digress & confess

Marinara Targaryen

• Season 1 • Episode 19

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0:00 | 1:04:57

*SPOILERS AHEAD for Doctor Who*

TRUST IN THE REDDIT with all your heart.

Join Holly, Nick, and Melissa jumping right in with fake laughter, AI psychosis, and Doctor Who. Holly discovers Doctor Who is not a medical drama, Nick reveals his Nanowrimo past, and Melissa unearths her true first impressions. What is this podcast if not for the eclectic nature of friends and their strong roots dated back to Melissa’s 2013 party? This episode has the welcomed return to confessions at the end. Thanks for joining us and don’t forget—it’s OK to look up words you don’t know. 

P.S. The song Melissa was thinking of is Sticky by Tyler, the Creator

Wired article on what went down with NaNoWriMo: https://www.wired.com/story/nanowrimo-organizers-classist-and-ableist-to-condemn-ai/

Anti-Intellectualism in American Life: https://bookshop.org/p/books/anti-intellectualism-in-american-life-richard-hofstadter/d41951eddf73b53f?ean=9780394703176

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Thank you for listening queenifers!

Digress & Confess was created by us—Holly, Nick, & Melissa. The show's music was mixed by Nick, with credit to Kevin Macleod. The show is edited by Nick (& sometimes Melissa). Thank you to Brian for your editing guidance. Thank you to Jess for taking our season 1 show photo.

Follow the show on Instagram @digressconfesspod for the latest!

SPEAKER_04

Digress and confess.

SPEAKER_00

Also, something that I love about your laugh is the fact that you and your mom laugh the same way. We do do. And I think it's so cute.

SPEAKER_01

We really do. We both throw our heads back and like give a laugh. Yeah. And it's good. You're a you're a cackler. Yeah. You're a cackler. Yeah. Should I do the Simba? Bitch. Shut the fuck out.

SPEAKER_02

Something we should discuss on pod is performative laughing.

SPEAKER_01

Let's do it. We'll have to tread carefully.

SPEAKER_02

We'll have to tread lightly because the example I'll use on Mike is Sim. There's a man on Love Island, his name's Simba, and he laughs in a way where like here.

SPEAKER_01

Should we should we pause this and then welcome back to Digress and Confess? Yes, welcome back.

SPEAKER_02

Welcome back to our podcast.

SPEAKER_01

Not the whole episode, but we're just this is where we're this is where we're beginning.

SPEAKER_02

This is where we're be we're we're beginning here on Digress and Confess. God created our podcast that is about nothing and everything. Yeah. Um we're discussing performative laughing and how sometimes people will sort of carry out a laughter that you can tell isn't genuine. It's not coming from their body, it's like coming forcibly from their mind.

SPEAKER_04

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02

You know what I mean? So Simba on Love Island, he'll kind of like in place of laughter, he'll kind of go like he'll like fake laugh and then go. Like as if he's like continuing the laugh, but like he's making this disgusting, like Yeah. That's not that's not a laugh. Or it's like someone will laugh at a joke, but then they'll be like, you know what I mean?

SPEAKER_01

Yeah, it's like it's the vibe of giving like a 12-year-old water and saying it's alcohol. Yeah.

SPEAKER_02

Yeah. And then they're like, it's just like a fake force, or like when someone's like pretending they're laughing really hard for some reason and they're like flapping their knee and they're going like and it's like not funny. Oh like they're just it's like stop. Like we are. Who are you performing for?

SPEAKER_00

Yeah, who's a scoop?

SPEAKER_02

Who are you performing for?

SPEAKER_01

We're grown.

SPEAKER_02

So we may maybe this is like hopefully this isn't a niche issue, but I can always clock when someone's like fake laughing. It really pisses me off. Yeah. Nick, what kind of laugher do you think you are?

SPEAKER_00

I don't know. I'm just like an always laugher kind of guy. That's what I'm I'm worried about. The giggler is. Well, because the thing is, I think there is sometimes where it does feel performative. Well, I don't know if I'd feel like it is performative, but there's some moments where I'm laughing and I'm like, do I actually think that's funny?

SPEAKER_01

But you you you it's very easy to elicit a laugh from you though.

SPEAKER_00

Oh, yeah.

SPEAKER_01

And so I think you sometimes laugh at stuff that's not that funny just because you're a giggler.

SPEAKER_00

Just because it's a laugh, here's what I think.

SPEAKER_02

Here's what I think. I don't think laughter is reserved for things that are funny. I think laughter is just like a joyous response. So you can laugh when you're happy, you can laugh when something's funny. So we've got a cackler, a giggler. What kind of laugher am I? You're also a giggler.

SPEAKER_00

Yeah, I think you're a giggler. We've we've giggled together. You guys are gigglers.

SPEAKER_02

I am a giggler. You know, I suppose if I were gonna answer that question myself, I would say I'm a squeaker. Like I often like laugh, am laughing where no sound is coming out, and then going, yeah, you do squeak.

SPEAKER_01

You do squeak. But you you giggle a lot because you have a very petite feminine laugh. Oh just like your voice.

SPEAKER_02

Do you are are you well Nick, I don't know if you are, but Melissa, I know you are familiar with a twink and a redhead. Yeah, yeah. I do love her, I do love her laugh when she's like she's so funny, yeah. She's so funny. And you are, and hopefully I didn't just blow the mic out doing that. But that's probably fine. It's good. It's so good.

SPEAKER_01

There's one there's one woman on Rehasos of Atlanta, Kenya, who I can't stand, who's just like she's really pathetic as a person, unfortunately. Um she is desperate for a man, and so she's like, but she's 46 years old, and so she's like, she'll see men and she's 46 years old, and she's like, Mama, you're 46. It's time to put that laugh down.

SPEAKER_00

Is that how you view Heather Gay too? Yes. Okay, yeah.

SPEAKER_01

Can't believe you brought her name up to my mind. I don't forget.

SPEAKER_00

I I'm learning because I'm on Reddit now. I'm learning.

SPEAKER_01

Many oh Reddit for Housewives is brutal. It is brutal. Witches are telling me.

SPEAKER_00

Exactly. And Reddit really like Reddit really hates Heather Gay. And I'm like kind of figuring it out. I'm like, okay, I'm getting your thesis. I didn't really see that on the show because I was like always on her side for some reason. Right.

SPEAKER_02

Well, Heather's loser. Heather had a strong start. Heather had a strong start, and then after she kind of lost weight and like went on her book tour, the loser behavior really sort of came out.

SPEAKER_00

Kind of did. Yeah.

SPEAKER_01

I love the uh Real Housewives Subreddit because people's flair is like their favorite Real Housewives quotes, and so it always makes me giggle laugh. Yeah. The memes shared in there are crazy. The gossip people have in there are crazy. Like I'm obsessed.

SPEAKER_00

I love it. I love it. It's so good. I've been of course been following the Rory one, and it's been really nice to be included. The fact that Liz isn't coming back. Devastated. Have you finished watching yet?

SPEAKER_02

No. Buddy is ma. Buddy is ma. I can't. Okay, you know what? Here's what I can see happening for Liz. Okay. I think that she probably is in some like shady business handlers and is like making a swift exit. I do see her returning. Wow. If Rory continues, I see her doing like a Bethany comeback. Yeah. You know? A couple seasons later, I can see her joining the crew again. Yeah.

SPEAKER_01

Because I know she had an invite back. Because she was seated next to Andy at the reunion. For sure. And um I think she might have been the middle.

SPEAKER_02

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01

Which Jared said he didn't know that the seating matters in terms of importance. It's like an orchestra. I'm like, no, no, no. There's a first chair. There's a first chair. If you're seated next to Andy, you basically have a ticket back. Yeah. Or you really fucked up. Right. Yeah. And there's no in between. He didn't realize that. Dumb. Dumb. He'll never listen to that. Say whatever the fuck I want.

SPEAKER_00

God, I feel like there's so much I want to talk about because I don't know.

SPEAKER_01

No, we haven't recorded. We haven't recorded as a group in a couple weeks. And last time we recorded, we did die a little. If you if if you're a real fan, you would have listened to the episode that sounded like shit due to us for getting record. Um and yeah, I do think the air could have.

