Beth's Story

Hello, I’m Stacy, the host of Mothers, Lies and DNA Surprises Podcast. Thank you for being here.  Today I am sharing Beth’s story and our conversation!  

Beth will share how dark her emotions got early in her discovery so this is a trigger warning for anyone who struggles with depression, suicidal thoughts or mental health 

If you or someone you know is struggling or in crisis there is free, confidential help available 24/7 by calling or texting 988 or chatting on line at 988lifeline.org.  

As Beth shares, and so many I hear from, her Mother held her to a higher standard throughout her life and while growing up her mother would preach not to lie or else, yet those same mothers held the biggest lie!

Beth will share that it wasn’t the affair that hurt, it’s the lifetime of lying about who her father was. 

These secrets protects them, not us, the children, the innocent children. Beth has lived her life putting herself in other people’s shoes and she can’t make this ok, she is stuck.  Working towards moving forward and forgiving but she’s not there yet.

Beth gave some great advice in our conversation, she talks about allowing yourself the “whoa is me days”, room to cry, grieve, ask for help and so importantly giving yourself permission to say “NO”.

Thank you Beth for your vulnerability, honesty and for sharing your story with us!

If you would like to reach out to Beth email me at mothersliesanddnasurprises@gmail.com and put Beth's Story in the subject line and I will share your message with her.  Thank you!

Music is "Drown in your Lies" by NoxAwake via Pixabay  

Transcript

SPEAKER_02 0:17

Hello, I'm Stacey, the host of Mother's Lies and DNA Surprises Podcast. Thank you for being here. Today I am sharing Beth's story for the first time and our conversation that we had. Beth will share how dark her emotions got early in her discovery, so this is a trigger warning for anyone who struggles with depression, suicidal thoughts, or mental health. If you or someone you know are struggling or in crisis, there is free confidential help available 24-7 by calling or texting 988 or chatting online at 988lifeline.org. As Beth shares, and so many I hear from, her mother held her to a higher standard throughout her life. And while growing up, her mother would preach not to lie or else. Yet, those same mothers held the biggest lie. Beth will share that it wasn't the affair that hurt. It's the lifetime of lying about who her father was. These secrets protect them, not us, the children, the innocent children. Beth has lived her life putting herself in other people's shoes, and she can't make this okay. She is stuck. She's working towards moving forward and forgiving, but she's not there yet. Beth gave some great advice in our conversation. She talks about allowing herself the woe is me kind of days, giving herself room to cry, grieve, ask for help, and so importantly, giving herself permission to say no. Thank you, Beth, for your vulnerability, your honesty, and for sharing your story with us. Well, welcome, Beth. I want to thank you so much for being here and sharing your story with us and sharing your NPE story for the first time. I'm honored to have you here. So tell me first about your DNA surprise, how you found out, what it's been like since you've learned your truth.

SPEAKER_03 2:14

Okay, thank you for having me on, Stacy. I I appreciate the chance to kind of talk about this and have it in some ways be real and be normal. Well, we got to go all the way back to 2019. For Christmas, I bought my kids 23andMe kits just because I thought it would be fun. And they took their, they did theirs. I didn't buy one for myself, and they did theirs and got their results, and it was fascinating, you know. It's a lot of information, you know, and and it can be very confusing. And and they they loved it, you know. Next Christmas, 2020, they bought me one, and I bought my mother one. And we took them, and you know, the Christmas rush, it's probably six, eight weeks. It's a while before you get them, especially after the holidays, you know. And my results came in, and they were off. They were really off. I was born, I was raised, you know, under the assumption that I was Polish, Irish, and Ukrainian. And I had no Ukrainian, I had Polish, Irish, and Italian. And I was like, okay, well, some some some's not the math's not math.

SPEAKER_01 3:45

And yes.

SPEAKER_03 3:46

And then I started, you know, asking my mother, did you get your results? Did you get your results? You know, I was curious to see the circle almost be complete, you know, and she kept saying, No, no, I didn't get it, no, I didn't get it. And finally, I was like, you know what? I'm gonna call 23andMe. I want my money back because I paid through your tests, you didn't get anything, it's ridiculous, you know. And then suddenly the results came. And I I don't know what she thought. The I don't know what she thought, but I mean, hers was as clean as could be, bullish Irish, 50-50. It was amazing. So I didn't really get the you know, vitral effect that you know, the reaction that she had to the point of getting a new laptop and a new email address, thinking that the email was attached to the laptop. Like it was crazy. And she just didn't, I don't understand. And you know, my mother always does the overwhelmed and the crying, and and you know, I kind of go, okay, you know, you pick and choose your battles, right? So she came down for a visit, and I was like, I, you know, we we kind of need to talk about this because something's wrong, you know. And she was like, you know, I think it's ridiculous. It's first it was, I can't say it was bull crap. How about that? We I don't want to curse on your and I just kept pushing and pushing, and you know, then then the tears came and and that didn't work, and then the anger came and you know, she called me by my full name and and proceeded to tell me at that point that I was a horrible daughter because she was the type of daughter that if her mother said the sky was purple, she would say, you know what, mommy, you're right. And I was like, Okay, well, I'm not you, so I'm gonna keep digging, and yeah, we left it at that. You know, I was determined to find out stuff, but you know, life, I mean, life happens, and then you know, COVID hit, and and you know, we were worried about that, and you know, and I just let it go. You know, my kids and I would joke about it, you know, like, you know, the milkman, you know, the the vegetable guy, or you know what I mean? Never thinking, you know, but it was always there, and it was always just kind of kicking around in the back of my head. Jump it to April of 24. I got I have gotten messages on 23andMe from people asking about my mother's side, and I don't know a lot about that either, you know. Her family, there was there was an orphanage, and there was, you know, deaths to Spanish flu, and you know what I mean. So I never really got a straight story there. So I would tell everybody, you know, I'm sorry, I can't help you. I don't know much about that side, I just don't. But this was about my father's side, and I was like, okay, and you know, she she went through and she gave me her whole story and you know, kind of tied it all together, how we would connect, and but left out just enough that it still didn't click, or maybe maybe it didn't. I didn't want it to click. I don't know, you know what I mean. I'm not a DNA expert, I'm far from stupid, but maybe a part of me just wasn't ready to let everything connect. So we we kind of went back and forth, and she had been doing her side of the family. She had surprises over there, so she said to me, you know, I've gotten really good at digging around. Would you like me to help you? And I was like, Yeah, cool. You know, what's gonna come of it? Yeah, she suggested that I do Ancestry, and I was like, okay. So I did that test. And then in I think it was June, beginning of June. We were sitting, yeah, I did Ancestry in May, beginning of June. We were just hanging out, me and and my kids. My kids are older, they're adults, and they started talking, and I'm always on them about being on their phone, you know, be present, the people that are in front of you matter, and then they started talking about like Marvel or something that I just like kind of blank out. And I picked up my phone, you know, my email, and there was an email from her. And I I started to read this email, and I and I'm usually very, very good at like watching my face, you know. And I get, I don't know, I get I must have had a look or the color drained from my face. I'm not really sure of what happened. My son said, What's the matter? I said, Nothing. And he said, Mom, what's the matter? And I was like, nothing. He's like, nah, your whole face just changed. And I was like, oh, well, okay. And I started to read this email where she says, I found your biological father. And it was like it was like just time just stopped, you know. I and it got really eerily quiet, you know, and and the the three of us just sat like, you know, I remember my daughter saying, How do you feel? And I was like, I I I I don't I I couldn't put it into words, I just couldn't put it into words, you know, and I kind of had to take a step away from it and just let it become real, you know. I reached out to her and we've connected and we talked about it. And, you know, I said to her, you need to explain this to me. You know, she started talking about DNA coating and DNA painter. And I was like, I don't know what that is. You you need to tell me what that is and tell me how to find it. You know, I needed to see this for myself. I understand it is scientific. I understand, you know, the only way that there could potentially be an issue is if you have had some cell transplants. You know, I get that. But my I don't know. There was just a part of me that was just like, so once she, you know, it settled, she explains everything, she websites, all of this stuff. My ancestry results came back and it was like boom, automatic. The connection was just like it, it was almost like you know, slot machines, just boom, boom, boom, boom, boom. And I was like, holy crap.

