So There's This Book...

WHAT YOU SEEK is seeking you on Formspring.

Join Nick, Holly, and Melissa as they get back to it! Jumping back on the horse of religiosity and high school bullies. Formspring comes back in a big way, and we get into the big questions—Would you want to know what other people think of you? Like and subscribe and maybe you'll find out how. 

thank you for listening queenifers!

digress & confess was created by us - holly, nick , & melissa. the show's music was mixed by nick, with credit to kevin macleod. the show is edited by nick (& sometimes melissa). thank you to brian for your editing guidance. thank you to jess for taking our show photo.

follow the show on instagram @digressconfesspod for the latest!

Transcript

SPEAKER_02 0:00

I'm a podcast idiot. But no, when I when I listen back, sometimes I'm like, I'm like, fuck. Get to the point. I just I really talk in circles and I I feel like I repeat myself a lot. Like I always feel like I'm speaking in like a five-paragraph essay where I'm like, my my thesis. Literally, I have my thesis and then I talk about it and then I summarize what I just said.

SPEAKER_04 0:23

But see, that's the that's the bet and that's what I struggle with because I don't need to do that.

SPEAKER_02 0:26

I'm like, bitch, you drove the point home. Like you really drove. In conclusion. In conclusion. Let me just summarize what I just said ten times in a row. Right. So I don't know. I I do repeat myself a lot.

SPEAKER_00 0:44

Welcome back, welcome back, welcome back. To summarize.

SPEAKER_01 1:00

Digress and confess.

SPEAKER_02 1:09

Welcome back to our podcast, Digress and Confess, where I was not holding my microphone when we were discussing this, but apparently I really enunciate the words I speak, but I'm not well spoken, and I repeat myself.

SPEAKER_00 1:22

No, so Nick and I did not say that. Well, uh, you didn't say that, but I said that we disagreed with her. It sounded like we said, like, yeah, Holly enunciates, but she's not well spoken. Yeah.

SPEAKER_04 1:34

She doesn't speak, but she's a dumbass.

SPEAKER_02 1:36

I know you guys are thinking it, so I just wanted to just say it out loud for you.

SPEAKER_00 1:40

You wanted to break the silence. I did, yeah, breaking my silence.

SPEAKER_02 1:43

Breaking your silence. Silent or silent.

SPEAKER_04 1:46

Who's winced? Wow. Welcome back, everybody.

SPEAKER_00 1:50

We're back. We're back. I'm just gonna start out strong.

SPEAKER_04 1:53

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 1:54

We're clearly still medicated.

SPEAKER_04 1:55

Yeah.

unknown 1:56

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 1:56

And I wanna, this is like honestly embarrassing, but I just am gonna say it. Is today I was listening to music on the way home from getting groceries, and I um Dog Days Are Over by Florence came on. Did you cry? I was near tears, and I was like, wait, no, wait a second, because this is what my meds feel like. Happiness hurt her like a bullet in the back. Whoa. Yeah. I was in the car like, uh I was I was really, this was really crazy. But this also goes back to what I texted you guys uh earlier this week, which is that I'm like actually getting angry about this though. Yeah because I've never I know you've had psych meds work for you, and you have too. This is the first time I've ever had psychiatric meds work for me in my entire life.

SPEAKER_03 2:45

This is so wild. This is wild to hear.

SPEAKER_00 2:48

I've had some that have given me like I'm less likely to kill myself, right? But I have never had them like work, and so this is brand new for me.

SPEAKER_02 2:59

Wow.

SPEAKER_00 2:59

And I'm actually getting angry because I'm like, wait, do other people have this? Like, fuck you guys. Like truly, I was thinking, I don't think I've had suicidality for like at least three weeks.

SPEAKER_02 3:14

Wow.

SPEAKER_00 3:14

And that is like the first time I've gone more than a couple days without being suicidal, at least like ideation since probably elementary school. Wow. Nick's face right now is he's gagged. He's gagging. So like the dog days are over you. The dog days are over.

SPEAKER_02 3:37

Holy fuck.

SPEAKER_00 3:39

The dog days are done.

SPEAKER_02 3:40

I do I do feel like you also always have like really bad side effects, like right away.

SPEAKER_00 3:47

I do. So I haven't been able to stay on meds often. Yeah. Well, I will say the vibrant worked well for me, but it was also hard for me because I was dry heaving and vomiting every single day. And so I was like not really feeling very well then. So I don't think I had the full effect of it.

SPEAKER_02 4:03

Right. Because when you're like feeling physically unwell, it's hard to feel mentally well at the same time, even if you are actively less depressed, but you're like, well, I kind of feel like shit, so I'm sort of just like laying around like I do when I'm depressed, even though my mood is good. Exactly.

SPEAKER_00 4:19

So I just had to bring up the medication again because I'm kind of like, whoa, but I am getting angry. Yeah.

SPEAKER_04 4:24

Yeah. And I remember feeling that same way as well. Like when I I think what I was 22 when I like had that medication, it had been depressed since I was like 10. And so I was like, holy fuck, people can feel like this. Yeah, I'm like, are you fucking kidding me? So you messaged me that, and I'm so happy that you did, because I I also was like, I just assumed that you had also experienced that on previous medications.

SPEAKER_00 4:47

Never experienced this before.

SPEAKER_04 4:49

So that's why I am gagged and goofed about this.

SPEAKER_00 4:52

I'm literally like, oh I literally uh I don't know if I want to cut this, but like I was reading the news and I was like, I kind of had like the uh oh he passed away. Oh like like almost almost like damn, that sucks. Damn, that sucks.

SPEAKER_04 5:11

And you were able to walk away from it.

SPEAKER_00 5:12

And I was able to walk away from it, not in a way that I don't care, but like in a way of like I was able to keep moving on with my day while still acknowledging yeah the enormity of it all. Holy shit, this is huge. It was so huge, like you guys, I'm feeling very crazy right now. I love that, but like in a positive way, I love that. I can you imagine not being suicidal?

SPEAKER_02 5:35

Crazy because now I can. Now you can. Yeah, yeah, I I was gonna say kind of similar to what Nick said. I have experience that is that's how I felt um after I was diagnosed with OCD and I went on Zoloft after like having like pretty bad agoraphobia, like not really being able to leave my house without like absolutely melting down, couldn't drive my car, couldn't be in public, couldn't really do anything because the intrusive thoughts were were winning, we're winning in a big way. And I went on Zoloft, which did not work for me long term, but the first like six months on it, I remember it was, yeah, I don't know, a couple weeks in. I remember sitting at my desk and like noticing that I was just sitting there like smiling and giggling to myself, and I was like, I kind of caught myself. I was like, what? I feel so good right now. I thought this rover happy. Why do I feel so happy? And I remember telling my our psychiatrist that, and he was like, Good. He's like, that's what it's supposed to do.

SPEAKER_04 6:41

Yeah, yeah. Yeah, I'm low.

SPEAKER_02 6:43

And it's a it's a crazy feeling. It is when you're like, oh, I'm I'm just happy.

SPEAKER_04 6:47

I'm being and you're like, people can just do this. Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 6:51

It's like sick and twisted that I've had to struggle since I was a literal child, single digits child.

SPEAKER_04 6:58

Single digits, yeah.

SPEAKER_00 6:59

And some people just are are able to do this.

SPEAKER_04 7:03

I know. Why?

