAKER_02 8:08

There was an acceptance that the cars were slightly rubbish and wouldn't last very long necessarily, and you would just bring them back. I told a story once about a customer that kept bringing a car back because he said, Look, it just it's just making a really odd noise, particularly on the motorway at speed. So the salesman had taken it round the block and and it would be fine. He said, Look, we'll get it on the motorway. And he said it just howls at the motorway like it's just really struggling. And it turns out that it was a gear knob, a four ski uh four-speed gear knob that'd been put on a five-speed gearbox. We didn't realise that they had to have fifth gear. So it'd obviously been slung in a workshop at some point. Oh, okay, yeah. And they'd done sort of some sort of quick repair. They'd had some.

SPEAKER_00 8:59

We should have been able to tell no rev counter.

unknown 9:01

No rev canter.

SPEAKER_02 9:02

He bought it auction, I don't think he looked at that. It was the low mileage that got him in. I look back with and I don't look back with rose tinted specks. I look back with genuinely happy fond memories. Oh, it's great, childhood. And gratitude for what it's left me with. This is this world that we live in is it's I know it's quite niche, but to be part of the classic car world is fabulous.

SPEAKER_00 9:22

For so many years, particularly what I when I wasn't working with cars, I wasn't doing anything with cars. So I had this kind of burden of just such pointless knowledge about and I'd think, why have I got this knowledge? But now as I got older, it's come into itself because you've got back into it as an enthusiast because there's a good culture. And amongst us, the knowledge of the difference between an L and a G L is quite important now, isn't it? Which is for so many years it was just pointless knowledge sitting in my brain.

SPEAKER_02 9:45

Murdery. I can't I get so excited when I get a car to go through the file.

SPEAKER_00 9:48

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 9:48

And I've been going through some old Rolls Royce books at the moment for Phantom Twos and Threes and 2025s, and they give you every chassis number.

SPEAKER_03 9:56

Oh, yes.

SPEAKER_02 9:56

And the date it left, who bodied it, with what body, and it gives you the name of the first owner and the country it went to.

SPEAKER_00 10:03

So it was That is goldmine. That's exciting, isn't it? Matt always, because on our podcast, Matt isn't quite as much of a nerd as I am. So whenever he mentions a car, it's just, do you know anything about this? And then suddenly I'm like He said this in last week when we recorded it, which is out this week. He said, Oh, something about a Jensen FF. He said, Yeah, first production car with ABS breaks. And it was developed by the Ferguson Formula Racing Food.

SPEAKER_02 10:25

In terms of engineering, a really significant car.

SPEAKER_00 10:27

Ahead of its time. Yeah. And I could hear him in the back of the room.

SPEAKER_02 10:29

And they only produced in really small numbers.

SPEAKER_00 10:31

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 10:31

They're worth quite a lot now, aren't they?

SPEAKER_00 10:32

Yeah. Yeah, they are the one to have. Yes. But they're very complicated. That four wheel it was like a kind of tractor four-wheel drive system, wasn't it?

SPEAKER_02 10:39

It would terrify me. I wouldn't I'm not sure I'd want to own one for fear of something going wrong halfway through every day.

SPEAKER_00 10:43

There's a lot to go wrong on that, isn't it? But a great car. It's one of the cars I'd like somebody else to have, like the Mercedes 300 SEL 6.3s.

SPEAKER_02 10:50

I love that other people have them.

SPEAKER_00 10:52

So do I, but I wouldn't want one myself.

SPEAKER_02 10:53

No, I wouldn't. I and I find that the older I get, my my change in cars changes with my age for the cars I want. So there was a time where like I loved a 70s 911.

SPEAKER_03 11:04

Yes.

SPEAKER_02 11:04

And now I've slid into my 928 years.

SPEAKER_03 11:07

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 11:07

Because it it's automatic and it's a cruiser and it doesn't give me backache.

SPEAKER_03 11:11

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 11:11

And it doesn't put me in the hedge. And it always tends to face forwards, even on a wet band and stuff like that. What used to f I find exciting and what I used to want out of my motoring with my motor cars. Candy motor cars. POLE is changing and evolving. And I think that's the wonderful thing about the classic car world is that it's an ever it's a revolving door, it's an ever-changing position.

SPEAKER_00 11:31

And particularly the way we grew up with a different car every night, is that I'm a bit of a tart when it comes to cars. I own one for about 18 months. Within the first six months, I won't look at auto trade and then suddenly I'm into auto trade.

SPEAKER_02 11:41

The honeymoon period. Who comes next?

SPEAKER_00 11:43

So I've never really stuck with one. I I've never understood people at car shows. If I'd had this car for life, I bought it new and I've had it for 25 years. Oh you're bored. Yeah. It's something else. Because I think that's the fun. It's the trading and the looking and the anticipation of the auto.

SPEAKER_02 11:56

Scratching the itch, though. Scratching the itch as well. So I've always fancied one. I've always fancied one of those, like the shadow. You've got to have one.

SPEAKER_00 12:02

I'm inching there. I'm quite cautious when it comes to it. Matt always on the podcast, he always takes the Mick because I have to do the re there's a research period for about a year and a half where I learn everything I can about them. Join the c then I join the club, then I'm looking at chassis numbers, and then I'm actually annoying dealers by knocking on the door and see one will drive past me and I'll think, Bloody hell, they look well quite fancy one of those.

SPEAKER_02 12:23

By half ten and two bottles of wine later, I've I've got one on the trailer coming in the morning. I I go the other way.

SPEAKER_00 12:27

Okay. Matt's like that. He's just fired instantly. Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 12:31

Because after 18 months, I don't I think the itch should be gone, I think. I don't know.