SPEAKER_02 10:35

So how who was what was the connection, the highest connection you had? What was the relationship on Ancestry? Uh half sister. Oh, okay. Yeah, that makes it very yeah, very real.

SPEAKER_03 10:51

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 10:52

Okay.

SPEAKER_03 10:54

And you know, I went down that rabbit hole and and it it was just it's crazy, the things that it leads you to. Ancestry is phenomenal. You know, all the information and and the the documents and the census, and you know, it was just so much information in doing that. I did find out that my birth certificate father was married before my mother. So that was like, oh, you know, like, you know, and and we tend to deal with uh issues and especially dark issues, with we have very dark senses of humor, you know, and and once this finally all came out and I understood it, and I've never hid this from my kids. I couldn't do it. I had to be, they had to know, you know. My daughter says, you know, if you remember the Bruce Willis Christmas movie, I think it's a Christmas movie, you know, come to the coast, it'll be fun. She goes, spit in a tube, it'll be fun, you know. She's like, I'm never buying you any presents anymore, you know. It it yeah, it just got crazy quickly, and it was a lot of information and a lot of things to just accept, you know, like this is real. One of my best, my best friend knew, and and one at one point she said to me, Okay, well, on the scale of okay, I believe this. Where are you? And I was like, I'm at about 80 percent. And she was like, Okay, we're all a hundred, so you need to get on the hundred train because this is happening, you know.

SPEAKER_02 12:51

Why did she say a hundred?

SPEAKER_03 12:54

Because it was because the numbers were so high, it's scientific, okay.

SPEAKER_02 13:01

So it wasn't a matter of there was suspicion, you didn't look like the rest of your family, none of that. It was truly there at 100 because of the science behind.

SPEAKER_03 13:13

Yes, because of the science.

SPEAKER_02 13:15

Okay, and I sat on that.

SPEAKER_03 13:18

I'm sorry, I'm sorry.

SPEAKER_02 13:20

Is your birth certificate father still alive at that point?

SPEAKER_03 13:26

No. Oh, wait, 24. No, okay, yeah. No, he was still alive when I initially tested.

SPEAKER_02 13:36

Oh, okay.

SPEAKER_03 13:39

Yeah, okay. That's a whole that's a whole nother story. We'll get into that at the end of this. Okay. I sat on this till July because I j I just wasn't ready. I just wasn't ready to accept it, you know. I I just wasn't. And I had to, I had to know everything for sure, 150%, so that I could explain it, not get, you know, discombobulated when I was trying to explain this. I needed to just be sure on my words so that there was no chance to manipulate the situation or try and change this situation. There had to be no doubt in me. And that took till about July of 2024. And I just decided one day, you know what? I'm going, I have to talk to her. I can't, I can't. This is driving me crazy, you know. And I went over and I talked to her, and you know, I was like, it sits where there's simple, there's just really no way to bring this up. So we're just gonna rip the band-aid off, and you know, here we go. And and she I I asked her, am I, you know, the the last name, our last name? And she was like, Why would you ask me that? And I said, Well, because I'm not, you know, I don't have a biological link to him. And she was like, That's impossible. And I was like, Okay, well, and I had a folder, a manila folder filled with just information and printout so that I could physically show her, you know. And she listened and and she was like, I I just I don't remember. And you know, and then at one point I was I I could feel myself start, and I was trying to be so calm, and I was trying to, you know, and meanwhile, it's screaming in my head, you know. And I said to her, Okay, you know what? She said, I'm gonna have to think about it. You're asking me to go back almost 60 years. And I was like, okay, first of all, we're not even close to 60, so let's cut that number right there. Back it, you know what I mean? Like, let's not do that. Right. Um, and I'm thinking, you have to think about okay, okay. So I said, okay. And I said, finally, I said, you know, I had one more shot, one more shot. And I said, you know, the only thing that I can link this to is that you worked with him.

SPEAKER_02 16:05

You had gathered that information through your research. Okay, okay, all right.

SPEAKER_03 16:10

I mean, I this was yeah, I got really good at digging. I was always good at digging around, but I got really, really good at it. And as soon as that came out of my mouth, her face just changed. It was like instantaneous. And you know, that little voice in my head is like, okay, shut up, don't say anything, don't say anything, don't say, you know, because first thing you want to do is, yeah, you know, and I'm trying to not say anything and I'm trying to breathe, you know, but I want to hold my breath, and I'm thinking the world can hear my heart, you know. And that's when she said, Oh my god, yes, something did happen. I was like, okay, you want to tell me about it, you know? And it was a very I I don't I don't have an exact answer. You know, it was kind of like, well, you know, it it was something that happened and it just went a little too far. And you know, so and I just wanted to know, like I needed to leave there with an answer, not this whole, you know, yeah, did the the the hopeless romantic in me, yeah, wanted it to be this wonderful love affair. Yeah, you know what I mean? Maybe 20 years ago, 30 years ago, I would have been like, oh, you cheated, you know, but you get older and you things happen, and you know what I mean? Yep, things happen. Period.

SPEAKER_02 17:35

Because your birth, your birth certificate, father, and your mother were married. Yes, they were together when you were conceived. Okay, okay. So yeah, I agree. And I think, especially as we age, uh we understand that nobody's perfect, and I think you know, shit happens, yeah, right or wrong, that's not for us to judge. Um but I think coming in with empathy for that piece of it, I think it I think is good for all of us to at least understand.

SPEAKER_03 18:07

Yeah, and like I said, 20, 30 years ago, yeah, you would have got a whole nother response. It would have been like, oh my god, you chick, you know what I mean? Yep, but you know, because you have that romantic idea. And you know, I loved my dad. Don't get me wrong. Yeah, I loved my dad, I adored my dad. My father, my dad, not my father, my dad was my biggest supporter. He was my it like I could do anything, anything. And my dad would be like, I got it, don't worry about it, you know. Yeah, like he died, and I knew I had lost my biggest supporter, and and no other man was ever going to love me like that, period. But he had his faults, you know. I don't rewrite history, I don't change history. I don't mean to sound cold about it, but it is it it's a fact, you know. He wasn't perfect, you know. There were times when I got older that they would get into it and I would say to her, What do you do? Why did you leave him? What are you doing? You're an independent woman. Why do you put up with his shit? So you know, when the story first came out, I was like, well, you know, if he was kind of on his BS, maybe I could see it. You know what I mean? It wasn't for me to judge, to, you know, make up in my head, whatever. I told her at that point that it changed it, it changed nothing. You know, we were just gonna clear the air, we were gonna talk about it, and we were just gonna go on. We weren't gonna beat this horse, you know. And I really thought that I could do that at that moment. And I left, and I felt better because I had confirmation for what I was looking at, so I could make my heart and head connect. And I really, really thought I could bury this, you know, like changes nothing. Come on, it's a big deal. And April of this year, I crashed. I hit a wall, I went into probably the deepest, darkest depression that I think I have ever been in. And it it just it just kept, you know, kicking around and kicking around. You know what I mean? I just couldn't, I couldn't, I couldn't put it in the box like I've done everything else in my life. You know, I've always been the strong one, I've always been the funny one, I've always been the go-to, you know, I've always been the one to held hold everything together while the world's falling apart, you know, mom had it or Beth had it, or you know, and I I I was so depressed that I remember sitting in my car one day, like if somebody runs into me right now, would I be upset? Like, do you know what I mean? I wasn't actively mapping it out, but I that's where I was, and I realized like holy shit, this isn't good. This is not good. I was functioning to work, and I realized I I I need help dealing with this, you know. And I started looking. Go ahead.