SPEAKER_00 7:05

Are you joking me?

SPEAKER_02 7:06

You know what I was thinking yesterday? Well, because I told Melissa that I had the scaries really bad yesterday. I just woke up, just had a bad day. Yeah. And um I was thinking when I woke up, something that I think non-mentally ill people take for granted, and even I take for granted when I'm like not feeling depressed, is waking up in a good mood. Because a huge thing of mental illness is like there are some days where like from the second I open my eyes, I'm just immediately in a bad mood. And I know instantly, and I know like it's gonna be a bad day today. And like trying to explain that to a normal person, I guess, like sometimes I wake up like unwell, nothing happened. I could have been perfectly happy the day before, but sometimes I wake up just pissed off in a horrible mood.

SPEAKER_00 7:58

Sometimes I wake up and immediately start crying. Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 8:01

Oh, yeah.

SPEAKER_00 8:02

Nick Nick went, What? I don't really understand that one.

SPEAKER_02 8:05

Well, hey, hey, been there.

SPEAKER_04 8:08

I mean, hey, mine's the mine was the bed rot mental mental mental illness where I just I would wake up, I'd be in bed, and then like my eyes would cross and I'd like sit in a haze for an hour and I'd be like, Oh, I was supposed to get up an hour ago.

SPEAKER_02 8:19

Yeah, yeah, yeah. Yeah. Much better now, but But yeah, that that I was thinking about that yesterday when I woke up just in a horrible mood from the second I opened my eyes, was in a terrible mood all day. And I really I kind of was like, I wasn't spiraling, but I was like, what if my medication isn't actually working and it's making me even more depressed and I'm having the side effect where it makes me worse.

SPEAKER_00 8:41

Stupid paradoxical shit. Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 8:43

But I don't I don't think that's what's happening. I think I just was in a bad mood. Yeah. Crazy.

SPEAKER_04 8:49

Sometimes we're just Sometimes we have bad days.

SPEAKER_02 8:52

Bad days. But to to summarize everything I just said, because that's kind of that's kind of what I like to do. Yeah, if you wake up in a good mood and your baseline is just good every single day, never take that for granted.

SPEAKER_00 9:06

Don't because that's so insane.

SPEAKER_02 9:09

It's like in the Pipple song when he says Give it to us, give it to us. He's like, believe me, been there, done that. But every day above ground is a great day. Remember that. I knew my rent was gonna be late about a week ago. I worked my ass off, but I still can't pay it though. That unironically, that song has pulled me out of some dark times. Cause you know what? Every day above ground is a good day.

SPEAKER_01 9:34

It is, yeah. Remember that remember that.

SPEAKER_02 9:36

Dolly. Dolly. So I don't need to summarize what I just said because I already did one once before. Once again, I'm really gonna drive that point home. You'll never you'll never wonder how I feel about anything, that's for sure.

SPEAKER_01 9:52

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 9:53

Well, can I say I do? I also think that we can tell that we're medicine like so. I one of my We're giggly again.

SPEAKER_03 10:01

We're giggly again.

SPEAKER_00 10:02

My coworker Rosa was like, I listened to your pod, and I was like, What do you think? And she was like, Well, because she listened to me. She listened to the episode where we started with Sylvia Plath. Oh, okay. And she was like, she was kind of basically like, she didn't say it, but what she was saying was like, You guys seem depressed.

SPEAKER_04 10:21

That was kind of a depressive episode.

SPEAKER_00 10:23

We were depressed.

SPEAKER_04 10:24

We were.

SPEAKER_00 10:24

That was the those were the and I said to her, I said, and now I'm on new psych beds. Try again.

SPEAKER_04 10:30

We're bouncing back, babes. Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 10:31

We're bouncing back.

SPEAKER_04 10:32

That's the thing. We're being real. We're being real.

SPEAKER_00 10:34

We're being real, just like Whitney Rose. We're being real. We're being so real. Yeah. Well, what how is how are your how are your real weeks? How uh how are things? Missing you guys. I feel like I haven't seen you in forever.

SPEAKER_04 10:45

That's not true. I know. It's not true. Is it been a week, maybe? Did I see you last week?

SPEAKER_02 10:49

I didn't see you, but I saw Melissa. Oh, yeah, we didn't record last weekend.

SPEAKER_04 10:53

Yeah, what was I doing last weekend?

SPEAKER_00 10:54

I don't know.

SPEAKER_04 10:55

Getting shit faced, probably. You've knew me.

SPEAKER_00 10:59

Holly and I both were like, what? Famously loves to drink. Famous drinker. In college.

SPEAKER_04 11:06

Oh no, I was uh yeah, in college. I did love to drink in college. Ooh.

SPEAKER_00 11:11

Who did it?

SPEAKER_04 11:12

I mean, true, yeah. Yeah. But I was that we made a joke, what in our previous app where it was like, oh yeah, alcohol expands the mind. Oh, that was me. I was like, yeah, I'm like such a better writer when I'm drunk off my ass.

SPEAKER_02 11:22

Well you go back and read it, you're like, well, well, it's kind of like the neurodivergent thing of like alcohol makes me normal, where it's like, it actually doesn't. Or you're an alcoholic. You might you might feel more like socializing is easy, but you are sort of visibly noticeably drunk.

SPEAKER_01 11:38

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 11:38

I like it when I'm high and I'll be like, I have the best story idea. Oh, for saying my notes out. I'll wake up the next morning and it'll be like, Goose. Like, I'll just be like, What? What are you doing? The moment I'm like, I'm gonna write the next great American novel.

SPEAKER_04 11:55

Oh god, that's like I have this one memory from college where we I was trying to make friends with this group of people, and we went over to someone's house and they got high the night before, and we were drinking that night. Of course, and then they were reading us the shit that they had written the night before, and I was drunk off my ass. I think it was like 2 a.m. and they were reading it, and I was like, I am not following any of this shit, but they're reading it out as if it's fucking liturgy.

SPEAKER_00 12:22

Jennifer genius.

SPEAKER_04 12:24

Genius. Love it. Oh, liturgy. That's another religious word. Do you know liturgy?

SPEAKER_00 12:28

Liturgy?

SPEAKER_04 12:30

Oh, maybe that's the Minnesotan way to pronounce it. I thought it was liturgy. We always say liturgy.

SPEAKER_00 12:34

I feel like my Catholic Church said liturgy.

SPEAKER_04 12:36

Liturg.

SPEAKER_02 12:37

That was a real holly move of you, Nick. What to mispronounce a religious word? I might be minus nothing.

SPEAKER_04 12:42

No, I think that's how they pronounced it at my church. I think it was a good thing.

SPEAKER_02 12:45

I also thought it was liturgy.

SPEAKER_04 12:47

Liturgy, yeah. I think. Well, maybe it is one of those like regional.

SPEAKER_02 12:50

Let me see what my vocab word is.

SPEAKER_04 12:52

Yeah, what's your vocab word?

SPEAKER_02 12:53

Oh, uh hubris.

SPEAKER_00 12:54

Hubris.

SPEAKER_04 12:56

Whoa, big one.

SPEAKER_02 12:57

That's what I have right now.

SPEAKER_04 12:58

Liturgy. If it's actually with a hard T, that's gonna feel so wide wild to me. It's like finding out that people say sauna. Sauna?

SPEAKER_02 13:08

What do you say? Sauna?

unknown 13:11

Liturgy.

