The Man Behind Africa's Biggest Brands: Gabriel Nti Appiah (Ghizo) || Masterminds Podcast EP70

Download Achieve By Petra – https://app.theachieveproject.com/PSL0001000

He has worked with Diageo, MTN, Vodafone, Nestlé, Samsung, Unilever, Coca-Cola, Heineken, Ecobank, Standard Chartered, Mastercard Foundation, and Betway — and most of Ghana has never heard his name. That was entirely by design.

In this episode of the Masterminds Podcast, Richie Mensah sits down with Gabriel Nti Appiah — known as Ghizo — founder and CEO of BTL Africa, one of the most quietly powerful business builders on the continent. In 13 years, Ghizo has not lost a single client. He has expanded BTL Africa across Ghana, Nigeria, Liberia, Sierra Leone, Kenya, DRC, and Zambia, and has a stated vision to be among the top three below-the-line agencies globally by 2035. This conversation is a masterclass in how to actually scale a business — not in theory, but from someone who has done it across borders, cultures, and currencies. From the cost of growth, to organic talent development, to cash flow discipline, to when to give equity and when never to, this episode is one of the most practically useful conversations Masterminds has ever recorded.

In this episode, you'll learn:

• Why people — not money, not time — are the biggest difference between growth and stagnation
• The cost of growth problem: why businesses that scale often drop in standards and how to prevent it
• How to develop talent organically so they carry your culture into new markets
• Why you must be willing to give up control to scale — and the opportunity cost of holding on
• The golden rule of equity: never give shares to what you can pay for
• Why cash flow is the blood of your business — and the CapEx mistakes killing most growing companies
• The critical difference between revenue and net profit — and why confusing them will ruin you
• Why BTL Africa has stayed strictly B2B for 15 years and what that has protected

Chapters

00:00 – Intro: The Man Moving in Silence 01:50 – Growing Up a Twin With Teacher Parents 06:42 – From Banking to Marketing: How Ghizo Found His Path 11:29 – National Service at Multimedia and the Foundation Years 17:36 – Starting BTL Africa: Why African Brands First 20:41 – Growth Is About People — Always 28:14 – Organic Talent vs Hired Talent: Which Takes You Further 37:26 – Give Up Control or Stay Small 43:39 – The Golden Rule: Never Give Shares to What You Can Pay For 01:00:54 – Cash Flow, CapEx Discipline and Revenue vs Net Profit

Transcript

SPEAKER_01 0:00

One of the things that have shaped me is the parents that are nature than that, very principled and wanting to sacrifice to see results for others.

SPEAKER_00 0:07

Let's talk about BTL.

SPEAKER_01 0:09

One of those ceremonies, my parents have come to visit me with food, and I was incapable doing Miss C UC. So that's where I knew that I was made for and that's why I ended up at multimedia with national service.

SPEAKER_00 0:21

What kind of systems do you need to put in place to manage that large number of people?

SPEAKER_01 0:26

I think it's the it's the have said that don't give shares to anything you can pay for. You might not have the means, negotiate, find out any way to pay for it. Give shares to what money can buy.

SPEAKER_00 0:41

You know, let me actually use this to tell a story I don't think I've shared before. Before we jump into the conversation, I wanted to take this opportunity to thank you for supporting and deciding to watch this episode. But now I have a favor subscribe to the channel. Subscribing to the channel helps me and the entire mastermind team to continue bringing you wonderful conversations and episodes that bring you closer to being the mastermind you deserve to be. So join the community. Now, this episode is the best for me because, see, let me explain something to you. When you enter the industry, especially as a newbie, you're faking confidence, but you don't believe you like all the words that you're saying. But a few people can actually believe in you and help shape you to become the person that you need to be. And when I started and I was so shy and wasn't sure of myself, I met this man who was so intelligent, who was so confident, like he could give us amazing ideas. You know, you hear that Lynx did this, Lynx did that, and we had these amazing ideas. This man could just call us out of the blue, just give us an idea. Charlie Richie, you guys should try this, try that, try that. He hangs up the phone. He doesn't expect any reward from it. He doesn't ask for a percentage. He just showered ideas. I respected him so much, but put aside all that he's done for me. He's done 10 times more for bigger clients. Now, the reason he never came to ask for my money is my money is too small for him. From DeAju to MTN, to in fact, if I say I'm going to list, let me look at this list. I don't even want to make a mistake. Vodafone, now Telesell, Nestle, Shell, Betwei, Samsung, Unilever, Coca-Cola, Heineken, Echo Bank, Standard Chartered, Twitter, MasterCard Foundation. And these are the ones that I was able to type down. This man is a legend, but the best thing is you probably don't know him because he likes to move in silence while he's doing big things. Let me introduce him first by his government name, Gabriel Kojo Apia, but we all call him Gizo. Gizo.

SPEAKER_01 3:13

Rishi. This intro is too powerful for your young man like.

SPEAKER_00 3:20

Look, you see, here's the thing. Yeah, even if I do 10,000 episodes, yeah, this is going to be my favorite episode for life.

SPEAKER_01 3:28

That's that's I'm saying I'm blushing.

SPEAKER_00 3:30

Is that the one way they say because Gizo, you will never go and sit and do an interview like this. So I am so honored that you are sitting here with me today.

SPEAKER_01 3:40

You say you are the arrow, right?

SPEAKER_00 3:43

So, yes.

SPEAKER_01 3:44

I mean, I'll do it for Richie. I'll challenge for Richie. Also, because of what you are representing. I think over the period, um, a few platforms have been authentic and try to go behind the scenes and get the realities of what's happening on the ground. And so for me, it's a privilege to be having considered uh to to come and sit here and try and speak to you um in today. So for me it's a privilege as well.

SPEAKER_00 4:10

Oh I'm honored, I'm honored. Let's jump into it. Please, let's tell people who Gizo is. Let's let's start from before I go into BTL Africa and all the great things that you've done. Let's start from I want to understand as a young boy, what helps shape your mind to become this sharp business mind.

SPEAKER_01 4:33

I've never expected this one question, right? I I thought it would be let's jump into what happened the last 15 years. But I think um for me, I will be I I will I will be telling a lie if I say I had something that shaped me. I think it's a lot of different factors, right? I'll say a cocktail of issues that have brought me to where I am today. Um because from my upbringing, from two teachers, one in secondary school, one teaching in a primary school, and a father who was a mathematician and therefore a professionist to that extent, I had limited choice about what I could become. Because I just have to make sure that I was giving life my best shots. Okay. And so I think for me, right from kindergarten to primary school, I've always knew that I have to fight to get to where I want to get to. Um, and one of the secrets I have to reveal on this platform is I'm a twin. Really? And so and identical twin? No, no. So you you see my my I thought I'll meet someone in town. So at the at that point, you always have to share whatever you have, but you have to fight for what you you you you you you deserve, right? So I think one of the things that have shaped me is the appearance that I I that I natured under, very principled um and wanting to sacrifice to see results for others. Okay. Um as a teacher, you basically like say teachers' results are in heaven. My my father will spend hours teaching people just that they could pass. My mother was to do the same at the primary school. So I think I had this um uh encounter of always seeing people who were sacrificing hours, make sure people have become better. Okay, and then it shaped what my thinking was, you know. And I mean, my early years so that I said was was not as smooth as others might have had it. I know there's people about saying that, oh, from a difficult I sold water, I sold oranges, I sold one meat pie. This some of these stories are very true, you know, because my father as a teacher in the in the in a secondary school, one of the ways to survive is sell to the people in the boarding house. Okay. So I've gone through all that sales process, and for me, maybe it was preparing me for sales. Because, like as you said in the intro, what I do is to sell ideas and execute the ideas. Yeah. And so at early ages, I had a chance to sell different things, just not as just for fun, but to support my parents. I didn't see it as a sacrifice, I didn't see it as work. For me, it was fun. And so I think my foundation of working under two teachers, having to do things that will be play useful in my later years, and the fact that I knew that um you have to fight for everything that you needed. I think that have shaped maybe what I've managed to do, the small thing I've managed to do as at this time of my life. Yeah, yes, yes.

SPEAKER_00 7:18

I love that you're saying the story this way. And you know, so many people say, Oh, you're a line. Someone will come and insult you in the comments that you didn't sell any meat pie and stuff. They don't want to understand that. I always say it's two things that two startups that help people to succeed. It's either it's passed down from generation, which means the knowledge that a successful parent had, they pass it down to their their child, or it is the character that hardship passed someone through that builds them. I agree. Do you get me? So when they hear the stories that you know, I started with one pen or one jar of water.

SPEAKER_01 7:56

Yeah, it's it sounds too far to believe. Yeah, yeah, I agree. I mean, I agree. And I think also just to bactress your point, the fact that now there are a lot of options, yeah. Right at that point, you knew that if you don't make it, you don't have an option. Yeah, even failing one people was seen as a failure in life, not just in an exams. So you had no option than to succeed to succeed, yeah.

SPEAKER_00 8:18

You know, and it puts more pressure on it.

SPEAKER_01 8:19

Exactly. But within season, that was the way of life. Yeah, because I I didn't grow up in Accra or even in Koforudia. I grew up in a town called Tafo. You know, yes, I mean Tafo currently, my father was teaching in the past. So I didn't know the other side of life, that there was luxury, yeah, that it could be dropped at a school, that you come and meet lunch from a no, I didn't know those ones.

SPEAKER_00 8:41

Hustle was a way of life, and it was normal.

SPEAKER_01 8:43

I mean, I loved it, you know, to walk I mean, to school, to carry things, to go to the farm. Yeah, I think that we thought was were fun. So we I was not exposed to the other side of life. For me to have thought, why am I in this situation? For me, that was the foundation, and that thought that was the norm for every child growing up. You know, and I think those ones are quite those people find it difficult to comprehend because today, through internet, you cannot happen everywhere. There are so many options, and and and we we didn't have that option, so yeah, I think those things also play their role.

SPEAKER_00 9:14

Okay, let's talk about BTL. You know, I I watched you do amazing things for different big companies, and then I saw you start BTL. As soon as you started BTL, I knew I knew how big it was going to get anything that Gizo does, yeah, I knew how big it was going to get. But what's the concept? How did you come up with the idea for BTL?