SPEAKER_02 21:42

I'm sorry, tell me. So you confronted sat with your mom uh in July of last year, last year, and you crashed April of this year from July until April. Did you pack it away?

unknown 21:59

Thank you.

SPEAKER_03 22:00

packed it away and didn't talk about it with anyone or would it come up a little bit were there further conversations with your you with your mom between then no we had one conversation that was it okay I did still keep digging around you know you get obsessed with what does this look like and you know what do they look like and I think something that really brought it all to the forefront was Marishka my mom Jane came out and I remember sitting and and my daughter was home and I was like hey you know there's this documentary you want she said yeah you know and we sat and we we started watching it and I was I was so good until the part where she talked about that person telling her well do you know about this and she was like I don't know who that is you know and and and when it came out she said the ground came out from underneath me and you know and and I went to take a breath I went to take an inhale and it came out as and it just completely lost my composure at that point you know because somebody finally sorry I don't apologize somebody finally put I couldn't I I there's times I still don't have the words you know it was a free fall it was I feel on moored you know I've said you know sometimes I don't know who I am you know oh you're the same person that you were I yeah to an extent but not you know and and I think that started it you know that that that just that lot just that whole scene right there I was just like wow you know and and again I was functioning I was working yeah of course you know and and I can I can put that mask on and you know laugh and joke and you know and and I just realized I'm like I I I can't I can't do this this is this is bad you know this is really bad I need help functioning right now well and I think I think just listening to you say that it it sounds like you finally somebody put words to what you didn't even know how to describe yes but did it also make you realize that you weren't alone yes yeah like yeah there at least here's one person who's brave enough to document this their amazing documentary that she did but you weren't alone because I assume um if you're not talking to anybody about it it doesn't mean it's gone away like you're not it's not good I call it spiraling in our heads you're you're still constantly thinking about it but had you found the Facebook groups and any of that at that point at that point I had okay you know and then there were times that you know you you you you just it's overload you know for me it's overload and you're reading these stories and you know just like I I I I you know like you said spiraling you know like I couldn't get enough of it even though it was hurting I couldn't get enough of it I needed more needed more needed more you know you know you read other stories and and and it gets to the point where you go well I'm not as bad as that one you know what I mean like there's levels of crazy you know what I mean yeah and then I just kind of stopped everything I was like I I I gotta I'm spiraling and this is becoming an obsession you know I need to back away from this and when I backed away from it I think is when I kind of looked at it a little bit more clear and and realized that I I wasn't handling it as well as I thought I was one of the issues that I had down here with finding a therapist was I don't I I didn't want to do a lot of them are faith based. Yeah I don't I don't want faith based I don't want to watch what like like talking to you I'm trying to really really watch what I say because you know I can I don't need drug driver you know you don't need to and and I couldn't I couldn't have these like you know healing conversations if I couldn't drop an F bomb you know what I mean because that's what it felt you know so it took a while to find that and I found a counselor and she has no background in this so she was like in the beginning she was like wow that's that's a lot and I'm like yep that's a lot but she's been phenomenal and I had a heated conversation with my my mother because I just I I tried to tell her like she's very much a get over it and I just didn't I hit a point where I didn't care about anything. I didn't care you know for once I couldn't pretend that I was happy or that I could you know clean this up or or take care of this it just I hit a wall you know and I said to her I am so incredibly depressed right now that I don't care I don't care about anything you know and she called me two weeks later and was like so how are you well I'm still in the same spot but thanks for asking you know what I mean it just doesn't there's no click there's no comprehend that you know depression you just don't go okay I'm done you know I'm happy now yeah and and then on top of it you're talking to a therapist and you're talking about the stuff that made you depressed you know so it's all surfacing over and over yeah yeah but it's been good I've kind of done a very limited contact because it is what I need so this is the first time in my life that I am saying no that I'm saying yeah that doesn't work for me and part of me was like it just felt so selfish because it just didn't do that. You know what I mean? And I'm getting used to it I I am you know I'm like I'm not no I don't want to do that you know or you know just just setting boundaries you know and and and whatever gets me through that day is what we're gonna do you know it was hard to do you know what I mean because I'm just not used like I said I'm not used to to to doing that to saying I'm I'm upset or I'm hurt or I'm depressed or that was a weakness you know what I mean you just didn't admit that so I'm getting used to that so based on that actually if you if you were to explain how your relationship was with your mom leading up to the discovery how would you describe that relationship I think we have very different views of what the relationship is I think you'd get a completely different answer if you asked her she does have a tendency to rewrite history and pretty things up and I don't you know I take the good bad and the ugly my mother has always supported me you know I have to say that she really is be that to an extent emotionally as much as she could financially you know what I mean in the past she's always been there for that but that always came with you know but look but look what I did for you you know so I think she it would just be a very different description of the relationship you know my mother is very dependent she doesn't drive you know never has so she's extremely dependent my mother is the consummate victim like everything is done to her everybody does stuff to her she's the victim and that's one thing that you know she started to one time that we were talking and I was like you're not the victim you're not you did this this is your doing not mine I'm the victim if anybody's the victim here it's me and that was so bizarre to say you know what I mean yeah so I just think it would be a very very different description of what the relationship would be you know she was always very my mother punished with silence you know if you did something wrong or you know she didn't like something she would just cut you off and it was like she was amazing she could just look right through you like you weren't even there you know and I tried I think I made the decision even before I had my kids like I'm I'm not gonna do I am hyper independent to a fault and there's nothing in my house that we can't or won't talk about you know I I just I want it to be different you know I want it to be different you know and I think I did you know I think you'd have to talk to my kids about that but you know yeah it was it's just it's it's a strange place to be in now you know what I mean like it's it's interesting that I can sit back and go I don't feel bad I don't feel bad you know with my father birth father I don't know what you want to how you want to differentiate to my father my dad's my dad my birth certificate father my dad my father in digging around now it's gonna get really it's gonna get a little crazy in digging through you know paperwork and ancestry and all of this stuff I found out that there are four siblings out there they are all older than I am I don't think they know about me because if you you know like when you log on to ancestry it tells you hasn't signed on for you know so I don't think they know about me I struggle with you know initially when I found out I was like I'm never reaching out for what you know what what is going to come of that I've kind of softened a little bit there's a mild curiosity but my apprehension is I cannot be the one to take the image that they had of their father away I just I can't cause somebody that pain if they reached out to go ahead oh I was gonna say because in your research your biological father was married also yes and was he older than your yes than your mother okay the other thing that I that kind of really just caught me off guard was both men were born on the same day different years but the same birthday yeah the yeah wow so your birth certificate father that raised you and your biological father have the same birth dates different years yes yeah there's something to be said about that I it's wow I I I can't tell you how many times I looked at that just to be like am I am I wait a minute right yeah I mean let me read the obituaries again you know just maybe I got the dates wrong yeah okay wow okay told you well and and I interrupted you and I apologize so you have the four half siblings based on what you found is there only one of them that is on ancestry you said you had a half sibling one of them was on 23andme okay and one of them was on ancestry okay so I linked with both of them when 23andMe came out with their you know their bankruptcy and all of that stuff I I did delete all of my information because I don't know I just thought I really want it out there but it's out there anyway so you know what I mean it was pretty stupid to do but my ancestry is still up and yeah and then I linked to like some nephews and yeah so yeah I want to believe not if but when they find out via you know them seeing it on ancestry or a nephew you know it just takes someone down the line it doesn't even have to be them so when they find out it sounds like you're open to getting to know them them getting to know you hearing from them are the curiosity I would like to I would like to know obviously medical I mean you know because you know once all that like oh my god kind of cleared that fog lifted then it then you know then the anger kicks in and and you know and I was like so my med all of my medical history is wrong like what you know so I I would like to know that I don't know what I don't I don't know that's that you know I've gotten very I hate the words I don't know but I've gotten very comfortable saying them you know because I don't know I don't know what what would the benefit be you know someone said you could be the best somebody actually made a comment today I posted something on one of the sites and and I came back and I said the same thing. I was like you know what I don't I can't be the one to take away their image that they have you know at least some of them one of them not so much but some of them are very you know he he's on a pedestal you know and she was like you know that's not fair to you you could be the best thing that ever happened to them and I was like wow first of all wow you know what I mean like okay I don't know I you know I try and like flip it back and forth like what could be gained from it I want nothing from them do you know what I mean I don't want I don't want money I don't want I want nothing tangible you know what I mean then you go into the emotion could they because they are slightly older could they handle it do you know what I mean like I just don't want anybody I don't want to be the cause of anybody's pain or anybody's hurt I don't want that you know what I mean if they find out and they reach out to me then I guess at that point there's a decision to be made but for this moment today I I just I'm I'm not comfortable doing that because it's going to hurt period whether you accept it or not eventually initially it hurts like it's a pain that I just cannot even describe there's still days that I cannot put this feeling into words you know and I can't cause that to somebody and then the person who told me the cousin who told me started that down that road she was like oh my god I'm so sorry you know I'm like no you know what I mean thank you thank you because you know it probably would have gone I probably would have started to dig when my mom passed right you know that's when I would have started digging she claims she didn't know she claims she didn't lie she had no idea that she was pregnant by him you know what I mean there's things that I believe there's things that I did believe there's things that I doubt I don't know you know what I mean I'd love the straight answer honest answer not the cover your ass answer yeah you know not the story that makes you the victim or you know what I mean like just be brutally honest with me we all do stupid stuff we do you know and most times everybody lies everybody lies no and you go yeah I do I think she thought she was gonna take this to her grave yeah you know what I mean I mean down the rabbit hole of not knowing okay let's go down that rabbit hole so it happened she really didn't my mother's smart but let's say okay she didn't realize that it could have been someone else's back in 2019 you knew yeah you know or 20 in 20 when we got our test results you knew right then and there it didn't and I said this to her I said it didn't you you didn't like see my results and go shit oh shit that means right yeah she said no like I I I I don't I don't know how that I don't I don't know how that's possible do you know what I mean I mean I've lied uh you know what I mean I've lied about stuff and it comes back to haunt you and you're like oh damn it I gotta admit to this you know what I mean how it didn't and then and then it was you know flipped it on me I was the horrible daughter and then tried to flip it on me and my kids saying well you guys always laughed and joked about it yeah because how do you not like you gotta laugh about it or you're gonna go crazy and and it's not even the affair whatever it was it's the perpetual lie from 20 21 22 23 that's what bothers me there I don't understand how you know for sure and you can you can stuff that down I just don't I can't you know what I mean I just can't I can't that's what I'm struggling with the most is is that lie not the affair yeah I have no right to judge anybody for anything if he gave her what my father wasn't at that point you you do you you know it's that lying when that report came in you told me I would to flip the script you told me I was a horrible daughter right it was your you did something wrong right yeah you know what I mean and then perpetually after that every year you just you lied you know and then even when I had all of that proof she tried to get out of it you know until I brought up that one thing that I just think she just didn't know like didn't know how far I had gone after I asked her that I was like you know let me ask you another question she was like I don't know if I can do your questions anymore I was like well I got one more and I said you know I found out was daddy married before you and she was like wow you really did Dick I was like yeah I did you know I mean to the point where where I even ordered she knew okay okay yeah she knew okay to the point where I wrote to the county that he was in to get a copy of the marriage certificate just to compare signatures you know what I mean because my father had very very beautiful distinct writing and as soon as that came in of course that takes weeks you know as soon as it came in I opened it up and I was like oh yeah supposedly there were no kids in that relationship I I I don't know what to believe you know what I mean I've kind of hit a wall with trying to track her I believe she has passed so I don't you know what I mean who who knows they're yeah have all these siblings and you in you know from a scientific standpoint may never know if he had children with that first marriage because they won't connect with you now on any of the sites because you yeah don't biologically share DNA with him. Correct correct yeah and then I know that I do know that cousins from my birth certificate father tested and you know that took a minute to kind of I think that might have been a turning point for me when I found that out because I mean it was when I uploaded my 23me and everything all that ancestry and all those other sites it it like I said it was like you know it was like a slot machine it was like boom boom boom boom boom you know And there was no on that side. And I was just like, holy moly, this is real. You know, and there are days. I'm gonna be honest with you, there are days that I wake up and I'm like, geez, it's not a dream. Nope. Nope, it's not a dream, it's it's real. And you know, when you try and explain it to somebody, they just don't, I don't know, they just don't like they're like, oh my god, this should be a movie. Oh my god, you should write a book. And I'm like, yeah, I get that, but this is my life, you know what I mean? Like, and I can laugh and I can joke, and because it's just the way that I deal with things, but there is this, you know, there's this hurt that I don't know what's going to fix that. You know, what what what would make things some my my best friend asked me what could she say to make things better? I don't know. I don't have an answer for oh damn it. I'm sorry.