SPEAKER_04 13:12

Liturgy.

SPEAKER_00 13:13

Okay, so X-ray. Liturgy. Liturgy. I think that they said at my church, I think they said that.

SPEAKER_04 13:19

And they heard it, and that's the thing, yeah. It was like people pronounce it differently. If we learn it in a space where it's pronounced one way, that's how we know it. So that's why I was like, oh, maybe my church says liturgy and everyone else says liturgy.

SPEAKER_00 13:28

I just had the most I have this memory of being in high school, and we were in English class, and Maggie D, we're gonna get to bleep their government names. Maggie D had to give a presentation where she had to say the word epitome and didn't know how it was pronounced, wasn't sure.

SPEAKER_02 13:46

Did she say epitome?

SPEAKER_00 13:48

Well, she did, but she out of anyone she could have asked in the class, she could have asked me. She was sitting next to me, she turned her other side, asked Mark Epitome and he told her epitome, obviously. So then she stood up in front of the class and said epitome.

SPEAKER_04 14:03

Embarrassing.

SPEAKER_00 14:04

And I think about that all the time. That the fact that she looked around the room and said, Who should I ask? The guy who's kind of a fucking asshole. Yeah.

SPEAKER_04 14:13

Wild choice. Wild choice.

SPEAKER_02 14:15

Do you remember when maybe not because I went to middle school with him, but he made a Facebook group called I Fucking Hate Mrs. Allen.

SPEAKER_04 14:28

I knew about this Facebook page.

SPEAKER_02 14:30

Yeah, who was um a history teacher, social studies teacher.

SPEAKER_04 14:35

She went to my church.

SPEAKER_02 14:36

Yeah. Deeply religious and kind of annoying, to be honest. Um and he got in a lot of trouble. But that was like so, it's really so crazy, kind of the bold moves that teens make. Teens are so mean. Well, he was my high school boy. Oh mean, yeah.

SPEAKER_00 14:54

Oh, really? He was my high school. He was the meanest person by far to me. Yeah, he's a huge prick. Yeah. He was an asshole. He would actively, he at one point did tell me I should kill myself and I should finish the job.

SPEAKER_04 15:05

Bro.

SPEAKER_00 15:06

Teenagers are crazy mean.

SPEAKER_04 15:09

Villains to each other. Villains.

SPEAKER_00 15:11

Villainous. I almost wanted to send him my PhD acceptance because he used to constantly tell me how dumb I was. That was what he loved to talk about how fucking dumb I am and how fucking smart he is.

SPEAKER_04 15:25

There is a deep red rage in my chest right now.

SPEAKER_00 15:28

I really wanted to just be like, hey. Hey.

SPEAKER_04 15:32

Wow.

SPEAKER_00 15:33

Just a quick note for you.

SPEAKER_04 15:34

Whoa.

SPEAKER_00 15:35

Just a quick note. Because I actually did have another high school bully apologize to me who was friends with Mark. Uh David. Well, he got bull. He bullied me because his girlfriend didn't like me because I think David kind of liked me a little. And but I didn't like him. And then he was really good friends with Mark. And then he started bullying me in the same way. And then I saw him when I was transferring colleges, and he was literally like, I'm sorry, I was an asshole to you. And I was just doing it to try to fit in. And I was like, That's big of you. Yeah. I appreciate that.

SPEAKER_04 16:08

Yeah. I don't know if I'll ever get that from Mark.

SPEAKER_00 16:10

People are teenagers sometimes. Yeah. And assholes.

SPEAKER_02 16:14

I am I don't really know David. I know who he is, but I don't know if that I ever really I think I might have had a class or two with him, but he has sort of always looked like a 40-year-old who sells insurance. So a little bit.

SPEAKER_04 16:27

From from 16, he had that look.

SPEAKER_02 16:29

Yep. And some men, unfortunately, um, do kind of look 40 from the time that they are like puberty age until their death. And sometimes it's good in like a John Hamm way. Yes. But most of the time it's bad in like a you have a reseeding hairline in your 16 way.

SPEAKER_04 16:48

Yeah. Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 16:50

So that sucks.

SPEAKER_00 16:51

That's a bummer.

SPEAKER_04 16:52

Hey, did you have a high school bully?

SPEAKER_00 16:54

Um yourself. Myself.

SPEAKER_02 16:58

That was my high school bully.

SPEAKER_01 17:00

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 17:01

Um, I would say more like middle school. Yeah. I would say more middle school, but it was sort of like a back and forth between me and these girls where they, which I will say they started it, and then me, me and Ashley, we retaliated in a big way.

SPEAKER_04 17:19

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 17:20

You can't outdo the doer.

SPEAKER_04 17:22

No.

SPEAKER_02 17:23

I don't know. I think I'm a pretty nice, like friendly, positive, upbeat person. I wouldn't fuck with you though. Unless you cross me. Yeah. Yeah. So don't do that.

SPEAKER_04 17:36

Don't do that.

SPEAKER_02 17:36

Because I am confrontational and I do fight back. So.

SPEAKER_04 17:40

And I think people can tell that about you, which is why they're not going to be able to do it.

SPEAKER_00 17:43

I think that's why people are a little bit scared of you sometimes because they know that you would you're very nice, but if they fucked you over, you would not take it.

SPEAKER_04 17:49

It's like a mix of like fear and admiration.

SPEAKER_02 17:52

I'm kind of like unfuckwithable.

SPEAKER_00 17:54

Correct. Yep.

SPEAKER_04 17:55

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 17:56

Yeah. Nick, did you have a high school, junior high school? I was just trying to think.

SPEAKER_04 18:01

It was like the only bully that I was.

SPEAKER_00 18:02

I think everybody likes you.

SPEAKER_04 18:03

I think so, but because I was, and this is what I worry about now is that like, um, does that mean I the bully? Was that mean I was somebody else's bully? Like, I don't think I was, but I think I was my own bully. Like, I I really Well you bullied me a little bit. Oh, I bullied you a lot.

SPEAKER_00 18:18

I did, but that was complicated. You weren't really my bully.

SPEAKER_04 18:21

I know, yeah. But yeah, it was very complicated. Yeah, that's bully.

SPEAKER_00 18:24

But like, I don't think you were a bully.

SPEAKER_04 18:25

No, I don't know. I don't think anybody would call you a bully.

SPEAKER_00 18:29

I don't think anybody would call you a bully though. No.

SPEAKER_04 18:31

I don't think so.

SPEAKER_00 18:32

And I don't feel like I saw people bully. Did you have did anybody bully you after you came out?

SPEAKER_04 18:38

No, I don't think so.

SPEAKER_00 18:39

Slid.

SPEAKER_04 18:40

I think, yeah. I was just like hyper aware of that, like, oh, everyone's judging me. So I felt like my world was crushing, and I felt like everyone hated me. But it was literally just me on like my anxiety was on overdrive. Yeah, it was like self-imposed hate from everyone.

SPEAKER_02 18:54

I do unfortunately think people could describe me as a bully. Like I think there are some girls, yeah, some girls that I would be beefing with as like a young teenager.

SPEAKER_04 19:04

Did you bully anyone?

SPEAKER_02 19:05

Like out of nowhere, though? Not out of nowhere, no. I don't think there was anyone I was like picking on or mean to for no reason. Right. You know, but it was it was literally always about related to like boys. Boys. It was gonna say. I feel like that's different than bullying though.

