Amy's Story

Hello, I’m Stacy, the host of Mothers, Lies and DNA Surprises Podcast. Thank you for being here.  

Again before I introduce today’s episode I want to remind anyone who still wants to be part of an amazing project for NPEs there is a few more days until submissions close for this year’s collage.

The project is The Faces of NPE Project, which includes faces of NPEs who submit their photo as a visual representation to help grow awareness and open thoughtful, respectful dialogue around our experiences.   

If you choose to participate, you only need to submit once.  Your photo becomes part of an ongoing collage that continues to grow each year.  

Submissions for this year’s project close May 13th, with the release happening in June for NPE awareness month.

If you would like to be included, please email Carmen at photos@facesofNPEproject.com.

Thank you!

Now for today’s episode…..I am sharing Amy’s story for the first time!  

 False names, dead end searches…all before Google and at home DNA testing.  Amy had always been told the name of her “Father” was James McCarthy from PA. In Jr. High she became more curious and started asking her mom more questions about who her dad was, she told her she looked like him, artistic like him, driving more curiosity about her Father. This desire drove her to want to find him.  Fast forward to at home DNA testing, and having a husband who also didn’t know his father, she was determined to find him.  

Amy will share the emotions that she’s had to process along the way, finding and then losing a half-sister and also her mother’s death.

Here is a quote that Amy refers to in our conversation so I wanted to share it here also:  “Strange as it may seem, many people are still controlled by their parents after their deaths. The ghosts that haunt them may not be real in a supernatural sense, but they’re very real in a psychological one. A parent’s demands, expectations, and guilt trips can linger long after that parent has died.”

Some great advice that Amy shares is to have realistic expectations versus reality, but be open and prepared.  No matter what happens she will be ok!

Thank you Amy for sharing your story with all of us! And I cannot wait to hear how your CA visit goes! 

Here are the books Amy and I referenced:

“Toxic Parents: Overcoming Their Hurtful Legacy and Reclaiming Your Life” by Susan Forward with Craig Buck 

“Adult Children of Emotionally Immature Parents” by Lindsay C. Gibson, PsyD

Here is the link for the Hiraeth Hope And Healing search angels:

https://www.hiraethhopeandhealing.com/search-angels

Amy’s contact:

Substack or Threads – AmyJoNC

Music is "Drown in your Lies" by NoxAwake via Pixabay  

Transcript

SPEAKER_01 0:03

Well welcome Amy. I am honored to have you here telling your story for the first time. And I'm really excited to hear your story because one, I read some sh blogs is what I call them, but so I've I've gotten a little piece of your story, and it's your first time sharing your story on a podcast. So I'm excited to share your story with everyone also, and I feel honored. So thank you.

SPEAKER_00 0:30

Well, thank you so much for having me. Looking forward to basically getting this off my chest, so to speak. It's been a long time. So thank you.

SPEAKER_01 0:41

So my first question, tell me about your DNA surprise, how you found out and what it's been like since learning your truth.

SPEAKER_00 0:49

So I found out that my dad, who I thought was my dad, the name, the name that I was given for 40 some years of my life, was not the name that he was. So he had told my mother, and I I can say this name, I will say this name. She told me James McCarthy. That's who he was. This is his name, this is what I knew. But then when I was able to get a DNA an angel, D name Angel to help me, her name was Ashley. She actually found out that it wasn't McCarthy, it was it was McI. We'll say McI. That's I don't want to really, you know, give that name out just yet, but yeah. So it was similar, but not completely different. Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 1:35

But the first name was James. James, yeah. Okay.

SPEAKER_00 1:38

That was correct.

SPEAKER_01 1:40

Okay. All right. Continue on.

SPEAKER_00 1:43

So I guess we could just start from the beginning. I always knew that I didn't have a dad that was in my life. My mom was raised in a Catholic family. She was one of nine. She was the second oldest, but the oldest daughter. And so when I was born, the youngest of my aunts and uncles were 10. 10 years old was my youngest uncle. So kind of growing up with them was almost like having older brothers and sisters. It wasn't really like having aunts and uncles like a normal relationship would be. My grandparents were very involved in raising me. So the relationship with my mom was a little different because, yes, she there, she was there and she lived there, but it was almost like my grandparents were the ones that raised me and disciplined me and made sure that I was getting what I needed to get, get where I needed to go. She did work. She was, you know, she worked outside the home. She would come home. Hi my mom. So we lived there until I was 10 years old. And then she got married to my stepdad. And then when she got married to my stepdad, she had to actually move us out 30 minutes away from my grandparents to another town over quite a ways. And my grandmother told me that you have to go with your mom. She's your mom, you have to live with her. So that was a complete culture shock. Just to live with my mother, who wasn't the one who really was involved with me, really. Like she never disciplined me. She I can tell you she didn't really kiss and hug me like a mom would. So to go into that with a stepdad and with her, where she now is going to become the one that raised me on 10 years old, 11 years old, actually, by the time she got married and we moved, it was just it was hard. You know, my grandparents were the ones that gave me the support and the love, the kisses and the hugs and things like that. So it was a weird, weird relationship. So then I'd say through high school, I kind of always had that in my head, like, who is my dad? So I would I started asking her, probably in junior high, you know, please tell me more about him. So she told me she would say things, well, you look like him. I I can see you in him. You because she had the olive skin, she was Italian, so she had the dark atop, you know, olive skin, dark hair, rhyme, fair skin, blonde hair, blue eyes. So yeah, I don't really look like my mom. So she would say things like, you know, you're short and stocky like him. He was an artist, you like art. So it's almost like the nature versus nurture type thing. So I was always into art, loved to draw, love to paint, and he was an artist. So it was, it's she never like you know, encouraged me to be an artist ever. She never really encouraged me to do anything, I gotta be honest with you. I was whatever I wanted to do, I did. So it wasn't with her encouragement. Anyway, so uh, you know, she said he was a welder, he was from Pittston, Pennsylvania. She met him at a bar in 1973. She thought he was younger than him, her, because in New York you could drink at 18, but in Pennsylvania you had to be 21 to drink alcohol. So she thought he was crossing the border because we were right on the border of PA. Binghamton, New York is right on the border of Pennsylvania, pretty much. So she thought he was crossing the border to go drinking because he was young. Well, that was a fat lie because he wasn't, he said he was actually older than her. Yeah. So then how old was your mom was 19. 19. Okay. Yeah.

unknown 5:33

Okay.