SPEAKER_02 45:18

No, do not apologize.

SPEAKER_03 45:20

I don't have the answer to that, you know. I'm sorry, I don't know if that's gonna do it. I don't know if that's just going to pick the scab or upset me more. I don't know because you know you've you've lied so much and you've always made excuse me, you know, yourself the victim. Are you just saying it so that we can just end this and and you know close that box and move on? I don't know. I don't and I don't like you said, I don't would never wish this on anybody, you know what I mean? In the beginning, it was kind of part of me was excited, you know, when it wasn't real. No, you know, back in 20. Um I was like, wow, this is pretty, you know. I don't really know what this means, but you know, and and then once it once that realization hits, it's just it's devastating. You know, my dad is my dad, period. Doesn't change that, never will. So I think he knew, no, I don't. You know, it takes a very special kind of man to raise someone else's child, you know. And my mother's very, very lucky that I look exactly like her. You know, I didn't look like my dad, and I knew that all along, you know what I mean? I just be like, we don't even look alike. I look like he's like, Yeah, you'll be like a mother, you know. Yeah, no, I don't know. It's it's just uh I I there's just words that I just can't I I you know what I mean, you know, and that's what I love that I could sit here and look at you and you're nodding your head, and I know I know that you know what this what this feels like, you know, and part of me feels guilty that I'm happy you do, yeah, you know what I mean? But I don't know, it's just bizarre, it's bizarre, you know.

SPEAKER_02 47:27

Well, and one of the things I thought of as you were talking about that is you know, also I've been told you should write a book, you you know, this is but you can't make this shit up, like you it's it's talked about a lot within the some of the community Facebook groups about some movies and TV shows that we now know have an NPE in them, but all of them oh, they find out, they meet their dad, they all live happily ever after. There's zero talk about the the emotional mental impact that this makes to every single one of us at some level. You know, some people it's very I'd like to say that they oh, that's interesting and they move on, but I really believe it affects everybody, they just bottle it up differently than the rest of us. But that these stories glorify it and make it seem like this this amazing thing, just as within the adoptee community, they talk about the same thing, all the movies. It's this this the adoptee uh adoptive family is these heroes and they saved it. Nobody talks about the true impact to those NPEs, adoptees, donor-conceived people, and also the betrayal from in our case, as you and I are talking, is the betrayal from the person who should have always had our best interest in mind.

SPEAKER_01 49:12

Right.