SPEAKER_00 19:21

Yeah, like I I was not beef with teenage girls over boys.

SPEAKER_02 19:25

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 19:26

True.

SPEAKER_02 19:26

Um, but yeah, Ashley and I were pretty mean to some people. Wow. Yeah. Um, but again, it wasn't it wasn't for no reason. And then two, I think, I don't know the people who did sort of bully me, question mark, I guess in high school were like calling me a slut. I was I was like the like school slut kind of that was sort of what people bully for. Your role was.

SPEAKER_01 19:55

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 19:56

Because I was, you know, sucking and fucking at 16 years old, which is yeah, yeah, not great. So yeah, any sort of like bully-ish related anything that happened to me as a teenager was unfortunately because I was just a little boy crazy. Yeah. Due to low self-esteem. Many such cases. Many such cases. But no, I was never I was never like, I no, I was never You weren't randomly bullying. No, never, never, never, never. I was acting I don't know. I feel like I was actually pretty quiet and under the radar in high school.

SPEAKER_04 20:29

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 20:29

I do feel like there's like a just a certain type of person where I'm almost like, what is your vibe that you're just like randomly picking on people? Yeah, like I get having beef with people, but like just like randomly being a bully to somebody.

SPEAKER_04 20:40

I feel like it is that sense of like insecurity of being like, how do I come to the table? How do I show up here right now? I don't know how to. Well, if I punch somebody, then they'll pay attention to me. Cool. Yeah. Now I'm being heard. But still it's like, bro, I don't know. I got me thinking about like online bullying. I know digital bullying was like still fresh when we were kids. Like, did you guys ever experience that?

SPEAKER_02 20:57

On form spring. On form spring?

SPEAKER_00 20:59

Oh, people were like, is form spring? Maybe you weren't brave enough. I'm which I I would make one and then immediately delete it because it would be bullied.

SPEAKER_04 21:09

What the heck is that?

SPEAKER_00 21:10

It was like an anonymous question website. Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 21:13

Like you could have a form spring account and people could anonymously say things to you. And I'll take it even a step like, or take a step back from Form Spring. Before that, there was the truth box on MySpace.

SPEAKER_00 21:26

Oh, yeah. I didn't have that, but I know. Oh, I did because I'm like, oh my god.

SPEAKER_02 21:31

Anyone can tell me their opinion of me. I gotta know. I gotta know. Gotta feed the feed the beast.

SPEAKER_00 21:38

I remember Nick never made me his number one on MySpace, and it pissed me off bad.

SPEAKER_04 21:44

Who was my number one? God.

SPEAKER_00 21:46

It it varied, but it wasn't me. God. But you you got you received inquiries.

SPEAKER_02 21:52

Oh, people were horrible to me on Formsprink, and I like I really, really like yeah. It was feeding the beast in a major way. Like I became kind of addicted to it. Yeah. Where I'm like, I keep them c keep it coming. It doesn't bother me.

SPEAKER_00 22:07

It's funny because it's like the the yin and yang of our personalities. Yeah. Because like I had Form Spring. I feel like there was another one too that got popular in high school, but I can't remember what it's called.

SPEAKER_02 22:17

Yeah. But uh Well, there was Ask FM, but that was like when we were older after we had graduated.

SPEAKER_00 22:23

There was another one though, but both of them I had for probably 48 hours. And then the messages I received, which weren't even that bad, but were just kind of like, Why are you so weird? Like, why are you missing school? Like all this kind of shit. I got so upset that I deleted it both times. Yeah. Versus you were like, okay, fight.

SPEAKER_04 22:41

Bring it on. Right.

SPEAKER_02 22:42

Like I'm very like, I don't know. I'm very, even though it bothered me deeply, I became like addicted to it in a weird way, where it's like, I ha I have to know. Like I get really, but I think it's just the obsessive part of me. Yep.

SPEAKER_04 22:57

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 22:57

Yeah.

SPEAKER_04 22:59

Kids are mean.

SPEAKER_02 23:01

Yeah, they are.

SPEAKER_04 23:02

And I know we're all just like trying to find our world, but damn.

SPEAKER_00 23:04

Damn. I know. Damn. I have a question. Would you, if you could know what everybody thought about you, would you want to know?

SPEAKER_04 23:12

Like it like today.

SPEAKER_00 23:14

Like if you if you if you walked up to me and you could see a little box that gave you a above my head.

SPEAKER_04 23:19

Like an impression.

SPEAKER_00 23:20

An impression. Like what I think of you. Like my honest opinion of you. Not maybe not just me, because like I feel like we're all best friends, so that's different. I don't think I don't think. I still actually I maybe I wanted even less of my best friends because I don't want to know any like anything negative. But like if if every person you walked up to, there was a little like impression box above them. Would you want that? Or would you judge that?

SPEAKER_04 23:42

I feel like I couldn't. I feel like that would feed my neuroticism so bad that I would just like end up hating going out in the wild at all. I think it would make me want to hide inside so much.

SPEAKER_00 23:52

But would you want to see it?

SPEAKER_04 23:53

I think I would want to see it, but I think that would be part of my mental disorder of like being like, I want to know what everyone feels about me. So then I know how to accurately walk about the world. Yeah. But then I think it would eat me alive every single day. And kind of in the same way what you were talking about with your high school, middle middle school experience. Like I wouldn't have been able to do it. What about you? What about today?

SPEAKER_02 24:15

That's hard. It's hard because I want to say no because I don't know. It's it's I think it's better to be oblivious about those things and to sort of move through the world assuming that like I don't know, to to have self-awareness, but to also like assume that people just generally like you and take you at face value and whatever. Like I I think it's better to meet people and just assume that you're already good and then continue building off of the good. But of course, the sick part of my brain is like, yeah, I would want to know. Yeah. Yeah, I would want to know. Because again, it just is feeding feeding the beast and confirming all the bad things that I already believe to be true about myself. And the even sicker part of me is like, well, I could use that to manipulate people and get my way and get ahead.

SPEAKER_04 25:07

Yep. You know, right, yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_00 25:09

Would you would you want to know more or less? Like, it let's say I gave you an option. Okay, I'm I'm playing God here. I give you an option. You can either have people you sort of know or your best friends. Well, you have to choose one that will have the impression box above you.

SPEAKER_04 25:26

That's a good question.

SPEAKER_00 25:28

Do you want your best friends' impressions or do you want people who you sort of know?

SPEAKER_02 25:31

I want people I sort of know.

SPEAKER_04 25:33

Same.

SPEAKER_02 25:33

Because I'm like, I'm I'm like, I shouldn't even say this. This makes me sound fucking crazy. Well, I am, so whatever.

SPEAKER_00 25:42

So what if you're crazy?

SPEAKER_02 25:44

So what if I'm fucking crazy? Um, but do you want to know the thought that popped into my brain immediately when you said that is like, well, I've already won my friends over. Which makes me sound psychotic, but it's the truth.

SPEAKER_00 25:59

Like I feel I feel like So your your perspective is that it would be positive, so it'd be useless information.

SPEAKER_02 26:06

Not necessarily, because I'm sure that there are like, I'm sure all of my friends have felt complicated things about me before because we're human and whatever, but you like me anyway.

SPEAKER_01 26:17

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 26:17

You know, not even you love me anyway, even though you see like the bad parts of me and like the, you know, the yeah, the the not so great parts of me. You see it and you still choose to love me and be my friend anyway.