SPEAKER_02

We all immediately looked.

SPEAKER_01

It's funny, right? Meet big laugh.

SPEAKER_02

You know what? That I do love that we have on video being like my gasp. My gasp.

SPEAKER_01

And it just goes, yeah.

SPEAKER_02

Thank you for listening. I dress my gasp. I liked my animal. Yeah, I liked my eyes.

SPEAKER_00

It was funny.

SPEAKER_02

The light, the light leaving our eyes. Yeah.

SPEAKER_00

Historic.

SPEAKER_02

Well, I started laughing. I gasped. Very funny. Jaw dropped, and then I just started laughing.

SPEAKER_00

You could literally just you could feel the air leave all of us. We were just done.

SPEAKER_01

Oh, I told Holly this, but I mean to bring this up with you. Is that my I posted on my Instagram, like my personal Instagram, I posted those pictures of us, some other photos of us in the cowboy hats. Yeah. And I saw my mom yesterday, and she was like, When were you and Nick and Holly in cowboy hats? Like, why was that? And I was like, Oh, like we went to a party and it was like and she was like, Oh, I was like, is this AI or something?

SPEAKER_00

Oh.

SPEAKER_01

And I was like, mom, you never have to worry that I'm posting AI generated photos of me and my two best friends.

SPEAKER_00

God no.

SPEAKER_01

That's actually gonna be when I'm you'll know that I miss you too much in North Carolina because I'm generating photos of us taking it.

SPEAKER_02

You've inputted, you've inputted our text conversations into Claude to replicate us.

SPEAKER_00

Yeah. It's a cry for help.

SPEAKER_01

I'm like a desperate. Yeah. Yeah. That's when you'll know when it's serious. I'm in psychosis. I was gonna say, it's like that.

SPEAKER_02

You do you remember that tweet that was like, um, I can always tell when my friend is in psychosis because she changes her profile picture to Lady Gaga? Like she thinks she's Lady Gaga, and I can always tell. Me posting me and my friends hanging out. Yeah. It's AI photos and AI photos of us. For and for some reason in like Western wear.

SPEAKER_01

Literally. Yeah. So I thought that was extremely funny. It is funny. And I was like, no, those are real. My dad was like, where are you guys? So literally, yeah. And I said, Oh, we're on the roof. And he says, It looks like you're on the ground, though. Like you're standing on something. And I said, No, we're still standing on the roof.

SPEAKER_00

We were standing on the roof.

SPEAKER_01

I mean, what the roof is the ground. Is the ground. I know. I was like, what do you mean? What's happening here? He was very confused about how we could be standing on a roof, but still, I guess, like, have solid something underneath us.

SPEAKER_00

Well, he's imagining like a roof that's like. Yeah.

SPEAKER_01

But he's been on my roof. I guess he's. You've been on the roof with him. Like I was like, what is this? I don't know. He's he's delirious from putting in eye drops for his his cataract surgery on Tuesday, I guess. I don't know. Cataracts do that too. Tony's faded off the drops. Yeah, he's faded off the drops. Faded off the drops. Exactly. Well, what do you have on your agenda for today? What's going on, Nicholas?

SPEAKER_00

Well, I was just thinking about Beverly Hills. I feel like we haven't really talked about Beverly. Does our podcast really need to be a Real Housewives podcast?

SPEAKER_01

That's all the feedback I've heard from people. It's like, you guys do talk about Real Housewives a lot. A lot.

SPEAKER_00

We do.

SPEAKER_01

Because we're watching a lot. Honey, it's a lifestyle.

SPEAKER_00

It is a lifestyle. I mean, I also have recently gotten back into Doctor Who. So I've been like neck to the body. Well, did you ever leave? Right. Did you ever need to be a little bit more? I mean, I didn't. I usually take a break. I took a break and then now I'm back. But it's the same way like with Real Housewives, where it's like, you know, you have your seasons and then you leave and you come back. But Doctor Who is in its well second wilderness years, which I don't know if I've have I talked to you guys about this? No. Okay. So the history of Doctor Who. A very brief abridged version.

SPEAKER_01

So I feel like I know the history.

SPEAKER_00

I'm sure you do. So it aired from 1963, um, the day after JFK got shot was the first episode. Huge. Um basically ran from 1963 until 1989. Right. And then basically the BBC in 1989 was like, well, we'll like put it out to Tender to see like if anybody you know wants to buy it, and you know, then then we'll like return after that. Well, you know, years went by where all of a sudden it was 2000 and no one had still bought Doctor Who to like keep it going for the next season. So that's when the reboot happened in 2005. Um and then it ran from 2005 until last year when they aired like the final episode of the season, and everyone was like, Oh, don't worry, there's gonna be a Christmas episode in 2026. Don't worry about it.

SPEAKER_01

It's a big thing every year, right? It's like there's always like a big Christmas episode.

SPEAKER_00

It's a big holiday episode in some way. They, you know, they did a while. I'm remembering this from the Tumblr years. Yeah, exactly. Because that's how they did a lot. They had a lot of Christmas episodes in like the new new who era. But at the end of this last season that came out, there was a big cliffhanger at the end of it where um, spoiler, skip ahead if you don't if you don't want this, but basically the end of it, the doctor regenerates into Billy Piper.

SPEAKER_01

Oh, yeah, I saw a lot of people dying at the same time.

SPEAKER_00

And Billy Piper was like a previous companion of the doctor, and it was like I don't know, the reactions were like generally positive, like in the moment, but in the way that like it was like a flashbang.

SPEAKER_01

It was like everyone is excited to see her.

SPEAKER_00

Yeah, everyone's excited to see her, but then uh basically 24 hours later, everyone was like, Bro, what? Be like, was this really a good choice?

SPEAKER_01

Because she left the show in what like 2012 or something.

SPEAKER_00

Yeah, I think even earlier, like 20. She's been gone for a long time. Yeah, she's been gone for a long time. And basically, no one was really convinced that she was gonna play the doctor. There was all these conspiracy theories about what's happening behind, you know, behind the curtain. And essentially, two or three weeks ago, we got confirmation that the Christmas special that was supposed to be in 2026 actually was never supposed to happen. It was one of those like weird PR moves that they were like, we hope to do a Christmas special, but they told everyone that they are doing it. Oh, and so there's all these rumors about like scripts that were being written, but there's actually none of them. People aren't able to find any of it. No one actually agreed to do this Christmas special. And now, after the last season, that was hosted on Disney Plus. And that was kind of the last episode for Disney Plus. Disney Plus didn't renew Doctor Who, and so now the BBC again is like, okay, well, we're putting it out to tender to see if anybody wants it. Like, and there are a few places that are like kind of interested, so there might be some movement, but the fandom right now is basically like this is the second wilderness years. Like this is like we are not expecting Doctor Who to hit our screens again. Um, probably for I mean, a lot of I'm I'm expecting like at least five years. That's kind of where my I'm placing my heart there because I'm like, I don't want to get too excited of like if something you know happens further down the line, but uh do you think that they should let me ask you this as a fellow Holly and I are fans of things as well.

SPEAKER_01

Yeah. Sometimes I feel like I mean, I know Holly feels very strongly this way about music, but sometimes I feel like you need to put something away for a while and then you can return to it if it's the right time. Do you feel like Doctor Who should go away for a little bit, or would you rather they continue?

SPEAKER_00

I strongly agree with that. Like I think that they should it should go out to time. Yeah, it should take it some time to relax. Yeah. Because the thing the thing with Doctor Who in the modern era, like David Tennant and Matt Smith, their run was like the height of New Who. Yeah. So ever since then, people have compared the seasons to those eras. And I think the fans that do that are doing this like TV show fundamentally like a disservice.

SPEAKER_01

They're not viewing it as its own, like correct.