SPEAKER_00 5:33

She was 19 when she got pregnant and 20 when she had me.

SPEAKER_01 5:37

Okay.

SPEAKER_00 5:38

Yep. So yeah. So those were all the things that she told me about him. You know, she would tell me about how he looked and how she knew of this. His dad was a CPA. So let's fast forward. I meet my husband. Well, he was, you know, he became my husband, uh, fiance. He also didn't know his dad. So his dad's name was James, James Smith. So it was like, oh no, what if we have the same father? You know, how would we know this? So we were we always made jokes about that, like, oh my goodness, we have the same dad. Wouldn't that be terrible? Terrible, yes. But that was before DNA was a big thing. So you didn't have you couldn't go do, hey, let's DNA test to make sure we're not related. Well, maybe you could have, but it was like '96, you know, when we got married. But so then, just before I got married, I'm like, I was thinking, I'm gonna get married and have kids. I don't know my medical history, I don't know anything. I'm gonna pass this on to my children. I don't know what I have, but we're gonna have kids and we don't know. Neither one of us knows on our dad's side what runs in our family. We don't know. So I I felt, okay, let's, you know, that's when uh AOL started becoming popular, and you could do Google still well, AOL searches, really, Yahoo. So I did a search for a private investigator that can maybe piece family pieces together. So I reached out to this lady and gave her some money, and she did a whole bunch of searching, you know. All the the profile gave the name I gave, the father was a CPA, when we thought he was born, where he lived, Pittston, Pennsylvania. She did all these searches through Scranton and Wilkesbury, Pennsylvania. She did everything, and then she gave me about five numbers and names who she thought might be the James McCarthy that we're looking for, and I started making phone calls. How uncomfortable. You know, I talk to people and they're like, No, this doesn't even sound anything like our family, no. So that was that was really weird to have to do that, but I did it because I wanted to find him so bad. Yeah. So then we fast forward to 2015. Well, a little before that, my husband had actually figured out who his dad was because he had his father's Bible, and the Bible told, you know, the names of the the wife, the first wife, the second wife, sister, parents, all of that was in this Bible that his dad had left at his mom with his mom. So from those names, he found his sister, and then he like pieced it all together, reached out to them through Facebook, and boom, it really was them. He found them, and we connected with his family, and that's been a great story. They are in our lives, they're you know, extended family. My daughter is very close to the stepmom of my dad or husband, so that was a good story. So I was like, oh, he's found his father. I've got to find mine. So that's when ancestry started coming up. So 2015, I put myself in ancestry, 23 in me, and heritage DNA. I did all three of them just thinking maybe I'll get a hit somewhere. I somebody's gotta get a hit. Maybe a sister or brother put themselves in there, an aunt, uncle, anybody. But no, no, none, none, no close matches like that ever came up. And so ancestry was the best one with the you know, centimeters and connected fourth cousins, that type of thing. But I couldn't figure it out because none of those names made any sense to me. Like, these aren't the names that my my dad was supposed to be McCarthy. This isn't right. So then I just kind of waited on it. I just kind of sat on it, and and my mom passed away, and I was like, you know what? I I need to do this. I I need to reach out to somebody that can help me. I I have to figure this out because I want to know. And that's when I found Hillrith. I don't know how really how to say it.

SPEAKER_01 9:50

Yeah, Pirith, Hope, and Healing.

SPEAKER_00 9:52

Yeah, Pirith, Hope, and Healing. Yeah, I found that website and I put my name in and asked asked for help. And Ashley helped me put the pieces together. She found his name, which is not McCarthy, it was McI. My sister, she found my sister, my brother, and my dad's Facebook pages. She gave me all the links to that, and then she gave me my dad's address. So what I did was I formulated a letter, typed it up, and I sent it. He was in California, he was all the way in California. So here I'm looking for someone in Pennsylvania. This man's in California, not Pennsylvania. So that was a shock as well. And he'd been there since the 80s.

SPEAKER_01 10:38

So for a long time.

SPEAKER_00 10:41

Yes.

SPEAKER_01 10:42

Yes. Quick question on you typed up a letter and you emailed it?

SPEAKER_00 10:48

I actually mailed it.

SPEAKER_01 10:50

Okay.

SPEAKER_00 10:50

Mailed it. I mailed the letter. Yeah. Did you get help uh with how to write that? I did. Ashley did give me some pointers, but I did, you know, I I took some of the pointers from her, but I did write my own letter.

unknown 11:04

Okay.

SPEAKER_01 11:04

Yeah. Because sometimes that step I can only speak for myself. I was in a hurry. I got the information and I wanted to reach out, and I reached out on Facebook Messenger to some what turned out to be step siblings. But I never even thought to stop and say, okay, what's the proper way to do this? I don't know that there is a proper way to do it. I don't know. Yeah. You want to be respectful, but yet hello, I'm here. I'm here, I'm here. You know, so that's why I was curious if you formulated that that initial or because I know there's lots of resources now where people have like generic letters to outlook.