SPEAKER_04 26:32

And that makes sense to me too, which is maybe why my answer would be the same as yours. Because I feel like if you're already in my like inner circle, I know that you love me. Yeah, but there's sometimes when I'm like not feeling mentally well that like I feel like I already don't trust the people that love me. And if I had any sort of hint, any whiff of someone who like maybe could hate me, oh, it'd eat me alive.

SPEAKER_02 26:52

I think so too. I think I would like kind of crash and burn if like maybe I was like being crazy and I knew that you were like thinking something about it. Yeah, I think I would get like kind of confrontational and crazy about it. And like I think I could, I would have the potential to ruin good relationships. But if it's just like people who I don't know that well, then in my head I'm like, well, then I could know and I could know what they were thinking and I could change my behavior accordingly to make them love me too. You know? But again, this is like I think mental illness speaking.

SPEAKER_01 27:26

Yes, it is.

SPEAKER_02 27:27

So I know that the the reality of the situation, if I was actually given that choice to know the very real scenario. The very real scenario, if it yeah, um, if I were ever presented that option, I th I think that I would turn it down. Because I I know I have the awareness to know that that would not be good to me. It would turn me into a little psychopath.

SPEAKER_01 27:47

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 27:47

More than I already am, I guess, saying that I've won my fucking friends over. Jesus Christ. But I but you know you know what I mean though. Yeah, I'm not I'm not trying to win people over in like a manipulative way, it's more like a please love me kind of.

SPEAKER_00 28:03

Yeah, you said manipulative, but what you meant was manipulate you to like me more.

SPEAKER_02 28:07

Yeah, exactly.

SPEAKER_00 28:08

Yeah, you don't mean manipulate them like take their money or something. No, I don't mean buy me a house, manipulate them into loving me.

SPEAKER_02 28:16

Yes, because I want, I mean, that's kind of like the truth of being a human is everyone just wants to be loved. Yeah. I don't think that's crazy to say.

SPEAKER_04 28:25

It's not crazy to say.

SPEAKER_02 28:26

That's what everybody wants.

SPEAKER_04 28:28

I love you guys. Wow. Are you kidding? Wow.

SPEAKER_02 28:32

Um, yeah, that was a crazy question. Yeah, I would not I would not want to know what my closest friends are thinking about me. No, I do not want to know.

SPEAKER_00 28:42

No, I wouldn't want to know anything in the first place. I wouldn't want to see any of that information. And I wouldn't want to see my closest friends because I think that I think everybody probably has negative thoughts about everyone at some point, right? Of course. And I think like you know somebody so deeply that that negative thought would have to be personal in some capacity. Which now I'm like thinking about you two, and I'm like, I don't really actually have that like towards you, but I'm like, but for me, it would for me it would be like if you know somebody so well and you're having a negative thought about them, it's not just like oh, they're annoying, it's like they're annoying because like they have childhood trauma. Like there's there's like some personal element of it that is like very deeply wounding.

SPEAKER_04 29:27

Yeah, and we like understand each other so much more. Yes, yeah, yeah, I get that.

SPEAKER_00 29:30

I think that'll be hard.

SPEAKER_04 29:31

Well, that got me thinking about like inner thoughts, like negative thoughts, not only towards others, but also like towards ourselves.

SPEAKER_00 29:36

And yeah, I haven't I haven't gotten past that mountain yet.

SPEAKER_04 29:39

We're still working on it, mama. Hey, hey.

SPEAKER_02 29:42

Um, do you guys want to know what I was Googling last night in the mid in the midst of my mental illness?

SPEAKER_03 29:47

Yes.

SPEAKER_02 29:48

Well, we we did end up in a place of breast lift before and after. Um, but before that, it was um how long does it take to build self-esteem? 324 a.m. Um and then I was looking at um an article, how to improve your self-esteem in five minutes or less. 325 a.m. It's kind of what I was saying.

SPEAKER_04 30:17

Well, yeah, so I brought up I brought up self-talk because I finished uh proofreading this book. Uh it's called The Neuroscience of Magic. And I think we talked about this book a little bit because I ran into a thing with it. But uh there's one part in the book where it's talking about, it's kind of talking about the neuroscience of religion, but using magic and witchcraft as like the overlap. So you have like one sphere of psychology and the anatomy of the brain and all of its functions, then the other sphere is magic, witchcraft, peg, and religion, nature-based religions, and which is a really interesting. But um, of course, with those kinds of religions, spellcasting is an element of it. But they're not thinking about like Harry Potter spellcasting of like I'm gonna do something to lift something off the table. It's like I'm gonna make, I'm gonna make myself have a better day by casting the certain spell or honoring a certain god in a certain way so that they favor me in a certain way and influence myself. It's a lot of like I'm putting my will onto the universe, and there's like this co-creation element. And so in the book, he talks about how self-talk can also be a spell that is cast. And so if you are putting negative self-talk, if you are saying very negative things about yourself, that's essentially implementing a curse on yourself. Whoa, and you are doing it constantly, and now you're chipping away at what would be considered a very healthy self. So this was kind of like his thesis almost of saying, like, well, why don't you hey, have you considered talking nice to yourself? Because think about it as a spell. Exactly. Be like, hey, talk nice, talk well, and then basically like casting positive spells on yourself as a version of self-talk. And I thought that was really interesting.

SPEAKER_02 32:01

I that kind of, you know, what I learned in in the article that I was reading at 3:25 a.m. in a place of desperation. Shell us, share us, was turning negative beliefs about yourself into values of like, I believe that I don't know, I believe that I'm like a a bad person and everyone hates me, but sorting sort of trying to like reframe that as like, well, why do I believe I'm a bad person? That's what we do in DBT.

SPEAKER_00 32:29

I've done that the past year, I've done so much of that. Exactly.

SPEAKER_02 32:33

Why do I believe that? Well, what does that say about me? It says that I really value like being an upstanding citizen or like a whatever. So yeah, reframing your negative beliefs about yourself into values. And then I thought of the Brene Brown list of values, of course. But yeah, I don't know, little little tricks, tricks of the mind to I don't know.

SPEAKER_01 32:54

Wake up.

SPEAKER_02 32:54

Yeah. But it's it's funny you said that because of course my brain went to a place of OCD. Because like a big thing for me is like I always fear that when I say like an intrusive thought out loud, it means that it's gonna come true. Yeah. Like if I say that like I'm afraid that and I even am like feeling scared.

SPEAKER_00 33:12

So I'm like, I don't want to say it. I know.

SPEAKER_02 33:16

I'll make up like a scenario. If I believe that um uh you're being so brave, right? That I'm that I'm gonna accidentally knock my Olipop off the table, then it means that it's gonna happen. Oh yeah. But like um not me also being worried, but replace that with like a severe intrusive thought of like someone I love dying or something like that. Like if I say it out loud, it means it's gonna happen.

SPEAKER_04 33:36

Right. Because it's kind of in line with this like spell casting. If you think it, you're casting a spell.

SPEAKER_02 33:41

Yeah.

SPEAKER_04 33:41

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 33:42

Yeah. So that's that's a big O C D thing for me.

SPEAKER_04 33:45

Well, gave you some fuel for the fire, baby.