SPEAKER_00

Because like the whole point of the Doctor is that they change their face and they, you know, move on. And and you of course have like new showrunners, new production teams, new everything. But like Yeah. Yeah. Basically, I think it's okay that the show's going out. It's going not not out to pasture, but like we're just they're putting a break on it because it's yeah, it's time. There's too much like fan serviceiness in the last couple of years that it's time to go. But that's been like big on my mind lately because I love Doctor Who, I love how it represents change, I love the stories that are that are in it. I think it's really fun and kind of a romp. And lately I've been watching getting back in, especially with the second doctor, who's like from 68. No, like 65 to 69 or something like that. That was that was his run.

SPEAKER_01

Well, it interacts with us being 60s girls.

SPEAKER_00

Yeah, we are, yeah. So hold that. You're feeling very called.

SPEAKER_01

Oops, I just played Footsies with Holly on accident. Wow. You're feeling very called to the 60s.

SPEAKER_00

I am, yeah.

SPEAKER_01

So as I always am. Yeah.

SPEAKER_00

So that was a big digression today about Doctor Who, but it's really important to me.

SPEAKER_01

I'd love to hear that.

SPEAKER_02

And I have to be so real, and I'm sure it was uh obvious by my complete silence. I know literally nothing about Doctor Who. Like, I'm gonna be honest with you. I to be honest with you, Diane, I did not even know. I didn't even know Doctor Who was like still actively airing. If you were like, tell me about Doctor Who, to me, I would say it's a TV show. I don't know when I don't know when it's from. Like, I guess I thought it was like a TV show from like 2012-ish, which is I was at the height. That was at the height. Which in some ways is true, but I'm like, is this from like the 60s? I had no idea. And then you mentioned Doctor Who being, it's like that famous thing of like the Doctor was a woman. I didn't know that. Yeah. But then I'm thinking, well, the show is called Doctor Who. So it seems like the Doctor could be anyone. Whoa, don't know anything about Doctor Who. Didn't know it was still airing, didn't know it was as old as it is. Um I just know that it's a TV show that people are people on Tumblr really like.

SPEAKER_01

Because wasn't the most recent doctor famous Shudie?

SPEAKER_00

Shudigawa?

SPEAKER_01

Yeah. Which people were not happy about a black gay doctor.

SPEAKER_00

Oh, of course not.

SPEAKER_01

Of course that went over very poorly.

SPEAKER_00

Which is actually a big reason that uh at least initially there was like low viewership because black gay doctor. Yeah. I mean historically the the UK is racist.

SPEAKER_01

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00

He's gorgeous. Yeah. And he's brilliant. I think his doctor is really, really great.

unknown

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00

It's just a shame that it got it got axed the way it did.

SPEAKER_01

I feel like, and Brian, you can text me and tell me Melissa, shut the fuck up. That's not what I said. I feel like Brian said that he liked his doctor but didn't like the writing.

SPEAKER_00

Correct.

SPEAKER_01

Like I think he was like, he was like, I like how he's playing him, but I don't like the way he's being written. So yeah.

SPEAKER_02

What what is like the premise of the show? Is there just a new is it like a m is it like a medical show?

SPEAKER_00

No.

SPEAKER_02

It's like a doctor show.

SPEAKER_00

No, that's great. No, yeah. So then like, okay, there's a new doctor, but it's like I'm trying so hard not to laugh because I understand. I don't give a fuck.

SPEAKER_01

Laugh at me. I don't give a shit. So it has to do with it. I've never watched Doctor Who, but I know so much about it from Nick and my family. I'm like, I don't know. It's some alien shit. Anna loves it.

SPEAKER_00

Oh yeah, it's a great one. Yeah. It's about aliens and shit. So basically, basically.

SPEAKER_02

So the doctor's not a medical doctor. Correct. The doctor is an alien.

SPEAKER_00

Well, yeah. It could be a medical doctor, but isn't it?

SPEAKER_02

And the more you're telling me, the more I'm like, this sounds like something I would never even consider watching. Exactly. No, it's just to be honest.

SPEAKER_00

So do you know what the like police box is? The like blue police box? No.

SPEAKER_01

Like the imagery if I showed it to you, would you She would recognize it from Tumblr, but I don't think she could pull it out of thin air from her brain. But she would say, Yes, I saw that on Tumblr.

SPEAKER_03

Yeah, I think.

SPEAKER_02

Okay, yeah, yeah. That is what I was inv- I was like, I'm thinking of like a British telephone box but blue. Which that is what it is.

SPEAKER_00

Exactly what it is. Yeah. So these were popular. These were popular in the 50s. Yeah. And so you just see them all around the streets in the 50s in London.

SPEAKER_02

In Londento.

SPEAKER_00

Londentown.

SPEAKER_04

Like what we call it.

SPEAKER_00

London Town. Basically, the doctor flies in a spaceship that looks just like this.

SPEAKER_02

Immediately I'm pissed off. Immediately I'm like, I don't, I don't, yeah.

SPEAKER_00

But uh when the doctor traveled to 1960s, we have my reaction on video.

SPEAKER_02

I said my eyes. Okay, I have an attitude.

SPEAKER_00

Off, off. Here we go. Love it. Basically, the doctor like flies around time and space using this little machine. So it's also a time machine and this space machine and can kind of go wherever in the universe. And what's really cool about it is it's bigger on the inside. So you walk through the doors, and then it's like a spaceship. It's a portal. And yeah, it's but it's been a good thing.

SPEAKER_01

But the doctor, you're talking about the doctor can change, so you're saying there are different people playing the doctor.

SPEAKER_00

So the doctor as an alien comes from a special species. Right. Um they're called time lords.

SPEAKER_03

Okay.

SPEAKER_00

Yeah. Arrogant fucks. And they basically when they die, their body's able to regenerate a certain number of times. And so that's why the the doctor changes their face. It was basically a ploy at the very first doctor, was this old man, and he was actually struggling. Well, he wasn't old, he started, he was like 57 or something when he was like, '60s where you're like, that person looks like they're 80 and they're 50 years old.

SPEAKER_01

Yeah, they're smoking four packs a day. Exactly, kind of. Then drinking a bottle of gin a day. Yeah.

SPEAKER_00

And he was like already struggling with like some cognitive decline at that moment. So when he was trying to remember all these lines for the show, he was like, We have a plan. Like flubbing a lot. And so then, yeah, they were like, because even the the first doctor, William Hartnall, he was like, I don't know how much longer I can do this, you guys. He's like, I love doing this, but like I can't, I can't keep doing it. And when his seasons were happening, it was only getting more and more popular with every single season. So he was on for three seasons and it just was the popularity was skyrocketing. And they were like, And they were like, What the fuck do we do? We can't kill off our titular character. Like, what do you mean? Um, and then they came up with this idea because they hadn't ever explained his like alien race during that first run of the show. That they were like, Well, let's just like lean into it, I guess. And so then they have him die during one episode and then change his face into another doctor for the first time.

SPEAKER_01

I do wish we were recording this one remotely so that we could have a close-up of Holly's face. That's true, yeah. She just can't even believe that she's like, You're doing a lot.

SPEAKER_00

You're being very brave, Ruby.

SPEAKER_01

No, I'm I'm happy to never she would never watch this.

SPEAKER_02

No, I would never watch it. I won't even consider it, if I'm honest. Um, love you though. But I'm like, as you're describing this to me, I'm just I'm sort of thinking back to all the times when I was a hairstylist and my clients were forced to listen to me talk about Love Island. Which like Is that how it feels right now? No, I don't feel like I'm being forced. I'm like, I asked, so I'm I'm happy to listen. And I'm sure my my clients who asked were also happy to listen. But I'm just like, yeah, uh the way you're just sort of info dumping about this to on like a almost, dare I say, like an academic level. It's an encyclopedic knowledge. It is an encyclopedic knowledge that's a good idea. Encyclopedic knowledge. That's true.

SPEAKER_00

I could talk to you about season six B. If you really want.

SPEAKER_02

Right. And that's how I can talk about Love Island UK. Like it actually is like an encyclopedic knowledge to where when I start, I can't really stop.

SPEAKER_00

Kind of. And that's what I'm feeling right now. So I'm going to pump the brakes.