SPEAKER_01 9:37

I I think I have to go a few steps back, right? Because I'm a banking and finance train student from the University of Ghana. I was supposed to be a banking professional. But uh, I will say, and I keep on saying that I did that course for my parents because um when I was going to university, they wanted me to go somewhere else that the course was more prestigious to say a become course. And I I felt I'm I'm a Kufrodia boy, a footboy, I want to come to Accra. And the way you're going to come to Accra was to come to Lagon. You know, and in Lagon at that time, for first year, you have to do BA courses. And based on your grade points, you can either go and do banking and finance at school of admin, or you stay in the BA courses. Okay. And I've been given music, um, I think dance, uh, religion, and political science. And so my father was worried, if you don't make the grade, do you want to pursue this? Or you go to become that you are sure you're going to get a course that if you finish, you might be well placed. Okay. And I remember uh my father's friend came telling that no, he won't get the Lagon course because it's very competitive. And that's why I realized that I live for competition. That that's that line alone. And that line alone, I mean, I and I I overheard them a convo in their sitting room, you know, that chamber and hall, saying that no, let me go to Kivas because Lagon is too tight. They take only 200 students out of 10,000, blah, blah. And I told my father I will make it. You know, so fast forward, that's how my marketing business model was natured, apart from the home tuition I've gotten, like I told you. So did banking and finance, but I still do marketing under the school for administration. Yeah. And then I saw that I love this when I started doing whole weeks. Okay. You know, I realized that whole weeks became my thing. And I remember either it was one of their visiting days, or it was the graduation, or one of those ceremonies. My parents have come to visit me with food, and I was in Cape Course doing me C UC. You know, so that's where I knew that I was made for lifestyle, for bringing brands out and for giving exposure to a lot of assets. So all this one were burning me for the career ahead. And I'm a man of faith. So I believe that things don't happen by chance. So I realized that that experience I had, and just when I was going to go to do national service, we have done whole week in Lagon. Multimedia came around as a sponsor at Joy FM, and then the the then head of marketing von Bakustan just told me that don't waste your time on banking and finance. Come to Joy FM based on the interaction he has had with me and how I've carried myself. And that's why I ended up at multimedia with national service. Interesting. And I thought I was a presenter because I mean young boy with a swag multimedia. And I remember as I was fighting, I thought I was going to do presenting, but he wanted me to come and do marketing. Okay. You know, and events and promotions. So I remember that that time Kojelfon was multimedia head of sports, and I told him how I was finding ways. And he told me to go and cover a golf event at Hachimota Golf.

SPEAKER_02 12:43

Okay.

SPEAKER_01 12:44

I went there, covered it, and brought the story to Joe FM. They never used it. I'm sure it was so horrible with my fast-paced speaking and all that one. But somehow, somehow, in the same time, one has asked me to come to multimedia. You know, so and like I keep on these are what is the stars do align. So I went in there and I had some very good foundations. I worked under different personalities. Um, one of them Cox Tamaklu. Oh, um, an industry star what was a professionist at that time. I worked with Tetewasen, I worked with Rudikwache, Johenus, uh Esnam, uh Ekua Yirinchi. These are seasoned personalities, yes. And I was privileged enough to also be part of production of some some at that time top-level content. Night with the Stars, Schools Reunion, Rider Fair, Joe Fair Mr Soup Kitchen.

SPEAKER_00 13:38

Yeah, I'm revealing, I'm revealing my age. Yeah, yeah, yeah. I wasn't there for this.

SPEAKER_01 13:42

So I think all that one was shaping me for the bigger heddle, you know. And so I was privileged to have learned and studied under these people. And one thing as we do, Pastor, I know this platform gives people to also share, the fact that I never stayed within my confines. Even though I was uh activation in promotions, I always find myself in programming. I'll be producing Bollar on drive time. I find myself sneaking in some of their evening shows with DJ Black. Like I was always looking for opportunities to shine. And then also I had a chance to sometimes learn from at that time Stan Dugbe, who was the head of production for the morning show, and then most of the assets that we will build were being run on that platform. So then I had different uh tuition from different people. But one thing I always do that I never shine away from learning. Okay, and I never stay in the box. So though I was events and promotions, news newsroom knew me, events will know me, programming will know me, and that's how I learned the foundation. Then I have to jump into a proper core marketing agency, which is logo marketing. And um, that was McKenia company, they've come to town, and by divine um alignment with a friend called Eugene Titi, I met them and they that's where the religious started from. Okay, so four years in multimedia, where it was a media house, and therefore events and promotions was like a peripheral function before now into a main agency, that was the main thing. And those are the things that I asked who are coming up that find out what your core is and use your early years to learn, but learn that in your core. Okay, you know, as if you want to be an accountant, learn everything, but make sure you're going to an auditors' firm if you want to grow in the technical field. Yeah, if you are um a marketing person, make sure you end up in a company that marketing is a core field, you know. But even if you are the peripheral, make sure that you are growing, that's supposed to become a main service. Yeah, you know. So at the point in time, school was very big and it was being done by the events or promotions team. Obviously, the programming, but we became relevant in the system. So, I mean, fast forward I joined Suevo, that's where the experience and exposure started, you know. And I was privileged to have worked under where one man, George Remirmu, a Kenyan by by by birth and by by by um by um growth. And you know, Kenya is advanced in marketing because they had exposure more with the um foreigners more because their weather is conducive. Um, and because their industry is actually a long time. They've got the Safaricom, which was which are one of the biggest payment platforms globally, then they had advanced in marketing. So I had a chance to learn from them, uh, spent some months in Kenya just learning about the industry. Again, did four years there, just like I did four years at multimedia. Yeah, okay. I think I have a four-year term. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Yeah, like a president. I'm a president, I'm a I'm a candidate. I'm a candidate. And then jumped, and then I think after four years, I felt the time was now for me to create something. Of your own. And also because as I was with civil, most of the brands we work with were never African brands. And I keep I it kept it kept worrying me. I didn't know why, but I felt like why are we not doing this for Africans? They're almost like a multinational brand from somewhere. Yeah, even though I love working for them, I always believe that very soon we start working for African brands. So when I get a chance to set up, my early brands were I had buyers towards African brands. So Kasaperko. You know, because at that time I felt that this is Ghanaian, it's African, and so the love for it grew higher. And so that's how then, after four years multimedia, four years with several, having learned from the parents, the academic side, having the experience of a support service in multimedia and a main spine in an agency. I thought I was ripe enough to not take the challenge on. And that's how then we started the whole VTL Africa conversation.

SPEAKER_00 17:39

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SPEAKER_01 18:21

No, so you say we'll write your book and we do your movie. When you finish your book, then we we look at others, you know, Richie.

SPEAKER_00 18:27

But how has the journey been like?

SPEAKER_01 18:29

I think it's been wonderful. I mean, to say the least. Um it has everything in there, you know, it has everything in there. Um, challenges, success, failures, gains, growth, but above all, impact. Nice. I think the biggest thing is the impact. And um, as we've grown, when we were 10 years, we changed our tagline to um empower brands and impact lives. Okay. Eventually that became our true, our our our our true story, you know. And so it's been that one. But I think that I'll be allowed to say that the wisdom that I was privileged to have received to bring like-minded people around was core and was key. Okay, right? Growth is not it's not an art, it's a science. Okay, and therefore, if you want to grow, you will have to get some formula right. And a lot is about people. You know, people is to me the biggest challenge between growth and stagnation. Okay. It will never be money, it will never be time, it will be growth, it will be people. And so I think when I saw that this is becoming a bigger vision, I know you want to go stages, but I might just go ahead of myself and talk about it. But the first was to bring an East African partner.

SPEAKER_02 19:45

Okay.

SPEAKER_01 19:46

Because once I knew this was going to be, it was going to be I knew I knew the right partner, to bring an East African Jorugi, and therefore to make sure that um to conquer the East, you have to go with somebody who understands the East. Yeah. So that's the partner that I the first partner that we managed to bring in. And then obviously understanding that you have to go and bring those other innovations and become bigger. I also found a partner in the West, which is um a lawyer Monday. Okay. And having his whole his rich media um experience, I knew that this team was what was needed to move this to the next level. So I think growth has been phenomenal, like I said. It's been awesome. It has had pains, that's had regrets, that's had failures. Part of the journey. Exactly. But above all, empower brands and impact lives has been what the successor has been like.

SPEAKER_00 20:38

I'm so glad you are even talking about growth. You've sped me up in the conversation. So let's go. Now, you see, I've seen a lot of businesses. I mean, you've seen more than I have, but I've seen a lot of businesses fall down when it was time for them to actually scale up. I want to understand something. What do you think, as a founder or as a business leader, what do you think is the difference between a company that is able to scale versus a company that just dwindles and dies?

SPEAKER_01 21:09

Richie, I I will not I'm not um cutler, you know, who has done marketing and routine books. Neither am I an expert because I believe that there's no strategy for growth. Okay. I don't believe that you have to look at your scenario and shape around it. But there are some truth that you cannot run away from. And the fact is that people are integral. You know, a long time ago, one of my mentors I look up to, Christian Anu told me that every vision you have will be built around people. Because we didn't know AI would come and come and duplicate people. I know, right? We could have now you can be somewhere and be also in other offices, right? But you need people to grow around it. I think people is the core to growth, and therefore when People grow to a certain point. That's what we call the case of growth. Where growth is a certain point that you grow so thin and that your values begin to drop. Okay. And that's the biggest challenge for growth. You know, the case of growth. You see one somebody have one branch, they are doing so well, and then they begin to open two, three branches and they are coming down. Yeah. Because this spread thing. And so the case of growth is a very real, I mean, it's a very um legitimate case that's if you're a founder, you need to find a way around it. That how do you be able to duplicate the success of one into multiple? Yes. And doesn't come easy at all. I mean, your industry are very much away. You can have one artist, you are doing so well, two artists, it gets to five, six, and expect that they want what the one person was giving is what they're giving everybody, especially in the service industry. Yeah. Because if it's a product, they don't want to know the owner, it's fine. But the service industry, the one that one delivering the service is so important.

SPEAKER_00 22:53

You know, there was a restaurant that I used to eat at all the time in Tessano. I won't mention names. Yeah, I used to eat at that restaurant at Testano all the time. And I'm in Achimota. So I always say, Hey, if these people ever slap you open Nachimata, I'll go there every day. And they open in Achimata. And I used to go back to the Tessano one. Exactly. Because it was not the same. It wasn't the same.

SPEAKER_01 23:13

Yes, and that's the case of growth. You know, the appearance that you could still go to Testano. Imagine you couldn't go to Testano, they've lost you. Yes. Because even though growth came, it didn't maintain the standards. Yeah. Remember the popular Miyatos we used to go and eat at uh um what's it called? Um the chimata station. Yes, the the the yes, and and if you try to duplicate, yeah, you cannot have the taste as it was before. You know, so the case of growth is very real. And once you begin to grow, there's so much the propensity that you will drop in standards. And that's the fear of growth also for people, and also become also a catalyst for growth to have the right people.

SPEAKER_00 23:49

Okay, you know.