SPEAKER_02 33:47

Yeah, is like, yeah. And again, I'm summarizing what I just said. But yeah, like your summary. I don't know. I don't like to vocalize my intrusive thoughts because I feel like that means that they're gonna come true. Like I'm like liter, I literally it's like it's like almost like magical thinking, kind of, you know.

SPEAKER_04 34:03

You know, it is, yeah. Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 34:04

OCD is the only area where I like become superstitious all of a sudden due to mental illness. Yes. Also, I have to pee, so BRB. You guys can keep talking.

SPEAKER_02 34:14

But I I I do agree with that. It's like it's like manifestation, kind of. I don't know. You sort of shape your reality and you the yeah, the the the thoughts and beliefs that you put out into the worlds will become your reality.

SPEAKER_04 34:28

Yeah, yeah. That's why I like really kind of fuck with witchcraft and paganism. I think it's really like it's honoring the relationship between humans and nature, and basically like saying, hey, I also have a place in this existence, and I'm gonna, I'm gonna like place my stake in it. I'm gonna say, hey, I'm gonna do, I'm gonna cast this spell or do this certain ritual. And um basically, like let's say I do a ritual around uh the finances, like something I'm worried about. I'm worried about having enough money this this month or whatever. So I'm gonna cast a spell for it, but then outside of that, um, you've already basically manifested yourself to think about money more because you took time out of your day to build this ritual, say a certain prayer, do a certain chant or something, you've already embodied a part of this desire that you have.

SPEAKER_01 35:17

Yeah.

SPEAKER_04 35:18

So now it's gonna be on your mind throughout the rest of the day. And this isn't this isn't a one-to-one. It's like, I mean, just because you're going to a Christian church doesn't mean that you're gonna love everyone, even though that's like what you're learning, you know, yeah, what Christianity preaches. Exactly, right. It's not a it's not a one-to-one with religion and practice, but with uh with some of these rituals that you're casting, you are now ha are like more open to the idea of like doing more financial things throughout the day. So maybe you'll actually be more take a concerted effort of thinking about your finances for the rest of the day in a way that you wouldn't have before the ritual. And so now it's not to say that the ritual directly impacted your like finances, but it impacted your behavior, which then like changed your finances. Right. And I think that part of it is what I really kind of fuck with.

SPEAKER_02 36:04

Yeah, well, it is true. Like I like I said, it's like your your thoughts and opinions and beliefs do sort of shape your reality, and that's true of like just human nature, I feel like even if even if you take it to the extreme, like young men being radicalized on the internet, it's because they're reading the same things over and over and over and over again. Casting spells, yeah, casting spells to the point where they eventually believe it, or people who like become politically radicalized in any way, or like radicalized through religion or whatever. It's like if you are being exposed to the same message over and over and over again, you will eventually start to believe it, or it will start to affect you. And then there's the opposite end of the coin, too, where if you have a low self-esteem and you start saying positive affirmations and whatever, like you will eventually start to believe it about yourself. So it's casting a spell.

SPEAKER_04 36:56

Honestly, after this book and kind of after this conversation, I have been thinking about being specialized working with like uh more pagan traditions or like new I could, but that's one I'm not ready to tackle yet. But I was thinking about like new age traditions and like if there is a therapist that can specialize in those kinds of religions and religious um yeah, I was like, that might be something I might want to specialize specialize in because I do have a wealth of knowledge that I could use in tandem with my psychotherapy with those clients because I'd be able to meet them where they are at in their religion rather than being like, oh, I'm a Christian that's trying to meet you where you're at. It's like, no, I actually know quite a lot. Yeah. And so like I know, I know what you believe, and I can help you on your journey while also keeping you in your faith, which is like what's gonna be healthy for you.

SPEAKER_02 37:43

I could totally see you having like a sort of specialty in like religious trauma.

SPEAKER_04 37:48

I yeah.

SPEAKER_02 37:48

Yeah, I could I could I mean I think that is really aligned with like grief too, which is like what kind of your wheelhouse is 100%.

SPEAKER_04 37:56

There's lots of overlap.

SPEAKER_02 37:58

Of like deconstructing religion and like deconstructing your worldview. I would imagine that comes with like a lot of grief of like the life you thought you were supposed to have.

SPEAKER_04 38:06

Yeah, big toll. Yeah. Yeah, yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_02 38:08

Wow. So true.

SPEAKER_04 38:10

Anyway, welcome back to our religion pod where we talk about religion all the time. So, Melissa, what do you believe in?

SPEAKER_00 38:15

Nothing. I think that there's no God. And when we die, we just go. Which Jared really does not like. He feel he doesn't believe in God, but he like thinks that there's like a he sort of falls with like Buddhist in the general scheme of things. So he like really finds it very sad that I think we just start like dead and then we're dead. Um but yeah, I think I think we die and then that's it. Which I I don't feel like you two think, but that is what I think.

SPEAKER_02 38:47

I believe in reincarnation 100,000 million percent.

SPEAKER_00 38:51

I think that's I think it's fun to joke about reincarnation, but I don't believe it.

SPEAKER_02 38:55

Oh, I totally do. Oh my god, I totally do. I think I don't know, I mean, I think that when you die, the the soul of Melissa Adkins is gone, right? Like the the the soul of like the life you have lived is gone, but the soul itself has to go somewhere. I think it has to go somewhere, and I think it is maybe reborn into into something else, you know, another person, but the the the person you once were is gone and is left behind forever. But but your soul, where does where does the soul go?

SPEAKER_04 39:31

Yeah, where does I believe in a soul?

SPEAKER_02 39:33

Wow, that's big.

SPEAKER_04 39:35

That is big, yeah.

SPEAKER_00 39:36

What are you doing, man?

SPEAKER_04 39:37

I also I'm kind of like I feel like I'm always caught between the two realms because I was really burned by Christianity. Yeah, really burned by it. And even the like other religions that I have learned about, you know, Buddhism, Hinduism, and a lot of the pagan traditions that I've been learning about, there's a lot of stuff that I'm across the board that I'm not convinced about, but I am still kind of that like agnostic kind of thing where I'm like, there might be something that happens after, but my scientific mind is like I'm not convinced. Like I don't see I don't see the evidence yet. So in the same way, I feel like I do believe what you believe, but then I also am like I also believe what you believe.

SPEAKER_02 40:17

Yeah.

SPEAKER_04 40:17

And then I do feel caught because those are kind of conflicting beliefs. Like antithetical, but I don't know.

SPEAKER_02 40:23

I think I was I was just watching an Instagram reel. Yeah, tell us um where someone was talking about how like when human beings die, our brain releases DMT naturally, which is a drug you can do. And everyone who's ever done DMT that I've heard of, positive experience.

SPEAKER_01 40:43

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 40:44

Positive experience. Because it's just is like your brain is just flooded with like it's like you're seeing your life in front of you again, and it's so happy and it's so like peaceful, yeah, and so like it's just this like overwhelming feelings of like positivity and joy. And that's something that the human brain just does when you die. Yeah, you know, reaching chemical. And so then people think that like when you die, like that's the state that you like remain in, your like your soul remains in. It's just whatever, whatever it is that you're experiencing in that moment is sh is what your new like eternity is. Wow.

SPEAKER_04 41:21

Oh my gosh, when your physical body dies. Yeah, you've got my mind racing. I know my mind racing because uh for a while I was thinking that you know, if I'm gonna think about the afterlife and all the different religious traditions that I've dabbled in, I'm like, let's say there is an afterlife. Let's say there is. Um, and for a while this is what I believe that there like is an afterlife, but every time someone dies, it kind of like once you once you pass that threshold, it changes to like whatever tradition you believed in in this life. And so, like, let's say you did, you've firmly believed in the Christian God. So the second you cross that threshold into death, you've entered into this world of heaven.