SPEAKER_00 12:35

There's some itches that don't go away. Dolly Sprint, Alpha Spider Duetto, not the Camtail. Yeah, I'll give you that. Silver Shadows, XJ6s, XJ12s. I've had a couple of XJ6s when I was younger and loved those. Manual XJS. Series, early series manual XJSs.

SPEAKER_02 12:50

I fell deeply in love with one year before last. I had it in here for about six months. Oh the 3.6. 3.6 manual, the straight six. Sweet spot for me with an XJS. I think it for things like I I know the V12s are fabulous cars and I've had one, I've had a convertible, I loved it. The reality is if I want an automatic cruiser, I'd rather have a shadow or a 928. But I think that the 3.6 manuals, I don't see the payoff of the 4 litre to be fair, a bit of extra weight, bit of extra power. I think the 360s are really nimble.

SPEAKER_03 13:16

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 13:16

But my god, they drive well. When they're good, they are amazing.

SPEAKER_00 13:21

Spiritual successor to the E-type, because the E-type, the 4.2 manuals, that was such a good car. So 3.6 is a great XJS.

SPEAKER_02 13:28

They're brilliant. Just put a massive smile on my face and they are so little money. They really are. I think that in terms of cars I could have and keep XJS's, shadows all day long. I think the thing with the shadows, you know what? If you can find one for sale with somebody you know who it's been their car for a few years, you know any niggles, any quirks, you know what they've had done. They'll be honest about what needs doing. Yeah. And that's what you could probably do with picking one up that you know of.

SPEAKER_00 13:57

It's interesting, isn't it? Because lots of private buyers think their car's worth a fortune. Because well, one's for sale in for£50,000. Yeah, but it's got seven miles on it. So of course it's got fifty grand in it. Yeah. They don't realise how bad, and then you offend them. I've always been a bit I quite like going to car dealerships because I get them. So I always quite like dealing with dealers rather than the general public. Oh, it's an easy deal. It really is. Yeah, I'll have it when I'll drive it.

SPEAKER_02 14:20

I'll give you that for it. Yay or nay. It's below book. Yeah, it's below book. It's a no thanks, no problem. If you change your mind, give us a shout. I'll leave the off on the table.

SPEAKER_00 14:27

And leave it on the table. I'll leave it there to rot on a Friday afternoon. By Monday, you'll be calling me. Particularly at the end of the month or the end of the financial.

SPEAKER_02 14:34

Walk away. Walk away or the end of the quarter, anything like that. The Vatman cometh. Oh.

SPEAKER_00 14:38

Oh the Vatman. I said I mentioned the Vatman. Because Dad's smokes and blokes was entirely male. And then halfway through the Vat inspector was replaced by a woman. No game for a bird. She did her kind of like region. So she did all the car traders in Worcestershire. And Mrs. Vatman was feared. And they tried she didn't smoke, so they tried to deter her first by just chain smoking even more than normal. So it's just a f she was try she couldn't even see the receipts, so it blocked out the c cigarette smoke. But they didn't deter her, so she was just feared. And they used to talk about her in hush tones, Mrs. Vatman's coming.

SPEAKER_02 15:12

Pass you on there go, Max. We need to I get it going. I can remember I was speaking to a Vatman once and he said that they he could tell in seconds when he walked in somewhere whether or not he was going to have a problem. And he said the minute you get something like, now what you need to know, son, it's all up there. It's like they if you find a dealer that had a filing system with receipts in some sort of an order, you would spend very little time with them. You didn't need to worry about them. It was the ones that didn't have receipts. Yeah. And it was just all up there.

SPEAKER_00 15:42

Oh no. Mum used to do the accounts for him, and then I used to do some of the accounts for him, but he did the VAT himself and it never quite worked out.

SPEAKER_02 15:50

It's quite telling, isn't it?

SPEAKER_00 15:51

And nobody was allowed to touch VAT apart from him. So I think that the VAT was very difficult.

SPEAKER_02 15:59

I think the VAT steam came 7980 on used cars. Yeah. Funnily enough, round about the time we emigrated. Were the two linked? No, they were. No, they weren't.

SPEAKER_00 16:10

Yeah, I remember the VAT coming in. The VAT was a big thing. Yeah. And that would take up a lot there'd be a lot of smoking, a lot of receipts every quarter. Yeah. And he'd be squirreled away in his office for a day or so trying to get the VAT to do it.

SPEAKER_02 16:20

Yeah, a lot of banging and smashing. So we're going to fast forward a few years now. Okay.

SPEAKER_00 16:24

How did the Tire Kickers podcast come about? The Tire Kickers came around because Matt and I have known each other for 30 years. We used to work together. We were both newsreaders and reporters on Radio One Newsbeat, which if you remember that. Well, it still got to be. It's a kind of like big Radio One news show. So we used to do that together. And then we'd just swap cars all the time. So we'd buy useless cars and think, oh look at this. So I think I had an E9 BMW 3 litre CSA, so the automatic one, which was gutless. And I can't remember he had a camtail now for spider.

SPEAKER_03 16:51

Oh wow, okay.