SPEAKER_02

No, you don't. I don't want I've already been monopolizing this app already, anyway. Safe in this room. Yes, that's right. Um that sounds right up your alley.

SPEAKER_00

You're being so supportive by my life.

SPEAKER_02

No, no, I mean that. Like I'm I love that you did it. I know. Yeah.

SPEAKER_00

I'm just sort of like, I know.

SPEAKER_02

I don't think I could repeat back anything you just said to me.

SPEAKER_00

That's okay.

SPEAKER_02

Besides the portal, like Bob uh telephone police box.

SPEAKER_00

So yeah, that's that's the current what's happening with me and Doctor Who.

SPEAKER_02

Love it.

SPEAKER_00

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02

Little bit.

SPEAKER_00

I'm kind of sad to see it go, but I'm also some of the best books for Doctor Who came out in the 90s. Not that I've read them.

SPEAKER_02

So it's a book series as well.

SPEAKER_00

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02

Was it a book series first or a TV series first? TV series first. Okay, okay.

SPEAKER_01

Is Doctor Who are Doctor Who books written the way Star Wars books are written?

SPEAKER_00

Kind of, but like the Star Wars books are written more with like trilogies in mind. So you have like chunks of stories that kind of go together.

SPEAKER_01

But like what I'm saying is like, are they written? I know Holly doesn't know this, but like Star Wars came out, and then there's like I'm really not that big of a Star Wars fan, but basically, like if you're a fan and you're a writer, you can just write. I don't think this is true anymore that now that Disney owns it, but like there are many, many Star Wars books that basically like can't all be considered canon for the show or the movie. There's like probably like well over a hundred Star Wars books that are just sort of like people wrote them, but it they are considered part of the universe. Like they're they're put out by the Star Wars, like like Lucas, George Lucas's company, but it was like it's not by George Lucas, like it's not just like attached to it.

SPEAKER_00

No, right.

SPEAKER_01

Is that kind of how Doctor Who is? Right, because you said you wanted to write a Doctor Who.

SPEAKER_00

Yeah, it basically is like you know like all the gaps in the stories of like, you know, sometimes there's one adventure. Yeah, filling in the blanks of like maybe there's one adventure where it like fades to black and then the next episode they're on a completely different planet. Well, what happened between those two moments? You know, someone will write a story about that.

SPEAKER_01

Well, it lends itself really well to this kind of fandom because it's just fanfiction, essentially.

SPEAKER_00

It is essentially fanfic.

SPEAKER_01

But like with parameters.

SPEAKER_00

Correct. Yep.

SPEAKER_01

Like I don't think Doctor Who books are sucking and fucking in the way that fandom fiction is.

SPEAKER_00

No, they aren't, no. Yeah. Which maybe I don't know, maybe I mean definitely the Matt Smith era. I think there's a lot of suckin' and fucking.

SPEAKER_01

So unfortunately, I only find Matt Smith attractive when he's like disgusting in the Game of Thrones. Um then I'm like sexy. Sexy. He's oh, he's fucking his niece.

SPEAKER_02

I don't know who Matt Smith is.

SPEAKER_01

You would recognize he was in um The Crown? He was in the Crown. He was in uh last last night in Soho. That's maybe not the right title with Anya Taylor Joy. I didn't watch that. Okay, well he was in that. I thought that was a good one. She's watching Game of Thrones.

SPEAKER_00

You famously love dragons.

SPEAKER_02

There is an episode title called If There's Dragons, I'm not fucking reading it.

SPEAKER_00

It's true, yeah.

SPEAKER_01

Or watching it. You've absolutely seen Matt Smith before. Yeah. He's like quite a famous actor. I was gonna say he's in Venom. Holly certainly hasn't seen Matt Smith. Is he in Venom or is he not in Venom? He's in um Mobius.

SPEAKER_00

Mobius, Morbius. Morbius.

SPEAKER_01

I was like, the film nobody likes.

SPEAKER_00

Exactly.

SPEAKER_01

Yeah. That one is it's Marvel. Yeah. Random's seen it.

SPEAKER_02

That's ultimately my my okay, yeah. Yeah. He's got a weird face.

SPEAKER_00

Yeah, and that's him in his Doctor Who era.

SPEAKER_02

He does he has the opposite of an iPhone face.

SPEAKER_01

Yes, that's why I get I think he's kind of sexy sometimes. Right. He could haunt me.

SPEAKER_02

Yeah. Um well Melissa and I really sort of dominated at trivia at a cabin.

SPEAKER_04

Oh, yes.

SPEAKER_02

It was very pop culture adjacent. And happy birthday, Josh. Happy birthday. And I will say that anything dragon or sci-fi, anything sci-fi or fantasy related within pop culture is my blind spot. Yeah.

SPEAKER_00

And that's okay.

SPEAKER_02

Don't know who any of the well besides Emma Darcy, I know that their character is. Uh can you pull it out again? Uh you did it once. Is it Ranera Ranera Targaryen? Yeah. Well, and I think it's just because I see that name written out constantly. It's a weird name. It is, yeah. Ranera. Did I say Ranera? Marinera? Marinera Targaryen. Marinera Targaryen. Yes. Marinera. Marinera Targaryen. Yes! Beautiful name for my firstborn daughter. Marinera Targaryen. Marinera Targaryen.

SPEAKER_00

Carlton's children's names? Are you kidding me?

SPEAKER_02

I don't remember her name.

SPEAKER_00

Destiny, mystery with an eye. Cross. Cross?

SPEAKER_02

Cross. I'm just addicted to Carlton. She's amazing. Very thin, ripped body with her ginormous breast implants.

SPEAKER_01

For the listener, Carlton is um a one-season wonder of Real Hospital with Beverly Hills. And she made an impact. She made an impact. She made like a fanist. Yes. In a funny way.

SPEAKER_00

Well she's a Wiccan, yeah. Yeah, she's a Wiccan. Very different.

SPEAKER_02

Sorry. She's a Wiccan. She's easily offended. She's got a lot of strong opinions, and she has a sex dungeon in her mansion.

SPEAKER_00

And I'm pretty sure she's into women.

SPEAKER_01

Probably says that she, I think she says she's bi at one point. Oh, does she? She just says that the woman like her, there's she don't see gender.

SPEAKER_00

No, she doesn't like the I love women.

SPEAKER_01

Yeah, she's the woman equivalent of a whole as a whole. Yeah.

SPEAKER_00

Yeah, you're right. Yeah.

SPEAKER_02

But in like a kind of like a tantric sort of kinky way. In a rope way.

SPEAKER_00

Yeah. Yeah. And she lives in like a gothic castle house. Small castle house.

SPEAKER_02

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00

I love that for her.

SPEAKER_02

Yeah, she's incredible. She is. I love her. We'll put her best moments in the carousel, don't worry.

SPEAKER_00

She should have been on top of the case. She should have. She should have.

SPEAKER_02

But Josh isn't really a Bravo gay, is he? No, I don't think so.

SPEAKER_01

I mean, I think he's seen some of it due to the culture.

SPEAKER_02

Well, yeah, of course.

SPEAKER_01

Well, actually, no, I don't know. I feel like he's seen some of it due to the culture, so he might.

SPEAKER_00

Do you think he would be a bravo Bravo gay? I feel like he would be.

SPEAKER_01

I don't know. He really likes Josh is really weird. Um, I'm just gonna start shitting on Josh.

SPEAKER_02

This podcast is where we talk shit about every single one of our friends.

SPEAKER_01

Oh, also we said we shout out Megan. Megan, if you're listening. Yeah. If you're listening and you're walking or not walking or whatever. Love you. Mamas.

SPEAKER_02

You know, one of my first memories or really interactions with Josh is when your parents were out of town when we were like 19. I think it was like the first summer. Yeah, you had that party. And me, you, Josh, and I don't even remember who else were playing Monopoly. And I remember he was like, he said something. He was like, honey, all I need is a cat in my lap and a margarita in my hand. That's exactly who Josh is as a person. That's exactly who Josh is. Cat in my lap and a margarita in my hand. I remember that.