SPEAKER_02 42:00

And if you're white Jesus greets you at the pearl gate.

SPEAKER_00 42:08

They might be.

SPEAKER_04 42:09

They might be.

SPEAKER_00 42:10

If you did good.

SPEAKER_04 42:11

Yeah, exactly. Right, yeah. But then this is the the yeah.

SPEAKER_02 42:14

Um if you're in the good place.

SPEAKER_04 42:16

If you're in the good place, but then it got me thinking of like these after uh or near-death experiences where those people probably have gone through that DMT experience and maybe, I mean, in this theoretical approach, cross that threshold briefly because they had this like very ethereal experience with drugs, and they experienced what they perceived to be the afterlife. And so that's what they imagined. Their brains were imagining on this drug that like this is the afterlife for them. Yeah, that just got me thinking. Like, does DMT also act for those people who have near-death experiences with the one foot into the grave, but not quite yet, because their mind is still you know shutting down using DMT, giving them some sort of experience, and then come back and then claiming that that was indeed the afterlife. I don't know. I feel like this is yeah, kind of everywhere.

SPEAKER_00 43:06

Like um, it's probably giving you like it's like similar to what you said, where it gives you what you expect, right? Like what you're putting in is what you're getting out. It's like making me think of I can't remember his name, but there's a guy who jumped off the Golden Gate Bridge and survived.

SPEAKER_04 43:23

Yes.

SPEAKER_00 43:24

And he speaks a lot about like being a survivor of an attempted suicide. But he is very religious, and so he talks about it as a religious experience. But I do think it's like less common than people think for people who are close to death to like really experience that like near death experience because there's usually trauma associated, and your either emotionally or physically your brain like shuts that off. And so, like, I think it is like an interesting thing of I wonder how I guess my question that I don't know that we can know the answer to is like how many people have really experienced like a near death experience and been conscious for that. Because I think that's such a like a like if you get in a big car a lot of people who like wake up and almost died, it's like I remember the moments leading up to it, but I don't remember that thing happening. You know what I mean? Because it was bad. Like you you got knocked around.

SPEAKER_01 44:16

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 44:16

But I just like wonder, I don't know how many people have this like near death experience and what they think about it. Yeah. Or like even uh I don't know how how do we quantify near death? What makes you near like I mean I've seen lots of people in the hospital who are like not gonna die but are near death. Have you ever have either of you ever seen? I guess you probably have, have you ever seen somebody who is actually near death? Yes. Like have seen have you seen, I know you have, yeah. It's a weird experience. It is weird. Yeah, it's scary.

SPEAKER_02 44:46

It is scary, it's scary, but I'm also terrified of death.

SPEAKER_00 44:49

So yeah. Yeah, yeah. I'm not terrified of death, but it is really odd. And like my grandma started talking to her husband when she was dying.

SPEAKER_04 44:57

This is a really cool thing. Yeah. Watch this documentary that was people working at uh it was a hospice center where people died frequently, and there was this one guy, it was the director, I think, and he was um he had these experiences that like once people would like start seeing loved ones, that's like that was like the two-week mark of being like you got two weeks to live. Um, but I'm wondering just now from this conversation how much of that is related to DMT, probably not directly, but like I wonder if there is some sort of like the brain is already preparing for that release of DMT at that two-week mark, and then maybe already like giving them some sort of hallucinations related to their life and the loved ones that have already passed, because it is often the people that have already died, that have already gone on.

SPEAKER_00 45:47

And so I mean my grandma was deeply religious, yeah, yeah, deeply Catholic.

SPEAKER_04 45:53

Yeah, so but yeah, is are ghosts part of the Catholic tradition?

SPEAKER_00 45:58

Uh kind of, but like I would say my understanding is of like ghosts is less like a ooh, more like a spirit. The Holy Spirit. There's the Holy Spirit, but there's also like the like our loved ones are with us, like yeah, and you you go like you bury people, the Catholic. But I don't know if there's like go like magic ghosts, magic ghosties.

SPEAKER_04 46:23

I mean, I'm loving this conversation, you guys. I like it. We're getting deep. We started like giggling. Hey, I'm still giggling. I don't know. I love I love talking about death.

SPEAKER_02 46:31

The thing that brings me comfort sometimes because again, I'm terrified of death. I've I've felt like I've had like a you know, a death date for my entire life because of my family history. And now that I've passed that and I'm kind of like, now what? I don't, I don't know. I'm just always fearing death. But the thing that brings me great comfort is like sometimes I'll get caught in these rabbit holes of like people who have had like actual near-death experiences where like they have seen what a a glimpse of the afterlife or what happens when you die, like they have experienced dying and then made it back. Is like I have never seen someone who's had a near-death experience who said it was bad. Like the trauma leading up to it was bad, like whatever, but the actual experience of dying before they come back around, everybody describes it as like overwhelmingly peaceful. Feeling just at peace.

SPEAKER_04 47:29

I love that.

SPEAKER_02 47:29

Feeling at peace and coming back and not fearing death anymore because they they've gotten a taste of it of what happens when it when you're going to die.

SPEAKER_04 47:38

Is that the DMT?

SPEAKER_02 47:40

Yeah, I think so.

SPEAKER_04 47:41

Damn.

SPEAKER_02 47:42

Yeah. Yeah. And so coming back from a near-death experience and it making you one appreciate life so much more, yeah, and two, not being afraid to die anymore because they've experienced it and it was peaceful and it was positive and it was happy, and it was like love and just everything.

SPEAKER_04 48:01

I love that.

SPEAKER_02 48:02

And that brings me great comfort because I'm so scared to die. I don't want to ever die because I love I love living. Yeah. I love living. So yeah.

SPEAKER_00 48:11

Love it.

SPEAKER_04 48:12

I love it.

SPEAKER_00 48:12

I love it.

SPEAKER_04 48:14

It's so fucking good. I feel like we've gotten into so much already.

SPEAKER_00 48:17

I know, I know. Holy shit. Do you want to go to confessions?

SPEAKER_04 48:20

Yeah, do you want to confess? Confess. Oh, yeah, this is a good one to talk about today. Um, so my confession is I do believe that religion and science are stemming from the same part of the brain.

SPEAKER_00 48:35

I don't know what you mean by that.

SPEAKER_04 48:38

So um science is one way that we construct a reality. And we use it using like different kinds of like fail-safe methods that we can like trust what's going on. And that's how we build our world. We build what we know to be true, and there is like a way of going about it. It that like is a way that you can trust the world that's around you, uh, but religion is also kind of the same thing that you're building how you view the world, mostly how you view morality and view other people and the relationships with people, but it is also how you view the afterlife. And so in terms of like how we're constructing our reality, I think those stem from like the same kind of needs. So you see, that's why I feel like when religion was so opposed to science at first, I think it was because they were competing ideologies. Because again, there's famously been scientists that have been killed at the hand of religious folks. And it is something that I have like still a growing opinion on, but I think it is something that I I kind of believe they're kind of from the same same thing, but they can also be in tandem because again, science can't get to the part of the afterlife, like it can't offer up any scientific way of building the reality of the afterlife, but religion can because it has a different way of building reality than science does.