SPEAKER_00 16:53

In the mid-90s. So we had a great time in London. Then I had an E-type in a lock up in Shepherd's Bush. And the lock-up was really dodgy, so I had to only go there at certain times where there weren't drug deals. If you wanted it at night, you just wouldn't go. I was mugged for my watch once trying to get my e-type. Watch is 200 quid. The e-type is five grand. You took the watch, because obviously you couldn't get rid of an e-type. So we'd known each other for a long time. We have a healthy disrespect for each other and each other's like car choices. And over COVID, because we were stuck at home, like everybody, we were just Yeah, I was on auto trading for six hours a day. Looking for things to do. Yeah. Looking for stuff to do. So we just swap car adverts and then talk about them. And then at the end of COVID, we said, why don't we turn this Matt's idea, he's far more technically able than I am. He said, Why don't we do a podcast? So basically we've just because we just do an audio podcast, we've got microphones in each other's homes, we link them up on the internet, and then we just chat. And because we were radio journalists, we know how to edit, so the editing side of it is relatively easy. And it's a lot easier than TV to do an audio podcast. So we just started doing that and we started it without a plan. And we just chatted and chatted. And now we're at we just did episode 53 last week, which is our So you started in 2024, did you?

SPEAKER_02 18:03

So there's a brilliant back catalogue to do up. Is it really like?

SPEAKER_00 18:15

You and I chatting.

SPEAKER_02 18:15

I think the Cadillac, the car's the star, because we took the 62 Cadillac Cute de Villa. I was so close to buying that.

SPEAKER_00 18:20

Oh. I had to play mum on that, so don't let her know I'm gonna buy it. Don't let her But actually you'd sold it pretty soon after I looked at it. But another two weeks I would have bought it.

SPEAKER_02 18:28

I reckon I could have played the game and had you into that within ten days.

SPEAKER_00 18:31

But I decided not to. Yeah, you could have pushed. I was so in love with that car.

SPEAKER_02 18:34

It's do you know what? And I know I've mentioned this to you before. The one thing with a lot of my cars is if you can get someone behind the wheel, you've sold it.

SPEAKER_00 18:42

Yeah, you don't need to do the job. The car's doing the job for you. So the podcast is now it's going, we've got 55,000 downloads, which is quite good. That's incredible, yeah. We're doing it for fun, really. We're not doing it for any other reason. And it is good fun, and we do just get on and bicker and moan and but I think that's the beauty of it.

SPEAKER_02 18:59

Like me and you would be a shit podcast because we have very similar taste and we agree on a lot of things. Yeah, we just go car full car nerd.

SPEAKER_03 19:05

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 19:06

But I love the fact that you and Matt have such opposing views, and you are and and you obviously know each other well enough to not worry about offending each other when you having the baby.

SPEAKER_00 19:14

It's impossible to offend each other. I think he thinks I'm an idiot, and I know he's an idiot. So it all works out there. So I know I'm not an idiot, obviously. But we just have a great laugh doing that. And it's we started putting the outtakes in halfway through because just the bickering that goes on behind the scenes is enormous.

SPEAKER_02 19:30

I filmed a very short bit with you at the NEC in November. Yes. And it was hilarious because we were talking about the Aspada. I'm a huge fan. Love it. Yeah. Um there was a conversation in our house when we when we were little about my mum having a two-seater and my brother getting a bit bigger in ED4 seats, and Aspada arrived. So I've got very fond memories of it. I think they're beautiful. And you obviously agree with me because you also have great tasting cars. And Matt was saying, I stand back and it looks a bit ugly. And there's a little bit where oh you're in the background saying, Hello, Marcello Gandini. And it was just brilliant. Shut up. Shush now. And it was just, it was the dynamics between you was absolutely fantastic.

SPEAKER_00 20:09

We know each other so well. So every time he mentions his stag, I mention the fact it's not the same factory colour, because it was resprayed and just overheating. So yeah, what's the temperature gauge doing today on that? Because I know it's going to overheat, and he was always taking the mic out. Is he not tempted to change the cooling system? It seems to be working. I think he's got the he's got the kind of upgrade on it, which has got a slightly bigger cooling tank. Okay. And he's got the right.

SPEAKER_02 20:29

You can get an Ali radiator for those, can't you?

SPEAKER_00 20:31

Yeah, and I think you might have to.

SPEAKER_02 20:32

Similar to the Series 1 E-type upgrades.

SPEAKER_00 20:35

Yes, that's right. And it's quite effective on that. Because Series 1 E-types used to cook in traffic.

SPEAKER_02 20:38

They just cook themselves for fun. And uh because uh the the those beautiful like bonnet levers they put on were to avoid the bonnet being loaned off when they're gonna be.

SPEAKER_00 20:48

Remember e-types, but uh particularly before the series three.

SPEAKER_02 20:50

So we have a seem to escape.

SPEAKER_00 20:54

They always used to be difficult to restart when they were hot because it got fuel vaporization. It was so hot under there, just all vaporized.

SPEAKER_02 21:02

I'm I'm a huge fan of of a series two. Me too. I they're they're the ones for me to drive. I've been very lucky that I've been able to drive ones, twos, threes, manuals, autos. Yeah. And the one that puts a big smile on my face is a series two manual. That's if I was gonna have an easy light. Yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_00 21:19

Fantastic.

SPEAKER_02 21:19

Yeah. That's light, nimble. And also they handle really well. Yeah. The thing I've got to bear in mind as well is that I'm five foot three and sliding into my my later years. I I don't want to wrestle big, heavy, cumbersome cars anymore. I don't want a car that fights me all the way. And I've got a customer who's looking, I'm looking out for a C3 Corvette for him at the moment. Okay, nice. And he bought that Kamaris E twenty eight off me and him and his dad are gonna get one. And they wanted a big block manual. And it's do me a favour, yeah, find one to drive first, because I like driving the small block manuals or I'd I I'd rather drive a small block automatic. Those big block engines.

SPEAKER_00 21:56

Yeah, just too heavy.