SPEAKER_01 23:50

So I think for me, the the like on saying that the idea of bringing Sam in Jorogi and Eloy Amande money to help us grow into Nigeria, into Liberia, into Sierra Leone, into Kenya, into DRC, into Zambia, into other markets with consistency because then among the three of us, we thought that what growth means, what the service experience meant, and we could take it from there. Obviously, you need one ship captain who is directing the path. Yeah. But you know that you need the Lettenans who ensure that when you chart the path, the road is kept clean for others to come and follow through. So, in my thinking, I think for all those who have that one shop, that they want to open the two shops, three shops, look at how you can duplicate the success across. It doesn't come easy. It's not a giving. Like a science, growth is not an art, it's a science. You have to understand how you can get that one science to go and duplicate somewhere else. Okay, and that's what I mean have been very core for us. You know, the fact that you find people who understood the vision and they never fought the vision, you know, because sometimes you can bring people in the camera rather fight the vision than supporting the vision. Yeah. And then you can duplicate that across the continent, become a winning formula. Yes.

SPEAKER_00 25:07

I like that you're talking about growth and talking about people, even though I have to say, one of the toughest things is to find the right people.

SPEAKER_01 25:14

I I it's not a lie.

SPEAKER_00 25:16

So, how how do you manage to do that? Because I think that's most people's biggest fears. Let's say I'm a hairdresser, yeah, and I've opened a Topunglo. Yeah. You know, I don't want to open another one at maybe Spintex. I can't be at two places at once. Yeah. How do I find a hairdresser as good as me so that when I'm here, they are there?

SPEAKER_01 25:34

I wish I knew Richie. I'll be in we would have been in 50 countries. We would have been in Europe, we would have been in America. So I I I I think it's just about, and this is how I learned I've picked over the period, that organic growth people turn out to be the best in expansions. Okay. Because they understand how you started a new vision. Yeah. You know, my best people in the company are those who still started growing growth with us. Okay. Because they understood what it meant and they understood the culture and the values. So they could easily duplicate. Yeah. People who will join you when you are growing, they are very key to your business. But they might not be called for your growth journey.

SPEAKER_00 26:17

Okay.

SPEAKER_01 26:17

You know? They'll be called for maintenance after the growth. After the growth. So they say what brought you here will not take you there. So the people that you grew up with will bring you here. Yeah. But you need the new people as well to take you there. But if you leave them to go alone, they will not carry the vision, the culture into the places. Yeah. So it's a hybrid.

SPEAKER_00 26:36

Okay.

SPEAKER_01 26:36

You know, it's a hybrid of finding, first of all, people who you grow with. And I mean, in our company still, there are changes who have done 12, 13 years with us. You know, and that is remarkable that there are around five people who have lived their career life with us. And those have become the proponents of growth for the business. They have gone, one of them have gone to Zambia, gone to Liberia, have gone to Sierra Leone, I've gone to Nigeria. And like I said, some has gone to open up DRC and Kenya and the rest. So I think what is core in that journey, though nobody can be predictive enough to know what the right formula is the fact that organic growth of talents can become one of the best ways of growing into multiple markets. For those who might come when you are stable, they might take that attitude of stability to go and open a new one, which will fail.

SPEAKER_00 27:30

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 27:32

You know? Because the mindset for growth is not different from the mindset for them. You know, I keep on saying that if you are planning to be another woman who has given birth, that's how businesses also are. The first three months, or sometimes six months, when the company gives them leave. Yeah. It's just like your first three years of your business. Right? Everything has to stop for the baby. Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 27:54

All attention.

SPEAKER_01 27:55

All attention to the baby. And don't forget, you've even your mother-in-law have to come and the nanny has to come. Yeah. That's the attention you give to a newborn baby. And you don't eat because you want to eat, but you eat because the child has to eat thick breast milk.

SPEAKER_00 28:04

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 28:05

And that's the same philosophy and theory of go to go to a new business. Everything has to stop for the new business. And so for those who witness that culture, they can duplicate it in another market. But the one who will come when their business is 10 years. Yes. Or when the child is 10 years, it's extra classes and going to school. The child is independent. If they if they will not eat, it's not a big deal. But when the child is one month, they have not eaten, it will break loose. So that philosophy of how childbirth is how business also is. Okay. But in while it's in months in business, in childbirth, it is yes. So three months is three years.

SPEAKER_02 28:43

Okay.

SPEAKER_01 28:44

And therefore, when the child between the first three months, you have to bring somebody, it's not about whether they can speak English or not. It's about whether they can bathe the child, they can apply things, and just keep an eye. When they cut to school growth level, you don't need that kind of learning again because now somebody who can speak with them do their homework. The same thing with business. After the first six years, people, the fear is that those people who you grow with might not be able to take you to the next level. The learning is definitely not equip themselves.

SPEAKER_00 29:12

Okay.

SPEAKER_01 29:13

Because the nanny who does not equip themselves, because they are busy with the child, start becoming a bit more less relevant. They become a liability now. But the learning solid. But learning is that whilst you are taking care of the child, what are that things you can do for the nanny to also upgrade themselves? Yeah. So when they get to their school growing age, they can still play a role. You know, and so there's a lot of scenario between how we grew up as personalities and how business grew up.

SPEAKER_02 29:37

Yeah, true.

SPEAKER_01 29:38

You know, and so making a lot of sense. So the first three years, first this year, now they've moved um maternity leave to six months. Some countries, one year. The same thing for business. Your first three years, you have to live for your business. You don't live for yourself.

SPEAKER_02 29:54

You live for your business. You live for your business.

SPEAKER_01 29:55

Yeah. And then the next three years, you are living for your business. And the more you grow now, at the you know, at childbirth, your parents will come around. This is the same way at this one, mentors and people come around you. Yeah. But they can't be there forever. And once you have one year, they start leaving you, your child is growing. It's the same mentality. Okay. You know, so growth. The reason why you can give birth to multiple children and raise them is that somebody looks at a toddler, somebody looking at it for five years. The same thing happens in business. But if you choose somebody who's taken care of people who are three years, four years who are going to school, come and look for somebody who is a toddler. They will leave them. Yeah. They will leave them.

SPEAKER_00 30:36

So if I'm getting you, this means when you're trying to scale up, you need to understand that the core dedicated people are relevant for starting that new franchise, or if I can call it that, to be able to lift it up. Yes. And then you bring in the if I can say management type experts people who will now run it once every ideally standardized.

SPEAKER_01 30:59

Increase the capacity of the one who started the enterprise to fuel the growth.

SPEAKER_00 31:04

Okay.

SPEAKER_01 31:04

And bring the other peripherals to support with the growth. Okay. So that the culture is maintained. But what if you want to continue growing? So you have you whilst the scan one is being grown, you are you are cultivating the next startup person to go and take the third third enterprise. Okay. Okay. Right? So branch one, you are doing it yourself to go under you. When they are CCS, they've picked the culture, you have added capacity to them in leadership because leadership is different from technical knowledge. Yeah. And then they can go inside the next two branches. When they are starting, other two people are working with them. So then they will also go inside the next two. Okay. But when they get to the CCS, then you can bring people in to come and make sure that now you do your homework. Now you sleep on time. But it's not, it doesn't erose those who make sure that the culture of discipline which were which were putting you when you were young is still being maintained.

SPEAKER_00 31:56

You've answered my next question because I was going to ask that is there a system that can be built around scale now?

SPEAKER_01 32:03

Yeah, yeah. And for me, that's one of them. The other way, like people will do that they don't have the time to wait, so they will go and adopt a child. So you can go and look at the business doing well and then go and buy it. Okay. Because they might have a good culture you like. So people buy different franchises, and that's their growth strategy. Okay. And it's very much allowed. Yeah. Right? You might not have what it takes, or you might not have the time to build through all the pregnancy and nine months and all those ones. And so you're comfortable going for adopt a child that you see. I mean, I mean, it's not a good company because that one is more is not for commercial purposes. But you can go and adopt a business that you think have the culture, and that's how growth happens. So some franchises don't come and set up new, they look for a brand that's doing well, and they they go and get interested in it, and that's how growth can happen. So there are different formulas, but for organic growth, it has to come from within. Okay, and that's the biggest learning I've had over the period of time.

SPEAKER_00 32:57

But now let's look at the size of people. Because you have like over 500 contract staff and like over 5,000 temporary staff across Africa. So, how what kind of systems do you need to put in place to manage that large number of people?

SPEAKER_01 33:12

I think it's the is the organogram, right? Okay. And the span of control. And now that there's AI, it's easier to even monitor. And I think you say this one, so we are doing this for brands. So if it is um, and I think I'm allowed to say, if you are doing this for Samsung and managing over 100 plus people for them, yeah, and over the last five years, you have a span of control that ensure that you don't see the bigger 500, but you see every five. Okay. So in every five, there's a supervisor. And so you can either look at it wide way or do the silo and see them in that kind of market. Okay. We do something similar for um a brand in Liberia, right? And the same thing. For every five, every 10, you see them in that kind of so you never see the fool or you get scared. So when you talk to one talk to you, don't talk to that five, you talk to their leader, then they have a leader. So you build a system that you only see that oh, it's 500. By you, you see five, five, five, five, five, five. So we are doing something similar in DRC, we are doing something similar in um Zambia, in Liberia, in Ghana, but we see the people in that silos. So a structure makes sure that for every five, it's a reporting structure ahead of them. And that's also reporting to somebody. Okay. That helps you. It's like the the the tree, right? The the Christmas tree. Yeah. The base is very thick and the top is thin. Okay. And it's also for businesses. The only reason why triangles do stand is that the broader side is on the table and the top is thinner. Yeah. When you turn it the other way around, it will never stand. Collapse, yeah. And that's another theory that I think it is. That for businesses, the base have to be more. Those who get the work done have to be more. The middle matter has to be few, and then the top has to be thin. Okay. Whenever you see a broader top, it's going to fall down.

SPEAKER_02 34:56

True.

SPEAKER_01 34:57

You know, and again, that's one of the cares of growth. Yeah. You all of them become managers and very few people are doing the work. In that case, you have an inverse triangle. Yeah. Where the big boy is plenty. Exactly. And then if the base is few. Yeah. It cannot stand. And these are all the theories that we and listen, they are not you, you are to move along. You identify them that no, whenever the base is few, you should panic. Okay. Well, that's where work gets done. That's where you make the money. That's the real prisoner. That's the tactical side. And the middle side supports, they take information from the top to the down, and take information from the down and support. Okay. And the top of a strategy happens. Whenever you have two people in a ship, it will crash. Even in an airplane, captain's the only one who's allowed to speak. There's a co-pilot. The co-pilot has nothing to do until he's asked to do something. And the same thing with businesses. So once you have the top being wider, you are in trouble. Seriously for disaster. If I look at globally, all the planets are doing very well, there's that one leader.

SPEAKER_02 36:01

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 36:02

Who picked the vision, who then send it to the senior management for strategy, who moves it for the middle manager for tactics, and then who moves it to the base for actions. And this cannot be can never be done in any different way.

SPEAKER_00 36:14

So we have to keep the triangle. The triangle is the golden rule.

SPEAKER_01 36:16

It's the golden rule. The top has to be thin, the middle has to be there, the bits have to be larger. And that's one of the key formulas for winning in our industry.