SPEAKER_02 50:05

I guess I guess I could kind of see what you're saying because like I don't know, both things are like driven by like a belief and like a faith, I guess, perspective that like this is what you like strongly know and believe to be true, but religion isn't as like fact-based as science. So, but but again, it's like I don't know. Or religion isn't as like evidence-based as science.

SPEAKER_04 50:33

When that's the thing, and in science, we believe in this like scientific method.

SPEAKER_02 50:38

Yeah.

SPEAKER_04 50:38

That's our belief system, right? Because that is shown to like test our reality in certain ways, right? And I do think that is like there's there's a lot to be said about not poo-pooing science. I'm like very much I'm like, yeah, believe in science. But I'm saying that that is the belief system that science is built on, is this scientific method.

SPEAKER_02 50:58

Right. And I suppose that like religious beliefs are like kind of built on their own version of that.

SPEAKER_04 51:03

Correct. Where they're like, hey, we don't have the scientific method, but we have this book.

SPEAKER_02 51:08

Right.

unknown 51:09

Yeah.

SPEAKER_04 51:09

Which is problematic in a different sense, but essentially the reality is. So there's this book. So there's this book.

SPEAKER_00 51:14

Hey, I'm not sure if I'm with you. So there's this book.

SPEAKER_04 51:18

I do want to hear your opinion.

SPEAKER_00 51:19

I'm not sure if I agree with you. I was like processing. I feel like when I look at the video, it'll look like I'm annoyed at you, but I'm just processing. No, you're processing. No, that's what I'm saying. Also, I very much am a person who does like the JD from Scrubs thing where when I'm thinking, I like look to the corner and like kind of have a daydream.

SPEAKER_04 51:33

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 51:33

Um, which I try not to do, but then I just do it.

SPEAKER_04 51:37

But tell me, I what yeah, what do you got?

SPEAKER_00 51:38

I don't necessarily agree with you partially because I think that religion, if you get down to it, they won't say like this is what we believe because this book says or whatever. Like part of many, at least Christian religions, is that like part of the point is that there's faith. Part of the point is that you don't need evidence because you have faith. And so the like Bible notwithstanding, you should still believe in God. Right. Like, you should not need a single slice of evidence because you should you should know that there is religion versus science is like I guess I don't think that I think about science in that vein. Like I don't think of it as a parallel to religion, and I don't think of it like in a comparable way. Like not in a bad way, or that like I disagree with you about that. Like I just think that they're two very different things.

SPEAKER_04 52:35

I mean they serve different purposes.

SPEAKER_00 52:36

And that they sort of yeah, I think that's what that's where I disagree with you, is I think that they serve different purposes. So I think like they're not comparable to me as you're saying that. Yeah, but like I see what you're saying. I see where I'm going. And I was I was you'll yeah, I was I was thinking as you were speaking because I was trying to also process and ensure that I understood what you meant by it.

SPEAKER_04 52:55

Yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_00 52:56

That's interesting.

SPEAKER_04 52:57

That's great. And it also makes me feel like I should have completed that class, the psychology of religion. But fuck that, Professor. Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 53:04

Fuck it.

SPEAKER_04 53:05

Anyway, just me throwing uh noodles at the wall. So I hope they're sticking.

SPEAKER_02 53:09

I love it. I love it. Um, well, I didn't really have a confession, so I'm just gonna say what's on my mind. Um tell us. And the confession is that I love Chick-fil-A as we're discussing religion. That's a religious experience. This is a big one. This is a big one. I always crave it on Sundays when they're closed on the Lord's Day.

SPEAKER_00 53:27

And if that's not an indicator of religion, I don't know what it is.

SPEAKER_04 53:30

Right. Um, their sauce is so good.

SPEAKER_02 53:33

Those damn chicken nuggets, I'm telling you. So good.

SPEAKER_04 53:37

That one quote in the good place where they talked about Chick-fil-A.

SPEAKER_02 53:41

I don't remember.

SPEAKER_04 53:42

So is the one episode where my Rudolph goes down to Earth and then comes back up and is like, wow, Earth is bad. And she's like, uh, and yeah, Eleanor goes, I know there's this chicken, and if you eat it, it means you hate the gays. And I think about that constantly.

SPEAKER_02 53:57

I gotta say, gay people love Chick-fil-A. I know gays love Chick-fil-A the last time I went to Chick-fil-A with gay people.

SPEAKER_04 54:04

Yeah, but Chick-fil-A hates the gays. I still haven't eaten there in like two or three years because I'm like, I hate that they hate me more. But I also have like it's my one's choice.

SPEAKER_02 54:14

If you want to go sometime, we can go. Okay, cool. I'll pay. It's on your time, let's go back. It's my job as an ally. Are you an ally? It's my job as a cis bisexual woman who primarily dates men to buy Chick-fil-A for a gay person.

SPEAKER_00 54:35

Um that's your reparation.

SPEAKER_02 54:37

Yeah, it is.

SPEAKER_04 54:38

Like that one time I messaged Jillian.

SPEAKER_00 54:39

You Venma requested Chick-fil-A.

SPEAKER_04 54:41

Venma requested Gillian out of the out of the blue.

SPEAKER_00 54:43

I think it was like it was during the fine month, and we were talking about how she outed you to me, and then he Venma requested her and said reparations for outing me. And I hope she fulfilled the request. And she fulfilled the request.

SPEAKER_04 54:55

She paid it on the spot almost immediately. Shout out, Gillian, love you, babe.

SPEAKER_02 55:00

So that's my confession is that right now all I'm thinking about is an eight-piece nugget meal from Chick-fil-C-A.

SPEAKER_04 55:06

Let's go. Oh, it's Sunday.

SPEAKER_02 55:08

Sunday, we can go tomorrow.

SPEAKER_00 55:09

Wow, let's go tomorrow. My confession is I put um a deposit on a car yesterday. I'm confessing that I've become a car person, apparently. Yeah. Not really, but like I've never wanted a car in my life before. And I wanted a car. And now I'm getting one.

SPEAKER_04 55:29

Whoa.

SPEAKER_00 55:30

So I'm getting a new car in a couple weeks. She's in Portland right now trying to clear customs.

SPEAKER_04 55:36

What kind of car does it tell us?

SPEAKER_00 55:38

A Prius, obviously. What do you think, Nick? Come on. I figured it was, but don't don't do me like that. I'm a Prius girl. Uh 2026 Prius. Brand new girl. Brand new. So that's my confession is that I've wanted a car now, and I did it.

SPEAKER_04 55:55

Wow, you're an adult.

SPEAKER_00 55:57

I know. I like really I I I've never this is another new feeling to me is wanting a car. So lots of new things lately. New things. New feelings. My other confession is I also know the meds are working because it's less than three months until I move, and I'm freaking out less than I think I would be.

SPEAKER_04 56:16

You're doing great.

SPEAKER_00 56:16

Less than three months, you guys. Whoa! Lots of new things. Lots of new things. Well, thanks for listening to the pal. Love you. Thank you for listening to Dickress and Confess. Our show was created and produced by us, Holly, Nick, and Melissa. Our show was edited by Nick. Our music is also by Nick. The views we share on our podcast are our own and do not represent the views of our employers. If you enjoyed hanging out with us, please rate and review wherever you're listening.

SPEAKER_01 56:44

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