SPEAKER_00 11:52

Well, Ashley did. She did have some pointers, but and I did say, like, I'm not here to disrupt your life. I just really what I want to know is medical history. I have children, and I want to know because my daughter is special needs. Is like, does that run in the family? Because none of that runs in the family. And then just to know my I I've been having some cancer scares. So, you know, I've had skin cancer, they keep finding polyps in my colon, you know. I have to go more than most people have to go for colonoscopies because I have issues. We'll get to that in a minute when I tell you why this is important. But so yeah, I sent all these, you know, things to him, like, you know, I'm not here to disrupt you, I just want to know this. If you don't want a relationship with me, fine, but can you just tell me this? The medical history. Tell me about, you know, if you don't want to speak to me, okay, I get it. But then I waited a week and I heard nothing. And I'm like, okay, the next next step was to reach out to the siblings. So I went with Mel. I'm gonna say her name. Yeah, because whatever. I'm saying her name. I went with Mel and I she's okay. So let's back up a little bit. So when Ashley told me all this, it was like, come to find out, she's the older sister. Like, oh, wait a minute. Okay, let's look at his age. Oh my gosh, he's older than my mom thought. Oh my gosh, wait a minute. He had a daughter that's older than me. Okay, so I reached out to Nell and I I said, you know, I'm not here to disrupt you know that full thing. I'm not here to disrupt your life. I just want to know my medical history. I'm just want I I just need to know that this really is my dad. And I'm really sorry that this is happening and it's you know, this it is what it is, but I didn't say that. It was it was nicer than that. She reached out to me right away. I mean, with so usually in Facebook, when you're not friends with people, yes, sometimes it doesn't go to them, it just goes in this other mailbox and it just sits there and nobody sees it. But for some reason, maybe Netta was helping me out, and they were like, here you go, we're gonna make this connection for you. And boom, she saw it. It was read. Like I sent it, and I'm like, Oh my gosh, Sean, my husband, she's read it. And I'm like running through the house, like, oh my gosh, she's read it, she's read it, oh my gosh, and I'm like, you know, freaking out, and she responded, and she's like, I'm gonna call you. What is your phone number? And I'm like, Wow, okay. So she called me that day, and she's like, I talked with my mom, and you're right, dad was up in Binghamton, New York during that time frame. She confirmed it, she he was there. And I'm like, wow.

SPEAKER_01 14:47

Were they married at the time?

SPEAKER_00 14:49

Yes. Oh, yep, and that I found this out on the phone call that he was married. What happened was, you know, he got her pregnant. Again, they're a Catholic family, they have to be married. That's how the the parents both were like, because her mom was Italian too. How about that? Dark hair, dark skin. He had some type. Mm-hmm. Yep. So she, yep, they were married. Had a two-year-old back home while he's doing his thing with my mother. Yeah. And I kind of like when I hear this, I'm like, maybe it's a good thing I found him after my mom died because I think she would have been pissed. Yeah. She would have been mad, mad, mad. She would have. I know she would have. I don't think I definitely feel that she did not know, obviously, because I feel like he was hiding who he was by not giving her the real name.

SPEAKER_01 15:46

So so for clarification, so the name your mom gave you, James McCarthy, you now know is the name he actually gave her. So he gave her intentionally.

SPEAKER_00 15:58

Okay, so I'm not quite sure because he has not responded to that. Because she had my sister has asked him about that, and he at first was claiming, no, I was never at that bar, no, I never hung out there, no, I never, I don't know who you're talking about. Like, that's what he kept saying. But she was like, No, we're gonna pursue this because you know, she's grandma's, her grandmother's relatives are popping up on her DNA. So, what we did is a week later we met in Wilkesbury, Pennsylvania, and did a a sibling paternity test, and it came back that we are indeed siblings.

SPEAKER_01 16:39

Okay. Does she live in Pennsylvania? She does. Your sister, your new sister.

SPEAKER_00 16:43

Yep, she stayed there. She's not moved her, like I said, her he's moved to California, but she stayed there with her mom. So he obviously divorced her mom, maybe after she a couple years later, after that. And yeah, her relationship with him is not great. So then he went to California, got remarried, had another son in the 80s, James. That's my James, my brother. And now here's another little funny tid. So maybe five or so years ago, maybe longer, I'm not really sure. Another one popped up came to their home or something like that, and said, Hi, I'm your son, Sean. So from another woman. So that was like another like blow to the whole, you know, but that was before my before I popped up. But I'm older than the Sean one. He happened after James. So he's the youngest.

SPEAKER_01 17:44

Sean is the known youngest.

SPEAKER_00 17:46

Yep.

unknown 17:48

Okay.

SPEAKER_00 17:49

Crazy. So the the the wife of my dad is not very happy that I have popped up. She's not happy at all. She's pretty angry, and I don't know.

SPEAKER_01 18:01

Yeah, he even though that she wasn't married to him. Right. Right.

SPEAKER_00 18:05

Exactly. I like why? Why are you mad at something that happened before he even met you? Like, that's weird.

SPEAKER_01 18:11

But am I correct that Sean he was married to her when Sean was conceived? Correct. So he's probably causing her to realize he has a pattern.

SPEAKER_00 18:28

Yeah, and that's what I'm thinking. Is it a pattern? Are there more of us? Right. Because my husband, there's six of them, six moms, six of them. So yeah, they they've all found each other. Oh that's another one you can have on your husband.

SPEAKER_01 18:47

So so you okay. I I I have questions, but I don't want to jump ahead yet. Yeah. So you by what you just said, you haven't talked to him.

SPEAKER_00 19:00

No, he will not. He has sent me a Christmas card. So my sister and I were getting along really great. We were meeting. We I was going down there meeting her family. Her family came up and met me. We had a weekend together where she came and spent the weekend in Binghamton, and we we had a great night on the town. I mean, we met several times and had a great time. And then Christmas of 2024, Dad sent me a Christmas card with some a little bit of money, not a lot. And I was like, Oh my gosh, he sent me a card. He sent me money, like, wow. Acknowledging you, yeah. Yeah. I was like, oh my gosh, is this this is it? You know, he's saying hi. Yeah, but here I am. Welcome. So then I said, I said, no, he sent me this card. Like, can you believe it? And she's like, That's wow, you know, and then I'm like, but I don't know how to get a hold of him. I don't have his phone number. He won't friend me on Facebook. I guess I'll just send him a card and say thank you. And she's like, if you want me to say you know, that you got it and thank you, I'll do it. And I'm like, Oh, great, that'd be awesome. Thanks.