SPEAKER_00 36:26

One of the biggest lessons I've learned in life and in business is that not everything deserves access to you. Your attention is valuable, your focus is valuable. And in this world full of noise and distraction, the ability to control your world is your true power. Lynx Reverb was designed for premium sound, complete silence, and amazing clarity. So head to any Compute Ghana shop or to our website, linkseelectronics.com, down in the description, and grab yourself a headset now. Lynx Reverb, now that's clarity. There's one fear most founders have. They fear that scaling means losing control. Because you know, whereas, let's say when it begins, your conversations with your employees are right in front of the person. Okay, now it's a WhatsApp group, now it's an email chain. Now you have to send an email for somebody to go to it's like you lose control. You issue for something to be done, and there are so many um obstacles between you and the person executing that. You don't, you know, you know, one thing every leader develops is an ability to motivate. Yes. Now you don't even have the direction.

SPEAKER_01 37:44

Access to the people to motivate them.

SPEAKER_00 37:45

Yes. So how does a founder handle that?

SPEAKER_01 37:49

And I keep on saying that um we can only speak from what we have experienced, right? Okay. And what has worked out has failed so that people can pick experience from it. Yeah. I think the factual truth is that you have to be willing to lose some control at a point in time. The outcomes can be varied because how you want things that might not be done as it's being done, yeah, but there's the opportunity cost of holding the all the control and staying within your confines or democratizing the control and getting the outcome you are looking for.

SPEAKER_00 38:21

Opportunity cost, because at the end of the day, too, if you don't let go of the control, it reduces the number of things you can do. Yeah, yeah. And and like I said, Richie, it's it's always going to be a give and take affair, right?

SPEAKER_01 38:34

Yeah, like I told you, 10% of one million is bigger than 100% of 10,000. Exactly. You know, so I've come to understand that the opportunity cost of growing is seeding some some space. Yeah. And don't let us get it wrong. It's not a crime not to grow. Like people are very fine having one institution doing very well. It's there's nothing limiting about it. Um, and is the parable of the Bible about the seed and giving people different, uh, the parable of the soa, giving people different um talents and how they do it. And so it's not a crime. Don't let us do that. Scaling is success.

SPEAKER_00 39:14

Okay.

SPEAKER_01 39:15

Success can be one person who does who does that uh fried jam and so well, everybody goes to them and goes the long queue.

SPEAKER_00 39:21

Like there's this endomet joints that have been eaten at for the past you know 20 years.

SPEAKER_01 39:26

Yeah, yeah, yeah. And that person is very successful. Yeah, you know, we should not equate expansion or growth to success. That's that's the first giveaway I want to release. Okay, but because you want to impact more people, then you want to extend this grace into further places. And when you are doing these ones, um the control will also something that you always have to think through about what you will, right? I have said that don't give shares to anything you can pay for. Okay, true, because once you're given shares, you are not making enough money that it will hurt you about what the person the shares you give for. I'll rather borrow for and pay the service than to give shares for it. Give shares for what you cannot pay for.

SPEAKER_00 40:11

Okay.

SPEAKER_01 40:13

Intangible. Intangible. Don't put in a hurry, they want to rent a place, and therefore a share partner can pay the rent for you. They will pay 60,000 for the rent. In five years down the line, and you give them 40%, you have 50 million and they sell 40% of you because they paid you 60,000. So don't give shares to what you can pay for. It might not be within your means right now. Find a way to pay for it. Either accumulate the cost plus interest and pay later, look for facility and pay for the person, but give shares for what you cannot buy. Experience, rich. So saving, Kenyan, marketing. I cannot go and buy that kind of resources. Yeah, right? Mr. Eloyamandi, well-trained media, gentleman, speaks well, understands the industry. Yeah, I cannot go and and and buy that one. So I'm in a hurry to bring them to the fold because I cannot pay for that. Yeah. But for anybody who's running a service, a supplier, a vendor, I'd rather take a facility to go and pay it than to give shares for it. Yeah. So I mean the golden rule in business with ownership, control, and sharing is that we don't give shares for what you can pay for.

SPEAKER_00 41:25

That's a very valuable.

SPEAKER_01 41:26

You might not have the means to pay now, find ways, negotiate for payment terms. Give shares for what you cannot buy, what money cannot buy. It's a very, very important. Sometimes it's network.

SPEAKER_02 41:39

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 41:39

Sometimes accessibility. But what you can pay for consultancy, make sure that you are finding ways to pay or negotiate to have a payment plan. Or you'll regret most of the turmoil have come from that point where you feel like this guy came to pay my rent for 60,000. I've worked so and gave him 40% because something's so big at that time. Yeah. Now I'm worth 5 million and they still have 2.3 million in it. And then you have to begin to begin, you know. So when you reach a scientist, they cannot pay for the experience. Like they are new. They can't. There's no way they can get no matter, no matter how much money can pay for what you put on that table. And so they have to seed something to you. And it's it's it's it's again it's scientific, you know. But if you are going to do distribution, you don't pay, give share somebody going to distribution for you. Because you can't it's it's payable. Okay, if you have the money, there's a network who can who can distribute for you right now. Yeah, you you understand my point. So I think I always say that people come and say, Oh, he he he didn't give me any money, but it's one shares. What is giving you is you can't pay for it. It's worth more. It's worth it. You can't even compare. You know, I have people who have picked up and I'm I'm trying to coach, and I tell you, I sit with you in this room and I share with you, and you can't pay for it. Because what I had to go through, jumping through windows, went to Sierra Leone. I didn't know you have to pass on water. I got there done. Yeah, water is shaking. Went to DRC, I can't speak French, and I have to open up a branch in DRC. Yeah, what you went through, and I went for breakfast, and they had um millipits and the rest in their food as condiments, you know. What you have to face to go to you can't pay for it. Yeah. But so when I speak to you in that level and you want to give me something, you have to understand that it will have to be more than if you can't pay for it, you will have to sit something. And I if I'm in a place of just supporting, I'm supporting. But the things about I want somebody to coach something for me. I don't have money now, so I'm giving shares. Yeah, I say no, take your time. Time that let me owe you, or let me go for to pay for that. Coding and the rest, there are a lot of people who can do it. You they do coding, it's a one-off coding. Now they become shareholder. Yeah, and now every time they are there, coming to the show. They just need to make some one update, the and then they are they are and then they are because they also have other things they are doing, your business is preparing for. To them, yeah, and their shareholder. This is what this is your bread and butter, and you can't have assets because you have to give you a lot of shares. So, my golden rule: don't give shares to what you can pay for. You might not have the means, negotiate, find an alternative way to pay for it. Give shares to what money cannot buy.

SPEAKER_00 44:18

You know, let me actually use this to tell a story I don't think I've shared before. So, a lot of people don't know the reason behind my partnership with Quick Angels. Yes. So when I my partnership with Quick Angels actually started with Tigon.

SPEAKER_01 44:32

Interesting.

SPEAKER_00 44:33

So Lynx was already there. They discussed Lynx, but I was like, hey, hey, Links is my baby. So okay, I have this new thing I want to start. So let's start it together. So at that point, I was just looking for okay, if I can get seed money to start the business, then it's good. Now, when we started Tygon and we ran it for about a year, the value of Tygon, I came to realize that the value I got from the relationship was not the funding, it was the business skills.

SPEAKER_01 45:03

Accessibility, thank you. There's business skills that you are learning by sitting with the person. Thank you.

SPEAKER_00 45:07

And so those ones, no money can pay for it. Thank you. So then I realized that wait, but I have a very big growth plan for links, and I'm looking for partners who can grow with you.

SPEAKER_01 45:17

Strategic partners.

SPEAKER_00 45:18

Thank you. So the the bringing them in on links was more on thinking of the future where I want to go.

SPEAKER_01 45:25

Somebody have charged the path. Thank you. Multiple markets, different products, and they are winning. Yes. Money cannot buy that one. Money cannot buy that. I will hand over whatever I have, 90% to the person. So that can grow together. Yes. You know, so and it's it's a very good example because most people misconstrued those ones and think that oh, you go for the money. Yes. You go for what you cannot. And you have to. Because money comes, money goes. Yes, you're a very young man, but you are old enough to know that there are some things that they are timing. Yeah. By the myth that you will have, you have some network. Yeah. By where you visit, you have some network. If it passes by you, it's gone. It's gone. And so if you're not prepared to go to an international school where your mates are in to like say well-connected places, you have to find a way to get those networks. And my camera's giving us because you cannot pay. You cannot go and say that pay and say, I'm going to sit at uh live nation and get networks. No, someone has to bring you in there. So I see that partnership, and I was telling myself, this is what most young enterprises are yelling for. A pattern that the person is giving you more than money. Yeah. You know, accessibility, network, risk. Like it was, it was, and I have been watching that story, and I hope that it will come out better for people to appreciate that it's a complementary action and a supplementary action.

SPEAKER_02 46:49

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 46:50

You know, and I think because most people don't think like that, which is what limits scaling in this. Exactly. Exactly. Most people assume what scaling is hey, boss who one man, then I will just grow on my own. But you need to be like how we're talking about giving up control. Yeah, you need to reach a point where you realize that if the dream is bigger than you, yes, then you need other giants to grow with you.

SPEAKER_01 47:17

Let me give you a story. So when we're around six years, it was getting bigger than us. Then I I I ringed a friend, Andrew Obobu, of um one of the biggest agencies at that time, which is global, right? Okay, DIN2. And I said, Listen, we want to become big. People are already big, but you don't have an experiential wing. Okay. So take us as your experiential partner. He made calls to SA to UK, and therefore we the we became the experiential partners of DIN2 in West Africa.

SPEAKER_00 47:51

Okay.

SPEAKER_01 47:52

That was a very big leap in our journey. You know, so like I is that like you are saying, we could have become all us and only be BTL beyond the line. So at that time, our logo changed to become BTL underscore DIN2. Oh, okay. Interesting. You know, and through that one, we had access to courses we never have had. Okay. We had training in essay, we had training in different markets, they had global experiential agencies that we could send briefs to for them to help us to unlock because they've done it before. Yeah. You know, and no amount of money could have paid for this. So the growth channels come in different ways, like I said. Look for those who complement the growth journey. Look for those who bring value to the journey. Money will also be part of it. I mean, you cannot ignore the fact that we have to also pay for the stretches we have put in. But in choosing between A and B, we try to make a chart point in time. It's about the people or the platform that gives you more than what you have. And then the money becomes an add-on for the whole journey.

SPEAKER_00 48:57

See, this is why AI can never replace people, because people are the value.

SPEAKER_01 49:02

AI is coming.

SPEAKER_00 49:08

People using AI will replace people not using AI.