SPEAKER_02 21:57

It's not I don't like driving them. And I think that's the thing. With the E-type, I think the Series 3 just got a bit big and heavy and wide encumbers. I mean, they were made for the American markets, they were made for big straight race. The S every Series 1 I've ever known has just cooked itself for fun. But the Series 2s.

SPEAKER_00 22:11

It's a sweet spot. I had a Series 2 R VR 9J in 1971, Series 2, and I think that's probably the longest car I had. I think I had it for about two, two and a half years. Because you were front to go to the garage to get it. Exactly, yeah. But I took that all round Ireland, and I will give you a Series 2 eat-up going from second to third, flat out, is a thing of beauty because you've got the noise, you've got that that that flexibility, that torque to go from sort of 1200 revs all the way down to four and a half.

SPEAKER_02 22:41

It's a very responsive engine, though.

SPEAKER_00 22:43

Single steel exhaust on those, they sound amazing.

SPEAKER_02 22:44

Yeah, underrated, I think they 4.2 series 2s. Yeah, I have another one of the shot. What do we know? Everybody wants a big Series 3 V twiles, don't they?

SPEAKER_00 22:52

Or the Series 1 flat floor, blah, blah, blah.

SPEAKER_02 22:54

Oh, they're different, they're collectors now.

SPEAKER_00 22:57

I don't want to drop the value. For me, the E-type is about being driven flat out. And when I see one coming in the opposite direction, that is a highlight of my day. If you see an e-type being driven properly flat out, I like to see them coming past me. Something in blue with a headlights on saying, get out of my way, I'm in a hurry in any time. Yeah. That is probably And you think, do you know what? You deserve to own that car. Yeah. And you were teaching it the right way to go. Yeah. It's got to be flat out on any type, isn't it? I think they're really underrated. Full chat, as the children say now. Bancing off the limiter.

SPEAKER_02 23:28

Yeah, absolutely. On the door handles around every bend and all that kind of thing. But but I love your podcast. I remember the first one I listened to, and I did actually put a comment on you made me you made all my children late for school, because I was just flicking through in the kitchen and you came up for some reason and I got so engrossed I literally half an hour disappeared.

SPEAKER_00 23:44

We don't have the pictures of them. So it relies on Matt, because I get straight into the detail and get lost on it because it's got the wrong hubcaps. He's like the MC, isn't it? He's very good at saying, hang on a minute, and I'm going to explain the picture in front of us. So he's good at giving the kind of wider picture, then I'll disappear off down a rabbit hole. But it is just, I think it's about the chat between us because we've got that relationship, we've got that friendship that we can just absolutely rip into each other.

SPEAKER_02 24:07

And you both have the knowledge as well. You both have the knowledge. There are a lot of people who a lot of car podcasts about new cars and modern cars and the current market, but the there's not a lot of us that do it almost exclusively or specifically. I do a little bit where I compare it the modern dealing to classic dealing, but I don't really touch modern cars.

SPEAKER_00 24:27

I think the whole modern car experience is pretty miserable now. Buying a modern car I don't really buy modern cars anymore because they're so boring, but modern car showrooms, I hate them. Modern salesmen. When you go from our fathers who were friends of yours, to the modern experience when can I sell you gap insurance? Can you sell you tower insurance? Can they sell you an extended warranty? Can I sell you ceramic coating? Can I sell you like the interior coating?

SPEAKER_02 24:48

You're way ahead of me. I've not been in a showroom that does any of those things for a while. We both rocked up today in old Merk convertibles, a bit of an edge gap between them. No hairdressing equipment is kept in my car overnight. But but yeah, I think there's there there is a deep joy to running and owning classic cars.

SPEAKER_00 25:06

I really understanding a car again, like the mechanical sympathy, looking at the I'm always looking at the heating, just in case it overheats it.

SPEAKER_02 25:12

So Max pulled up in his R107 this morning. Fabulous arrival, by the way. Thank you. First thing I said is, how's it running? It sounds great. You said brilliant. We had the discussion about will it done the world of good a long trip, all the rest of it. Trick up the M6. Followed shortly by I thought I could smell burning at one point.

SPEAKER_00 25:25

I think I did, but I think it's another car, but it was just lingering there because I could s and you're on alert with the classic cars. You are the noises and the smells. But the vibrations.

SPEAKER_02 25:33

You can be driving behind something that's billowing black smoke, smell the burning, and you still panic that it's your car.

SPEAKER_00 25:40

Yeah. I think it's great fun, and I just every time I drive a modern car, I just hate it. And every time I get into a classic, it's just a sigh of relief because you understand it and you've got a relationship with it. And this is why I like older cars with histories, because I can start to understand the history where it's been. And a silver shadow with a history. I'm just a sucker for it.

SPEAKER_02 25:59

I'll just fall over and the wonderful thing is that the R R E C the Rolls Royce Enthusiast Club, for a small fee and it's well worth it, they will send you your original build sheet for you. If it isn't already in the file.

SPEAKER_00 26:12

I was on the website last night looking at Shasta numbers. You've got there before me.

SPEAKER_02 26:16

Yeah. And we can trace back with Rolls-Royce's because the records are wonderful. Every car write back to its build sheets, delivery date, who signed off, all the snagging lists, if it did bounce back for any reason, how they dealt with it. And it's just it is wonderful.

SPEAKER_00 26:34

I just I'm a such a sucker for history. I missed out on a Ferrari 308 GTB that had been owned by Colonel Ronnie Haw, who was the owner of Marinello Concessions. Yeah. And I didn't I wasn't quick enough to buy it. And that was his first car. It was in Ferrari Blue. I can't remember the name of it, and I just wasn't quick enough. And that's one of the one of the many that got away. I wish I'd had that.