SPEAKER_02 20:11

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 20:12

And then within like an hour or two, it was, I don't want to be in the middle of this anymore. I'm done. And then she wouldn't talk to me. I would, you know, text her, she wouldn't talk to me. I would send her a happy birthday February months later. She said, Thanks. And then that was it. She won't talk to me. She won't tell me what happened. She won't tell me why. Yeah. So fast forward, I'm going to Disneyland in next week. And I told James, hey James, I'm coming over there. Would you like to meet my family and myself? And he's like, sure. And I'm like, well, do you think dad would want to meet me? And he's like, I don't know. And I'm like, okay, well, you and I are fine. That's great. If you want to meet me, great. Within maybe three days after that, my sister called me and she was not happy. She was like, I want to clear the air with you and tell you why I'm not talking to you. You know, that what happened between us put a strain on my relationship with my father. And I'm like, what happened? Like we were having a great relationship. What do you mean? What happened? I never asked you to tell him thank you for the card. That's his answer to everything is to throw money at things, is what she told me. So I don't know. I it the conversation was weird. She was like, now you've got them, so don't worry about me. Bye, have a great life. So I I don't know. There's obviously a weird relationship, a strange relationship between her and her father. Maybe she got a little jealous because she's been the only girl all this time, only daughter, and then I showed up. I don't know, 'cause I even told her on the phone call, I was like, I was getting to know you. I was we were building a relationship, the two of us, which could have been separate from him. If it but then she's like, No, you're trying to use me to get to dad, and now you're gonna use James to get to dad. Well, apologies. I don't know what else to do. And if he would just tell me, go away, fine, but he hasn't said anything. And then the card really confused me. Right.

SPEAKER_01 22:35

Well, and you had mentioned that she didn't have a great relationship with the city. I don't think so.

SPEAKER_00 22:41

Yeah, from what I can tell. And that's what she did say, actually, on the call is that they've had a strained relationship, which makes sense because he left her mother and you know and started a new one.

SPEAKER_01 22:53

Well, and I think you know, my heart dropped for you when when you shared the story of her out of the blue like that. And and I think as an NPE myself, we want to get as much information we are as as you, you know, we didn't have a dad growing up, and so you are as as as a lot of NPEs, we want to get to know, we want to be acknowledged, we want, you know, there and all of us have different things we want. Some of us want to build a relationship, but we we don't have any idea the dynamics that were in place long before us, and sometimes having a surprise can bring people together, because I that was part of my story, is it brought some step siblings together, and it was this big excitement around the new my husband jokes, the new puppy dog, you know, the new puppy, and they were all excited, and then eventually the true relationships came out, and you could see the fractures, and um and so that excitement from Mel uh to have you, and maybe she was like you mentioned, maybe she was being selfish and wanted to keep you to herself and build that relationship based on the two of you, yeah. And uh since you didn't know your dad, yeah, both of your dads, that like we can have this to ourselves, kind of a thing. Yeah, yeah. And and and to just shut you out like that's just heartbreaking.

SPEAKER_00 24:42

I mean, I it really was, yeah, yeah. And then I like I said to her, I'm I was I was happy about our relationship. It could have been separate from him if you wanted. We we never had to talk about him. You could have just told me that.

unknown 24:56

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 24:56

When you're the one who said, I will tell him thank you for you. I didn't ask you to do that, but you offered.

unknown 25:04

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 25:05

Yeah. So yeah, it would it it I had a dad, I had a stepdad, but not until I was like, you know, 11, 11 years old is when my stepdad came to my life. But it it's just not the same. It really isn't, you know, like you grow up seeing your friends with their parents, and it's you know, daddy's the girl. It it's just it's not the same. It and then especially when you don't have a great relationship with your mom. So you grow up with this, you know. So like my husband and I had a little bit of difficulty, and I went to a therapist and I laid it all on the line of here's my life, why I'm like this. And she's like, Oh, well, you know what? Here, read this book. You you have a toxic parent. And reading the book about this toxic parent really just, yeah, that's my mom. She guilt trips me, you know. She's it wasn't abusive, but she would instead of being like happy and about things that I would accomplish, she'd always find something to cut me down, you know? Like something good would happen, and she'd be like, Oh, but you did you could have done it this way, or you should have done it that way. Like, can you just ever be happy for me? Like ever, you know, and and like yeah, she definitely was a toxic parent. Were you the only child? No, I had I had a brother. My brother came when I was 12.

unknown 26:30

Okay.

SPEAKER_00 26:30

So, like to see that relationship was like, I love my brother. I did, I do, I did. I because I was like kind of a helper, you know, I kind of took care of him because she was working and my dad was working, so stepdad. But it was just to see their relationship compared to what I I'm not saying I had a bad life. I didn't. I had my grandparents were awesome, my aunts and uncles were awesome, are still awesome. It's just you see that you see that relationship with his son. Let's let's take him fishing, let's take him bowling. But did Amy have any of that? Right. No, she didn't. And I love my brother, I do, but yeah, you little turd.

unknown 27:12

Yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_01 27:13

I do know, I do know. My youngest sister's 10 years younger than me, so I can relate. And yeah, her dad was my stepdad for a few years and actually adopted me at one point, but yeah, so so speaking of, so and you you kind of shared a little bit about what your relationship was like with your mother as a child, but uh and and she's recently passed, and I'm so sorry for that. But how was the relationship once you were an adult until she passed? Like how was your dynamic with the two of you?

SPEAKER_00 27:51

So, you know, uh a few more things came to light as I got older after I graduated high school. Me and my grandpa went for lunch one day, and I'm not even sure how the topic got started. Probably me asking about my dad again, because that seemed to be all I was really focused on from high school on till I found him. Like I just couldn't stop thinking about it or talking about it. So my grandpa shared with me that the first year of my or first month of my life, I was in Catholic charities. It's it was like, you know, where you would go up for adoption if your parent didn't come back and get you. So it was kind of like on a hold basically whether she was gonna come get me or not, but they wouldn't adopt me out until she definitely made that decision. So it was kind of like a holding pattern. So my I was like, really, grandpa? I had no idea. Like, thanks for the shock of my life. My mom didn't want me. Great. That explains why I don't have that, you know, connection. Like, you know, that kissy huggy, lovey dovey. Some moms are like that. But no, I never, my mom never really hugged me, kissed me. Like, if we ever did that, it was like because someone died. And we're like, uh hug, you know. So that was a big shock to to hear about that. And then when I told her that grandpa told me that, she was so mad. She was like, You were never supposed to know that. You were never supposed to know that. And I was like, okay, well, I know it now. And then, so when you have to get your real ID, you have to get your birth certificate, right? So, oh, actually, it was when I went to get a passport for work. I had to get my birth certificate. Well, the lady in the records was like, Oh, I'm sorry, you have to go to Albany to get this amended because it says baby girl. You didn't even have a name on your birth certificate because I had gone, you know, to the Catholic charities home. And like even the address says all information goes to Catholic charities on the birth certificate. So I had to get that amended. So that brought up another thing. And I'm like, so I've got my birth certificate. What do you think would have happened if I got this and saw this and found out I was baby girl and not Amy, you know?