SPEAKER_01

Yeah, and I thought It might have been Nick that we were playing with. I don't remember. Maybe. I don't know if you were there that night, actually.

SPEAKER_02

I don't think so. No, you were because that's that's when that's famously when you said, Did you go to That's right? Yeah, you sort of introduced yourself to me. I did, yeah. Yeah. Well, it's kind of funny because it's like this this sort of high school friend group of ours, is it's funny because it's like none of you were my friends in high school. Even though we went to high school together, I had a very separate experience from all of you. Oh, yeah. So it's funny because it's like I don't even know how to describe this group. To people, I'm like, it's my high school friends, but also not. Yeah, because I know you we went to high school together, but I was not really close to any of you until high school. Yes, completely separate.

SPEAKER_01

And then ours started to fuse in senior year. Yes.

SPEAKER_04

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02

And then, yeah, spring of senior year, due to one direction, is when me, Raylan, and Melissa really kicked off because we were friends on Twitter. That's right. And Melissa and I famously, what really what really bonded us is um talking shit about this rich girl who went to her we can bleep this.

unknown

Okay.

SPEAKER_02

How on her like grad party um invite on Facebook, it was like, if it's nice out, we can open the tennis courts or something crazy like that. And Melissa and I like I remember we I don't even remember how, but I remember we like legit. Yeah, we were we were gossiping. And then two, well, I think really what first kicked it off is that we sat next to each other in the computer lab for the Life After High School project. Oh yeah, yeah, but we kind of were like looking at each other's diva recognized diva. That's right, and then we were like friends on Twitter, and then One Direction happened, and so that sort of that was serious. We were in the DMs, and then it was party invite where she invited the whole senior class, of course, to come to her mansion and open the tennis court so it gets nice out.

SPEAKER_01

No, she was like dating. This is such a funny thing about our school is that we had like 600 so many people in graduating class. Yeah. So it's like there's plenty of times where people are talking about people from high school. I'm like, I don't know who that is. Right.

SPEAKER_00

I remember there was somebody that was sitting in the row as me during graduation. I was like, I have never seen you before.

SPEAKER_02

I think you might recognize her. They're very like prom king and group pies. They're like popular. Which something that really fascinates me is like how are like social hierarchies defined in like middle school? Because I remember like there being popular kids in elementary school. Yes. And like, why were they the chosen ones? Thing is, it's like it's almost like they're like assigned that title in like fourth grade and then it just stays that way until graduation.

unknown

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02

Because I'm like the people who are like the popular cool girls from like my elementary school were also popular in high school. Same. So like why are they the chosen ones? Is it because they're sometimes they're like rich?

SPEAKER_01

I think that there's some aspect of wealth, and then they're usually very beautiful, I feel like, from childhood. Yeah.

SPEAKER_02

Right, be due to the wealth, and having probably a stay-at-home mom who can like make them look really cute for school every day, or like a power mom.

SPEAKER_01

Yeah, oh, a very involved. One person I'm thinking about, and I think her mom was a lawyer, and it was kind of the girl boss vacation. That's what I was like gathering as like a woke mom. It's like a it's like a it's like a rich, unwoke mom who's right putting her daughter together, or a woke mom who's putting her daughter together. But a mom is crafting something there, yeah.

SPEAKER_00

Yeah, it's intentional, right?

SPEAKER_01

Huge.

SPEAKER_02

Yeah. Well, and here's the thing, I do feel like popular people in grade school come from like a lineage of popular people. Like I feel like often. Right. Often they're like older siblings and even parents were popular in high school. So it is like a yeah, it's like a lineage.

SPEAKER_01

Do you feel like either of because I didn't have, I mean, I have older brothers, but they're much older than me and they didn't go to our high school. Do you either of you feel like your siblings who went to school before you like had any impact on your like people were like, oh, I know your sibling?

SPEAKER_02

Not really. We had very separate kind of identities in grade school. Cause there's a 12-year gap between me and my oldest sibling. Yeah. Yeah. Um light work. Yeah, it's like 12 12 years, 11 years, 9 years, 3 years. Yeah. Okay. Yeah. Um but no, not not not.

SPEAKER_00

I was gonna say that was like that was similar for me too. Like a lot of the teachers, like Kirsten. Yeah, Kirsten was sport and academics. Yeah. So like a lot of the teachers.

SPEAKER_01

But like I see Kirsten in Kirsten, when I picture her in my mind, I picture her in a hockey uniform. Kurak. Yeah, and that's what and that's what I was gonna say like, like when I saw her at your mom's funeral, I'm like, Maren's in a hockey uniform.

SPEAKER_00

Yeah, I'd be like, What do you mean? Put your skates on. Wow. But basically, yeah, and this is what's so interesting, is because I was not involved in like the same spheres that Kirsten was, it like minimally her popularity minimally impacted mine. Like it still was like teachers knew of Kirsten. You know, Kirsten did play bands. She was popular, right? She was popular-ish, yeah, I think so. Higher on the rung than I was. Yeah. Um, but when Brita, my younger sister, started doing sports, they were always like, Oh, you're Kirsten's younger sister. And so I'm sure Brita had a lot of that because she had to contend with. They were in the same academics, good at academics, smart, good at sports. Interesting.

SPEAKER_01

What was do you remember your first impression of me? Why this bitch in love with me? I don't.

SPEAKER_00

I don't remember. Oh, I don't remember her first impressions. I don't even remember where we first met. It was probably in class.

SPEAKER_01

I think we met in band, like in seventh grade, like probably first day.

SPEAKER_00

Probably.

SPEAKER_01

I'm trying to remember my first impression of you, but I can't quite remember exactly how we met.

SPEAKER_00

Because I did feel like we started becoming friends like kind of slowly, but it was like by the end of like that first semester.

SPEAKER_01

It was by the end of the first semester. It was like it was uh it was kind of the John Green, the John Green quote, right? Like slowly and then all at once. It was like we were kind of friends, and then all of a sudden we were inseparable.

SPEAKER_00

Well, it was like one moment I forget when it was, but there was like when we started hanging out at your place after school.

SPEAKER_01

Yeah, I think it was because then I think we like we started wanting to make skits, and then it was like we're never a part.

SPEAKER_00

Exactly. Yeah, it was like, oh, we're constantly creating, and like it was so much fun. And then yeah, I started getting nervous that you had a crush on me because I was like, Yeah. Cause I was and I was like, I don't know what the fuck to do. I'm not ready to come out. Like I and of course, yeah.

SPEAKER_01

I remember telling you that I liked you because I was with Anna at the mall, which is like so junior high girl. Oh low. You were like telling my cra We were sitting on the city.

SPEAKER_02

You probably both had like large um caramel coolers in your hands, also probably wearing a gaucho for sure.

SPEAKER_01

Yeah, um, yeah. Anna and I were sitting at a bench from the mall at the mall, and I texted you on a flip phone, T9 style. Of course. And you were like, What did it say? I think you were just like, I I can't I'm trying to. He said I'm Jay. I'm Jay. I think you were just like, uh, I think you responded like, I like you a lot as a friend.

SPEAKER_00

That sounds like a baby. I don't know. Literally Anna.

SPEAKER_01

Because I remember crying at Burnsomal. He nuked your eyes to me. And Anna just being like, damn. Poor Anna. Oh my gosh. Being such a good friend. Yeah. But yeah, I'm like, I was trying to remember what my first impression of you was, which I'm sure it was just like he's so cute.

SPEAKER_00

I know.

SPEAKER_01

You were also like really what you had going for you a lot was that you were the only one who had grown. So you just towered over all the other things. I did.

SPEAKER_00

I really did. Nick, were you were you one of I was a man?

SPEAKER_02

Were you one of those tweens that had like a deep voice in like sixth grade?

SPEAKER_00

I think I was. Yeah. Yeah, I did.

SPEAKER_01

Like, yeah, I I went through puberty before I met him. No, I did, yeah.

SPEAKER_02

I was like, I get the sense that you were like the sixth grader with a man's voice. Yeah, I was.

SPEAKER_01

And you also had your braces off by the time we got to be perfectly beautiful, straight teeth. I didn't know. So you were you were a man.