SPEAKER_02 26:56

So I've got an idea I'm gonna do, and I'm doing it more for me because I know they'll probably get zero views, but I'm gonna do it on YouTube because it'd be slightly longer. Those books I've got on the rollers work. So I've gone through and I've found already Ernest Hemingway.

SPEAKER_03 27:10

Oh wow.

SPEAKER_02 27:10

A couple of Anderbilts shipped to the USA. Okay. HRH Prince of Wales. A fuck ton of Maharajas. I think half the Rolls Royces they sold ended up in India. The King of Siam, and this is just from a quick glance. So I can tell where it went, and then I've got later books where they pop up in different places, and then you suddenly they went sold in bonhoms in 2006. And because the chassis numbers are attached to the car, obviously every car has a chassis number attached, but Rolls Royces tend to retain their three or four digit chassis number all the way through their life. They've got the grinder out. It happens. And I can probably trace the cars that belong to the Maharaja of India from you to exactly where it is today. And I think that's fascinating. I don't know whether I'm in the minority. This room It's a really exciting hobby for me. And I think and I'm gonna do it a little bit like have you ever watched Who Do You Think You Are? Yes. I'm gonna do I'm gonna video myself going through the Google and Star Detective. I'm gonna do CSI. No, that's not CSI, so I'm not killing any cars. And I'm gonna go down to Crew and see if they'll because I reckon if I put a really nice first few minutes together of what I'm doing and how I'm doing it, Crew might let me go in the archives. Yes. I'm sure they'd be interested. Probably yeah. Posh voice. Not green with my Cheshire accent. What was the number again?

SPEAKER_00 28:22

What number of what? Your home number when you had to answer the phone. Oh Mine was Hillary, more than five seven two nine nine one. Now before that was more than two nine nine one. Five two seven nine six eight.

SPEAKER_02 28:31

Hamforth five two seven nine six eight. Oh boy. But we did live in we lived in Hamforth Hall. Oh. So we were a real easy number to a real easy number together.

SPEAKER_00 28:37

But it's funny, isn't it, how you had to be posh as a car dealer? Because that was the idea you were try trying to project, isn't it?

SPEAKER_02 28:43

Yeah. So you walked a tightrope because if people thought you were doing too well, they'd be grid you. But then nobody wanted to buy a car off a car dealer that wasn't doing really well. Exactly.

SPEAKER_00 28:51

And you couldn't turn up in a flash car because it was a bit too flash. Particularly around the train. You were doing too well. You were doing too well. So you had to drive.

SPEAKER_02 28:57

We were slightly different in Manchester because the dealers were You had to be seen to be doing I don't I just I think they genuinely were. They were like the rock stars of the day and they hung out with the rock stars of the day. And I think that was just the way it was.

SPEAKER_00 29:08

That's what you said before, and you're exactly right on this. It was a very glamorous occupation. And particularly in the 60s, 70s and 80s, where there wasn't a huge amount of money around. If you were a car dealer and you tr turned up in flash cars, that's how you showed your success to people, wasn't it?

SPEAKER_02 29:22

And that's how you enjoyed your success. The thing is, if you turned up for a meal in a restaurant in Manchester on a Saturday night in a flash car, there's a good chance by the end of the meal you were getting a taxi home and you could they were all they'd my mum and dad would go out for dinner and the rings on their fingers and the fur coats on their back would change hands during the meal.

SPEAKER_03 29:36

Okay.

SPEAKER_02 29:37

There was always deals, there was always deals to be understood. They never offered it. If you were in your stock, you were advertising. That was that was your advertising board as well. But it was all things like having to drive them down the country because the mortgage was due. And we lived in Hanforth Hall, but my dad bought in a pub in a deal and came home with this iron key like that big to show my mum then the new house. And it was derelict. When we moved in, we all had to sleep in the kitchen. Although it was actually the servants' kitchen at the time. Okay. Not that we had servants, but from when it was servants, because it was the only room with a roof and it was raining. It looked flash. Looked flash. Hanforth Hall 528928 or whatever it was. The reality is that we were doing up a derelict old hall.

SPEAKER_00 30:11

Yes. I think that's what I mean that's what being self-employed and that's what car trading was around, wasn't it? A good deal would make your wicked.

SPEAKER_02 30:16

It wasn't just cars there, we got he did jewellery, paintings, art. He would do anything. We took a garage full of of plumbing pipes at one stage on something. I've got if you look down there behind you, can you see that picture of it at Baleria or a Haviland?

SPEAKER_03 30:30

Oh yeah.

SPEAKER_02 30:31

Ninety-six of the fucking things I've still got. Because we he took them in Not in the frames, but I've got them all with the patch of fabric from the Smithsonian Institute. We were always a dealer's a dealer.

SPEAKER_03 30:44

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 30:44

And if somebody would offer him something against a car, a fur coat and a watch or a house or 'cause dad was very cautious, so we stuck with the colour.

SPEAKER_00 30:52

Oh, my dad was no. See, my dad He didn't like moving house because he thought it was too expensive.

SPEAKER_02 30:56

My dad would punt on anything. And he was really well known for being someone who would punt on the wild and the wonderful cars as well. He would buy he had that there's a bum for every seat mentality. He would buy cars that everyone else would be terrified of buying.

SPEAKER_00 31:08

I've d I was a huge disappointment to dad when I started buying new Porsches because he just hated the idea of the depreciation. Yeah. And I'd rock up in one and he'd p half of him would like it because it the card side of him would love the fact that it was a one of the new boxes or one of the new Caymans or a new 9-11. But the kind of like trader side of him would just think of the money you're going to lose on that.