SPEAKER_02 49:13

And like you, my mother maybe didn't know initially while she's pregnant after she gave birth to me, but at some point she knew. Yes, she knew, and even when confronted as a mother myself, and as you are, what we want our mothers to say is, oh my god, I'm sorry, I didn't mean to hurt you, and I take, I wish I could undo. I want that acknowledgement of this pain. And I think the mother in your case and in mine adds to the pain, I think. I can't speak to others who have mothers who are embracing and and empathetic and all of those things. But for me, I think that's what hurts and drags it out even more is because our own mothers betrayed us.

SPEAKER_04 50:14

Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 50:15

And and it's just, you know, I don't know about you in your case, but in my case, it was, you know, the the accountability through my life was ridiculous. Do you know what I mean? The things that I was held accountable for, the things that I, you know, did wrong, and and and how long that like mistake just kind of was held over my head, and you know, and then this comes out, and I'm just like, wait, wait a minute. You know what I mean? Like, are you are you joking? Are you kidding with me? You know what I mean? This was a woman that held herself in such high regard and you know, could be very judgmental, and and and and this is what happened. And again, I have to go back to it's not even the affair, it's not, you know what I mean. Although that is like, wow, seriously, you know what I mean?

SPEAKER_02 51:08

It's hard to imagine.

SPEAKER_03 51:09

Yeah, it's hard, it's hard. It's that it's it's that lie that continued, you know what I mean, from when this all came out, even before when my kids first did it. That didn't jar something in your head where you where she sat there and thought, shit. You know what? Like, I'm so listen, I have done stuff, I have buried stuff deep in in you know, duct tape and concrete, and and and it's not opening, but it's still, you know what I mean, that still will pop into your head, and you're like, oh, and this is not, and I I try to explain to people like you know, this is not well, you know, when you were in seventh grade and you know, we told you that the dog went to the farm. It didn't, you know, it's not that, yeah. It's it's it's it's you know what I mean? It's you my dad, my my dad, not my dad.

SPEAKER_02 52:12

Yeah, it's not protecting you as taking the dog for a walk and the dog ran away, it's protecting you. This and these secrets was protecting them, and that's what bothers me.

SPEAKER_03 52:28

There's still no accountability, you know. It's it's you know, well, I didn't lie, and you know, it's it's all these words to try and make her the victim, you know, or try and make her not wrong, you know, and it's okay to be wrong. It's you know, I learned that a long time ago. It's okay to be wrong, and it's hard the first time that you apologize to your adult child for something that you did. Yeah, that first time is hard, and you know what? After that, it gets so easy, and it just it's so free to be like, you know what? You're right, I screwed that up. Sorry, I'm human, you know what I mean, and to genuinely mean it. I don't think I'm gonna get that genuine remorseful accountability apology. It will be to okay, I'm sorry, can we just can we can we move? Can we move past this place? Yeah, you know, because we have to be perfect, you know, and like the inside of the house is falling apart, but the outside looks perfect, and that's what people see, yeah, you know, and I don't that's I'm so far the opposite of that, you know. What you see is what you get with me. And I just I don't know. I don't know how you I really try and I've always tried to live my life and put myself in other people's positions, you know, and think, okay, remove the emotion. What could be going on? You know, think about how they feel. I can't my mind won't let me go there to make this okay to where I can say, you know what, you're it's fine, we can move on. I'm I'm stuck right now, and I'm working towards moving. I am, I'm working towards moving forward and forgiving, but I don't know, I'm just not there yet.

SPEAKER_02 54:32

Yeah, and that's and that's okay. That's okay, that's okay. Yeah, you know, and as you were talking about your mother's uh trying to please the outside world, so the from the outside, we you know, the family looked perfect, and and and and the first thing I think about is generationally, obviously, you know, we're in similar age frames. So, like I gave my mom a lot of grace because my mom was single and pregnant in 1971. And I told her that I don't fault you for the decisions you made because it was a very different time, you know. A woman having premarital sex in the 70s, even the 80s and before, was frowned upon, and they had to do what they had to do to protect themselves. And your mom, if she had known and told your your dad, would she be raising children by herself because he would have left, and then what would that have done? Um, so I give I have a lot of empathy for the generational BS that our parents, grandparents, all of that had to deal with, especially the women. Because, you know, I've seen lots of movies and stories, documentaries, the books about, you know, the the men are outdoing what the men are gonna do, and the women have to deal with the consequences, the men don't, and so I have all of this empathy, but it goes back to what I said. As a mother, your job is to protect your children at all cost, right? No matter what the front of the house looks like.

SPEAKER_03 56:32

You know, I did have the empathy and I did have the grace, and I did have all of those things. And one of the last conversations where I tried to explain to her the whole, the dark black hole that I was in. You know, I one of the things they said was, I I I can't keep this secret. Your secret is killing me. It's it's it's literally physically killing me. You know what I mean? I can't, I need to be able to talk about it. And her response was, so what do you want to do? Like tell my whole family. And I was like, I mean, you know, I'm from the I'm from the the east, the north, you know. And I was like, first of all, I'm not a rat. That's number one, you know what I mean? But that's your concern.

SPEAKER_02 57:25

It's about her.

SPEAKER_03 57:26

That's your concern. I just told you how dark I am that I sat at an intersection and thought, if something weren't into me right now, would I care? And all you want to know is, am I gonna tell your family? Like, are you joking? And that's when all the empathy and all the grace just yeah went away. I don't have it, I just don't have it.

SPEAKER_02 57:56

Well, you're begging for it. You were, I mean, you're being so vulnerable with her by telling her that that you are as low as you've ever been, and she still turned it around on her.

SPEAKER_03 58:09

Yeah, and that's sad, it's very sad, you know. It could have gone completely different, you know, could have gone completely different. You know, you don't know what you would do if you're in that situation, but I could honestly say, if I were in that situation and I knew this was gonna come out, I would have preemptively said, okay, listen, I gotta be honest with you. Do you know what I mean? I I found out from a stranger. Yeah, I found out from a stranger, and I don't I don't regret that. You know what I mean? I I feel bad for her that she feels bad, you know, it's so weird. Um, but I appreciate her so much. I just do. And we email back and forth and you know, traded pictures and things like there's like a I think the numbers is just like a third cousin or something like that. So, but that's what I can honestly say. That's what I would have done. I would have thought, you know what I mean? I mean, granted, yeah, who who knew back then that sitting on your couch and spitting in a tube was gonna one day be a thing, nobody of course, yeah, you know, so I really, really believe that she she knew she thought she was gonna take this to her grave. I don't think anybody around her, anybody knew she kept this completely to herself and was going to you know take it to her grave, never knowing spitting in a tube and putting it in the mail was gonna happen one day. And holy moly, here we go.

SPEAKER_02 59:41

Yeah, you know, and I hear that a lot, and I I agree. My mom had literally hundreds of opportunities to tell me the truth. Yeah, it's difficult, and I you know, hindsight, I I think this is how I would react is if she had taken an opportunity even a year prior to learning the truth, what at any point, I would rather have heard it from her than after doing a DNA test. Yeah, and I hear that often. And it's easy for us to say, I would have forgiven her, you know, whatever we want to say. But to me, that's a sign of owning it, like I made a mistake, and here's the truth, and there you're still gonna go through a lot, a lot of emotions and a lot of you know that we've all dealt with, but the betrayal would have been slightly lessened, I think.

SPEAKER_03 1:00:42

I think I agree, yeah, I agree with that. You know, and and it's something had to jar your memory. I'm sorry, it did, you know what I mean? And and again, just I guess thinking it's never gonna, it's never going to happen, and you know, I don't know. I don't know. The jig was up and and just it would have maybe taken some of this state, it still would have been shocking, yes of course, yeah, you know, but it might have relieved some of the sting of it, and it might have lessened my anger towards her because I'm very angry. Yeah, very, very angry. And when I think, okay, maybe today I'm not um, you know, nope, no, no, there it is. You know what I mean? Something just I don't know.