SPEAKER_00

I was a man.

SPEAKER_01

I was the rest of the guys were guys, little boys. They're just little boys. You were a man amongst boys.

SPEAKER_00

That's true, yeah.

SPEAKER_01

Yeah, but I think I I don't really remember my first impression of you. I just remember we started hanging out and then it was like we're together all the time. Exactly.

SPEAKER_00

It's yeah, it did feel like it was like all at once. Yeah. Yep. Yeah.

SPEAKER_01

Yeah. How would you describe yourself to somebody? Like if I, if you were not you and you were describing yourself to somebody, like, oh, my friend Nick. Um I don't know.

SPEAKER_00

And that's the thing, is I don't know.

SPEAKER_01

Okay, well, answer me.

SPEAKER_00

Wow. Let's all describe ourselves even for 20 years. I do think I'm thoughtful, but I also think I'm chaotic. And I feel like I'm kind of impulsive sometimes. But like generally a goofball that really likes to have a good time.

SPEAKER_01

Thoughtful, chaotic, impulsive goofball. Yeah.

SPEAKER_00

So good. But now I'm trying to think I don't know if you're chaotic.

SPEAKER_02

I'm trying to process like I would agree with that. I don't I wouldn't describe you as chaotic. Oh I feel like you might just upstairs I am. Right. I feel like you might experience a lot of yeah, internal chaos, but externally you you read as like quite stable. Yeah. Oh, yeah. That's good. That's good. I agree with. Well, here's here's something huge. And this is a descriptor that only other people can give. You're it because if you give it to yourself, you're a fucking psychopath. I think that's I would describe you, Nick, as an empath. I would. Really? Oh, yeah, that is something you really cannot say about yourself.

SPEAKER_00

Yeah, no, that's true.

SPEAKER_02

Everyone I've ever met who self-describes as an empath is like the worst person I've ever met. The most selfish narcissistic person on planet Earth. Yeah. They love describing themselves as an empath.

SPEAKER_00

That's true.

SPEAKER_02

Um, but I you do actually, I really would describe that empath. Okay, cool.

SPEAKER_00

Thank you.

SPEAKER_02

You are like incredibly empathetic.

SPEAKER_00

Yeah. I think I do match people's people's energies pretty well.

SPEAKER_01

Well, I think this is gonna make your what's gonna make you a good therapist. I agree. Yeah, I think so too. Yeah, I agree. Holly, how would you describe yourself to somebody?

SPEAKER_02

I would just describe myself as I would say are we doing how many adjectives are we doing? Three as you want. I would say connected what, five connected five. I would say creative, yeah, funny, yeah, um, opinionated, yeah, and I don't know. I'll stick with those three.

SPEAKER_01

Creative, funny, opinionated. I feel like there's something we're missing about.

SPEAKER_02

I was gonna I was gonna say judgmental, but I think that could fall understanding.

SPEAKER_00

I think you're opinionated, but not judgment. Agreed. I think you like observe things, but I'm trying to be like you're very observant.

SPEAKER_02

That's funny. I don't think I'm observant enough. You're very observant. Really?

SPEAKER_00

No, I think you pick up on stuff more than yeah. That's my impression.

SPEAKER_01

I think you're more observant than most people I know. I would agree.

SPEAKER_00

Wow.

SPEAKER_01

Crazy. I think that's you and Maya are both observers.

SPEAKER_00

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02

I guess I just I uh probably due to having a low self-esteem, I kind of just think of myself as this like out of control, like histrionic, narcissistic, crazy, like I make everything about myself crash out type of person. Which maybe I am internally. I think we're all like chaotic, but it's internal. But yeah, okay. Well, and also what did I say? I would describe myself as judgmental. I think I've said this to you before, where I do think I am very judgmental and I'm also extremely accepting. So I'll judge you, I'll have an opinion on what you're doing. Might not agree with it, but I still accept you for who you are.

SPEAKER_00

Yeah, it's true. I mean, and that's exactly how I within recent. But that's the thing is like unless you're Then Holly has some questions.

SPEAKER_01

That's right, yeah.

SPEAKER_00

That's what I was gonna say. Like, I felt so open to talk about Doctor Who, even though I know you're you're gonna be like the fucking thing.

SPEAKER_02

No, I'm like, that sounds like the worst thing I've ever heard, but I'm so happy for you. Exactly. Yeah, I'm so happy for you.

unknown

Exactly.

SPEAKER_02

So you okay, so what did we land on? Creative, funny, opinionated, observant. And observant, yeah.

SPEAKER_01

I would say I like I I don't know, you might hate this, but playful. I feel like you have a very playful energy.

SPEAKER_00

I would agree with that too.

SPEAKER_01

I guess I would consider it. Which I think that's kind of part of funny, but I think outside of you being very funny, like you're the funniest person I know. Thanks. But like outside of you being very funny, I think you have a very like playful energy.

SPEAKER_02

Well, that's the Sagittarius in me, huh? That's right. Honey, honey. Yeah. You know what? You're right. You're right.

SPEAKER_01

Because I'm like, there's a part of your personality that's not just the funny that's sort of like boop, boop, boop, boop, boop, boop, boop, boom.

SPEAKER_02

Yeah. Yeah. I'm a little goofy. Yeah, you're a little, I think you're both. I'm a little silly. I'm a little silly. Silly, Willie.

unknown

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00

Your turn. Your turn. What about you, Molly?

SPEAKER_02

Your turn, Melissa. Tortured. Melissa, guys.

SPEAKER_01

Tortured, tortured, um, mentally ill. Positives only. Positives only. I generally think like it's very difficult for me to come up with this because I I do find myself really like uh how people perceive me is very different to my internal, like, not just the mental illness of it all, but like people who perceive me who don't know my mental illness really have no fucking clue, and that's so crazy to me because like for me, it's it's in here all the time, and so I'm like, that's insane to me.

SPEAKER_02

You do come across as someone who is like incredibly stable, so incredibly stable and like put together, which in many ways you are.

SPEAKER_01

You are outwardly, and and and it's hell and higher. It's hell and higher, yeah. And I want to come back to this in a second because I was talking to Rachel about Holly sent a question in the group chat listener that was asking, um, do you think curiosity is an emotion? And so No, I think Nick asked that. Oh, yeah. I thought it was Holly that asked that.

SPEAKER_00

So because you had an awesome response to it. That's why you remember.

SPEAKER_01

I think I lived your responses when I was talking to Rachel. Sorry, Rachel. Surprise. Surprise, girl. I do think curiosity is an emotion, but I think I'm a curious person. I think that's like my overarching, my overarching trait, maybe. Um I agree.

SPEAKER_00

I would, yeah.

SPEAKER_01

I don't know.

SPEAKER_00

No, I agree.

SPEAKER_01

That's all I can come up with because that's like a recency effect of me talking to Rachel a couple days ago. I talked to her on Friday. I'm like curious.

SPEAKER_02

Gun gun to your head.

SPEAKER_01

Gun to my head. Curious. I'm gonna say something, but it's like I don't want to say it because I'm like it. I feel like it's kind of the empath thing. I do try to be very kind to people. I don't know if that actually works out, but I do try to be a kind person.

SPEAKER_00

I think you're considerate. I do think you're very considerate. Yeah.

SPEAKER_01

Curious, considerate Cunty. Cunty. Um I think I can be funny.

SPEAKER_00

Yes.

SPEAKER_01

I think I can.