SPEAKER_01 30:10

So you and so based on that then, that I uh initially I thought she brought you home, she and then brought you to Catholic home.

SPEAKER_00 30:19

No, she never brought me home. Never brought you home, yeah. Nope. Okay. So I never had, you know, like when you first have your baby, you do that skin to skin, and you do that, you know, you're connecting with them. So no, I went right to the sisters, to the nuns.

SPEAKER_01 30:35

Well, and and you uh being a part of any of these DNA groups, there's a lot of adoptees. I've learned a lot about exactly that, that initial breaking away from our maternal person, our maternal bonds. And there's a lot to be said with that connection in that first month. Yeah. And both directions, honestly. You know, yeah, you describe how your mom was not affectionate and touchy-feely, and her losing that month bond speaks a lot to yeah, to see her with my brother was you know it hurt a little bit.

SPEAKER_00 31:25

It still does. It's funny. It's like even though she's gone, it still sticks with me. Yeah.

unknown 31:32

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 31:34

Who you are? Yeah, and it made me like, I'm not gonna be like that with my kids, definitely not.

SPEAKER_01 31:41

Yeah. So wow, okay. Yeah, and like you said, what did she say? Had your grandpa not told you and you found out that way, did she then say, Yeah, you're right, I'm glad you found out or the way you did, or did anything?

SPEAKER_00 31:56

Well, she was like, Well, it wasn't a surprise, so good thing you knew already. I'm like, Yeah, good thing I did, mom. Thanks. Uh yeah. But anytime, like, so I had to get my passport, that was years ago, and then when I pulled it out to get the real ID, like a couple of years ago, it just every time I look at it, like, ugh, yeah, baby girl, and then they put the like a line through it, and then they put my name above it, like, oh, that's just terrible.

SPEAKER_01 32:24

That's how they fixed it.

SPEAKER_00 32:26

Yeah, that's how they fix it. They put a line through baby girl and then my name, Amy, above it. Yep.

unknown 32:33

Wow.

SPEAKER_00 32:34

Yeah, so that was, you know, and it still hurts. It hurts. It hurts. Absolutely. But like I said, I did have a good life. I my family is awesome. They still are awesome. My aunts I think that's what my mom always said. Like, whenever I would try to do something to to discipline you, someone would swoop in and say, Oh no, no, you can't, you know. So that's that was her excuse as to why she wasn't the one to discipline me ever. That someone was always there to like, no, you can't do this to Amy, you know, like they would grab me, like my aunts would protect me or something. And so, I mean, yeah, she may be right about that, but all I know is it still doesn't it didn't feel good to have to go with her and try to navigate how do I act with this situation? It's almost like if you were a foster child and plucked out of a home and plopped into another home. That's kind of I guess how I would describe it. Yeah. Like, who is this lady? Who is this man?

SPEAKER_01 33:45

It sounds like she was emotionally, at least emotionally distant. Oh, yeah. And you got that from your grandparents and aunts and uncles, it sounds like. Um, and then yeah, to be plucked out of that.

SPEAKER_00 34:00

A different school, different, like I lived in a suburban area, and now I'm out in the country where there's houses are like down the road, and you have to take an hour bus ride where I used to walk across the street to the school. So it was just like culture shock. Everything was just, ah, what is going on here?

SPEAKER_01 34:20

Well, and at that age, you know, and I I can the the first thing that comes to my mind is the first time I found out my dad wasn't my dad, my mom's first ex-husband wasn't my dad, as I was 10 or 11. And so I as soon as you said that time where you plucked out, there's so much happening to kids at that age, and uh turning your world upside down physically, like your location and your school and friends and and and the household, and yeah, it's it's a pivotal point in a in a any child's life. And and I I I always and I said it earlier that there's different points different times in our lives that are pivotal in our who we become. And that for you was another pivotal point in your life.

SPEAKER_00 35:19

And I think what bothered me so much after she died is I don't really remember her telling me that she was proud of me. She never like said it, you know. Like, like I said, everything I have done or went to college later in my life. I I bought a house for cash when we left one north we left North Carolina and moved back home because her family started to get ill. I sold my house and bought a house here for cash. And I thought she would be so happy. I moved back home, I'm here, but no, she's like, Why did you buy that house? That's not a good house. Like, are you kidding, lady? It's just uh it's just how she was, and it's sad. It's very sad, it's very sad. And that I think what it bothers me though is like, okay, so she acted that way, she was that way, and look, my dad, he doesn't want me either, so it's like, uh could I get a break?

SPEAKER_01 36:23

What's wrong with me? Right. What it turns into as that little kid, yep, and even as an adult, our inner child is still looking for that acceptance. And so to have your dad and now your new half-paternal sister, it's a constant. I don't know if it's the technical, I'm not a therapist, yeah, that constant feeling of being abandoned and not good enough. Yes, not wanted. Yep. I just gave myself the goosebumps relating to all of that because I the exact exact same way for for me. And and I I'm sure there's studies out there and books on it, but it's interesting to me how many of I'm also I'm the oldest daughter born in 72, and that it it when I hear other people like you talking about your mom, and it almost is as as if she was jealous of the relationship you had with her parents. Yes. And buying this house with cash and you going back to and graduating college and all of those things. So our mothers can't say what we need them to say, which is I'm proud of you, you're doing a great job, you know, I'm envious of where you're at in your life. I wish I could have, you know, any of those things they can't because they I believe there is a lot of jealousy between mothers and daughters. Yeah. Oldest daughters, youngest daughters, you know, whatever it might be, because my mom is the same, same, she's not happy for any one of us girls, for anything in our lives, and she's very vocal about it, too. And I that's the only thing I can think of is is just also as a mother, I cannot imagine not being I want my kids, I've always wanted my kids to do better than me. I want you to be successful, yes. And so to not celebrate that for your children, sons or daughters, I I I can't understand it. I mean, I I just don't. But that's what it sounds like is that she was jealous of everything.