SPEAKER_02 31:27

My cousin's a barrister and he bought a brand new Mert, I think, in the eighties or nineties or something like that. And my dad was just No, why would you do that? Yeah. What do you want to do that for What do you want to do that for? Because the minute you've s before you've even sat in it, you've lost money. The minute you sign on the dotted line, you've lost money.

SPEAKER_00 31:43

When I used to buy classic cars, I used to take him along. I stopped doing that because he was so miserable going to other people's car dealerships and he just accused them of being unprofessional. Bearing in mind that he worked from home, we went to an E-type dealer once in in Herefordshire, and he had two barns of glass walls, all along the line of was e-types there, all along the line of E-type, series ones, flat floors, really rare cars. We wandered up to him and went unprofessional. Dad, you've arrived in a minivan. He's got a load of E-types and he's unprofessional. In what way? He just decided he didn't like him, so he just didn't like him. I took him along to look at that series two E-type and he just said, Oh, it's a box of bolts. What do you want on that? Drive what was his phrase? Is it drives like a camel? Oh, I can hear it I can hear the spanners run rattling around in the engine. What do you want one of those for? Or you'll hate it. But then as soon as I bought it, he loved it.

SPEAKER_02 32:31

I can remember I I had a real hankering after a TL7. So not long after I passed my test. There is a medicine for that. It's called owning one. My dad said no. Okay. Quite rightly. And suggested I went for a Fiat X19 instead.

SPEAKER_00 32:43

Okay. Yeah, nice.

SPEAKER_02 32:43

Yeah, but equally hard to find.

SPEAKER_00 32:45

Yes, and they would spin because they had such a short wheelbow. So spinning an X19.

SPEAKER_02 32:49

I've had one since. Okay. And I love them, the baby Ferrari. Such underrated cars. If you've got six, seven, eight, up to ten grand to spend on something, and you like to really drive, properly drive, and you can properly drive. Yeah, not in the way. That's yeah, but if you can drive, they're fun.

SPEAKER_00 33:05

Yeah, they are fun. I I spam one in Worcester City Centre and was on a dual carriageway on a corner and span it and ended up facing the traffic coming towards me, and it was embarrassing. I was trying to get in reverse and do it. But I mean they're lovely cars. I think this had very old tires on it, because obviously it wasn't my fault.

SPEAKER_02 33:21

Error in chair. It's NIC fault. Error in chair.

SPEAKER_00 33:25

So yeah, they they did used to spin. And what else used to spin? I remember Subaru in practice overcooking one of those on a roundabout, thinking it's four-wheel drive and getting that terribly wrong.

SPEAKER_02 33:34

Obviously 9-11s. 9-1-2s less, so I find them much easier to manage.

SPEAKER_00 33:43

Why's the armco over there? It should be over there.

SPEAKER_02 33:45

Ah yeah, I've got Hancue for a 912 as well.

SPEAKER_00 33:47

Okay, let me cure you of that. Because they are the engines are great, but they do need a lot of attention. I called mine the Queen of the Hard Shoulder.

SPEAKER_02 33:54

But yours had a mild cam on it, didn't it?

SPEAKER_00 33:56

It did. It had a bad cam on it. But it it had been interfered with so many times that God knows what that engine was. Because I took it to a special.

SPEAKER_02 34:03

Do you think if you dropped a new engine in you would have been okay with the car?

SPEAKER_00 34:06

No, because then it wouldn't be matching numbers and then I'd hate it.

SPEAKER_02 34:09

No, but you'd sell it as matching numbers. You could that you could swap it back here.

SPEAKER_00 34:12

I don't know. I don't think it was the engine.

SPEAKER_02 34:13

But so really okay, should we do a poll? Would you rather have a matching numbers but unreliable car or a re-engineed numbers? Or a re-engined car that would never let you down?

SPEAKER_00 34:22

Matt laughs at me. It's got to be factory spec. Everything's got to be as it came out of the factory. Just bang the engine numbers in the block.

SPEAKER_02 34:35

And it was like set a doubt whether it was.

SPEAKER_00 34:38

It had been when I took the carpets out and found the bolt holes for the harnesses, I realised it had been raced. Yeah. Then I traced the history to an owner in Norway who didn't want to speak to me, which is always a good sign. Because he was too embarrassed about what he did with it. I found a load of sand in it sandblasted. Um and it just I loved it. It just wasn't right. It was a very maintenance thirsty car. And that's why after that I went the other way. I went to that R107 Mercassal that's parked outside. Because you just get in it and starts and goes. Joyously easy.

SPEAKER_02 35:10

Joyously easy to ring. Would you have bought 912 up here today?

unknown 35:13

No. No.

SPEAKER_00 35:14

So it would be a hard shoulder ringing or saying that other than that. I broke down three times in that. The only car that's beaten that for breakdowns is my modern Land Rover Defender, which has broken down five times. But the 912 is the Queen of the Hard Shoulder. And because it was left-hand drive, there's a section of smart motorway, which is the M4, and I drive into London. And if it had broken down, I would have been next to the armcoe and not able to get out with a truck coming down. So I lost confidence in that when it broke down a couple of times.

SPEAKER_02 35:40

I object on every single level to smart motorways. Hard shoulders.

SPEAKER_00 35:43

That's what classic cars that's where we park.

SPEAKER_02 35:46

Yeah. That's where we coasted. That's where we limp to. Hazards on. Yeah, exactly. But here's the thing though, even on the smart motorway, we have got half chance of limping to a a safe space. I don't know or a slip road. No, I don't. I think they're highly dangerous. I think they're an accident waiting to happen. And I think that having spent years waiting in roadworks for them to convert everything to smart motorways, at some point we're going to spend the next ten years waiting in waiting in roadworks for them to build hard shoulders. Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 36:10

Hard shoulders are just sensible, isn't it? And I've spent a fair bit of time on them, so I should know.