SPEAKER_01 49:12

Um I'm quiet. We revisit that conversation another time. Yeah, because I mean, you know, especially for you in the creative space, yeah. It's it's a very, very interesting time that a lot of things are making way for AI, but like we're talking about before this conversation, that there are still those core things that you know that AI cannot make it as somebody would have made it. Yeah, so they have become more supportive tools and neighbless than the main platform. Yeah, I think um the way you have become an expert in AI they don't know that, they don't know that as a person across industries, you're going to become the biggest beneficiary. You know, you don't have to fight it, you have to learn it. Yeah, and see how it helps you to become the best version of yourself.

SPEAKER_00 49:58

Because it it's like 10x's your ability, sometimes even 100x.

SPEAKER_01 50:02

Yeah, yeah. Like I said, don't fight the wave. Yeah, no, when they see the wave coming, I tell people don't fight the wave.

SPEAKER_00 50:08

I was watching this um documentary when they brought um credit cards and debit cards, and people were insulting it that this is the most foolish invention. Why would I want to have my money on a card? And then I heard about photography. They said, you know, the same way people talk about AI right now, that it's not art. You know, it took 50 years for them to accept photography as art. Yeah, because the painter said, This is not art, you're just clicking. You know, real art is taking days, weeks to draw the person. Yeah, you know. So I think sometimes we need to understand the fact that things change. It's not always going to be the season. Don't fight the way.

SPEAKER_01 50:49

And and I think as you speak about that, man, even it happens in a new man, right? Yeah, people might go through a lot to put together hits to build something, to learn something. And they think everybody has to go through that same that's that's that same journey.

SPEAKER_00 51:01

So you parent that says I walk to school, so you also have to work to school.

SPEAKER_01 51:05

You get in some newsrooms, some media houses, an editor who spent three years covering and never used a story for like can't come today and your story is being used. You know, you have to stay three years before your story is being used. But they also forget that at that time there were only two media houses, and now everybody's a media house.

SPEAKER_00 51:23

Everybody, everybody's a media house. My phone, I'm a media house.

SPEAKER_01 51:26

I mean, you you you you that's all you need to come in a media house. So um there's also the temptation of people trying to fight the new ways of getting things done, yeah, and thinking that everybody has to go through a dictionary to get the right word, and therefore, if you use any way to find the right word, it's not the right word, it's not done the right way. Like you're saying, art has to be drawn, painted, filled. Come have your body have to be dirty after you are done, and now you're using a tablet and just doing an art. Yeah, or you take a photographic and shoot and say this art and they are not accepting it. By the time it happens, I mean, the story about mobile money is well documented, yeah. The way people fought it, even in this market, you know, and but eventually it is becoming the way of life. So, obviously, innovations as founders, as entrepreneurs, is something that you have to embrace. Okay, you know, it's at those times to do a proposal, you have to sit down, do the slides, look for the images, you have to find different things to do different things.

SPEAKER_00 52:26

One who's going to do the right app and one who's going to have to do the football.

SPEAKER_01 52:30

Thank you. But now with AI, you can get a lot of things done over a period of time. And and it's interesting. You I remember we're doing purchase around for Nigeria, and you have to travel to Nigeria to go and understand the market.

SPEAKER_00 52:40

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 52:41

You know, right now with AI, you can get real market research, yeah, and actually put people in the market through AI to understand how the works, you know, at back-end integration.

SPEAKER_00 52:51

So sometimes I do market research in Ghana and I'm amazed AI knows so much about my country that I don't know.

SPEAKER_01 52:56

So I think, yeah, embracing AI will be called to where we are going as founders.

SPEAKER_00 53:02

Okay, let's let's talk about something that means I want to know. Okay, how do you manage to get so many blue chip clients? You know, landing one giant client, one oh MTN, one is difficult enough. Every agency knows that if you can get one client, you are fine. And you have them in multitudes. How what what skill does BTL have that you keep having the largest of clients? The power of team. Okay.

SPEAKER_01 53:33

I think the power of team because eventually going to win the pitch, doing the job to be maintained is very important, right? And I mean, I I say this that for the for the last 13 years we've been operating, just as BTL beyond the line, we've not lost a client. Yes. Every client we've had has stayed with us. It's either they want to leave the market or they've stopped advertising. Okay. But you can't say the client said, I'm tired of you're not using you again. And that is a testament to the fact that the whole value chain of the thinking process, the doing process, the uh reporting process, the quality control, the team is doing it together. Also, because we do a lot of global thinking. Well, we think globally, but execute locally.

SPEAKER_00 54:16

Okay, global.

SPEAKER_01 54:17

Yes. So when um Vodafone was bringing their mobile money, we went to Kenya at our own court to understand how Impesa is working. Yeah. So that we could execute for them. Okay. People don't invest in this kind of process, right? Um, and in so many times, when a brand is coming, I've gone to Europe, I've gone to watch Qatar World Cup because I knew America was coming up, you have to do something. Okay. Investing in their process is very important. Most times when we are this part of the world, processes are scanty and it's very understandable that you do you keep it, do you keep what you have, or you spend what you have to get more? Yeah. For me, I think you have to invest to get more. So we have brought people from, we hired people from Kenya, from Rwanda, from South Africa, across the world to come and work with us so that we could become because the branch you are working for are not local, they are not just targeting here. Yeah. Because Apropos is targeting Nigeria, Kenya. Therefore, if you want to do for them, you have to have that team of resource people to work together. You know, you can't become the best in Africa if you have only you don't have the best in Africa's talent. Yeah. And that's what I always like. I tell my team that if you want to become the best in Africa, you have to have the best in Africa in talent. So we have always make sure that the pool of people that are doing it can compete globally. I tell people that I think if I go where in the world, I should be able to compete. If I can't compete, I'm not in business. But the judge we are working for is a global brand. The telescope we are working for is a global brand. The Samsung you are working for is a global brand. The necessary we are working for is a global brand. And therefore, the people you bring together should be able to give you a global challenge or a global competitive advantage. And so the first thing is about we have brought people who understand and therefore who are willing to make sure that the brand stays with us. The second thing I would say will be how we have been innovative in our thinking. Like you can become a local champion or can challenge yourself to always go above and beyond. So when I've had a chance to execute, we don't look at where we are, we look at what the brand stands for and then execute to fit that purpose. You've been in some of most of our executions. And yes, this um Saturday, you chance into the red room that we're creating for Telesell. Yeah. And we have to bring from ground up, you know, and it's gone through faces Red Room, because we're the first partner to start it some some 30 years back. Yes.

SPEAKER_00 56:36

I always said Red Room is my favorite part at the time.

SPEAKER_01 56:40

And you know, with the likes of Mariam Kalim, who will challenge you, Eric Ogos, Cynthia Toto. But we have to make sure that we're executing to the standard, not because we're a local agency, but the legendary if you brought somebody from anywhere they were executed. And those tenants have become core in our doing. You know, we say don't work to time, work to task.

SPEAKER_00 56:56

Okay.

SPEAKER_01 56:57

If the task is that they want an E-Lister, how do we become an Airlista? Okay, then don't work to your capacity, work to the solution. Okay. Your capacity is that you are Ghanaian, you have limited vendors, you have limited fabricators. But the solution is a global answer. Work to the solution. Okay. So these values have been core in where we want to get to. So the clients we've met, supportive across the board, challenging us, the people within who pick the challenge and make sure that we are going. And then the vision from above that is always replenished to make sure that you're having innovative ideas that helps you to win have our core to doing this. And so I think um I is sometimes I forget some of the clients you are mentioning that, you know, because they become part of us in our everyday doing. Yeah. But the fact that if you mentioned to I say Ghana Club, 100 businesses, you say that almost 70% of them, we work with them, is something that's that's that's of key pride. And the fact that over the years, we are still shown up at very key places, you know, are very core. And again, when you build a network of people who are going to other places, they can take you along, you know. Had a chance to do global citizen, you know, as the on-ground partner doing and signing people onto the platform. Because I've worked with Alvin and he had the opportunity and he's opening it up. Had a chance to do Afro Nation because I've worked with Rudy. Yeah, and Rudy is linking you up in that direction, you know. So I think that it's come back to the people. Okay, as you interact, it's a good thing. You have to make sure that they are taking you to the right places because the interaction you have with them becomes cool at a point in time and empathy.

SPEAKER_00 58:35

Okay.

SPEAKER_01 58:36

Dealing with people in the right way, like you told in a very humble way. I'll never I'll never shy the way to give a support to a brother who's in the business, you know. And I'm sure for me and lengths, it goes back to Sunyane and doing anniversary and all those things. Yeah, if Richie, you had a chance and um any of the global janks say that I want somebody to do you say, ah, yeah, that's we beat you. So I think those things are very cool. Sometimes, as founders, we build this fight mentality of fighting around people who are coming to our space and becoming negative and being all those elements. But I think that it's so big a market. I keep on telling people that it's so big. So if you don't think that I think Africa, 1.3 billion people, how many do you want to become successful? That you'll find somebody who's coming for part of your bread. You'll still have people biting you on the journey, but it's part of the journey.

SPEAKER_00 59:26

You know, somebody asked me, I'm actually going to respond to this comment. The person asked me, I haven't had time, I want to sit down. Okay, they asked me a question that they want to understand pan-Africaners that why do we feel Africa will benefit if we are like one body? And you just said it right there. You see, when I feel like I am I have a product and I'm limited to 32 million people. Sometimes if you're even limited to 4 million in Accra, then it limits your thinking. Everything when you know you have 1.3 billion people who you have access to, it opens up your mind.

SPEAKER_01 1:00:02

Perfect. Our biggest gigs are outside of the continent, outside of this country.

SPEAKER_00 1:00:09

Okay.

SPEAKER_01 1:00:10

You you you you understand because some of them are growing economy. So when you go in there, first move advantage, you have the best businesses, you have the best opportunities. If you go to some markets like Nigeria, huge population, one PO might be most 10 POs put together in Ghana. If you go to Kenya, advance, you learn the best of knowledge. If you go to DRC, 75 million people, francophone, very lifestyle driven. Yeah, get an opportunity from there. If you go to Zambia, vast land, vast land. Opportunity to go and do something new there. So I think for me, closing your eyes to the borders will prevent you from being fighting in your territory.

SPEAKER_00 1:00:51

Okay, let's talk about one thing that has killed so many companies. Cash flow. Yeah, you know, a lot of companies during the scale up process need to invest a lot and it limits the cash flow. What principles have you been able to put together to prevent that from happening?

SPEAKER_01 1:01:08

I I'm very slow to do KPS investment, capital investment, right? Because it can lock up your funds. Yeah. Sometimes we come and say, Oh, Gizo, why don't we have uh 10 cars for the teams? Why don't we have uh thousand screens and rigs and those ones? And it sounds very tempting, but if you if you if you don't do your math well, you will lock up your money in KPEX. Okay, and you know how you need to do which is the OPEX, operational expenses. You know, so um I I I am very slow in doing capital expenditure until I can see the lifestyle of the this one will pay for itself, you know, because there are a lot of hidden costs around doing capital expenditure. Yeah. So you start renting transit for a while, two, three, oh no, let me go and buy. But when you buy, start talking about storage, how you move to location, those who mount it, those to the crew, and all those hidden costs can start coming into your face. And so I am very my one of my advice is that don't be in the hire to do capital expenditure.