SPEAKER_00 38:37

I think so. Yeah, definitely, because her relationship with her mom was uh outstrained for sure, because she was the oldest daughter, so my grandma put a lot of pressure on her. Being that there was nine kids, she needed help, so less it. And I think she resented that a lot.

SPEAKER_01 38:57

Yeah, and I don't blame her. That's not fair. No child should be burdened with that, but that doesn't mean she should she should want better for her child, children. Yeah, yeah. Wow. Okay, so you have the reason I had asked if you've not had contact or any communication with your father, because I'm really curious to know his side of the story. Me too. Me too. Although he told your sister, your new half-sister, that he never was back at that bar, but you don't know, you know, did he give her a false name? Did she or did she know it and gave you a false name? I know, I know all these answers that you are still looking for and your mom is gone.

SPEAKER_00 39:49

Yep, so I can't confirm that with her. Like, hey mom, he's saying, No, I never went there. But is he just was he saying that just because he didn't want Mel to feel I don't know.

SPEAKER_01 40:01

Right.

SPEAKER_00 40:02

But I'm excited because I am going next week to California.

SPEAKER_01 40:10

So and you're meeting James James, my brother, yeah. And he was raised by your biological father, okay.

SPEAKER_00 40:19

By my biological biological father and mother, his mother, so the one who's not happy with me.

SPEAKER_01 40:25

Right, because they're still married. And does he have a good relationship with his dad?

SPEAKER_00 40:30

I don't really know. I'm I don't know. I I haven't really talked to him that deep like that. And really, I don't want it to be awkward when I go meet him. I just really want to be like, hey, how you doing? And so good to meet you, and you know, let's connect.

SPEAKER_02 40:49

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 40:50

Are you a nerd like me? Do you like Star Wars and Marvel and all that?

SPEAKER_01 40:54

So yeah. Well, I think you know, as the best way I can describe as I I tell people in in my you know, my current age, it is so hard to make friends at this age. And now here you are, here I am, here all of us NPEs are trying our best to build relationships with perfect strangers who we're biologically related to, and trying to not make it weird, you know, like you said, and so it's so hard to navigate, and we all have our own personalities and our own quirks and our own. But I would imagine you are just grasping for any relationship you can because he's this connection, even if it's not your father, right, having him any i as you were trying actively doing with Mel before whatever happened, happened. That and so I think there's so much pressure to want it so bad, but not to be come across too much and yet be yourself and be authentic, and yeah, it's right so hard to navigate.

SPEAKER_00 42:17

Yes. So I mean, what would be awesome is if my dad decided to show up, but I really don't think he's gonna. I don't, and I'm not I'm not hoping he, you know, I'm like, oh, you know. You're not holding your breath. Holding my breath, yes. I'm just I'm just going there to meet my brother and his wife.

SPEAKER_01 42:37

Well, and I'm proud of him for doing it, regardless, right? He doesn't well, and I would imagine his mother, who's married to your biological father, yes. I I mean I guess I can't know. If she's not happy about it, I would guess she's probably not happy that maybe she doesn't know that he's gonna meet you, but yeah, I don't I think he would tell her.

SPEAKER_00 43:04

I we'll see. I mean, I'm not I don't want to press it. Like if you if the dad doesn't show up, um hey, how are you doing? I'm not gonna bring him up. I I'm not going to deal with it. Good for you. I want to, but I'm not going to.

SPEAKER_01 43:19

Yeah, this way you can enjoy the moment, you can enjoy the time you have and build it with just the two of you.

SPEAKER_00 43:26

Yes. And that's what I'm gonna do this this time around, because obviously it didn't work well with Mel, but I don't know. Maybe she'll come around eventually. I don't know. Yeah, yeah, yeah. I I've I've sent my dad, you know, since the whole not speaking to her, I've sent him a father's day card, then I sent him a birthday card. So I'm still I'm gonna keep doing that.

SPEAKER_01 43:46

You're keeping you're keeping that door open and I'm here. You can't forget about me. So the surprise half brother, Sean.

SPEAKER_00 43:57

Yeah, I don't know any much about him. Other than what Mel told me is that like I'm trying to remember the her story was that he showed up on their doorstep and was like, Hi, I'm your son. And that just rocked the whole world there. But I I think James speaks with him. Mel does not speak with him. James does speak to him. And I haven't reached out to him.

SPEAKER_01 44:27

And so he hasn't done a DNA test?

SPEAKER_00 44:30

No, because if he did, he would have popped up on my yeah. I think I think the mother knew who and where my dad was. Yeah. Because there he's from over there. He's in California.

SPEAKER_01 44:43

So oh, okay. So it was after he moved there.

SPEAKER_00 44:46

Yes. Yes. Yeah, after my brother James.

SPEAKER_01 44:50

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 44:51

Very interesting. Mm-hmm. And that which made makes me like, hmm, are there others out there? Exactly.

SPEAKER_01 44:58

Well, right. He's he's got a pattern, and we established he has a type. Um, and if he traveled for work, pleasure, whatever it might be, and you know, I'm sure it happens still, but back in the 70s, 80s, it was a very different, you know, expectation for men to use protection kind of a thing. And so I think it's probably yeah, I say that about my dad too. There's probably more of me out there, but I don't know. My dad was single, uh, my mom was single, and so, but I every time you get that email, you have a new deal. I always immediately go look. I take a deep breath and and then it's like second cousin twice removed, whatever it might be. And I'm like, okay, nope, nope, nope.

SPEAKER_00 45:52

Yeah. Um here because like I said, I'm in three different places just because I wanted to cover some bases.