SPEAKER_02 36:16

It's the quick fire round. Are you ready? Yeah, you look quite.

SPEAKER_00 36:21

It looks like a butterfly.

SPEAKER_02 36:22

And I'll tell you afterwards what it means. Ready's or online banking.

SPEAKER_00 36:26

Oh, cash.

SPEAKER_02 36:27

Yeah, cash is king. Auction house or private sale?

SPEAKER_00 36:31

I think auction house I think you get better protection at auction houses these days than you do at private sales.

SPEAKER_02 36:35

I agree. And this is we'll be very quick, otherwise I'll go down the rabbit hole with this. People seem to have this thing about feeling assured by buying off a private person on the driveway.

SPEAKER_00 36:44

Some of the biggest crooks I've ever bought off have been private buyers. Or pretending to be. Private sellers, yeah. Or pretending to be.

SPEAKER_02 36:50

I think if you go to a dealer or an auction house, you are going to have a much you're going to have a proper process behind the sale for a start, and you're going to have proper mediation if anything goes wrong.

SPEAKER_00 36:58

And also how many times have you seen an advert saying we'll sell through its MOT from a private seller?

SPEAKER_02 37:03

Why didn't you it then?

SPEAKER_00 37:04

Exactly. Because you welded two halves of a car together.

SPEAKER_02 37:06

Okay, so battered original paint or fresh resprayed.

SPEAKER_00 37:09

Oh original paint. I don't like resprays. No.

SPEAKER_02 37:11

I don't like resprays as long as they're old resprays. I'm aware we have a fresh respray. You don't know what it's going to look like in six months, do you?

SPEAKER_00 37:16

Yeah, and I like the original story behind them. The Merck is mostly original paint, I think.

SPEAKER_02 37:21

I've got my little gaydrometer here if you want me to check it.

SPEAKER_00 37:23

Oh no, maybe not.

SPEAKER_02 37:27

Cal for what you wish for. But I can confirm if you want me to. Okay, manual or automatic gearbox?

SPEAKER_00 37:32

Manual. Yes. From second to third on any type gearbox is probably my nirvana.

SPEAKER_02 37:37

I think it's horses for courses. I wouldn't want an R107 with a manual gearbox. And I don't like it, I don't and I don't like a J HS with a manual box.

SPEAKER_00 37:43

Good manual gearbox or there's lots, plenty of rubbish manual gearboxes around, but yeah, but uh good manual gearbox can't beat it.

SPEAKER_02 37:50

I agree. 911's got to be manual, nine to eight's gotta be auto. Okay. Yeah, I think it's horses for courses. Yeah. Also, at eight o'clock in the morning, stuck in traffic, taking the kids to school, automatic every day. Yes, that's true, yeah. Okay, so most exciting to see a balm find or a concourse car.

SPEAKER_00 38:07

Oh, balm find. Because it's got a good story behind it, yeah. I'm not really interested in concourse. Uh because I did so much polishing as a kid, I'm not really interested in polishing and cleaning cars. Yeah. Over and done with that. Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 38:17

So you have to pick one for the rest of your life. Oh no. British, American or European classic.

SPEAKER_00 38:22

Uh rest of my life. Uh it would have to be a Ferrari, I think.

SPEAKER_02 38:25

You go European. European European covers all sorts of bases, doesn't it? Yeah. Full court browsing, like the olden days, or appointment only off the tinterweb. Oh, full court browsing.

SPEAKER_00 38:35

Appointment only is there's the additional pressure of having to buy something. Whereas full court browsing, you can just make a make good year escape on foot, as the police used to say.

SPEAKER_02 38:42

But Jumbo used to be able to, yeah, you'd go into three or four different pitches in an afternoon.

SPEAKER_00 38:46

Yeah, absolutely.

SPEAKER_02 38:47

And people knew you were going to all of them.

SPEAKER_00 38:48

Yeah, leave bids behind which were rotting on their desk because they were so low.

SPEAKER_02 38:52

And then and don't get me asked on the POA nonsense. No. Price and applications.

SPEAKER_00 38:57

I'm trying to buy a car. If I don't know how much it's costs, why how am I going to buy it?

SPEAKER_02 39:00

I just bypass them completely. Okay, so short but brutally honest description or a full whistles and bells catalog.

SPEAKER_00 39:08

I don't read the descriptions because it's going to be nonsense. I just want to make it a little bit more.

SPEAKER_02 39:10

It tells me when they were launched at the Geneva Motor Show to pad it out and stuff like that.

SPEAKER_00 39:14

Yeah, yeah, who cares? Just tell just let them show me the car.

SPEAKER_02 39:16

Okay. Do you like a video walk around or a photo gallery?

SPEAKER_00 39:18

Photo gallery.

SPEAKER_02 39:20

Plastic car show or driving event?

SPEAKER_00 39:22

I would go to a driving event. Yeah, less less meeting other people and talking to them. Somebody talked to me about the other day about Rolls-Royce grills and he had really bad breath, and 30 minutes later I was virtually passed out. God he went off.

SPEAKER_02 39:36

Reaching for the mints. Yeah. Can I interest you in the TikTok? I was reaching the mints for him, trying to throw them in his mouth. Okay, so would you rather buy a restoration project or something that's on the key and ready to go?

SPEAKER_00 39:46

Restoration project. For me, that's the fun because you're doing it and you're involved with the car and you're thinking about it. Because I need something to fill my head. And so I need to think, oh, in six months I can get that sprayed, I can get that fixed. And I like going around talking to mechanics and people who spray cars and people who do the interiors. Because that's that's where I'm happy. I'm happy in garages talking to people.