SPEAKER_00 1:02:12

Okay.

SPEAKER_01 1:02:13

Giant brands take a lot of time. Um, I don't know, I'm allowed. I mean, I know MT has to be in an office until they were 254, they moved into their place at Ridge, their new the head office, right? They were in that shared building with Fidelity around the rich area. And then one of them is in the first place. You know, and can look around. All the brands are doing very well. They don't invest, they don't they'll you rent, you make it suit you, but you don't put a huge amount in building a structure. Yeah, one of the people that I admire most in the Russell had a structure when it was 25 years. Yeah, you know, for a long time I was operating in a smaller place at Salam Down. So it took me 25 years to put up a building. And those learnings that building is what he's looking for. Those learnings, they are silent, but you have to keep it. Okay. In every market we are in in Africa, we have not invested in any physical structure in terms of office space.

SPEAKER_00 1:03:09

Okay.

SPEAKER_01 1:03:10

We know the time will come when the plaza will come up, it will be magnificent, but we are not in a hurry to get there. So you maintain the cash flow. You maintain the cash flow. What you can, like I keep on saying, what you can pay for to rent, rent it.

SPEAKER_02 1:03:25

Okay.

SPEAKER_01 1:03:25

There's so many hidden costs in buying. We've bought cars that we thought was a breakthrough, they become a breakdown. You know? So for tools of trade, yes, there are those that are very functional. Yeah. That you need to have them. But if anything that you are not in the in the position to, because once you buy a building, there's maintenance, there's security, there's so many things that come with it that you might not be prepared. Property tax. Property tax, you have to get the generator to fix in there. When it's breaking this, you have to pay for it, everything. So I'll say that cash flow, one of the biggest evils of the cash flow is KPEX. Okay. New brand and go and buy the place. Or you go and inspect the place so much with things that it affects your everyday operation. Everyday operation is like air. Once you can breathe, you can always live. There's always hope. Yeah. And so don't stop that blood that flows in your in your body. Okay. Don't cut the blood to your brain. Because that's what operational expense that's happening to you. So always make sure that you are liquid enough. Don't be shy to rent. Don't be shy to go and take from somewhere and pay for it. When the time is due and you have a very safe good saving culture, you can start investing in capests that doesn't affect your cash flow. It's so much tempting for you to go and buy things. As soon as people go and buy office space and it's empty. Yeah. Or they bought to buy a car because they started having some delivery motorbike. Yeah. And they invested in 10 motorbikes because they started getting some one or two.

SPEAKER_00 1:04:48

And then eight are parked.

SPEAKER_01 1:04:49

And then eight are parked, and the driver is also using to do one by himself. Yeah. And your capital is going down. So I would say that one of the first things that is to watch Capex. Don't invest too much early in Capex with your operational expenses. You rather do Capex if you have an investor bring you money that doesn't affect your cash flow, or you know that this item, I have gotten a contract that says that we want something for a year. So for that one, the fan can pay for a year. You are doing it five times in a week. That's 52 weeks times five. Yeah. It's over 250, 2500 days. Right? Every day you rent a van is 1000, 8200. If I buy it, it's 200,000. Through that project, then I can pay that asset. Yeah. And I add a driver cost, I add full, and it's safe. And therefore you can invest in that KPEX. So don't shy away from it, but do your calculations very well.

SPEAKER_00 1:05:37

You know, I think it's a it's a psychological thing. Yeah. You know, it's like a poor man who has made plenty of money. Right now, at home, they will buy conflicts 20. Yeah, yeah. You know, T row, plenty, because when they were young, they couldn't aff afford it.

SPEAKER_01 1:05:53

So now they want to have it in the city. Exactly.

SPEAKER_00 1:05:55

So I think it happens to founders too, because when you were starting out, you know. You suffered to be able to buy this machine. You couldn't afford a printer. You couldn't afford this.

SPEAKER_01 1:06:06

So all of a sudden, you feel like you should equip yourself everything and people.

SPEAKER_00 1:06:09

And before you realize your capacity is especially when maybe you are starting up a second branch.

SPEAKER_01 1:06:16

You want to go and do everything like perfectism. I don't want to start the way the other one started. But it's a reason why the other one did well. Yeah. Because you were very meticulous in your startup. Exactly. You didn't just invest, you even painted at over a period of time. You know, so I think we are very right in saying that be careful about capital expenditure. It has a propensity to lock down your your operational expenses and it will affect your cash flow. Yeah. Second thing is about the fact that we ignore doing the profitability of a project.

SPEAKER_02 1:06:45

Okay.

SPEAKER_01 1:06:45

Most business people go into business, they do, they do, and they come and look at how much profit have I made. We will not step out without knowing what we are making for every project. Okay. Or we are not going. For every project we undertake, we have to know what is the margins on that project. And how do we safeguard that margin because revenue is not your money.

SPEAKER_00 1:07:08

Yeah. I think it's a that's a very big lesson that most people need to understand.

SPEAKER_01 1:07:12

You can make revenue of let's just gonna see this. 30 million, 40 million a year. Yeah, that's what one of our branches can make. But it's no picture of what your profit is your profit is. Your your direct costs, your overheads, you might end up if you are doing business around 20, 15, sometimes 10% profit. Yeah, you know, and so that 30 million has now become 3 million or 2 million. If you have shareholders, you're going to pay shareholder dividends and you're going to invest in the following year. So most of the time, people focus on their revenue over their net profit. Yeah. Or their net revenue.

SPEAKER_00 1:07:52

You hear a lot of founders saying we are making 10 million a year, we are making 50 million a year, but how much profit are you making?

SPEAKER_01 1:08:00

And so you can say that if somebody, oh, I've done a job of four million, if I'm going to spend on blah blah blah. And you're not taking care of all the cost expenses in your business. Yeah. Your direct costs, your indirect, which include the utilities, the logistics, the people, yeah, and somewhere, some some patent that you have to pay for, or you're using some somebody's name or somebody's tool. So the ability to know that before I step out, how much I'm making from this project, and how do I safeguard that margin is fundamental to cash flow. You know, and if you downplay this, you will never see where I've not seen where my money is going. I've been doing this job, I'm making money, but I can't see it. You're making revenue. You are not revenue is taking this to go and sell, buy it for four cities, go and sell it for 4.2, and think that the 4.2 is your money. Yeah, but the four is the point two that is supposed to now become go and buy the next one. Because when you go next time, they might be higher than the four cities. Exactly. You know, so I think differentiate between net profit from revenue is very, very important. As make sure you keep cash flow. But what has kept us very key is that we've not done B2C, it's not really service to any business to a consumer per person. True. We do business to business. Yeah, there's been so much temptation. Why are you not doing weddings? Why are you not doing parties? Why are you not doing funeral? I think it's a very lucrative area. But if you don't have the skill to collect your money from individuals, you go and lock up fans to do something, they are not paying you, and you're in trouble.

SPEAKER_00 1:09:34

100%. Make that some people owe me as I'm saying.

SPEAKER_01 1:09:37

Yeah, they will everybody everybody owes everybody. So uh so we have we've made that for the first 15 years, we'll stick to business to business. Okay, because the level of uh probably for them to pay you is very high, and these are blue chip businesses, yeah. So I can tell you that we have less than two percent of bad debts in our business. That's very good. Because for business to business, once you deliver, you are most certain they are going to pay you. You know, so first 15 strategy is B2B. We might go to B2C when we have iron out how we can take money from people, okay, how we can make people pay for the service without having issues. So for those who do business to consumers, especially for those who do credit sales, you have to be very careful.

SPEAKER_00 1:10:20

Hey, very careful because you can look out has income.

SPEAKER_01 1:10:24

I can see people planning very good wedding for people. Yeah. And after the marriage is even collapsing after one week, how much more you that went to do the wedding? You know, how you want to get your money from the man or from the woman? You know, so I think it's a very core thing that will affect cash flow. First of all, be careful about capital expenditure, buying assets to be careful about who you are doing business for, B2B. If you are not sure about how to call it, try and get business to business because business are likely to pay. And then, like I said, Ted, differentiate the money that comes to you. There's billing, there's revenue, there's net revenue, there's gross profit, and there's net profit. And for every activity you do, for this podcast you are recording, we have to know what is the net profit on this podcast. Oh, this is the network because of this equipment, charity, charity. You have to know whether it's a business growth strategy. That have nothing in bottom line. I mean you know, it's goodwill. It is goodwill. You are building something, yeah.

SPEAKER_00 1:11:22

So at every point in time, every activity until of course BTL decides to be a partner.

SPEAKER_01 1:11:28

Mastermind and bring sponsors, thank you, which I'm going to do because we have a mantra to grow this together, and then we'll take it to the next level.

SPEAKER_00 1:11:34

Can you guys hear the money hitting my account? You have too much money already. I was still hey, relax for me, relax for me. I'm still a small boy, yeah.

SPEAKER_01 1:11:43

Nearing already, then yeah, you have to do a 40 party because you know you do 40 birthday parties, you know, you're also going to do one for yourself.

SPEAKER_00 1:11:51

I am the party planner, not the party owner. We hear you. And me, I've tried it, but I don't know how you do it because you've perfected it. Look, I I wrote them down. Let me check. You are running BTL. Yes, you have an AI company, a creative agency, you do festivals, plenty. You have a festivals platform, you have a talent management firm, a media station, and a farm. What's the crime? Like, how are you actually being able to hold all this together without going crazy? Look, some people cannot even run half a business.

SPEAKER_01 1:12:36

First is grace. I think we we downplay some elements, but you you I think I like I said I'm a I'm a faith-driven person. I think Greece plays a very key role. But most at least my partner.

SPEAKER_00 1:12:49

Okay.

SPEAKER_01 1:12:49

I think I have a very understanding wife who has allowed me to do more than a man supposed to do. Right? Um, I think there's opportunity costs, and I keep on telling people that you have to make a decision at this point. That it is an up, you have 24 hours. You cannot like going to the childbirth scenario. Yeah, your company allows you to go on that maternity leave. If they don't allow you, you cannot raise a child.

SPEAKER_00 1:13:19

Sure.