SPEAKER_02

could be funny i would say i would say i also agree with funny those are my three i can come up with excellent am i missing some anything is that how you describe me i don't know if i if i were to describe you but i would say loser um ugly fat i i would say i would say well i think the the the one that you missed which surprised me stylish oh yeah that's a big one yep yeah stylish try trendy stylish not trendy not trendy i would describe you said trendy i said no you said fuck you no trendy is a slur slur in this household trendy is a slur sorry i would i would describe you as stylish and this could fall under the considerate umbrella but thoughtful yeah very thoughtful intelligent you are you say that bitch you're about to go to do PhD program yeah literally what the fuck I know so shut the hell upon two intelligent girls so uh I honey I went to hair school I know honey I went to hair school I know you're about to go do a PhD program and you could too so you are smart you are smart smart as hell I think stylish and intelligent are both things that I'd like to be but I don't really feel like those are the things I'm trying to portray outwardly but it doesn't feel like I succeeded those and so honey you have that's right congratulations thanks yeah congratulations yeah I would what what were the others I said stylish intelligent thoughtful and um what were the others you said you said considerate funny curious curious yes yes curious was a big one for me though I was like if you weren't gonna say that that was gonna be one yeah because curious friendly funny you're great at asking questions I love to ask questions I think you're really compassionate too nice but that but uh that I feel like that all falls under the thoughtful umbrella I would agree yeah but yeah you are very thoughtful I think um I think it's interesting because I feel like uh one of the things that's weird is that I think you two both know me I mean I think it's like the whole I have four best friends and all of them know me very well.

SPEAKER_01

But I think like you two both know me very well but I think you two both know me deeply in different ways. I agree. Which is like a kind of a funny kind of a funny thing. Like I think that Holly like I think Holly I I don't want to say she knows me better than anybody else but like I think that Holly only unders Holly is the only other person who can understand like in here. The mental prison the mental prison yeah because we have similar mental prisons.

SPEAKER_02

Yeah we do yeah I can I can empathize versus sympathizing.

SPEAKER_01

Exactly yeah and then Nick has known me for so long and has seen me through so many seasons of yeah you and Nick were girls together and so like that kind there's there's like a there's like a trust in a knowing you and Nick were young girls together you and I were older girls together yeah I don't know but I want to come back to the curiosity thing. Yeah so apparently Nick asked this question.

SPEAKER_00

Yeah I didn't bring it back bring it back so the question I asked was like is curiosity an emotion because there's sometimes I think of it as like like a trait or something that you do like an act of like being curious.

SPEAKER_02

But then is that what I said is that curiosity I think is I think it's an action I don't remember curios I think I said curiosity is I think I said it's like more of an a it's an emotion that that requires action.

SPEAKER_00

Yeah but it was something you said that it was yes it's an emotion and it's like something else.

SPEAKER_01

I think I said it's an action yeah we were talking about curiosity and we were just sort of saying like some people are curious and act on it and others don't and I think that really like I think I'm always acting and always coming from a place of curiosity. You are and ultimately I said this to Rich too that's what science is yeah is like Yeah you have to be really curious to do five years of work and research on one thing otherwise like you're gonna you're gonna get bored and burn out. You have to be curious.

SPEAKER_00

This just got are you done I have something I it just hit me. I know it's something just came to my mind we're digressing holy shit so thinking about curiosity made me think about how lately I've been trying to be honest about my curiosity as well. So saying like especially when it comes to looking up words there's like reading Sinclair Lewis I was like I'm not just gonna guess it does so when I'm like when I'm looking and like I see a new word I'm not just gonna guess what it means based on context like I'm gonna go look it up I'm gonna spend the time to it but I don't know how but my algorithm has got me locked into a conversation that's been happening online lately about ableism I thought you meant an actual like two people going at it on Instagram. It's like I've seen different reels come through about this but basically talking about the ableism of vocabulary I hate this argument. I yeah so basically the argument is that like if you are using too many fancy words that's like ableist I hate this argument so much. I do too and the more I see it I'm like this doesn't make sense to me but I was like I want to hear what Holly thinks of it.

SPEAKER_02

I think I think it probably falls under under like the anti-intellectualism umbrella of like you know it's funny they were talking about this on Celebrity Memoir Book Club on I think it was on the Patreon. But they were talking about how there was an essay that came out about like the literary crisis and and whatnot. Now I'm just really digressing but it was like one of the the hosts was saying that like yeah I think by the time you're in like an academic setting in college your favorite book series shouldn't be like uh I can't remember what she said.

SPEAKER_00

Um Harry Potter The Hunger Games or Lemony Snicket Captain Underpants no Percy Jackson?

SPEAKER_02

Yes Percy Jackson yeah yeah it was like I don't think that should be that was a real knowing I was it was like I don't think that should be your favorite book series by the time you're in like an academic setting like I think you know not ever I think people should read for pleasure and whatever but I like it also is good to read and do things that challenge you. And I feel similarly with like vocabulary and that kind of thing is like I don't think I don't know I think it depends on who you're talking to the context you're talking to them in but I don't think that like I think saying that someone who has like a very good expansive vocabulary is like ableist I think that's really crazy. That's a really crazy reach and it's just is like because you're then almost implying that like someone who doesn't have as good of a vocabulary does it as good of a vocabulary is disabled in some ways. Correct or that disabled people are not capable of having like a highly expansive vocab like it's just I don't know it's a flop reach argument that I think is just probably only exists in like chronically online spaces.

SPEAKER_01

Yeah you know it reminds me of the NanoRIMO stuff from what a year ago two years ago? What was that? NanoRimo is National November writing month which is now dead um it's dead now. Oh did you miss this? This was crazy it might have been when you were in Finland. So NanoRimo is a thing that's been going on for about 20 years. Like a long time you try to write a book in a month you try to write 8000 words in a month and it's just basically like get up and write like that's kind of the goal of it right so lots of people do it.

SPEAKER_00

I did it in high school yeah I did it in college yeah finished a whole book you actually finish it or I finished it yeah I finished it and it's a garbage book because I do remember you two like posting and like talking about things.

SPEAKER_01

Yeah I think we do it's like a fun thing and it's like even if you and then if you do finish it usually you can like I'm like go do it girls code if you do finish it I think NanoMarmo has they've had historical sponsors where you can get like cheaper writing software and I think if you finish it you can print one copy of it for free. And like there's just like a bunch of things. They always have like corporate sponsors that are all like literary corporate sponsors but sponsor two years ago I think it was their sponsors were like Chat GPT and they were like you have access to generative AI so you can write faster and the whole community of NanoRIMO was like what the fuck is this? Do you think it's a group of a bunch of people who want to be writers want to use generative AI? Absolutely not and NanoRimo came out with a statement that was like this is this is to support the disability community so this is an access issue. We want more people to be able to write and then disabled people were like you think we can't write without chat GPT right like writing is like one of the most accessible things actually for people who have like physical disabilities and other things. Yeah you really just need you just need to have that thought and there's many ways to get it down. And like it was just they were basically like it's an access issue and everybody was like no it's not everybody has access to their brain and then Orimo basically died after that. Yeah things should be accessible but just because you don't understand something or just because I think this is the issue with Instagram right now. Yeah just because something's hard does not mean it's bad. Yeah right like I there is nothing that I know that somebody could not teach themselves by Googling. Right. Like there is nothing that I know that you couldn't teach yourself by going on Wikipedia.com by picking up a book.

SPEAKER_00

Like I've knowledge is so accessible that it's like kind of crazy to pretend that it's not yeah and yeah it really frustrates all the anti-intellectual arguments frustrate me because I'm like hey many of us just pick up a book hey there was um this is turning out to be very important but there was a uh a book that won a prize in 1964 was this Sinclair Lewis no he was dead by then he was dead in Italy I know classic basically uh it I I forget which award it was but it was called Anti-Intellectualism in American life wow and this book outlines I've seen a lot of people talk about because this book basically outlines the history of America and how it has never been about intellectual behavior. And of course capitalism so capitalism and it does outline that in the book and I don't agree with everything that's in the book but it basically outlined in a very very interesting way of you don't cosign everything from the 60s?

SPEAKER_01

What do you mean?

SPEAKER_00

Yeah homosexuality is a mental diagnosis so yeah yeah it's a sin that too but basically this book is about like it's it's exploring how America is basically founded on anti-intellectualism and that hasn't really changed. Yeah I think it's an excellent book and especially in line with all the stuff that's happening right now I think it's a book that people Americans especially should at least peruse.