SPEAKER_01 45:58

You want to be found if there's somebody out there, yeah. Yeah, yeah, definitely. Wow. Okay. So was there anything? So your your mother passed away recently, and was there any closure that she was able to help give you before she passed, or any conversations that helped? Anything?

SPEAKER_00 46:24

Unfortunately, no, because the last conversations with her were all guilt trips, like and that's what I'm I left on a guilt trip with her. So, and that's what she always did to me. It was either, you know, a guilt trip, guilting me about something. Yeah, so it's like still with me. Like the last conversation we had, his my husband's mother was very ill, and that was one of the reasons why we definitely had to get back from New York, North Carolina, back to New York. We had to be here in case something happened. So I had Thanksgiving at my home, my first Thanksgiving back home. I wanted everybody to come to my house. She refused. She was not gonna come to my house for Thanksgiving if my in-laws were there and my in-laws' family and all that. She wanted just me and my family at her house with her, my brother and sister-in-law and my nephew. And she said, When do I get my Thanksgiving? And then, like a month later, she was dead. So it was like a shock. She she had a heart attack. They found her outside shoveling. So it was a shock.

unknown 47:35

Wow.

SPEAKER_00 47:35

So that was the last, pretty much the last conversations we had were about when do I get I I can drop dead tomorrow. You know, because it was all kind of like Jeanette. We were like, this is gonna be her last Thanksgiving, probably. And and then Jeanette did die the year after my mom. So yeah. I'm sorry. Yeah, some of the that that's why we were coming home because his mom was very ill and we needed to be here. So I think my mom was jealous about that, you know. Like you you didn't come home for me, you came home for her, you know, that type of thing. So yeah. Yeah. No, she there was no closure at all. You know, because like my focus was getting home and being here before people started going and jeepers. I didn't even get a year back home before my mom died.

SPEAKER_01 48:29

Unexpectedly. Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 48:30

Yeah. Yep.

unknown 48:32

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 48:33

So it was all about, you know, I thought when you came home you were gonna spend more time with me. Well, work was really busy. I work from home and there was a lot going on at the time, a huge project, and I just couldn't, you know. So she would just say all these things like, I thought it was gonna be different. I want my Thanksgiving, I'm gonna drop dead. So, like that, all that plays in my head constantly. It's terrible. It's the ghost of her, she doesn't go away. Yeah, I mean, I do I did love my mother, absolutely, totally. Yeah, but you know, she that's just how she was, and I would never do that to my son or my daughter ever.

SPEAKER_01 49:14

Well, I mean, I think, and I've mentioned it a few times in my in a couple of different uh episodes, is the best book I ever read was the adult children of emotionally immature mothers or immature parents. I can't remember.

SPEAKER_00 49:31

I'll have to look that up because that sounds very similar to the toxic parrot one that I have.

SPEAKER_01 49:35

Do and and it's it was that realization for me, and my mother's still alive, and I started therapy because I didn't want to feel guilty when she dies. Yes, and my mom's still kicking, and it's five years later. And it took me a long, long, long time in therapy to even start talking about that because a lot came up, right? And in realizing again, I also love my mother, and I dread the day that she passes. But with that said, I also have to protect myself, right? And that's where I'm at with my my mother, and it's limited because I can love her from afar, and now that I see who she is and how miserable she is, not because of me, because of her. Right. I can brush things off my shoulder easier than I used to ever because I used to carry it. It was my fault I did something wrong, and so I think that, and then the other thing I thought about was, and it always sounds cheesy, but it makes such a big difference for me. Is have you ever sat down and wrote your mom a letter now?

SPEAKER_00 50:52

Oh, yeah, to try and get that off of your well, I think this whole journey that I went on with this was to move past the guilt that she always tried to do for me and you know, my father, like get get all of this resolved within me. And that's what this journey is all about is to to actually start healing from that. And I just want to share this one quote with you. Strange as it may seem, many people are still controlled by their parents after their deaths. The ghosts that haunt them may not be real in a supernatural sense, but they're very real in a psychological one. A parent's demands, expectations, and guilt trips can linger long after that parent has died. So that's from that book, Toxic Parents, Overcoming Their Hurtful Legacy and Reclaiming Your Life from Susan Forward. Yeah, that that book has been so helpful for me. But that quote there has always, you know, stuck with me. But yeah, this journey has been about healing me from my my inner child, really. You know, it's it's cheesy to say that, but it's true. Like absolutely that little person is still in there and still hurting. And this journey and writing about it and talking about it has is what's helping you feel good, good for you.

SPEAKER_01 52:15

And I I agree. I think the the that inner child work for me, I call it my mini-me. It it I think until you recognize that inner child, it's constantly trying, it's screaming, it's it's looking for help, and and until you actually identify it and work on it, it's gonna be a constant. And so, yeah, I agree. Yeah. And I think that's very well said, and I'll I'll reference that book in in the show notes. When and that kind of goes along with my next question for you is what have you done to make sure you're taking care of yourself through all of this?

SPEAKER_00 52:56

So I know you mentioned the book, but what else therapy? I like after my mom had died, I went right to a therapist, and she has been very helpful. I I don't think I could have made it out without her. The grief was so painful, and then the anger, you know, because I went through all those grief, anger, sad, mad, you know, it was just oh, it was I was all over the place. So yeah, therapist. Therapy has helped. And then just being with family and talking to my aunt Phyllis, uh, she has just been amazing. My my mom had three other sisters, but my aunt Phyllis just I don't know, she's helped me through everything. She's almost like my second mom, honestly.

SPEAKER_01 53:54

Yep. And I I think that that speaks volumes to having a maternal aunt who knew your mom, was raised the same way as your mom. Yep. And her acknowledging or validating and or any of those things, I think, has gotta be a huge piece too.

SPEAKER_00 54:16

It is because she completely understands. She understands everything. Yes.

SPEAKER_01 54:23

Yeah, that it wasn't you, it was yeah. That's that's I'm great. I'm so grateful that you have m especially maternal family that you are able to talk to. And absolutely uh kind of a side question, because it's interesting that both both you and your husband did not know your biological father growing up, and he has had the opposite totally opposite happy ending. Yes. How has he been with you emotionally while you're navigating the polar opposite of his experience?