SPEAKER_01 1:13:19

Because your mother cannot breastfeed your child. So the same way, you need a partner who appreciates what you are doing and is supportive and spiritual and supports you to get to what you are going to, right? And so I think for me, I see a lot of this few things you are mentioning, even though some of them I can dispute them. You cannot dispute them. There's nothing in the public space. So it's supposed to be careful because it's it's to I I think I have a I have a very, very supportive uh partner, um Lois, who's been tremendous over the last um um 16 years that we've been together, is it's it's been a strong backbone. You know, I say that if you want to raise business, raise a family, and develop yourself, something you have to give something. Yeah, hardly can all of them happen. Yeah, hardly can all of them happen. So for me, I think it's great from above, but great to let you find a partner that will support that journey, right? And also for the partners I have around, like I mentioned to you, the the the the Samin Dorogis, the Eloy Amandis, yeah, and then the staff who have stuck with us. A lot of them Kesta, Daryl, Kek, Gloria, Pearl, Michael, there are a lot of them, Majid, that can never stop mentioning their name because they've been called to the journey. Yeah, and then above, because I can say above, I have people that I can go and talk to. I mentioned Christiana, who is a Ghanaian, who stays in Kenya, an entrepreneur I pick from, Maxwell Dodd, you know, um Robert, Temple Advisors. So you are listening around, you have a partner who keeps you, gives you a chance to do what you have to do. You have partners who understand that it's uh it's a teamwork and they have to go together. You have team members who stick with you throughout the journey. So I think a lot of things have to be right. And maybe I'm privileged enough that I got all these things, not all of them right, because some of the people are stuff, might not stay with you, they might even come against you, you might have a partner who might not support you, might have um different things that might go against you. But I think that grace makes sure that you it draws you to the right places to get the right resources because what divine has given you to feed many, you need a lot of things to be right for people to feed them. Right, feed them, you know, and therefore always aligning to where the source came from to direct you is very important. Selecting a partner is not as it's not a physical activity, yeah. It's not it's not no no no, it takes more, and even I mean, it it goes beyond family, it is finding the people, and I mean Richie, I keep on saying that I'm so happy you found a partner to grow this vision, yeah, because it can grow worry. You will grow worrying without the growing partner at a point in time, somebody can go and fall on for growth. I said, if I ever get a partner at a big level, I'm going for their network, I'm going for their structure. No, more than anything else. Yeah. That they have good that they can be able to do a business for 125 years. Because, like I told you when I was coming to this industry, I said, why are we doing business for only foreigners? We have to build Ghana business that will survive generations. Yeah. One of the reasons I've never done this interview is that I knew that if you don't think you start sharing the lamp light with your business. And therefore, when you are not there, in terms of physical presence, yeah, they feel like the business cannot go on. So I made an intentional decision. You know, I have faced that problem. Yes, but because you have you were the least service render, yes, you could not hide. Yes, you're right. We are doing a public service, so people don't know who's there. If you don't do the beat, they will not sing. I was privileged enough that the service was being it was a B2B2C. Yeah, true. So I ran into a business and the consumer never knew us. Yeah, they don't care, they knew nestly, they knew the idea. As long as the job is exactly they were fine. Yeah, so I was intentional to stay behind the scenes to make sure that the brand became popular than me. Yeah, and I think, like you said, BTS people know uh Gizo and that kind of thing, or Eloy or Sam. We've we've stayed at the backbenching for a long time. I'm only granted this for the first time in 15 years because I feel give me my flowers. Do you know what the big deal of this is? Look at this one. Now I feel now is the time to make more impact. Yeah, right. Now the time to help people to avoid the mistake I did or we did when we're growing. We've done some very big mistakes, you know. I have some very spectacular feelings. Tell me some, tell me some. Oh no, we've done. I mean, uh, one of our first minutes was what uh um um Washing Bay, and that investment went just like that. You know, you go and the water is pumping from everywhere, water bill is coming, the water was the same. And it went, we are going to some market that we have had to withdraw. Okay, like we went to Cameroon, realized that it's francophone, there are some inhibitions there. Yeah, I remember I had to find a way to leave the airport because it was not that smooth, you know, because we didn't do market research, we're just happy go lucky. Yeah, this opportunity comes, we jump at it. We don't regret, but also it comes with repercussions.

SPEAKER_00 1:18:17

You know, that's the problem with organic. Yeah, the best thing about organic is the fact that you can grow exponentially, yeah. But while growing, too, there's not a template. So you are just you're just growing. Uh-huh.

SPEAKER_01 1:18:29

Somebody come and point you and say that yo, now take your time and go to the right way. So I think, Richie, for me, um, one of the key things that has kept us going, that has that we are we are growing these enterprises, we are starting new ones. Now we have like a digital unit, a media unit, a tech unit, an AI unit, the fact that we've never taken the job for granted.

SPEAKER_02 1:18:53

Okay.

SPEAKER_01 1:18:54

And I say that there's so much possibility that you might outgrow your vision. We started as BTL, activations, tenth activations, rose shows, and I have grown out of it. Okay. And there's so much that you I will grow out of it, the business will grow out of it. But the ability to follow the business stay humble and still do because the clients still want the tenth activation.

SPEAKER_00 1:19:16

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 1:19:16

The clients still want a road show. But ability to grow other things to target other channels.

SPEAKER_00 1:19:21

Okay.

SPEAKER_01 1:19:21

It's where the challenge is. You don't take care, you move your business because you have grown out of it away. And therefore, you will not be servicing them again. And because you didn't start from the new area, you never become a king there. So there are already people who are they are sharing the area. So you become like an option, a plan B. But the wisdom and the uh privilege to let BTL below the line become a humble and so stay as a last small provider. Yeah. Let benchmark become a lifestyle provider, let plugin become a digital provider and media provider, let tech become a new, and then everybody stayed in their area. It's what our people that they don't stop doing.

SPEAKER_00 1:20:00

Okay.

SPEAKER_01 1:20:01

Because the market always needs what your vision was 10 years ago. But as a person, I have grown out of it. Yeah. But I didn't take the business as I was growing away.

SPEAKER_00 1:20:09

So as the founder evolves, the business doesn't need to evolve. Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 1:20:13

The founder can do more different things, but make sure that the foundation is kept. You know, and you can see it across all the brand of that world. They'll do a Google Plus for a new set of people. Yeah. They will do an upgrade, but they don't leave the foundation upon which the solution was built. Because if you remember trying to go back to their old phones recently, you know, but it was too late. So I just think that as entrepreneurs, as we grow, you might start by selling shoes and becoming and now you start selling other things that include cars. If you can still have a way that your shoe company is kept because it becomes a referral to other things. Okay. Most of the growth of everything we are doing was because BT was doing well. Yeah. So because now beyond the line is able to do a lot of things, then the goodwill grows to the other enterprises. So if you open up plugin, are you the same people? Then you can take this and do. That's why all of a sudden we have about 20 clients at plugin. Yeah. Come on, that's under three years.

SPEAKER_00 1:21:15

Because, like, oh, the same people. The good will still there.

SPEAKER_01 1:21:18

You can still see us a signpost. Yeah. And take it there. That's why the tech business is getting a lot of development for platforms because it can refer to this mother company. If we have moved the mother company, you couldn't appoint anybody anything to anything in the house. You know, and that's how if you go to chieftensey, they point to your home to make you a chief. You can't, if you mess up your home, you can never become a chief. True. So we have to keep the fact that what's let you become that established platform, you can grow out of it. But if you have any way that you can, just make sure that you keep it at that level. And again, that's why people can keep it. If not, you are better off closing it up because they become a negative dent on your growth.

SPEAKER_00 1:21:54

They kill the brand.

SPEAKER_01 1:21:55

They kill the other ones as well. Yeah. So if you can't have anybody to keep it, you have to let it go. But make sure that that is you have to do more in your new space, but you didn't spend your core time growing the new space. Yeah. Right? So you have to go hard. You have to go hard on the new space. Because you won't be privileged enough to have people keeping the old one going. Yeah. So that when we're 10 years and I have to step out to go and do um plug-in and do the tech businesses, we're pleased to have a loyal and some keeping the old one going. If you don't have that privilege, you must just it become so negative that it affects the new ones you are doing because you're as good as your last job. You know, so all those things play a role in how you're able to multiply the effect. And I think that's what has become a key player.

SPEAKER_00 1:22:40

I'm following you. Hey, look at you. I'm following you. I need you to do one thing for me. I always have everyone do this. I want you to look into the camera there. That's your camera. And imagine that you could drop one idea, one mindset shift that can help the person who's watching you right now scale up their mind and truly become a mastermind. What's that one thing?

SPEAKER_01 1:23:01

Don't work to your capacity. Work to the solution. The world is looking for solutions. Your capacity is Ghana, it's Accra, it's your school, it's your strength, it's your weakness. You can't speak well, you can't speak French. Don't work to your capacity. Sometimes we say that I've done everything I could do. But don't do everything you could do. Do everything that the solution is looking for. I've gonna bring Kenyans because Kenyan brands are coming to Ghana a lot. Recently, you can see a lot of francophone brands coming. Canel, um, telescale, um, um, castell. You have to start looking for the French people to come. The L's. The L's. And they're all francophone. Yeah. You have to start looking for francophone people into your team. Yeah. Work to our strength, work within Ghana. So don't work to your strength. It might not be enough to take work. Work to the solution. And that's where you have to look at the other verses around you to get your solution. Your strength, your car might not be able to go to Kumase, but you might have to go and look for a car that you will take to go to Kumase if that is where the solution is. Okay. So my biggest advice don't work to your strength. Work to the strength. Work to the solution. Your strength might not be enough to take you to the pinnacle of what you want to get to. Work to the solution. And that will include that. You're looking out of the way, think out of the box to get a solution. And my other golden rule: don't give shares to what you can pay for. Always give shares to what money cannot buy.

SPEAKER_00 1:24:22

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 1:24:24

Please, can I have a party later? That'll be my intent to interview. Oh, I'll be honored and talk about the awesome thing you have done. You know, you speak, and I highly, I mean, I think whenever I get a chance to speak, because you know I've been I've understood the journey from, and if you allow me, from easy assembl I've always, whenever that new talent comes, yeah, I come and say the way you turn things around, you know, for contently new artists of the year, that's innovation. You know, we did it in businesses, you did it in talents. Yeah, everyone was an innovation brand. Yeah, you know, because an artist is a business. Yes, and so everybody you you created them, and the challenges that we I mean we saw in the industry, not accepting it was like a side thing. And so I see it and I always say that this is remarkable. And you're able to bring people together, you know, during your anniversary, you're doing all this, get together, and everybody shows up.

SPEAKER_00 1:25:10

Thank you.