SPEAKER_02 1:01:38

Well, and you're fresh, so you did the test back in 2020, but you didn't learn your the correct the actual truth until May of last year.

SPEAKER_03 1:01:52

Yeah, May of last year when I yeah got that email, and you know, I'll I'll never forget that feeling. It was just like like I was reading it and it it the out of yeah, yeah, yes, yeah, you know, and I kind of like closed my eyes and thought, okay, maybe I'm let me read this again. You know, I'm on my phone, it's small, you know. Yeah, and I remember it took my it, I literally took my breath away. Like it took my breath away, and again, I could I thought the world could hear my heart. It was pounding like, oh my God, what do I do with this? And for that minute, I realized, you know what, I've got I gotta I gotta sit in this because you know, my first instinct to something like that is just like run headfirst into it, you know what I mean? I'm that's just I'm like the bull in a China shop, you know what I mean? I'm ready to kick the door down and you know, like let's just get this out, you know. And I just realized I got I have to I have to sit with this. I can't don't do anything right now, just just be, you know.

SPEAKER_02 1:02:54

Which isn't easy.

SPEAKER_03 1:02:56

No, it was not, and then and then that started that searching and that digging, and you know, I've found out amazing things, and I saw like my dad's writing and I saw where they lived, and I saw senses. It just so much incredible information that I would have never saw or found out, and then it brings regret, you know. Then you have the regret of, you know, I wish I would have asked my dad more questions, and you know, I wish I would have pushed him to talk about things that he didn't want to talk about, you know what I mean, like being in the war and stuff like that, you know. Yeah, I wish I knew that. Yeah, you know.

SPEAKER_02 1:03:37

Well, and I think for me anyway, you know, I I learning this and doing exactly what you said, the the amount of history that I've learned in since my discovery, where prior to that I had zero interest in history whatsoever. And so it really personalizes it, and so that that curiosity grows, taking out the the surprise DNA piece to it, it's still very interesting and it it humanizes our ancestors and and sometimes in in your case, even though he wasn't your biological father, you he he was he was who raised you, and that that ability to understand where he came from, what you know what his his ancestral is is still important. Yeah, and then you have that heartbreak of well, now it's not my story, it's because I'm not related. Yeah, unfortunately.

SPEAKER_01 1:04:52

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 1:04:53

Well, I know you mentioned therapy, but what what are you doing to make sure that you're taking care of yourself, your mental health, all of that during this hard time?

SPEAKER_03 1:05:06

Honestly, I've I've gotten very comfortable with the word no. Period. You know, it it that that rarely came out of my mouth. Mom, can you yeah, what do you need? That can you, yeah, what do you need? You know, uh even when I was dragging, yeah, what do you need? I got you. I'll be there, you know. To say no could could hurt someone's feelings. I didn't want to do that, you know, to the detriment of myself. So I've gotten really comfortable with like, no, that's not gonna work for me. You know what I mean? The therapy is helping a lot. Journaling started just writing stuff down, just to kind of because you know, my thing is I could be exhausted at seven o'clock, eight o'clock. I'm exhausted. And I'm like, you know what? I'm going to bed. And I'm tired, I'm tired. I'm tired. And I lay down, and my brain goes, Yeah, we're not gonna do that. We're gonna think about all this stuff, you know, and it just races, you know, and I can't turn it off, you know. So I'm trying to figure out how to do that. I'm not really a yoga kind of girl, I've tried it. I just, I just I again can't turn the brain off. I did do a sound bath, which is going to sound I don't know if you've ever done one.

SPEAKER_02 1:06:37

I have, I love it.

SPEAKER_03 1:06:37

It's it was the most amazing experience. I I like legit, I didn't do any research, I didn't watch any videos. I was like, I'm gonna go into this, you know. My my therapist challenged me to find something. Do one thing that you've done before and one thing completely different, out of character, you know, and I really wanted to do this. I saw it, I was like, I want to do this, I'm gonna try it one time. And I remember getting there, and you know, she started to talk and she said, So we're gonna do three ums. Oh, and I was like, Oh, here we go. Here comes woo-woo. Geez, what I get myself into. And it was the most surreal, amazing, peaceful, calming. I don't I went back, I did a second one. That's how crazy it was. It was just wonderful. She challenged me in my last session earlier in the week. She's like, Okay, you did really well with that one, so let's pick another one for October. And I was like, Okay, cool. That was last week. I'm sorry, that was last week. I met with her this week and I was like, Yeah, remember that challenge? And she was like, Yeah. And I was like, I I picked it already. And she's like, You did? And I'm like, Yeah, it's actually happening Wednesday. She was like, What is that? I said, going on a podcast, and she was like, What? And I'm like, Yeah, and she's like, I don't even know what to say. I'm so proud of you, you know what I mean? Like, she's so just so cool and she's like, I would have never thought that. And I'm like, I know, you know, like what'd you think? Like, I was gonna say, I'm gonna jump out of a like a plane, or you know, we're not going that far.

SPEAKER_02 1:08:25

No, we ain't doing that.

SPEAKER_03 1:08:25

I don't do heights, but I said, Yeah, and I said, and I'm I'm I'm excited because I know that this woman is going to be able to look me in the face and say, I know, yeah, I know, you know what I mean? And and it's I'm sorry that you went through it, but in a way, part of me is glad you went through it because I just feel normal. Yeah, you know, yeah, I do kind of feel normal, yeah, you know, it's weird, just the weird, bizarre feeling, and then other than that, I'm just kind of open to things and whatever comes, comes, and you know, just trying stuff and and then just taking it really, really actually basically one day at a time. And then when it's a bad day, I accept it and go, okay, it's a lost day, it's a bad day, because the more I try and choke those tears down, the worse it gets when they finally do come out. So I just kind of go, all right, we're just gonna have a really good cry, you know. So we're gonna watch some sad videos on TikTok, and and you know, that helps me, you know what I mean? And I just accept it, it's just a shitty day, it's not a shitty life, no, you know, it's just a bad day.

SPEAKER_02 1:09:41

Great perspective, yeah. Because it's easy to get in that spiral, as I say, and and then something shitty will happen the next day, and then you're like, Yep, yep, here we go. Here's here's my life, and yeah, and I'm proud of you for well, at the urging of your your therapist to push yourself to to me, it's almost like it's opening up your world more very much. Try new things, try this, and the fact that you did sound bath, I I think is amazing because most people, as you said, would think, oh, that's woo-woo-y. And what people don't understand is it is a full body experience, yes, and done right, because I've I've gone to I don't know how many, plus at a retreat I did one, and that's how impactful it is. But I've also had a bad environment and it wasn't very conducive for for that sound feeling in our whole body. But to to do that and and and put yourself out there, I think is is huge because I think I can speak for myself, but when this type of trauma, which is what it is, happens, it sometimes feels like our world is closing in on us. Like it's our world has gotten so small, and and and being able to seek out things outside of us to open ourselves back up. And I think the sitting here having this conversation, listening to others reminds us our world isn't small, that we're not alone. I keep saying that, but it's so important for me to know that I'm not alone. And yeah, I I I'm proud of you for doing that. And and listening to your body when you need to cry. That one's a hard one for me. I I I struggle with that, but I'm working on that also to just let yourself feel the feels.