SPEAKER_00 55:00

He's very supportive, you know. He listens to me. He's he's not a big talker, he's not he doesn't share his emotions much, but he sits there and he listens to me. So just having him to listen to what I'm saying is extremely helpful.

SPEAKER_01 55:17

Yeah. And he understands it from multiple aspects.

SPEAKER_00 55:21

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 55:22

Yeah. Which is not not all not all uh significant others can understand the way he does.

SPEAKER_00 55:30

His father didn't really reach out or talk to him, it was the stepmom. We call her grandma Millie. She has just been amazing. And and his sister, his aunt Alice, so his dad's sister has just been amazing as well. So it wasn't really the dad that talked to Sean. And that definitely hurts him that he didn't really but Millie has just embraced you know, my children and my daughter, especially, because my daughter has special needs. She's a little she's autistic, so she has been a great grandma Millie.

SPEAKER_01 56:09

That's awesome. Yeah. That's awesome. What advice would you give others who are struggling with their mothers, the this whole situation? Anything, any advice you would give?

SPEAKER_00 56:29

I mean, just be yourself. Just be your authentic self and keep keep going. You know, don't let them sway you not to keep pushing for the answers. You keep going. If you want the answers and you think that's gonna help you, then you should do it. But know that you may find some things that could, you know, you may not get what you want. That's the thing, because you may have expectations. Oh, I'm gonna find my family and it's gonna be wonderful. Well, that's not always the case. I guess just be aware of that, that it may not go well.

SPEAKER_01 57:19

Yeah, be open to whatever that looks like.

SPEAKER_00 57:24

Exactly.

SPEAKER_01 57:25

And be prepared.

SPEAKER_00 57:26

And yes, definitely be prepared. I mean, I'm I definitely was prepared. Like I said, I told all of them when I reached out, I am not expecting anything from you. I just want you to know I'm here. And if you could just tell me anything about you, that'd be great.

SPEAKER_01 57:44

At the minimum, and that's what I think. It just that that makes me angry and sad is that for us adoptees and late discovery adoptees and donor-conceived and and NPEs, at the minimum, we deserve half of our medical history. Like we need at minimum the things that we need to worry about as we age, as we have children and things.

SPEAKER_00 58:10

I I alluded to a little bit ago that I've had a lot of cancer scares. Come to find out his mother died at 52 of colon cancer. So I have to go many times more than people normally do to have colonoscopy because they're always finding something in there. So just knowing that, okay, well, we definitely need to do this.

SPEAKER_01 58:34

Yeah, yeah, because it literally can cost us our lives if we're losing.

SPEAKER_00 58:39

So that piece of information was very important for me to know.

SPEAKER_01 58:43

Yeah. And should have known all along.

SPEAKER_00 58:45

Yeah. Because you would have started oh, yeah, I had stomach issues back in my 20s. Started back in my 20s with my my stomach issues. So it would have been nice to know that.

SPEAKER_01 58:57

Yeah, definitely.

SPEAKER_00 58:59

Yep.

SPEAKER_01 59:00

Wow. What are you doing differently for your family or other relationships that you wish you had from your mother?

SPEAKER_00 59:12

I don't think I'm doing anything differently, to be honest with you. I'm I am happy with the relationships I have cultivated in my life. My best friend I've been friends with since I was three years old. I'm still friends with her. So my aunts, my cousins, I have many cousins on my mother's side. I'm very happy with that part of my family. If my other family does not want anything to do with me, uh it's not gonna hurt me. I'm gonna be okay. I will be alright.

SPEAKER_01 59:46

And I think that's a great way to look at it. It's gonna hurt, but you will be okay.

SPEAKER_00 59:54

Yep. It does hurt, but well, I think the thing is when someone brings you into their life and then their their children's lives, and then takes it away, that is ouch. You know, and I even met her mom. We went to dinner all of us together, and then now you're gone. Okay.

SPEAKER_01 1:00:21

Yeah, and you would I would like to think as an adult woman, you can take the time that you need, but you are strong enough to be able to communicate and to share what happened and what it triggered for me, and and it realize it's not about you, it's about her, like whatever it is. And but but we we don't know other people in their relationships that they've had before us, and yeah. I think so.

SPEAKER_00 1:00:50

Maybe in the future, if something were to pop up, I'd be open to it. I would be open and open my arms to it.

SPEAKER_01 1:00:59

So yeah, good for you. And that speaks to who you are. Yeah. Is there anything else that you would like to share or want others to know?

SPEAKER_00 1:01:11

I think, like I said, just if you want answers and you're not getting them, keep pushing and keep looking. Because you will you will eventually find it. You definitely will.

SPEAKER_01 1:01:24

Yeah, one way or the other, you'll find it. It's great advice. And I know you've got the Disney trip, you're going to California next week to meet your new paternal half-brother, and I cannot wait to hear how that goes. And you know, I I hope, I hope since you're there, you get the chance to meet your your dad. But I think going into it realistically, I think it's a great place to be for you. So then it it lessens the hurt, and the value of of getting to know James is gonna be priceless.

SPEAKER_00 1:02:04

I agree. I'm I'm excited to get to know James for sure.

SPEAKER_01 1:02:08

Well, good. And if anyone would like to connect with you based on your story or how they can relate to your your story, how can they best reach you?

SPEAKER_00 1:02:21

I have a threads and I have substack. And both of them are the handle Amy, Joe, and C. So that's how you can find me.

SPEAKER_01 1:02:32

Okay. Perfect. I will put that link in the show notes as well. Well, Amy, I want to end this by saying something that hit me with our conversation. Is I want you to know that I am very very proud of you. And I know this isn't easy, and I know I know you were ready to do this, and I'm proud of you for doing it because it's you're you're very vulnerable, and you deserve it. You deserve to share your story, and I'm proud of you.

SPEAKER_00 1:03:09

Thank you so much, Stacey. I appreciate you letting me tell my story.

SPEAKER_01 1:03:13

Absolutely. Absolutely. I'm honored that you did, and I can't wait to share it with the world, and they can hear your story and and what an amazing, amazing person you are. Thank you so much. Thank you.