SPEAKER_02 40:04

Do you h hit a boredom threshold once they're done? Once something's done and need something doing.

SPEAKER_00 40:08

Yeah. Once it's done, I'm thinking, what have I got to do? Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 40:12

And if you listen to the Ty Kickers podcast, or if you don't listen, you should listen to find out what Max is looking at next.

SPEAKER_00 40:19

Yeah. But not if you're a silver shadow dealer. I don't want to give you a prior warning.

SPEAKER_02 40:23

Completely original or sympathetic modifications.

SPEAKER_00 40:26

Completely original. I'm not really into modifications, so I think it's got to be how it was, how it came out of the factory. Because that's the experience for me. Matt's always into the podcast on putting new engines in and changing gearboxes. I like it to be how it came out of the factory. It's got to be a time capsule for me to be interesting.

SPEAKER_02 40:42

I think there's a good argument for sympathetic modifications sometimes like alternated dynamo situation, electronic starters.

SPEAKER_00 40:52

Yes. Yeah, I do see disc brakes, but I wouldn't put retrospectively fit disc brakes on anything, I think. I'd just have to I wouldn't buy a probably a drum brake car anyway.

SPEAKER_02 41:01

See, I buy the drum brake cars anyway, and then What would you buy with drums that you'd upgrade? I um discs. Let me think of an example. Okay, I had a 1959 F1 Ford pickup that was drums all round and stopping distance three and a half weeks. Yeah. So just for safety's sake to have it on the main road that needed a disc upgrade.

SPEAKER_00 41:23

That's a lifesaver, not particularly.

SPEAKER_02 41:24

It did, it's a safety issue. Yeah. Yeah. But I think sympathetic upgrades in certain situations I am I'm absolutely okay with.

SPEAKER_00 41:31

Yeah, I get uh for me it's all about the story of the car. I want to see the story of the car, I want to feel it, I want to breathe it. It's like a piece of history. I like interacting with the history, I like thinking it's had a story and where has this car been before? So I always like to know previous owners and previous stories. And when you go to a modern car and they say, Oh, I've lost all the history, forget it. It's not interesting to me then.

SPEAKER_02 41:49

I love a history file. And I've tortured my family many times to the lounge floor completely covered with in so I can get stuff in chronological order and then file it and all the rest of it. But I do also I like getting my teeth into a sparse file and filling in the gaps. I've got reference books and phoning people that I know are really good with that particular car that might remember it. Going down the Google rabbit hole of you see a name on an invoice and you think, I wonder whether that's somebody's significant. And I quite like building a file. I like getting an amazing file, but I quite like building one as well. Decoding chassis numbers on Porsche is to see what they were spent with originally.

SPEAKER_00 42:24

Oh, I love all that. When I originally bought the Porsche 912, I found the original owner back in 1966, which was in a part of Orange County, California, and then traced all his history back and then got in touch with his family to see if they had any photographs. And they were really nice, but they wanted to be friends, and I just wanted to talk about the car. Very American, isn't it? Oh great, we can keep in touch.

SPEAKER_02 42:43

Yeah. Have you got any pictures? No. Okay, bye. In that case, we won't be keeping in touch. Bye-bye.

SPEAKER_00 42:47

But he uh the the first owner of my 1966 Porsche, he had a fantastic uh Second World War record. He was a p psychiatrist in California and he bought himself a Porsche in 66 just when he retired. So it was a great story bucket.

SPEAKER_02 43:01

Yeah. I love the story. I love I think it and I think that there is always a value to a good history file. So I think just in terms of from a commercial point of view, to have an interesting history file.

SPEAKER_00 43:12

You're selling a piece of history, aren't you, these days now, and I think you need to be able to relate to it.

SPEAKER_02 43:16

They're antiques.

SPEAKER_00 43:17

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 43:17

If only I could convince the Batman that I'm selling antiques and not cars. Worth a try. I did. I tried to open the bank account one. You know these online bank accounts that do everything for you, so they don't do car traders. They don't do car traders, so I I opened one as an antique dealer.

SPEAKER_00 43:30

Oh, okay.

SPEAKER_02 43:30

Technically, just saying. Exactly. It's old stuff, and I buy it and sell it.

SPEAKER_00 43:34

Antiques on wheels, they're easy to move around.

SPEAKER_02 43:36

Antiques on wheels. Thank you so much. My pleasure.

SPEAKER_00 43:38

I've had a great time.

SPEAKER_02 43:39

So the only thing left to do is ask you if we can go for a spin in your beautiful R1A subject.

SPEAKER_00 43:43

Absolutely. Yeah, let's get the roof down and get out in it.

SPEAKER_02 43:44

The Manchester Rain will stop for five minutes.

SPEAKER_00 43:47

It doesn't matter. We'll just drive fast, it will go over ahead.

SPEAKER_01 43:53

I really hope you enjoyed that as much as I did. Please don't forget to like, subscribe, and review. It really helps independent podcasts like mine to grow. Thanks so much. Again to Max from the Tire Kickers. Always a huge pleasure to chat and do give the Tire Kickers podcast and listen as well. For the chance to win a superb classic car, just use code SAL15 for 15% off at vintage and classic car competitions. And use code SAL10 for 10% off D's Car Care products. All the links are in the show notes below. Please don't forget to subscribe. If you give me a follow on Facebook, Instagram, TikTok, and YouTube at the old car lady, you can keep up to date with what I'm doing on a day to day basis. So until next week, happy motoring.