SPEAKER_03 1:11:47

Yeah. I mean, there's days, you know, like I I mean, like I'll call it a woe is me day, you know. I'm very woe is me today. And and you know, yeah, you gotta wallow in it and you gotta bathe in it, and you just gotta feel it all, you know. And then if it lasts till tomorrow, you know what, it lasts till tomorrow. If it lasts after that, then you know, maybe we need to kind of you know do something about that. And and you know what I mean, but the more like I know for myself, the more I try and choke it back, it could be something, you know, I don't, I don't, I drop a pen or like you know, that that just break, you know what I mean? And it's stupid because if I just got it out yesterday, I feel so much better today, you know what I mean? And and I'm not saying, you know, go stand outside and just cry, but let it, let it, let it go and let it, it's it's it to me, it's cleansing and it's your your body needs to get something out, regardless of what it is, even if you don't know. There's days I'll cry, I don't even know why. You know, it's just I'll get up in a in in a in a woe is me mood, you know. But recognize it, deal with it, don't stuff it down like I tried to do. Yeah, you know, I did it, yeah, did it for almost a year. It was awesome. No, and then my body was like, yeah, no, we're not doing this anymore. And and and recognizing when you need the help and knowing that asking for help is not a weakness, it's a strength. Yeah, it's a strength, you know, and knowing that I just I couldn't I couldn't deal with it on my own. I I just I could deal with a lot of stuff and I can hold 50 pleats. And you know, I I I really can, but I just didn't know how to hold this. Yeah, I had I had to put it down and have somebody help me.

SPEAKER_02 1:13:43

Ask for help, which is the biggest, hardest step. But I I think it's it it it speaks to your strength to be able to do that. Yeah, yeah. So good for you. So leading into the next, what advice would you give to others who are struggling with their mothers?

SPEAKER_03 1:14:13

You know, I don't do the I'm not of the mindset of, but it's family.

SPEAKER_04 1:14:21

That's not my mindset, it never has it.

SPEAKER_03 1:14:28

I shrunk myself, I choked down a lot of feelings to keep the peace, to make her happy, and I just decided I can't do it anymore, you know, and I feel better, you know, in the beginning. Yeah, part of me felt really guilty, you know, very guilty. But I just have to do what I know is best for me, and I think maybe maybe if I had learned younger, much, much, much, much younger, that saying, hey, that's not really gonna work for me wasn't being disrespectful. You know what I mean? Yeah, it would have been different, you know. I wish that we had a better line of communication. I wish that she dealt with me the way I deal with my kids, you know, because it's the complete opposite of that. Uh there are times I've said before that I kind of wish she treated me like she treats the strangers that she meets because she's really nice to them sometimes, you know.

SPEAKER_02 1:15:47

Yep, I do.

SPEAKER_03 1:15:49

I don't know. I just don't don't shrink yourself and don't get caught up in that blood is blood. No, no, and well, it's family. You know what? If it's bad for you, if it's toxic, if it's stopping you from sleeping, you know, if it's not, if it's disturbing your peace in absolutely any way, then you need to take a step back and evaluate it and and and try and have that conversation. Try and have it. I have tried so many times, and I never wanted to kind of like uh admit what I knew until this. You know what I mean? Like it's just it's just not going to happen. So maybe we will hit a point where we can be I I don't want to say we maybe we will hit a point where I can be okay with being around her physically, but for right now, it's just it's it's not good for me because my concern is you know something judgy or you know, some lesson's gonna slide out of her mouth, or or I'm going to perceive something differently than the way it was meant, and it's gonna just be catastrophic. You know what I mean?

SPEAKER_02 1:17:18

Yep, yeah.

SPEAKER_03 1:17:19

I don't know. That's just a hard, it's a hard, it's a hard question. It's you know, mothers and and kids, and it I don't know. You know, it's I don't know. Maybe if someone of your listeners has advice, they can not call me and let me know what they do.

SPEAKER_02 1:17:38

Well, and you know, as you were saying that, it reminded me I I've seen a few different times where you know, one mother and daughter relationships can be very difficult. And I don't know a single person who has either cut off contact or limited, like I also am very limited with my mother, but none of us do that easily. It's not like we just okay, I'm done with her. I mean, we try and we try and we try and we try and and for a lot of us, from what I've heard and read, is this again? I can only speak for myself. The decision that I went no contact initially and then limited contact wasn't solely based on my NPE discovery. There is a history of struggles.

SPEAKER_03 1:18:44

Oh, I absolutely agree with that. I have the same thing. There have been times in the past that we have been no contact for years. Yeah, I was just like, I I I can't do this. I can't do the manipulation and the guilt trips, and and this is insanity. You know what I mean? And it took someone who had ulterior motives, but it took someone initially saying, This this is not normal. Like, you know, yes, for me to go, what do you mean it's not normal? Yes, yeah, it is not, you know, so there have been times of zero contact again for years, and then something you know will happen, or you know, and it and it you know what I mean, and then it just kind of changes, and and right now, to be honest with you, if I had the opportunity, it no contact would be probably the best thing for me right now for your mental health, yeah. For my mental health, yeah, yeah. But no, I can't do that, so we're just keeping it very, very limited and very protective, you know. Yeah, if I can make it today, I'll make it today. You know, I'm not cold, this cold, heartless, horrible person, you know. And if I feel like talking about something, we can talk about it. If I'm we're gonna cut it, I don't want to hear it. You know what I mean? I don't there's nothing that you can do to be the victim in this, period. There's not. Yeah, and I have to, I can't I think being where I was mentally scared me so bad that I can't go back there because I don't know if I'm gonna make it back. Yeah, I don't know if I am going to make it back. That's how bad it was, yeah, you know, and I'm so thankful that I recognized it, yeah, because a lot of people don't, a lot of people don't, you know, yeah, and I'm thankful that I found the the therapist and that you know we've kind of started to work through all of this. But I can't I can't go back there for anybody or anything, I just can't do it.

SPEAKER_02 1:20:53

No, and you shouldn't, you shouldn't have to. Yeah, a relationship shouldn't be painful, like we shouldn't lose ourselves in order to have any kind of relationship, even if it is our mothers or our fathers or our siblings or whatever it might be. But yeah, so I I yeah, I I I related and actually I haven't talked about it much, but I was the same way it took a third party to point out to me that I had a very unhealthy relationship with my mother. Because I think, and I was in my I was in my 20 late 20s, and when that's the only relationship, you know, I I had TV mother-daughter relationships, but outside of that, I didn't know how everybody else got along with their mothers. I thought it was normal. And till that third-party person pointed it out, ironically, through a pretty big breakup of of the this relationship, that I finally stood back and went, really? And I started paying attention to every conversation after that. I'm like, he was right. Yeah, yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_03 1:22:16

Exactly. I forgot exactly. I think you just get so used to going with the flow and and and doing absolutely anything to keep the peace, you know, and not be the you know, not be in those crosshairs of, you know, the the that just just there's times that it's like that bird that just pecks the other bird's head, you know, and just peck, peck, peck, peck, oh my god, you know, I'm sorry, I'm sorry, I'm sorry, I'm sorry, I'm sorry. You know what I mean? Just to make it end.

SPEAKER_01 1:22:46

Yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_03 1:22:47

And and it I think it just becomes normal and you just get used to it, you know, and and and you pick and choose your battles. And you know, when that was said, it was like, what do you what do you mean? What what's not normal? Like it's not, yeah. But it's normal here, yeah. And like, yeah, but that's that's the no, this is not good, you know.

SPEAKER_02 1:23:16

But subconsciously, you knew it, I knew it, sure, because we did better with our children. So we knew it in in in one sense, but we couldn't like put the blame on or want to believe it with our mothers. Like, I I I mean, as you were talking, I thought of that. I thought, yep, we both did better with our own kids.

SPEAKER_03 1:23:46

Yeah, it took somebody else telling us our own relationship with our mothers, and I'm not saying, you know, she's this wicked witch, and you know, that's that's not at all what I'm saying, you know. And and yeah, and like everybody like, oh, you always blame the mother. Yeah, a lot of times we do take the fall for a lot of stuff, you know what I mean? But I just started to start questioning like, was it genuine? Yeah, you know, was that help genuine to help, or was it stored for future reference to be able to say, do you know what I've done for you? Yeah, do you know what I've given up after all I've done for you? This is how you're going to treat me. You know what I mean?