SPEAKER_01

Here's one thing about me is I really think I don't think anybody is dumb unless they are actively avoiding information. And that's when I call someone dumb. Right because I think that like I don't think people are just dumb. I think like I mean dumb is also kind of a slur. But like but I don't I don't think people are stupid like I don't think people are just like born stupid and can't learn things. I think people have to actively sort of I mean it's sort of it's sort of if we want to take it to a place of Real House is Rhode Island it's sort of rula saying please show me the evidence and basically wearing a blindfold. Somebody shows her a video of her husband cheating on her and she's like That's a if only somebody could bring me evidence of this that's when I can call somebody stupid.

SPEAKER_02

Like you're being dumb as fuck.

SPEAKER_01

But if somebody doesn't know something I just press a button I got scared um if somebody doesn't know something we're all triggered um then I don't think that's stupid. I think that's just like okay then you can learn something. And I actually think that's that's my going back to my curiosity point and I'm like that's actually the thing I love most is when I don't know something and I have the opportunity to learn something new.

SPEAKER_02

Well I was just about to say I think like being dumb in a modern sense is just like a lack of curiosity. Yep. Yeah yeah yeah having information in front of you and not being curious enough to like look into it. Or or just being ignorant to it. Yes choosing not to look at it. Yeah choosing actively choosing to not to not be curious ultimately is what it is.

SPEAKER_01

When somebody says they're dumb about politics I'm like actually is the right way to say that yeah yeah on profiles not political and like come on in the year of our Lord what?

SPEAKER_02

No come on when I'm on hinge and I see not political or moderate I say we're not no not even not messing with that.

SPEAKER_00

No way. Well well do we have confession Oh this does kind of go back to like the nano rhymo of it all I don't know why I wrote this down but it says um having self-publishing is really really great but if I find out that it's a if a book is self-published I already hate it and I don't want to read it. Why so what happens I struggle with that because the the way self-publishing is great it has it provides a lot of access to people who like aren't able to go through the traditional publishing process which is awesome and I love that people are able to like publish their personal memoirs or like a family catalog of stuff. You know like people can still get physical copies of stuff that's important to them. That's great. But the publishing industry exists the way it does so there are so many people reviewing a book before it even goes to publish like before it even goes to print. Yeah. And so there are already like literary agents the first round of editors you know you have marketing people you have people who read the first galleys you have um you know all sorts of news outlets that are reading it and reviewing it. Like there's already so many groups of people that are like confirming or like basically trying to advertise that this book is worth like picking up and self-publishing doesn't have that like guarantee. You can't guarantee that you look at a self-published book and it's gonna be good. Now there's a lot of exceptions and I do have to make this known that there's a lot of exceptions of people who self-publish books and then later on get them published by like bigger publishing houses because people eventually read those books and are like Colleen Hoover there's a popular uh dungeon crawler book Dave the Dungeon Crawler something something basically same thing self-published and then people were now people are loving it and now it's in print through like a regular publisher. But yeah if it's like self-published and it's not actually like through a traditional publisher I am like very very skeptical. And I guess maybe I wouldn't say I mean I did say I hate it already. I don't think that's true.

SPEAKER_02

I think I just would You don't respect it.

SPEAKER_00

I don't respect it.

SPEAKER_02

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00

And I could respect it like if there is like a readership that does eventually gain traction like Colleen Hoover. But like Yeah I'm very skeptical.

SPEAKER_01

Well I think like some self-published authors get really into it and they they just don't want to go the traditional route and so they do get beta readers they get editors they do all of those things something but there are lots of people which like if I just wrote 8000 words right now and put it on Amazon I could do that and like somebody needs to edit that shit. Yeah not every first thought is a good thought.

SPEAKER_00

Yeah and also yeah and I'm realizing too that I'm looking at those books as if they're first drafts.

SPEAKER_01

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00

And a lot of times they are but a lot of times they're not yeah and I think that's where it comes from my distaste for it because I'm like there could be so much work that's done on this. Yeah and I'll and I'll just wait until the work is done on it.

SPEAKER_01

My confession is a little bit of a question. Oh yeah oh I can't wait it's gonna be nothing. Yeah. So I was listening to the Slater album today and in it she notes that she would like her weed sticky and I'm wondering what does that mean? My confession is I don't know why you want your weed sticky is it like the the little like the like oil part of it? The like oil things or is that like a slang term? No well I mean why why does why does Slater My question in confession is why does Slater want weed sticky?

SPEAKER_02

Here's my answer that I I don't know if it's right but I think it's right and we'll fact check. I don't smoke flour but I believe like fresh flour and flour being the actual marijuana buds. Yes. I believe there is like a a sticky waxy residue on it when it's like really fresh.

SPEAKER_01

The the resin?

SPEAKER_02

Yeah the resin which is essentially what like carts and stuff are made out of sometimes that is like on the flour I believe. Yeah. And so yeah if it's like sticky then it's probably really good weed.

SPEAKER_01

It's probably good fresh let's let's fact check that seems like it'd be good yeah Jared said he thought that it was like like steezy. Like he thought it was like well that's wrong I can tell you that like like sticky just like good. Yeah.

SPEAKER_00

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01

What do you think then?

SPEAKER_00

Well no I was thinking maybe is it in this like it's sticky because it hangs around like the high hangs around for much longer. But I don't think that's right.

SPEAKER_02

I think it's true but I do like that I like that idea too I might start using that text sticky weed refers to fresh high quality flour that is tacky or resinous to the touch. Nice great yeah the stickiness comes from microscopic glands called trichomes. These glands produce the plant's essential oils including cannabinoids like THD and CBD and terpenes. Because cannabinoids reside in these cannabinoid is so fun to say cannabinoids cannabinoid cannabinoid love the cannabinoids cannabinoid because cannabinoids reside in these glands sticky weed generally indicates higher potency better flavor and fresher curing is that where that one sound that's sticky is that that was really off key.

SPEAKER_01

But I know I know what I'm talking about.

SPEAKER_02

Maybe I don't know I'm like damn reviewing sticky in a new light wow sticky dick sticky I played that in a quiplash one time which I don't even remember what the like I don't remember what the prompt was either my answer was dick sticky question mark and then a and then a sideways face my confession is that I fear that I have accidentally started doing this bit where I'm like a Republican and my my confession is that I fear that people don't know whether or not it's a bit so like yesterday for example we um our friend of the pod Jess had people over for 4th of July and um as we were leaving I was like all right patriots like I'm out and then I'm leaving and Jillian's husband says Holly turn around he goes you turn it on Fox News when you get home I said you bet I am I said you bet I am and I said by the way put up my fist I said we are Charlie Kirk and they laughed and I walked out but there were some of like Jess's friends there who I who didn't know me and they kind of were like laughing nervously and so I do feel like I've sort of taken this bit far which if you know me you know that it's a bit because I would describe myself as like incredibly left leaning a leftist dare I say so now I'm sort of I've almost like dug this hole in a way where I just am often joking as if I'm a Republican even though I'm like it's it's funny because I'm so not that's hilarious. That's the joke. That's the joke. The joke is that like I'm the friend who's too woke and I'm often being a Republican. Yeah do for the for the pod listeners not a Republican but I do love to sort of make jokes and like carry out this bit that I am um for some reason I don't it's I I started and now I can't stop. Yeah and my my new favorite thing to say is that's whack but whack stands for we are Charlie Kirk W A C Kee and that's whack parentheses we are Charlie Kirk like I can't stop I can't stop I don't know I think I just have like weird chronically online like incel humor and I'm also like obsessed with clavicular like I just I don't know I I've just sort of started this bit that I'm like really like a Republican incel and I can't stop even though that is so the opposite of every value I've ever upheld. But um yeah that's kind of my confession is that if you don't know me that well and you hear me joke about these kinds of things yeah they might make you uncomfortable a little bit but to know me is to know that like that's why that's why it's funny.

SPEAKER_04

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02

That's my confession.

SPEAKER_01

Wow thank you guys for listening thanks for listening thank you for listening to Digress and Confess our show was created and produced by us Holly Nick and Melissa our show was edited by Nick. Our music is also by Nick. The views we share in our podcast are our own and do not represent the views of our employers. If you enjoyed hanging out with us please rate and review wherever you're listening. T T Y L