SPEAKER_01 1:25:10

And I'm saying that this thing relaxed this thing that you do is it's in part of our world, it's not paid for. Yeah, it's necessary. Unfortunately, but to get people across the spectrum wanting to be part of something you are doing doesn't come easy. Yeah. At all. It doesn't come easy at all, you know. And I've go into rooms doing a pitch, and they say, Oh, let's talk to learning to do this sick thing for us. Let's talk. I mean, I'm sure sometime two years ago you're talking about the time of the catalogue of things you've done for brands. So you've played a very key role in the space, but more importantly, I've stayed relevant till now. It is not easy to be relevant. Okay, like it takes so much to be relevant. I've seen Customer Clow. I'm not telling you, I've seen Bola, I've seen, and I see you mentioning that line. I see that it takes so much difficulty in our time where we're voting on the on the on that free line because we signed up. I mean, Sami, you know, that's first one to go to Summing to MTN and Tony. One of the first commercial sponsorship, yeah. I think that was was really it's your time to stay and all those ones. So and I see you come through it and still be relevant at that time. Come here to this wild studio, still in the space, but growing you in the space. Yeah, I I I keep on telling people, like, I will run this name because it's you. Oh, Charlie. You know, and I'm not because I I'm not no, because I just don't have what it takes. I'm I don't talk well. I'm a fast talker.

SPEAKER_00 1:26:26

Please, please, please.

SPEAKER_01 1:26:27

We'll do an episode where you are doing the and all that one. So I think I I mean, and to move this into a podcast, yeah, you know, it's something that I've dreamed for like I've never been able to do. Let's do it. But the fact that you this is where the idea is. No, I think you are a doer. I can't tell that you create, like you are born to create. Yeah, creation is comes to you so easily. I enjoy it. Yeah, you enjoy it, and and and it's grace. You know, I said you're a prophet in this space. Yeah, there's so many prophets. There's profits in business, there's profits in in creation. You don't know that I let them do this way to go this way. You know, I saw people have worked with Beryl, come and sit here, talk to them. And I know Beryl, just like me, want to always be behind the scenes, but we also like if it's rich, let me come and do it.

SPEAKER_00 1:27:05

No, sometimes when people say yes, like I can send a message, the person say yes, and I'm Are you sure?

SPEAKER_01 1:27:10

Yeah, I'm not you know we are planning this under 48 hours, right? This conversation because it's you, yeah.

SPEAKER_00 1:27:15

So I'm not honestly lucky, I was afraid you won't come.

SPEAKER_01 1:27:18

I'm surprised if I didn't come. I was afraid I won't come.

SPEAKER_00 1:27:22

So when I was in in there and then they said you have a visitor.

SPEAKER_01 1:27:27

Yeah, and I think yeah, even me, I was afraid I won't come because again, you've always been at the back banks, and there are a lot of things pulling in, as not for anything because just you put a hand a lot of things, right? Yeah, and sometimes you wonder what I might have done to myself. Because you know it is it is it is the way it's hard to get this man on the phone. Hey no, my phone has limited phone. When it received some, I don't know automatically. But Rich, I learned something, and I think I'll say that. I have to know your weakness. Yeah, it took me almost I've been doing I've done this from what 2004 now. It's what 22 years officially, where I That one of things that I can't double time. Okay. I can't do two things at the same time. You know? Like if I'm doing something, so focus fully then work and take a phone call.

SPEAKER_00 1:28:10

Okay.

SPEAKER_01 1:28:11

Because I have a very short attention span.

SPEAKER_00 1:28:13

Yeah. But they say multitasking is the ability to the ability to do many things poorly.

SPEAKER_01 1:28:20

Ah, well, that's a good one. So when I was doing my math, I had to stop when I was doing work. Yeah. I stopped for a long time to go and finish only two years ago. How long I stopped, it's going to wow you. But because I realized that we have to know what our weaknesses are. Yeah. To be able to go and build the new things, I have to let Eloy and some as certain say champion this. Yeah, let me go and do this. Sometimes we take up things that uh we don't know how we can because an entrepreneur, founder, you want to feel like you're a captain planet. Yeah, like you can solve every issues. But we are very vulnerable. I've realized that no, I can't do a lot of stuff at the same time. So if I don't pick a phone call because the work I'm doing, if I stop to the phone call, I cannot come back. I have a very short assessment span. So we we and that's why you say that we have never stopped learning. Like, I don't think we have achieved 50% of where they're supposed to go.

SPEAKER_02 1:29:12

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 1:29:13

The vision for this is to enter into uh North America. We are doing quite a lot of things around the World Cup, which is a penetration. Started by testing with um parting the pack together with um coaches, you know that one. Okay. We've talked about this in Europe, yeah, and then also in Asia. So the vision is that eventually come 2035, we'll become among the top three globally. And we are working strongly towards this one. The first feel was that by 2018 we'll become the best in Ghana, among the biggest, by 2025 in Africa, and then by 35 we go global, and we are speaking to that vision. It doesn't come easy.

SPEAKER_00 1:29:47

Like I told you, it takes a lot of dedication, failure, and a lot of failures.

SPEAKER_01 1:29:50

Yeah, but we are inspired by what others have done. We are inspired that we don't have an excuse again. Yeah, we had excuse appearance. Didn't there was no internet, we didn't come to Accra. Now we can see now we can see everything.

SPEAKER_00 1:30:05

Now somebody's made 830 billion.

SPEAKER_01 1:30:07

Yes, so you have no open um um uh an e-commerce platform, yeah, you're compete against Amazon, yes, your computer against Jumia, against uh uh um whatever it is. So today I'm going to let out a little secret. Tell me.

SPEAKER_00 1:30:21

So you see, I've been trying to solve um the movie industry problems, right? I've been trying to find a solution for it, and I realized one of the solutions was the fact that we didn't have a platform that could serve Africa. Yeah, so I worked for years and I built the platform and it had all the solutions, it's perfect for what we are going to do. Then we were getting ready to launch, and I told everybody we should stop. Because I realized something we are competing with Netflix, we are competing with Apple TV, yeah, we are competing with like we're competing with everything. Yeah, because even if I'm saying I'm targeting Africans, I am targeting an African who is on Netflix and convincing them to come into you. Thank you.

SPEAKER_01 1:31:09

You're not competing against Ghana.

SPEAKER_00 1:31:11

Yes, it's not like the days where it's like, oh, GTV is competing against Tv3.

SPEAKER_01 1:31:15

No, now Tv3 is competing against Super Sports, thank you against anything on Amazon TV, yeah, Amazon Stick. Yes, it's in the market, so people have access to it. So we we have no excuse why we didn't take this in the next level. Yeah, our kids will ask us questions.

SPEAKER_00 1:31:32

Why is this man doing this and you could not do this?

SPEAKER_01 1:31:35

And I told my kids I was coming for this interview. Are you sure when it comes out it'll be good enough? Oh, it will be good. Will it be good after what they're giving us names in Reagan or whatever they did? So they're comparing me to what entrepreneurs are doing in other in other markets, yeah. You know, so I I think we have to be intentional about this growth. Yeah, for me, what keeps me awake every evening, every night? What makes me sleep at 12 and wake up at 3 is the fact that I'm scared about the person who has prayed for a breakthrough because of my laziness, it doesn't get a breakthrough. It scares me. Because my laziness because you overslept. It doesn't come to pass. I cannot be responsible for that one. It scares me. I know how many months are connected to this vision, you know. The wage bill at the end of the month, yeah, it's scary. And I know if you are if you are not careful, if you don't seek for divine grace, if you don't get the right partners and the right partner, all those people might go hungry. Yeah, you know, and it's going to take them a lot of time to go and look for another opportunity. So get the point that you don't live for yourself in the life. I talked about the mother, you don't live for yourself for your children, yeah. And so that's that's that fear is a key catalyst for everything that we do.

SPEAKER_00 1:32:58

And that shows me why you will continue to succeed on even a bigger scale. Because I always say the person who takes responsibility for many is blessed by the universe.

SPEAKER_01 1:33:09

I agree. I think I think I think I think it's well put. And you will never know until you get there. Yeah. I mean, you realize that every money is to set up another country, you could have bought a new house. True. You could have bought a new car. But before you realize, you've pushed that money to go set up another market, that you don't even know how it will come out. Yeah. That's when you know that the vision is bigger than your interest. I think money found a big thing, we all do business. But the point is I realize that money is no more the reason. But how many people are connected? And you just did that. If you pick your today's what um middle of the month, in two weeks' time, a salary man. Hey, when you see what you have to do, you say that this is more than you. And people are waiting to get that one to go and pay their school fees. You know, we have a lot of temporal staff we work with, the promoters, brand ambassadors. And every year, over 5,000 pass through our hands.

SPEAKER_02 1:34:02

Wow.

SPEAKER_01 1:34:02

Some of them say, Don't pay me now, pay me when I'm going to school. So keep my money when I work. You know, I've seen vendors who started small, we're giving them a job, and now they have multiple businesses and they have family. So the impact that we make, we cannot take it for granted.

SPEAKER_02 1:34:18

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 1:34:18

You know, this studio employs a lot of people. People who come here, I see you do things, connected to a lot of things. And the woman who sells down here, I saw her because the office used to be down here. And now she's very big because people are buying from her. Yeah. When you live here, it's that her business will come down.

SPEAKER_00 1:34:32

Yeah. Those things scare me. Gizo, thank you, thank you so much. I know the way I've enjoyed the interview. Everybody watching this has really enjoyed it. We will start your own podcast. Look, we're mentioning it here first. We will start your podcast because you have a lot to share to the world. I want to personally thank you for what you've done for me and what you're doing for so many. Any way I can support for your dream to become even bigger than you imagined, I'm always here.

SPEAKER_01 1:34:57

And thank you to um Richie for this platform. Like I said before, thank you to a lot of people who have come together to ensure that this we are where we are. I want to talk first of all, my wife Lois, and the family um for being supportive, even to extend it to my my in-laws and my brothers and sisters, very, very supportive. Um, you didn't ask me how I started my business with the first capital because it'll be another viral thing to fight about. Was it one meeting? But my mother had a role to play in it. Her pension money had a role to play in it. Oh wow. Was asking me the check to come and pay in her account in GCB in Accra, and it didn't end up in her account. We had to go and do a project. So that's by the by. But I think very grateful, and then often to my partners, Aloy Amande, Samon Jaroge, been called to the vision, has been soldiers to the core. So I'm very grateful to them and to the staff who are stuck with us for all these years. I mentioned their names. I mean, Daryl, Kesta, Kek, Gloria, Michael, um, and and many of us Majid and many other spell who are across the continent. And we have staff across. So Zambia, DRC, Kenya, Liberia, Nigeria, Ghana, everywhere, who continuously wake up to ensure that the vision is coming to play. Yeah, it does it takes a lot. To think that a Ghana, a Ghana-born vision, a birth Ghana vision that is going to Africa, you commit to that vision, you know, it takes a lot. And obviously, to people like you, you know, it's I have a very strong supposed time in the industry.

SPEAKER_00 1:36:22

I really hope this conversation has brought you one step closer to being the mastermind that I know you are destined to. Thank you for watching this episode. Now, the Mastermind's dream is about building a community of people who have the right mindset and are ready to take their success into their own hands. So do me this wonderful favor subscribe and share with anybody out there who you believe you want to see have the right mindset to succeed so that together we can all become the masterminds we deserve to be.