SPEAKER_01 1:24:28

Yeah, I don't know.

SPEAKER_03 1:24:30

I don't think those words have ever come out of my mouth meaning it. But I I don't know, it's just I don't wish this on anybody. I really don't. And if it happens, my advice would be just sit with it. Don't react, don't do something that you're going to regret, you know, because initially that was my that was, you know, I'm like, oh my god, you know, I I I need answers, I need them now, you know. And and go with the ups and downs of it, the ebbs and flows of the emotions, because some days it's ah, and then tomorrow, boom, you know, you're you're in that hole again. And you know, some days you some days I I it's I'm I'm like, I'm cool, and then there's others, it's like who the hell am I? You know, who am I? It's just it's I don't know, it's just the most bizarre feeling I think I've ever felt in my life. Yeah, and and I don't, I'll be honest with you, I don't regret it. Yeah, no, no, somebody asked me that if you if you could do it over again, would you do it? Yeah, and I'm like, yeah, yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_02 1:25:55

Which which sounds ridiculous, but I agree. I would not undo any of that, right?

SPEAKER_03 1:26:01

And I think we're the only two that, or no, I'm sorry, anybody in this situation would understand that. Like, you know, most people, yeah, most people would be like, you know, what if you knew it was gonna cause this, you would do it again.

SPEAKER_02 1:26:19

Yeah, well, because I think it boils down to we all deserve to know our truths, where we come from, who we are, who half of us is. We all deserve that. Now, the people who I've heard say they wish they never knew was because they lost what they believe was half of them as their father, or it it wreaked havoc across their their their family, you know. So there is a lot of that, but medically we deserve to know yes, the secrets need to be out. And you know, all you and I have all we've seen stories and read stories about people who always knew there was something they could never figure it out, and then when they find out the truth, they're like, well, now it all makes sense, and so you know, all of that the variety of of reasons why I and I'm I'm five years in uh of knowing, and I still have my good days, my bad days, I still will cry over it, yeah, but I also have done a lot of work with therapy that I'm a recovering people pleaser, and I am finally getting comfortable in my own skin for the first time in 50 some years. And would I go back? Not a chance in hell. Could I go back and have my dad in my life for anything? I would do that. But I can't. I don't have those powers. I don't know anyone who does. But I like who I am right now after all of this work. And same as you. I wouldn't wish it on anybody, but I wouldn't change it for anything.

SPEAKER_03 1:28:16

Yeah. Me either. Me either. I'm glad we did it. You know, w whether it was done as like this will be fun. You know?

SPEAKER_02 1:28:26

Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 1:28:28

Yeah. I I think I I would have liked it to have clicked a little sooner. You know what I mean?

SPEAKER_02 1:28:39

Back in 2020.

SPEAKER_03 1:28:40

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 1:28:41

Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 1:28:41

Yeah. Because then I I and I don't even know if I would want to do this. But at least at that point the potential was there to have met him.

SPEAKER_02 1:28:54

Yeah. Well, if anyone would like to connect with you based on your story, they they relate to something, have some questions, want to share anything. Are you open to being contacted? And if so, how best to reach you?

SPEAKER_03 1:29:12

Yeah, I'm absolutely open to anybody reaching out. I mean, I I, you know, not a doctor. You know, yeah. We preface that. And again, I do tend to deal with things, you know, I laugh at things that other people probably don't find funny because it's just a coping mechanism. It's the way I am. I kind of tell it like it is too, you know. Yeah. And I like people that do that. You know what I mean? I I I have people in my life that I know when I want to hear something, who to call and when I need to hear something, who to call you want the fluff, you know who to call.

SPEAKER_02 1:29:49

Exactly.

SPEAKER_03 1:29:50

Yeah. Exactly. Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 1:29:51

Well, how best do they find you on Facebook or an email, or what would you prefer? Or they can email me and I can filter it through. Yeah, you know what? They can email you. Okay.

SPEAKER_03 1:30:01

Because I don't have anything other than like one email to use. I didn't I didn't even think of that. I'm sorry. I should have, I probably should have thought of that. But yeah, they can contact you and you just let me know, and you know, we can get together and either by email or over the phone or whatever.

SPEAKER_02 1:30:19

Perfect. That I love that. And and I think that makes it very personal.

SPEAKER_03 1:30:23

And that they if somebody Yeah, because sometimes you like I said, one of the reasons why I wanted to do this, number one, was to get to talk about it, and number two, because they knew that you would be able to go do exactly what you're doing.

SPEAKER_02 1:30:37

I know, and I and I'm only sharing the audio, of course, for the podcast. But if anybody could see our video, I'm sat here the whole time, like nodding my head because I so much of you know the the emotions since the NPE discovery, but the relationship with your mother, I'm like, yep, yep, yep.

SPEAKER_03 1:30:57

And I listened to your first podcast, and and that's what I did. I like sat sat there and shook my head, and you know, I was like, Yeah, I get that. I get that. Like I get that. It's something that I've learned years ago. I will never tell someone, I know how you feel if I don't.

SPEAKER_02 1:31:13

Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 1:31:14

Because it's just it's it's like a stabbing somebody in the heart. It's you know what I mean? You don't know, you don't know how I feel. So it's nice to finally have someone shake their head, yeah, I know how you feel, or come out with an explanation or a descriptive word that I go, oh my god, yes, that's it. You know, like you make me feel normal in all of this craziness.

SPEAKER_02 1:31:41

I agree. And and like you said, even from the beginning when you talked about the movie, my mother Jane, like when you pick up on something, and if it's in a movie, if it's in a podcast, if it's in a conversation with someone who they just something put they put words to something you've been unable to is is amazing.

SPEAKER_03 1:32:05

Yeah, it was it was yeah, it was so moving at that point, you know. Like I said, I went to take a breath, and you know, and and my daughter just paused it because she knew, and I just completely broke down and sobbed for like 20 minutes, and I was like, that's it. She said it, she said what this feels like, you know, like somebody else feels that, and then you feel bad. You know what I mean?

SPEAKER_01 1:32:38

And somebody else feels that, but I get it, yeah.

SPEAKER_03 1:32:41

I don't know, it's just so weird, it's just a very, very weird feeling to be in. And you know, I just want people to know there's it it it is happening and it is out there, you know.

SPEAKER_02 1:32:54

Yeah, they're you know there's tens of thousands of us, and I I don't even know where the number is at currently, if anyone even knows, and and we're not alone.

SPEAKER_03 1:33:05

Yeah, yeah, yeah. So I thank you. I thank you so much for having me on and letting me talk about all of this.

SPEAKER_02 1:33:13

Uh well, I thank you for being here. I know I know it's not easy, but knowing that this is the first time you've shared your story and how new it is for you, I I applaud you. I'm proud of you, and thank you. I really, really am grateful that you felt comfortable enough to to. Thank you.

SPEAKER_03 1:33:36

And I appreciate you and you know coming out with this podcast and giving people the opportunity to even do that. You know, there's not a lot of places that you can do that comfortably and safely.

SPEAKER_01 1:33:47

Thank you.

SPEAKER_03 1:33:48

So I do I appreciate you very much. I wish you the best of luck with this. Do you want me back on again? Just give me a call.

SPEAKER_02 1:33:54

I would love that. I would love that. All right. Well, thank you.

SPEAKER_03 1:33:58

Thank you. You have a good night.

SPEAKER_02 1:34:00

If you would like to share your story, please email me at motherslies in dna surprises at gmail.com. You can share anonymously if you prefer. I would love to hear from you with any questions, comments, feedback, or show ideas. Also, please follow, leave a review, or join the private Facebook page at Mothers Lies in DNA Surprises Podcast. Thank you for being here with us where we are not alone in our struggles with our mothers.

SPEAKER_00 1:34:35

Don't be quiet.